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Author Topic: What will it take for this fool to go?  (Read 26350 times)

Offline the dude abides

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #90 on: January 07, 2010, 12:28:50 AM »
Dude you do make me laugh.  Please tell me how I have 'started an abusive thread'? 

Dude I'm assuming the whole 'pope' thing is still being aimed at me, and I'm assuming it is simply because you are unable either through lack of knowledge or ability to create a well reasoned reply

ASI has said all that needs to be said, in the post above.

I'll just add that (in my opinion) you are not a genuine fan of the club, and are merely here to troll and start trouble.

The regulars here seem to have little time for you.  You'd be best served steering clear of this forum. 
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

centenaryjonny

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #91 on: January 07, 2010, 02:10:36 PM »
CJ,

I'm only going to reply to a couple of your comments as I have no wish to get into a long debate.

That's easy. The title of your thread was abusive to Rafa. He certainly isn't a fool in my opinion. How can anyone who has risen to managing a Premiership club be considered a fool? It say's more about you than Rafa that you would use such a word. Quite honestly it's something I would expect a kid to use - not an adult.

Because there is no law that say's the more you spend the more you win. Look at Chelsea. How much have they spent and they still haven't won the CL and that is Abramovich's prime target. So using your rules, the past 4 managers at Chelsea are all fools sinc they've had as much money as they want and still haven't delivered the club's primary target.

That is a ludicrous comment but as it can't be measured objectively I would suggest that Reina and Torres have been our two best players this season.

10 players for each position?  :o I don't remember there being 10 goalkeepers! Aren't many of those purchases for the reserves? I'm not saying he has a high percentage of successful buying but maybe he's had to cut his cloth according to his budget and that involves more risk. At least he gets rid when he realises they're not going to cut it as opposed to Ferguson who can afford to absorb dodgy purchases such as Nani and Carrick.

And isn't it funny that the press haven't commented at all on the dreadful form of Keane since he returned to Spurs. Harry Redknapp has even dropped him a few times he was that bad. Seems his form only worked with Berbatov and don't get me started on that waste of money!

So you judge the quality of the manager on how much he berates his team in public. Brilliant! What about Ferguson's judgement on picking that team in the first place? How about calling him a fool especially when he's sold so many good players after a fallout in the dressing room?

Ha, ok, lets see.

Your first point, not only is that covered in my last post by me saying 'The only one who will be offended is Rafa', dont be so daft.  If forum users cannot put forward their views towards people who are paid a fortune each week, and are EMPLOYED by the club, then what is the point.

Second bit, you're right, spending money is no guarantee of success, but my point was and still is, how can one man be sacked and the other given a new contract, when the first has spent half as much and won twice as much.  By the argument that Rafa deserves his money for FAILING to deliver a trophy for 3 and a half years, then surely GH should have been knighted for what he managed to achieve on half as much money?  Of course not, GH was right to be sacked, RB has been given more than enough time and no its time for him to go, and give Gerrard a chance of playing in a succesful team before he retires!

Third, you dont think that Gerrard and Cara have been our best players in the past 5 years?  Really? Oh dear.  Yeah you're right Reina has been better than Gerrard!!  Who may or may not have been our best players in the past 10 games is completely irrelevant.  A lot of people are saying that Lucas has been one of the best this season, but does that make him more important than Cara?  The two most important players when he took over were Cara and Gerrard, and now, the two most important players are Cara and Gerrard, not whos done well this month.  So all he has done is shuffle around the rest, and as has been discussed earlier with varied results.  Some better, some worse than what he had.

Fourth, as you seem unable to count, let me shed some light on so math for you.  Before this window, Rafa had bought 76 players.  There are 11 positions on the pitch.  Now Gerrard and Cara were already there, so that makes 9 positions that he had to fill.  As I have already mentioned at least 674 times before, I am talking about outfield positions, because he got Reina early on.  So thats 8 positions he had to find.  So 76 divded by 8 is just 9.5 players per position.  And before you get your knickers in a twist about goalkeepers, remember, that until the summer, he had Hyypia, and until last year he had Riise and Finnan, so up until 18 months ago, he only had to fill 5 positions!!! Or if you take those into account, and take away the keepers bought, 15 per position!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  As for the argument that they are in the reserves, what all 67 of them?  Thats 76 minus 9 (11 excluding Gerrard and Cara).  I cant wait for all these hot prospects to break into the team!!! If you ever watch the reserves, you will noticce that the two who stand out are Spearing and Darby who like Gerrard and Cara were already at the club!!!!!!!!!!!!  Rafa is employed to deliver success on the pitch with the first team, not the reserves, (the reserves who nearly got relegated last year!) and if he is going to moan that he has no money, then why not stop buying reserves?  Every player comes with wages, signing on fees and agents that need to be paid, money that is not counted as towards RBs total spend.  Even if, and its a BIG IF, you average a signing on fee at £100k for each player, thats another £7.6m that has been spent, then IF the agents fees average at 5%, then you need to add on another £11.4m, so in total at ABSOLUTE BEST thats another £19m to add on to his total spend, or for the most part waste.

Fifth, you talk about the likes of Nani and Carrick being wastes of money, and that Fergie has wasted money.  Since he came here, RB has spent more nett than Fergie, so if Fergie has wasted money yet won 3 PLs in that time, what would you descibe as RBs actions?  And havent the above 2 players been part of those teams that won the PL, so maybe not so much of a waste after all!

Sixth, Robbie Keane, we paid over the odds, never played him, then got some money back.  Ok a mistake.  Every manager makes them and I dont blame RB for buying him, just for not playing him.  He has been dropped by Spurs because of what happened at christmas, and the fact that Crouch (who we sold) and defoe are playing well.  Thats tactics, and part of the joys of having a decent squad.

Seventh, I'm not saying that publically slating your players is right or wrong, but Fergie sends his teams out EVERYTIME to win.  RB has admitted that he is often happy not to lose.  Do you think that Fergie would say 'Reading played well cos they were on the tele, we showed character and I'm happy with a replay'?  Of course not, he wants to win.  Thats why he plays attacking football, and why he is successful.

Eighth, The good players that he has sold after a fallout, who?  Beckham? Van Horse Face, Stam, Ince? He got top dollar for each one of these and replaced them overnight.  What happened after they were sold?  Where they ever as good as at United?  No, he got the best out of them and then moved them on at the right price.  He knew when to get rid, and who to replace them with.

As for you Dude, I refer you to the opening line to my thread to see how predictable and dense you really are.  My god, I thought United fans were stupid.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #92 on: January 08, 2010, 06:26:47 PM »
As for you Dude, I refer you to the opening line to my thread to see how predictable and dense you really are.  My god, I thought United fans were stupid.

I'm not the one who has to write War & Peace, each time I want to make a point.

Now kindly take your Rafa Hatefest somewhere else and give this place a break.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Juan

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #93 on: January 09, 2010, 01:13:03 PM »
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/01/09/dominic-king-rafa-benitez-should-not-have-to-manage-liverpool-fc-s-debt-100252-25558653/

DOMINIC KING: Rafa Benitez should not have to manage Liverpool FC's debt

Jan 9 2010 Liverpool Echo

RYAN BABEL has found his name the subject of debate on numerous occasions this season and that was again the case in the opening week of the new year.

This time, though, rather than sparking chatter about why he can look a world beater one moment but a bungling novice the next, the interest Birmingham City showed in Babel opened a completely different can of worms.

When news emerged that Birmingham, flush with cash following Carson Yeung’s takeover, wanted to make a marquee signing and felt they could do so with a £9m bid for Babel, the vast majority of Liverpool supporters immediately thought: “take it.”

After all, the Holland forward has flattered to deceive more times than many would care to mention, the fee looked enticing and represented a reasonable return on Liverpool’s initial outlay to Ajax in the summer of 2007.

Liverpool, however, had other ideas. Their valuation of Babel – who, remember, is still a current international, only just turned 23 and capable of producing extravagant moments of skill – is closer to £12m; they have no intentions of selling on the cheap.

On the surface, that is a totally plausible argument; good businesses do not sell commodities for prices lower than they have in mind and, furthermore, why would Babel be offloaded to a place where he could come back to haunt the Reds?

But scratch beneath the surface and there is another reason Rafa Benitez was anything but interested in talking terms with Alex McLeish, one that has set the alarms bells ringing loudly on the Kop and beyond.

While Liverpool are crying out for investment in their playing staff, had they cashed in on Babel, Benitez’s best hopes of spending a figure in excess of £9m this month would be to invest in a lottery ticket and hope all six numbers come up.

In the others words, the money would have been swallowed up to help finance the £240m debt the club is trying to manage; club insiders insist that is not the case and the deficit is manageable but critics of Tom Hicks and George Gillett will beg to differ.

True, it’s worth remembering the January window is capricious and top quality players – the type who would provide an injection of star quality Liverpool require – are not freely available; if they are, invariably clubs will have to pay over the odds.

Still it is hugely disappointing, to put it mildly, that Benitez will be limited to bringing just Maxi Rodriguez in for £1.5m when he also desperately needs experienced cover at right-back for the stricken Glen Johnson.

If he is unable to bring in a specialist for that area – and it is looking all the more likely – it will be hard to escape the feeling that Liverpool’s main aim for the next few years will be debt reduction rather than trophy gathering.

Something desperately needs to change; while many see a new stadium or a redeveloped Anfield being key to transforming Liverpool’s financial fortunes, isn’t there a case to be made for investing in the one facet that should always take priority – the team?

Just say the Reds miss out on qualifying for the Champions League this season and, heaven forbid, some of the star players are sold to make up the shortfall in revenue they would normally receive from rubbing shoulders with the best in Europe.

Slowly but surely, Liverpool would find it harder and harder to keep pace with the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and the two Manchester clubs, to the point where European football might slip off the landscape completely.

What would the point be in having a sparkling new stadium, then, if the standard of football on offer was way below what has become the norm during the past six years and the big names were out of reach?

The next five months will go a long way to shaping Liverpool’s future and if Benitez feels it is best to hang on to Babel, who might just turn a couple of games with the kind of moments he produced against Lyon and West Ham, then the decision not to sell is right.

Yet what is not right is the fact a club with the Liverpool’s history and pedigree is being forced to rummage around for bargains with nothing other than loose change; expectation and realisation, sadly, do not go hand in hand.

Offline Tes

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2010, 10:48:08 PM »
Can we draw a line under this thread and agree to two things:

1. Let's show respect to each other - afterall we're all Reds and want the best for the club, whatever our differing opinions are.

2. Let's at least be respectful to the players and management of our club, whatever our opinions are of any individual.
    Reasoned and explained criticism is fine, name calling is petty and the behaviour of the playground.

Surely we as fans can be better than that and sure as Hell, our great club deserves that it's fans behave better and rise above it, as does Jim, who's site this is, and we should all remember and appreciate those facts - however tough the going gets.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 10:52:49 PM by Tes »
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

centenaryjonny

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #95 on: January 18, 2010, 10:03:48 AM »
I'm not the one who has to write War & Peace, each time I want to make a point.

Now kindly take your Rafa Hatefest somewhere else and give this place a break.


What on earth is your problem?

Firstly you dont make any 'points', you simply insult people and secondly why should I go 'somewhere' else because you disagree with me?

Do you think being a Liverpool fan is about simply closing your eyes and ears and saying how great we are? 

Try really hard and see if you can come up with some form of argument, rather than an insult because you just make yourself into a laughing stock! 

The closest you have given to a response (other than insult me, claim that I am someone else (wtf?) and tell me to either support another club (again wtf?) or to go somehere else) is to say its because of money.

Ok, as you seem to ignored the FACT that Rafa has spent more nett than ANY OTHER MANAGER IN THE LEAGUE, have Reading spent more money than us?  Over 2 games they thoroughly deserved the win, so obviously they must have spent more money?  same with Stoke, I mean they must have have an Arab in charge?  Again, a little FACT for you. EVERY team that we have failed to beat this year have spent LESS than us, so what happens to your srgument now?

Cant wait for your well reasoned intelligent response!

Offline the dude abides

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #96 on: January 18, 2010, 03:13:45 PM »
Do you think being a Liverpool fan is about simply closing your eyes and ears and saying how great we are? 

obviously reading is not one of your stronger points.

nobody in here has been ignoring recent events at Anfield. 

But rather than insult Rafa and mock his achievements, other posters in here have been able to try and analyse what could be going wrong........and offering support.

You see, that is what being a fan is about.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #97 on: January 18, 2010, 05:08:21 PM »
Ok, as you seem to ignored the FACT that Rafa has spent more nett than ANY OTHER MANAGER IN THE LEAGUE, have Reading spent more money than us?  Over 2 games they thoroughly deserved the win, so obviously they must have spent more money?  same with Stoke, I mean they must have have an Arab in charge?  Again, a little FACT for you. EVERY team that we have failed to beat this year have spent LESS than us, so what happens to your srgument now?

You've beaten that drum on several occasions in this forum and quite frankly, it's getting boring. Please desist. We get the message.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ed

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #98 on: January 18, 2010, 05:26:03 PM »
Totally agree dude!

I mean once I finally accepted that we weren't going to win the league this season (last week! lol), I just got on with it. Rafa's lost his mojo for awhile, tbh the guy has a lot on his plate, it happens! But I'm not going to desert him in his hour of need. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

I just wish the haters would f**k off and die. Same c**ts baying for his blood now would be the first to have slaughtered him if he'd moved to Real for twice the money. Benitez has enough dignity to go if he feels he can't turn it around and in the meantime deserves our support.

I'm really really looking forward to the Spurs game!

Offline the dude abides

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #99 on: January 18, 2010, 05:36:08 PM »
Totally agree dude!

I mean once I finally accepted that we weren't going to win the league this season (last week! lol), I just got on with it. Rafa's lost his mojo for awhile, tbh the guy has a lot on his plate, it happens! But I'm not going to desert him in his hour of need. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

I just wish the haters would f**k off and die. Same c**ts baying for his blood now would be the first to have slaughtered him if he'd moved to Real for twice the money. Benitez has enough dignity to go if he feels he can't turn it around and in the meantime deserves our support.

well said, Ed.

Yes, it's no big secret that we have had a shocking season.  And come the summer, hard questions will need to be asked.

But the club needs our support in it's desperate hour of need.  It has given us so much over the decades.  Rafa has made qualifying for the CL an expected end of season event.  Perhaps that is what is gonna hurt him.....the inflated expectations, with the way he has enhanced the club.

Shankly had poor seasons.  Dalglish got off to an awful start one year.  These things happen. 

The club badly needs investment.  Rafa has kept the wolves from the door for the past couple of years.  But the off-the-pitch issues are now finally impacting on on-the-pitch issues.
In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #100 on: January 18, 2010, 05:55:59 PM »
Totally agree, come the summer hard questions need to be asked.

Sometimes you'd think that the end of world is nigh with these weirdos that seem to have a wart on their f*nny relating to Rafa.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #101 on: January 18, 2010, 06:14:49 PM »
Totally agree, come the summer hard questions need to be asked.

Sometimes you'd think that the end of world is nigh with these weirdos that seem to have a wart on their f*nny relating to Rafa.

exactly.

they have tiny brains and big mouths....which is a terrible combination.

history tells us that long term success is built on continuity......one doesn't throw the baby out with the dishwater, every time a dark cloud appears.

success is built on having a good manager at the helm....and giving him the resources (time and money) to do his job.

I only wish that Man Utd had had a few more kneejerkers in the 80s.  Maybe the Ferguson dynasty could have been stopped in it's tracks.



In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

centenaryjonny

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2010, 02:31:15 PM »
You've beaten that drum on several occasions in this forum and quite frankly, it's getting boring. Please desist. We get the message.

I refer you to the quote that came after this post:

well said, Ed.

Yes, it's no big secret that we have had a shocking season.  And come the summer, hard questions will need to be asked.

But the club needs our support in it's desperate hour of need.  It has given us so much over the decades.  Rafa has made qualifying for the CL an expected end of season event.  Perhaps that is what is gonna hurt him.....the inflated expectations, with the way he has enhanced the club.

Shankly had poor seasons.  Dalglish got off to an awful start one year.  These things happen. 

The club badly needs investment.  Rafa has kept the wolves from the door for the past couple of years.  But the off-the-pitch issues are now finally impacting on on-the-pitch issues.


So it would seem that despite 'banging this drum' some people are still painfully unaware of the FACTS.  The investment has been there and it has been squandered.  There is not a bottomless pit of money to keep giving Rafa to buy second rate foreigners that stay for a year or so then get swapped for another one, 

It has taken him 5 years to build this squad and it is awful, there is no 'squad' just 2 or 3 decent buys with average players around them.  Take out these 2 or 3 and our team is a joke.  If it was your money would you keep giving it to someone who spends it so easily and so badly? 

Totally agree, come the summer hard questions need to be asked.

Sometimes you'd think that the end of world is nigh with these weirdos that seem to have a wart on their f*nny relating to Rafa.

Another wasted season, and another string of awful displays what is the problem with asking questions as to why?

exactly.

they have tiny brains and big mouths....which is a terrible combination.

history tells us that long term success is built on continuity......one doesn't throw the baby out with the dishwater, every time a dark cloud appears.

success is built on having a good manager at the helm....and giving him the resources (time and money) to do his job.

I only wish that Man Utd had had a few more kneejerkers in the 80s.  Maybe the Ferguson dynasty could have been stopped in it's tracks.

Tiny little brains?  I thought you were set against insulting over the interent?  You cried when it was one of the Hicks didnt you?  As for the actual insult, I have yet to see you you counter my argument at all, just throw insults and say cliches.  Have you ever actually been to Anfield? 

You say that 'success is built on continuity', ok, so what exactly is continuous about 77 different players in 5 years?  How can you demand continuity then see different players come and go every week?  The only thing continuous is under-achievement and wasted money.  The fact that Fergie could have been sacked has nothing to do with anything does it?  So if Bolton had kept hold of Gary Megson, then surely 'History shows us' that Bolton would have been a success?  So surely Roy Evans should still be in charge? Or Houllier?  Why is it ok to replace them, but then 'History shows us' that we have to keep them?

If it isnt working, then you have to change it, and after 5 years in charge it clearly isnt working, and nobody (I dont think) could argue that it is.

If a new manager took over, how many players would he want to keep?  3, maybe 4, the others would be on their way. 

You keep blaming it all on money, so as I asked previously, did Stoke spend the same as us? Did Reading, or Portsmouth, Or Fiorentina, Or Sunderland, etc etc spend more than us?  Nope, we have spent more than anyone, so it cannot be used as an excuse, because it is simply not true, and to say it is just makes you seem a bit silly



kopite70

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2010, 02:57:04 PM »
centenaryjonny I can only assume that you are one of the many creeping threough the gates of Anfield these days that has little regard to the history and honour of our great club.....to point out a few observations.

Oh I didn't read all your post because I could have flown through several time zones and still not have finished!

We don't sack managers because they have had a few bad results go their way!
We support a manager who is clearly better than what we have had for the last 20 years and has his hands tied behind his back with a pair of owners that would serve better working a tMiltons in town than owning our great club!
I hear people like you most weeks now at Anfield a growning army of people (can't use the word fan if it doesn't fit) loyalty counts for a lot at Anfield, support our great team if you have crappy comments and witch hunts then I for one can't be "A*sed"

A loyal fan of 35 years on the KOP!

Offline the dude abides

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Re: What will it take for this fool to go?
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2010, 04:25:44 PM »
The investment has been there and it has been squandered.  There is not a bottomless pit of money to keep giving Rafa to buy second rate foreigners that stay for a year or so then get swapped for another one

Pope, you're like a record, with the needle stuck in the same groove.

Your claims re transfer investment, have been repeatedly shown up for the nonsense that they are.

Rafa's had, up until this season, some 16 or 17 million pounds NET (each year) to add to the team.

We have never been able to compete with Chelsea or United (or now City) for the top drawer names.  We can't afford to throw out mid to high 20 millions, or 30 million plus, on a player.  United, City and Chelsea can (or could, in United's case).

Why don't you take your plastic support to one of those clubs.  And leave genuine support to the real fans.


In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.