The Roy Hodgson Thread

[the dude abides]

I don't mean to represent the truth in any way. It's just that I really believe we, as fans, should stand behind the manager through the hard times as well. I ain't happy how it's panned out thus far, but right now Roy can't even try to be positive or straightforward before his word's been twisted in the media and links to what he allegedly said appear in this forum and elsewhere to ridicule him. I think that's going beyond being critical of the manager and his decision. There's another word for that and it doesn't start with "when you walk, through a storm...".  That's my truth tell me yours, or something to that effect.

the liverpool way was only to bring in someone new if he was better than what we already had.

thus most of us were bewildered to see rafa make way for roy.

to me, this season has massive echoes of roy's relegation season at blackburn, in the late 90s.  Blackburn had been heavily financed by Jack Walker.....they had the second wealthiest squad in the premiership that season.  Blackburn had finished 6th the season before (remember we were 7th last season).

blackburn got off to an awful start and never recovered.  They were relegated.  Roy refused to walk (Oechoes of his refusal to walk away from anfield).  He was sacked at Christmas.

Hodgson later explained Blackburn's owner gave him the chance to resign honorably but he refused to do so, leaving the club with no option but to sack him: "To Blackburn's honour, Jack Walker wanted me to resign, he wanted to still pay for the rest of my contract. He said, 'Why don't you resign? You've had enough, it's not working out.' I refused to do that, arrogant of course as I was in those days.I thought if they stuck with me I'd save them from relegation. I do think that the players were very much still with me, so I couldn't resign because that would be a suggestion that in some way I was doing something or something was happening which I didn't see to be the case or the truth. I gave him no choice but to sack me"

eerie echoes of this season.

[Tes]

Do I really have to spend the next hour to cut and paste to prove you wrong or is it too much to ask you read through this thread with an open mind? There's tons of links to "quotes" that "prove" what a "failure" he is. There's quite a lot of condescending remarks you normally wouldn't find in posts claiming to comment on-pitch issues only.

Yes, yes you do. Anything that is not in fawning admiration of the job Hodgson is doing is jumped on by you as some sort of evil agenda everyone has.
Some of us don't agree with your point of view, though we all respect it and your right to hold it. Deal with it. It's getting really tiresome reading your constant whining and sniping at anybody who dares differ from your line. Are you not able to understand the subtle differences everyone has in their opinions?

One of the things that sets this forum apart from most others is that we don't get 'personal' with any observations, criticisms, comments about etc, be it players, managers or each other.
You're going way too far in your interpretation of what people are saying, seeing agendas where non exist and generally flying off the handle at anything that isn't wholesome praise of the manager.   

[Martinmarx]

the liverpool way was only to bring in someone new if he was better than what we already had.

thus most of us were bewildered to see rafa make way for roy.

to me, this season has massive echoes of roy's relegation season at blackburn, in the late 90s.  Blackburn had been heavily financed by Jack Walker.....they had the second wealthiest squad in the premiership that season.  Blackburn had finished 6th the season before (remember we were 7th last season).

blackburn got off to an awful start and never recovered.  They were relegated.  Roy refused to walk (Oechoes of his refusal to walk away from anfield).  He was sacked at Christmas.

eerie echoes of this season.

I never thought of the Liverpool way in such terms, but each to his own I guess. You do admit though, that the bulk of your case in declaring Roy unfit is solely based on a guilty by association logic? I remember people hanging on to GH referering to the Fergie-logic that it took him 6 years to win his first title so why shouldn't we do the same with GH? This is the inverted version of an equally poor and irrelevant argument. I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, I'm just saying the argument put forth to declare him unfit are based on hearsay, guilty-by-association-logic and irrelevant historical analogies rather than empirical analysis. The reason for this is there isn't enough empirical evidence to build a credible argument just yet. But I'll give you he need to start turn things around very very soon. Preferrably he'd need to win our next 3 games including Chelsea at home. This we are capable of unlike most other teams in the PL.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

  aye, ASI is big on the young lad, Johnston.

Where's my lawyer's number?  I'm not as big a fan as I used to be and would prefer him at right wing. Kelly of course would do a better job at RB.

[the dude abides]

I never thought of the Liverpool way in such terms, but each to his own I guess. You do admit though, that the bulk of your case in declaring Roy unfit is solely based on a guilty by association logic? I remember people hanging on to GH referering to the Fergie-logic that it took him 6 years to win his first title so why shouldn't we do the same with GH? This is the inverted version of an equally poor and irrelevant argument. I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, I'm just saying the argument put forth to declare him unfit are based on hearsay, guilty-by-association-logic and irrelevant historical analogies rather than empirical analysis. The reason for this is there isn't enough empirical evidence to build a credible argument just yet. But I'll give you he need to start turn things around very very soon. Preferrably he'd need to win our next 3 games including Chelsea at home. This we are capable of unlike most other teams in the PL.

guilt-by-association-logic??  what are you referring to?

roy's CV is poor.  There is no evidence whatsoever that he is up to the job.

nobody else in here support's your extreme position........aren't you, at some point, inclined to question your own assessment?

[the dude abides]

Where's my lawyer's number?  I'm not as big a fan as I used to be and would prefer him at right wing. Kelly of course would do a better job at RB.

if you're after 1.6 billion in damages, then me and fluffy are going undercover for a bit.

Johnston should be left-back..............left back in the dressing room  *boom boom* (my basil brush impersonation)

I'll get me coat.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

if you're after 1.6 billion in damages, then me and fluffy are going undercover for a bit.

I'll settle out of court for half that! 

Johnston should be left-back..............left back in the dressing room  *boom boom* (my basil brush impersonation)

I'll get me coat.

That was good. In the good old days we didn't have right halfs and left halfs. We had not halfs. Not half good! I'll also get my coat!

[Juan]

But Juan, with that way of conditioning support Rafa should've recieved the same treatment Roy is now at least 3 years ago. For the last 3 years Rafa was found out, pretty much any team in the PL knew what it took to take points from Liverpool, even at Anfield. It's the double standards I think I have trouble accepting here. Rafa got chance after chance after chance to prove he wasn't taking this club forward and funnily enough he took every single opportunity handed to him for 3 years. Yet he was beyond criticism based on that one game in Istanbul. I don't known what it is but it isn't analysis based on knowledge and intellecutal honesty. Roy's been declared unfit before even being given the opportunity to prove so. Roy wasn't my first name on the list either, not even the second or third, but I think he deserves the same chance Souey, Roy, GH and Rafa got - a season to prove his failure.

When Rafa arrived at Mestalla he had nothing in his CV suggesting he'd be the first manager to lead Valencia to the title for the first time in over 30 years. Also, he started off with 4 defeats in, I think it was, his first 6 games as manager for Valencia having the Valencia fans kicking and screaming for his removal. I'm not saying the same will happen here, just that pointing to Roy's CV as evidence he'll fail is a pretty shallow and irrelevant argument from an intellectual point of view.

The big difference is Martin when Rafa took over at Valencia his managerial career was only 9 years old as such. Roy has been managing for 30 years now so you would expect his cv to show alot more success than it does.

As for Rafas achievements I think you are too quick to dismiss them. And I have provided some stats to back up what I mean. He was at Liverpool for 6 years, got to 2 champions league finals, a semi final and a quarter final,  failed to qualify once. He won an FA cup and got to a Carling cup final as well as the Europa cup semi final. Also in those 6 years lost a total of 9 home league games at Anfield. Not a bad record for someone you suggest that was "beyond criticism based on that one game in Istanbul". I dont mind people not liking Rafa, his style of management, his tactics or whatever but I just cant accept when people attempt to skim over his achievements and suggest his record is based on one game in Istanbul. And that's not taking into account the quality of opposition throughout his tenure of Arsenal, Chelsea and United.

2004-05 : PL 5th, CL Winners, Car Cup Finalists - (PL lost 3 games at home)
2005-06 : PL 3rd, CL 2nd round, FA cup winners - (PL lost 1 game at home)
2006-07 : PL 3rd, CL Finalists - (PL lost 1 game at home)
2007-08 : PL 4th, CL Semi finals - (PL lost 1 game at home)
2008-09 : PL 2nd, CL Quarter final - (PL unbeaten at home)
2009-10 : PL 7th, CL Group stages - (PL lost 3 games at home)

[Juan]

 I remember people hanging on to GH referering to the Fergie-logic that it took him 6 years to win his first title so why shouldn't we do the same with GH?

Thats true Martin but in 7 years previous at Aberdeen Ferguson won three league titles, four Scottish Cups,  the European Cup Winner's Cup, the European Super Cup and a League Cup. Roy reached the final of the Uefa Cup.

[the dude abides]

In the good old days we didn't have right halfs and left halfs. We had not halfs. Not half good! I'll also get my coat!

    

can't beat the good old days.

i recently watched an old wembley fa cup final - from the 70s era.  Lovely memories.

football, where did it all go wrong.

[Ed]

Fair play to you Juan for putting forward the case for Rafa!

I think there are probably extreme Rafa Haters out there who invested a lot of energy over a number of years suggesting he be sacked, welcomed the appointment of Roy with open arms (because he wasn't Rafa!) and now have serious issues and difficulties accepting that the only reason Roy was appointed was because he was unlikely to upset the sale of the club i.e. it wasn't a footballing decision!

[Tes]

All of you take back everything 'nasty' you said about 'our Roy'. We moved up a place in the league today without even playing.      When did 'Rafa' ever do anything like that???!!! 

[Ed]

Oh dear, it's that time of year again where we have to suffer the presence of the STUPIDEST (probably fattest!) manager in the Premier League at Anfield. Roy can you please send out a team that will destroy them! Ideally you would also make a gesture after the second goal to signal that the game is over! (note, don't be too pally with big Sam, it will get on our nerves!).

[Ageing Stick Insect]

   

can't beat the good old days.

i recently watched an old wembley fa cup final - from the 70s era.  Lovely memories.

football, where did it all go wrong.

To answer your last qustion first. Sky!!

Actually you don't have to go back too far for nice memories. 1-4 at OT and 4-0 home to RM was a special week. 

86 cup final was nice but 89 one shrouded in sadness. The least said about the 96 white suit one the better. 

So, tomorrow is a massive day for the club, the owners and the team not to mention to the poor fans. Even if we do win what will be more important is the nature of the win. Nothing less than an emphatic win without reply will help Roy's chances of staying.

I'm reminded of Gerard's last season. Despite finishing 4th to guarantee CL football it wasn't enough to save him. If Roy continues to play a defensive style and not harrass the opposition when they have possession he will not last. Time to throw caution to the wind if you want to save your job Roy.

I hope the entire ground will give the new owners a welcome they will never forget. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. All the banners must be out and the Kop in full voice. I know it's difficult but they have to imagine that Blackburn is Chelsea circa May 2005. 

[the dude abides]

agreed, ASI.

defensive football will never win anything in the premier league.

but at least with houllier, his defensive football was to some extent successful (4th and 5th finishes each season). 

Roy cannot even make defensive football work to our advantage.

But the age old problem is defence.  It has needed an overhaul now for 2 or 3 years.  Carragher, despite being a great lad, just isn't up to it anymore (if he ever was).  Koncheskey isn't of the right level.  Agger is picking up way too many injuries.  We badly need a young Sami Hyppia (plus a top fullback, who ideally can get forward).

Midfield is a mess too.  Captain Marvel's kryptonite is fading fast and it is very obvious.  Roy's summer buys are struggling, especially Poulsen.  Admittedly it is a big ask to come in and immediately make an impact (new country, club, league, etc).

And Torres is injury prone and appears to have a poor attitude.  He needs a talking to.  He does need support.  Ngog is a good lad, but never good enough to be the key striker at anfield.

I don't know what I want tomorrow.  I'd like to see Roy go.  But I would also hate it to be at the hands of Sam Allardyce (and at anfield).