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Offline Juan

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The Roy Hodgson Thread
« on: October 01, 2010, 10:12:10 PM »
I dont think a managerial appointment at LFC has caused so much debate and disagreement amongst fans than Roys appointment in July. Admittedly I wasnt one of those people who wanted the board to chose Roy especially when our greatest ever player Kenny Dalglish had put himself in to the running. Even without Kennys interest I felt Roy didnt have the track record of winning and there were many other managers out there that I would have held in higher regard.

That said Roy got the job and I think its only fair he gets some time. Off the field Roy speaks and conducts himself with respect and a dignity that I admire. On the field I havent been impressed with what he has done with the team to date. Time will tell whether hes out of his depth or not but he still deserves his chance. If new owners were keen to appoint their own man I would certainly feel sorry for Roy but if I were to be honest I wouldnt probably mind.

So seeing as Roys every word, team sheet and tactical change have been scrutinised to date I thought a thread on all things Roy would be appropriate. If you love, hate, worship Roy or just think his team lineup was genius I suppose this could be the place to say so.

Below is an article from the daily post to kick things off. Its not complimentary to Roy and at times its probably a bit harsh but on the whole I find myself agreeing with alot of it.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/liverpool-fc/2010/10/01/comment-liverpool-fc-needed-an-inspirational-figure-instead-they-got-roy-hodgson-55578-27381493/

Liverpool FC needed an inspirational figure... instead they got Roy Hodgson

Oct 1 2010 By Ben Thornley, Head of Sport

AFTER the manner in which Rafa Benitez’s  Anfield reign reached its conclusion this summer,  Liverpool needed a manager to re-energise the club and its  fans.

Instead, they got Roy Hodgson.

As bad decisions go, replacing the Spaniard with the Londoner was  like swapping Javier Mascherano for Christian Poulsen. Or  attempting to sign Carlton Cole as a "high quality" back-up for Fernando Torres.

Liverpool required an inspirational figure to light a fire under a club in the shadow of  its toxic American owners,  a motivator to realise the potential of a talented but underachieving group of players who stumbled to a poor seventh-place Premier League finish.

With so many key men known to be considering their futures and Champions League rivals Manchester City and Tottenham growing stronger by the season, a boss who could make an immediate impact should have been sought.

Not a   steady hand for hire whose last big job was 11 years ago at Inter Milan – and only then in a caretaker role –  and who had spent the best part of the last decade cruising towards retirement in Scandinavia.

Hodgson  is a fine coach but he  isn’t a Liverpool manager,  and already it is apparent he is horribly  out of his depth.

Indeed, when you hear the 63-year-old talk it takes a moment for it to register that he is Reds boss.

It’s not just the foreign accent of his two immediate predecessors that he lacks.

He has neither the arrogance or charisma of Gerard Houllier nor the unswerving self-assurance, pedigree and genius of Benitez – traits necessary to deal with the huge pressure that comes with  the Anfield job.

There are times when Hodgson himself appears to forget he’s sitting in one of the game’s most prized hotseats.

He often seems too modest and   almost embarrassed to say anything that would make him appear confident.

Certainly, some of his signings and transfer targets  suggest that Hodgson still thinks he is at Craven Cottage.

Hodgson is, however,  at least as defensively-minded as both Benitez and Houllier. Revealingly after last week’s humiliating home Carling Cup defeat to Northampton, Hodgson said that when his side went 2-1 down he had to "throw caution to the wind."

Liverpool were playing a struggling League Two side. At Anfield.

Caution shouldn’t come in to the equation.

Equally as unforgivable was Hodgson’s failure to defend Fernando Torres against Sir Alex Ferguson’s accusations of cheating, with the former Fulham boss more interested in preserving his friendship with the United manager than defending the reputation of a star player.

The Scot after all can only be pally with a manager he doesn’t perceive to be a threat to him – and there’s no danger of Liverpool challenging Manchester United this term.

Or even the top four.

After playing the likes of Manchester City, Manchester United and Arsenal so far this term, it has been suggested that the Reds are not as bad as the table suggests.

Liverpool, however, looked no more likely to beat Sunderland or Birmingham than they did the Red Devils or City.

It feels wrong to judge a manager so early and perhaps Hodgson does deserve more time to make his mark at Anfield, but there hasn’t even been a glimmer of hope that things will improve.

This side’s strength if nothing else has always been its resoluteness and organisation, yet despite taking an even more cautious approach than Benitez the defence appears shakier than at any time since the Roy Evans era. And for all the criticism of Benitez’s favoured zonal marking system, at least players contested set pieces.

It might be considered too un-Liverpool   to axe a manager so prematurely, going down an unwanted road  travelled by the likes of Newcastle.

Sometimes, though, it is braver to admit that you got it wrong in the first place.

How long to do you leave it? Until Christmas or the end of the season? Time is something the club don’t have.

Another season outside of the Champions League is likely to prompt the exits of Jose Reina and Fernando Torres.

And if it’s the same men brokering their moves away who negotiated the paltry sum for Mascherano, Liverpool won’t even be suitably compensated.

Even then would Hodgson – who paid £7.5m for Kevin Davies while at Blackburn – be the best man to spend the money?

Worryingly, he is already trying to reduce expectations at Liverpool by suggesting after the defeat to Northampton and the draw to Sunderland that the fans needed to lower their hopes for the forthcoming season.

Liverpool fans and their crazy ambitions of beating the Black Cats and the Cobblers at Anfield,  eh?

The last time the 18 times champions of England made such a poor start to the season was during Graeme Souness’ second term in charge.

Had David Moores moved as quickly to end the former midfielder’s disastrous reign as he did to accept Tom Hicks and George Gillett’s money, then maybe Liverpool’s title drought would not now stand at 20 years and counting.

Sticking by a manager is only noble if you have the right boss.  Nothing in the past nor present suggests Hodgson is.

The Souness years – from which the club has never recovered – showed what can happen if you keep faith in the wrong man.

It’s not as if there isn’t a ready-made replacement at Anfield in Kenny Dalglish, the man to whom the club should have turned  in the first place.

Instead, a  Liverpool board described by Benitez as knowing "nothing about football" made the mistake of going for the man of the moment, hiring Hodgson on the strength of one good season after forcing the Spaniard’s exit because of one poor campaign.

For now, though, the ownership issue is the most pressing challenge facing the club.

After all, the root cause of Liverpool's decline is a lack of investment in the squad for three years, exacerbated by a handful of poor transfer decisions by Benitez admittedly. Appointing Hodgson, however, has only accelerated the Reds' regression.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 12:21:27 PM »
I'm very reluctant to criticise him especially when he's only been in place for less than a dozen games. There are three areas that I'm concerned about.

  • He should always be playing 2 up front for home games irrespective of who we play.
  • Players should be played in their best positions. Ask them what they are if you're not sure and play them there. It gives them very little leeway f they don't put in a good performance.
  • He needs to make more substitutions if things are not going as planned. Manure did that very effectively midweek. He's an experienced manager. Well let's see that experience Roy!

If we don't beat Blackpool by 2 clear goals tomorrow then I will be concerned even more than I am already. Oh, and one final tip Roy. Don't sit on the bench with your head in your hands staring at the ground. It semds all the wrong signals to everyone and gives the opposition a boost. If you don't like what you're seeing implement Plan B. You do have a Plan B don't you Roy?  ::)
Cheers,
Ray



Offline barticus

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 01:54:53 PM »
I think it'll be pretty clear by Xmas if Roy can do the job or not...
too early so far and i seem to remember Rafa's first year was pretty shine-a-light...5th in the league...woeful cup performance.. but we then went onto win the Champions league...we haven't got that to *koff* fall back on this time...but i remember all the doom and gloom in that year...

if he's the man for the job then he'll adapt and we'll start to play like we should be....some big names might also be left on the wayside if he starts picking whats best for the club...
if some miracle happens and we get new owners, they will also judge roys' performance till xmas...they may even have a man they want who will then spend any monies wisely in january...

the clock doth ticketh....

Offline barticus

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 02:22:16 PM »
Oh and the one problem with Roy so far is about the players who havent played...letting Aquilani go was a monumental f*** up and not trying babel in his favoured strikers role as back up to torres being the two main ones...

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 02:24:28 PM »
I was curious what results we achieved back in 2004/05. Here's the first 7 results...

14/08/2004     Tottenham Hotspur    Away     D     1-1
21/08/2004     Manchester City    Home     W     2-1
29/08/2004     Bolton Wanderers    Away     L     0-1
11/09/2004     West Brom      Home     W     3-0
20/09/2004     Manchester United    Away     L     1-2
25/09/2004     Norwich City       Home     W     3-0
03/10/2004     Chelsea          Away     L     0-1

That's W3, D1, L3. Points 10 from 7.

This season it's this assuming we beat Blackpool tomorrow...

W2, D3, L2. Points 9 from 7.

Only slightly worse and our record against the top clubs was pretty much the same. But there's one big difference. Rafa was new to England whereas Roy has been here for years.

It's not so much the results as the performances. Pass and move is non-existent. Too many players receive the ball stood still. No wide players to deliver crosses. Tomorrow has to be a major improvement new manager or not.

Anyway, people are saying Roy has to be given time to get the players to play a different system but I see nothing different in the last few. Early on especially in Europe the play was much better but we seem to have regressed since then.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 02:42:42 PM »
Oh and the one problem with Roy so far is about the players who havent played...letting Aquilani go was a monumental f*** up and not trying babel in his favoured strikers role as back up to torres being the two main ones...

I don't think Aquilani was up to the rigours of our league but having said Ryan needs to prove he can play then he must be given a chance up front.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline barticus

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 03:18:03 PM »

Early on especially in Europe the play was much better but we seem to have regressed since then.


Absolutely..

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2010, 03:24:44 PM »
I'm very reluctant to criticise him especially when he's only been in place for less than a dozen games. There are three areas that I'm concerned about.

Thats a fair call ASI. I do agree with you to an extent. Nobody should be calling for Roy to go but I do think it its fair to analyse Roys performance to date both on and off the field. If we play terrible stuff I refuse to ignore that we played badly, likewise if Roy pulls off a tactical master stroke I will give credit where due. That said though no matter how badly or how well we play and how badly or well Roy performs his duties off the field he will certainly be given a bedding in period by the fans where I think criticism wont matter. If in 10 months time we are still criticising him for the same mistakes then I will be very worried.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2010, 03:33:10 PM »
Oh and the one problem with Roy so far is about the players who havent played...letting Aquilani go was a monumental f*** up and not trying babel in his favoured strikers role as back up to torres being the two main ones...

Agreed re Babel and Aquillani Bart. When you say your going to give him a chance in his favourite position then do it and dont just keep saying it. Hes given him until Christmas to make an impact up front but hes not going to be able to do that unless he gets game time.

As for Aquillani I think letting him go to Juve could be risky business. I thought he looked terrible in the opening games of the season and I understand we have probably got him off our wage bill. But if he doesnt get the games he needs at Juve and if hes not a success then he will come back valued at about 5 million and we wont have found out whether he can hack it in the Premier League.

Hes turning out to be one of Rafas biggest wastes of money. That said as a right back Glen Johnson is running him close at the mo.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2010, 03:50:39 PM »
I was curious what results we achieved back in 2004/05. Here's the first 7 results...

14/08/2004     Tottenham Hotspur    Away     D     1-1
21/08/2004     Manchester City    Home     W     2-1
29/08/2004     Bolton Wanderers    Away     L     0-1
11/09/2004     West Brom      Home     W     3-0
20/09/2004     Manchester United    Away     L     1-2
25/09/2004     Norwich City       Home     W     3-0
03/10/2004     Chelsea          Away     L     0-1

That's W3, D1, L3. Points 10 from 7.

This season it's this assuming we beat Blackpool tomorrow...

W2, D3, L2. Points 9 from 7.

Only slightly worse and our record against the top clubs was pretty much the same. But there's one big difference. Rafa was new to England whereas Roy has been here for years.

It's not so much the results as the performances. Pass and move is non-existent. Too many players receive the ball stood still. No wide players to deliver crosses. Tomorrow has to be a major improvement new manager or not.

Anyway, people are saying Roy has to be given time to get the players to play a different system but I see nothing different in the last few. Early on especially in Europe the play was much better but we seem to have regressed since then.

Interesting its all very similar with the start of Rafas reign.

Although its still a big 'if' we beat  Blackpool.

An ex Liverpool player made a comment the other night, not sure who it was but they said when ever they got the ball during their time the first thing you did was go forward and attempt to pick someone out. He said that he doesnt understand why when we get the ball its constantly going sidewards or back. I suppose thats back to the pass and move style that as you say we dont see anymore.

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2010, 06:53:18 PM »
I don't think Aquilani was up to the rigours of our league but having said Ryan needs to prove he can play then he must be given a chance up front.

I agree that if Aquilani was played as one of two holding midfielders or a deep lying playmaker would be more accurate, as that what Alonso was, he's get shredded every week. Likewise, if he were to play slightly further forward in a more traditional central midfield position, ala Terry Mac for example, same result. However, if he was played off Torres, in a more Bergkampesque role, playing between the opposition back four and midfield, linking with a midfielder coming from deep (means giving up the overly negative two defensive midfielders) and Torres ahead of him, looking to feed runs of players in wide positions also, I think we'd have seen a very good player.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2010, 10:28:48 PM »
Excellent post for retaining Aquilani Tes. You almost convinced me he would have been a success. Whether we will ever seem him don a red shirt again is anyone's guess.

But when I see sides like Manure and Spurs play two or three strikers and still manage to keep some cohesion then I think it's very unfair to play Torres up front on his own with little or no service. No wonder he looks so fed up.

Given Utd's 0-0 today I really think Roy has to be very attack-minded tomorrow and send out a team that will put the fear of God into Blackpool. If they see just Torres up front they will double man-mark him and he'll be frozen out. Then the tension in the stands will feed onto the pitch and we'll play rubbish football. If we win then we go into the top half. It's a vital game especially as Everton won today putting us into the relegation zone!

Heck, let's play Babel, Ngog and Torres. Who needs two holding midfielders against Blackpool? Just go for it Roy and if we concede 2 goals let's just go and score 3. That's Spurs and Manure's attitude. I'd love it to be ours.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ed

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2010, 10:30:10 PM »
Hmmm....Roy Hodgson...I think Dude summed it up well a while back with his post about Roy being a nice man, someone you'd want to succeed in life.....

Anyway NO top or even young and ambitious manager would have chosen our Basket Case club and the Poisoned Chalice that was the vacancy this Summer.....

So we got Roy and fair play to him for having the balls to accept the job!

Naturally there is concern (In particular the form of Torres!) and ideally he would have been given a rolling contract like he had at Fulham....

I think the ownership issue is far more important at the moment though!

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2010, 11:51:43 PM »
Just go for it Roy and if we concede 2 goals let's just go and score 3. That's Spurs and Manure's attitude. I'd love it to be ours.

Or Oldham Athletic under Joe Royal.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2010, 03:29:29 AM »
Roys feeling the pressure.

I can understand why Roy is teed off but one thing I have a serious problem with is when he says "I could not give a monkey’s whether we are 16th or 18th". He should give a monkeys. We are currently relegation fodder according to the table.  Three points later today will see us in to the top half but I take issue with Roys above statement, its disrespectful to the fans because they certainly care and they pay their hard earned cash to watch the team.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8038680/Roy-Hodgson-launches-strident-defence-of-his-start-to-life-as-Liverpool-manager.html


Roy Hodgson launches strident defence of his start to life as Liverpool manager
Roy Hodgson has launched a strident defence of his stuttering start as Liverpool manager, insisting he will not change the approach which earned him the job, dismissing concerns over his side’s league position and intimating his team have done little to suggest more should be expected of them than his former club Fulham.
 
Rory Smith

By Rory Smith
Published: 11:59PM BST 02 Oct 2010

Roy Hodgson launches strident defence of his start to life as Liverpool manager
Running out of time? Roy Hodgson has launched a strident defence of his stuttering start to life as Liverpool manager Photo: GETTY IMAGES

Hodgson, appointed by managing director Christian Purslow in July to replace Rafael Benítez, has overseen just one Premier League win in six games — though he remains unbeaten in Europe — after a series of mediocre performances and his side begin Sunday afternoon’s visit of Blackpool hovering just above the relegation zone.

Such a résumé is hardly the sort of start deemed acceptable at Anfield. Hodgson, though, is quick to scotch the suggestion that his style of coaching and philosophy of play is not suited to a club where expectations are so high and the staff at his disposal so high-profile.
 
“Unbelievable,” said the Liverpool manager, when asked whether his approach could be applied on Merseyside as effectively as it was in west London. “How many clubs have I had in 35 years? What do you mean, do my methods translate? They translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchâtel Xamax to the Swiss national team.

“The question is quite frankly insulting, I suppose. That question is suggesting something. To suggest that suddenly because you move from one club to another, the methods that have stood you in good stead for 35 years and made you one of the most respected coaches in the Europe suddenly do not work. I find it very, very hard to believe that someone has even asked me that question.”

He is equally scornful of the idea that Liverpool boast a different type of player, either in terms of technical ability or psychological needs, players who require a different form of coaching to his former charges at Craven Cottage. “What do you mean, ‘a different type of player?'” he asked.

“At the moment arguably one or two of the players that you are suggesting are very different to the Fulham players maybe are not playing any better than the Fulham players played. Journalists work on names and not on performances. You watch people play and you base your judgement on their name and not necessarily what they have actually done on the day of the game.”

If such remarks suggest Hodgson is starting to feel the pressure of life under the intense glare of attention which England’s most decorated club attracts, he insists nothing could be further from the truth, regardless of the apparent precariousness of Liverpool’s league position.

“I could not give a monkey’s whether we are 16th or 18th,” he said. “What bothers me is that we have only got six points and I would have liked a few more. But then I knew Manchester United and Manchester City were going to be tough, and I knew Arsenal with 10 men was going to be tough, so maybe six points is not so bad.

“[But] when you have six points from six games, you understand people are going to be making negative judgments. That is the way it is. Those things do not bother me. I have had two and a half wonderful years where nothing negative was ever said about me and my team. Now maybe people are saying negative things. It does not change anything.”

Such confidence will do little to quell the growing unease among Liverpool’s fans, though Anfield is famed for its enduring faith in those who inhabit the Boot Room. Hodgson, though, insists such concerns are borne of hopes heightened beyond realism.

“Expectations are very high,” he said. “You cannot live in a dream world of how wonderful it would be if every time one of our players got the ball, he raced past four defenders and smashed it into the net. That would be living in a fantasy world. That is not going to happen in plenty of games in Europe and the Premier League.

“I would accuse you of being unrealistic if you are suggesting we should doing what Arsenal, who have had the same team for the last six years, and Chelsea, who have just won the league, are doing. We finished seventh last season. I don’t understand why you are suggesting we should be comparing ourselves every day with Chelsea or Manchester United at this early stage of the season