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Author Topic: Season 2014/15  (Read 129938 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1530 on: April 20, 2015, 10:31:37 PM »
I don't know much about those 3. But if you try an experiment and it doesn't work then it's a bit daft to try the same thing again. Minimum requirement? Someone who has managed a team who have won either World Cup, CL, domestic league or domestic cup in that order.

The first two might cost a fair bit but would act as a magnet for potential buys. if we go for another similar to Brendan then we have to pay a lot in wages to attract them and even then they may not come. Sanchez being the prime example.

LFC does not have the attraction of London or CL football. So we're in the same position as Man City 6 years ago and they had to pay silly money to top players. Under FFP that's no longer an option. It has to be a high profile manager.

Are you able to say why Rafa or Ancelotti wouldn't be considered?

Some good points there, Ray. It's about the impression and the message that we as a club send out. Like you say, the Mancs tried experience but no winning track record in the hope he would develop in a 'winning environment' (though it pains me to say it, it's still the truth) into a trophy winning manager.
It failed, and common sense prevailed.

Whilst the shortlist of who fits the criteria, is/would be available, interested and not mind that we're not in London, is a very short list, it shouldn't stop us aiming in that direction.

With FFP, the longer we stay out of the top four, or only dip in and out occasionally, the more we will be cast adrift of other clubs like Chelsea, both Mancs and Arsenal.

We're playing catch up with the stadium, but whilst we don't need the size of the Mancs' ground, we'd be ahead of City in capacity, and close the chasm that exists at the moment between us and Arsenal, Chelsea, who have the London pricing luxury, and Arsenal have the addition of the increased capacity.

However, as Wenger has shown, whilst the stadium and income from it is in the construction stage(s), we need the know how to get us into and stay in the top four and at least have that revenue. There's no shortcuts or guarantees, but you can maximise or at least increase the possibility in your favour.

The experiment of the transfer committee + manager has failed. Whether Rodgers has a poor eye for a player, or indeed a good eye but a minority position when it came to final selection, we don't know, but what we do know is that the combined inputs of Dalglish, Comolli, Rodgers and the transfer committee, whoever the constituent personnel has been at any time, has seen a lot of money spent with a very poor return in either value or success on the pitch.

Are FSG prepared to appoint someone, who like Van Gaal has done, will go 'toe to toe' with the board, if needs be and show them the errors in their thinking and model, and have either the clout or persuasive powers to get the things through that need to change at the club. Do FSG have the desire to 'be educated' or are egos and misplaced pride getting in the way of us getting ourselves on the right track, and not the 'road to nowhere'.     
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1531 on: April 20, 2015, 10:50:13 PM »
So when I think along those lines I think of Klopp, AVB, De Boer, Rudi Garcia, Laudrup, Howe, Klinsmann, Bielsa.

I don't think of Benitez, Ancelotti, Deschamps, Allegri, O'Neill, Bilic, Simeone, Hiddink.

I'd switch Bielsa and Simeone.

So Marcello Lippi or Giovanni Trapattoni it is then.  ;D
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1532 on: April 20, 2015, 11:47:49 PM »
Personally i think the whole 'transfer committee is separate' is a blind.
When Bodgers wins games it's down to his genius. When they lose, he blames the players.
The same comes down to the transfer committee, sounds like casting blame on others.
All of our recent transfers have been guided by the media and the agents. Both will whore themselves out for the next bright young thing.
Resulting in players who are nowhere near the standard and yet demanding the same wages as Suarez et al.
The whole concept of the young player turning world pro is such a dangerous path. Because let's face it, how many have we seen fail in our time. Even the likes of Walcott, Shaun Wright Phillips etc were promoted as the best thing since sliced bread and none have really come to the fore.
The idea of NOT getting an experienced manager in, means that Liverpool will be forever top ten.
Experienced managers trawl the continent and beyond to get that diamond in the rough...
In the end an experienced manager will save you money, he doesn't need to be a good coach, he doesn't need to mould a player and enhance him...
An experienced manager sees a player who will fit perfectly into a team.
An experienced manager will buy that player and he will not have to be adaptable, or play in multiple positions. That player will play in the position that he is comfortable in. He won't have to hesitate on playing that ball because he knows the other player will be there.
Such is balance. Such is team building.
An experienced manager will pluck a youngster or a 30 year old veteran out of the morass of players and know that he can do that job.
An experienced manager will buy two of each position and if one fails to step up to the mark, he'll be gone in the next transfer mind.
At the end of the day, an experienced manager WILL ATTRACT THE BEST PLAYERS.
At the end of the day, an experienced manger WILL SAVE YOU MONEY.
Why waste countless millions on an untried manager who buys untried players at that level, bought for the sole reason to make up the numbers, but with no thought of how they will fit into the team balance?
Enough now.
This is serious stuff.
Another gamble will fail, we need a sure win. And that can only be achieved with a manager who has taken a team, rebuilt and crafted it in order to win.
Those managers are rare but there are two or three out there, who will fancy the job. Liverpool is one of the biggest names in World football. We don't want a manager who talks us down and acts like he's doing us a favour to take us on. Mourinho and Van Gaal saw that they could build and transform, that they did is a testament to them.
To ignore that type of experienced manager and accept second best, is to do so at our peril.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 11:50:48 PM by barticus »

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1533 on: April 20, 2015, 11:50:34 PM »
Ben Smith of the BBC:

At this stage, I'm told that Liverpool's American owners have no plans to sack Brendan Rodgers.

There is, of course, disappointment at the manner of the defeat at Wembley but also a recognition
that some 12 months ago, Liverpool were within spitting distance of the Premier League title.

Their faith was tested in late November, but having coming through that difficult period, he is still their man.

There is no question that FSG admire Jurgen Klopp, but at this stage have no plans to make a change.

One thing worth remembering - Rodgers' current deal would mean that even if FSG were to lose faith in
their manager, it could cost as much as £10m to sack him. And the same again to hire a replacement.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1534 on: April 21, 2015, 11:21:42 AM »
it will cost ten million quid to sack Rodgers.

so our owners won't be doing that.

and anyway, what's all the hulabaloo about, we are now plodding along nicely at the level they envisage for us.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1535 on: April 21, 2015, 11:24:56 AM »
reports today suggest Klopp wants the Anfield job.

the bookies have cut his odds to 4-1 to take over.

Must say that he is only my third choice.  There are a lot of unknowns with Klopp, and what he would bring to the premiership.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1536 on: April 21, 2015, 01:00:36 PM »
Ben Smith and Tony Barrett are both extremely reliable.

Unless we implode in the next 6 games Brendan will be here next season.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1537 on: April 21, 2015, 02:45:29 PM »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1538 on: April 21, 2015, 03:35:24 PM »
reports today suggest Klopp wants the Anfield job.
It just seems to me that all the indicators point to the wheels
coming off the Rodgers stewardship some time next season.

A sizable number of the fanbase have at least flirted with the idea of him
not being the manager anymore.

This brings huge pressure before a ball has even been kicked next season.

The current crop of players aren't stupid and one wonders about the health
of the dressing room. Particularly if the gaffer looks weak.

Our performance this season, particularly in Europe, is also unlikely to see us
as the primary destination for ambitious players with talent this Summer.

Our perennial rivals Chelsea & United have consolidated their positions, which
makes a season such as last season less likely.

Essentially the issue is now credibility of the man in the dugout. I think the word
they use is lame duck.

So while there could be an argument right at this moment that things are not
sufficiently bad to change the manager, the factors I've mentioned suggest it
will be likely in the not too distant future.

My argument would be better for everyone to nip it in the bud now before that
word so beloved of the media rears it's ugly head "crisis". 10 million is peanuts
compared with the likely damage resulting in the fall out of a mid-season meltdown.

My argument would be that we've learnt a little bit more about winning the PL in
the modern era during the Rodgers tenure. Now it's time to get serious or risk
irrelevance.

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1539 on: April 21, 2015, 03:35:36 PM »


Exactly, dude. Even if it does cost 10 mil to get rid, that's no more than say an Aspas. The last thing we want is him spending another 100 million or so on young promising attacking footballers who flatter to deceive, while ignoring the defence for the 4th year and bringing no balance to the team in general.


Offline Gurdeep

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1540 on: April 21, 2015, 03:48:17 PM »
Ben Smith and Tony Barrett are both extremely reliable.

Unless we implode in the next 6 games Brendan will be here next season.


I don't think I could hack another season of the false messiah!
It's only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realize that there is always a way to solve a problem without using violence.!

Offline barticus

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1541 on: April 21, 2015, 07:23:55 PM »

I don't think I could hack another season of the false messiah!

Agreed. Defensively weak as usual, found out by the big clubs. Maybe FSG are doing a Mike Ashley? Happy in Liverpool's mediocrity, waiting to sell up a fattened calf.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1542 on: April 21, 2015, 08:28:46 PM »
Some good points there, Ray. It's about the impression and the message that we as a club send out. Like you say, the Mancs tried experience but no winning track record in the hope he would develop in a 'winning environment' (though it pains me to say it, it's still the truth) into a trophy winning manager.
It failed, and common sense prevailed.

Well, for a long while it didn't work as LVG's team had accrued the same number of points as Moyes'. They just seemed to click just at the wrong time.

Quote
Whilst the shortlist of who fits the criteria, is/would be available, interested and not mind that we're not in London, is a very short list, it shouldn't stop us aiming in that direction.
What we don't know is if any of the managers suggested might be interested in LFC. I always remember Mourinho saying many years ago that Liverpool interested him. I'm sure there are others. It's still a huge club regarding fan base and history.

Quote
With FFP, the longer we stay out of the top four, or only dip in and out occasionally, the more we will be cast adrift of other clubs like Chelsea, both Mancs and Arsenal.

Agreed although LVG is only at Man U for another 2 seasons. City are in turmoil with an ageing squad and Arsene is getting older by the day.

Quote
We're playing catch up with the stadium, but whilst we don't need the size of the Mancs' ground, we'd be ahead of City in capacity, and close the chasm that exists at the moment between us and Arsenal, Chelsea, who have the London pricing luxury, and Arsenal have the addition of the increased capacity.

Yes, the problem is we can't charge London prices as Merseyside couldn't take it. But players still want premium wages. The only way to improve income is with sponsorship and the club do seem pretty good at that.

Quote
However, as Wenger has shown, whilst the stadium and income from it is in the construction stage(s), we need the know how to get us into and stay in the top four and at least have that revenue. There's no shortcuts or guarantees, but you can maximise or at least increase the possibility in your favour.

There's no doubt FSG are wise business men. Far more about them than David Moores (bless him) or H&G or even Arab owners. I don't believe they want to do everything on the cheap. The new stand is being built and any naming rights won't affect the ground or the Kop. That would have been the easy option but they had too much respect for the club and fans.

Quote
The experiment of the transfer committee + manager has failed. Whether Rodgers has a poor eye for a player, or indeed a good eye but a minority position when it came to final selection, we don't know, but what we do know is that the combined inputs of Dalglish, Comolli, Rodgers and the transfer committee, whoever the constituent personnel has been at any time, has seen a lot of money spent with a very poor return in either value or success on the pitch.

All we know for sure is the committee of 3 including Rogers will be given a good grilling at season's end and something will have to change. They're not fools but neither do they employ knee-jerk reactions. The end of season is the right time to review the season. Rogers has already said he is looking for experienced players, not more youth or those near the end of their careers. They might also recruit different scouts. That committee is under a lot of scrutiny.

Quote
Are FSG prepared to appoint someone, who like Van Gaal has done, will go 'toe to toe' with the board, if needs be and show them the errors in their thinking and model, and have either the clout or persuasive powers to get the things through that need to change at the club. Do FSG have the desire to 'be educated' or are egos and misplaced pride getting in the way of us getting ourselves on the right track, and not the 'road to nowhere'.     

Only they will know that. It seems doubtful Rogers will be sacked in the summer. All we can hope for is we get some decent players in and Brendan learns from his mistakes and doesn't make the same ones again.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1543 on: April 21, 2015, 10:35:15 PM »
There's no doubt FSG are wise business men.
I'm sure Randy Lerner is a wise business man. What we require at
the club are a team of wise football men below the owners that run
the club.

All we know for sure is the committee of 3 including Rogers will be given a good grilling at season's end and something will have to change. They're not fools but neither do they employ knee-jerk reactions. The end of season is the right time to review the season. Rogers has already said he is looking for experienced players, not more youth or those near the end of their careers. They might also recruit different scouts. That committee is under a lot of scrutiny.
The buck stops with the manager. The season IS over. Can you provide evidence that
the owners aren't fools in the sphere of football? We've had Rodgers for 3 years and
basically gone around in a circle - calling time on his reign would not be a knee-jerk
reaction. Rodgers is just singing from a new hymn sheet now. Again, the buck stops with
the manager.

All we can hope for is we get some decent players in and Brendan learns from his mistakes and
doesn't make the same ones again.
That seems to be a very weak mandate to hand the footballing leader of a multi-million pound
enterprise who is extremely generously rewarded in terms of his pay packet. Learns from his
mistakes?? Maybe Tim Sherwood could give him some tips.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2014/15
« Reply #1544 on: April 21, 2015, 10:51:41 PM »
I'm sure Randy Lerner is a wise business man. What we require at
the club are a team of wise football men below the owners that run
the club.

Can you name those men? I don't know the names of those who are responsible for those decisions. But I agree they need to be intelligent and football-wise.

Quote
The buck stops with the manager. The season IS over.

The buck stops with the manager for team performances. How many poor performances are tolerated are dependent on several factors such as player availability. It's not Rogers fault Sturridge has been injured for so long. He did transform our defensive resilience. Does he not deserve credit for that? I see Porto conceded 6 tonight. Does that thrashing mean their manager should be sacked?

And as long as it's mathematically possible for us to get 4th the season is not over.

Quote
Can you provide evidence that the owners aren't fools in the sphere of football? We've had Rodgers for 3 years and basically gone around in a circle - calling time on his reign would not be a knee-jerk
reaction. Rodgers is just singing from a new hymn sheet now. Again, the buck stops with
the manager.
Owners don't need to be football experts. The Glazers know nothing about football. Neither does Abramovic or Sheikh watsisname with City. It's their money and their call. If you can't affect a decision just live with it.

Quote
That seems to be a very weak mandate to hand the footballing leader of a multi-million pound
enterprise who is extremely generously rewarded in terms of his pay packet. Learns from his
mistakes?? Maybe Tim Sherwood could give him some tips.

Sherwood couldn't have been that clever because he was sacked by Spurs. Let's see how the next few years pan out for him. Let's remember FSG know far more about Rogers than anyone here. Without the full facts we're guessing on many things.
Cheers,
Ray