Season 2014/15

[Ed]

I disagree A.S.I., football management is about
decision-making (thousands of 'em).

You buy a striker Sturridge (a big decision) with a history
of injuries, guess what? He's going to be injured.

But that decision exists within a series of others:

You buy Fabio Borini, why?
You buy Mario Balotelli, why?
You buy Rickie Lambert? why?
You buy Origi, where is he?

The key problems this season are not the product of bad luck,
they are the culmination of poor decision-making.

Maybe the manager doesn't make the decisions? Then he's
not the manager.

For the record Sherwood was sacked by chairman Daniel Levy on 13
May 2014 despite a 59% win ratio that is second to none.

[Gurdeep]

ASI, just a quick point about the fact it's not Rodgers fault Sturridge has been injured most of the season.  While I agree with your statement, what I cannot understand (even now) is why the club did not have a back up plan for Suarez leaving?  After Suarez made clear that he was interested in leaving for Arsenal a few seasons ago, should that not of have had the alarm bells ringing within Anfield.  Surely a well run club would of had a clear mandate with respect to identifying other targets to replace him should he leave at some point in the future?  And when he did leave (no surprise) wtf did we do?  Nothing.  If Sanchez was the only target identified to replace Suarez then OMFG!  Rodgers stated 2 weeks prior to the 14/15 season starting that LFC would never sign Balotelli......Nuff Said on that one 

To cut a long story short, the above example clearly illustrates serious failings within OUR club.  From Ian Ayre, to Brenda right down to the frickin tea lady!

[Ageing Stick Insect]

You buy a striker Sturridge (a big decision) with a history
of injuries, guess what? He's going to be injured.

He wasn't last season. He scored 21 league goals. Didn't hear you complaining then that he's injury prone.

But that decision exists within a series of others:

You buy Fabio Borini, why?
You buy Mario Balotelli, why?
You buy Rickie Lambert? why?
You buy Origi, where is he?

You could also ask why Utd loaned Falcao and paid him £250K/week to do bugger all. Because at the time it was thought those players would perform better than they did. Origi is on loan and joins next season.

The key problems this season are not the product of bad luck,
they are the culmination of poor decision-making.

I assume you are also including the players in that statement. Poor decision making by them on the pitch is not the managers fault.

Maybe the manager doesn't make the decisions? Then he's not the manager.

Unless you know how the structure works in a club you can't give an educated reply. Just a guess.

For the record Sherwood was sacked by chairman Daniel Levy on 13
May 2014 despite a 59% win ratio that is second to none.

Then his sacking is even more odd. Must have been something else which may surface at Villa.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

ASI, just a quick point about the fact it's not Rodgers fault Sturridge has been injured most of the season.  While I agree with your statement, what I cannot understand (even now) is why the club did not have a back up plan for Suarez leaving?  After Suarez made clear that he was interested in leaving for Arsenal a few seasons ago, should that not of have had the alarm bells ringing within Anfield.  Surely a well run club would of had a clear mandate with respect to identifying other targets to replace him should he leave at some point in the future?  And when he did leave (no surprise) wtf did we do?  Nothing.  If Sanchez was the only target identified to replace Suarez then OMFG!  Rodgers stated 2 weeks prior to the 14/15 season starting that LFC would never sign Balotelli......Nuff Said on that one 

To cut a long story short, the above example clearly illustrates serious failings within OUR club.  From Ian Ayre, to Brenda right down to the frickin tea lady!

Sanchez was the target I have to assume. We offered more money than Arsenal but his girlfriend wanted to live in London so that was that. Maybe they did go for other targets. We don't know.

Just because we don't sign a target doesn't mean people have failed. If you wanted to go out with a attractive girl but she picked another bloke 'cos he had a flashier car than you does that make you a failure? Same analogy. All you can do is make the club look as attractive as possible but after that it's down to the player and his agent.

[Ed]

He wasn't last season. He scored 21 league goals. Didn't hear you complaining then that he's injury prone.

You could also ask why Utd loaned Falcao and paid him £250K/week to do bugger all. Because at the time it was thought those players would perform better than they did. Origi is on loan and joins next season.

My point is we are where we are, right now, because of a string
of poor decisions.

Like it or not, Man Utd. exist (and have done for years) in a different
footballing stratosphere to us. It's tired old thinking that we are remotely
comparable to them in the modern football age.

I assume you are also including the players in that statement. Poor decision making by them on the pitch is not the managers fault.

But now you're making the point for me. Who decides which players we recruit,
who's on the teamsheet and how they play? Are you suggesting that the players don't
listen to the manager or don't understand what he says to them.

Unless you know how the structure works in a club you can't give an educated reply. Just a guess.

There's a golden rule in football that the manager is responsible for everything
connected to the team. No self-respecting manager works under the kind of
hidden system you're suggesting where the tea lady is making the decisions 
That's why the buck stops with the manager.

What really irks me is when excuses start to be made for a manager who willing signed up
to a brief and then extended his contract. I sincerely doubt that FSG have altered the brief.

[the dude abides]

Exactly, dude. Even if it does cost 10 mil to get rid, that's no more than say an Aspas. The last thing we want is him spending another 100 million or so on young promising attacking footballers who flatter to deceive, while ignoring the defence for the 4th year and bringing no balance to the team in general.

absolutely, Bart.

top managers, those who earn the big bucks and win the trophies, are specialists when it comes to getting the balance right in a team.

for my money, Rafa was the best we have had since Bob Paisley.   His teams were superbly balanced.

If FSG continue with this madness, and/or this type of template for a manager/player - then we can begin to conclude that they are content to see us at this level - a newcastle or spurs type club.

The primary problem, is in their big fat arrogant yankee heads.

[the dude abides]

Essentially the issue is now credibility of the man in the dugout. I think the word
they use is lame duck.

So while there could be an argument right at this moment that things are not
sufficiently bad to change the manager, the factors I've mentioned suggest it
will be likely in the not too distant future.

My argument would be better for everyone to nip it in the bud now before that
word so beloved of the media rears it's ugly head "crisis". 10 million is peanuts
compared with the likely damage resulting in the fall out of a mid-season meltdown.

My argument would be that we've learnt a little bit more about winning the PL in
the modern era during the Rodgers tenure. Now it's time to get serious or risk
irrelevance.

my argument would be that the arrogant FSG experiment has failed.

last year's success was artificial - smoke and mirrors, with the world class Suarez pulling the team to near the top of the mountain.

With the little Uruguayian gone, we see our true level.

FSG will continue to fail, if they keep insisting on pushing their stupid yankee sports franchise ideas on an English football club.

[Ed]

my argument would be that the arrogant FSG experiment has failed.

last year's success was artificial - smoke and mirrors, with the world class Suarez pulling the team to near the top of the mountain.

To be fair Dude they have invested money and the purchase
of Luis Suarez came on their watch. They're also doing work on
the stadium (and increasing ticket prices  ).

So they're not all bad.

Also, if they have a particular model regarding achieving success
and maintaining financial stability, then fair enough.

My reckoning is that they've dipped their toe in and had some
success and some failure. It's not bad given the low point in
the clubs history when they took over.

Look if you were to have LVG as Director of Football attracting the
cream of Europe's young talent to the club and revamping our own
youth set up in the process, then with Rodgers as coach there
is no real problem. Such a set-up is not to everyone's taste, obviously
at LFC we like our patriarchal gaffers. The point is it's a workable scenario,
we have big club, world football experience in place and the coach can
be swapped in and out without sacrificing continuity.

That's not the situation that we have and if you think management of first
team affairs is amateurish (suspect decision-making), can you just imagine
what is happening under Rodgers watch in other areas of the club - as Tes
reminded us he got rid of was it, Segura, Borrell and Mc Parland. I mean
personally, I'd struggle to put any of the people who sit beside him on the
bench in charge of even the youth teams.

If you were to ask me, I'd say phase 1 over lessons learned, time to ditch the
amateurs and get professional in. Otherwise I go along with Tes and see Aston
Villa under Lerner as worrisome spectre in the distance (for us that means
permanently mired below the top 4, with occasional cup runs). A youth team
(managed by a youth team coach) for the top 4 clubs to plunder.

"Come to Liverpool FC to get experience of the PL, before moving on to a real
football club"

[Ageing Stick Insect]

My point is we are where we are, right now, because of a string
of poor decisions.

Making correct decisions is not an exact science. Otherwise you could leave it to a computer. It's human nature. Hopefully future decisions will be more successful.

Like it or not, Man Utd. exist (and have done for years) in a different
footballing stratosphere to us. It's tired old thinking that we are remotely
comparable to them in the modern football age.

They're richer and being in Manchester have wealthier supporters than those in Liverpool. They also had the advantage of the area around the ground being bombed in WW2 so could expand cheaply. And they have good marketing men but they won't always be around. Football is cyclic.

But now you're making the point for me. Who decides which players we recruit,
who's on the teamsheet and how they play? Are you suggesting that the players don't
listen to the manager or don't understand what he says to them.
There's a golden rule in football that the manager is responsible for everything
connected to the team. No self-respecting manager works under the kind of
hidden system you're suggesting where the tea lady is making the decisions 
That's why the buck stops with the manager.

I never said anything about a tea lady so stop spouting tripe.  You know how the recruitment, team selection and formation works so don't ask the bleeding obvious.

What really irks me is when excuses start to be made for a manager who willing signed up
to a brief and then extended his contract. I sincerely doubt that FSG have altered the brief.

I'm not making up excuses for Brendan. If you look back to Sunday I said I want him replaced. That's unlikely to happen in the summer.

None of this is under our control so I really don't see the need to keep discussing it. Most of it is speculation anyway. I'm done with this until such time as something significant happens at the club.

[Ed]

I never said anything about a tea lady so stop spouting tripe.

I'm not making up excuses for Brendan. If you look back to Sunday I said I want him replaced.

I think Gurdeep mentioned the tea lady 

Well at least we're on the same page regarding Brendan in this respect 

We'll have to do battle in the future on the rest of it 

[Tes]

There is, of course, disappointment at the manner of the defeat at Wembley but also a recognition
that some 12 months ago, Liverpool were within spitting distance of the Premier League title.

Their faith was tested in late November, but having coming through that difficult period, he is still their man.

So in November they didn't "recognise that some 12 months ago, Liverpool were within spitting distance of the Premier League title.", however, despite since then surrendering meekly to Besiktas in the UEFA Cup, losing pivotal games for 4th to the Mancs and Arsenal successively (both with poor performances) and a weak willed showing in the FA Cup semi, in what was our last chance of silverware, they "recognise that some 12 months ago, Liverpool were within spitting distance of the Premier League title." 

That seems either rather muddled thinking from the owners or Ben Smith, or knee jerkism, swinging from one extreme to another. I'm not sure which but something doesn't quite ring true or add up.

[Tes]

Our perennial rivals Chelsea & United have consolidated their positions, which
makes a season such as last season less likely.

In fact both have actually progressed from last season's placings, where as we have done what? Regressed? Realism returned?

What hasn't changed is that we failed in last season's two most pivotal games, Chelsea and Palace, and likewise Besiktas (out of Europe altogether), the Mancs, Arsenal (blown our chances of 4th) and the FA Cup semi (last piece of silverware) this season.

Transfer buying (the manager will ultimately pay the price) hasn't improved. The only sign of progress is defensively.

[Tes]

My argument would be better for everyone to nip it in the bud now before that
word so beloved of the media rears it's ugly head "crisis". 10 million is peanuts
compared with the likely damage resulting in the fall out of a mid-season meltdown.

So get Klopp whilst he's available and there's a suggestion he's needed, rather than wait until he actually is most definitely required but he's no longer available.

[Tes]

Owners don't need to be football experts. The Glazers know nothing about football. Neither does Abramovic or Sheikh watsisname with City. It's their money and their call. If you can't affect a decision just live with it.

Compared to their football knowledge they are experts when it comes to baseball, having been fans of the game (like we all have of football) all their lives, and it shows in both sports respectively.

Abramovich is to football what our owners are to baseball. The chances of him having been immersed in football to one degree or other (again like we all have) are much higher for him than for our owners, the Glazers and Sheikh Mansour, simply because the availibility of such an opportunity exists far, far more in his country of origin than for the rest of them. Additionally, he's been almost a permanent fixture at matches since he bought the club, again, unlike the rest of them. The rest may have watched their respective clubs' games on TV, but they're not 'around the game' to any degree compared to Abramovich.

[Tes]

Then his sacking is even more odd. Must have been something else which may surface at Villa.

Two words. Daniel. Levy.