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Author Topic: The Roy Hodgson Thread  (Read 131829 times)

Offline Tes

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #525 on: November 13, 2010, 11:36:28 AM »
You have to wonder what goes through Roys head.

Today he came out defending Poulsen and backing him to come good. Poulsen is 30ish and Roys decision to sign the player was based on a time when a much younger Poulsen played for Roy at Copenhagen in 2000/01.  Poulsen may be new to the club but his record at clubs over the last few years combined with his start at the club suggests to me he will never make at Liverpool.

What I dont understand about Roy is how can he praise Poulsen in one breath and slate Johnson in another. Johnson when hes played this season has been poor defensively, Poulsen has arguably been worse. But in fairness Johnson has had an injury hit season. So why has Roy decided to castigate a 26 year old Johnson who has years left in his career and is potentially worth much more to the club yet defend an older washed up player whom we know is not good enough. For most of the season we have been calling for Johnsons inclusion on the wing but Roy refuses. Theres no doubt he can get forward, hes got a good shot and if anything is to be learned from the Bale situation at spurs its that maybe Johnson could be better suited to the wing with less defensive responsibility.

For Roy to criticise someone whose been fit to play once in the last seven league games and considering Roys only been at the club two minutes is baffling. Roy has been quick to point out that he feels criticism directed at himself is unfair because he has not yet been given a chance to show what he can do. Well then maybe Roy should take his own advice and afford Johnson the same courtesy by letting him get back fit and get a decent run in the side.

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/chester-sport/liverpool-fc-news/2010/11/12/lfc-boss-hodgson-insists-christian-poulsen-will-come-good-59067-27646778/


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/13/glen-johnson-liverpool-roy-hodgson

Top post, Juan. You ought to be a journalist. A rose of sunflower proportions amongst the thorns.

As Roy's favoured line up tends to be 4-4-2, Johnson as a wide midfielder makes perfect sense. In that respect he reminds me a lot of Vagaard Hegem. In addition it means that Raul Meireles can play in his correct position in central midfield.

Juan, it smacks of being on the self defensive again. Trying to justify his mistaken decision to buy Poulsen, whilst having a pot shot at one of the poor quality players the previous manager left him with.
Granted, Johnson hasn't been great, when he's played but as you say he's had another injury hit season and how many games has he been playing in where he's either carrying an injury or coming back from injury.
Rather than castigate the player to the vutures in the media, this sort of thing needs to be kept between the player and the manager. It's hardly a way to get a player to respond by hanging him out to dry in the papers.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #526 on: November 13, 2010, 12:13:16 PM »
Didn't Rafa publicly criticise Gerrard a few years ago? That seemed to have a positive effect on the player. I'm sure someone of Hodgson's experience thought long and hard before deciding to do it. Similarly, Adam Johnson has been criticised by Mancini.

Sometimes a public kick up the backside can work. It's not the first time it's happened and it won't be the last.
Cheers,
Ray



Clem

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #527 on: November 13, 2010, 12:19:50 PM »
Didn't Rafa publicly criticise Gerrard a few years ago? That seemed to have a positive effect on the player. I'm sure someone of Hodgson's experience thought long and hard before deciding to do it. Similarly, Adam Johnson has been criticised by Mancini.

Sometimes a public kick up the backside can work. It's not the first time it's happened and it won't be the last.

That's a good point. Thing is you never know how a player will react - didn't go down well with Gerard at Villa this week. Also, his timing is bad because there is already speculation about Glen, who is out injured and cannot show a reaction right away except in the press (thereby making him sit and stew on this) and he does seem unhappy.  He thought he was signing for Rafa and a team challenging in the CL and Prem. Not Fulham extra. Rafa's challenge to 'senior pros' blew up in his face last season when he found out how fickle and self-important some of these pampered egos can be. Risky games should only be played by smart people I think. And I've got a coffee-table smarter than Roy. ;)

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #528 on: November 13, 2010, 12:29:41 PM »
Clem,

Your point about Johnson not being able to prove a point by being injured is valid. But it will also give him time to consider if he has performed as well as he could. He doesn't need telling he's underperformed. He'll know it if he's intelligent which I think he is. I've long been a fan of Kelly at RB with Johnson moved forward to RW.

But it's vital that managers show who's the boss in this age of pampered ego-obsessed millionaires. They will be respected by intelligent players. Once players boss the dressing room it leads to disaster.
Cheers,
Ray



Clem

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #529 on: November 13, 2010, 12:36:59 PM »
I agree with you ASI.  You are right about the Kelly/Johnson thing but Roy doesn't see it does  he?  Everybody is mentioning it except the manager.  He has never, to my knowledge, even spoke about it as an option available to him. I think it is dumb to rub your players up the wrong way (or risk doing so) if you're not in a strong position yourself. If Roy criticises Glen, then why shouldn't Glen think to himself that he is not getting due respect from a clueless manager promoted beyond his abilities? Can we afford risking losing England's right-back at the moment? Look at the names lining up for him - City; United; Inter; Juve. He isn't suddenly a mug and I don't really see how public criticism is going to encourage him to ignore the advances of clubs in better positions than we are right now.

Offline Juan

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #530 on: November 13, 2010, 01:18:52 PM »
I think its fair to tell a player that he needs to up his game. When you do it publicly you risk humiliating the player and as Tes points out Roy hasnt afforded Glen the opportunity to defend himself on the pitch because hes injured.

Also the big no no for me here is publicly criticising one player when at the same time publicly getting behind another whose form is probably even more questionable and hes not injured, hes not playing because of his form is woeful .

For instance lets say both Torres and Gerrard were under performing. Neither players contribution was sufficient to the team. Do you think Gerrard would be happy if he was publicly condemned while at the same time the manager defended / praised Torres.

Firstly why does Roy feels he owes Poulsen to publicly back him and secondly what has Glen done in the short time Roys been here to deserve been called out while injured? Surely how he played under Rafa didnt matter. Dont get me wrong I thinks Johnsons performances have been woeful but I just dont see the sense in the very differing treatment Roy is affording both players.

You could argue that Poulsen is new to the club and country whereas Johnson is not but you could equally argue that Johnson is new to Roy and his tactics where Poulsen is not.

I just think that Roys possibly gone and sealed Johnsons exit when he hasnt even tested the idea of him playing further up the field. Chances are we will have to sell him at half what we bought him for and the first thing someone like Harry Redknapp would probably do is put him straight into midfield.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #531 on: November 13, 2010, 02:33:03 PM »
I agree with you ASI.  You are right about the Kelly/Johnson thing but Roy doesn't see it does  he?  Everybody is mentioning it except the manager.  He has never, to my knowledge, even spoke about it as an option available to him.
I haven't heard him mention it but also, no interviewer has either. Aren't they meant to ask these questions?

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I think it is dumb to rub your players up the wrong way (or risk doing so) if you're not in a strong position yourself. If Roy criticises Glen, then why shouldn't Glen think to himself that he is not getting due respect from a clueless manager promoted beyond his abilities?
Hodgson isn't in a weak position. The owners are in no position to change him at the moment. And he's just beaten Chelsea so why shouldn't he consider his position to be stronger? And none of us know what has been said privately. He has probably been castigated privately. 'Clueless'? It's what the players think that's important, not ours.

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Can we afford risking losing England's right-back at the moment? Look at the names lining up for him - City; United; Inter; Juve. He isn't suddenly a mug and I don't really see how public criticism is going to encourage him to ignore the advances of clubs in better positions than we are right now.
His performances this season have hardly helped his case. And until he publicly expesses a desire to leave there's no point discussing who might be interested.
Cheers,
Ray



Clem

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #532 on: November 13, 2010, 02:51:11 PM »
I haven't heard him mention it but also, no interviewer has either. Aren't they meant to ask these questions?
Hodgson isn't in a weak position. The owners are in no position to change him at the moment. And he's just beaten Chelsea so why shouldn't he consider his position to be stronger? And none of us know what has been said privately. He has probably been castigated privately. 'Clueless'? It's what the players think that's important, not ours.
His performances this season have hardly helped his case. And until he publicly expesses a desire to leave there's no point discussing who might be interested.

That's the point I am making I think.  Once you put your dirty washing out there then you have to take the consequences and these teams are then entitled to speculate, as is the press. Its a needless invitation by Roy and, as Juan said about the discrepancy with his treatment of Poulsen, seems an unnecessarily divisive act. If he has been castigated privately, why do so again publicly? That wouldn't make sense and would aggravate the player. To be fair ASI, Hodgson's win over Chelsea has put him in a stronger position, but this is because beforehand it was barely tenable. It was a good win and I was happy to see it - but even then we sat far too deep on a lead and we clung on.The man just isn't cut out to be a Liverpool manager.  We paying customers surely have a right to speak our minds? That is why we are on this forum isn't it? We weren't discussing who might be interested, but the names the media is now associating with our right-back because of our manager. Brilliant.  Wasn't disastrous man-management supposed to be Rafa's era? The only Liverpool player to come out in vocal support of the club during the World Cup was Dan Agger - where is that voice when we need it, Roy?

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #533 on: November 13, 2010, 03:11:09 PM »
That's the point I am making I think.  Once you put your dirty washing out there then you have to take the consequences and these teams are then entitled to speculate, as is the press. Its a needless invitation by Roy and, as Juan said about the discrepancy with his treatment of Poulsen, seems an unnecessarily divisive act. If he has been castigated privately, why do so again publicly? That wouldn't make sense and would aggravate the player.
I don't equate publicly criticising a player to 'putting your dirty washing out there'. And the press will speculate about anything if they so choose. Look at the Reina thing for how badly they get it wrong. When Gerrard was criticised was it sending out a message that he's available? No, of course not. Unless there are further developments I don't expect to see Johnson leave in Jan.

The comparison with Poulson is not the same. One is a proven international whose performance has dropped to unacceptable levels.  The other is a foreigner unfamiliar with our league and of less ability. To criticise him publicly would be to finish his career at LFC. That would be stupid after so few games.
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To be fair ASI, Hodgson's win over Chelsea has put him in a stronger position, but this is because beforehand it was barely tenable. It was a good win and I was happy to see it - but even then we sat far too deep on a lead and we clung on.The man just isn't cut out to be a Liverpool manager.
The players sat deep naturally, not because of any managerial decision. I've just watched Villa do the same after leading 2-0 and almost pay the price. It's not just us who do it and we did it under other managers. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a LFC quality manager but he isn't going to be changed because of what we say so let's just live with it. The players performances are more important.

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We paying customers surely have a right to speak our minds? That is why we are on this forum isn't it?
Of course. But I've seen very little credit given to him for a 4-game unbeaten run and that doesn't seem fair.

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We weren't discussing who might be interested, but the names the media is now associating with our right-back because of our manager. Brilliant.  Wasn't disastrous man-management supposed to be Rafa's era? The only Liverpool player to come out in vocal support of the club during the World Cup was Dan Agger - where is that voice when we need it, Roy?
I have no respect for most of the media so I don't pay any attention to what they say. Hodgson is doing a difficult job and he's not the political animal Rafa is. I'll keep an open mind until he makes stupid substitutions and so far he hasn't.
Most players at the WC had more important things on their mind so I don't think that means anything.
Cheers,
Ray



Clem

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #534 on: November 13, 2010, 04:28:21 PM »
Hi ASI,

Okay, we have different opinions about dirty washing - my point being, why criticise a player publicly at all?  Roy did it at the same time as he praised another player. My point is that such action engenders a spirit of divisiveness in the squad - that can never be a good thing.  The Liverpool Way, as we all know, includes keeping dignified before the public. Any castigations should have been done behind closed doors - period.

We sat back again against Wigan, too.  It has happened at many games I've seen this season - too often to be anything other than a nasty combination of a lack of confidence in the players, and a defensive-minded approach from their coach.  Fulham were the same last season - hence the amount of players who have said their style has changed under Hughes, with the team pressing much higher up the pitch. Look at Roy's career managerial record  when it comes to away wins, there is a pattern revealing (in my opinion only) a negative, defensive mindset. 

lets not get carried away with this miraculous rebirth of our team.  As a lifelong fan it gives me a great thrill to see us avoiding defeat, but we really should be picking up those pints not doing cartwheels in gratitude.  Since when has four games unbeaten been a 'run' at Liverpool football club? since now, this season, since Roy.

I have liked a lot of his substitutions this season - they have made sense to me more often than some of Rafa's did last term.  They are sometimes unnecessarily negative, but I will let that ride.

I suspect one of the reasons you are rightly suspicious of the media is their palpable bias against the team you love (and its supporters).  Roy should, as our manager, therefore also be aware that actions such as publicly criticising players hands the media a stick to beat us with?

For me at least, nothing is more important than LFC - least of all the World Cup.  In the wilderness summer we have just, and only just, survived, an optimistic word of defiance and unity was very welcome. Shame on the players who looked on and said nothing.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #535 on: November 13, 2010, 06:18:42 PM »
Hi ASI,

Okay, we have different opinions about dirty washing - my point being, why criticise a player publicly at all?  Roy did it at the same time as he praised another player. My point is that such action engenders a spirit of divisiveness in the squad - that can never be a good thing.  The Liverpool Way, as we all know, includes keeping dignified before the public. Any castigations should have been done behind closed doors - period.

Hi Clem,
If I'm honest Clem I really don't know why they do it. All I'm saying is that to criticise Roy when Rafa also did it seems unfair. None of us knows what goes on behind closed doors so there are probably reasons we'll never know. Don't you think the 'Liverpool way' died some time ago? Probably when David Moores sold the club.

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We sat back again against Wigan, too.  It has happened at many games I've seen this season - too often to be anything other than a nasty combination of a lack of confidence in the players, and a defensive-minded approach from their coach.  Fulham were the same last season - hence the amount of players who have said their style has changed under Hughes, with the team pressing much higher up the pitch. Look at Roy's career managerial record  when it comes to away wins, there is a pattern revealing (in my opinion only) a negative, defensive mindset.
Yes, it happens and I don't like it. But what can you do? If it makes you feel better getting it off your chest then fine but I'd rather focus on the positives. It might be head-in-sand but otherwise you can get dragged down emotionally and after the last few months I've had enough of that to last a lifetime.

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lets not get carried away with this miraculous rebirth of our team.  As a lifelong fan it gives me a great thrill to see us avoiding defeat, but we really should be picking up those pints not doing cartwheels in gratitude.  Since when has four games unbeaten been a 'run' at Liverpool football club? since now, this season, since Roy.
I agree and I've supported them since the 60s although I don't attend games sadly. But I pay Sky so perhaps I do.  :)

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I have liked a lot of his substitutions this season - they have made sense to me more often than some of Rafa's did last term.  They are sometimes unnecessarily negative, but I will let that ride.
That's my point. I can remember screaming at some of Rafa's decisions but there didn't seem to be the same criticism levelled at him as there is now at Roy. At least now we have owners who will make decisions in the best interests of the club but they need time.

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I suspect one of the reasons you are rightly suspicious of the media is their palpable bias against the team you love (and its supporters).  Roy should, as our manager, therefore also be aware that actions such as publicly criticising players hands the media a stick to beat us with?
Some of the media - not all of it. Rory Smith in the Telegraph speaks sense as does Henry Winter and I thought Maddock was okay in the Mirror until his Reina story the other day. I'm not blind to the team's performances. I will criticise them when I feel it's due. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree over public criticisms.

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For me at least, nothing is more important than LFC - least of all the World Cup.  In the wilderness summer we have just, and only just, survived, an optimistic word of defiance and unity was very welcome. Shame on the players who looked on and said nothing.
Club is important but so is my country's team. And given the pressure the players are under during the WC I don't blame them for not commenting on club affairs.

Anyway, I see we're still 0-0 at Stoke despite not playing very well in the first 30 mins. Perhaps things will go better in the second half.
Cheers,
Ray



Clem

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #536 on: November 13, 2010, 06:35:35 PM »
ASI - Yeah, that getting dragged down emotionally thing has me drained out too.  You are more optimistic than I am at the moment, but it might be that i am biased because I cannot really see any  plan or development in how Roy has the team playing. I'm a big rafa fan too. I really hope he turns it round though - any scruffy scrappy result is okay (look at how we did it in the first 10-15 games of season before last- and it was brilliant!).

I don't think managers should slate players in the press - Paisley etc never did it. To be fair to them Fergie and Wenger don't either. Its the little things like this and his press conferences in general, together with lack of cohesion and craft in his tactics and selections, that have so many reds fans doubting Roy.  Never heard anything like it before - the Kop basically chanting 'You don't know what you're doing' when singing for Kenny a few weeks ago.  if we draw again today thats two points from Wigan and Stoke, and grateful for them. It just isn't good enough. Respect for support from the sixties by the way!

Offline the dude abides

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #537 on: November 13, 2010, 06:48:53 PM »
when we employed Roy, I had no great expectations re his managerial abilities.

BUT, I did think he would steady the ship and would be more versed in the Liverpool way (than say Rafa was). 

The soundbites from him, on short match of the day interviews after Fulham games, sounded really good.  Roy sounded concise, intelligent and very fairminded. 

But since he has been at Anfield, it is easier to study him in more detail.  And wow, Roy doesn't shut his trap.  Endless words, that cover all the angles on a topic (ala O'Leary or Houllier) and are thus meaningless.

I had thought he would keep his counsel, ala the Liverpool way.  He would not wash our laundry in public.  But boy how wrong was I. 

This latest rant (we seem to get a rant every other day or two) about Johnston, may be totally accurate.....but fig-leaf, what does it do for the relationship with the lad, and also what impact does it not have on his resale value.

Imagine what the media would have said about Rafa, if he had made all these daily rants.  They would be having a field day.

It's time for changes at Anfield  (Stoke have just scored).



« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 06:51:15 PM by the dude abides »
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Offline Gurdeep

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #538 on: November 13, 2010, 08:22:49 PM »
Oh I'm so excited to hear his post match interview. 

Whatcha y'all reckon his excuses will be.  M'mm, well it can't be the manager cos he's got over 30 years experience in management and you don't last that long in football without being good hey!  Err what else could it be.  Ah all the players bar his signings are shine-a-light.  Yes, that one will do nicely.  I can keep playing that record again and again and no one will notice.  Oh sugar, didn't I mention something about judging me after 10 games.  Oh bollox, let's hope everyone forgets that!

Woy Out!

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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
« Reply #539 on: November 13, 2010, 08:31:38 PM »
ASI - Yeah, that getting dragged down emotionally thing has me drained out too.  You are more optimistic than I am at the moment, but it might be that i am biased because I cannot really see any  plan or development in how Roy has the team playing. I'm a big rafa fan too. I really hope he turns it round though - any scruffy scrappy result is okay (look at how we did it in the first 10-15 games of season before last- and it was brilliant!).
Well Clem, I'm not optimistic after tonight's result. By all accounts it was a dreadful performance. I really don't know how you can go from beatign Chelsea 6 days go to that rubbish. I don't think watching MoTD will help either. But it was telling that the away fans were chanting "Dalglish" after the second goal went in. Don't know if the players were boo'd off after the game.

What is frustrating is that Manure are not playing well, City are dire, Spurs are inconsistent and only Chelsea look like winning the league and we beat them!!! If the board were to replace Roy with Kenny it could help us keep in touch with 4th which isn't that far away. But leaving Roy there for a few more weeks could kill any chance of CL football next season and that brings its own dangers re Torres and co.

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Respect for support from the sixties by the way!
Cheers. I stood in the Kop late 70s and early 80s. Great times but we still lost to Manure!
Cheers,
Ray