September 21, 2019, 10:34:53 AM

Author Topic: Season 2014/15  (Read 140633 times)

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1425 on: April 09, 2015, 09:03:34 AM »
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Just sayin IF City beat them, and then Chelsea, and the bitters do us a service AND Arsenal get a result WHILE we reproduce something similar to the form we showed between december and mid-March THEN 4th is possible. City's got arguably the easiest remaining fixture list.  No chance we'll catch them even if we win our last 7 games.

Lot of Ifs there Martin. :-) Mathematically 4th is still possible but it would need teams above us to have some shock results. City beating Utd on current form is just such an example.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1426 on: April 09, 2015, 01:09:42 PM »
I want Brendan to succeed.  I may not have wanted him at Anfield, but I want every boss to succeed.

Now, tell me again about your agenda regarding Rafa.

Or what about your thoughts on Hodgson?

You see, from where I stand, it looks like people like you and ASI, make it up as you go along.

I have no agenda with Rafa. I admire the man and admire him as a manager. I will always wish him the best and hope he succeeds where ever he is - unless its in england.

I stated numerous times that in 2010 I wanted a root and branch clear out of the club including owners and manager. I didn't prefer H&G to Rafa like others. I wanted them both gone in equal measure. However he only managed one title challenge in his time here - same as Brendan - and didn't have to compete with two oil clubs and a competent Spurs team. He had one oil club and Man Utd as competition and managed one title challenge - one less than Arsenal during his time as manager.

So I wanted Rafa gone because I felt the club needed some freshness inputted into the club at all levels.

I hate Hodgson. I hated the appointment but gave him a chance as manager. This lasted until only a few weeks when he then opened his bum cheeks for Fergie to slid in. That combined with the footballing methods he had us play was a complete disaster.

I don't make it up as I go along. You see I am in conjunction with the Liverpool way which gives its managers plenty of time and opportunity. Unless said manager does serious damage like speaking to the Sun or opening their bum cheeks for fergie.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1427 on: April 09, 2015, 05:11:09 PM »
I stated numerous times that in 2010 I wanted a root and branch clear out of the club including owners and manager.

I wanted both H&G and Rafa gone in equal measure.

Benitez only managed one title challenge in his time here - same as Brendan

So I wanted Rafa gone because I felt the club needed some freshness inputted into the club at all levels.

I don't make it up as I go along. You see I am in conjunction with the Liverpool way which gives its managers plenty of time and opportunity.

but why would you want Rafa gone, given the success he brought us on a relatively limited budget, and the crazy working environment he had (with the toxic twins stiffling his every move)?

And you say that Rafa had only one title challenge, the same as Rodgers.

BUT, Rodgers has a good working environment to operate in - plus, he has had some 215 million pounds to spend on new talent.

Rafa had neither of those luxuries - and yet achieved far far more. 

Often Rafa had to sell, before he could recruit.

I do not see any objectivity at all, in your stance.   And even beyond trophies, my own eyes told me, that we were playing superbly balanced football.  I said at the time, we were playing the best football I had seen at the club, since Bob Paisley.

But you and Martin demanded he be sacked, and then subsequently threw your hat behind recruiting Brendan Rodgers.  The same Rodgers that has won nothing, apart from a Championship Play-Off Final against Reading.

And speaking of balance Edward.  I felt Rafa brought superb balance to our football.  Balance was always the Liverpool way *.   As was pass and move.

Rodgers you feel - from previous posts in recent days - has to start kicking the ball long.  And you also feel that he has to forget defence, and attack far more.   That is Keeganesque football, that throws balance out the window.  That has never been the Liverpool way.

* Note, I am no fan of the *Liverpool Way* notion.   The Liverpool Way always felt to me, like something that originated from the David Moores era....and was a byword for failure, excuse and a naive decency.


 

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1428 on: April 09, 2015, 11:35:20 PM »
Rafa had neither of those luxuries - and yet achieved far far more. 

Often Rafa had to sell, before he could recruit.
The worrisome thing about Rodgers reign is that I don't see any
of the players he has bought increasing in value. We're stuck with
the bulk of them for the foreseeable.

It's also makes no sense that he wants to qualify for CL but then
we're laughed out of Europe. Then he says that it makes it harder
to attract players when there's no CL. If I'm a European player
watching our performance in Europe this season, why would I want
to join LFC? The splurge of cash last Summer was supposed to give
us a squad capable of meeting the demands of PL and European football.
We saw how that turned out.

He never shuts up about Sterling but it seems we're just a youth academy
for the top 4 clubs now. Makes sense, isn't that what he did at Chelsea. You
can't fool the children of the revolution  ;D

I feel that we're back to square one and the only beneficiaries of our Suarez-inspired
form last season have been Chelsea and United. The basics of running a football club
have been neglected and we live in a deluded world, the pinnacle of which would be
what Arsene Wenger (in his twilight not prime years) can achieve with no fuss over at Arsenal.

Some people on here are still talking about top 4. I think they must live in cloud cuckoo
land. Spurs is who we should be thinking about now instead of resorting to mathematical
gymnastics and rewriting the laws of probability. Spurs (it's amusing that they never mention
Southampton on our shoulder when running through making up a 7 point gap).

As for arguing the facts, let's have you then?  :D

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1429 on: April 10, 2015, 09:07:59 AM »
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The worrisome thing about Rodgers reign is that I don't see any
of the players he has bought increasing in value. We're stuck with
the bulk of them for the foreseeable.

Couthino is probably worth £30M, nearly 4 times what we paid.

Sterling bought for less than £1M. If sold will return around £35M, possibly more. A 40 times return.

Mingolet won't be sold but we could certainly realise what we paid.

I'm happy to be 'stuck with them'.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1430 on: April 10, 2015, 11:29:50 AM »
The worrisome thing about Rodgers reign is that I don't see any
of the players he has bought increasing in value. We're stuck with
the bulk of them for the foreseeable.

It's also makes no sense that he wants to qualify for CL but then
we're laughed out of Europe. Then he says that it makes it harder
to attract players when there's no CL. If I'm a European player
watching our performance in Europe this season, why would I want
to join LFC? The splurge of cash last Summer was supposed to give
us a squad capable of meeting the demands of PL and European football.
We saw how that turned out.

He never shuts up about Sterling but it seems we're just a youth academy
for the top 4 clubs now. Makes sense, isn't that what he did at Chelsea. You
can't fool the children of the revolution  ;D

I feel that we're back to square one and the only beneficiaries of our Suarez-inspired
form last season have been Chelsea and United. The basics of running a football club
have been neglected and we live in a deluded world

regardless of who is in charge, obviously, we all want to see the club succeed.

And he did turn the club around, and it went on a great run since December.

But, for me, it was the nature of our defeats these past ten days (against United and Arsenal) that is cause for grave concern.  Up against a decent tactician, his system is shown up for how poor it is.  Against Van Gaal, it was embarrassing (right from the off).   And similar at Highbury.  A top manager has different systems.  A top manager can spot issues early, and change things quickly.  Rodgers can't.

Suarez is world class.  And we had an artificial season last year, because we had the Uruguayan in our team.

If we look at the transfer data, across Rodgers three seasons, it is not good.

Across the three years:
Brendan Rodgers bought 24 players for £212 million
Brendan Rodgers sold 28 players for £129 million
Net spend: 83 million quid

Without Suarez's sale (for 75 million), we would only have brought in 54 million pounds, and had a net spend of 158 million pounds. 

Ignoring Suarez, Rodgers sold 27 players for 54 million.  An average sale price of exactly 2 million pounds per player.  Peanuts.

The clear conclusion is that Rodgers has had a helluva lot of money to spend.  Unlike Rafa Benitez.   And yet, the Ulsterman is struggling, big time, to compete.

Yes, Sterling (despite his young years) will bring in some money.  But remember, it was Rafa Benitez who signed Sterling.

Countinho will be worth money, if he hangs around.  But if we judge the owners on their actions to date, they will not give the lad a top contract, so he will be sold too. 

Our owners seem to want to hire managers and players on the cheap (e.g. discounting Rodgers, our top central midfielder, who must be 26 or so years of age, is only being offered 4 million per year in this new contract) 

There seems to be good reason why they want to hire young people, and I am starting to have grave doubts that their actions are not based on footballing reasons.

Are they happy for us to be a feeder club.   Are we being turned into a Newcastle or a Spurs - where the owners are not prepared to compete with the big teams, but instead sign folk on cheap wages.

Our transfer policy of hiring young people, has resulted in us have an age profile that is way too young.  The average age of a premiership winning team is some 28 or 29 years of age.  Liverpool have an average age of between 23 and 24 years of age.  Way too young and inexperienced.

If  I am being nice,  the conclusion is that the owners are naive and arrogantly think they know best, and can win trophies on the cheap.

If I am being cynical, the conclusion is that they know full well what they are doing.  And are blissfully content to let us be a second tier feeder club, that buys cheap and sells high.  Hey, maybe with an expanded stadium, and good yearly financial accounts, they are fattening us up for market.....maybe to some asian or middle eastern buyer.

Either way, in purely footballing terms (ignoring the expanded stadium), our owners are not doing what is necessary to enable the club to be successful, on the pitch.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1431 on: April 10, 2015, 01:00:46 PM »


Rather than post this in another part of this forum, and no-one see it, I am posting this here.

Richie Benaud WAS the voice of cricket.....the voice of summer.  Desperately sad to see his passing.  Part of life's rich fabric is no more.

Great obituary type article here.


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/10/richie-benaud-crickets-permanent-witness
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1432 on: April 10, 2015, 04:29:53 PM »
And he did turn the club around, and it went on a great run since December.
Dress it up any way you like Dude, the bottom line is we're
a point above Southampton, level on points with Spurs &
7 points off the top 4.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1433 on: April 10, 2015, 06:14:58 PM »
Dress it up any way you like Dude, the bottom line is we're
a point above Southampton, level on points with Spurs &
7 points off the top 4.

since when I have dressed anything up.

we got off to a horrendous start; went on a superb run from December to late March, and then got found out (as usual) against opponents with brains.

as always, I thought sacking Rafa was madness; and the appointment of a lightweight inexperienced kid, equally mad.

but I will be fair, and give praise where it is due.

Rodgers did turn the season around, but ultimately has came up short (again).

I want to see a new manager brought in (during the summer).

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1434 on: April 10, 2015, 10:35:34 PM »
since when I have dressed anything up.

we got off to a horrendous start; went on a superb run from December to late March, and then got found out (as usual) against opponents with brains.

as always, I thought sacking Rafa was madness; and the appointment of a lightweight inexperienced kid, equally mad.

but I will be fair, and give praise where it is due.

Rodgers did turn the season around, but ultimately has came up short (again).

I want to see a new manager brought in (during the summer).
In my opinion too much is being made of this run thing.

Shankly said 2nd is nothing and here we are in 2015 talking about runs?

This most be a new form of success, runs.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1435 on: April 11, 2015, 01:58:31 AM »
In my opinion too much is being made of this run thing.

Shankly said 2nd is nothing and here we are in 2015 talking about runs?

This most be a new form of success, runs.

what are you talking about??

in our era of dominance, in the late 70s and 80s, we won our league titles by going on *runs* - usually after Xmas each season.

Fergie's United were also renouned for their RUNS in the closing months of a season.    It won them titles.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1436 on: April 11, 2015, 02:32:06 AM »
what are you talking about??

in our era of dominance, in the late 70s and 80s, we won our league titles by going on *runs* - usually after Xmas each season.

Fergie's United were also renouned for their RUNS in the closing months of a season.    It won them titles.
I'm not buying that, the LFC fan today wallows in a sort of desperate optimism cloaked in denial.

True measures of footballing progress, CONSISTENCY IN THE LEAGUE and performance in Europe
are ignored and mismanagement (dreadful planning and transfer business) overlooked.

Like a drug addict we stumble from one fix of deluded optimism (A manager dismantled our genius system at home
but if Stevie hadn't been sent off?) to the next (we played well in the 2nd half but lost 4-1). The utter humiliation at
home by Real in the CL is forgotten as the believers recall Moses going up on the mountain to receive the new 'system'
from the Almighty in December. This system will surely get us to the promised land of...CL (where we clearly don't belong).
Much fervour and excitement is generated in the long RUN for the promised land over the Spring months. But, alas,
we'll have to wait for Moses to impart the blessing of the Europa league and wander in the wilderness for another
few years.  :P




Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1437 on: April 11, 2015, 10:56:34 AM »
you've even made Martin depressed.

 :D

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1438 on: April 11, 2015, 11:55:36 AM »
according to today's newspapers, Skrtel has put contract talks on hold until the summer. He only has one year left on his existing contract.

Anyone notice a trend starting to emerge here?
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1439 on: April 11, 2015, 05:26:59 PM »
you've even made Martin more depressed.

 :D
Well I have to provide balance to 224 and ASI's musings  :D

I look at the table and see LFC at the so-called business end of the season,
2 points behind Southampton with a game in hand but much poorer goal difference.

Now, being realistic, one could have expect the departure of Suarez to have an impact
but the statistics above (noting that the bulk of the Suarez fee was re-distributed to
Southampton) are damning.

This has nothing to do with pretty football or runs, it's the cold facts of the table.

The problem for me is simple. The brief for LFC (minus the extra revenue from the refurbished
stadium) is to seek out areas where the top 4 are weak and ruthlessly exploit these.
Frankly, I'm not seeing that.

Basically we're a brittle outfit, be it the calamity of losing 1 player (Suarez) or a system of
play that collapses at precisely the wrong moment of the season.

It's worrying for me, those really important games against United and Arsenal weren't 0-0's
(I'm not even talking about wins), they were comprehensive defeats home and away.
We were brushed aside, swatted like flies.