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Author Topic: The Roy Hodgson Thread  (Read 132006 times)

Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #405 on: October 28, 2010, 10:34:20 PM »
Well not if we beat Bolton and Chelsea it won't dude. It's hard to say what would be a defining game or games. Opinion can change very quickly depending not just on results but perfomances. If it's clear that Roy is using tactics that the players are not happy with then things could go pear-shaped as soon as Sunday.

I've watched the debate about possible replacements and there isn't a clear winner. Would a foreign manager be able to get to grips with the Prem League straight away? How would he fare in a transfer market? I'm not saying Roy is good in this area but I do think it's important that a replacement is chosen carefully. And if we can't agree what chance the owners can?

As for Chelsea hammering us? Don't think it would happen. In all the time I've supported Liverpool I can never remember a hammering especially at home.

I recall arsenal pasting us 6-2 at anfield, nbot so long ago.

chelsea are balanced and on form.  Our midfield and defence is frail at best....and a joke at worst.  I fear the worst.  A 3 or 4 nil drubbing would I feel signal Roy's p45 (that evening/weekend).

as for replacements.....there is never total agreement.  I'd definitely go european again (despite what pri.cks like james lawton spews in the Mail).  That is where talent comes from.  That is where a manager's knowledge has to be (of what is emerging and available on the european mainland). 

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #406 on: October 29, 2010, 10:44:51 AM »
To be honest I think its inconceivable for people to blame the failings of a team that contains players like Reina, Meireles, Gerrard, Cole, torres etc on Benitez. Agree wholeheartedly with the below article.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/liverpool-fc/2010/10/29/comment-former-liverpool-fc-boss-benitez-not-to-blame-for-roy-hodgson-s-mess-55578-27563021/

Former Liverpool FC boss Benitez not to blame for Roy Hodgson’s mess
Oct 29 2010 by Ben Thornley, Daily Post

NOT since William Shakespeare gave Richard III a hump has a figure endured as much revisionism at the hands of English writers as Rafa Benitez.

As Liverpool manager, Benitez once quipped that he was “blamed for everything, for global warming to high petrol prices”.

It is only since he left Anfield, however, that the real finger-pointing began.

Even Benitez’s most ardent supporter – which this observer certainly was not – would concede that the Inter Milan boss made a series of mistakes in his final years on Merseyside, that contributed to Liverpool missing out on the title in 2009 and the top four last season.

His greatest blunder, though, appears to have been failing to play the game of the English Press, who have assigned culpability for Roy Hodgson’s abysmal start at the Reds helm to Benitez.

Tellingly, the Spaniard endured harsher Fleet Street criticism when guiding Liverpool to the summit of the Premier League in 2008 than his successor did after leaving the club second from bottom following a humiliating 2-0 Merseyside derby defeat.

Apparently, it’s not the Londoner’s fault that Liverpool have made their poorest start to a top-flight campaign since they were relegated in the 1950s.

Forget the regressive tactics, the defeatist press conferences, spending close to £10m on Paul Konchesky and Christian Poulsen or playing his marquee signing Raul Merieles out of position.

No, if you believe everything you read in the national papers, Liverpool are sat in the bottom three because of Benitez’s record in the transfer market.

This despite the former Valencia coach leaving behind 13 players who featured for their countries during this summer’s World Cup and three signings in Pepe Reina, Fernando Torres and Javier Mascherano considered to be among the finest in their position in the game.

And as pointed out in this column last week, nine players who featured in the 4-1 victory over United at Old Trafford are still in Liverpool’s ranks.

Admittedly, Benitez was a deeply frustrating figure who made a handful of blunders in the transfer market.

Forcing the exit of Xabi Alonso, who was key to the 4-2-3-1 system favoured by Benitez, ranks among his worst – as does his choice for the Basque’s replacement, Alberto Aquilani.

But Aquilani – currently impressing at Juventus – was only a poor buy because he was unavailable until late in the season.

And it wasn’t Benitez who sent him back to Italy on loan for a season once he was match fit, while spending what little money was available on a player who occupies the same position.

When a player left Anfield under the Madrid-born coach it was often at a profit, something which is usually ignored when assessing his transfer record. Like the concept of net spend.

His critics use the high turnover of players during his tenure as a stick to beat him with, while arguing the irrelevance of transfer funds received.

To borrow a line from the excellent Liverpool FC writer Paul Tomkins, when you tell someone how much your house cost you don’t tell them the sum of every property you have ever bought.

And Benitez traded at a significant profit during his final 18 months in charge, as the club’s debts began to bite.

The 50-year-old should be remembered as a Liverpool legend after delivering the Champions League in 2005, but there are individuals seemingly intent on destroying his legacy.

At the root of this revisionism is the usual mix of xenophobia and patriotism, a resentment of foreign coaches taking the top Premier League jobs – regardless of their pedigree – and a desire to see English bosses get their chance. Again, regardless of their pedigree – see Hodgson.

There’s also a less noble motivation behind these journalists wanting British bosses in charge of the elite clubs – they tend to be more open to the Press.

In his entire six-year Anfield stay, Benitez granted just one exclusive interview with a national – The Times.

It’s not that the Spaniard treated the media poorly. Regardless of however intense the interrogation became, Benitez would almost always respond politely and with a smile, no matter how rude his inquisitor.

Something which can’t be said of the tetchy Hodgson.

Every question, no matter how simple, is met with “what do you mean by that, what are you trying to say?”.

Scandinavian and Italian journalists report similar experiences, expressing bemusement at his portrayal as an English gentleman on these shores.

Indeed, his derisory comments about the abilities of La Liga and Champions League-winning coach Frank Rijkaard, after the Dutchman was linked to the Liverpool job, were pitiful.

Hodgson would swap all of his trophies won in the backwaters of Europe for just one of the former Barcelona coach’s.

Liverpool fans would happily trade Hodgson for Rijkaard.


Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #407 on: October 29, 2010, 11:57:57 AM »
great article, Juan.

the key section, for me, was:

"At the root of this revisionism is the usual mix of xenophobia and patriotism, a resentment of foreign coaches taking the top Premier League jobs – regardless of their pedigree – and a desire to see English bosses get their chance. Again, regardless of their pedigree – see Hodgson.

There’s also a less noble motivation behind these journalists wanting British bosses in charge of the elite clubs – they tend to be more open to the Press."
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #408 on: October 29, 2010, 12:00:26 PM »
I have to say that I thought James Lawton's repeatedly vicious attacks on Rafa (and Liverpool) across that last season, were way beyond the pale. 

That guy deserves a punch on the nose.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

FowlersGod

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #409 on: October 29, 2010, 02:21:12 PM »
Thanks for the welcome guys.

This weekend is huge for Hodgson, a win at Bolton might just take the pressure off him a little but I have a feeling deep down we will be lucky to get a point from the game on Sunday. Bolton are good at home and the performance of Blackburn last weekend help us in some ways to get the victory.

Roy's last stand, who knows?

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #410 on: October 29, 2010, 05:15:23 PM »
I recall a*senal pasting us 6-2 at anfield, nbot so long ago.
I'm not sure of the team we put out for that but as it was the League Cup it probably wasn't our first team. We also lost 1-4 at home to Chelsea back in October 2005 - 5 months after winning the CL. Both under Rafa. It happens to all teams occasionally. Look at Arsenal 0-3 down to West Brom the other week whereas we beat them 1-0. Football - bloody 'ell as someone once said.

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chelsea are balanced and on form.  Our midfield and defence is frail at best....and a joke at worst.  I fear the worst.  A 3 or 4 nil drubbing would I feel signal Roy's p45 (that evening/weekend).
All setup for a shock home win then!  ;D

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as for replacements.....there is never total agreement.  I'd definitely go european again (despite what pri.cks like james lawton spews in the Mail).  That is where talent comes from.  That is where a manager's knowledge has to be (of what is emerging and available on the european mainland). 
I haven't kept my finger on the pulse regarding available foreign managers. I do it sad that this country cannot produce quality managers any more.  :(
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #411 on: October 30, 2010, 12:43:04 AM »
If it's clear that Roy is using tactics that the players are not happy with then things could go pear-shaped as soon as Sunday.

I think that is the absolute crux of the problem. I think it was also the same when we kicked off the '09/'10 season, after playing the way we did in the last third of the '08/'09 season. The players looked deflated and less than inspired by being back to the same old tactics again. Likewise this season. The way we played against Blackburn, especially with both central midfielders getting forward, as opposed  to playing as a deep lying defensive shield, whilst  offering nothing when we had possession, is definately the way forward. It's no coincidence that Meireles, Lucas and Maxi looked better players in that system and way of playing. Hodgson needs to stick to it. There may be a few teething troubles here and there but he needs to resist the temptation of going back to his overly cautious 'trying only to avoid getting beaten' approach. Houllier failed to resist the temptation, as did Benitez.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #412 on: October 30, 2010, 01:03:02 AM »
all well and good.

but if you're gonna be attack-minded and throw the kitchen sink at teams, you got to have at least a decent defence.

we have neither a decent defence, nor midfield.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

FowlersGod

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #413 on: October 30, 2010, 09:51:00 AM »
all well and good.

but if you're gonna be attack-minded and throw the kitchen sink at teams, you got to have at least a decent defence.

we have neither a decent defence, nor midfield.

We'd have a decent defence and midfield if it was setup properly by Hodgson.

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #414 on: October 30, 2010, 11:45:13 AM »
all well and good.

but if you're gonna be attack-minded and throw the kitchen sink at teams, you got to have at least a decent defence.

we have neither a decent defence, nor midfield.

The defence is pretty much the same that was always tight and had one of the lowest 'goals against' totals regularly under Benitez. Something's missing.

Dude, it's about being more positive and attack minded, like we were against Blackburn, where our central midfielders were often in their half, even around the edge of 'their' penalty area, as opposed to ours. Also pressing of the opponents needs to be done higher up the pitch.
Positive, as opposed to 'gung ho', Keegan-style.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #415 on: October 30, 2010, 01:25:15 PM »
all well and good.

but if you're gonna be attack-minded and throw the kitchen sink at teams, you got to have at least a decent defence.

we have neither a decent defence, nor midfield.

Sorrry, can't agree with that. We have some good or very good players who are being given instructions to play defensively instead of being more attack-minded which I'm sure is natural for players like Cole, Gerrard and Meireles.

I agree that with Carragher and Koncheski on the defensive flanks we are vunerable to fast wingers but Skrtel and Soto are becoming a decent central defensive partnership. Soto especially is having a good season.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #416 on: October 30, 2010, 02:46:37 PM »
sorry, I disagree.

the liverpool defence, in my experience, has never been weaker.

carra hasn't been up to it for 2 seasons or so.......Koncheski is not liverpool level..........the big greek lad is all heart and inspirational, but he is not liverpool class.

but we also have no protection in front of these lads.  midfield is very weak.

if we attack bolton, it could be a keeganesque scoreline, with us coming out on top if we are lucky.........if we attack chelsea at anfield, we will be slaughtered.  :(

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Kopite999

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #417 on: October 30, 2010, 02:48:18 PM »
Its playing as a unit that is our problem. Look at Inter last year. Mourinho had Eto tracking back and defending and he didnt complain once. Eto wouldnt have done that at Barca.Its about the manager getting players working for the benefit of the team and working as a TEAM.  To be honest i'd rather win 1-0 than lose 4-3.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #418 on: October 30, 2010, 05:19:53 PM »
sorry, I disagree.
No need to apologise. I don't expect everyone to agree with me because it would become a very boring forum.  ;)

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the liverpool defence, in my experience, has never been weaker.
I'm not suggesting that given some money I wouldn't replace the current players. But as long as you score more than the opposition conceding a goal isn't terminal. Pepe wouldn't like it of course but would you take a 2-1 win over a 0-0 draw?

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carra hasn't been up to it for 2 seasons or so.......Koncheski is not liverpool level..........the big greek lad is all heart and inspirational, but he is not liverpool class.
We can't change any of those until Jan except try the likes of Kelly et al.

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but we also have no protection in front of these lads.  midfield is very weak.
Lucas can do a job but isn't up to the level of Masch. But defensively I'd say he is better than Alonso was.

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if we attack bolton, it could be a keeganesque scoreline, with us coming out on top if we are lucky.........if we attack chelsea at anfield, we will be slaughtered.  :(
Disagree on both points. Chelsea struggled to beat Blackburn today. Football is not an exact science. People have off days. We could but then we've had lots so far. Bolton are due one.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #419 on: October 30, 2010, 06:07:24 PM »
ASI, I totally agree re the need to be offensive to win the premiership.

But we don't have the personnel (nor the organisation), at the the moment, to be so offensive.

Houllier was woefully negative (and would never have won the premiership).  But for me, Rafa was spot-on re the balance between offence and defence.  And that IMHO is key to being a top manager - getting the balance right.  Some argued that Rafa was overly negative at times....and perhaps they had a case.  I prefer to think though that he knew his limitations, personnel wise, and stepped back at times (from going for the opposition's throat).  But you don't hammer real madrid and man utd by four goals if you're a negative boss.

Roy, I just don't rate (tactical wise) at the top level. 

But as you say, all opinions......a boring place if we all agreed.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.