February 28, 2020, 12:24:34 PM

Author Topic: Season 2016/17  (Read 140540 times)

Offline Martinmarx

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1822
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #150 on: January 16, 2017, 10:17:43 PM »
After all a not so bad result. And a not so bad performance given we missed Clyne, Matip, Mané and Coutinho isn't fit for more than 30 minutes. It is frustrating to watch the increasingly sloppy Firmino get so much game time. Fair enough he worked hard as fukc yesterday, but he also waste posession in dangerous areas when we really need to keep the ball. Since the last international break 2 months ago we have lacked that penetrating threat that saw us score freely in the opening months of the season. It goes a long way to show how thin our squad is when one players gets injured and the whole thing collapse.

It is also less encouraging that we depend on an 18 year old to fill in at right back when our first choice gets ill or injured. I agree Alexander is talented but he just isn't ready for this level yet and only their inability to score from open chances saved his blushes after losing the ball inexplicably to Martial which lead to arguably one of their better chances.

4 on the trot without a win in all competitions. Still there was something about our display against the Mancs that left me rather positive things may change for the better in the coming weeks. As Edward pointed out elsewhere 10 of our remaining 17 games will be played at Anfield where we seem strong. It will be away to WBA, Stoke, West Ham and City our season will make or break.

Oh, I know Sakho's gone. I regret prestige got into it. This is arguably Klopp's only mistake thus far but with a injuryprone Matip whose status to play is unknown, and a below required standards Klavan we sure could do with the tall Frenchmen's fighting spirit, leadership and ability to play the ball up the pitch.

Next 4 game extremly important. Need a winning run now more than ever as the teams around us will enjoy fairly easy fixtures in the meantime.

Well fought you redmen!
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Martinmarx

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1822
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #151 on: January 21, 2017, 08:04:54 PM »
My first rant at Klopp. He can bithc all he like about our defending. He should do well, however, to remember HE signed an injury-prone Matip with unclear international status, HE chose to sign the utterly worthless Klavan, HE chose to freeze out our best CB for minor disciplinary violations in the close season, HE deemed Clyne good enough, HE decided Henderson would be a leader to step forward when noone else does.

Fair enough if we'd lost to an inform WBA or Stoke at home, but to Swansea????? The team who conceded 27 goals in the last 9 games?

He can slam whoever he likes as far as I'm concerned. He'll be just another manager who tried but ultimately failed due to an idealist approach to the game footy where your "marquee"-signings are picked from relegated sides.

It is what it is. When in Europe 8th, with domestic committments only, 6th, or maybe 5th.

Whatever we built in the autumn is well and truly buried. What I hate the most is our sceptics were proven right again.

No ship the fukc Sakho off, he's actually good at football. We cannot have that, can we?

And what's worst of all is we're gonna bury Chelsea at least 3-1. We're such a small club these days. Posh boys with fancy cars, white teeth and shaved legs.

fork off I say!
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #152 on: January 21, 2017, 10:22:15 PM »
What the Premier League shows up is that you need to be able to attack and defend.

It's no accident that four (if Chelsea win it) Italian managers have one the league in league times, plus Mourinho.

When was the last time a team that looked to outscore it's own leaky defence won the league.

Pressing and possession alone are not enough. You have to be able to do the 'nuts and bolts' of defending in this league, more than any other in Europe.

We need to invest in the defensive aspect of our squad. We can't do it all on the cheap. The odd one, yes, but sometimes you have to pay £15M+ for a defender, goalkeeper or defensive midfielder, but you win games by conceding fewer than your opponent, as well as scoring more.

Southampton looks a far tougher task after today.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #153 on: January 22, 2017, 08:04:46 PM »
That's a very good point Tes, re Italian managers being successful in the premiership.

Klopp will have to adapt.  Otherwise, he is little better than a German Keegan.

Fergie said at the start of this season, that in all his years at United, they could never maintain a high pressing game for an entire season.

And when you press high, you are going to leave your defence exposed.

Balance is, and always has been, the key.   And Rafa was my fave, since Bob Paisley, when it came to creating balanced teams.

You raised a point last week, re Can.  Like you, I cannot see what he actually brings to the team.  He is neither a defensive, nor an offensive midfielder.  And he is certainly not a winger.

I was against it initially, because of the crazy price.  But maybe we have to look at bringing in Southampton's central defender, Virgil Van Dijk.  And team him with Matip.

On Matip - we have lost three league games and a cup game - he has been absent each time.  He is a big loss for us.   Maybe pair Matip with Van Dijk.

And I would upgrade Can, to something much better.

But being Keeganesque, Klopp may instead focus on bringing in more offensive type players.

We are going to see what Klopp is all about, come this summer's transfer window.

The fact that he is keeping his pepper dry during the January window, suggests to me, he has a couple of key players lined up for the summer window.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 08:05:59 PM by the dude abides »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #154 on: January 25, 2017, 09:58:53 PM »
Southampton into the final.

We were dire.

It's only January - and yet we look physically and mentally exhausted.

The honeymoon period is over for Klopp.

On this form, we will be lucky to finish top 8.

He has a lot to prove....a lot of questions to answer.  Or maybe he always was a German Keegan.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #155 on: January 25, 2017, 10:27:46 PM »
Southampton into the final.

We were dire.

It's only January - and yet we look physically and mentally exhausted.

The honeymoon period is over for Klopp.

On this form, we will be lucky to finish top 8.

He has a lot to prove....a lot of questions to answer.  Or maybe he always was a German Keegan.

Southampton picked us off at will.

If, and surely it's a huge if, Juve want Can, then we better get him sold now before Juventus have the rest of the season to realise their mistake.

Henderson is playing with an injury, I'm certain, and consequently playing within himself.

We either need to play to Sturridge's strengths or else sell him and buy someone who can fit the system.

We look like a team in transition - we don't have the players yet to suit Klopp's system, and the system being employed is not necessarily the best one for the players we have.

Klopp needs to find a way to incorporate proper defending into the system. You can't do an entire English season of high and intense pressing. It has to be a part of the system and used selectively.

We still lack pace (without Mane).

We need a Plan B, and within it a change of formation possibly, if we're getting over run in midfield.

We need more and sharper movement when teams come to defend, but we can't if the players are burnt out from high tempo pressing.

Hopefully Klopp is learning about the intensity and physical demands of an English season, and we'll see a different approach in numerous areas next season in order for the players to be able to be 'paced' for the entire season.

And so the FA Cup it is, and we need to see a huge performance against Wolves.

The Chelsea game already looks like one where you watch it through your fingers, like a horror movie.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #156 on: January 27, 2017, 01:54:24 AM »
you and me have long been in agreement re Can, Tes.  As you say, if Juventus want him, then let him go.  He is now in the premiership for two and a half seasons - I see no progress. 

He is neither a defensive, nor an attacking midfielder.

He has the turning circle of the titanic.  And he takes a dozen touches, when one would do.

Indeed, to my eyes, he looks a tad overweight for someone so young.

That is a good point re Henderson.  He may be playing within himself because of an injury.

Even Nuclear-Powered Milner is looking totally jaded, and out of energy these weeks.

As you say, the high temp pressing is ruining us.   There is no core plan - it is all about high tempo pressing or nothing.

We have no balance. 

It's embarrassing watching us - endless pretty passing, and triangles, but going nowhere....loads of useless possession.  And when the other side gets the ball, they run at us and threaten to score each time.  It is embarrassing their efficiency and our inefficiency.

When it comes to corners - the ref may was well award a goal kick to the other side.  Corners are a waste of time to us.

THIS SUMMER

I'd upgrade Can. 

I would sell Curler Sturridge and Danny Ings.....and bring in two top class strikers.  Firminho would be my main guy upfront. 

I would bring in a  top left back, and play Milner further forward. 

But most of all, Klopp has to catch himself on - and adapt to England.  Our form against the bottom 8 sides in the premiership, is relegation form.

And it's not as if Burnley, Swansea, Sunderland and Southampton had to play out of their skins, or have luck, to get a result against us.  They were comfortable against us. 

Our form these past 6 weeks is bottom 8 form.

A good manager arrests slumps.  But we look exhausted.....mentally and physically. 

I fear for us, I really do.


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #157 on: January 28, 2017, 03:26:55 PM »
So now, sadly and embarrassingly,  we have a clear calendar as far as fixtures other than the league goes.

Klopp and his assistants now have to sort things asap, with no distractions.

Bottom line is we can't defend. We can't stop any opposition scoring, whilst other teams can set themselves up and throughout the 90(+) minutes make it far harder for us to get near their goal than we do for them to put the ball in our net.

Is the lack of Mane really the only and entire depth of our recent malaise? I really can't see it.

If so, why has a team and an entire system been built around one single player, and one we knew we'd be without for a chunk of the season, without any additional absences through, injury and suspension, and reduced influence through any potential loss of form?
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #158 on: January 28, 2017, 03:41:01 PM »
Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal up next at home. After Swansea, Southampton and Wolves debacles, I'll take a point against each right now.

How have we fallen off a cliff so spectacularly in the last few weeks? Which is the real Liverpool? The one from the first three months of the season (Burnley excepting) or the one from the last three months?

I hope Klopp now realises there are no easy games in English football. You can't try to be clever, only simple, sensible and smart.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Martinmarx

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1822
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #159 on: January 28, 2017, 03:51:51 PM »
This is the real Liverpool. We clearly overperformed in the early months. Nevertheless, it's shocking to see us sink so low so quickly. 4 defeats on the trot at Anfield. When was the last time that happened? I seriously cannot remember.

16 months of hard work undone in 1 week. Only one club in England is capable of such lowly standards. Fair enough we may only have 2-3 good enough players in the squad, but the lack of pride, urgency and will to win is alarming to say the least.

Klopp's been hailed as one of the best managers around. Based on what? He more and more look like Rodgers in disguise only difference being he extended his "golden era" and only managed to win the title. As far as idealist hipster notions on how football should/could be played he's in the same mould as his predecessor.

I see no hope of things getting better this season. As I said after the defeat to Swansea we'll win tops 3 games of the coming 10. We'll then finish things of well when there's nothing at stake to salvage a 7th place finish.

We'll then sell Coutinho and buy 6-7 new Wijnaldum, Marcovic, Firmino, Moreno and Klavan-like players. Start over.

This really is reminiscent of the final weeks of Rodgers reign.
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #160 on: January 30, 2017, 10:32:45 AM »
Fair enough we may only have 2-3 good enough players in the squad, but the lack of pride, urgency and will to win is alarming to say the least.

That's the hardest thing to take about the Southampton defeat.

One game from a Wembley final should have been enough motivation. If it's not, then it would be against our biggest rivals. And then there's the chance to get one over on Mourinho and stop him winning his first trophy at the Mancs.

How much more motivation did they need? I realise that the LFC shirt means far less to players than it does to us, so I'm not going to be disrespectful to the players of our past who were proud to play for the shirt, by offering that up as a source of motivation and pride.

Burnley, Sunderland, Bournemouth and Swansea. 11 goals  conceded and a solitary point to show. I'd suggest it does mean there's a problem with the defence and the entire defensive setup, and as the ability to shut out the opposition is getting not a single degree better, then maybe the coaching has to be questioned too.

We don't look like we know how to defend. The players look clueless, and definitely not as though they've been drilled at all in training.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #161 on: January 30, 2017, 07:50:22 PM »
we look physically and mentally exhausted.

even Milner and Hendo look spent.

The bright side of being knocked out of the cups in a single week, and having no European fixtures, is that we now only have the premiership to concern ourselves with.

So we have 16 games left, across the next four months.

We will have time to recharge our batteries.

As Houllier might have put it, from a cliff-edge in late November, Klopp has gone from hero to zero.

I am really disappointed that there is no core structure to his teams.  There is no defence, only attack.  There is no time or game management, or energy management.....only all or nothing. 

You're not going to have long-term success with that madness.  A German Keegan.

Very disappointed.  He will have to kop himself on.  Top bosses adapt and learn. 

I am hopeful.    But it will be too late for this season.

Starting to wonder if I, in my lifetime, will ever see us win the title again. 

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Edward224

  • Established
  • ****
  • Posts: 977
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #162 on: January 30, 2017, 07:50:57 PM »
Leicester should have made it 3-2 and we'd have seen then what our mentality would have been like.

Too many liabilities in the team. The whole defence (including Mignolet) apart from Clyne is a joke.

The midfield non existent - I told everyone that Wijnaldum is a waste of space and I am being proven right. He goes missing when the tough gets going and is a useless midfielder. What has he done in four games? Be non existent that is what. Terrible terrible player. We have to play Henderson as the defensive midfielder because of this guy thus losing out Henderson's pressing, energy and game intelligence higher up the pitch.

I am happy that Lallana has been doing well, I have been fully  behind him from day one because I know he has the talent and skill and his new position looks great for him. His link up play something we the fans and the pundits take for granted or don't realise.

There is a very good reason Lallana has always been a mainstay in Jurgen's team and a mainstay for England too.

We have to score 2, 3, 4 goals a game to win matches - that cannot last.

For me the players still have to prove they have the bottle for the job especially when things aren't going well. Sorry but that Europa league final justifies this for me and I will gladly want to me proven wrong but they need to obtain that battle hardeness, that know-how and game management in games to get over the line.

At least we'll finish above the west ham but everton look to as the team to replace them in terms of challenging for a Europa place. Both manc clubs and Chelsea are a level above and Spurs have a better squad imo and look the real deal plus have a reliable defence which will save/win them points. Our defence will lose us points.

Sorry to say I told you so.............

Offline Edward224

  • Established
  • ****
  • Posts: 977
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #163 on: January 30, 2017, 07:52:00 PM »
I wish I could share your optimism but I can't. Klopp could be Shanks and Paisley combined but he still won't do anything with this squad against our competitors.

We'll finish 7th or 8th - I said to Martin prior to the Europa league final that our weak mentality would cost us and our lack of battle hardened players would cost us and I was right. I've seen nothing that seems to have changed that. We lack a real leader - and I don't mean leader as in captain but a leader like Ibrahimovic will be for utd. Someone that can drag the team over the line by maintaining a standard for the rest of the players to set.

We have no outstanding defender (although Clyne can be that) and we have no DM apart from Lucas who has lost his physicality. So we'll see.

And again.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #164 on: January 30, 2017, 09:43:23 PM »
Sorry to say I told you so.............

And again.

Sorry to say I told you so.............

And again.

Send your C.V to Mike Gordon, or maybe Michael Edwards.  ;D
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.