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Author Topic: I'm having a bit of a crisis  (Read 6713 times)

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I'm having a bit of a crisis
« on: January 21, 2010, 08:53:16 PM »
Hi guys i've been offline for a while - pc blew up and internet revoked at work.  Now I have to work a bit.  I see that the forum has been taken over by a magpie, aw well that's what magpies do, they steal shiny things.  Better make sure our silverware is well locked up.

anyway ...a fellow red handed something he printed from tinternet me a piece at work today.  I did say work a bit, not all day. I don't know how old it is or if its on here already but I did my best to get up to speed before posting.

Bear with me I have a crisis at the end. Basically he points out that LFC are 2nd only to Chelsea in Net spend and yadda yadda yadda. More interestingly he points out that Manure, Arsenal were actually weakened over the summer with the loss of Adebayor, Toure, Tevez and Ronaldo, Chelsea more or less stayed the same whareas Liverpool spent 18mil on Johnston and 20 mil on Aquilani (90 players over 5.5 years).  Oh and 2 mil on Kyrgiakos, who by the way dosen't know the first thing about zonal marking and i love him to bits for it.  I digress. You only have to look at the league table and raise an eyebrow.

he goes on to say that It could be argued that we have had a lot injuries but Utd and Arsenal have had horrific starts to seasons through injury and then went on to win the league.

He then quotes Ballague.  "Rafa has always had a high through put of players, this is what keeps the message on". i guess in case anyone gets complacent.  "If senior players lose the message then they are sold"

IMO I think that Stevie Me will leave in the summer regardless of league position and, I have asked the question before...for the good of the club does Rafa have the balls to sell Stevie.  i think we have better balance when SG is out of the side and in recent weeks i'm sick of his sulking face. I do think he's best midfielder in the world and he has got us out of some serious holes in the past. but he's not a captain and not a leader.

Here's my crisis.  If we sell SG, for arguments sake, for 50-60 mil, its a hypothetical figure, would you be happy?

If you are happy then you obviously have trust in Rafa. and God only knows why I do.

but here's the thing...i don't trust Rafa to spend that 50-60 mil.  I know that it's all hypothetical but if i don't trust my manager to spend wisely, does that mean he has to go.  even if the current caretakers of the club were to give Rafa 50 mil tommorrow and say buy yourself out of trouble, i don't think he could do it.  How can I have faith but no trust. My head hurts

Offline Juan

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 09:32:35 PM »


Here's my crisis.  If we sell SG, for arguments sake, for 50-60 mil, its a hypothetical figure, would you be happy?

If you are happy then you obviously have trust in Rafa. and God only knows why I do.

but here's the thing...i don't trust Rafa to spend that 50-60 mil.  I know that it's all hypothetical but if i don't trust my manager to spend wisely, does that mean he has to go.  even if the current caretakers of the club were to give Rafa 50 mil tommorrow and say buy yourself out of trouble, i don't think he could do it.  How can I have faith but no trust. My head hurts

I think it is a fair predicament to find yourself contemplating.

I trust Rafa but would probably wait with nervous anticipation as to who he would target were he given 60 million. (especially the fact that its a world cup year, two or three good performances often fools managers in to paying over the odds for over performing nobodys)

As for the Stevie G argument its a very tough call. If we were offered 60 million I would have to say take. Stevie G still has a couple of years at the top level and he is by no means even on his way to being finished but 60 million is alot of money and as long as rafa could re-invest i would say take it.

On the other hand though, losing Gerarrd potentially has an adverse knock on effect. Torres could follow him out the door. It makes it more difficult to attract top name players. Chances of success becomes even tougher, it becomes harder to generate the same levels of revenue and once your 60 mil is gone you'd better hope your team is stronger for it.

So in my roundabout way to answer your question, would I sell Gerrard for 60 mil and be happy, I really don't know. You'd want to have a top young replacement lined up to step in.

 

Offline Tes

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 09:48:07 PM »

So in my roundabout way to answer your question, would I sell Gerrard for 60 mil and be happy, I really don't know.
 

I think there's a decent case to be made both ways with neither case obviously stronger than the other.

Maybe factoring in age and his injury record over the last couple of seasons (Viera went the same way at Arsenal injury wise) may, maybe, possibly, could just about tip the balance in favour of a sale (price very dependant) but it's only worthwhile if the money is spent so there is an overall improvement across the team.

I think Liverpool FC is as big an attraction in it's own right as the chance to play with any individual player at the club. Or at least it should be. If not, there's always Chelsea or Man City.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Kopite999

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 09:56:13 PM »
Cant believe people would sell Gerrard. I wonder how many times in the past 6/7 years he's been our man of the match? probably 50 per cent (at least). He hasnt had the best of seasons this time around but even to entertain the thought of selling Gerrard is madness. To sell him would send out completely the wrong signal. Torres wouldnt put up with that and wouldnt hang around for long

Offline the dude abides

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 10:15:55 PM »
FloPo, good to see you back online. 

To answer your question, I'd sell Gerrard in a heartbeat.  Heck, never mind 60 million, if someone offered 40 million, it would be a brilliant piece of business.

It's not merely the injuries or his awful form this season.

Gerrard was/is our version of United's Bryan Robson.  To win leagues, you need a TEAM.  And Stevie was never the typical Liverpool type player.  He was never a team player.  He was never someone with intelligent tactical discipline.  I watched him closely over the years...and was exasperated by how often he gifted possession to opponents.....often at dangerous points in big games.

One example, and this never gets mentioned by anyone.  Riise was the fall guy for the soft late own-goal in the CL semi at Anfield a year or two back (which ultimately cost us another CL final appearance).  But who was one of the numpkins, at the other end who refused to keep the fuking ball at the chelsea corner flag and play out time?  Yip, you've guessed it.

And he was never captain material either.

40 million would do nicely.  AC Milan or Inter could have his services.  Though in Italy, he'd founder.  They don't like aggression and would roll over when he made his first challenge.  Neither do they appreciate gifting the ball to the opposition.

sir dude (head of the Stevie Appreciation Society)





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FlotionPotion

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 10:16:59 PM »
but Kopite, what if he wanted to go

Offline Tes

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 10:47:10 PM »
Cant believe people would sell Gerrard. I wonder how many times in the past 6/7 years he's been our man of the match? probably 50 per cent (at least). He hasnt had the best of seasons this time around but even to entertain the thought of selling Gerrard is madness. To sell him would send out completely the wrong signal. Torres wouldnt put up with that and wouldnt hang around for long

I think the gut instinct is to agree however here's something else to consider. If he plays out his career at the club we have to then find a replacement or replace the sum effect, and where do we find the money to do so, unless Rafa is able to unearth a young player very soon who has passed under every other clubs' scouting radar. It's not great to have throw in financial considerations but unless the ownership changes and for an infinately better variety then it's the harsh reality laid bare.
Don't make the same mistake twice, there's plenty of new ones to choose from.

Those who choose to preach would do well to take note of their own sermons.

Offline Kopite999

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 10:55:51 PM »
Who says he wants to go? I'd be very surprised if he wants to up root his family to Spain or italy. The amount of times i've been to Anfield and he's been head and shoulders above anyone on the pitch. He's not been himself this year but i think i'll allow him that for the performances he's given us throughout his career. Amnesia seems to be taking a grip of this forum
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 10:57:58 PM by Kopite999 »

Offline Ed

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 11:04:58 PM »
Selling Gerrard, not sure!

I've argued for awhile that I'm suspect about his captaining ability. We had the argument way back here:

http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/liverpool-fc/notw-rafa-to-spend-pound70m/30/


It would be interesting to wonder whether are inability to beat weaker teams consistently in the past is connected to his style of captaincy. No doubt he can rise to the big one-off occasion as he's demonstrated on many occasions.

I'd like to see a new captain and I'd like to see Gerrard play for us for another 3-4 years.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 11:14:28 PM by Ed »

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 12:01:07 AM »
I do find it strange that because SG has not had a very good season it's being suggested we dispose of him. But when the same logic is applied to Rafa it gets dismissed.

Everyone is entitled to have a bad one. Yes, he's not without his faults but please remember we would not have got to Istanbul without him and would never have come back from 0-3 down without him. Same goes for 2006 Cup Final dubbed "Gerrard's Final" and perhaps the best since the Matthews final of '53.

If he wants to go abroad then fine but we shouldn't push him out of the door after years of fine service. That is not the Liverpool Way surely?

And if you got £40M for him how much of that do you think Rafa would see? H&G would use it to pay off the debt just as Ronaldo's sale did at Manure.

I imagine he will be hugely relieved at how the team has performed without him. He might be happy to sit in a more withdrawn role. Aquilani will do well just behind Torres and will eventually replace Stevie. He's been a fine servant of the club and deserves our respect.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Juan

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 12:48:42 AM »
Who says he wants to go? I'd be very surprised if he wants to up root his family to Spain or italy. The amount of times i've been to Anfield and he's been head and shoulders above anyone on the pitch. He's not been himself this year but i think i'll allow him that for the performances he's given us throughout his career. Amnesia seems to be taking a grip of this forum

Kopite I completely understand your point.

I have said on previous posts that Gerrard should be afforded an off season,whether it be because hes injured or just off form. He has been nothing short of sensational for us for a decade now. And still my favorite player.

For me weighing up any decision to sell or not would be purely my head ruling my heart. I would love to see him finish out his career at the club.

On the other hand if someone offered 60 million for him at nearly 30 and with our financial situation it would have to be considered.

If the Yanks would just sell up to people with the money to afford Rafa a transfer budget without having to sell players then these topics wouldn't even need to be raised. At the current time though that isnt the case

Offline Kopite999

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2010, 03:05:59 PM »
Watch this and then say you still would sell him. If it wasnt for Gerrard we wouldnt have been playing Champions league football in recent years.we would have been lucky to get uefa cup football


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2abvy4n1k4

Offline Kopite999

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2010, 03:21:14 PM »
And this one just to remember what we're capable of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWkI8QX68bg&feature=related

Offline Kopite999

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 03:39:37 PM »
If I was calling Stevie G, Stevie Me i would feel very ashamed

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: I'm having a bit of a crisis
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2010, 05:49:56 PM »
Wonderful memories. Thanks Kopite999.  :D
Cheers,
Ray