December 05, 2019, 10:27:32 PM

Author Topic: Season 2014/15  (Read 179400 times)

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1065 on: February 26, 2015, 09:22:16 PM »
Absolutely gutted. Too many injuries and a genuine lack of quality up front cost us progression. I really think Sturridge need to take a good look at himself. Allen my MOTM - again. Brilliant displays by Can, Skrtel, Mignolet and to some extent Moreno. Why oh why did he take off Balotelli. Why oh why must he persist with his bullish treatement?

Reckon City will have a stroll on Sunday. Need to pick ourselves up quickly after Sunday's game or this season will be over before it even began again.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1066 on: February 26, 2015, 09:40:12 PM »
Why oh why did he take off Balotelli.
At least he can take a peno. Must have been the card. One of
the reasons I always advise against starting him.

Thought we were supposed to have a squad for the CL this season.
Turns out we don't even have one for the EL.

Back now to that very singular of aims must qualify for the CL again. :(

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1067 on: February 26, 2015, 10:18:21 PM »
Poor tactical approach, consistently, in big away games. Whenever Rodgers sends teams out to play backs to the wall football, especially in knockout competitions, it bites him in the bottom. He's a great coach and a very good manager, but he doesn't stick to his ideas in these games. Gerard Houllier once said, correctly, that a manager should live and die by his ideas. Rafa does this. Mourinho, for all the stick he gets, doesn't change his gameplan from one competition to the other. He doesn't care what anyone says, he stays true to his ideals, whether anyone likes it or not. Rodgers' whole approach is about having the ball, aggressively pressing to get it back, and attacking in waves. We do none of those things when faced with a big away game. We sit off, let the other team have the ball, and hope for the best. It doesn't work for us, more often than not. If Rodgers has ANY lesson he should be looking to learn, it's that from now on, he should just play every game all guns blazing. If we lose playing that way, at least we've given it a good go. Losing the way we did today, though, is just bad coaching. Play to your strengths, not your weaknesses.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1068 on: February 26, 2015, 10:18:41 PM »
I knew from the second half at Anfield, a shambolic performance if ever there was one, that we would struggle tonight. 

We hammered this club eight-nil at Anfield, when we last had a top manager at the helm.

Against essentially a championship side, or even third tier side, we should be wiping the floor with such a team.  If you look back across this past ten years, they always get knocked out of the CL at the group stage, and apart from one season where they made the final 16, they always get knocked out of the Europa league at the final 32 stage (i.e. tonight).

So for me, with Rodgers poor skills in Europe, it didn't matter who we faced, we were always gonna struggle in Europe.  And this was no case of bad luck on our part, no, Besiktas deserved to go through.

All this trophy was, was a peanut nickle and dime trophy, which was always going to be beyond us, and was something to distract our efforts in the premiership (efforts for top 3).

I am fully behind us to finish in the top 3 or 4.

And then we need a new manager in the summer.    A certain Rafa Benitez would have walked through this two-legged tie with ease.  We need that type of tactical acumen at the club again.....not David Brent and Alan Pascoe.

Come home Rafa.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1069 on: February 26, 2015, 10:34:55 PM »
Why oh why did he take off Balotelli. Why oh why must he persist with his bullish treatement?

Sorry Martin, I do not mean to offend your thoughts and ideas, but I was off the opposite opinion.

I was aghast to see Balotelli start the game.

Away in Europe, backs against the wall, the last person that I would want to see beside me in the trenches, would be Senor Balotelli.

But, I agree with Edward, that Rodgers is such a tactically poor manager, as to be unable to play containing, backs-to-the-wall, type football.  So maybe my point about Mario is redundant anyway.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1070 on: February 26, 2015, 10:58:31 PM »
Come home Rafa.
;D Do you ever stop?

As things stand Rafa has already bagged some silverware this season, is
3rd in Serie A (eyeing 2nd) and walzed through this round of the Europa league
by winning the first leg 4-0. Essentially he is making the best out of what he has
without sacrificing competitiveness.

My point would be he manages a smaller club as a top club.

We seem to approach a season the way Everton do or other smaller mid-table clubs.
They enter competitions but never with the intent of winning them. Reaching a semi-final
of a domestic cup or the last 16 of the EL and bowing out with honour and surviving to do
a variation of the same thing the following season is their success. I also feel Rodgers is
damaging our reputation in Europe with the campaigns he has mounted there.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1071 on: February 26, 2015, 11:04:14 PM »
Against essentially a championship side, or even third tier side, we should be wiping the floor with such a team.  If you look back across this past ten years, they always get knocked out of the CL at the group stage, and apart from one season where they made the final 16, they always get knocked out of the Europa league at the final 32 stage (i.e. tonight).

That's such BS, mate. Expression of good old fashioned British arrogance I'd say. Very disrespectful to a well organised and hard working besiktas side. Here goes:

City - 90 % sure to go out in the last 16 in the CL
Arsenal - 90 % sure to go out in the last 16 in the CL.
Liverpool - knocked out in the group stages in arguably the easiest group. Eliminated from the EL in the round of last 32.
Tottenham - knocked out in the round of last 32 big time.

English club football has lost its position as the best league in Europe. I would say the PL at this point together with Serie A is the third best league behind superior La Liga and Bundesliga.

Or to put it shortly - something's rotten in the state of PL.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1072 on: February 26, 2015, 11:12:21 PM »
what a load of twaddle Martin.

City were playing Barcelona FFS   :D

Arsenal were playing Monaco  FFS    ;D

Well funded sides.

Tell me again what Besiktas budget was compared to our own?

Now, I agree with you about the quality of football, in England and indeed in modern times.  I think it is second rate, and very poor overall.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1073 on: February 26, 2015, 11:17:41 PM »
;D Do you ever stop?

As things stand Rafa has already bagged some silverware this season, is
3rd in Serie A (eyeing 2nd) and walzed through this round of the Europa league
by winning the first leg 4-0. Essentially he is making the best out of what he has
without sacrificing competitiveness.

My point would be he manages a smaller club as a top club.

We seem to approach a season the way Everton do or other smaller mid-table clubs.
They enter competitions but never with the intent of winning them. Reaching a semi-final
of a domestic cup or the last 16 of the EL and bowing out with honour and surviving to do
a variation of the same thing the following season is their success. I also feel Rodgers is
damaging our reputation in Europe with the campaigns he has mounted there.

I dislike the notion that as Liverpool we have the right to be successful (that is plastic fan territory, which I despise so much in Man Utd fans).

But on the otherhand, when we have a massive budget, compared to the teams you refer to, or abroad, like Besiktas, then I think we have a right to ask questions of our owners and boss.

We are second tier, finance wise.  We are not in the same financial ball park as City, Chelsea, Barca or Real.

Thus we need a manager who hits above his weight.   And sadly Rodgers is not that guy.

But we know one man who is.  And that is why we desperately need to give the guy in the Wirral, a call.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1074 on: February 26, 2015, 11:27:47 PM »
I dislike the notion that as Liverpool we have the right to be successful
We have the right to be hungry for success. Success is winning trophies, btw, not
toiling away every year to qualify as a travelling billboard around Europe for failure to compete;D

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1075 on: February 27, 2015, 10:54:57 AM »
What did Rodgers say to them at half time?

0-0 at half time, and 0-1 down in the tie, Besiktas were only ever going to up the intensity in everything they did.

Yet we come out and stroll around without a care in the world. Dire.

Balotelli can think himself unlucky to come off ahead of Sturridge and Sterling. The latter absolutely stunk the place out last night.

What must Ibe think? He gets taken off whilst Sterling gets an extended period of prancing around.

Ibe was our most effective player until he got taken off. He worked the entire flank. Defensively, for an attacker, he seems to understand his limitations at tackling, so keeps it simple, puts his opponent under constant pressure and forces mistakes, however, when there is a clear sight of the ball he does take the opportunity to get his foot in a take the ball away from his opponent.

I like the way he varies his attacking also. Sometimes going down the outside when it's more congested infield, but then picking his moments to come infield and open up the game in front of him. His decision making in those situations 'inside or outside' is very good for such a young, inexperienced player.
Unfortunately last night when he came inside they was simply no movement in front of him for him to pick out.

We needed an injection of freshness and energy, even before the goal arrived, and the first substitution should have been made 10 minutes into the 2nd half. It was screaming for it.

European football looks like a cause of embarrassment rather than something to be looked forward to at the moment.

As soon as the second half started it looked as though Besiktas were the team looking to contain and preserve a lead. Their work rate, and pressing of us high up the pitch was excellent, and in response, the movement and urgency of movement off the ball by our players, giving 'a quickly closed down team mate options to move the ball quickly', were utterly pathetic.

When faced with an opposing team with a high work rate you have to up your own work rate accordingly with players moving quicker and crisper, giving the man with the ball options quickly, so the ball is moved around from player to player more quickly and crisply, thus negating the increased work rate of the opponents, and actually turning that work rate against them by meaning they will tire more quickly if you can still leave them chasing shadows.

I just hope the manager learns al the requisite lessons from this season's embarrassing European fling. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1076 on: February 27, 2015, 11:07:30 AM »
Poor tactical approach, consistently, in big away games. Whenever Rodgers sends teams out to play backs to the wall football, especially in knockout competitions, it bites him in the bottom. He's a great coach and a very good manager, but he doesn't stick to his ideas in these games. Gerard Houllier once said, correctly, that a manager should live and die by his ideas. Rafa does this. Mourinho, for all the stick he gets, doesn't change his gameplan from one competition to the other. He doesn't care what anyone says, he stays true to his ideals, whether anyone likes it or not. Rodgers' whole approach is about having the ball, aggressively pressing to get it back, and attacking in waves. We do none of those things when faced with a big away game. We sit off, let the other team have the ball, and hope for the best. It doesn't work for us, more often than not. If Rodgers has ANY lesson he should be looking to learn, it's that from now on, he should just play every game all guns blazing. If we lose playing that way, at least we've given it a good go. Losing the way we did today, though, is just bad coaching. Play to your strengths, not your weaknesses.

The part I've emboldened is the bit I understand least about Rodger's approach. If we're going to 'sit and soak' and look to hit the opponent on the counter, which is a perfectly acceptable and understandable tactic away against certain 'strength' opponents, then we need to press and close down much more intensely than we do.
Standing off and inviting them through like we did last night makes zero sense.
We don't have to press them on the edge of their area, but once they cross the half way line, leaving an entire half of the field for us to break into, we need to be all over them.

Our defence isn't strong enough as a unit to shut the 'oppo' out so we need to keep them "at arm's length", then pick up the ball when mistakes are forced by constant pressuring. We actually forced Besiktas into a lot of misplaced passes by doing that in the first third of the game last night.   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1077 on: February 27, 2015, 12:06:17 PM »
Leaving Coutinho and Henderson at home showed the lack of intent to win last night. Bizarely then taking off ibe and balotelli really didnt help the cause.  Methinks Rodgers didnt want an extra 7 games on his calendar as he knows he could quite easily be sacked if he lost in the final of the europa league and came 5th or 6th in the premiership.
One major thing for me though...WTF was Lovren taking the crucial penalty???
With Arsenal and Spurs now effectively out of Europe, then that can only add competition to the race for top four.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1078 on: February 27, 2015, 12:52:29 PM »
Coutinho needed a much deserved rest and Henderson had a slight injury but that is beside the point.


The thing is, Brendan only has one lesson to learn - trust himself.

He's a bloody good coach, whose teams play bloody good football. He should back that against all but the very, very best sides in Europe and cup games. Against good - but no great - sides like Beşiktaş, Ludogrets, Basel, etc., he should just play the aggressive pressure and possession game we have so much success with in the league. That's really the only lesson he needs to learn. Either he believes in his ideas, or he doesn't. He shouldn't be flipping between two schools of thought from competition to competition

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1079 on: February 27, 2015, 03:38:23 PM »
Coutinho needed a much deserved rest and Henderson had a slight injury but that is beside the point.


The thing is, Brendan only has one lesson to learn - trust himself.

He's a bloody good coach, whose teams play bloody good football. He should back that against all but the very, very best sides in Europe and cup games. Against good - but no great - sides like Beşiktaş, Ludogrets, Basel, etc., he should just play the aggressive pressure and possession game we have so much success with in the league. That's really the only lesson he needs to learn. Either he believes in his ideas, or he doesn't. He shouldn't be flipping between two schools of thought from competition to competition

Maybe he's wary of Taggart's experience in his first 10 years or so of European football, and how when he tried to play the same way in Europe as they'd done in regularly steamrolling their way to the league, they were unsuccessful. They're well documented.

Pressing and possession are probably the two most key requirements when playing European football. We were incredibly poor at both last night and plumbed a new depth of dire in the second half.

Sakho's a real miss, especially if it means Lovren's in the team. It's hard to understand how he's become such a liability so quickly.
Maybe he's unnerved by playing beside Skrtel, who's never far from a serious mistake.

If Rodgers has settled on a back three, then in the Summer he needs one, preferably two, defenders and not neccessarily actual centre halves, that can join Sakho. Skrtel may do for another season as the natural centre half central defender of the three, but it would be nice to upgrade on him.

Has Ilori been sighted on planted Earth recently?
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.