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Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #450 on: November 01, 2010, 10:32:56 PM »
Thanks Tes. Democracy appears dead in the UK and the EU. We don't even get a referendum on whether we should stay in the communistic-style EU. I don't use that word lightly. When Ireland votes no on the Lisbon Treaty it is told that is the wrong answer and told to vote again. 15 months later it gives the 'correct' answer under pain of economic meltdown. There are only two letters difference between communism and community. Speaks volumes doesn't it?  >:( :(

And tonight it's announced we're cooperating with the French on military matters. The Duke of Wellington would be outraged.

I blame George Orwell's Animal Farm. Seriously though, a trading community, standing together in unity (where feasible) to provide strength against the likes of the Americans and now China in trade and trade derived economics as fine, but anything else is essentially unworkable.

As for relying on the French for co-operation in anything. To be relied upon you need to be reliable. To co-operate you need to have a degree of flexibility. I can't think of any French government that I would ever credit with those qualities.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #451 on: November 01, 2010, 10:39:01 PM »
How true Tes. If you're under 53 you've never had a chance to vote on 'Europe'. I voted for a Common Market in '75 because that's all it was then. All politicians promise the earth before they're elected and deliver diddly-squat when they get into power.

How long before the French navy or air force goes on strike? Quite frankly, I'd rather be in bed with the Germans!

Anyway, back to footie matters. I think Roy needs to button it regarding Kenny and expensive flops and just concentrate on getting results. We've had enough washing of our linen in public. I don't think Mr Henry will be impressed!
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #452 on: November 01, 2010, 11:10:18 PM »
Quite frankly, I'd rather be in bed with the Germans!

I thought I was the only one who thought like that. Welcome the Deutsche Bahn.


Quote
Anyway, back to footie matters. I think Roy needs to button it regarding Kenny and expensive flops and just concentrate on getting results. We've had enough washing of our linen in public. I don't think Mr Henry will be impressed!

I thought one of the attractions of Roy was that he wasn't political, was a gentleman, kept his council on all things and only talked about the game in terms of the last 90 minutes or the next 90 minutes.
Everything seems to distract him from the job at hand, a job he's trying to overly justify as being a huge rebuilding job. We finished seventh, not seventeenth. Yes we lost Masch but we're not ten places weaker for that. If the players are utilised to their strengths, we should, and even more so considering the unconvincing starts overall that Spurs and Man City have made, be in the thick of the challenge for a CL spot.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #453 on: November 01, 2010, 11:13:55 PM »
like you Juan, I'd love to see Rafa back too (along with Packo).

There'd be a number of conditions I'd want meeting before I'd agree with you Juan and Dude.

Here's an interesting piece re Rafa from the BBC:

Rafael Benitez reborn with Inter Milan in Serie A

By Sam Sheringham  Monday, 1 November 2010


At the start of the season, Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson was asked about the implications of Rafael Benitez replacing the Real Madrid-bound Jose Mourinho at Inter Milan.

"They favour Madrid, no doubt about that," was the characteristically blunt response from Ferguson.

While the lingering animosity between Ferguson and his former Liverpool sparring partner Benitez made his assessment predictable, the Scot's view reflected the general consensus that Madrid were getting the better deal and that all-conquering Inter would be weakened under the stewardship of a coach whose reputation nose-dived during a dismal final season at Anfield.

Three months into Benitez's tenure at the Italian and European champions and opinions are starting to change. Slowly but surely, the Spaniard is winning over the hearts and minds of fans, pundits and the all-important Italian press, who fell out so dramatically with Mourinho.

A solid if unspectacular start to the Serie A season - Inter are second, four points behind surprise leaders Lazio - has been overshadowed by a confident opening to the defence of their Champions League title, which resumes against Tottenham at White Hart Lane on Tuesday night.

A 2-2 draw at FC Twente was followed by a 4-0 thrashing of Werder Bremen and a first-half demolition of Spurs at the San Siro, during which Inter played with a flair and swagger rarely seen under Mourinho.

Although Gareth Bale's stunning hat-trick for the north Londoners narrowed the scoreline to 4-3, it did little to alter the impression that the holders would take some beating in this season's competition.

"In some ways their football is even better than last season," said John Foot, author of Calcio: The History of Italian Football. "It's less cagey, less Catenaccio-esque than Mourinho would play.

"The first half hour against Tottenham was pretty expansive football and the team can almost play with its eyes closed now. It's already clear that they are going to be in contention for all these trophies right to the end of the season."

Italian football analyst Tor-Kristian Karlsen says Benitez's Inter are less liable to sit back and soak up pressure than they were under Mourinho during the 2009-10 campaign.

"The team keep the ball more under Benitez and the defensive line is usually pushed higher up the pitch," added Karlsen, a well-travelled scout and regular columnist for Calcio Italia magazine.

"Mourinho was more focused on defence and relied more on counter-attacks and the magic of individual players than the collective, rehearsed moves favoured by the Spaniard."

By any measure, Benitez had a hard act to follow. Mourinho's achievement of winning an unprecedented Treble of Italian league, cup and Champions League ensured any successor was almost certainly doomed to a degree of failure.

Whereas Serie A rivals AC Milan and Juventus spent heavily to enhance their squads for the 2010-11 season, Inter chose not to add to their resources, instead offloading the volatile but talented striker Mario Balotelli to Manchester City.

Benitez has kept faith with the 4-2-3-1 formation preferred by his Portuguese predecessor, but the subtle adjustments he has made to the side are reaping rewards.

The Spaniard's main alteration has been to end Samuel Eto'o's period of exile on the right wing and restore him to his favoured role as a central striker. The former Barcelona frontman has responded with a blistering start to the season, scoring 13 goals in 12 games.

Benitez has also given youth a chance, with 18-year-old Brazilian Coutinho and 22-year-old Jonathan Biabiany of France both returning from loan spells to force their way into the side. The duo were outstanding in the victory over Spurs, adding flair and dynamism to Inter's attacking play.

"I think Rafa is giving more players a chance," Foot commented. "All Mourinho teams have a backbone of the older guard. It's nice to see Rafa experimenting a little bit more. There's a lot of pressure on Wesley Sneijder to create everything but they need someone else. Coutinho looks to have that spark about him."

Mourinho's two-year tenure at Inter was characterised by extraordinary success on the field but plenty of ill-feeling off it. The former Chelsea and Porto boss had countless fallouts with journalists and other managers, his polemical behaviour prompting Catania director of football Pietro Lo Monaco to claim he "deserves a smack in the mouth".

In March, Mourinho declared he was unhappy in Italian football "because I don't like it and it doesn't like me." He expressed a yearning for a return to the Premier League, where his charisma and arrogance drew nostalgic comparisons with legendary Nottingham Forest manager Brian Clough.

In contrast, Benitez's reserved character and guarded discourse with the press seemed to irk fans and journalists in England, but it makes him a much better fit for the old-fashioned ways of Italian football, according to Karlsen.

"Unsurprisingly his entry has been a lot less controversial than Mourinho's. Whereas the Portuguese set his own agenda from day one, Benitez has been somewhat more diplomatic, on the whole showing respect to fellow coaches and the football environment. This is important to Italians who value their own school of thinking and traditions," Karlsen reflected.

"I don't think Benitez got the credit he deserved in England. Partly because he didn't offer the sound bites and easy conclusions that make you a tabloid favourite, but also because his thinking and ideas on football may have been too prudent and unsexy to win over the ever so demanding supporters.

"It's interesting to see how even the Liverpool supporters are spilt when it comes to Rafa. It's either love or hate, genius or idiot. I can't remember a manager or even a player stirring up the same mixed emotions."

One area in which Benitez divides opinion is his dealings in the transfer market. Pundits such as former Reds defender Alan Hansen have lambasted the Spaniard over big-money flops like Robbie Keane, Alberto Aquilani and Andrea Dossena, while his successor in the Anfield hot-seat Roy Hodgson last week bemoaned the number of "expensive failures" at the club.

Others such as respected writer and blogger Paul Tomkins has argued that Benitez has been unfairly maligned and prefer to highlight success stories like Pepe Reina, Fernando Torres and Javier Mascherano.

Wherever the truth lies, Benitez is unlikely to play such a central role in buying players at Inter, where sporting director Marco Branca and owner Massimo Moratti have the final say in new signings.

According to Paco Lloret, Benitez's biographer and close friend, this system will suit the Spaniard, as it more closely resembles that which was in place during his time at Valencia, where he won two Spanish league titles and a Uefa Cup.

"Benitez is a much better trainer than a finder of players," Lloret stated. "He knows how to design systems and work with a team. Others might have a better eye for a player, but they wouldn't know how to train them like Rafa Benitez does.

"Benitez likes working behind closed doors. Everything which surrounds a club, like the media, Benitez knows it's important but he doesn't see it as a priority."

In returning to White Hart Lane on Tuesday night, Benitez is revisiting the ground where his Liverpool tenure began to unravel in August 2009.

Having taken Manchester United right to the wire in the 2008-09 season, Liverpool went into the following campaign with high hopes of ending their 20-year wait for the title, only to suffer a morale-shattering 2-1 defeat to Spurs on the opening day.

Early exits from the Champions League and both domestic cups followed and a seventh-place Premier League finish in May brought a sorry end to a regime that had begun with an stunning European Cup triumph over AC Milan in 2005.

And while many fans directed their ire at detested former American co-owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett, there is little doubt that Benitez departed Anfield with his status considerably diminished.
"Right now Rafa faces a challenge to restore his reputation because his departure from Liverpool wasn't good," Lloret continued. "He's made a good start but there's a long way to go."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9140414.stm



« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 11:17:37 PM by Tes »
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #454 on: November 01, 2010, 11:57:29 PM »
Guys, I think we ought to show Hodgson a bit more respect!

Granted he's not my first-choice for the job (in a million years!) and thought he was close to deserving the sack 2 or 3 games ago!

To give him his dues though, he has withstood enormous pressure and got some points on the board. Fair play! Even his press conferences are improving (he just needs to spectacularly fall out with Ferguson!). Maybe, we're approaching base camp, before ascending the table? Anyway,  the point is, with the Liverpool gig there's no place to hide, so he'll be found out soon enough if the recent wins were just fortunate (Blackburn missing their centre halves etc.), but in the meantime he's getting a bit of my grudging support!

Thats fair enough Ed and there are plenty of fans out there that feel he deserves support.

For me it would be hypocritical to start supporting him now on the back of two wins. Nothing has changed, I still think hes grossly out of his depth. His press conferences and constant excuse making is actually getting worse in my opinion. The fact that he has had a pop at Benitez's "flops" again for me is hugely embarrassing when you consider Roy seems to have wasted money on the likes of Poulsen who he previously worked with and is no way Liverpool quality. The jurys also out on Konchesky.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #455 on: November 02, 2010, 12:09:19 AM »

I thought one of the attractions of Roy was that he wasn't political, was a gentleman, kept his council on all things and only talked about the game in terms of the last 90 minutes or the next 90 minutes.
Everything seems to distract him from the job at hand, a job he's trying to overly justify as being a huge rebuilding job. We finished seventh, not seventeenth. Yes we lost Masch but we're not ten places weaker for that. If the players are utilised to their strengths, we should, and even more so considering the unconvincing starts overall that Spurs and Man City have made, be in the thick of the challenge for a CL spot.

Tes I think his well spoken manner is deceiving because initially I thought his press conferences were a breath of fresh air. Now for me they are just embarrassing. His latest pop at rafa's signings should see Sammy Lee take over press duties. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Roy blames his tools, the previous tradesman's tools , the previous tradesman, the electrician, the plumber, the plumbers wife, the owner of the hardware store and Woodies DIY.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 12:10:41 AM by Juan »

Clem

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #456 on: November 02, 2010, 10:04:40 AM »
Guys, I think we ought to show Hodgson a bit more respect!

Granted he's not my first-choice for the job (in a million years!) and thought he was close to deserving the sack 2 or 3 games ago!

To give him his dues though, he has withstood enormous pressure and got some points on the board. Fair play! Even his press conferences are improving (he just needs to spectacularly fall out with Ferguson!). Maybe, we're approaching base camp, before ascending the table? Anyway,  the point is, with the Liverpool gig there's no place to hide, so he'll be found out soon enough if the recent wins were just fortunate (Blackburn missing their centre halves etc.), but in the meantime he's getting a bit of my grudging support!

Ed, that's all very fair and under most circumstances I would agree with you. It just irks me that 'respect' is the one thing lacking from Hodgson himself - respect for a manager whose brilliance made the club seriously over-acheive for five years; respect for the history, traditions and dignity of the club; respect for the intelligence and aspirations of the fans.  The greatest respect he has shown so far is in his timidity in dealing with Ferguson. He is the manager of one of the world's great sporting institutions and he needs to aspire to this rather than expect us to forget our heritage and meet him half-way to Fulham.  The man, who never tires of asking for respect for his brilliant career which has yielded precisely no major trophies in 35 years, has had us in the relegation zone, has had the team playing probably the worst football seen at Anfield since Souness' league cup teams, and in press conference after press conference embarrasses himself and his club.  How did he even merit being a managerial target in the first place? It is unfortunate but I don't think Henry has  sufficiently knowledgeable advisors to help him see what every Koppite could tell him flat: Hodgson is is symptom of G&H's corrupt regime and he, and his backers in the squad, need to be somewhere else already!

Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #457 on: November 02, 2010, 11:42:39 AM »
sorry, I am a bit behind here.  So much work on yesterday.  And it is 6.31am here, and am about to start working in 20 mins.

Good to see clem and others posting.

the thing with Roy is, that at least we were appointing someone who was a gentleman, who didn't wash one;s laundry in public.  He would get us back to the old Liverpool way, right?

wrong.........as well as being tactically out of his depth, Roy has been anything but a gentleman in the media.  He has blamed everything and everyone since his appointment.   

We have the worst of both worlds.  A new boss that is neither up to it tactically, nor up to it in the media.

OK, re ASI - and the little englander thing.  I am in total agreement re the EU monster and the need to be out of it.  The little englander thing is nothing to do with that.   It's about tiny minds, like big sam's, that think english bosses (and players) should be appointed to premiership jobs.   WTF  It's 2010.  Clubs will appoint the best man for the job.  And that's the way it should be. 

I see it all the time in the media. I am reluctant to give specific examples, in public, lest someone ends up getting sued!   There is one specific columnist that I have grown to detest.

anyways, if I get a chance across the day, I will look in.

all my best....tis 6.42am.....bfn.



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Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #458 on: November 02, 2010, 02:22:40 PM »
Criticism is criticism and it's fine if warranted but there's a readiness to criticise foreign managers, especially those who don't manage London clubs, that simply isn't there for their British counterparts. We all criticised Benitez, his tactics, selections, substitutions, over caution and transfers and it was warranted and had a basis for it.
ASI, the difference is none of us, and that definately includes you, do it with the apparent relish the hacks do. Meanwhile, their praise is more begrudging.

Tabloids or broadsheets? I don't tend to see much of a difference if you take into account there is a style difference, obviously, it's the underlying message and the basis and regularity that still comes through.

It's even worse with all things England.

totally agree, Tes.

now on the positive side, despite murdoch hijacking our media some 20 plus years ago, we still have the best media in the world.  Ond doesn't fully appreciate that until one travels.

I was always a massive newspaper reader.  I always bought at least 2 each day - express and mail, for the football coverage.  Often bought more.  And at Sundays, I have been known to buy 4 or 5 papers (say, the sunday times, mail on sunday, sunday express, independent....even the guardian occasionally.  Been doing that all my adult life. 

Being abroad in recent years, I am a massive online newspaper reader of these papers above.

Google News has always been my source of searching for the latest news, be it liverpool FC frelated or otherwise. 

But yes, there is a hardcore of writers/columnists......and football people, who are little englanders.

They would not recognise that in themselves, but it is pretty evident.

At the local level, you see many liverpool fans who want to return the club to being scouse.  Since when were Liverpool made up of mainly scouse players and personnel.  When we bossed the football world, we had lads  from all over - england, scotland, wales, rep of ireland, denmark, israel, etc.

Shankly was obviously Scottish, Bob Paisley from the north east (sunderland), Dalglish and Souness were Scottish, etc etc.

And yet we have this hardcore who have their history all mixed up.

It is really difficult to listen to know-it-all's who know-nothing. 

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline barticus

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #459 on: November 02, 2010, 02:24:46 PM »
From all accounts Roy was brought in to steady the ship by the previous administration....

That admininstration has gone and now is the time to go beyond 'steadying the ship'...

Roy has taken us into the relegation zone...for months...

has slagged off the man who made us number one in europe...

and rafa's right that roy couldn't see a priest on a mountain of sugar....

the reason why we're in this predicament is because of Roy...who cares if we beat blackburn and bolton? that's par for the course...

the next two games will prove a time for a change...

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #460 on: November 02, 2010, 03:24:41 PM »
The echo carried out a poll today to see whose side Liverpool fans were on in the spat between Roy and Rafa.

1461 voted.

1286 (88%) agreed with Rafa's comments on Roy.

175 didnt agree with Rafa. Fairly resounding victory for Rafa.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/11/02/liverpool-fc-fans-give-their-reaction-to-rafael-benitez-s-comments-poll-results-100252-27585770/


Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #461 on: November 02, 2010, 05:02:42 PM »
I thought I was the only one who thought like that. Welcome the Deutsche Bahn.
Think of it as the least worse option. I'd much rather us be independent. All this partnership with aliens is a dangerous route to a pan-European force ruled by the EU.

Quote
I thought one of the attractions of Roy was that he wasn't political, was a gentleman, kept his council on all things and only talked about the game in terms of the last 90 minutes or the next 90 minutes.
Everything seems to distract him from the job at hand, a job he's trying to overly justify as being a huge rebuilding job. We finished seventh, not seventeenth. Yes we lost Masch but we're not ten places weaker for that. If the players are utilised to their strengths, we should, and even more so considering the unconvincing starts overall that Spurs and Man City have made, be in the thick of the challenge for a CL spot.
I'm not sure of his agenda. Maybe it comes from insecurity. My opinion of him has changed quite a bit and not for the better sadly.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #462 on: November 02, 2010, 05:04:59 PM »
OK, re ASI - and the little englander thing.  I am in total agreement re the EU monster and the need to be out of it.  The little englander thing is nothing to do with that.   It's about tiny minds, like big sam's, that think english bosses (and players) should be appointed to premiership jobs.   WTF  It's 2010.  Clubs will appoint the best man for the job.  And that's the way it should be.

Thanks for the clarification dude. Worthy of a suitable icon... :-*
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ed

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #463 on: November 02, 2010, 07:14:37 PM »
Ok guys, obviously I know the argument about Roy...I was shouting itself very recently....I'm just giving the man his dues and we'll see what happens home to Napoli and Chelsea.....

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #464 on: November 03, 2010, 11:59:08 AM »
I'm convinced Roy still thinks hes managing Fulham. Otherwise I'm not sure how he thinks on paper Napoli, Steaua and Utrecht are even with Liverpool on paper. Were we playing Juve, Valencia and Ajax he may have had a point.

Is Henry around for this game on Thursday, will he be at Anfield? Aside from the traveling I'm not sure why Roy would play weakened teams in the first three games of the group and then decide to play a strong team 3 days before the Chelsea game. My only thinking would be that Henry is still in England and Roy needs his team to perform.

http://www.teamtalk.com/liverpool/6483924/Hodgson-vows-to-field-strong-line-up

Liverpool boss Roy Hodgson has pledged to field a strong team in Thursday night's Europa League clash at home to Napoli.

The 63-year-old believes four points from their remaining three games - two of which are at home - will be enough for his Group K leaders.

And even with a huge match against Chelsea looming on Sunday, Hodgson, in contrast to their away European fixtures, is prepared to field an experienced side.

"I think if we can get four more points, we'll be pretty much secure for a place in the next round as I can see the other games being tight," he said.

"We got one of the tougher groups with Napoli, Steaua and Utrecht and on paper it looked even, but we've done what we've needed to do.

"We'll have a strong team out on Thursday, we won't rest too many.

"When you're playing these European games, it's the travelling that's one of the worst aspects.

"You're away for three days and you're very concerned about the way the players will react, not just to the game but also the travelling.

"At home, it's a slightly lesser problem but of course we need to look at the minutes people are playing and try to keep some sort of balance there.

"Of course there are international games coming up as well and some players might get a week without a game and others won't - so we have to take that into consideration."

Hodgson will be without Joe Cole (hamstring), Dirk Kuyt (ankle) and Daniel Agger (calf) while Sotirios Kyrgiakos was withdrawn from training on Tuesday as a precaution after complaining of a groin problem.

Ryan Babel is training with the squad after a rib injury and Glen Johnson could end his four-match absence with a thigh problem.