The Roy Hodgson Thread

[Tes]

Oh sugar, didn't I mention something about judging me after 10 games.  Oh bollox, let's hope everyone forgets that!

Lucky for Roy that the media have. Conveniently?

It's up there alongside Rafa's guarantee of fourth place.

When was the last time we had a minus goal difference more than a third into the league season?

[Tes]

when we employed Roy, I had no great expectations re his managerial abilities.

It's akin to taking someone, who has spent all their working life since leaving school at 16 working behind the counter in the local corner shop, and appointing them as a regional manager of Tesco.

Dude, from what we saw of Hodgson previously I agree with you on every point. The whole way he's conducted himself has been a huge departure from previous form. Maybe the pressure's getting to him. If it is, you really have to question if he had the first idea what he was getting himself into when he took the job. And if he didn't, then why not?

[the dude abides]

It's akin to taking someone, who has spent all their working life since leaving school at 16 working behind the counter in the local corner shop, and appointing them as a regional manager of Tesco.

Dude, from what we saw of Hodgson previously I agree with you on every point. The whole way he's conducted himself has been a huge departure from previous form. Maybe the pressure's getting to him. If it is, you really have to question if he had the first idea what he was getting himself into when he took the job. And if he didn't, then why not?

but I now wonder if it is a huge departure, Tes.

all we got was a 30 second snippet on a saturday night highlights show.

perhaps Fulham supporters, and the local newspaper in that part of London, could tell a different story.

Roy's rants in these first three months, are the rants of someone who is in their final 3 months of employment at anfield.  I imagine, like you, that the huge pressure is causing much of it.  But didn't he expect this level of pressure?  What is there about the job that he didn't expect.

But John Henry is someone who I expect won't sit around and idly accept this level of performance. 

[Tes]

What is there about the job that he didn't expect.

In a way, finishing seventh brought with it even more pressure than if we had finished in the top four. He seems genuinely shocked by the level of scrutiny and by the fact that we should be looking to challenge for a top four spot as opposed to bobbing about in mid-table, relatively safe from any danger of being sucked into a relegation battle.

[the dude abides]

In a way, finishing seventh brought with it even more pressure than if we had finished in the top four. He seems genuinely shocked by the level of scrutiny and by the fact that we should be looking to challenge for a top four spot as opposed to bobbing about in mid-table, relatively safe from any danger of being sucked into a relegation battle.

yes, and you can even tell from his demeanour and the things he says, that he is not a winner.

he is a defeatist, an apologist.

he has lost each fight, before it even gets started.

excuses, excuses, excuses.

I don't think Roy could win a one horse race.

[Juan]

Its finally about time that Rafa is fired and this team of his is broken up.

Its just not fair that Roy has to keep selecting Rafa's flips and flops and if we had more Roy signings like Konchesky we could turn these away loses into draws in no time.

[Martinmarx]

Its finally about time that Rafa is fired and this team of his is broken up.

Its just not fair that Roy has to keep selecting Rafa's flips and flops and if we had more Roy signings like Konchesky we could turn these away loses into draws in no time.

Yeah, because N'Gog, Babel, Maxi and Lucas is sooo good. Don't you realise it doesn't matter what manager comes in, the material just isn't good enough to build a strong side. Too many mediocre player's been signed for too long time. THAT is the problem and I think it's just as well you lot realise it'll take years to get this right. If it was as easy as you make it out to be...

[Juan]

Yeah, because N'Gog, Babel, Maxi and Lucas is sooo good. Don't you realise it doesn't matter what manager comes in, the material just isn't good enough to build a strong side. Too many mediocre player's been signed for too long time. THAT is the problem and I think it's just as well you lot realise it'll take years to get this right. If it was as easy as you make it out to be...

Martin I just read your post in the other thread. You exclude Roy from blame and basically suggest that the players on the pitch are at fault. However you also suggest that some players are played out of position and some like Konchesky arent good enough. I hate to break this to you but players being played out of position and the purchase of Konchesky are both Roys fault.

You also say Stoke are a crap team. Again thats not true. I am actually very impressed by what Tony Pullis has achieved there.

You need to stop believing that the way we are playing this season is down to Rafa. Roy inherited a team with Reina, Gerrard and Torres. Most clubs in Europe would love to be able to name those 3 in their team each week. If Roy cant get the best out of them along with what else hes got thats his issue, nothing to do with Rafa. To suggest otherwise is a cop out and an attempt to absolve Roy of any blame. Its sounds like you are in denial with regard Roys performance as manager to date

[Martinmarx]

Then why couldn't Rafa get the best out of them last season? It's a bit rich to criticise Roy after having signed 3 players while Rafa spent 6 years on hundreds of millions on signing some 80 players of which a mere handful turned out good signings.

Other than that, I never said Roy didn't play any part in tonites pathetic performance. Just because I don't screm "sack him" as soon as we don't win doesn't mean I think he's above criticism. But tonite the defeat was very much down to the lack of attitude and quality among the players. I don't think we strung more than 4 passes together more than a couple of times. Is it Roy's fault Kuijt time and again failt to deliver a 3 metre pass, is it Roy's fault that Torres hoof it sideways across the field to a throw in instead of producing anything with 5 minutes to go. The number of unforced errors and basic mistakes was unbelieveable really. No manager in the world can affect this from the side line. Fact of the matter is we have a pisspoor squad and I don't think you can blame Roy for that as he never got the time nor funds to chance it. I'd much rather take a British player willing to run like Etheringham (who's a crap player really) than a flashy and posh Italian, Spaniard of Frenchman. No manager would do better with this crap.

[Tes]

So out of the starting 11 all 11 players have been capped by their respective countries. Some are well into double figures, whilst others even have amassed more than 50.  Countries like Brazil, Spain, Holland, Argentina and Portugal. I realise there's also Greece (former European Champions), Slovakia and England in there.

So are you saying the all those international managers were also mistaken when they handed out those caps? Quite a few repeat mistakes amongst the list.

[Martinmarx]

So out of the starting 11 all 11 players have been capped by their respective countries. Some are well into double figures, whilst others even have amassed more than 50.  Countries like Brazil, Spain, Holland, Argentina and Portugal. I realise there's also Greece (former European Champions), Slovakia and England in there.

So are you saying the all those international managers were also mistaken when they handed out those caps? Quite a few repeat mistakes amongst the list.

You forgot, "most in peripheral roles". Being an international is no guarantee you're a good enough player. In any case some players are better playing for their countries (Klose and Podolski) than their clubs, while others are brillitant at their clubs but never makes the difference for their national team (Ronaldo).

I'm not saying Roy is the man to lead this club to glory (and I never did), I just happen to think that for the last 12 years this club has been run by managers who never understood what it takes to build a challenging squad despite being handed hundreds on hundreds of millions to achieve that feat. Now, the problem with this is that it'll take a long time for this club to establish an identity, a spirit to base future challenges on. So, in a way, it's a two step process. First step is about founding an identity/spirit, then secondly challenge for honors. I think Roy may be a good choice for the first step. In any case the new identity this club so desperately need cannot be built with the current squad.

Some will always be blinded by that CL campaing refusing to realise Rafa, just like GH, actually went on decline after initial cup successes. It's not their fault they never understood what the English game is all about.

Tes, we're at least 5 years from challenging so screaming and kicking after Roy's removal will do little to change this fact. We need to focus on other things than winning titles. We pushed the inevitable ahead for us for too long, it's time to face the reality - we lost our identity in the early 90's and until we establish it we will continue to be found wanting. It wasn't any better under Rafa the last 3 seasons. We weren't any better the 08/09 season. We were as dull, lacklustre, disjointed what have you.

[Clem]

Martin the money issue is misleading. Rafa recouped an incredible amount on players and his net spending was never more than 20 million per season - far less than his rivals (and some teams considered not 'big four').  In the last four windows he was given no money to spend at all. None. He had to sell to raise funds. And he still finished above Chelsea and Abramovich's billions. Thats the measure of a great manager. Roy has inherited some dross players - but that is the fault of the G & H regime and the marketplace rafa was forced to shop at (and admittedly some mistakes by rafa).  The point about Hodgson's tenure is not his signings - the good and the bad- or his inherited squad - likewise- it s about how he selects, manages and forms a team with tactics and organisation on any given match day.  He asked to be judged on this. And look at this forum. He has been.

[the dude abides]

The point about Hodgson's tenure is not his signings - the good and the bad- or his inherited squad - likewise- it s about how he selects, manages and forms a team with tactics and organisation on any given match day. 

exactly.  Even if we had a rubbish squad, one would at least expect to see good organisation.....and some semblence of tactics.  Under Roy, we have been all at sea.

pi.ss up and brewery spring to mind.

[Tes]

You forgot, "most in peripheral roles". Being an international is no guarantee you're a good enough player. In any case some players are better playing for their countries (Klose and Podolski) than their clubs, while others are brillitant at their clubs but never makes the difference for their national team (Ronaldo).

I'm not saying Roy is the man to lead this club to glory (and I never did), I just happen to think that for the last 12 years this club has been run by managers who never understood what it takes to build a challenging squad despite being handed hundreds on hundreds of millions to achieve that feat. Now, the problem with this is that it'll take a long time for this club to establish an identity, a spirit to base future challenges on. So, in a way, it's a two step process. First step is about founding an identity/spirit, then secondly challenge for honors. I think Roy may be a good choice for the first step. In any case the new identity this club so desperately need cannot be built with the current squad.

Some will always be blinded by that CL campaing refusing to realise Rafa, just like GH, actually went on decline after initial cup successes. It's not their fault they never understood what the English game is all about.

Tes, we're at least 5 years from challenging so screaming and kicking after Roy's removal will do little to change this fact. We need to focus on other things than winning titles. We pushed the inevitable ahead for us for too long, it's time to face the reality - we lost our identity in the early 90's and until we establish it we will continue to be found wanting. It wasn't any better under Rafa the last 3 seasons. We weren't any better the 08/09 season. We were as dull, lacklustre, disjointed what have you.

Martin, nobody (at least not worth taking notice of) is talking about challenging, nevermind winning the Premier League title. Finishing second was a massive overachievement, the seasons before and season after proved that. Getting back into the top four, be it on goal difference on the last day of the season is the only target we can be even thinking about currently.
We made the point a lot during the '08/'09 season that we had to learn how to be challengers. Be up there constantly for several seasons, inching closer, establishing ourselves as credible challengers before we could realistically talk about taking that final step and finishing the season on top. Being on top at points during the season, only to finish the season below that position, is all part of that learning process.

You make good points, all of which have previously been discussed during previous seasons. I simply disagree with you that Roy is the man for anything at this club. He's never been at any club of worth long enough to build or forge anything. He's a jobbing football manager. 

[Ed]

I was afraid that this was going to happen, the fans made a call on Hodgson (can't remember was it post Everton, obviously a lot had made up their mind well before that!) pretty much as soon as the takeover went through he was surplus to requirements in many people's eyes. We got the mini revival, looked better than it actually was only because things were so bad. & now this! which was always a possibility....

What bothers me is that our identity is being eroded under Hodgson, I mean Liverpool under him stands for nothing IMO. It's difficult to know where we are going (are the problems sorted out now, does anyone know what the problems are/were?) and I fear this is set to continue. Other lesser teams just seem to get on with the business of winning football games, I mean Villa are a point ahead of us and lost their manager a week before the start of the season.