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Author Topic: Season 2017/18  (Read 35824 times)

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2017, 07:14:09 PM »
this madness cannot go on.

we are probably breaking all premiership records regarding highs and lows

we are hammered for 5 by city...we beat maribo by 7.....spurs put 4 past us

this is madness.

we need a manager who knows what he is doing.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2017, 10:44:25 PM »
Probably the worse collection of defensive mistakes strung together all in the same game, by any collection of players that has worn the Liverpool shirt, certainly in my memory.

Just when you think it can't get any more embarrassing, they stoop lower yet.

Either Klopp doesn't know how to change it, or he's unable to even begin to get it across to his players, if he does.

Ward now deserves a run in the team. 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #92 on: October 23, 2017, 12:50:48 PM »
It's amazing and depressing all rolled up together. Instead of examining what Lovren did wrong, and how it should and could have been done better, all the media stories are about what he's done with his instagram account.

Really. WHO CARES, really.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #93 on: October 23, 2017, 01:29:18 PM »
Spurs are capable, at the present time, of giving anyone a hiding.

So we have to take our hats off to them for their performance.

And Lovren does not deserve to be hung out to dry....nor Matip, nor Mignolet.   

In the modern era, with the quick communication possibilities of social media, there seems to be witch-hunt inflation.  As someone said this weekend, thank goodness there wasn't social media around 100 plus years ago in Alabama, and the southern states (otherwise there would have been a lot more lynchings).  I can empathise with the lad - and him taking down his instagram stuff.  It must be so frustrating - unable to defend yourself in the media, against all the abuse.  All he is left with, having no bullets to fire, is defensive mode, circling the wagons.

For all we know, Lovren was told to get in front of Kane....to get to the ball before it arrived at his feet. 

The bloke who has been the ringmaster of this ongoing circus, is Mr Klopp.

Every pundit seems to blame it all on personnel - and that us missing out on Van Dykt in the summer, has apparently led to this madness.  Rubbish.  The issue is structural.  The issue is one of team balance. 

Any pundit worth his salt would be asking where is the protection for our defence.  Where is the sweeper.  Mr Klopp needs to answer those questions.


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #94 on: October 23, 2017, 01:40:41 PM »
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/bernardo-silva-find-out-monday-11390023

Burnley boss Sean Dyche was sceptical of the penalty decision and said of Silva: “For him to get that high off the floor with his arms above his head is almost a skill in itself. I was quite impressed with how far he travelled."

“If I kicked my kid in the garden, I don’t think he’d fall like that, so it was a moment where there has to be a bit of honour within the game where you go ‘OK, he has caught me, but it’s not enough’.”

City have enough quality without diving all over the show.  That breakthrough penalty in the first half made their life easier.

I don't have much time for the regular antics of their other lad, Leroy Sane.   Officials need to clamp down on such carry on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhywhfGWaUA
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2017, 03:25:24 PM »
Things are bad.  Even Djimi Traore is having a go.    ??? ::) :P

Midway through the first half, Traore tweeted:

“No way you can win trophy with that defense, come on LFC wake up”.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2017, 05:10:04 PM »
I have been suspecting for many weeks, that Klopp is in danger of losing the faith of senior players in the dressing room.  Maybe it has already happened.  Senior players won't forever allow themselves to be scapegoats for idiotic tactics.

I saw Milner last season - Hendo this season.  Lovren, Matip, Countinho, Ferminho, Mignolet.

The King has no clothes. 

The wares of the snake-oil salesman have been caught on.   

If a manager comes into your club, and dictates that the key to being a top club, is building from the front, and possession play, then it's time to recruit a new manager. 

Despite coming to a club with a record of a poor defence, in his two years at the helm, Klopp has only recruited one defender that gets a regular game. 

Last season, we at least had a great record against the top clubs.  This season even that has changed.  It seems the top clubs now have our boss sussed out.  Just let Liverpool have endless possession, and hit them hard on the counter.  Indeed, just dink the ball over our defence, and more often than not, you will score.

Klopp's time is up.  Though he may go far in the champions league, I suggest that last season's 4th place finish, will be the highest  he ever achieves with Liverpool.  Van Dijk is not the answer, a top manager is the requirement.   I'd be privately speaking with Benitez and Ancelotti, with a view to taking over in May.

Indeed, I would love to have had the Spurs boss in the Liverpool dugout.  I suspect he will end up at Old Trafford.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2017, 06:59:00 PM »
What us and our rivals have spent on defence in last two years:

City - £180m
Chelsea: £109m
Spurs - £71m
Utd - £61m
Liverpool - £12m (£0m on players that start)

When will you realise the problem is not Klopp but FSG.

I believe that Klopp has put too much faith in certain players in the belief that he can improve them. This has clearly failed.

He clearly wanted a centre back but it's not his fault the way we completely bombed the Van Dijk deal that lays squarely on FSG and Michael Edwards.

However the lack a plan to find an alternate is the fault of everyone at the club.

But look at our net spend and you'll soon realise that with £30m net spend in each of the past few seasons we can only go so far.

Hark back to Rafa (FSG will never hire Rafa btw and I mean never) all you want but he'd encounter the same issues in terms of net spend issues.

As said when we appointed Jurgen that he'd damage his reputation here and it is proven correct unfortunately. As long as FSG hold the purse strings we will continue to be a sell to buy club.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2017, 07:14:42 PM »
I could see why Klopp looked at some players and thought there is a realistic possibility that they could kick on this season while approaching their peak years and show that after all the work he's done with them they would now be good enough for our ambitions - it would probably be the way he shows that not everything is about buying players.

However some of these players have gone the other way this season and I refuse to believe that a genuine winner like Klopp would make a mistake like Wenger and choose loyalty to these players instead of brutal desire to improve upon them as they were given more than enough chances to show they can do the job we hoped they could do.

It's clear now that this will be a transitional season in which we'll have time to identify players who could truly help our attack and make a genuine push for the title next season. We're not that far away if we show determination not to tolerate mediocrity of some of our defenders.

Surely the penny has dropped and Klopp will have to reevaluate some of his assessments.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 07:15:53 PM by Edward224 »

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2017, 08:44:55 PM »


Ex-Liverpool man Peter Gulacsi voted best keeper in Germany

FORMER Liverpool man Peter Gulacsi has been named best goalkeeper in the Bundesliga so far this season to heap yet more misery on Reds fans.

full story and video of saves at:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/654543/Liverpool-news-Peter-Gulacsi-best-goalkeeper-Bundesliga-saves-video
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2017, 09:05:57 PM »
What us and our rivals have spent on defence in last two years:

City - £180m
Chelsea: £109m
Spurs - £71m
Utd - £61m
Liverpool - £12m (£0m on players that start)

When will you realise the problem is not Klopp but FSG.

when we genuinely had bad owners, namely the Toxic Yanks, Rafa had peanuts to spend in his two final seasons.

2008/09 net spend: £2 and a half million

2009/10 net spend: £10,000  (that's right - ten thousand pounds net)

Jurgen, on the other hand, has had major money to spend. 

But he seems to only want to recruit offensive players.  And the one lad he brought in for the defence, for 10 million quid, looks as if he has been already judged as not good enough (that's what it feel like anyway, from the outside, looking in).

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #101 on: October 24, 2017, 11:48:09 AM »
Things are bad.  Even Djimi Traore is having a go.    ??? ::) :P

Midway through the first half, Traore tweeted:

“No way you can win trophy with that defense, come on LFC wake up”.

That's class. The legend that is Djimi.

We just have to laugh, to find some light relief, otherwise we'll all go mad.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2017, 12:12:28 PM »
Surely the penny has dropped and Klopp will have to reevaluate some of his assessments.

Klopp makes assessments, based on which Klopp makes decisions. Ergo, Klopp shares in the responsibility.

There's been more than enough mention of the likes of Edwards, Hunter and Fallows and the methods and model (if there is one) of recruitment, to make it clear that Klopp is not completely to blame, and change to the whole recruitment process is far more vital and pressing than any individual signing that may be required.

That can not be done without some sort of input from FSG, obviously, so we're aware, more than aware, of the culpability of FSG in the whole picture.

Looking at the evidence, it's hard to totally accept that Klopp indeed is in total control, and I mean he has the first and last say in everything to do with which positions need strengthening, the names of the targets required for said positions, how many, who leaves etc, etc.

Who's decision was it to spend at least £35M on Oxlade-Chamberlain, when we were woefully short of the required quality at centre back last season, and with Sakho being sold (again, who's decision was that) and Lucas being allowed to leave, doing nothing, spending nothing, would very obviously leave us in an even more precarious position.

There seems to be no willingness to spend money on the defence and defensive side of the team. Klopp has brought in 4 players on the defensive side of things, for a total spend, not even nett spend, of less than £20M.

£25M on Wijnaldum alone. More than on the defence in total.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2017, 12:21:56 PM »
I refuse to believe that a genuine winner like Klopp would make a mistake like Wenger and choose loyalty to these players instead of brutal desire to improve upon them as they were given more than enough chances to show they can do the job we hoped they could do.

That's your opinion. Equally valuable as anyone else's, no matter how they may differ, but just an opinion.

Any manager, no matter his track record, can make mistakes. It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that Klopp, like many others at the club, like the players on the pitch, has made mistakes, had errors of judgement, placed too much faith, or even hope, in players and outcomes.

It's no one person's fault. It's a collective failing, both off the pitch and on it.

Klopp is not entirely at fault, but he's hardly blameless too.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: Season 2017/18
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2017, 12:37:33 PM »
And Lovren does not deserve to be hung out to dry....nor Matip, nor Mignolet.   

Exactly. If you freeze frame any part of any of the goals on Sunday, you can count numerous issues and errors.

There is a situation in each goal where there is an error by an individual that could be termed as 'pivotal', but if everything else was functioning properly, either we wouldn't have got as far as the error being able to happen, or the error wouldn't be pivotal, as the structure would have been there to sort it straight after.

Whilst all three mentioned made errors, I have a certain amount of sympathy with whoever plays at centre back or in goal. They're left exposed constantly. Their job made far harder than it could be. Any error is made more glaring and has a far greater effect on things.
It's got to affect their mindset, and ultimately their confidence. The errors were bad and shouldn't have happened, but they are being asked to do more than is sensible, and are in a position where they know everything they attempt is so crucial. That can make them act in a way they otherwise wouldn't if they felt protected, helped, that things were more in control.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.