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Author Topic: Season 2017/18  (Read 37778 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2017, 11:01:59 AM »
Our keeper touches the ball - and their lad makes contact.  I think if the keeper goes through to clear the ball he will do serious damage to Vardy.  Thus he did well to pull out.  But Vardy goes down.

Refs really need to get up to speed. 


This is what I don't get either. Mignolet goes to kick the ball, makes full contact, and then the 'momentum' of a swing of the leg, which is required to kick a football, means he catches an opponent. Isn't it obvious that can and will happen many times on the pitch over 90 minutes. It's part of football being a contact sport.

Likewise with Vardy. He doesn't make any contact with the ball, yet runs into our player, whether it's just the leg on Mignolet's follow through, or another part of his body, thereby, surely that in itself is a foul. If you 'play the man' and not the ball, then that's a foul.
It's the same as when a forward leaves a leg out to make contact with the defender's leg, and then goes over, that's not a foul, or at least it shouldn't be, because at the moment the defender makes his leg movement, the attacker's leg wasn't there to be caught.

I don't know whether Mignolet pulled out (or at least was half hearted) through fear of damage to himself or Vardy, but if he'd have made full contact with the ball, the momentum of the kick would have still seen him make contact with Vardy, likewise if Vardy had have touched (as Mignolet did) the ball, he would have still then made contact with Mignolet. Would that have been a foul on Mignolet? Highly doubtful. In fact, that would have probably also been a penalty as Vardy (not Mignolet) would have touched the ball, and then made contact with Mignolet, and most probably have gone down, and Mignolet would have been punished 'for being there for Vardy to make contact with, and would have been regarded as stopping Vardy's progress'.

How many of these situations do we see outside the penalty area during the course of 90 minutes, and how few get awarded as a foul against the player who actually touched the ball?

Just like goalkeepers should do their homework on penalty takers, referees should also be aware of players, like Vardy, who 'buy' fouls or create a situation where they 'technically' get fouled.

As it's all supposedly about intent, then surely the intent 'to get fouled' should be regarded and considered just as wrong as the intent 'to foul', and if there is no intent to 'get fouled', then the lack of intent 'to foul', should be weighted equally too.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2017, 03:39:06 PM »
This quote made me laugh from Joey Barton, when responding to Klopp talking about being able to write a book on defending:

"they’ve got a Champions League attack…but they’ve got a Championship defence."
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2017, 10:39:26 PM »
How many of these situations do we see outside the penalty area during the course of 90 minutes, and how few get awarded as a foul against the player who actually touched the ball?

Just like goalkeepers should do their homework on penalty takers, referees should also be aware of players, like Vardy, who 'buy' fouls or create a situation where they 'technically' get fouled.

As it's all supposedly about intent, then surely the intent 'to get fouled' should be regarded and considered just as wrong as the intent 'to foul', and if there is no intent to 'get fouled', then the lack of intent 'to foul', should be weighted equally too.

absolutely.

refs need to be far more intelligent and clued in.

the same dark arts are being deployed by the same dark artists.....and refs are to blame for that.

do they not watch football highlights on TV - and see what certain players are up to? 

As you say, the intent to be fouled, and fool refs, should be identified.......and punished.

If refs are not up to the job on match day, then start bringing in retrospective punishment for the usual players.  Indeed, if i was at the FA, I would start asking specific refs about their performances.
 
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2017, 10:42:49 PM »
This quote made me laugh from Joey Barton, when responding to Klopp talking about being able to write a book on defending:

"they’ve got a Champions League attack…but they’ve got a Championship defence."

 ::)

it must be embarrassing for Klopp and his coaching team......to be laughed at and ridiculed.
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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2017, 05:34:37 PM »
Carlo Ancelotti sacked by Bayern Munich, with Jurgen Klopp among leading candidates to replace him

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/09/28/carlo-ancelotti-sacked-bayern-munich-jurgen-klopp-among-leading/

Surely not. Klopp off to Bavaria whilst Ancelotti arrives in L4?  ;D

Apparently, Rafa's been seen in a Geordie newsagent shop asking if they've got a copy of the Daily Post or Echo, meanwhile Pako Ayestaran has handed in his notice to Las Palmas stating he 'made a mistake' taking the new manager's job.  ;D

The plot it does a thicken.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 05:40:59 PM by Tes »
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Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2017, 11:47:10 AM »
Hey all,

Very frustrating stuff so far.

At the current rate we'll be conceding around 65-70 goals this season. We're too leaky at the back and not clinical enough up front and we have no midfielder with a defensive first mentality.

Tough game tomorrow but we should win and I hope Ox starts and Can is dropped.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2017, 10:33:35 AM »
Hey all,

Very frustrating stuff so far.

At the current rate we'll be conceding around 65-70 goals this season. We're too leaky at the back and not clinical enough up front and we have no midfielder with a defensive first mentality.

Tough game tomorrow but we should win and I hope Ox starts and Can is dropped.

'Ay up stranger'.  ;D

Totally agree. Frustrating is definitely the single word sum up.

Can has relapsed into what he's been most of his Liverpool career. He plays with an air of 'nothing to prove', yet every player should always be looking to prove they deserve to be picked for the next match.

Is Klopp capable of coaching the defensive side of the game, and if so, can he actually do what is required to turn it around?

Or is he like Rodgers in being wedded to an ideal way of player, that he is always striving to achieve, without the pragmatism that is sometimes required?

I know people say Mourinho is a defensive coach, but their goal difference hardly shows they win games 1-0.

Is it so bad to score a goal or two here and there during some parts of a match, and then in others, defend well and stop the opposition scoring, even if it means you let the opposition have position for periods. I'd say that was the ultimate control of the game. Score during periods of possession, hence breaking the opposition's attempts to keep you out, and then keep the opposition at arm's length when they have possession.   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2017, 11:19:38 AM »
Moreno admits lack of concentration is costing Liverpool

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at a headline like that. That Moreno can see it.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/moreno-admits-lack-of-concentration-is-costing-liverpool/1k7y80nbbbpp71sxl9dybuyb4j

These days a lot of football is based on attack-minded full-backs, but my instinct is first and foremost to defend.

 ;D or  :'(
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2017, 03:58:32 PM »
Is Klopp capable of coaching the defensive side of the game, and if so, can he actually do what is required to turn it around?

Or is he like Rodgers in being wedded to an ideal way of player, that he is always striving to achieve, without the pragmatism that is sometimes required?

embarrassing times for Klopp.

he is being badly shown up for the limited coach that he is.

he's had so long to strengthen our defence - but has not done so,.

he has nlo interest in a balanced side.....it;s attack attack attack.

his tactic is simple - OUTSCORE

there is no future to this madness.  There can never be progress under such a nutty 'strategy'
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2017, 04:03:28 PM »
Sturridge either needs to be played or sold. Anywhere in between is pointless.

If he played regularly, surely we can afford to let him off chasing and pressing all over the place, just close down the nearest defender if he receives the ball.

If played regularly, alongside Salah, Mane and Coutinho, surely he'll regain his rhythm and touch and his finishing will come back.

Yes, there's a system Klopp plays, but if you want players to perform to their best, then you have to play to their strengths.

We could easily incorporate him.

1. In Klopp's 4-3-3 - with Salah and Mane either side and Coutinho behind.
2. 4-4-1-1 - with Firmino playing off, then 2 from Salah, Mane, Coutinho in the 'wide' positions. If Coutinho plays on the left, cutting in, he has either Moreno (yes, I know) or Robertson going 'outside'. Some rotation keeps Salah, Mane and Coutinho fresh, and it gives us two in central midfielders to make up for the left back being forward on the overlap more often to provide width, and Firmino soon drops into a more midfield role as soon as possession is lost.
3. 4-2-3-1 Sturridge can bring others into play, have Coutinho or Firmino, whoever plays in the centre of the '3' even going on beyond, or drop in centrally as Sturridge pulls out into an 'inside forward' position as he sometimes does.

Or, all of 1,2,3 can also be used to show how maybe he doesn't fit in, with the players we've got, in particular, Coutinho and Firmino, and to a lesser degree, Salah and Mane, and therefore sell him, and bring in someone (I don't know who) better suited to playing in combination with those four.   
 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #70 on: October 02, 2017, 04:22:33 PM »
embarrassing times for Klopp.

he is being badly shown up for the limited coach that he is.

he's had so long to strengthen our defence - but has not done so,.

he has nlo interest in a balanced side.....it;s attack attack attack.

his tactic is simple - OUTSCORE

there is no future to this madness.  There can never be progress under such a nutty 'strategy'

I don't get how a straight pass through the middle causes so much trouble. As a centre half pairing, playing against 1 forward, you have a 'man marker' (Lovren), and a free man (Matip) to cover in behind his partner when Lovren fails to win the ball/cut out the pass to the player he's marking. That combination of roles suits the individual players.
I think one of the problems is that they're tempted to be less compact as a pair, leaving greater distance between each other, as they've got half an eye on having to be prepared to go out to wider positions (which centre halves generally hate) due to the fact that both their full backs are so high up the pitch, and there's no proper cover for the space (or acreage) behind the full back from a midfielder coming across.

It feels like Klopp has a philosophy which he may be able to explain in theory, but that doesn't seem to translate into a workable reality on the pitch.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #71 on: October 02, 2017, 04:35:38 PM »
Liverpool ready to put things right in Manchester United test - Mignolet

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/liverpool/story/3219246/liverpool-ready-to-put-things-right-in-manchester-united-test-simon-mignolet

Can't our players just shut up, and do their talking through the team's performance(s).
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #72 on: October 02, 2017, 04:46:53 PM »
The knives a really out for Klopp:

Liverpool must sack Jurgen Klopp and hire Carlo Ancelotti while they can

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/649229/Liverpool-News-Jurgen-Klopp-sacked-Carlo-Ancelotti-Anfield-Premier-League-Latest

And to a lesser extent:

Liverpool's stasis runs deep - it's vital Jurgen Klopp uses the international break to remedy this

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-latest-analysis-jurgen-klopp-problems-run-deep-international-break-a7978866.html

The Liverpool virus, gegenpressing disappears and is Klopp losing it?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-virus-gegenpressing-disappears-klopp-13706409
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2017, 06:28:58 PM »
I don't get how a straight pass through the middle causes so much trouble. As a centre half pairing, playing against 1 forward, you have a 'man marker' (Lovren), and a free man (Matip) to cover in behind his partner when Lovren fails to win the ball/cut out the pass to the player he's marking. That combination of roles suits the individual players.
I think one of the problems is that they're tempted to be less compact as a pair, leaving greater distance between each other, as they've got half an eye on having to be prepared to go out to wider positions (which centre halves generally hate) due to the fact that both their full backs are so high up the pitch, and there's no proper cover for the space (or acreage) behind the full back from a midfielder coming across.

It feels like Klopp has a philosophy which he may be able to explain in theory, but that doesn't seem to translate into a workable reality on the pitch.

because we are playing so far up the pitch.....there is no room for error....and one simple ball can leave our defence in ruins.

our problems are not primarily personnel based....they are structural.

Klopp's whole approach to football is flawed.

The key to football is balance.  Klopp, like Keegan, clearly doesn't see it like that.  Our midfielders are running around like headless chickens, trying to always push forward.  Klopp clearly thinks our issues are all about too big a gap between the lines....thus he wants our defenders to push forward, getting closer to Hendo and co.  It's madness.  It;s no wonder opponents can suck us in and break with one through ball.

On a different topic - I think Klopp is in danger of losing some of his players.  The tirade and anger by Klopp aimed from the touchline at Hendo does not augur well for the future.   I would be livid as a player giving my all, to be shouted at by Klopp, in these circumstances, who doesn't know how to fix problems.   I saw similar last season with Klopp at Milner.

On another topic, I think we will play a lot better when Lalalama is back.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2017, 05:47:22 PM »
Klopp's Dortmund team was one of the most balanced teams around, so it isn't like he is a keegan like manager who just attacks, but he has seriously underestimated the ability of his defensive players.