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Author Topic: The Roy Hodgson Thread  (Read 132653 times)

Clem

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #150 on: October 19, 2010, 04:30:45 PM »
I do admire the passion of the previous post, but I do think the manager had made an inauspicious start to his career both as our coach and our spokesman: insulting Norwegian reporters has never really been 'the liverpool way' before. Maybe we should feel humble that roy is re-defining the terms of our traditions as well as he is redefining what constitutes a good performance from Liverpool in the derby.

Offline Ed

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #151 on: October 19, 2010, 04:51:05 PM »
Hmmm....MartinMax, tbh I don't recognise the spirit of our football club in your posts. I'm sorry!

When Shankly set out, my recollection is he had it in mind to build an empire (LOL...genius)!

What is irritating a lot of supporters w.r.t to Hodgson is the scope of his ambition, maybe he doesn't verbalise it correctly and it's certainly not there in the teams he sends out...

Ultimately that's why he'll go, BECAUSE LIVERPOOL REQUIRE A LIVERPOOL MANAGER...thriving on doing the impossible!

Offline Kopite999

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #152 on: October 19, 2010, 05:34:17 PM »
Comparing Houllier and Rafa with Woy is a non-starter. The previous two managers have won things. ROY has always been a nearly man. He found his level at Fulham and as much as you cant help like the bloke i honestly dont think he is the man for us. We need a manager with a history of winning things and a past at a huge club.  The pressure of managing us is huge, and we need someone who has experianced it before. Roy's got 3/4  games left. Anything less than 3 wins will probably see Hodgson leave. So by the Chelsea game i'm expecting a new man in place or at leat the King taking over short term

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #153 on: October 19, 2010, 06:48:24 PM »

we're on the same hymnsheet, ASI.  I agree with all your points above (with the exception of Kelly).  I have never rated Johnston.  Aquilini was a bizarre buy - given his price and bad injury.
I'm curious why you don't rate Kelly dude. But if you move Johnson forward he could become a decent winger. He has pace and good ball control. And critically he wouldn't have to tackle that often. Then Kelly could play at RB.
 
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The point however is, that Utd, Chelsea and now City can afford expensive mistakes - we cannot.  They have bought lots of expensive flops too.  But we don't have any wriggle room, to change things around easily or cover our mistakes.  They do.
So you're suggesting we only buy proven players. They will command a premium for that very reason. In short, we didn't have the money so some risks had to be taken. Rafa did buy some good players like Crouch but wouldn't give him a guarantee of first team play. But there must have been more to that because no player can insist on that.
 
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But look at the superb spine that Rafa created.  And all on a net shoe can you see Roy (or anyone else) ever again hammer Utd and Real Madrid, by 4 goals to one, in the same week?  That was Rafa's pedigree.  Others can only dream of that.
That was a dream week but unrepresentative of our performance over the season. Everything just clicked from that point until the end of season and 7/10 times our points tally would have been enough for the title. Sadly, you only realise what you had when you don't have it any more.
 
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My sadness is that Rafa wasn't around at a time when we had a decent budget to spend. 
We will never now know, how great he could have made us.

Looking at his early years he did buy some good players using his knowledge of the Spanish league. But his knowledge of the better English players was limited. I think he worked on the principle that if you get enough players then by the law of averages you will get some bargains. Look at the number of players on the books when Roy took charge. he was mortified!
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #154 on: October 19, 2010, 07:01:44 PM »
It's not that I'm not critical of Roy, just won't call for his head during his first season. It's a principle I have and stand by. Didn't do it with Souey, Roy, GH or Rafa and won't start now.
You can't have set rules when it comes to decisions about a manager. You have to look at things like what players we could lose because of a system they clearly can't adapt to. Would you rather keep Roy but lose Torres in January? He's given clear warnings that we have to buy quality players or he won't stay. To his credit he's stayed this season when he could have gone. We have to respect his commitment and go out and buy 2 or 3 decent players. If I was the owner I would have one-to-ones with each player and ask their opinions on who they thought would be a good addition to the side. If the same name(s) kept coming back then that could be imparted to the manager but the final decision would be his.

Back in the 90s and early noughties there wasn't the same pressure to qualify for the CL. That is more or less mandatory for us now which is why we have to move quickly. I honestly believe that if Roy doesn't win one of Blackburn, Napoli or Bolton he should go. If we lose Torres or Reina in January we really will be in serious trouble both in terms of league performance and the ability to attract top players. You have to have either good players or a world-class manager to attract players. By Jan we could have neither.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Martinmarx

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #155 on: October 19, 2010, 07:43:07 PM »
You can't have set rules when it comes to decisions about a manager. You have to look at things like what players we could lose because of a system they clearly can't adapt to. Would you rather keep Roy but lose Torres in January?

I don't know to be perfectly honest. For the last 3 seasons Torres' been out injured pretty much half that time, the rest of the time he hasn't contributed at all.  I know, on his day he's arguably the best striker in the world. But it's also the case that few are the times he's lifted the team on his own. I'm not saying he's crap, only that both sides of the coin should be taken into consideration. That may be down to the system deployed by Rafa as much as anything else, and this season it's obvious he's suffering from fatigue. Would I keep Torres at any cost? No, as no player will ever be bigger than the club. But I think we'll slowly recover from this poor and to some extent unlucky start to the season and Torres will inevitably find form. If he wants to leave what can you do about it (ask Fergie). I know he doesn't look less happy now he did last season.

In any case, I don't think we're playing any worse than we did last season under Rafa. As was pointed out above, too much is made of that fantastic spring of 2009 when we played well above our level. By that time Rafa had already handed back the title to Fergie after having been offered it on 3-4 ocassions during the autumn and spring. It is remarkable really that Rafa doesn't recieve more criticism for how little he actually achieved as a PL manager. People really need to be honest about this. He said get rid of Perry, and they got rid of Perry. He said give me more control of transfer signings than any other manager in the leauge, and they gave him just that.  Yet he failed to find an acceptable level as to how the team performed on average but continued to lose to teams destined for relegation eventually costing us CL qualification. It's incredible really when you see banners in the Kop with him, Shanks, Sir Bob and Kenny on it. It's the world turned upside down, it's Kafka, it's the lunies having taken over the asylum, it's what have you. It is indeed a lowpoint for "the most knowledgeable fans in the world". Yer havin a larf, right?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 07:44:48 PM by Martinmarx »
The modest Oracle of the Anfield Road Forum sometimes mistaken for Judas Iscariot.

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #156 on: October 19, 2010, 08:25:51 PM »
Looking at his early years he did buy some good players using his knowledge of the Spanish league. But his knowledge of the better English players was limited. I think he worked on the principle that if you get enough players then by the law of averages you will get some bargains. Look at the number of players on the books when Roy took charge. he was mortified!

Our dismal transfer record really started when we lost Pako and Paco and Macia came in instead as chief scout.

In addition Rafa never seemed to indentify a position that needed strengthening and purchase accordingly.

Whether his budget was a 'use or lose it' one, he would appear to spend for the sake of it sometimes. Riera purchased in the Summer as Babbel was coming off his first, and at the time promising, season an example.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #157 on: October 19, 2010, 10:50:35 PM »
I don't know to be perfectly honest. For the last 3 seasons Torres' been out injured pretty much half that time, the rest of the time he hasn't contributed at all. 
He's never had a decent rest since he joined us. But last season he scored 22 goals from 32 appearances. I call that quite a contribution. Here's my source http://www.liverweb.org.uk/apps.asp?season=200910.

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I know, on his day he's arguably the best striker in the world. But it's also the case that few are the times he's lifted the team on his own. I'm not saying he's crap, only that both sides of the coin should be taken into consideration.
Forwards tend to get the least amount of time on the ball and are under the most pressure when they do. But he does need to improve his work rate and attitude. He seems to sulk a lot but maybe that's just the way he is.

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Would I keep Torres at any cost? No, as no player will ever be bigger than the club. But I think we'll slowly recover from this poor and to some extent unlucky start to the season and Torres will inevitably find form. If he wants to leave what can you do about it (ask Fergie). I know he doesn't look less happy now he did last season.
If City were to come in with a stupid offer then we would have to consider it but after today's events I don't think they will. Chelsea won't pay silly money so if he's going anywhere it's Barcelona. Agree that no player is greater than the club but there are some you try harder to keep than others.

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In any case, I don't think we're playing any worse than we did last season under Rafa.
I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that. And as this is a thread about Roy I'll pass on any comments you made about Rafa's tenure.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #158 on: October 19, 2010, 10:53:19 PM »
Our dismal transfer record really started when we lost Pako and Paco and Macia came in instead as chief scout.
Yes, that does seem quite a coincidence Tes. Good scouts are worth their weight in gold.

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In addition Rafa never seemed to indentify a position that needed strengthening and purchase accordingly.

Whether his budget was a 'use or lose it' one, he would appear to spend for the sake of it sometimes. Riera purchased in the Summer as Babbel was coming off his first, and at the time promising, season an example.

His lowest priority seemed to be strikers. Probably shows the cautious nature of the man.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #159 on: October 20, 2010, 10:00:54 AM »
His lowest priority seemed to be strikers. Probably shows the cautious nature of the man.

ASI, it was always a strange one, wasn't it? It appeared to be central midfielders and centre backs where his focus was targetted, any old player can play wide and we have 'the world class striker', so that's job done.
Granted you have to have a strong defensive base, but creativity and finishing of chances doesn't just happen.
The foundations were in place it was the remainder that never got built.
Buying Riera when Adam Johnson only had a year on his contract was sheer folly. And look at Johnson now. I'm not right very often, but on this one I was, unfortunately.
 
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #160 on: October 20, 2010, 12:29:27 PM »
Rijkaard seems to be a free agent. I would have huge reservations about him. For me he would be a very un Liverpool type of manager and hasnt exactly set the world alight since leaving Barcelona.

The more I think about it I know Dude and Tes were big advocates of this guy  Pelligrini and he really does appeal were Roy to get the sack. He had Villarreal playing some excellent football.

Just looking at his pedigree;

With Villarreal he finished 3rd, 7th (semis of the Champs League), 5th, 2nd, 5th. Thats no easy feat with the teams that are in La Liga.

Real Madrid in 09/10 he finished 2nd on a record 96 points. If he had a star billing like Mourihno would he have been sacked, I doubt it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/20/frank-rijkaard-galatasaray-liverpool

Rijkaard linked to job at Liverpool

Frank Rijkaard's contract as coach of Galatasaray has been terminated by mutual agreement, the club said today.

The former Uefa Cup champions are ninth in the Turkish championship after eight games, eight points adrift of leaders Bursaspor. They lost 4-2 against mid-table side Ankaragucu on Sunday. The Dutchman was appointed by the Istanbul club in 2009 after leaving Barcelona the previous year.

"As a result of mutual talks with technical director Frank Rijkaard ... we have decided to part ways," read a Galatasaray statement.

Rijkaard's availability has already led to speculation that he could replace Roy Hodgson as Liverpool manager. The 63-year-old Englishman has endured a torrid start to his tenure at Anfield and the club are in the relegation zone after almost a quarter of the season.

The odds on Rijkaard replacing Hodgson tumbled today and the Dutchman was 5/2 favourite with William Hill this morning. Martin O'Neill (10/3), Kenny Dalglish (5/1) and Guus Hiddink (8/1) are next on the list.

Offline barticus

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #161 on: October 20, 2010, 02:01:59 PM »
Personally if Roy doesn't start producing the goods and it'll be blatantly obvious within the next 5 games or so, then i would like Pelligrini...Hiddink as 2nd choice...

But in the last few days and all this business about Rooney and how he's dumping manure and taggart...i have come to a realisation that John Henry and whoever our manager will be, need to look for players with some f***ing pride...
i laugh my tits off as every liverpool supporter does at the problems at Manure...but i can't help feeling the sadness of the situation of football...where are the callaghan's of the 867 games? The players who are loyal...you might hate scholes and giggs but at least they're loyal...no matter how deranged the cause they fight for...and when you see all these mercenaries in it just for the money...where they're only being paid x amount to sit on the bench...

as a manager i would root through players who seemed to give a f***...and sign them....sure they may be a handful in the dressing room, but with genius and passion comes the reverse...
i would introduce these new players into a factory in liverpool for a week, to work, where they see the people around them idolise them and realise just who they're playing for...
these footballers are not playing for their families, for their contracts cover them handsomely...these footballers are playing for us...we are the ones who fought to get hicks and gillette out...the ones who tweeted...who facebooked...who emailed to all our friends and who spread the word...we are the ones who pay for tickets to see our team...who pay for merchandise..
we do not want players whose heads go down in the first 10 minutes of the game when things don't go their way...we want players who love that situation, who thrive on it...who will stand up and say fork everyone...who will see that the manager is directionless (Roy take note) and take the game by the scruff of the neck and play despite...all eleven should bark orders and all eleven trust each other enough to go with what is being said...eleven captains all playing for us...and 4 captains on the bench...

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #162 on: October 20, 2010, 04:25:53 PM »
Rijkaard seems to be a free agent. I would have huge reservations about him. For me he would be a very un Liverpool type of manager and hasnt exactly set the world alight since leaving Barcelona.

The more I think about it I know Dude and Tes were big advocates of this guy  Pelligrini and he really does appeal were Roy to get the sack. He had Villarreal playing some excellent football.

Just looking at his pedigree;

With Villarreal he finished 3rd, 7th (semis of the Champs League), 5th, 2nd, 5th. Thats no easy feat with the teams that are in La Liga.

Real Madrid in 09/10 he finished 2nd on a record 96 points. If he had a star billing like Mourihno would he have been sacked, I doubt it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/20/frank-rijkaard-galatasaray-liverpool

Rijkaard linked to job at Liverpool

Frank Rijkaard's contract as coach of Galatasaray has been terminated by mutual agreement, the club said today.

The former Uefa Cup champions are ninth in the Turkish championship after eight games, eight points adrift of leaders Bursaspor. They lost 4-2 against mid-table side Ankaragucu on Sunday. The Dutchman was appointed by the Istanbul club in 2009 after leaving Barcelona the previous year.

"As a result of mutual talks with technical director Frank Rijkaard ... we have decided to part ways," read a Galatasaray statement.

Rijkaard's availability has already led to speculation that he could replace Roy Hodgson as Liverpool manager. The 63-year-old Englishman has endured a torrid start to his tenure at Anfield and the club are in the relegation zone after almost a quarter of the season.

The odds on Rijkaard replacing Hodgson tumbled today and the Dutchman was 5/2 favourite with William Hill this morning. Martin O'Neill (10/3), Kenny Dalglish (5/1) and Guus Hiddink (8/1) are next on the list.

Rijkaard's record since Henk Ten Cate left as his assistant whilst at a Barca has been dismal. He's still living on past reputation from when Cate was his assistant. It's similar to when Houllier lost Patrice Bergues and Benitez lost Pako Ayesteran.

For me Pellegrini has shown two assets. He's shown the ability to take a very moderate team and improve them beyond what you'd expect, whilst at the same time improving the players individually, Rossi and Forlan being prime examples.
Secondly, to be able to take that collection of egos and such an unbalanced squad with many new additions altogether and mould them into a team that finish with a record points total, better than anything Capello or Del Bosque achieved, was a terrific achievement. I realise they didn't beat Barca to the title, but then again, that Barca team is incredibly settled with many of the players having played together through the junior ranks as well as the first and together for their country in addition.

He'd also play the type of football which would better suit the likes of Torres, Gerrard, Cole, Maxi and Meireles and would utilise Agger's abilities better.   
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #163 on: October 20, 2010, 05:19:02 PM »
Completely agreed Barticus. I would have been an advocate for signing more English players, especially when you look at the likes of Mascherano jumping ship after Liverpool saved his career. However when you see Rooney looking for an out it makes you wonder are all players the same these days chasing the almighty dollar.

If he moves to Man City for the cash it does make club loyalty look like a thing of the past. The one thing I will say about the Rooney situation is that I get the impression that there is more to the situation than we are seeing. Fergie was quick to give his side of things and vilify Rooney but I wouldnt be surprised if something major between himself and Fergie has gone down.

It would also worry me to see Rooney go abroad. Realistically it would strengthen Liverpools chances for a future league title, he would never come to us and Chelsea/Man City would be his destination in England however it would weaken the premier league further to see another big name player leave. Torres could well be next and that would make most of the worlds stars plying their trade in Spain.

Agreed also on the idea of some top stars doing some hard labour in a factory. If only that were a reality. It might opens their eyes to how good they have it.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #164 on: October 20, 2010, 05:27:19 PM »
Rijkaard's record since Henk Ten Cate left as his assistant whilst at a Barca has been dismal. He's still living on past reputation from when Cate was his assistant. It's similar to when Houllier lost Patrice Bergues and Benitez lost Pako Ayesteran.

For me Pellegrini has shown two assets. He's shown the ability to take a very moderate team and improve them beyond what you'd expect, whilst at the same time improving the players individually, Rossi and Forlan being prime examples.
Secondly, to be able to take that collection of egos and such an unbalanced squad with many new additions altogether and mould them into a team that finish with a record points total, better than anything Capello or Del Bosque achieved, was a terrific achievement. I realise they didn't beat Barca to the title, but then again, that Barca team is incredibly settled with many of the players having played together through the junior ranks as well as the first and together for their country in addition.

He'd also play the type of football which would better suit the likes of Torres, Gerrard, Cole, Maxi and Meireles and would utilise Agger's abilities better.

Tes as far as I am aware he hasnt joined anyone since the summer either so would be coming in on a free. He could work wonders with the team and he isnt someone that would be problematic for the board. He seems to be quiet a dignified coach. He could well be our Arsene Wenger. Its a no brainer.

My first choice as interim manager was Kenny Dalglish but that was just to see how he would get on in an interim basis while the club was being sold. Now that the club is sold and is in dire straights I'm not sure we can take that risk on Kenny so give the job to Pelligrini. He worked wonders with Villarreal and as you said proved he could cope with some big egos at Real too. He would be a great footballing choice hence he got a shot at Real.

Someone needs to send John Henry an email.