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Author Topic: The Roy Hodgson Thread  (Read 132953 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #360 on: October 26, 2010, 09:35:08 PM »
some research

Pelligini

Honours as a Manager

Universidad Católica, Copa Interamericana: 1994, Copa Chile: 1995

LDU Quito, Serie A: 1999

San Lorenzo, Primera División: 2001 Clausura, Copa Mercosur: 2001

River Plate, Primera División: 2003 Clausura

Villarreal, UEFA Intertoto Cup: 2004


hmmmm, he hasn't exactly won much.  11 years since anything of note - and that was in south america......and in these past 10 years in europe, all he has won is the intertoto cup (in 2004)

I am reviewing my decision and am going back to Hiddink (for the anfield hotseat).

FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE: LIVERPOOL BOARD (Lord Tes & Sir Rupert Dude) SPLIT ON MANAGER CHOICE

Dude, take a lot at Hiddink's club record. *cringes*

Pellegrini's methods and style of play would be most beneficial both individually and in terms of best utilising the players we've got. His style is similar to that of Ancellotti in many ways. Players such as Malouda have flourished under Ancellotti, much the same way as Forlan benefitted from Pellegrini's coaching.

Ancellotti had seriously gone off the boil at Milan. In terms of footballing style and ethos, Ancellotti was regarded as far too attack minded in Italy, despite having Milan playing a style closer to catenaccio than would be regarded as say a more Spanish freer flowing style. He's taken his style and beliefs and expanded them somewhat at Chelsea and the results aren't too shoddy.
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Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #361 on: October 26, 2010, 09:36:51 PM »
big well-performing clubs that have consistency, have top expertise in the boardroom, Juan.

we have not had that these past 20 years.

moores and parry did real well to bring in Benitez.  But apart from Benitez, what top manager have our board appointed since Bob Paisley 36 years ago.

oh for a peter robinson and john smith on the board.

this is why I would love to see someone like david dein at anfield.

Panel pin with sledge hammer.
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Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #362 on: October 26, 2010, 09:51:18 PM »
Its a shame Tes. When you decide to replace someone like Rafa who achieved what he achieved you dont do it lightly. You ensure whoever is to take his place has all the attributes to be a marked improvement. The board missed their opportunity and the crisis has now moved away from the boardroom and back onto the pitch. Why cant both be run in harmony?

Exactly. Pursestrings or whoever was responsible for the decision (though I can't see who else it would have been) had Dalglish there and should have been totally guided by his area of expertise. I'm sure there would have been other ex club people he could have also ask for advice, the likes of Roy Evans or John Toshack. People who had been around and seen at first hand 'the greats', how they functioned and what was required.  Unfortunately, some people aren't prepared to acknowledge their own limitations to their expertise in certain areas and be humble enough to be guided by those with much greater knowledge. They see asking for help as a sign of weakness, when the real weakness is not having the strength of character to ask for help and advice.
I think both execution and coronation were driven largely by either following the media line or pandering to it. I think it was also driven by board politics and not driven by onfield requirements.

One of the strongest elements of our past success was you replaced with better. If better didn't exist or wasn't available you didn't replace, except when forced to, Souness (the player) being a prime case of forced replacement and not neccessarily betterment.
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Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #363 on: October 26, 2010, 10:30:33 PM »
Exactly. Pursestrings or whoever was responsible for the decision (though I can't see who else it would have been) had Dalglish there and should have been totally guided by his area of expertise. I'm sure there would have been other ex club people he could have also ask for advice, the likes of Roy Evans or John Toshack. People who had been around and seen at first hand 'the greats', how they functioned and what was required.  Unfortunately, some people aren't prepared to acknowledge their own limitations to their expertise in certain areas and be humble enough to be guided by those with much greater knowledge. They see asking for help as a sign of weakness, when the real weakness is not having the strength of character to ask for help and advice.
I think both execution and coronation were driven largely by either following the media line or pandering to it. I think it was also driven by board politics and not driven by onfield requirements.

One of the strongest elements of our past success was you replaced with better. If better didn't exist or wasn't available you didn't replace, except when forced to, Souness (the player) being a prime case of forced replacement and not neccessarily betterment.

Definitely Tes.

I think the most damning indictment of the whole summer saga was Kenny throwing his name in the ring. He didnt do so for some romantic notion of unfinished personal business. He looked at Hodgson and knew he wasnt good enough. But as we know Kennys pleas fell on deaf ears.

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #364 on: October 26, 2010, 10:45:15 PM »
Definitely Tes.

I think the most damning indictment of the whole summer saga was Kenny throwing his name in the ring. He didnt do so for some romantic notion of unfinished personal business. He looked at Hodgson and knew he wasnt good enough. But as we know Kennys pleas fell on deaf ears.

Maybe that backs up the political aspect surrounding any appointment they had in mind. Not convinced about Kenny unless he had an assistant more versed in the sports science and modern tactical thinking. Then, maybe in would have been a goer. Then again, as far as the Premiership at least goes, progressive, technical football is certainly the route to success and Kenny did put together a Liverpool team well versed in that.
I guess I just don't want the legend being tainted in any way.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #365 on: October 26, 2010, 11:29:55 PM »
Dude, take a lot at Hiddink's club record. *cringes*

Pellegrini's methods and style of play would be most beneficial both individually and in terms of best utilising the players we've got. His style is similar to that of Ancellotti in many ways. Players such as Malouda have flourished under Ancellotti, much the same way as Forlan benefitted from Pellegrini's coaching.

Ancellotti had seriously gone off the boil at Milan. In terms of footballing style and ethos, Ancellotti was regarded as far too attack minded in Italy, despite having Milan playing a style closer to catenaccio than would be regarded as say a more Spanish freer flowing style. He's taken his style and beliefs and expanded them somewhat at Chelsea and the results aren't too shoddy.

hiddink's record is better than pele's, tes.

tho he tends to be a mercenary (moving from job to job) - which is what we do not need.

I am not convinced re pele.  There are winners and there are also-rans.  Raniera, Roy Evans, Hodgson, etc are all top men....but they never get the girl.

People like Mourinhio, Benitez, Fergie and Ancellotti get the girl.


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #366 on: October 26, 2010, 11:48:11 PM »
To answer your question ASI neither player might feel Roy is good enough to take this club to where they want their careers to be. I think if someone who has proven to be as loyal as Reina is questioning the manager then thats when people should stand up and take notice. Both players could also walk into any team in the world with the exception of possibly one or two.
That is true. Time will tell I suppose. But if LFC keeps winning then maybe they will feel different and if we don't then Roy will go. Too early to say after one decent 70 minute performance. But I think both will still be here in 12 months. Mark this thread if you ant to discuss it then.

Quote
Its not the January transfer window i would be worried about ASI, its the summer.
All depends on where we finish. Too much water to flow under the bridge to speculate.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #367 on: October 27, 2010, 12:35:23 AM »
possibly troubled waters ahead.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

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Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #368 on: October 27, 2010, 11:36:47 AM »
Roy might be working with the players hes got by the looks of it and the stories are been carried in two papers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8088587/Liverpool-to-stay-clear-of-big-money-signings-in-January-transfer-window.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/hodgson-to-be-denied-big-signing-in-january-2117523.html

Liverpool to stay clear of big-money signings in January transfer window
Roy Hodgson will not target any marquee signings in the January transfer window as Liverpool's new owner, New England Sports Ventures, looks to put a stop to the profligate spending which it believes has hampered the club's progress in recent years.

NESV is believed to have been concerned by the millions of pounds haemorrhaged on transfer fees and wages by the club in recent years as it examined Liverpool's finances as part of the due diligence process carried out before the £300 million purchase of the Anfield side was completed.

Under Rafael Benítez, Liverpool spent more than £230 million in six years on fees alone – though much of that was recouped in sales – while the purchases of the likes of Raul Meireles, Christian Poulsen, Brad Jones and Paul Konchesky totalled £25 million in Hodgson's first summer at the club.
 
   
Though NESV's takeover freed up £36 million a year of revenue that had previously been used to service Liverpool's £282 million debts to be reinvested into the club, and though its offer did make provision for an immediate injection of funds into the playing staff, the American consortium has made it clear it expects value for money, both from fees and salaries.

"We have to be smart," John W Henry, NESV's principal backer, who will assume a place on Liverpool's board, said after the deal was completed.

"We have to be more efficient. When we spend a dollar it has to be wisely. We cannot afford player contracts that do not make long-term sense. We have to be smart, bold, aggressive. It's a great challenge."

Henry will take an active role in football matters at Anfield, assessing both Hodgson's suggested transfer targets and setting budgets for contract renegotiations of players already at the club.

The 61 year-old has already expressed his concern at the wages earned by older players on long-term, high-value contracts.

NESV's approach – applied with great success at the Boston Red Sox – is likely to rule Liverpool out of the glamour signings which many fans hoped would follow the eviction of previous owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

Instead, the club's recent scouting activity suggests they intend to follow the a*senal model – for which NESV has been keen to stress its admiration – or, perhaps more pertinently, institute on an informal basis the transfer policy employed at Manchester United, where premium fees are only paid for younger players with resale potential.

"At the Boston Red Sox, we invested a lot in management and the scouting system," said NESV chairman Tom Werner.

"We believe the foundation of any good sports club has to be the experience, valuation and understanding of scouting, so we will invest in that as well."

Those players assessed by Hodgson and his scouting team in recent weeks include Steven Defour, the Standard Liège captain and a long-term target for the Liverpool manager.

At 22, and around £12 million, Defour represents minimum risk for maximum reward.

Likewise Ibrahim Afellay, the PSV Eindhoven winger Liverpool whom have assessed on several occasions.

Already a Dutch international at 24 and heralded for several years as one of the brightest prospects in Europe, Afellay would fall within Liverpool's budget, while his wage demands would remain comparatively modest.

More expensive would be Eden Hazard, Defour's Belgian international team-mate, currently with Lille.

The 19 year-old has attracted interest from Barcelona, Real Madrid, a*senal, Chelsea and United, and could cost as much as £18 million.

However, Liverpool believe they can tempt the player – who is likely to be advised by his agent to seek a move to a club where he will play regular first-team football – and Kenny Dalglish was watching when the French side played Levski Sofia in the Europa League last Thursday.

Hodgson will not be allowed to add any players, though, without first trimming the squad. Liverpool boast the fourth-highest wage bill in the Premier League – standing at £107 million in 2009, according to football finance analysts Deloitte – but find themselves marooned in 18th place in the table, having finished seventh in Benítez's last campaign.

NESV does not blame Hodgson for that poor performance so far this season, but rather interprets it as evidence that many of the squad do not warrant either their reputations or their earnings.

Henry's experience as a futures trader, as well as his noted obsession with both sporting and financial statistics, put him in a perfect position to analyse such information.

He is acutely aware that figures suggest that, with almost unerring accuracy, a club's league position is defined by their wage bill. That Liverpool's key statistics are so discordant suggests the money is not being spent wisely.

He is also a devotee of Sabermetrics, the statistical analysis of the value of baseball players, pioneered by Bill James and which led Henry to appoint Theo Epstein as a general manager of the Boston Red Sox in 2002 at the age of 28.

Epstein applied James's principles – which are designed to help poorer teams identify value-for-money acquisitions – to lead the franchise to two World Series with a squad largely composed of bargain purchases.

Initial impressions of his time at Liverpool suggest he retains his faith in the method.

Seven deals that would not have happened under NESV regime

Fernando Morientes
The Spanish international, signed for £6.3 million as a 28 year-old in January 2005, failed miserably at Anfield, scoring just 12 goals in 61 appearances. NESV’s belief in signing young players would have precluded the deal.

Robbie Keane
Signed as a 28 year-old for £20.3 million in 2008, the Irish international would also have been judged by NESV to be too old to warrant such a premium fee.

Alberto Aquilani
Though the Italian international’s age (26) and pedigree would have still made him a legitimate target, concerns over his injury record would have ruled out a £17 million move for the Roma player, now on loan at Juventus.

Jamie Carragher
John W Henry may have been concerned by the sight of a 32 year-old being handed a lucrative two-year contract just before NESV completed its takeover.

Maxi Rodríguez
The Argentine international, age 29, came on a free transfer from Atlético Madrid boasting a fine pedigree, but his wages, believed to be around £70,000 a week until June 2013, may have discouraged NESV from such a long contract.

Paul Konchesky
A four-year contract for a 29 year-old – as well as a £5 million fee – does not match the profile of deal NESV believes can help Liverpool develop in the long-term.

Roy Hodgson
A three-year contract for a 63 year old - no track record of success in any major league in the world - NESV could have rightly mistaken Roy's application as being for the role of Melwood's chief dinner lady. He's made a meal of most jobs up to now.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 11:38:07 AM by Juan »

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #369 on: October 27, 2010, 12:42:33 PM »
Roy might be working with the players hes got by the looks of it and the stories are been carried in two papers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8088587/Liverpool-to-stay-clear-of-big-money-signings-in-January-transfer-window.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/hodgson-to-be-denied-big-signing-in-january-2117523.html

Liverpool to stay clear of big-money signings in January transfer window
Roy Hodgson will not target any marquee signings in the January transfer window as Liverpool's new owner, New England Sports Ventures, looks to put a stop to the profligate spending which it believes has hampered the club's progress in recent years.

NESV is believed to have been concerned by the millions of pounds haemorrhaged on transfer fees and wages by the club in recent years as it examined Liverpool's finances as part of the due diligence process carried out before the £300 million purchase of the Anfield side was completed.

Under Rafael Benítez, Liverpool spent more than £230 million in six years on fees alone – though much of that was recouped in sales – while the purchases of the likes of Raul Meireles, Christian Poulsen, Brad Jones and Paul Konchesky totalled £25 million in Hodgson's first summer at the club.
 
   
Though NESV's takeover freed up £36 million a year of revenue that had previously been used to service Liverpool's £282 million debts to be reinvested into the club, and though its offer did make provision for an immediate injection of funds into the playing staff, the American consortium has made it clear it expects value for money, both from fees and salaries.

"We have to be smart," John W Henry, NESV's principal backer, who will assume a place on Liverpool's board, said after the deal was completed.

"We have to be more efficient. When we spend a dollar it has to be wisely. We cannot afford player contracts that do not make long-term sense. We have to be smart, bold, aggressive. It's a great challenge."

Henry will take an active role in football matters at Anfield, assessing both Hodgson's suggested transfer targets and setting budgets for contract renegotiations of players already at the club.

The 61 year-old has already expressed his concern at the wages earned by older players on long-term, high-value contracts.

NESV's approach – applied with great success at the Boston Red Sox – is likely to rule Liverpool out of the glamour signings which many fans hoped would follow the eviction of previous owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

Instead, the club's recent scouting activity suggests they intend to follow the a*senal model – for which NESV has been keen to stress its admiration – or, perhaps more pertinently, institute on an informal basis the transfer policy employed at Manchester United, where premium fees are only paid for younger players with resale potential.

"At the Boston Red Sox, we invested a lot in management and the scouting system," said NESV chairman Tom Werner.

"We believe the foundation of any good sports club has to be the experience, valuation and understanding of scouting, so we will invest in that as well."

Those players assessed by Hodgson and his scouting team in recent weeks include Steven Defour, the Standard Liège captain and a long-term target for the Liverpool manager.

At 22, and around £12 million, Defour represents minimum risk for maximum reward.

Likewise Ibrahim Afellay, the PSV Eindhoven winger Liverpool whom have assessed on several occasions.

Already a Dutch international at 24 and heralded for several years as one of the brightest prospects in Europe, Afellay would fall within Liverpool's budget, while his wage demands would remain comparatively modest.

More expensive would be Eden Hazard, Defour's Belgian international team-mate, currently with Lille.

The 19 year-old has attracted interest from Barcelona, Real Madrid, a*senal, Chelsea and United, and could cost as much as £18 million.

However, Liverpool believe they can tempt the player – who is likely to be advised by his agent to seek a move to a club where he will play regular first-team football – and Kenny Dalglish was watching when the French side played Levski Sofia in the Europa League last Thursday.

Hodgson will not be allowed to add any players, though, without first trimming the squad. Liverpool boast the fourth-highest wage bill in the Premier League – standing at £107 million in 2009, according to football finance analysts Deloitte – but find themselves marooned in 18th place in the table, having finished seventh in Benítez's last campaign.

NESV does not blame Hodgson for that poor performance so far this season, but rather interprets it as evidence that many of the squad do not warrant either their reputations or their earnings.

Henry's experience as a futures trader, as well as his noted obsession with both sporting and financial statistics, put him in a perfect position to analyse such information.

He is acutely aware that figures suggest that, with almost unerring accuracy, a club's league position is defined by their wage bill. That Liverpool's key statistics are so discordant suggests the money is not being spent wisely.

He is also a devotee of Sabermetrics, the statistical analysis of the value of baseball players, pioneered by Bill James and which led Henry to appoint Theo Epstein as a general manager of the Boston Red Sox in 2002 at the age of 28.

Epstein applied James's principles – which are designed to help poorer teams identify value-for-money acquisitions – to lead the franchise to two World Series with a squad largely composed of bargain purchases.

Initial impressions of his time at Liverpool suggest he retains his faith in the method.

Seven deals that would not have happened under NESV regime

Fernando Morientes
The Spanish international, signed for £6.3 million as a 28 year-old in January 2005, failed miserably at Anfield, scoring just 12 goals in 61 appearances. NESV’s belief in signing young players would have precluded the deal.

Robbie Keane
Signed as a 28 year-old for £20.3 million in 2008, the Irish international would also have been judged by NESV to be too old to warrant such a premium fee.

Alberto Aquilani
Though the Italian international’s age (26) and pedigree would have still made him a legitimate target, concerns over his injury record would have ruled out a £17 million move for the Roma player, now on loan at Juventus.

Jamie Carragher
John W Henry may have been concerned by the sight of a 32 year-old being handed a lucrative two-year contract just before NESV completed its takeover.

Maxi Rodríguez
The Argentine international, age 29, came on a free transfer from Atlético Madrid boasting a fine pedigree, but his wages, believed to be around £70,000 a week until June 2013, may have discouraged NESV from such a long contract.

Paul Konchesky
A four-year contract for a 29 year-old – as well as a £5 million fee – does not match the profile of deal NESV believes can help Liverpool develop in the long-term.

Roy Hodgson
A three-year contract for a 63 year old - no track record of success in any major league in the world - NESV could have rightly mistaken Roy's application as being for the role of Melwood's chief dinner lady. He's made a meal of most jobs up to now.

I don't see any problems there. We need to be smarter like Arsenal are and get ourselves outside of the current football bubble. That way when it does burst we will be in the best position to hopefully take advantage and not let Arsenal have it all to themselves.

Two players readily spring to mind that highlight the problem, Gary Cahill and Adam Johnson. Both players in positions we've needed strengthening. Both English, and it's not as though the limits came as a bolt out of the blue.
Cahill was let go by Villa for £5M. After his first season he was being valued at double that, now it's nearer treble that.
Johnson, contract due to run out at end of '09/'10 season. City bought him Jan 2010. Summer '09 he'd have been available. Since '07/'08 it's been obvious how talented he was. Would have been a much smarter purchase than Riera in Summer '08, or as a replacement in Summer '09 as Riera had already proved to be pretty average after a reasonable start. http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/liverpool-fc/the-rumour-post/msg7234/#msg7234     
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Kopite999

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #370 on: October 27, 2010, 03:38:27 PM »
Someone told me today that in 66 away games as a manager in the premier league Hodgson has won 6!!!!!!Can anyone back this up with stats? Because that isnt a record for a liverpool manager

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #371 on: October 27, 2010, 03:44:00 PM »
Welcome to my world Kopite. Id say its bang on the money. when he was at Fulham he had something like 2 wins away in 2 seasons.

He conned his way into the Liverpool job.

Offline Kopite999

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #372 on: October 27, 2010, 04:17:14 PM »
Maybe we should give the LFC job to the Brentford manager that had a good run in the league cup this year!!

Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #373 on: October 27, 2010, 04:46:12 PM »
I'd like to put myself forward.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #374 on: October 27, 2010, 06:58:01 PM »
Maybe we should give the LFC job to the Brentford manager that had a good run in the league cup this year!!

He'd need a manager of the month award for serious consideration.