The Roy Hodgson Thread

[the dude abides]

  Quote from: Redman on Yesterday at 04:21:47 PM  <blockquote>  Spot on Dude, where are the fools that were screaming for Rafa's head at the end of last season? Disappeared up their own backsides by the look of it. Pope Pumpa*se now thinks that Roys appointment is inspired but that's only because he doesn't want to appear a hypocrite when screaming for Rafa to be sacked. We are in a very dire situation right now and I can see us losing 2 of the 3 up and coming matches. Folks were saying that we were 1 win off 4th place, well we're not now. I can see us being relegated this season. How many folk would have thought ManU would be relagated in the 70's? No club is too big to go down. At least Rafa had a game plan, Roy's like a fecking deer caught in the headlights, he hasn't got a clue and man am I p**sed 

Redman

p.s Did you or anyone else hear that fat f**kwit on SSN after the final whistle, Roy needs time, he's inherited Rafa's crap squad, Rafa's spent all the money etc etc the usual bile, I wanted to punch him in his know nothing fat face</blockquote>   
 
great to see you again, redman.
 
I didn't see the SSN thingie......I am still in the mountains of central america.
 
typical pope - black is white and left is right, in his world.
 
roy's not up to the task, I am afraid. 

[Martinmarx]

  Quote from: Martinmarx on Today at 06:41:54 PM  <blockquote>Like the nearly 40 millions he spent on an injury prone and unproven Italian and a right-back when the impressive Ngog and Voronin were our back ups to Torres? Not even Fergie would get that much to spend on such poor players. </blockquote>

Juan Sebastián Verón

PS - if you think Ngog and Veronin are Liverpool quality, then you truly are a troll.

Well, I don't but Rafa obviously did as he chose to spend nearly 40 million on Aquilani and Johnson rather than quality back up for Torres. It even had me declare we were out of the race in July before the season even started which, of course, had me declared a fool.

Was Seba bought the last 3 years? Please check again, son.

Me saying I think Roy's the right man to lay a foundation for Liverpool despite doubting he'll win the title for us is connected to the fact I realise, in contrast to many of you, how far from winning it we actually are. It'll take time and effort. It'll be a 4 year process at a minimum. I don't think Roy will last 4 years, but I do think that when he leaves the coming manager will reap the rewards sewed by Roy. That's what I'm trying to say. Try to listen to what I say instead of descending to petty and childish namecalling and we may actually have a nice conversation.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

like Hicks, you make up rubbish that rafa had a fortune to spend.......you claim that he bought badly.
on the contrary, rafa had limited funds and had to cut his cloth accordingly.

I want to pick up this point with you Dude. At the beginning of last season were we desperate for another striker to aid Torres. A lot of people recognised this. Not sure if you did. But what does Rafa do? Spends a club record for a RB on Johnson and circa £19M on Aquilani!! Sorry, but that was poor judgement.

We had a decent RB in Kelly who, despite playing well when he's stepped up to the plate, is still ignored by Hodgson as well as Rafa.

So on your two points above I would say he did buy badly and it was compounded because he had limited funds. We all know Ngog is a keen youngster with some potential but hardly a good partner for Torres.

Of course if he hadn't aliented Alonso he wouldn't have needed to buy Aquilani in the first place.

[Martinmarx]

I want to pick up this point with you Dude. At the beginning of last season were we desperate for another striker to aid Torres. A lot of people recognised this. Not sure if you did. But what does Rafa do? Spends a club record for a RB on Johnson and circa £19M on Aquilani!! Sorry, but that was poor judgement.

We had a decent RB in Kelly who, despite playing well when he's stepped up to the plate, is still ignored by Hodgson as well as Rafa.

So on your two points above I would say he did buy badly and it was compounded because he had limited funds. We all know Ngog is a keen youngster with some potential but hardly a good partner for Torres.

Of course if he hadn't aliented Alonso he wouldn't have needed to buy Aquilani in the first place.

Good post. Could any one in here name me one PL side in which Ngog would find himself a regular starter? I know I can't. Yet Rafa decided to play him as back up and Lucas as replacement for Xabi who he bullied away as the sociopath he is. But I'm sure that was Hick's decision as well. 

[Ageing Stick Insect]

Me saying I think Roy's the right man to lay a foundation for Liverpool despite doubting he'll win the title for us is connected to the fact I realise, in contrast to many of you, how far from winning it we actually are. It'll take time and effort. It'll be a 4 year process at a minimum. I don't think Roy will last 4 years, but I do think that when he leaves the coming manager will reap the rewards sewed by Roy. That's what I'm trying to say.

Sorry Martin, can't agree with you on much of that. He's got a set way of setting up his teams and won't change. That's why we continue to play poorly over nearly a dozen games.

That style may work for smaller clubs like Fulham and Blackburn but won't for Liverpool because we're expected to go out and win games as opposed to not losing them. Rafa was also guilty of that for large parts of his tenure but when he did let the team "off the leash" in the last few months of the 08-09 season we played some brilliant football.

I don't think Roy will be around in 4 years. In fact, I don't think he'll be around in 4 months. Some might argue he should be around in 4 weeks! One thing is for sure. The new owners will be looking at the results very carefully over the next few games and if we don't start winning they'll be taking advice on a replacement.

Sometimes in an office environment you see people promoted beyond their capabilities. I'm afraid this is a promotion too far for Roy decent man though he is. Those post-match comments yesterday were baffling and brought ridicule on him.

[Martinmarx]

Sorry Martin, can't agree with you on much of that. He's got a set way of setting up his teams and won't change. That's why we continue to play poorly over nearly a dozen games.

That style may work for smaller clubs like Fulham and Blackburn but won't for Liverpool because we're expected to go out and win games as opposed to not losing them.

We've played two thirds of a dozen. Try to be honest. The sooner you realise there's a difference between where you want this football club to be and where it actually is the sooner you'll be able to tackle this in a more mature manner. I don't say that in a patronising way, not at all. Although, you are the prototype of the fan genuinely believing it's just  a matter of getting the best merited manager in and, woosh, we'll win it like that. Wakey, wakey, that ain't how it'll pan out regardless of who we bring in. I think Wenger got it spot on when he said the fall from grace is rapid but the build up is a long and slow process. For more than a decade this club's been mismanaged by two inept managers. Inept in understanding what winning the PL is about. I credit both with being able to string together the ocassional cup run, though. If we really want to get back to the "Liverpool way" I don't think looking for a fancy and posh continental manager is the answer. This will take time mate, no matter who we bring in. We're not the club we once were I think a lot of people would be better off if they could accept that idea instead of venting unrealistic expectations to anyone willing to listen.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

We've played two thirds of a dozen. Try to be honest.

13 actually. 8 Prem, 4 Europa and 1 CC. And I'm always honest.

The sooner you realise there's a difference between where you want this football club to be and where it actually is the sooner you'll be able to tackle this in a more mature manner.

Well that attitude is going to win you friends! Perhaps you should find out more about people before you start criticising their opinions. You agreed with my post 30 minutes ago but now say I need to be more mature. Change your attitude. I don't mind you having a different opinion but please don't insult me.

I don't say that in a patronising way, not at all. Although, you are the prototype of the fan genuinely believing it's just  a matter of getting the best merited manager in and, woosh, we'll win it like that. Wakey, wakey, that ain't how it'll pan out regardless of who we bring in.

That's a sweeping statement! How many of my posts have you read? I'll tell you what. if you think RH is going to turn this team around then you are in a minority of one. I can't remember seeing a good word said for him since yesterday's comments. These players we have aren't bad players but they're playing a system that is patently wrong. No wonder they can't adapt to it.

For more than a decade this club's been mismanaged by two inept managers. Inept in understanding what winning the PL is about.

Inept is far too strong a word. You don't get to where they are by being inept. And they were both hamstrung by financial constraints. Not a problem at Chelsea, Manure or Arsenal. Could any of those managers won the PL with Liverpool and the funds we had? I don't think so.

We're not the club we once were I think a lot of people would be better off if they could accept that idea instead of venting unrealistic expectations to anyone willing to listen.

We may not be title contenders but neither are we relegation fodder but because of RH's tactics that is the reality now. It's not unrealistic to expect to win at home against Blackpool, Sunderland and Northampton. Or put pressure against Everton to make a game of it.

[Tes]

Again, I do not think Roy will ever win us the title. But then again, the title is at least 3-4 years away even if God himself would descend with Shanks and Sir Bob to his assistance. But I am confindent that Roy, if given time, will leave a foundation for a coming manager to benefit from. Of that I am sure. I just think the criticism is so without nuances, fairness or validity and it that respect I am ashamed to read some of the stuff on here and elsewhere.

Based on what, Martin? Genuine question.

No one (though there are some, though not on here) in their right mind is even contemplating a title challenge, nevermind expecting one.

[Martinmarx]

I retract the patronising words. Sorry, and I mean that. I'll shape up from now on.

We lost to lesser sides this season true, but we did the same under both Rafa and GH. Difference is both the latter had both time and money to transmit a gameplan. It didn't work. I stand by both GH and Rafa were inept in terms of buildning a title challenging side. Both failed massively despite being handed the title on a silver plate by our then rivals.

It's to early to judge Roy.

[Martinmarx]

Based on what, Martin? Genuine question.

No one (though there are some, though not on here) in their right mind is even contemplating a title challenge, nevermind expecting one.

Why then the kicking and screaming, why the reluctance to add nuance to the analysis of our situation and try to see the bigger picture, why dismissing Roy's gameplan before he even got an honest chance to transmit it to the squad? Not saying it'll happen but IF we win the next 5 games we'll probably be inside touching distance of 4th. I really really really think people are overreacting and Roy gets to pay the price for the failure of Rafa and GH.

[Tes]

Why then the kicking and screaming, why the reluctance to add nuance to the analysis of our situation and try to see the bigger picture, why dismissing Roy's gameplan before he even got an honest chance to transmit it to the squad? Not saying it'll happen but IF we win the next 5 games we'll probably be inside touching distance of 4th. I really really really think people are overreacting and Roy gets to pay the price for the failure of Rafa and GH.

This is starting to feel like the anti-Rafa/pro-Rafa stuff.

Honest question Martin, did you positively want Roy Hodgson to be the next Liverpool manager when you heard that Benitez had left?

You think people are overreacting, fine that's your opinion, but there are fans who didn't want Hodgson as manager before he was even appointed and they had their reasons. They hold a different opinion, different but equally as valid as yours. You do your argument no favours with all the attempted put downs of any opinion that differs from your own.   

[Martinmarx]

That's the point I'm trying to make, Tes. Whether I wanted him or Rafa or who have you is irrelevant - you just cannot say a manager is wrong (or right for that matter) on the back of 8 games. I mean, if personal preferences, rather than actual analysis that takes the broad perspective on things dictates how we reason, then any debate pertaining to be sensible is doomed. I got my fair chair of stick for criticising first GH and then Rafa, but that was on the back of several seasons where they proved themselves time and again the wrong persons to lead the on-pitch matters of the club. Rafa got 228 PL games as manager which had us ending up as 7th in the league, yet people were prepared to give him a vote of confidence whereas Roy doesn't even get 8 games before people are declaring him a failure. Where's the actual logic in that. You may find me on the barricades screaming and kicking for Roy's removal but it won't be until he actually got a fair chance to prove himself wrong, and he hasn't had that chance just yet.

[wittsy]

Why then the kicking and screaming, why the reluctance to add nuance to the analysis of our situation and try to see the bigger picture, why dismissing Roy's gameplan before he even got an honest chance to transmit it to the squad? Not saying it'll happen but IF we win the next 5 games we'll probably be inside touching distance of 4th. I really really really think people are overreacting and Roy gets to pay the price for the failure of Rafa and GH.

Don't think anyone would say sack Roy NOW but he is running out of time. Truthfully do you think we'll win the next two never mind five? He would keep his job if he won one and drew one but he has to get the team thinking they can do it and thats the problem.

That side on paper is a top six side and since he has used an almost identicle system to Rafa's why the bad results? He may turn it around and hope he does, but just can't see how he'll improve us in anyway.  Just what foundation is he going to set for future managers when he has very little vision or guts and his history says he's badly flawed.

Remember this, it's the worst start for eternity for a reason........ NO ONE has done that badly, even RB and GH with their "terrible" players.

One last point... how much harder is it to rebuild when your in the championship with less revenue and less chance of attracting a top manager or players ??

Basically it's down to Roy to turn this around in the next few games.... I really do hope he does, he's a gent.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

I retract the patronising words. Sorry, and I mean that. I'll shape up from now on.

Thanks. Perhaps we can start again.

We lost to lesser sides this season true, but we did the same under both Rafa and GH. Difference is both the latter had both time and money to transmit a gameplan. It didn't work. I stand by both GH and Rafa were inept in terms of buildning a title challenging side. Both failed massively despite being handed the title on a silver plate by our then rivals.

Yes, we have lost to lesser sides under GH and RB but it's the nature of the defeat that is important. Take Everton this season. Most commentators were saying they were playing better than their league position suggested. That was borne out when they won at Birmingham and yesterday. In comparison, everyone has criticised our playing style and that's from Alan Hansen and Henry Winter and Rory Smith (both Telegraph reporters) who all know a great deal about football.

And I've also heard on Radio5Live and BBC MoTD / MoTD2 the same comments that Roy appears "out of his depth". Take yesterday. We went 2-0 down before the 50th minute but it took nearly 20 minutes before he made a substitution. Why? Because I honestly think he didn't knew what to do. He could be seen taking to Sammy Lee who shrugged his shoulders. Roy has to have the nouse to know what to do and I don't think he does.

We played 4-4-2 away at Man City and then play 4-5-1 at home to Sunderland. His tactics are a nonsense. I want him to suceed. I was open-minded when he arrived but a manager can only be judged by his results and he's clearly not delivering.

I still don't agree with your use of the word 'inept' to describe GH's and RB's efforts to win the PL. Finishing 2nd is not inept. After the 1-4 win at Manure we won 8 out of 9 games and only missed winning the title because of Manure's lucky win over Aston Villa. On such small things are titles won or lost.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

I have one other criticism of Roy. A few weeks ago he gave a clear public signal to Ryan Babel that he had until January to prove himself. Since then he hasn't started a single game and his total time on the pitch is no more than 45 minutes.

Has he forgotten what he said? You have to give the lad a chance because despite his many faults he is young, strong and has a decent shot. Time to give Babel a chance on Sunday I think but sadly, I doubt he will.