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Author Topic: Brendan Rodgers Sacked  (Read 5884 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2015, 08:46:07 AM »
It is a total rebuilding job - from top to bottom.

Which is why I wish people would look beyond the image of the charismatic, grinning German and look a bit more closely. One successful stint at a big club (Dortmund are one of the bigger clubs in the Bundesliga) that went sour.

Ancelotti, league titles in different countries, CL wins and finals, experience of the PL, including the title in his first season (the double no less in his first season), and most importantly, experience of being at big clubs. He knows how big clubs function, how they need to be set up to help bring success. We hear all the time how good it is to have 'player X' with CL experience or experience of winning the PL, but what about managers? Surely the same applies.
Ancelotti was also a top player. Serie A winner and Italian international, not just some youth player at a third or fourth tier club.

Klopp worries me. Has his bubble already burst? I know he won the Bundesliga twice, and did well in the CL, but Rodgers' 3 seasons are like a micro snap shot of Klopp's, not absolutely literally, but in building something successful and then it all going south and him not being able to arrest the slump.

And if we're trading on images, if appearance is all important, then Ancelotti is the perfect gentleman. Always dignified ala Sir Bobby Robson. Opposition fans may not like that he wins things for their rival, but they respect him. He's no public a-hole like Taggart or Mourinho. The charismatic, slightly eccentric bit could grow tiresome, where Klopp's concerned.

I just hope we act based on substance and not image, on the actual, no the 'appears to be'.
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Offline Edward224

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2015, 11:21:52 AM »
I too would prefer Ancelotti over Klopp however he told FSG he would not relocate his family and would only stay until the Juve, Milan or Italy job became available.

He badly wants to manage Italy and one suspects after the euros it will be available.

Offline barticus

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2015, 11:48:52 AM »
An excellent weekend for the future of Liverpool FC. I was out on feria when i heard that Rodgers had gone and to be honest i don't care if its either Klopp or Ancelotti as both will be better than Rodgers. Both have weaknesses and positives but both will start to players in positions where they are most comfortable.
That hasn't been seen for a long time.
Good stuff.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2015, 12:09:15 PM »
Ancelotti, league titles in different countries, CL wins and finals, experience of the PL, including the title in his first season (the double no less in his first season), and most importantly, experience of being at big clubs. He knows how big clubs function, how they need to be set up to help bring success.

Klopp worries me. Has his bubble already burst? I know he won the Bundesliga twice, and did well in the CL, but Rodgers' 3 seasons are like a micro snap shot of Klopp's, not absolutely literally, but in building something successful and then it all going south and him not being able to arrest the slump.

yes, this is what I always warn about young inexperienced managers, and pretenders - i.e. when it starts going south, they can't arrest the decline......because they can't identify the problems. 

Like Bart, either man will be infinitely better than Rodgers.

There are pros and cons for each guy.  Edward makes the very good point that Ancelotti may not be willing to fully commit to a several-year project.  Whereas Klopp seems fully up for it - with him and his family prepared to move to Liverpool.

OK, let me play devil's advocate.

Looking at Ancelotti's record - it is based around managing clubs at the top of the pile, across the top European leagues. 

In Europe, there is possibly nobody better.   He is one helluva cup manager.  Lots of similarities here with Rafa. 

But despite 16 years managing at Juventus, AC Milan, Chelsea, PSG and Real Madrid, he has won a mere three league titles.   That is at odds with his cup record, and the massive resources he has had to call upon at each of these giant clubs.

Ancelotti is no Alex Ferguson, when it comes to winning league title after league title.

Would Ancelotti finally bring us the title?   I fear that he would struggle (especially at a club in the doldrums, like we are at present).

Managerial Record

Juventus (1999–2001)
    UEFA Intertoto Cup: 1999

Milan (2001–2009)
    UEFA Champions League: 2002–03, 2006–07
    UEFA Super Cup: 2003, 2007
    FIFA Club World Cup: 2007
    Serie A: 2003–04
    Coppa Italia: 2002–03
    Supercoppa Italiana: 2004

Chelsea (2009–2011)
    Premier League: 2009–10
    FA Cup: 2009–10
    FA Community Shield: 2009

Paris Saint-Germain (2011–2013)
    Ligue 1: 2012–13

Real Madrid (2013–2015)
    UEFA Champions League: 2013–14
    UEFA Super Cup: 2014
    FIFA Club World Cup: 2014
    Copa del Rey: 2013–14
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 12:13:44 PM by the dude abides »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2015, 01:15:19 PM »
To balance things up.

My concerns about Klopp centre around

1) I have not seen enough of it, thus I am no expert on Klopp's style of football.  But his Dortmund were a pressing team.  That pressing style, was also Rafa's mode of operation at Valencia.....which he then took to Liverpool when he moved.  He used it that first season or so at Liverpool, but had to change it.  I suspect the premiership is much too physical a league, to be able to have your players playing that energy-sapping pressing style the entire season.   Klopp will be on a learning curve.  His Dortmund style may be of little use in England. 

2) relatively inexperienced, short time at the top, and only worked in Germany, unable to quickly arrest Dortmund's decline last season (pretty much Tes's concerns).
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2015, 01:17:06 PM »
From today's Independent

Jürgen Klopp will become Liverpool’s new manager providing an agreement can be made on how the club conducts its transfer business.

Discussions between Anfield officials and the 48-year-old are at an advanced stage after meetings held yesterday close to Liverpool’s London offices in Bloomsbury. Klopp, who takes much of the credit for Borussia Dortmund’s transformation from Bundesliga relegation fodder to two-time champions, worked closely in Germany with chief executive Hans-Joachim Watzke as well as sporting director Michael Zorc on the issue of recruitment and is understood to be seeking clarity on who would have the final say at Liverpool.

Klopp formed a close bond with Zorc particularly – a former player at Dortmund – and it is possible that he might request someone of a similar stature fills the same role at Liverpool, a job that would bridge the gap between the boardroom and management. Potentially, such a move would render irrelevant the club’s much-criticised transfer committee.

Last week, it was said in the German media that Klopp was being considered by Bayern Munich as a potential replacement for Pep Guardiola should he choose to leave Bavaria next summer. Since then, contract negotiations have begun and although both Manchester clubs would like to appoint him in the future, it now seems he will remain in Germany for at least another 18 months.

Klopp would not be willing to wait for that long and now his thoughts are with Liverpool, a job that attracts him because of the club’s history and the enormity of task – one that will be as testing as when he started out at Dortmund in the summer of 2008.

Stefan Effenberg, the former Germany international and a friend of Klopp’s, said a deal with Liverpool was close. “When you come to a team and everything is 100 per cent it’s not a challenge,” he said. “This would be a challenge for Jürgen Klopp: to build and to create something new.”
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2015, 01:55:00 PM »
Red Bull Leipzig technical director (and former Hoffenheim coach), Ralf Rangnick.
has been speaking of Klopp and his training methods.

Rangnick said: "Any club who can sign Jurgen Klopp can be happy because he is one of the most able and capable head coaches in Europe.

"At Dortmund, he turned the whole club around and played a kind of football that only a few teams played, not simply in Germany but in Europe."

Rangnick also discusses the possibility of changes to Liverpool's training methods under Klopp.
"I know there are many clubs in England who won't have double sessions during the week, but in Germany you won't find a single club without one or two double sessions a week.

"Twice a week is normal. The way he wants to play, you cannot play this attractive, attacking, counter pressing football without the team being physically and mentally ready for that. It works only with intense training.

"Jurgen is the type of coach whose teams look from the perspective of what happens when the other team has the ball. He wants his team to always be ready and prepared to win the ball back.
This is the only way to reach control over a game. That the whole team knows what it has to do when the opposition is in possession of the ball."

"His man-management is also of a high standard. On the one hand he is demanding, but on the other he is communicative; the kind of coach who loves his players and shows the players that he loves them and protects them."
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2015, 03:36:32 PM »
I too would prefer Ancelotti over Klopp however he told FSG he would not relocate his family and would only stay until the Juve, Milan or Italy job became available.

He badly wants to manage Italy and one suspects after the euros it will be available.

The Italy job is something I'd wondered about Ancelotti. He's never been seriously linked, though at this stage of his career, maybe the lack of day to day would suit him.

I can also understand wanting to end his career back in Italy, and both Juve and Milan will have appeal but for different reasons.

The family bit confuses me. I know nothing of his 'personal life'. Did he have kids later on, because at his age you'd think that the bairns had left home, so moving around, his 'family' would be just him and Mrs Carlo, if there is one.

So long term who will prove to be the better manager, Klopp or De Boer? Klopp's only three years older than de Boer. If not Ancelotti, then whoever is the answer to that question is the person I hope we appoint.

Even if it's joint managers, Carra and Stevie G, no damned transfer committees, no rules about age etc. Let the damned manager manage how he sees fit and then if it's a failure the sacking is justified. If he's just to be the public face of an accumulation of rules and committees, then everyone involved has to go. It's called accountability. It's what we used to have and what we need back again.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2015, 04:21:06 PM »
Klopp or De Boer, and I have no real preference, because whilst Klopp has two titles in the stronger Bundesliga, De Boer has the experience of knowing what it takes as a player as well as a coach/manager and knows what the insides of a successful club looks like, having been at Ajax and Barca, both have the advantage of age over Ancelotti in terms of being able to stay long term with us.

De Boer has a better grounding as a coach/manager and knows exactly what it takes to produce a world class academy having come up through Ajax's, been at Barca and then back at Ajax for 5 years or so.

On the one hand, Klopp beating the might of Bayern twice to the title is impressive, whereas De Boer in the Dutch league always has more than just one team to finish ahead of. Despite the traditional greats of PSV and Ajax, the Dutch league is more competitive in terms of teams challenging those two.
Klopp has taken Dortmund further in Europe than De Boer has with Ajax, but the relative league strengths and finances have more than played their part. 

Ancelotti has a track record and a damn good one, in English football, whereas the two younger men have none, but de Boer has experienced English opposition as a player over the years, and did at least spend some time north of the border so his exposure to English football has been closer at hand than Klopp.

All three in their different ways would fit the club. They're all down to earth, humble, disciplined men and all three you'd imagine has an understanding and appreciation of Liverpool Football Club and I don't see any of them as the type to massage expectations in a downward trajectory.

Hell, I can almost talk myself out of Ancelotti in favour of either of them, and out of any of them in favour of each of the other two.

De Boer's availability probably works against him and Klopp's is the thing most in favour of him.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Edward224

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2015, 06:11:57 PM »
Klopp's favoured formation is 4-2-3-1.

With our current squad one suspects this would be his favoured team:-

------------------------------Mignolet-----------------------


-----Clyne--------------Skrtel------------Sakho--------Moreno-----------



-------------------------Milner------Henderson------------------------------



--------------Sturridge--------Coutinho------------Ings-----------



--------------------------------Benteke------------------------------------


Looking at his CM's at Dortmund he loves pressing, high energy mids but who can create too. I feel Lucas will be the biggest casualty of Klopp coming in.


Klopp like the physicality up front and for me I feel he'll play Benteke in the Lewandowski role. With Sturridge on the right hand side. I feel he will absolutely get the best from Benteke. I also think Ings will thrive under Klopp's style of play.

I think in January we'll be signing a DM/CM type player.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2015, 07:45:36 PM »
Looking at his CM's at Dortmund he loves pressing, high energy mids but who can create too. I feel Lucas will be the biggest casualty of Klopp coming in.

Klopp like the physicality up front and for me I feel he'll play Benteke in the Lewandowski role. With Sturridge on the right hand side. I feel he will absolutely get the best from Benteke. I also think Ings will thrive under Klopp's style of play.

I think in January we'll be signing a DM/CM type player.

I agree re our forwards.  I think they will love playing for Klopp.

However, elsewhere in the team - I just don't think we have the players, technically, to play the game he favours.

It was a horrendous mistake not to change managers in the summer- and allow Klopp to bring in a summer's worth of his own players.   
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2015, 08:43:18 PM »
It was a horrendous mistake not to change managers in the summer- and allow Klopp to bring in a summer's worth of his own players.

Exactly, and the Winter window is normally quiet as teams don't want disruption or are loathe to lose players and then try to get replacements and /or get them bedded in without the season getting de-railed.

Still, it gives any new manager time to really assess what he's got and not be tempted to make quick changes before he's seen players in real match action rather than just training or pre-season knock abouts.

At least the new manager has time to hopefully make something out of the season, rather than being a fire fighter from day one.

It makes you wonder though just how much extra this has all cost over and above what it would have done in the Summer. So there's the Winter window budget spoken for.
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Offline Edward224

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2015, 08:44:14 PM »
Klopp 3 year deal to be announced tomorrow.

Offline Tes

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2015, 10:13:34 PM »
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/468701/Revealed-Liverpool-transfer-committee-Jurgen-Klopp-deal

I don't foresee a happy ending on this one then: "He needs somebody who does that [brings in players] for him and he needs to trust these guys to be clever and smart enough to bring in the best players.

"90 per cent of the players at Borussia Dortmund weren't signed by Klopp - but they weren't signed against his wishes either.


He'll need to get FSG to put together a new 'committee' then.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Brendan Rodgers Sacked
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2015, 10:14:53 PM »
Klopp 3 year deal to be announced tomorrow.

Something tells me this has merely been rubber stamped since Sunday and was all but sorted prior.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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