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Author Topic: The Roy Hodgson Thread  (Read 132942 times)

buck

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #135 on: October 18, 2010, 10:28:02 PM »
How is Roy laying down the foundations for the future when two of the players he signed are either close to 30 or past 30?  I can appreciate your support of him but will you still support him when come Christmas we are in the bottom three? 

Clem

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #136 on: October 18, 2010, 10:37:30 PM »
I hate to say, and never said it before even under souey, but I'm beginning to hope we lose against blackburn - and however more teams it takes for the board to wise up and spot the square peg in the round hole. I hated he idea of Roy taking over from Rafa, so I know I am a bit biased against him, but every time I watch the shapeless, dispirited quagmire sitting immobilised in the middle of pitch (the whole team that is, not just Poulson) and listen to his geriatric ramblings afterwards that try to convince me that as a Koppite I am honoured to be mismanaged by him, I just want to tear out my eyes and stick them down my lugholes. Its the only way I can make him go away. But then I just end up brooding on it all. What I am saying (I think!) is - has anyone else got to the point where you want us to lose just to get shut? I really am getting there...as this rant clearly shows!!

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #137 on: October 18, 2010, 10:51:26 PM »
I hate to say, and never said it before even under souey, but I'm beginning to hope we lose against blackburn - and however more teams it takes for the board to wise up and spot the square peg in the round hole. I hated he idea of Roy taking over from Rafa, so I know I am a bit biased against him, but every time I watch the shapeless, dispirited quagmire sitting immobilised in the middle of pitch (the whole team that is, not just Poulson) and listen to his geriatric ramblings afterwards that try to convince me that as a Koppite I am honoured to be mismanaged by him, I just want to tear out my eyes and stick them down my lugholes. Its the only way I can make him go away. But then I just end up brooding on it all. What I am saying (I think!) is - has anyone else got to the point where you want us to lose just to get shut? I really am getting there...as this rant clearly shows!!

Hi, Clem and welcome. I don't regard it as bias. It's hard when a lot of us didn't want him (nothing personal) as there was nothing to suggest in his whole career that he would be the right appointment.
Unfortunately, nothing we've seen has made us think otherwise.

We see the evidence before our eyes. We see the evidence in his CV, in the sorts of clubs and countries he's managed, the realistic expectation levels of each of those individual teams and the achievements, or lack of, depending on the team, that he had with those teams.
He's a certain kind of manager for a certain level of team. It's what he does, and does it reasonably well. He's had successes given the context.

I understand your frustration. Frustration and wonderment as to why he was thought suitable in the first place and frustration that it is going the way we dreaded it would. Frustration, despite the desire to be proved that our feelings were misplaced, that they haven't been proved wrong and despite the manager's protestations to the contrary, that they don't look like being proved wrong. 
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 10:56:48 PM by Tes »
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Clem

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #138 on: October 18, 2010, 11:02:43 PM »
cheers, tes - well said. Agree all that.

subsy

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #139 on: October 18, 2010, 11:30:58 PM »
Right ASI, with you totally.... it's not the fact that we're losing, it's the manner in which we're losing, and the managers inability to react to the changing dynamics during a game. Instead he seems to just be blank, almost ostrich like with head in the sand.... ignore it, and maybe it will fix itself... unfortunately watching Woy at the weekend and seeing the look of utter bemusement on his face reminded me very much of how dubya looked when he was sat in that classroom when he found out that a plane had just hit the twin towers.

I'm very worried that the longer he remains in charge the further down the spiral we will slip.
Poor performances driven by managerial decisions void of any tactical acumen, diminishing morale, wasted money on average at best players... none of it bodes well.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #140 on: October 18, 2010, 11:32:55 PM »

It's incredible really people do not see the damage done to this club for over a decade by GH and Rafa. Even more incredible is the fact people somehow think it'll be fixed inside 8 games with 2 international breaks, new manager, players and the hardest fixture list since John Holmes took up his acting career.


Martin if you call the Worthington the Cup 2001, FA Cup 2001, UEFA Cup 2001, FA Charity Shield 2001,  UEFA Super Cup 2001, Worthington Cup 2003 and Champions League 2005, Super Cup 2005, FA Cup 2006, Charity Shield 2006, CL final 2007 damage then I hope Roy damages the sh*t out of this club. In that decade the only piece of silverware missing between Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez is the Premier League and you have the cheek of accusing both men of damaging the club.

Gerard Houllier transformed Melwood. If you were to accuse anyone of damaging then I could have seen a case for Graham Souness but I just dont understand the failure whether you liked the managers or not to acknowledge their achievements.

Again, I do not think Roy will ever win us the title.

Then why in Gods name do you want to keep the guy as manager? Because hes a decent, hard working, nice guy? Nice guys never win and I really dont understand why you would want to keep a manager that you dont think capable of winning the league.

If you were Roys boss would you really leave him in control if you didnt think he could win us the league?

Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #141 on: October 19, 2010, 12:34:19 AM »
  Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 07:16:35 PM  <blockquote>  I want to pick up this point with you Dude. At the beginning of last season were we desperate for another striker to aid Torres. A lot of people recognised this. Not sure if you did. But what does Rafa do? Spends a club record for a RB on Johnson and circa £19M on Aquilani!! Sorry, but that was poor judgement.

We had a decent RB in Kelly who, despite playing well when he's stepped up to the plate, is still ignored by Hodgson as well as Rafa.

So on your two points above I would say he did buy badly and it was compounded because he had limited funds. We all know Ngog is a keen youngster with some potential but hardly a good partner for Torres.

Of course if he hadn't aliented Alonso he wouldn't have needed to buy Aquilani in the first place. </blockquote>
   
 
we're on the same hymnsheet, ASI.  I agree with all your points above (with the exception of Kelly).  I have never rated Johnston.  Aquilini was a bizarre buy - given his price and bad injury.
 
The point however is, that Utd, Chelsea and now City can afford expensive mistakes - we cannot.  They have bought lots of expensive flops too.  But we don't have any wriggle room, to change things around easily or cover our mistakes.  They do.
 
But look at the superb spine that Rafa created.  And all on a net shoe
Can you see Roy (or anyone else) ever again hammer Utd and Real Madrid, by 4 goals to one, in the same week?  That was Rafa's pedigree.  Others can only dream of that.
 
My sadness is that Rafa wasn't around at a time when we had a decent budget to spend. 
We will never now know, how great he could have made us.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 12:35:23 AM by the dude abides »
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Offline Ed

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #142 on: October 19, 2010, 01:24:34 AM »
Hmmm...I think it's good having MartinMax on here sticking up for Roy.....I mean I hate to see the team lose and these embarrassing results against crap teams...Roy is an easy target to vent my frustrations on (a seriously easy target). I accept as well that 9 out of 10 managers would say the equally stupid things Roy says if they were managing Liverpool in this mess. So yeah he has my sympathies and I kindof recoil at the thought of a good football man having his reputation destroyed by our club (BAD KARMA!!).

There's only so much juggling he can do with the teamsheet and he's unlucky with Kuyt (but i think Everton had more injuries). Perhaps also the notion of relegation is a little on the hysterical side (we're a point or 2 from safety LOL).

So what are we doing here?
Finish outside the top 4, no champions league football for a second year running????? The problem there, aside from the financial implications, is the stars might leave (who'd blame them!) and it would be difficult to attract real quality to replace them.

So the target is to finish top 4, with some astute business in the January transfer window....WE'RE ABOUT 8 POINTS OFF THE TOP 4 NOW....

Can Roy deliver that? Galvanise a team of misfits/has-beens to charge up that table? Or are we just not bothered about top 4 anymore? Personally, I think what is possible depends a lot on the man in charge. I think that the new owners want top 4 this season and will have the finger on the trigger, things were probably set in motion after the derby and there'll be a replacement at Anfield for the Chelsea game. As long as Roy leaves with a bit of dignity I'm happy enough...

Offline Ed

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #143 on: October 19, 2010, 01:52:34 AM »
When we were 3 nil down at half-time in Istanbul....what was the reality then?? did we give up? concede defeat? team isn't good enough?

B*llocks we're Liverpool FC....It's going to be very hard (no two ways about it!!)...but unless the target is 4th (don't need a guarantee like last year), unless the team goes out with that attitude (nobody has to talk it up!) in the next game and the one after that and the one after that....We are winners and when we stop trying the impossible we cease to exist!

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #144 on: October 19, 2010, 06:23:15 AM »
I have one other criticism of Roy. A few weeks ago he gave a clear public signal to Ryan Babel that he had until January to prove himself. Since then he hasn't started a single game and his total time on the pitch is no more than 45 minutes.

Has he forgotten what he said? You have to give the lad a chance because despite his many faults he is young, strong and has a decent shot. Time to give Babel a chance on Sunday I think but sadly, I doubt he will.

I too noticed that and am a tad surprised Ryan hasn't practically featured since. Worse tho, IMHO, is the constant omission of Jovanovic who lifted us against  Sunderland and Blackpool. Maxi ain't a PL player so why persist playing him. I also think he should've taken off Carra last 30 against Toffees and played Maxi/Babel/Jovanovic for right side. At least it signalled he wanted to win a lost game. It's not that I'm not critical of Roy, just won't call for his head during his first season. It's a principle I have and stand by. Didn't do it with Souey, Roy, GH or Rafa and won't start now.
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Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #145 on: October 19, 2010, 09:50:27 AM »
It's not that I'm not critical of Roy, just won't call for his head during his first season. It's a principle I have and stand by. Didn't do it with Souey, Roy, GH or Rafa and won't start now.

That makes a lot of sense, Martin and now it's crystal clear where you're coming from.

You'll get used to the style of us all on here pretty quickly. We'll point out as what we see are mistakes, flaws, even incompetencies, but we all try to do it in a respectful way without getting personal to the subject of the criticism or with each other.
Bottom line is we all want what we perceive to be the best for the club.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #146 on: October 19, 2010, 11:40:38 AM »
Martin if you call the Worthington the Cup 2001, FA Cup 2001, UEFA Cup 2001, FA Charity Shield 2001,  UEFA Super Cup 2001, Worthington Cup 2003 and Champions League 2005, Super Cup 2005, FA Cup 2006, Charity Shield 2006, CL final 2007 damage then I hope Roy damages the sh*t out of this club. In that decade the only piece of silverware missing between Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez is the Premier League and you have the cheek of accusing both men of damaging the club.

Listing friendlies as a means of papering over the crap, won't disguise he fact GH was a disaster for this club his last 3 seasons. Pretty much the same with Rafa in his final 3 seasons.

Then why in Gods name do you want to keep the guy as manager?

Because, as I said somewhere above, I believe LFC is in a transitional phase where it needs to build a foundation for future success rather than actually achieving it (because it's simply not possible for a couple of years). Because Roy more than any other manager we had since Kenny has that ability and have shown it time and again during his long career (though many of you no doubt will belittle those achievments). Some people on here mock his record as manager. True he hasn't won a lot of trophies. But he has helped many clubs reach higher levels by building a foundation. People say LFC is about winning silverware. That may be true. That statement isn't very realistic at this time, though. Bring in all your fancy and posh managers and they'll fail to win the title and the only result we'll see is another 4-5 years and a couple of hundred millions spent without taking this club a single step closer to that elusive no. 19. Liverpool FC need to accept where it is, the club need to return to its roots and convert them into a "Liverpool way" of the 2010's. GH's and Rafa's desire to win titles rather than building a foundation, dynasty what have you for the future have weakened the club through the years and in that sense I think both did damage to this club although they both managed, as I've already said, to string together the ocassional cup run.

I think Wenger is very sound and sober in his latest comments on where this club is for the time being. It'll take time but we'll get there. Swedish poet Karin Boye once wrote the beautiful poem "In motion". I think it captures the way I see football, the way see life.


"The sated day is never first.
The best day is a day of thirst.

Yes, there is goal and meaning in our path -
but it's the way that is the labour's worth.

The best goal is a night-long rest,
fire lit, and bread broken in haste.

In places where one sleeps but once,
sleep is secure, dreams full of songs.

Strike camp, strike camp! The new day shows its light.
Our great adventure has no end in sight."
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 11:44:09 AM by Martinmarx »
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Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #147 on: October 19, 2010, 12:16:07 PM »
Listing friendlies as a means of papering over the crap, won't disguise he fact GH was a disaster for this club his last 3 seasons. Pretty much the same with Rafa in his final 3 seasons.

Because Roy more than any other manager we had since Kenny has that ability and have shown it time and again during his long career (though many of you no doubt will belittle those achievments). Some people on here mock his record as manager.

I think its unfair of you Martin to stick up for Roys record if you yourself belittle what Houllier and Benitez have won.

I can see where your coming from with the idea of stability and getting Liverpool back to being the type of club it once was. However I dont agree that we have to compromise on what our targets should be. We have the spine of a very talented team and by spine I am talking about Reina, Agger, Gerrard and Torres. Then there are some worthy players in there after that and some less worthy with some promising younger players coming through. But the fact that we finished 7th last season should indicate that with some quality additions we should be back challenging for at least 4th not propping up the league table.

To quote Bill shankly ;

“Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor.”

Martin I just dont see the point in us keeping Roy if you feel he wont be eventually capable of winning us the league. At what point do you fire him then and hand over the reigns to a manager you think can challenge. Is that manager then expected to follow on with Hodgsons blue print of Liverpool or will be be allowed to adopt his own approach at which point we will be starting again. I understand what your saying but I dont think its a process you can adopt to LFC. You bring a manager into LFC with the intention of them one day challenging for the league. The fact that you yourself admit you dont think Hodgson can do that is evidence enough for me to say hes not the right man for the job.

Offline Gurdeep

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #148 on: October 19, 2010, 12:34:12 PM »
Because Roy more than any other manager we had since Kenny has that ability


Let's hope he does not show the same ability that he showed at Blackburn Rovers cos' right now that's where we're at!

...and have shown it time and again during his long career (though many of you no doubt will belittle those achievments).

Sorry, but a long career means nothing.  The guy has no tactical ability and he will be gone......just a matter of time.
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Offline Martinmarx

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #149 on: October 19, 2010, 01:57:58 PM »
I think its unfair of you Martin to stick up for Roys record if you yourself belittle what Houllier and Benitez have won.

I can see where your coming from with the idea of stability and getting Liverpool back to being the type of club it once was. However I dont agree that we have to compromise on what our targets should be. We have the spine of a very talented team and by spine I am talking about Reina, Agger, Gerrard and Torres. Then there are some worthy players in there after that and some less worthy with some promising younger players coming through. But the fact that we finished 7th last season should indicate that with some quality additions we should be back challenging for at least 4th not propping up the league table.

Martin I just dont see the point in us keeping Roy if you feel he wont be eventually capable of winning us the league. At what point do you fire him then and hand over the reigns to a manager you think can challenge. Is that manager then expected to follow on with Hodgsons blue print of Liverpool or will be be allowed to adopt his own approach at which point we will be starting again. I understand what your saying but I dont think its a process you can adopt to LFC. You bring a manager into LFC with the intention of them one day challenging for the league. The fact that you yourself admit you dont think Hodgson can do that is evidence enough for me to say hes not the right man for the job.

We've heard the same argument for over a decade now - "we have a very strong spine we just need too...". Yes, we have 6-7 very good players able to slot into a titlewinning side (I'd add Kuijt, Meireles and Cole to the ones you mentioned). But for the past decade both GH and Rafa has failed massively to help youngsters come through. It's 12 years since Gerrard broke through ffs. Rafa bought, I think I heard somewhere, 86 players during his tenure. EIGHTYf***INGSIX PLAYERS. That's nearly 8 full teams in six years. He was clueless as to how to build that foundation Shanks and Sir Bob instilled and benefitted from for so many years.

I think reinstating this club as a major force in English footy will be a two step process where filling the expression "The Liverpool Way" with content will represent the first step, then actually, in step two, challenge for honours. I think Roy's perfect to help this club through step one, but I may be wrong.

You say challenge's a prerequisite for managing his club. Too f***ing bad then neither GH nor Rafa during their 12 years of combined management managed to pull off that feat more than 2 times (tho I question whether GH actually challenged as the title was lost with 7 games to play and the reason we finished 2nd was down to a*senal beating ManU in the 37th game of the 2001/2002 season rather than us pushing it down to the final day).

I think it's unrealistic to hope this club will challenge for anything but 4th in the coming years. That's how sad things have become but it isn't Roy' fault by any means. If he'll fail to instill joy, faith, grit and will this season you'll meet me at the top of the barricades early next season kicking and screaming for his removal. But not until then.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 02:00:47 PM by Martinmarx »
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