October 16, 2019, 04:15:10 AM

Author Topic: Season 2017/18  (Read 92113 times)

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #75 on: October 08, 2017, 07:18:37 PM »
Klopp's Dortmund team was one of the most balanced teams around, so it isn't like he is a keegan like manager who just attacks, but he has seriously underestimated the ability of his defensive players.

He certainly seems to have too much faith in them and appears to have overrated their ability. Thinking that only Van Dijk was needed, and Sakho was surplus, even though that would have left Matip, Lovren and Klavan alongside Van Dijk, clearly demonstrates it.

On current form, we appear to need at least three new centre halves, but even they are going to struggle if there's no protection from midfield, and both full backs are playing like wingers.

I don't like this idea of his that the two centre halves need only to defend the type of pass Shelvey made by stepping up. Catching a single forward offside also relies on the linesman and/or referee spotting the offside.
I'd rather we defended by being 100% responsible ourselves, rather than relying on officials to get their part right too.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #76 on: October 14, 2017, 05:47:07 PM »
it's like watching a toothless lion trying to maul a donkey every weekend.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #77 on: October 15, 2017, 12:51:09 PM »
"The question for Klopp at Liverpool was always going to be whether his hyperactive approach could be as effective in the Premier League in which everybody plays at a high tempo. Even towards the end in Germany, there was a suspicion that with other teams also pressing hard and high, Dortmund were diminished. It was no longer sufficient to run further or faster than other sides in the league. In addition, as teams become more used to counteracting gegenpressing, as their players become more inclined to hit long balls over the press, the tactic loses its power to shock. Klopp’s approach is no longer unique; it’s not even unusual.

Familiarity is one issue; fatigue, or rather efforts to stave it off, is another. Last season Liverpool’s form collapsed in January. This season, with the Champions League to worry about as well, the sense is that Liverpool have eased back. They are no longer pressing with the same ferocity. In Klopp’s first two seasons at Anfield, the average length of each spell of possession enjoyed by an opponent was 5.9 seconds. This season that is up to 6.5, which is lower than the league average but far from exceptional. Distance run and high-intensity sprint stats have dropped.
David de Gea’s block saves a point but cautious United miss their chance

That, presumably, is part of a conscious plan – the fear for Liverpool is that it is a result of players losing faith in Klopp and not pushing themselves to their physical limits as a result – and given what happened in the second half of last season it makes sense. The problem is that by not engaging opponents high up the pitch, Liverpool are having to do more traditional defending in their own final third, and they’re not very good at that."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/oct/15/jurgen-klopp-tactics-liverpool-manchester-united
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #78 on: October 15, 2017, 12:52:30 PM »
Jonathan Wilson's article above is well worth a read.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #79 on: October 16, 2017, 12:03:54 PM »
Jonathan Wilson's article above is well worth a read.

It's very interesting. If Plan B is to ease off an aspect of Plan A, but without being able to also make up for any problem that may bring, then it's a real problem.

It was interesting watching City carve open Stoke (though Stoke players look to have given up the ghost from the off), how simple the method was of getting the ball out wide, then passing it into the box to a player who was there to finish it off. They weren't crosses, as they were too accurately directed into the path and feet of an individual player. Those curved passes from a slightly deeper position are a nightmare for defenders turning a facing their own goal, but it was also the movement of the City players that allowed the passer to pick out the player. Players weren't stood, with an opponent between them and the man with the ball, and expecting to still receive it. Movement was the key.

I've said before, when we come up against teams that defend deep in numbers, we have to match their effort in closing down, tracking and blocking, with our own effort in players without the ball constantly moving and working equally hard to find space for quick passes to be played to, and they be equally quick in laying off the ball. Playing one touch, keeping the ball constantly moving, with players constantly moving, can allow us to make it difficult for numbers to maintain structured discipline when defending.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #80 on: October 16, 2017, 12:07:15 PM »
It was a more disciplined performance against the Mancs, with one eye on keeping the back door shut, but relying on pace alone will never be enough. It's fine if there's space in behind to head for, but when that space is not there because of a deep defensive line, we need pace in another way - quick movement of the ball, and players around it.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

  • Too old to be a
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 10196
  • I hate defending
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2017, 11:54:35 PM »
After Henderson's recent performances, and Wijnaldum going missing on away days, surely Milner must keep his place in the team somewhere in midfield.

Whether Can can be disciplined enough to allow Milner and Oxlade-Chamberlain to be in the same team, I don't know, or maybe that's potentially too attacking, but it would be nice to see both those players keep their places if possible, as none of Can, Henderson or Wijnaldum have exactly pulled up many trees lately.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2017, 10:38:18 PM »
It was interesting watching City carve open Stoke (though Stoke players look to have given up the ghost from the off), how simple the method was of getting the ball out wide, then passing it into the box to a player who was there to finish it off. They weren't crosses, as they were too accurately directed into the path and feet of an individual player. Those curved passes from a slightly deeper position are a nightmare for defenders turning a facing their own goal

agreed.

John Aldridge this week echoed my own views on the issue.  We knock loads of crosses into the box and for what purpose.  We don't have an out and out striker (like a Shearer) who is going to get his head on the end of them.  I often say that refs should stop awarding us corners - because they always amount to nothing. 

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #83 on: October 21, 2017, 10:42:11 PM »
After Henderson's recent performances, and Wijnaldum going missing on away days, surely Milner must keep his place in the team somewhere in midfield.

Whether Can can be disciplined enough to allow Milner and Oxlade-Chamberlain to be in the same team, I don't know, or maybe that's potentially too attacking, but it would be nice to see both those players keep their places if possible, as none of Can, Henderson or Wijnaldum have exactly pulled up many trees lately.

I like Hendo.  But the jigsaw worked with Milner in the middle.  I am a big fan of Milner. 

Maybe Klopp has accidentally happened upon a formula that works now.  We will see in the games to come.

I dislike having to wait to Sunday, to see our weekly game. 

United came up short today.  United mate was telling me on Friday that he doesn't rate United's defence.  I see why today.   Maybe we missed out on the extra two points last weekend against them!
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2017, 04:14:17 PM »
spurs two up after 12 minutes

lovren having a nightmare

indeed, they had a goal disallowed after a couple of minutes - again lovren caught out.

klopp has zero idea about setting up a defence or a balanced side.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2017, 04:15:11 PM »
sub lovren.

wish we could sub Klopp too.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2017, 04:18:45 PM »
16 mins......spurs hit the underside of the bar.

spurs are giving klopp a masterclass on how to counter attack.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2017, 04:55:22 PM »
half time

3-1 down......another error from our defence.

klopp's team seemingly has to score 4 or 5 to be sure of winning any game.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #88 on: October 22, 2017, 05:52:32 PM »
Juventus are welcome to Can.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 8113
  • that rug really tied the room together
    • View Profile
Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #89 on: October 22, 2017, 05:58:33 PM »
Rafa come back please.

Keegan on steroids, needs replacing.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.