January 22, 2018, 06:14:43 PM

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91
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« Last post by the dude abides on October 24, 2017, 07:26:12 PM »


Incoming Liverpool midfielder Naby Keita is one of the best players Ralf Rangnick has ever worked with....with the RB Leipzig sporting director admitting he always knew the Reds would win the battle to sign him.

“He's one of the best I've worked with in 20 years of professional football,” Rangnick, who has worked with the likes of Liverpool pair Sadio Mane and Roberto Firmino and Bayern Munich’s David Alaba, told Kicker.

“I’d also prefer, 10 times, that we'd kept him for another five years - but we are just not able to pay salaries in excess of €10m.”
92
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« Last post by the dude abides on October 24, 2017, 12:49:32 PM »
Whilst all three mentioned made errors, I have a certain amount of sympathy with whoever plays at centre back or in goal. They're left exposed constantly.

they are being asked to do more than is sensible, and are in a position where they know everything they attempt is so crucial.

absolutely. 

with Klopp wanting our full-backs to be constantly supporting the attack it means crazy pressure on our two centrebacks, when the other side breaks.

being a Liverpool centreback, or keeper, must be one of the most thankless jobs in sport.

in my lifetime, I have never seen anything at Liverpool anywhere close to this defensive shambles.
93
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« Last post by Tes on October 24, 2017, 12:37:33 PM »
And Lovren does not deserve to be hung out to dry....nor Matip, nor Mignolet.   

Exactly. If you freeze frame any part of any of the goals on Sunday, you can count numerous issues and errors.

There is a situation in each goal where there is an error by an individual that could be termed as 'pivotal', but if everything else was functioning properly, either we wouldn't have got as far as the error being able to happen, or the error wouldn't be pivotal, as the structure would have been there to sort it straight after.

Whilst all three mentioned made errors, I have a certain amount of sympathy with whoever plays at centre back or in goal. They're left exposed constantly. Their job made far harder than it could be. Any error is made more glaring and has a far greater effect on things.
It's got to affect their mindset, and ultimately their confidence. The errors were bad and shouldn't have happened, but they are being asked to do more than is sensible, and are in a position where they know everything they attempt is so crucial. That can make them act in a way they otherwise wouldn't if they felt protected, helped, that things were more in control.
94
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« Last post by Tes on October 24, 2017, 12:21:56 PM »
I refuse to believe that a genuine winner like Klopp would make a mistake like Wenger and choose loyalty to these players instead of brutal desire to improve upon them as they were given more than enough chances to show they can do the job we hoped they could do.

That's your opinion. Equally valuable as anyone else's, no matter how they may differ, but just an opinion.

Any manager, no matter his track record, can make mistakes. It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that Klopp, like many others at the club, like the players on the pitch, has made mistakes, had errors of judgement, placed too much faith, or even hope, in players and outcomes.

It's no one person's fault. It's a collective failing, both off the pitch and on it.

Klopp is not entirely at fault, but he's hardly blameless too.
95
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« Last post by Tes on October 24, 2017, 12:12:28 PM »
Surely the penny has dropped and Klopp will have to reevaluate some of his assessments.

Klopp makes assessments, based on which Klopp makes decisions. Ergo, Klopp shares in the responsibility.

There's been more than enough mention of the likes of Edwards, Hunter and Fallows and the methods and model (if there is one) of recruitment, to make it clear that Klopp is not completely to blame, and change to the whole recruitment process is far more vital and pressing than any individual signing that may be required.

That can not be done without some sort of input from FSG, obviously, so we're aware, more than aware, of the culpability of FSG in the whole picture.

Looking at the evidence, it's hard to totally accept that Klopp indeed is in total control, and I mean he has the first and last say in everything to do with which positions need strengthening, the names of the targets required for said positions, how many, who leaves etc, etc.

Who's decision was it to spend at least £35M on Oxlade-Chamberlain, when we were woefully short of the required quality at centre back last season, and with Sakho being sold (again, who's decision was that) and Lucas being allowed to leave, doing nothing, spending nothing, would very obviously leave us in an even more precarious position.

There seems to be no willingness to spend money on the defence and defensive side of the team. Klopp has brought in 4 players on the defensive side of things, for a total spend, not even nett spend, of less than £20M.

£25M on Wijnaldum alone. More than on the defence in total.
96
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« Last post by Tes on October 24, 2017, 11:48:09 AM »
Things are bad.  Even Djimi Traore is having a go.    ??? ::) :P

Midway through the first half, Traore tweeted:

“No way you can win trophy with that defense, come on LFC wake up”.

That's class. The legend that is Djimi.

We just have to laugh, to find some light relief, otherwise we'll all go mad.
97
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« Last post by the dude abides on October 23, 2017, 09:05:57 PM »
What us and our rivals have spent on defence in last two years:

City - £180m
Chelsea: £109m
Spurs - £71m
Utd - £61m
Liverpool - £12m (£0m on players that start)

When will you realise the problem is not Klopp but FSG.

when we genuinely had bad owners, namely the Toxic Yanks, Rafa had peanuts to spend in his two final seasons.

2008/09 net spend: £2 and a half million

2009/10 net spend: £10,000  (that's right - ten thousand pounds net)

Jurgen, on the other hand, has had major money to spend. 

But he seems to only want to recruit offensive players.  And the one lad he brought in for the defence, for 10 million quid, looks as if he has been already judged as not good enough (that's what it feel like anyway, from the outside, looking in).

98
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« Last post by the dude abides on October 23, 2017, 08:44:55 PM »


Ex-Liverpool man Peter Gulacsi voted best keeper in Germany

FORMER Liverpool man Peter Gulacsi has been named best goalkeeper in the Bundesliga so far this season to heap yet more misery on Reds fans.

full story and video of saves at:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/654543/Liverpool-news-Peter-Gulacsi-best-goalkeeper-Bundesliga-saves-video
99
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« Last post by Edward224 on October 23, 2017, 07:14:42 PM »
I could see why Klopp looked at some players and thought there is a realistic possibility that they could kick on this season while approaching their peak years and show that after all the work he's done with them they would now be good enough for our ambitions - it would probably be the way he shows that not everything is about buying players.

However some of these players have gone the other way this season and I refuse to believe that a genuine winner like Klopp would make a mistake like Wenger and choose loyalty to these players instead of brutal desire to improve upon them as they were given more than enough chances to show they can do the job we hoped they could do.

It's clear now that this will be a transitional season in which we'll have time to identify players who could truly help our attack and make a genuine push for the title next season. We're not that far away if we show determination not to tolerate mediocrity of some of our defenders.

Surely the penny has dropped and Klopp will have to reevaluate some of his assessments.
100
Liverpool FC, football, sport / Re: Season 2017/18
« Last post by Edward224 on October 23, 2017, 06:59:00 PM »
What us and our rivals have spent on defence in last two years:

City - £180m
Chelsea: £109m
Spurs - £71m
Utd - £61m
Liverpool - £12m (£0m on players that start)

When will you realise the problem is not Klopp but FSG.

I believe that Klopp has put too much faith in certain players in the belief that he can improve them. This has clearly failed.

He clearly wanted a centre back but it's not his fault the way we completely bombed the Van Dijk deal that lays squarely on FSG and Michael Edwards.

However the lack a plan to find an alternate is the fault of everyone at the club.

But look at our net spend and you'll soon realise that with £30m net spend in each of the past few seasons we can only go so far.

Hark back to Rafa (FSG will never hire Rafa btw and I mean never) all you want but he'd encounter the same issues in terms of net spend issues.

As said when we appointed Jurgen that he'd damage his reputation here and it is proven correct unfortunately. As long as FSG hold the purse strings we will continue to be a sell to buy club.
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