September 26, 2017, 07:09:56 PM

Author Topic: Season 2017/18  (Read 625 times)

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2017, 11:25:35 AM »
a correlation?

Alex Chamberlain loses his last two games 0-4 and 0-5.

a common denominator, perhaps.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2017, 11:29:10 AM »
and come to think of it, he was awful in the international in between these two league games.


Thierry Henry said something quite telling after the transfer:

“You have to bring something on the table. I have been watching him (the OX) for a very long time and I still don’t know what he’s good at."
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2017, 11:43:33 AM »
absolutely.

I saw Klopp saying since the defeat, that his team in training practices 7 defenders against 14 attackers....and often don't concede any goals.

But I just don't see any evidence of this during games.

As you mention above, if we have two marauding wing-backs, then this totally contradicts his stated wish to have less crosses come in from our opponents.

What he says and what he does, do not match up.

Overall, there is no Plan B.  It's attack, attack, attack.  Or in one word - OUTSCORE.   

It's great to watch when we are dominating games - but it is seat of the pants stuff, even at the best of times.

I'm old fashioned perhaps.  But I think balance is key.  It's a crying shame that Rafa is not around.....especially with all the resources that the club now has (compared to when he was with us).

Dude, there's nothing old fashioned about balance within football. There are two basic stated aims, or possibly one, just phrased differently - score more than your opponent and concede fewer (apart from a nil-nil, obviously). Simply put, you have to be able to defend well as well as attack well, and you have to balance both out, so both exist side by side, and not have one being to the detriment of the other.

This should be 'Granny sucking eggs' stuff to any coach.

You can't just rely on everything clicking with the attack every single game. There are sensibly too many variables that can go wrong, or not in your favour for that to happen.

You have to be able to grind out or hang on for a result sometimes. When the goalkeeper's having a world class day, when the woodwork appears to keep moving, when individual defenders and collective defences are just having one of those incredible, well above par days, or even luck plays a part sometimes.

We don't look like we do any sort of defensive work within training. We look clueless as to how to do even the basics. It looks as though the last time any of our defenders, and even midfielders, did any sort of defensive routines in training, was when they were all with their individual previous clubs and it was done within the individual requirement of those clubs' own needs and requirements.
There looks nothing 'collective' at all about any aspect of the defensive side of the game.

The last time we as a team looked like we had been drilled and organised was the half season Dalglish was in caretaker charge and trying to earn a permanent position, when he had Steve Clarke alongside him.

Since then, from when Dalglish was actually appointed as  the 'permanent' manager, we've been hopeless, just hopeless.

Everyone can see it. The number of people, 'journalists', ex pros, ex Liverpool players and fans, can't all be wrong, but when you listened to Rodgers, and now to Klopp, they talk in terms of each time being a sort of blip, having extenuating circumstances to explain it, as opposed to being part of a pattern, a body of evidence that clearly indicates a underlying and constant problem.

The only thing balanced at the moment is our goal difference - the attack has been as good as the defence has been bad, or vice versa.

The problem is I don't see any way it will change until Klopp's prepared to accept a problem exists - it's just going to remain an ongoing massive frustration for us.   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2017, 12:07:31 PM »
and come to think of it, he was awful in the international in between these two league games.


Thierry Henry said something quite telling after the transfer:

“You have to bring something on the table. I have been watching him (the OX) for a very long time and I still don’t know what he’s good at."

When we were linked I was hoping it was just 'media talk'. As a squad player I could have possibly felt OK, if it was a £10-£15M fee, but even then there would have been better use for that sum of money. Walcott's another. Big reputation or hype when young, but just hasn't developed or pushed on. Maybe whatever was the cause of the hype was actually the sum of their development and they did it all at an early age, but it was only enough to show 'promise' within the context of them being a young player.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2017, 01:45:40 PM »
From: http://www.empireofthekop.com/2017/09/11/klopp-explains-his-angry-dressing-room-rant-v-man-city/


“We had then these clear moments and then it’s one goal [conceded], forget it, it can happen, but the red card gave them [the advantage].


Writing off concession of a goal, any goal, as "forget it, it can happen" makes no sense to me. You have to ask why?. Could we have avoided it? What should we have done differently? Can we learn from it and avoid it in future, but "forget it, it can happen", as though it's unavoidable, is just flat out wrong.   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2017, 07:03:43 PM »
Jurgen Klopp must address defensive inconsistency at Liverpool - Steven Gerrard

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/644663/Steven-Gerrard-Jurgen-Klopp-Liverpool-vs-Sevilla

"“There’s been a bit of inconsistency,” he said on BT Sport.


Ha. A bit of inconsistency.  He's either forgotten what it was like to play in a team than can defend, and hence what defending should look like, or he's truly a 'company man'.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2017, 10:09:15 PM »
it illustrates the big problem that I have with ex-players acting as pundits - and not genuine journalists.

Gerrard is employed by a  club - and thus how can he be a genuine TV pundit.

one cannot serve two masters.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2017, 06:05:35 PM »
Liverpool 1 Burnley 1

like watching a cat play with a lizard.

often one too many touches, lots of possession, often the build-up too slow and deliberate.....meanwhile Burnley without much effort, caused mayhem when they got near our goal....and had a handful of clear cut chances.

dire defending for their goal....klavin ball watched, leaving a man behind him to score.

same old, same old.

zero balance - and nobody on the bench gives a rat's a.r.se.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2017, 12:00:22 PM »
dire defending for their goal....klavin ball watched, leaving a man behind him to score.

same old, same old.


Trent gets beaten in the air with the long ball, though he did seem to mis-judge the flight somewhat and get himself under the ball, rather than maybe take a step or two back and then be able  to 'attack' the ball properly.

Klavan, seeing that Matip was challenging Wood for the second needs to drop off his partner to deal with the ball should Matip not win the header, and in any case, should have been aware of Arfield and picked him up or been ready to, depending on the outcome of the Matip/Wood header.
Robertson should have also got back in there and covered his centre half (Klavan), when Klavan got drawn to the ball, and would have been there to pick up Arfield, who Klavan had left.

With all the chopping and changing of the back four and goalkeeper, there's no understandings or consistency of working together, but neither are individual players reacting to, or reacting correctly to 'moments' in the game as moves develop. The three parts of the Burnley goal highlight it perfectly.

Then what was Can doing back near his own goal line, 'challenging' Klavan for a ball, when there's no Burnley player near, and then from the resulting corner, Mee isn't picked up at the far post, and again, seconds later, the exact same mistake is made again.

They seem unable to know what to do in the first instance and then are unable to understand what was done wrong, learn from it and correct it.

Amateur Youth team players on a Saturday and Sunday are more clued up about the 'nuts and bolts' of defending.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2017, 11:46:29 PM »
Thankfully the FA Cup 3rd round isn't until January, so our season can't quite be over by Christmas.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2017, 02:46:37 PM »
Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp facing potential defensive injury problems with Dejan Lovren and Joel Matip doubtful

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-news-injury-lovren-matip-emre-can-leicester-jurgen-klopp-a7959376.html

So considering how many games they missed between them last season, and despite that Klopp felt no need to add to the ranks, and even let Sakho and Lucas go, so I guess for him, this is no reason to worry.

As for the rest of us mere mortals..........................

And then for Tuesday, just when you thought it couldn't get any worse:

"If both Matip and Lovren miss Saturday's match, Klopp will hope at least one can return before his side's Champions League group game against Spartak Moscow on Tuesday.

One of the pair's potential stand-ins, Gomez, is suspended for Liverpool's next European game following his sending-off against Sevilla.
"

James Milner better get some practice in and convert from left back to centre half.

Car Crash F.C
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 02:50:18 PM by Tes »
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2017, 11:09:01 PM »
no balance

no new defensive players bought in the summer

no effort to fix clear ongoing defensive issues

and making 7 and 8 changes to our line-up each game, thus no building of understanding

what could possibly go wrong?   :( ??? :-X :-\
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2017, 01:59:21 PM »
no balance

no new defensive players bought in the summer

no effort to fix clear ongoing defensive issues

and making 7 and 8 changes to our line-up each game, thus no building of understanding

what could possibly go wrong?   :( ??? :-X :-\

Professional players shouldn't switch off from a throw in, but to lessen the chance, then it needs drilling in with regular practice.

Everything is disjointed.

Surely if we're to play such an attacking style then the most important aspect is that the defenders can defend, first and foremost. Surely a centre half can make a 10 yard pass, rather than being able to bring the ball out, beat a man or two and then lay it off.

If we're going to utilise full backs as wide attackers, then it has to be one at a time, not both racing forward, and a defensive midfielder (at least one) to sit and protect whatever's left of the back four when possession is lost.

Harry Maguire (coincidentally now at Leicester) from Hull or Michael Keane (who went to Everton from Burnley) would both have been worthy acquisitions. Both 'proper' defenders.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2017, 09:05:54 AM »
Good to get back to winning ways, but we are just far too open, at all times.

Surprisingly (or not) there's so little being mention about the very obvious foul on Mignolet for their first goal, which somehow wasn't seen or given, and then contrast that with the penalty, where Mignolet connects with the ball first, and Vardy just continues with his run in a straight line, through Mignolet's follow up and down he goes.

Mignolet was unlucky with Vardy's goal, that his save landed on Vardy's head, but why was a player of Vardy's quality, left unmarked to head in? Mignolet got no protection yet again from his defenders.

Can yet again nearly gave away a goal with a sloppy, misplaced pass, and he needs to bust a gut more to get himself back into a defensive position when play breaks down. You see no real effort from him to get back.

Well done to Coutinho, who seems to have put his 'disappointment' behind him, but for Fowler's sake, get another agent. He's too good a person to be corrupted by his snakes of agents.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #59 on: September 24, 2017, 09:31:34 PM »
Surprisingly (or not) there's so little being mention about the very obvious foul on Mignolet for their first goal, which somehow wasn't seen or given, and then contrast that with the penalty, where Mignolet connects with the ball first, and Vardy just continues with his run in a straight line, through Mignolet's follow up and down he goes.

Mignolet was unlucky with Vardy's goal, that his save landed on Vardy's head, but why was a player of Vardy's quality, left unmarked to head in? Mignolet got no protection yet again from his defenders.

Can yet again nearly gave away a goal with a sloppy, misplaced pass, and he needs to bust a gut more to get himself back into a defensive position when play breaks down. You see no real effort from him to get back.

I am no fan of Can either.  He looks far too lazy most of the time - and - energy-wise - he looks more like a lad in his late 20s, not one in his early 20s. 

Depresses me how poor refs are.  I thought the ref had a nightmare yesterday.  At the start - they just brutishly stopped our break down the right.  Should have been a clear booking....nothing.  Then 5 minutes later they did the exact same thing down our near side (left).  Again, no booking.

As they have done previously, Leicester employed all the dark arts......do refs not watch Match of the Day in recent years?   Vardy fooled the ref into thinking Matip fowled him before half time....for a move that ultimately led to their first goal.  Vardy is going nowhere and is second to the ball - so he runs across the stride of our player and goes down.  Are refs thick?

And that subsequent foul on our keeper for that first goal.  Neither ref nor linesman could see the clear foul?  By the way - we really need Hendo and our lads to start shouting and giving off a lot more often.  We are far too nice. 

And for their second - I thought it was going to be a freekick to us.  Our keeper touches the ball - and their lad makes contact.  I think if the keeper goes through to clear the ball he will do serious damage to Vardy.  Thus he did well to pull out.  But Vardy goes down.

Refs really need to get up to speed. 

Overall, we won.  But I take little heart from it.  This type of unbalanced football has no future.  I imagine a lot of people in the industry are scratching their heads.




 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 09:34:12 PM by the dude abides »
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.