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Messages - Edward224

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We won't sign anyone in January and Ings and Sturridge will both leave. One on loan and one permanently.

We may sign an under 18 player...........but no first team players. Also City will sign Van Dijk.

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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« on: November 03, 2017, 07:04:31 PM »
Salah, Firmino and Milner have all missed pens this season!

Maybe it's time the Captain took them!

3
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« on: October 25, 2017, 07:42:02 PM »
Thing is, no matter what shape Klopp writes down on paper, ultimately in possession we will (or should) end up in something closely resembling 3-4-3 in our build up play.

The center backs split, Henderson drops and the full backs push up to give us width.

Off the ball, our shape is constantly changing dependant upon what we are doing and trying to achieve. Counter pressing the rule is that everyone can press except for the back 3.

I guess the question is whether off the ball it would be better for us to have 3 (or 5) players or 4. There is no simply answer really. It would force Klopp to narrow his tactical approach though.

His current system is a highly flexible system which changes continuously throughout the game to deal with the threats being faced. It will see us press passing lanes at times when using pressing traps - like how we saw with Pep's Barca. It will allow us to go man oriented when containing sides first and foremost, as we did against Sevilla. It allows us to use ball oriented pressing where we surround and suffocate the ball carrier where we have no discernible marking or team shape.

The problem with our system is it's complicated. Therefore it takes longer to learn and longer still to master. And of course while that learning process occurs, we look a shambles. It's why Chamberlain wont be featuring in our midfield until he understand things tactically enough to not be a liability in there. Stepping out at the wrong time, not knowing whether we are set up to press man, ball, space, passing lanes. Not knowing if he should track runners in a man oriented zonal system or whether he maintains shape.

Which means as it's failing now, we want to see it change. Rather than simply believing that this will take time (and maybe better players) to perfect. If the latter, do we change until we have those better players, which will mean moving back to it could be a longer learning process for them all. Or do we persevere and simply replace those who are not learning quick enough window to window.

I think as fans we only think and see short term. We have problems now. Therefore we want solutions now. That means seeing an actual tangible change of some description. Seeing that change = positive, the manager is pragmatic. Not seeing that change = stubborn, insane, how can persisting with this achieve different results? In reality maybe we just need to be patient. Because for us time is linear, we cannot see the destination until we arrive at it. I am sure there is a plan in place to get us from where we are now to where we want to be. Just because we cannot see it, feel it, touch it yet, doesn't make it less real. We just need to believe it's there.

If we set up more "conservatively" then we will likely face more attacks as well as have fewer ourselves. However it should be harder for sides to find spaces in our half to make good scoring chances from them. If you look at the games against Hoffenheim, Sevilla, Arsenal, and City - we did actually set up this way and look to counter. The problem becomes doing this against a side who won't push their shape into your half exposing themselves to counters and instead will happily only push their midfield line to half way then look to play for territory with aerial transitions. You then may still concede some scoring chances without actually getting much opportunity to have counter attacking moments yourself.

Klopp's system requires explosive players at full back who are strong in 1v1 encounters. We have seen this season how many goals have come from Gomez & TAA being beaten in 1-v-1 too easily (e.g. Albrighton for Leicester). Moreno has been excellent in 1-v-1's this season and his low center of gravity, pace and new found desire to stay on his feet is making him pretty solid for us there. Clyne is also excellent in 1-v-1 (except when Chamberlain destroyed him last year).

There is a reason at Dortmund Klopp would rotate out full backs and central/attacking midfielders when they hit 29 and have them gone entirely at 31 from the squad. Rangnick would start the replacement process even earlier in the mid 20's. A high pressing system requires a lot of pace, balance, agility and stamina. The first things to go with age.

Moreno/Robertson are going to be our left backs going forward, unless Moreno hugely regresses. Clyne/TAA are our right backs. Matip will get a chance with a reliable CB partner to find form. I suspect Karius will get a sustained chance to be #1 before Klopp writes him off. Like Matip, Gini will also get a chance in well balanced midfield. Coutinho, Mane, Salah, Firmino, Origi, Solanke, Chamberlain are a nice set of attacking options.

I think a starting #6 to replace Can, a starting CB to replace Lovren + Keita. Then the Karius we saw in the Bundesliga - or a new keeper if he cannot get to that level here when given the chance. Suspect that will be the next wave of changes we will see to the squad. Maybe Lemar (or other) for Coutinho if he leaves. Sturridge will be leave too I think.

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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« on: October 23, 2017, 07:14:42 PM »
I could see why Klopp looked at some players and thought there is a realistic possibility that they could kick on this season while approaching their peak years and show that after all the work he's done with them they would now be good enough for our ambitions - it would probably be the way he shows that not everything is about buying players.

However some of these players have gone the other way this season and I refuse to believe that a genuine winner like Klopp would make a mistake like Wenger and choose loyalty to these players instead of brutal desire to improve upon them as they were given more than enough chances to show they can do the job we hoped they could do.

It's clear now that this will be a transitional season in which we'll have time to identify players who could truly help our attack and make a genuine push for the title next season. We're not that far away if we show determination not to tolerate mediocrity of some of our defenders.

Surely the penny has dropped and Klopp will have to reevaluate some of his assessments.

5
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« on: October 23, 2017, 06:59:00 PM »
What us and our rivals have spent on defence in last two years:

City - £180m
Chelsea: £109m
Spurs - £71m
Utd - £61m
Liverpool - £12m (£0m on players that start)

When will you realise the problem is not Klopp but FSG.

I believe that Klopp has put too much faith in certain players in the belief that he can improve them. This has clearly failed.

He clearly wanted a centre back but it's not his fault the way we completely bombed the Van Dijk deal that lays squarely on FSG and Michael Edwards.

However the lack a plan to find an alternate is the fault of everyone at the club.

But look at our net spend and you'll soon realise that with £30m net spend in each of the past few seasons we can only go so far.

Hark back to Rafa (FSG will never hire Rafa btw and I mean never) all you want but he'd encounter the same issues in terms of net spend issues.

As said when we appointed Jurgen that he'd damage his reputation here and it is proven correct unfortunately. As long as FSG hold the purse strings we will continue to be a sell to buy club.

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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« on: October 08, 2017, 05:47:22 PM »
Klopp's Dortmund team was one of the most balanced teams around, so it isn't like he is a keegan like manager who just attacks, but he has seriously underestimated the ability of his defensive players.

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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« on: September 30, 2017, 11:47:10 AM »
Hey all,

Very frustrating stuff so far.

At the current rate we'll be conceding around 65-70 goals this season. We're too leaky at the back and not clinical enough up front and we have no midfielder with a defensive first mentality.

Tough game tomorrow but we should win and I hope Ox starts and Can is dropped.

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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« on: August 14, 2017, 07:56:34 PM »
With no further additions at best we'll finish 6th and at worst 8th or 9th.

We are light years behind both manc clubs and spurs in particular.

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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017
« on: August 14, 2017, 07:53:55 PM »
Don't worry haven't left, just been on holiday for a few weeks.

Depressed really. With this squad and especially this defence best we can hope for is 6th.

How can we not buy any freaking defenders?! Coutinho as well.............

IMO we'll sell Coutinho and have no incomings. Milner will be like a new signing in central midfield, Kent and Woodburn will replace Coutinho and other b.s. that will be fed to us.


10
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017
« on: July 21, 2017, 12:26:29 AM »
I can't see the point in upping the Keita bid by just £4M to £70M, as seems to be a mooted possibility.

Surely we either go to at least £75M, or just try and preserve a relationship with Red Bull, and attempt to get first refusal for next Summer, and at the same time move on to another target so we don't miss out all together.

Likewise with Van Dijk. Do we make one big effort and then move on if not successful?

If not, we risk being arguably weaker than last season with Lucas having left, unless Sakho gets a reprieve. Even then, we could do with upgrading Klavan, if not Lovren.

I feel we'll put in one last bid for both............I think we stand a better chance of getting Van Dijk though.

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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017
« on: July 20, 2017, 05:42:27 PM »
Looks like we're getting Robertson from Hull for £8-10M as our new left back.

Maybe he's the Plan B and the Plan A has yet to be revealed, or maybe Klopp plans to utilise Milner alongside Robertson for this season and look to upgrade next Summer as he sees the spine of the team, midfield and at least one central defender as more pressing an issue.

What worries me with lowering the importance of the full back positions this Summer, is that one of the ways we can tighten up defensively is to stop the supply from wide areas into the box, as that's a key area where we struggle to defend. Having a quality left back that doesn't get caught out of position, who is able to avoid giving away cheap free kicks in wide areas, likewise cheap corners and understands the importance of covering his centre half in behind and around the back, would help tighten up our defence to a worthwhile degree.

I'm not saying Robertson can't be that. He may well push on in his development and prove to be capable of providing what we need, it just feels like some positions are trying to be fixed 'on the cheap' in comparison to other positions, even taking into account the cost differential between certain positions.

Milner will still be our No.1 left back with Robertson pushing him.

With Stewart going the other way for £8m it's basically a free transfer, so can't complain for a decent, youngish player who has proven to be a good and potential to be very good left back for hardly not outlay.

People who I speak to say he reminds them of Steve Finnan a little bit, can't say I've seen enough of Robertson to judge that comparison though.

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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017
« on: June 24, 2017, 03:59:25 PM »
We're not contemplating Mbappe.......it is all paper talk. We have no interest.

Clichy is no better than Milner and Milner isn't even a proper left back which shows you how badly I think Clichy is, so I don't think he'd be a good signing. But it is worrying we're not looking to sign a top class left back.

Jurgen has tracked Keita for a lot longer than one year. He is Jurgen's Number 1 target signing and wants him badly. However I rate our chances of signing him at around 20%.

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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017
« on: June 22, 2017, 06:00:02 PM »
Thanks for that. I had no idea I was thinking that.  ;D

The point you make about Salah 'cutting in' was more to do with my liking for Lemar, as was having no need to cover for the AFCON absence of two players, as we're hoping both Mane and AN Other would be integral parts of the team by the AFCON of 2019.

Salah is left footed, but has predominantly played on the right cutting in, which he is less likely to do if played on the left as you suggest, hence a left footer, who plays on the left - Lemar.

Mane's right footed, so for them to both cut in, they'd have to switch sides, which is more likely to suit Salah, than Mane. That issue doesn't arise with Lemar.

Kent may be off to Bournemouth, especially if their £6M offer is genuine, but I'd add Harry Wilson and Sheyi Ojo to Woodburn. Solanke's an interesting one. He could prove to be a real shrewd buy, and will possibly lessen the need for an outright striking replacement should Sturridge go.

It would be nice to think we'll add at least one wide player to help soften the absences of our two AFCON absentees (Lemar would only leave one replacement required), but I'll wait until I see more evidence before hoping that would be the case.

Salah's time at Chelsea is irrelevant. As was suggested at the time, it was more a case of Mourinho stopping us getting him, than Mourinho actually wanting him to be a part of the 1st team in the same way he would have been with us.
He was hardly likely to displace Hazard or Willian, or even Schurle in Mourinho's thinking.
On that basis his time at Chelsea is no indicator of what he might do for us.

It'll be interesting to see how he fits in alongside Mane and if there is a compromise required from either player in terms of their most effective position. 

If I'm honest I don't think we'd necessarily target another striker if we did sell Sturridge. I think by targetting goalscoring wide players, who can play centrally at times, Klopp seems to be moving away from reliance on strikers as the goal supplier.

So. Gomez. Does he stay or go out on loan?

And what is your grapevine telling you about another centre half? Shirley that has to be a priority, no matter what happens to Gomez.

We have another 3 transfer windows  to think about cover for AFCON. So either the likes of Ojo and Woodburn Step up during that time or we will get another wide player in. I don't think that because he is African that specifically shouldn't dissuade us from signing one - if he is of high quality and he is.

I get your point about Salah normally plays in Mane's position but I feel that the free movement of that front line i.e. your point about not needing another striker as they can go central, is an important one.

I do hope Gomez does stay because I want to see how a fully fit Gomez does here and he can also cover in the full back roles too. So I'd definitely give him an opportunity.

I don't know about any names but seeing at the trouble we had of wanting a centre back in Van Dijk I do think Jurgen will attempt to buy one whether it is Van Dijk or not and I certainly think we need one.

What troubles me more is the lack of noise of any left backs coming in. Moreno is 99% definitely leaving. We've rejected an £11m offer from Napoli as we want £15m. I don't know why but he has plenty of suitors including 3 teams in the PL!!


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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017
« on: June 22, 2017, 05:47:49 PM »
A dilemma, indeed:

Mohamed Salah and the big dilemma Jurgen Klopp will need to solve at Liverpool

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/mohamed-salah-big-dilemma-jurgen-13220346

"Egyptian journalist Marwan Ahmed, who has followed Salah’s career closely, was adamant when he spoke to the ECHO about where Salah should play. “Right wing, that’s his best position," he said.

Despite being heavily left-footed, Salah prefers the right side to allow him to cut in and shoot off his stronger side. In his two seasons with Roma he has lined up on the left in just one game.
"

It's not really a dilemma though.

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Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017
« on: June 20, 2017, 06:11:50 PM »
Salah is a superb signing. Stop thinking of the player you saw at Chelsea and think his numbers and performances in the last 18 months.

He is even faster than Mane - FASTER!!!!!!!!!

He will play on the left side of the attack cutting in with Mane cutting in from the other side and they can alternate sides too which would also surprise defences.


Unless we sell Sturridge we are not after another striker.

I too like Lemar but he'd cost a lot more than £25m. I also get your point that both would be going to AFCON but we'll likely get another wide player next summer and also have the likes of Kent, Woodburn, Solanke etc that could cover us.

Salah is/was Klopp's Number 2 signing this summer. Keita is his first but that ain't happening.

Shame Klopp's other targets in Keita and Van Dijk are off the table. With those 3 and a left back and Salah I'm certain we'd have won the league.

Now I have my doubts we'll reach top 4.  But Salah is an excellent signing never the less. 

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