Anfield Road - Liverpool FC Forum

Football and lesser sports => Liverpool FC, football, sport => Topic started by: Tes on May 24, 2017, 04:49:20 PM

Title: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on May 24, 2017, 04:49:20 PM
Looks like we'll start the season with a new physio:

Liverpool to appoint new physio Christopher Rohrbeck from Mainz

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/english-premier-league/story/3133108/liverpool-to-appoint-new-physio-christopher-rohrbeck-from-mainz (http://www.espnfc.co.uk/english-premier-league/story/3133108/liverpool-to-appoint-new-physio-christopher-rohrbeck-from-mainz)

It doesn't say whether he'll be our head physio, like he was at Mainz, but if he can help keep more of our players fitter than this season, then he'll be a welcome addition, whatever his job tital.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2017, 10:07:59 PM
If Huddersfield beat Reading tomorrow and gain promotion to the PL, we can probably expect David Wagner to try and get Danny Ward on loan again. I think it would be a smart move by us to allow it.
Despite doing well in the Championship with Huddersfield, would any of us really be comfortable yet with him as no1, or being called upon to cover for a long term injury.

However, a season as first choice in the PL, where you'd imagine he'd have plenty to do, could see him really flourish, and just like players such as Jordan Pickford, or the likes of Michael Keane at Burnley or Ben Gibson at Boro, all now have (big)ger clubs after them, Danny Ward could push himself into the same bracket, but he'd already be ours.

I know it may seem like another season with Mignolet and Karius, but maybe Mignolet will continue to improve, or maybe with a season under his belt in the PL, Karius will finally come good and show why Klopp chose to sign him over more established keepers from the Bundesliga, or elsewhere.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on May 31, 2017, 07:47:20 PM
Our new away kit?



(https://thekitman81-q1abk3gys0lllvx.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/img_4990.jpg)


They get the away kit as wrong as they get the home kit right.

Why can't we stick with yellow with red trim, white with red trim or the all black.

At least it's not as hideous as:

(https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liverweb.org.uk%2Faway9596.gif&hash=c3b3fde097956bb128847675f8b8e36b)


or


(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/30/24/e6/3024e649e45818d3ae5d4fb9ce61f0ba.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on May 31, 2017, 07:49:05 PM
It looks like the junior teams will have a different kit from the senior side this season:



(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/08/f7/9d/08f79d2ba7895acfa1d8ee1cd8a2d2ef.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on June 26, 2017, 10:39:54 PM
Even if we sign Van Dijk or someone of his level, surely we have to adapt our style of play otherwise Van Dijk could end up looking no better than what we have already, as the defence would still get swamped with the lack of protection it gets.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on July 21, 2017, 11:26:34 PM
Liverpool defender Joe Gomez insists he wants to fight for his place rather than go out on loan

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-defender-joe-gomez-insists-10848939 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-defender-joe-gomez-insists-10848939)


Great attitude. I'd love to see him have a proper breakthrough season, especially if we don't get Van Dijk, and see him establish himself alongside Matip.

We've got to keep Sakho (though somehow I don't see that happening) if we don't get Van Dijk, as Matip, Lovren, Sakho, Gomez and Klavan, looks stronger than Matip, Lovren, Klavan and Lucas, though obviously still not as strong as we'd like it.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2017, 02:06:46 PM
And we're off to a flyer.

Things on the 'to do' list this Summer were 1) sign a proper, quality left back to replace our midfielder who plays left back ahead of the clown that is supposed to be a left back 2) sign an upgrade on Lovren as he's the cause of too many goals with his lack of concentration 3) make sure we're never in a position to have Lovren and Moreno in the same team at the same time.

So we signed a left back, not sure yet of his quality, then leave him out for the first match. Leave Milner on the bench. Play the disaster that is Moreno on the back of one reasonable performance, in the entire time Klopp has been here, and that was in a preseason friendly.

Don't bother looking beyond one centre half target, even when we've made an early and complete dog's breakfast of signing that one target, and instead play the guy who needs upgrading in the same defence as the clown who shouldn't even be at a club with any serious intentions of being successful.

Defence = blind spot for the last two Liverpool managers.

Klopp has no excuses now. Third season at the club. No longer new to either the club or the league. No excuse for not having either the players or the method(s) to be able to defend.

It already had the makings of a long season based on the lack of squad strengthening for the possibility of CL football, now Coutinho bails, and the blindingly obvious problem we have had throughout the last two manager's time, is still every bit as bad, and is laid embarrassingly bare again.

All we need is for Hoffenheim to put is out of our CL misery and we're all set to focus on the challenge for a UEFA Cup spot for next season.

Ah well, there's always next season.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2017, 02:16:33 PM
Liverpool need more than Virgil van Dijk to fix their defensive flaws, insists former Reds defender Jamie Carragher

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4784570/Liverpool-need-Virgil-van-Dijk-fiix-defence.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4784570/Liverpool-need-Virgil-van-Dijk-fiix-defence.html)

Can't argue with any of that.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2017, 02:20:41 PM
We can't rely on outscoring the opposition, when teams are more adept at keeping us out than we are at keeping them out.

We can't rely on a smash and grab of this type every time to win games. We will end up on the end of the opposition's mugging more times than this sort of performance and methods will see us get the 3 points.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on August 12, 2017, 02:56:23 PM
Klopp has no excuses now. Third season at the club. No longer new to either the club or the league. No excuse for not having either the players or the method(s) to be able to defend.

It already had the makings of a long season based on the lack of squad strengthening for the possibility of CL football, now Coutinho bails, and the blindingly obvious problem we have had throughout the last two manager's time, is still every bit as bad, and is laid embarrassingly bare again.

All we need is for Hoffenheim to put is out of our CL misery and we're all set to focus on the challenge for a UEFA Cup spot for next season.

Ah well, there's always next season.

90+1 Trent Alexander-Arnold, who has had a good game, is replaced by Joe Gomez.

I was cussing at the screen, when I saw him make a defensive change in the 91st minute.

Asking for trouble.

And he got it.   

And anyway - despite what others think, I have never rated Gomez.   He would never be in a team of mine.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on August 12, 2017, 03:01:49 PM
We can't rely on outscoring the opposition, when teams are more adept at keeping us out than we are at keeping them out.

like I said many times last year - I fear that Klopp is no more than a German Keegan.

He has no interest in defence - or balance.

It's all about offence.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2017, 04:30:29 PM
90+1 Trent Alexander-Arnold, who has had a good game, is replaced by Joe Gomez.

I was cussing at the screen, when I saw him make a defensive change in the 91st minute.

Asking for trouble.

And he got it.   


Exactly. You don't waste time as substitutions get time added on, and even if they didn't, you don't want a player 'new' to the match, with not enough time to 'acclimatise', to be on the pitch. It's an unnecessary risk, like making a substitution during the break in play as a corner is awarded.

We score 3 goals away from home and yet we don't win. We weren't playing at the Bernabeu. We weren't playing against a team that is likely to walk the league or sweep all before them domestically this season, and they've a manager who's new to the club, with half a season's experience of the PL with an ultimately relegated team.

Is there even enough of Van Dijk to paper over all of the obvious cracks?
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2017, 07:08:28 PM
Carra on why we can't defend:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/636907/liverpool-watford-carragher-redknapp-argue-defence-virgil-van-dijk-video-sky-sports (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/636907/liverpool-watford-carragher-redknapp-argue-defence-virgil-van-dijk-video-sky-sports)

Haven't we been saying the same thing on here for ages? Thought so.  >:(

Klopp says we have to better etc, etc, but think back to Chelsea at Anfield (the game in which Gerrard slipped). That team looked well drilled. They all knew individually what to do and how their role fitted into the overall team pattern.

Can you say the same about us? Under Rodgers? And now under Klopp? Of course not.

Frustrating is not the word.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Gurdeep on August 14, 2017, 09:42:39 AM
Was at Vicarage Rd on Saturday to watch the game.  Here's an analysis from the away end...... 

1st Half:  Abysmal.  Midfield...er what midfield.

2nd Half: Much better, moving and passing sharper/quicker.  Defending and sensing danger....no change there then!

We looked good in preseason.  The team that played on Saturday looked like a team that was disjointed and dysfunctional.  Henderson with his crablike passes not really using his ability to make penetrating passes.  Wijnaldum looked lost and Can......well not really sure what he was doing.  That insane back heel to Moreno when he could have simply cleared the ball forward led to Watford's throw-in and subsequently another goal for the men in Yellow.  Everytime they had a set-piece we knew it would cause us danger/lead to another goal.  Watford on the other hand were exploiting our fragility very well.  Their number 33 (striker) who was essentially an american fridge freezer on legs just bullied our central defenders, it was embarrassing!  Lovren spent most of his time on his back-side.  Apart from 1 clear chance they created in the first half they were doing nothing from open play.  We caused our downfall, gifted all three goals to them!

I've been a huge admirer of Her Klopp, but I hate to say it but I feel this is yet another false dawn in our history.  There's just no balance to our squad, no spine, appreciate this is the first game of the season but this team apart from Salah is exactly the same as lasts.  Not really sure where we go from here as we will most definitely be leaking in 40+ goals again this year.  With Champions league coming up (if we qualify) this squad with its history of injury's will suffer greatly.  Expect us to be out of top 4 come end of season  :(


Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 14, 2017, 12:06:23 PM
Was at Vicarage Rd on Saturday to watch the game.  Here's an analysis from the away end...... 

1st Half:  Abysmal.  Midfield...er what midfield.

2nd Half: Much better, moving and passing sharper/quicker.  Defending and sensing danger....no change there then!

We looked good in preseason.  The team that played on Saturday looked like a team that was disjointed and dysfunctional.  Henderson with his crablike passes not really using his ability to make penetrating passes.  Wijnaldum looked lost and Can......well not really sure what he was doing.  That insane back heel to Moreno when he could have simply cleared the ball forward led to Watford's throw-in and subsequently another goal for the men in Yellow.  Everytime they had a set-piece we knew it would cause us danger/lead to another goal.  Watford on the other hand were exploiting our fragility very well.  Their number 33 (striker) who was essentially an american fridge freezer on legs just bullied our central defenders, it was embarrassing!  Lovren spent most of his time on his back-side.  Apart from 1 clear chance they created in the first half they were doing nothing from open play.  We caused our downfall, gifted all three goals to them!

I've been a huge admirer of Her Klopp, but I hate to say it but I feel this is yet another false dawn in our history.  There's just no balance to our squad, no spine, appreciate this is the first game of the season but this team apart from Salah is exactly the same as lasts.  Not really sure where we go from here as we will most definitely be leaking in 40+ goals again this year.  With Champions league coming up (if we qualify) this squad with its history of injury's will suffer greatly.  Expect us to be out of top 4 come end of season  :(

Brilliant post, Gurdeep. Welcome back, my friend.

It's so hard to throw the feeling that Klopp has a similar blindspot to Rodgers where the defensive side of the game is concerned.

I know Edward doesn't agree, but I think there's a lot to be said for a defensive coach. Work on set pieces, general defensive organisation etc, are specialist areas of the overall picture.
Zonal marking has to be spot on, and doesn't seem to work in the PL. Teams put a lot of effort into set pieces, more so than on the continent probably.

The first corner was superb in itself, but even that can be countered by setting up correctly. We simply don't make it hard enough for the opposition.
Yes, of course, like Klopp said, teams score from set pieces, but when you make it so easy for them then the probability massively increases. Likewise, how many do we score from set pieces?
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Gurdeep on August 14, 2017, 12:49:09 PM
Cheers Tes. 

One thing I forgot to mention was the substitutions made by Klopp from the 80th min.  WHY?  Ok, could understand him bringing Origi on (fresh legs), but to take off Trent....and for what?  So he could get applause from the away end?  Mental decision!  Disrupted what was already disfunctional back four, and with Gomes being introduced to create further internal havoc.

As I stated earlier, only first game of the season...BUT....Klopp's supposedly to have had a good pre-season.  Team well drilled etc etc...  Well against Watford (made them look like Barca) we looked mid-table!
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Edward224 on August 14, 2017, 07:56:34 PM
With no further additions at best we'll finish 6th and at worst 8th or 9th.

We are light years behind both manc clubs and spurs in particular.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 14, 2017, 09:14:47 PM
With no further additions at best we'll finish 6th

God loves an optimist (allegedly).  ;D

Can't argue with any of that, and if I did, it would be to say it won't even be that good, but I'm not, so I won't.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on August 15, 2017, 05:20:21 PM
with Keita and Van Dijk, we could have won the CL - or at least got to the final.....but finished 5th or 6th in the league.

we may still do well in the CL - Klopp is set up for playing big teams.

but we still have to get past this German side in the qualifiers.  If I were them, i would be licking my lips at set pieces.

They could score a few against us.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2017, 07:09:57 PM
Team for tonight:

Mignolet, Alexander-Arnold, Lovren, Matip, Moreno, Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum, Salah, Mane, Firmino.

Subs: Karius, Klavan, Gomez, Milner, Grujic, Solanke, Origi.

How does Moreno get in ahead of Milner or Robertson? Normal service was resumed against Watford, and the 'pre-season' version has been safely packed away until July 2018.

Still, I suppose for Robertson, who's travelled with the squad, the delights of Hoffenheim may still be better than the City of Culture.

What was the purpose of signing a left back, only to leave us in the same position as last season and the season before?
I thought the idea this Summer was only to buy players that improved the first eleven, or did I miss the bit where that only applied to certain positions.

It makes me wonder how much Klopp knew of Robertson, and his suitability or otherwise, and whether he's gone along with a 'recommendation' from the 'recruitment committee' clowns.

I wonder how long it will take him to realise, (if he hasn't already done so) that he's no longer working with the likes of  Michael Zorc and co (or people of their standard), and if or what he will do when the reality hits him fully.
 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2017, 07:17:51 PM
Absolute class: https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/liverpool-klopp-set-pieces-moreno-138200 (https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/liverpool-klopp-set-pieces-moreno-138200)

From now on Moreno will be known by the brighter of his split personalities - Baldrick.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on August 15, 2017, 07:50:34 PM
 ;D    Baldrick

re Robertson - sounds like our data scout's choice.

tonight - hope we can withstand the Germans......first half hour could be a fight.

PS - I am in Berlin tonight.  Interested when I go down now to the bar - what locals will be saying re klopp and who they support.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Gurdeep on August 15, 2017, 09:05:32 PM
Moreno.....Gawd help us 😩😂😂. What an absolute tit.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2017, 10:26:27 PM
Lovren, terrible 'tackle' for the penalty, done all ends up. Well done Mignolet with the save.

It's a shame we couldn't hold out for the clean sheet, as now they'll be more likely to go for it at Anfield, than if they had two goals to get just to draw level.

Still, we're halfway there.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2017, 10:39:45 PM
Good interview with Didi Hamann:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpools-virgil-van-dijk-pursuit-13476060 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpools-virgil-van-dijk-pursuit-13476060)
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Gurdeep on August 17, 2017, 09:48:17 AM
God loves an optimist (allegedly).  ;D

Can't argue with any of that, and if I did, it would be to say it won't even be that good, but I'm not, so I won't.  ;D

Light years behind in our recruitment!
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2017, 03:59:48 PM
Light years behind in our recruitment!

And different planets. We're a shambles, and it comes from those at the top, who don't have the first clue, and seemingly won't hire or take advice from those that know. How the likes of Rick Parry aren't on the board as honorary members.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 19, 2017, 02:51:59 PM
Line up for Palace:

Mignolet, Gomez, Matip, Klavan, Robertson, Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum, Mane, Firmino, Sturridge. Subs: Karius, Lovren, Flanagan, Can, Salah, Solanke, Origi.

It's a decent bench, pretty well balanced. Interesting to see that he's rested Can (rather than Hendo) and Salah.

Firmino, Sturridge and Mane up top. How's that going to work, I wonder? Do we lose something from Firmino or Sturridge if one of them has to play in a more wide position, or are we going to see an even more fluid front three?
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 19, 2017, 05:21:14 PM
3 points and a clean sheet. Benteke didn't score against us (for once).

After last weekend's debacle and the throwing away of 2 points, I'll take today's result and keeping a clean sheet, at home, shutting out Benteke etc before Wednesday's return against Hoffenheim.

A repeat of today's score, or the clean sheet part at least sees us through, definitely in the CL and hopefully in a position now (financially, at least from FSG's perspective) to get something more done before the window shuts.

Damn, this being a optimist thing is hard work, especially where we're concerned at the moment.

The thing with FSG not accepting (at least not yet) bids for Coutinho, along with our lack of signing alternatives or allegedly not having a Plan B of any sort when not being able to sign highly priced, though extremely difficult to get players, is that I hope Klopp hasn't been put in a position where it's either keep Coutinho but with no other 'significant' signings, or if we want those difference making signings then Coutinho has to be cashed in on.

Anyone else think it's odd that whilst we've gone after Keita and Van Dijk, two players that it looked difficult to successfully negotiate for from the outset, and not switching to any other targets when it started to be pretty obvious we'd not make a breakthrough, and with no reasonable signs of anyone else being in the pipeline, that's it's a case, with FSG, that 'you don't actually need to achieve, you just need to look like you're trying', or am I just being cynical. (The optimistic bit didn't last long  ;D).
 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Gurdeep on August 21, 2017, 01:12:07 PM
Anyone else think it's odd that whilst we've gone after Keita and Van Dijk, two players that it looked difficult to successfully negotiate for from the outset, and not switching to any other targets when it started to be pretty obvious we'd not make a breakthrough, and with no reasonable signs of anyone else being in the pipeline, that's it's a case, with FSG, that 'you don't actually need to achieve, you just need to look like you're trying', or am I just being cynical. (The optimistic bit didn't last long  ;D).

Not odd at all.  I think a lot of supporters including me have had that thought over the summer transfer window.  To be seen to do something rather than actually doing something feels like a good fit for FSG.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 21, 2017, 04:24:14 PM
Not odd at all.  I think a lot of supporters including me have had that thought over the summer transfer window.  To be seen to do something rather than actually doing something feels like a good fit for FSG.

When you start to look at the overall amount spent over the last 3 transfer windows, you really do to start to wonder (all sorts of things).

When Klopp was appointed I was looking forward to seeing us do Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge type deals, uncovering rough diamonds and polishing them up. Likewise with Rodgers, the only potential saving grace of any sort was the fact that he might do the same ie signing Van Dijk in the Summer of 2015 or even 2013 (when he moved to Celtic) was exactly the sort of deal I was expecting from him.

That didn't and doesn't seem to be happening, nor are we landing more established players for 'decent' prices, and just when you thought we would be investing in a number of players, be they one or the other type mentioned above, a mixture of the two, or 3 - 5 genuine first choice players, we don't seem to be doing that.

Even picking up Salah, Keita and Van Dijk, would leave us weak in some areas and under strength in others.

Likewise FSG appearing to be trying to do high priced deals, whilst holding on to the likes of Sakho, Markovic and Moreno (I'm sure Klopp will see the reality soon enough) etc, by asking too much for players clubs clearly know we don't want (there's no disguising the fact that it's any other way), and not raising some cash, whilst clearing the decks somewhat, seems at odds with not actually spending those big sums. It seems like the worse of both worlds, and a very confused approach.

I wonder how much of an influence Edwards, Fallows, Hunter etc is having in all of these things, as they're the thing that connects both managers' time here. Just how much of a network of contacts does Klopp have, or was Michael Zorc the real power and genius behind the throne, and of course there's no-one of his ilk, with possibly everything he brings to the table, here for Klopp to utilise and benefit from.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 23, 2017, 10:17:36 PM
Good going forward, still wobbly at the back.

Does Klopp honestly think he cannot improve on Lovren?

At least we're through and can now actually claim to be in the CL. 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 24, 2017, 04:41:16 PM
So, we've got Leicester away in the League Cup third round.

Anyone know who or what 'Carabao' is?  That's the 'sponsor' of this season's League Cup.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 27, 2017, 11:02:47 AM
Apparently Karius plays today and Mignolet is not even in the squad, despite supposedly not being ill, injured, or obviously suspended.

Why? What's he done wrong?

I could be cynical and say because he's not German and wasn't signed by Klopp, but I won't, and I don't think that's the case, but it's an odd one anyway. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/27/simon-mignolet-omitted-liverpool-squad-face-arsenal/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/27/simon-mignolet-omitted-liverpool-squad-face-arsenal/)

I think I'd prefer Ward ahead of Karius. He was superb for Huddersfield last season and I see him as the safer long term bet than Karius.

As I said. This one is odd.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 27, 2017, 06:46:51 PM
Wow. 4-0. Wasn't really expecting that, and unmarked bed linen for Karius.

2nd in the league. 2nd highest goal difference. It's a solid start, last two games at least.

Now we have to hope for a clean bill of health from the d@mned internationals.

Made up for Sturridge getting a goal.
 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Gurdeep on August 28, 2017, 08:35:25 PM
Great performance from the TEAM.  But, I'm not gonna carried away as Arsenal we're extremely poor on the day.  The bench mark for me will be beating those teams in the mid to bottom half of the table.   Something which we have struggled to do successfully for gawd knows how long. 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 28, 2017, 10:28:02 PM
Great performance from the TEAM.  But, I'm not gonna carried away as Arsenal we're extremely poor on the day.  The bench mark for me will be beating those teams in the mid to bottom half of the table.   Something which we have struggled to do successfully for gawd knows how long.

Exactly. Citeh up next, but that's not the worry. Burnley, Leicester, WBA, Stoke etc away, oh, and Bournemouth (they score against for fun) are the concerns. Teams that will defend deep in numbers, and look to work crossing positions or nick corners and utilise them to score against us.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on August 28, 2017, 10:48:18 PM
City up next after the international break. I just hope all the hype after yesterday's result doesn't take the edge of the players.   
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 03, 2017, 10:48:31 AM
It will be interesting to see what Coutinho does after Tuesday. Brazil have a world cup qualifier away to Colombia, so let's see if he flies back with Firmino and co (players from Chelsea etc, all on a flight chartered by PL clubs with Brazilian players), or whether he 'does a Costa' and flies to and stays in Brazil.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 09, 2017, 04:05:35 PM
4-0

0-5

it's a feast or a famine.

the highs and lows of watching an unbalanced team.

game utterly changed after sending off.

great shame - I thought we were bossing City - despite them getting a goal ahead.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 09, 2017, 07:46:02 PM
But when you're a team who's only strength is attacking, when you give away the easiest of goals (that most teams would put down to a singular 'bad day at the office') on a regular basis, at worse than once every other game, then you have nothing to come back with.

When it's your best attacker, your trump card, that's lost, then it's simply a case of how many you'll get outscored by.

We can't close a game out at two up. Three goals aren't necessarily enough for three points.

We can't defend at the best of times. Our modus operandus is to outscore the opposition, so when you lose your ace then the climb becomes vertical. If we could have held on for 1-0, it could have been seen as almost a victory of sorts, but they all saw the writing on the wall in huge neon flashing letters as soon as Mane was dismissed, threw up their hands and gave up on the spot.

I know Klopp wanted Van Dijk as first choice, and I think the degree of the desire led us to overplay our hand and get carried away in his pursuit.

I know clubs say "he's not for sale" and then later go back on their word, but surely there was a case for believing Southampton may be as determined to keep their best player as we were to keep ours, and therefore having recognised that as a possibility, which it always was until we see Van Dijk posing with a Liverpool scarf above his head on the Anfield turf, then we had to have an alternative.

The alternative didn't need to be someone like Van Dijk, or as good as Van Dijk etc, etc, in fact the alternative had nothing to do with Van Dijk. Our whole aim in getting Van Dijk was to improve the defence, not just to sign Van Dijk as an act in itself. Therefore, an alternative, not necessarily even the alternative, was to sign a player better than Klavan, or even better, Lovren.
Surely, there are/were central defenders better than Klavan available, and I'm sure better than Lovren too.

So whilst we didn't improve our defence with Van Dijk, we improved our defence none the less.

Blindness is a terrible thing, especially when it's not biologically caused.   
 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 09, 2017, 10:02:54 PM
but is Van Dijk, or any other defender, the solution.

to me, the issue looks structural - not one primarily due to personnel.

if one exposes our defenders and keeper to top class opponents, one will always concede goals.

we play heavy metal football, always on the front foot.  I'd hate to be a defender in our team. 

I want balance - call me old fashioned.   I don't want us to be sent out, with the sole tactic to OUTSCORE the opposition.

As you say - even at 2 or 3 nil up, we cannot close out a game.

And today - just because we lose a player, why do we have to get slaughtered, with City scoring a further 4 goals?   Does our boss not have tactics to protect the defence, when we are down to ten men.




Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 09, 2017, 11:12:46 PM
but is Van Dijk, or any other defender, the solution.

to me, the issue looks structural - not one primarily due to personnel.

if one exposes our defenders and keeper to top class opponents, one will always concede goals.

we play heavy metal football, always on the front foot.  I'd hate to be a defender in our team. 

I want balance - call me old fashioned.   I don't want us to be sent out, with the sole tactic to OUTSCORE the opposition.

As you say - even at 2 or 3 nil up, we cannot close out a game.

And today - just because we lose a player, why do we have to get slaughtered, with City scoring a further 4 goals?   Does our boss not have tactics to protect the defence, when we are down to ten men.

I totally agree Dude, which makes the whole idea of Virgil Van Dijk being the only solution Klopp could come up with during the Summer, even more frustrating.

I don't think Klopp has a plan for the defensive side of the game, period. Whether we've got 11, or 10, whether we're three up, or one down, or whatever.

Teams walk straight through our midfield, or take up unchallenged or unmarked positions in our penalty area at will.

He's talked about reducing the number of crosses we allow teams to put in etc, but if both full backs go marauding forward at the same time, we're left with no cover in behind. You can't expect centre halves to keep coming out of the middle and trying to cover, and if full backs are to be used like that, then you need two sitters in midfield, so that one one can come across and cover the flank should an early ball be played into the chasm of space left.
Likewise, you can't play an extra high line if your centre halves lack recovery pace.

Even if all the above is sorted, teams will get a free kick out wide, or a corner and you have to be able to defend them, to do what is 'bread and butter' defending.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 10, 2017, 11:14:26 AM
One thing that was laid bare yesterday was our complete lack of leadership anywhere on the field.

There was a huge delay for the goalkeeper's treatment, and that was the time leadership needed to come to the fore, to get us through to halftime, and then again during the second half.

Senior players like Henderson and Wijnaldum were totally invisible. Can failed to live up to his own super elevated opinion of himself once again.

Trent got no help or support the entire game. Klavan is or has been the captain of his country. Matip is 26 and vastly experienced.

It was truly pitiful.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 11, 2017, 04:45:08 AM
Klopp's talked about reducing the number of crosses we allow teams to put in etc, but if both full backs go marauding forward at the same time, we're left with no cover in behind. You can't expect centre halves to keep coming out of the middle and trying to cover, and if full backs are to be used like that, then you need two sitters in midfield, so that one one can come across and cover the flank should an early ball be played into the chasm of space left.
Likewise, you can't play an extra high line if your centre halves lack recovery pace.

Even if all the above is sorted, teams will get a free kick out wide, or a corner and you have to be able to defend them, to do what is 'bread and butter' defending.

absolutely.

I saw Klopp saying since the defeat, that his team in training practices 7 defenders against 14 attackers....and often don't concede any goals.

But I just don't see any evidence of this during games.

As you mention above, if we have two marauding wing-backs, then this totally contradicts his stated wish to have less crosses come in from our opponents.

What he says and what he does, do not match up.

Overall, there is no Plan B.  It's attack, attack, attack.  Or in one word - OUTSCORE.   

It's great to watch when we are dominating games - but it is seat of the pants stuff, even at the best of times.

I'm old fashioned perhaps.  But I think balance is key.  It's a crying shame that Rafa is not around.....especially with all the resources that the club now has (compared to when he was with us).

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 11, 2017, 11:25:35 AM
a correlation?

Alex Chamberlain loses his last two games 0-4 and 0-5.

a common denominator, perhaps.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 11, 2017, 11:29:10 AM
and come to think of it, he was awful in the international in between these two league games.


Thierry Henry said something quite telling after the transfer:

“You have to bring something on the table. I have been watching him (the OX) for a very long time and I still don’t know what he’s good at."
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 11, 2017, 11:43:33 AM
absolutely.

I saw Klopp saying since the defeat, that his team in training practices 7 defenders against 14 attackers....and often don't concede any goals.

But I just don't see any evidence of this during games.

As you mention above, if we have two marauding wing-backs, then this totally contradicts his stated wish to have less crosses come in from our opponents.

What he says and what he does, do not match up.

Overall, there is no Plan B.  It's attack, attack, attack.  Or in one word - OUTSCORE.   

It's great to watch when we are dominating games - but it is seat of the pants stuff, even at the best of times.

I'm old fashioned perhaps.  But I think balance is key.  It's a crying shame that Rafa is not around.....especially with all the resources that the club now has (compared to when he was with us).

Dude, there's nothing old fashioned about balance within football. There are two basic stated aims, or possibly one, just phrased differently - score more than your opponent and concede fewer (apart from a nil-nil, obviously). Simply put, you have to be able to defend well as well as attack well, and you have to balance both out, so both exist side by side, and not have one being to the detriment of the other.

This should be 'Granny sucking eggs' stuff to any coach.

You can't just rely on everything clicking with the attack every single game. There are sensibly too many variables that can go wrong, or not in your favour for that to happen.

You have to be able to grind out or hang on for a result sometimes. When the goalkeeper's having a world class day, when the woodwork appears to keep moving, when individual defenders and collective defences are just having one of those incredible, well above par days, or even luck plays a part sometimes.

We don't look like we do any sort of defensive work within training. We look clueless as to how to do even the basics. It looks as though the last time any of our defenders, and even midfielders, did any sort of defensive routines in training, was when they were all with their individual previous clubs and it was done within the individual requirement of those clubs' own needs and requirements.
There looks nothing 'collective' at all about any aspect of the defensive side of the game.

The last time we as a team looked like we had been drilled and organised was the half season Dalglish was in caretaker charge and trying to earn a permanent position, when he had Steve Clarke alongside him.

Since then, from when Dalglish was actually appointed as  the 'permanent' manager, we've been hopeless, just hopeless.

Everyone can see it. The number of people, 'journalists', ex pros, ex Liverpool players and fans, can't all be wrong, but when you listened to Rodgers, and now to Klopp, they talk in terms of each time being a sort of blip, having extenuating circumstances to explain it, as opposed to being part of a pattern, a body of evidence that clearly indicates a underlying and constant problem.

The only thing balanced at the moment is our goal difference - the attack has been as good as the defence has been bad, or vice versa.

The problem is I don't see any way it will change until Klopp's prepared to accept a problem exists - it's just going to remain an ongoing massive frustration for us.   
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 11, 2017, 12:07:31 PM
and come to think of it, he was awful in the international in between these two league games.


Thierry Henry said something quite telling after the transfer:

“You have to bring something on the table. I have been watching him (the OX) for a very long time and I still don’t know what he’s good at."

When we were linked I was hoping it was just 'media talk'. As a squad player I could have possibly felt OK, if it was a £10-£15M fee, but even then there would have been better use for that sum of money. Walcott's another. Big reputation or hype when young, but just hasn't developed or pushed on. Maybe whatever was the cause of the hype was actually the sum of their development and they did it all at an early age, but it was only enough to show 'promise' within the context of them being a young player.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 11, 2017, 01:45:40 PM
From: http://www.empireofthekop.com/2017/09/11/klopp-explains-his-angry-dressing-room-rant-v-man-city/ (http://www.empireofthekop.com/2017/09/11/klopp-explains-his-angry-dressing-room-rant-v-man-city/)


“We had then these clear moments and then it’s one goal [conceded], forget it, it can happen, but the red card gave them [the advantage].


Writing off concession of a goal, any goal, as "forget it, it can happen" makes no sense to me. You have to ask why?. Could we have avoided it? What should we have done differently? Can we learn from it and avoid it in future, but "forget it, it can happen", as though it's unavoidable, is just flat out wrong.   
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 13, 2017, 07:03:43 PM
Jurgen Klopp must address defensive inconsistency at Liverpool - Steven Gerrard

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/644663/Steven-Gerrard-Jurgen-Klopp-Liverpool-vs-Sevilla (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/644663/Steven-Gerrard-Jurgen-Klopp-Liverpool-vs-Sevilla)

"“There’s been a bit of inconsistency,” he said on BT Sport.


Ha. A bit of inconsistency.  He's either forgotten what it was like to play in a team than can defend, and hence what defending should look like, or he's truly a 'company man'.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 13, 2017, 10:09:15 PM
it illustrates the big problem that I have with ex-players acting as pundits - and not genuine journalists.

Gerrard is employed by a  club - and thus how can he be a genuine TV pundit.

one cannot serve two masters.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 16, 2017, 06:05:35 PM
Liverpool 1 Burnley 1

like watching a cat play with a lizard.

often one too many touches, lots of possession, often the build-up too slow and deliberate.....meanwhile Burnley without much effort, caused mayhem when they got near our goal....and had a handful of clear cut chances.

dire defending for their goal....klavin ball watched, leaving a man behind him to score.

same old, same old.

zero balance - and nobody on the bench gives a rat's a.r.se.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 18, 2017, 12:00:22 PM
dire defending for their goal....klavin ball watched, leaving a man behind him to score.

same old, same old.


Trent gets beaten in the air with the long ball, though he did seem to mis-judge the flight somewhat and get himself under the ball, rather than maybe take a step or two back and then be able  to 'attack' the ball properly.

Klavan, seeing that Matip was challenging Wood for the second needs to drop off his partner to deal with the ball should Matip not win the header, and in any case, should have been aware of Arfield and picked him up or been ready to, depending on the outcome of the Matip/Wood header.
Robertson should have also got back in there and covered his centre half (Klavan), when Klavan got drawn to the ball, and would have been there to pick up Arfield, who Klavan had left.

With all the chopping and changing of the back four and goalkeeper, there's no understandings or consistency of working together, but neither are individual players reacting to, or reacting correctly to 'moments' in the game as moves develop. The three parts of the Burnley goal highlight it perfectly.

Then what was Can doing back near his own goal line, 'challenging' Klavan for a ball, when there's no Burnley player near, and then from the resulting corner, Mee isn't picked up at the far post, and again, seconds later, the exact same mistake is made again.

They seem unable to know what to do in the first instance and then are unable to understand what was done wrong, learn from it and correct it.

Amateur Youth team players on a Saturday and Sunday are more clued up about the 'nuts and bolts' of defending.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 19, 2017, 11:46:29 PM
Thankfully the FA Cup 3rd round isn't until January, so our season can't quite be over by Christmas.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2017, 02:46:37 PM
Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp facing potential defensive injury problems with Dejan Lovren and Joel Matip doubtful

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-news-injury-lovren-matip-emre-can-leicester-jurgen-klopp-a7959376.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-news-injury-lovren-matip-emre-can-leicester-jurgen-klopp-a7959376.html)

So considering how many games they missed between them last season, and despite that Klopp felt no need to add to the ranks, and even let Sakho and Lucas go, so I guess for him, this is no reason to worry.

As for the rest of us mere mortals..........................

And then for Tuesday, just when you thought it couldn't get any worse:

"If both Matip and Lovren miss Saturday's match, Klopp will hope at least one can return before his side's Champions League group game against Spartak Moscow on Tuesday.

One of the pair's potential stand-ins, Gomez, is suspended for Liverpool's next European game following his sending-off against Sevilla.
"

James Milner better get some practice in and convert from left back to centre half.

Car Crash F.C
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 21, 2017, 11:09:01 PM
no balance

no new defensive players bought in the summer

no effort to fix clear ongoing defensive issues

and making 7 and 8 changes to our line-up each game, thus no building of understanding

what could possibly go wrong?   :( ??? :-X :-\
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 22, 2017, 01:59:21 PM
no balance

no new defensive players bought in the summer

no effort to fix clear ongoing defensive issues

and making 7 and 8 changes to our line-up each game, thus no building of understanding

what could possibly go wrong?   :( ??? :-X :-\

Professional players shouldn't switch off from a throw in, but to lessen the chance, then it needs drilling in with regular practice.

Everything is disjointed.

Surely if we're to play such an attacking style then the most important aspect is that the defenders can defend, first and foremost. Surely a centre half can make a 10 yard pass, rather than being able to bring the ball out, beat a man or two and then lay it off.

If we're going to utilise full backs as wide attackers, then it has to be one at a time, not both racing forward, and a defensive midfielder (at least one) to sit and protect whatever's left of the back four when possession is lost.

Harry Maguire (coincidentally now at Leicester) from Hull or Michael Keane (who went to Everton from Burnley) would both have been worthy acquisitions. Both 'proper' defenders.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 24, 2017, 09:05:54 AM
Good to get back to winning ways, but we are just far too open, at all times.

Surprisingly (or not) there's so little being mention about the very obvious foul on Mignolet for their first goal, which somehow wasn't seen or given, and then contrast that with the penalty, where Mignolet connects with the ball first, and Vardy just continues with his run in a straight line, through Mignolet's follow up and down he goes.

Mignolet was unlucky with Vardy's goal, that his save landed on Vardy's head, but why was a player of Vardy's quality, left unmarked to head in? Mignolet got no protection yet again from his defenders.

Can yet again nearly gave away a goal with a sloppy, misplaced pass, and he needs to bust a gut more to get himself back into a defensive position when play breaks down. You see no real effort from him to get back.

Well done to Coutinho, who seems to have put his 'disappointment' behind him, but for Fowler's sake, get another agent. He's too good a person to be corrupted by his snakes of agents.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 24, 2017, 09:31:34 PM
Surprisingly (or not) there's so little being mention about the very obvious foul on Mignolet for their first goal, which somehow wasn't seen or given, and then contrast that with the penalty, where Mignolet connects with the ball first, and Vardy just continues with his run in a straight line, through Mignolet's follow up and down he goes.

Mignolet was unlucky with Vardy's goal, that his save landed on Vardy's head, but why was a player of Vardy's quality, left unmarked to head in? Mignolet got no protection yet again from his defenders.

Can yet again nearly gave away a goal with a sloppy, misplaced pass, and he needs to bust a gut more to get himself back into a defensive position when play breaks down. You see no real effort from him to get back.

I am no fan of Can either.  He looks far too lazy most of the time - and - energy-wise - he looks more like a lad in his late 20s, not one in his early 20s. 

Depresses me how poor refs are.  I thought the ref had a nightmare yesterday.  At the start - they just brutishly stopped our break down the right.  Should have been a clear booking....nothing.  Then 5 minutes later they did the exact same thing down our near side (left).  Again, no booking.

As they have done previously, Leicester employed all the dark arts......do refs not watch Match of the Day in recent years?   Vardy fooled the ref into thinking Matip fowled him before half time....for a move that ultimately led to their first goal.  Vardy is going nowhere and is second to the ball - so he runs across the stride of our player and goes down.  Are refs thick?

And that subsequent foul on our keeper for that first goal.  Neither ref nor linesman could see the clear foul?  By the way - we really need Hendo and our lads to start shouting and giving off a lot more often.  We are far too nice. 

And for their second - I thought it was going to be a freekick to us.  Our keeper touches the ball - and their lad makes contact.  I think if the keeper goes through to clear the ball he will do serious damage to Vardy.  Thus he did well to pull out.  But Vardy goes down.

Refs really need to get up to speed. 

Overall, we won.  But I take little heart from it.  This type of unbalanced football has no future.  I imagine a lot of people in the industry are scratching their heads.




 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 25, 2017, 11:01:59 AM
Our keeper touches the ball - and their lad makes contact.  I think if the keeper goes through to clear the ball he will do serious damage to Vardy.  Thus he did well to pull out.  But Vardy goes down.

Refs really need to get up to speed. 


This is what I don't get either. Mignolet goes to kick the ball, makes full contact, and then the 'momentum' of a swing of the leg, which is required to kick a football, means he catches an opponent. Isn't it obvious that can and will happen many times on the pitch over 90 minutes. It's part of football being a contact sport.

Likewise with Vardy. He doesn't make any contact with the ball, yet runs into our player, whether it's just the leg on Mignolet's follow through, or another part of his body, thereby, surely that in itself is a foul. If you 'play the man' and not the ball, then that's a foul.
It's the same as when a forward leaves a leg out to make contact with the defender's leg, and then goes over, that's not a foul, or at least it shouldn't be, because at the moment the defender makes his leg movement, the attacker's leg wasn't there to be caught.

I don't know whether Mignolet pulled out (or at least was half hearted) through fear of damage to himself or Vardy, but if he'd have made full contact with the ball, the momentum of the kick would have still seen him make contact with Vardy, likewise if Vardy had have touched (as Mignolet did) the ball, he would have still then made contact with Mignolet. Would that have been a foul on Mignolet? Highly doubtful. In fact, that would have probably also been a penalty as Vardy (not Mignolet) would have touched the ball, and then made contact with Mignolet, and most probably have gone down, and Mignolet would have been punished 'for being there for Vardy to make contact with, and would have been regarded as stopping Vardy's progress'.

How many of these situations do we see outside the penalty area during the course of 90 minutes, and how few get awarded as a foul against the player who actually touched the ball?

Just like goalkeepers should do their homework on penalty takers, referees should also be aware of players, like Vardy, who 'buy' fouls or create a situation where they 'technically' get fouled.

As it's all supposedly about intent, then surely the intent 'to get fouled' should be regarded and considered just as wrong as the intent 'to foul', and if there is no intent to 'get fouled', then the lack of intent 'to foul', should be weighted equally too.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 25, 2017, 03:39:06 PM
This quote made me laugh from Joey Barton, when responding to Klopp talking about being able to write a book on defending:

"they’ve got a Champions League attack…but they’ve got a Championship defence."
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 25, 2017, 10:39:26 PM
How many of these situations do we see outside the penalty area during the course of 90 minutes, and how few get awarded as a foul against the player who actually touched the ball?

Just like goalkeepers should do their homework on penalty takers, referees should also be aware of players, like Vardy, who 'buy' fouls or create a situation where they 'technically' get fouled.

As it's all supposedly about intent, then surely the intent 'to get fouled' should be regarded and considered just as wrong as the intent 'to foul', and if there is no intent to 'get fouled', then the lack of intent 'to foul', should be weighted equally too.

absolutely.

refs need to be far more intelligent and clued in.

the same dark arts are being deployed by the same dark artists.....and refs are to blame for that.

do they not watch football highlights on TV - and see what certain players are up to? 

As you say, the intent to be fouled, and fool refs, should be identified.......and punished.

If refs are not up to the job on match day, then start bringing in retrospective punishment for the usual players.  Indeed, if i was at the FA, I would start asking specific refs about their performances.
 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on September 25, 2017, 10:42:49 PM
This quote made me laugh from Joey Barton, when responding to Klopp talking about being able to write a book on defending:

"they’ve got a Champions League attack…but they’ve got a Championship defence."

 ::)

it must be embarrassing for Klopp and his coaching team......to be laughed at and ridiculed.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on September 28, 2017, 05:34:37 PM
Carlo Ancelotti sacked by Bayern Munich, with Jurgen Klopp among leading candidates to replace him

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/09/28/carlo-ancelotti-sacked-bayern-munich-jurgen-klopp-among-leading/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/09/28/carlo-ancelotti-sacked-bayern-munich-jurgen-klopp-among-leading/)

Surely not. Klopp off to Bavaria whilst Ancelotti arrives in L4?  ;D

Apparently, Rafa's been seen in a Geordie newsagent shop asking if they've got a copy of the Daily Post or Echo, meanwhile Pako Ayestaran has handed in his notice to Las Palmas stating he 'made a mistake' taking the new manager's job.  ;D

The plot it does a thicken.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Edward224 on September 30, 2017, 11:47:10 AM
Hey all,

Very frustrating stuff so far.

At the current rate we'll be conceding around 65-70 goals this season. We're too leaky at the back and not clinical enough up front and we have no midfielder with a defensive first mentality.

Tough game tomorrow but we should win and I hope Ox starts and Can is dropped.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 01, 2017, 10:33:35 AM
Hey all,

Very frustrating stuff so far.

At the current rate we'll be conceding around 65-70 goals this season. We're too leaky at the back and not clinical enough up front and we have no midfielder with a defensive first mentality.

Tough game tomorrow but we should win and I hope Ox starts and Can is dropped.

'Ay up stranger'.  ;D

Totally agree. Frustrating is definitely the single word sum up.

Can has relapsed into what he's been most of his Liverpool career. He plays with an air of 'nothing to prove', yet every player should always be looking to prove they deserve to be picked for the next match.

Is Klopp capable of coaching the defensive side of the game, and if so, can he actually do what is required to turn it around?

Or is he like Rodgers in being wedded to an ideal way of player, that he is always striving to achieve, without the pragmatism that is sometimes required?

I know people say Mourinho is a defensive coach, but their goal difference hardly shows they win games 1-0.

Is it so bad to score a goal or two here and there during some parts of a match, and then in others, defend well and stop the opposition scoring, even if it means you let the opposition have position for periods. I'd say that was the ultimate control of the game. Score during periods of possession, hence breaking the opposition's attempts to keep you out, and then keep the opposition at arm's length when they have possession.   
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 01, 2017, 11:19:38 AM
Moreno admits lack of concentration is costing Liverpool

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at a headline like that. That Moreno can see it.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/moreno-admits-lack-of-concentration-is-costing-liverpool/1k7y80nbbbpp71sxl9dybuyb4j (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/moreno-admits-lack-of-concentration-is-costing-liverpool/1k7y80nbbbpp71sxl9dybuyb4j)

These days a lot of football is based on attack-minded full-backs, but my instinct is first and foremost to defend.

 ;D or  :'(
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 02, 2017, 03:58:32 PM
Is Klopp capable of coaching the defensive side of the game, and if so, can he actually do what is required to turn it around?

Or is he like Rodgers in being wedded to an ideal way of player, that he is always striving to achieve, without the pragmatism that is sometimes required?

embarrassing times for Klopp.

he is being badly shown up for the limited coach that he is.

he's had so long to strengthen our defence - but has not done so,.

he has nlo interest in a balanced side.....it;s attack attack attack.

his tactic is simple - OUTSCORE

there is no future to this madness.  There can never be progress under such a nutty 'strategy'
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2017, 04:03:28 PM
Sturridge either needs to be played or sold. Anywhere in between is pointless.

If he played regularly, surely we can afford to let him off chasing and pressing all over the place, just close down the nearest defender if he receives the ball.

If played regularly, alongside Salah, Mane and Coutinho, surely he'll regain his rhythm and touch and his finishing will come back.

Yes, there's a system Klopp plays, but if you want players to perform to their best, then you have to play to their strengths.

We could easily incorporate him.

1. In Klopp's 4-3-3 - with Salah and Mane either side and Coutinho behind.
2. 4-4-1-1 - with Firmino playing off, then 2 from Salah, Mane, Coutinho in the 'wide' positions. If Coutinho plays on the left, cutting in, he has either Moreno (yes, I know) or Robertson going 'outside'. Some rotation keeps Salah, Mane and Coutinho fresh, and it gives us two in central midfielders to make up for the left back being forward on the overlap more often to provide width, and Firmino soon drops into a more midfield role as soon as possession is lost.
3. 4-2-3-1 Sturridge can bring others into play, have Coutinho or Firmino, whoever plays in the centre of the '3' even going on beyond, or drop in centrally as Sturridge pulls out into an 'inside forward' position as he sometimes does.

Or, all of 1,2,3 can also be used to show how maybe he doesn't fit in, with the players we've got, in particular, Coutinho and Firmino, and to a lesser degree, Salah and Mane, and therefore sell him, and bring in someone (I don't know who) better suited to playing in combination with those four.   
 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2017, 04:22:33 PM
embarrassing times for Klopp.

he is being badly shown up for the limited coach that he is.

he's had so long to strengthen our defence - but has not done so,.

he has nlo interest in a balanced side.....it;s attack attack attack.

his tactic is simple - OUTSCORE

there is no future to this madness.  There can never be progress under such a nutty 'strategy'

I don't get how a straight pass through the middle causes so much trouble. As a centre half pairing, playing against 1 forward, you have a 'man marker' (Lovren), and a free man (Matip) to cover in behind his partner when Lovren fails to win the ball/cut out the pass to the player he's marking. That combination of roles suits the individual players.
I think one of the problems is that they're tempted to be less compact as a pair, leaving greater distance between each other, as they've got half an eye on having to be prepared to go out to wider positions (which centre halves generally hate) due to the fact that both their full backs are so high up the pitch, and there's no proper cover for the space (or acreage) behind the full back from a midfielder coming across.

It feels like Klopp has a philosophy which he may be able to explain in theory, but that doesn't seem to translate into a workable reality on the pitch.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2017, 04:35:38 PM
Liverpool ready to put things right in Manchester United test - Mignolet

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/liverpool/story/3219246/liverpool-ready-to-put-things-right-in-manchester-united-test-simon-mignolet (http://www.espn.co.uk/football/liverpool/story/3219246/liverpool-ready-to-put-things-right-in-manchester-united-test-simon-mignolet)

Can't our players just shut up, and do their talking through the team's performance(s).
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2017, 04:46:53 PM
The knives a really out for Klopp:

Liverpool must sack Jurgen Klopp and hire Carlo Ancelotti while they can

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/649229/Liverpool-News-Jurgen-Klopp-sacked-Carlo-Ancelotti-Anfield-Premier-League-Latest (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/649229/Liverpool-News-Jurgen-Klopp-sacked-Carlo-Ancelotti-Anfield-Premier-League-Latest)

And to a lesser extent:

Liverpool's stasis runs deep - it's vital Jurgen Klopp uses the international break to remedy this

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-latest-analysis-jurgen-klopp-problems-run-deep-international-break-a7978866.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-latest-analysis-jurgen-klopp-problems-run-deep-international-break-a7978866.html)

The Liverpool virus, gegenpressing disappears and is Klopp losing it?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-virus-gegenpressing-disappears-klopp-13706409 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-virus-gegenpressing-disappears-klopp-13706409)
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2017, 06:28:58 PM
I don't get how a straight pass through the middle causes so much trouble. As a centre half pairing, playing against 1 forward, you have a 'man marker' (Lovren), and a free man (Matip) to cover in behind his partner when Lovren fails to win the ball/cut out the pass to the player he's marking. That combination of roles suits the individual players.
I think one of the problems is that they're tempted to be less compact as a pair, leaving greater distance between each other, as they've got half an eye on having to be prepared to go out to wider positions (which centre halves generally hate) due to the fact that both their full backs are so high up the pitch, and there's no proper cover for the space (or acreage) behind the full back from a midfielder coming across.

It feels like Klopp has a philosophy which he may be able to explain in theory, but that doesn't seem to translate into a workable reality on the pitch.

because we are playing so far up the pitch.....there is no room for error....and one simple ball can leave our defence in ruins.

our problems are not primarily personnel based....they are structural.

Klopp's whole approach to football is flawed.

The key to football is balance.  Klopp, like Keegan, clearly doesn't see it like that.  Our midfielders are running around like headless chickens, trying to always push forward.  Klopp clearly thinks our issues are all about too big a gap between the lines....thus he wants our defenders to push forward, getting closer to Hendo and co.  It's madness.  It;s no wonder opponents can suck us in and break with one through ball.

On a different topic - I think Klopp is in danger of losing some of his players.  The tirade and anger by Klopp aimed from the touchline at Hendo does not augur well for the future.   I would be livid as a player giving my all, to be shouted at by Klopp, in these circumstances, who doesn't know how to fix problems.   I saw similar last season with Klopp at Milner.

On another topic, I think we will play a lot better when Lalalama is back.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Edward224 on October 08, 2017, 05:47:22 PM
Klopp's Dortmund team was one of the most balanced teams around, so it isn't like he is a keegan like manager who just attacks, but he has seriously underestimated the ability of his defensive players.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 08, 2017, 07:18:37 PM
Klopp's Dortmund team was one of the most balanced teams around, so it isn't like he is a keegan like manager who just attacks, but he has seriously underestimated the ability of his defensive players.

He certainly seems to have too much faith in them and appears to have overrated their ability. Thinking that only Van Dijk was needed, and Sakho was surplus, even though that would have left Matip, Lovren and Klavan alongside Van Dijk, clearly demonstrates it.

On current form, we appear to need at least three new centre halves, but even they are going to struggle if there's no protection from midfield, and both full backs are playing like wingers.

I don't like this idea of his that the two centre halves need only to defend the type of pass Shelvey made by stepping up. Catching a single forward offside also relies on the linesman and/or referee spotting the offside.
I'd rather we defended by being 100% responsible ourselves, rather than relying on officials to get their part right too.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 14, 2017, 05:47:07 PM
it's like watching a toothless lion trying to maul a donkey every weekend.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 15, 2017, 12:51:09 PM
"The question for Klopp at Liverpool was always going to be whether his hyperactive approach could be as effective in the Premier League in which everybody plays at a high tempo. Even towards the end in Germany, there was a suspicion that with other teams also pressing hard and high, Dortmund were diminished. It was no longer sufficient to run further or faster than other sides in the league. In addition, as teams become more used to counteracting gegenpressing, as their players become more inclined to hit long balls over the press, the tactic loses its power to shock. Klopp’s approach is no longer unique; it’s not even unusual.

Familiarity is one issue; fatigue, or rather efforts to stave it off, is another. Last season Liverpool’s form collapsed in January. This season, with the Champions League to worry about as well, the sense is that Liverpool have eased back. They are no longer pressing with the same ferocity. In Klopp’s first two seasons at Anfield, the average length of each spell of possession enjoyed by an opponent was 5.9 seconds. This season that is up to 6.5, which is lower than the league average but far from exceptional. Distance run and high-intensity sprint stats have dropped.
David de Gea’s block saves a point but cautious United miss their chance

That, presumably, is part of a conscious plan – the fear for Liverpool is that it is a result of players losing faith in Klopp and not pushing themselves to their physical limits as a result – and given what happened in the second half of last season it makes sense. The problem is that by not engaging opponents high up the pitch, Liverpool are having to do more traditional defending in their own final third, and they’re not very good at that."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/oct/15/jurgen-klopp-tactics-liverpool-manchester-united (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/oct/15/jurgen-klopp-tactics-liverpool-manchester-united)
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 15, 2017, 12:52:30 PM
Jonathan Wilson's article above is well worth a read.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 16, 2017, 12:03:54 PM
Jonathan Wilson's article above is well worth a read.

It's very interesting. If Plan B is to ease off an aspect of Plan A, but without being able to also make up for any problem that may bring, then it's a real problem.

It was interesting watching City carve open Stoke (though Stoke players look to have given up the ghost from the off), how simple the method was of getting the ball out wide, then passing it into the box to a player who was there to finish it off. They weren't crosses, as they were too accurately directed into the path and feet of an individual player. Those curved passes from a slightly deeper position are a nightmare for defenders turning a facing their own goal, but it was also the movement of the City players that allowed the passer to pick out the player. Players weren't stood, with an opponent between them and the man with the ball, and expecting to still receive it. Movement was the key.

I've said before, when we come up against teams that defend deep in numbers, we have to match their effort in closing down, tracking and blocking, with our own effort in players without the ball constantly moving and working equally hard to find space for quick passes to be played to, and they be equally quick in laying off the ball. Playing one touch, keeping the ball constantly moving, with players constantly moving, can allow us to make it difficult for numbers to maintain structured discipline when defending.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 16, 2017, 12:07:15 PM
It was a more disciplined performance against the Mancs, with one eye on keeping the back door shut, but relying on pace alone will never be enough. It's fine if there's space in behind to head for, but when that space is not there because of a deep defensive line, we need pace in another way - quick movement of the ball, and players around it.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 17, 2017, 11:54:35 PM
After Henderson's recent performances, and Wijnaldum going missing on away days, surely Milner must keep his place in the team somewhere in midfield.

Whether Can can be disciplined enough to allow Milner and Oxlade-Chamberlain to be in the same team, I don't know, or maybe that's potentially too attacking, but it would be nice to see both those players keep their places if possible, as none of Can, Henderson or Wijnaldum have exactly pulled up many trees lately.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 21, 2017, 10:38:18 PM
It was interesting watching City carve open Stoke (though Stoke players look to have given up the ghost from the off), how simple the method was of getting the ball out wide, then passing it into the box to a player who was there to finish it off. They weren't crosses, as they were too accurately directed into the path and feet of an individual player. Those curved passes from a slightly deeper position are a nightmare for defenders turning a facing their own goal

agreed.

John Aldridge this week echoed my own views on the issue.  We knock loads of crosses into the box and for what purpose.  We don't have an out and out striker (like a Shearer) who is going to get his head on the end of them.  I often say that refs should stop awarding us corners - because they always amount to nothing. 

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 21, 2017, 10:42:11 PM
After Henderson's recent performances, and Wijnaldum going missing on away days, surely Milner must keep his place in the team somewhere in midfield.

Whether Can can be disciplined enough to allow Milner and Oxlade-Chamberlain to be in the same team, I don't know, or maybe that's potentially too attacking, but it would be nice to see both those players keep their places if possible, as none of Can, Henderson or Wijnaldum have exactly pulled up many trees lately.

I like Hendo.  But the jigsaw worked with Milner in the middle.  I am a big fan of Milner. 

Maybe Klopp has accidentally happened upon a formula that works now.  We will see in the games to come.

I dislike having to wait to Sunday, to see our weekly game. 

United came up short today.  United mate was telling me on Friday that he doesn't rate United's defence.  I see why today.   Maybe we missed out on the extra two points last weekend against them!
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2017, 04:14:17 PM
spurs two up after 12 minutes

lovren having a nightmare

indeed, they had a goal disallowed after a couple of minutes - again lovren caught out.

klopp has zero idea about setting up a defence or a balanced side.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2017, 04:15:11 PM
sub lovren.

wish we could sub Klopp too.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2017, 04:18:45 PM
16 mins......spurs hit the underside of the bar.

spurs are giving klopp a masterclass on how to counter attack.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2017, 04:55:22 PM
half time

3-1 down......another error from our defence.

klopp's team seemingly has to score 4 or 5 to be sure of winning any game.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2017, 05:52:32 PM
Juventus are welcome to Can.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2017, 05:58:33 PM
Rafa come back please.

Keegan on steroids, needs replacing.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2017, 07:14:09 PM
this madness cannot go on.

we are probably breaking all premiership records regarding highs and lows

we are hammered for 5 by city...we beat maribo by 7.....spurs put 4 past us

this is madness.

we need a manager who knows what he is doing.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 22, 2017, 10:44:25 PM
Probably the worse collection of defensive mistakes strung together all in the same game, by any collection of players that has worn the Liverpool shirt, certainly in my memory.

Just when you think it can't get any more embarrassing, they stoop lower yet.

Either Klopp doesn't know how to change it, or he's unable to even begin to get it across to his players, if he does.

Ward now deserves a run in the team. 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2017, 12:50:48 PM
It's amazing and depressing all rolled up together. Instead of examining what Lovren did wrong, and how it should and could have been done better, all the media stories are about what he's done with his instagram account.

Really. WHO CARES, really.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2017, 01:29:18 PM
Spurs are capable, at the present time, of giving anyone a hiding.

So we have to take our hats off to them for their performance.

And Lovren does not deserve to be hung out to dry....nor Matip, nor Mignolet.   

In the modern era, with the quick communication possibilities of social media, there seems to be witch-hunt inflation.  As someone said this weekend, thank goodness there wasn't social media around 100 plus years ago in Alabama, and the southern states (otherwise there would have been a lot more lynchings).  I can empathise with the lad - and him taking down his instagram stuff.  It must be so frustrating - unable to defend yourself in the media, against all the abuse.  All he is left with, having no bullets to fire, is defensive mode, circling the wagons.

For all we know, Lovren was told to get in front of Kane....to get to the ball before it arrived at his feet. 

The bloke who has been the ringmaster of this ongoing circus, is Mr Klopp.

Every pundit seems to blame it all on personnel - and that us missing out on Van Dykt in the summer, has apparently led to this madness.  Rubbish.  The issue is structural.  The issue is one of team balance. 

Any pundit worth his salt would be asking where is the protection for our defence.  Where is the sweeper.  Mr Klopp needs to answer those questions.


Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2017, 01:40:41 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/bernardo-silva-find-out-monday-11390023 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/bernardo-silva-find-out-monday-11390023)

Burnley boss Sean Dyche was sceptical of the penalty decision and said of Silva: “For him to get that high off the floor with his arms above his head is almost a skill in itself. I was quite impressed with how far he travelled."

“If I kicked my kid in the garden, I don’t think he’d fall like that, so it was a moment where there has to be a bit of honour within the game where you go ‘OK, he has caught me, but it’s not enough’.”

City have enough quality without diving all over the show.  That breakthrough penalty in the first half made their life easier.

I don't have much time for the regular antics of their other lad, Leroy Sane.   Officials need to clamp down on such carry on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhywhfGWaUA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhywhfGWaUA)
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2017, 03:25:24 PM
Things are bad.  Even Djimi Traore is having a go.    ??? ::) :P

Midway through the first half, Traore tweeted:

“No way you can win trophy with that defense, come on LFC wake up”.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2017, 05:10:04 PM
I have been suspecting for many weeks, that Klopp is in danger of losing the faith of senior players in the dressing room.  Maybe it has already happened.  Senior players won't forever allow themselves to be scapegoats for idiotic tactics.

I saw Milner last season - Hendo this season.  Lovren, Matip, Countinho, Ferminho, Mignolet.

The King has no clothes. 

The wares of the snake-oil salesman have been caught on.   

If a manager comes into your club, and dictates that the key to being a top club, is building from the front, and possession play, then it's time to recruit a new manager. 

Despite coming to a club with a record of a poor defence, in his two years at the helm, Klopp has only recruited one defender that gets a regular game. 

Last season, we at least had a great record against the top clubs.  This season even that has changed.  It seems the top clubs now have our boss sussed out.  Just let Liverpool have endless possession, and hit them hard on the counter.  Indeed, just dink the ball over our defence, and more often than not, you will score.

Klopp's time is up.  Though he may go far in the champions league, I suggest that last season's 4th place finish, will be the highest  he ever achieves with Liverpool.  Van Dijk is not the answer, a top manager is the requirement.   I'd be privately speaking with Benitez and Ancelotti, with a view to taking over in May.

Indeed, I would love to have had the Spurs boss in the Liverpool dugout.  I suspect he will end up at Old Trafford.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Edward224 on October 23, 2017, 06:59:00 PM
What us and our rivals have spent on defence in last two years:

City - £180m
Chelsea: £109m
Spurs - £71m
Utd - £61m
Liverpool - £12m (£0m on players that start)

When will you realise the problem is not Klopp but FSG.

I believe that Klopp has put too much faith in certain players in the belief that he can improve them. This has clearly failed.

He clearly wanted a centre back but it's not his fault the way we completely bombed the Van Dijk deal that lays squarely on FSG and Michael Edwards.

However the lack a plan to find an alternate is the fault of everyone at the club.

But look at our net spend and you'll soon realise that with £30m net spend in each of the past few seasons we can only go so far.

Hark back to Rafa (FSG will never hire Rafa btw and I mean never) all you want but he'd encounter the same issues in terms of net spend issues.

As said when we appointed Jurgen that he'd damage his reputation here and it is proven correct unfortunately. As long as FSG hold the purse strings we will continue to be a sell to buy club.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Edward224 on October 23, 2017, 07:14:42 PM
I could see why Klopp looked at some players and thought there is a realistic possibility that they could kick on this season while approaching their peak years and show that after all the work he's done with them they would now be good enough for our ambitions - it would probably be the way he shows that not everything is about buying players.

However some of these players have gone the other way this season and I refuse to believe that a genuine winner like Klopp would make a mistake like Wenger and choose loyalty to these players instead of brutal desire to improve upon them as they were given more than enough chances to show they can do the job we hoped they could do.

It's clear now that this will be a transitional season in which we'll have time to identify players who could truly help our attack and make a genuine push for the title next season. We're not that far away if we show determination not to tolerate mediocrity of some of our defenders.

Surely the penny has dropped and Klopp will have to reevaluate some of his assessments.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2017, 08:44:55 PM
(http://e1.365dm.com/12/09/800x600/Peter-Gulacsi-Liverpool-Player-Profile_2835445.jpg?20120927211312)

Ex-Liverpool man Peter Gulacsi voted best keeper in Germany

FORMER Liverpool man Peter Gulacsi has been named best goalkeeper in the Bundesliga so far this season to heap yet more misery on Reds fans.

full story and video of saves at:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/654543/Liverpool-news-Peter-Gulacsi-best-goalkeeper-Bundesliga-saves-video (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/654543/Liverpool-news-Peter-Gulacsi-best-goalkeeper-Bundesliga-saves-video)
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2017, 09:05:57 PM
What us and our rivals have spent on defence in last two years:

City - £180m
Chelsea: £109m
Spurs - £71m
Utd - £61m
Liverpool - £12m (£0m on players that start)

When will you realise the problem is not Klopp but FSG.

when we genuinely had bad owners, namely the Toxic Yanks, Rafa had peanuts to spend in his two final seasons.

2008/09 net spend: £2 and a half million

2009/10 net spend: £10,000  (that's right - ten thousand pounds net)

Jurgen, on the other hand, has had major money to spend. 

But he seems to only want to recruit offensive players.  And the one lad he brought in for the defence, for 10 million quid, looks as if he has been already judged as not good enough (that's what it feel like anyway, from the outside, looking in).

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2017, 11:48:09 AM
Things are bad.  Even Djimi Traore is having a go.    ??? ::) :P

Midway through the first half, Traore tweeted:

“No way you can win trophy with that defense, come on LFC wake up”.

That's class. The legend that is Djimi.

We just have to laugh, to find some light relief, otherwise we'll all go mad.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2017, 12:12:28 PM
Surely the penny has dropped and Klopp will have to reevaluate some of his assessments.

Klopp makes assessments, based on which Klopp makes decisions. Ergo, Klopp shares in the responsibility.

There's been more than enough mention of the likes of Edwards, Hunter and Fallows and the methods and model (if there is one) of recruitment, to make it clear that Klopp is not completely to blame, and change to the whole recruitment process is far more vital and pressing than any individual signing that may be required.

That can not be done without some sort of input from FSG, obviously, so we're aware, more than aware, of the culpability of FSG in the whole picture.

Looking at the evidence, it's hard to totally accept that Klopp indeed is in total control, and I mean he has the first and last say in everything to do with which positions need strengthening, the names of the targets required for said positions, how many, who leaves etc, etc.

Who's decision was it to spend at least £35M on Oxlade-Chamberlain, when we were woefully short of the required quality at centre back last season, and with Sakho being sold (again, who's decision was that) and Lucas being allowed to leave, doing nothing, spending nothing, would very obviously leave us in an even more precarious position.

There seems to be no willingness to spend money on the defence and defensive side of the team. Klopp has brought in 4 players on the defensive side of things, for a total spend, not even nett spend, of less than £20M.

£25M on Wijnaldum alone. More than on the defence in total.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2017, 12:21:56 PM
I refuse to believe that a genuine winner like Klopp would make a mistake like Wenger and choose loyalty to these players instead of brutal desire to improve upon them as they were given more than enough chances to show they can do the job we hoped they could do.

That's your opinion. Equally valuable as anyone else's, no matter how they may differ, but just an opinion.

Any manager, no matter his track record, can make mistakes. It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that Klopp, like many others at the club, like the players on the pitch, has made mistakes, had errors of judgement, placed too much faith, or even hope, in players and outcomes.

It's no one person's fault. It's a collective failing, both off the pitch and on it.

Klopp is not entirely at fault, but he's hardly blameless too.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2017, 12:37:33 PM
And Lovren does not deserve to be hung out to dry....nor Matip, nor Mignolet.   

Exactly. If you freeze frame any part of any of the goals on Sunday, you can count numerous issues and errors.

There is a situation in each goal where there is an error by an individual that could be termed as 'pivotal', but if everything else was functioning properly, either we wouldn't have got as far as the error being able to happen, or the error wouldn't be pivotal, as the structure would have been there to sort it straight after.

Whilst all three mentioned made errors, I have a certain amount of sympathy with whoever plays at centre back or in goal. They're left exposed constantly. Their job made far harder than it could be. Any error is made more glaring and has a far greater effect on things.
It's got to affect their mindset, and ultimately their confidence. The errors were bad and shouldn't have happened, but they are being asked to do more than is sensible, and are in a position where they know everything they attempt is so crucial. That can make them act in a way they otherwise wouldn't if they felt protected, helped, that things were more in control.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2017, 12:49:32 PM
Whilst all three mentioned made errors, I have a certain amount of sympathy with whoever plays at centre back or in goal. They're left exposed constantly.

they are being asked to do more than is sensible, and are in a position where they know everything they attempt is so crucial.

absolutely. 

with Klopp wanting our full-backs to be constantly supporting the attack it means crazy pressure on our two centrebacks, when the other side breaks.

being a Liverpool centreback, or keeper, must be one of the most thankless jobs in sport.

in my lifetime, I have never seen anything at Liverpool anywhere close to this defensive shambles.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2017, 07:26:12 PM
(https://www.tarafdari.com/sites/default/files/contents/user250529/content-article/bild-46670-resimage_v-variantbig16x9_w-960_1.jpg)

Incoming Liverpool midfielder Naby Keita is one of the best players Ralf Rangnick has ever worked with....with the RB Leipzig sporting director admitting he always knew the Reds would win the battle to sign him.

“He's one of the best I've worked with in 20 years of professional football,” Rangnick, who has worked with the likes of Liverpool pair Sadio Mane and Roberto Firmino and Bayern Munich’s David Alaba, told Kicker.

“I’d also prefer, 10 times, that we'd kept him for another five years - but we are just not able to pay salaries in excess of €10m.”
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2017, 07:37:54 PM
absolutely. 

with Klopp wanting our full-backs to be constantly supporting the attack it means crazy pressure on our two centrebacks, when the other side breaks.

being a Liverpool centreback, or keeper, must be one of the most thankless jobs in sport.

in my lifetime, I have never seen anything at Liverpool anywhere close to this defensive shambles.

Exactly. Just as we see how exposed and vulnerable the two centre halves are left, and with a goalkeeper behind them, who can also pull the sort of stupidity (for the first goal) and just plain dire technique (for the fourth goal) and therefore is just plumb unreliable, you have to wonder what they (whichever pair are put in the firing line of playing centre half) are thinking. Sometimes they look shell shocked, or just plain disbelieving at what they're expected to deal with. Lovren hesitated, as if unsure what to do, and let the ball go over his head for the first. So when that then proved to be the wrong action, he just did the opposite and rashly attacked the ball, missing it the next time.
They don't look sure of what to do. People who practice find they do things automatically because practice makes it come naturally. Practice develops understanding. Our centre halves don't look like people who have been drilled, who have practiced things time and again. Nothing looks like it comes naturally. Everything has to be worked out, and that thinking time, and lack of surety, keeps proving fatal.

Even a superb reader of the game like Hyypia, or a pure defender like Carragher or Terry would flounder in this team.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 25, 2017, 12:04:48 PM
you have to wonder what they (whichever pair are put in the firing line of playing centre half) are thinking. Sometimes they look shell shocked, or just plain disbelieving at what they're expected to deal with.

Lovren hesitated, as if unsure what to do, and let the ball go over his head for the first. So when that then proved to be the wrong action, he just did the opposite and rashly attacked the ball, missing it the next time.

They don't look sure of what to do.

Even a superb reader of the game like Hyypia, or a pure defender like Carragher or Terry would flounder in this team.

totally agree.

even two world class centrebacks, like Maldini and Nesta, would have their work cut out in this nutty setup.

your back four (or three) is supposed to be typically lined up across the 18 yard line, NOT the half way line.

it is madness re defending. 

It is also madness for our offence too.  We have such pacy forwards, so why the hell are we compacting the space at the front - allowing them nowhere to speed into?

Klopp's possession mantra is meaningless. 

Mid table clubs had him worked out early on. And worryingly, the evidence so far this season, suggests that top clubs in England now have him sussed out too.

i.e. let Liverpool have as much of the ball as they want.....and just hit them on the counter via throwing or dinking the ball over their defence.

Rope-a-dope.


Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 25, 2017, 06:13:16 PM
Wagner: Klopp’s Liverpool have problems scoring and defending

http://www.teamtalk.com/news/wagner-klopps-liverpool-have-problems-scoring-and-defending (http://www.teamtalk.com/news/wagner-klopps-liverpool-have-problems-scoring-and-defending)

 ;D  ;D


That's alright then. I thought we had serious problems. As you were, then.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Edward224 on October 25, 2017, 07:42:02 PM
Thing is, no matter what shape Klopp writes down on paper, ultimately in possession we will (or should) end up in something closely resembling 3-4-3 in our build up play.

The center backs split, Henderson drops and the full backs push up to give us width.

Off the ball, our shape is constantly changing dependant upon what we are doing and trying to achieve. Counter pressing the rule is that everyone can press except for the back 3.

I guess the question is whether off the ball it would be better for us to have 3 (or 5) players or 4. There is no simply answer really. It would force Klopp to narrow his tactical approach though.

His current system is a highly flexible system which changes continuously throughout the game to deal with the threats being faced. It will see us press passing lanes at times when using pressing traps - like how we saw with Pep's Barca. It will allow us to go man oriented when containing sides first and foremost, as we did against Sevilla. It allows us to use ball oriented pressing where we surround and suffocate the ball carrier where we have no discernible marking or team shape.

The problem with our system is it's complicated. Therefore it takes longer to learn and longer still to master. And of course while that learning process occurs, we look a shambles. It's why Chamberlain wont be featuring in our midfield until he understand things tactically enough to not be a liability in there. Stepping out at the wrong time, not knowing whether we are set up to press man, ball, space, passing lanes. Not knowing if he should track runners in a man oriented zonal system or whether he maintains shape.

Which means as it's failing now, we want to see it change. Rather than simply believing that this will take time (and maybe better players) to perfect. If the latter, do we change until we have those better players, which will mean moving back to it could be a longer learning process for them all. Or do we persevere and simply replace those who are not learning quick enough window to window.

I think as fans we only think and see short term. We have problems now. Therefore we want solutions now. That means seeing an actual tangible change of some description. Seeing that change = positive, the manager is pragmatic. Not seeing that change = stubborn, insane, how can persisting with this achieve different results? In reality maybe we just need to be patient. Because for us time is linear, we cannot see the destination until we arrive at it. I am sure there is a plan in place to get us from where we are now to where we want to be. Just because we cannot see it, feel it, touch it yet, doesn't make it less real. We just need to believe it's there.

If we set up more "conservatively" then we will likely face more attacks as well as have fewer ourselves. However it should be harder for sides to find spaces in our half to make good scoring chances from them. If you look at the games against Hoffenheim, Sevilla, Arsenal, and City - we did actually set up this way and look to counter. The problem becomes doing this against a side who won't push their shape into your half exposing themselves to counters and instead will happily only push their midfield line to half way then look to play for territory with aerial transitions. You then may still concede some scoring chances without actually getting much opportunity to have counter attacking moments yourself.

Klopp's system requires explosive players at full back who are strong in 1v1 encounters. We have seen this season how many goals have come from Gomez & TAA being beaten in 1-v-1 too easily (e.g. Albrighton for Leicester). Moreno has been excellent in 1-v-1's this season and his low center of gravity, pace and new found desire to stay on his feet is making him pretty solid for us there. Clyne is also excellent in 1-v-1 (except when Chamberlain destroyed him last year).

There is a reason at Dortmund Klopp would rotate out full backs and central/attacking midfielders when they hit 29 and have them gone entirely at 31 from the squad. Rangnick would start the replacement process even earlier in the mid 20's. A high pressing system requires a lot of pace, balance, agility and stamina. The first things to go with age.

Moreno/Robertson are going to be our left backs going forward, unless Moreno hugely regresses. Clyne/TAA are our right backs. Matip will get a chance with a reliable CB partner to find form. I suspect Karius will get a sustained chance to be #1 before Klopp writes him off. Like Matip, Gini will also get a chance in well balanced midfield. Coutinho, Mane, Salah, Firmino, Origi, Solanke, Chamberlain are a nice set of attacking options.

I think a starting #6 to replace Can, a starting CB to replace Lovren + Keita. Then the Karius we saw in the Bundesliga - or a new keeper if he cannot get to that level here when given the chance. Suspect that will be the next wave of changes we will see to the squad. Maybe Lemar (or other) for Coutinho if he leaves. Sturridge will be leave too I think.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2017, 03:46:01 PM
Time hardly seems to be yielding improvement, in fact quite the opposite.

How much longer will players be given 'to get it'?

Klopp may only have been here for two years, but with our defensive problems being much longer standing than that, it's very difficult to keep re-setting the patience button every time there's a new manager or new approach starting.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 28, 2017, 07:06:32 PM
A well worked ruse. Lovren gets selected to play, looking like the manager is backing his player, only to be taken out of the firing line at the last minute with a muscle injury warming up. Now he can safely put a few games distance between the Spurs game as he 'recovers from injury' ;D
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 29, 2017, 12:55:44 PM
Good to see Sturridge get a goal, and the quality of his finish. If he can manage it, it would be good to see him given 60 minutes against Maribor on Wednesday.

Likewise to see Gomez start at centre half.

Hopefully yesterday's result will have a greater effect than the 7-0 against Maribor did.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 29, 2017, 09:30:52 PM
A well worked ruse. Lovren gets selected to play, looking like the manager is backing his player, only to be taken out of the firing line at the last minute with a muscle injury warming up. Now he can safely put a few games distance between the Spurs game as he 'recovers from injury' ;D

 ;D

the politics of it all.

like I mean, who gets injured in the warm up.

Ultimately an easy victory.

But Milner is our penalty taker.  He needs to be taking them (or Hendo).

We can't be letting anyone grab the ball.

Overall good performance.  And we will get better as senior players return from injury.

But time will tell as to whether Klopp is any use at finding a balanced side.  I suspect not.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on October 30, 2017, 04:03:57 PM
But Milner is our penalty taker.  He needs to be taking them (or Hendo).

Exactly. Why try mending what's not broken.

West Ham (away) and Southampton (home) will provide us with a sterner test of the defence than Huddersfield did.

I know Karius kept a clean sheet last time out against Maribor, but with the defence looking slightly less shaky against Huddersfield, then surely a bit of stability and continuity would be helpful bu keeping Mignolet in goal on Wednesday.
A second clean sheet and few goals to strengthen our goal difference could be another small step in the right direction, and at the moment even small steps are seeming to take on greater significance.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2017, 04:48:13 PM
I know Karius kept a clean sheet last time out against Maribor, but with the defence looking slightly less shaky against Huddersfield, then surely a bit of stability and continuity would be helpful bu keeping Mignolet in goal on Wednesday.
A second clean sheet and few goals to strengthen our goal difference could be another small step in the right direction, and at the moment even small steps are seeming to take on greater significance.

stability, especially in defence, has always been key to a successful side.

klopp's chopping and changing is stupid.

he must have made some pre season agreement with our second and third keepers, to give Ward our league cup games (err, game)......and Karius our Champions League games.  Maybe after group stages, klopp opts to use our number one keeper.

As you say, continuity would be nice against Maribor.

I saw Klopp having a few jabs at the Anfield faithful.....seemingly annoyed at the atmosphere in the first half v Huddersfield.  The supporters aren't stupid.  The jury, at best, is out re Klopp being fit to put together a balanced side.   

 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Edward224 on November 03, 2017, 07:04:31 PM
Salah, Firmino and Milner have all missed pens this season!

Maybe it's time the Captain took them!
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on November 03, 2017, 11:16:42 PM
Salah, Firmino and Milner have all missed pens this season!

Maybe it's time the Captain took them!

Whoever takes them needs to borrow Klopp's magic trainers to take them in.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2017, 07:28:14 AM
I always took the penalties for the team I played for.

There is no divine right to score. 

Milner didn't miss his penalty. The keeper made a good save.

Milner would be my penalty taker.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on November 04, 2017, 05:32:43 PM
I always took the penalties for the team I played for.

There is no divine right to score. 

Milner didn't miss his penalty. The keeper made a good save.

Milner would be my penalty taker.

Likewise.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Agreed.

I think Milner's earned the right to be our penalty taker if he's on the pitch. His record speaks for itself.

Milner's penalty would have been good enough 9/10 times, but like on numerous occasions in the match, the keeper pulled off an excellent save. 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on November 04, 2017, 05:39:22 PM
Milner's only on the bench, and with Hendo out injured Mignolet's been made captain.

I'd have left Wijnaldum on the bench as it's an away game and his return from injury (I know it was only a short period).

With Oxlade-Chamberlain starting, it looks like Can gets to sit. I'd trust Milner's discipline in that role ahead of Can's every time.

I think I'm going to file a missing player's report on Robertson at my nearest copshop.  ;D

LIVERPOOL: Mignolet, Gomez, Matip, Klavan, Moreno, Can, Wijnaldum, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Salah, Mane, Firmino.
Subs: Karius, Lovren, Alexander-Arnold, Milner, Grujic, Solanke, Sturridge.

I get the feeling Klopp doesn't think Gomez is ready for an extended run (of more than 1 game) at centre half.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on November 05, 2017, 02:18:09 PM
Good win, of course, and a set of well made, well taken goals.

I know we're never going to shut out a team from creating any chances, but the defence still looked a concern. Ayew's early chance where everyone was ball watching again and Moreno had tucked in too far leaving Ayew clear.

For the goal, Gomez should have attacked and cleared the ball, though I'm not quite sure what he thought he was doing, and there were a couple of 'good' chances for The Hammers in the second half that really shouldn't have happened.

Our players appear to focus solely on the ball, rather than being aware of opposition players around them that they should be picking up. Looking at the position of the back four for Ayew's chance, it looked like they were all positioned nicely if zonely marking, but as Ayew wasn't in "anyone's zone" he wasn't picked up and had a clear chance. We have to pick up/mark players, especially once play gets into our defensive third of the pitch.
Defending no longer becomes about cutting out dangerous spaces or reducing clear lines of an effective pass once play is in or around our box. It's about stopping players from having chances, whether shots or headers.
Ultimately, players, not zones or spaces, score goals.
We're always open to a ball played from one side of the pitch to the other around and in our area, as players are lining up zonely, and not picking up opponents.
Both Ayew's chance and Lanzini's goal came from a ball starting from the opposite side of the pitch, and both were in the widest position, and neither player was effectively dealt with when the ball came to them, as our full backs (who were our widest placed players) had tucked in and were in a more zonal formation within the back line.

Gomez, to me, looked as though he was caught between 'going to his man' or staying in his zone, as the ball came across.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2017, 03:27:15 PM
I think I'm going to file a missing player's report on Robertson at my nearest copshop.  ;D

 ;D

yes, the lad seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth and into a black hole.

I'd be pretty depressed if I couldn't compete with Moreno for the jersey.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2017, 03:37:55 PM
the defence still looked a concern. Ayew's early chance where everyone was ball watching again and Moreno had tucked in too far leaving Ayew clear.

For the goal, Gomez should have attacked and cleared the ball

there were a couple of 'good' chances for The Hammers in the second half that really shouldn't have happened.

Our players appear to focus solely on the ball, rather than being aware of opposition players around them

Ultimately, players, not zones or spaces, score goals.

totally agree.

I saw the highlights last night - and was shouting at the screen, that we were "ball-watching" again for their goal.....and on other hammer chances.

Sometimes I really think that Klopp doesn't even have the basic skills, re coaching.  Pub teams try and eradicate ball-watching - so why should a big professional club be regularly caught doing it.

Ok, we hammered the bubble-blowers.....but this could have been something like a 4-6 scoreline. 

There is no future to such an ill-balanced setup.  Progress will never be made on the back of such a flawed strategy.

Any manager worth his salt, that goes ahead, then will sit back, which forces the opposition to commit players forward......THUS leaving gaps in behind for us to exploit and score more goals.

But Klopp doesn't do this.  He has one mode of operation - attack, attack, attack. 

But at least yesterday, he had Liverpool pinging the ball around at speed.  The slow possession based build-ups never work in his system.  But when we decide to stop masturbating over our possession and endless meaningless passes, and actually move the ball faster, we score goals.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on November 10, 2017, 06:24:58 PM
off topic

awful penalty decision for the Swizz.   Beyond awful.

Come on N Ireland in the return leg!!

And come on the Republic v Denmark!
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on November 18, 2017, 05:10:11 PM
off topic

awful penalty decision for the Swizz.   Beyond awful.

Come on N Ireland in the return leg!!

And come on the Republic v Denmark!

Why would Michael O'Neill want to manage Scotland over Northern Ireland? If he'd been offered the Rangers' job, or a PL job, then I'd understand, but Scotland over his own homeland? Why?

Moyes should have put himself forward for the Scots' job and eased himself back into management. West Ham's a no win. The Hammers fans think they should play like Brazil, for some bizarre reason.

Hopefully Watford keep hold of Silva. He's too good for Neverton. I hope Rhino gets it full time and leads the charge straight to the second tier. It would be sweet seeing one of their 'legends' getting them relegated.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on November 18, 2017, 05:13:27 PM
Imagine if Salah was a clinical finisher, how many goals he'd get for the season. Klopp seems to have identified a 'perfect fit' in Salah. Credit to him.

And another unsoiled piece of bedding. Can't really ask for too much more. Now let's put a run together until the  end of January at least.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2017, 05:33:54 PM
Will Grujic actually get a chance this season? Wijnaldum, Can and Henderson are hardly setting the bar very high this season.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2017, 05:53:22 PM
It's hard not to be impressed by the progress Watford have made this season under Marco Silva.

If things keep going like this, it's hard to see him not being picked up by a bigger club in the Summer (that's not meant as a hint  ;D).

The Bitters really need to get Rhino signed up on a 6 year deal before a pub team realises their manager's taken a recent leave of absence.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on December 10, 2017, 04:16:03 PM
Liverpool 1 Everton 1

we totally dominated the game.

And then Klopp takes off our most dangerous player, Salah, mid second half while only one up.

Nutty (unless Salah was injured).

We should have scored far more.

Klopp's team cannot put games to bed.   It's the same story, over and over again.

His game management is non-existent. 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on December 10, 2017, 11:09:02 PM
After a couple of good results, especially with our 'experimental' defence at Brighton, frustration returns.

It was a soft penalty that Hendo conceded, but you'd hope our players would learn from that and be a bit careful what they did in our area.

I think Klopp's looking at the number of fixtures coming up, and giving Salah a bit of a break, though you can plan to do something but ultimately the state of the game must make the final decision.
At 2 or 3 nil, we're more comfortable and that situation allows for Salah to be subbed.

With a bit more thought and care all round though, we should have seen this through, a bagged the all important 3 points.

With Chelsea and the Mancs losing and Arsenal drawing, we could could have gain more on those above and just below us.
Still, we maintained our position over Arsenal and Spurs and gained a point more than the Mancs and Chelsea.

At least the number of goals we're conceding has reduced over the last few games, but the need for new defensive based players is no less. In fact it's more vital, so that new players can come into a team under slightly less recent pressure for their defensive displays. 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Gurdeep on December 11, 2017, 10:06:32 AM
Liverpool 1 Everton 1

we totally dominated the game.

And then Klopp takes off our most dangerous player, Salah, mid second half while only one up.

Nutty (unless Salah was injured).

We should have scored far more.

Klopp's team cannot put games to bed.   It's the same story, over and over again.

His game management is non-existent.

I knew when Mane missed the opportunity to pass to a team mate to make it 2 nil we were done!  I actually turned the telly off to go do some ironing...lol.

Watched a clip of Kloppo's interview after the game which was prickly to say the least.  Sometimes you gotta admit your mistakes and hold your hands up.  Not Klopp obviously! 

Taking Salah off!  Hahaha.... Fat Sam must of been beaming!  I mean WTF!!!  Lovren....mmm.  Well we should be used to it by now.  We all know he's got a mistake in him which always tends to cost the team, I mean what on gods green earth was he thinking putting his hands on that toffee in his penalty box?  Nuts!!!

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on December 15, 2017, 04:09:35 PM
I knew when Mane missed the opportunity to pass to a team mate to make it 2 nil we were done!  I actually turned the telly off to go do some ironing...lol.

Watched a clip of Kloppo's interview after the game which was prickly to say the least.  Sometimes you gotta admit your mistakes and hold your hands up.  Not Klopp obviously! 

Taking Salah off!  Hahaha.... Fat Sam must of been beaming!  I mean WTF!!!  Lovren....mmm.  Well we should be used to it by now.  We all know he's got a mistake in him which always tends to cost the team, I mean what on gods green earth was he thinking putting his hands on that toffee in his penalty box?  Nuts!!!

yes, if Allardyce had been given a pick, of the one red player that he'd want taken off - it would have been Salah.

Undiluted madness to take off your best player after 65 minutes, in the heat of a derby and only a goal up.

I looked at the penalty thing again from a different angle.  I think the ref had a bit of a nightmare on that one.  The everton lad needs to be up for an oscar nomination.  Lovren didn't do a lot wrong.  Would anyone have been surprised if instead the ref had booked the lad who went down so dramatically.  I don't think too many eyebrows would have been raised if he had been booked.

Like you, I thought the Mane thing before half time, could well come back to haunt us.

He had to get his head up and square it......would have been a tap-in for any one of the three reds alongside him.

4 points dropped at home in 4 days, versus everton and wba.

Title long since gone.....now doing our best to throw a CL spot away too.

We cannot keep on throwing easy points away like this.

We can't win dirty.  We can't scrape results on a bad day.

We are fair-weather bullies.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on December 18, 2017, 02:44:05 PM
4 points dropped at home in 4 days, versus everton and wba.

Title long since gone.....now doing our best to throw a CL spot away too.

We cannot keep on throwing easy points away like this.

We can't win dirty.  We can't scrape results on a bad day.

We are fair-weather bullies.

Then we manage a comfortable win away at Bournemouth. Inconsistency. That will cost us a top four place.

We need to learn to grind out results against teams that we know will come to hold out for a point. They've sensibly designed a game plan, especially away from home. We need to do the same.

Klopp needs to understand, and should now have grasped this, that certain teams, due to their league position and level of players at their disposal, will sensibly see a point as a valuable gain, and will set themselves up to try and achieve it.
Why should they come and play an open game?

We need to deal better with this. Players need to be more focused and more aware of team mates in a better position, especially when chance creation is at a premium. They need to think more about checking if a team mate is better placed, as we can't afford to squander an opening, especially if we're not exactly making chance after chance. 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on December 18, 2017, 02:51:45 PM
Our last two aways have been good to see us win, win by a good margin and actually beat teams 'we should be beating'. It just makes games like Everton and WBA all the more frustrating.

The goals against Bournemouth were well worked, and it was a shame about Coutinho's free kick - it deserved to go in.

How long though before Mane starts to get restless? I think we could actually use either Mane or Salah in the central position Firmino plays, and give ourselves a chance to keep Firmino as fresh as possible, whilst giving all the front four a decent amount of game time. Plus, it could help us to mix things up a bit, and give us a slightly different dimension if we've got Salah, Mane and Coutinho in, as opposed to Firmino, Salah, Coutinho or Firmino, Mane and Coutinho. We can make 4 go into 3 in this case.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Edward224 on December 19, 2017, 10:10:48 PM
Against park the bus team we need more guile and so we need Lallana back in fit and firing ready to go. We only need one of Mane or Salah to start in those games imo. Then when the defences are tiring we bring on either one with 20-25 mins to go.

But Lallana is crucial against parked bus teams because of he can play in tight spaces - even in his cameo at Bournemouth he found himself in a tight space and got out of it easily. We really miss him and his guile in this team.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on December 23, 2017, 01:01:12 AM
I think Kevin Keegan has more managerial talent than this guy on the bench.

Every game, it's the same script.

Even at two or three nil up, he is incapable of winning games.

He said recently, that when he cannot take Liverpool any further, then he would go.  The fat lady is clearing her throat.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on December 23, 2017, 04:53:11 PM
All 3 goals were dire. The first one, Gomez only needs to attack the cross and it's headed clear.
I have no idea what Mignolet was doing on the second one.
As for the third. Can, as he's done so often, tracked back, got to Ozil as he laid the ball off, and then just stopped instead of going with him. Someone needs to tell Can that he can enter our penalty area from open play when he's tracked back - he doesn't have to just stop at the edge of the area. Gomez also could have move across and taken Ozil as he ran through after laying the ball off.

The perfect example of what tracking all the way was Trent's challenge on Jose Izquierdo away at Brighton. He tracked the player all the way and was able to make that challenge. He didn't leave Izquierdo to continue his run unchecked as Can so often does. Can needs to be played played that moment over and over until it sinks in.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on December 23, 2017, 07:50:43 PM
Leon Britton expects to be in charge for Liverpool and reveals his discussions with Swansea City owners

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leon-britton-expects-charge-liverpool-14077800 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leon-britton-expects-charge-liverpool-14077800)



(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/brittan-246244.jpg)


So who's his assistant? Is it?

(http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1495051/lord-norman-lamont.jpg)


Or maybe:

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/02/14/0003A19200000C1D-2953168-Norman_Tebbit_said_his_appearances_on_Spitting_Images_were_enjoy-a-127_1423878322593.jpg)


Or possibly the former 'miniature of sport':


(https://www.footballandmusic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/colin-moynihan-300x196.jpg)


There's a prize of a Simon Mignolet unlucky glove bag for anyone who can name him.


Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on December 25, 2017, 05:40:24 PM
Happy Christmas to everyone, and let's hope for 3 points tomorrow against Swansea.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on December 27, 2017, 11:00:59 AM
Happy Xmas Tes, and to your loved ones.

aye, I had similar smiles when I saw Leon Britton's name come up in the media.   ;D

Another Tory effort at hurting Liverpool. 

And another big embarrassing defeat!

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on December 27, 2017, 11:51:41 AM
The second half was OK, but we need to start games with the required level of performance.

Coutinho has definitely gone up a level this season. Shame the same can't be said of Can.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 01, 2018, 12:12:22 AM
Happy New Year to everyone.

Another hard fought three points at Burnley would wash the Leicester three points down nicely.

It was an horrendous mistake by Matip, but well done to the team that we came back to win.

Salah's out for at least two weeks, but that could give Mane a chance to regain his true form, and Lallana should see more time too.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Another hard fought three points at Burnley would wash the Leicester three points down nicely.

Thanks for obliging me.  ;D

Let's hope this ability to ground out results is a lasting trait.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on January 03, 2018, 12:23:57 AM
It was an horrendous mistake by Matip, but well done to the team that we came back to win.

happy new year Tes, to you and your loved ones, and everyone in here.

yes, and we made a couple of similar mess-ups versus Burnley, but on this occasion got away with them.

Klopp insists on us playing cute little short passes, even in the trickiest of scenarios.....when the obvious solution is to hoof it out of the danger area.

there is very little to be gained by being cute at the back - and a big downside.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 05, 2018, 12:46:45 PM
happy new year Tes, to you and your loved ones, and everyone in here.

yes, and we made a couple of similar mess-ups versus Burnley, but on this occasion got away with them.

Klopp insists on us playing cute little short passes, even in the trickiest of scenarios.....when the obvious solution is to hoof it out of the danger area.

there is very little to be gained by being cute at the back - and a big downside.

Sometimes there is a case to knock it long, and maybe look to win the second ball even, if the longer ball doesn't find it's intended recipient. Whilst it may seem like giving up possession easily, it's preferable to being forced into an error on the edge of your own box.
With the pace we have up front, it's a shame we don't have a keeper with ability that Reina had, to release the ball early, able to throw it long and accurately, rather than a short pass to a central defender, who can immediately be put under pressure, and with there being no midfielder who's job it is to be the quick outlet pass for either of our centre backs, when they receive a hurried pass, or an ill judged one that puts them under immediate pressure.

If you're always going to 'play out' from the back, you need a midfielder who either comes short and takes the ball off the centre halves, or who at least puts himself in a position where a quick easy pass can be made to him by the centre half, when the centre half inevitably gets closed down quickly.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 06, 2018, 12:45:51 AM
Another ground out win with us not at our best.

Can at fault, yet again, for not tracking Sigurdsson. I wonder if he'll make it to Juve or will he stop at the edge of the Italian coast?

That peno evens up the Henderson one.

I thought Robertson dealt ok with Bolasie, and is growing into the team.

Van Dijk. Next season's new captain.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 07, 2018, 02:04:54 PM
Liverpool star Roberto Firmino should receive a 10-game ban if guilty - Stan Collymore

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/672142/Liverpool-Roberto-Firmino-10-game-ban-Mason-Holgate-FA-Cup (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/672142/Liverpool-Roberto-Firmino-10-game-ban-Mason-Holgate-FA-Cup)

So Collymore doesn't find it remotely odd that at the exact moment Holgate reacts to what was said, the ref was right there in between the two players, had been for several seconds before Holgate's reaction, and yet the ref didn't respond in any way to what Firmino said.

Surely if Firmino uses the 'n' word in the ref's hearing, and unless the ref was stone deaf, Firmino's verbal tirade was said in the ref's hearing, then the ref would have taken immediate action.

What's the betting, that Firmino being as angry as he was, and made angry in an instant, let's rip at Holgate in his native tongue of Portuguese rather than go through the mental process of trying to translate his angry outburst into English first.

And what about the violent conduct that sent Firmino needlessly over the hoardings? Will that be punished?

I hope Holgate hasn't said something that's false to try and deflect what he had done wrong in the first place.

There were also plenty of players around the two of them at the point of Holgate's reaction, yet there is no reaction from any other player, especially Everton ones.

A false accusation should be punished with the same ban as a genuine racial incident, only it should be Holgate getting the ban. A false accusation sets back the attempt to remove genuine racist incidents.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on January 07, 2018, 02:56:11 PM
A false accusation should be punished with the same ban as a genuine racial incident, only it should be Holgate getting the ban. A false accusation sets back the attempt to remove genuine racist incidents.

absolutely.

I am still unclear as to how Holgate, a kid from Doncaster, is fluent in Portuguese.  This has never been explained.   And if the alleged jibe was in english, amazingly nobody else seems to have heard the N word being used.  I was reading about Holgate being lucky a few days earlier, in a dirty tackle from behind on United's Lingard......supposedly could easily have broken a leg...only being a booking.  Someone called him a nasty piece of work - a Joey Barton junior.

On a wider scale - I have to say I was very angry at the BBC coverage of the game.

Not only was the TV producer amateurish, in his/her wrong choice of camera shots (action happening, and them still on some close-up shot of something irrelevant), but also the punditry.

Shearer and his pals now have changed their tune.  A few weeks ago at the same ground, they crucified Lovren and said it was a clear penalty - you can't put your hands on the opponent in the box, was their cry.

Now some three weeks later, Shearer and his pals are adamant that "it's a contact sport" and Holgate's arms all over the Liverpool player did not constitute a penalty.  Shearer has been called out on his hypocrisy in social media since the game.

I liked the way Klopp threw this back in the face of journalists after the game.  i.e. he said that he was sorry three weeks earlier, and was clearly wrong....and unaware that hands on an opponent was an automatic penalty.  He has learned and now tonight's was clearly a penalty too.  He beat them with their own cane.

Also, the pundits never focussed on the clear foul of Matip that led to the Everton goal.

Also they were quick, at half time, to put down Firminho, referring to spitting at Holgate.  They had to row back on that one.   And it was as much as Shearer could do, as to suggest Holgate maybe could have been booked for his dangerous push on Firminho.

Rooney also should have got his marching orders in that first half.  Again, no focus on the tackles.

Of course Murphy referring to a scouser, and his crutches, being on benefits, was the usual anti-merseyside nonsense.  I'd call it racist/regionalist.

From a national public broadcaster, I felt their coverage was well below par.

I'd replace the lot of them.  They seem to be a happy little club, far too smug and limited, to be employed as pundits.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 07, 2018, 04:18:23 PM
It was real sick bag, cringeworthy stuff at times, and Shearer's viewpoint changes according to the team or personnel involved. His ex-England team mates always get an easy ride, where as those foreigners etc.................

I'm surprised Holgate's shove on Firmino wasn't brushed over completely, after all "it's a contact sport".

Lovren and Henderson can't put their hands on a player in the box, otherwise it's a penalty, and they 'should know that'. Holgate on the other hand, can, as long as it's not overly forceful because "it's a contact sport".
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on January 07, 2018, 06:28:10 PM
apart from woeful commentators (endless meaningless data and drivel), I rarely ever get pissed at coverage of a game.  But I found the BBC's coverage of this game as cringeworthy (as you refer to it).

As a public broadcaster, the BBC was well below par.  I am surprised that there has not been a lot of complaints.

I don't understand why the likes of Holgate and Rooney get an easy ride from punditry team, while Firminhio (and in many other games, Lovren) and our lads get crucified. 

I am a big believer in equality.  And I think we need to see highly paid broadcasters confronted. 

The half-time (and full-time) allegations against the Brazilian were out of order.  And the dig at the scouser on benefits was beyond contempt.  If the same was said about a foreign citizen, or a person of colour, the pundit would be finished.   I thought Murphy was better than that. 

That little punditry group are far too smug and casual.   They are far too cosy and familiar with their surroundings.  I'd break it up and bring in fresh faces.

Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on January 15, 2018, 05:36:43 PM
Liverpool 4 City 3

fantastic result.

though we got to see the best of Liverpool and the worst of Liverpool.

if Klopp knew a damn thing about defending/balance, he would be the best in the business.

even at 4-3, in injury time, rather than send Milner and his pals into the corner to hold the ball up, he is encouraging them forward.   :o :o :o :o :o

was surprised to see Klarius start.....and as I predicted to friends here, he would make a mess-up.  Mind you, depsite SKy not mentioning it, Gomez also was woeful......again he loses diagonal balls mid-flight.  A bit of a problem if you're a defender.

But great result....9 minutes of fantastic closing down/pressing/counter attacking.  Wolrd class goals from Firminho and Salah.....and Mane's and the Ox's were darn good too!

Phil who?    Ringo has left.  The fab three march on to greater glories!


Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 15, 2018, 09:14:44 PM
Bi-polar FC.

It's the new Liverpool 4 - 3 Newcastle.

Gomez has a real problem with direction and flight of ball, and at what point in it's flight (journey) is the point at which it needs to be attacked, and make sure you are there to do it.

The Sane goal was Karius re-living Dudek's nightmare's against Forlan.

All our finishes were sublime. City's 2nd and 3rd was how it must be like as a human to play against a bar-football machine team.

Ox is finding his feet more with each game and is starting to jog memories of what he was thought to be when he first left Southampton.

Our title tilt this year has to be beating the Mancs and Chelsea to 2nd, and the Mancs in the FA Cup final.
I was going to say beating the Bitters in the final or claiming the Arsenal Cup off them, but then neither of those things are possible.  ;D

It's funny how sometimes a team loses who is regarded as their 'best' player, but then it allows others to 'grow' and fill the 'hole'. Hopefully that's going to happen for us, especially where Ox and Bobby are concerned.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 16, 2018, 12:26:09 PM
How does Karius get to be declared no1 after the City performance?

Mignolet hasn't been consistently poor enough, yes there was there Xhaka shot, and Karius obviously much better when he's played, for there to be a change in the goalkeeping situation.

If for some reason (other than the obvious one of which keeper was signed by which manager) Klopp was thinking of making Karius no1 (because of Mignolet's error against Arsenal), then surely the City game is a huge red flag.

I'd much prefer to see Danny Ward given a shot, as he's the only unknown performer. He may turn out to be our version of Burnley's Nick Pope.

I just don't see what Karius has to offer - there's no hint of a great keeper within nearly ready to burst out and flourish.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on January 16, 2018, 09:56:31 PM
I'd much prefer to see Danny Ward given a shot, as he's the only unknown performer. He may turn out to be our version of Burnley's Nick Pope.

I just don't see what Karius has to offer - there's no hint of a great keeper within nearly ready to burst out and flourish.

yes, of the two, Mignolet (for me) is much better than Klarius.

maybe Mignolet's mistake versus Arsenal, was the final straw for Klopp.   But why bite off your hand to spite your face.  Klarius is bog standard.  He is not good enough, at present, for a top club.....and may never be.   He just seems too young, too lightweight.....he never gets you out of a fix.  The City goal was so predictable.  A top keeper saves the majority of those types of shots.  But you just know that Klarius never will get you out of a hold.

I'd bring in a top keeper in the summer, and sell both Mignolet and Klarius.  And make Danny Ward my number two (if he accepts that role).

 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 23, 2018, 09:46:32 PM
Liverpool Football Club - we beat the best and lose to the worst.

What a terrible performance. We've now lost ground again on those above us.

Why is Wijnaldum on the pitch for away games - it leaves us playing with 10 men each time.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on January 24, 2018, 01:35:06 AM
yes very depressing

must be a rare record - beat the runaway leaders one week, and the next game lose to the bottom club.

klopp has no tactics......play far too compressed in opposition;s half.  Thus there's no room for speed merchants, like Mane and Salah, to make hay.

and why do we feed the ball endlessly out wide to Robertson, in the winger role, when he just passes it back again to our defenders/midfield.

we need a proper two pronged attack, and space for them to move in....in games like this.

agree re Wildnajum.....Can no better.  Keita will be an upgrade.


Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 25, 2018, 11:39:04 PM
We are in desperate need of creativity from midfield. Whether Coutinho played deeper, and therefore in midfield, or one of three 'up top', he was the link between the obvious midfield (Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can etc) and the attackers.

He wasn't a winger, he wasn't a true attacker in the way that Salah, Mane and Firmino (at least how Klopp has him playing) are, or was he a true midfielder. He was the blending point between midfield and 'the attack'.

With a midfield of mainly Henderson, Can and Wijnaldum, the likes of Mane, Salah, Firmino etc (Sturridge and Ings too) are going to be devoid of service, especially against teams who don't 'come out and play' like City did.

Whether he adds a creative type midfielder this month, or he chooses to wait until the Summer and revamp midfield with at least one more quality 'all round' midfielder to go alongside Keita, something needs to happen.

It could be a long second half to the season if we have any more performances like the Swansea one, and we can't get Lallana back and hopefully firing on all cylinders, soon enough.

It's a shame about Goretzka, but we need to find an addition soon, whether he's signed in this or the next window.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on January 27, 2018, 10:19:33 PM
clueless

I'd like to see Klopp gone in the summer - and a proper manager brought in.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 27, 2018, 10:48:21 PM
At least we won the second half 1-0.  :'(
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 27, 2018, 10:49:08 PM
Hopeless. Hapless. Clueless. Trophyless. Again.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 27, 2018, 10:56:14 PM
It's OK Klopp laying into the defenders (again), but it happens and has happened, too many times during his tenure to be down to the players and the players alone.

How is it that so called lesser teams can defend, even though their managers have been there for less time than Klopp has been with us, and with supposedly inferior players.

When there is a problem you need to sort it. After this length of time you have to wonder why the same problem is still there, and to the same degree.

Having decided that Klarius is no1, why does he need to be rested after playing just two league games? He needs time and his defenders need time to develop an understanding. Not another change after two games.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on January 28, 2018, 12:58:31 PM
It's OK Klopp laying into the defenders (again), but it happens and has happened, too many times during his tenure to be down to the players and the players alone.

After this length of time you have to wonder why the same problem is still there, and to the same degree.

Having decided that Klarius is no1, why does he need to be rested after playing just two league games?

I said many times that Van Dyke was not the solution.   Our defensive woes are not primarily personnel-based.  The primary problem is the smiley-one-dimensional-clueless-arrogant-idiot that we have sitting in the dugout.

Klopp has no idea (nor interest) in balance or game management.

In my lifetime, I have never known a side which, even when two or three goals ahead, with 15 minutes to play, will often draw or lose.

The fact this happens repeatedly, is beyond embarrassing. 

If I were the owners or in the boardroom, I would be asking some very serious questions of Klopp.  Imagine what a top manager could be doing with all the resources that Klopp has been given. 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 28, 2018, 05:38:44 PM
I said many times that Van Dyke was not the solution.   Our defensive woes are not primarily personnel-based.  The primary problem is the smiley-one-dimensional-clueless-arrogant-idiot that we have sitting in the dugout.

Klopp has no idea (nor interest) in balance or game management.

In my lifetime, I have never known a side which, even when two or three goals ahead, with 15 minutes to play, will often draw or lose.

The fact this happens repeatedly, is beyond embarrassing. 

If I were the owners or in the boardroom, I would be asking some very serious questions of Klopp.  Imagine what a top manager could be doing with all the resources that Klopp has been given.

It's systemic. The way we play and the way we train. The entire defensive side of the game, outside of 'pressing'
does not look as though it's remotely practiced at all. The players are clueless as to how to go about any of it. The simplest basics of defending are lacking.

Also, what is the function of our midfield three? What are the supposed individual strengths of any of our midfielders and what are they supposedly adding to the sum of the way we're supposed to be playing in Klopp's mind?
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on January 30, 2018, 01:33:25 AM
It's systemic. The way we play and the way we train. The entire defensive side of the game, outside of 'pressing' does not look as though it's remotely practiced at all. The players are clueless as to how to go about any of it. The simplest basics of defending are lacking.

Also, what is the function of our midfield three? What are the supposed individual strengths of any of our midfielders and what are they supposedly adding to the sum of the way we're supposed to be playing in Klopp's mind?

totally agree.

our boss is clueless.   I don't think we train much on the defensive side of things.

jumpers for goalposts - everybody push forward, is the mantra......outscore the opposition!

Little wonder he was caught on at Dortmund after 2 or 3 years.   I suspect he  must have inherited a great defence at Dortmund.   

And given that we hit a bad spell every mid season (and have many injuries), I suspect our lads are knackered by December each season.   Is it any coincidence that we have gone out of the FA Cup each season at the 4th round?
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 30, 2018, 01:05:34 PM
And given that we hit a bad spell every mid season (and have many injuries), I suspect our lads are knackered by December each season.   Is it any coincidence that we have gone out of the FA Cup each season at the 4th round?

It's as though we simply run out of steam by mid-January. To do what Klopp asks of the players, we need a much bigger squad in order to rotate and have 11 'fresh' players to start each game throughout the entire season.

He doesn't seem to have the squad 'paced' to last an entire season.

If he doesn't want, or we can't afford a squad 'big enough', then you have to utilise what you do have in a way that allows them 'to last' an entire season.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on January 30, 2018, 11:40:49 PM
A solid win. I'll take them all day against lower placed teams. It's what we should have done against Swansea and WBA.

Save the spectacular for the teams in the top7 or 8, and be solid and professional against the rest.

I hope the sheer fact that we won doesn't go to any player's head. That was the minimum requirement. No more. No less.

Let's hope Can manages to string another decent (at least, preferably better) performance together for Sunday's visit of Spurs - that will be a much bigger test.

I'm not interested in us trying to hammer Spurs in some misplaced revenge mission. I'll settle for a solid display, a clean sheet, Kane and Eriksen kept quiet and a couple of goals and build some momentum again ahead of the Porto games.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on February 03, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Let's hope Can manages to string another decent (at least, preferably better) performance together for Sunday's visit of Spurs - that will be a much bigger test.

on the topic of Can - and this applies to any player who runs his contract down. 

From today's papers.

José Mourinho says he has told Marouane Fellaini to “shut up” and accept Manchester United’s contract offer before the seriousness of the midfielder’s knee injury is diagnosed.

The manager was smiling as he recounted the conversation but behind his jokingly delivered line to Fellaini appeared to lie a serious point. Fellaini’s deal ends on 1 July and the 30-year-old wants a sizeable increase on a salary thought to be around £120,000 a week. He suffered a knee problem that limited him to seven minutes as a substitute in Wednesday’s 2-0 defeat away to Tottenham.

“I told him yesterday: ‘Sign the contract and shut up,’” said Mourinho. “I told him: ‘Don’t gamble too much. Sign the contract before you know the extent of the injury.’

I have always felt that players are playing Russian Roulette when running contracts down.
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on February 04, 2018, 10:52:05 PM
Another draw that feels like a defeat, especially after twice being ahead.

That's both North London rivals for the top four that we should have put some more daylight between.

The flip side (hopefully) being only 2 points ahead of Spurs (and not the 5 we could have been after today), and therefore be able to be overtaken with just one slip, is that minds will remain focused.

I think the City win showed how this squad can lose focus and concentration, and now we're out of the FA Cup, they need to do everything possible to get second. The FA Cup and top four would have been reasonable, all things considered, but now fourth, or even third, isn't good enough with no trophy likely to arrive at Anfield again this season - does anyone honestly think we can win the European Cup? 
Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: the dude abides on February 05, 2018, 03:03:35 PM
I think we can go far in Europe.   Against top teams, it's a right old scrap....and anybodys' game.

Indeed, if the football authorities can be convinced to change games to last only 45 minutes - and/or allow more substitutes to be used, we can win everything every year.   8)

We bossed the first half - and Spurs bossed the second.  Same old story, we ran out of puff.

Really disappointed about the diving.  One of their lads got booked.  And the two penalties given, were not only offside, but both were simulations.  IMHO

The linesman and ref had poor games.   I thought we were lucky to even be given a kick-off.  First half, some of their tackles were crazy....but not a card in sight.  Poor day at the office for the officials.




Title: Re: Season 2017/18
Post by: Tes on February 18, 2018, 01:52:31 PM
I think we can go far in Europe.   

Especially if Porto are our opposition.  ;D

A good win, but they did walk through our midfield a little too easy early on.

Great to see Mane back amongst the goals.

I just hope our players don't react to this win like they did to the Man City one.