Season 2017/18

[Tes]

Not odd at all.  I think a lot of supporters including me have had that thought over the summer transfer window.  To be seen to do something rather than actually doing something feels like a good fit for FSG.

When you start to look at the overall amount spent over the last 3 transfer windows, you really do to start to wonder (all sorts of things).

When Klopp was appointed I was looking forward to seeing us do Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge type deals, uncovering rough diamonds and polishing them up. Likewise with Rodgers, the only potential saving grace of any sort was the fact that he might do the same ie signing Van Dijk in the Summer of 2015 or even 2013 (when he moved to Celtic) was exactly the sort of deal I was expecting from him.

That didn't and doesn't seem to be happening, nor are we landing more established players for 'decent' prices, and just when you thought we would be investing in a number of players, be they one or the other type mentioned above, a mixture of the two, or 3 - 5 genuine first choice players, we don't seem to be doing that.

Even picking up Salah, Keita and Van Dijk, would leave us weak in some areas and under strength in others.

Likewise FSG appearing to be trying to do high priced deals, whilst holding on to the likes of Sakho, Markovic and Moreno (I'm sure Klopp will see the reality soon enough) etc, by asking too much for players clubs clearly know we don't want (there's no disguising the fact that it's any other way), and not raising some cash, whilst clearing the decks somewhat, seems at odds with not actually spending those big sums. It seems like the worse of both worlds, and a very confused approach.

I wonder how much of an influence Edwards, Fallows, Hunter etc is having in all of these things, as they're the thing that connects both managers' time here. Just how much of a network of contacts does Klopp have, or was Michael Zorc the real power and genius behind the throne, and of course there's no-one of his ilk, with possibly everything he brings to the table, here for Klopp to utilise and benefit from.

[Tes]

Good going forward, still wobbly at the back.

Does Klopp honestly think he cannot improve on Lovren?

At least we're through and can now actually claim to be in the CL. 

[Tes]

So, we've got Leicester away in the League Cup third round.

Anyone know who or what 'Carabao' is?  That's the 'sponsor' of this season's League Cup. 

[Tes]

Apparently Karius plays today and Mignolet is not even in the squad, despite supposedly not being ill, injured, or obviously suspended.

Why? What's he done wrong?

I could be cynical and say because he's not German and wasn't signed by Klopp, but I won't, and I don't think that's the case, but it's an odd one anyway. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/27/simon-mignolet-omitted-liverpool-squad-face-arsenal/

I think I'd prefer Ward ahead of Karius. He was superb for Huddersfield last season and I see him as the safer long term bet than Karius.

As I said. This one is odd.

[Tes]

Wow. 4-0. Wasn't really expecting that, and unmarked bed linen for Karius.

2nd in the league. 2nd highest goal difference. It's a solid start, last two games at least.

Now we have to hope for a clean bill of health from the d@mned internationals.

Made up for Sturridge getting a goal.
 

[Gurdeep]

Great performance from the TEAM.  But, I'm not gonna carried away as Arsenal we're extremely poor on the day.  The bench mark for me will be beating those teams in the mid to bottom half of the table.   Something which we have struggled to do successfully for gawd knows how long. 

[Tes]

Great performance from the TEAM.  But, I'm not gonna carried away as Arsenal we're extremely poor on the day.  The bench mark for me will be beating those teams in the mid to bottom half of the table.   Something which we have struggled to do successfully for gawd knows how long.

Exactly. Citeh up next, but that's not the worry. Burnley, Leicester, WBA, Stoke etc away, oh, and Bournemouth (they score against for fun) are the concerns. Teams that will defend deep in numbers, and look to work crossing positions or nick corners and utilise them to score against us.

[Tes]

City up next after the international break. I just hope all the hype after yesterday's result doesn't take the edge of the players.   

[Tes]

It will be interesting to see what Coutinho does after Tuesday. Brazil have a world cup qualifier away to Colombia, so let's see if he flies back with Firmino and co (players from Chelsea etc, all on a flight chartered by PL clubs with Brazilian players), or whether he 'does a Costa' and flies to and stays in Brazil.

[the dude abides]

4-0

0-5

it's a feast or a famine.

the highs and lows of watching an unbalanced team.

game utterly changed after sending off.

great shame - I thought we were bossing City - despite them getting a goal ahead.

[Tes]

But when you're a team who's only strength is attacking, when you give away the easiest of goals (that most teams would put down to a singular 'bad day at the office') on a regular basis, at worse than once every other game, then you have nothing to come back with.

When it's your best attacker, your trump card, that's lost, then it's simply a case of how many you'll get outscored by.

We can't close a game out at two up. Three goals aren't necessarily enough for three points.

We can't defend at the best of times. Our modus operandus is to outscore the opposition, so when you lose your ace then the climb becomes vertical. If we could have held on for 1-0, it could have been seen as almost a victory of sorts, but they all saw the writing on the wall in huge neon flashing letters as soon as Mane was dismissed, threw up their hands and gave up on the spot.

I know Klopp wanted Van Dijk as first choice, and I think the degree of the desire led us to overplay our hand and get carried away in his pursuit.

I know clubs say "he's not for sale" and then later go back on their word, but surely there was a case for believing Southampton may be as determined to keep their best player as we were to keep ours, and therefore having recognised that as a possibility, which it always was until we see Van Dijk posing with a Liverpool scarf above his head on the Anfield turf, then we had to have an alternative.

The alternative didn't need to be someone like Van Dijk, or as good as Van Dijk etc, etc, in fact the alternative had nothing to do with Van Dijk. Our whole aim in getting Van Dijk was to improve the defence, not just to sign Van Dijk as an act in itself. Therefore, an alternative, not necessarily even the alternative, was to sign a player better than Klavan, or even better, Lovren.
Surely, there are/were central defenders better than Klavan available, and I'm sure better than Lovren too.

So whilst we didn't improve our defence with Van Dijk, we improved our defence none the less.

Blindness is a terrible thing, especially when it's not biologically caused.   
 

[the dude abides]

but is Van Dijk, or any other defender, the solution.

to me, the issue looks structural - not one primarily due to personnel.

if one exposes our defenders and keeper to top class opponents, one will always concede goals.

we play heavy metal football, always on the front foot.  I'd hate to be a defender in our team. 

I want balance - call me old fashioned.   I don't want us to be sent out, with the sole tactic to OUTSCORE the opposition.

As you say - even at 2 or 3 nil up, we cannot close out a game.

And today - just because we lose a player, why do we have to get slaughtered, with City scoring a further 4 goals?   Does our boss not have tactics to protect the defence, when we are down to ten men.

[Tes]

but is Van Dijk, or any other defender, the solution.

to me, the issue looks structural - not one primarily due to personnel.

if one exposes our defenders and keeper to top class opponents, one will always concede goals.

we play heavy metal football, always on the front foot.  I'd hate to be a defender in our team. 

I want balance - call me old fashioned.   I don't want us to be sent out, with the sole tactic to OUTSCORE the opposition.

As you say - even at 2 or 3 nil up, we cannot close out a game.

And today - just because we lose a player, why do we have to get slaughtered, with City scoring a further 4 goals?   Does our boss not have tactics to protect the defence, when we are down to ten men.

I totally agree Dude, which makes the whole idea of Virgil Van Dijk being the only solution Klopp could come up with during the Summer, even more frustrating.

I don't think Klopp has a plan for the defensive side of the game, period. Whether we've got 11, or 10, whether we're three up, or one down, or whatever.

Teams walk straight through our midfield, or take up unchallenged or unmarked positions in our penalty area at will.

He's talked about reducing the number of crosses we allow teams to put in etc, but if both full backs go marauding forward at the same time, we're left with no cover in behind. You can't expect centre halves to keep coming out of the middle and trying to cover, and if full backs are to be used like that, then you need two sitters in midfield, so that one one can come across and cover the flank should an early ball be played into the chasm of space left.
Likewise, you can't play an extra high line if your centre halves lack recovery pace.

Even if all the above is sorted, teams will get a free kick out wide, or a corner and you have to be able to defend them, to do what is 'bread and butter' defending.

[Tes]

One thing that was laid bare yesterday was our complete lack of leadership anywhere on the field.

There was a huge delay for the goalkeeper's treatment, and that was the time leadership needed to come to the fore, to get us through to halftime, and then again during the second half.

Senior players like Henderson and Wijnaldum were totally invisible. Can failed to live up to his own super elevated opinion of himself once again.

Trent got no help or support the entire game. Klavan is or has been the captain of his country. Matip is 26 and vastly experienced.

It was truly pitiful.

[the dude abides]

Klopp's talked about reducing the number of crosses we allow teams to put in etc, but if both full backs go marauding forward at the same time, we're left with no cover in behind. You can't expect centre halves to keep coming out of the middle and trying to cover, and if full backs are to be used like that, then you need two sitters in midfield, so that one one can come across and cover the flank should an early ball be played into the chasm of space left.
Likewise, you can't play an extra high line if your centre halves lack recovery pace.

Even if all the above is sorted, teams will get a free kick out wide, or a corner and you have to be able to defend them, to do what is 'bread and butter' defending.

absolutely.

I saw Klopp saying since the defeat, that his team in training practices 7 defenders against 14 attackers....and often don't concede any goals.

But I just don't see any evidence of this during games.

As you mention above, if we have two marauding wing-backs, then this totally contradicts his stated wish to have less crosses come in from our opponents.

What he says and what he does, do not match up.

Overall, there is no Plan B.  It's attack, attack, attack.  Or in one word - OUTSCORE.   

It's great to watch when we are dominating games - but it is seat of the pants stuff, even at the best of times.

I'm old fashioned perhaps.  But I think balance is key.  It's a crying shame that Rafa is not around.....especially with all the resources that the club now has (compared to when he was with us).