The Roy Hodgson Thread

[Ageing Stick Insect]

Liverpool is a massive step up (from Fulham).  Winning away is a key requirement, every other away game or so (if one is to push for league titles).

Roy has never had that ability, across his career.

It's unfair of us to start expecting a bloke almost about to draw his pension, to change his spots now.

Dude / Juan,

Do you blame Roy for us losing at Spurs or do you blame the abysmal finishing of Torres and Maxi? I blame the players who should have had the game in the bag by the 50th minute. I don't see how you could blame Roy for the poor finishing of the players. Even if he had substituted Torres with Babel (and how would that have gone down here) where is the guarantee we would have won the game?

I was as critical of him as you earlier this season but I think he's starting to turn things around but seems to be getting little credit for it. Monday's game against Villa was a great result but seems to have attracted very little praise.

And I have to say I'm disappointed in Tes's avatar which appears to mock the Liverpool manager. I thought we would be above such things. It's something I might expect of a bluenose or manc. If it's not Roy then I take it all back.

[the dude abides]

Dude / Juan,

Do you blame Roy for us losing at Spurs or do you blame the abysmal finishing of Torres and Maxi? I blame the players who should have had the game in the bag by the 50th minute. I don't see how you could blame Roy for the poor finishing of the players. Even if he had substituted Torres with Babel (and how would that have gone down here) where is the guarantee we would have won the game?

I was as critical of him as you earlier this season but I think he's starting to turn things around but seems to be getting little credit for it. Monday's game against Villa was a great result but seems to have attracted very little praise.

but the problem isn't home games, ASI.  It's away games.

The Spurs result could, in any other context, be put down to bad luck.  But away from home, Roy has never seemed to have any luck, across his entire career.  Given the data, it's pretty easy to conclude that he just does not cut the mustard on his travels.  And if you can only win one or two away games each season, you will never challenge for any titles.  Not up to what Liverpool standard.

As for Torres.......way overrated in my opinion.   His ego and attitude needs much work upon.

[Juan]

Dude / Juan,

Do you blame Roy for us losing at Spurs or do you blame the abysmal finishing of Torres and Maxi? I blame the players who should have had the game in the bag by the 50th minute. I don't see how you could blame Roy for the poor finishing of the players. Even if he had substituted Torres with Babel (and how would that have gone down here) where is the guarantee we would have won the game?

I was as critical of him as you earlier this season but I think he's starting to turn things around but seems to be getting little credit for it. Monday's game against Villa was a great result but seems to have attracted very little praise.

And I have to say I'm disappointed in Tes's avatar which appears to mock the Liverpool manager. I thought we would be above such things. It's something I might expect of a bluenose or manc. If it's not Roy then I take it all back.

In fairness ASI I have been very critical of Roy for what seems like two seasons now even though its on a matter of months but I do accept and have said that I think he has turned the home form around.

With regards the game away to Spurs I suggested before hand the players would up their games because it was a bigger team we were playing and to be honest for me that judgment still could be proved true. But Spurs aside ASI Stoke, Wigan, everton etc etc etc all the way back to Man City our away form has been nothing short of abysmal. Not necessarily the results but the performances too. We are slowly getting to see that Roy is capable of putting a team together with the ability of beating anyone at home. Thats worthless unless he can coach the players to put in those similar types of performances on the road.

Roy is undoubtedly answering critics again but if we were to go and lose again tomorrow or play horrendously without taking home some points then the questions about Roys ability as manager will continue to crop up. We would have won the title again long before now under previous managers if the league was decided on our home performances alone. Roy needs to start showing that he is capable of transferring some of those positive home results in to consistent away day victories. If he can start to do that even then his sternest critics wont have much to challenge him on. The problem is there is nothing in Roys career up to now to show hes capable of making that happen.

[Tes]

And I have to say I'm disappointed in Tes's avatar which appears to mock the Liverpool manager. I thought we would be above such things. It's something I might expect of a bluenose or manc. If it's not Roy then I take it all back.

I've changed my avatar. I wasn't mocking him though I apologise if it caused offence. I have no more faith in him as yet (time willhopefully prove me wrong) as I did have when we were first linked. I simply don't see anything in his 35 year career that gives an indication that he is the man to take us forward or even achieve a top four finish on no more a regulat basis than Everton. His style of football will not bring out the best in our more technical players than Rafa's did. Surely we're looking to improve on the last manager.

ASI, by the end of January we should be able to make a more accurate judgement as to whether two wins against understrength, low on confidence, poor sides and a decent first half performance against a Spurs team who'd play huge games against Arsenal and Inter, us being the third game in 8 days, is the start of progress or a false dawn that gets put in perspective.
Newcastle, Blackpool, Blackburn and Wolves await us in our travels and these teams should all be beatable and hopefully beaten if we are to regard what is happening as any sort of progress.

Those of us who've had and still retain little or no faith in the current manager would like nothing more than to be made to look like know-nothing idiots. We'd be ecstatic idiots as it would mean we've had a successful season either by winning a trophy for the first time in 5 years or by qualifying for the Champions League. 

[Ageing Stick Insect]

but the problem isn't home games, ASI.  It's away games.

To be fair Dude it was both earlier in the season but our home performance has come on leaps and bounds. The fact that you acknowledge home form isn't a problem shows how much we've improved since the start of the season.

The Spurs result could, in any other context, be put down to bad luck.  But away from home, Roy has never seemed to have any luck, across his entire career.  Given the data, it's pretty easy to conclude that he just does not cut the mustard on his travels.  And if you can only win one or two away games each season, you will never challenge for any titles.  Not up to what Liverpool standard.

Maybe it's down to the quality of players at his disposal. Luck tends to even itself out over a season whether you're home or away and it's the players who benefit from luck (good and bad) rather than managers. If a shot is deflected and becomes a goal is that the manager's luck or the player's? The latter I would say. If the player who scored that goal was brought on as a sub then you could argue it's the manager's luck but it's a debatable point.

It's clear to me that he's brought a very different style of football to the club that took the players some time to adapt to. I'm sure you can see that as much as me. The mistake by Koncheski that led to Lennon's goal was bad but he'll learn from it and this will probably be his only season at Anfield. A better left back is needed.

As for Torres.......way overrated in my opinion.   His ego and attitude needs much work upon.

His attitude is odd. That I will agree. But not his skill as was proven against Chelsea.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

In fairness ASI I have been very critical of Roy for what seems like two seasons now even though its on a matter of months but I do accept and have said that I think he has turned the home form around.

Agreed. The style of play now is light-years away from that of a couple of months ago. I think the away form will improve because the players now like the style their playing.

With regards the game away to Spurs I suggested before hand the players would up their games because it was a bigger team we were playing and to be honest for me that judgment still could be proved true. But Spurs aside ASI Stoke, Wigan, everton etc etc etc all the way back to Man City our away form has been nothing short of abysmal. Not necessarily the results but the performances too. We are slowly getting to see that Roy is capable of putting a team together with the ability of beating anyone at home. Thats worthless unless he can coach the players to put in those similar types of performances on the road.

But as I said to dude, our general form earlier in the season was woeful. We were just unlucky that we played a lot of decent sides so early when he was trying to change the style of football. The fact that he played 2 up front against Spurs showed his intent to win the game. Do you think Rafa would have done that? No.

Roy is undoubtedly answering critics again but if we were to go and lose again tomorrow or play horrendously without taking home some points then the questions about Roys ability as manager will continue to crop up. We would have won the title again long before now under previous managers if the league was decided on our home performances alone. Roy needs to start showing that he is capable of transferring some of those positive home results in to consistent away day victories. If he can start to do that even then his sternest critics wont have much to challenge him on. The problem is there is nothing in Roys career up to now to show hes capable of making that happen.

I'm certain we'll come away with 1 point and more likely, three. I just don't see the players putting in an abject performance when confidence is high. We were without our two best players plus Jamie against Villa and didn't miss them at all. And those players don't suddenly become bad overnight. Providing the formation is one they're happy with they will go out to win all games. And I just don't see Roy reverting to the style of football we played earlier in the season. Forget what's happened in previous seasons. It counts for nothing. It's what's happening now that matters.

[Ageing Stick Insect]

I've changed my avatar. I wasn't mocking him though I apologise if it caused offence.

Thanks Tes.

I have no more faith in him as yet (time willhopefully prove me wrong) as I did have when we were first linked. I simply don't see anything in his 35 year career that gives an indication that he is the man to take us forward or even achieve a top four finish on no more a regulat basis than Everton. His style of football will not bring out the best in our more technical players than Rafa's did. Surely we're looking to improve on the last manager.

I'm not saying he's the bees knees either but clearly things have improved and we're playing some decent football. Yes, the sides we beat were not brilliant but that doesn't automatically mean you will play well. But we did. Look at the City game last season. Both sides were abysmal. And that was under a top manager.

Maybe Roy is a later developer! Sometimes you just get a combo of maanger and players that after some gelling time just clicks. Now I'm not saying we're going to win the league but clearly a lot of players have picked up their game this season. Who would have guessed Babel would have played that well on Monday? None of us I bet!

ASI, by the end of January we should be able to make a more accurate judgement as to whether two wins against understrength, low on confidence, poor sides and a decent first half performance against a Spurs team who'd play huge games against a*senal and Inter, us being the third game in 8 days, is the start of progress or a false dawn that gets put in perspective.
Newcastle, Blackpool, Blackburn and Wolves await us in our travels and these teams should all be beatable and hopefully beaten if we are to regard what is happening as any sort of progress.

Those of us who've had and still retain little or no faith in the current manager would like nothing more than to be made to look like know-nothing idiots. We'd be ecstatic idiots as it would mean we've had a successful season either by winning a trophy for the first time in 5 years or by qualifying for the Champions League. 

I know we'd all love to be proved wrong and for us to achieve a top 4 place when it was never an option at the start of the season. But strange things happen in football. None stranger than what's going on at Chelsea. Who would have guessed that? Footie isn't an exact science and more strange things will happen before the season's end.

But let me end in giving some credit to a man who was considered out of his depth a couple of months ago and who now appears to have started to turn things around. And if we continue to play well then give credit where credit is due.

[Juan]

Who would have guessed Babel would have played that well on Monday? None of us I bet!

Just a quick reply ASI to one small point about Babel.

I'm genuinely not surprised Babel played well Monday. I have been very critical of Benitez and now Hodgson for their treatment of the player.

Granted they see him on a day to day basis but it was always clear by his performances that he was not a winger but both Rafa and Roy continued to play him there if he did get any minutes on the pitch.

Roy promised him a run up front before Christmas but had it not been for the birth of Nandos child Babel would most likely have been flogged in January without that chance.

He played in Europe and scored, I thought played well but was then hauled off at half time.

I think alot of people on here have recognised Babels talent, have been frustrated by his performances on the wing but also understood its not his position.

If Roy decided to keep him in the team today because of his performance Monday at the expense of Nando I would not have a problem and I think it would send a great message through the team that if your playing well you will get a shot. It might show the more senior players like Torres and Gerrard that they have to work hard to stay in the team. It will prevent complacency setting in while giving the fringe players a boost.

So much for making a quick point! I'm off to buy a Christmas tree...........

[barticus]

Just a quick reply ASI to one small point about Babel.

I'm genuinely not surprised Babel played well Monday. I have been very critical of Benitez and now Hodgson for their treatment of the player.

Granted they see him on a day to day basis but it was always clear by his performances that he was not a winger but both Rafa and Roy continued to play him there if he did get any minutes on the pitch.

Roy promised him a run up front before Christmas but had it not been for the birth of Nandos child Babel would most likely have been flogged in January without that chance.

He played in Europe and scored, I thought played well but was then hauled off at half time.

I think alot of people on here have recognised Babels talent, have been frustrated by his performances on the wing but also understood its not his position.

If Roy decided to keep him in the team today because of his performance Monday at the expense of Nando I would not have a problem and I think it would send a great message through the team that if your playing well you will get a shot. It might show the more senior players like Torres and Gerrard that they have to work hard to stay in the team. It will prevent complacency setting in while giving the fringe players a boost.

So much for making a quick point! I'm off to buy a Christmas tree...........

This day to day basis thing is all very well but beauty is in the eye of the beholder...its' dependent on Roy knowing what a good player is...hopefully he will see that when he actually plays Babel, he might actually provide considerably more than ngog...
as far as i'm concerned i've watched ngog and babel over the last couple of years and see a lucky player who gets a few goals against weak opposition and a player who's thrown in against big teams, plays well (mostly) but doesn't grab the headline news...all this babel scores only his 2nd goal of the season is a joke cos he hasn't been given a chance...
don't expect to see babel and torres in the same team today though...

i hope to be surprised...

[Ageing Stick Insect]

Just a quick reply ASI to one small point about Babel.

I'm genuinely not surprised Babel played well Monday. I have been very critical of Benitez and now Hodgson for their treatment of the player.

Granted they see him on a day to day basis but it was always clear by his performances that he was not a winger but both Rafa and Roy continued to play him there if he did get any minutes on the pitch.

Roy promised him a run up front before Christmas but had it not been for the birth of Nandos child Babel would most likely have been flogged in January without that chance.

He played in Europe and scored, I thought played well but was then hauled off at half time.

I think alot of people on here have recognised Babels talent, have been frustrated by his performances on the wing but also understood its not his position.

If Roy decided to keep him in the team today because of his performance Monday at the expense of Nando I would not have a problem and I think it would send a great message through the team that if your playing well you will get a shot. It might show the more senior players like Torres and Gerrard that they have to work hard to stay in the team. It will prevent complacency setting in while giving the fringe players a boost.

So much for making a quick point! I'm off to buy a Christmas tree...........

Juan, I think the hope with Rafa and Roy was that Babel could be turned into a winger with his pace and power. Kuyt has done a pretty decent job on the right for us and I think they just persevered with Babel in the hope that it would work.

For whatever reason it hasn't so now Roy has to work out a system that can bring out the best in Babel up front with Torres. Maybe Maxi out on the left will work. Nice problems to have some might sy.

LATER: Babel doesn't start. He's on the bench. Ngog is preferred. Here's the lineup. Presumably 4-4-2.

Liverpool: Reina, Johnson, Konchesky, Skrtel, Kyrgiakos, Meireles, Lucas, Kuyt, Maxi, Ngog, Torres. Subs: Jones, Kelly, Aurelio, Poulsen, Cole, Jovanovic, Babel.

[Edward224]

Not good enough, never good enough, nor will he ever be good enough.

A total joke of a manager.

[Tes]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/9279137.stm

2:05 - "...for a team that wants to be in the top half of the table, it's not good enough."

So who's target is this? The manager's or the board's?

[barticus]

2:05 - "...for a team that wants to be in the top half of the table, it's not good enough."

And no doubt that mentality feeds directly into the players...
Pathetic...and we need shot now...

[Martinmarx]

I was always behind Roy, as I am always behind the manager until he's proved himself  the wrong man in the wrong place. I do think we play much better now than a few months back both home and away. Individual errors cost us points at both WHL and St. James' in games where we were the better team. Need to sort our defence out tho. I do, however, think Roy could do more to try to change the game some times.

[Clem]

I was always behind Roy, as I am always behind the manager until he's proved himself  the wrong man in the wrong place. I do think we play much better now than a few months back both home and away. Individual errors cost us points at both WHL and St. James' in games where we were the better team. Need to sort our defence out tho. I do, however, think Roy could do more to try to change the game some times.

I think that's fair. You have been stubborn in your championing him so far, and although I think that he  should never have been invited here as anything other than an amiable buffoon leading (a different) team to inevitable defeat, I do like that you stuck it out. However, 9th place in the league coming into Christmas and performing worse away from home than any team outside the bottom 3 should be enough. Tom and John don't have a clue what to do about him. Maybe he will live up to his nice guy misnomer and do it for them. The right thing that is. And sharpish would be good.