February 28, 2020, 11:59:18 AM

Author Topic: Season 2016/17  (Read 140519 times)

Offline Tes

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Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #166 on: January 31, 2017, 07:49:25 AM »
Sorry to say I told you so.............




but Ed, you have been predicting the end is nigh, for 40 years.

 ::)
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #167 on: January 31, 2017, 07:57:03 AM »
Ronnie Whelan's take on everything:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/ronnie-whelan-jurgen-klopp-has-admitted-to-a-fundamental-error-in-judgement-and-it-has-caused-a-crisis-35409743.html

Quote
Ronnie argues that:  Klopp has to be disturbed at how the Cups exposed the lack of depth at the club

Whelan's argument would hold water, IF we were being beaten by top teams.  That isn't the case.  We are being easily dismissed (at Anfield) by clubs with a helluva lot less resources than we possess.

There is something, a lot more fundamental, going on  IMHO

And why would our resources be stretched, i.e. we don't have the depth argument, when we don't even have European fixtures this season. 

No, to fall off a cliff edge, as we have done, points to something more fundamental.

It points to running out of energy - and/or other sides working out how to play us.







In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #168 on: January 31, 2017, 08:40:13 PM »
almost half time Liverpool 0 Chelsea 1

snoring during freekick preparation.....blues score.

well we have 70 percent possession to their 30.....always something.

maybe we can bore them to bloddy death.


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #169 on: January 31, 2017, 09:57:14 PM »

No, to fall off a cliff edge, as we have done, points to something more fundamental.

It points to running out of energy - and/or other sides working out how to play us.

We've had the league cup but that's one game a month extra, so that's not a reason.

Teams can use a very simple technique against us. Hit the ball longer, and as long as it's done quickly, it takes out the group of two or three trying to do the press on that one man, and can also bi-sect the midfield too.
There's plenty of room down our flanks in the opponents attacking third, and as long as the ball doesn't go anywhere near Hendo, then if they haven't gone direct to the striker for a knockdown, then there's plenty of space in midfield, in front of our back four (two), especially if Hendo's got pulled towards one of their flanks. A quick ball back inside and they're bearing down on the centre of our defence after two passes. 

Most of the players are used to an English season, and no mid-Winter break, but if both the style of play and training is too intense, then there's a chance of burnout.
Has Klopp been able to factor in a lack of a mid-Winter break, the intensity of Boxing Day / New Year period, plus the greater physicality of the PL.
We look as though we simply haven't paced ourselves for an entire season, or that the training regime would work with a two-four week break in December / January, when there's total rest, but that instead of resting, the exact opposite happens in the PL.

I don't think we've dealt with Mane's absence very well. Losing him, plus effectively losing the Lallana of this season by moving him out of the position he's thrived on, and then replacing Lallana with an out of sorts Can, playing on the wrong side.
The initial problem of replacing Mane, has been addressed by creating further problems and positional upheaval, and each area of upheaval addressed with a totally unsuitable player.

With the Sakho situation, and Matip's injuries, we've had our fourth choice centre half playing too often, and as there's no way back for Sakho, Matip's injuries and Klaven's adjustment time, Fonte would have been an experienced solution, a leader on the pitch, and a good defensive organiser, plus a potential mentor for Gomez.

Sometimes simplicity and the obvious thing can also actually be the best. It's possible to over complicate and try and be too clever.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #170 on: February 01, 2017, 03:09:34 PM »
What a depressing read:

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/02/liverpool-track-achieve-success-201617-wont-involve-silverware/

There's so much spin I'm going to have a sit down on a helicopter rotor to recover.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #171 on: February 01, 2017, 05:44:04 PM »
Teams can use a very simple technique against us. Hit the ball longer, and as long as it's done quickly, it takes out the group of two or three trying to do the press on that one man, and can also bi-sect the midfield too.
There's plenty of room down our flanks in the opponents attacking third, and as long as the ball doesn't go anywhere near Hendo, then if they haven't gone direct to the striker for a knockdown, then there's plenty of space in midfield, in front of our back four (two), especially if Hendo's got pulled towards one of their flanks. A quick ball back inside and they're bearing down on the centre of our defence after two passes. 

Most of the players are used to an English season, and no mid-Winter break, but if both the style of play and training is too intense, then there's a chance of burnout.
Has Klopp been able to factor in a lack of a mid-Winter break, the intensity of Boxing Day / New Year period, plus the greater physicality of the PL.
We look as though we simply haven't paced ourselves for an entire season, or that the training regime would work with a two-four week break in December / January, when there's total rest, but that instead of resting, the exact opposite happens in the PL.

Sometimes simplicity and the obvious thing can also actually be the best. It's possible to over complicate and try and be too clever.

yes, I saw in the second half of the United game, a few weeks back, where Jose simply mixed it up, and played long balls, over our midfielders, which nulled our midfield.   It was very effective.

Now MAYBE other sides have caught that tactic on.

But even with ordinary play, as you point out above, it is far too simple to be quickly bearing down on our centre of defence.

I have always been a massive fan of balance.  Thus I was always a big fan of Bob Paisley and Rafa Benitez.  I just do not see proper balance in Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool team.

If we don't play fast pressing energy sapping football, we seem to have no other ideas.....no plan b, or c.   And I just can't figure what role people like Emre Can play.  Indeed, technically alone, I find him very average. 

We play proper football against the top sides - and play it well.  But against lower teams, we masturbate ourselves to death, preening ourselves, passing for the sake of passing, and going nowhere fast - meanwhile the opposition breaks fast, and kicks sand in our faces.

Klopp has lots of recovery time now.  I think he can get back to winning ways.  Though our confidence has to be at record lows (under his leadership).  He will have to find many answers.  I don't think he can keep on getting beaten by clubs with far less resources, and maintain his aura.   

The honeymoon period is over.




In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #172 on: February 01, 2017, 05:53:47 PM »
What a depressing read:

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/02/liverpool-track-achieve-success-201617-wont-involve-silverware/

There's so much spin I'm going to have a sit down on a helicopter rotor to recover.

 :D

the article is correct, in saying that there are lots of positives to date.  We never expected to be fighting for the title this season.  Thus, we have overachieved across the first 3 or 4 months of the season.

I can somehow manage to cope with not challenging.

But it's the hope that kills me. 

Just when we look like competing for that first title in nearly 30 years, we get hit by a tsunami of shiteness.





In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #173 on: February 03, 2017, 05:39:09 PM »
I really enjoyed reading this interview with Avram Grant, a few days ago. 

Avram, once coach at Chelsea, now Ghana boss (he took them to the semis of the African Nations Cup, losing yesterday to Cameron).   The full article is at the url below.  But here he talks of how team talks at Liverpool, under Paisley, were so brief and simple......unlike the talks given by German coaches.   


Avram Grant: ‘When you say tiki-taka, it starts with Bob Paisley’ The most significant part of Grant’s education came at Liverpool when Bob Paisley allowed him to observe training at Melwood – although only after he had changed out of the blue shirt he had thoughtlessly worn on his first day. “He was a big, big influence, first because of the way he chose the players and ran the team,” Grant says. “I came from Germany where the team-talk needed to be two hours and they’d speak about the opponent, but he spoke like two minutes before the game. Paisley didn’t speak much, but when he did it was straight to the point.

“I remember they played against Everton. [The then coach Tom] Saunders was there and I said to him: ‘Can I see the team-talk?’ He said: ‘We did it already. It’s what the players came to do 10 minutes ago and we finished five minutes ago.’ I asked him what was said and he said: ‘Oh, two or three things.’ I’d just come from Germany with two hours’ team-talk about the opponents and I thought: ‘Well, they won’t win the game.’ The result? They won. Then I started to think about the mental capacity of players to take in information.

“The way they played was unbelievable. I think people don’t remember that but he really changed football in England. Nobody before played like this.

They played on the ground, not long balls – and they won three European Cups. Since I was there I followed all the games and it was amazing to see them: tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. When you say ‘tiki taka’, it starts with them.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/27/avram-grant-ghana-africa-cup-of-nations
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #174 on: February 04, 2017, 05:20:51 PM »
Klopp was fooled with the squad. We had a good run where teams opened up against us combined with a purple patch for some of the players and all was rosey.

Now the squad has truly been exposed for what it is and anyone who thinks we're getting top 4 based on last 6 weeks is kidding themselves.

Two holding midfielders in the middle. A midfielder at lb and cb. A goalkeeper who would be 2nd choice for any team in the top 10. An attacking midfielder as a CF. We are the joke of the premier league at the moment and we have reaped what we have sowed.

The good news is that Klopp seems determined to wait for the players he wants but will they want to come based on where we are come the end of the season?

If not we'll be here saying the same thing forever.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #175 on: February 04, 2017, 09:07:14 PM »
there's always next year.










































































In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #176 on: February 06, 2017, 07:52:12 PM »
I'm not ready to give up on Klopp just yet. There's little to suggest, though, he'll turn it around. One could argue his success at Dortmund derived from him arriving at a low point for the club where his personality was not only allowed to flourish but also payed off a lot. As I gather, Bundesliga teams soon enough learnt how to cope with his gegen-pressing footy and once they did, results nosedived. I am worried he too come across as too stubborn playing a mediocre and not good enough Can just to prove the footballing world wrong. His handling of Sakho also leaves a lot to desire. The squad is screaming out for players with leadership. Though some of you may not appreciate Sakho's footballing skills, a leader he is. IMHO he was by far our best CB and the only one able to play the ball from the back-line through the center to break the slow and predictable play we've adopted since his departure. With him in the team we would've had at least Another 5-6 points I am sure. I'm thinking his inability to deal with Sakho in a mature way resembles Mourinho's mistake with the club doctor.

He also refuse to use the bench while the rest of the world can see Firmino's having yet another stinker.

I do not know where we go from here but the fact we went from looking like one of Europe's best teams to relegation form in just a few months tells me those holding their breath for a balanced Liverpool side might want to reconsider.

The season is over. The goal right now should be to avoid the Bitters' overtaking us.  Much will depend on what he learn from this and what player he chose to sign in the summer. Right now we look more like a new Stoke than retaining our big club status.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 07:54:52 PM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #177 on: February 08, 2017, 12:59:27 AM »
there's always next year.

Or the one after that.  ;D
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #178 on: February 08, 2017, 09:27:10 AM »
The Spurs game all of a sudden look like make or break for Klopp. A draw against Spurs would give him a respite over the Cup-break to re-organise his troops while  a win would reigniting hope (at least in some quarters) of a finish in the top 4. A defeat, however, would set us back far more dramatically than I think most people realise. It would destabilise the club and would undermine Klopp's radically. A 3-1 defeat would, IMHO, bring severe ramifications not only for the reminder of this season but even far into the next.

I don't mean to sound alarming but losing to Spurs would mark them finally overtaking us as a big club.

This will certainly be a test of character for our more senior players. Another jaded and uninspirational display from Coutinho would raise questions about his big player status.

We shall see but as of today I have no clue how it all will pan out as I fear the current crisis might go deeper than we'd like to believe.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2016/17
« Reply #179 on: February 09, 2017, 05:53:43 PM »
Or the one after that.  ;D

 ;D

been waiting almost three decades for our next league title, so another one or ten won't kill me (assuming I can live that long).

It's the tease, and occasional hope, that renders me a zombie.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.