Anfield Road - Liverpool FC Forum

Football and lesser sports => Liverpool FC, football, sport => Topic started by: barticus on September 13, 2010, 01:05:51 PM

Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on September 13, 2010, 01:05:51 PM
Birmingham 0 Liverpool 0

Thought we looked knackered yesterday....
not surprised to see Torres looking fragged as the night before i watched newly promoted Hercules murder Barca 2-0...10 of the Barca team were in Argentina on wednesday/thursday...as was Torres...reina was magnificent though...so maybe the previous was just an excuse...
Meirieles looked like a good signing and i'm hoping it was merely match fitness that he didnt play from the starts and lucas did...
bit of a pity that we didnt take full advantage of the man citeh, spurs and the manure slip ups...but there will be other times...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 13, 2010, 01:46:45 PM
I agree Barticus that the trip to Argentina did Torres no favours although thank God it didn't affect Pepe. Maybe Fernando flew economy and Pepe paid Business!  :D

I do hope we see Meirieles feature regularly. Lucas and Poulson are too defensively minded. I think it's about time RH moved Johnson to RW because he's far better employed there than RB. Bring in Kelly at RB instead.

I'm prepared to give Roy time to blend these players into a unit. It doesn't happen overnight and there's only so much you can do on the training pitch. I suppose Torres did get fedup with the lack of service and one outstanding dribble excepted he looked a shadow of the player from his first season.

I'm sure the ownership issue is affecting the players whatever they say. But look on the bright side. We have Joe Cole back for OT and I'm sure Meirieles will get a good run. Joe should give us some guile inmidfield. At with Utd leaking goals there's always a chance.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 13, 2010, 02:51:21 PM
It looks like Hodgson will be simply looking to keep a clean sheet and avoid defeat away from home and attempt to pick up the victories at Anfield.

I know he needs time, any new manager with a new collection of players does, but I feel he lacks the inclination to be more positive away from home.

I hope to eventually have the 'I wonder what things would have been like under Pellegrini' thought banished from my mind. I guess only time will tell.

We need more positivity in our play. We've always seen the best of the team when the shackles are off. The players look happier and more confident.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 13, 2010, 05:24:30 PM
I know he needs time, any new manager with a new collection of players does, but I feel he lacks the inclination to be more positive away from home.
He could have brought on Babel I thought. Given that he's thrown down the gauntlet to prove he's good enough it seemed a waste not to use him. But then again there's Thursday. He should get 90 mins.

I also feel he's being a little cautious Tes. probably aware of the magnitude of the task ahead of him and not wanting to drop any clangers. Can't say I blame him but hopefully we'll see a bit more adventure with Joe returning.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on September 13, 2010, 06:50:15 PM
Hopefully Roy sees that by not playing certain players, he's keeping in mind the certain game against Manure on sunday and that they get an extra 2 days rest than we do...that game is the most important for him so far and he'll be mindful of doing well...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 13, 2010, 10:08:41 PM
Hopefully Roy sees that by not playing certain players, he's keeping in mind the certain game against Manure on sunday and that they get an extra 2 days rest than we do...that game is the most important for him so far and he'll be mindful of doing well...

Conversely, which match gives us the best chance of 3 points, Birmingham away or the Mancs away? I'd have preferred to see us go for the points away at St Andrews and then if we'd gained a point at Salford then that would be a decent 8 days work.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on September 13, 2010, 10:21:56 PM
Jesus, but for Pepe Reina we would have been in trouble yesterday!!

Speaking objectively (and i hate to say it but) that midfield we had out yesterday is second-rate (appalling when I find myself agreeing with Andy Gray). Did Maxi touch the ball in the first half? I mean we used have Alonso and Mascherano??

Whatever, the thing that pissed me off was Glen Johnson FIXING HIS HAIR EVERYTIME HE FINISHED DOING WHATEVER HE WAS DOING......That's an absolute disaster from a Liverpool fan's perspective! Absolute disaster, like somehow his hair is the most important thing in his world! Unbelievable??

I agree Babel may have caused some mayhem in Birminghams defence late on leaving some space for Torres & Gerrard to exploit and his absence was perhaps symptomatic of a coach (I think he said as much himself!) happy with the point?

ASI i admire your patience! (I just needed to get the frustration I felt yesterday out of my system!).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 13, 2010, 10:32:02 PM
Quote
Whatever, the thing that p**sed me off was Glen Johnson FIXING HIS HAIR EVERYTIME HE FINISHED DOING WHATEVER HE WAS DOING......That's an absolute disaster from a Liverpool fan's perspective! Absolute disaster, like somehow his hair is the most important thing in his world! Unbelievable??
Excellent point Ed. It's about time he rid himself of the bloody thing. I don't care if he's a Rastifarian or what. Shankly would have given him short shrift. Reminds me of that Forest player which the pineapple haircut. The Kop chorused him with "what the effing hell is that???" Jason someone I think.
Quote
ASI i admire your patience! (I just needed to get the frustration I felt yesterday out of my system!).

I do get exasperated Ed when I see sideways and backward passing. Hopefully Roy does too and will say something about it. A week on Wednesday we entertain Northampton. I expect a cricket score. I shall be writing a strongly worded letter of complaint if it doesn't happen.  ::)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 13, 2010, 10:34:34 PM
Jesus, but for Pepe Reina we would have been in trouble yesterday!!

Speaking objectively (and i hate to say it but) that midfield we had out yesterday is second-rate (appalling when I find myself agreeing with Andy Gray). Did Maxi touch the ball in the first half? I mean we used have Alonso and Mascherano??

Whatever, the thing that p**sed me off was Glen Johnson FIXING HIS HAIR EVERYTIME HE FINISHED DOING WHATEVER HE WAS DOING......That's an absolute disaster from a Liverpool fan's perspective! Absolute disaster, like somehow his hair is the most important thing in his world! Unbelievable??

I agree Babel may have caused some mayhem in Birminghams defence late on leaving some space for Torres & Gerrard to exploit and his absence was perhaps symptomatic of a coach (I think he said as much himself!) happy with the point?

ASI i admire your patience! (I just needed to get the frustration I felt yesterday out of my system!).

'Listen to this man, for he speaks the truth'.  Ed, nevermind a trophy or even a regular league title challenge (two seasons running would suffice initially), when was the last time watching our football on a regular basis was enjoyable, even if the result didn't go our way? I feel your frustration.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 13, 2010, 10:36:57 PM
. Shankly would have given him short back and sides.

Sorry ASI, I couldn't resist.  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on September 14, 2010, 12:08:47 AM
Fair play guys for keeping the spirits up! because even a win against United would do nothing to alter my mood after what I saw yesterday!

Tes, I think under Rafa in Europe my expectations regarding our style of play were lowered considerably. To be fair to him, for a while, the results in the Champions League were up there with the best! At the moment I'm not fussed about it because it's not going to happen overnight but I think that every Liverpool team should display character!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 14, 2010, 01:26:07 AM
It will only be fair to judge Roy when the full season is out, when hes had a chance to stamp his authority on the team and when the ownership curse is finally past us all.

That said I think this is a very worthwhile thread for us to comment on the various ups and downs of match day as the season progresses.

What worries me to date about our performances is that they are still Benitez-esque. The tactics are Benitez-esque, the ethos of not wanting to lose against the likes of Birmingham instead of going all out to win is again Benitez-esque. I was a Benitez fan but feel one of his failings was his negative approach. So if it hasnt worked for Rafa who excelled tactically then I dont see this style of play Hodgson is adopting working or being accepted by the Liverpool fans.

Hodgson needs to step out from Rafa's shadow and be his own man. I castigated him for the tactics during the Man City game but in the same breath I said he should be given time and a fair crack of the whip. Roy should be using this time to find what tactics suit us best, for giving the players freedom to attack. This is the time to be making those positive substitutions, bring on Babel and Pacheco to win a game. Its now that fans will afford him the chances to make the mistakes necessary to make this team not only successful but capable of playing decent attacking football.

If 6 months down the line we're sitting in 6th or 7th place and still churning out the same standard of football Roys days will be numbered. It will have nothing to do with money spent or the players that have left the club but everything to do with not having the courage to change the ethos of going out not to lose a game first and attempting to win at all costs second. For LFC thats just not good enough.

I like what Roys done off the field up to now, his signings, the way he deals with the media, his frank approach to interviews all refreshing compared to the way Rafa dealt with situations over this last year.  All that said the main thing is whether Roys is up to the job on the pitch. What I have seen so far raises more questions than it does give answers, formations, player selection, tactics and substitutions and general ability to get the team to play have all looked dubious to say the least. The board may have appointed him to steady the ship but unless he grasps this opportunity to change the way we go about playing the game then Roy could very well be the first casualty when a regime change finally happens at the club.
 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 14, 2010, 03:07:40 PM
Quote
Sorry ASI, I couldn't resist.  :D
It crossed my mind too Tes.  :D It was Jason Lee who had the pineapple haircut.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 14, 2010, 03:13:58 PM
Juan,

You make many excellent points. I too want to see more of Babel and Pacheco. Maybe they'll feature more in European games.

What I will say is this. We've only had 40 minutes of Joe Cole in the league this season and our performance against Arsenal without Torres was pretty good especially in defence. I suppose some of that will be down to Masch who played an excellent last game for us.

But we've yet to see Cole and Torres together and I think that will help a lot. Also Meirieles should feature heavily this season so I'm going to reserve opinion until they've had a few games together.

You have to stay optimistic whatever happens. At least we're probably seeing out the last days of H&G. That has to be positive.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 14, 2010, 05:31:33 PM
Replacing one of Skrtel or Carra with Agger would improve our possession and attacking play.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 14, 2010, 05:45:34 PM
Quote
What I will say is this. We've only had 40 minutes of Joe Cole in the league this season and our performance against a*senal
Blimey! Jim's swear filter is a bit keen isn't it?  :o
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 15, 2010, 12:02:36 PM
Blimey! Jim's swear filter is a bit keen isn't it?  :o

I guess from now on we'll have to refer to them as Assenal. What about Arsene (Wenger)? Does that become Assene?  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 15, 2010, 12:07:33 PM
I guess from now on we'll have to refer to them as Assenal. What about a*sene (Wenger)? Does that become Assene?  :D

And it keeps changing the 'A' in Arsene to an 'a' also. (It's done it again)  >:(

The 'Nanny State' has us well and truly clutched to it's bosom.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 15, 2010, 04:36:29 PM
I agree ASI, personally I'd start Babel and Pacheco in Europe.

Pacheco could really be a gem but I think he needs to be tested now. If hes good enough hes old enough as Jack Wilshire, Rooney, Owen have all proved to date.

Regards Babel I wish someone would just give him that chance they keep talking about giving him. Rafa always said he would get his chance and Roy has followed on from where Rafa left off. Yet I have never seen Babel be given what I would call a chance, that is 10 or more games up front. 5 minutes here and 10 minutes there or 45 on the wing will prove nothing, except maybe that Babels not a winger. Rafa had the opportunity last year when Torres was injured but never trusted him.

Roys recently said Babels got to prove himself by January. He cant really do that if hes sitting on the bench. In Europe his first half goal was rewarded by being subbed at half time.

But hopefully your right ASI, with Cole coming back , Konchesky and Meireles coming into the team things will hopefully get better although I still think Roys work is most needed on finding the right tactics to win while playing the type of football the fans deserve.

On a quick note I was shocked by Rangers fluid pass and move football against United last night. They kept the ball well, played intricate passes, worked tireless for each other and looked very comfortable. They may not have had the personnel to scare United but I thought they did very well. There was none of these long hoofs from defense we so used to seeing at Anfield and on our travels these days.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 15, 2010, 05:02:12 PM
Replacing one of Skrtel or Carra with Agger would improve our possession and attacking play.

This is probably a touchy subject to raise and I probably risk offending anybody from Liverpool.

I will be frank, basically I think Tes touches on it above but I no longer believe Carragher is up to the task of commanding a guaranteed spot at the centre of our defense.  He may be a Liverpool legend and I dont think his time is up but at this point in time I would prefer to see Agger and Skrtel being our main stay central defensive pairing. Defensively Carra can still do a good job, hes well able for the bruising encounters, putting his body on the line and all that. But its his lack of pace and distribution that I think is affecting our game. When Johnson gets forward our defence gets exposed. Carra was never the quickest but his ability to cover any sizeable ground has diminished and our defence leaks. Play Carra against Stoke and he could batter Kenwyne Jones into submission but against the quicker players he gets glaringly exposed.

His distribution is terrible. When Carras in the team these days all he tends to do is punt the ball long. Time after time this season Ive seen him launch balls up for our striker to challenge for but 90% of the time possession is lost. Thats not the type of service Torres will thrive on.

Last year I thought he had a mediocre if not poor season by his standards. I know others thought he was on the top of his game. I worry that its because hes Mr Liverpool that hes being kept in the team, I genuinely think Roy is afraid to leave him out.

Apparently hes been offered a new 3 year contract. Its great to know that he will get to finish his career at the club he loves but 3 years is a long time to be giving someone whos careers on the wane. Rafa had let his contract run down, there is no way Carra would have got 3 years had Rafa remained.

I think Roy needs to make tough decisions to make this team work, for me leaving out Carra is one of those tough choices that Roy needs to call. Last season Rafa put his own job on the line by constantly hauling off Torres and wrapping him in cotton wool to the bemusement of the player himself. For the benefit of the team and for the risk of been unpopular with Carra himself I think Roy needs to man up do whats right for the team or risk having his leaky defence and eventually possibly going the same way Rafa did when new owners come in.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: wittsy on September 16, 2010, 12:08:13 AM
Juan I agree, I said at the the beginning of last season that Carra needed to be eased out for the younger players to form some sort of relationship. It really needs to happen this year, his bad form at the beginning of the season last year was part of the problem why we so poor for the first couple of months and there was no way back by November/December (OK he was far from the only problem).

Jas
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 16, 2010, 05:36:58 PM
If he's to be offered a 3 year contract  :o, then it needs to be a player/coach one. That way he can be eased out 'more smoothly' whilst having another job to learn / occupy his mind.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 16, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
Juan I agree, I said at the the beginning of last season that Carra needed to be eased out for the younger players to form some sort of relationship. It really needs to happen this year, his bad form at the beginning of the season last year was part of the problem why we so poor for the first couple of months and there was no way back by November/December (OK he was far from the only problem).

Jas

Its not something I like calling for but I think it would be for the good of the team. As you say Jas start to ease him out now.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 16, 2010, 05:59:25 PM
If he's to be offered a 3 year contract  :o, then it needs to be a player/coach one. That way he can be eased out 'more smoothly' whilst having another job to learn / occupy his mind.

Definitely he should get a coaching role at some point. He lives football and could eventually make a top manager. Who knows maybe he will eventually be the manager that wins us number 19.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 16, 2010, 07:10:41 PM
Quote
agree ASI, personally I'd start Babel and Pacheco in Europe.

Pacheco could really be a gem but I think he needs to be tested now. If hes good enough hes old enough as Jack Wilshire, Rooney, Owen have all proved to date.

Regards Babel I wish someone would just give him that chance they keep talking about giving him. Rafa always said he would get his chance and Roy has followed on from where Rafa left off. Yet I have never seen Babel be given what I would call a chance, that is 10 or more games up front. 5 minutes here and 10 minutes there or 45 on the wing will prove nothing, except maybe that Babels not a winger. Rafa had the opportunity last year when Torres was injured but never trusted him.

Roys recently said Babels got to prove himself by January. He cant really do that if hes sitting on the bench. In Europe his first half goal was rewarded by being subbed at half time.

But hopefully your right ASI, with Cole coming back , Konchesky and Meireles coming into the team things will hopefully get better although I still think Roys work is most needed on finding the right tactics to win while playing the type of football the fans deserve.
Hi Juan, well you've got half your wish. Here's the team for tonight's game:-

The Liverpool team in full: Reina, Kelly, Konchesky, Kyrgiakos, Agger, Babel, Maxi, Meireles, Spearing, Ngog, Cole. Subs: Jones, Johnson, Lucas, Carragher, Pacheco, Shelvey, Eccleston.

Not sure how that works out on the pitch but with Babel and Ngog in attacking positions it shows real intent. A start for Meireles too and with the return of Joe Cole the midfield looks really good. And a couple of local lads in their too. Excellent!
[On a quick note I was shocked by Rangers fluid pass and move football against United last night. They kept the ball well, played intricate passes, worked tireless for each other and looked very comfortable. They may not have had the personnel to scare United but I thought they did very well. There was none of these long hoofs from defense we so used to seeing at Anfield and on our travels these days. [/quote]I was convinced Utd would score but really pleased to see Rangers hang on for a point. Apparently they had more attempts on goal than Utd. Strange things statistics. Utd being their usual arrogant self think they can win with the second 11!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 16, 2010, 07:54:52 PM
Hi Juan, well you've got half your wish. Here's the team for tonight's game:-

The Liverpool team in full: Reina, Kelly, Konchesky, Kyrgiakos, Agger, Babel, Maxi, Meireles, Spearing, Ngog, Cole. Subs: Jones, Johnson, Lucas, Carragher, Pacheco, Shelvey, Eccleston.

Not sure how that works out on the pitch but with Babel and Ngog in attacking positions it shows real intent. A start for Meireles too and with the return of Joe Cole the midfield looks really good. And a couple of local lads in their too. Excellent!
[On a quick note I was shocked by Rangers fluid pass and move football against United last night. They kept the ball well, played intricate passes, worked tireless for each other and looked very comfortable. They may not have had the personnel to scare United but I thought they did very well. There was none of these long hoofs from defense we so used to seeing at Anfield and on our travels these days. I was convinced Utd would score but really pleased to see Rangers hang on for a point. Apparently they had more attempts on goal than Utd. Strange things statistics. Utd being their usual arrogant self think they can win with the second 11!

Hey ASI, I may have got half my wish but I'll never be happy  ;). To be honest I would prefer to see Babel up front. If Hodsgon said he was going to play him in his position I dont see the point in sticking him on the wing. Hes never done well out there but for some reason thats where he gets played. Ngog wouldnt play well out there so I'm not sure why Babel is expected to.

Otherwise it is good to see the premier league being prioritised for a change and for some of the fringe players to get a run.

If Pacheco got a good amount of time and Babel gets a run at some stage up front then I will be happy with tonights game. I hope!  ;)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 16, 2010, 10:36:41 PM
Duplicate post.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 16, 2010, 10:38:46 PM
Quote
Hey ASI, I may have got half my wish but I'll never be happy  ;) . To be honest I would prefer to see Babel up front. If Hodsgon said he was going to play him in his position I dont see the point in sticking him on the wing. Hes never done well out there but for some reason thats where he gets played. Ngog wouldnt play well out there so I'm not sure why Babel is expected to.

Otherwise it is good to see the premier league being prioritised for a change and for some of the fringe players to get a run.

If Pacheco got a good amount of time and Babel gets a run at some stage up front then I will be happy with tonights game. I hope!  ;)
Well Juan, I imagine you're pleased after tonight's game. Don't know if you watched it or not. Babel was rather quiet and hasn't enhanced his chances of a game on Sunday. But I thought Kelly, Spearing, Ngog and Cole were our best performers tonight. Nice goal from Joe after 25 seconds and a cracker from Lucas a couple of minutes after coming on for Babel. Who would have thought it!

Definite signs of a team gelling under Roy and it should give the senior players a boost watching the second 11 perform so well. Meirles had some nice touches but needs more games. The game was played at a good pace with some good movement. Their goal was well taken and they had the better of the first half but after the break we dominated.

Next stop - Old Toilet! :-)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 17, 2010, 12:47:57 AM
Well Juan, I imagine you're pleased after tonight's game. Don't know if you watched it or not. Babel was rather quiet and hasn't enhanced his chances of a game on Sunday. But I thought Kelly, Spearing, Ngog and Cole were our best performers tonight. Nice goal from Joe after 25 seconds and a cracker from Lucas a couple of minutes after coming on for Babel. Who would have thought it!

Definite signs of a team gelling under Roy and it should give the senior players a boost watching the second 11 perform so well. Meirles had some nice touches but needs more games. The game was played at a good pace with some good movement. Their goal was well taken and they had the better of the first half but after the break we dominated.

Next stop - Old Toilet! :-)

A much improved second half. To be honest I thought we were very poor first half. Aside from coles well taken goal there wasnt much to cheer about. Second half we definitely up the ante and as you say even Lucas got a goal. Unfortunately thats his place sealed in the team for the next 6 months. As i say ASI i'm never happy.

Meireles was more comfortable after the break. He looks as if he could be a very good signing in time.

A good score line, great to see some of the fringe payers involved and making a worthwhile contribution. My only concern is that Hodgson has the team set up very much like Rafa, time will tell whether he changes that.

Not a bad warm up for sunday.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on September 17, 2010, 01:14:50 AM
Much Improved with respect to moving the ball forward!!!!

I'd say the big difference between Lucas and Babel is mental toughness (and an ability to improve their game  :'(). Babel seems to be brittle in that department and although arguably a fine athlete, in my opinion he also lacks a footballing brain. The only way that lad can improve his game is if he develops his upper body strength so that he can hold off defenders (and muscle his way through) and therefore compensate for feet which always seem to get stuck under the ball, no dribbling ability and a mind that's never really sure which direction he's going in? :-[

What cheered me up tonight was the impression that players like Agger, Meireles and Cole want to be on the ball and move things forward. Early to say but Meireles appears to have magic feet full of smoothness and guile and rather than Gerrard (everything 90 miles an hour and always trying the impossible  ::) ) seems perfect for the centre (creative attacking) with Lucas or Poulsen holding?



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on September 17, 2010, 07:24:16 AM
Agreed ASI, Juan and Ed....good result considering steaua are no mugs...
the best thing about the game, apart from the pretty good 2nd half performance was it put the 'first team' on notice that they'd better play well all the time...or they'll be out...like liverpool of old with no favourites...
nice to see ngog begin to gain confidence, thought spearing and merieles were pretty good...kelly also wasnt out of place and can only grow with confidence...with the youngsters actually playing this then also sends messages to the reserves who if they also up their game might get a look in as well...
glad cole can play in the league again...cos on tonights performance he added a little bit of difference and excellence to us...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: subsy on September 17, 2010, 11:59:41 PM
Did anyone notice the commentary slip up after Joe scored at 'arsenal' instead of anfield :doh:
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 18, 2010, 01:15:40 AM
Kelly has looked like a regular first team player every game he has played for us and considering he's supposedly a centre half is no mean feat.

In the past under Rafa, when we've had a second string out, who you would think would be trying to prove a point to the manager, anything but always happened. It's good to see that players now seem motivated to prove a point to the manager, as though it actually makes a difference and they feel there is a chance of their effort being rewarded.

Good to see us come through a sticky patch at the end of the first half and come out looking a better team after half time. Congratulations to the manger and coaching staff for that.

Felt sorry for Babel getting a chance but yet again not as a central striker. I thought he put in a shift despite the position he was being played in.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on September 19, 2010, 12:31:00 PM
great result against Steau.

And by eck, the sky didn't fall in when we had no captain marvel in our team.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on September 19, 2010, 03:41:55 PM
overrun in the middle of the park (nothing new there).  Scholes ran the show.

and our defence.....what a shambles.  Who would you consider worst - johnston, carragher or konckesky?  Where do you even start with a defence like that.  More holes than a mafia victim.

the first goal - grrrrr......useless defending.

similar for the third goal.

Roy is a gentleman, someone you want to succeed in life.

But I'm sorry, he is tactically nowhere near the quality of Rafa.  We are gonna struggle away from home.  He doesn't have the tactics I fear.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: wittsy on September 19, 2010, 03:50:20 PM
After a dire 25 minutes we really started to improve against UTD and then they got the first goal, must say I thought we would have collapsed but we came back harder after HT. Second half was the best we've played this season IMO. Meireles looks a very good player so far, really looking forward to seeing him through the rest of the season. Gerrard started looking like an attacking threat again and even Torres lifted his head a bit more as the game went on.

If we can carry that on for a few games we'll get some wins and much needed points in the bag, not perfect but getting better. Still think they should have been down to 10 men but can't complain too much.

We lost 3-2 but to be honest I'm happyish with that, Berda was great (god that hurts) but we atleast looked a side who wanted to win again and that is a good result to me on passed performances.

Jas
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: wittsy on September 19, 2010, 04:02:06 PM
Dude raise some good points there, our defense will never be strong with Johnson  and (I hate to say this) Carra in the side. Johnson just doesn't understand how to defend, he must surely be used as a winger not wing back. Carra just isn't as quick or as sharp these days and will always be the week link at the back, teams aim for him every game these days. Thought Koncheski ? was not to bad and atleast closes players down unlike Johnson.

Our midfield are starting to form some good passing and I'm confident if we use the three we had today with Lucas used for resting players we will get there. Would still like to see one holding MF and Gerrard, Meireles, Cole etc used infront of Poulson.

I think we will fight for 4th by the end of the season but whether we get it is another story.

Jas
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 19, 2010, 04:23:54 PM
Having gone 2-0 down our heads could have dropped but I thought we showed some character to come back the way we did. Two forwards against Man Utd at OT? It was a brave decision (one Rafa wouldn't have taken) and it almost worked.

If we hadn't dropped off and tried to defend after coming back to 2-2 we could have nicked it. Every goal conceded can be attributed to a defensive mistake. We kept Rooney quiet and if Berbatov hadn't played a blinder we could have come away with a draw or even 3 points.

It's the first time Meireles and Cole have played together and I thought they did okay. And given we've now played Arsenal, City and Manure in 5 games no-one has had a harder start. With 2 home games against lower-rated sides to come we should progress up the table nicely.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 19, 2010, 04:41:33 PM
Wittsy I commend you for being able to give the glass half full outlook but I cant take many positives from that game.

There were more negatives than anything else. In fact that score line completely flattered us and almost suggests we were deserving of something.

Most of the team was poor. Johnson as usual was exposed at right back, what is the point in having a defender that can get forward if he cant defend. I agree he needs to be pushed up to right wing and get someone more solid in at right back. Johnson was skinned by Giggs at one point whos about 12 years older.

Konchesky was shown up for being exactly what he is, a mid table player. Nanny ran rings around him and exposed his lack of pace. And his position on the goal line for Berbatovs first goal was amateurish. Why stand directly behind your keeper and not on the post. If hes on the post that ball is easily headed off the line. What did he expect the ball to come through Reinas hands?

Defensively I saved the best for last. Carragher is living on borrowed time. Two goals were potentially his fault. The third hes out muscled and out jumped by Berbatov. The second was a super finish by Berbatov but if you watch it again Carragher gave him all the time in the world. Had Carragher been tight and made his presence felt there is no way Berbatov is controlling that ball and flicking it over his head.

Aside from a 10 - 15 minute period in the second half after going 2 down I thought we were appalling again today.

The sad part about it is that I dont think United were that much better aside from Berbatov and maybe Nani ( diving c*nt).

Reina looks shot of confidence, Cole drifted in and out of the game. Maxi was anonymous. Meireles looks he could be a good addition when he gets going. Nando is living on scraps. His body language looks to be one of a player thats not happy. Saying that the two half chances he was presented with he won us a penalty and won the free kick for the second ( if Webb had balls he would have sent John O'shea off there).

Gerrard does what he always does, steps up when it matters.

Judging Roy on a game by game basis this was once again an occasion where his team didnt perform and they looked a mile off the pace. Its the same old story setting up a team not to lose than sending out a team to win. united were there for the taking but it was only when we were two goals down did he decide to make the team open up and play.

On the away games so far this season you can possibly see why Fulham recorded two wins in two seasons on their travels.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 19, 2010, 04:52:29 PM
Maxi was anonymous.

With no World Cup squad place to play for, I think that's what we'll get from all season now. I was hopeful that with the other technical players, Torres, Gerrard, Cole and Meireles all in the team, we'd see something more from him than we've seen so far this season. Back to his Atletico form.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 19, 2010, 05:02:00 PM
With no World Cup squad place to play for, I think that's what we'll get from all season now. I was hopeful that with the other technical players, Torres, Gerrard, Cole and Meireles all in the team, we'd see something more from him than we've seen so far this season. Back to his Atletico form.

He has shown very little for us since signing from Athletico.

At the time it was a no brainer, little or no transfer fee. 8 months in to his time at Liverpool though hes not producing the kind of form i had hoped. I'm not sure he will either
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on September 19, 2010, 06:00:19 PM
Quote from: Juan on Today at 04:41:33 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4012.msg16458#msg16458)
<blockquote>Defensively I saved the best for last........The second was a super finish by Berbatov but if you watch it again Carragher gave him all the time in the world. Had Carragher been tight and made his presence felt there is no way Berbatov is controlling that ball and flicking it over his head.

good point, Juan.

And you have to ask why Berbatov had the nerve to even try that manoeuvre. 

I used to play upfront and I tried that same type of thing on a couple of occasions.   Well actually mine was more like Gazza's flick over the Scottish defender in euro 96.  Back to defender, dink the ball over his head.....run round the far side of him, and volley the ball at the goal.  Though, unlike Gazza, both my efforts hit the bar.

But I tried it because I noted that the particular defender, in both instances, was giving me more space than he should have been.  He wasn't getting tight. 

And I suspect that is what happened today.  The United striker saw Carra was not getting tight enough and that encouraged him to try his flick for the second goal.



Gerrard does what he always does, steps up when it matters.

I thought Gerrard was very poor.  United bossed the middle of the park.  Thus we were overrun the whole time.  Scholes was exceptional.


</blockquote>
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on September 19, 2010, 08:20:40 PM
weak defending on all 3 berbatov goals...though the 2nd was class...but still closer marking would have made the difference...should be skrtel and agger in central def....sorry carra but you aint doing it...step up...can we clone tommy smith?? skrtel might look like he could eat your liver but he didnt act it...the whole team need to be shown a leeds game in the 70's and even if they can get to be as 20% harsh then at least it'll be an improvement...
john oshea should have gone though...
evans push in 1st half...penalty? seen em given...
but hey...it's the theatre of dreamsTM
and carra nearly gave one too....
konchesky looked snail like tbh....

maxi was no use whatsoever....enough of this 'he plays for the argies' so what...why not play johnson there?...as he's no defender...17 mil hideously spent...
can't understand why aquilani went to juve, he surely would have been some use...plain weird...
meireles looks good...needs a few games to settle...as does poulson...2 of the few positives...

torres looked better but needs backup....sick to death of him being a lone striker ...even when we're linked with another striker its to replace torres if injured...surely to feck we can play a different system than rafa's...
we looked completely different when maxi went off and ngog came on to back up torres...4-4-2

we have until nov 7th and chelsea to start playing that system...home and away...feck naivety we're getting walloped anyways....

is it me....or am i enjoying the europa league team more than i am the 'proper' squad?

   
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 19, 2010, 08:39:20 PM
is it me....or am i enjoying the europa league team more than i am the 'proper' squad?

Bart, it's funny, I was thinking exactly the same the other night. It was refreshing to see all 11 players looking like they cared and were determined to make an impression on the manager.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on September 19, 2010, 09:53:10 PM
overrun in the middle of the park (nothing new there).  Scholes ran the show.

and our defence.....what a shambles.  Who would you consider worst - johnston, carragher or konckesky?  Where do you even start with a defence like that.  More holes than a mafia victim.

the first goal - grrrrr......useless defending.

similar for the third goal.

Roy is a gentleman, someone you want to succeed in life.

But I'm sorry, he is tactically nowhere near the quality of Rafa.  We are gonna struggle away from home.  He doesn't have the tactics I fear.

Yeah, you know it's a huge step backward when Gerrard assumes the saviour role, like watching reruns of the A-team and then going off to fight in Iraq....
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 20, 2010, 02:57:06 PM
Quote from: Juan on Today at 04:41:33 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4012.msg16458#msg16458)
<blockquote>Defensively I saved the best for last........The second was a super finish by Berbatov but if you watch it again Carragher gave him all the time in the world. Had Carragher been tight and made his presence felt there is no way Berbatov is controlling that ball and flicking it over his head.

good point, Juan.

And you have to ask why Berbatov had the nerve to even try that manoeuvre. 

I used to play upfront and I tried that same type of thing on a couple of occasions.   Well actually mine was more like Gazza's flick over the Scottish defender in euro 96.  Back to defender, dink the ball over his head.....run round the far side of him, and volley the ball at the goal.  Though, unlike Gazza, both my efforts hit the bar.

But I tried it because I noted that the particular defender, in both instances, was giving me more space than he should have been.  He wasn't getting tight. 

And I suspect that is what happened today.  The United striker saw Carra was not getting tight enough and that encouraged him to try his flick for the second goal.



Gerrard does what he always does, steps up when it matters.

I thought Gerrard was very poor.  United bossed the middle of the park.  Thus we were overrun the whole time.  Scholes was exceptional.


</blockquote>

I thought there were alot worse than Gerrard dude. I think hes normally head and shoulders above everyone else and yesterday was no different for me. And it helps when he manages to score 2 goals. Granted I know he takes penalties but 9 times out 10 he has the bottle to score them and yesterday was no different. And that free kick was sublime. I'm not sure there are many other players in the team even capable of striking a decent free kick.

Our defense and attack are major problems. Our defensive frailty is even rubbing off on Reina who at times looks uncharacteristically unsure. Birmingham he was his brilliant self but yesterday I thought he was below average. Thing is though hes not getting much help from his defense.

The sooner Roy stops playing players because of reputations, ie Carragher and the sooner he accepts players flaws the sooner we can progress. Johnsons not a right back, well a very good one anyway.

We dont have a bad squad. It may not be championship winning squad but its not as bad as we have seen to date either. I wont accept the excuse of the ownership from Roy anymore. Thats the easy way out. He has a squad at his disposal capable of challenging for a CL spot but not if they keep playing the way they have been. As always Roy will get the time he deserves but for me he has to start giving us more than what we have got to date.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 20, 2010, 04:42:16 PM
After Fergies attack on Torres I hope Roy has the balls to come out and defend Nando.

Who is Fergie to call Torres a cheat when Nani dived looking for a penalty to win the game.

How Fergie is allowed to get away with comments like that is beyond me and I hope roy puts his friendship with Fergie to one side and slates Fergie for being a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 20, 2010, 06:14:12 PM
Finally Henry Winter say's what I've been saying for some time. This concludes his report on the game...

Liverpool's new manager could do worse than consider pushing up Glen Johnson up the right and looking at Martin Kelly at full-back.


Bloody hell. I must be better than I thought!  ;D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 20, 2010, 06:32:40 PM
Finally Henry Winter say's what I've been saying for some time. This concludes his report on the game...

Liverpool's new manager could do worse than consider pushing up Glen Johnson up the right and looking at Martin Kelly at full-back.


Bloody hell. I must be better than I thought!  ;D

It definitely makes sense ASI. Johnson is a poor defender or at least has been for us up to now. Look at how Gareth Bales career has been transformed.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 20, 2010, 06:56:11 PM
It definitely makes sense ASI. Johnson is a poor defender or at least has been for us up to now. Look at how Gareth Bales career has been transformed.
Excellent comparison Juan. I'll stick my neck out and say it will happen before Christmas but earlier would be good.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 20, 2010, 08:05:19 PM
Not good when possibly your top defender is already having a veiled dig at the manager.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6390796,00.html


Agger won't alter style
Reds defender vows to defy Hodgson and carry on playing football

By Chris Burton   Last updated: 20th September 2010
Agger won't alter style

Daniel Agger on Roy Hodgson

Daniel Agger finds himself out of favour at Liverpool, but insists he will not be changing his ways.

The Danish defender was overlooked for the Reds' 0-0 draw at Birmingham and was only awarded a late cameo in their 3-2 defeat to Manchester United on Sunday.

A lack of activity has left him frustrated, with new boss Roy Hodgson currently favouring other options.

Agger believes the former Fulham boss continues to snub him because his game does not suit the new-look Liverpool.

The 25-year-old feels his desire to play the ball out from the back is counting against him.
Philosophy

He will not be altering his style any time soon, though, even it means sticking life out on the Anfield bench.

"The manager's philosophy is that we play football in attack, but not at the back. That's not my style," Agger told Sporten.dk.

"I'm not that type of player. I like to keep the ball on the ground, and that's what I'll keep doing. Time will show if he [Hodgson] doesn't want to play me because of that.

"I'll try to change myself, but I will never be a player who offloads the ball at every opportunity.

"I'll fight for my chance. I know what I stand for, and I think he [Hodgson] does too."
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 20, 2010, 09:23:32 PM
Finally Henry Winter say's what I've been saying for some time. This concludes his report on the game...

Liverpool's new manager could do worse than consider pushing up Glen Johnson up the right and looking at Martin Kelly at full-back.


Bloody hell. I must be better than I thought!  ;D

ASI, the journos catch on eventually (given enough time).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 20, 2010, 09:51:49 PM
Not good when possibly your top defender is already having a veiled dig at the manager.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6390796,00.html


Agger won't alter style
Reds defender vows to defy Hodgson and carry on playing football

By Chris Burton   Last updated: 20th September 2010
Agger won't alter style

Daniel Agger on Roy Hodgson

Daniel Agger finds himself out of favour at Liverpool, but insists he will not be changing his ways.

The Danish defender was overlooked for the Reds' 0-0 draw at Birmingham and was only awarded a late cameo in their 3-2 defeat to Manchester United on Sunday.

A lack of activity has left him frustrated, with new boss Roy Hodgson currently favouring other options.

Agger believes the former Fulham boss continues to snub him because his game does not suit the new-look Liverpool.

The 25-year-old feels his desire to play the ball out from the back is counting against him.
Philosophy

He will not be altering his style any time soon, though, even it means sticking life out on the Anfield bench.

"The manager's philosophy is that we play football in attack, but not at the back. That's not my style," Agger told Sporten.dk.

"I'm not that type of player. I like to keep the ball on the ground, and that's what I'll keep doing. Time will show if he [Hodgson] doesn't want to play me because of that.

"I'll try to change myself, but I will never be a player who offloads the ball at every opportunity.

"I'll fight for my chance. I know what I stand for, and I think he [Hodgson] does too."

But it's very hard to disagree with him.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 20, 2010, 11:47:37 PM
After Fergies attack on Torres I hope Roy has the balls to come out and defend Nando.

Who is Fergie to call Torres a cheat when Nani dived looking for a penalty to win the game.

How Fergie is allowed to get away with comments like that is beyond me and I hope roy puts his friendship with Fergie to one side and slates Fergie for being a hypocrite.

Simply ignore the old fool. He makes himself look so stupid especially after Nani's theatrics in the same game.
I don't think he gets away with it, more a case of it's so old that nobody cares any more.

I'd prefer Hodgson to concentrate his mind fully on our problems rather than respond to idiocy.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 21, 2010, 04:04:26 PM
Seems Aggers attack on Hodgsons tactic is just the Danish media mis representing what he really siad. Agger claims they have twisted his words.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2010, 04:36:48 PM
Seems Aggers attack on Hodgsons tactic is just the Danish media mis representing what he really siad. Agger claims they have twisted his words.

Danish tabloid madia is obviously not a patch on Danish bacon.  ;D

There must be some basis in truth though for what Agger said, even if it whatwas twisted. Hopefully what we're seeing at the moment will hopefully only be a prelude to pass and move.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 22, 2010, 11:23:25 PM
Well that was a flamin' shambles wasn't it? Question: Did we lose because of the players bequethed to Roy by Rafa or because Roy's poor judgement on player selection?

To be honest I haven't a clue. On paper it should have been a cricket score when you play at home but if our second string cannot out-think players from 3 divisions lower there is something fundamentally wrong with them.

I do question Roy's judgement when he makes Kyrgiakos captain!  :o
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: BandWMisery on September 23, 2010, 12:21:10 AM
What's your verdict ASI? got to say I think much of last year and this year reminds me of the team that took us down. With hindsight I think the off field stuff played with the players in your case it has come from RB and it seems also some players that believed that last year you needed a better squad(Some worded like they where playing with players that they where better than).

Coming off the back of a win that I have to admit makes the misery part of my name void -  "Team Spirit" - even here you'll find me talking about my fears that team spirit brought us up but I doubted it would be enough. Now I have to say with the shrewd additions by CH I'm actually starting to believe that Team Spirit is a factor that can make up for lack of quality.

I honestly think that team spirit is the key whether there is other factors not sure but certainly with us Barton and Smith(Now you wouldn't of expected those 2) pulled the team together and it became either fight for the club or f*** off. Certainly today I expected a spanking and Chelsea far from put a weak team out, and it certainly wasn't our quality that put a shift and some fight in for the result.

Hopefully not in the distant future the off field stuff will stop playing on the players minds but "Team Spirit" isn't bought.

Any way that is my thought I can say I honestly expected any team you put out to of beat them and would say there is too many factors to condense it to one.

OT:
Really ought to catch you for a pint one day as I'm really not a bad lad even if I do support the barcodes. I also live in the scum supporters territory not to far from you if the weather sig is correct only over in Stockport.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 23, 2010, 12:27:19 AM
Well that was a flamin' shambles wasn't it? Question: Did we lose because of the players bequethed to Roy by Rafa or because Roy's poor judgement on player selection?

To be honest I haven't a clue. On paper it should have been a cricket score when you play at home but if our second string cannot out-think players from 3 divisions lower there is something fundamentally wrong with them.

I do question Roy's judgement when he makes Kyrgiakos captain!  :o

If there's the smallest iota of truth to what Agger was quoted as saying, I wonder how many of the squad are thinking the same way. There seems little evidence of the move away from Rafa's tactics to 'pass and move'. Most of the International teams our players represent play more positive football so they can't have forgotten the basic principles of football.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 23, 2010, 12:39:29 AM
Well that was a flamin' shambles wasn't it? Question: Did we lose because of the players bequethed to Roy by Rafa or because Roy's poor judgement on player selection?

To be honest I haven't a clue. On paper it should have been a cricket score when you play at home but if our second string cannot out-think players from 3 divisions lower there is something fundamentally wrong with them.

I do question Roy's judgement when he makes Kyrgiakos captain!  :o

This is another result that raises more questions than it does give answers.

Let me start by saying I dont think Roy should be criticized for team selection. The Carling Cup and the Europa League need to be used to blood players.

I only saw the goals so I cant really comment on the performance either. According to SSN it was a pretty even contest with Northampton growing in confidence as the game went on.

My issues with tonights game is that firstly Roy cant inspire a team that consists of 5-6 potential league starters to a win over a League 2 outfit and secondly yet again his failure to use substitutes with time left on the clock for them to make an impact in 90 minutes. If David Amoo, Tom Ince or Jon jo Shelvey arent good enough to come on within 90 minutes at home to Northampton then why are they on the bench? If Roy believe they can cope why didnt he change things earlier?

As I always say Roy deserves his time but if what we have seen so far in the way of tactics and style of football is what we should expect in the future I wont be surprised if Roy is soon known as the English Rafa, but without the tactical know how.

Just when you think we've hit rock bottom..............
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 23, 2010, 12:44:48 AM
It certainly does try your patience. We simply have to be fair to Hodgson and see where we are and how we got there come May. It's just frustrating that our interest in a possible trophy is already over. I don't what it's title is, a trophy is a trophy.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 23, 2010, 12:46:40 AM
There seems little evidence of the move away from Rafa's tactics to 'pass and move'.

As you can see from my post I was just thinking the same thing.

I know its predominantly Rafas team but if Roys philosophy in football is an attacking one I would have expected to see glimpses of that by now.

My early gut feeling is that Roy is potentially out of his depth. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 23, 2010, 12:52:43 AM
It certainly does try your patience. We simply have to be fair to Hodgson and see where we are and how we got there come May. It's just frustrating that our interest in a possible trophy is already over. I don't what it's title is, a trophy is a trophy.

I'll be honest, as good as a day out in Wembley is and all that I didnt overly mind if we won the Carling Cup or not. It would have been nice but what I wanted to see us do is progress as far as possible to give the likes of Pacheco game time that they wont see in the league. Unfortunately we have come up short.

I dont know what this might tell Roy about the players hes seen lose tonight but it sure wont have been a showcase for his managerial skills either.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on September 23, 2010, 01:46:50 AM
Didn't see the game (Thank God!). I'm not going to have a go a Hodgson (but I'll add it to the list) cos it is ridiculously early to judge the guy. What that result shows is that a lot of these players are quite simply not Liverpool players. It has nothing to do with ability, class or fitness, you just don't lose at home to whoever in the Carling Cup. Supposedly that was there chance to impress and show what they're made of  :'(
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 23, 2010, 04:22:08 PM
Supposedly that was there chance to impress and show what they're made of  :'(

That's the most worrying part. The players that are not 1st eleven regulars should have been trying to prove something to the manager. If nothing else all the players should be busting a gut to want to win a trophy.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 23, 2010, 07:36:20 PM
What's your verdict ASI? got to say I think much of last year and this year reminds me of the team that took us down. With hindsight I think the off field stuff played with the players in your case it has come from RB and it seems also some players that believed that last year you needed a better squad(Some worded like they where playing with players that they where better than).
I haven't seen the game - only the goals so I can't really comment. But from what Jan Molby was saying on R5L they were absolutely awful. I don't understand why so many apparently good players can perform so abysmaly. Pacheco is a quality player and Spearing played a decent game in the Europa. Maybe they need some senior players round them?

Quote
Coming off the back of a win that I have to admit makes the misery part of my name void -  "Team Spirit" - even here you'll find me talking about my fears that team spirit brought us up but I doubted it would be enough. Now I have to say with the shrewd additions by CH I'm actually starting to believe that Team Spirit is a factor that can make up for lack of quality.
That's a good win for you. When I saw Chelsea had come back from 1-3 down I thought they'd win but credit to Newcastle. Team spirit is essential as is confidence. But after scoring after 8 minutes last night confidence should have been a Shay (given).  ;)

Quote
Hopefully not in the distant future the off field stuff will stop playing on the players minds but "Team Spirit" isn't bought.
No it can't but when you only have x amount of money to spend and you need 3 players then something has to give.

Quite frankly, what is concerning me more than the reserves losing is the ownership issue which must be resolved next month. If RBS extend the period then the increased interest payments will be crippling and could tip the club over the edge.

Quote
OT:
Really ought to catch you for a pint one day as I'm really not a bad lad even if I do support the barcodes. I also live in the scum supporters territory not to far from you if the weather sig is correct only over in Stockport.
Newcastle lads are fine. Yes, I live in Cheadle Hulme so maybe when I'm feeling a bit more sociable we can meet for a pint.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on September 24, 2010, 04:24:22 PM
wondering if Jim tweaked this site yesterday......because in firefox the site now looks tiny......the text is so small that it is unreadable.

the site still looks fine in explorer and seamonkey..........just something strange happened yesterday with firefox's display of the forum.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on September 24, 2010, 04:34:17 PM
Quote from: Tes on September 21, 2010, 04:36:48 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4012.msg16625#msg16625)<blockquote>Danish tabloid madia is obviously not a patch on Danish bacon.  ;D There must be some basis in truth though for what Agger said, even if it whatwas twisted. Hopefully what we're seeing at the moment will hopefully only be a prelude to pass and move.


it was totally twisted, Juan.

the danish print media took a tv interview, and then added their own questions in front of dan's answers......thus skewing the whole context.

we need stronger laws in europe, to eliminate such blatant deceit.


</blockquote>
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 24, 2010, 06:58:19 PM
wondering if Jim tweaked this site yesterday......because in firefox the site now looks tiny......the text is so small that it is unreadable.

the site still looks fine in explorer and seamonkey..........just something strange happened yesterday with firefox's display of the forum.

Dude, you need to clear your cookies. In Firefox go to Tools - Page Info - Security tab. View Cookies and remove all listed cookies. That sorted it for me.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 24, 2010, 10:46:28 PM
Dude, you need to clear your cookies. In Firefox go to Tools - Page Info - Security tab. View Cookies and remove all listed cookies. That sorted it for me.

Or use CCleaner.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 24, 2010, 11:02:58 PM
Or use CCleaner.

I use CCleaner but had moved the cookies into the protected area so they weren't being deleted. But there were around 5 cookies to delete when I had problems with the anfieldroad.com site. Deleting them as described above sorted the problem.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on September 25, 2010, 01:13:42 AM
Gee, it would be nice to sneak a few wins in there (1-0 is fine, OGs no problem), quietly chalk up a few points on the board..... :-[
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 25, 2010, 09:48:07 AM
Gee, it would be nice to sneak a few wins in there (1-0 is fine, OGs no problem), quietly chalk up a few points on the board..... :-[
Well Ed, Sunderland have an appalling record at Anfield so hopefully the senior team will do the business. Commentary is on Radio 5Live.

But we're only 3 points off 4th position so all this talk about crisis is a bit premature. I was watching the 2003 Carling Cup final last night against Manure. Interesting stat by the commentator. Liverpool have only won 3 of their last 16 games! And that's from a team that incudes Hamaan, Hyypia, Henchoz, Gerrard, Owen, Heskey and our old favourite Diouf! Somethimes even quality players struggle.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 25, 2010, 09:59:32 AM
I use CCleaner but had moved the cookies into the protected area so they weren't being deleted. But there were around 5 cookies to delete when I had problems with the anfieldroad.com site. Deleting them as described above sorted the problem.

Having had cookie problems before I don't bother protecting them, just let them be removed.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 25, 2010, 10:06:03 AM
Well Ed, Sunderland have an appalling record at Anfield so hopefully the senior team will do the business. Commentary is on Radio 5Live.

But we're only 3 points off 4th position so all this talk about crisis is a bit premature. I was watching the 2003 Carling Cup final last night against Manure. Interesting stat by the commentator. Liverpool have only won 3 of their last 16 games! And that's from a team that incudes Hamaan, Hyypia, Henchoz, Gerrard, Owen, Heskey and our old favourite Diouf! Somethimes even quality players struggle.

I think it's more a case of people being worried by what they're seeing and that it doesn't bode well. It's only part of the problem and as we've all been put through the mangle repeatedly, I think this has helped magnify things, and we're looking for onfield solace and not finding finding any there either. If it gives the players a wake up call, then maybe Wednesday night could end up having something positive come out of it. (Inserts crossed fingers smillie).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 25, 2010, 12:51:58 PM
I think it's more a case of people being worried by what they're seeing and that it doesn't bode well. It's only part of the problem and as we've all been put through the mangle repeatedly, I think this has helped magnify things, and we're looking for onfield solace and not finding finding any there either. If it gives the players a wake up call, then maybe Wednesday night could end up having something positive come out of it. (Inserts crossed fingers smillie).
I take your point Tes but it was a one-off game where all those players have never played together. And Stavros as captain? Does he captain his country? As Rory Smith said on Twitter - team talk was burning a lamb and shouting "COME ON!!" We know some of those players are better than Wednesday. They've proved it and come Europa nights they have to be used again so we'd better have some faith in them.

The biggest boost to everyone (including us) is the announcement from RBS that they're assuming control. Soon after that I expect the club to change hands to hopefully, responsible owners.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 25, 2010, 06:37:11 PM
If it gives the players a wake up call, then maybe Wednesday night could end up having something positive come out of it. (Inserts crossed fingers smillie).

Unfortunately the first team didnt seem to pick up where the squad players floundered. I wish I could be coming on here and giving a positive analysis but its very hard to take any positives from what Ive seen again today.

We know some of those players are better than Wednesday. They've proved it and come Europa nights they have to be used again so we'd better have some faith in them.

ASI some of those players should be better than what we saw Wednesday and some should have been better than what we witnessed today but as I said above its hard to take any positives at all from these performances.

You can use the excuse that we have new players in the squad but in general the team looks very poor at the moment no matter who's playing.

On what I've seen so far Poulsen is no better than Lucas (I dont rate Lucas). We made that call when Hodgson was pursuing Poulsen and to date I've seen nothing to change my opinion. So from what we've seen until he proves differently thats money wasted.

We are shipping goals for fun so its starting to bother me that Hodgson doesn't seem to be addressing that issue.

As I keep saying Hodgson will get time but so far on the field he has not offered anything more than we already had under our former manager Benitez and to date he offers less. Our team looks a shambles and i'm not sure how Roy expects the team to go from diabolical to top 4 contenders when we arent improving game by game. This is again just based on todays performance and what we have seen up to now. Its not working at the moment and I hope Roy can change things around especially if he wants to keep his job if and when new owners come in.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 25, 2010, 07:32:18 PM
The rado commentators reported a significant improvement after Ngog came on and we went 4-4-2. That HAS to be the formation at home for most of our games. Someone on the radio phone-in said Hodgson still has the Fulham mentality where drawing at home to Sunderland is seen as a reasonable result.

I hope he didn't spend the 90 mins sat down again looking at the ground. That attitude worries me. It's almost as though he feels powerless t change what he's seeing and that will filter through to the players.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 25, 2010, 10:07:45 PM

 We made that call when Hodgson was pursuing Poulsen and to date I've seen nothing to change my opinion. So from what we've seen until he proves differently thats money wasted.


There were a few of us weren't there, Juan, questioning the transfer when it was first mooted.
And I don't suppose a single one of us really wanted to be correct. He was a typical Hodgson player that would have fitted any of the teams, with the exception of Inter.   
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 26, 2010, 12:52:40 AM
The rado commentators reported a significant improvement after Ngog came on and we went 4-4-2. That HAS to be the formation at home for most of our games. Someone on the radio phone-in said Hodgson still has the Fulham mentality where drawing at home to Sunderland is seen as a reasonable result.

There was an improvement ASI but we only seem to improve when we go a goal or two down. It took Sunderland to take the lead today for us to respond. Last week we only went for the game when United were two up.

Regarding the phone ins I'm not sure Hodgson sees a draw at home to Sunderland being a good result, I think he knows what is expected at Liverpool. I just think on the evidence so far this season Roy just hasnt been up to the job. The longer these phase of poor performances and poor results go on the more Roy looks out of his depth. Thats not me having a pop at Roy, thats just fact from what we have seen to date.

I was always very dubious about his appointment and he needs to step up and make the team perform if he has any chance of winning his sceptics over. Lets just say we get taken over in October by somebody with a decent amount of cash to spend. If Roys performances werent to improve between October and January people would no longer have the ownership as a side issue and I would fear for Roys position.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 26, 2010, 12:57:11 AM
There were a few of us weren't there, Juan, questioning the transfer when it was first mooted.
And I don't suppose a single one of us really wanted to be correct. He was a typical Hodgson player that would have fitted any of the teams, with the exception of Inter.

I think at the time Tes we said that if Poulsen wasnt going to improve on what we already had why waste money on him. Again what I've seen of him hes not an improvement on whats already here. Had we kept the 6 million from Poulsen and also used the 10 we were going to splash on a striker we would have been able to look at strikers in the 16 and possibly 20 million bracket instead of shopping for the likes of Carlton Cole on the last day
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 26, 2010, 01:01:44 PM
There was an improvement ASI but we only seem to improve when we go a goal or two down. It took Sunderland to take the lead today for us to respond. Last week we only went for the game when United were two up.
That's the frustrating thing Juan. We took an early lead both on Wed and yesterday and failed to build on it. The penalty Poulson conceded was stupid and he should be dropped as punishment.

Quote
Regarding the phone ins I'm not sure Hodgson sees a draw at home to Sunderland being a good result, I think he knows what is expected at Liverpool. I just think on the evidence so far this season Roy just hasnt been up to the job. The longer these phase of poor performances and poor results go on the more Roy looks out of his depth. Thats not me having a pop at Roy, thats just fact from what we have seen to date.
It's the manager's responsibility to decide on formation and to give players instructions. After that, it's up to them. Collective responsibility. Both parties are culpable. But the first thing that has to happen is to stop conceding goals.

Quote
I was always very dubious about his appointment and he needs to step up and make the team perform if he has any chance of winning his sceptics over. Lets just say we get taken over in October by somebody with a decent amount of cash to spend. If Roys performances werent to improve between October and January people would no longer have the ownership as a side issue and I would fear for Roys position.
Well, this is a man courted by the FA and has also managed Inter Milan so he's no fool. The problem is, the longer it takes for him to formulate a successful plan to win games the more the players may lose confidence in him. All we can do is give him a chance as there's no possibility of a change until the club is sold.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on September 26, 2010, 01:44:27 PM
I have to say...the panic buttons aren't being pressed yet with Roy as of 12 games in...
the northampton result was obviously dire but putting out your reserve team is always going to encourage the opposition...its a one off cup game and the beauty of any cup game is the possibility of a shock result...we got one after extra time and penalties...Sh*t happens...i thought it was a good opportunity to see what our 'reserves' could do...and they didnt do the business...
should we have put out a full strength team against northampton? i think roy got it right on that one...
The league's the important factor...the europe league taking prominence after that....then the carling cup...
if we'd scraped through against northampton then got done by sunderland then there'd be criticism there too...

the game against sunderland finally proved that we need support for torres up front and that our midfield is overcrowded...they're not protecting the defense and they're not creating enough opportunites for up front...
yesterday ngog came on for poulson and the game changed in our favour...i think sunderland are a good side and bent at the moment is absolutely on fire..we knew this before the game...
roy did something about it in the 63 rd minute when bringing ngog on...
maybe roy should have a look at rafa's substitution techniques as he will most definately learn from them...

i think roy will have seen this as he strikes me to be an intelligent man...i also dont think he'll stick with his favourites..

we need to concentrate on defense and maybe konchesky being injured is a blessing in disguise...we need agger on the field...
i have major doubts about johnson...and i think kelly could do a better job defending...

i think torres needs support and ngog should be up there with him...i'm sick to death of seeing torres stranded...and i know damn well torres is sick of it....ngog has been playing well...and it would be nice to see pacheco get a run out...

so what should the midfield be?
out of kuyt, gerrard, cole, poulsen, lucas .meireles, maxi and jovanovic...8 into 4 wont go....so this is the tricky parts...
first place goes to gerrard...nuff said (sorry dude!) att mid...(lucas in his correct position as cover)..

2nd to meireles...looks good so far...def mid...(poulson as cover)..
jovanovic has deeply unimpressed me so far...i dont care if hes free...hell i'm free...and i'd play better! he needs to step it up...

we cant have kuyt and lucas playing together as they're both dogs boy runalots....so kuyt for me...3rd place...
maxi has been woeful...i'd never play him again after seeing him the 3 times i've seen him this season...

4th place: cole (with pacheco as cover)

we are 5 points away from 2nd..with our start? with a new manager? that isnt catastrophic...i'm still optimistic...but not in a titanic 'i see no iceberg, full steam ahead!!!' kind of way...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on September 26, 2010, 01:59:35 PM
And as for the 'controversial' first goal? I seem to remember Sunderland getting three points from us last season due to a ref unwilling to actually make a decision and ruling it a 'foreign body'
...the refs union has already come out and backed atwell for yesterdays game...so what goes around comes around...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 26, 2010, 07:03:26 PM
Hi Barticus,

I agree with your midfield selection and also that we should play Ngog up front with Torres. I also think Kelly should play instead of Johnson. Gerrard has to be in his most dangerous position and Meireles needs to be positioned accordingly.

The trouble with the team that played Northampton is that we'll need those lads during the season but I think playing some of them with more experienced players will help them. Pacheco and Spearing deserve more time. Also, you cannot play Agger at LB. Aurelio could be close to a return and I would play him there even if Konchelski is available. Agger is simply too good to be left out or played out of position.

Roy does need to change things for the Europa game on Thursday and I would play Gerrard and Torres. We seem to play better in Europe and momentum is vital. Blackpool will put up resistance but we should be able to defeat them.

There's no doubt that the ownership problem is having an effect on the pitch. If RBS to the honourable thing on Oct 15th there could well be a bounce in the next game after that date. And the opponents? Everton!

I also think we need to play to our strengths. Torres loves running into space so we should sit back and let teams come on to us and then ... wallop!!! A good forward pass will release him to do what he does best. It sounds so simple but football is a simple game as someone once said. It's made complicated by idiots!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on September 26, 2010, 10:08:21 PM
I have my doubts about Spearing, been a nearly man for too long IMO, interested in this lad JonJo Shelvey though too early to say until he features a bit more often! The Carling cup result is fair, so we have to move on from that to the next 2 fixtures Utrecht away and Blackpool at home.

Certainly, Johnson should be shot for his defending on the second goal yesterday. Don't care what he offers going forward! Hopefully some of the new additions to the squad can start to take on some of the responsibility for winning games because Stevie G riding over the mountain to salvage a point at home to Sunderland is a very depressing concept (although fair play to him for doing it!). C'mon Cole, Meireles!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 26, 2010, 11:38:28 PM
I have my doubts about Spearing, been a nearly man for too long IMO, interested in this lad JonJo Shelvey though too early to say until he features a bit more often!

I agree with you on Spearing and to be honest for me it goes past just having reservations, hes simply not Liverpool quality. I think the fact that he is a product of the academy and is flying the flag  as a local Liverpool lad is the reason he is still in the squad. If he is French, Spanish or any other nationality he would have been moved on before now. I can understand the concept of wanting to keep a Liverpool soul at the club but whats the point if the player in question is not up to scratch. Its sad to see we arent producing any new generation Fowlers Gerrards or Owens.

Also in a way I think thats why Carragher is still first choice, hes liverpool through and through and I think Roys afraid to drop him. If Roy is afraid to make those tough decisions like easing Carragher out and we continue performing poorly then I wont have sympathy if new owners were to relieve him as manager. It was the same with Benitez at times, I could never understand why he would chose to rest the likes of Torres in the league or put out a weakened team as he did on numerous occasions against the likes of Reading when they were in the PL. Even though I was a Rafa fan I always thought if we lose this game and you get sacked I wont have sympathy for you. Same goes for Roy if he persists with choosing certain players because its easier to play them than drop them even if its to the detriment of performances and results then if he falls on his own sword it will be entirely his own doing.

Apologies gone off a bit from the Spearing rant but I strongly believe there are other players in that team clearly not performing or not good enough and if Roy is afraid to make the tough calls then its on his head. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 28, 2010, 12:27:08 AM
I pinched this article from someone who posted on the .com site.

Its probably a fair assessment of how things have gone so far and what will probably happen to Roy if we get new owners in the not so distant future.

http://www.qwerty.web.id/roy-hodgsons-job-at-liverpool-is-under-threat-after-a-string-of-poor-results/


Roy Hodgson’s Job at Liverpool is Under Threat After a String of Poor Results
Posted by admin on September 27th, 2010 | No Comments

Roy Hodgson‘s Liverpool career is so fresh that the ink has barely dried on his contract. The popular manager has had to endure a trial by fire in his first weeks on the job. But just as he is getting his feet under the table there is a very real chance that he could be sacked.

Make no mistake about; six points from six games for a club with the stature of Liverpool is just not good enough. However, the most discouraging part of the Reds start to the season has been the manner of their performances; ranging from passable to abject.

This week the club have had to stomach ignominy of being knocked out of the Carling Cup at Anfield by League Two side Northampton, being outplayed by Manchester United at Old Trafford in a 3-2 defeat before another dispiriting draw at home to Sunderland.

From their six league games this season, Liverpool have only managed one three pointer thus far, a 1-0 home win over West Brom in the third game of the season. It is fair to say that the fixture list has not been kind to Hodgson with his team having faced three heavyweights in Arsenal, Manchester City, and Manchester United.

However, as already mentioned it is the manner of Liverpool’s performances that causes concern rather than their point’s total. Not once this season have the Reds even looked liked they were playing well.

Arsenal dictated the opening game of the season and if it were not for a calamitous piece of goalkeeping by the haphazard Manuel Almunia they would have begun this term with a loss rather than a draw.

A truly terrible performance followed at the Eastlands where Liverpool was brushed aside by Manchester City in a 3-0 victory that easily could have been more. A 1-0 win over an improving West Brom side at Anfield settled a number of nerves before an abject display away to Birmingham had everyone wondering what exactly was happening at Liverpool.

If it were not for Pepe Reina producing one of the finest performances of his Liverpool career then Birmingham would have won by a cricket score.

It sent a worrying pulse through the Reds supporters who wondered just how far their team had fallen if it was taking man-of-the-match type performances from their goalkeeper just to eke out a point at Birmingham.

This led us to the last seven days.

Manchester United dominated Liverpool in every area of the pitch at Old Trafford and really should have been home and dry before two Steven Gerrard strikes pegged the Red Devils back. In the end, justice was served as Dimitar Berbatov finished off his hat-trick with another well-taken goal.

Then there was Northampton…

Hodgson changed the set-up of the team completely but still found his side having to score a late equalizer in injury time to draw with the Cobblers, who then won the game on penalties.

And this weekend Liverpool produced yet another below par performance against Sunderland at home.

Hodgson just isn’t producing the kind of changes everyone thought he would. His signings, while restricted by a severely dented budget, have the ring of mid-table about them, especially Poulsen and Konchesky. While Meireles and Cole look like they are struggling to come to terms with the growing pressure they are playing under.

In short, after just six games Roy Hodgson has found himself in an extremely vulnerable position.

Let’s make it clear, he will not be sacked by the current board unless the club goes on a slump of biblical proportions, but he is in grave danger of being sacked by whoever decides to eventually take over the club.

The main reasons that Hodgson was brought in initially are two fold. The first reason being that Roy was the best, cheapest option. Liverpool only had to pay Fulham around £1.5 million in compensation for their manager. The second being that his contract is short, and if new owners take over the compensation they have to pay out will also be minimal.

It is precisely for these two reasons that Liverpool went for Hodgson over other options like Martin O’Neill or Laurent Blanc. While the board also recognised that their new manager was a better option than Kenny Dalglish, who had been away from the game for some years.

Last May it became clear that Liverpool was moving towards administration is something huge did not happen at the club. Now it is known that all potential investors have to do is wait for RBS to take over the debt-ridden club in October and they could make a massive saving of around £300 million.

Currently RBS lawyers are looking into how they could force Kop Holdings in administration but not the club itself. However, Liverpool FC is the only asset on Kop Holdings books and the Premier League would surely investigate such instances should they arise. If they were to find wrong doing then the club could face a larger penalty than the 9pts currently on show.

Just to show what Liverpool fans want, well known Liverpool fan site Anfield Road have just conducted their own opinion poll where the options given were

1) Keep Hicks and Gillett or
2) Enter administration with RBS

So far, fans have voted overwhelmingly for administration, with some 97 percent seeing the unknown as a better option than keeping Hicks or Gillett.

Should the seemingly inevitable happen then it is almost a certain bet, unless results improve dramatically, that Hodgson and Liverpool will part ways as the new owners look to put their stamp on the club.

Early money would suggest that Martin O’Neill is the prime candidate for the job.

Tom Hicks and George Gillett have until the start of October to pay, the government owned bank, RBS the entire amount of some £280 million or face being taken over.

From here it would seem that the countdown for the clubs future is in line with the countdown for Hodgson’s too.

This article was previously featured on Tiger Beer Football, where Willie Gannon is the featured Blogger. Over 18s only.

Bleacher Report – Front Page
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 28, 2010, 10:22:54 AM
Hodgson's (and our's) problem is that most of his career has been spent with clubs and countries who are only there to make up the numbers. Copenhagen and Malmo may have had a chance of being domestic champions but within the larger picture of European football would barely create a ripple in the UEFA Cup, nevermind the European Cup. If somehow either had managed to qualify for the latter, that would have been the pinacle of success, simply being there. Likewise Finland and Switzerland.
At Inter he took over a team that had been in the doldrums for years. Blackburn where in rapid descent from where they'd peaked under Dalglish.

You've only got to look at the fuss that surrounds his 'achievements' at Fulham. In the context of who Fulham are and where their place is in domestic and European football, of course it was an achievement, but as O'Neill has proved at Villa, overachievement at an also-ran doesn't neccessarily mean translation will occur at a 'real player'. Let's not forget that Villa for decades were the most successful team in the FA Cup (when it was revered the world over, and were only overtaken by Ferguson's commercially funded United) and are a past European Cup winner, something that clubs like Arsenal with their illustrious history and Chelsea with the Londoncentric 'glamour', and recently cash, can't lay claim to. 

We needed a manager who would make the sort of impact Wenger did when he took over from Rioch, or Ancelotti has done when compared to what Scolari, Hiddink and Grant achieved - leaguewise, as that is where our priority lies and our overall performance has been most lacking for the past two decades and been brought more sharply into focus with a seventh place finish, only scraping into the UEFA Cup thanks to Portsmouth's (fan's) misfortunes and financially is an imperative.
Unfortunately Roy Hodgson's career has not been about that level of impact and achievement. Yes, he's had success within the context of the clubs or countries he's managed but success at Liverpool Football Club is not measured within the narrow range of Liverpool Football Club but rather the much broader context of domestic and European football in it's widest sense.

All we can hope is that Roy bucks the trend and breaks the mould and is therefore able to translate 'success' into success.   
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on September 28, 2010, 11:37:20 AM
Hodgson's (and our's) problem is that most of his career has been spent with clubs and countries who are only there to make up the numbers. Copenhagen and Malmo may have had a chance of being domestic champions but within the larger picture of European football would barely create a ripple in the UEFA Cup, nevermind the European Cup. If somehow either had managed to qualify for the latter, that would have been the pinacle of success, simply being there. Likewise Finland and Switzerland.
At Inter he took over a team that had been in the doldrums for years. Blackburn where in rapid descent from where they'd peaked under Dalglish.

You've only got to look at the fuss that surrounds his 'achievements' at Fulham. In the context of who Fulham are and where their place is in domestic and European football, of course it was an achievement, but as O'Neill has proved at Villa, overachievement at an also-ran doesn't neccessarily mean translation will occur at a 'real player'. Let's not forget that Villa for decades were the most successful team in the FA Cup (when it was revered the world over, and were only overtaken by Ferguson's commercially funded United) and are a past European Cup winner, something that clubs like a*senal with their illustrious history and Chelsea with the Londoncentric 'glamour', and recently cash, can't lay claim to. 

We needed a manager who would make the sort of impact Wenger did when he took over from Rioch, or Ancelotti has done when compared to what Scolari, Hiddink and Grant achieved - leaguewise, as that is where our priority lies and our overall performance has been most lacking for the past two decades and been brought more sharply into focus with a seventh place finish, only scraping into the UEFA Cup thanks to Portsmouth's (fan's) misfortunes and financially is an imperative.
Unfortunately Roy Hodgson's career has not been about that level of impact and achievement. Yes, he's had success within the context of the clubs or countries he's managed but success at Liverpool Football Club is not measured within the narrow range of Liverpool Football Club but rather the much broader context of domestic and European football in it's widest sense.

All we can hope is that Roy bucks the trend and breaks the mould and is therefore able to translate 'success' into success.

All excellent points Tes.

I said it a few weeks ago that in the short term I would like to see Roy tinker with the team until he finds his best balance and his best personnel.

If we consistently drop points after points playing the same players in the same positions using the same system then Roy is shooting himself in the foot.

Many of us have called for Johnson to be pushed on to the wing. No matter how well hes doing at right back in training hes not doing it on the pitch. Some want to see Agger and Skrtel get a chance to strike a defensive partnership. Likewise some have said to draft Kelly in at right back.

People will be even happier to give Roy time if they see that he is attempting to shore up our defence while attempting to find the balance that give us the best platform for attack.

Today John Aldridge echos some of what we have said and I wonder if Roy will adopt any of his thinking. Why not use this weeks Europa Cup to give the Kelly Johnson partnership down the right a try or as Aldo says pair Kuyt with Torres for 45.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/debate-johnson-on-the-wing


Debate: Johnson on the wing?
28th Sep 2010 - Latest News

John Aldridge would like to see young defender Martin Kelly selected at right-back in the coming weeks - with Glen Johnson moved up field to play on the wing. But what do you think?

The former Kop favourite said: "Personally I'd like to see Johnson pushed forward with Kelly behind him at right-back, as I think that would improve us as an attacking force and bolster the defence.

"We have conceded too many goals from wide areas in the last couple of league games and that is something that needs to be rectified. You have got to stop the ball coming in to the box at all times and a couple of clean sheets would do wonders for the confidence.

"If you had Kelly and Johnson on the right, Dirk Kuyt could slot in behind Fernando Torres and have Joe Cole on the left with Steven Gerrard and Raul Meireles in the middle - a winning combination?"

What do you think of Aldo's idea? Vote below and then explain your decision by commenting on this story.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on September 28, 2010, 07:34:52 PM
94% in favour of that suggestion. Come on Roy, be brave!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on September 29, 2010, 04:23:41 PM
sorry haven't been contributing much of late - i cannot read the posts, because the text is way too small.

i don't know what was changed last week - i imagine some part of a css file....but the posts/site now looks tiny.

(yes asi, I deleted cookies,  and i use ccleaner, etc)

i use windows 7 and the latest firefox (the site still looks fine in explorer and other browsers)......did you change something, Jim?  Or is it on my end.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 29, 2010, 07:50:44 PM
It's the reverse for me Dude, Firefox is much better than explorer.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on September 29, 2010, 08:05:41 PM
interesting, Tes.

does this forum look tiny/unreadable in explorer for you?

i am only able to read it now in explorer and seamonkey (mozilla based browser)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on September 29, 2010, 08:17:30 PM
interesting, Tes.

does this forum look tiny/unreadable in explorer for you?

i am only able to read it now in explorer and seamonkey (mozilla based browser)

Quite often it becomes elongated, likewise the writing becomes much smaller and the whole layout of each of the posts becomes, I can only describe it, as disorganised.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on September 29, 2010, 08:27:17 PM
sounds like Jim's gotta try a new template/theme for the forum......this template is causing issues.

another issue is that I have to keep logging in every few minutes or so.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 03:53:53 PM
0-2 down at half-time to Blackpool. What on earth is going on? Is it player apathy or manager incompetence? A bit of both I suspect.

You can't expect a team to resign but realistically should Hodgson fall on his sword? I think he should and let's get Kenny in.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2010, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 03:53:53 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4012.msg17570#msg17570)<blockquote> realistically should Hodgson fall on his sword? I think he should and let's get Kenny in.



 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o </blockquote>
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2010, 04:13:41 PM
geez, see above......what a crappy error strewn template.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: wittsy on October 03, 2010, 05:03:08 PM
I don't know where to start, what a steaming pile..... it's getting a bit worrying now.

Jas
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 05:11:02 PM
Quote
geez, see above......what a crappy error strewn template.

Dude. Preview your message and hit the far right icon - Toggle View. That sorted the mess for me.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2010, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 05:11:02 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4012.msg17594#msg17594)<blockquote>Dude. Preview your message and hit the far right icon - Toggle View. That sorted the mess for me.
</blockquote>

do I have to do this every time, ASI?

this template is a steaming pile of poo.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 05:33:14 PM
Quote
do I have to do this every time, ASI? this template is a steaming pile of poo.

I don't. But getting rid of those blockquote tags is the key. You may have to preview your message and hand-edit initially to clean things up. Once you have made that change and quote a message to reply to things should behave normally.

But some advice from Jim would help.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2010, 06:17:04 PM
Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 05:33:14 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4012.msg17611#msg17611)<blockquote>I don't. But getting rid of those blockquote tags is the key. You may have to preview your message and hand-edit initially to clean things up. Once you have made that change and quote a message to reply to things should behave normally.But some advice from Jim would help.



no-one is gonna manually have to edit html tags every time they post a reply/quote.


</blockquote>
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 06:21:38 PM
Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 05:33:14 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4012.msg17611#msg17611)<blockquote>I don't. But getting rid of those blockquote tags is the key. You may have to preview your message and hand-edit initially to clean things up. Once you have made that change and quote a message to reply to things should behave normally.But some advice from Jim would help.

no-one is gonna manually have to edit html tags every time they post a reply/quote.


</blockquote>

You don't need to edit every time. I haven't edited anything with this reply. Just hit Toggle View and see how you do with that. If you're still struggling then Jim needs to help if you can't figure it out.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2010, 06:25:30 PM
Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 06:21:38 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4012.msg17628#msg17628)<blockquote>You don't need to edit every time. I haven't edited anything with this reply. Just hit Toggle View and see how you do with that. If you're still struggling then Jim needs to help if you can't figure it out.


i hit Toggle View 2 or 3 posts ago (an hour or more ago).

it is only marginally better - the html tags are still visible tho.  WHo is gonna be bothered edititng html tags every time.

ah hell,  there are numerous problems with this crappy template.

It is much work, trying to post in here.


</blockquote>
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: BatChainPuller on October 03, 2010, 06:30:53 PM
Must have been beginners luck but I didn't have any problems posting (Firefox 3.6.10).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2010, 07:14:23 PM
BCP, that's the same version of firefox that I have.

what version of windows are you using?

I am on windows 7.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 07:28:16 PM
BCP, that's the same version of firefox that I have.

what version of windows are you using?

I am on windows 7.
XP here dude. Maybe that's a factor?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: BatChainPuller on October 03, 2010, 07:36:37 PM
BCP, that's the same version of firefox that I have.

what version of windows are you using?

I am on windows 7.

I'm on XP - looks like the problem right there.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2010, 07:55:46 PM
0-2 down at half-time to Blackpool. What on earth is going on?

The players simply don't enjoy or believe in what they're being asked to do.

We as fans don't like watching this way of playing (if there's even any method behind it) so it must be really tough for technical players to have to perform this dogged way of playing.

We have quality players, maybe not as many as we'd like, but enough, with positive tactics and attitude, to at least mount a reasonable challenge for fourth. If City click, then there's probably 3 truly realistic challengers for the title, so yes we'd be up against Arsenal and probably Spurs for fourth, but if we were to be more positive and set out to force teams back instead of appearing to be trying to hang on and hopefully pinch something, then as results came, so would belief and confidence and it take on it's on self fuelling momentum.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on October 03, 2010, 09:59:57 PM
BCP, that's the same version of firefox that I have.

what version of windows are you using?

I am on windows 7.

I have the same Firefox but I'm on XP and no problems. Looking like Windows 7 is whats doing it.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 10:17:35 PM
The players simply don't enjoy or believe in what they're being asked to do.

We as fans don't like watching this way of playing (if there's even any method behind it) so it must be really tough for technical players to have to perform this dogged way of playing.

We have quality players, maybe not as many as we'd like, but enough, with positive tactics and attitude, to at least mount a reasonable challenge for fourth. If City click, then there's probably 3 truly realistic challengers for the title, so yes we'd be up against a*senal and probably Spurs for fourth, but if we were to be more positive and set out to force teams back instead of appearing to be trying to hang on and hopefully pinch something, then as results came, so would belief and confidence and it take on it's on self fuelling momentum.

It's as simple as this Tes. Unless we play a more attack-minded and pacier game we will not emerge from this dark period any time soon. It's time for drastic action. For Roy that equates to two forwards and wingers even if it goes against everything he stands for. If he's not prepared to do it then I fear the fans will turn against him. But if they see he's trying to improve things with change then they'll stick with him.

I've just watched LFCTV's Gerrard's top goals and it included his spectacular volley against Real Madrid 18 months ago. Babel provided a top notch cross that Gerrard converted. If he can do it then then he can do it now.

Fourth should not be beyond us but the tactics have to change against Everton. If Roy feels he can't do that then he knows what he must do.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2010, 10:37:36 PM
Exactly, and let's ditch this two defensive minded holding midfielders. We need to get a central midfielder breaking into the box and playing further forward looking to slip balls inside full backs, between centre halves, keeping the ball moving around the edge of the area.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on October 03, 2010, 10:42:24 PM
The players simply don't enjoy or believe in what they're being asked to do.

We as fans don't like watching this way of playing (if there's even any method behind it) so it must be really tough for technical players to have to perform this dogged way of playing.

We have quality players, maybe not as many as we'd like, but enough, with positive tactics and attitude, to at least mount a reasonable challenge for fourth. If City click, then there's probably 3 truly realistic challengers for the title, so yes we'd be up against a*senal and probably Spurs for fourth, but if we were to be more positive and set out to force teams back instead of appearing to be trying to hang on and hopefully pinch something, then as results came, so would belief and confidence and it take on it's on self fuelling momentum.

Didnt see todays game so for once I'm not going to tear strips off Roy or the team for their part in the latest farce.

Even though I suggested in some earlier posts that we might struggle to win today I actually thought we would win comfortably by 2 or 3. The fact that we have actually lost has changed things. We are away to Everton next. A tough fixture at any point in any season but you can bet your money that they will be more motivated than ever to add to the clubs suffering. After that we host Blackburn at home, another club that would love to kick us while we are down. On the basis of todays result teams are going to see us as a soft touch and go for the jugular. Unless we stop the slide we could actually find ourselves being dragged into a relegation battle. The worst thing our fans and players could possibly start to think now is that we are too good to go down. I know we are only 7 games in and talking about relegation battles is a bit dramatic but while we lie in 18th place or anywhere near we have got to understand that at the moment thats what this is.

The owners repayments fall due in October, the bank could possibly take over the club. The word on the street is that the board have been discussing with the Premier League a means where we dont lose 9 points. But what if when the times comes we go into administration and the Premier League decide we must take the points deduction. That would currently put us on -3 points and 9 points from safety. Lose to Everton and that's potentially 12 points from safety, all of a sudden things are getting a bit hairy and we are deeper in trouble than we think.

I'm not sure what needs to happen but something does need to change and fast
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 04, 2010, 12:20:44 PM
es ASI, BCP, Juan, it may be that the theme is not compatible with windows 7.

but why did it suddenly only go wonky in the past 10 days.  Did  some new update in windows 7 mess it up.....OR did Jim do some tweaking of the template.  Need some feedback from Jim here.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on October 05, 2010, 12:25:12 AM
es ASI, BCP, Juan, it may be that the theme is not compatible with windows 7.

but why did it suddenly only go wonky in the past 10 days.  Did  some new update in windows 7 mess it up.....OR did Jim do some tweaking of the template.  Need some feedback from Jim here.

That there Gates fellow has a lot to answer for. Bloody Americans are even f$cking up the forum.  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on October 05, 2010, 12:28:42 AM
Didnt see todays game so for once I'm not going to tear strips off Roy or the team for their part in the latest farce.

Even though I suggested in some earlier posts that we might struggle to win today I actually thought we would win comfortably by 2 or 3. The fact that we have actually lost has changed things. We are away to Everton next. A tough fixture at any point in any season but you can bet your money that they will be more motivated than ever to add to the clubs suffering. After that we host Blackburn at home, another club that would love to kick us while we are down. On the basis of todays result teams are going to see us as a soft touch and go for the jugular. Unless we stop the slide we could actually find ourselves being dragged into a relegation battle. The worst thing our fans and players could possibly start to think now is that we are too good to go down. I know we are only 7 games in and talking about relegation battles is a bit dramatic but while we lie in 18th place or anywhere near we have got to understand that at the moment thats what this is.

The owners repayments fall due in October, the bank could possibly take over the club. The word on the street is that the board have been discussing with the Premier League a means where we dont lose 9 points. But what if when the times comes we go into administration and the Premier League decide we must take the points deduction. That would currently put us on -3 points and 9 points from safety. Lose to Everton and that's potentially 12 points from safety, all of a sudden things are getting a bit hairy and we are deeper in trouble than we think.

I'm not sure what needs to happen but something does need to change and fast

Juan, I thinking the difference between us and say Southampton is that we have no solvency issues apart from the holding company's debt. Whether that's enough to save us losing 9 points who knows. Afterall these are Premiership rules and as we know, common sense and the Premier League administration are total strangers.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: wittsy on October 17, 2010, 04:02:22 PM
I'm out of ideas as to comment on this game, dire.

Change now before we really are in a relugation battle I say..

Jas
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 17, 2010, 06:41:23 PM
  Quote from: Tes on October 05, 2010, 12:25:12 AM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4012.msg17816#msg17816)  <blockquote>That there Gates fellow has a lot to answer for. Bloody Americans are even f$cking up the forum.  :D
</blockquote>   

 :D

bleedin yankees.

(tho someone else in here did post of similar woes and they were accessing the forum from some other device - i forget it's name, wipad, atari, touchpad, y-box, telephone or summat)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on October 24, 2010, 05:06:54 PM
I only saw the first half of today's games.

It was definitely an improved performance. Had it not been for a couple of wayward shot and a few more Paul Robinson saves we could have been leading at the break.

Thats said Blackburn were a poor side and this win doesn't ease the pressure on Roy.

Any insight on the second half?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 05:09:47 PM
indicative of how far we have fallen - the game wasn't even on tv here (they show 10 or more live games each day) ..........saw celtic v rangers, stoke and utd, now presnetly watching bits of city and arsenal in background.

decent result.......but we are looking like a mid table side at best.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on October 24, 2010, 06:07:20 PM
Thank gawd for that win! Will have to wait until Match of the day til i actually see it, (cos Spain has now gone all digital and previous free premiership for the last ten years has now gone pay to see)...but at least fat slam can't lord it over us...thanking for small mercies i know but it all counts...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 07:10:34 PM
Thank gawd for that win! Will have to wait until Match of the day til i actually see it, (cos Spain has now gone all digital and previous free premiership for the last ten years has now gone pay to see)...but at least fat slam can't lord it over us...thanking for small mercies i know but it all counts...

wow, you get match of the day in spain, barticus?  Cool.

I wish we had such a highlights show here.

I am in central america.......and none of the sports channels showed our game live today :(

I haven't even been able to see highlights.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on October 24, 2010, 09:38:49 PM
Great game. Can't remember we played this well at any point last season up til the 70th minute. Then we got a bit nervous as Gerrard admitted in the post-game interview. We were extremly unlucky to concede from their only chance. We bossed the game very well and I was very happy to see Maxi producing his best performance since joining the reds. Even Carra had a blinder with very good crosses (best I've seen from him ever as I recall). Meireles started off sloppy but got better by every minute, still can't believe he missed that sitter. But that's how it is when you're low on form and confidence. Also thought Cole showed signs of improvement and his cross to Torres for the winner was an indication there's more to come.

Well done you red men.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 10:04:51 PM
Well done you red men.

Ditto. A win's a win at this current time. Roy for England? Please?  ;D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on October 25, 2010, 07:28:21 AM
wow, you get match of the day in spain, barticus?  Cool.

I wish we had such a highlights show here.

I am in central america.......and none of the sports channels showed our game live today :(

I haven't even been able to see highlights.

Down here on the costa del sol...All the premier games used to be on Spanish channel 2 here so the games at 12.45, 3 o'clock and the 5.30 could all be seen on the saturday as well as the sunday games...they never bothered with midweek games...
pretty awesome for 10 years until GOL TV bought up all the rights and now i'll have to sign up to that...
Still got sky satellite to fall back on though...hence the MOTD...

Central america must be awesome..
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 25, 2010, 03:53:20 PM
Down here on the costa del sol...All the premier games used to be on Spanish channel 2 here so the games at 12.45, 3 o'clock and the 5.30 could all be seen on the saturday as well as the sunday games...they never bothered with midweek games...
pretty awesome for 10 years until GOL TV bought up all the rights and now i'll have to sign up to that...
Still got sky satellite to fall back on though...hence the MOTD...

Central america must be awesome..

sounds like a wonderful lifestyle there, barticus!

i watched very little tv back home - but i always had two key faves - newsnight each evening at 10.30pm (paxman tortured politicians, which was great).....and match of the day.  Also loved discovery.

I do miss the MOTD highlights package.  Who the hell wants to sit through all of these live games.  I miss highlight shows.  Shame about Gol making it pay there now for you.

I was close to trying Portugal - fancied a few miles in from the algarve....up in the hills.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Jas_lfc on October 28, 2010, 04:05:38 PM
Btw, coverage of footy in India is the best you will ever get. Apart from the spanish league, whose matches are delayed ones, we get almost every league. Huge coverage of BPL, CL, Uefa cup, FA cup, Carling Cup. Scottish/German/Italian/Dutch league also available. All this for close to 8 euros a month. Dont have an HD one, but I think that will cost close to 10 Euros.

The 8 Euro package includes all the channels available in India i.e. Movies, Music, Sports etc...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on October 28, 2010, 04:40:33 PM
Btw, coverage of footy in India is the best you will ever get. Apart from the spanish league, whose matches are delayed ones, we get almost every league. Huge coverage of BPL, CL, Uefa cup, FA cup, Carling Cup. Scottish/German/Italian/Dutch league also available. All this for close to 8 euros a month. Dont have an HD one, but I think that will cost close to 10 Euros.

The 8 Euro package includes all the channels available in India i.e. Movies, Music, Sports etc...

Lucky barstewards  ;D

My father-Inlaw has all the footy coverage over ther but he's not into football.......what a waste (shakes head in disgust)  :)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on October 28, 2010, 05:46:13 PM
Btw, coverage of footy in India is the best you will ever get. Apart from the spanish league, whose matches are delayed ones, we get almost every league. Huge coverage of BPL, CL, Uefa cup, FA cup, Carling Cup. Scottish/German/Italian/Dutch league also available. All this for close to 8 euros a month. Dont have an HD one, but I think that will cost close to 10 Euros.

The 8 Euro package includes all the channels available in India i.e. Movies, Music, Sports etc...

It's no wonder it's called 'Rip Off Britain'.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Jas_lfc on October 28, 2010, 05:49:14 PM
Lucky barstewards  ;D

My father-Inlaw has all the footy coverage over ther but he's not into football.......what a waste (shakes head in disgust)  :)

But then again, you can go and see a match live at Anfield. Given my earnings, it could take me a lifetime to do so.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on October 28, 2010, 05:56:59 PM
It's no wonder it's called 'Rip Off Britain'.

And it's getting worse Tes.  Strategy for me during this government is save, save, save!

And maybe eventually, like the Dude Abides look for pastures new.....that's my game plan anyway.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on October 28, 2010, 06:02:15 PM
And it's getting worse Tes.  Strategy for me during this government is save, save, save!

And maybe eventually, like the Dude Abides look for pastures new.....that's my game plan anyway.

Don't blame you one bit, Gurdeep. The constant gurgling sound is not just the rain but the country disappearing down the toilet.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2010, 06:56:53 PM
Jas, that's great football coverage for 8 euros per month.

agree with you all re britain going down the tubes.  I started actively looking abroad at the end of 2002.  I hated where new labour was taking the country.  I wanted sunnier climes and less govt control of my life.

We all should chat sometime, even regulalrly, in a conference.......using skype, messenger or paltalk.  Fascinating to get to know you all more.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on October 28, 2010, 07:39:54 PM

agree with you all re britain going down the tubes.  I started actively looking abroad at the end of 2002.  I hated where new labour was taking the country.  I wanted sunnier climes and less govt control of my life.


damn right...left in 99...havent been back...got ruddles, john smiths bitter beer for about a quid a can down here in the local supermarkets...english shops to get yer english luxuries like parma violets, hp sauce, etc...used to get all the premiership on spanish tv until of course GOL tv bought it all (probably owned by murdoch)...but now have the hardship to go watch it in the local spanish pub who get said gol tv.....
oh and did i mention the guaranteed 300 days of sun and my little village statistically (FACTS!) recognised as the best climate in europe...http://www.imb-amberes.com/about_torrox_en.htm
i write and paint all day ...tis a good life..
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 28, 2010, 07:56:09 PM
Hey Barticus,

I have a friend who lives near Lake Vinuela. Just down the road from you. I visit her every year so when I'm over next year maybe we could meet for a beer or two?

And just to make you feel even better about leaving Blighty the link on my signature is from my own weather station so you can smile at our awful temps as you sun yourself!  :'(
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2010, 09:11:44 PM
damn right...left in 99...havent been back...got ruddles, john smiths bitter beer for about a quid a can down here in the local supermarkets...english shops to get yer english luxuries like parma violets, hp sauce, etc...used to get all the premiership on spanish tv until of course GOL tv bought it all (probably owned by murdoch)...but now have the hardship to go watch it in the local spanish pub who get said gol tv.....
oh and did i mention the guaranteed 300 days of sun and my little village statistically (FACTS!) recognised as the best climate in europe...http://www.imb-amberes.com/about_torrox_en.htm
i write and paint all day ...tis a good life..

wow, thanks for the link, barticus.

looks great......great weather.  The pedestrianised streets and cafes look the biz....reminds me of porto santo and madeira...where I nearly bought.

so you paint...wow......are we talking on canvas or on building sites? 

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on October 28, 2010, 09:36:52 PM
wow, thanks for the link, barticus.

looks great......great weather.  The pedestrianised streets and cafes look the biz....reminds me of porto santo and madeira...where I nearly bought.

so you paint...wow......are we talking on canvas or on building sites?

Barticus the street graffiti artist.  :o

'And he painted matchstick men and matchstick builder's bums'.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on October 29, 2010, 06:38:48 AM
Hey Barticus,

I have a friend who lives near Lake Vinuela. Just down the road from you. I visit her every year so when I'm over next year maybe we could meet for a beer or two?


No worries ASI! Anytime for a beer! Vinuela's a beautiful place...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on October 29, 2010, 06:52:47 AM
Barticus the street graffiti artist.  :o

'And he painted matchstick men and matchstick builder's bums'.

yup something like that tes...

http://www.myspace.com/weirdcity/photos/

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on October 29, 2010, 07:24:36 AM
yup something like that tes...

http://www.myspace.com/weirdcity/photos/

You are a talented artist barticus.  Very nice  :)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on October 29, 2010, 08:17:42 AM
Cheers Gurdeep!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 29, 2010, 12:03:53 PM
very good drawings, barticus!

This weekend, I must google some more for your town/neck of the woods.  It looks beautiful.

Must also take pics sometime of where the dude abides.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on October 30, 2010, 12:48:17 AM
yup something like that tes...

http://www.myspace.com/weirdcity/photos/

Nothing like LS. You have a real talent. They have so much depth and life to them.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 30, 2010, 12:59:42 AM
Tes, I didn't realise you were an art connesur
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on October 30, 2010, 01:02:23 AM
Tes, I didn't realise you were an art connesur

 :D     It's amazing how far an 'o' level gets you.  ;D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 30, 2010, 01:05:22 AM
:D     It's amazing how far an 'o' level gets you.  ;D

can't beat those old o levels and a levels  :)

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on October 30, 2010, 07:24:26 AM
Thankye kindly Tes and dude...tis appreciated..
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 30, 2010, 03:46:29 PM
welcome, barticus.

i;d love to hear mre of your lifestyle there.  I almost bought in Portugal.  i loved idea of living in hills above the algarve. 

spain was pretty expensive near the coast, for me.

ultimately I gave up on europe, given the direction it was going (an authoritarian, control freak based state)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on October 30, 2010, 09:02:27 PM
yup something like that tes...

http://www.myspace.com/weirdcity/photos/

Agreed, some very nice art work Bart.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on October 31, 2010, 06:43:28 AM
welcome, barticus.

i;d love to hear mre of your lifestyle there.  I almost bought in Portugal.  i loved idea of living in hills above the algarve. 

spain was pretty expensive near the coast, for me.

ultimately I gave up on europe, given the direction it was going (an authoritarian, control freak based state)

it was dirt cheap here fifteen years ago...you could pick up a house for peanuts...for an example...2 bedroom house for 4000 quid...3 bedroom house, 2 bathrooms and 3 terraces for about 20000 quid...friends who heard about this came out and snapped up a few but by then prices had started to go up...this is after 2000....then they went up and up and up and went for ridiculous prices and then it crashed, big styley...from the highest prices it must have come down by half....thats the model for most of the coast...

places like puerto banus went up and down but they were always expensive...and so they didnt see massive fluctuations...

agree with the super state thang about the EU soviet state but the beauty of it is, that this place is like Don camillo...there might be laws in place but this lot down here have never heard of them let alone implement them...after the nanny state of england...this place is utterly free...in theory you;re supposed to carry id...but i never have and in 10 years i have never been stopped...

plus points...
also there's things like the cheap alcohol...
the chilled out atmosphere...no violence...only the tourists..
council tax for the house...130 euros (112 quid) a year...
rubbish collected every night from your house...100 quid a year...
road tax...54 quid...
water and electricity just gone up through the global grand design of getting everyone's savings and making them reliant on the state...
oh and did i mention the 300 days sun?

bad points...er...
foods not as cheap in the local shops as it would be in england but there's always mercadona and aldi...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2010, 01:23:28 PM
it was dirt cheap here fifteen years ago...you could pick up a house for peanuts...for an example...2 bedroom house for 4000 quid...3 bedroom house, 2 bathrooms and 3 terraces for about 20000 quid...friends who heard about this came out and snapped up a few but by then prices had started to go up...this is after 2000....then they went up and up and up and went for ridiculous prices and then it crashed, big styley...from the highest prices it must have come down by half....thats the model for most of the coast...

places like puerto banus went up and down but they were always expensive...and so they didnt see massive fluctuations...

agree with the super state thang about the EU soviet state but the beauty of it is, that this place is like Don camillo...there might be laws in place but this lot down here have never heard of them let alone implement them...after the nanny state of england...this place is utterly free...in theory you;re supposed to carry id...but i never have and in 10 years i have never been stopped...

plus points...
also there's things like the cheap alcohol...
the chilled out atmosphere...no violence...only the tourists..
council tax for the house...130 euros (112 quid) a year...
rubbish collected every night from your house...100 quid a year...
road tax...54 quid...
water and electricity just gone up through the global grand design of getting everyone's savings and making them reliant on the state...
oh and did i mention the 300 days sun?

bad points...er...
foods not as cheap in the local shops as it would be in england but there's always mercadona and aldi...

woow, amazing cheap prices for houses over there back then.

i learned long ago, that life is all about timing.  You made a great move, Barticus.

I love those cheap utility prices and the fact that much of spain (like when i was in areas of portugal) largely ignore stupid EU laws.  A senior person told me in Madeira, that the people ignore stupid laws.

You'd love, as an artist, the awesome views that I have here. 

By the way, would you perchance have a link to any real estate website - for your area/region?

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2010, 04:55:58 PM
Bolton (away)

first half perspective.

bolton have had their chances (we had a good one at the end of the half).

we have plenty of good personnel - but we seem very disorganised.  At times it is headless chicken stuff.  One even wonders if these lads have ever played together before.

a good team controls the tempo of a game.  We have shown no such composure or discipline.

torres looks out of form and I don't like his demeanour.

defence was so scared, that at one point when bolton had a freekick from the right, our 5 lads at the back were holding hands across the 6 yard line.   I'm surprised they didn't light a candle at the local chapel.

Reina is superb.  Kept us in the game.  Great hands.

overall, we seem very disorganised.   



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 31, 2010, 05:02:02 PM
Good summary dude. All our possession is in areas that aren't threatening. We're too slow to attack when we have the ball. Gerrard needs to sit deeper. Meireles could push forward maybe.

The holding hands thing in the wall is to avoid big gaps. Simple and effective. What is going on in Torres' head?

Second half now starting. Big 45 mins!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2010, 06:09:33 PM
we snatched a fortunate goal at the death, ASI.  We only started to put pressure on bolton in those final 5 minutes.

maxi caught my eye 2 or 3 times in the game......I like glimpses of the lad.

Sotirios Kyrgiakos, I love his never say die attitude.  He actually looks interested, unlike his mates.

Mereless - I predicted that our season was pivotal on how well Mereless hit the ground running.  That was always a pretty impossible task.  And it now seems he is struggling to make an immediate impact.  Pretty anonymous today.

I thought Gerrard and Torres were woeful.  And I do wonder whether their personal on-the-pitch love affair is over.  They don't seem to be so keen on each other (as they once were). 

hoof, hoof, hoof.........fans used to complain when carragher hoofed it forward..........wow, looking back that was a blissful period.  For under Woy, the entire team now hoof the ball. 

unless Woy plants grass in the sky, his stay at anfield will be a short one. 

man of the match - reina
players worthy of positive mention - Kyrgiakos, Maxi.

pretty poor fare.......tho to be honest, not too many teams will come away from bolton this season with three points.

this goal at the death will save Woy for a little bit longer.  I foresaw a nil-nil or 1-1 today...and then potentially getting hammered by chelsea.

It's not a case of IF Woy will go, merely a case of WHEN.  The sheer lack of organisation, and the amount of hoofing, will be his downfall.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on October 31, 2010, 06:10:15 PM
What a manager that Woy Hodgson is!!!!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2010, 06:21:18 PM
What a manager that Woy Hodgson is!!!!!!

he's english you know

must be good.

so we can't judge him the way we did rafa or houllier.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 31, 2010, 07:56:05 PM
Dude,

Snatched is a bit harsh. It was a good flick by Torres (who noticed Maxi's run) and a decent finish given no real power could be applied. But I agree Torres had a bad game. Not sure what's going on in his head. Might be non-football matters you know. These guys do have a life outside footie.

I thought Skrtel and Soto both had good games against Davies who was always going to be difficult to play against on his own patch. You can't knock a defence that keeps a clean sheet. I thought we were a lot better when Ngog came on. 4-4-2 might suit us against some teams but not Chelsea.

But Roy's tactics had me baffled. No substitutions in a game we had to win except Cole (injury) and Meirles (time wasting). Where was Pacheco or Shelvey? I do think it's only a matter of time before he goes but not until we have a settled board.

Anyway, we're up to the dizzy heights of 12th and only 3 pts behind City. Two weeks ago we were 9 pts behind them. Keep thinking positive.  :D

There's a story on the BBC that Brian Barwick is being considered for the Chairman post. I'd be happy with that? Would you?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 31, 2010, 08:15:56 PM
One other point today. The Liverpool fans were absolutely brilliant in their support of the team. Even singing about Maxi after he scored. If you were there today then well done for such brilliant support. You outsung the home fans on several occasions. The players should be proud of such support.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: wittsy on October 31, 2010, 09:16:08 PM
I could hear the signing on the radio, really was good to hear.

Jas
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2010, 09:58:40 PM
they're keeping the signing caged til the official window in January.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 01, 2010, 12:37:32 AM
we snatched a fortunate goal at the death, ASI.  We only started to put pressure on bolton in those final 5 minutes.

maxi caught my eye 2 or 3 times in the game......I like glimpses of the lad.

Sotirios Kyrgiakos, I love his never say die attitude.  He actually looks interested, unlike his mates.

Mereless - I predicted that our season was pivotal on how well Mereless hit the ground running.  That was always a pretty impossible task.  And it now seems he is struggling to make an immediate impact.  Pretty anonymous today.

I thought Gerrard and Torres were woeful.  And I do wonder whether their personal on-the-pitch love affair is over.  They don't seem to be so keen on each other (as they once were). 

hoof, hoof, hoof.........fans used to complain when carragher hoofed it forward..........wow, looking back that was a blissful period.  For under Woy, the entire team now hoof the ball. 

unless Woy plants grass in the sky, his stay at anfield will be a short one. 

man of the match - reina
players worthy of positive mention - Kyrgiakos, Maxi.

pretty poor fare.......tho to be honest, not too many teams will come away from bolton this season with three points.

this goal at the death will save Woy for a little bit longer.  I foresaw a nil-nil or 1-1 today...and then potentially getting hammered by chelsea.

It's not a case of IF Woy will go, merely a case of WHEN.  The sheer lack of organisation, and the amount of hoofing, will be his downfall.

Couldnt watch todays game but listened to it via radio.

3 points at Bolton is never an easy feat so delighted with the win. By the sounds of it Torres had a day to forget before that super flick. Couldnt agree with you on selling Nando Dude, I know he has been injured alot but hes too good when he is fit to let go. Strikers go through bad spells, Rooneys the same at United. I'm not sure Torres believes where Roy is taking the club. I'm also not sure Roy can improve Nandos game like Rafa did. Torres and Nando seemed to have a mutual respect, I dont see that with some of the players and Roy.

By the sounds of it and correct me if I'm wrong but today although we won and thats the main priority the team didnt sound like they played too well. At times when they had possession it sounded like they did very little with it and were often lacking when it came to opening Bolton up.

Krygy sounded like he played well. Himself and Skrtel for central defensive partnership going forward? Roy will never drop Carra though. Lucas sounded ineffective.

I credit Roy with the win but it doesnt change my opinion that hes not up to it. Hes going to compromise the way we should play football, hes going to compromise on what we should expect to achieve and if hes left in charge too long I would be afraid some fans might start to accept the mediocrity that comes with Roy. Hes never been a winner so I cant see why he will start to become one now.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on November 01, 2010, 08:14:10 AM
Still utterly unconvinced that Roy is the one to bring us back to the champions league...no tactical guile...no dynamic substitutions...we won despite Roy as it came down to a little bit of class from Torres (world champion) and maxi (ever present argentinian player) to slot it in...
The game simply shows how badly we've been underachieving thus far...and that the squad with a few additions can challenge for 4th...
The reason we've been underachieving is Roy...he's way over his head....and the idea of him spending money for 5/6 players in january is deeply worrying...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2010, 08:52:01 PM
Liverpool v Napoli
Nov 4th 2010

half time

disappointing stuff.

napoli have been playing as if there are the home team.

we are standing off napoli, giving them all the time in the world to pass the ball around in triangles.

they are well worth their 1-0 half time lead.

watching tonight, this display reminds me of Graeme Souness's managerial time at Anfield.  It is clueless.  One keeps trying to figure out what we are organised to do.  And I still end up scratching my head.  A distinct lack of organisation.  I think some lads are unsure of what they are supposed to be doing (as individuals).

I have not seen a worse manager in the anfield dugout since Graeme Souness.

Roy's appointment has been a massive step backwards for the club.

I hope John Henry and his missus, get the vibe from the fans tonight (that Woy is out of his depth).


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 04, 2010, 09:00:45 PM
Agreed Dude its very disappointing stuff.

I was wrong in thinking Roy would put out his best team because Henry was over but its a strong enough team to expect us to play far better than we have.

Its very hard to blame anyone individually because collectively we look terrible.

Whats worse is Napoli are a poor side. They do have a couple of players capable of hurting us like we have already seen but they are no better than the players we come up against week in week out in the league.

Lets hope Roy uses that LMA manager of the year award 2010 brain of his to sort this mess out at half time.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2010, 09:06:35 PM
exactly, Juan.

napoli have come to anfield and it's as if they are the home team.

if liverpool don't get their act together, we are gonna be no better than mid-table this season.

Indeed, we will post our worst ever league finishing position, in my lifetime............unless roy sorts himself out.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2010, 09:57:11 PM
roy has obviously had a real go at them at half time.

the ante was upped in the second half..........and napoli were shown up to be there for the taking.

gerrard has had a good half.......need to see more consistency and not just when the chips are down.

awful tackle on ngog......italian shown have been shown a straight red.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 04, 2010, 10:02:32 PM
I'm not sure if my desire for Roy to leave is masking my ability to judge a game but I thought that was an absolutely shocking performance tonight against a poor side.

We got the luck we needed to get us back into the game, Gerrard did brilliantly for all 3 goals but the performance as a whole for me was horrendous and that score line masks Roys lack of ability to make this team perform.

Nothing from that game again suggests to me that Roy has the know how to take this club to where its looking to go.

All I can say is well done Stevie, he always steps up when needs be.

Disgraceful tackle alright Dude, he should get a retrospective ban for that.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 04, 2010, 10:03:28 PM
A brillaint second-half performance by Gerrard shouldn't disguise the fact that we were outplayed for much of the first half. Sitting too deep, not closing down the man with the ball AGAIN!!! At least the owner can see for himself how bad Roy's tactics are. Surely, despite the win, he cannot hang around much longer? We win despite him, not because of him.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 04, 2010, 10:08:05 PM
We win despite him, not because of him.

Nicely summed up ASI
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2010, 10:16:14 PM
agreed.........napoli were there for the taking.........but roy struggled to know how to do it.

as is said above.....we won despite of roy.

we didn't close the opposition down well enough, all game.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 04, 2010, 10:20:10 PM
We didnt control the game whatsoever. Granted we had the better of the last 20 minutes but aside from that I sat watching the game thinking to myself that I couldnt remember seeing a Liverpool team play so badly and looking so tactically poor.

This was a throw back to the Graham Souness era.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 04, 2010, 10:58:10 PM
This was a throw back to the Graham Souness era.
The biggest difference between now and then Juan is that far fewer games were televised so the horror show didn't get a very wide audience. These days even these Mickey Mouse Euro games are watched live around the world.

Pity Meireles couldn't convert his chance tonight. He's desperate to score for the team. I feel for him. Sunday would be a good time to start Raul.  ;)

And I'm baffled why Pacheco can't even make the bench. Has he said something out of line? I can't understand why he's not getting a chance. He must be getting seriously piddled off.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 05, 2010, 12:47:32 AM
The biggest difference between now and then Juan is that far fewer games were televised so the horror show didn't get a very wide audience. These days even these Mickey Mouse Euro games are watched live around the world.

Pity Meireles couldn't convert his chance tonight. He's desperate to score for the team. I feel for him. Sunday would be a good time to start Raul.  ;)

And I'm baffled why Pacheco can't even make the bench. Has he said something out of line? I can't understand why he's not getting a chance. He must be getting seriously piddled off.

He's under 29 and not one of Roy's ex safe bets. Thankfully I only saw the last 20 mins and of course their goal. Great flick on by Christian (insert every expletive known to man) Poulsen.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on November 05, 2010, 07:15:45 AM
In the delirium of flu coursing through my body i watched one eyed at the sheer desperate shower that wore red in the first half, wanting to heal myself and not add to my misery by watching anymore, i went to bed.
So it was quite a nice surprise to wake this morning to the news we won and read through the match commentary at least one player still has some heart and talent.

3 wins on the trot Roy just about staying in there...that first half last night was quite frankly one of the worst displays i'd seen in many a long year, and without the arrival of his ace in the hole, he'd be dead and buried...
cavani is 2nd highest scorer in italy but thank the lord he didnt have his shooting boots on tonight (more like concrete ones)

Roy's getting some luck from somewhere...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 05, 2010, 01:55:51 PM
He's under 29 and not one of Roy's ex safe bets. Thankfully I only saw the last 20 mins and of course their goal. Great flick on by Christian (insert every expletive known to man) Poulsen.

In a few years when he's no longer with us and becomes a superstar lots of questions will be asked about how did he slip through our net. But Roy won't be around to be held accountable.

Surely Poulson cannot continue after last night. I know he made a contribution to one of the goals but overall he hasn't really had a decent performance in any of his games.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on November 05, 2010, 01:57:35 PM
Give me the mighty Igor Biscan any day of the week over Poulson
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 06, 2010, 01:31:46 AM
Give me the mighty Igor Biscan any day of the week over Poulson

 ;D Spot on, but still funny.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 04:09:41 PM
Liverpool v Chelsea
Sunday 7h November 2010

anyone abroad struggling to see the game, there is superb coverage (taken from Sky's live feed) over at

http://tedbundy.yolasite.com/ (http://tedbundy.yolasite.com/)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 04:14:49 PM
1-0

Torres!

awesome ball from Kuyt  (through the eye of a needle).



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 04:20:51 PM
other live TV link

http://vip---tv.yolasite.com/ (http://vip---tv.yolasite.com/)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 04:51:19 PM
2-0

Torres!!!!

44 mins

superb first half from the reds.

best of the season......entire team been excellent.

we badly missed kuyt.  Great to see him back. 

lucas been looking good too.

great team performance in this first 45.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 05:22:24 PM
still 2-0

into the final 30 mins, and we are sitting deeper.

chelsea starting to look more dangerous.

nail biting time.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 05:56:32 PM
2-0 result

could have had a third at the end (penalty not given)

andy gray, richard keyes and crew will rant on about the usual suspects carrying us to victory (torres and gerrard), etc.

but it was instead a fantastic team performance.

they all earned their corn......great stuff.

maxi, mereless and lucas all earn my special praise.

GREAT to see Kuyt back..........always the first man (along with reina) on my teamsheet.

we do go top tonight.............baldest team in the premiership.



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 07, 2010, 06:14:14 PM
When Liverpool play badly Roy is normally the first person I will blame for his tactical short comings and his inability to galvanise the team so tonight its only fair that hes the first person to praise. Superb result and although my opinion on Roy wont change on just 3 results alone if he constantly continues to win games in the league it does make it hard for the fans like me to continue to criticise.

Super first half performance, Kuyt, Lucas, Gerrard, Torres, Reina etc as dude says everybody played their part. Nando looks back.

Second half we soaked up too much pressure, constantly kicked it long, gave away possession and started living on the edge. But even still we were good value for our win, Maxi unlucky not to make it 3. Level with Spurs now on points theres no reason we cant kick on from here and put in a real fight for a Champions league place.

Well done Roy and the reds.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 07, 2010, 06:24:03 PM
Brilliant display first 55 minutes, then we invited some pressure and owe Pepe quite a lot for keeping our sheet clean. In the end tho, we were the better team and fully deserved to win this game. It is good to see Roy's creation coming into being. I always said we would come good. I'm not saying we're there or thereabouts but I do have this feeling it's not such a bad thing to being in a chasing position.

Well done to the team, especially Kelly whom I've been critical of before. Well done Kuiyt on your return, your pass for Torres opener was absolutely brilliant. Well done Gerrard and Torres as per usual. And very very well done Roy for allowing for a gameplan that wasn't about adjusting to Chelsea's ditto.

I'm very much looking forward to the upcoming 3 games!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 07, 2010, 06:44:53 PM
Very pleasing result and good to see Fernando back to his best. Top marks to all the team who played their hearts out. Jamie played a stormer and denied Drog a certan goal. Total respect from Drog to Jamie for that tackle.

The whole crowd led by the luscious Linda were superb. Lots of gargling with ale tonight to relieve those tonsils!  :D

Well done Roy. I'm still sitting on the fence but continue in this vein and my belief in you will grow. Two away games next at Wigan and Stoke. Just as crucial as today that we get a result at both.

Finally, please let Kelly continue at RB. He deserves another game on that performance.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on November 07, 2010, 06:45:49 PM
Agreed Dude, Kuyt makes a big difference! Thought Lucas was immense today!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on November 07, 2010, 07:09:26 PM
Absolutely brilliant! Thought Torres was magnificent and we're beginning to believe in ourselves again...concentrating on football rather than making excuses and baiting rafa will hold Roy in better stead. Fair play though...4 games ago i thought he was dead man running...but maybe he's learning which club he's at now...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 08:04:55 PM
Agreed Dude, Kuyt makes a big difference! Thought Lucas was immense today!

agreed, Ed.  We badly missed Kuyt.  That was evident today.

And like you say, Lucas was immense.  I am so proud of that lad.  After the difficult time he has had, and all the abuse, he has a heart of gold. 

Torres showed glimpses of what he is about.  He's still not totally back.....but he's getting there.  He needs to smile a tad more.  Beating Chelsea, it doesn't get much better, he needs to enjoy the moment.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 07, 2010, 08:19:03 PM
Well that cheered me up!  Don't like to call anyone out today as being special because everyone of them contributed everything they had today. Proud win. You don't often see Chelsea reduced to clueless lumping it forward. they must have felt like they had come third in this match.  Not totally convinced by Roy yet, as you know, but fair suck of the pineapple, the guy got it right today. Take a bow, everyone - and at last henry gets to hear the Kop in full voice! Great day!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 07, 2010, 09:04:30 PM
I'd like to echo what Juan's said and congwatulate Royston, first and foremost. Wigan and Stoke next, so let's keep this run going.
I'd just love to be proved wrong about Roy.

Looking at the table and this season so far, if we can continue in this vein we will put ourselves in the mix for a CL place again. Long way to go, but this makes our record against the top 5/6 look a lot healthier.

Well done all you redmen, Roy included.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on November 07, 2010, 10:24:18 PM
Something positive at last.  Well done the Reds, and well done Woy (gotta give credit where credit is due).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 07, 2010, 10:40:37 PM
(gotta give credit where credit is due).

Didn't the banks keep saying that leading up to the credit crunch?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on November 07, 2010, 11:34:47 PM
Didn't the banks keep saying that leading up to the credit crunch?

pmsl
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 10, 2010, 09:42:46 PM
Very very disappointing result. Didn't get to see the game but needless to say this result had a very Benitezish side to it. Winning home at the reigning champions only to drop points a few days later away to a team destined for relegation. This shows how shallow our squad is in terms of quality. Prolly drop points at Stoke as well and the momentum will be gone in a few days.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on November 10, 2010, 10:33:54 PM
Very very disappointing result. Didn't get to see the game but needless to say this result had a very Benitezish side to it. Winning home at the reigning champions only to drop points a few days later away to a team destined for relegation. This shows how shallow our squad is in terms of quality. Prolly drop points at Stoke as well and the momentum will be gone in a few days.

So after 12 games in charge not including Europe, Woy still hasn't stamped his authority on his squad.  I think this say's more about Hodgeson than it does of Benitiz imho.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 10, 2010, 11:28:48 PM
Didnt see the game but according to mates who got to see it if Wigan had won by 2 it wouldnt have been an injustice.

Have read reports on the match and they are basically to the same effect.

I think results like the one against Chelsea at home on Sunday could be a regular ish occurrence under Roy  but so too will results like tonight against Wigan. He will never get the consistency necessary to challenge for the league especially away from home.  Our run of fixtures ahead suggest we should be capable of going on a run but I really think it will be a mixed bag with plenty of points dropped.

I just wonder how long are NESV going to let this charade play out until.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 11, 2010, 12:48:38 AM
woy is useless on his travels.

we beat chelsea due to being on autopilot.  IMHO  Our lads knew chelsea so well from the previous encounters.

wigan had won only one game all season at home....losing 5.

they were there for the taking - and yet they will think themselves unlucky not to have beaten us.



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 11, 2010, 10:55:49 AM
Very very disappointing result. Didn't get to see the game but needless to say this result had a very Benitezish side to it. Winning home at the reigning champions only to drop points a few days later away to a team destined for relegation. This shows how shallow our squad is in terms of quality. Prolly drop points at Stoke as well and the momentum will be gone in a few days.

Fulham boss Roy Hodgson has warned their dismal away record could come back to haunt them.

"Our away record will come to haunt us until we start winning," said Hodgson. "I remember when I was at Halmstads we had two years without winning away. It goes that way. One day, the day will come.

"But the most important thing is that if you don’t win away from home, you get a result and that is something we have done.

"If you look, there are a lot of teams in the league who have lost more matches. If you add the fact we are unbeaten in the Cup, three matches, we don’t have a bad record, having lost just seven times in 28 or 29 matches.

"We have had some draws away from home when we have been expected to lose. The most important thing is that we keep going. I don’t see any magical formula which will see us suddenly change it around.

"Every away game we play in the Premier League, our opponents expect to beat us. We rarely start as favourites. I don’t think some of the bookies were even making us favourites against Swansea."

Fulham's away record (and Blackkburn's (just for sh!ts and giggles):

Fulham
2009/10 1
2008/09 3
2007/08 3

Blackburn
1997/98 5


A bit of a pattern emerging there, Martin. As Benitez won the European Cup with Houllier's team, surely Roy, being the talent he is (at least in comparison to a certain R. Benitez), could stop the pattern you've described from happening and take a sow's ear and make a purse out of it, as Inter's current boss did in his first season.

Quick question, Martin. As all our ills are the previous manager's fault, if we do win something this season (stop laughing at the back), will you be giving him all the credit also? 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 11, 2010, 11:10:31 AM
woy is useless on his travels.

I think that's a bit unfair, Dude.  Halmstad,  Bristol, Örebro, Malmö, Neuchâtel, Switzerland, Milan, Blackburn, Milan (again), Zurich, Copenhagen, Udine (Udinese), United Arab Emirates, Stavangar, Finland and Fulham, and not one missing person's report.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 11, 2010, 11:18:13 AM
I think that's a bit unfair, Dude.  Halmstad,  Bristol, Örebro, Malmö, Neuchâtel, Switzerland, Milan, Blackburn, Milan (again), Zurich, Copenhagen, Udine (Udinese), United Arab Emirates, Stavangar, Finland and Fulham, and not one missing person's report.

The thing I find amusing is that people look at that list of clubs and the fact there is so many of them people equate that with success.

To me that suggest hes a journeyman who couldn't hold down a job or at least be successful enough to stay at a particular club for more than two years. Its not like hes been doing a Mourihno on it going to a club winning major trophies and moving on to a new and bigger challenge.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 11, 2010, 12:54:21 PM
The thing I find amusing is that people look at that list of clubs and the fact there is so many of them people equate that with success.

To me that suggest hes a journeyman who couldn't hold down a job or at least be successful enough to stay at a particular club for more than two years. Its not like hes been doing a Mourihno on it going to a club winning major trophies and moving on to a new and bigger challenge.

It's his pedigree or rather lack of it, over decades, that is the most baffling thing about his appointment. It's not like he's a relative rookie (5 years experience) who's shown enough potential to suggest that at the right club he will flourish.

Tony Adams looks like he's following in Roy's footsteps, Gabala FC of Azerbaijan.  ???
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 11, 2010, 02:02:44 PM
Tony Adams looks like he's following in Roy's footsteps, Gabala FC of Azerbaijan.  ???

Lennon started at Celtic.  Imagine.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 11, 2010, 02:21:06 PM
Lennon started at Celtic.  Imagine.

.......and will end up at Farsley Celtic.  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 12, 2010, 01:41:09 PM
.......and will end up at Farsley Celtic.  :D

 :D

why not Captain Marvel taking over from Woy.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 12, 2010, 02:13:14 PM
Fulham boss Roy Hodgson has warned their dismal away record could come back to haunt them.

"Our away record will come to haunt us until we start winning," said Hodgson. "I remember when I was at Halmstads we had two years without winning away. It goes that way. One day, the day will come.

So it seems Roy was actually consistent at all the clubs he managed.

Consistently unable to win away from home.

Stoke will be a tough one and maybe it will give us a further insight into whether Roys got a built in flaw about taking a team on the road. The result is most important of course but performance is right up there too at the moment, Roy needs to prove he can make this team perform.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 12, 2010, 03:09:57 PM
It certainly seems like a long standing and uncorrected career long problem.

The remaining 3 fixtures in November, the two aways at Stoke and Spurs and the home game with West Ham, who seem to have discovered a bit of fight recently, will go a long way to showing whether he's starting to get to grip with the issues or whether the recent unbeaten run actually has less substance and cause for optimism that the results in isolation would seem to suggest.

When you see the list of clubs and countries he's managed, the 'achievements' and the time spent with any of them, more and more it appears so at odds with what NESV have so far outlined as their vision for the club, it's getting harder to understand why he's still here.

Obviously the season, in many ways, is a transitional one but the sooner we start that process for real, the better. At the moment it just feels like we're standing around, lamely waiting for something to happen instead of making it happen by being proactive.
Finishing outside of the top four this season is going to intensify the difficult process even further and with the new financial rules just around the corner, we need the Champions League more than ever and not just from a footballing perspective.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 12, 2010, 04:21:34 PM
Quick question, Martin. As all our ills are the previous manager's fault, if we do win something this season (stop laughing at the back), will you be giving him all the credit also?

That's quite a provocative thing to say. When or where did I say all our ill's are the previous manager's fault? I am of the firm belief Rafa is and was a bad at man management, including his favorites no matter how poor they performed while resting his non-favorites despite showing good form. He also kept the players on an extremly short leech throughout his reign. In the end he couldn't call on the team to perform for him which is why we more often than not the last two seasons ended up looking disjointed and lacklustre. This is the Rafa illness. It'll take time to fix but it isn't his fault although his involvement in the club during the past 6 years goes some way to explain current performances. It's not his fault if we play badly but the reason we play badly is in part explained by his approach towards the players. Catch me drift? Reckon most likely not.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 12, 2010, 05:46:10 PM
That's quite a provocative thing to say. When or where did I say all our ill's are the previous manager's fault? I am of the firm belief Rafa is and was a bad at man management, including his favorites no matter how poor they performed while resting his non-favorites despite showing good form. He also kept the players on an extremly short leech throughout his reign. In the end he couldn't call on the team to perform for him which is why we more often than not the last two seasons ended up looking disjointed and lacklustre. This is the Rafa illness. It'll take time to fix but it isn't his fault although his involvement in the club during the past 6 years goes some way to explain current performances. It's not his fault if we play badly but the reason we play badly is in part explained by his approach towards the players. Catch me drift? Reckon most likely not.

That's quite a provocative thing to say too, sausage.
In all honesty Martin I think it is to your credit that you can see Roy's reign in optimistic terms (wish i could share) but, since we are lacking significant improvement this term wheredo you differentiate between Rafa's failure and Roy's? I'm just curious - please don't call me 'pathetic' this time  ;)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 12, 2010, 08:08:32 PM
I am of the firm belief Rafa is and was bad at man management. He also kept the players on an extremly short leash throughout his reign. In the end the team ended up looking disjointed and lacklustre. This is the Rafa illness. It'll take time to fix.

yip, woy's well on his way to fixing it.

we need not be concerned any longer, with those nasty Champions League games, nor those pesky finals.  They disrupted our summer vacations and swiss preseason training anyroads.

nor need we have to accept straightforward qualification for the CL each season, from now on.

woy is da man. 

all wail woy.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 12, 2010, 09:13:55 PM
That's quite a provocative thing to say.

Where's the provocation in it. Martin? At every twist and turn you keep bringing the former manager into things.
Whether it's a positive or negative thing, he's gone. History.

"to drop points a few days later away to a team destined for relegation" and then "prolly drop points at Stoke as well" is most definately what you get with Hodgson. His away record, and not just with us, is dire. It is so, so typical of his teams. But no, you refer to dropping points away after beating Chelsea at home as having " a very Benitezish side to it".

Whether we'd have faired any better at Wigan under Benitez can only be debated.

Are you saying you expect us to drop points at Stoke? If so, at who's door do you lay the blame? The manager of Inter or the manager of Liverpool?

Don't misunderstand. Nobody on here wants Roy to fail. Why would we? But wanting him to succeed is so far only based on hope. Not having the faith that he will is based on 35 years of past evidence. The balance of probability does not weigh in his favour. Unfortunately.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 13, 2010, 12:13:07 AM
Don't misunderstand. Nobody on here wants Roy to fail. Why would we? But wanting him to succeed is so far only based on hope. Not having the faith that he will is based on 35 years of past evidence.

Super point Tes. I think that probably sums up the feelings of 90% of Liverpool fans.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2010, 07:00:01 PM
Stoke versus Liverpool
Nov 13, 2010

Drab first half.

Bad start to the second half - Stoke have scored and have us on the back foot.

Like previous games, we are totally disorganised.  I struggle to see our line of midfielders or defenders. 

It's headless chicken stuff.  We do not look like Liverpool at all.  This is another typical workman-like performance.....journeymen stuff, ala the same way that a Bolton or Blackburn would perform.  All bust-a-gut, with no subtlety or intelligence.

Dire strip too.  We look like the all blacks......we just need a rugby ball.

Roy has to go.  I don't think he could organise a pis.s-up in a brewery.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on November 13, 2010, 07:40:52 PM
6 days later after beating chelsea we end up with 1 point from a possible six...
There can be no excuses anymore...Roy has to go...he's not up to it and he has no tactical nous...
With Pellegrini gone to Malaga, the real problem is who can replace Roy? 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 07:50:28 PM
6 days later after beating chelsea we end up with 1 point from a possible six...

Be fair, Barticus they were both away. As his record suggests and as we are having confirmed to our cost, Roy doesn't do away wins.  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on November 13, 2010, 08:11:46 PM
lol....*cries* horrifyingly true...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 13, 2010, 09:03:30 PM
Question has got to be...has henry got the balls to do it? I think he's worried about replacing one mistake with another. If he backs the wrong horse now though, we are going to lose out big time next year. He says the start of the season isn't down to roy because its Rafa's team. Give that team to a top manager and dya think he would produce such an almighty mess? He has failed his own test - how many games do we have to judge him on now?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2010, 09:21:55 PM
Question has got to be...has henry got the balls to do it? I think he's worried about replacing one mistake with another. If he backs the wrong horse now though, we are going to lose out big time next year. He says the start of the season isn't down to roy because its Rafa's team. Give that team to a top manager and dya think he would produce such an almighty mess? He has failed his own test - how many games do we have to judge him on now?

the problem will be, who does John Henry go to, to get advice on a new appointment.

I wouldn't listen to much Dalglish has to say on the issue.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 09:32:12 PM
Question has got to be...has henry got the balls to do it? I think he's worried about replacing one mistake with another. If he backs the wrong horse now though, we are going to lose out big time next year. He says the start of the season isn't down to roy because its Rafa's team. Give that team to a top manager and dya think he would produce such an almighty mess? He has failed his own test - how many games do we have to judge him on now?

Great points, Clem. We now have 6 directors. Not one of them has any sort of football experience. However, we do have a former double winning manager in our midst and as I said before about Parry, on the business side the less said the better, but on the football side he did identify Benitez when the obvious money was going on the likes of Curbishley and Strachan. Surely there are people wihin football they can take soundings from.

Roy had the god awful task of being able to field a starting lineup of 11 players who had all been capped by their countries today and only two of them were brought in by him.
I agree with Pellegrini out of the equation now there's an obvious problem of who. Phil Thompson didn't do a bad job standing in for Houllier. Steve Heighway was well respected by the the players he brought through during all his years at the academy including the likes of Fowler, Owen, McManaman, Gerrard, Carra etc.
I think we'd have to go down the caretaker manager route until the Summer and I still have reservations about Kenny taking over. I guess there's no obvious, standout, 'off the top of your head' candidate. At the moment I'd nearly prefer Uncle Roy to the present Roy.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2010, 09:47:08 PM
I have also mentioned Roy Evans these past months.

He'd be a much better bet than Woy.......until at least the summer.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 13, 2010, 09:49:54 PM
As per usual the bitter Rafaites is taking any chance to take a sweep at Roy instead of actually discussing the obvious problems. It wasn't Roy's fault Gerrard had to take that pass to N'Gog so poorly, it wasn't Roy's fault the players committed unforced errors and basic mistakes for 94 minutes. I don't agree with his line up. But surely this game had very little with management to do. Stoke is a crap side I hope to see in the Championship next season. Still, the only quality they have - run like a fornicating fury at every ball - was enough to prevent us from getting into the game. We have too many overpaid primadonnas in this team. You can dream all you want about the Mourinho's and what have you's of the footballing world, it doesn't matter who we get in as these spoilt and lazy players aren't willing to stand up while playing in a red shirt. Just like the derby it was all about pride and willingness to fight. We don't have it in us hence we lose, hence we'll lose quite a number of games between now and May.

Lucas' had like 5 decent and 1 good games the last 3 seasons - yet a regular for Liverpool.
Maxi had 2 good games since signing - yet a regular for Liverpool.
Konchesky - well based on this season's performances he'd struggle to hold down a place in Fulham.
Carragher is a great fighter and have a big heart, but hoofing it 90 % of the time will do little to help this team establish a game of its own.
Meireles - is a very good footballer and would do a lot for this team if played in his correct position which, btw, isn't right midfield. Oh wait, then we'd have to put Lucas on the bench and we can't have that, can we?
Kyrgiakos and Skrtel good enough for now and in games like these (their second goal was all down to Gerrard's error).
Kuijt is also a very good player but didn't perform one thing right tonite.
Torres - I don't know. It's not like he's helping this team winning games. Looks uninterested and unhappy. fork him I say. Move on then, I don't want this club to be held ransom by spoilt brats not willing to give it their all.

All in all this team is extremly weak in terms of quality. We need to realise that and start playing like the shed teams that kick our arses as they please. We're a shed side with a shed squad - no pride, no heart, no quality.

The main problem isn't Roy, the main problem is this club's been splashing out hundreds of millions on lazy and mediocre players who doesn't understand what wearing the red shirt means. I don't care what happens from now on. Until we start signing players with character and integrity I couldn't care less.

This was by far the cuntiest performance of the season. Geeze I'm pissed.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 13, 2010, 09:57:23 PM
Our points tally this season will be between 50-55 points.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2010, 10:24:30 PM
the weakest link is sitting in the dugout.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 10:29:42 PM
As per usual the bitter Rafaites is taking any chance to take a sweep at Roy instead of actually discussing the obvious problems.

As per usual Martin is bringing the previous manager into, yet again, and making misplaced, sweeping assumptions at the same time. Oh, and sorry if that's provocative.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 10:32:37 PM
Our points tally this season will be between 50-55 points.

Where do you think that will enable us to finish, Martin?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 13, 2010, 10:33:33 PM
Where do you think that will enable us to finish, Martin?

7th to 10th.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 13, 2010, 10:40:33 PM
I have also mentioned Roy Evans these past months.

He'd be a much better bet than Woy.......until at least the summer.

interesting call that - what about Roy (Evans) and Kenny combo in some form until summer? Personally I would have Kenny in for sure. I can understand some people's doubts because he has been out of the game a while, but we have to be careful were not being  sold  Sky Sports mantra that football began in 1992 and is transformed beyond all recognition since we were kings. Its nonsense - none of our back four would get anywhere near the 78/9 record breakers...Lucas would not keep Souness out of the side etc, and Kenny still knows football, has a true red heart and is willing to help. I dont think it matters what we think tbh. Henry has said he expects Roy H to be here this time next season, so he clearly is a ways away from becoming a football man just yet.  Does he not get any advice from within the club at all? What is needed is some of that 'listening to the fans' Henry has bleated on about, and fast.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 10:44:57 PM
7th to 10th.

OK, thanks. Very interesting. So if that then leads to no European football next season, where does that then leave us as a club?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2010, 10:50:52 PM
Henry has said he expects Roy H to be here this time next season, so he clearly is a ways away from becoming a football man just yet.  Does he not get any advice from within the club at all? What is needed is some of that 'listening to the fans' Henry has bleated on about, and fast.

I'd have Roy back, Clem.  I'd also definitely have John Aldridge at Anfield, in some bootroom/coaching type capacity.  For me, he would be a lifetime employment. 

Kenny's time has come and gone IMHO     

As for John Henry.........that type of driven individual won't give Roy much longer imho
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 13, 2010, 10:59:42 PM
OK, thanks. Very interesting. So if that then leads to no European football next season, where does that then leave us as a club?

Where it is and have been heading for years.

True, Henry comes across as a driven gentleman. He also appears to be smart and sacking Roy without having forked out a long-term strategy may cause more problems than it solves. Surely Henry could see for himself the poor quality in the squad tonite and distinghish between that and Roy's weaknessess as a manager.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 13, 2010, 11:02:01 PM
true, Dude. Only drawback with Evans was defence. His teams were really imbalanced sometimes - Kvarme, Razor and Babb were his. We were awesome going forward but if his team could defend properly we would have been champions in 96. Dont think he has the energy we need at the minute, not on his own.  Hope youre right about Henry, Dude, and he isn't approaching this season in the way he thinks would please the fanbase - by which I mean, exhibiting an adherence to stability and continuity and free of drama. Would make sense to an outsider. But what the Kop really wants is a dynamic new force in the dug-out to match the dynamic new force in the boardroom - he hasn't realised the desire for change at the club yet. I honestly think that by keeping faith in Roy he thinks he is giving the club the Liverpool Way back after it was shed all over by the previous yanks. Nice sentiment, but wrong. we are dying to get behind the right man.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2010, 11:21:53 PM
what the Kop really wants is a dynamic new force in the dug-out to match the dynamic new force in the boardroom - he hasn't realised the desire for change at the club yet. I honestly think that by keeping faith in Roy he thinks he is giving the club the Liverpool Way back after it was s*** all over by the previous yanks. Nice sentiment, but wrong. we are dying to get behind the right man.

totally agree, Clem.

given the events of the past few seasons, I worry that we turn into a newcastle.....that is, the fans get too dominant in the thoughts of the owners/decision makers.  That scennario means regular sackings and no stability.  Stability is the key to long term success.

I am not sure that Henry will pay too much heed, at least in the short term, to the Liverpool way.  I do feel that he will not be a big talker in the media - which I like.  And on that same token, I am not sure that Henry will appreciate Roy's regular rants in the media.

You're right.  We need a new manager who we can all get behind.  It needs to be a top up-and-coming, or well established, european man.  Roy was a blip....a mistake.  Let's not go down that local road again, by appointing say someone like harry rednapp to replace him. 

Pelligini, Hiddink, Hetzfeld, are my three choices.  Scolari might be worth a shout too.



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 11:54:02 PM
Sean O'Driscoll.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 14, 2010, 12:28:47 AM
Albert Finney.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 14, 2010, 01:37:26 AM
Sean O'Driscoll has Doncaster Rovers excelling whilst playing some fantastic football. And unlike Halmstads, they haven't gone two years without winning away.  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 14, 2010, 07:49:25 AM
why did I think sean O'Driscoll was an Irish rugby player???
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 14, 2010, 08:23:38 AM
why did I think sean O'Driscoll was an Irish rugby player???

Clem, you were thinking of Brian O'Driscoll.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on November 14, 2010, 08:26:31 AM
The squad needs a few additions...rafa left a squad with Mascherano, Benayoun and Insua included..those 3 going was down to purslow balancing the books...that was not down to Rafa...
Allowing aquilani to go on loan was down to Roy...you can't bleat about the weakness of the squad when you give away your players...spending 5 mil on konchesky is all very well for fulham but when pennant looks like christiano ronaldo against you you know you;re having a bad day...

Motivation is down to the manager, you can blame rafa all you want, but 7 of the players yesterday were in the squad that thrashed manure 4-1 less than 2 years ago...on that day the players responded to Rafa and trusted him...the 7 who played yesterday didn't respond to the current manager...

Drive and determination in players is a must and that i think Torres and Gerrard and on certain days Carra can be primadonna's...there is a fine line between wanting to win and losing faith with a manager...they began to show distrust in the last 6 months of Rafa's reign...that they are already doing the same with Roy says it all...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 14, 2010, 08:31:53 AM
Sean O'Driscoll has Doncaster Rovers excelling whilst playing some fantastic football. And unlike Halmstads, they haven't gone two years without winning away.  :D

honestly......truth be told, I thought (like Clem) that you were referring to an irish rugby player.

I googled for wikipedia last night, with o'driscoll and rugby

 :D

PS - I am still up, Saturday night (drinking beer and wine here, 4.30am in central america.............my cat laying sleeping beside me here on the bed......darkness, but for light of thelaptop, and thetv in the corner)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 14, 2010, 08:36:30 AM
i think Torres and Gerrard and on certain days Carra can be primadonna's...there is a fine line between wanting to win and losing faith with a manager.

I agree, barticus.

carra is well past his sell by date..........but if it came to a war, I'd want Carra fighting beside me in the trenches.

I sadly can't say the same for Torres or Captain Marvel. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Redman on November 14, 2010, 08:46:47 AM
God that was dire yesterday  >:( I wanted to run over and put my foot thru the tv and that was only in the 1st half, if I see Roy chin scratching again I swear I'll put him on my stab list  ;)
Just to point out I only read the threads from the previous page and someone mentioned Roy Evans as a stop gap, well in case people have forgotten here's a little fact, when Roy was manager we never finished outside the top 4 and as someone else mentioned he just couldn't find a decent defence with a map, which was a pity
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 14, 2010, 09:15:14 AM
God that was dire yesterday  >:( I wanted to run over and put my foot thru the tv and that was only in the 1st half, if I see Roy chin scratching again I swear I'll put him on my stab list  ;)
Just to point out I only read the threads from the previous page and someone mentioned Roy Evans as a stop gap, well in case people have forgotten here's a little fact, when Roy was manager we never finished outside the top 4 and as someone else mentioned he just couldn't find a decent defence with a map, which was a pity

Redman, that was always the odd thing with Roy Evans, especially as he was a left back before injury cut short his career. What's your view of Phil Thompson as a stop gap 'til the Summer, as mentioned in this thread?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Redman on November 14, 2010, 09:24:33 AM
I don't think that would be a bad option either, remember Phil was in charge for most of the season when Hulahoop fell ill, we finished that season with our highest ever points tally in the Premiership if I'm not mistaken, well up until Rafa arrived  ;D He's Liverpool thru and thru, only downside is will the players take to him, remember the falling out with Fowler during the training ground incident and Fowler was shipped out.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 14, 2010, 09:37:42 AM
I don't think that would be a bad option either, remember Phil was in charge for most of the season when Hulahoop fell ill, we finished that season with our highest ever points tally in the Premiership if I'm not mistaken, well up until Rafa arrived  ;D He's Liverpool thru and thru, only downside is will the players take to him, remember the falling out with Fowler during the training ground incident and Fowler was shipped out.

phil would be a good care-taker, til the summer.

as for robbie........robbie (tho I loved him in those early years) could be a bit of a tit.....not unlike his mate, mcmananamananamman.

phil is a top bloke.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 14, 2010, 09:41:23 AM
I don't think that would be a bad option either, remember Phil was in charge for most of the season when Hulahoop fell ill, we finished that season with our highest ever points tally in the Premiership if I'm not mistaken, well up until Rafa arrived  ;D He's Liverpool thru and thru, only downside is will the players take to him, remember the falling out with Fowler during the training ground incident and Fowler was shipped out.

Hopefully being older, he'll have mellowed and learned from his previous experience. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 14, 2010, 12:16:48 PM
Motivation is down to the manager, you can blame rafa all you want, but 7 of the players yesterday were in the squad that thrashed manure 4-1 less than 2 years ago...on that day the players responded to Rafa and trusted him...the 7 who played yesterday didn't respond to the current manager...

During Rafa's 6 years we had a 3 and a half month spell where we played to our absolute maximum. During that spell we beat ManU 4-1. Chosing that game as being representative for the level we played to under Rafa ain't just dishonest, it's incorrect. 

Drive and determination in players is a must and that i think Torres and Gerrard and on certain days Carra can be primadonna's...there is a fine line between wanting to win and losing faith with a manager...they began to show distrust in the last 6 months of Rafa's reign...that they are already doing the same with Roy says it all...

This is more like it. I think you're making a very valid point and as far as my criticism of Roy goes I am disappointed that he hasn't managed to instill more passion and fighting spirit in the squad.

On a more general note I would say the main reason to our failure this season is our reluctance to realise how good, or poor, we really are. Yesterday's game, just like the derby, was all about passion and fighting spirit. ManU and Chelsea manage to tackle these situations and teams by relying on the quality they possess. That, in turn, allows them to stick to their gameplan. We do not have the same quality in the squad yet we turn up with the idea we're such a good team some old pass'n move footy will secure us the points. That's delusional to say the least.

It's easy really, we're a mediocre team. That means, on our day we can play very good football against the best sides as our win against Chelsea is evidence of. It also means we aren't that much better, or have that much better player than most of the team we face during the course of a season. In those games opponents will, just like Stoke and Everton, rely on passion and fighting spirit. We need to learn to play the same way as they do. Only then will we give ourselves a genuine chance to pick up maximum points.

That won't happen tho with the large number of overpaid primadonnas populating our squad. We need to ask ourselves: "What character should a Liverpool player posess? What are the core values?". We need to sign honest players with honest morals. Most of our players seem willing to win trophies but reluctant to put in the hard work it requires.

And having to listen to people suggesting Hiddink, Hitzfeld and even Scolari... well I don't even know where to start. One thing's clear tho, those people haven't learnt one thing the last decade. My view is the most important thing right not is to get a manager in who understands the sociology of football, i.e., a manager who understand and appreciate the value of establishing an identity on which future success can be built. ManU will probably suffer for years on end once Fergie retires, but God did they have plenty to cheer about while he was still in charge?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on November 14, 2010, 03:13:37 PM
During Rafa's 6 years we had a 3 and a half month spell where we played to our absolute maximum. During that spell we beat ManU 4-1. Chosing that game as being representative for the level we played to under Rafa ain't just dishonest, it's incorrect. 

I wouldn't say we could narrow it down to a 3 and a half month spell...larger than that...we had been playing well in Europe for quite a while before the 3 and a half months...
..in Europe us getting to 2 CL finals, those momentous games against barca and Real...us becoming number one in Europe...
Agreed though that in the league we didnt have as many highlights...but that 3 and a half months did show what those players were capable of when we had belief, passion and trust in the manager...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 17, 2010, 09:52:04 PM
West Ham on Saturday:


Liverpool FC's Fabio Aurelio could return against West Ham

Nov 17 2010


Liverpool FC defender Fabio Aurelio is in contention to return in this weekend’s Barclays Premier League clash against West Ham.

The Brazilian left-back stepped up his comeback from injury with a 75-minute run-out for the reserves on Tuesday night.

Aurelio has not played for the first team since August 26 due to Achilles and groin problems but has now declared himself fit.

The 31-year-old said: "I have been training well and I was in the squad for the Stoke game but didn’t make the bench. Hopefully I can play on Saturday.

"It has been frustrating not to play but I have been working hard and kept my confidence up."


http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/football-news/2010/11/17/liverpool-fc-s-fabio-aurelio-could-return-against-west-ham-55578-27670781/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/football-news/2010/11/17/liverpool-fc-s-fabio-aurelio-could-return-against-west-ham-55578-27670781/)

Both left side positions should be up for grabs. Hopefully Fabio can brig some improvement to one of them.

Having won our last home game, against the team at the top, will there be any fall out if we disasterously lose to the team at the bottom in the next home game? Let's hope there's no reason for any.
We need to be let off the leash a bit and get a confidence boosting win and in some style too.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 17, 2010, 10:03:36 PM
Gerrard hobbled off in the 82nd minute clutching his right hamstring. Must be a major doubt for Saturday. It was only a matter of time before he or Torres got injured. All that for a meaningless friendly against le Frogs which we lost 1-2.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 17, 2010, 10:13:49 PM
Gerrard hobbled off in the 82nd minute clutching his right hamstring. Must be a major doubt for Saturday. It was only a matter of time before he or Torres got injured. All that for a meaningless friendly against le Frogs which we lost 1-2.

Meireles and Lucas centre mid, Aurelio on the left, move Maxi to where he should be, on the right. Step forward Pacheco to provide the bullets for your fellow countryman.

What exactly is the need for all these friendly dates, apart from money?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 17, 2010, 11:10:49 PM
That lineup sounds positive Tes but I doubt Roy will choose it. These dates are decided by FIFA/UEFA. It can only be for money-making opportunities. How on earch can the French turn around their dire WC performances in 4 months whereas we appear to go backwards albeit with a weakened team?

At least Fabio kept well away from umbrellas!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 17, 2010, 11:14:54 PM
How on earch can the French turn around their dire WC performances in 4 months whereas we appear to go backwards albeit with a weakened team?

The person I was pushing to replace Rafa until he got the French job - Laurant Blanc.

I worry he'll end up as Taggart's replacement, or Taggart's replacement's replacement.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 17, 2010, 11:41:12 PM
The person I was pushing to replace Rafa until he got the French job - Laurant Blanc.

I worry he'll end up as Taggart's replacement, or Taggart's replacement's replacement.

to be honest I think there is probably about 20 managers all eying Fergies job an thinking to themselves "its definitely my job when hes gone".

Maureen has been l*cking united holes for years now. What I found funny then is Fergie coming out saying in the last year to give the united job to David Moyes when hes gone. Moyes obviously would have never touted for it. I'd say that hurt the likes of Maureens ego. I'd even say the likes of Bruce, Hughes, Fat Sam all think they have a chance.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 17, 2010, 11:45:58 PM
maureen will walk into the united job.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 17, 2010, 11:48:09 PM
maureen will walk into the united job.

He will dude but hes been saying all the right things ever since the moment he left chelsea.

I'd love to see him being overlooked.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 17, 2010, 11:52:10 PM
maureen will walk into the united job.

And then out again, pretty quickly after a title or two, before his bubble bursts.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 17, 2010, 11:57:14 PM
to be honest I think there is probably about 20 managers all eying Fergies job an thinking to themselves "its definitely my job when hes gone".

Maureen has been l*cking united holes for years now. What I found funny then is Fergie coming out saying in the last year to give the united job to David Moyes when hes gone. Moyes obviously would have never touted for it. I'd say that hurt the likes of Maureens ego. I'd even say the likes of Bruce, Hughes, Fat Sam all think they have a chance.

It's great to watch isn't it? I think they'll be a touch cuter than to give it to one of the obvious 'names' though. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 18, 2010, 12:16:57 AM
He will dude but hes been saying all the right things ever since the moment he left chelsea.

I'd love to see him being overlooked.

And then out again, pretty quickly after a title or two, before his bubble bursts.

he is probably the most successful manager in europe these past ten years........albeit, with healthy transfer budgets most years.

he is relatively young..........if he stays ambitious, I fear what he could do at united, over a long period of time.

only saving grace are these financial fair play rules.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 18, 2010, 09:13:23 PM
With Gerrard out for 3-4 weeks and Lucas suspended for West Ham's visit, let's put Aurelio in central midfield, where he has played for us and Valencia before, alongside Meireles, freeing up the right side to try Johnson there, who's now fit again, and let Kuyt play off Torres.
Or is it time to give Jovanovic another run out on the left, or do we play Kuyt on the left, as he does for Holland and give Pacheco thte chance behind Torres?

Is our squad really quite as weak as Roy makes out?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Jas_lfc on November 18, 2010, 10:39:02 PM
With Gerrard out for 3-4 weeks and Lucas suspended for West Ham's visit, let's put Aurelio in central midfield, where he has played for us and Valencia before, alongside Meireles, freeing up the right side to try Johnson there, who's now fit again, and let Kuyt play off Torres.
Or is it time to give Jovanovic another run out on the left, or do we play Kuyt on the left, as he does for Holland and give Pacheco thte chance behind Torres?

Is our squad really quite as weak as Roy makes out?

We have not added 'quality' players for some time now. It speaks volumes that we have not yet been able to replace the likes of Riise. Arbeloa left a gap at RM which Johnsons poor form and injuries have not covered. Mascherano,Alonso and Sisoko breaking that strong midfield and lack of cover up front.

Riera, no matter how poor he was at times, provided an outlet for us when we needed. And Babel has been massively underused off late.

So yes, our squad is weak. But not as bad as Roy has made it look with his inept style of football.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 18, 2010, 11:19:33 PM
So yes, our squad is weak. But not as bad as Roy has made it look with his inept style of football.

Eggzackerly. I'd forgotten about Babbel, an option on the left or right and also Jay Spearing, who's at least tried to play positively when selected. Maybe Spearing instead alongside Meireles and replace Konchesky with Aurelio.

In the respect of the squad looking weak, in that respect Roy's backed his words up by his actions.

Apparently this is Broughton's last game, so I hope Red and Mrs Henk's not there to see him off, as it may inspire another crack to be papered over, giving Roy more time than your average Swiss clock maker.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 19, 2010, 02:28:57 PM
unlike Roy, at least Collinni (not that I ever wanted a director of football) will have more chance of spotting a top rate player.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 20, 2010, 12:02:35 AM
Jay Spearing out with ankle injury for 6 weeks. Looks like Poulsen's back in.  >:(
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 20, 2010, 08:02:40 PM
A win in my taste. That's how we should win games. West Ham totally aweful tho, but you can only beat what's infront of you. If, and that's a big if, we beat the Jews next weekend that would be massive. Doubt it tho and at this point I'd settle for a point.

Thought Poulsen was pretty good today. Meireles MOTM IMHO, tho.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Jas_lfc on November 20, 2010, 08:07:55 PM
Jay Spearing out with ankle injury for 6 weeks. Looks like Poulsen's back in.  >:(

Thanks to west ham's imbecile midfield, Poulsen had a good game for LFC.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 20, 2010, 09:27:23 PM
If, and that's a big if, we beat the Jews next weekend that would be massive.

If it's Hapoel Ramat Gan we're playing, no problems. Bottom with just a point and a -11 goal difference. Hapoel Ironi Kiryat Shmona will be harder, top with 24 points from 11 games. Who decided to put the 39th game in the middle of the season?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 20, 2010, 09:30:50 PM
Meireles MOTM IMHO, tho.

Player played in correct position plays well shocker. Sometimes injury problems force a manager's hand for the better.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 21, 2010, 12:04:57 AM
Thought we were good today. The hammers were a bit rubbish, but Meireles and poulson did well. Good to see Glen back. Ngog played well too.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 21, 2010, 11:08:43 AM
Thought we were good today. The hammers were a bit rubbish, but Meireles and poulson did well. Good to see Glen back. Ngog played well too.

Nicely summed up.

And agreed with the other comments above that you can only beat whats put in front of you.

Saying that West Ham are rooted to the bottom for a reason and we should be drubbing teams like this week in week out. Home wins against sides like this would do little to ease my concerns on Hodgson.

Torres came out and backed him the other day but whats he meant to say when asked the question. Hes hardly going to call for Roys head.

Our goals were well taken but West Ham afforded us far too much time. For Maxis goal Konchesky was allowed to put in a cross without being challenged, the defender stood way off. Maxi stood unmarked in the box.

Dont get me wrong a wins a win and a good performance to go with it but beating a hopeless bottom placed team shouldnt ease pressure on Roy or make up for the fact that the part of his brain that he uses for tactics, substitutions and general decision making on away days is missing.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on November 21, 2010, 01:09:29 PM
13 out of 18 points in the last 6. Not a bad return in my view. And Meirles yesterday put in the best performance by one of our midfielders this year.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on November 21, 2010, 01:18:32 PM
http://www.premierleague.com/page/FormGuide

2nd in the form guide for last six games. And apart from Spurs next week we've havent got a bad set of fixtures for the next 6.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/match/fixtures
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 21, 2010, 01:43:30 PM
Just because the opposition is poor doesn't necessarily mean you will play well. I've lost count over the years how many times we've been dragged down to poor opposition's level.

Right from the outset yesterday we played at a fast tempo and that only comes from confidence. So it looks like the training sessions went well in the week despite several players being away on internatinal duty.

It shouldn't be long now before dude suggests we played well because 'Stevie-me" wasn't playing.  ;)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Redman on November 21, 2010, 02:17:49 PM
He's not wrong ASI, I believe that too many players in the side rely on Gerrard too much, it was the same under Rafa, we played and won a lot of matches with Stevie out, the players around him need to step up to the plate more when he's in the side instead of watching from the sidelines. It was a good performance all round yesterday but particularly from Maxi, Raul, Johnson and Torres. As other have said you can only beat what's in front of you and WHU were very very poor, probably the worst side I've seen this season, my local Sunday pub team could have beaten them yesterday. A hard match next week at the Yids and I'd take a point right now, somehow I think Woy will go back to total defensive mode with Torres up front on his own chasing lost causes and we'll get slaughtered but I really hope I'm wrong and we at least make a game of it.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 21, 2010, 02:33:08 PM
There's truth in your words Redman. Without SG the players do have to take on more responsibility but that doesn't necessarily mean it pans out on the pitch in an improved performance.

What it did mean was that Meireles was brought infield and I hope RH sees that  and starts to work out a system where Meireles and SG can play together to their strengths.

There's no doubt it will be a stern test at WHL next Sunday but whereas Spurs play in the CL midweek we can have a rest.  I think that will have a profound effect on Spurs as they have often failed to get the balance right between CL and Prem games. But I think you're right that RH will revert to one up front which isn't so bad providing we can get a decent supply to Torres.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 21, 2010, 03:20:34 PM
good result, and an opportunity for a team to start to take shape.  I was delighted for lads like Maxi (who I have said can be the business for us), and Moreless.   Johnston played like someone with a firework up his a.ss........he craved to get forward at every opportunity......fine to do that against west ham.......but he will be shown up defensively against better teams. The lad cannot defend at the top level.

only lad not smiling yesterday was torres.  Though even he almost threatened to smile at one point.  He needs to drop the attitude and enjoy his football.  Best game in the world, at the best club in the world, and being paid a fortune for the honour.  FFS smile lad.

we played at a fast tempo.......and as previously seen under Roy, much more crudeness and up-and-at-them than one would normally expect from a Liverpool team.   

And as ASI alludes to, the sky does not collapse when captain marvel isn't around.   :D

Without him, normal team play can start to blossom.  Well played Maxi and Moreless.  And an improvement from Poulsen. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 21, 2010, 04:35:40 PM
Good points. I think he'll stick with yesterday;s team and go 4 4 2 tbh. Hope so anyway. Spurs are good but they leak goals. They're finsdng it hard to play CL and maintain their form at the weekends - we used to be like that too, early doors in CL.  We will kick their asses.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on November 21, 2010, 04:56:54 PM
[quote author=the dude abides link=topic=4012.msg26828#msg26828 date=   

And as ASI alludes to, the sky does not collapse when captain marvel isn't around.   :D

Without him, normal team play can start to blossom.  Well played Maxi and Moreless.  And an improvement from Poulsen.
[/quote]

Premature to say the least. West ham are very poor at the moment. Next weekend will show the men from the boys.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 21, 2010, 05:14:15 PM
Shame Tottingham aren't away in mid week though they'll have to go all out for 3 points in this one as their last game is away to Twente who are only a point between them. Hopefully the combined efforts of that game and the Derby will see them fall to pieces as only Spurs know how.

We need to be positive though and turn round our dire away form. It'll need to be an unHodgson like performance, though a point wouldn't be the end of the world as we don't have the best of records there.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on November 21, 2010, 05:41:43 PM
I agree with u 100% there tes. If we set out to defend all game we're playing into spurs hands.theyll love that. Make them have to concentrate on defending aswell and we've got a chance
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Jas_lfc on November 21, 2010, 06:32:01 PM
We'll get murdered at Spurs. They have the worlds best player. :O
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 21, 2010, 07:27:45 PM
We'll get murdered at Spurs. They have the worlds best player. :O

I thought Poulsen played for us.  ???
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on November 21, 2010, 07:43:37 PM
We'll get murdered at Spurs. They have the worlds best player. :O

He's not in messi's league, but wouldn't u like him down our left?I would
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 21, 2010, 08:12:05 PM
He's not in messi's league, but wouldn't u like him down our left?I would

I'm more worried what he's going to do down our right. Kelly at right back for his defensive qualities and move Johns(t)on forward in the hope of pinning him back.
We need a lairy German (Hans-Peter Briegel where are you when you're needed) to take him out on Wednesday night. Nothing serious, just a couple of weeks to make sure he misses our game
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 21, 2010, 09:21:39 PM
[quote author=the dude abides link=topic=4012.msg26828#msg26828 date=   

And as ASI alludes to, the sky does not collapse when captain marvel isn't around.   :D

Without him, normal team play can start to blossom.  Well played Maxi and Moreless.  And an improvement from Poulsen.


Premature to say the least. West ham are very poor at the moment. Next weekend will show the men from the boys.

it's not as if captain marvel and the shadows have been kicking sand in the faces of even the wigans, stokes and blackpools of this world.  So Spurs will be a helluva step up, especially being away from home.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 21, 2010, 10:00:32 PM
We'll get murdered at Spurs. They have the worlds best player. :O

Igor's back!!?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 21, 2010, 10:21:24 PM
Igor's back!!?

 :D  .....with Eric Meijer and Sean Dundee giving Fernando a lesson in forward play. I can hear Harry Hotpur's knocking knees from hear.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2010, 04:54:19 PM
spurs v liverpool
november 28, 2010

end to end first half.....skitrail has put us ahead.

two friggen awesome chances at the end of the half (one for maxi, one for torres) to put us further ahead.

I hope we do not come to regret those chances being missed.

It is an excellent game.  Spurs do look devastating at times, when Bale runs at us.

But we have constantly offered a threat and are probably deserving of our lead.

half-time - spurs 0, liverpool 1
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 28, 2010, 05:07:42 PM
Ray Clemence is guest summariser on Radio city. Really good from us so far!  Worried about the yellows - maybe Aurelio replace Konchesky at 60-70 mins.  Your call for Maxi behind Torres is looking good. Hope all these missed chances don't haunt us later
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2010, 05:59:03 PM
final score

spurs 2, liverpool 1

 :(
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2010, 06:09:03 PM
Hardly a surprise.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 28, 2010, 06:16:21 PM
We've drawn Manure away in the FA Cup!!!!!! :o
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2010, 06:45:54 PM
woy's wumber is wup.

his wup doth not wover wloweth.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2010, 07:49:26 PM
And Carra's dislocated shoulder means both Captain and vice out at the same time. Another glorious week for us.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 28, 2010, 09:00:13 PM
Sickening result, totally sickening. Should've finished the game off at the end of first half. Spurs were extremly lucky to win this one. shed team if you ask me and they can dream of finishing 4th.

Konchesky need to be benched for quite some time now. That one Roy got wrong.

Meireles he got rigth tho. Awesome performance today.

Maxi Rodrigues' inability to score sitters cost us the points today. Any average player would've scored at least 2 from his chances. Why this hate towards Jovanovic? Because he played against Northampton. Sort it out Roy.

I think tho we played well and based on play we were the better team with some crisp passing for long periods of the game.

Torres got better but started off poorly. He just isn't his old self anymore. Lack the explosive acceleration that used to help him. Maybe the hamstring injuries got to his mind?

All in all a good game where the best side lost.

Should've had at least 2 penos as well but it was clear the ref hate us.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 28, 2010, 09:55:40 PM
Ref was Atkinson wasn't it? He's known to us all.  Yeah, shame about losing because we played well and it sounded like a cracking game.  Bit worrying though that we lost to a team missing some key players.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 28, 2010, 10:01:24 PM
Jamie has a suspected dislocated shoulder and that will be diagnosed tomorrow. If it is then he'll be out for several weeks which is a bad blow.

Soto to fill in for him I think. Aurelio should be started at LB.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 28, 2010, 11:25:54 PM
Agreed ASI. Tell you what though, its gonna be interesting to see what the difference is without Carra. especially after so many people wanted him to play less.  Hopefully Dan will get back soon. Just watched the winner - Konchesky is an embarrassment, he really is. Still optimistic though, that was a great performance and we deserved the win
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 28, 2010, 11:34:00 PM
Clem, I doubt we'll see Agger for a few more weeks. Who will get the armband? Pepe? Don't see any other obvious candidates. That's who I'd give it to.

It was probably our best away performance so far this season so the result is disappointing. But once the players have time to reflect on things they'll know they played some good passing football and all that prevented us from winning was the finishing. Why did Fernando need all those extra touches?

I only spotted this on MoTD2 tonight. As Defoe took the pen the camera behind the goal showed Torres walking towards the centre spot with his back to the play. What was all that about?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on November 29, 2010, 06:43:32 AM
Just saw the game....thought we were good...
Konchesky is a joke...and that's Roy's fault...he shouldnt have been on the field...we all know how slooooooowwwwww konchesky is, so we put him up against Speedy Gonlennon...a brilliant tactical move...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2010, 10:59:20 AM
I only spotted this on MoTD2 tonight. As Defoe took the pen the camera behind the goal showed Torres walking towards the centre spot with his back to the play. What was all that about?

Attitude, ASI. He has two choices, get his head sorted and start playing for LFC and the fans irrespective of who the manager is or hand in a transfer request and leave. He's taking far too much money out of the club to simply go through the motions.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 29, 2010, 12:01:50 PM
Just saw the game....thought we were good...
Konchesky is a joke...and that's Roy's fault...he shouldnt have been on the field...we all know how slooooooowwwwww konchesky is, so we put him up against Speedy Gonlennon...a brilliant tactical move...

It's not a question of pace, it's about being able to read the game,which Paul gave proof he's incapable of. That goes for Carra as well on their first where he was way out of position.

I can live with Glen, but the rest of the back 4 really needs to be replaced. True Carra had his moments yesterday but he's very often a liability committing basic mistakes that cost us dearly. Skrtl isn't good enough nor is Konchesky. Until we sort the defence out we'll struggle.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2010, 12:03:56 PM
Exactly, it's the foundation on which all good teams are built.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 29, 2010, 12:04:14 PM
Attitude, ASI. He has two choices, get his head sorted and start playing for LFC and the fans irrespective of who the manager is or hand in a transfer request and leave. He's taking far too much money out of the club to simply go through the motions.

Echoes my sentiments exactly. If he banged in goas consistently and we kept on dropping points  I could understand his frustrations. But when he only manage a goal every 4th or 5th game and contribute zip, zero, nil inbetween he should either stick with the programme or hand in a transfer request.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2010, 12:08:05 PM
Attitude, ASI. He has two choices, get his head sorted and start playing for LFC and the fans irrespective of who the manager is or hand in a transfer request and leave. He's taking far too much money out of the club to simply go through the motions.

good spot, asi

yes, Tes, torres has to get his attitude sorted.

I have been saying this for a long time.  His demeanour and attitude has been very poor.   He needs to stop acting the primadonna and start doing some hard work for the team.  He is not as good as he himself thinks he is.  I look at him and see a big head that needs taken down a step or two.  The childish sulkiness needs to go.  He should be enjoying his football. 

But given his injuries, he is in no position to be Jack the lad. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on November 29, 2010, 04:07:33 PM
Thought we played well for the majority of the game yesterday. Should have been 3 nil up if Maxi and Nando took their chances.  Gutted with the final result but thought it was our best away performance for a while. And Meireles (a Roy signing) is fast becoming one of our best players.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 29, 2010, 04:19:03 PM
Thought we played well for the majority of the game yesterday. Should have been 3 nil up if Maxi and Nando took their chances.  Gutted with the final result but thought it was our best away performance for a while. And Meireles (a Roy signing) is fast becoming one of our best players.

me too thought there was a lot of encouragement in this game - even Roy played a better formation.  He just needs to get his head sorted about Konchesky - Houllier and rafa both proved to their costs that you can be too loyal to a player who you had faith in. I know its a bad result for any top 4 aspirations we have but if we can play that well every week we will get back in the mix.  Martinmarx youre right about the defence - I don't trust them to do their jobs properly for a full 90 minutes against even half-decent opposition.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 29, 2010, 04:30:50 PM
In fairness to Torres as a pundit pointed out his body language has never been great, he always looks sulky even when he was banging in the goals. His flick to set up Maxi was superb and aside from a bad touch here or there I thought he did okay. He doesnt get service too often and at times its a thankless job for him.

At one point during yesterdays game i actually thought to myself that he deserves to play in a team alot better than this one.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 29, 2010, 04:38:18 PM
Aside from the result which i predicted would be 1-1 I thought we played very much like i expected. It was a much improved performance, we matched Spurs in most areas. The likes of Konchesky was shown up. I suggested before yesterdays game that we would see an improved performance because we were playing a bigger team and because the players wouldn't need motivation. I believed Roy wouldnt have anything to do with the improvement and I still think thats what happened.

Just like a win is a win when you play badly a loss is a loss no matter how well you play. Lets see how we do against villa next monday.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2010, 07:57:44 PM
We've got a bunch of potential banana skins in the next few league games. They'll prove whether there's substance in yesterday's performance or whether it was just another false down.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on November 29, 2010, 08:01:23 PM
I'd agree very much with that, tes. I have this weird feeling that looking back in a few months time last nite's defeat was the start of a great run. More than anything I think it was important the team could show itself it's capable of dominating a game away from home against a "title contender"  ;D Just need to get a few quality defenders in in January because we so would've won yesterday with a better CB-pairing.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2010, 09:25:00 PM
Roy Hodgson has only nine victories from his past 73 away matches in the Premier League, a sequence that stretches across six seasons and three clubs – Blackburn Rovers, Fulham and now Liverpool.

I don't have the data at hand, regarding goals scored and conceded in those away game.  BUT, I bet Roy's teams were not hammered often when away from home.  They were, for the most, close games I imagine.    Just like against Spurs, and our other away games, we were competitive and there was very little in it.  But the end result is always the same - Roy's team rarely wins away from home.

Roy admits that his approach is the same, both home and away.  He say: "There is certainly no difference in the way we approach the games.  We don't have a home approach and away approach. We want to do the same things with the ball and without the ball home and away. You can't deny that at Anfield the crowd is an advantage and that it spurs people on. Also, you can't deny that decisions go in your favour more when you are at home. That is a fact of life."

THUS, my conclusion is that it is down to tactics.  A top manager can change things around, at crucial moments in games.  I suspect that Roy is weak in this department.  And any changes he does make, are belated ones.....long after the horse has bolted.  A top manager (e.g. Benitez or Mourinho) is proactive.......Roy seems to be reactive (and even them waits too long to take action).

I would be keen to see, across his career, when he brings on subs (and what types of changes he makes with the substitutions).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 30, 2010, 11:45:45 AM
Agreed Dude.

That sounds like Roy has one way of playing football, if plan A doesnt work revert to Plan A.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on November 30, 2010, 12:00:48 PM
Watched Barcelona Real last night. Barcas performance was probably the best Ive seen in the last 20 years.  They were awesome. Barca should be the bench mark that any manager should attempt to reach. They played total football. Its was like the Liverpool teams of old, simple but destructive football, pass and move.

I think the likes of John Henry should earmark a performance like that and say thats the way I want a Liverpool team of the not so distant future to play, now how do I go about achieving that. That way of playing is never going to happen under someone like Roy.

Hes looking at target men like Carlton Cole. Barca had little David Villa leading the line and he was awesome. They dont use a target man because everything is played on the floor. And what I find interesting that Mascherano sat on the bench without playing. Hes doomed at Barca. They rarely need a player to break up play, they want creativity in centre midfield and Busquets seems to be doing that quiet well in place of Masch.

To attempt to emulate a team like Barca are now could take years but the only way to do it is to start planning now and reap the rewards 10 years down the line. To start we need a young dynamic manager with a total footballing philosophy approach. 

As for Torres if he saw last nights game and Barca came back in for him in the summer you really couldnt begrudge him to play in a team like that.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 30, 2010, 12:14:54 PM
Watched Barcelona Real last night. Barcas performance was probably the best Ive seen in the last 20 years.  They were awesome. Barca should be the bench mark that any manager should attempt to reach. They played total football. Its was like the Liverpool teams of old, simple but destructive football, pass and move.

I think the likes of John Henry should earmark a performance like that and say thats the way I want a Liverpool team of the not so distant future to play, now how do I go about achieving that. That way of playing is never going to happen under someone like Roy.

Hes looking at target men like Carlton Cole. Barca had little David Villa leading the line and he was awesome. They dont use a target man because everything is played on the floor. And what I find interesting that Mascherano sat on the bench without playing. Hes doomed at Barca. They rarely need a player to break up play, they want creativity in centre midfield and Busquets seems to be doing that quiet well in place of Masch.

To attempt to emulate a team like Barca are now could take years but the only way to do it is to start planning now and reap the rewards 10 years down the line. To start we need a young dynamic manager with a total footballing philosophy approach. 

As for Torres if he saw last nights game and Barca came back in for him in the summer you really couldnt begrudge him to play in a team like that.

Totally agree Juan, but does Henry have the knowledge to understand football in that way. By going to Billy Beane for advice and getting Comolli, he's already shown he lacks ideas and knowledge on who he should be asking for advice. The board that's been appointed doesn't have a single non-American or football man on it. Likely footballing knowledge there, grand total of zero. Either Dalglish or someone like Trevor Brooking should have been appointed as a non-executive director. If we're going to have a board with such sparse sporting knowledge then they should have appointed a 3 man football board (like Bayern), instead of the Comolli route.
None of the board members have even grown up watching football.

Purslow is still as a consultant type figure. So we have the man who appointed Hodgson and the general manager of a baseball team seemingly as the advisors to our board.

I wonder how many times Wenger and Ferguson have been consulted on to run an ice hockey franchise.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 30, 2010, 12:49:41 PM
i watched the game live too, Juan....superb performance.

simple pass and move, pass and move.  Madrid had no answers.  Wenger would have impressed.

however, I will say that despite it being awesome, the final half hour was unlike liverpool (during our era of dominance) in that barca did take the p**s out of madrid.  A top team doesn't do that, you keep it professional.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 30, 2010, 04:41:55 PM
Totally agree Juan, but does Henry have the knowledge to understand football in that way. By going to Billy Beane for advice and getting Comolli, he's already shown he lacks ideas and knowledge on who he should be asking for advice. The board that's been appointed doesn't have a single non-American or football man on it. Likely footballing knowledge there, grand total of zero. Either Dalglish or someone like Trevor Brooking should have been appointed as a non-executive director. If we're going to have a board with such spa*se sporting knowledge then they should have appointed a 3 man football board (like Bayern), instead of the Comolli route.
None of the board members have even grown up watching football.

Purslow is still as a consultant type figure. So we have the man who appointed Hodgson and the general manager of a baseball team seemingly as the advisors to our board.

I wonder how many times Wenger and Ferguson have been consulted on to run an ice hockey franchise.

couldn't agree mpre. Brilliant  Tes.  Did Mascherano play?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on November 30, 2010, 06:06:27 PM
Mascherano started on the bench, but did a great job. Kind of reminds me of his West Ham days ;) Back to his best. Masch aside, Barcelona were unbelievable. Before the game, with the Mourinho factor i really thought Real were in with a shout. But Barca's football was a masterclass. I actually think La Liga is now the best league in the world and given their tax rates compared to ours, i'm expecting the gap to get bigger in the next couple of years
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on November 30, 2010, 06:43:17 PM
Mascherano started on the bench, but did a great job. Kind of reminds me of his West Ham days ;) Back to his best. 
;D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on November 30, 2010, 07:52:17 PM
;D

At least Mrs M is happy (you'd hope).  ;D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on November 30, 2010, 08:31:49 PM
loved seeing mourinho rooted to his seat, the entire second half.......powerless to do a thing.

resigned to his team's fate.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 01, 2010, 03:09:39 PM
Totally agree Juan, but does Henry have the knowledge to understand football in that way. By going to Billy Beane for advice and getting Comolli, he's already shown he lacks ideas and knowledge on who he should be asking for advice. The board that's been appointed doesn't have a single non-American or football man on it. Likely footballing knowledge there, grand total of zero. Either Dalglish or someone like Trevor Brooking should have been appointed as a non-executive director. If we're going to have a board with such spa*se sporting knowledge then they should have appointed a 3 man football board (like Bayern), instead of the Comolli route.
None of the board members have even grown up watching football.

Purslow is still as a consultant type figure. So we have the man who appointed Hodgson and the general manager of a baseball team seemingly as the advisors to our board.

I wonder how many times Wenger and Ferguson have been consulted on to run an ice hockey franchise.

I agree Tes it does seem short sighted on the owners part to be taking advice from non footballing people and also not to ensure there are footballing people in place to help the ease into the transition from baseball to football.

That said I think the owners are probably taking advice from people they know and trust. And for the time being until they get up to speed thats fair enough for me. I also think thats why Roy is still in a job. I'm sure they have heard from many quarters that Roys not up to the challenge. I just think they dont want to make rash decision, fire Roy and hire the wrong man again.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 01, 2010, 03:14:05 PM
i watched the game live too, Juan....superb performance.

simple pass and move, pass and move.  Madrid had no answers.  Wenger would have impressed.

however, I will say that despite it being awesome, the final half hour was unlike liverpool (during our era of dominance) in that barca did take the p**s out of madrid.  A top team doesn't do that, you keep it professional.

I dont know Dude, I think if Liverpool were playing United and were beating them like Barca humbled Madrid Im not so sure they would ease off either.

Its a big thing with American sports I believe not to attempt to humiliate your opponent if you are winning comfortably.

Even when Manny Paquiao fought Antonio Margarito recently in the Dallas Cowboys stadium, Pacquiao had battered Margarito and could have gone all out for the knockout in the 12th round but instead eased off and just saw out the fight without feeling the need to further hurt his opponent.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 01, 2010, 03:18:45 PM
loved seeing mourinho rooted to his seat, the entire second half.......powerless to do a thing.

resigned to his team's fate.

Only last week did I say if I could have any manager in the world at Liverpool it would be Maureen. How did I not think of Guardiola also.

Who is the mastermind behind Barcas success? Its not Guardiola because this team has been in the making for some time. Hes is obviously an important cog in the wheel but I would like to see what kind of influence he would have on another team and whether he could replicate the same kind of success at Barca elsewhere.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on December 01, 2010, 05:52:14 PM
With the levels of hate between the two clubs of Real and Barca...both would have done the same to each other...
i seem to remember a certain amount of class with manure when we did them 4-1...i have no real problem with opposing hating sides yuking it up against their hated opposition...but i think what people are wary of is the law of sod...that age old law of 'never count yer chickens etc'....

there was an extreme example of this back in about 96...between real and barca...where barca beat real 5-0...only for it to be reversed that season at the bernabeu...the common factor being michael laudrup swapping sides....
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 01, 2010, 09:06:36 PM
Who is the mastermind behind Barcas success? Its not Guardiola because this team has been in the making for some time. Hes is obviously an important cog in the wheel but I would like to see what kind of influence he would have on another team and whether he could replicate the same kind of success at Barca elsewhere.

Juan, I think you answered your own question. To take it further, it will be interesting to see how Rijkaard does at his next job, two on from Barca, considering the hash he made at Gala.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 01, 2010, 10:33:48 PM
interesting issue, Juan and Tes - i.e. who is the mastermind behind awakening Barca (in recent seasons) from her slumber.

one would need to see a breakdown on the source of their team - i.e. how many came through their much-heralded youth system, and who brought the rest of the team's players to the club.  David Villa obviously did not come through their youth system.

I suspect that there are higher forces at work, at the club, re pass and move strategy......than merely the last two managers of the club.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 01, 2010, 10:57:57 PM
interesting issue, Juan and Tes - i.e. who is the mastermind behind awakening Barca (in recent seasons) from her slumber.

one would need to see a breakdown on the source of their team - i.e. how many came through their much-heralded youth system, and who brought the rest of the team's players to the club.  David Villa obviously did not come through their youth system.

I suspect that there are higher forces at work, at the club, re pass and move strategy......than merely the last two managers of the club.

There's 8 or 9 in the squad that are home produced. I think we can go back to when Cruyff was manager to see the real start of their revival. These things take time but you need the right man to bring it altogether on the pitch. Guardiola played under Cruyff.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 03, 2010, 04:22:17 PM
Great news with Kelly and more importantly for me Pacheco signing new contracts;

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/new-deals-for-kelly-and-dani

Liverpool have today confirmed youngsters Dani Pacheco and Martin Kelly have signed new contracts at Anfield.

Pacheco has signed a two year extension taking his contract to 30 June 2014, while Kelly has signed a three year extension, also taking his contract to 30 June 2014.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 03, 2010, 07:04:54 PM
That's excellent news Juan. I'm assuming they would have been given assurances they will get more first team action.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on December 03, 2010, 08:08:31 PM
I don't know really. Seems we're really thin behind the starting XI. I thought Jovanovic played well and truly deserves a run in the PL. Other than that, I'd say mediocre is a flattering way to describe our fringeplayers.

Wilson - say what? I don't understand how he got this far.

Shelvey - He's 18 an'all they say. True. Is he any good tho? Is there anything suggesting he'll come good? No

Pahceco - Se above. + he gave proof how silly and unsubstatial those tireless and pointless "he's-the-hottest-prospect-in-Spanish-footy" claims really are. Slow, immature, and totally without awareness. Pretty nice touch on the ball tho.

Babel - Eh, you heard it all before.

Ngog - wouldn't make a difference coming on for a League 2 side. Yet he's Liverpool's second striker. How Fergie and Wenger keeps a straight face is incredible.

Kelly - best of the kids but I struggle to see him as part of a titlewinning side now or in the future.


I think our performance were pathetic. Here we are, fringeplayers given a chance to prove their case against a mediocre side. Yet they show no will or grit to make it hard for Roy to pick his starting XI. People harp on about Poulsen and Konchesky being poor signings (which they in fairness are). Still this is the heritage of the all mighty Rafa. Not much of a heritage if you ask me. Or as a wise man said upon buying this club: there's plenty of hard work along the road ahead.

Cred to Jova tho for hanging in their and giving it his all after having to watch the worthless Maxi getting picked week in and week out.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 03, 2010, 08:11:34 PM
Great news with Kelly and more importantly for me Pacheco signing new contracts;

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/new-deals-for-kelly-and-dani

Liverpool have today confirmed youngsters Dani Pacheco and Martin Kelly have signed new contracts at Anfield.

Pacheco has signed a two year extension taking his contract to 30 June 2014, while Kelly has signed a three year extension, also taking his contract to 30 June 2014.

At least when Roy sells him we'll got more for him.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on December 03, 2010, 09:40:04 PM
Pacheco is staying  :o...but what about all that I read in the press?


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 03, 2010, 10:45:23 PM
That's excellent news Juan. I'm assuming they would have been given assurances they will get more first team action.

Yeah super news, time to start giving him premiership game time now.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 03, 2010, 10:46:11 PM
At least when Roy sells him we'll got more for him.

Haha its hard not to be a cynic these days
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 03, 2010, 10:50:30 PM
Pacheco is staying  :o...but what about all that I read in the press?

As ASI says they must have promised him game time. He was on the first plane out next January 1st right up until recently.

Maybe its not the work of Roy, maybe someone else at the club sees his potential and moved to keep Pacheco. Its only a theory but Roy never fancied this guy so I dont see why he would give him a new deal.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 03, 2010, 11:01:24 PM
I heard a commentator say something about Babel last night that I found rather typical of the type of abuse some players get, abuse thats sometimes a bit nonsensical.

He was talking about Babel not being a regular for Liverpool this season and he said something like "sure hes only managed one goal for Liverpool this season" as if to say his solitary goal was the reason he wasnt playing and in fact he should have scored more.

Unless Babel can score goals from his couch at home I'm not sure how hes meant to be banging in the goals because for more games than not he hasnt even been on the bench.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 03, 2010, 11:24:36 PM
 :D  It's like when they state a player who is a defender (and a defensive minded one, ala Carra, at that) has only scored 2 goals in four years for his club. Morons. The lot of them.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 03, 2010, 11:39:20 PM
you see this is the problem when football media morons are handed a sheet of data and asked to commentate or analyse.

"I don't know why Bob Paisley doesn't deploy young Phil Neal up front.  He has scored 8 times already this season''

aye, he's our friggen penalty taker, you muppet. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 04, 2010, 12:08:51 AM
I don't usually condone violence but commentators like that should be kicked between the legs, so they share the pain we go through listening to them.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 04, 2010, 12:18:26 AM
I don't usually condone violence but commentators like that should be kicked between the legs, so they share the pain we go through listening to them.

agreed.

modern commentators do my head in.   e.g. clive tysdeley, john motson, jonathan pearce, john champion, etc, etc.  It's all endless spewing....often of data.

and it is often personal and casting aspersions.

oh for the days of barry davies, peter jones, gerald sinstadt, brian moore, etc.

here is a radio clip of the superb peter jones (an awesome authoritative voice who always reminds me of bygone bbc radio)

http://download.guardian.co.uk/sys-video/Media/video/2007/01/19/PeterJones.mpg (http://download.guardian.co.uk/sys-video/Media/video/2007/01/19/PeterJones.mpg)

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 04, 2010, 12:26:33 AM
forgot to mention the great tony gubba (and alan weeks)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 04, 2010, 12:31:09 AM
agreed.

modern commentators do my head in.   e.g. clive tysdeley, john motson, jonathan pearce, john champion, etc, etc.  It's all endless spewing....often of data.

and it is often personal and casting aspersions.

oh for the days of barry davies, peter jones, gerald sinstadt, brian moore, etc.

here is a radio clip of the superb peter jones (an awesome authoritative voice who always reminds me of bygone bbc radio)

http://download.guardian.co.uk/sys-video/Media/video/2007/01/19/PeterJones.mpg (http://download.guardian.co.uk/sys-video/Media/video/2007/01/19/PeterJones.mpg)

Radio 2, Wednesday evenings, listing to our European Cup games.

Peter Jones was the standard. You could see the game in front of you even though it was only a radio commentary.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 04, 2010, 12:36:33 AM
Radio 2, Wednesday evenings, listing to our European Cup games.

Peter Jones was the standard. You could see the game in front of you even though it was only a radio commentary.

agreed.

a couple of years ago, I used to have an mp3, some 15 or so minutes long....of peter jones commentary of the final mins of an anfield game....last game of the season when we won the league title.  i think we were playing astoin villa...maybe won 3 or 4 - one...iirc.  Awesome commentary.....a wordsmith....perfectly described the game and the celebrations.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on December 04, 2010, 07:57:38 AM
agreed.

modern commentators do my head in.   e.g. clive tysdeley, john motson, jonathan pearce, john champion, etc, etc.  It's all endless spewing....often of data.

and it is often personal and casting aspersions.

oh for the days of barry davies, peter jones, gerald sinstadt, brian moore, etc.



Brian Moore was fantastic, what a great voice as well as good impersonal commentary.  Alan Green is the one who makes my blood boil - who does he think he is? Judgemental, arrogant and opinionated.  Like some Refs, such people have ben seduced by their agents that they are celebrities themselves, not a service industry to a celebrated sport!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 04, 2010, 10:37:06 AM
Brian Moore was fantastic, what a great voice as well as good impersonal commentary.  Alan Green is the one who makes my blood boil - who does he think he is? Judgemental, arrogant and opinionated.  Like some Refs, such people have ben seduced by their agents that they are celebrities themselves, not a service industry to a celebrated sport!

Agree with every word, Clem. Modern commentators want to be the star. Tydelsey thinks he's a comedian. He is, but not in the way he thinks.
People like Peter Jones, Brian Moore etc were pros in every sense. The commentary was about the listener/viewer, not the commentator and you could here their sheer love of the sport come through in their commentaries and the emotions they displayed. Alan Green sounds like a disgruntled punter.
Jimmy Armfield is another I loved as a co-commentator. Factual, knowledgeable, impartial. No agenda, no 'hey look at me' cr@p.
 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 04, 2010, 01:42:09 PM
Agree with every word, Clem. Modern commentators want to be the star. Tydelsey thinks he's a comedian. He is, but not in the way he thinks.
People like Peter Jones, Brian Moore etc were pros in every sense. The commentary was about the listener/viewer, not the commentator and you could here their sheer love of the sport come through in their commentaries and the emotions they displayed. Alan Green sounds like a disgruntled punter.
Jimmy Armfield is another I loved as a co-commentator. Factual, knowledgeable, impartial. No agenda, no 'hey look at me' cr@p.

Completely agree.  Some commentators nowadays almost seem to want to take any deflected glory they can from being in football circles.

What kills me the most though is listening to a commentator and knowing they are either a closet or full blown United fan. For me Andy Gray tries to hide his love for United but cant, it oozes out of him no matter what game he is working on. At this stage I reckon he would choose United over Everton.

And why channels employ people like Lou Macari to commentate i dont understand either. Ive heard him do a few Liverpool games and he rarely attempts to leave his anti Liverpool bias to one side. Its blatant.

In the modern era of football I cant think of one commentator that I like. As youve all rightly said its the old school guys that were and still are streets ahead of the rest.

I have to say one program I do like to catch a bit of now and then is soccer Saturday normally with Jeff Stelling, Phil Thompson, Matt Le Tiss, Paul Merson and Charlie Nicholas. Merson and Le Tiss both seem as thick as planks but there is a good chemistry between the lot. Charlie Nicholas hates Liverpool or at least hated Rafa, Merson loves United and Thommo is just Thommo, hearing him praise United and attempt to be sincere is humorous.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 04, 2010, 02:04:17 PM
@ clem.....agreed brian moore was a good commentator.  Tho we do not agree on Alan Green.  My fave double act is alan on the mic, and his friend and co-commentator beside him, jimmy armfield.  I love the pair of them.  And you can hear the respect that the pair have for each other.  If it is a rubbish game, or someone has dropped a clanger, they will tell you.

@ Juan......the bias in modern day commentary/analyse is down to a lack of professionalism in the modern era.  In bygone days, football analysis was something that journalists spent their time on. 

But in modern times, you merely employ some rent-a-gubshite who has just finished his playing career, and who typically couldn't add 2 and 2 together.  Look at Merson or Collymore....or McCoist.......or Houghton, etc, etc.  Thirty years ago these lads would have tried to open a pub, after their careers ended.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 04, 2010, 04:03:52 PM
But in modern times, you merely employ some rent-a-gubs***e who has just finished his playing career, and who typically couldn't add 2 and 2 together.  Look at Merson or Collymore....or McCoist.......or Houghton, etc, etc.  Thirty years ago these lads would have tried to open a pub, after their careers ended.

Some of them would have problems opening a door.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 04, 2010, 09:01:17 PM
Some of them would have problems opening a door.

 :D

they have so much money now, these ex players.......never needing to work again.

I wish they would push off and leave the analyse to a separate industry (i.e. those with analytical skills, journalism skills, and people who do not have to kow-tow to their mates in the footballing profession).

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 05, 2010, 11:51:14 AM
:D

they have so much money now, these ex players.......never needing to work again.

I wish they would push off and leave the analyse to a separate industry (i.e. those with analytical skills, journalism skills, and people who do not have to kow-tow to their mates in the footballing profession).

Their punditry shows why they could never be coaches or managers. Unfortunately, it also means they have to be pundits.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 05, 2010, 03:40:52 PM
Their punditry shows why they could never be coaches or managers. Unfortunately, it also means they have to be pundits.

true.

and very few players would ever be any good at mgt.  I saw that over and over again, during my time playing.  Even the verybest players did not have the first clue as to why a team's approach worked or didn't work.  Sure, they all thought they knew and aired their views quite freely.  But the vast majority of players know fek all about mgt.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on December 05, 2010, 05:20:43 PM
really interesting points fellas.  Is anyone else disappointed in the slow decline of Jocky's 'analysis'?  He seems stuck into a parodic version of what he started like in TV. He was full of insight and wit when he started, now he states the most obvious and banal opinions on MoTD. Shame.  Jimmy Armfield is awesome isn't he?  Can't be doing with the celeb-struck Green but for me Aldo is the best of all.  I agree that tyldesley can be a tool, but he was great in Istanbul.  Merson is the worst of all, the guy despises all things liverpool.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 05, 2010, 09:33:03 PM
clem, I have always disliked hansen's punditry......the same garbage every game....very limited vocabulary.  It is always black or white with such a poor vocab.  A great game or a dire game.  No, Alan, life is full of grey....it doesn't have to be brilliant or dire.

same with lawrenson and shearer......how in under goodness do they get away, week after week, year after year, with this immature mundane pile of rubbish.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 06, 2010, 10:22:53 PM
Good solid performance tonight in a very cold Anfield. -5C at kick-off and ice reported inside press box. Babel and Ngog both played some good stuff and Raul and Johnson also played well. Congrats to Pepe for 100th clean sheet. Nice to hear Kop sing Houllier's name during game.

Have we turned a corner? Maybe, but it needs a couple of away wins before that can be said. Very encouraging all the same. We're playing some nice one-touch football with crisp passing. Light years away from early season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on December 07, 2010, 09:44:53 AM
Good result and good that it was without our 'one man team' gerrard and torres...upto the dizzying heights of 8th...
Might make those 2 think and up their game...
hadn't realised that Torres had new baby thoughts on his mind, we might see a different Fernando now..
all talk of a weak squad from Roy seems to have gone quiet...
playing babel in his favoured position produces dividends shocker...
and interesting to see that Cole doesn't get an instant shoe in to the team...cos let's face it so far he's been pretty tepid...

so now let's see what we can do away from home..

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on December 07, 2010, 12:06:04 PM
Good result indeed tho it has to be said te quality of the game was quite poor to be honest. We continue to be disorganised defensively, something a better team than Villa would've punished us for.

Skrtel was shockingly poor, or maybe just playing to his true leve. He continued to make unforced errors throughout the game.

Also though Kuijt had a poor game where his first touch let him down continously.

Lucas, on the other hand, actually had one of his better games in a red shirt. A reason for this may have been the awayteam's non-existant center midfield.

Ngog took his goal well and set Maxi up nicely for our 3rd. Other than that he' very often a very slow and inconsisten performer.

Babel probably need  few starts before he can be fairly judged. Took his goal very nicely tho. His decisionmaking isn't his strongest aspect of his game tho.

All in all this win could set us up nicely for a very good run that could see our season get back on track. Take a look at the upcoming 9 games.

Newcy (a)
Fulham (h)
Blackpool (a)
Wolves (h)
Bolton (h)
Blackburn (a)
Everton (h)
Wolves (a)
Stoke (h)

That's 27 points at stake. I'm gonna stick my neck out and claim at least 23 of them are possible if not likely. If we dmanag to go on such a patch we'll be in the run for 4th with a shout going into the last 3rd of the season. For instance, Spurs ain't that good on the road. During their upcoming 9 games they'll play away from WHL 5 times and 4 times at home of which 2 of those homegames are against Chelsea and ManU. City too have 5 awaygames in their upcoming 9 games altho a slightly easier schedule than spurs.

I for one haven't given up on 4th just yet (which I had by this time last year despite "guarantees" we'd ge it).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 07, 2010, 12:15:59 PM
Agreed ASI and Bart good performance especially as you pointed out that we are missing some of the big guns.

And even though it was a wretched Villa performance they still turned us over last year and on their day are capable of beating anyone (except Man United because they always capitulate against them).

So it seems a couple of things are being ironed out at the moment and shocker Babel gets that run up front ( be it one game) that he was promised before Christmas. Glen Johnson was super in defense and attack. I would love to see him deployed further up the field because he glides past players effortlessly. He could be a 10 goal a season man from midfield because he creates chances for himself as well as others.

Dude will probably start shouting I told you all so at me when I say this  :D but Lucas and Miereles do seem to step up when Gerrards not playing. Is it time to partner Gerrard up front with Torres again? For me I dont think so, I believe its time for Gerrard and Raul to form that central midfield partnership but Lucas does at times make a case.

Ngog seems to be maturing too. Does he deserve a run in the side? When the likes of Gerrard and Torres come back is it a case of they have to force their way into the squad when the others play well like last night or do they just assume their normal position in the starting line-up.

Last night showed the big Greek is a very able replacement for Carragher and even offers an attacking threat at corners where Jamie wouldnt. Is it time Carras weened out of the team. At this stage I'd consider him a squad player and if we are seriously to challenge going forward we need someone like Shawcross to come in and take Carras place. I'm not sure Roy has the b*lls to make that call and will leave Jamie in there playing until he decides to call time on his automatic selection himself.

I think the one thing we can see from the results against Chelsea, West Ham, Villa etc is that Roy is very capable of getting his teams to play at home. For any top 4 club though predominantly winning most home games is a given. Can Roy transform the team into one whose away form is equally as good as its home? Well to be consistent top 4 contenders or dare to say challenging for the league away form has to be on par with home. I'm not sure Roys track record or away results to date show hes capable of that.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 07, 2010, 04:29:48 PM
Even if we do take a lead he still has us scampering back into our defensive shells too quickly.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 07, 2010, 05:17:42 PM
Even if we do take a lead he still has us scampering back into our defensive shells too quickly.
Tes, I saw no evidence of that last night. Were we watching the same game?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 07, 2010, 06:18:10 PM
ASI, I wasn't meaning specifically last night but in general, though listening to it on 5 live as I was trying to get the bath waste pipe unfrozen, it didn't sound as though we really took it to them in the second half as we did in the first.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 07, 2010, 06:41:02 PM
ASI, I wasn't meaning specifically last night but in general, though listening to it on 5 live as I was trying to get the bath waste pipe unfrozen, it didn't sound as though we really took it to them in the second half as we did in the first.
Thanks for clarifying that Tes. I agree that there were times when Villa kept the ball and just passed it around their back four without crossing the half-way line. Probably explains why their possession was 50% in a game where they had one serious attack.

It was a seriously cold night as your post confirms and I'm sure that had a bearing on the game. What I saw last night was light years away from how we played a couple of months ago and although it was at home the performance at Spurs has me thinking that Roy's tactics are starting to kick in. The movement for Ngog's goal and Maxi's third were excellent and although Babel was technically offside he still had plenty of work to do to score.

To be honest I'm not bothered about the manager's position as I have no control over it. If we continue to improve and start winning away games as well as those at home then that will keep me happy and more importantly, the players will be happy. And happy players will play better than unhappy ones. See Chelsea for that!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 07, 2010, 07:54:09 PM
If we continue to improve and start winning away games as well as those at home then that will keep me happy and more importantly, the players will be happy. And happy players will play better than unhappy ones. See Chelsea for that!

And we seem to win when we play a more positive game (final third '08/'09 season). I think this is where the problems started from. Season '09/'10 it's back to the 'cautious' approach. Likewise this season, where we were more positive against Blackburn, better results (at least at home) followed and a more positive approach nearly paid dividends against Spurs. It needs to be continued away from home as well as at home and for 90 minutes.

If we don't like watching turgid tactics then how must the players feel having to play that way.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 07, 2010, 09:26:09 PM
Indeed Tes but to play that style of football requires a degree of confidence which has been lacking. It's the way Manure have played for years much as it pains me to say it and if we continue to play that style who knows how it will all end. Positively hopefully.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 07, 2010, 09:52:31 PM
Indeed Tes but to play that style of football requires a degree of confidence which has been lacking. It's the way Manure have played for years much as it pains me to say it and if we continue to play that style who knows how it will all end. Positively hopefully.

Confidence can come from belief in the way you're asked (or allowed) to play, likewise if you don't believe in the way you're being asked to play and results aren't being achieved that adds to the downward spiral of an erosion of confidence and further reinforcement of non-belief in the method.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 07, 2010, 10:18:28 PM
I forsee a lot more of the former and not much of the latter although we will still lose games when we are playing well and win some when we aren't. Such is football.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 07, 2010, 11:16:14 PM
although we will still lose games when we are playing well and win some when we aren't. Such is football.

That's an absolute given and I totally agree with you, ASI and it's what makes football the game we all love. I think managers sometimes, especially when they come into a club, try to fit the players into a certain pattern of play instead of playing a way that utilises the combined strengths and qualities of the available players. Both with Rafa and now Roy, we've seen pretty conclusively that playing a more positive style, going out with the winning intent, suits this group of players better (whether it's because of or depite the manager's instructions). They have the ability to do it.  The Hull game where we went 2-0 down early on, then actually start to play aggressive, positive football, getting back on level terms and totally dominating the game, is always the example I think of. Then half time comes and they came out for the second half and had obviously been reined in by Rafa, instead of being allowed to play the second half in the same way as they'd play the last 20 minutes of the first half. 

It's what we've said of Glenn Johnson. He would flourish in the same way as Gareth Bale has at Spurs. Rednapp has just used pure, simple common sense. Although it seems obvious, so often it doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 08, 2010, 05:01:05 PM
Tes, I vaugely remember that Hull game but clearly not as well as you. I suppose you can understand where managers come from because it's their head on the block when they get it wrong and if it goes well the players get the credit.

You wonder why so many decide management is a worthwhile career! Newcastle are there for the taking on Saturday so we should go out with a positive 4-4-2 and if Fernando wants a few more days at home with the missus and Leo then let him have it.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 08, 2010, 06:29:05 PM
Tes, I vaugely remember that Hull game but clearly not as well as you. I suppose you can understand where managers come from because it's their head on the block when they get it wrong and if it goes well the players get the credit.

You wonder why so many decide management is a worthwhile career! Newcastle are there for the taking on Saturday so we should go out with a positive 4-4-2 and if Fernando wants a few more days at home with the missus and Leo then let him have it.

There's a definate inbalance between blame and praise and that's before the media have stirred the pot.

It's probably a good time to be playing Newcastle, even if they do get the new man installed in time. Pardew in, Hughton out. Defies logic.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 08, 2010, 10:06:46 PM
Mike Ashley is in the same bracket as Hicks and Gillette when it comes to running a football club
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 08, 2010, 10:21:54 PM
Mike Ashley is in the same bracket as Hicks and Gillette when it comes to running a football club

Is it 'Mike Ashley' or is it just Freddie Shephard cunningly disguised? Have the two been seen in the same room together since 'Mike Ashley' took over?

Shephard actually came out today and congratulated Ashley for what he'd done - the evidence is mounting.

And Pardew is the replacement - case proven.

The hunt is on in all Sportsdirect buildings to find the real 'Mike Ashley'.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 09, 2010, 04:28:45 PM
I have always been mystified as to how Mike Ashley ever was a successful business man.

Their manager worked miracles, got them promotion at the first ime of asking, has them sitting nicely in mid-table on their fiurst season back in the top flight, and he gets the bullet.

Ashley cites the need for change and to bring in an experienced manager.  And they bring in Alan Pardew.  Friggen Alan Pardew. 

If I was ever mad enough to invest in football, Newcastle is the type of club I would take over.  They have a passionate fanbase, but sadly the club has nearly always been run badly.  There is so much potential up there in the north east.  But morons run the club.   Like, who in their right bluddy minds sacks Bobby Robson?  And for what - because Newcastle ONLY finished 5th.  Morons, absolute morons.  Shepherd and Ashley. 

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 11, 2010, 01:20:20 AM
I have always been mystified as to how Mike Ashley ever was a successful business man.

Their manager worked miracles, got them promotion at the first ime of asking, has them sitting nicely in mid-table on their fiurst season back in the top flight, and he gets the bullet.

Ashley cites the need for change and to bring in an experienced manager.  And they bring in Alan Pardew.  Friggen Alan Pardew. 

If I was ever mad enough to invest in football, Newcastle is the type of club I would take over.  They have a passionate fanbase, but sadly the club has nearly always been run badly.  There is so much potential up there in the north east.  But morons run the club.   Like, who in their right bluddy minds sacks Bobby Robson?  And for what - because Newcastle ONLY finished 5th.  Morons, absolute morons.  Shepherd and Ashley.

Sheppard and Ashley could have been seperated at birth. They've sacked a manager who got them promoted at the first time of asking and had them sitting very comfortably mid-table, who the players all respected and played for to replace him with a manager who took Charlton down and probably would have made it two successive relegation seasons if he hadn't been sacked and was unable to repeat the feat the man he replaces was able to achieve, nearly did the same with West Ham and was sacked from Southampton in September.
4 clubs, the last 3 he's been sacked from. And why now? Why not say 'thanks for getting us promoted but we need a more experienced manager', back in May. Why suddenly decide now he's not experienced enough? He's more experienced now than he was in May or August when the season kicked off. There's much more experienced managers below him in the league.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 11, 2010, 05:52:04 PM
grrrr, game not on live here.

perchance, anyone got a live tv channel link to the game?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 05:54:13 PM
1-0 Newcastle. New manager bounce?

Listening on the wireless here dude, sorry.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 11, 2010, 05:55:58 PM
found one

http://www.espa.tv/embed.php?channel=amor10&width=780&height=560 (http://www.espa.tv/embed.php?channel=amor10&width=780&height=560)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 11, 2010, 05:57:40 PM
1-0 Newcastle. New manager bounce?

Listening on the wireless here dude, sorry.

cannae beat the wireless, ASI.

giving our age away here :)

aye, one nil down......no surprises to be honest.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 06:02:39 PM
Thanks for the link dude. About 30 secs delay with pictures over wireless.  :(
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 11, 2010, 06:13:28 PM
newcastle are having the best of it  :(

pretty poor fare from liverpool.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 06:16:24 PM
Agreed. Hoofing balls upfield again. Just lost the live feed. :-(
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 06:19:15 PM
Big Greek headed just wide. Excellent chance. 1-0 at HT.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 11, 2010, 06:29:57 PM
Agreed. Hoofing balls upfield again. Just lost the live feed. :-(

yes, link went down here too.

this link might work when the 2nd half begins

http://www.domacifilmovi.us/myp/ch4.php (http://www.domacifilmovi.us/myp/ch4.php)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 11, 2010, 06:32:41 PM
or these

http://atdhe.net/30455/watch-newcastle-united-vs-liverpool (http://atdhe.net/30455/watch-newcastle-united-vs-liverpool)

http://soccerjumbo-ml.blogspot.com/2009/12/channel-1.html (http://soccerjumbo-ml.blogspot.com/2009/12/channel-1.html)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 11, 2010, 06:34:38 PM
this one seems the best

http://www.domacifilmovi.us/myp/ch4.php (http://www.domacifilmovi.us/myp/ch4.php)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 07:00:09 PM
The links are telling me I need to install some software before I can watch. I'll pass but thanks anyway.

1-1 now but Newcastle have brought on a speedy forward who is causing us some problems. Time for Babel?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 11, 2010, 07:26:26 PM
time for Roy to go.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 07:26:40 PM
3-1 Newcastle. Bugger. I'd drop Torres next game and play Ngog / Babel. This poor away form was there most of last season too so Roy can't be blamed exclusively. It's just convenient to use it because of his away form with Fulham.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 07:27:46 PM
time for Roy to go.
However much it's called for it won't happen this season unless our home form collapses and that doesn't seem likely.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 11, 2010, 07:31:33 PM
3-1 Newcastle. Bugger. I'd drop Torres next game and play Ngog / Babel. This poor away form was there most of last season too so Roy can't be blamed exclusively. It's just convenient to use it because of his away form with Fulham.

woy's woeful away record goes way beyond his time at fulham.

He has has had six seasons in English football in the last 15 years.  In all of that time though he has a quite incredible statistic of racking up only 13 away wins.

1997/98 – Blackburn Rovers - 5 Away wins – Finished 6th
1998/99 – Blackburn Rovers – 0 Away wins – Sacked when 20th
2007/08 – Fulham – 3 Away wins – Finished 17th
2008/09 – Fulham – 3 Away wins – Finished 7th
2009/10 – Fulham – 1 Away win – Finished 12th
2010/11 – Liverpool – 1 Away win – Currently 9th (on goal difference)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 11, 2010, 07:48:53 PM
Roy has no plan B when plan A doesnt work.

4th is gone. I cant see us finding the consistency to catch the top teams.

Sack Roy now and give the new manager time to settle and a realistic chance of achieving something next year.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on December 11, 2010, 08:02:57 PM
Good result indeed tho it has to be said te quality of the game was quite poor to be honest. We continue to be disorganised defensively, something a better team than Villa would've punished us for.

Skrtel was shockingly poor, or maybe just playing to his true leve. He continued to make unforced errors throughout the game.

Also though Kuijt had a poor game where his first touch let him down continously.

Lucas, on the other hand, actually had one of his better games in a red shirt. A reason for this may have been the awayteam's non-existant center midfield.

Ngog took his goal well and set Maxi up nicely for our 3rd. Other than that he' very often a very slow and inconsisten performer.

Babel probably need  few starts before he can be fairly judged. Took his goal very nicely tho. His decisionmaking isn't his strongest aspect of his game tho.

All in all this win could set us up nicely for a very good run that could see our season get back on track. Take a look at the upcoming 9 games.

Newcy (a)
Fulham (h)
Blackpool (a)
Wolves (h)
Bolton (h)
Blackburn (a)
Everton (h)
Wolves (a)
Stoke (h)

That's 27 points at stake. I'm gonna stick my neck out and claim at least 23 of them are possible if not likely. If we dmanag to go on such a patch we'll be in the run for 4th with a shout going into the last 3rd of the season. For instance, Spurs ain't that good on the road. During their upcoming 9 games they'll play away from WHL 5 times and 4 times at home of which 2 of those homegames are against Chelsea and ManU. City too have 5 awaygames in their upcoming 9 games altho a slightly easier schedule than spurs.

I for one haven't given up on 4th just yet (which I had by this time last year despite "guarantees" we'd ge it).

Well we were atrocious tonight!!!!

Anyway else notice we only had good penetrative attacking movements when we were losing?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 11:27:19 PM
I've just watched the highlights on MoTD. Their 1st goal was offside. Our equaliser was fortunate. For their second our defence was all at sea and no-one closed Carroll down for the 3rd. Given the events of the week they were clearly pumped up. Probably the worst time to play them.

So what would our experts suggest for a plan B? The personnel were the same as Monday. Football is a simple game. What different tactics do you need away from home? Don't you just keep possession, pass and move?

Torres's form is abysmal. I'd play him in the Thursday Europa game and if he doesn't score drop him for the Fulham game. He needs to learn he needs to pick up his game. The good chance he has at 1-1 should have been chipped over the keeper. He's way out of sorts. I blame the players today, not Roy despite the statistics.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 12, 2010, 12:08:16 AM
So what would our experts suggest for a plan B?

sack Roy and bring in a top manager.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on December 12, 2010, 08:05:52 AM
I think Newcy is a s*** team and Pardew is a pathetic looser. They have like 2 chances and score 3. It's been like that for much of the season and it's frustrating we can't capitalise on being the better team. But with a s*** defence like this what can you expect really? Skrtel's been so f***ing poor the last 4-5 games it's f***ing hard to believe. Lucas is so worthless I just hope he breaks a leg so that I don't have to watch him play. He's just so worthless. Torres can start scoring sitters before sulking like a spoilt child.

All in all a good perfomance in periods. Newcy were extremly fortunate to win this one. I can see them go down again.

Ngog LFCMOTM (never thought I'd say it)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on December 12, 2010, 10:21:22 AM
I think Newcy is a s*** team and Pardew is a pathetic looser. They have like 2 chances and score 3. It's been like that for much of the season and it's frustrating we can't capitalise on being the better team. But with a s*** defence like this what can you expect really? Skrtel's been so f***ing poor the last 4-5 games it's f***ing hard to believe. Lucas is so worthless I just hope he breaks a leg so that I don't have to watch him play. He's just so worthless. Torres can start scoring sitters before sulking like a spoilt child.

All in all a good perfomance in periods. Newcy were extremly fortunate to win this one. I can see them go down again.

Ngog LFCMOTM (never thought I'd say it)

Lucas has been quality this season as a central midfielder. True as a DM he is crap, but in that CM role I believe he has been really effective for us and has struck a really good partnership with Meireles. I would hate for Gerrard to break that up.

The defense does need work  we definitely do need another centre back and another left back.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 12, 2010, 10:24:49 AM
The defense does need work  we definitely do need another centre back and another left back.
I'd put Kelly in at CB partnering Soto. Give Skrtel a rest and hint to him his place is not guaranteed. Sometimes players need a reminder there are alternatives. Same goes for Torres.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 12, 2010, 01:31:21 PM
Lucas has been quality this season as a central midfielder. True as a DM he is crap, but in that CM role I believe he has been really effective for us and has struck a really good partnership with Meireles. I would hate for Gerrard to break that up.

hi edward!  Good to see that I am not alone.   :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 12, 2010, 02:22:27 PM
Lucas or Gerrard? ;D ;D Not even in the same league. Maybe fans are now moving around to Woys Fulhams mentality, Ship out class and ship in rubbish
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 12, 2010, 03:27:22 PM
 :D

in Moreless, it's good to see that we finally have a decent corner taker.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on December 12, 2010, 03:30:15 PM
Lucas or Gerrard? ;D ;D Not even in the same league. Maybe fans are now moving around to Woys Fulhams mentality, Ship out class and ship in rubbish

Gerrard is an average central midfielder. He has no tactical discipline. Play him at the RM or AM position and he is world class.

Lucas offers more to us in the central midfield role than Gerrard that is for sure.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 12, 2010, 03:49:58 PM
I've heard it all now. Lucas who is normally a 5/6 out of ten man and occaisionally a 7 (once or twice a season) and versus a club legend. Why dont we just bring back the mighty Igor.  No wonder we're so shed if fans crave mediocre players
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on December 12, 2010, 04:04:56 PM
Lucas is normally a 7/10 man occasionally 8. Gerrard in central midfield is often 5/6 out of 10. As an AM he is often 8 or 9.

So what if Gerrard is a club legend. We are talking about performances in a specific role in our team this season and the partnership of Lucas and Meireles is better than anything Gerrard can provide from that position.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 12, 2010, 04:18:15 PM
over the years, whether with england or liverpool, I have often wondered (out loud) if captain marvel was playing.

I honestly didn't know if he was on the pitch (he was THAT anonymous).

as you say edward, play him on the right (and benefit the team).  It would also help negate his tactical indiscipline. 

PS - He also is sh.ite at corners and freekicks.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 12, 2010, 04:19:46 PM
Meirles is starting to look a great buy and Woy got something right there which is a first. But we're obviously watching a different team and a different player if you think Lucas is a 7 or 8. He's a rotation player at best. If we've got any ambitions of champions league football Lucas isnt the answer.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 12, 2010, 04:21:35 PM
Lucas or Alonso? Lucas or Mascherano? Even Lucas or Igor Biscan? Couldnt answer the last one its too close to call.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Redman on December 12, 2010, 06:26:12 PM
Good result indeed tho it has to be said te quality of the game was quite poor to be honest. We continue to be disorganised defensively, something a better team than Villa would've punished us for.

Skrtel was shockingly poor, or maybe just playing to his true leve. He continued to make unforced errors throughout the game.

Also though Kuijt had a poor game where his first touch let him down continously.

Lucas, on the other hand, actually had one of his better games in a red shirt. A reason for this may have been the awayteam's non-existant center midfield.

Ngog took his goal well and set Maxi up nicely for our 3rd. Other than that he' very often a very slow and inconsisten performer.

Babel probably need  few starts before he can be fairly judged. Took his goal very nicely tho. His decisionmaking isn't his strongest aspect of his game tho.

All in all this win could set us up nicely for a very good run that could see our season get back on track. Take a look at the upcoming 9 games.

Newcy (a)
Fulham (h)
Blackpool (a)
Wolves (h)
Bolton (h)
Blackburn (a)
Everton (h)
Wolves (a)
Stoke (h)

That's 27 points at stake. I'm gonna stick my neck out and claim at least 23 of them are possible if not likely.

With Roys appalling away record of 16 wins in 35 years of football management I wouldn't stick my neck out so far, I reckon going on current form we'll lose just about every away match, possibly draw 1 or 2 but I wouldn't bet on it, so I'm going to say that IF we can win all the home matches I reckon we're good for between 15 and 18 points MAX.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 12, 2010, 06:43:44 PM
With Roys appalling away record of 16 wins in 35 years of football management I wouldn't stick my neck out so far, I reckon going on current form we'll lose just about every away match, possibly draw 1 or 2 but I wouldn't bet on it, so I'm going to say that IF we can win all the home matches I reckon we're good for between 15 and 18 points MAX.

Completely agree. Whether its woys fault or the squad i'm not sure. But we're definately missing Mascherano more than i would like to admit especially in away games. we're far to open when teams attack us on the counter. Moses and the RED sea springs to mind
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 12, 2010, 06:44:02 PM
Lets take stock and see how things are looking. Yup as expected no champions league football for us next year. Since we went on that mini revival the gap between us and the other teams fighting for fourth seems to have extended. Were we not only 5 points off 4th with 10 games played? I think we have found our level, 9th could be as good as it gets.

                    Played   Points
1 Arsenal       16         32
2 Man City     17         32
3 Man Utd      15         31
4 Chelsea      17         31
5 Spurs          17         27
6 Bolton         17         26
7 Sunderland 17         24
8 Newcastle   17         22
9 Liverpool     17         22
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 12, 2010, 07:04:37 PM
taxi for roy
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 13, 2010, 11:30:29 PM
This year is the closest the premier league has ever been but would anyone else agree that the standard of the top teams has deteriorated dramatically.

Teams like Bolton have improved dramatically and anybody can beat anybody but I think its just a case of yes some of the so called smaller teams have got better but nearly all of the so called top teams have got worse. Chelsea looked invincible 7 or 8 games ago but at the moment any team in the league would be confident of taking their scalp. United won again tonight and are unbeaten but they look a pale shadow of any of the top United teams of the past. Our demise has been dramatic but I also feel that the standard of football being played is terrible. Arsenal at times are great to watch but they dont seem to be able to reproduce those Barcelonaesque performances when it matters most. 

My worry is that even though the premier league is so frequently referred to as the best league in the world the fact of the matter is that its not and summer by summer we are seeing the worlds top players leaving for Spain. Tevez is next, I think Torres will go too.

I would like to see more Premier League teams start to play football like it should be played but for us that will never happen under Roy. I would be worried that the PL is in decline and if we arent careful leagues such as Italy and Germany may just take the PL's place.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 14, 2010, 10:38:22 AM
My worry is that even though the premier league is so frequently referred to as the best league in the world the fact of the matter is that its not and summer by summer we are seeing the worlds top players leaving for Spain. Tevez is next, I think Torres will go too.

It's hyped up by Sky and the Murdoch media in order to attract the sale of Sky dishes. It's never been the best league in the World. Tactically the Italian league has always been stronger and technically the Spanish League is a massive improvement. There are too many teams in this country that play negative football and technical ability is always secondary to strength, passion, commitment, all round physical prowess etc when it comes to coaching at all levels. Too much machismo driven tabloid style football, where sophistication and technique are dirty words. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 14, 2010, 11:46:30 AM
I disagree. I think the Premier League was the best in the world 3/4 years ago. The Italian league is boring and hasnt been a top league for a long time. The Spanish league is always strong and for a couple of seasons has been the best. I  see this being the case for the next 5 years or at least until we change our 50% tax laws.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 14, 2010, 12:17:07 PM
england and spain are the two finest leagues (germany and france come next, in the distance).  ANd Italy, like kopite says, is boring. 

Juan, despite much abuse from others, I have always maintained that modern teams could not hold a candle to teams of the 70s or 80s.  Fitness technology aside, is the only thing modern teams are more advanced on. 

this season, I think there is more competition due to possibly a slowdown in major spending by the bigger teams, and better squads among the lesser teams.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 14, 2010, 12:39:58 PM
Did any body see the LFC TV show with John Henry and the new chairman last night? if you didnt try and find the footage somewhere. Its definately worth a watch. They talk about Roy and transfers aswell as stadium issues. There was a couple of irrate pool fans calling for the head of Woy.

They also had a poll going, Liverpool team of the 80's vs Barca 2010 team? Didnt see what the result was though
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 14, 2010, 01:27:18 PM
Found it.


http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/john-tom-and-ian-6-free-videos
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on December 14, 2010, 02:02:58 PM
They also had a poll going, Liverpool team of the 80's vs Barca 2010 team? Didnt see what the result was though

The Liverpool of the 80's would murder the Barca team of today...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on December 14, 2010, 03:29:42 PM
Top link, kopite....

thought ian ayre, tom and john henry came over well...
john henry looks slightly odd...but thats due to the glasses...his eyes would be considerably bigger without...

john henry and tom will listen...and if roy doesn't improve he's gone as is comolli...i think they're bizness men...if people don't produce...then they're gone...

they ain't spending silly money in january...they're building for the financial fair play rules...which is a good thing...the man citeh design is dead in the water soon anyways...

p.s. what's all this mantra business??? i know the old magick crowley stuff which works...but unless they have a few shaman chucking magickal words around on the pitch it's a very odd usage...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 14, 2010, 04:00:57 PM
The Liverpool of the 80's would murder the Barca team of today...

If it was played now we'd have 2/3 sent off by half time!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 14, 2010, 09:04:40 PM
If it was played now we'd have 2/3 sent off by half time!!!

 :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on December 14, 2010, 11:40:24 PM
Found it.


http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/john-tom-and-ian-6-free-videos

GREAT link, kopite.  Many thanks!

Watching it here as I type.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 15, 2010, 02:42:05 PM
Agreed cheers for the link Kopite, its great to see the owners answer questions like that.

I have to say so far I am impressed. I know people are wary and worried by the fact that Hodgson is still here but listening to Henry especially in that piece reaffirms to me they know exactly what they are doing.

I wouldnt let their outward support for Roy fool you. These guys are statisticians, they know that Roys away record to date at any club has been poor, they know hes won very little in a long career and they certainly know how the majority of Liverpool fans feel about him. And if they didnt they certainly know after that. I had to laugh at the guy ringing in from Bristol. He obviously told the researcher he spoke to first that he had a different question to ask but once getting through to the studio he apologises to "the lady on the phone" and then goes on to slate Roy.

As expected for me that program confirms Roy is a sitting duck, he wont be Liverpool manager this time next year. For me Henry and Werner do have a plan regarding a new manager and they are going through the motion with Roy until that plan comes to fruition. I think its a matter of sitting back and watching Roy manage himself out of a job. One or two more away defeats might just do it but i suspect it will most likely be end of season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 16, 2010, 11:56:49 PM
They probably have a very decent idea of who they want and who they can get. Keeping Roy in situ might lose us a couple of players (on this season's form the idea of life without Torres is more frightening than the current reality) but will allow a transition from him to the new manager and we'll all be relieved and grateful when it happens. Alternatively, bring in a temporary appointment, who does well and gets us into the top four on the last game of the season and how do they then remove him for the new man? A temporary appointment may bring an instant uplift in fortunes but may not be the long term solution. However, the short term 'success' would make his removal less popular and provide for a less easy ride for the new man early on. 

We've probably got to take short term pain to achieve longer term gain.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 17, 2010, 12:39:04 AM
We've probably got to take short term pain to achieve longer term gain.

Dare I say it but I think I trust Henry and co so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt about their future plans.

As you say it will probably mean Roy sticking around for a bit.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 17, 2010, 01:19:22 AM
As you say it will probably mean Roy sticking around for a bit.

In the mean time it would be nice, for example last night with everything to gain and nothing to lose, to see more positive football and given the likes of Pacheco the full 90.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on December 29, 2010, 10:06:56 PM
I don't know where to begin. Some stats, perhaps? Wolves was the worst awayside in the entire FA-system. That's right the worst of 108 or so teams. Liverpool haven't lost to Wolves at home since January 1984. That's 27 years give or take a month.

Of course this must spell the end for Roy. I'll have it said once and for all - I don't see a way forward with the current manager. Having said that tho, I think the players should have their fair share of the stick.

Torres - you're not a Liverpool player anymore. I don't think you deserve for a second to wear that red shirt. Your attitude and body language is a disgrace. If you don't want to be here, just p**s off please.

Lucas - what can you say that haven't been said already.

Konchesky - it's not your fault Roy had the poor judgement to sign you but you just aren't up to this level.

Johnson - a poor man's Ashley Cole if you like. Overpaid, overrated, overwhathaveyou.

Skrtl - another s***ty signing no thanks to Rafa.

This was the most disjointed, unimaginative, confused, unspirited, what have you Liverpool side I've seen during my + 30 years of supporting this club. No pride, no passion, no nothing that once made this club the greatest in the world. You can hate Roy all you like but the players really really really need to take a hard look at themselves as well. I think this humiliating and disastrous defeat signals the end of the 20 or so years long journey back to mediocrity. We're the losing side. ManU, a*senal and Chelsea managed to move on, we didn't. We've swapped place with City and Tottenham and it'll be years on end before we can even dream of making an Everton 2005.

I was never into the money argument of how to make a club successful but after Rafa there are so many weak spots in our side it'd take the combined money of Chelsea, Tottenham and City to even make us ready for 4th.

We need:

Two top CB's

One LB

One CM

One RW

One LW

Two strikers

That's to form a starting eleven good enough to challenge for 4th. Add to this you need back up for most of those positions and you might realise it's not about Roy being here or not. It's about this club's been mismanaged for over a decade.

In the current team I can only see a future for Reina, Gerrard, Kuijt and possibly Johnson despite what I said above. Mark my words we're the new City, Tottenham of old so to speak. In any case it's heartbreaking to have to watch us get hammered like this.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 29, 2010, 10:11:13 PM
And the most worrying thing is the next appointment, the biggest since 1959, is down to a bunch of football virgins.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on December 29, 2010, 10:29:23 PM
I don't know tes. I think we need to start over meaning we'll have to work out a plan on where we want to be in 5 years time and work towards that goal. I fear the worst thing we could do now is to linger in the belief we just need to fix this or that crack and it'll be a shiny house again. We need to bring the whole thing down and rebuild not only a team but an identity. In that sense I both agree and disagree with you on the importance of the next appointment. Again, most important of all is that we all realise how far we've sunken during the last decade. GH and Rafa turn out to be costsome mistakes, add to that the ownership trouble and we seem to have lost forever the advantage we built during the 60's, 70's and 80's. None of this is Roy's fault, he's just not the right man to bring stability to the club. I previously thought he was the right man to that end but now admit I was wrong.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: DeepestL0NGROD on December 29, 2010, 10:55:17 PM
This is heart-wrenching to see. I wont be surprised to see Anfield half empty soon.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: BatChainPuller on December 29, 2010, 11:04:21 PM
I don't know tes. I think we need to start over meaning we'll have to work out a plan on where we want to be in 5 years time and work towards that goal. I fear the worst thing we could do now is to linger in the belief we just need to fix this or that crack and it'll be a shiny house again. We need to bring the whole thing down and rebuild not only a team but an identity. In that sense I both agree and disagree with you on the importance of the next appointment. Again, most important of all is that we all realise how far we've sunken during the last decade. GH and Rafa turn out to be costsome mistakes, add to that the ownership trouble and we seem to have lost forever the advantage we built during the 60's, 70's and 80's. None of this is Roy's fault, he's just not the right man to bring stability to the club. I previously thought he was the right man to that end but now admit I was wrong.

I think that's taking being charitable to the extreme. He has to take some responsibility for the consistent underperformance of practically the whole squad. No sign of his famous 'arm round the shoulder'.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on December 30, 2010, 07:30:45 AM
I wasn't shocked by this result because i expected it tbh under Roy.

We can blame past regimes and our downfall due to Souness, but we never had a divine right to win...

We can blame the players for not stepping up and not being fit to wear the shirt.

But when all is said and done...

These players should be challenging for 6th, and have not become bad players over night. Torres has played every game so far, Rafa got us to 7th when he was missing half the season...

The reason we are currently 3 points from relegation is down to one thing...Roy Hodgson.
The players have no faith in Roy, because after experiencing his 'style' for half a season, know that he hasn't got a clue.
He blames everyone but himself (no John Henry mind), 'it's this player is useless or that one too well paid'...his continous derisory news statements and laughable decision making actually half make me think that he's a manure supporter in disguise sent out on a sabotage mission.

Unfit to manage and way over his head, he has to be sacked off today.



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on December 30, 2010, 10:42:40 AM
I think that's taking being charitable to the extreme. He has to take some responsibility for the consistent underperformance of practically the whole squad. No sign of his famous 'arm round the shoulder'.

Of course he has to take responsibility and before long I think he will. However, I think many of the problems we've seen this season were there before Roy arrived. He's failed to fix them so far true, but coming on here and elsewhere you'd be excused for thinking he was responsible for every existing problem at Anfield. Rather than moaning about Roy I'd like to take the opportunity to speak out about a player I find it harder by each game to see in a red shirt. To be frank and honest about it, I think Torres is an outright and spoilt child who can go do whatever for all I care. Fair enough he had a brilliant first 18 months for us. The last 2 seasons tho, he's been out injured half the time, the rest of the time you could watch him dive, sulk, do whatever but earning the right to hold this club to ransom, let alone wearing a red shirt. Fernando, if you want the money or titles so badly, just leave. Stop being such a drama queen and start deserving the millions you're currently robbing this club of.

We need players with heart, with pride and self-respect.

Barticus, your analysis is dangerous to this club. If you're so deluded you think our problems start and stop with Roy you're seriously mistaken.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 30, 2010, 10:48:15 AM
MartinMarx,

Shame on you for using such an appalling word in a public forum. I suggest you edit it out. We're all annoyed about the situation but language like that just isn't acceptable.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on December 30, 2010, 10:50:59 AM
Am sorry ASI, hope that's better. Didn't mean to offend anyone.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 30, 2010, 10:56:10 AM
Am sorry ASI, hope that's better. Didn't mean to offend anyone.
Thanks. I know you didn't but people of all ages read these pages and we need to keep it civil.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on December 30, 2010, 11:28:12 AM
Barticus, your analysis is dangerous to this club. If you're so deluded you think our problems start and stop with Roy you're seriously mistaken.

Not every single ill at the club is down to Roy, but we can't change the past, only the present and future.

We need need strong leadership and a clear direction in footballing terms, from top to bottom. An ethos that everyone buys into, understands and follows to the letter. This, however, will take time, but the first stage is to get some leadership of the first team. Someone the players can and should believe in. Then we can judge who is still going through the motions and simply furnishing their bank account at the fans' and club's expense.

The players need to stand up and take their share of the blame but it's got to be near impossible to be inspired or even want any association with Hodgson and his methods. If we as fans are straining at the leash to have him physically ejected from the club, what must the players be going through, having to work to his 'methods', go through the purgatory that must be every moment they have to spend in his presence?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on December 30, 2010, 01:36:33 PM

Barticus, your analysis is dangerous to this club. If you're so deluded you think our problems start and stop with Roy you're seriously mistaken.

Greetings Martinmarx, deluded calling....

Obviously i don't blame Roy for all the problems at the club, which i pointed out earlier in the message i think? But most of them ...yup, that's me...3 months ago on the roy hodgson thread i said Roy had till xmas to prove himself...he's done that all right...get rid...

The following are other helpful reasons to why i have given him till xmas and seen that this can't continue...

1. He's a manager who has won nowt in his long history of football management..

2. When one of the most loyal players of LFC aka Reina has his doubts, this after backing the club to the hilt and signing a new 5/6 year contract...

3. When the rest of the players (mostly internationals) look at you and think 'dead god, i know rafa had his foibles but at least he changed things on the pitch (best substitute use for example) and didn't start rubbing his head and start praying to whichever god for divine intervention'

4. When those players aren't playing with any passion cos they're certainly not getting it from management...(the reason see next point)...

5. To be utterly defeatist...

6. When you mirror one of rafa's main faults, and have your favourites (who aren't even as good as Kuyt and lucas)...

7. When you turn on every player, babel, pacheco, torres, maxi, cole (who he'd never have signed of course - being played in the right position might help) and have no real loyalty to anyone other than Woy oh and Fergie and his red wine...

8. Fergie and his cosy red wine chat...

9. By not putting players in their correct position to the benefit of the team but to the benefit of the 100+ a week ego's...Gerrard and Cole want to play in a central position in midfield - lol! can u imagine???...maybe we should put Gerrard in control and we can all follow Newcastle's lead...

10. Managing the team, you know Roy, playing to your strengths and not what the tabloids and broadsheets tell you how you should be playing...

11. Oh and to cap it all, you turn on the fans who have every entitlement to boo the team and Roy after letting WOLVES and before that NEWCASTLE, STOKE, EVERTON, BLACKPOOL and 80% of the top 5 beat us....(though booing Roy bought players is out of order - though i think more of a message to Roy than anything else)

p.s. oh and as for the 'don't change the manager midterm cos that's not our way'...if Spurs didn't 2 years ago and left juan de ramos with his 1 point after 10 games, then...well now look at them...

If though martinmarx you're happy with mediocrity...well let's all jump on 'follow Roy into oblivion' and we'll all enjoy playing Brighton next season...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on December 30, 2010, 03:04:30 PM
In relation to last nights performance we made life difficult for ourselves before the game ever kicked off. That line up was inventive for all the wrong reasons. Kuyt on the left, Meireles on the right were shocking decisions to make.

After that the players were inept, the tactical know how of the manager was non existent and basically we look like a team without unity, drive or interest to play for the manager.

If there wasnt a penny to be spent in January I think it would be still possible to breath life in to this Liverpool team. I'd start by recalling Insua back from Gala. Play him in a back four of Kelly, Kyriakos, Agger, Insua. Four across mid field with Maxi on the left Johnson on the right Lucas and Meireles in the middle and Gerrard Torres up front. Cant do any worse than what we witnessed last night.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: thisisanfield on December 30, 2010, 05:51:22 PM
Even those of us who were willing to give Roy time have had enough. There were many problems I was hoping "Roys arm round the shoulder approach" would bring on the likes of Ryan Babbel, players with talent that may have been missed by Rafa's attuitude towards them. But that has not happened at all, I am wondering how we were led to believe Roy was that kind of manager in the first place.
The club is now at a very important place for its future and we need to get a top manager .. as Tes rightly put it..

We need need strong leadership and a clear direction in footballing terms, from top to bottom. An ethos that everyone buys into, understands and follows to the letter. This, however, will take time, but the first stage is to get some leadership of the first team. Someone the players can and should believe in. Then we can judge who is still going through the motions and simply furnishing their bank account at the fans' and club's expense
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on December 31, 2010, 12:09:52 PM
If I was torres I'd be sulking to. Every ball that goes anywhere near him is closer to his head than his feet. We're a long ball team and that's down to one man. I agree Torres could show a lot more heart but tbh these poor tactics have gone on game after game after game. It's quite obvious woy has no support from most fans and now the players. It seems like a very easy decision needs to be made very soon b4 fans start to desert the club. Kenny to steady the ship until a new man can be appointed in the summer
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 01, 2011, 03:54:57 PM
Jan 1st, 2011

Liverpool 0 Bolton 1, half-time

looks like bolton are applying the coup de tat, to Roy's time at anfield.

I think the owners will not be able to employ him any longer.



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 01, 2011, 04:56:58 PM
final score 2-1

unimpressive stuff.

end to end chances at the end......we got lucky.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on January 01, 2011, 05:24:09 PM
The owners need to do to Roy what they'd do to their sick pet - put him out of our misery.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 01, 2011, 07:57:44 PM
final score 2-1

unimpressive stuff.

end to end chances at the end......we got lucky.

We have been transformed into a mid table team. As fans we arent sure whether we will win draw or lose.  Today we looked no different. Roy confuses a bit of effort with a quality performance.

Today he hailed the performance as being top quality. It was far from it. The players were pumped up, ran around more but the quality Roy describes was no where to be seen. Nobody could tell which way the game was going to go.

I cant wait for FSG to find Roys replacement because until they do the rollercoaster will continue.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 01, 2011, 08:03:22 PM
I've been thinking about the manager situation today. Whilst I would like Roy to disappear asap the long-term interests of the club have to be considered. If we assume for argument's sake we won't make the CL next season but could make the EL instead then it might be best to stick with him. That way, come the summer we can go for a greater number of candidates than are currently available. I believe only Frank Rijart (sp) is currently available and he may not be the best choice.

Come the summer we can take our pick from 3-4 managers and with no WC or EC tournaments there will be plenty of time to negotiate. The chap from Porto might convince and inspire our top players to stick around.

I know I'm back-tracking on my earlier decision but getting the right man in is essential and asking anyone including Kenny or Rafa to look after things until the end of season is undesirable for many reasons.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on January 01, 2011, 08:47:02 PM
I know I'm back-tracking on my earlier decision but getting the right man in is essential and asking anyone including Kenny or Rafa to look after things until the end of season is undesirable for many reasons.

ASI, that's exactly how I feel. Get rid now is the obvious answer, but then brings a further problem of what to do next as the long term answer I doubt is available at this stage of the season.
Keeping Roy brings with it the danger of no European football at all.

What initially seems like the right move could turn into a regrettable one pretty quickly.   
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 01, 2011, 11:04:44 PM
ASI, that's exactly how I feel. Get rid now is the obvious answer, but then brings a further problem of what to do next as the long term answer I doubt is available at this stage of the season.
Keeping Roy brings with it the danger of no European football at all.

What initially seems like the right move could turn into a regrettable one pretty quickly.   

Tes, come May we'll look at how things panned out and if we secure European football and then get our top choice manager we will probably agree the owners did the right thing. But if we were not to secure European footie or horror of horrors, get relegated we'll curse them for not being decisive back in January.

Who would want to be an owener eh?  :o
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2011, 12:09:41 AM
Who would want to be an owener eh?  :o

The appointment of Roy in the Summer has made their initial months of ownership tougher than it might have been. As fans it's even tougher. We can't just sell up (even at a loss) and move on. Who'd be a fan?  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 02, 2011, 09:44:24 AM
The appointment of Roy in the Summer has made their initial months of ownership tougher than it might have been. As fans it's even tougher. We can't just sell up (even at a loss) and move on. Who'd be a fan?  :D
Once a fan of a club, always a fan of that club. Unlike owners we don't walk away. It's a lifetime marriage. Divorce isn't an option. No control over events. Just shell out your money and hope for a good result.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 05, 2011, 08:39:48 PM
Blackburn 2 Liverpool 0 after 40mins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 05, 2011, 08:53:40 PM
Im listening to it on radio merseyside. They're saying Blackburn are bad and we're awful!!
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 05, 2011, 08:55:30 PM
Enough is enough!!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 05, 2011, 09:22:53 PM
3-0 now after 65 mins.

roy's reign is over.

on another front; wolves are beating chelsea 1-0............ancellotti may be looking for a new club soon too.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 05, 2011, 09:50:03 PM
3-1 final score with Gerrard missing a penalty in the last 10 mins. I don't honestly see how Hodgson can survive this.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: anfieldr0ad on January 05, 2011, 10:05:28 PM
Roy says he wont walk out on us..Thats because if he gets the sack he'll get £3Million compensation! He probs wants the sack, that explains his strange choice for the starting 11 every game!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 05, 2011, 10:07:05 PM
3-1 final score with Gerrard missing a penalty in the last 10 mins. I don't honestly see how Hodgson can survive this.

Oh gosh.  That's got to be the final nail in his coffin now, surely?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 05, 2011, 10:11:13 PM
It's not all Roy's fault tho. I honestly thought he was the right man to bring stability to the club. Obviously he wasn't. Still he really inhereted a p**s poor squad from Rafa.

Tonite it's evident we need a brand new defense. If our current back four were to replace the back four of, lets say, Wolves, Villa or West Ham then those team would be absolutley doomed for relegation. That's what Rafa left us with. Lucas offer NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING after having been played in 90 per cent of the games for two seasons. Incredible. Ngog, he MAY come good in 4-5 years. Cole, well, lets just say it's depressing to see him play.

We need to start over big time. We need to do it from the bottom meaning the next two seasons we should focus on nothing else but getting a strong defense in play. Then, and only then, should we start develop our offensive game. That's the chance we have to ever make it into the top 4.

Roy is to blame for much, but it isn't his fault GH and Rafa was allowed to slowly sink this club into mid table mediocrity. I could see it coming as early as 2003. 2008 after sacking Packo we were destined for decline of biblical proportions. Don't hang Roy, he's just the messenger.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 05, 2011, 10:13:06 PM
Roy says he wont walk out on us..Thats because if he gets the sack he'll get £3Million compensation! He probs wants the sack, that explains his strange choice for the starting 11 every game!

That's quite a stupid thing to say. Apart from Agger I don't think he could've played a better 11 given Kuijt was exhausted. At least he doesn't indulge in the stupid and ignorant tinkering Rafa did for 6 years.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 05, 2011, 10:15:59 PM
It's not all Roy's fault tho. I honestly thought he was the right man to bring stability to the club. Obviously he wasn't. Still he really inhereted a p**s poor squad from Rafa.

Utter shine-a-light!  Do you not remember the squad Rafa inherited from Houllier? 

Roy never had the track record to lead Liverpool!

And for godsake get over with the constant Rafa finger pointing it's becoming a real bore listening to your constant jibes about him.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 05, 2011, 10:17:54 PM
Roy says he wont walk out on us..Thats because if he gets the sack he'll get £3Million compensation! He probs wants the sack, that explains his strange choice for the starting 11 every game!

Spot on.  He wouldn't leave Blackburn gracefully, and when he did via the sack, it was too late.

He truly is a dead man walking!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 05, 2011, 10:26:54 PM
I can't imagine that Roy will be employed by the weekend.

What you see in Roy's Liverpool, is total disarray.....no cohesion or sense of purpose.  A scatter gun approach to attackingand defending.  Far too much hoofing.  Individual players are not rocket scientists, they need decent straighforward advice.  Under rafa they got that.  Under Roy, you felt they were left to their own devices.

Great shame to have kicked Rafa out.    Top top manager (despite a few flaws).   He made it look easy, when it wasn't. 



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 05, 2011, 10:37:35 PM
Roy Hodgson spoke of his disappointment and frustration after Liverpool slumped to a 3-1 defeat at Blackburn Rovers on Wednesday night.

Martin Olsson and a brace from Benjani put the home side into a three-goal lead inside an hour at Ewood Park.

Steven Gerrard reduced the arrears with 10 minutes remaining but the captain missed from the penalty spot before the end.

Asked to sum up his feelings after the game by reporters, Hodgson replied: "Dejection, bitter disappointment and frustration.

"I'm very disappointed for the fans who travelled so far and gave us such good support only to see the team concede the goals we conceded.

"I thought in the second half we did our best to retrieve a seemingly hopeless situation and get back on track and who knows, if Steven's penalty had gone in we might have even made the last five minutes even more exciting.

"Unfortunately, when you're Liverpool and you lose away to Blackburn there is nothing that can be said which will put a positive slant or make the situation look any brighter, so as far as I'm concerned it's a really, really bad day.

"There's not much more I can say other than to say to the fans that anything they're feeling tonight, I can assure them the feeling is equally as bad and equally as depressed in the dressing room because tonight it was a performance which was anything other than the performance we wanted to give."

He continued: "In football you do what you always do. You keep going as best you can, you make certain you try and get over the result, you make certain the next result is a better one and hopefully wipes away the memory, but that's all you can do.

"Football unfortunately throws up some good moments and bad moments, and when it throws up a bad moment there is no amount of talking that is going to change anything.

"It'll be the next performance which could change things."
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: anfieldr0ad on January 05, 2011, 10:38:38 PM
That's quite a stupid thing to say. Apart from Agger I don't think he could've played a better 11 given Kuijt was exhausted. At least he doesn't indulge in the stupid and ignorant tinkering Rafa did for 6 years.

Are you Roy in Disguise?

So Ngog is better than Babel and Jova or even Cole could play in that position, Konchesky better than Fabio? At least he doesnt indulge in the stupid and ignorant tinkering Rafa did? ermm I dont think Roy has chosen the same 11 twice this season, plays players out of position and at least under Rafa we wont or at least we gave it a go! Dont know what game you watched tonight(you probs just checked on skysports new what the score was) but i watched the game and it was fornicating disgracefull!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 05, 2011, 10:41:16 PM
"It'll be the next performance which could change things."

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at his last statement.

Someone please get the gaffer tape and shut his bleedin' mouth!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: anfieldr0ad on January 05, 2011, 10:46:50 PM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at his last statement.

Someone please get the gaffer tape and shut his bleedin' mouth!

I fear the Man Utd game, Fergie is gonna put his best 11 out while Roy will rest Gerrard Torres Kuyt and Reina
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 05, 2011, 10:54:34 PM
Our squad isn't as bad as some make out. Agger is a proven defender and should have played from the start. Soto was always there as backup - not as a first choice defender. The way Kelly has been ignored is criminal. So many of us have said play him at RB and move Johnson to RW but it just fals on deaf ears. Can Hodgson be so tactically inept he's never even considered it?

We had a decent pairing of Babel and Ngog against WHU and they should have been tried tonight giving Torres a rest for Sunday.

Whilst the goals were down to individual errors the whole make up and tactics of the side is poor. How in God's name can Blackburn's temporary coach (not manager) work out a system to beat us as we don't have a manager with the nouse to work out how to beat them.

I honestly don't think Hodgson plans for any teams he plays against. He has the same philosophy irrespective of who we play. That's why he's absolutely hopeless and should get the sack in the afternoon. It would be the morning but for the time difference with Boston.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: DeepestL0NGROD on January 05, 2011, 11:43:46 PM
I have given up watching games. I had to get up at 4 am this morning to watch another shed performance.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 05, 2011, 11:51:45 PM
We have officially reached mid table mediocrity . Time for the owners to act
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 06, 2011, 12:13:59 PM
Our squad isn't as bad as some make out.

Whilst the goals were down to individual errors the whole make up and tactics of the side is poor. How in God's name can Blackburn's temporary coach (not manager) work out a system to beat us as we don't have a manager with the nouse to work out how to beat them.

I honestly don't think Hodgson plans for any teams he plays against. He has the same philosophy irrespective of who we play.

exactly, asi.

all this talk from some quarters (and I heard hansen at it last night too - puppet that he is) about liverpool's squad needing massive change, is rubbish.

we have lots of great players.  yes, we do need two good fullbacks. 

the problem as you say, is the manager.  And roy has been blaming everyone but himself for these calamitous performances.

roy deserves an oscar, for his interviews on the road.  He does this surprised act, after games, re how bad we were.  How can Roy be surprised by this point.  He is 63 years old, and has had an entire career of being rubbish away from home.  Why the surprise roy, that this woeful record continued when you came to liverpool.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on January 06, 2011, 01:08:19 PM
exactly, asi.

all this talk from some quarters (and I heard hansen at it last night too - puppet that he is) about liverpool's squad needing massive change, is rubbish.

we have lots of great players.  yes, we do need two good fullbacks. 

the problem as you say, is the manager.  And roy has been blaming everyone but himself for these calamitous performances.

roy deserves an oscar, for his interviews on the road.  He does this surprised act, after games, re how bad we were.  How can Roy be surprised by this point.  He is 63 years old, and has had an entire career of being rubbish away from home.  Why the surprise roy, that this woeful record continued when you came to liverpool.

It just goes to show how the media and their minions are living in another world to the fans and anyone vaguely intelligent...we gave Roy his chance, he didn't produce...he's awful let's be honest...
But when you see Hansen, Barnes, Keegan and Mcmanaman (http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6638144,00.html) those incredible players but no mark would be managers, spouting on about what they would do...all Souness's mark 2...never doing it and never proving it...

Our squad is good enough and a good manager would get the best out of them...

You only have to look at another squad, at the Istanbul final and the teams of both Liverpool and AC Milan, remember when the media had written us off beforehand? they were drooling over the Milan side, the LFC team no doubt deeply ridiculed by 90% of the press, became champions of Europe...

That comes down to the manager, there was some luck as there always should be in football...there was still some dodgy substitutions (only bringing hamann in the 2nd half - but would he have lasted the whole game and extra time...is that luck or judgement?)...
but there's also a belief that comes from someone who 3-0 down sends Traore and Biscan out...and wins...

i know i was critical of rafa...but in reflection i am saul on the road to damascus...

Rafa for at least 6 months...he's won it all and that's by judgement and not luck...

P.s. Maybe the surprise at an away defeat has been practiced so many times by Roy over the last 40 years, that even he has become convinced by the reaction? It certainly seems to have convinced certain football teams to hire him....
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on January 06, 2011, 01:17:54 PM
Oh and let's not forget that Blackburn had 8 first team players missing...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 06, 2011, 04:05:47 PM
Our squad is good enough and a good manager would get the best out of them...

i know i was critical of rafa...but in reflection i am saul on the road to damascus...

 :)

good to have a convert. 

yes, and like you say, blackburn had 8 of their first team unavailable last night.

a good man makes players, and teams, excel.  He gets the best out of them.  That was what rafa did.  Look for example at top class lads like Kuyt.  Under Roy, they look like a shadow of the players they were under Rafa. 

thanks for that link, BTW  Here are the quotes.

Keegan, Barnes and McManaman are adamant the 63-year-old still has time to turn it round, starting with Sunday's FA Cup third-round tie at Manchester United.

Keegan said: "In one word, yes, of course he can.The opportunity comes at Manchester United to get back on track. It's a tough one. Liverpool are a big club, big expectation, underperformed over a number of years - way before Roy Hodgson went in there. The decline at Liverpool has not just happened in the past three to six months. It's been going on for a period of time. They've got to give him time but it's the one thing you don't get, as we all know. The clock ticks on the wall and managers don't get time. They thought he was right four months ago and he did a great job at Fulham, so they've got to back him. They chose him - they've got to back him.  If you go back to when Sir Alex Ferguson took over at Man United, he had a tough start. He wasn't in too dissimilar a situation.""

Barnes added: "You know what football's like. It's results driven and pick up some results and the tide changes. As much as Liverpool aren't doing well now, if they put some results together, beat Manchester United in the FA Cup, hopefully, and then do well, things change.  But in football, generally speaking, if you lose, you're going to be under pressure, particularly at a big club. We know that things haven't gone particularly well and there may be people who are against Roy. All of the Liverpool fans that may be against Roy now, I'm sure that if they start winning matches, they will support him - because they love their club. That's what football fans want. They want success for their club."

McManaman said: "The Chelsea manager, who did the double last year, he's under pressure. They're talking about him getting the sack this morning. Beat Man United, win the next league game, beat Everton, and everything's rosy again. Lose, lose, and lose and he'll struggle again. I believe that all managers should be give support and I think that the biggest testament to that is Manchester United. They haven't been playing well but they have a manager who everybody respects, everybody supports.""

The trio all agreed Hodgson should be backed by his bosses.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 06, 2011, 04:14:22 PM
see, this is the problem of modern football punditry/journalism.  It is biased, due to there being no independent journalistic analysis.

those within the industry, tend to look after one of their own. 

and I am sure Barnes is a big fan of being given loads of time to turn things around - given  the short shrift clubs have given him, once they realised how inept he was.

the whole thing at anfield goes back to the sacking of rafa and appointment of roy.  It was an awful piece of business.  The recruitment/selection procedure was a mess.  Didn't anyone care to look at Roy's CV, and not only the lack of success on it, but also the dire away from home stats.

I know you'd like Rafa back as caretaker, barticus.  I think tho that our owners don't want him or kenny in the position.  And if they do not want either there permanently, I can understand why.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 06, 2011, 04:25:28 PM
I know you'd like Rafa back as caretaker, barticus.  I think tho that our owners don't want him or kenny in the position.  And if they do not want either there permanently, I can understand why.

Well whatever they decide, they need to get their ass into gear!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 06, 2011, 04:55:25 PM
Well whatever they decide, they need to get their ass into gear!

they need to make the right decision.

something which may well be beyond them (seeing as they are working without the necessary expertise within the board).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 09, 2011, 03:37:42 PM
Average performance apart from minutes 10 through 20. Torres is a disgrace and should be sold promptly. He contributes nothing and sulk like the spoilt child he is. If footy was about walking he'd be the best footballer in all times. I'd take whatever money I could get from him and spend it on two hungry and motivated players. His first two seasons with us wasn't his real level, this is and it is similar to what he displayed at AM.

Lucas agains offers nothing. He's been played regurarly for over two seasons but just can't step forward and help the team when Gerrard was sent off. Totally worthless player.

Webb tho handed ManU the game on a silverplate with his pathetic refereeing. How weak can a ref be allowed to be?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 09, 2011, 03:41:55 PM
You cannot find any positives from that game today? I seriously doubt you are a LFC fan. Kelly played really well as did most of the team once we were down to 10 men for an hour. I see a lot to cheer me after that performance and I think Johnson has a real battle to get his RB position back.

But you chose to ignore all that and just continue your negative rant.  ???
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 09, 2011, 03:49:00 PM
great to see agger in the team.

classy player.

i hope he stays injury free, and gets a long run in the team.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 09, 2011, 04:40:36 PM
i hope he stays injury free, and gets a long run in the team....

....and stay's on his feet  ;D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 09, 2011, 04:42:58 PM
....and stay's on his feet  ;D

LOL    true!

 :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on January 09, 2011, 09:12:23 PM
Lucas agains offers nothing. He's been played regurarly for over two seasons but just can't step forward and help the team when Gerrard was sent off. Totally worthless player.

I guess it depends on the instructions he's playing under from the manager. Players like Lucas are extremely professional and  disciplined. They will carry out the manager's instructions to the letter whether that makes them a stand out performer or one that blends into the background.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 09, 2011, 09:15:06 PM
I guess it depends on the instructions he's playing under from the manager. Players like Lucas are extremely professional and  disciplined. They will carry out the manager's instructions to the letter whether that makes them a stand out performer or one that blends into the background.

I think that's a fair point, at the same time you'd be forgiven for thinking modern footballers are robots in spe, totally unable to make independent decisions. Even in the role you describe him he's not good enough. Surely you'd agree he'll have to offer the club anything to merit wearing the red shirt on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on January 09, 2011, 09:24:04 PM
I think that's a fair point, at the same time you'd be forgiven for thinking modern footballers are robots in spe, totally unable to make independent decisions. Even in the role you describe him he's not good enough. Surely you'd agree he'll have to offer the club anything to merit wearing the red shirt on a regular basis.

Agree Martin. The ability of modern players to 'read the game' and therefore make the correct decision accordingly is depressingly limited. They either follow instructions or, like Babel, seem have eneither the ability to follow instructions or think for themselves.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 09, 2011, 10:12:50 PM
I'm sorry but Lucas is not a first team Liverpool player you can rely on week in week out. Yes he offers a good game now and then, but he should be someone who's rotated not starting every week. 

And Martin Kelly is a little gem. Future Liverpool captain in my opinion. Very rarely let's you down.

And on Torres where do u start. Someone who's got it in him somewhere but just not showing it enough. At times I thought I was watching a kid in the under 9's that was told he's playing in defence rather that a striker! I love the guy but just don't understand what's wrong with him

But overall It wasn't a bad performance. I Thought at least most of the players showed a lot of spirit. I'm just hoping kenny is allowed to do     some tinkering this month. Kennys  definately the man we need at moment and he's galvanised the fans already. The atmosphere was electric     maybe too much at one point when red seats came flying over my head!

Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 09, 2011, 11:38:10 PM
Forgot to say.for the Blackpool game midweek I'd stick jonjo in the middle to start. Risky but I think he'll rise to it
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 10, 2011, 12:04:09 AM
I guess it depends on the instructions he's playing under from the manager. Players like Lucas are extremely professional and  disciplined. They will carry out the manager's instructions to the letter whether that makes them a stand out performer or one that blends into the background.

Lucas for me makes too many sideward / backward passes.

I think under Kenny you will see the midfielders attempt to pass forward alot more and with a greater tempo.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 10, 2011, 12:09:49 AM
Forgot to say.for the Blackpool game midweek I'd stick jonjo in the middle to start. Risky but I think he'll rise to it

Bold call, I cant see him starting yet but hes definitely showing ability. And even though his attempt at lobbing Kuszack showed thats hes still got alot to learn at least he wasnt afraid to attempt such a bold effort in the likes of Old Trafford. Lessor players would just shy away.

I hope Kenny can bring the best out of Pacheco.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: DeepestL0NGROD on January 10, 2011, 12:51:57 AM


And Martin Kelly is a little gem. Future Liverpool captain in my opinion. Very rarely let's you down.

Yes its great to see a new product of the LFC academy coming through. I also agree with the captain thing but Reina will probably keep it when Gerrard and Carra retire.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: PhilLFC on January 10, 2011, 12:02:40 PM
anyone let me know what the debt on the club is ..many thanks
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 10, 2011, 12:07:38 PM
I think its about 60 million. The new owners took it on when they bought the club
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: PhilLFC on January 10, 2011, 12:54:07 PM
I think its about 60 million. The new owners took it on when they bought the club
ok thanks...thought it was 2.2 mil...
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 10, 2011, 01:13:59 PM
Debt servicing is about 2 - 3 million a year now compared to 25-30 million under the cowboys
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on January 10, 2011, 04:16:42 PM
Agree with most of what Kopite said regarding Kelly, O.T. in front of 76,000 fans, he has my respect....Johnson could learn a thing or two from him.

I thought that the lads put in a good shift but were ultimately hampered by being down to ten.

TBH I didn't have much of a problem with Lucas yesterday, thought he worked his socks off and covered a serious amount of ground (anyone got stats?). I know we'd all like to see him be a bit more creative but I was blown away by the unfussy way he goes about doing the dirty work for the side.

Shelvey, would like to see more of him....needs to do the basics first (win back and keep possession), heroics later!

Babel, no comment....

I think Kenny is a good short-term appointment and as long as we keep expectations in check, it may even be fun to be a fan for a while (how strange is that!!!).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: jcred85 on January 10, 2011, 08:22:18 PM
Judging by his performance at OT Kelly is pushing for a regular slot at right back. Johnson has bee far from his best and if he still wants out Kenny could sacrifice him to bring in some cash to spend elsewhere
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 10, 2011, 08:33:01 PM
Kellys got to start against Blackpool. If he's dropped after a performance like yesterday then I think it sends out the wrong signals.I reckon kenny might be the one that finally moves Glen to the right wing.not permanently just until the end of the season when we can strengthen.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 10, 2011, 09:23:21 PM
Kellys got to start against Blackpool. If he's dropped after a performance like yesterday then I think it sends out the wrong signals.I reckon kenny might be the one that finally moves Glen to the right wing.not permanently just until the end of the season when we can strengthen.

yes, he played really well, and has to stay in the team.

that was the way liverpool used to do things.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 10, 2011, 11:13:22 PM
Agreed Kellys got to keep the right back spot and also that Kenny should try Johnson out on the right wing. I know he cost us 18 million and cant defend to save his life but if pushing him into midfield worked out half as well as Gareth Bale at Spurs it could save us 15 million on a new right winger.

Might be time to play Kuyt up front with Nando. Meireles and Gerrard in midfield, johnson on the right.

Hopefully Kenny can work some magic on Cole too. Maybe Clarke can get the best out of himself and Johnson.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 10, 2011, 11:27:30 PM
Juan,

Do you not see a place for Lucas? He's a much improved player this season and that's from more than one source.

In any case, for the next 3 games Gerrard is not a consideration so Lucas is deserving a start providing he has the stamina.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: DeepestL0NGROD on January 11, 2011, 12:27:28 AM
Agreed Kellys got to keep the right back spot and also that Kenny should try Johnson out on the right wing. I know he cost us 18 million and cant defend to save his life but if pushing him into midfield worked out half as well as Gareth Bale at Spurs it could save us 15 million on a new right winger.

Might be time to play Kuyt up front with Nando. Meireles and Gerrard in midfield, johnson on the right.

Hopefully Kenny can work some magic on Cole too. Maybe Clarke can get the best out of himself and Johnson.

Not sure that Johnson would be that good as a right winger.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 11, 2011, 07:31:36 AM
Not sure that Johnson would be that good as a right winger.

I believe he'd make a far better right winger than a right back.  He has speed and is a decent crosser of the ball.

Wouldn't hurt to try with Kelly playing behind him, who also I might add likes to get up the field as well.  Could see some nice overlaps with those two on the right.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 11, 2011, 11:57:31 AM
Not sure that Johnson would be that good as a right winger.

Personally I think he has every attribute to be a good winger. Strong pacey,can cross and shoot. It'll help him with his weakness aswell which is defending. Kelly is a solid defender and should be first choice tomorrow and away games especially
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 11, 2011, 02:28:59 PM
Juan,

Do you not see a place for Lucas? He's a much improved player this season and that's from more than one source.

In any case, for the next 3 games Gerrard is not a consideration so Lucas is deserving a start providing he has the stamina.

ASI I agree Lucas has improved this year and gives all in every game. But thats not good enough for a club that has ambitions to challenge for the league.

He will get his game time this season but unless Kenny can get him playing like no other Liverpool manager previously has then I couldnt see him holding down a regular place if we were to sign another quality central midfielder or two.

Put it this way aside from hard work and determination what does Lucas offer the team that no other player offers us. What does he specialise in? Hes not a Masch type midfielder that breaks up play, hes not considered a passer. He doesnt get too many goals. We were led to believe he was a box to box midfielder when he was signed but Ive seen little evidence of that. Hes an honest player and definitely worth having in the squad but unless he improves dramactically I wouldnt consider he offers enough to keep a place in our midfield. This season he will be important for us but once we strengthen I think he will miss out more than not.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 11, 2011, 02:33:10 PM
I believe he'd make a far better right winger than a right back.  He has speed and is a decent crosser of the ball.

Wouldn't hurt to try with Kelly playing behind him, who also I might add likes to get up the field as well.  Could see some nice overlaps with those two on the right.

Johnsons a tricky player too, well capable of beating a man and would be capable of getting us goals too. With Kelly playing so well at right back I think its a no brainer to push Johnson into midfield. And even if we wanted to sell him we would recoup half the money we spent on him as a right back. Take a chance on him in midfield and if it works his transfer value might escalate.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 11, 2011, 05:14:17 PM
ASI I agree Lucas has improved this year and gives all in every game. But thats not good enough for a club that has ambitions to challenge for the league.
We're a few years away from challenging from the league.  And I think with good coaching he could improve further.

Quote
He will get his game time this season but unless Kenny can get him playing like no other Liverpool manager previously has then I couldnt see him holding down a regular place if we were to sign another quality central midfielder or two.
I'd expect us to strengthen in midfield but not before we have improved defence and added a second quality striker. If Kenny can get no more out of him then yes, we would need to look elsewhere but I don't see it as a priority.

Quote
Put it this way aside from hard work and determination what does Lucas offer the team that no other player offers us. What does he specialise in? Hes not a Masch type midfielder that breaks up play, hes not considered a passer. He doesnt get too many goals. We were led to believe he was a box to box midfielder when he was signed but Ive seen little evidence of that. Hes an honest player and definitely worth having in the squad but unless he improves dramactically I wouldnt consider he offers enough to keep a place in our midfield. This season he will be important for us but once we strengthen I think he will miss out more than not.
He has shown glimpses of what he can do when let off the leash. Unfortunately we haven't been in that position too much this season but with some better quality players in the team he can still make a contribution. I'd just like to see him go forward more often.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on January 11, 2011, 07:42:53 PM
I agree ASI, certainly out of Meireles & Gerrard, I thought Lucas was head and shoulders above them on Sunday. I'm not trying to disrespect either of the two, just saying that Lucas is under-rated IMO, where the deficiencies of more flashy players gets overlooked (e.g. it is really, really, really, stupid to get sent off against United at Old Trafford, cost us a cup and misses 3 games, should know better!).

He had the look of a senior player about him against United (did Babel??) and that's mad given that he's only just turned 24.

There is definitely still room for improvement but he gets it right in a lot of areas, attitude, courage, stamina, intelligence, technique. Perhaps the combo of Clarke and Dalglish will offer him more freedom to express himself going forward (e.g. Danny Agger)?

Anyway, to totally just disregard his progress at the club and replace him with whoever would be a touch rash I think. I'd prefer more patience!

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 11, 2011, 07:54:26 PM
Good points Ed. Although I don't like talking about the shower along the East Lancs Road Nani is one player who has improved because the coaches were of the required standard. I honestly believe that someone like Steve Clarke will be able to get more performance out of a lot of the players and that's before Kenny works his magic.

When someone is only 24 they can still improve their game. With the right coaching Lucas could become even better. We should give him, and all but the usual suspects a chance to improve before parting company with any.

Kenny said today he doesn't want any new recruits in as he wants to get the best out of what he already has. That to me sends a real message to the players that he has confidence in them that they can improve. Now that's team building!!
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 11, 2011, 08:04:11 PM
Sorry guys but if we're ever going to challenge for a top 4 position again Lucas cannot be a first team player on a regular basis.He's a good player to come in now and again but we can't harbour mediocrity if we have any ambitions of being great once again. Meireles had a poor game Sunday but has shown plenty of class, probably more in 5 months than Lucas in the whole time he's been at the club
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on January 11, 2011, 08:18:34 PM
If anyone saw Lucas' performances for Gremio before signing for us would have seen a completely different player to the one we've seen here. He's been asked to learn a whole new different role within a very different kind of game. Anyone who hasn't seen his previous performances has only had the chance to judge half the player based on how he's been used here.

I remember Alonso at Sociedad. I'd watch their games simply to watch Alonso. Difference is, he was used in the same way he was at Sociedad. Lucas has never had that chance.
I'm not saying he's an Alonso, that would be daft, but there's another side to his game he's not been allowed to utilise given the way he's been asked to play.

Midfielders have much more specific roles than 20 years ago. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 11, 2011, 08:44:22 PM
I like the look of Lucas.

And as Steven Gerrard begins to dominate the central midfield, less and less each season, as his krytonite begins to fade, I think other midfielders (like Lucas) will have the chance to shine. 

You just have to look at lads like Kuyt.  Under Hodgson they look like journeymen.  Under a good manager and decent system, they excel.  Lucas is no different.  With the right opportunity, he can make a real difference.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 11, 2011, 08:50:07 PM
If anyone saw Lucas' performances for Gremio before signing for us would have seen a completely different player to the one we've seen here. He's been asked to learn a whole new different role within a very different kind of game. Anyone who hasn't seen his previous performances has only had the chance to judge half the player based on how he's been used here.

I remember Alonso at Sociedad. I'd watch their games simply to watch Alonso. Difference is, he was used in the same way he was at Sociedad. Lucas has never had that chance.
I'm not saying he's an Alonso, that would be daft, but there's another side to his game he's not been allowed to utilise given the way he's been asked to play.

Midfielders have much more specific roles than 20 years ago.

But Tes its great playing well for your previous club but if Lucas cant replicate the type of form that convinced Rafa to pay 8 million for him then thats no good to us.

I dont think Lucas is a bad player and I would definitely keep him as a squad player but I would just question whether he can replicate his form for Gremio at Liverpool. If he cant then for me hes not good enough to start for a team that has designs on challenging for the league.

For now though until the team is improved he will play an important role for us.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 11, 2011, 08:50:09 PM
Fair comment. The best central midfield partnership we've had in a long time was alonso and mascherano. We need to aim towards something like that. I just can't see how lucas fits in.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 11, 2011, 08:53:01 PM
On another subject I read that Pacheco had a stromer of a game today for Liverpools reserves. And to make things even better Kenny was in attendence. I would love to see him get a shot at playing off torres.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 11, 2011, 08:58:28 PM
He scored a belter. And saric's goal set up by Pacheco was even better
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 11, 2011, 09:05:34 PM
Good stuff. If Kenny thinks hes good enough he wiill have no problem throwing him in if Shelveys run at OT is anything to go by
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 12, 2011, 08:57:13 PM
blackpool v liverpool

very ordinary first half - two early goals, one for each team.

Jovanovic gets a start.  To my eyes, he looks unfit, and maybe a few lbs past his best fighting weight.

Poulsen does not look good enough to me.

Pretty ordinary fare to date.    Plenty of huff and puff from the reds.....with no quality of any note to be seen.   Good finish from Torres - but he should not be scoring from that angle.  Mess for their goal......midfield messed up.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 12, 2011, 09:06:41 PM
Dude I thought it was probably one of our livliest away games of the season.

We are passing well keeping the ball well. Nando scored a belter. This has been a million miles away from most away matches we've seen under Roy.

Defensively we were awful for the goal, Taylor Fletcher strolled in to score. But we have looked more attacking. Lucas wasted a couple of chances to put Torres or Kuyt in. Jovanovic looks rusty to say the least and is a bit all over the shop.

Lively game, not bad to watch, more goals to come but definitely a huge improvement already.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 12, 2011, 09:15:54 PM
definitely lively, Juan.

but i see very little quality on display. 

blackpool have had the best of the second half so far - tho torres had a sweet volley there now.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 12, 2011, 09:18:15 PM
Getting cut open too easily in the second half. Reina just pulled off a super save to kepp us level. Defensively we look very vulnerable.

As for Lucas being a box to box midfielder, im afraid not on the evidnece of some of his final passes tonight. He hasnt a clue what to do in and around the oppositions box and generally picks the wrong option.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 12, 2011, 09:24:43 PM
if I were our owners, I would want to know why our players are supposedly worth a king's ransom, and paid accordingly.......when they could have blackpool's lads, at a tiny fraction of the money.

big money players should be very technically gifted.  Our pass and move should blow away teams like blackpool.

many of our lads look like strangers.....as if they have never played with each other before.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 12, 2011, 09:28:27 PM
Thats true Dude.

In fairness that Blackpool goal was coming.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 12, 2011, 09:29:43 PM
2 - 1 blackpool.

DJ Campbell header, header, totally unmarked.  I assume Johnston should be covering that man.

Wonder will Andy Gray and the media puppets start lambasting man to man marking now - given such a soft goal. 

bring back zonal marking.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 12, 2011, 09:31:20 PM
Thats true Dude.

In fairness that Blackpool goal was coming.

agreed, Juan.

blackpool look the better team.......and could score more.

we are very disjointed.....any attacks we do, are sporatic.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 12, 2011, 09:32:29 PM
Can't believe this. 2-1 Blackpool. We need to give kenny a war chest and quick. Johnson at left back instead of konchesky suggests he'll be out the door soon
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 12, 2011, 09:43:30 PM
I'm following game on BBC text service but will watch highlights on Sky at 10pm. Not looking good. I wonder if Roy is having a laugh.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 12, 2011, 09:56:09 PM
Well we've changed the manager and we're still rubbish. Where do we go from here? All the more disappointing when you consider we were 1-0 up inside 3 minutes. Grgghhhh!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 12, 2011, 09:58:21 PM
Roy has no reason to laugh, his 6 month tenure is partly one of the reasons we are in this situation.

Shocking second half performance. On tonights second half performance we alomost need a whole new 11.

I'm not joking when I say out of the 11 that started tonight I would keep Torres, Reina and Kelly. The rest arent fit to wear the jersey.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 12, 2011, 10:00:03 PM
Blackpool have done the double over us!!! They're saying on the radio we didn't even have the appetite to push for an equaliser. Time to dig deep John and give the king some cash to buy some real quality.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 12, 2011, 10:03:23 PM
defence-wise - konchesky has to go.  johnston is also a rubbish defender.  I'd give him one last chance, on the right side of midfield.  If he was useless there too, sell him in the summer.

my goal is 40 points.  We need to win our home games - otherwise, we are going to be fighting a relegation battle very soon.



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 12, 2011, 10:05:52 PM
I actually thought we were very unlucky on the night, altho that is no excuse at all for our total collapse after they scored their second. Up til then I was pretty sure we'd win it. Blackpool were extremly lucky to get away with three points tonite. But then again, the ref really had it against us. They fell over and instantly won a free-kick, while 2-3 players were hanging around NGog's neck towards the end and he got nothing. No wonder we didn't get a peno in the dying seconds of first half when Adam clearly handballed on his own goalline.

All in all, I thought we played well for about 65 minutes. Lucas in particular I didn't recognise. Active, mobile, straightforward passing, wanted the ball. Well, about everything he never displayed before he pulled off tonite. Also thought Jovanovic was a clear improvement on Maxi. Especially so if you take into account this was his first PL start for exactly 4 months. Great goal by Torres but he really doesn't have it in him anymore. His ability to explode I mean.

Last 20 we sucked tho and it's worrying that we're giving up so easily. Defeat to Everton and a couple of draws against Wolves and Fulham and we've put ourselves in a tricky spot.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 12, 2011, 10:09:32 PM
Well we've changed the manager and we're still rubbish. Where do we go from here? All the more disappointing when you consider we were 1-0 up inside 3 minutes. Grgghhhh!

We need two new centre backs and a left back.

Agreed re Johnson Dude, try him in midfield or sell him, he is rubbish in defense.

I could forgive Jovanovic, Poulsen or Agger for being rubbish, they havent played much football this season. I'm more disappointed by Skrtel, Johnson, Lucas, Kuyt, Meireles.

John Tom Damien and Kenny might want to start talking about some panic buys because if we keep this form up we could be dragged into a relegation fight.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 12, 2011, 10:13:53 PM
I actually thought we were very unlucky on the night, altho that is no excuse at all for our total collapse after they scored their second. Up til then I was pretty sure we'd win it. Blackpool were extremly lucky to get away with three points tonite. But then again, the ref really had it against us. They fell over and instantly won a free-kick, while 2-3 players were hanging around NGog's neck towards the end and he got nothing. No wonder we didn't get a peno in the dying seconds of first half when Adam clearly handballed on his own goalline.

All in all, I thought we played well for about 65 minutes. Lucas in particular I didn't recognise. Active, mobile, straightforward passing, wanted the ball. Well, about everything he never displayed before he pulled off tonite. Also thought Jovanovic was a clear improvement on Maxi. Especially so if you take into account this was his first PL start for exactly 4 months. Great goal by Torres but he really doesn't have it in him anymore. His ability to explode I mean.

Last 20 we sucked tho and it's worrying that we're giving up so easily. Defeat to Everton and a couple of draws against Wolves and Fulham and we've put ourselves in a tricky spot.

Were we watching the same game Martin? First half I thought we played well. Second half we got destroyed and we were lucky to come out of there 2 down. Blackpool totally deserved the win.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 12, 2011, 10:18:01 PM
Also thought Jovanovic was a clear improvement on Maxi.

let's agree to disagree, martin.  I thought Jovanovic was awful.  He looked entirely our of condititon.  Maxi is a good little player. 

I thought, like Juan, that we were awful second half.  Indeed, entire game, we were nopthing to write home about.  No quality at all was on display.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 12, 2011, 10:50:01 PM
MartinMarx and I must have been watching different games. I thought we were pretty awful. For those that criticised Carragher consider how bad our defence has been since his injury. We've not had one clean sheet in PL games since he was injured.

Agree with Juan that Johnson should be tried at RW. Aurelio is needed at LB.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 12, 2011, 11:03:02 PM
Trying to take positives from tonights game maybe losing away to Blackpool wont turn out to be all that bad.

Maybe it will make people be more realistic about size of the task Kenny has on his hands and wont expect him to come in and work miracles straight off.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 12, 2011, 11:06:20 PM
Anyone know if John Henry was at the game tonight? I heard he was flying in today. Although he knows very little about football, he's a very clever guy. Surely he knows we need strengthening. I keep hearing January's not the time to make additions but I don't think we've got a choice. There's got to be players available that are better than some of our current lot
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 12, 2011, 11:15:22 PM
Anyone know if John Henry was at the game tonight? I heard he was flying in today. Although he knows very little about football, he's a very clever guy. Surely he knows we need strengthening. I keep hearing January's not the time to make additions but I don't think we've got a choice. There's got to be players available that are better than some of our current lot

I dont think so. The tv cameras would have picked him out if he was but I never saw him or any of his contingent.

I'd start with someone like Ryan Shawcross. Then I'd work on getting Insua back and maybe a partner for Nando. But to be honest Kopite theres not many players fit to wear the shirt.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 12, 2011, 11:23:27 PM
MartinMarx and I must have been watching different games. I thought we were pretty awful. For those that criticised Carragher consider how bad our defence has been since his injury. We've not had one clean sheet in PL games since he was injured.


Couldnt agree with you more there. Yes carra has lost pace but he's a leader and the absence of him in the dressing room shouldnt be underestimated. Gerrards captain on paper but carra is the one that'll say it as it is.  I'm starting to think we need a team of mainly British players that know liverpool football club and what it means. We've got a lot of foreign mercenaries at the moment(not all of them I must add) that are more interested in their wage packets than walking through a brick wall for the club. Personally I'd rather fat trev from my local pub play rather than poulson

ps I've heard jovanovic is on 120,000 grand a week. Does anyone know if that's true?
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 12, 2011, 11:36:34 PM
Just read he's on 60000 a week. But in the same story it said johnsons on a 120000. dont know how reliable that is.

Tes your normally excellent with getting figures. If you don't mind  I'd love to see the current squads weekly wages if you'd know where to find them??then we can really lay into the fat cats that aren't performing and ship them out. We've got one of the highest wage bills in the league and I don't want to sit back whilst they're robbing us
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 13, 2011, 08:23:58 AM
Were we watching the same game Martin? First half I thought we played well. Second half we got destroyed and we were lucky to come out of there 2 down. Blackpool totally deserved the win.

Put into context and compared to many other performances this season I think this was a step forward. I won't get blinded by the negative result or the fact we strugged to create a lot of chances. But fact of the matter is that we managed to keep the ball, pass it while move around and willing to push forward. A lucky break here or there and we would've been up and could've built on it. It wasn't to be, but I really thought we had a good enough game for 65 minutes. As I said above and in concert with the rest of you, I'm too worried over how we went about thing last 20-25. We were dire and never looked like clawing our way back into the game once they scored. In short, I don't think we were that poor some have it.

Rather than putting the blame for this malaise on Roy I'd point to Rafa and his mismanagement during his last two years with us (bar that 3 months spell in spring 2009 I probably have to add).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 13, 2011, 10:43:37 AM
Put into context and compared to many other performances this season I think this was a step forward. I won't get blinded by the negative result or the fact we strugged to create a lot of chances. But fact of the matter is that we managed to keep the ball, pass it while move around and willing to push forward. A lucky break here or there and we would've been up and could've built on it. It wasn't to be, but I really thought we had a good enough game for 65 minutes. As I said above and in concert with the rest of you, I'm too worried over how we went about thing last 20-25. We were dire and never looked like clawing our way back into the game once they scored. In short, I don't think we were that poor some have it.

Rather than putting the blame for this malaise on Roy I'd point to Rafa and his mismanagement during his last two years with us (bar that 3 months spell in spring 2009 I probably have to add).

I do agree with you there Martin, I thought at times we did pass it well and you can see that Kenny is trying to play a more attack minded game. Unfortunately for us somtetimes our midfield relinquished posssession too easily and our defence was just abysmal. Also I agree we did get in positions at times where if our final ball was better the likes of Torres could have been put in on goal. Lucas was guilty of playing abysmal balls into the final third from good attacking positions and thats one of the reasons I think  he will never be good enough to be our first choice central midfielder.

It would be unfair of me to try and blame it all on Roy because in the last season under Rafa it was clear we had problems. But I also think its unfair to blame it all on Rafa. In his defense he finished 7th last season not 17th so things were never as bad as this season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 13, 2011, 01:00:23 PM
It would be unfair of me to try and blame it all on Roy because in the last season under Rafa it was clear we had problems. But I also think its unfair to blame it all on Rafa. In his defense he finished 7th last season not 17th so things were never as bad as this season.

It would, of course, be absurd to reduce the current situation by saying it's all Rafa's fault. It is a combination of poor judgement on Rafa's part and the ownership issues. One could argue Liverpool's decline started with he appointment of GH. Because, ever since, we've splashed out hundreds of millions resulting in us sitting tight with  mediocre squad 12 years later. It's this slow but steady decline that finally hits home and if Roy was ever wrong it was when he said the club's in a transitional phase. It isn't. It's at rock bottom where all the values, tradition and belief's have been undermined. The bootroom's gone the unity between fans-players-manager Shanks once spoke of is gone. In short, the Liverpool way's gone and need to be reinvented/re-identified.

That's why I say we shouldn't make any major signings in January.  I say, let Dalglish and Clarke work with what they have and lets see where we are at the end the season (I cannot see us get relegated, I honestly can't). Then the board should decide whether to keep Kenny or not. If they decide to go long term he will have a much better idea about which players to keep/reject/sign. That means our scarce resoursces will most likely be more rationally spent. In any case the catastrophic transfer strategy that has plagued this club for over a decade MUST come to an end. That's an absolute must if this club is to go anywhere. More than anything we need a transfer strategy springig out of a wider ideology what it means to be a Liverpool player. I remember this anecdot from the 80's where Sir Bob said it took just a week or so to spot a player, but up to two year to determine whether the player had the right human qualities to play for Liverpool. I want more of that. I don't want robots, or posh player caring but nothing but their own success. We need to rebuild all this, that's why I say I believe it'll be at lest 2015 until we play Champions League footy again.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on January 13, 2011, 02:15:35 PM
It's going to take time for Kenny and clarke's influence to have an effect on the team but at least we started to play attacking football...we need to get rid of the fear of losing and so playing for a draw...which i think last night showed we are beginning to...but with all things it's going to take time...better in the first half...not good in the 2nd and woeful in the last 20 minutes or so..

i think certain decisions have to be made about johnson...i don't know whether he's deemed an unlucky talisman or whether he just plain unnerves the rest of the defense and from that the rest of the team...
he is no defender..mourinho would not play him...says it all..so his days as a liverpool defender must be coming to an end..perhaps there will be a reprieve for him if he is tried out on the right wing...for then he can
attack...and then occasionally defend which let's face it is what he does anyway...he should play there until the end of the season and if he fails shipped out...i hope he is a success...

kelly and aurelio (with insua as back up)...as right and left back..then once we can defend it spreads to the rest of the team...

lucas is not a creative midfielder and we DESPERATELY need a creative playmaker...who can control the game and pass to Torres...

We need a decent striker..(i think luis suarez would do the job (without the biting...though to be honest but to coin a phrase 'i'd love it if suarez had a bite on gary neville, love it!!)

And it's nice to see martinmarx say we were playing more positive football last night..we were and we were at old trafford...BUT...all the stuff over blaming rafa..or even houllier...

we seriously need to get over it..big styley...for example..look at blackpool last night...fair credit to them and holloway...3 in attack and went for the game at home..bravo..that's what we used to do...

Houllier has long gone (we have to look at the last 6 years) and in the first 3 years of rafa's reign we were in the European Champions league final twice and we one it once...three months before that 2ND final we were sold down the river by moores and parry (worth mentioning)...
and thus the steady and slow decline in the last 3/4 years were down to hicks and gillette...SIMPLES!

After the yankees got in and the big name signings of torres and mascherano...rafa had to sell in order to try to compete against chelsea and manure...he couldnt keep players like crouch, bellamy etc...(alonso was a balls up but he's spanish and would always want to play for Real)...but he got pretty good money for them....

his last season was a failure...but as his system was built around torres and gerrard...and them being unfit for the majority of the time then..it showed...we ended 7th...
i freely admit to feeling that rafa had lost the dressing room in that time and asking if maybe rafa's time was up...(all the photo's of gerrard and torres looking at each incredulously didn't help - but as we have seen for the last year or so the media has a different agenda)
In hindsight it was down to hicks and gillette but we weren't being told the in's and out's of the inside dealings of the club at the time...we were only 7 points off 4th...in that season...3 points being that bouncing ball at sunderland...with a fit gerrard and torres we would have made fourth...

rafa didn't have a catastrophic transfer policy...cos he had a net spend of 25 mil over 3 years under the carpetbaggers...not sure why people can't understand this...i'm sure rafa would have loved to kept hold of some players but he couldn't...he needed raised funds to buy players to improve the squad...

i utterly believe kenny will turn it around and i think we might just sneak a european place...any mention of 4th was gone under Roy...personally i would have preferred rafa (but i'll back Kenny all the way) but it'll take time....Roy had the luxury of 6 months for the benefit of the doubt, Kenny is in a situation of 3 or 4 games...from what i have seen in the last 2 games under kenny was progress...we'll be fine...

John Henry has picked up his hammer and maybe two additions would come in handy this january...but to coin another phrase...

'build it and they will come'...


Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 13, 2011, 02:34:56 PM
@martinmarx

I think your looking too deep into it if you think the decline started under GH. Since then we've been ranked the best team in Europe and regularly qualified for the champions league. I think the decline only started since we finished 2nd in the league. We had a cracking team that needed a little fine tuning but due to the clubs financial position we couldn't make the additions that would have pushed us a bit further. We were so close to putting together a title winning team. since then a civil war has strangled the club. Rafa at war with owners and fans at war with the owners and each other. And on top of this I think we've failed to replace hypia, alonso, mascherano and even arbeloa and keane. I'm not saying keane was any good for us I'm just saying we didn't replace him with a quality striker to help out fernando out.

Unfortunately I think your right about the next time we'll be in the champions league. The only way it'll happen sooner is man city like investment but that's not going to happen
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on January 13, 2011, 04:45:30 PM
@martinmarx

I think your looking too deep into it if you think the decline started under GH. Since then we've been ranked the best team in Europe and regularly qualified for the champions league. I think the decline only started since we finished 2nd in the league. We had a cracking team that needed a little fine tuning but due to the clubs financial position we couldn't make the additions that would have pushed us a bit further. We were so close to putting together a title winning team. since then a civil war has strangled the club. Rafa at war with owners and fans at war with the owners and each other. And on top of this I think we've failed to replace hypia, alonso, mascherano and even arbeloa and keane. I'm not saying keane was any good for us I'm just saying we didn't replace him with a quality striker to help out fernando out.

Unfortunately I think your right about the next time we'll be in the champions league. The only way it'll happen sooner is man city like investment but that's not going to happen

exactly. top post.

It has got worse this season but this is primarily a result of lack of any significant investment in the team in the last 4 transfer windows. Nesv have redeemed themselves by showing their listening to the fans now and maybe they will see the need for a larger amount of team investment than they had anticipated (judging by their comments) both this January and next summer. While they were being loyal to RH I was beginning to lose faith but now I think we can start to move forward. Rafa was a greater manager than people realised to get this squad into Europe last season, but I think Kenny is just as good and will do everything humanely possible to help the club.  The negativity in our play started as soon as Alonso left - we need a creative passing midfielder, a reliable forward and a fast centre back and at least one winger (maybe a left back too), so that is going to take cash. I havent got a scooby as to what our financial health is but its clear we need to make very astute buys - and Id trust kenny with that.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on January 13, 2011, 10:22:25 PM
The only scrap of comfort I could draw from the game is that Dalglish gives a damn fine press conference. No bullshit there....Nice to see Moyes in the crowd, going to be a cracker @ Anfield on Sunday (Hope Nando brings his Magic Wand  ;D)
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 13, 2011, 11:40:19 PM
Sunday we'll be a lot better than last night. The atmosphere is going to be the best of the season so far and will make the difference.2-1 to the reds with probably a couple of red cards.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Clem on January 14, 2011, 12:06:49 AM
It's going to take time for Kenny and clarke's influence to have an effect on the team but at least we started to play attacking football...we need to get rid of the fear of losing and so playing for a draw...which i think last night showed we are beginning to...but with all things it's going to take time...better in the first half...not good in the 2nd and woeful in the last 20 minutes or so..

i think certain decisions have to be made about johnson...i don't know whether he's deemed an unlucky talisman or whether he just plain unnerves the rest of the defense and from that the rest of the team...
he is no defender..mourinho would not play him...says it all..so his days as a liverpool defender must be coming to an end..perhaps there will be a reprieve for him if he is tried out on the right wing...for then he can
attack...and then occasionally defend which let's face it is what he does anyway...he should play there until the end of the season and if he fails shipped out...i hope he is a success...

kelly and aurelio (with insua as back up)...as right and left back..then once we can defend it spreads to the rest of the team...

lucas is not a creative midfielder and we DESPERATELY need a creative playmaker...who can control the game and pass to Torres...

We need a decent striker..(i think luis suarez would do the job (without the biting...though to be honest but to coin a phrase 'i'd love it if suarez had a bite on gary neville, love it!!)

And it's nice to see martinmarx say we were playing more positive football last night..we were and we were at old trafford...BUT...all the stuff over blaming rafa..or even houllier...

we seriously need to get over it..big styley...for example..look at blackpool last night...fair credit to them and holloway...3 in attack and went for the game at home..bravo..that's what we used to do...

Houllier has long gone (we have to look at the last 6 years) and in the first 3 years of rafa's reign we were in the European Champions league final twice and we one it once...three months before that 2ND final we were sold down the river by moores and parry (worth mentioning)...
and thus the steady and slow decline in the last 3/4 years were down to hicks and gillette...SIMPLES!

After the yankees got in and the big name signings of torres and mascherano...rafa had to sell in order to try to compete against chelsea and manure...he couldnt keep players like crouch, bellamy etc...(alonso was a balls up but he's spanish and would always want to play for Real)...but he got pretty good money for them....

his last season was a failure...but as his system was built around torres and gerrard...and them being unfit for the majority of the time then..it showed...we ended 7th...
i freely admit to feeling that rafa had lost the dressing room in that time and asking if maybe rafa's time was up...(all the photo's of gerrard and torres looking at each incredulously didn't help - but as we have seen for the last year or so the media has a different agenda)
In hindsight it was down to hicks and gillette but we weren't being told the in's and out's of the inside dealings of the club at the time...we were only 7 points off 4th...in that season...3 points being that bouncing ball at sunderland...with a fit gerrard and torres we would have made fourth...

rafa didn't have a catastrophic transfer policy...cos he had a net spend of 25 mil over 3 years under the carpetbaggers...not sure why people can't understand this...i'm sure rafa would have loved to kept hold of some players but he couldn't...he needed raised funds to buy players to improve the squad...

i utterly believe kenny will turn it around and i think we might just sneak a european place...any mention of 4th was gone under Roy...personally i would have preferred rafa (but i'll back Kenny all the way) but it'll take time....Roy had the luxury of 6 months for the benefit of the doubt, Kenny is in a situation of 3 or 4 games...from what i have seen in the last 2 games under kenny was progress...we'll be fine...

John Henry has picked up his hammer and maybe two additions would come in handy this january...but to coin another phrase...

'build it and they will come'...

Bart Man, thats one of the best summaries of life over the past few years and still gives a nod to future confidence. Played a blinder, my son.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on January 14, 2011, 12:55:39 AM
I think that to get some consistency in the results, we need some consistency in the line-up and some kind of system and balance. All season who's responsible for what, it's never apparent. Too much doubling up in some areas and leaving gaps in others. Take the other night Lucas is doing his thing (some kind of defensive midfield role), where Poulsen fits in is difficult to figure (does anyone know?).

There's no balance on the flanks, a pacy right-footed defender on the left with Jovanovic (a clumsy dribbler)....the other side Kelly (solid) with Kuyt (giving the ball away way too much recently)....unfortunately IMO Kuyt tracks back way too far to help Kelly leaving us no attacking outlet on that side and encouraging the opposition to pile forward. Surely there is a point at which one of the defensive mid-fielders should be across (Poulsen?) to clean things up? Grrr...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 15, 2011, 09:49:47 AM
@martinmarx

I think your looking too deep into it if you think the decline started under GH. Since then we've been ranked the best team in Europe and regularly qualified for the champions league. I think the decline only started since we finished 2nd in the league. We had a cracking team that needed a little fine tuning but due to the clubs financial position we couldn't make the additions that would have pushed us a bit further. We were so close to putting together a title winning team. since then a civil war has strangled the club. Rafa at war with owners and fans at war with the owners and each other. And on top of this I think we've failed to replace hypia, alonso, mascherano and even arbeloa and keane. I'm not saying keane was any good for us I'm just saying we didn't replace him with a quality striker to help out fernando out.

Unfortunately I think your right about the next time we'll be in the champions league. The only way it'll happen sooner is man city like investment but that's not going to happen

I think we're talking about different things here mate. In  my previous post I tried to describe that we've lost the social fabric that ultimately made it possible for us to dominate the domestic game for two and a half decade. As for us finishing 2nd I don't know if you're referring to 2002 or 2009. In either case I don't agree at all with your conclusions. We weren't just there or thereabouts. In 2002 we never really were in it. Arsenal had wrapped it up with 7 games to spare and the only reason we finished 2nd was they beat ManU at OT in the 2nd last game of the season. As for 2009, I think Fergie was right that season wasn't a true reflection of our genuine level which the following season painfully pointed out. I will maintain our decline started under GH, he never got his signings spot on, he never understood what footy he needed to play, and he always rated workhorses ahead of elegant players able to contribute positively to our game. I also think his "transfer policy" was a total and utter catastrophy costing us dearly over time.

Finally GH out long overdue and Rafa in. At the time I was delighted we could lure him to Anfield. It also goes without saying up until his split with Pako I thought he had us moving in the right direction. After that things took a turn for the worse permanently. Add to that the G&H situation (which I always thought was a tad exagerated) and Rafa losing his head unprecedentedly demanding total control over the club's transfer activity. Not only did he buy mediocrity, selling creative players while sticking with his loyal workhorses and strengthen us where we were already strong. He also felt a need to start uncalled conflicts both internally and externally. He was the first manager to continuiously wash our dirty laundry in public, demanding the undemandable so to speak. Much of the current chaos is down to G & H, this wasn't any of their fault tho.

Rafa was always good in Europe, I don't dispute that. At the same time he never really understood the English game. He always held CL success over PL dito, despite Shanks teaching us a couple of decades previously what was our bread and butter. You may say this is a peripheral point, but I seriously think most of the values and ideas this club once built its success on has slowly been turned upside down. I may sound like a conservative old fart but I really really think Fergie to some extent proves my point. Especially as he said most he knew about footy when he took over at ManU he learnt from Liverpool. I'm not saying we should walk towards yesterday, but I definitely think we need to decide what past ideal and values should be adopted to the present.

Oh, and I think your point on the handling of Keane is a brilliant one as it really highlights the difference between LFC of the 80's and LFC of the 00's and how far from our past traditions we've fared.  Rant over.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on January 15, 2011, 10:24:55 AM
Yes and Martin you believed of Fergie when he told us that wasn't our true level in 08/09.

We had the best tactical system in the league imo with players suited to their positions.

Reina as goalkeeper, best in the league. Arbeloa at right back - not the greatest but very dependable and solid in defence (something I admit Johnson is not) Aurelio at left back. Again not the greatest, but technically he was good and could both defend and attack at a decent level. The central defenders of Carra, Hyypia, Agger and Skrtel. 2 top class in Hyypia and Agger 1 solid in Carra and 1 average in Skrtel.

We had the best central midfield in the league with Alonso and Mascherano. Kuyt the workhorse on the right and and underrated Albert Riera on the left who gave us excellent balance in midfield. Whilst Kuyt and Riera were not the best in their respective roles compared to others in the league, at that time, they both offered something to us in that midfield.
Then we have Gerrard and Torres up front destroying teams with their partnership.

What the real problem with that team is that we had no depth of class after that and Rafa failed to allow the players that extra freedom on the pitch thus stopping them reaching their true potential as players.

But set that 11 aside and compared to other first XI's in 08/09 and quite simply ours was the best imo.

If only we could have built on that team instead of destroying it. And yes Rafa does take some blame in that definitely.

But Martin if you listen everything whisky nose said about us then I worry for you :D

He hates us more than any other club in the world, his deep hatred of us will never allow him to have a clear and true opinion of us.

But I don't really want to take about the past we need to look to the present and worry about here and now.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on January 16, 2011, 02:57:03 PM
Nice to see us play some football against everton in the first half. Hope we keep it up.

Kelly looks the dogs bollocks and Johnson a reformed player on the left.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 16, 2011, 05:23:16 PM
We're leaking goals, we're totally unorganised, we're pathetic definsively. Everton did the same move and we failed to learn inevitably leading to a goal. Skrtel is a liability and our fullbacks couldn't defend to save their lives.

Until we've rebuilt our shaky and talentless defensve we'll continute to give away points.

Other than that I thought we hade a pretty good game. First half we were awesome and should've scored at least another goal.

Torres really looks like he's getting back to his best. So unlucky with his brilliant effort hitting the post. But that's how things are when you're deep down in it - nothing's for free, nothing's easy.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on January 16, 2011, 05:36:04 PM
Whenever we go behind we always seem to lose confidence quickly and feel sorry for ourselves.

I do agree with your assessment Martin, but I thought Kelly was again quality at right back, another top notch performance from him, however I would now like to see an Agger-Kelly central defensive partnership, with carra and wilson back ups. Skrtel is a liability and should be sold.

But also the 2nd half showed quite clearly that Agger is our best defender. With Agger and Kelly already in defence, we just need to add 2 pieces to that back 4 to make it complete.

I also thought Johnson on the left showed glimpses of class, especially with our first goal, but it is obvious that he should be deployed in the midfield rather than at full back.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on January 17, 2011, 06:26:45 AM
Agreed with the shocking defending but they looked like goal kicks to me...but i think the defending will get better with confidence...which can already be seen to be seeping into the rest of the team...we attacked and we looked like we wanted to win...we have a whole week of training now before the wolves game and hopefully kenny and clarke's methods will start to play dividends, especially in defense!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 17, 2011, 06:59:00 AM
Whenever we go behind we always seem to lose confidence quickly and feel sorry for ourselves.

I do agree with your assessment Martin, but I thought Kelly was again quality at right back, another top notch performance from him, however I would now like to see an Agger-Kelly central defensive partnership, with carra and wilson back ups. Skrtel is a liability and should be sold.

But also the 2nd half showed quite clearly that Agger is our best defender. With Agger and Kelly already in defence, we just need to add 2 pieces to that back 4 to make it complete.

I also thought Johnson on the left showed glimpses of class, especially with our first goal, but it is obvious that he should be deployed in the midfield rather than at full back.

True, both Kelly and Johnson were impressive going forward. However, both struggle defensively and especially on our own last 3rd. Again, Kelly's getting better by each game. May turn out the surprise of the season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 17, 2011, 10:26:32 AM
True, both Kelly and Johnson were impressive going forward. However, both struggle defensively and especially on our own last 3rd. Again, Kelly's getting better by each game. May turn out the surprise of the season.

The difference between Kelly and Johnson in defence is that Kelly has a future at right back, Johnson doesnt. Kelly is young enough to keep improving, I'm not sure Glen has that luxury. Why nobody has tried Johnson in midfield is a mystery. As blatantly obvious are his weaknesses as a defender, equally it is very clear he is very capable in attack.

Until the elephant in the room is dealt with and by that I mean Skrtel and the left back position we are going to struggle. And until we shore up the defence I dont think we will be able to tell if Agger is still the player he once was or whether he too needs replacing. Agger was great in years gone by but with injury and loss of form he hasnt been consistent for a long while now

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on January 18, 2011, 12:13:31 AM
I thought there were lots of positives from the derby (not least the mention of a Steve Mc Mahon challenge on Pat Van den Hauwe back in the old days).

I was happy enough with the selection, feeling that Maxi gives us more balance in midfield and thought that Spearing also gives us more bite than Poulsen. Torres is definitely looking more menacing and surprisingly even Johnson has a spring in his step (hair tied back) has that old bounce and elasticity going forward. Kelly has come in and I think that he's shown enough both away to Utd. and home to the Toffees to have a fair claim to the starting spot at right back. Good to see Meireles get off the mark (needs to keep it up though!).

Unfortunately Skrtel is a big disappointment (seems lost without Carragher) and just doesn't seem capable of being anything other than a very average centre back (one who seems to have an estranged relationship with the football...have we met before) not to mention rising to meet the challenge of being first choice for Liverpool. Pretty useless at set-pieces too. I read somewhere he drives a Bentley ::)

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on January 18, 2011, 01:42:09 PM
Some other news from the independent from 4/5 days ago talked about 2 items that i hadn't heard about...

1. we had sacked all our european scouts (bar one)....with any new scouts will be under the largess of comolli...seriously hoping that comolli does his stuff because thats a lot of power in his hands...
2. our new CEO to be was the ex CEO from Celtic...




Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 22, 2011, 02:47:11 PM
What a transformation from the side that played Wolves on 29 December!!

Good vision from Poulsen for the pass to Meireles who squared for a Torres tap-in. Wonderful strike from Raul for number 2 and fine passing for the third - another Torres tap-in.

The passing, movement and vision is back and it's all thanks to Kenny. The future's bright - the future is RED!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 22, 2011, 04:31:30 PM
excellent win.

only 11 points away from the magical 40.

 ;)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 22, 2011, 04:47:00 PM
excellent win.

only 11 points away from the magical 40.

 ;)

40 points? Presumably the safety point to avoid relegation. I think when you see the way they played today dude you will banish such thoughts. Night and Day springs to mind comapred to the debacle at Anfield a mere 24 days ago.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 22, 2011, 04:57:24 PM
40 points? Presumably the safety point to avoid relegation. I think when you see the way they played today dude you will banish such thoughts. Night and Day springs to mind comapred to the debacle at Anfield a mere 24 days ago.

that's great to hear, asi.

I missed the game on tv.......assumed as usual that it would be a Sunday game, or maybe a late kickoff.  Grrr.  I could have watched it live, if I had known.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 22, 2011, 05:34:25 PM
that's great to hear, asi.

I missed the game on tv.......assumed as usual that it would be a Sunday game, or maybe a late kickoff.  Grrr.  I could have watched it live, if I had known.

What a pity. Wolves tried to play the same man-marking stifling game they did last month but we moved the ball too quickly and players moved too quickly for them to have any answer to it. They had plenty of possession but Pepe wasn't that busy. Wait until you see Raul's goal. A contender for goal of the season.

We have a game at home against Fulham on Wednesday at 20:00GMT so maybe you can catch that although it isn't being shown on Sky or ESPN here.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on January 22, 2011, 07:02:03 PM
Call it arrogance but in terms of the result that's the Liverpool I grew up supporting, downloading the game at the moment, back later with some sort of opinion....
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on January 23, 2011, 03:06:52 AM
Good result (shed pitch) and there appear to be signs of an attacking partnership/ understanding between Torres & Meireles. In particular Meireles was effective today, needs to keep it up though (gives Joe Cole something to think about).

I'm happy enough that with Stevie G returning on Wednesday, there's a core attacking threat of him, Meireles and Torres supported by Kuyt & Maxi/Cole (My impression is that goals can come from at least 4 of that 5). Defensively though we're still a bit shaky, but I suppose if Kuyt, Lucas and Maxi track back there's probably enough there short term (that can be compensated for by everyone working hard), certainly with the home fixtures.

I'm not jumping for joy yet but we appear to on the right track and relegation is definitely no longer an issue which was not the case under Hodgson. Well done lads NEED TO KEEP IT UP & DO BETTER THOUGH!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 23, 2011, 10:20:19 AM
Good result indeed. So happy to see us win with room to spare. Raul Meireles is taking a step forward each game. He's still guilty of having a tendency to waste the ball but all in all he was a giant in the absence of Steven. Also thought Torres, again, looked more lively and up for it. Kuijt was immense and so was Reina. Not that he had a lot to do but you really can tell he provide calm and leadership for the rest of the team.

Did anyone notice how our 3rd was an echo from the 80's? 30 passes on the trot (yes, I counted them all) before Torres slotted home from close range. I haven't seen us score a goal like that for many many years. It makes a conservative, nostagic old fart like meself smile all night and day. Hopefully there's more to come. Still, it has to be said, against a better team Skrtel's game would probably have hit us hard.

Bring on Fulham! Well done lads!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on January 23, 2011, 02:02:12 PM
Excellent result and the blank sheet was a welcome sight as well..
saw the highlights only (sadly) on motd...but even so and in comparison with our showings in the previous year or so it was like watching a different team! Almost like watching us when we did real madrid and manure...in that glorious week...i'm still cautious however and refuse to get ahead of myself..
the motd 'analysis' showed that there were 4 players who attacked as one..(torres, merieles, kuyt and maxi) which was a real pleasure to see...they worked well together as well...
it'll be interesting to see where suarez and adam fit in but there's nothing better than a richness of available players...
it will also be interesting to see where gerrard is placed when he returns...

they say a week is a long time in politics..
3 weeks in football is far longer...
Kenny has obviously brought in belief... attacking away from home was a fantastic sight...
and nous...kelly at right back...and johnson at left (which tbh i didn't think of)
 
very positive...and long may it continue..
p.s skrtel still looks dodgy but that belief and the clean sheet may well transform him as well..anyone know when carragher is back?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on January 24, 2011, 11:57:16 PM
I agree with all the comments above great result.

To win 3 nil away to any team is an achievement no matter who you are and saturday was no different at Wolves.

The lingering shadow of the Hicks and Gillette regime finally feels like its been lifted and the team, club and fans are showing signs of moving on. Unfortunately it was always going to take Roy to leave for that to happen.

Back to the game and it was already a million miles from what we witnessed with Roy. Its great to see that Kenny is bringing back the pass and move ethos to the club. The build up and execution of Rauls goal was superb.  One worrying aspect was us being pinned into our 18 yard area for long periods of the second half but I can see us improving each week. Torres looks delighted by Kennys appointment, I get the impression that his and Reinas futures are no longer in question. If we can add some quality in this window it would be great to see us make that long awaited charge up the table
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 25, 2011, 12:12:25 AM
I wont be convinced torres will be here next season until the 1st September. But your right things are looking brighter for him to want to stay
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 26, 2011, 10:13:26 PM
Very disappointing performance really. We were very fortunate to win this and wouldn't have survived another 4 minutes. We look disorganised, unstructured and totally without a plan. Individually some players are really good but as a team there's not much hope for the rest of this season. Skrtel had a stinker - again. Against better opposition we'll be punished heavily regardless of how good Torres et.al. performs.

Reina - Saved us. Bestest keeper in the world like.

Kelly - Struggles to control the ball. Poor reading of the game and difficulties to get into the right position defensively doesn't help. I know he's the new mascot and all but I do not think he's good enough at this moment.

Skrtel - A liability. End of.

Agger - Doesn't seem to command the same authority he once used to have. It's obvious he and Skrtel doesn't play well together.

Johnson - Another inspiring performance. Been a revelation since moving to the left. Have difficulties with his left foot sometimes but often compensate for it by getting past opposition.

Kuijt - Great work rate as per usual. Not as effective and involved as against Wolfes but good enough I say.

Poulsen - His best performance in a red shirt. Keeps it simple and seem to find his role and position on the pitch.

Gerrard - A disappointment really. Wasted many balls and kept trying the difficult option. Contributed very little tonite.

Meireles - Another brilliant performance. Keeps us mobile and unpredictable. Our most important player at the moment.

Maxi - Surely Jovanovic is gay and Dalglish must be homophobic. What other reason to keep Maxi in the team game after game? Unbelieveable really.

Torres - Can do much better than that.

A win against Stoke is a must or this good run will come to a premature end. If that is to happen we need to up our game some 60-70 per cent because during the last 20 you'd be forgiven for thinking Rafa was still in charge. That's how bad it was.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on January 26, 2011, 10:33:02 PM
Thanks for the summary MartinMarx. I'm about to watch the highlights on Sky. I suppose we can't turn every team over. The last two seasons under Rafa ended 0-0 at Anfield against Fulham.

You have to go back to Nov 2007 for our last win at home against them, 2-0. When you win without playing well isn't it called "winning ugly"? I'll take that.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on January 26, 2011, 11:59:16 PM
When you win without playing well isn't it called "winning ugly"? I'll take that.

The Mancs have done it several times this season and previously and we used to be the masters of it.
3points, 2 consecutive wins and another clean sheet will help build confidence. As confidence builds, the performances should follow - that's Plan A at least.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 27, 2011, 02:21:23 AM
Very disappointing performance really. We were very fortunate to win this and wouldn't have survived another 4 minutes. We look disorganised, unstructured and totally without a plan. Individually some players are really good but as a team there's not much hope for the rest of this season. Skrtel had a stinker - again. Against better opposition we'll be punished heavily regardless of how good Torres et.al. performs.

Reina - Saved us. Bestest keeper in the world like.

Kelly - Struggles to control the ball. Poor reading of the game and difficulties to get into the right position defensively doesn't help. I know he's the new mascot and all but I do not think he's good enough at this moment.

Skrtel - A liability. End of.

Agger - Doesn't seem to command the same authority he once used to have. It's obvious he and Skrtel doesn't play well together.

Johnson - Another inspiring performance. Been a revelation since moving to the left. Have difficulties with his left foot sometimes but often compensate for it by getting past opposition.

Kuijt - Great work rate as per usual. Not as effective and involved as against Wolfes but good enough I say.

Poulsen - His best performance in a red shirt. Keeps it simple and seem to find his role and position on the pitch.

Gerrard - A disappointment really. Wasted many balls and kept trying the difficult option. Contributed very little tonite.

Meireles - Another brilliant performance. Keeps us mobile and unpredictable. Our most important player at the moment.

Maxi - Surely Jovanovic is gay and Dalglish must be homophobic. What other reason to keep Maxi in the team game after game? Unbelieveable really.

Torres - Can do much better than that.

A win against Stoke is a must or this good run will come to a premature end. If that is to happen we need to up our game some 60-70 per cent because during the last 20 you'd be forgiven for thinking Rafa was still in charge. That's how bad it was.

Harsh especially on agger and Kelly. Agger is getting better after his injury. There's nothing better than watching a centre back that can play surge forward. and Kelly did make a couple of small errors but more than made up for it getting to the byline and putting in good crosses.

Equally I thought kuyt and poulson were very poor.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on January 27, 2011, 03:02:22 AM
I note Johnson got an even tighter haircut....wondering if Daglish is trying to convince him that he is John Barnes? :D
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 27, 2011, 10:42:39 AM
I note Johnson got an even tighter haircut....wondering if Daglish is trying to convince him that he is John Barnes? :D

lol. I actually looked on to the pitch last night and for a split second and from a distance thought it was barnesy
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on January 27, 2011, 01:50:46 PM
fairly mundane first half.

it came to life in the second half.

very concerning to see the ease with which fulham bossed many periods of the game.

fulham will have been (as kenny admitted afterwards) extremely disappointed to leave anfield with nothing.

Gerrard was awful.  Time after time, rather than take the easy option, he tried the ridiculous (and gifts possession to the opposition).  I would have him playing on the right, and eventually left back (in the dressing room).



Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 27, 2011, 01:59:39 PM
I'm not going defend Gerrard too much because he wasn't at his best. But he seemed to me to be a lot more interested last night and covered more ground than he has done this season. I wouldn't write him off yet. He hasnt played for a few weeks.I've got a feeling under kenny he'll be back to his best and come may he'll be lifting the Europa league in Dublin
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 27, 2011, 02:15:58 PM
I note Johnson got an even tighter haircut....wondering if Daglish is trying to convince him that he is John Barnes? :D

It's funny you should mention that Ed.  Johnson had an attempt on goal coming in from the left wing and having his shot tipped over the bar by the Fulham keeper.  Very Barnes like, especially with his new hair-do  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 27, 2011, 04:10:41 PM
Harsh especially on agger and Kelly. Agger is getting better after his injury. There's nothing better than watching a centre back that can play surge forward. and Kelly did make a couple of small errors but more than made up for it getting to the byline and putting in good crosses.

Equally I thought kuyt and poulson were very poor.

I don't think Kelly should be exempted from scrutiny just because he's the fan's favorite. Fact of the matter is that he's struggling with his ball control and feels anything but solid defensivly, e.g. Johnson cruising past him with 7-8 minutes to go wasn't acceptable he way it happened. I know Konchesky would've been slaughtered if he did the same.

What good is it if he makes a few good runs if he committs basic errors (NB! not small dittos) that leads to us conceding goals? None in my book. I like the lad, don't get me wrong.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on January 27, 2011, 04:52:21 PM
He's young and done brilliant to make the right back slot his own. He's going to make mistakes but he'll learn. He's one of the best prospects to come through the ranks in a long time. Get behind the lad coz he's our future captain in the making
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 27, 2011, 09:04:32 PM
He's young and done brilliant to make the right back slot his own. He's going to make mistakes but he'll learn. He's one of the best prospects to come through the ranks in a long time. Get behind the lad coz he's our future captain in the making

Ditto..
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on January 28, 2011, 07:22:18 AM
He's young and done brilliant to make the right back slot his own. He's going to make mistakes but he'll learn. He's one of the best prospects to come through the ranks in a long time. Get behind the lad coz he's our future captain in the making

How do you argue with or against such reasoning? You can't. End of discussion it seems. It's like the Roy discussion the other way round. Must say I'm impressed by this fortunetelling gift LFC fans allegedly have.


Boring.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on January 28, 2011, 10:52:51 AM
Must say I'm impressed by this fortunetelling gift LFC fans allegedly have.

Why thank you sir!  ;D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on January 28, 2011, 05:21:18 PM
Balls of crystal.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on January 30, 2011, 06:47:51 PM
Fair play to Danny Murphy today! 2 Penalties!!  :)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 03, 2011, 12:38:41 AM
Solid performance. Some very nice movement at times. Two well taken goals. The games these days look a million miles from when Roy was at the club although in fairness to Roy he had a few good home performaces.

After a poor game against Fulham we definitley stepped it up again. And aside from the odd scare Reina had very little to do. Its amazing that these are the same players that played under roy because its pretty much been a complete transformation.

One grievance I do have at times is that it can often take us a long while to get going. You look at United and they are generally out of the blocks like a flash and often get very early goals.

Anyway if we can beat Chelsea on sunday I reckon we're back in the title race  :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 03, 2011, 10:06:31 AM
Good performance tho we still lack quality in some of the things we're trying to do, thus making it increasingly easy to keep us at arms length.

Finally the PL has got itself a world-class referee. That was arguably the best piece of refereeing I've seen since spending too much time during the 90's watching Serie A and a young Collina debuting. This fella got it spot on from start to finish. An example for the rest of the wankers to follow.

Lucas, Lucas, Lucas, when will we ever see the back of you? You're so outright worthless it's ferkin unbelieveabe. Never in the history of this club has such a poor player got so many games yet developed so little. Never. For two and a half years he's been played regurarly, yet he's on exactly the same level making the same basic mistakes, still to weak to withstand a tackle. Hilarious tho when he ran towards the corner to make that flick.  :D Talk abot lack of insight.

Very very happy to see Surez score. Also thought he was mobile, quick in though and pacey. Anyone else agree he wasn't very unsimilar to Owen back in the day?

Kelly, continue to struggle with his positional game and ball contol. Might be risky to play him there on Sunday.

Kyrgiakos was phenomenal throughout the game. And so was Agger.

Gerrard my MOTM.

All in all I'm much less depressed than a month ago. It's a bit frustrating Carroll's so far away from returning. Having been out of the game for two months + changed club in the meantime my hopes aren't big he'll get a start to his Anfield career similar to that of Suarez.

Can we beat Chelsea?
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 03, 2011, 09:03:59 PM
Probably not if I'm realistic. I'd be happy with a well earned point given their recent form. But ive seen stranger things happen in football and if anyone can do it the king can.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 03, 2011, 09:16:09 PM
the king rules in london.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 03, 2011, 11:47:32 PM
It's a big ask but if we were to beat them Sunday we'll only be 6 points behind them!! Champions league football anyone??
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 03, 2011, 11:49:19 PM
wouldn't that be awesome, kopite.

a mere 6 points behind them and it is only the start of February.

mind you, looks like united are gonna overtake our title record this season. 
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 04, 2011, 12:21:49 AM
It would be a very sad day if they did win it this season, but I can think of a lot worse that could have happened to us if Hicks and gillette had remained in charge.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on February 04, 2011, 03:10:28 AM
Interesting formation v's Stoke, maybe like Dalglish said he was just using the best of what he had available but it certainly worked, imo, joining defence to midfield which has been a serious problem all season in both directions, but particularly defending.

Great to see Agger in full flight for the opener (could be back to his old self?)

Mad thing was Skrtel seemed to keep cropping up high up the pitch (never seen that before!)

Kuyt MOTM imo (and I think he'll be the biggest help to Suarez as he settles in!)

Nothing wrong with Lucas tonight, imo, started the best move of the game (the pass and move bit just before half time that ended with a Kuyt shot) and set up the chance for the second goal. Chalkboard says out of 74 passes, 66 were successful 8 unsuccessful v's Gerrard 77 passes, 61 successful, 16 unsuccessful.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/O12qD1M4K2BpOZ98p8c7

I think we were the better team tonight even though we rode our luck for both goals but we need to keep this up!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 04, 2011, 05:43:34 AM
Kuyt MOTM imo (and I think he'll be the biggest help to Suarez as he settles in!)

Nothing wrong with Lucas tonight

I think we were the better team tonight even though we rode our luck for both goals but we need to keep this up!!!

tonight??   you gotta get a quicker feed, Ed  :D   That Stoke match was several days ago.

Agreed re Kuyt and Lucas.

Heck, like I said many times, Kuyt (along with Reina) would be my first name on the team sheet.

Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 04, 2011, 12:45:35 PM
If arsenal win the league cup(assuming they qualify for champions league this year) and a team that qualifies for the champions league wins the f a cup, does the Europa league place go to the runners up of that competition or does it mean extra europa league qualification places in the league?  Hope that makes sense!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on February 04, 2011, 03:52:35 PM
tonight??   you gotta get a quicker feed, Ed  :D   

Yeah, caught the 60 min highlights on Sky but wanted to get a good look at the full game ahead of Chelsea and mysoccerplace didn't have one so had to get it elsewhere!

The lads at zonal marking aren't reading too much into the formation v Stoke!

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/02/03/liverpool-2-0-stoke-tactics/
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 04, 2011, 08:15:31 PM
Yeah, caught the 60 min highlights on Sky but wanted to get a good look at the full game ahead of Chelsea and mysoccerplace didn't have one so had to get it elsewhere!

The lads at zonal marking aren't reading too much into the formation v Stoke!

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/02/03/liverpool-2-0-stoke-tactics/ (http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/02/03/liverpool-2-0-stoke-tactics/)

 thanks for the mysoccerplace link, Ed.  That is a new one for me. 
 
 aye, zonalmarking are like the rest of us - as yet unsure re how Kenny will adjust his tactics.
 
 I am still looking for the stoke match.............4 channels here were all covering 4 different live premiership games that night....but friggen none of them were our match.  Frustrating.
 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on February 04, 2011, 09:11:28 PM

 I am still looking for the stoke match.............
 

Hey dude, I got it here!
http://liverpoolfcclips.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 05, 2011, 12:24:31 AM
Hey dude, I got it here!
http://liverpoolfcclips.blogspot.com/ (http://liverpoolfcclips.blogspot.com/)

YOU are a star, Ed!! 

Many thanks!

I get my weekend Match of the Days at uknova (great torrent forum for British telly).

But these midweek MOTD's are a tad difficult.

Thanks again for this super link.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on February 05, 2011, 01:38:42 AM
Thanks again for this super link.

No bother! Note, I couldn't get the .mkv files to play using VLC and needed to install the CCCP pack:

http://www.cccp-project.net/

to get them to play on Windows Media Player in Windows! Not exactly sure what I was doing but it worked  ;D!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 05, 2011, 11:34:36 AM
vlc is good.....used it across the years a fair bit.

but I use GOM Player (http://www.gomlab.com/eng/GMP_download.html) this past year or two......excellent (no need for additional downloads). 

and the other free player I use, is Media Player Classic Home Cinema (http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/download-media-player-classic-hc.html).  Also excellent - and the best to use when a video's audio is low and hard to make out (which is sometimes an issue on laptop's speakers/audio card).

the only format I struggle with, across all the players, is flac.  Mind you, I can never figure why any music fan puts audio into this bizarre format. 





Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 06, 2011, 02:57:17 PM
Big game today to test our progress. Hoping for a win but even if we lose as long as we put in a shift and a good performance I'll be happy.

Come on you redmen!!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 06, 2011, 03:51:34 PM
I'm going for a one nil to the pool.

An unlikely Skrtel header from a corner.

Oh and for Torres to pull his hamstring
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2011, 04:35:50 PM
maxi - WTF

miss of the season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2011, 04:43:29 PM
maxi - WTF

miss of the season.

Doing his ex-Atletico team mate a favour?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2011, 04:51:54 PM
Doing his ex-Atletico team mate a favour?

maybe.

I was starting to celebrate - before realising the net wasn't bulging.  And I could not figure why.

I am afraid the talking point at half-time was this awful miss.

It was a tap-in. 

Now I know some *tap-ins* are far from simple (and the know-nothings in the media don't appreciate that).....but this was a simple one.  Surreal. 

Ronnie Rosenthal is somewhat off the hook now.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2011, 05:29:17 PM
1-0 to Liverpool.

Moreless scores!!!!I love this guy.

Roy found us a diamond.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2011, 05:31:53 PM
1-0 to Liverpool.

Moreless scores!!!!I love this guy.

Roy found us a diamond.

It's definately 'more' at the moment. What's that 4 in 5 games?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2011, 05:48:13 PM
Roy found us a diamond.

Still not convinced he was.  Roy said on numerous occasions he'd not had time to really scout players properly in the short amount of time he'd been at the club prior to the Summer window shutting.
Also, he mentioned something along the lines of finding out where his best position was (in one of his 'infamous') interviews. And if he'd known all about the player, at least enough to feel confident in paying the money we did, why play him so badly out of position?

Poulsen and Konchesky, for obvious reasons. Jones had been a target of Fulham's previously.

I think there were a few players that had been scouted by Macia, who he knew to be strong choices of Rafa's and Pursestrings went with it. Likewise, Joe Cole. England international on a free transfer seemed like a 'no-brainer' to our 'football managing' MD.

I'm not trying to put Roy down, but Meireles is not in the price band of players he would have known about through his Fulham days, and the limited time he had available and all the comments he's made about the squad doesn't seem to stack up that he saw what was needed and had time to decide who fitted that criteria.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 06, 2011, 05:54:34 PM
Geeeeeeeettttttttt iiiiiiiiinnnnnnn ttttthhhhheeeeerrrreeeeer!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2011, 05:58:54 PM
you could well be right, Tes.  Maybe a Macia find.

i love him, Tes.  Best volleyer of a ball at the club, imho.

As for the 1-0 result.

The King always rules in London.

The estranged former prince sulks away into the dark winter night, grasping his 20 pieces of silver in his boney hands.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 06, 2011, 06:09:59 PM
That game has aged me ten years!!!!! Great performance. Outplayed them all over the park. Soo proud of the boys. Kenny has worked magic with this team. Closing down all the time and never giving up. Every single player played well. Actually they didn't just play well they were all immense.

 A special mention for carra who was out of this world. Who's saying he's past it now?!!!

This new formation suits the players we've got down to the ground.

Absolutely over the moon!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 06, 2011, 06:32:04 PM
I did feel a little sorry for Fernando today. Strikers only have a 10-13 year career and he's over half-way through his and hasn't won anything at club level. I can understand why he has left. All his Spain team mates have won honours with their clubs except him (and Pepe of course) and he must be desperate. He can't afford to wait for us to rebuild.

That was a brilliant performance today. Reminds me of how we played in spring 2009 under Rafa. Who would have thought Kenny could turn things around so quickly? Praise must also be given to Steve Clarke. And all without our two new buys.

Just 6 pts behind a CL place now but probably 9 given Spurs have a game in hand. More than gettable given current form. Happy days indeed!
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 06, 2011, 06:40:35 PM
Feel sorry for Torres?!!!!! My bottom. He deserves all the crap he gets. The disrespect he showed us on plastic flag tv will never be forgotten. I'd love it if Chelsea fail to qualify for the champions league next year and we qualify instead. Hope his remaining days are filled we hamstring pulls and broken legs.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on February 06, 2011, 06:41:53 PM
A fantastic display from the lads.  Played with intelligence and composure.   

Bring on Wigan......
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 06, 2011, 07:17:56 PM
Fantastic result! Fantastic performance! We owned Chelsea from start to finish and if it wasn't for the worthless Maxi we'd won it even bigger. Kuijt tonite showed he's truly a great player. IMHO, he was by far the best player on the pitch. If there was ever an unsung hero at Liverpool, he's the one. Also thought both Gerrard and Meireles proved their class.

On the downside of things tho we have Lucas, Maxi and Skrtel. On another day they would've cost us the game, but thanks to an indifferent Chelsea display it thankfully didn't happen.

Thought Carra was phenomenal on his comeback and so was Agger. Johnson played very well and even Kelly showed he's maturing by each game. It has to be said tho he should've set up Meireles after 15 where half the pitch was open but he failed to deliever.

Official stats said they had 4 shots on goal. I must've missed them somehow because I don't remember them. Never again will Reina have so little to do at the Bridge.

A truly impressive performance that keeps hope of finishing top 4 alive.

Well done Redmen!!!  :)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2011, 07:25:29 PM
I did feel a little sorry for Fernando today. Strikers only have a 10-13 year career and he's over half-way through his and hasn't won anything at club level. I can understand why he has left. All his Spain team mates have won honours with their clubs except him (and Pepe of course) and he must be desperate. He can't afford to wait for us to rebuild.

That was a brilliant performance today. Reminds me of how we played in spring 2009 under Rafa. Who would have thought Kenny could turn things around so quickly? Praise must also be given to Steve Clarke. And all without our two new buys.

Just 6 pts behind a CL place now but probably 9 given Spurs have a game in hand. More than gettable given current form. Happy days indeed!

It would still take a collapse from both Chelsea and Spurs for us to get fourth, but the great thing is we now can dream. We're looking up instead of worriedly over our shoulder.

Talking of Torres (ish), by all accounts Fabrigas spent the second half yesterday simply going through the motions.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 06, 2011, 07:26:31 PM
Agree with everything you said martin apart from chelsea being poor and Lucas. We bossed the game and didn't let Chelsea play. We were all over them like a rash. And I've been critical of Lucas in the past but I thought today especially in the last 20 minutes he was everything we want him be every week.

How did maxi miss that open goal? And that pass to Torres first half was dreadful. I don't want to be to critical after today's game but I think if kenny stays maxi will be sold in the summer
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2011, 07:31:26 PM
I don't want to be to critical after today's game but I think if kenny stays maxi will be sold in the summer

No need to keep him to appease our centre forward. I think we will see a cull of older players in the Summer, especially those on a pretty penny. Just hope the axe doesn't fall on Kuyt. Like Sami before him, he's the shining  example of what the 'professional' in professional footballer is all about.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on February 06, 2011, 07:35:12 PM
Jesus, the whole club needed that win today and fair play to all the lads for delivering for us!!! :D

Nothing but praise for everyone involved, need to keep it up though!



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2011, 07:44:35 PM
Feel sorry for Torres?!!!!! My bottom. He deserves all the crap he gets. The disrespect he showed us on plastic flag tv will never be forgotten. I'd love it if Chelsea fail to qualify for the champions league next year and we qualify instead. Hope his remaining days are filled we hamstring pulls and broken legs.

kopite, I'd love it, if when these financial fair play rules get introduced, teams like chelsea find it impossible to qualify for the CL each season.

mercenaries like torres, always chasing the big pay and glory, would be fecked.

the irony would be delicious.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on February 06, 2011, 08:30:26 PM
Kenny must have almost cemented his permanent place as manager now...Clarke is also essential to the future of the club...
4 clean sheets says it all...nice to see the exact same group of players so woefully mismanaged by Hodgson come up trumps today...

and after the horror of the first part of the season and looking at a relegation dogfight, i have to say what a pleasure it is to actually look at the table again! 6 points to fourth...who would have thought that just 4 weeks ago?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 06, 2011, 08:39:05 PM
Feel sorry for Torres?!!!!! My bottom. He deserves all the crap he gets. The disrespect he showed us on plastic flag tv will never be forgotten. I'd love it if Chelsea fail to qualify for the champions league next year and we qualify instead. Hope his remaining days are filled we hamstring pulls and broken legs.

I'm probably wasting my time but have a read of this article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/8305965/Chelsea-v-Liverpool-silver-not-gold-is-the-real-reason-for-Fernando-Torress-acrimonious-move.html) and maybe you'll see him in a different light. We have become a stronger side after his departure so I have no problem with him leaving after the initial disappointment last weekend.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 06, 2011, 08:43:59 PM
It would still take a collapse from both Chelsea and Spurs for us to get fourth, but the great thing is we now can dream. We're looking up instead of worriedly over our shoulder.
Stranger things have happened. I think Chelsea are probably okay for CL football but Spurs far less so. They have to play Chelsea, Man City and us all away from home plus CL games.

Quote
Talking of Torres (ish), by all accounts Fabrigas spent the second half yesterday simply going through the motions.
So did most of the Arsenal side in the second half apparently! Arsene must have gone mental  ;D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2011, 08:50:52 PM
Arsene must have gone mental  ;D

That's if he saw it.  :D
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 06, 2011, 09:58:47 PM
Ive read loads of articles on Torres recently and at the end of the day he was willing to leave us in the sh!t not long b4 the window closed. Then when he signed for them he said he was now at a big club!!! It really wouldnt surprise me if they(chelsea and torres) had it planned all along.I won't go on because he's the past and I don't really want to talk about him anyway. Especially after such a great win and a team that's now fighting for every ball

And aggers elbow on Torres was priceless!!
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 06, 2011, 10:09:19 PM
Looks like gerrards out of the England squad this week now because of injury. I have my doubts there's anything wrong with him though TBH. I think it might be a gesture from capello considering the last time he played for them he got injured late on in a friendly.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 06, 2011, 10:39:00 PM
Kopite, happy to put the Torres thing to bed and focus on the positives. Did anyone know this is the first time we've won 4 league games on the trot since we put Bolton, Burnley, West Ham and Hull to the sword in Aug/Sept 09 scoring 16 and conceding 5?

Prior to that we had two 5-win sequences split with a draw in that great 2008/09 season. 10 out of 11! But back then we had Alonso, Hyppia and Masch in the team. Allegedly stronger that our current team! Just imagine what we might becapable of with a fit Carroll and Suarez!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2011, 10:40:30 PM
I think it might be a gesture from capello considering the last time he played for them he got injured late on in a friendly.

Hope you're right Kopite. At least there's no risk being taken with him and depending on the severity, hopefully the rest will sort. I think we've got to get accustomed to Gerrard having more of these problems. It's reoccurring too often now for it to be a 'new' injury.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2011, 10:43:39 PM
Kopite, happy to put the Torres thing to bed and focus on the positives. Did anyone know this is the first time we've won 4 league games on the trot since we put Bolton, Burnley, West Ham and Hull to the sword in Aug/Sept 09 scoring 16 and conceding 5?

Prior to that we had two 5-win sequences split with a draw in that great 2008/09 season. 10 out of 11! But back then we had Alonso, Hyppia and Masch in the team. Allegedly stronger that our current team! Just imagine what we might becapable of with a fit Carroll and Suarez!

And the washer's had a rest with four clean sheets. The impressive thing about our recent run is when you look at the corresponding fixtures over the last couple of seasons, Wolves, Fulham and Stoke have all been the source of dropped points.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 06, 2011, 10:53:40 PM
kopite, I'd love it, if when these financial fair play rules get introduced, teams like chelsea find it impossible to qualify for the CL each season.

mercenaries like torres, always chasing the big pay and glory, would be fecked.

the irony would be delicious.

Its seems the fate of the financial fair play rules is all going to depend on how strictly it will be regulated.

John Henry admitted he was very surprised Chelsea bid 50 million for Torres because a couple of days before their accounts showed losses for the previous year of 70 million. Apparently the fair play rules state you cant be showing losses for the 3 previous seasons before you enter the Champions League. If thats the case how do Chelsea plan to manage that?

As for the game superb. I was as nervy as the CL semi we played against them at the bridge. Kenny however he is managing to do it is transforming the way the team play, from relegation candidates to European hopefuls in the space of a month is nothing short of miraculous. And whether he ever admits it I'd say there is a piece of doubt in Nandos mind as to whether hes made the right move. Had this game been played on the sunday before the transfer window shut and had we acheived the same perforamce and result would Torres still have left for Chelsea? I doubt it very much.

As for feeling sorry for him, no chance. Torres could have gone graciously but he chose to stick the boot in when he left with some very poor choice of words in more than one interview. With that team ageing rapidly and with Chelsea under pressure to clean up their act financially this season could represent Nandos best chance he has of winning anything at Stamford Bridge, and who could see them overhauling the likes of United now or stopping the likes of Barca in europe. Highly unlikely.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 06, 2011, 11:05:35 PM
Roman probably thinks he can do the same to uefa as he did to FIFA when Russia won to host the world cup. He trades in brown envelopes!!!

Next 3 games for us are Wigan at home west ham away and then man u at home. All very winnable. Surely we can't win them all?!!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 06, 2011, 11:12:20 PM
So true about Roman Kopite. Surely it will have to come to a head in the next few years. What would Torres do if Chelsea were excluded from the CL? He will get himself a set of Man City armbands just in case. anyway enough of Torres.

As for this winning run, I see no reason why it cant go on until May!  :o
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on February 07, 2011, 07:43:00 PM
Danny Agger's "block" in the Chelsea game! I keep laughing every time I see it and the quick handshake with Carra after it is priceless  (the Chinese commentators are hilarious) ;D

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/dan-agger-foul-torres-8418332/

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 07, 2011, 08:01:08 PM
Danny Agger's "block" in the Chelsea game! I keep laughing every time I see it and the quick handshake with Carra after it is priceless  (the Chinese commentators are hilarious) ;D

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/dan-agger-foul-torres-8418332/

Crassic!!  ;D
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 10, 2011, 08:22:39 PM
I got asked a question today that I couldn't answer. Man utd to win the league and overtake us on league titles but beat our rivals for fourth in the process and we sneak in to 4th place? OR man utd fail to win league and we finish outside top 4?

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 10, 2011, 08:35:05 PM
I got asked a question today that I couldn't answer. Man utd to win the league and overtake us on league titles but beat our rivals for fourth in the process and we sneak in to 4th place? OR man utd fail to win league and we finish outside top 4?

definitely manure to not win the title.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 10, 2011, 08:38:14 PM
I got asked a question today that I couldn't answer. Man utd to win the league and overtake us on league titles but beat our rivals for fourth in the process and we sneak in to 4th place? OR man utd fail to win league and we finish outside top 4?

It doesn't need much thinking about Kopite. Not to me anyway. The first option of course. Let the Mancs have their 19th title. They'll never get 5 European Cups under misery guts. Once we're back in the CL the club will become more attractive to potential future players and our income will rise quite a bit. Let them have no 19 plus £500M of debt!

Of course we could finish 4th or better and they may not finish top. That would be my perfect option!
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 10, 2011, 09:42:46 PM
I'm swaying towards us getting 4th. Only because I think this summer is pivotal to us. A champions league place next year really could shape the next couple of years for us. As we all know top foreigners crave champions league football. So if we want to have the best we have to have it. Also reina would hang around.

 On the flip side we don't want a situation where we qualify next season but not the year after and then everybody wants a move away!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 10, 2011, 10:13:39 PM
The race doesn't end at 19. They can get to 19 before us, but we'll reach 25 before them.

We need to be in the CL to attract players. Unfortunately the modern player is more interested in the image than the substance. Some want both, but few want the latter over the former.

Hence Chelsea and now Mansour City being regarded as 'big' or 'important' clubs.  ::)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 10, 2011, 10:14:11 PM
Kopite, I'm pleased that you've chosen what is best for LFC and ignored our rivals. It annoys me that so many players deem the CL matches to be so important whilst the Europa League is deemed unworthy. I don't remember the old UEFA Cup (that we won in 2001) being held in such contempt.

UEFA need to rething these competitions as it makes no sense players wishing to join a league of 6 games some of which are dead rubbers. Time to return it to a knockout competition even if it means the champions could be knocked out in the first round as we were in 79 when we lost to Forest.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 10, 2011, 10:16:55 PM
UEFA need to rethink these competitions as it makes no sense players wishing to join a league of 6 games some of which are dead rubbers. Time to return it to a knockout competition even if it means the champions could be knocked out in the first round as we were in 79 when we lost to Forest.

excatly.

been saying the same for years.

tho sadly, turkeys won't vote for Christmas (the big european clubs run football these days)

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 10, 2011, 10:29:54 PM
excatly.

been saying the same for years.

tho sadly, turkeys won't vote for Christmas (the big european clubs run football these days)

They definitely have too much power dude as has been shown by comments Lord Triesmann made this week about his time as Chairman / President of the FA. Scudamore / Sky / Murdoch run English football now. How I detest all they stand for. Remember last weekend and the record number of goals scored? That is only since 1992. No mention was made of records before that year. Football doesn't exist for these morons before then. 100 years of football instantly forgotten. Grrgghh!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 11, 2011, 12:08:17 AM
They definitely have too much power dude as has been shown by comments Lord Triesmann made this week about his time as Chairman / President of the FA. Scudamore / Sky / Murdoch run English football now. How I detest all they stand for. Remember last weekend and the record number of goals scored? That is only since 1992. No mention was made of records before that year. Football doesn't exist for these morons before then. 100 years of football instantly forgotten. Grrgghh!!!

agreed, asi.

I saw Lord Triesmann's quotes about how the Premiership (and scudamore) refused to countenance any changes.  Scandalous.

all these premiership people care about is money.....and there is never enough of it, for them.

the 39th game - and it taking place abroad, was beyond contemptuous.  Not only did it stick two fingers up at fans of the English game, but it also treated other nations (and their football championships) with total contempt.

you know, in the pre-sky days, we got our football for free.  Now we are paying a king's ransom for the same product (ok, admittedly, they do have cameras at every ground now).

murdoch (and his allies) are despicable.    Greed runs through the core of their being.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 11, 2011, 07:11:26 PM
I must admit Dude that I do enjoy watching footie on the TV and I'm looking forward to the Manc derby tomorrow. But I'm lucky because I can afford the subs Sky charge. They must be worried about this court judgement last week that allowed a Portsmouth landlady to appeal the charge that she couldn't buy footie from a Greek company.

If that is allowed it would kill Saturday football here as it wouldn't prevent 3pm matches being shown live for a fraction of the price we currently pay. Sky could fold but if that happens who takes up the mantle? You could have all games controlled by a foreign body who treat the clubs and the fans even worse than Sky.

Better the devil you know maybe?
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 11, 2011, 08:15:28 PM
The money sky pay for the premier league is madness. It's keeping clubs a float at the moment. I just can't help thinking it's all a house of cards waiting to fall
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 11, 2011, 08:29:37 PM
The money sky pay for the premier league is madness. It's keeping clubs a float at the moment. I just can't help thinking it's all a house of cards waiting to fall

It's heavily loaded in favour of the Premier League. Clubs in lower divisions are really struggling. A few years ago Stockport were in the same division as Man City. Now look at their situations. Stockport are at the bottom of league 2 and will probably go out of the league this season. They could really do with a few decent players. Manure recalled two players from Preston when Ferguson's son was sacked as manager. Those players are now languishing in the reserves.

They could be loaned out to Stockport. City too could help their neighbours either financially or with some players. Stockport is only 10 miles from both grounds.

Nothing will happen and Stockport will get relegated whilst players at those clubs pull in more money in a week than County players make in several years. Those Manchester clubs should be ashamed of themselves.

In comparison Liverpool do at least try to help Tranmere with a friendly most seasons I believe.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 11, 2011, 08:49:50 PM
I must admit Dude that I do enjoy watching footie on the TV and I'm looking forward to the Manc derby tomorrow. But I'm lucky because I can afford the subs Sky charge. They must be worried about this court judgement last week that allowed a Portsmouth landlady to appeal the charge that she couldn't buy footie from a Greek company.

If that is allowed it would kill Saturday football here as it wouldn't prevent 3pm matches being shown live for a fraction of the price we currently pay. Sky could fold but if that happens who takes up the mantle? You could have all games controlled by a foreign body who treat the clubs and the fans even worse than Sky.

Better the devil you know maybe?

if murdoch's empire were to crash in the morning, I would be cracking open a bottle of bubbly, ASI.

i cancelled my membership 5 years ago.  I had been with sky since the start (late 80s).  But I was just fed up with the ghastly money in football.

if a monthly full sports package subscription were to suddenly drop to 5 pounds a month, players would still be earning a massive wage (maybe Torres would fall from 175,000 quid a week, to 25,000).

if this madness goes on unchecked, then we are heading for the american sports model - where the fees and wages are even more ghastly that the english premiership.

and despite all the money at present in football - clubs still are stupid enough to be operating at massive losses.

sanity needs to be restored.





Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 11, 2011, 09:08:59 PM
Predictions for tomorrow?

I'd like us to stuff em by a few but I'd be just as happy with another 3 points. That would mean 15 points from the last 5. If Sunderland beat spurs we'd be within touching distance of them. And we've got to play spurs and city at home yet. I'm fully expecting them 2 to have a bad spell aswell. I don't want to be too over confident but if we can keep playing the way we are, there's really a chance at 4th. Something I thought was impossible a few weeks ago
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 11, 2011, 09:26:43 PM
3-0

re 4th spot.........chelsea and spurs are 6 points clear with a game in hand.

we have t oget ahead of both, to claim 4th.

Given Chelsea have a massive lead re goal difference, their lead is effectively 10 points (if they win the game in hand).

can we pick up a ten point gap, in the reaming 12 games.....a tall order.  But let's give it a shot.  If we can win another 3 or 4 on the spin, then things might get interesting.

I'd love Arsenal to also get their act in order........and for us to beat Man Utd in March, to give Arsenal a helping hand to the title.


Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 11, 2011, 09:45:39 PM
I forgot about their games in hand. I was getting a bit carried away.it's a funny old game though. I've been to the Europa league games this year and although it's been good to see the youngsters get a run out the grounds only been half full and the atmosphere hasn't been great. We've had some great champions league nights in recent times and it would be great to see them again next season although I'm probably getting carried away again
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on February 11, 2011, 09:50:40 PM
I'm expecting a good game from Lucas tomorrow (if he's not too tired), must be buzzing after a busy 90 mins. in the Stade de France on Wednesday.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 11, 2011, 10:12:08 PM
Kuyt or Johnson to score first 3-0. I'm hoping Suarez will start and we play the same formation. Maybe put him in instead of maxi
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 11, 2011, 10:34:26 PM
I hope after last weeks result some of the players dont just think they have to turn up tomorrow to get the win. Complacency is my big worry. I'm finding it hard to see past a 2 or 3 nil socreline but my head is ruling this time and im going for a narrow 2-1 win. Hopefully its not so close but I will just be very interested inseeing how the players cope after the Chelsea win.

If Fulham and Sunderland were to take points off Chelsea and Spurs then the door for fourth could creep open again.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 11, 2011, 10:37:01 PM
if murdoch's empire were to crash in the morning, I would be cracking open a bottle of bubbly, ASI.

i cancelled my membership 5 years ago.  I had been with sky since the start (late 80s).  But I was just fed up with the ghastly money in football.
That's a brave move dude. I love the footie too much to do that. Besides, it would need thousands to do it and there's no chance of that despite the recession.

Quote
if this madness goes on unchecked, then we are heading for the american sports model - where the fees and wages are even more ghastly that the english premiership.

and despite all the money at present in football - clubs still are stupid enough to be operating at massive losses.

sanity needs to be restored.

Are you sure there are many clubs with massive losses? Chelsea and City certainly, Spurs possibly. But the rest are probably reasonably sensible. Manure make money, it's only the owners that are responsible for the debt. I'm pleased to say we must be making quite a bit with the recent transfer action resulting in a near-zero balance and profits up with fans buying from the club again.

Agents are the enemy as well and should be used as target practice. They cause more player unrest than anything.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 11, 2011, 10:38:30 PM
Kuyt or Johnson to score first 3-0. I'm hoping Suarez will start and we play the same formation. Maybe put him in instead of maxi

That's my prediction too Kopite. I also fancy Meireles to get one.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 11, 2011, 10:47:26 PM
Meireles looks to be a snip at 12 million. He's been a revelation under kenny. I think his previous best goal return in a season was 4 or five!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 11, 2011, 11:02:27 PM
I cancelled my Sky subscription a long time back too. The fees got out of hand.

I catch most games in the pub or at a mates. Ive also just been introduced to www.liveonlinefooty.com. Its a stream but if you have a decent internet connection its practically flawless. I hook my laptop to the tv. You get every Pool game as well as any other PL game, spanish league, pay per view boxing , ufc etc. Only 3 pounds a month which helps and you only have to sign up for two months at a time. It numbs the pain of refusing to get Sky.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 12, 2011, 05:28:02 PM
That's it as far as 4th goes. Extremly disappointing result and to some extent performance. Fair enough their goal should've been disallowed for off-side, but you gorra beat this bunch of crap at home even if you miss Kuijt, Agger, Meireles and Gerrard (referring to the last half hour of the game).

We make it too difficult for ourselves sometime. I think this pass'n move footy is being taken a step too far sometime. We're crap full stop.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 12, 2011, 06:05:40 PM
I'm not overly surprised by the result because after a good win away to Wolves our performance against Fulham was poor so I was afraid after the Chelsea game it wouldnt be as straight forward as we would have liked.

I think today reconfirms that although our first 11 isnt bad our squad is not top 4 quality. We have too many players that do alright when our top men are in the team but cant step up and make the difference when the top men are out.

We talked about Lucas earlier and how his performances have improved of late. Today for me he didnt play badly but again with Gerrard absent and Meireles going off he didnt step up and help to take control of the game when we needed to. You wont win anything with players that you cant rely on to perform week in week out and unless he can find that consistency I think he needs to be replaced or else used more sparingly as a squad player if we can bring in better players that can.

Jovanovic for me is a headless chicken. I'd prefer to see the likes of Pacheco coming on than seeing him becuase again hes not Liverpool quality. Skrtel is another. Too many mistakes for a top central defender and theres always that element of doubt that hes going to mess up or miss time a tackle. For me again not Liverpool quality.

Maxi another that tends not to offer enough without the big names. Aurelio is a back up at best. 

This isnt a rant or anything of the sorts. I think results like this will be a feature for the team every now and then until we can get better quality players in. I'm just disappointed that after a superb result at chelsea and taking the lead at Anfield that certain players cant raise thier games in the absence of key men.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 12, 2011, 06:06:15 PM
With spurs losing at the moment we've missed a chance to get a step closer to the pack. I don't think 4th is unachievable yet but its going to take one hell of a run to make it happen. And we're going to need everyone to stay fit because the other squad players aren't up to it
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 12, 2011, 06:08:39 PM
Well done Suarez by the way, easily our best player on the pitch. I think with Carroll beside him they could be a formiddable partnership.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 12, 2011, 07:46:29 PM
Several mitigating factors today. 1) Several players played midweek and were probably a bit knackered. 2) Wigan goal was offside. 3) Suarez hit post at 1-0 and later had another shot hit bar. 3) Lost Meireles to illness in 2nd half.

Plus no Gerrard or Agger. Can't win them all. If we'd drawn last week at Chelsea and won today people would still be saying we're in with a chance of 4th. It can still happen.

We'll get stronger when Carroll is fit and the defence will be better with Agger there.

We're only 10 pts behind City and we have to play them at Anfield. Have belief!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on February 12, 2011, 08:15:11 PM
I always seem to remember that Wigan are a pain to play anyways...sometimes you have games that you just don't win...i think its positive that at least we were all over them and unlucky not to beat them...rather than scraping a draw by playing negatively for example...
not a good result though...but hey one of those things...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 12, 2011, 08:50:25 PM
Let's also remember that the two teams (possibly three) we are chasing for fourth have been up there all season. We've had to come from a much lower base and will have to hit a better run of form (at least points wise) than they've been achieving all season.

All things considered, 5th or 6th and the UEFA Cup would be a terrific season and give a real platform to build on.

We've had to sell to buy for a while, whilst the teams that were comfortably below us when we previously finish in the top four each season, have been spending (in City's case especially) large sums of money. We are competing now with four financially strong teams where previously there were only three and Spurs always have enough cash to at least improve a player or two within their squad each season and have been building consistantly for a few years now.

The biggest thing that will come out of this season is not a trophy or a league position, but hope.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 12, 2011, 09:53:18 PM
Well said Tes.

Dublin in may though is suppose to be nice?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 12, 2011, 11:18:22 PM
excellent post, Tes.

re today's game.....a bad day at the office.  We should have gone on to win.  But we allowed Wigan back into the game.  Their goal had been coming.  It was a poor goal to concede....sloppy.  I thought we stood off their players too much at times.  Maybe the midweek internationals, and the travel involved, played a part in tired legs.  We also kept conceding poor freekicks around our 18 yard area.

a different day, and we'd have won 3-0.

suarez and mereless continue to look superb. 


Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 13, 2011, 12:20:18 AM
Meireles and Suarez are the great positives of the season so far. If carroll can bed in this season and theres a couple of real quality additions in the summer, then I think we'll have a top 4 team next season.

There's going to have to be people going out aswell.I Wouldn't be surprised if kyriakos maxi poulson jovanovic and konchesky all leave in the summer. These will all have to be replaced so I'm a expecting a very different squad photo next season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 13, 2011, 01:00:23 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/i7FCJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 13, 2011, 01:06:08 AM
(http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=198423.0;attach=205083;image)


Bandit surrenders
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 13, 2011, 03:31:39 PM
It's the same old "Liverpool disease" we've suffered from since 1990. It'll take something extraordinary to cure. Lifting the likes of Lucas to worldclass labes by the mere fact they play for Liverpool ain't gonna help us realise what's the problem.  We've seen this for quite a few years now, one weekend we score an incredible result against all odds, only to drop silly points the following weekend at home to relegation fodder.

The reason we'll miss out on 4th this season doesn't spell Roy alone, it spell accumulating a mediocre squad over the past 12 years. The reason we'll miss out on 4th isn't the ineptitude of Roy alone, it spells losing/drawing at home to Blackpool, Wolves and Wigan. These are sides that are so poor the quality of the manager doesn't come in to it, these are sides our allegedly strong squad should brush aside regardless of who's occupying the dugout.

Maxi - so lame, so weak, so what have you. A nice flich and pass here and there but I'd much rather we had Riise instead.  :o :o :o

Lucas - good at passing the ball sideways at the halfway line. Other than that he has no surge, no nothing that can see him break the pattern.

Aurelio - I think is a good player in bottom but features to regurarly to contribute.

Jovanovic - usually break the pattern with his irrational style of play. Yesterday he was dreadful. I think he's forgiven tho. One PL start since September and only a handful of substitions making up to half a game. Quite rich to ask of him to come in and change the game.

Ngog - don't know where to start. Winning a corner here and there seems to have some people claming he's good enough to be part of a side that challenge for 4th, instead of realising he'd probably don't hold down a spot regurarly for any other PL side. To think he was our 2nd striker for over 18 months.

I think Kenny got it wrong yesterday. He should've stayed with 3 centrebacks playing Johnson to the right and Aurelio to the left. That way we would've kept the continuity from the other games alive. Now we looked lost and disjointed for large periods of the game. I don't know, I don't see us challenge for 4th on this side of 2015. It'll take many years to repair the damages done by GH and Rafa.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 13, 2011, 03:57:36 PM
We haven't done too badly with a mediocre squad for 12 years. A European cup, a uefa cup and a couple of FA cups. Other clubs only dream of that.  I get what your saying about the squad now but as I've said before I think the rot has set in after we finished 2nd.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on February 13, 2011, 04:58:16 PM
We haven't done too badly with a mediocre squad for 12 years. A European cup, a uefa cup and a couple of FA cups. Other clubs only dream of that.  I get what your saying about the squad now but as I've said before I think the rot has set in after we finished 2nd.

Well said Kopite.  I don't think many other mediocre teams have achieved what we have over the last 12 years. 

We were'nt at the races yesterday, however, had Suarez's two efforts that hit the post and bar gone in...then we'd have been applauded for grinding out a result with a below par performance.   All in all, we're heading in the right direction and gaining valuable points.  Hopefully the summer transfer window will see us acquire some young talent ready for next season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 13, 2011, 06:16:14 PM
Martinmarx,

You're a really cheerful bloke aren't you? Football has always had surprises and it goes a lot further back that 1990!

I was at Anfield in Jan '81 when we lost at home to Leicester City. And our goal was an OG!! Here's the team that day:-

Clemence, Neal, Cohen, Thompson, R.Kennedy, Irwin, Heighway, Lee, Johnson, McDermott (Case 78), Souness

Presumably most of them were crap too according to you. OTOH, they could have had an off-day like we all do and were outplayed by a team who rose to the occasion. Leicester were applauded off the pitch by the Kop. I was there and did too.

I ignored your tirade yesterday but this one needed responding to. For a Liverpool fan you should know better and have a more positive attitude to the team and the club you support.  :'(
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 13, 2011, 07:12:23 PM
We didn't do badly in that year either ASI. May of that year was one of the 5 vintage ones!!!

I was disappointed yesterday like everyone but there's been a lot of positives recently so like you say we need to get behind the team. If we can have a real go at fourth place and pick up good results a long the way, whether we get there or not we'll be able to take plenty of good things into next season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 13, 2011, 08:01:13 PM
We didn't do badly in that year either ASI. May of that year was one of the 5 vintage ones!!!
Exactamundo Kopite. Too much can be read into one result. 13/15 points is champions form!

Quote
I was disappointed yesterday like everyone but there's been a lot of positives recently so like you say we need to get behind the team. If we can have a real go at fourth place and pick up good results a long the way, whether we get there or not we'll be able to take plenty of good things into next season.

So was I when Wigan's form surely meant 3pts was a given. But it's just a blip. How good this team is (with Carroll and Suarez) will be measured against the likes of Manure, City and Spurs when they come visiting. We may not get 9pts but you can bet your boots Kenny will get as much out of them as is humanly possible.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 13, 2011, 08:47:03 PM
If carroll can match the way Suarez has impressed the fans then the next few years are going to be very enjoyable. Suarez yesterday was really  lively and was so unlucky not to score.  The free kick especially. This guy is capable of scoring more than Torres because he's going to score penalties and free kicks aswell as from open play.

And how nice is is to see a forward fighting and enjoying wearing the shirt?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 13, 2011, 10:58:06 PM
Considering it was his first full game in England it was a brilliant performance. He's clearly got a lot of determination not to mention quite a bill of skill too. We need players with fire in their bellies. I'm sure Andy C will be equally determined to do well which bodes well for England too.

For the first time in many years we have owners who can afford to buy quality players. Shanks and Bob can rest easy. Their legacy is in good hands with Kenny and John Henry in charge.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 13, 2011, 11:01:59 PM
Martinmarx,

You're a really cheerful bloke aren't you? Football has always had surprises and it goes a lot further back that 1990!

I was at Anfield in Jan '81 when we lost at home to Leicester City. And our goal was an OG!! Here's the team that day:-

Clemence, Neal, Cohen, Thompson, R.Kennedy, Irwin, Heighway, Lee, Johnson, McDermott (Case 78), Souness

Presumably most of them were crap too according to you. OTOH, they could have had an off-day like we all do and were outplayed by a team who rose to the occasion. Leicester were applauded off the pitch by the Kop. I was there and did too.

I ignored your tirade yesterday but this one needed responding to. For a Liverpool fan you should know better and have a more positive attitude to the team and the club you support.  :'(

I didn't mean to upset you ASI. But surely you'd agree that team was also capable of beating relegation fodder when they had silver in sight? True, any team can have a day off - just ask Chelsea and ManU last weekend. Dropping points, however, at home to Wigan when we had a genuine chance of closing the gap on Chelsea and Tottenham just isn't acceptable and goes a long way to prove our squad really is mediocre. If we were up there and cruising I could've lived with the result as a one off, but this was more or less a cup-final FFS and we do not show up. Not good enough and why I say this sudden optimism on this forum and others is poorly founded.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 13, 2011, 11:08:45 PM
I think it's hard not to get a little optimistic after having owners like we had and the football we played under hodgson to now under kenny
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 13, 2011, 11:36:43 PM
I didn't mean to upset you ASI. But surely you'd agree that team was also capable of beating relegation fodder when they had silver in sight? True, any team can have a day off - just ask Chelsea and ManU last weekend. Dropping points, however, at home to Wigan when we had a genuine chance of closing the gap on Chelsea and Tottenham just isn't acceptable and goes a long way to prove our squad really is mediocre. If we were up there and cruising I could've lived with the result as a one off, but this was more or less a cup-final FFS and we do not show up. Not good enough and why I say this sudden optimism on this forum and others is poorly founded.

You haven't upset me Martin. But I wish you would be more balanced with your criticism. You slate Lucas but he played for Brazil midweek. That's the first team Brazil, not the reserves or the veterans or the girls team. So he's good enough for Brazil but you don't rate him. I don't understand your reasoning. He does a lot of things well so give him some credit. All players have off-days. Look at Rooney most of this season. Lucas has been miles better.

Regarding 'that team' were you referring to our team that lost at home to Leicester? If you were then Leicester were relegated that season. But the side that would win a third European Cup lost at home to a side who were relegated. Hmmm, perhaps Bob Paisley should have had a clear out?

There's no magic rule that says you don't drop points at home to lesser opponents. Football just doesn't work that way. But I would agree with you that several of those players who turned out yesterday probably won't be around next season. But Kenny had to field them and at the same time instill some confidence in them. Suarez, with a bit more luck would have netted one of his two chances and that would have been the game won. 3 or 4 inches to the left of the post or the same distance below the bar would have resulted in 2 goals.

So don't kill the players when we could have easily won the game. Wigan got lucky with their equaliser which was offside and had two big slices of luck with Suarez's shots.

Oh, and that 1980-81 season? We finished 5th 9pts behind the champions - Aston Villa. With the current rules we wouldn't even have qualified for that competition the following season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 14, 2011, 12:54:23 AM
I didn't mean to upset you ASI. But surely you'd agree that team was also capable of beating relegation fodder when they had silver in sight? True, any team can have a day off - just ask Chelsea and ManU last weekend. Dropping points, however, at home to Wigan when we had a genuine chance of closing the gap on Chelsea and Tottenham just isn't acceptable and goes a long way to prove our squad really is mediocre.

Martin, the problem is, that terms like "legend", "world class" and "mediocre" are thrown around these days like confetti.

perhaps one could conclude that Wolves squad is mediocre......perhaps west ham's squad is down there too.

but how in under goodness one could conclude that a squad containing the likes of Kuyt, Reina, Agger, Suarez, Carroll, Kelly, Gerrard, Moreless, etc, is mediocre, is well beyond my levels of understanding.

I know you were deeply unhappy with Rafa.  Two CL finals in 5 seasons, plus a runner up spot in the league, obviously did not content your ambitions.  I really have to wonder if your glass is 90 percent empty.   ;D

I enjoy your posts - but you really got to start enjoying things a tad more. 

Best,

El Dude
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 14, 2011, 12:57:42 AM
This guy (Suarez) is capable of scoring more than Torres because he's going to score penalties (and free kicks as well as from open play).

anyone informed Captain Marvel yet, re the penalty taking?

 :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on February 14, 2011, 04:19:14 AM
I have to admit it was fantastic to see a striker working his socks off for the team yesterday (saying nothing, but it does make one wonder what the hell was going on under Hodgson).

Can't wait for Carroll to get fit....The team is really crying out for a BIG physical presence....I know we were lacking a bit of sharpness & obviously the international friendlies didn't help but I still think Skrtel should have at least hit the target with his header in the 92nd minute. :(

(btw, Is Chris de Burgh a Red?  :o)

Shame to be missing both Stevie G & Agger.....

Disappointed with the result but (tbh, I think the hype around Dalglish was about to start becoming crazy, the reality is he's barely been in the job 5 minutes and is doing his best with what he's got and we have to be patient with our expectations).

Agree with the Dude, Meireles is on fire at the moment, (Needs to keep it up though!!....LOL  :D).
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on February 14, 2011, 05:16:30 AM
(btw, Is Chris de Burgh a Red?  :o)

I believe he is Ed.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 14, 2011, 03:18:00 PM
Martin, the problem is, that terms like "legend", "world class" and "mediocre" are thrown around these days like confetti.

perhaps one could conclude that Wolves squad is mediocre......perhaps west ham's squad is down there too.

but how in under goodness one could conclude that a squad containing the likes of Kuyt, Reina, Agger, Suarez, Carroll, Kelly, Gerrard, Moreless, etc, is mediocre, is well beyond my levels of understanding.

I know you were deeply unhappy with Rafa.  Two CL finals in 5 seasons, plus a runner up spot in the league, obviously did not content your ambitions.  I really have to wonder if your glass is 90 percent empty.   ;D

I enjoy your posts - but you really got to start enjoying things a tad more. 

Best,

El Dude

In response to both you and ASI. As I said the sign of a quality squad is, at least where I come from, ability to rise to the ocassion when it is expected. You see that's the most profound syndrom of the "Liverpool disease" - never be up for it when it matters, always upset expectations when it wasn't on the cards. I am the first to admit any team have their days off. Again, just take a look at both ManU and Chelsea last weekend (from their perspective it was a day off). Again, if we were up there, or if we had another 8-9 points to our current toll I could've lived with it. It's not the result in itself that makes me desillusioned, it's the timing and manner in which it happened. To me the Wigan game was really a cup final. Here we are, having a genuine possibility to close the gap on both Spurs and Chelsea with a two week break coming up before we face West Ham away (where we generally produce good results). What do we do? We plonk it big MF time!!! We were outplayed, not up for it, disjointed, what have you for large parts of the game. You NEVER see  any of the other top teams (bar Spurs) perform like that at home against relegation fodder. Why? Because their squads are so much better than ours it doesn't matter if they're "there" mentally. Their sheer class will be enough to secure the points against the Wigan's of this world.

I say again, the fact we failed massively, hugely, enormously to rise to the ocassion speaks volume as to how mediocre our squad really is. And by mediocre I mean anything below top 4. Might be too narrow a definition for your liking, but that's how I see it.

You say Lucas is good. True, when surrounded by Gerrard, Meireles and the always available Kuijt he can have his moments, or even games. Who wouldn't perform well under those circumstances? I know I wouldn't make a tit of myself 15 years ago. Take these three out and his nothing, which he showed pretty clearly against Wigan. He dind't step forward, he didn't offer leadership, he didn't do nothing to merit the praise people always heap on him for some quite spurious reason.

It's not a question of whether the glass if half full or empty. It's about being honest and realistic about things. The Wigan game was per firking se a cup final and we didn't show up.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 14, 2011, 04:00:31 PM
btw, Is Chris de Burgh a Red?  :o

is the pope a catholic?   :D

chris de burgh has always been a massive liverpool fan.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 14, 2011, 04:15:08 PM
I say again, the fact we failed massively, hugely, enormously to rise to the ocassion speaks volume as to how mediocre our squad really is. And by mediocre I mean anything below top 4.
no, we had our lads playing for their countries midweek, which meant them flying all across the world. 

thus, IMHO, that is why wigan were not being properly closed down at times.....that is why soft free-kicks were being conceded, that is why some legs look tired.

You NEVER see  any of the other top teams (bar Spurs) perform like that at home against relegation fodder. Why? Because their squads are so much better than ours

are you serious?  Have you not been watching chelsea implode this season?  United also had a very dodgy first few months as well, by their high standards.  Arsenal have had several poor results (look at the 4-4 draw last week at newcastle)


You say Lucas is good. True, when surrounded by Gerrard, Meireles and the always available Kuijt he can have his moments, or even games. Who wouldn't perform well under those circumstances? I know I wouldn't make a tit of myself 15 years ago. Take these three out and he's nothing

well, if I recall you didn't rate (in the past) lads like Kuyt either. 

I know, with my own eyes, that Lucas is a good player.  And he starts for Brazil - so his fellow countrymen must rate him highly as well.  Rafa Benitez always sings the lad's praises.  And King Kenny rates him highly - he came out last week and praised the lad's abilities. 

So who should I believe?  You or them?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on February 14, 2011, 04:59:03 PM


I know, with my own eyes, that Lucas is a good player.  And he starts for Brazil - so his fellow countrymen must rate him highly as well.  Rafa Benitez always sings the lad's praises.  And King Kenny rates him highly - he came out last week and praised the lad's abilities. 

AGREED, Personally, I don't think Lucas is quite the finished article yet!
BUT, he's being asked to do a job and he does it!

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/07/30/central-midfield-role/

As Perez once said (referred to in that article) of Makelele:
“We will not miss Makelele. His technique is average, he lacks the speed and skill to take the ball past opponents, and ninety percent of his distribution either goes backwards or sideways. He wasn’t a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres.”

As I see it Lucas is a work in progress, he's been around to all the grounds in England for two seasons now, adapting to this strange football we play, gaining experience and growing in confidence. A good example of this progress is the game at the Bridge the other week where he's getting in there and mixing it away from home against the champions.

One of the areas perhaps where he could do a little better is occasionally opt to take the ball forward himself and beat a player or two (means we're less predictable) and maybe get on the end of things in or outside the box more often. These are kind of extras that would make him the complete midfielder. At the moment though we have got attacking options so it is not as big a deal and if he keeps plugging away honing his play (improve his tackling, positioning, distribution even more) he has the potential to step up and be a very important player for us.

Surprisingly, imo, it is one of the things that he is often criticised for i.e. week in week out, home & away, consistently doing the simple things well..... that is the bread and butter of winning titles.

Give the lad a break!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 14, 2011, 05:49:28 PM
As I see it Lucas is a work in progress, he's been around to all the grounds in England for two seasons now, adapting to this strange football we play, gaining experience and growing in confidence. A good example of this progress is the game at the Bridge the other week where he's getting in there and mixing it away from home against the champions.

One of the areas perhaps where he could do a little better is occasionally opt to take the ball forward himself and beat a player or two (means we're less predictable)

Surprisingly, imo, it is one of the things that he is often criticised for i.e. week in week out, home & away, consistently doing the simple things well..... that is the bread and butter of winning titles.

Give the lad a break!

exactly, Ed.

btw good article, thanks for the link.  That quote tells you why Real Madrid's Chairman (Perez) would never be a decent football manager.   He didn't understand the game, or the necessary contributions to a team.

I cringe at some of the stuff I read from football fans on forums (I never could listen to the phone-in shows.....even the very sound of the voices, of those who phoned in, gave away their total ignorance).

Lucas has been asked to do a specific job.  And he is doing it well. 

I actually enjoy watching the team when Gerrard is not dominating the middle.  I see more people start to be able to grow in confidence and develop their own game.  Lucas is one of those lads. 

With time, and development, I have long since seen Lucas as being our Paul Scholes. 

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 14, 2011, 06:37:21 PM
In response to both you and ASI. As I said the sign of a quality squad is, at least where I come from, ability to rise to the ocassion when it is expected. You see that's the most profound syndrom of the "Liverpool disease" - never be up for it when it matters, always upset expectations when it wasn't on the cards.

Never rise to the occasion? Istanbul 2005 ring any bells? I'm speechless. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but your arguments hold no water at all.

Quote
Aurelio - I think is a good player in bottom but features to regurarly to contribute.
I've read this a few times and still can't work out what you're trying to say. Can you elaborate?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 15, 2011, 09:00:33 AM
are you serious?  Have you not been watching chelsea implode this season?  United also had a very dodgy first few months as well, by their high standards.  Arsenal have had several poor results (look at the 4-4 draw last week at newcastle)

There was this little word - home - I think it was. You obviously aren't listening to what I'm trying to say. I thought I said all along any team will have an ocassional day off. The top teams won't have it tho, against the Wigan's of this world in a game that really is a cup final. Please.


well, if I recall you didn't rate (in the past) lads like Kuyt either.

I find that offensive mate. I've always rated Kuijt as a senior player. I've always considered him an unsung hero. He almost never have a poor game, unfortunately Wigan last weekend was a very rare exception.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Gurdeep on February 15, 2011, 12:25:55 PM
If it we're not for the poor penalty kick by Dempey lastnight, Chelsea (A supposed top team) would have lost against lowly placed Fulham 1 nil.

So going by your statement above I guess Chelsea are not a top team and that lastnight they lost their cup final by dropping 2 points.

ps.  That Davis Luiz fella looks brilliant apart from one mistake at the end (giving away the penalty).  Kinda wishing we had sneaked in and bought him under the noses of Chelsea.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 15, 2011, 01:38:29 PM
There was this little word - home - I think it was. You obviously aren't listening to what I'm trying to say. I thought I said all along any team will have an ocassional day off. The top teams won't have it tho, against the Wigan's of this world in a game that really is a cup final. Please.


I find that offensive mate. I've always rated Kuijt as a senior player. I've always considered him an unsung hero. He almost never have a poor game, unfortunately Wigan last weekend was a very rare exception.

my apologies, Martin.  I thought it was you (re Kuyt).  Sorry.

I agree with you - in that, home form wins titles.  For example, look at United's away form - it is bad.  Based ontheir away form, they would strugglke to finish top 8.  But it is their home form that is enabling them to walk to the title.  Their 14 home games have resulted in 13 wins and a draw.  That type of form at home demolishes the competition in any season.

But beyond Man Utd, this season, all the other clubs have normal home form - i.e. they lose an occasional game and draw some matches.  This is par for the course.  And this is where we are at.  By your definition then, one team in the premiership is a top team (Man Utd), and the other 19 teams are mediocre.  That is an extremely polarised perspective.  Life isn't black and white.  You are not either a hero or a loser.......a top team or a mediocre one.

When you call our squad mediocre, you are always gonna get criticised.  We are far from mediocre.  We are rebuilding a top squad, making it even better. 

Of our last 5 premiership games, we have won 4 (including a great victory at Chelsea) and drawn 1.  That is reason to be cheerful.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on February 15, 2011, 06:47:28 PM
Tomkins is on a rant this week!

"Each week I lose count of the times people tell me that Lucas is shed, even after games in which he won all of his tackles and had a 90% pass completion rate, including passes in all directions."

http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/02/liverpool-twitter-and-rage/

He also mentions this piece:

"With Dalglish, the players, like the fans, know what they are about to receive and that's what put a smile on their faces. They were right all along but only now does anyone acknowledge their footballing understanding and accede that maybe it wasn't all about their blind, arrogant faith in a saviour. Hodgson's limited ideals may work in the lesser clubs, with lesser players, but at the better clubs, with the better players, they plainly fell short."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/the-last-word-hodgson-has-found-his-level-with-west-brom-2213246.html
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 15, 2011, 11:28:07 PM
my apologies, Martin.  I thought it was you (re Kuyt).  Sorry.

I agree with you - in that, home form wins titles.  For example, look at United's away form - it is bad.  Based ontheir away form, they would strugglke to finish top 8.  But it is their home form that is enabling them to walk to the title.  Their 14 home games have resulted in 13 wins and a draw.  That type of form at home demolishes the competition in any season.

But beyond Man Utd, this season, all the other clubs have normal home form - i.e. they lose an occasional game and draw some matches.  This is par for the course.  And this is where we are at.  By your definition then, one team in the premiership is a top team (Man Utd), and the other 19 teams are mediocre.  That is an extremely polarised perspective.  Life isn't black and white.  You are not either a hero or a loser.......a top team or a mediocre one.

When you call our squad mediocre, you are always gonna get criticised.  We are far from mediocre.  We are rebuilding a top squad, making it even better. 

Of our last 5 premiership games, we have won 4 (including a great victory at Chelsea) and drawn 1.  That is reason to be cheerful.

One final attempt. Yes, our form, if you chose to look at our last 5 games, is great, if not the best in the PL. That wasn't my point, however. Neither was it my point good teams doesn't lose the ocassional game at home. My point was that, with the possible exception of Spurs, you won't see either of ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal or City drop points if winning at home against Wigan is what stands between them and 1st or 4th.

If you read a few posts back you see I don't say at all anything less than 1st is mediocrity. I am just saying only a mediocre side drop points against Wigan at home given the  fact it had a  chance to claw back a couple of points in the struggle for 4th. Now, exit Gerrard, Agger and Meireles and we did nothing really (as a team) to claim the points. Is that good enough for you, mate?

One fine and beautiful day when we celebrate no 19 and reflect on the many years that passed between it and no. 18 we're gonna ask ourselves: "what were we thinking we could win the title with players like Lucas, Maxi, Skrtel ... (Continue to add the names of the more than 200 mediocre players that has come and gone for the past 12 years.)"

Can you now see my point?  I know my Swenglish sometimes makes it difficult for you lot but this is prolly the best I can do to put it the way I see it. I'm old enough to have seen us win it 8 times and nothing tells me we're even close to have a squad good enough to repeat that feat anytime soon. Hope I'm wrong, tho.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 16, 2011, 12:15:07 AM
You might have a point but judge the squad on September 1st next season. Kenny will turn this squad around. They'll be plenty of movement in and out in the summer. There's no doubt in my mind that the owners will want us right back up there challenging for trophies next season and spend what's necessary to do so
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 16, 2011, 10:53:52 PM
Has any one seen raheem sterling against Southend in the youth cup the other night? If you haven't google it. You'll like what u see. This lad is very special
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 16, 2011, 11:01:07 PM
Has any one seen raheem sterling against Southend in the youth cup the other night? If you haven't google it. You'll like what u see. This lad is very special
I saw his goals earlier this evening. Very impressive. Good enough for 1st team? Probably. Old enough? Not sure in an away game with potentially hostile crowd. But hey, if we're 2 or 3 nil up with 30 mins to go then send him on. Not sure I'd start with him.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 17, 2011, 12:11:23 AM
If he doesn't get on it will still be great experience for him and a huge boost for all the younger players as they will see there is a chance of recognition if they work hard.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 17, 2011, 12:34:32 AM
He's only been allowed to go because he's on half term from school!! I see bits of michael Owen in him quick feet with pace. If we can get a good result tomorrow he might feature some part in the home leg. But like you say it'll be a great experience for the lad
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 17, 2011, 10:12:00 PM
Sweet baby Jesus an'all, that was a borefest if there was ever one. I know some will say we wen't there to get a point and job done. Funny tho, I got the feeling we could've played for a month without scoring. I pity those fellow reds who travelled all the way and paid an incredible 145 quid to witness this misery. Looks like the fine form we showed was just temporary. Hammers will hammer us I reckon.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 17, 2011, 10:19:46 PM
Slightly different gameplan in a two-legged tie when there's no points to play for, but I thought we were rather negative and I'm not a fan of starting a game 0-0 when if the opposition score 1 you then need 2.

Martin, I don't think this game has any bearing on how we'll perform in Premier League game and I expect us to step it up next Thursday and prepare ourselves nicely for the Hammers.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 17, 2011, 10:55:09 PM
145 quid a ticket is ridiculous. With a hotel, flight, food and beer that's a very costly trip. Not the best performance to go and watch. Nobody really a had a good day. I don't want to be too critical of joe cole because he's coming back from an injury but he doesn't look anything like the player he use to be.

But on a positive it was good to see Wilson given a game and get a clean sheet.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 18, 2011, 12:10:37 AM
Horrific game but I suppose there are a couple of positives you can take from this tie. Clean sheet, cole and Wilson getting a run, the young lads travelling with the squad and the fact that Kenny gets another chance to see the players at his disposal.

It wouldnt be fair to single players out for criticism because there werent many good performances.

I do think though the squad still needs as many as 5 or 6 top players for us to even suggest we are good enough to put in some sort of challenge.

I'm not sure why Pacheco doesnt get a look in, I wonder if Kenny just doesnt fancy him. I'm begining to think he may go the same way of Le Tallec, Pongolle etc.

What players do you think Kenny may possibly let go in the summer? These arent necessarily players i want to see go but i think they are major candidates;

Skrtel, Soto, Maxi, Cole, Aurelio, Ngog, Poulsen, Konchesky, Jovanovic, Pacheco, Spearing, Aquilani. I'm sure theres probably more players with insecure futures but thats all that comes to mind for now.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 18, 2011, 12:22:09 AM
Not sure if Pacheco, spearing, or cole and skrtel will go but I expect the rest to. Its intriguing wondering what our team will look like at the start of next season
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on February 18, 2011, 06:39:35 AM
What players do you think Kenny may possibly let go in the summer? These arent necessarily players i want to see go but i think they are major candidates;

Skrtel, Soto, Maxi, Cole, Aurelio, Ngog, Poulsen, Konchesky, Jovanovic, Pacheco, Spearing, Aquilani. I'm sure theres probably more players with insecure futures but thats all that comes to mind for now.

I can't see Aquilani coming back now...and would not be surprised to see all of the above leave apart from Skrtel and Ngog....the rest are either old and past it or just not good enough...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 18, 2011, 09:21:56 AM
I dont necessarily think these players will go but I do feel Pacheco may ask to leave in the summer. The rest then will possibly be on Kennys undecided list, as in does Kenny consider them dead wood or if an offer came in would he find it hard to turn down. I'd say what concerns them about Cole is the number of games hes been fit for compared to the huge wages hes collecting.

It is definitely going to be very interesting to see what the team is for the start of next season, all change realistically. I think Kenny will attempt to bring in players that are comfortable on the ball and can play the pass and move game. I have a sneaky feeling they may go for Ryan shawcross in defence. After that as Kopite suggested it could be Adam and young. Im sure Comolli is lining up a number of French players also.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 18, 2011, 04:49:52 PM
Just seen Jose Enrique will cost £12 million. He's still got 16 months on his contract so that's very steep. If we can get him for between 6-8 million then that would be more realistic.

Possible team for the 11/12 season

Reina (hopefully)
Johnson
Agger
Carra
Enrique
Adam
Gerrard
Meireles
Young
Suarez
Carrol

Subs
Kelly
Kuyt
Gervinho
Cahill
Cole
Marveaux
Gk: jones( probably leaving in the summer)

That's not a bad squad IF we were to pull them off. But the good thing in our favour is that most of the them, that could possibly come in, would only have 12 months on their contract this summer. It could cost the price of Torres to get them in but with jovanovic and aquillani money and a few others going out we could raise 20 plus million. With a net spend of 25 million it could be very possible. If you consider what the man city have spent to put their squad together it's minimal.

I definately think that teams capable of challenging for a top 4 place next year.with a few alterations in the summer of 2012, by the time the olympics come around we could have a team that's capable of challenging for the league!! Well that's what I dreamt last night anyway

Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 18, 2011, 05:23:00 PM
Forgot about Lucas in that squad. It wasn't intentional!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 18, 2011, 06:49:03 PM
Add Degen to the exit list as he's only out on loan. Likewise El Zahr.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 18, 2011, 10:26:05 PM
One final attempt. Yes, our form, if you chose to look at our last 5 games, is great, if not the best in the PL. That wasn't my point, however. Neither was it my point good teams doesn't lose the ocassional game at home. My point was that, with the possible exception of Spurs, you won't see either of ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal or City drop points if winning at home against Wigan is what stands between them and 1st or 4th.

If you read a few posts back you see I don't say at all anything less than 1st is mediocrity. I am just saying only a mediocre side drop points against Wigan at home given the  fact it had a  chance to claw back a couple of points in the struggle for 4th. Now, exit Gerrard, Agger and Meireles and we did nothing really (as a team) to claim the points. Is that good enough for you, mate?

One fine and beautiful day when we celebrate no 19 and reflect on the many years that passed between it and no. 18 we're gonna ask ourselves: "what were we thinking we could win the title with players like Lucas, Maxi, Skrtel ... (Continue to add the names of the more than 200 mediocre players that has come and gone for the past 12 years.)"

Can you now see my point?  I know my Swenglish sometimes makes it difficult for you lot but this is prolly the best I can do to put it the way I see it. I'm old enough to have seen us win it 8 times and nothing tells me we're even close to have a squad good enough to repeat that feat anytime soon. Hope I'm wrong, tho.

your english is fine, martin.

and your perspective is an interesting one.

I don't agree with it in the slightest, I have to add.

I have been around long enough to have seen all the great Liverpool teams (of the past 40 years).  And despite what some may like to think,  our dominant years were not all 9-0 victories against Spurs.  There were losses and many drawn games.  There were games where we failed to find a pattern.  There were seasons when we made bad starts and were mid-table.....until finally kicking into action, and going on a long run of unbeaten games in the second half of the season. 

Our present squad is a top squad.  It was enhanced in January.  And it will be further enhanced in the summer.

If you think our squad is mediocre merely because we cannot win home games against the likes of Wigan, and you think chelsea, man utd and arsenal always do win such games, then you are mistaken.  Chelsea have been miserable this season, after sacking Wilkins.  They couldn't, at times, win a game of ping-pong against an elephant.  Arsenal have had indifferent home form at times, these past 2 or 3 seasons, since moving to their new ground.

You need to get behind the team, rather than shouting them down.  Otherwise people will begin to think you are a plastic fan.  Remember those lyrics, "through the wind and the rain."  Well, the sun is starting to raise it's head once again.  You should have a smile on your face.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 18, 2011, 11:14:50 PM
Brilliant post, Dude. Very poetic in places.

One of the characteristics that we had and the Mancs have had since Ferguson's winning run began was that we could win or achieve the required result without necessarily playing well.

Also they've had seasons where they've started poorly just like we did, only then the mass media didn't write us out of the Championship race as we had a knack of coming good and stringing a run together that saw us finish top. We very rarely led from the front for the whole season.

We have much more cause for optimism going forward than we did on Jan 1st.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 18, 2011, 11:27:15 PM
Brilliant post, Dude. Very poetic in places.

One of the characteristics that we had and the Mancs have had since Ferguson's winning run began was that we could win or achieve the required result without necessarily playing well.

Also they've had seasons where they've started poorly just like we did, only then the mass media didn't write us out of the Championship race as we had a knack of coming good and stringing a run together that saw us finish top. We very rarely led from the front for the whole season.

We have much more cause for optimism going forward than we did on Jan 1st.

agreed, Tes.  We have great reason to be optimistic about the future.  e.g. I was amazed the other night, watching that young Jaseem lad score five.  And it was the way that he calmly slotted his shots into the corners of the net.   That sight alone, should wet the future taste-buds of any Liverpool fan.

And absolutely spot on re Man Utd. Their dominant era matches our own, in many ways.  Both sides, in their eras of dominance, would often get off to bad starts and then go on a long run of great results after Christmas.  It was just a matter of the side clicking - which would happen at some point.

And titles were won often by hard fought late 1-0 victories, with a scrambled goal off the rain-soaked laces, or a dodgy enough penalty.

Success (despite how weakly it might begin) breeds confidence.  And with confidence one then sees an occasional awesome performance - like the 9-0 against Spurs....or the 5-0 against Forest.  But those results are not the norm.

League titles are a marathon, not a sprint.  They are about hard graft, as opposed to one-off show-boating.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 19, 2011, 12:06:04 AM
Just seen Jose Enrique will cost £12 million. He's still got 16 months on his contract so that's very steep. If we can get him for between 6-8 million then that would be more realistic.

Possible team for the 11/12 season

Reina (hopefully)
Johnson
Agger
Carra
Enrique
Adam
Gerrard
Meireles
Young
Suarez
Carrol

Subs
Kelly
Kuyt
Gervinho
Cahill
Cole
Marveaux
Gk: jones( probably leaving in the summer)

That's not a bad squad IF we were to pull them off. But the good thing in our favour is that most of the them, that could possibly come in, would only have 12 months on their contract this summer. It could cost the price of Torres to get them in but with jovanovic and aquillani money and a few others going out we could raise 20 plus million. With a net spend of 25 million it could be very possible. If you consider what the man city have spent to put their squad together it's minimal.

I definately think that teams capable of challenging for a top 4 place next year.with a few alterations in the summer of 2012, by the time the olympics come around we could have a team that's capable of challenging for the league!! Well that's what I dreamt last night anyway

An optimistic team but also realistic. The sqaud would look alot stronger than what we have at the moment. With reagrd your starting 11 I dont think Johnson has much chance of getting that right back position if Kelly keeps holding his own.

I also agree that we are definitely capable of challenging for at least 4th next year. After the disastrous season we've had to be only 6 points behind Chelsea is testament to Kenny and god knows how much higher we'd be in the league had he been given the job in the summer.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 19, 2011, 12:33:35 AM
Dude all very valid points and i very much agree that the future is bright.

For the first time in a long while we have owners who seem to actually care more about the success of the club on the pitch than the value of it off it. We have a manager who is not only tactically astute, wants to play attractive football , has the personality of a winner and who loves the club like a fan. Its impossible not to be optimistic.

I wouldnt agree with with you on the squad. On paper we look fine but when it comes down to it this squad relies on 5 or 6 players. After that many of the others are average players making up the numbers. We dont need super stars but we do need players who can replace Reina, Kelly, Gerrard, Meireles and do an equally good job and unfortunately I dont think we have a squad of players who can do that job. But although we may not have them now 6 - 18 months down the line this team is going to be very different from the one we saw last night and for that reason alone I think we have huge cause for optimism.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 19, 2011, 10:20:20 AM
your english is fine, martin.

and your perspective is an interesting one.

I don't agree with it in the slightest, I have to add.

I have been around long enough to have seen all the great Liverpool teams (of the past 40 years).  And despite what some may like to think,  our dominant years were not all 9-0 victories against Spurs.  There were losses and many drawn games.  There were games where we failed to find a pattern.  There were seasons when we made bad starts and were mid-table.....until finally kicking into action, and going on a long run of unbeaten games in the second half of the season.
 

Is true, I remember a season in the early 80's, I think it was, hwhere we were like 14 points behind by Christmas. But I also remember thinking that wasn't too steep a mountain to climb, and if memory serves me correctly, it turned out it wasn't. THAT, my friend, is the difference I'm trying to put focus on here. Then we had the capacity, the ability, to go on long winning streaks, whereas today we can't. Back then we had a collective notion what it means to play in a red shirt, a will to work your socks off for the next lad. Back then, as far as I remember, we had pride. All of that got lost in the 90's and the 00's.


Our present squad is a top squad.  It was enhanced in January.  And it will be further enhanced in the summer.

We will continue to disagree on this until there's empirical evidence to support this claim as far as my opinion goes. There's nothing, in my opinion, to base that claim on. It doesn't mean I don't support the team, because I do. It means I'm honest enough to admit where and what we are, i.e., anything but a top team with a top squad.

If you think our squad is mediocre merely because we cannot win home games against the likes of Wigan, and you think chelsea, man utd and arsenal always do win such games, then you are mistaken.  Chelsea have been miserable this season, after sacking Wilkins.  They couldn't, at times, win a game of ping-pong against an elephant.  Arsenal have had indifferent home form at times, these past 2 or 3 seasons, since moving to their new ground.

Again, I can't help but feel we're talking past each other. I said time and again above all those team lose the ocassional game. My point is when 1st or 4th is in the pot and they face a team of Wigan's quality at home you will not see them drop points. That, I think, we should take seriously as an indicator we've fallen behind. Mind you this has been the case for a couple of seasons now. People like to point out those marvellous 4 months during the spring of 2009 where we beat pretty much any opposition in front of us. What they do forget tho, is ManU gave us at least 3 chances to run away with it during the autumn only to see us draw at home to West Ham and Fulham and away to Hull. In my honest opinion there is no evidence we have the players to scruff it by the neck when it's needed. We don't have a squad we can rely on against "lesser opposition". If we really were a top team you wouldn't see newly promoted sides or relegation fodder come to Anfield and play us like we were their equals.

You need to get behind the team, rather than shouting them down.  Otherwise people will begin to think you are a plastic fan.  Remember those lyrics, "through the wind and the rain."  Well, the sun is starting to raise it's head once again.  You should have a smile on your face.

I never understood this. Why is it you conclude I'm not behind the team just because I chose to have a critical and nuanced view on the team and the squad. I could just as easily say I'm probably more behind the team than most other as I don't blindly see us as a top team just because our club name is spelled Liverpool. I can only say this season and last has hurt me physically. It hurts so much to see us humiliated time and again, to not be taken seriously. Just because I can see the likes of Skrtel, Kyrgiakos, Carragher, Maxi, Lucas, Aurelio, Ngog and what have you doesn't belong in a top team doesn't mean I love the club any less than you.

I think Kenny will get it right, but I also think it will take quite some time. Rant over.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 21, 2011, 05:36:23 PM
Is true, I remember a season in the early 80's, I think it was, hwhere we were like 14 points behind by Christmas. But I also remember thinking that wasn't too steep a mountain to climb, and if memory serves me correctly, it turned out it wasn't. THAT, my friend, is the difference I'm trying to put focus on here. Then we had the capacity, the ability, to go on long winning streaks, whereas today we can't. Back then we had a collective notion what it means to play in a red shirt, a will to work your socks off for the next lad. Back then, as far as I remember, we had pride. All of that got lost in the 90's and the 00's.

I pretty much agree, Martin.  The word that you are looking for is consistency.

The great sides had the ability, once they clicked, to be consistent.  We had it back then.  United have it under Ferguson.

You talk about working your socks off, back then.  Yes, we were all socialists back then.....a sea of red, everyone working for the team.  No-one above anyone else.  As Bill Shankly famously said: "The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life."

Sadly, in the modern era of endless media hype/analysis and vast rewards......we no longer have a team of socialist endeavour.  Indeed, if you had been around longer, and saw my posts in here (and in other forums) over the years, you'd be well aware of my view on this issue.  I see (sadly) vast accolades being given to supposed stars (like Gerrard and Torres).....much to the detriment of the team/club.   I have no time for ego, hogging of the ball, or laziness. 


We will continue to disagree on this until there's empirical evidence to support this claim as far as my opinion goes. There's nothing, in my opinion, to base that claim on. It doesn't mean I don't support the team, because I do. It means I'm honest enough to admit where and what we are, i.e., anything but a top team with a top squad.

but Martin, you talk of empirical evidence, in a game where you are not in control of all the variables.   We could go out and spend 75 million this summer on three outstanding players - only to find Man Utd and Chelsea have gone out and spent 200 million each, on 5 or 6 top players.   Plus the ball is round, and injuries come along.  These are issues that you cannot control.  You can prepare for success, but you can never guarantee it.  It is a game of numerous variables (many of them outside your control).  It is a game of passion and belief.

Look at Chelsea.  They spent another huge chunk of money in January - and they might well not qualify for next season's Champions League.

BTW I think their 50 million spend on Torres was madness.  Liverpool got by far the best of that deal.  I suspect the lad's best days are behind him.   He is physically, nor mentally, at the races.



Again, I can't help but feel we're talking past each other. I said time and again above all those team lose the ocassional game. My point is when 1st or 4th is in the pot and they face a team of Wigan's quality at home you will not see them drop points.

look at Chelsea this past weekend.  Under your hypothesis, Chelsea would be highly motivated to take perhaps their best chance of a trophy this season, against a struggling Everton side, who are only 3 points above the relegation zone.  It's a home game for the Londoners.  Chelsea just need to turn up and they will win.  Right?


I never understood this. Why is it you conclude I'm not behind the team just because I chose to have a critical and nuanced view on the team and the squad. I could just as easily say I'm probably more behind the team than most other as I don't blindly see us as a top team

the problem is this - I NEVER see you content.

It's one thing being critical of elements of the team, or players.  Look at my much recorded view of Gerrard and Torres.  But you need to be positive once in a while. 

I recall one of my colleagues at work.  And feck, he would find problems or negatives in everything.  Endless negativity. If he found glorious gardens and waterfalls in heaven, he'd be complaining about the cost of maintaining them. 

BTW I often told him that.

We can all analyse things til the cows come home.  But overall one has to be positive about things.  Otherwise what is the point of getting out of bed in the morning. 

BTW a Panamanian friend found me a Liverpool shirt on Saturday (8 dollars new).  He brought it from 200 miles away, just for me.  And I am as happy as a pig in sh.it pretty happy.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 21, 2011, 05:48:00 PM
Dude all very valid points and i very much agree that the future is bright.

For the first time in a long while we have owners who seem to actually care more about the success of the club on the pitch than the value of it off it. We have a manager who is not only tactically astute, wants to play attractive football , has the personality of a winner and who loves the club like a fan. Its impossible not to be optimistic.

I wouldnt agree with with you on the squad. On paper we look fine but when it comes down to it this squad relies on 5 or 6 players. After that many of the others are average players making up the numbers. We dont need super stars but we do need players who can replace Reina, Kelly, Gerrard, Meireles and do an equally good job and unfortunately I dont think we have a squad of players who can do that job. But although we may not have them now 6 - 18 months down the line this team is going to be very different from the one we saw last night and for that reason alone I think we have huge cause for optimism.

I think we are very close, Juan.

OK lads like Pouslen and Konchesky would never be good enough, in my book.

But look at lads like Mereless and Kelly.  Would you have put them in your key player list, say 6 weeks ago?  And yet look how good they look now, under a different manager/system/role.   ASI spotted Kelly at the start of the season.  And our AnfieldRoad scout was spot-on.  When I finally had a good chance to look at him, I started to see what ASI was talking about.

Agger is another lad who would always be in my team - when fit.  Superb player.

Yes, we need to strengthen our defence, and maybe bring in a natural wide player.  But we are not far away.

The great thing us now, that rather than having to poke around in the cheap sales, we are finally in a position to bring in top class lads.  That will make a helluva difference.

And I have to give thanks to Rafa, for the systems he put in place, that are starting to throw up top class young talent.


Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 21, 2011, 09:05:33 PM
Kenny himself gave rafa a lot of praise for what he did at the academy. It's great to see lads coming through the system. It's also great to see kenny give the likes of coady and sterling a chance to mingle with the first team because they've been playing so well for the u 18's. After given the chance to go to Prague last week, on Saturday they both were outstanding back in with their age group. Coady scored a belter. I think the experience for them can't be underestimated
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 21, 2011, 10:12:49 PM
Michael Owen was 17.5 when he scored his first senior goal for LFC. Robbie Fowler was 18. I think there's a reasonable chance young Sterling will make his debut in the first team before his 17th birthday on 8 December 2011.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 22, 2011, 12:24:09 AM
I've heard plenty of people saying there really could be 4 or 5 lads in the under 18's that could make the first team. We havent heard that for a while.it's great news
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on February 22, 2011, 07:15:48 PM

We can all analyse things til the cows come home.  But overall one has to be positive about things.  Otherwise what is the point of getting out of bed in the morning. 


Exactly...rome wasn't built in a day and all that but if you compare us to what we were like back in early october there is a vast difference in outlook and prospects...

No Yankee swindlers, no Roy and no player bemoaning his lot whilst collecting 120 k a week...
Replaced with 2 players who look hungry (well Suarez anyways and i have to be optimistic about Carroll), smart owners willing to slap down the cash if needed and Kenny at the helm who knows what he's doing...

that remark from Dude about consistency says it all about Manure in the last 2/3 years when you look at their midfield and are amazed that they still get a spawny winner in the last 5 minutes of extra time...Kenny has that same mentality of winning...Roy...didn't...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 22, 2011, 07:41:24 PM
agreed, barticus, we have much to be positive about.  The toxic duo are gone.  That piece of news alone should be enough for any red fan to raise a pint of beer in triumph (or vauxhall).  Hicks and Gillett were within an inch of killing Liverpool FC.

yes, consistency is the key to ongoing success.  Fergie treats his lads like school-kids.  he is the headmaster and woe betide any of them, if they turn in a bad performance....or go against what he instructed.

BTW how is Spain these days?  Warm or cold?  Any word of the Spanish rising up?  (ala Libya, Egypt, etc)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 22, 2011, 08:34:27 PM
It's not just the 'now' we have to rejoice in but the fact we have a stable, solid base to build on going forward.
This is the best it's been since before David Moores ascended to his 'throne'.

Kenny brings with him two things which should see our future built upon. Firstly, the owners will be getting the best possible close up demonstration of the complete 'Liverpool Way' and I'd imagine that this whole ethos will be adopted as our off field 'philosphy' and way of working. Secondly, by re-introducing the style of football he has, and will surely build on it, again the owners will have seen the type of football the fans respond to, and again, I'd imagine that this will be adopted as the 'onfield' philosphy and any managers that follow will have to be a fully paid up disciple.

Kenny's legacy will not be about any individual player brought to or through the club or any trophies he may win, but a restoration of the philosphy, both on and off the field, that our great club was built upon.   
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 22, 2011, 10:14:45 PM
Has anyone seen the picture of kenny and Andy Carroll at the boyzone concert in liverpool last night? It's not a wind up. They really did go. Just shows kenny will go the extra mile to help players bed in. I don't think i'd go that far!! What a man. If any ones going to get the best out of Carroll the king will
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 22, 2011, 10:55:27 PM
Way above and beyond the call of duty.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 23, 2011, 12:46:01 AM
It's not just the 'now' we have to rejoice in but the fact we have a stable, solid base to build on going forward.
This is the best it's been since before David Moores ascended to his 'throne'.

Kenny brings with him two things which should see our future built upon. Firstly, the owners will be getting the best possible close up demonstration of the complete 'Liverpool Way' and I'd imagine that this whole ethos will be adopted as our off field 'philosphy' and way of working. Secondly, by re-introducing the style of football he has, and will surely build on it, again the owners will have seen the type of football the fans respond to, and again, I'd imagine that this will be adopted as the 'onfield' philosphy and any managers that follow will have to be a fully paid up disciple.

Kenny's legacy will not be about any individual player brought to or through the club or any trophies he may win, but a restoration of the philosphy, both on and off the field, that our great club was built upon.

good post, Tes.

I was unsure about Kenny coming back.  But wow, has he been a breath of fresh air.

It is obvious that for Kenny, this is not any old job...this is not a celtic or a newcastle.  This is LIVERPOOL.  This is his passion, his reason for being.

And like you say, he is (by words and action) showing the owners, and younger fans, what the Liverpool way of doing things is all about.

It is just a pity that we had a few months of Roy.....otherwise, we may well be looking at playing CL football next season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 23, 2011, 12:47:38 AM
Has anyone seen the picture of kenny and Andy Carroll at the boyzone concert in liverpool last night? It's not a wind up. They really did go. Just shows kenny will go the extra mile to help players bed in. I don't think i'd go that far!! What a man. If any ones going to get the best out of Carroll the king will

I saw that, kopite.

BoyZone  FFS.     This is a man who will go the extra mile.   ;D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 23, 2011, 01:01:25 AM
The most worrying aspect is who's idea it was. If it was Kenny's, well, words just fail me. If it was Andy Carroll's, there goes his hardman image, and he'll never scare a Premier League centre half again.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on February 23, 2011, 06:39:00 AM
BTW how is Spain these days?  Warm or cold?  Any word of the Spanish rising up?  (ala Libya, Egypt, etc)

It's been glorious...boxing day was 26 C...rain falling monsoonlike but only at night only to provide crystal clear cerulean blue skies in the morning...as i gaze over the mountains of the sierra tejada and watch as the swallows and swifts return...in the distance the sounds of the goat herd as it ambles down to the sea...and the flute of the knife grinder haunts the streets as he calls for trade (legend has it that when he plays the winds will come)...
yeah its not bad..

as for uprisings they'll do it over things like cigs and beer as they're very protective over their 30 year old democracy...
on a geopolitical note the only thing i'm concerned about is the machinations of the elite and the games they play...uprising is fine but not if the purity of those feelings is then led down the controlled rebellion path and all that changes are faces...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on February 23, 2011, 01:37:09 PM
Has anyone seen the picture of kenny and Andy Carroll at the boyzone concert in liverpool last night? It's not a wind up. They really did go. Just shows kenny will go the extra mile to help players bed in. I don't think i'd go that far!! What a man. If any ones going to get the best out of Carroll the king will

it could be worse...at least it wasn't Westlife...or even worse 'A Nu Kidz on de Blok' 20 year reunion...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 23, 2011, 11:56:52 PM
.........or Bros.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on February 24, 2011, 01:21:46 PM
Was assuming the time for kick off of Liverpool vs Sparta Prague was as normal...like 8pm gmt or so....but just checked channel 5 and its 6 pm gmt and 7 pm in europe, just in case any of you lot had assumed..
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on February 24, 2011, 01:31:10 PM
.........or Bros.

Hmmm Andy Carroll and Bros....

*sings Bros* 'When will i get my pictures in the paperssssss? I can't answer, i can't answer that'....for me Andy Carroll appearing even more in the tabloid press is one thing i'd like to avoid...

p.s. oh and before any of you start accusing me of having the 'look in/smash hits' specials of the brothers Goss...those songs (and the lyrics) were firmly imprinted in my psyche by the incessant playing of said records by my younger sister...
though i will have to admit that matt goss was quite good in Hellboy 2 as the elf prince..
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 24, 2011, 04:00:36 PM
Your amongst friends on here barticus, theres no need to blame your little sister for your in depth knowledge of matt goss!!

With regards to Carroll and the tabloids. Liverpool is very similar to Newcastle. It can be a gold fish bowl. But kenny and stevie have plenty of experience of this and its up to them to steer him in the right direction. I think that's what kennys trying to do by helping him bed in by taking him to concerts. He's a young lad and is going to want to let his hair down now and again. so as long as he's told who he can and can't trust aswell as the right places to go, I hope he'll be ok

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 24, 2011, 04:22:47 PM
It's been glorious...boxing day was 26 C...rain falling monsoonlike but only at night only to provide crystal clear cerulean blue skies in the morning...as i gaze over the mountains of the sierra tejada and watch as the swallows and swifts return...in the distance the sounds of the goat herd as it ambles down to the sea...and the flute of the knife grinder haunts the streets as he calls for trade (legend has it that when he plays the winds will come)...
yeah its not bad..

as for uprisings they'll do it over things like cigs and beer as they're very protective over their 30 year old democracy...
on a geopolitical note the only thing i'm concerned about is the machinations of the elite and the games they play...uprising is fine but not if the purity of those feelings is then led down the controlled rebellion path and all that changes are faces...

sounds like great weather there, Barticus.  Same here.  Summer officially started (i.e. dry season) in mid December.  But we have had the odd very short shower every few days, which is not normal (climate change here too).  But I love it.  It keeps things green.   

Once you get used to having a great climate, I can never imagine going back to dreary grey cold depressing UK.

You paint a beautiful picture of flute sounds, swallows, goats ambling down to the sea.  We outta swap pictures sometime of our respective locations.

Re uprisings.  I think they will spread into southern europe.  Libya about to fall.  I suspect Greece could well see major problems.  The French are always ready to get heated up.  We do need major change.....change that is real, not merely different faces (as you say).  I hope it is peaceful.

well, off to buy lunch - in time to get back and watch the Liverpool game live.

If I want to, I can watch so much live football here....endless 24 hour if you wanted it.  As well as the usual premiership, scottish, italian, spanish games....and obviously CL and Europa Cup matches live.....we also have the CL equivalent in central/southern america.  They call it the Copa Libertadores.  It is massive.....like the CL in Europe.  Something like 8 groups of 4 teams.  The teams are the top teams from across central and south america.  All the games are shown live.  It's funny, they use the same theme music as is used across Europe, for the Champions League games (that operatic sounding theme).  Similar tv graphics too.

It's also funny - but there is also a Liverpool football team here (from Uruguay IIRC)....and an Arsenal (from Argentina IIRC)

And yes, my satellite company, that I subscribe to, is called Sky.  :)

I pay something like 30 dollars per month - and get just about everything.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on February 24, 2011, 08:05:49 PM
1-0 aggregate......we progress in Europe.

workmanlike, rigid, uninspiring performance.

we showed little imagination tonight. 

I thought ngog was very poor - as was joe cole.  They would not be in my starting line-up, if I had better players to call upon.

kelly looked good in the first half - some good crosses.

was a tad scared, that in those final five minutes, we did not take the ball to the corners and waste time.  It was end to end for the final minutes.  That was ill-advised.  We need leadership on the pitch.

I have a real soft spot for Kyrgiakos.  The lad never moans.  He will give everything for the cause.  He has no airs, graces or ego.  What a steal for 1.5 million. 

We are through.  But based on this two-legged performance, we will need to play a lot better, if we hope to go any further in Europe.  But like the Italians and Germans (in world cups), we don't need to play well to win it....only merely to do enough to get through each round. 

We live to fight another night.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 24, 2011, 08:27:44 PM
Kyriakos was close to man of the match for me. You can't beat a late winner at the kop end so kuyt gets it. For that and his work rate. His legs will drop off soon if he's not careful

Tickets now available for the final on the uefa website by the way
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 24, 2011, 08:29:22 PM
Pretty much agree with your view dude. I thought Cole did okay in 2nd half considering his lack of matches. Ngog was naughty to take that shot when Cole was better positioned. And again, near the end with a bit more fitness he would have buried that chance.

Soto is turning into a cult hero. Bit like Igor Biscan! I'd keep him for another season irrespective of who we get in the summer. His attitude is to be admired. That'll rub off on the youngsters.

Sparta were a bit industrial. Niggly fouls on Agger and Kelly were unneccesary. Hopefully they'll recover for Sunday. I fancy Carroll to get some time against WHU. 30 mins probably.

After watching the CL games in Europe and the fans being fenced in like animals what a contrast at Anfield with no fences, a vocal Kop and good away fans. Excellent advert for English stadiums and fan behaviour.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 24, 2011, 09:18:22 PM
4th place or win the Europa league?
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 24, 2011, 09:25:22 PM
4th might not get a champions league place next season. Theoretically if Chelsea or spurs finish 5th but were to win the champions league the place in next years competition would go to them
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 25, 2011, 08:30:05 PM
Look-in. That's a blast from the past.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 25, 2011, 08:37:40 PM
4th might not get a champions league place next season. Theoretically if Chelsea or spurs finish 5th but were to win the champions league the place in next years competition would go to them

If Arsenal win at the weekend, then I think one of the UEFA Cup spots goes to Birmingham. Not 100%, but that's definately the case with the FA Cup.

UEFA Cup. It's a trophy, it raises our profile once again in Europe and we're assured of European football. Additionally, at this point in our re-building do we really want players who want to play in the CL first and for LFC second?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 25, 2011, 10:32:02 PM
4th might not get a champions league place next season. Theoretically if Chelsea or spurs finish 5th but were to win the champions league the place in next years competition would go to them
Is that official Kopite? I knew us finishing 5th in 2006 set a precedent as holders who could not defend their trophy but I hadn't realised UEFA had made rule changes. Or is it down to the Premier League / FA who they nominate?
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 25, 2011, 11:11:22 PM
It's a maximum of 4 teams per country which was bought in after we won it and failed to qualify through the league. The winners now definately get the chance to defend it. So that could happen this year. although highly unlikely
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 25, 2011, 11:17:44 PM
It's a maximum of 4 teams per country which was bought in after we won it and failed to qualify through the league. The winners now definately get the chance to defend it. So that could happen this year. although highly unlikely
Thanks. My money's on Barcelona with Bayern or Arsenal  as possibles if they get through in the Nu Camp. I don't even want to think about the shower up the East Lancs Road winning it with that dreadful squad of theirs.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on February 27, 2011, 02:47:02 PM
This is turning into a horror show. 2-0 down with Kelly done his hamstring an Meireles with a crocked knee. What's happened to the pass and move football? This is like it was under Hodgson.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 27, 2011, 04:46:24 PM
Again. Outplayed, outclassed, outsmarted, outscored, outwilled, out-what-have-you against relegation fodder. Next weekend we'll get final proof how mediocre we really are when we'll beat ManU. We beat Chelsea away (against all odds) just to drop points at home against Wigan, today we were played off the pitch just to beat ManU next weekend. That's the trademark of an inept, incosistent and mediocre side like ourselves. You can say what you want but you won't see any of the top 6 teams get so outplayed and outclassed as we were today against opposition like this.

Fact of the matter is we're totally disjointed. There is nothing suggesting we're engaged in something called a team-sport. We're a bunch of individualists depending completely and solely on the impact of individuals. I don't care what you say but today (as is almost always the case) it was enough for the Hammers to WANT to win it. They won EVERY second ball, they won EVERY challenge when it mattered. It was the brilliance of Suarez that for a moment had us dreaming of a point until the inept, worthless and pathetic Skrtel had his say. Again, we NEVER looked like a TEAM that could get anything from this game. Why? Because we're a mediocre team who will finish again in a mediocre position, MIND YOU ALL it ain't Roy's fault. It's the horrible mismanagement of this club for years on end that has brought us into a position where we're being outplayed of Blackpool, Wigan, Fulham, West Ham, Wolves what have you. Why? Because they wanted it more than us. That's enough to get a point or three from Liverpool these days.

Player criticism:

Reina - Thought he was a tad slow on their first and third. It's hardly his fault this team can't cope tho.

Kelly - nothing bad nothing special. Was very sad to se him get badly injured. That's prolly the rest of the season on the sidelines for his part.

Carra - Hoof it Carra hoof it. I don't know, I know he's a legend as far as passion and will goes. Footywise he'd struggle to play Chamionship footy. Too many basic errors to be good enough to play for this club.

Skrtel - Is and has been a liability for most of this season. End of.

Wilson - Keeps it simple. Too simple?

Lucas - I don't know. He offers nothing. I don't think any of our CM's has been played as consistently as him. Yet he offers nothing, nothing, nothing. You got to ask more than that of a Liverpool CM.

Gerrard - worst game of the season? For everything he got right he made 10 errors.

Meirerles - Good but not good enough.

Kuijt - As against Sparta he started disastrous and got better.

Johnson - arguably our best player today.

Suarez - Struggled with the physical aspect of the game. Showed he's a class act tho and will get better as soon as the deadwood behind him is cleared out.

Cole - What can you say?

All in all I hope this is a wake up call. We are so mediocre it hurts. We have no cohesion, no consistency, no structure, no will, nothing. Yet people say I'm unfair when I say we're mediocre. Give me proof of the opposite, please.


It's not a case of "NEVER being content".

Rant over.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Redman on February 27, 2011, 05:45:45 PM
Again. Outplayed, outclassed, outsmarted, outscored, outwilled, out-what-have-you against relegation fodder.

Bitch Bitch Bitch Moan Moan Moan

Is that all you ever do? Yeah I'm disappointed with the result like everyone else but apart from the recent win at Chelski you've done nothing but criticise, why don't you write to the Liverpool board and tell them exactly where they are going wrong and how you'd fix it on a shoestring budget and the players you'd bring in to replace the mediocrity that you find throughout the squad with your own brand of fantasy football
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 27, 2011, 07:16:13 PM
Bitch Bitch Bitch Moan Moan Moan

Is that all you ever do? Yeah I'm disappointed with the result like everyone else but apart from the recent win at Chelski you've done nothing but criticise, why don't you write to the Liverpool board and tell them exactly where they are going wrong and how you'd fix it on a shoestring budget and the players you'd bring in to replace the mediocrity that you find throughout the squad with your own brand of fantasy football

So fed up with the anti-intellecutal "shoestring budget" argument. What then about Blackpool, Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves and West Ham? They prolly spent a 10th the last 5 years we did the last 2 months. Not that that prevented them from outplaying us. We've let this club been run by continental sci-fi wizards adopting an extremly instrumental perspective on footy for over a decade. True enough, it won us some success but at the sametime slowly drained us on the identity that saw us once claim to be the bestest side in English footy (it's just a matter of months, or weeks, rather til that's history). That's why we time and again turn up a side of 11 individuals totally unable to dig deep when the going gets tough, that's why it's time and again (for the past 3-4 years) been almost impossible to distinguish us from a relegatin side (provided we played one).

Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 27, 2011, 08:09:30 PM
We werent good but they'll be a few more performances like that before the end of the season. We bought a couple in in January but it'll take a lot more to get this squad up to where we think they should be. We just need to be patient. We only won a couple of away matches in 2010 and we've already one 2 this year. Kennys a king not a magician
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on February 27, 2011, 08:56:58 PM
Our unbeaten run was always going to end, as was our recent excellent record of goals conceded.

So now it's gone with a bang, we'll build again. Even if we get every aspect of the re-building process right first time, it's going to take time.

Martin, you're going to need to stock up on patience. Destruction is always a much, much quicker process than construction.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 28, 2011, 08:36:37 AM
Our unbeaten run was always going to end, as was our recent excellent record of goals conceded.

So now it's gone with a bang, we'll build again. Even if we get every aspect of the re-building process right first time, it's going to take time.

Martin, you're going to need to stock up on patience. Destruction is always a much, much quicker process than construction.

It's wearin thin, tes. It's not that we don't get the results, it's the way we go about things, or don't rather. Here we go - Blackpool x 2, Stoke, Wolves, Blackburn, Newcy, Wigan1-1 x2, narrow and somewhat lucky wins at home against Fulham and WBA, the list goes on.  None of these sides could beat us on quality, none. Yet they do, and quite frequently so. Why? Because they want it so God damn more than we do. I honestly don't think it's more complicated than that. We don't have the will or the ability to bring that will out when needed. The reasons for that is probably many. I'll list a couple below:

* The GH and Rafa years. Both managers firm believers in a perspective where scientific calculation and analysis will ultimately provide the winning equation. A highly instrumental perspective that runs anatema to the more collective approach adopted by Fergie. Over time, our squad has been unable to gel in a natural way leaving players confused and drained of confidence when asked to step forward.

*The players. As a result of having instrumental managers, it's no wonders our players have been short on character. True there's Gerrard, Carra and Kuijt. But other than that  most of our squad for most part of the 00's looked content with things no matter what. Heard this anecdot as a kid back in the early 80's Sir Bob had it, it wasn't diffcult to spot a good player. It was a matter of weeks. Finding out whether he had the social abilities and qualities, howeve, could take up to two years. More of that me thinks.

I don't know. But my feeling is we need to start all over. We need to throw away the idea we're a top side. We need to accept it'll be 4-7 years without European footy where, instead, we're building for the future. Or we can harp on like this falling behind little by little as the seasons goes past. I don't mind spending a few years in the midtable region as long as there's a clear and coherent plan, as long as you can see slow but steady improvement in accordance with that plan. This shine-a-light we tried for over a decade must come to an end that's all that really matters to me right now.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on February 28, 2011, 10:09:10 AM
First off respect goes out to Dean Richards, I was shocked to learn that he had passed away and as always when somebody like that dies young it puts results like yesterday into perspective for importance.

As for yesterdays game I agree with Tes, Kopite, Redman we are going to need patience. Martin I can understand your frustrations, I also understand that many of the players in our squad arent good enough but did we really expect that Kenny would be able to transform everything over night. For the rest of the season its going to be a case of small steps. We all probably got a bit carried away after the Chelsea result and 4th place didnt seem impossible. Any notions of CL football are surely gone. Kennys objective for the rest of the season is going to be finish as high as possible in the league and attempt to win the Europa Cup. Had we been offered a 6th place finish during Roys tenure we would have taken it in a second. Kenny is also going to use the next few months to confirm who is good enough to stay and who doesnt seem to maintain the consistency required to play for the club. 

Had we still been under Hodgsons reign or still owned by Hicks and Gillett results like yesterday would have been very hard to take but now there are too many positives on the horizon to stay downbeat. Any progression between now and the summer will be a bonus but  its only during the summer Id expect to see major changes taking place. The fact tht we signed Suarez and Carroll yet only spent 2 million net means the owners have yet to dig into their own pockets. And with many players most likely heading out of the club chances are Kenny could end up having 50, 60 even 70 million to transform the fortunes of the club. Despite yesterdays loss the future unquestionably looks very very bright.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on February 28, 2011, 11:17:32 AM
Agree to disagree then Juan. I hear what you say and I respect your opinion. I do not share your optimism as I find it to be rather unfounded and based on wishful thinking. I'm not saying that in a patronising manner, not at all. More out of jealousy to be honest. I wish I could spot anything that gives me reason to look forward with optimism.

I was a tad sad to read your finishing lines. Haven't this method of trying to buy success proved fatal in the last decade. We can't buy no. 19 mate, we're not that close. Not at all. We need an identity. We need player like Charle Adam, we need players with character and heart rather than high wage demands. We need player who truly hate to lose and especially so when in a red shirt. That's why I say we need to start over from scratch. We need a TEAM, not a group of individuals. We need to replace Stevie lad in a few years. Problem is, he can't be replaced. You won't find a player like him. That's why we need to do the basic homework and build a TEAM where they players rely on themselves just like the next bloke. THEN and only then should we look to buy big.

We agree in as much it'll be time tho. I say we won't make top4 on this side of 2015. Agree?
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 28, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
I think there's a chance we might see champions league football in 2013/14 season but can't really see us getting it before. But it's football and it's a funny old game. And we need to have faith in the owners. I don't reckon they are here to just make up the numbers. They're here to win things and that's got to be good for us all
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Redman on February 28, 2011, 05:05:29 PM
So fed up with the anti-intellecutal "shoestring budget" argument. What then about Blackpool, Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves and West Ham? They prolly spent a 10th the last 5 years we did the last 2 months. Not that that prevented them from outplaying us. We've let this club been run by continental sci-fi wizards adopting an extremly instrumental perspective on footy for over a decade. True enough, it won us some success but at the sametime slowly drained us on the identity that saw us once claim to be the bestest side in English footy (it's just a matter of months, or weeks, rather til that's history). That's why we time and again turn up a side of 11 individuals totally unable to dig deep when the going gets tough, that's why it's time and again (for the past 3-4 years) been almost impossible to distinguish us from a relegatin side (provided we played one).

What I don't understand is that it's the very same squad you sang their praises for when the beat Chelski 1-0 just a few weeks ago, you can't come back after a defeat and start screaming for every man and his dog to be sacked and saying how useless they all are.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on February 28, 2011, 05:32:58 PM
I agree with you there redman. The problem we've got is that we do have some quality just not enough of it in the squad. At the beginning of last year we played spurs and everyone was highlighting the lack of depth on our bench compared to spurs. Since then we've lost a couple of world class players. This season might not be our best but if Suarez and carrol can bed in it will set them up nicely ready for the next campaign.

Players I'd keep for next season:

Reina
Kelly
carra
Agger
Johnson
Meireles
Gerrard
Kuyt
Carrol
Suarez
Lucas
Shelvey
Cole

As far as I'm concerned the other 11/12 in the squad can go.

If we can get 5 quality players on top of the above ones and supplement that with the young lads then personally I don't think we'd be in bad shape. Don't get me wrong the rebuilding won't all happen this summer. But I'm certain come kick off next season we'll be a much better side
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on February 28, 2011, 10:44:32 PM
It might be easier to say who I would discard. I put it into 2 categories. 1:- has to go and 2:- should a decent offer come in, wouldn't be adverse to selling. (not including Aquilani and Insua, of which I am assuming both go.)

In the first category:-

Aurelio
Jovanovic
Kyrgiakos
Poulsen
Skrtel

In the second category:-

Johnson
Jones
Cole
Pacheco
Maxi
Kuyt
N'gog

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 01, 2011, 12:52:31 AM
I think there's a chance we might see champions league football in 2013/14 season but can't really see us getting it before.

Is that how long it takes to get Sky all connected up nowadays? I'm glad I cancelled it years ago if that's the case.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on March 01, 2011, 01:06:32 AM
Agree to disagree then Juan. I hear what you say and I respect your opinion. I do not share your optimism as I find it to be rather unfounded and based on wishful thinking. I'm not saying that in a patronising manner, not at all. More out of jealousy to be honest. I wish I could spot anything that gives me reason to look forward with optimism.

I was a tad sad to read your finishing lines. Haven't this method of trying to buy success proved fatal in the last decade. We can't buy no. 19 mate, we're not that close. Not at all. We need an identity. We need player like Charle Adam, we need players with character and heart rather than high wage demands. We need player who truly hate to lose and especially so when in a red shirt. That's why I say we need to start over from scratch. We need a TEAM, not a group of individuals. We need to replace Stevie lad in a few years. Problem is, he can't be replaced. You won't find a player like him. That's why we need to do the basic homework and build a TEAM where they players rely on themselves just like the next bloke. THEN and only then should we look to buy big.

We agree in as much it'll be time tho. I say we won't make top4 on this side of 2015. Agree?

2015 might not be far off but again I think it could be a little on the glass is half empty side of things. I'm looking at the situation from the glass is half full view so I think we will qualify for the Champions League before 2015. I think in Kennys first two months in charge there has been enough there to suggest that with 4 or 5 quality players the team will be able to go on the type of run that could help us achieve at least 4th.

I also think you confuse the end of my last post with reagrds to transfer spending or buying the league. I would never expect the owners to indulge in a Sheik or Roman style spending spree nor would I like them to. However I dont see the problem in spending 50-70 million if the cash is generated from a) an initial cash injection for transfers from the new owners b) selling players and c) from profits generated by the club. Thats alot different than the owners handing Kenny 70 million and telling him to buy the league. I believe as many as 10 or more players could go, that alone could generate in excess of 30 million.

But as you say it will take time and I really think the parnership of FSG and Kenny could be the combo that finally brings us sustained success.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 01, 2011, 12:54:12 PM
So fed up with the anti-intellecutal "shoestring budget" argument.
there has never been anything remotely intellectual about your arguments.


What then about Blackpool, Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves and West Ham? They prolly spent a 10th the last 5 years we did the last 2 months. Not that that prevented them from outplaying us.
so what about blackpool, wigan, wolves, blackburn and west ham?  how many league titles, fa cups, and european cups have they won?  Oh yeah, that's right, even if they were all added together, pretty much fr.ig all.

We've let this club been run by continental sci-fi wizards adopting an extremly instrumental perspective on footy for over a decade. True enough, it won us some success but at the sametime slowly drained us on the identity that saw us once claim to be the bestest side in English footy (it's just a matter of months, or weeks, rather til that's history).

sci-fi wizards?  what planet do you call home.

go and support Man Utd, City or Chelsea....and have all your plastic support and spending fetish needs met.

That's why we time and again turn up a side of 11 individuals totally unable to dig deep when the going gets tough, that's why it's time and again (for the past 3-4 years) been almost impossible to distinguish us from a relegatin side (provided we played one).

even blo.ody gaddafi and charlie sheen make more sense than you, martin.

the fact that absolutely no-one in here has ever remotely agreed with you, should alert your *intellectual* powers of reasoning. 

I am fed up making excuses for you; and trying to keep you onside. 

You are utterly depressing to read.  Indeed I keep thinking you are a troll - possibly a Man Utd fan, deliberately trying to cause annoyance in here.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on March 01, 2011, 02:14:54 PM
Just because my thoughts aren't kosher, doesn't mean they're not correct. I have the evidence to back up what I'm saying. GH had us play hoofball, Rafa never understood the importance of man management and togetherness hence we had nothing to show last spring while 4th was still in the pot. I can pick at least 15 games last season where you couldn't tell us from a bottom half side. Each club has a couple of those games, not as many as we do.

We have a squad, we have a line-up, but we don't have a TEAM. You can think of me whatever you want, I don't care. Fact of the matter is our record the past 18 months speaks for itself. I have no interest in deluding myself to think we're a topside when there's so little evidence to support such a stance.

Let the namecalling commence.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on March 01, 2011, 02:31:28 PM
sci-fi wizards?  what planet do you call home.

go and support Man Utd, City or Chelsea....and have all your plastic support and spending fetish needs met.
 
even blo.ody gaddafi and charlie sheen make more sense than you, martin.

ROFL, Hilarious Dude!

The West Ham result was very disappointing though not entirely unexpected!

FFS, this guy Wilson thrown in at the deep end......Jamie C could hardly focus on his own game having to keep fight fires that Wilson was creating (However, it's a bit scary how easily he was beaten by Cole for the Winner)

Gerrard wasn't at the races.....v. poor (does way more harm than good!)

Great to see Kelly bombing down the wing though and the new system also appears to suit Johnson!

It's funny Suarez needs time to adjust to the physicality of the Prem. (a smart player, with an eye for goal), but during this time defenders will be adjusting to him. Interesting to see who comes out on top!

Anyway, my impression from the game was that we have a team that loves to do the complicated flicks (Cole, Suarez, Meireles, Gerrard).....retaining possession and controlling the game away from home needs to be drilled in to them! GET THE BASICS RIGHT!!

Credit to West Ham, Avram Grant, & Scotty Parker.....They gave us a lesson in winning football games!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 01, 2011, 05:51:01 PM
ROFL, Hilarious Dude!

The West Ham result was very disappointing though not entirely unexpected!

FFS, this guy Wilson thrown in at the deep end......Jamie C could hardly focus on his own game having to keep fight fires that Wilson was creating (However, it's a bit scary how easily he was beaten by Cole for the Winner)

Gerrard wasn't at the races.....v. poor (does way more harm than good!)

Great to see Kelly bombing down the wing though and the new system also appears to suit Johnson!

It's funny Suarez needs time to adjust to the physicality of the Prem. (a smart player, with an eye for goal), but during this time defenders will be adjusting to him. Interesting to see who comes out on top!

Anyway, my impression from the game was that we have a team that loves to do the complicated flicks (Cole, Suarez, Meireles, Gerrard).....retaining possession and controlling the game away from home needs to be drilled in to them! GET THE BASICS RIGHT!!

Credit to West Ham, Avram Grant, & Scotty Parker.....They gave us a lesson in winning football games!

agreed, Ed.

One has to control matches (especially away from home).  And we need 2 or 3 senior players who will give that type of leadership on the pitch.  It's no surprise (to me) that after such a great run, conceding only one offside goal, that we get walked over when Gerrard returns.  West Ham bossed the middle.  World class, my ar.se.

And Cole was never a team player at west ham of chelsea....so why do we expect him to have changed, in his latter career years, at Liverpool.  Never a Liverpool level starting player.

Carra, as much as I love him, was past it 3 years ago.  Never a fast defender, he is now easily exposed.

We have plenty of top class players.....and the team will be augmented in the summer.  I am a massive fan of Reina and Kuyt (always my first names on the team sheet).  I love Moreless and Agger (when fit).  Skiless is a decent player (when in tandem with an intelligent partner).  Kelly can be a top player.  Suarez is top drawer.



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 01, 2011, 06:00:19 PM
Just because my thoughts aren't kosher, doesn't mean they're not correct. I have the evidence to back up what I'm saying. GH had us play hoofball, Rafa never understood the importance of man management and togetherness hence we had nothing to show last spring while 4th was still in the pot. I can pick at least 15 games last season where you couldn't tell us from a bottom half side. Each club has a couple of those games, not as many as we do.

We have a squad, we have a line-up, but we don't have a TEAM. You can think of me whatever you want, I don't care. Fact of the matter is our record the past 18 months speaks for itself. I have no interest in deluding myself to think we're a topside when there's so little evidence to support such a stance.

Let the namecalling commence.

YOU are the one who comes into a Liverpool forum and constantly berates the club, with terms like mediocre and relegation fodder.  You ALWAYS put us down.  You NEVER see anything positive.  Anyone objectively looking on, would possibly guess that you were manic depressive (assuming, that is, that you are indeed, a Liverpool FC fan).

You put Rafa down.  Let me tell you something.  Rafa was our finest boss since Bob Paisley  IMHO. 

Do you have absolutely ANYTHING positive to say?

Is the groundsman doing a decent job with the grass at Anfield?  Or perhaps he's using too much water and the water bill is too high?

Is the type of grass-seed to your liking, possibly?  What about the flags at the corner spots?  Maybe the white line markings are up to scratch?  Are the plastic seats comfy enough?   Maybe the fast food in the ground is half decent?  What about the beer?  Maybe the singing is fantastic, or the chants?

Is there any fri.gging thing you like at Anfield?



Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 01, 2011, 06:27:50 PM
Now you mention it the scouse pie is always far to dry and the bottles of carlsberg are far too gassy. We need dude on the new fan committee to get it sorted
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on March 01, 2011, 07:05:26 PM
Just because my thoughts aren't kosher, doesn't mean they're not correct. I have the evidence to back up what I'm saying. GH had us play hoofball, Rafa never understood the importance of man management and togetherness hence we had nothing to show last spring while 4th was still in the pot. I can pick at least 15 games last season where you couldn't tell us from a bottom half side. Each club has a couple of those games, not as many as we do.

We have a squad, we have a line-up, but we don't have a TEAM. You can think of me whatever you want, I don't care. Fact of the matter is our record the past 18 months speaks for itself. I have no interest in deluding myself to think we're a topside when there's so little evidence to support such a stance.

Let the namecalling commence.

Hi Martin, how are you keeping mate?

I do tend to agree with your sentiment there that for the last 10 years we have been more sci-fi analysis orientated than character orientated and team orientated. Individualistic skill has over taken team habits. Thus the reason why out of all the top clubs, we seem so ordinary, so often against ordinary clubs, because we have been built on individuals.

In the GH era we were built around Owen. Our basic strategy was a deep defensive line and long balls to heskey to knock down to Owen. That was our basic strategy under GH. Under Rafa it was based upon a system that he wanted to implement and that meant 2 defensive minded central midfielders, a lone striker and the 2 wide player supporting that lone striker. So yes for the past 10 years no doubt we have been built on a individualist basis.

So Martin when looking at that how can we undo 10 years of that in 1 year or 2 years? we need to rebuild again and start over and build a team, where the team comes first. With that comes good results like against chelsea and bad results like against west ham. Because whilst we find ourselves again we will have good times and bad times in trying to produce a team.

Where we differ Martin is that I really am optimistic for the future, I really think its bright. I do believe we have the right people at the club to turn us around and it will take time. Not 1 month, 2 months or 3 months. More like 1 year or 2 years to reach the level of 08/09 but when we do reach that level again, we will be better because we will be a team that has the mixture of team spirit and character with that tactical acumen needed.

You say Top 4 was there for the taking this season and the back end of last season. I respectfully disagree.

Firstly at the back end of last season we were spent, physically and emotionally and we were out of energy. We mathematically had opportunities which we did not take, but you have to look deeper than saying we weren't willing enough to take it. The team was finished and Rafa was finished so top 4 was always a losing battle.

This season was about survival off the pitch and regaining ourselves on it. I never once expected us to have a tilt at the top 4 this season as I didn't think our squad or manager was good enough. Whether you like it or not this season was about survival as a club off the pitch and re-emerging again after our 4 year war with the previous owners. To start a strategy for the future and begin the rebuilding process.

After 10 years of disappoint I do understand how you feel Martin as I felt the same up until January. But as I said in the thread I started, which I'd love to see your comments on Martin, I really do believe these are exciting times to support LFC.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 01, 2011, 10:50:40 PM
Guys why do you keep saying ten years of disappointment? Istanbul was one of greatest nights of my life. And possibly our greatest European cup apart from the first. Athens was a good laugh even though we lost.Cardiff 06 was a great day out, so was Cardiff 2001 for the league and FA cup. I didn't go to dortmund but everyone who did loved the trip. Your making it sound like we've been supporting Newcastle for the past decade. Wake up and get some realism into yourself

I sometimes think some of the older generation were so lucky to have seen the teams of the 70's and 80's, that ever since our teams get compared to them. Very unrealistic. Yes we would all love to see us dominate once more but given the global reach and finance that's now come in to the English game that's unlikely to happen again.

I'm actually starting to think Martin is purely trying to make everyone rise to his depressing bait
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 01, 2011, 11:08:23 PM
Now you mention it the scouse pie is always far to dry and the bottles of carlsberg are far too gassy. We need dude on the new fan committee to get it sorted

 (http://www.covershut.com/covers/Oh-No-It%27s-Selwyn-Froggitt-Series-1-Front-Cover-22175.jpg)
 
  :D
 
 i'd feel like selwyn froggitt - a country bloke, on some high faluting anfield committee (and hopelessly out of my depth re how dry or wet the wines are).
 
 now ask me about cornish pasties, fried bread, or sausage suppers, and I'd be in my element.
 
 
 
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 01, 2011, 11:12:22 PM
LOL.

Man u without vidic and possibly rio for sunday.So it could be o'shea and smalling Sunday! I'd luv it if carrol can get on the bench. 15 mins of him against them centre backs could be entertaining
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 01, 2011, 11:18:58 PM
Guys why do you keep saying ten years of disappointment? Istanbul was one of greatest nights of my life. And possibly our greatest European cup apart from the first. Athens was a good laugh even though we lost.Cardiff 06 was a great day out, so was Cardiff 2001 for the league and FA cup. I didn't go to dortmund but everyone who did loved the trip. Your making it sound like we've been supporting Newcastle for the past decade. Wake up and get some realism into yourself

I sometimes think some of the older generation were so lucky to have seen the teams of the 70's and 80's, that ever since our teams get compared to them. Very unrealistic. Yes we would all love to see us dominate once more but given the global reach and finance that's now come in to the English game that's unlikely to happen again.

I'm actually starting to think Martin is purely trying to make everyone rise to his depressing bait

I have reached a similar conclusion, kopite.

My suspicion is that he is a troll - possibly a United fan.

And his sci-fi mate, who has just joined the forum, after ten years of supposed disappointing times at Anfield, is another puppet in this game.

No-one (martin) could be so utterly manically depressively negative about the club and be normal. 

He needs to buy the Golden Gordon DVD of Ripping Yarns (Michael Palin) and see what support for your club really means.

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/images/clip/p006yfj6_640_360.jpg)



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 01, 2011, 11:25:20 PM
Two European Cup Finals in 3 seasons. The only thing noticable by it's absent is mediocrity.

We all know the lack of a league title or a sustained challenge of several seasons is disappointing, but I have a feeling that just down the road, 30 years after Taggart's departure, those fans will be feeling the same way some of us appear to now.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on March 02, 2011, 12:52:14 PM
Can't wait for sunday...no vidic, no rio 'white lines' ferdinand to be replaced by wes brown! I hope Carroll and Suarez play up front and we really go for the sods...Game on!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on March 02, 2011, 02:06:58 PM
I have reached a similar conclusion, kopite.

My suspicion is that he is a troll - possibly a United fan.

And his sci-fi mate, who has just joined the forum, after ten years of supposed disappointing times at Anfield, is another puppet in this game.

No-one (martin) could be so utterly manically depressively negative about the club and be normal. 

He needs to buy the Golden Gordon DVD of Ripping Yarns (Michael Palin) and see what support for your club really means.

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/images/clip/p006yfj6_640_360.jpg)

Your the puppet who kept drinking in the garbage GH and Rafa gave us - performance wise on the pitch. Whilst our european escapdes were fantastic and whilst Rafa gave me the greatest night of my life, by God, at least domestically our performances were not the way it should have been. Pass and move football is our DNA not frigging hoofball. Because we kept getting indivually great results it especially meant GH stood 2 years longer than he should and Rafa's time came to a natural end, so he didn't stay longer than he should.

Yes 10 years of dissapointment domestically, in the premier league, what Shankly called the Bread and Butter and what Paisley told his team after the 1981 european cup final after we finished 5th.

First is everything, second is nothing.........except the new breed who kept drinking the same frigging Kool-aid and believe the odd great result and top 4 is everything. The premier league is our bread and butter and its about time we made it so. So yes for the past 10 years except for 3 months in 2009, domestically it has been disappointing. Since the inception of the premier league, we've only in real terms, challenged for the title once - in 2009. Not good enough. Top 4 is great, but it should be the least of our expectations. Not our main expectation. After losing to Reading in 07/08 Rafa told was where he priority lay. GH never had the cajones to go for the title, instead playing safe hoof ball.

I am optimistic and excited by our future, so please don't lumber me in the same bracket.

Support means supporting the club through the good times and bad times and sticking with them no matter what. Which I do. It doesn't mean you have to drink the same, fornicating kool-aid shine-a-light that players and managers give you into believing something, that just isn't true.

Peace and Good Bye.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 02, 2011, 03:22:59 PM
 Theres a Simple reason for that IMHO. Our finances have dictated that we might have a good 11 but we haven't been able to have 20 quality players at the club like the mancs and Chelsea have done. So we might be able to do alright in a cup where our first XI are fit but a sustained challenge for the league just hasn't been possible. Moores was no rich arab and H&G, well we all know about them. Whether this changes in the next couple of years I don't know. Im hoping the financial fair play rules could help us but I'm convinced the likes of Chelsea and man city will find ways around them.

The history of a club isn't just down to how well they do in the league.open the match day programme next time you go to game and have a look inside at the clubs honours. Every one of them counts. Most teams in England would have loved to have that much success even in the last ten years.

On GH he seemed to get a pretty good reception at anfield this season for someone who did so badly!? Are 40000 redmen wrong? It went sour at the end of his reign but winning a uefa cup put us back in the European lime light aswell as transforming the professionalism of the club.

If the last ten years were bad how do you see the 90's?

Roy Evans played good football but what did we have to show for it? A league cup. Im not belittling that because like I've said they all count.

Just be careful what you wish for. We've won cups in the last decade but there's no guarantee we'll win anything in the next 10.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on March 02, 2011, 04:11:11 PM
Theres a Simple reason for that IMHO. Our finances have dictated that we might have a good 11 but we haven't been able to have 20 quality players at the club like the mancs and Chelsea have done. So we might be able to do alright in a cup where our first XI are fit but a sustained challenge for the league just hasn't been possible.

Yeah, that would reasonably be my take on it as well.....Shanks had the personality to build a club, not just a team. We profited for years on the foundations laid by him. So rather than focus solely on the manager and whether or not he's drinking Kool-aid, I feel that it is necessary to highlight the fact that the club itself i.e. the decision making and talent at all levels has a huge role to play!

My argument would be it takes a club to win the league....everyone working together week in week out for the whole season!

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 02, 2011, 08:31:57 PM
Your the puppet who kept drinking in the garbage GH and Rafa gave us - performance wise on the pitch. Whilst our european escapdes were fantastic and whilst Rafa gave me the greatest night of my life, by God, at least domestically our performances were not the way it should have been. Pass and move football is our DNA not frigging hoofball. Because we kept getting indivually great results it especially meant GH stood 2 years longer than he should and Rafa's time came to a natural end, so he didn't stay longer than he should.

Yes 10 years of dissapointment domestically, in the premier league, what Shankly called the Bread and Butter and what Paisley told his team after the 1981 european cup final after we finished 5th.

First is everything, second is nothing.........except the new breed who kept drinking the same frigging Kool-aid and believe the odd great result and top 4 is everything. The premier league is our bread and butter and its about time we made it so. So yes for the past 10 years except for 3 months in 2009, domestically it has been disappointing. Since the inception of the premier league, we've only in real terms, challenged for the title once - in 2009. Not good enough. Top 4 is great, but it should be the least of our expectations. Not our main expectation. After losing to Reading in 07/08 Rafa told was where he priority lay. GH never had the cajones to go for the title, instead playing safe hoof ball.

I am optimistic and excited by our future, so please don't lumber me in the same bracket.

Support means supporting the club through the good times and bad times and sticking with them no matter what. Which I do. It doesn't mean you have to drink the same, fornicating kool-aid shine-a-light that players and managers give you into believing something, that just isn't true.

Peace and Good Bye.

you use the *kool-aid* reference a few times above.   That is a commonly used American term (for the type of brand-named soda drink that Jim Jones poisoned his cult with in French Guyana).  The term is rarely known by non-americans.  Hence, are you American?  Nothing wrong with being American.  One can find a decent one, given enough time.  But I do like to know who I am debating the club with.

You talk about under performance.  Name me one other club that has finished these past 10 years, nearly always in the top 4, on a net annual budget of approx 17 million pounds.  Go on, try.  And two CL finals thrown in to boot.  And an FA Cup.  Go on.  Name one other premiership club.  You can't. 

It is not so much we under-performed (we didn't).  Instead, we have been overtaken because of others throwing hundreds of millions at the title.  How could any sane business-man compete with the madness at Chelsea and Man Utd (and now Man City)? Would you prefer we did a Leeds United?  Take on massive debts, on the hope that we could keep the financial house of cards afloat by having never-ending success.

Would you run your houehold that way?  Would your wife be happy to see you buy a massive mansion, and a new BMW each year, plus go on endless foreign holidays - all on ever mounting vast sums of debt?  Perhaps you could keep up the façade for a while.  Perhaps your job earnings might pay off the interest for a while.  But sooner or later that house of cards will come crashing down.  Your scheme would be one of madness. 

No, I much prefer sanity.  I prefer  to spend what I can afford.  I prefer to build a bastion of invincibility, not a sand-hill of plastic nothingness, that will blow away with the first breezes of autumn. 

We have got rid of two carpet-bagging, lying buggers.  We have essentially no debt.  We have a fantastic base now to build upon. 

We HAD a fantastic manager - who you bizarrely think played *hoof-ball*.  Goodness knows what you'd make of someone like Sam Allardyce.  Rafa was the best since Paisley  IMHO.  The very best managers (the elite) have the perfect balance between defence and attack.  Rafa was the king of that.  I loved watching his teams.   Take it from me, you will most likely never again see a week where we hammer both Man Utd and Real Madrid, 4-1, playing them both off the park.  Rafa did that.

I am very optimistic re the future.  Kenny has galavanised the club.  Who knows if he can take us to the required level.  But I think he has to be given the opportunity across the next year or two, to try.

Given the fact that Hicks and Gillett, and their mountain of debt, have been kicked out of the club......and given that we have turned our season around, and given the superb lads we bought in January, and given that Kenny has been awesome, how in under goodness can you - and Martin Sheen - be so bleeding negative?

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 03, 2011, 12:20:44 AM
Kool-aid? What charitable cause is that for?
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on March 03, 2011, 02:00:58 PM
you use the *kool-aid* reference a few times above.   That is a commonly used American term (for the type of brand-named soda drink that Jim Jones poisoned his cult with in French Guyana).  The term is rarely known by non-americans.  Hence, are you American?  Nothing wrong with being American.  One can find a decent one, given enough time.  But I do like to know who I am debating the club with.

You talk about under performance.  Name me one other club that has finished these past 10 years, nearly always in the top 4, on a net annual budget of approx 17 million pounds.  Go on, try.  And two CL finals thrown in to boot.  And an FA Cup.  Go on.  Name one other premiership club.  You can't. 

It is not so much we under-performed (we didn't).  Instead, we have been overtaken because of others throwing hundreds of millions at the title.  How could any sane business-man compete with the madness at Chelsea and Man Utd (and now Man City)? Would you prefer we did a Leeds United?  Take on massive debts, on the hope that we could keep the financial house of cards afloat by having never-ending success.

Would you run your houehold that way?  Would your wife be happy to see you buy a massive mansion, and a new BMW each year, plus go on endless foreign holidays - all on ever mounting vast sums of debt?  Perhaps you could keep up the façade for a while.  Perhaps your job earnings might pay off the interest for a while.  But sooner or later that house of cards will come crashing down.  Your scheme would be one of madness. 

No, I much prefer sanity.  I prefer  to spend what I can afford.  I prefer to build a bastion of invincibility, not a sand-hill of plastic nothingness, that will blow away with the first breezes of autumn. 

We have got rid of two carpet-bagging, lying buggers.  We have essentially no debt.  We have a fantastic base now to build upon. 

We HAD a fantastic manager - who you bizarrely think played *hoof-ball*.  Goodness knows what you'd make of someone like Sam Allardyce.  Rafa was the best since Paisley  IMHO.  The very best managers (the elite) have the perfect balance between defence and attack.  Rafa was the king of that.  I loved watching his teams.   Take it from me, you will most likely never again see a week where we hammer both Man Utd and Real Madrid, 4-1, playing them both off the park.  Rafa did that.

I am very optimistic re the future.  Kenny has galavanised the club.  Who knows if he can take us to the required level.  But I think he has to be given the opportunity across the next year or two, to try.

Given the fact that Hicks and Gillett, and their mountain of debt, have been kicked out of the club......and given that we have turned our season around, and given the superb lads we bought in January, and given that Kenny has been awesome, how in under goodness can you - and Martin Sheen - be so bleeding negative?

No I am not American! I was born in england, have always lived in england, but from Greek and Guyanese Descent! I find the Kool-Aid term particularly pertinent to what I was saying.

Name me another club, in the last 10 years, that has had the opportunities we've had to insert ourselves into a title race, only to blow it? I can only name one and that is Arsenal after 2005. I am talking about domestic performance not european performance, which I know has been amazing for us, but in this debate I am speaking about our domestic record.  You talk about net spend, but are you trying to tell me that Rafa's record in the transfer market is better than 50%? Because if you are, then sadly you are wrong. Rafa bought some great and good players, but also some shocking players too. I agree other clubs had better resources for transfer funds, but Rafa did spend. What was his record like in the domestic cups after 2006 btw? Exactly.

In the premier league in the last 10 years I honestly do believe we under-performed in certain situations. We could have been 10 points ahead of manure in March 2009, after they came back from the world title championships, but oh no we blew it against the likes of boro and particularly the 2 draws at home against Fulham and West Ham. The opportunity was there and we blew it. By the time Rafa realised this and allowed less grip on the players and just went for it, it was too late as we were playing catch up.

In 2007/8 season we were in the title hunt in the winter, and a win at Reading would have put us in a great position, but Rafa didn't prioritise that instead putting his effort into the CL. We lost to Reading and lost a great opportunity.

In 2006/7 at the start of the season we should have built from our first 2 seasons under Rafa and really go for the title. We had a better team than the Mancs and we were competing nicely with Chelsea, but again Rafa decided to not strengthen in certain areas and prioritised CL over the premier league. We had opportunities to gain ground in the title race, but by November we were out of it because Rafa wanted the CL.

So yes for me we did under perform. Certainly in 2006/7 2007/8 we under performed greatly and in 2008/9 we let a great position slip. So I don't buy your argument.

I prefer sanity and I prefer for us to be self sufficient as well. We are in a great position in that respect.

I said GH played Hoof-ball. Rafa at times played the long game too, it wasn't until the torres-gerrard partnership that we really changed our system. Rafa was not better than Fagan or Dalglish and I laugh at you utterly mentioning Rafa in the same sentence to Paisley. Paisley allowed his players to play and allowed his players to have the freedom to play football. Rafa did not. Fagan won the treble in his first year and Dalglish created our finest footballing team in history in terms of footballing performance in 87-88 so you are extremely wrong saying Rafa is our best manager since Paisley. He's our best manager since Dalglish.



Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 03, 2011, 06:50:56 PM
I think we should agree to disagree otherwise this will go on forever.

Rafa will bring a book out sooner or later where the true extent of the restraints he was working under in his final years will be revealed. I think then everyone will say 'he did a good job under the circumstances'.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 03, 2011, 08:57:15 PM
Name me another club, in the last 10 years, that has had the opportunities we've had to insert ourselves into a title race, only to blow it? I can only name one and that is Arsenal after 2005.

but we haven't had genuine opportunities to compete for the title because of the massive spending abilities of Chelsea and Man Utd.  Net annual spends that got up to 17 million per season will rarely (if ever) allow us to  compete with Chelsea and Utd (and now City).

one example - the year after schmeichel stood down, united went through 4 different keepers in 18 months.  Do you honestly believe that Liverpool could have afforded to bring in 4 keepers in such a short period of time. 

You talk about net spend, but are you trying to tell me that Rafa's record in the transfer market is better than 50%? Because if you are, then sadly you are wrong. Rafa bought some great and good players, but also some shocking players too.

I hate this commonly repeated mantra.  Do you think other managers have better success with new recruits?  Bringing in new lads is always gonna be a risk (like anything else in life).  Will they settle in the city; will they get injured, will they cope with the pace of the english game, will they pine for home, etc, etc.

Look at Everton.  As someone posted in the Guardian today - David Moyes record re buying new lads, is anything but stellar.  He has had more success in the bargain basement end of the market; and been rubbish whe he has had major money to spend.  For example, he spent money on poor signings like:

Kroldrop - £6 million
Beattie - £6 million
Yakubu - £13 million
Bily - £9-10 million
Fellaini - £15 million
Where do Everton and David Moyes go from here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/mar/02/everton-david-moyes-reading-defeat)
What was his record like in the domestic cups after 2006 btw? Exactly.

what is arsenal's record like in domestic cups since 2006?

or wigan's, or blackburn's (insert 16 cliubs here that are not utd or chelsea).

why do you use the same old mantra's to beat the club up with? 

go ahead and tell me how you;d have spent an annual 17 million net budget differently across the years.

who would you have wanted to have seen owning Liverpool FC.    Who would you have liked our manager to have been these past 10 years? 

It's very easy to criticise....far harder to do better yourself.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on March 04, 2011, 01:32:22 AM
Hmmm....I think this idea that a manager should come in and make all the right decisions and win the league is a very very shallow argument. It completely and utterly ignores the context....It's easy to throw names about like Shankly, Paisley or whoever and forget the length of time that they were given and how they built things up over years of hard work! You never hear anyone talk about the role that people like Geoff Twentyman played in our success....

I hate to say it, but Fergie once remarked of our 08/09 campaign that we overachieved.....I tend to agree, that team was close but not ready (both mentally, but also in terms of quality and depth), imo, to win the league. The fact that it fell apart so shortly afterwards (one player, Alonso!) is an obvious indictment of the brittle nature of the foundations. I'm not having a go at Benitez here, just trying to point out that winning the league requires time and strong foundations at all levels of the club. Alternatively, you can buy loads of £20 million players (Chelsea, Utd or City) to achieve or maintain success!
 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 04, 2011, 11:54:43 PM
Ed, I've said many times on here previously that we need to learn how to be challengers for the title before we can actually go on and win it.

I agree that we need to get back to making the league priority over every other competition, however and especially with the new financial rules coming into play, it's always going to be difficult not to prioritise the CL as that's where the main prize money revenue lies.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on March 05, 2011, 01:39:31 AM
Ed, I've said many times on here previously that we need to learn how to be challengers for the title before we can actually go on and win it.

Hey Tes, I wasn't having a go or anything just responding to Edward224's argument that Rafa should have just come in signed all the right players and won the league and because he didn't do this he's a useless manager?

Anyway, it would take forever to dissect the rights and wrongs of Rafa's reign with respect to our performance in the league. Given the constraints that he was working under, he appeared to be on track up to the sale of Alonso and then it all went a bit pear-shaped!

A good example of the old philosophy, imo, is the blooding of Kelly this season. Watching him bomb down the wing against the Hammers away from home was real progress (one of the big pluses this year!). It's that rhythm over and over week in week out..... fly down the wing get a cross in.... gradually the runs hit deeper & the crosses get better. Pretty soon he's a valuable cog in the machine...over to sports science, keep him rested and free of injury....scouting or the academy finds a player to fight for that position avoid any complacency and ensures continuity!

It's these structures and the talent at this level, imo, that need to be in place before any talk of a challenge for a title is credible!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 05, 2011, 08:19:59 PM
Hey Tes, I wasn't having a go or anything just responding to Edward224's argument that Rafa should have just come in signed all the right players and won the league and because he didn't do this he's a useless manager?

Ed, it didn't come across as having a go at Edward224's post. I was adding to the points you'd made. It's too easy for people to condemn managers for not achieving what we crave and like you said it's a bit more involved than just signing the right players. The Mancs, despite dominating in this country, took a very long time before Taggart had figured out how to succeed in Europe, likewise Rafa was much more familiar with what it took to succeed in Europe than in English domestic football.

Under Rafa I always suspected that there was a further reason we 'appeared' to prioritise the CL once the Toxics has their claws in us and that was the obvious financial appeal.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 02:28:30 PM
liverpool v manure
 half-time 2 - 0
 
 two goals for kuyt
 
 awesome dribble, in tight space, by suarez for the opener.....dribbled past three defenders and then dinked it between utd keeper's legs.
 
 second, bad mistake by nani.....heads it back into danger area, kuyt says thanks very much....simple header.
 
 the half ends with an agricultural tackle by carra, that has united all heated up.....and then they reply with a bad tackle of their own.  Good referring, only yellows in both cases.  But Utd trying as usual to bully the ref.
 
 overall - very fast tempo.  Ultra fast.
 
 berbatov hit a post.
 
 we are awful at crossing the ball.  Dear oh dear....embarrassing.  We seem to focus on going down the right and crossing it from that side.  We need to buy a decent crosser of the ball (and a decent corner kick taker, and a decent free kick taker).
 
 if we are to make good use of carroll, we need  someone who can cross a ball.
 
 excellent first half......I expect united to come back and score.  I hope we do not mess this up.
 
 (PS great pity arsenal did not win yesterday....but as usual the  fruit merchants mess up).
 
 
 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 02:35:08 PM
edit - make that 4 defenders that Suarez beat (there were two bad guys he took out at the start of the dribble, near the 18 year line)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 02:58:44 PM
3 - 0

hatrick for kuyt

great free-kick from suarez..........perhaps we have our new freekick taker!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 02:59:58 PM
kop in full song

3 nil up v manure.

doesn't get much better than this.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on March 06, 2011, 04:06:37 PM
Great result, great performance, great everything. Too bad we can't repeat the feat. I was very happy to see us today but throughout the game last weekend's decable was like a wet blanket over this game. If we could've mustered a 10th of the passion, movement and resilience we displayed today against Blackpool, Blackburn, Birmingham, West Ham, Wolves and Stoke we'd be in contention for more than 4th. Problem is, this has been the pattern for over a decade. In fact it's made us so predictable it was written all over after our defeat to West Ham we'd win today's game. In other words, lose/draw against relegation fodder just to play the reigning champions off the park a few days later. Until we get rid of this inconsistency we'll be a Europa League team, at best.

I don't mean to sound negative but it's hard to enjoy this victory knowing full we'll we're less than 50 % to beat Sunderland away in a fortnight making today's great result futile. I understand the locals may enjoy the bragging rights won, but in a long term perspective it's hard not to have a more realistic view on this. Arsenal doesn't seem strong enough to prevent ManU from winning no. 19, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 04:14:20 PM
oh FFS
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on March 06, 2011, 04:16:15 PM
Dude,

Wonderful display of football today. Credit to everyone.

MartinMarx, leopard, spots change. I'm seriously doubting you're a genuine Liverpool supporter.  >:(
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 04:19:57 PM
wonderful display of football, ASI.  I would love to have been at the game.

the tempo was amazing.....right from the off.  I was tired in the first half, just from watching the frantic pace.

Truth be told, we could have been 5 or 6 up by the end.

Kenny is putting together a fantastic offence.  Though to make the best use of Carroll (who I liked the look of), we need a player who can cross a ball.



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on March 06, 2011, 04:22:32 PM
Great win today and we could have won it by more. If Suarez plays like that every week we certainly wont be missing Torres much. Not only does he look a serious goal threat but he looks as if he will provide more goal scoring opportunities for other players than Torres ever did.

Martin I think you just have to savour wins like this and forget about last week becuase until we get more top class players in you are going to see great games like today but also the not so great ones like last week. Kenny cant change things over night but he sure is moving things in the right direction. As fans we just have to be patient and see the season out supporting the team. After that hopefully Kenny will get the long term deal he deserves and a decent level of investment in the team. Until then we will have to put up with the inconsistency.

Great to see Carroll finally make his debut. Good times are just around the corner!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on March 06, 2011, 04:24:51 PM
Dude,

Wonderful display of football today. Credit to everyone.

MartinMarx, leopard, spots change. I'm seriously doubting you're a genuine Liverpool supporter.  >:(

Why? I said it was a great result, a great performance a great everything. But I also happen to think all that greatness should be put into context. As I said, besides the bragging rights, what's the point in playing ManU off the park only to be played off the park ourselves against relegatin fodder inside a weak? I'm very happy we won, but it won't mean that much if we drop points at the Stadium of Lights after the break. I can't tell you how much it hurts to realise wins against Blackpool and West Hamj  would've seen us in contention for 4th.

Wolves up 1-0. :)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on March 06, 2011, 04:34:47 PM
Great win today and we could have won it by more. If Suarez plays like that every week we certainly wont be missing Torres much. Not only does he look a serious goal threat but he looks as if he will provide more goal scoring opportunities for other players than Torres ever did.

Martin I think you just have to savour wins like this and forget about last week becuase until we get more top class players in you are going to see great games like today but also the not so great ones like last week. Kenny cant change things over night but he sure is moving things in the right direction. As fans we just have to be patient and see the season out supporting the team. After that hopefully Kenny will get the long term deal he deserves and a decent level of investment in the team. Until then we will have to put up with the inconsistency.

Not too sure we need a total overhaul of the squad buying posh star players. Consistency is never a factor, it's the consequence of a teams quality and resilience. Today gave proof we have quality (even my Manc mate said it's ridiculous we're in 6th place playing like this). Resilience tho, is a totally different matter. For every game like today, we'll have to witness 10 where we look jaded and totally without any ideas. For the record, I'm starting to believe Kenny's the right man to instill that resilience. It'll take time tho. 3-4 years.

Also for the record, I'm as happy as the next red we made it more difficult for them to win no.19. But I'd wish nothing more than to see us repeat today's performance, resiliencewise, throughout the rest of this season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on March 06, 2011, 04:46:35 PM
wonderful display of football, ASI.  I would love to have been at the game.

Wait 'til Kopite gets here. To use a Top Gear phrase he'll be 'nursing a semi!'

Quote
the tempo was amazing.....right from the off.  I was tired in the first half, just from watching the frantic pace.
Me too. Just shows what confidence can do to players.

Quote
Truth be told, we could have been 5 or 6 up by the end.
With a bit better finishing from Gerrard agreed. But he's carrying an injury so I won't be too hard on him.

Quote
Kenny is putting together a fantastic offence.  Though to make the best use of Carroll (who I liked the look of), we need a player who can cross a ball.
I'm sure we'll be in the market in the summer for two. And with a few quid to spend from the owners it promises to be an interesting time.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 04:47:45 PM
Not too sure we need a total overhaul of the squad buying posh star players.

you have changed your tune.  You had been saying that we needed to start all over again from SCRATCH.

You claimed last week that:  "we need players with character and heart rather than high wage demands. We need player who truly hate to lose and especially so when in a red shirt. That's why I say we need to start over from scratch. We need a TEAM, not a group of individuals."


Today gave proof we have quality
but you have been going on for an eternity, claiming that the team is mediocre.

well which is it - mediocre or quality?  There is a bit of difference, you know.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 04:51:49 PM
Wait 'til Kopite gets here. To use a Top Gear phrase he'll be 'nursing a semi!'
Me too. Just shows what confidence can do to players.
With a bit better finishing from Gerrard agreed. But he's carrying an injury so I won't be too hard on him.
I'm sure we'll be in the market in the summer for two. And with a few quid to spend from the owners it promises to be an interesting time.

nursing a semi   :D :D

adams would be a great addition, I think.

who knows, rather than a natural winger, kenny may instead go for a top notch wing-back.

interesting to see if he prolongs his fascination (next season) with 3-5-2

defence needs strengthening, big-time.  Johnston is never gonna be up to it, IMHO

So annoying to see Kelly out for a month.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on March 06, 2011, 04:52:39 PM
Why? I said it was a great result, a great performance a great everything. But I also happen to think all that greatness should be put into context. As I said, besides the bragging rights, what's the point in playing ManU off the park only to be played off the park ourselves against relegatin fodder inside a weak? I'm very happy we won, but it won't mean that much if we drop points at the Stadium of Lights after the break. I can't tell you how much it hurts to realise wins against Blackpool and West Hamj  would've seen us in contention for 4th.

Wolves up 1-0. :)

MartinMarx,

Today isn't about 'buts'. It's about celebrating an extremely good win against quality opposition who just happen to be our fiercest rivals. How many games have we sat through with Utd winning it with a flukey goal? Too many for me which is why I'm so happy today.

To use a Basil Fawlty phrase you're uttering the bleeding obvious. We all know the team needs strengthening and that there have been poor performances. But for once leave the negativity behind and concentrate on the positives. Ferguson can't even use any of his pathetic excuses today. They were played off the park. Can't wait to hear his post-match comments.

2-2 at Molineaux at HT.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 04:57:19 PM
Ferguson can't even use any of his pathetic excuses today.

I'll bet he will be moaning that the pivotal moment was the ref failing to send Carra off (at the end of the first half for the foul on Nani)

BTW anyone know how bad Nani's injury is?  He would be a bad loss to Utd, if he misses the run-in......quality player (tho not good in defence)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on March 06, 2011, 04:59:56 PM
adams would be a great addition, I think.
Who would he replace in today's team? Isn't he central midfield? I think we have a solution on the right with Martin Kelly. A left winger is paramount but I haven't a clue who.

Quote
interesting to see if he prolongs his fascination (next season) with 3-5-2
They seem very adaptable to either formation. I'd give Soto another season. Brilliant attitude. Skrtel may have to go.

Quote
defence needs strengthening, big-time.  Johnston is never gonna be up to it, IMHO
But he's adaptable at LB ans well as RW and is dangerous going forward. I'd move him to RW with Kelly overlaps.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on March 06, 2011, 05:02:46 PM
I'll bet he will be moaning that the pivotal moment was the ref failing to send Carra off (at the end of the first half for the foul on Nani)
But to balance that Rafael should have walked for his challenge on Kuyt.

Quote
BTW anyone know how bad Nani's injury is?  He would be a bad loss to Utd, if he misses the run-in......quality player (tho not good in defence)
Given that after being floored he managed to run around after the ref trying to get Jamie sent off it won't be too bad I think. But I hope I'm wrong.  :D

From the BBC site... "Jamie Carragher waited outside MUFC dressing room to apologise to Nani for his studs-up challenge."
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 05:08:07 PM
Who would he replace in today's team? Isn't he central midfield? I think we have a solution on the right with Martin Kelly. A left winger is paramount but I haven't a clue who.
They seem very adaptable to either formation. I'd give Soto another season. Brilliant attitude. Skrtel may have to go.
But he's adaptable at LB ans well as RW and is dangerous going forward. I'd move him to RW with Kelly overlaps.

adams is excellent at dead-ball scenarios - and we do need a corner kick and freekick taker.  Hard to replace any of today's team tho.

yes, left wing - it was obvious today, that offensively, all our efforts were going down the right (and even on the right, we didn't have a decent crosser either).

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on March 06, 2011, 06:19:09 PM
Wonderful result and even better to watch with a room full of mancs! I'm the only liverpool supporter in the area as they're all glory hunters around here, and having to put up with their gloating tends to turn me semi postal...but today...didn't need to say anything, just a big smile and looking at every one of them in the eye as i left and danced up the road...leaving pissed off silent manure's weeping into their beer...
even better, they know that liverpool will be a force again next season...

adams would be a brilliant buy for the freekick/corners, bastos is my hope for left back...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 06, 2011, 06:49:50 PM
sounds like you had a great day there, barticus..............3 up for a long time, whilst sitting among mancs.

i would love it, if we could deny them the title this year.....and then go and win it ourselves next season.

that would most likely put Fergie into retirement, in an awful mood.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on March 06, 2011, 06:59:27 PM
Have you all heard that rednose has refused to be interviewed after the game and has banned his players from being interviewed.  :o

Something must have touched a nerve.  ;D I'm sure Premiership media rules stipulate the club must make someone available for interview. Maybe the monkey had to do the post-match interview. The organ grinder was still on the ceiling presumably not nursing a semi!  :P
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on March 06, 2011, 08:24:39 PM
ha tis a mere flesh wound!

http://yfrog.com/hs4gz1j
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 06, 2011, 08:57:38 PM
Great day. Suarez was outstanding and to make it better I was sat in block mx of the main stand right by the mancs.

I'm going to sleep well tonight. Well done lads you did us all proud

Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 06, 2011, 09:15:37 PM
Is there anything better than shutting up mancs? Blue noses maybe but they aren't as arrogant and obnoxious as mancs (and thats putting it politely)Their fans didn't even look in our direction after the second went in. absolutely loving it

And ASI it's gone past a semi!!!

We've now done our bit to dent their title ambitions I just hope arsenal can  develop a back bone and push on and win it
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 06, 2011, 09:50:41 PM
Great result, great performance, great everything. Too bad we can't repeat the feat. I was very happy to see us today but throughout the game last weekend's decable was like a wet blanket over this game. If we could've mustered a 10th of the passion, movement and resilience we displayed today against Blackpool, Blackburn, Birmingham, West Ham, Wolves and Stoke we'd be in contention for more than 4th. Problem is, this has been the pattern for over a decade. In fact it's made us so predictable it was written all over after our defeat to West Ham we'd win today's game. In other words, lose/draw against relegation fodder just to play the reigning champions off the park a few days later. Until we get rid of this inconsistency we'll be a Europa League team, at best.

I don't mean to sound negative but it's hard to enjoy this victory knowing full we'll we're less than 50 % to beat Sunderland away in a fortnight making today's great result futile. I understand the locals may enjoy the bragging rights won, but in a long term perspective it's hard not to have a more realistic view on this. Arsenal doesn't seem strong enough to prevent ManU from winning no. 19, I'm afraid.

Martin, sometimes you just need to enjoy the moment.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 06, 2011, 10:22:19 PM
United give media a wide berth after Anfield defeat

March 6, 2011


Manchester United failed to provide any post-match interviews after the 3-1 defeat at Liverpool on Sunday, with Sir Alex Ferguson and assistant Mike Phelan refusing to speak to the media.

Ferguson cancelled his pre-match briefing on Friday in protest at the coverage given to his post-match quotes at Chelsea on Tuesday that have landed him with an improper conduct charge, plus the furore that surrounded Wayne Rooney's elbowing of Wigan's James McCarthy last weekend.

In a pre-planned move, United also blanked the media Sunday. Ferguson did not speak to host broadcaster Sky Sports, either before or after his side's third Premier League defeat of the season.

Phelan, did not carry out his usual post-match engagements with the BBC, arranged due to Ferguson's long-standing feud with the organisation, while radio rights holders talkSPORT were also left without any comment from the visitors.

Should any of these organisations complain to the Premier League, the governing body will be forced to act, escalating the problem between Ferguson and the BBC, with the fines for his non-compliance still waiting to be made public.

And for the first time since 2005, even United's own television channel, MUTV, left a senior game without any reaction, which is an embarrassing situation in itself.

It is not yet known whether the media blackout will continue this week, ahead of United's FA Cup quarter-final with Arsenal, although discussions are bound to take place behind the scenes.

The only comments came via a club spokesman, who confirmed Nani will be assessed on Monday before the extent is known, and Rio Ferdinand, who was not even at Anfield, but offered an opinion via Twitter.

"Bad result today no excuses,'' the England skipper stated on the social networking site.


http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/77998.html?CMP=OTC-RSS (http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/77998.html?CMP=OTC-RSS)

Yet again, Taggart and his club show their true lack of class.

Still, I guess no action will be taken even if contractual obligations have been breached and they'll still continue to be the clueless and equally classless media's darlings.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 06, 2011, 10:33:30 PM
Whiskey nose has got far too much power within the game. He throws his toys out of the pram and then everyone bows down to him. It should stop but it won't
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on March 06, 2011, 10:53:28 PM
United are starting to implode. A more powerful chairman would read Ferguson the riot act for the negativity it brings on the club. But Ferguson sees himself as being above rules every other manager adheres to. His hatred of Liverpool is affecting his judgement. Long may it continue!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Redman on March 07, 2011, 07:49:20 AM
Great result, great performance, great everything. Too bad we can't repeat the feat. I was very happy to see us today but throughout the game last weekend's decable was like a wet blanket over this game. If we could've mustered a 10th of the passion, movement and resilience we displayed today against Blackpool, Blackburn, Birmingham, West Ham, Wolves and Stoke we'd be in contention for more than 4th. Problem is, this has been the pattern for over a decade. In fact it's made us so predictable it was written all over after our defeat to West Ham we'd win today's game. In other words, lose/draw against relegation fodder just to play the reigning champions off the park a few days later. Until we get rid of this inconsistency we'll be a Europa League team, at best.

I don't mean to sound negative but it's hard to enjoy this victory knowing full we'll we're less than 50 % to beat Sunderland away in a fortnight making today's great result futile. I understand the locals may enjoy the bragging rights won, but in a long term perspective it's hard not to have a more realistic view on this. Arsenal doesn't seem strong enough to prevent ManU from winning no. 19, I'm afraid.

Are you for real? Just last week you were calling us all kinds of crap and how the whole squad needs replaced, now we're quality. Are you really a Liverpool supporter or just a troll? I don't think we'd have won as convincingly under Roy yesterday, in fact, he's such good friends with the Tramp I suspect we'd have lost by the same scoreline.

On another note. It's good to see the Tramp throwing his toys out the pram, makes me laugh knowing that this defeat eats away at him  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 07, 2011, 03:52:19 PM
United are starting to implode. A more powerful chairman would read Ferguson the riot act for the negativity it brings on the club. But Ferguson sees himself as being above rules every other manager adheres to.

when Liverpool dominated england and europe, we had the respect of most decent minded football fans across the continent.

united's 20 year period of dominance however, will not be looked back upon in a similar fashion.

fergie's arrogance, bullying and nastiness runs to the core of man utd.

any organisation with any respect for itself (referees, football authorities, it's shareholders, it's fans, others that it is contracted to), would act in a professional-minded manner. 

united is rotten to the core.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 08, 2011, 04:29:59 PM
With the likes of Carrick being given a new contract much to the displeasure of most United fans and their recent transfer activity, despite Gill's claims to the contrary, it looks like their financial situation is starting slowly to bite. Shame really.  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 08, 2011, 04:34:59 PM
you know Tes, when Fergie hangs up his hair-dryer, United are in for choppy waters.

Fergie is like United's Bernie Madoff.  i.e. he is the bloke who is keeping all the plates spinning.  The United pyramid scheme would come crashing down without him......the financial house of cards would collapse.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 08, 2011, 04:42:24 PM
Liverpool defender Jamie Carragher barred from Manchester United dressing room following Nani tackle

By Mark Ogden 11:00PM GMT 07 Mar 2011



Jamie Carragher was refused entry to the Manchester United dressing-room on Sunday after attempting to apologise for the challenge which left Nani with a gash so deep that the winger’s shin bone was visible through the open wound.

Nani will discover on Tuesday whether he will be sidelined until next month as a result of the injury inflicted by Carragher’s first-half tackle during the 3-1 defeat at Anfield - which resulted in referee Phil Dowd brandishing a yellow card to the Liverpool defender.

Although Carragher made efforts to show his remorse for the injury suffered by Nani, United’s coaching staff turned the 33 year-old away due to the anger within the United camp, not only with the challenge, but Dowd’s failure to dismiss the former England defender.

Steven Gerrard’s actions in urging the injured Nani to "get up" while he lay on the ground with the injury clearly visibly also infuriated United’s players and staff.

Anger at Carragher’s challenge also spread to the directors’ box, where United chief executive David Gill remonstrated with Mike Riley, head of Premier League referees, over Dowd’s response to the incident.

Nani, who was stretchered off as a result of the injury, left Anfield on crutches and United manager Sir Alex Ferguson is already preparing to be without the Portugal international for Saturday’s FA Cup quarter-final tie against Arsenal at Old Trafford.

...............It is not yet known whether Ferguson will end his self-imposed media black-out prior to the Arsenal fixture, having cancelled last Friday’s pre-match press conference and refused to speak to rights-holding broadcasters before or after the defeat at Anfield.

Having been charged by the Football Association last week for comments made against referee Martin Atkinson, it is understood that Ferguson’s vow of silence has been fuelled by his reluctance to be pressed on the issue.

But by failing to speak to rights holders such as Sky and local radio, the United manager is in breach of Premier League regulations. Ferguson has not spoken to the BBC, a Premier League rights holder, since 2004.

None of the rights holders has lodged a formal complaint with the Premier League since last week, however.

The Premier League is set to discuss the possibility of making pre and post-match press conferences compulsory when it holds its annual meeting in June.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/8366817/Liverpool-defender-Jamie-Carragher-barred-from-Manchester-United-dressing-room-following-Nani-tackle.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/8366817/Liverpool-defender-Jamie-Carragher-barred-from-Manchester-United-dressing-room-following-Nani-tackle.html)

No surprises in any of that lot.

Carra showed class and professionalism by trying to get into see Nani and apologise. Tackles like that happen. They shouldn't, but they do. What a player does in response to committing that sort of tackles/foul is important. Contrast that with Keane on Alf-Inge Haaland and the whole situation building up to it.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 08, 2011, 04:43:54 PM
you know Tes, when Fergie hangs up his hair-dryer, United are in for choppy waters.

Fergie is like United's Bernie Madoff.  i.e. he is the bloke who is keeping all the plates spinning.  The United pyramid scheme would come crashing down without him......the financial house of cards would collapse.

Totally agree, Dude. They could 'fall' further than we have since 1990.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 08, 2011, 04:50:11 PM
Totally agree, Dude. They could 'fall' further than we have since 1990.

absolutely, Tes.

and financially, the difference between them and us is, CL football EVERY SEASON is ESSENTIAL to Man Utd. 

They have placed themselves in a helluva mess.  They are in a Leeds Utd scenario.  They cannot afford to fail.  And that is a mad business model.  It is Russian Roulette.  And if you play that game long enough, there is only one conclusion.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on March 10, 2011, 08:15:19 PM
The game against Braga was a completely different game once Carroll came on...before that it was pretty average ..ideally Carroll will now get match fit and play the whole game...massive difference from being dominated to being dominant...
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 11, 2011, 12:40:00 AM
Not a great performance and we could be vulnerable to an away goal next week. But I've got a feeling its going to be one helluva atmosphere and could be a European classic. The kops been waiting in the wings to give the team a European night boost and next thursday we won't let anyone down
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 11, 2011, 11:22:57 AM
Not a great performance and we could be vulnerable to an away goal next week. But I've got a feeling its going to be one helluva atmosphere and could be a European classic. The kops been waiting in the wings to give the team a European night boost and next thursday we won't let anyone down

Braga don't travel well, but are strong at home. So far they've lived up to that, let's hope their normal away form continues. An early goal and everyone will be settled. The longer it goes before we score the more the nerves will set it.

Our passing and off the ball movement was poor last night. They pressured us well when we had the ball, but the players need to learn that if the opposition are pressuring the man in possession quickly, then the movement needs be be sharper accordingly, giving the man in possession obvious options before he's closed down totally.

It looked like we opted for the cautious approach so we didn't lose too much shape if our attacking move broke down and we wouldn't have too many players out of position which would then be taken advantage of with their ability to counter attack.

All things considered 1-0 isn't the end of the world. We know what we need to do.

The need for a long term, first choice, centre back signing in the Summer was highlighted again. We need one.  Badly.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on March 12, 2011, 10:03:56 AM
The need for a long term, first choice, centre back signing in the Summer was highlighted again. We need one.  Badly.

Agreed Tes I think its priority.

Games like thursdays must be very frustrating for Kenny. A large proportion of that team took United apart 4 days previous. And its not just the players coming into the team that can be held accountable for such massive inconsistency because even the likes of Kuyt who got the hattrick last weekend didnt perform.

Maybe certain players are just too comfortable in knowing that there isnt enough quality to replace them in the starting line-up even if they do play badly. Also some players probably are too comfortable in knowing we have to home leg to come where we will beat anyone. If they are thinking like that then we will eventually get caught out. Hopefully some more quality additions should shake things up and increase competition.

It could be worse though, we could be much further down the road in our redevelopment of the team, have spent hundreds of millions on players in every position and still be 2 nil down going into to the second leg against Dinamo Kiev :-)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 12, 2011, 03:37:51 PM
It could be worse though, we could be much further down the road in our redevelopment of the team, have spent hundreds of millions on players in every position and still be 2 nil down going into to the second leg against Dinamo Kiev :-)

 :D :D :D

man city, and chelsea too, are full of mercenaries.

I'd like to see us have half the team at least, made up of the best of these islands....scots, irish, english, welsh.

That way, our lads are in it for the long term.

man city's mercenaries will hang around ten minutes and jump ship, when more wages are offered somewhere else.



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 12, 2011, 04:41:21 PM
Agreed Tes I think its priority.

Games like thursdays must be very frustrating for Kenny. A large proportion of that team took United apart 4 days previous. And its not just the players coming into the team that can be held accountable for such massive inconsistency because even the likes of Kuyt who got the hattrick last weekend didnt perform.

Maybe certain players are just too comfortable in knowing that there isnt enough quality to replace them in the starting line-up even if they do play badly. Also some players probably are too comfortable in knowing we have to home leg to come where we will beat anyone. If they are thinking like that then we will eventually get caught out. Hopefully some more quality additions should shake things up and increase competition.

It could be worse though, we could be much further down the road in our redevelopment of the team, have spent hundreds of millions on players in every position and still be 2 nil down going into to the second leg against Dinamo Kiev :-)

Excellent points, Juan. No player, whatever their name is, should ever feel comfortable.

Not good news about Gerrard's groin again. Out for four weeks following another op. We need  to start thinking 'the unthinkable' and seriously considering his replacement. This long standing groin problem of his is only going one way, despite another op.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 12, 2011, 04:44:07 PM
:D :D :D

man city, and chelsea too, are full of mercenaries.

I'd like to see us have half the team at least, made up of the best of these islands....scots, irish, english, welsh.

That way, our lads are in it for the long term.

man city's mercenaries will hang around ten minutes and jump ship, when more wages are offered somewhere else.

Exactly, Dude. People can say what they want about the likes of Dirk and Lucas, but at least they give their best for the club and play for the shirt, as opposed to their bank balances.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on March 18, 2011, 12:51:19 PM
Exactly, Dude. People can say what they want about the likes of Dirk and Lucas, but at least they give their best for the club and play for the shirt, as opposed to their bank balances.

I agree Tes Dirk and Lucas do give their best but again after last nights performance is that good enough for LFC? This team is proving to be way too inconsistent to challenge for anything. We dont need tweaks we need major redevelopment.

Its pointless having a team that can beat anyone but are consistently unable to recreate those inspired victories against sides like Braga. Anybody can get fired up for Man United or Chelsea but if you go missing for the games inbetween that whats the point.

Heres my take on what needs to happen to yesterdays squad, big changes are needed to compete.


Skrtel - far too inconsistent and mistake prone. Get rid.

Carragher - was sorely missed when he was injured but maybe time to start giving him less games by bringing in a new top centre half or two. last night he continuously seemed to play long ball after long ball to Carroll. Surely the addition of a big man in the team isnt going to change our football playing philosophy.

Rodriegez - Doesnt offer enough going forward, squad player at best but id cut our losses.

Leiva - Not consistent enough for me. Big performances in big games but again goes missing in between. No creativity. Squad player.

Cole - After last night i struggle to see where he will fit in. Not a winger, not showing enough creativity to take Rauls place behind the strikers. Expensive squad player at best unless a huge improvement.

Kuyt - works so hard for the team, at times gets vital goals and a big game player. But hes neither a winger or a striker and moves always tend to get slowed down when they pass through Kuyt. Definitely more to offer but I would like to see him start on the bench once a quality starter is found on the wing / striker.


After that Wilson hasnt shown the quality to win a first team place just yet and Johnson needs to either keep up the form hes shown at left back, be tried at right wing or be moved on. He is rubbish at right back.

As far as the subs go;

Kryiakos - keep as a squad player

pacheco - hopefully he hangs around for another season

Ngog - get rid

Spearing - hate to say i dont see him being good enough. Maybe one more season.

Poulsen - get rid
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on March 18, 2011, 08:15:31 PM
I'm not gonna comment on the result other than it highlights the fact we shouldn't get carried away by a few good results from the underdog position.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on March 19, 2011, 06:27:25 AM
After seeing the great football played by us against manure and the skill of Suarez running at people and beating them, then us lumping the ball up to Carroll was quite a contrast...

Bar a miracle, we aren't going to get anywhere near Europe next season and this summer will be a time of taking stock and rebuilding, there are shoots of recovery with Suarez and Merieles (the two best things about this season) but in order for us to challenge the top 5 then we will need to be canny in the transfer market and be willing to sacrifice certain players if good offers come in...Reina, Johnson and Aquilani spring to mind...

Lucas and Dirk are fine as squad players and on top form can do a job...but only Dirk would have a chance of being in the starting eleven because even though he gives the ball away a lot, he balances that with his workrate and can also make the difference in tight games as we've seen...
Thursday night was a perfect opportunity to see Lucas as the attacking midfielder he once was...and yet i can't remember one forward pass all game (it's not rugby lucas, you're allowed)
They might still be here next season, but as for the others?

Skrtel had some good tackles on thrusday night but still lacks confidence..
Carra would play brilliantly if he was 85 if it was against manure but for the future...Absolutely need a new centre back..

Maxi did nowt...Cole at least tried in the first half but faded badly.....Spearing is never going to be another Gerrard and hasn't got the quality... Poulsen is poulsen...

Kyriakos and Johnson might stay around...
but as for Ngog (who to be fair put some life into the game when he came on) i think its best for all concerned that he leaves...no matter how hard he tries, he'll never be of the required standard...lucas is pushing that required standard mark already)...

Wilson has much to learn..Pacheco will go in the summer, no manager trusts him it seems, Roy or Kenny..

So who does that leave? Suarez, Carroll, Merieles, Agger, Reina, Kelly, Gerrard and Kuyt...bench players lucas, skrtel, carra, kyriakos and johnson...maybe cole if he continues to improve vastly...

We need a left back, left winger, right winger, central defender and a creative midfielder...and they aint going to be cheap...
We've already got Aquilani as that creative midfielder and as Juventus seem to want him on the cheap and in debt for 40 mil or so, i'd not sell him for less than 15 mil euros... Suso will also be in the squad next season, from what i've seen...
Insua (4 assists) coming back might also mean that we have at least one proper left back...

so that leaves 4 players we need desperately and if we sell the following eleven players (Cole, Jovanovic, Poulsen, Konchesky, Pacheco, Aurelio, Maxi, Ngog, Spearing, Degen, El Zhar) and get them off the wage bill and maybe get 20 mil for the lot..
We can afford to have a smaller squad next season because of the lack of involvement in europe...we have the makings of an excellent squad and with Kenny at the helm, then i'm sure we will be reborn next season...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on March 19, 2011, 09:24:33 AM
I would agree with much of that Barticus. Most of all tho we need resolve and resilience. It's just not acceptable to play ManU off the park one week just to see us crash out to a mediocre team in Europe the next. If anything, that makes us look like the Villa's, Sunderland's or what have you of the footballing world.

This is why it's hard to fully enjoy victories against the Mancs or Chelsea - you just know we can perform to that level on a handful of occasions each season.

Resolve and resilience.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 19, 2011, 09:30:28 AM
Every player needs to be motivated by playing for LFC, NOT by who we're playing against or in which competition.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on March 20, 2011, 09:19:28 AM
Every player needs to be motivated by playing for LFC, NOT by who we're playing against or in which competition.

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. Problem is, that's how it should be, it's not how it actually is. My take on this is for a very very long time we haven't had an ideological code that dictates what players should be brought in. Instead, GH's and Rafa's scientifically driven stance on footy has left this club getting further and further away from its goal by each season despite two false downs in 2002 and 2009.

Take Lucas for instance. Brought in as a future prospect but was for various reasons thrown into the fire quite early on. For two and a half seasons now he's been playing regurarly week in and week out without developing one inch. Maxi, could you ever find a more indifferent and weak players walking a pair of footballshoes? I couldn't. The list goes on. It's not necessarily that these players are poor in quality (which they are often as well), it's that they're so poor mentally that see us play the champions to be off the park one week only to drop points against relegation fodder the next.

That's why I was so happy to see us linked with Charlie Adam last January. I so hope we get him and others with his attitude and mentality in during the summer window.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on March 20, 2011, 11:39:12 AM
Martin your example of Lucas although I agree he isnt good enough to start week in week out  I dont agree that he hasnt improved. He has in fainress to the guy but my problem is that its just not to the consistent level where he will contribute massively to a title challenge.

Agreed on Charlie Adam he is a player that we could really do with. He seems to be the type of player that doesnt just want to get through 90 minutes but wants the responsibility and goal scoring burden to go with it. His second goal for Blackpool yesterday was top class.

Come the summer I think you could have United Chelsea Arsenal City and Spurs all after Adam and where I was reluctant to pay 10 million in january I would certainly pay it now. Get the deal done and dusted before it turns into an auction.
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 20, 2011, 03:55:26 PM
Always great to get a win away from home. I thought spearing and Lucas and the main man Suarez worked tirelessly throughout. We're no way near the finished article but we're heading the right way
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Juan on March 20, 2011, 04:10:25 PM
Suarez is different class. Super finish.

Nice to get 3 points against a tricky Sunderland side. Looking forward to the inconsistent players being weeded out this summer and hopefully replaced with more quality like Suarez.

 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on March 20, 2011, 05:05:38 PM
Quite lucky with the penalty altho we sure as fcuk had our fair share of tough calls against this season. Other than that I'd say, in a way this was one of the better performances this season. For a change we displayed grit and resolve and bang on the points dropped in. It really isn't harder than that. True, the opening half our we were pretty dire but from the opening goal on there really was just a team on the pitch. Hope to see more of this over the coming months.

Suarez surely must be our best signing since, well, dare I say it, Kenny Dalglish. What a player he is!  :) Also think Kuijt deserves special mention. How strong he is. A hero indeed.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 20, 2011, 05:11:38 PM
always felt it was a great shame that Suarez was ineligible for europe this season.

he is the type of player who can open up defences.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on March 20, 2011, 07:35:25 PM
Martin your example of Lucas although I agree he isnt good enough to start week in week out  I dont agree that he hasnt improved. He has in fainress to the guy but my problem is that its just not to the consistent level where he will contribute massively to a title challenge.

What I mean is, compared to Babel and Ngog he's enjoyed the comfort of knowing he's gonna be picked. It may be unfair to say he hasn't developed at all, but it's equally wrong to say he's developed to a good enough level.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on March 21, 2011, 01:39:24 PM
Only just seen the game as i've spent the weekend up on the campo staring at the moon...but after seeing the game this morning i must say one thing...suarez is a revelation...if he had played vs braga we would have walked it...the actual pleasure of seeing a player with his workrate, skill and panache was quite something...no moping/prima donna antics with this player...i know which player's name goes on my shirt this summer...

thought spearing also played well...he keeps doing so and he will earn a place in the squad next season if he keeps doing this (on the bench for now and if he vastly improves then who knows??)...

thought the whole unit was solid and Carroll was looking dangerous...wingers in the summer and we'll be laughing...he was unlucky with the cattermole goal line clearance...

the pathetic attempt by bruce and the press to make a meal of the ref's decision...it was inches out but it wasn't as if it was miles out...in the rush of the game i've seen em given both ways...beachballs on the pitch scoring a goal is against premier rules but i don't seem to remember the fuss over that...rafa was sedate in comparison...

20 points in 10 games under kenny says it all...25 points in 20 games under Roy says it all...with that vague stat comparison we'd have had roughly 60 points if we'd brought kenny in at the start of the season...though i can't criticise broughton and purslow cos they got rid of hicks and gillette...

2 weeks off...next game against Roy...
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on March 21, 2011, 08:10:35 PM
As you say barticus wingers are vital in the summer. To get the best out of carrol we need wide men who can cross a ball. Young fits the bill and looks like he'll be available. But I'm sure all of the current front 5 will be interested.

The left wing is a bit trickier. no one springs to mind. Adam Johnson would be nice but isn't going to be available. Anyone got any suggestions?

Next year we could have a team of predominantly British players. Which I think would be brilliant. I've got nothing against foreign players but I think we should get a lot more loyalty  from them.

Any one seen us being linked with Leighton baines? Can't see it happening. And I think he's a blue nose fan aswell.

The more I think about it the more I reckon a top 4 place next year is a realistic target
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 22, 2011, 05:39:18 PM
ashley young (for the wing) and adams (for the centre of midfield), would be a good piece of summer business.  Though as you say, kopite, there will be a lot of competition for the signatures of adams and young, come the summer.   I particularly like Adams....then again, I do prefer that grit and determination one gets with scottish players.

yes, I see leighton baines is getting linked, for that bothersome fullback role. 

I hope to goodness Reina does not leave.  That would be a helluva kick in the teeth.  He is, for my money, possibly the finest keeper in Europe.  I would pay him top money to stay.  If you are the best in the business, then you deserve top dollar pay packets.

BTW the sale of Torres is looking, by the week, like the biggest daylight robbery, since Dick Turpin roamed the English roads.  It's a wonder that we don't see the cops pay a visit to Anfield.  GREAT piece of business.   Wish we'd also done the same with with Gerrard years ago.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on March 22, 2011, 07:24:11 PM
Agreed Dude,
Baines, Adam and Young would definately increase our English contingent...others will be circling above all three and personally i'd prefer Adam if we only get one...think he'd be perfect for a replacement for gerrard in the next couple of years...
Young has never really impressed me and as he's bound to be more expensive than Adam then i'd put all our efforts in wooing Adam..Sanchez from Udinese for right wing would be my must buy as he's 23...
Baines is a good left back...but i think he's a bitter and as he's in his 20's i can't see it...

lol on torres...suarez is a real pleasure to watch and he cost less than half what torres was is even better...

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on March 22, 2011, 11:20:35 PM
like you, Barticus, Adams is the big one for me.

Young, tho a good buy when at the right money, I can take or leave.  I think Man Utd may well have their sights set on him.

Agreed re Suarez.  The lad is magic.  The difference between him and Torres is like night and day.  He makes people sit up, when he gets the ball.  He brings smiles and happiness to the fans.




Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on March 23, 2011, 12:20:29 AM
Young's rumoured to have just purchased a house down South, so may he'll end up at Spurs.

Baines is apparently a Red, but even though Everton are struggling financially, I just can't see Moyes and Kenwright letting this one happen.

So Charlie Adam it is then. We're not a proper Liverpool team without a Scotsman (or two, three or four) in there.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 02, 2011, 04:10:03 PM
wba - liverpool HT 0-0

like an end of season game.....sunshine, half-hearted, affair.

we struggle to get out of our own half.  Not that WBA are much better.  It is akin to watching a donkey being mauled by a toothless old goat.  We look disorganised.  Can Kenny change things - I have my doubts.  Mind you, we can't get much worse (famous last words).  Agger went off....very worrying.

roy hodgson seems to have instructed his team to shoot on sight.  Thus we have cringeworthy daisy cutters from 25 and 30 yards.  Only Roy could imagine that Pepe Reina was a poor shot stopper.


Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 02, 2011, 04:11:26 PM
we scores...49 minutes.

awesome performance......lads look really up for it.




Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 02, 2011, 04:31:47 PM
1-1

awful performance.

Sir Dudely Kneejerker
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 02, 2011, 04:50:39 PM
1-2

late penalty gives baggies the lead
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 02, 2011, 04:59:22 PM
It was written that we would lose this one. Two enforced subs early on losing influential players and a yellow for Carroll curtailed his game. Good defending by WBA at the death to prevent Suarez equaliser.

Poor game for Soto and Reina. Probably neither will be with us next season. Bad day at black rock!!
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on April 02, 2011, 05:42:32 PM
On way back from the hawthorns. Tbh we didn't deserve anything. We need the summer urgently. Injuries to the back 4 were crucial.anyway at least the fans were in good voice.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on April 02, 2011, 10:44:33 PM
Another 3 points Hodgson has cost us!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 03, 2011, 01:29:47 AM
Outclassed, outwilled, outplayed, out-what-have-you for 88 minutes. We were nothing short of a total embarrassement today. I was starting to think we would get away with one of the most underserved points I ever saw us gain. It's unbelieveable really how little some players ask of themselves. If anything this game shows we're hardly a few top players from having a good enough side, we're looking at total upheaveal ffs. Only two players deserves credit today and that is Reina and Suarez. Good knows how much longer the latter will produce at this level before he too sinks into the mediocrity which is the level you need to reach to wear a red shirt these days. I can't in words describe how disappointed I am. As per usual wanting to win it was enough to beat us. We made championship players look like Barca.

Reina - saved us from an even more humiliating scoreline.

Carragher - didn't realise til the end he was playing. No leadership, no nothing.

Skrtel - actually one of his better games this season and I'm not saying that because he scored.

Kyrgiakos - I guess it's easy to single him out for criticism causing two penalties. It wasn't, however, his fault we were under constant pressure during the 10 minutes that led up to the first penalty. The situation was bound to happen and it could just as easily have been somebody else. The second penalty you could argue he was fouled, but you could just as easily argue he went down too easy in the hope of winning a free-kick.

Wilson - doesn't even look like he's good enough for the Championship, nevermind the Premier league. Of all the lame players I ever saw in a red shirt ... "Well, his only young" bla. bla. bla. bla. Bottom line is, what the hell is he even doing in our squad.

Kuijt - truly an off day by his standards. Offered absolutely nothing.

Spearing - "He's only young" an'all. Yawn. His inability to work for the team did wonders to help the Baggies dominate the midfield from the 3rd minute onwards.

Lucas - By far the most experienced central midfielder in a red shirt. Despite having been played regurarly for 2 seasons regardless of how poor he perform he offers this team nothing. He's so poor it's criminal really. If there was one player who should take a step forward it was him. Problem is, he never did and he never will. But hey, it doesn't matter. He's started 2 friendlies for the Brazilieros, lets hand him a life-long contract with a guarantee he'll be the first name on the team sheet despite the fact it's obvious he will NEVER help this club moving forward.

Meireles - looks like he spent his gun powder during january and february. For every made pass there was 6 or 7 misplaced.

Carrol - I don't know. It's early days an'all but shouldn't there at least be a glimpse he's worth at least 10 million? Olsson got to him during the opening halfhour and that was enough to knock him out of the game. Fair enough Atkinson was hellbent on refusing him anything. Nevertheless, you got to ask more than this.

Suarez - the only reason I watch our games these days. What a class player he is. But as I said above, the culture of mediocrity that is Liverpool FC will get to him sooner rather than later.

We'll be back beating ManC with ease in 9 days time and all will be forgotten. Problem is, we've seen this shine-a-light for over a decade now, only now at an even worse level. We're sinking.

Anyone who seriously believe it's all about getting a winger or two in is deluded beyond belief. Of the players that finished the game I'd keep Reina, Suarez, Kuyt and Carrol. Let the rest go find a team at their true level.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 03, 2011, 04:20:18 PM
Chuckles rides again.




Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 03, 2011, 04:36:22 PM
Chuckles rides again.

After the Manure game our friend wrote "Great result, great performance, great everything."

And after yesterday's disappointing game against a side that came back from 2-0 down to draw away at Manure, drew against Arsenal and won away at Birmingham we were apparently "Outclassed, outwilled, outplayed, out-what-have-you for 88 minutes. We were nothing short of a total embarrassement today."

MartinMarx has the most polarised opinions I know. We all know the side needs improving but it's far from a poor squad. We lost 2 defenders in the first 30 mins. Of course it had an impact with the quality of their replacements given they were bought under the previous owners when money was virtually non-existent.

I'd be more worried if I was an Arsenal supporter.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 03, 2011, 06:36:08 PM
After the Manure game our friend wrote "Great result, great performance, great everything."

And after yesterday's disappointing game against a side that came back from 2-0 down to draw away at Manure, drew against Arsenal and won away at Birmingham we were apparently "Outclassed, outwilled, outplayed, out-what-have-you for 88 minutes. We were nothing short of a total embarrassement today."

MartinMarx has the most polarised opinions I know. We all know the side needs improving but it's far from a poor squad. We lost 2 defenders in the first 30 mins. Of course it had an impact with the quality of their replacements given they were bought under the previous owners when money was virtually non-existent.

I'd be more worried if I was an Arsenal supporter.

LOL  yes, Martin's Law suggests Arsenal are relegation fodder - and Man Utd are mediocre.

Jim should set aside a special forum specifically for Martin.  A place where he can rant and let off steam, to his heart's content. The regular forums here are a place where fans can interact, share ideas and opinions....bounce things off each other. 

But communication with Martin is a one-way thing.  He rants, in big long posts.....that he is fully aware, cause annoyance and offence.  Even if he would inject a little humour and self-depreciation into his rants, that would take some of the sting off them.

My feeling is that he is either a troll........or possibly has serious other issues.  What we are seeing, is not normal.  There is no interaction here, no discussion or exchange of ideas.  It is a tad bizarre.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 03, 2011, 08:48:28 PM
Plenty of knee exercises.

This was always going to be a long process.

Shame patience can't be bought through mail order off t'interweb.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 03, 2011, 10:34:53 PM
Dude,

I don't think he's called Martin at all. I think his name is Alex Arsene David Sam Marx! And as you hint at he has serious anger management issues. Liverpool supporter? Not the writings of one I recognise. Still, it takes all sorts eh?  ;D
Title: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on April 04, 2011, 12:08:39 AM


My feeling is that he is either a troll........or possibly has serious other issues.

LOL. you've been listening too much to Charlie sheen dude!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 04, 2011, 12:53:11 AM
Instead try some Mr Sheen. Dusting can be quite cathartic and revealing (if it's not been done for a while).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on April 04, 2011, 01:30:34 AM
Jesus wept  :) Long lists of players and how crap they are summarised with 4 who are somehow "worthy" to be still at the club (2 of whom have barely been at the club 5 minutes, another who's been want-away all season). This sort of commentary is at best entirely defeatist, at worst childish.

The club exists within it's current context and for better or worse we work with what we have and move forward. It is utterly impossible for us to field a world 11 tomorrow.

Some players are on the way out, others want to leave, some are just arrived, there's a bunch of young talent to be looked at and so on. All of this is going on under the cold analysis of one of the greatest football brains of all time who's pretty much seen it all in the game....

Decisions will be made. But you can learn a hell of a lot about players in a defeat away to West Brom that will stand us in good stead in the future. Singling out individual players en masse, ignores the team. Change something here, swap something there or coach something somewhere else and the there's a difference!

So sit back and enjoy the process!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 04, 2011, 07:30:36 AM
Dude,

I don't think he's called Martin at all. I think his name is Alex Arsene David Sam Marx! And as you hint at he has serious anger management issues. Liverpool supporter? Not the writings of one I recognise. Still, it takes all sorts eh?  ;D

agreed, ASI, some serious issues at play here.

reminds me of Golden Gordon (Michael Palin's Ripping Yarns series) and his wife having to hide all the living room contents, after yet another defeat for Palin's team.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmLDlpapPKE
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 04, 2011, 08:06:23 AM
LOL. you've been listening too much to Charlie sheen dude!

 :D

We're not bi-polar. We're bi-winning. We win here and we win there.  The only thing we're addicted to right now is winning.

It’s been a tsunami of media and we've been riding it on a mercury surfboard.

I’m tired of pretending I’m not special. I’m tired of pretending I’m not a total bitchin’ rock star from Mars.

People can’t figure me out, they can’t process me, I don’t expect them to. You can’t process me with the normal brain.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on April 04, 2011, 08:03:58 PM
We need to get sponsored by Tigerblood next season and number 19 will be easy!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QS0q3mGPGg
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 04, 2011, 08:34:20 PM
We need to get sponsored by Tigerblood next season and number 19 will be easy!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QS0q3mGPGg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QS0q3mGPGg)

I LOVE that song - superb.  It would be a number one, if we had charts these days.

And the female interviewer - she has this wonderful vacant look.

Class song. 

Where does Charlie come up with all these off the cuff mad quotes. 

I suspect he never sleeps.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 04, 2011, 09:26:31 PM
I LOVE that song - superb.  It would be a number one, if we had charts these days.

And the female interviewer - she has this wonderful pretty vacant look.

Class song. 

Where does Charlie come up with all these off the cuff mad quotes. 

I suspect he never sleeps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHhB9zV_rQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHhB9zV_rQ)
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 05, 2011, 08:26:45 PM
agreed, ASI, some serious issues at play here.

reminds me of Golden Gordon (Michael Palin's Ripping Yarns series) and his wife having to hide all the living room contents, after yet another defeat for Palin's team.

That gave me a good laugh! By 'eck, those Yorkshire folk knew how to enjoy themselves!  :D
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 07, 2011, 02:53:15 PM
That gave me a good laugh! By 'eck, those Yorkshire folk knew how to enjoy themselves!  :D

by eck, Mr Herriot, I say what I like, and I damn well like what I say

*said in thick yorkshire accent*

an american gringo mentioned this show (All creatures Great and Small) last night...out of the blue.  She used to love it, when it was shown decades ago in America.

Why does tv and movies not show such real characters and scenarios like this any more (well, rarely).   

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 07, 2011, 05:34:25 PM
Isn't "All Creatures Great and Small" the one where an attractive woman slips on a full-length rubber sleeve and her arm disappears up a cow's bottom?  :o

Animal Liberation Front wouldn't like that!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 08, 2011, 10:39:59 AM
Isn't "All Creatures Great and Small" the one where an attractive woman slips on a full-length rubber sleeve and her arm disappears up a cow's bottom?  :o

Animal Liberation Front wouldn't like that!!

they don't like it up em.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: barticus on April 08, 2011, 01:39:06 PM
Sad news that Stevie G is out for the rest of the season...badly missing in the game against braga cos i was still looking for stevie to step up and have a go...i know he can be wasteful lately but at least he steps up ...unlike others who tend to hide...
but perhaps rest and recuperation during the next 4 months can enable him to regain something like his prowess that we have seen in the last 7 years or so...i think he'll have to be used wisely and sparingly even when fully fit next season because his legs ain't what they used to be...
but from the noises coming from john henry et al...we'll buy quite a few players in the summer and get rid of quite a few....his 'i have come here to win the league' does bode well...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on April 09, 2011, 02:28:12 AM
I think that the injury situation is a blessing in disguise because at least we're learning hard lessons about the depth/character of the squad which will be useful when planning recruitment over the Summer (tbh, Gerrard & Agger are not the most reliable when it comes to injuries!). I'd happily sacrifice 5th if it meant that we weren't suffering under any delusions come the start of next season about where we most need cover! & also it's a good test of what Dalglish is capable of with limited resources!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 09, 2011, 10:34:44 PM
Sad news that Stevie G is out for the rest of the season...badly missing in the game against braga cos i was still looking for stevie to step up and have a go...i know he can be wasteful lately but at least he steps up ...unlike others who tend to hide...
but perhaps rest and recuperation during the next 4 months can enable him to regain something like his prowess that we have seen in the last 7 years or so...i think he'll have to be used wisely and sparingly even when fully fit next season because his legs ain't what they used to be...
but from the noises coming from john henry et al...we'll buy quite a few players in the summer and get rid of quite a few....his 'i have come here to win the league' does bode well...

Barticus, Gerrard's groin problems are long standing and no matter how much rest he gets, or operations for that matter, I can't see things improving from what they have been over the past two seasons, at least not to any significant degree. I think he needs to re-invent himself if he wants to play a bigger part (in terms of appearances at least), a bit like John Barnes did, and be prepared to be a deeper sitting, more defensive midfielder in the mould of Didi Hamann (conservative movement but huge effectiveness),  who can pull the strings to a certain degree (more than Didi, but less than Xabi).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 10, 2011, 03:28:11 PM
Tes, the last person I would choose to have sitting in front of my back four, with would be Stevie.

the closer he is to our back four (throughout his career) the closer we are to a catastrophe. 

His levels of concentration are poor.  He is positionally often unaware, he makes bad decisions (look at the number of times he has tried to pass the ball back to our keeper, having not seen an opposition striker about to pounce on the pass-back and score). 

We badly miss Didi.  He was awesome.  He is irreplacable.  Indeed, HE was the one who turned the game around in that 2005 CL final.

Stevie is coming to the end of his career.  I'd like to see him play where he is most effective for the TEAM - i.e. out on the right.  He can whip balls in from there for Carroll.






Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 10, 2011, 08:53:55 PM
I know what you mean, Dude but I don't think his groin would cope with playing out there, which is why I was saying he'd have to re-invent himself. With his experience and age he should be able to, whether he has the mentality to is the question that remains very open.

I think his injury problems have brought much more sharply into focus the need to find his replacement and brought forward the time it needs to happen.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 10, 2011, 10:14:44 PM
Charlie Adam would be his natural replacement but as Gerrard only turns 31 at the end of May surely it's too soon to be writing him off. He's had groin problems in earlier days so providing the injury is treated properly and he has sufficient recovery time he should be fine for pre-season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 10, 2011, 10:51:38 PM
Charlie Adam would be his natural replacement but as Gerrard only turns 31 at the end of May surely it's too soon to be writing him off. He's had groin problems in earlier days so providing the injury is treated properly and he has sufficient recovery time he should be fine for pre-season.

He's had re-occurring groin problems now for two seasons. The group of muscles in the groin are some of the hardest to treat and gain total recovery from, likewise injuries there can be very hard to diagnose and even with the correct diagnosis, successful treatment is still far from guaranteed. I keep saying this unfortunately, but I don't see Gerrard being totally free of this problem for what remains of his career. 
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 10, 2011, 11:08:06 PM
yes, stevie is gonna find it hard to ever get rid of this type of injury, at this point in his career.

as Tes says, his best days are most likely behind him.

Fair poijnt re him not having the fitness to play on the right side.

But I am not at all convinced that Stevie can be deployed in other roles. 

But, and I have said this for 7 or 8 years, I see Stevie like Bryan Robson - i.e. as his influence grows less in the team, it will allow the team to push on.  Man Utd won that first title when Robson was 35 or 36 years old. 

There is a great future ahead.  I would not be overly concerned about Stevie playing less of a role. 

Reminds me, I must soon write up my end of season report.  I have one or two things to say, that might stir up one or two of the natives in here.   ;D



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 10, 2011, 11:12:20 PM
Reminds me, I must soon write up my end of season report.  I have one or two things to say, that might stir up one or two of the natives in here.   ;D

 :D   :D   The season can't end soon enough then.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on April 11, 2011, 02:24:37 AM
Hmmm....Stevie G. Like you've been saying probably needs to ADAPT his game! Young Lucas has come in and laid a claim to the defensive midfield slot and I presume that we're going to buy some decent wingers. Meireles is our attacking midfield guy....which in a conventional sense leaves a role for a passer/creative type....

This raises a lot of questions, in particular it would seem ridiculous to be reliant on a guy who is now likely to miss two months of the season?? Hell who are we kidding the Gerrard era is passed and the team is crying out for a new talisman!!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 11, 2011, 06:12:18 PM
Hell who are we kidding the Gerrard era is passed and the team is crying out for a new talisman!!!

Can opened. Worms starting to escape.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 11, 2011, 07:29:46 PM
Reina, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Kuyt, Spearing, Lucas, Meireles, Suarez, Carroll

Geez, surely that's by far the weakest side we've fielded against a top side in the last two decades?

We need every player to perform well above their true level while, at the same time, City's having an off nite. Then and only then do we have a chance to avoid getting well and truly trashed.

It's almost heartbreaking to see that starting line-up.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 11, 2011, 10:16:57 PM
Reina, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Kuyt, Spearing, Lucas, Meireles, Suarez, Carroll

Geez, surely that's by far the weakest side we've fielded against a top side in the last two decades?

We need every player to perform well above their true level while, at the same time, City's having an off nite. Then and only then do we have a chance to avoid getting well and truly trashed.

It's almost heartbreaking to see that starting line-up.

Classic quote from Martin!!  ;D So my cheery friend. What did you think of the performance? I'd agree with you that it was heartbreaking ..... for City!!  :o

The first 45 minutes was probably our best performance of the season. Top marks all round especially for Flanagan with a performance of poise and maturity. Suarez deserved a goal and Kuyt was everywhere. But I shouldn't single out any one player because they all played brilliantly.

Over to chuckles...
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 11, 2011, 11:34:28 PM
Strange, when people want to see us produce youngsters and then when we play them, moan that the team looks weak.

If Flanagan plays the last few games and performs as well, then we have a second major positive alongside Kelly to come out of the season.

Made up for Andy Carroll getting off the mark.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 11, 2011, 11:36:35 PM
Reina, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Kuyt, Spearing, Lucas, Meireles, Suarez, Carroll

Geez, surely that's by far the weakest side we've fielded against a top side in the last two decades?

We need every player to perform well above their true level while, at the same time, City's having an off nite. Then and only then do we have a chance to avoid getting well and truly trashed.

It's almost heartbreaking to see that starting line-up.

I prescribe prozac.

Martin, please re-post this before every match. Your negativity produced such positivity tonight.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on April 11, 2011, 11:54:49 PM
Reina, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Kuyt, Spearing, Lucas, Meireles, Suarez, Carroll

Geez, surely that's by far the weakest side we've fielded against a top side in the last two decades?

We need every player to perform well above their true level while, at the same time, City's having an off nite. Then and only then do we have a chance to avoid getting well and truly trashed.

It's almost heartbreaking to see that starting line-up.

Flanagan was awesome, great debut.

Spearing and Lucas Dominated Yaya Toure and Barry.

I really worry for you man. Try not to be too down hearted all the time. You are in a minority of about 10 people I know of, who does not rate Lucas. Even my Barca and Madrid supporting friends rate Lucas a lot. Why? because as a central midfielder - central being the operative word, not defensive, Lucas is very effective and does the simple things well and sets up the direction of our plays. Lucas is our future captain whether you like it or not. Reina is off next season, Carra and Gerrard are almost retired, Kuyt is getting on and therefore Lucas is the natural successor to Gerrard as captain.

We still have LONG way to go, don't get me wrong, but we are on our way up. In the summer if we get 6 or 7 players in certain positions:- Full back, Centre back, Wide man/Winger, Creative midfielder, Central midfielder, Forward. Plus supplement that first team squad with the likes of Flanagan, Coady, Wisdom, Suso, Sterling and we'd definitely challenge for a top 4 place next season and the league the season after.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 12, 2011, 12:12:18 PM
I prescribe prozac.

Martin, please re-post this before every match. Your negativity produced such positivity tonight.

You also have the option to go back and read my post-game comments from last weekend where I said we'd win this.

Also, in what respect was I wrong? Fact, we did play well above our true level. Fact, City did have a nite off. Fact, it was arguably the best performance this season second only to our defeat of ManU. But in many respects this was the same team that was truly and utterly played off the Hawthorns just 9 days ago. True, we may well repeat this feat at the Emirates against a totally out-of-form Arsenal. But it also remains true that we are more than likely to drop points at home against Brummies, away to Fulham and Villa. If anything, last nite's performance is a leve we're able to reach in a handful of games per season. It remains true that we beat ManU in style just to get equally outplayed against West ham, that WBA totally humiliate us for 80 minutes just to humiliate City 9 days later. This inconsistency means 6th is the best we can and will get for a long time. Reason for that, IMHO, is that there is to many players in our squd content with beating the top teams (like the true underdogs are) while rather indifferent to the proposition a win against the bottomteams earns us the same amount of points.

I maintain that starting line up is heartbreaking to see. Play it for 15 consecutive games and you may start to think of it differently.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 12, 2011, 05:05:26 PM
We still have LONG way to go, don't get me wrong, but we are on our way up. In the summer if we get 6 or 7 players in certain positions:- Full back, Centre back, Wide man/Winger, Creative midfielder, Central midfielder, Forward. Plus supplement that first team squad with the likes of Flanagan, Coady, Wisdom, Suso, Sterling and we'd definitely challenge for a top 4 place next season and the league the season after.

Ed mate, that's not a LONG way to go. That's exceptionally short and doesn't reflect an honest analysis about where we are today, no pun intended. I don't see us qualify for the CL in the coming 3 years. It's not "just" getting the players in, it's very much about creating a winning mentality built on resilience and compusure. That, my friend, won't happen over night, let alone over the course of the upcoming two seasons.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 12, 2011, 05:06:09 PM
MartinMarx,

I despair!! Go and support someone else - please!  >:(
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 12, 2011, 05:15:59 PM
Martin, you have been well and truly clobbered this time.  Hung by your own words.  Like they say, for some folks, you just need to give them enough rope.

I almost wish I could have seen your forum posts that night in Istanbul, in 2005, when we came back to beat AC Milan.  Probably something like:

"AC Milan were awful.  They imploded.  3-0 up and threw it away.

John Arne Riise needed two goes, to get a cross in, which Gerrard managed to get a head to. 

Smicer somehow contrived to score.  And Alonso missed a penalty to equalise (scrapped in the rebound from the Milan keeper)

Jerzy Dudek then saved from Andriy Shevchenko - what a miss.  Two sitters and he managed to screw both up.

Dudek was most unsportsmanlike and waved his arms about for the penalties.  Carragher encouraged this.  That is something that we should be frowning upon.  Embarrassing.  And in front of a worldwide audience of billions.

Conclusion, desperately fortunate.  On another night, we would have been hammered by 7 or 8 goals.  We got lucky.   Benitez made an awful selection.  Got lucky at half time when someone realised that he had 12 men picked to go out for the second half.  Man, did he get out of jail. 

We need to dismantle this team in the summer.  It is mediocre.  It will never be competitive. We need an entire new team.  And we need someone who can take penalties."
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 12, 2011, 05:17:03 PM
You also have the option to go back and read my post-game comments from last weekend where I said we'd win this.


So why the change of heart and negativity before a ball was kicked?

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 12, 2011, 05:20:59 PM
MartinMarx,

I despair!! Go and support someone else - please!  >:(

I bet every club has their Martin-type *supporters*

Imagine Senor Martin, the Barcelona fan, 2011.

"It was better under Cruyff.  Real Madrid are poor.  I sorta wish they were better.  I take no enjoyment from being top of the league.  It does not feel right.  We are lucky to be in the Champions League.  This team is mediocre."
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 12, 2011, 05:27:49 PM
Ed mate, that's not a LONG way to go. That's exceptionally short and doesn't reflect an honest analysis about where we are today, no pun intended. I don't see us qualify for the CL in the coming 3 years. It's not "just" getting the players in, it's very much about creating a winning mentality built on resilience and compusure. That, my friend, won't happen over night, let alone over the course of the upcoming two seasons.

Yet Spurs have managed it in less than the time frame you give. '07/'08 season (3 seasons ago) Spurs finished 11th on 46 points.

City could still be unstable and on their 5th or 6th manager of the Monsour reign, Taggart could be retired, Wenger could have departed, 'Arry could be England boss and who knows with Chelsea and Abramovich's meddling - three years hence.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 12, 2011, 05:59:06 PM
I bet every club has their Martin-type *supporters*

Imagine Senor Martin, the Barcelona fan, 2011.

"It was better under Cruyff.  Real Madrid are poor.  I sorta wish they were better.  I take no enjoyment from being top of the league.  It does not feel right.  We are lucky to be in the Champions League.  This team is mediocre."

How right you are Dude.

What I don't understand is why he always has to look at things in such a negative light. Here we are having beaten Manure and City at home 6-1 and yet we still have a team hardly worthy of the shirt. Yes, we all know we lost to WBA, WHU and Blackpool but to me you're a lot closer to being a good team when you beat the likes of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea away. What happened before Kenny took over is of no interest to me because the manager couldn't manage the team.

Our record since January must put us in the top 6-7 and with more recruits next season a top 4 is quite possible. There's a lot more to a winning team than just buying players as Man City are finding out to their cost.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on April 12, 2011, 06:38:17 PM
Ed mate, that's not a LONG way to go. That's exceptionally short and doesn't reflect an honest analysis about where we are today, no pun intended. I don't see us qualify for the CL in the coming 3 years. It's not "just" getting the players in, it's very much about creating a winning mentality built on resilience and compusure. That, my friend, won't happen over night, let alone over the course of the upcoming two seasons.

23 points in 12 league games. Pro-rate that for 38 games and in theory, we would have competed for the top 4 properly.

Plus that is with a weak squad and injuries.

TRUST ME We will challenge for a CL place next season - I guarantee it. You don't know the things I know in as such as the players we have already spoken with and had agreements with. We will sign top class players in the summer, plus a few squad players too.

I understand your concerns but I do not share them. Under Kenny we will have a totally different mentality and he will ship out the players who aren't up for it.

Also I got to say that I don't see any outstanding team in England right now. Manure, chavski, arsenal, city, spurs all are good, good teams but not outstanding imo and I believe we have a real chance in the summer to catch up.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 12, 2011, 07:02:47 PM
I maintain that starting line up is heartbreaking to see. Play it for 15 consecutive games and you may start to think of it differently.

Or you can see it for what it was last night. A team that's had it's heart ripped out by a major injury crisis. It happens and you need to accept it. As for your 15 game extension of the original point, it goes without saying that nobody, not even the most optimistic amongst us, would be comfortable with the idea.

What we saw on Monday night was a combination of 3 of our back four (or both 1st and 2nd choice right backs, whichever order you place Kelly and Johnson in) plus our captain being injured, the mistakes in the market by Rafa and the financial shenanigans (which had a contributory effect towards Rafa's transfer policy) of the previous ownership.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 12, 2011, 09:47:53 PM
23 points in 12 league games. Pro-rate that for 38 games and in theory, we would have competed for the top 4 properly.

Plus that is with a weak squad and injuries.

TRUST ME We will challenge for a CL place next season - I guarantee it. You don't know the things I know in as such as the players we have already spoken with and had agreements with. We will sign top class players in the summer, plus a few squad players too.

I understand your concerns but I do not share them. Under Kenny we will have a totally different mentality and he will ship out the players who aren't up for it.

Also I got to say that I don't see any outstanding team in England right now. Manure, chavski, arsenal, city, spurs all are good, good teams but not outstanding imo and I believe we have a real chance in the summer to catch up.

1) We've lost to Blackpool, West Ham and WBA under Kenny. We also drew Wigan at home. That's 4th lost IMHO.

2) We will not challenge for top 4 next season for the simple reason it doesn't matter what playes we bring in. That has little or nothing to do with it. Or rather, bringing in fancy players with a hefty price tag isn't the answer to our questions. I love to hear we're looking at Adam, Baines and Cahill but don't think we'll get all three. If we did I'd say we're off to a good start.

3) Kenny just prolonged with Lucas. Doesn't seem like he recognise mediocrity even if it jumps up and bit him by his balls. Not slating Lucas, just saying he ain't good enough for a team aspiring higher than 5th.

4) You say you don't see any outstanding team in England. Mate, you can do much better than that. ManU will win the title, they're in the semi's both in the Cup and the CL. What more do they need to do to be considered outstanding????? I hate to admit it but sometimes you got to be honest about it.

5) I admire your optimism but fear you'll be heavily disappointed come late October. If we'd manage to hold on to Alonso and Masch I'd given you a case. As it is we need to completely rebuild our midfield over the next 2-3 seasons. While we do so, our inconsistency will continue and so will our lack of CL footy. It seems it hasn't dawned on you how far behind we slipped under Rafa. 7th last season, 6th this. We know the teams above us won't get any worse (apart from Chelsea perhaps) so forgive me for thinking the guarantee you're on about is as credible as our formes manager's.

6) Injuries are part of the game. Why is it so hard to accept? ManU went without many keyplayers this season yet will walk the title and are on the verge of claiming a 2nd treble (God forbid).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 12, 2011, 09:52:31 PM
Or you can see it for what it was last night. A team that's had it's heart ripped out by a major injury crisis. It happens and you need to accept it. As for your 15 game extension of the original point, it goes without saying that nobody, not even the most optimistic amongst us, would be comfortable with the idea.

What we saw on Monday night was a combination of 3 of our back four (or both 1st and 2nd choice right backs, whichever order you place Kelly and Johnson in) plus our captain being injured, the mistakes in the market by Rafa and the financial shenanigans (which had a contributory effect towards Rafa's transfer policy) of the previous ownership.

Injury crisis is a tad dramatic for my liking but each to his own. What about ManU then who had to do without so many players throughout the season? It didn't stop them from putting some grit in here and there. I agree Rafa and the former owners are the main reason our squad is so weak, but you also got to ask more of what we have.

We have no resilience, no will, no grit, no passion unless we play a top team. That use to be the trademark of Everton, Villa, Bolton what have you. We need to take more pride from wearing the red shirt even on a cold and rainy January night in Blackpool, Birmingham or what have you. Enough already of complacement.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on April 12, 2011, 10:38:35 PM
You say it would be 4th lost if we go by that circumstance, but in truth it would not be, I mean look at us now 6th and almost on the coat tails of 4th place. So I disagree.

No Martin Manure a nowhere near an outstanding team. Their best defender - Ferdinand is a crock, their back up centre backs are crap. Evra has gone down a level. They are weak at central midfield and have no world class strikers - though Hernandez can be world class.

Manure are a very good top class team but not outstanding. There is only one outstanding team in the world at the moment - Barcelona.

Most good teams after what we have been through this season would not be fighting for a european place at this time, they be between 10th - 15th. I truly don't think you realise what those muppets H&G did to us and you continually thinking it was Rafa is absolutely ridiculous.

What is more ridiculous is you think Hodgson is a good manager at the top level - he isn't. He spent a good £10m in transfer fees in Poulsen, Konchesky and Jones. You think we will get that back? Dear me we'd be lucky to get half that for that shine-a-light.

The players we are looking to bring in and I will mention them to you martin:- If Reina does go we will look to get in Hugo Lloris from Lyon. Jose Enrique, Gary Cahill, Scott Dann, Adam, Young, Hazard and Sanchez - but to name a few.

If we can get 2 or 3 on that list plus the likes of Marveaux who is banked to be here next season, we will be a lot stronger, physically and mentally.

It is good times for us Martin, it really is. You have to take a leap of faith mate and believe in what Kenny, Commoli and NESV are doing.

We are in an evolution process and we are in our embryonic stage at the moment. But we are in for a busy summer and we will be fighting next season.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 12, 2011, 11:31:50 PM
So basically the sun always shines over Old Trafford and the dark skies will forever hang over Anfield.

The Mancs have had stability of management and the cash to make the difference when they've needed it.
With that sort of continuity you'd expect them to fair better with injuries.

As for 'hanging onto' Masch and Xabi, would unhappy players really give you the fight and resilience you're seeking and at what point did we have said qualities and when in your opinion were they lost, because in previous posts you've alluded to the fact that it's been a very long time since you saw such qualities in any Liverpool team.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 13, 2011, 09:20:44 AM
You say it would be 4th lost if we go by that circumstance, but in truth it would not be, I mean look at us now 6th and almost on the coat tails of 4th place. So I disagree.

It ain't gonna get better than 6th Ed.

No Martin Manure a nowhere near an outstanding team. Their best defender - Ferdinand is a crock, their back up centre backs are crap. Evra has gone down a level. They are weak at central midfield and have no world class strikers - though Hernandez can be world class.

So we're a fantastic side when finishing runner's up, while ManU isn't an outstanding team despite walking the league, reaching the semis in both the Cup and the CL. Again, what more can a team do to be outstanding?


Manure are a very good top class team but not outstanding. There is only one outstanding team in the world at the moment - Barcelona.

So if RM reach the final, will Barca still be the only outstanding team in the world?

Most good teams after what we have been through this season would not be fighting for a european place at this time, they be between 10th - 15th. I truly don't think you realise what those muppets H&G did to us and you continually thinking it was Rafa is absolutely ridiculous.

So Henry was equally ridiculous when he came out last weak pointing the finger at Rafa? And that's the man you say will lead us to glory? You have to forgive me for thinking your line of reasoning is a tad flawed.

What is more ridiculous is you think Hodgson is a good manager at the top level - he isn't. He spent a good £10m in transfer fees in Poulsen, Konchesky and Jones. You think we will get that back? Dear me we'd be lucky to get half that for that shine-a-light.

First of all, I never said he is a good manager, only he deserved more than 6 games before screaming for his removal. So what he spent 10 million? Funny you don't mention Meireles. Funny you don't mention the near 40 million Rafa spent on Johnson and Acuilani. Funny you don't mention the Josemi's, Krompkamp's of the footballing world Rafa never ended bring in to this club. How much did Poulsen cost?

The players we are looking to bring in and I will mention them to you martin:- If Reina does go we will look to get in Hugo Lloris from Lyon. Jose Enrique, Gary Cahill, Scott Dann, Adam, Young, Hazard and Sanchez - but to name a few.

Too bad it aint Championship Manager, I'm sure you'd have us win no. 19 in no time.

If we can get 2 or 3 on that list plus the likes of Marveaux who is banked to be here next season, we will be a lot stronger, physically and mentally.

Ed, how many times haven't we put our faith in unproven players and come out hugely disappointed? When will you ever learn?

It is good times for us Martin, it really is. You have to take a leap of faith mate and believe in what Kenny, Commoli and NESV are doing.

Me too reckon it's good times. We only differ in our view on how far beyond this club has fallen and how great the task ahead of us is. I do have faith in Kenny, Comolli and Henry, but I also realise the damage done by GH and Rafa.

We are in an evolution process and we are in our embryonic stage at the moment. But we are in for a busy summer and we will be fighting next season.

For 5th, at best. Agreed.

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 13, 2011, 09:27:58 AM
So basically the sun always shines over Old Trafford and the dark skies will forever hang over Anfield.

The Mancs have had stability of management and the cash to make the difference when they've needed it.
With that sort of continuity you'd expect them to fair better with injuries.

As for 'hanging onto' Masch and Xabi, would unhappy players really give you the fight and resilience you're seeking and at what point did we have said qualities and when in your opinion were they lost, because in previous posts you've alluded to the fact that it's been a very long time since you saw such qualities in any Liverpool team.

Yes, the Mancs have the stability that once used to be our trademark which saw us dominate the game for almost 3 decades. That stability isn't re-erected by signing a flashy player here and there. It requires an ideology, a stance, an idea what it means to be a Liverpool player. Neither GH nor Rafa ever realised this. Kenny knows the value of this and hopefully he'll be able to resurrect pride and passion at Anfield.

Xabi was bullied by the inhuman Rafa who held a grudge towards him for missing a game to attend the birth of his son. I genuinely believe Alonso when he said last week LFC and the memories of the city will always be close to him. It's just that SOB Rafa who forced him to leave. Masch is a different story, he's just a selfish and ungrateful cnut.

I maintain that Alonso, besides Stevie, is by far the best CM I've had the privelige to watch play in a red shirt since the heydays of Barnes, Beardsly and Kenny. Too bad one man was allowed to bully him out of this club to make way for word-class Barry.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 13, 2011, 10:52:33 PM
how many times haven't we put our faith in unproven players and come out hugely disappointed? When will you ever learn?
so you don't want unproven players.  You want the finished article (and the price tag that goes with it).  Oddly, your team Man Utd bring in unproven lads like Ronaldo, Vidic or Nani, and do quite well.

bringing in fancy players with a hefty price tag isn't the answer to our questions
now are saying that bringing in top players with a big price tag is NOT the answer.  Friggen ell - make up your mind.


Xabi was bullied by the inhuman Rafa who held a grudge towards him for missing a game to attend the birth of his son. I genuinely believe Alonso when he said last week LFC and the memories of the city will always be close to him. It's just that SOB Rafa who forced him to leave.
the summer that Rafa was looking to offload Alonso, the lad had been very poor.  And he has not been exactly pulling up trees since he returned to Spain.


We will not challenge for top 4 next season for the simple reason it doesn't matter what playes we bring in. That has little or nothing to do with it.

so now, let me put this all together.

You don't want to bring in fancy Dans; you don't want players with big price tags; though you don't want players that are unproven brought in.....and now you say it doesn't matter who the hell we bring in.

Friggen ell, my head is sore.   :-\



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 14, 2011, 06:30:56 AM
How mature, dude. Why do you even bother? True, you don't have to agree with me. Hell you can dislike me and what I say all you like. But to deliberately twist every word and though I express is just plain boring.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 14, 2011, 03:04:31 PM
on the contrary Martin - why do YOU even bother. 

it's patently obvious that everybody else in here disagrees with you - and yet you persist in ploughing your lone furrow.

your failure to listen or absorb the thoughts of others - many of whom have been following the reds for a lot longer than you, have more knowledge of the game, and who actually have attended anfield - is staggeringly arrogant.

you are arguably not a supporter at all.  You always find fault with everything and everybody at Liverpool FC. 

you are ultra negative (personally, I suspect that you are a troll OR ELSE have a medical condition).
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 14, 2011, 05:05:09 PM
You don't know the first thing about me. Anyroad, I don't want this discussion to be about me as that is quite irrelevant to the discussion. If it pleases you, I have been to Anfield more than once. Am I a better "fan" now? Am I a more respectable fan to you if I tell you I once  even attended a HJC-cup and supported the cause at the party after the cup despite being on the dole and hardly could pay my rent? Do I even get a gold star if I tell you that night was unforgettable and meeting and talking to Annie Williams touched me deep inside? I don't question your loyalty or love for the club despite thinking some of your opinions are difficult to take on board, so why is it so important to you?

It hurts when LFC lose, it hurts to see us going in the wrong direction (tho I have a feeling things are slowly changing for the better since October). I'm not ultranegative that's just a sort of tactics rightwing debaters use as they never really have anything substantial or thoughtful to say. So what? I don't agree with your or possibly anyone in this forum about how far beyond we've slipped under GH, Rafa and G & H. What's the problem with that? I was right about GH over 2 years before he got the sack and I was right about Rafa about 2 years before he too got the sack. It's not a "I told you so" remark, it's actually evidence I'm not as negative as you say I am but rather realistic about this club.

Please, counter my arguments or keep your thoughts to yourself. It doesn't really fit you as I think you're a terrefic bloke I'd love to have a pint or 4 together with.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ed on April 14, 2011, 06:47:22 PM
Jesus, it's a very simple world. We need two things an announcement on the manager & goalkeeper! That's it! The rest is just pre-season!!
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: the dude abides on April 14, 2011, 07:44:38 PM
Please, counter my arguments or keep your thoughts to yourself. It doesn't really fit you as I think you're a terrefic bloke I'd love to have a pint or 4 together with.

sharing alcoholic beverage sounds good, Martin.  We should do that sometime.  Thanks for the kind words.

maybe you do not realise. but you come across as very very negative.  Heck, I am negative at times too - my views on Gerrard, for example, have to be tempered at times, because I know some others get upset when I say too much on that score. 

But one has to be generally positive about the club (and life in general), or else what is the point.

Yes, re Houllier, I said the same as you.  Those final 2 years the game was up.  His negative football was taking the club nowhere.  He was also hard to listen to, or like......endless nutty sermons, that were always self-serving.

As for Rafa, he was the best manager at the club since Paisely  IMHO.

Sacking Rafa was madness.  Though he did need someone like Packa Punch for talent spotting....and he did need a few private words about stop getting involved in club politics.  Airing dirty linen in public is not the Liverpool way.  He performed awesomely tho, given the tiny net spend that he had for a major club.

But Houllier and Benitez won trophies for the club.  Look at clubs like arsenal and man city, who are winning fig-leaf all.  How hard must that be to take.

Anyways, I won't say much more, coz I am saving my ideas for a major post, on my end of season report.  I don't want to unleash or dilute my can of worms too soon. 

But take my advice - take on board what others here are saying.  Be positive in your general outlook.  We had an awful first half of the season.  We could have been fighting relegation right now.  Instead, we will finish in the top 6. 



Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Edward224 on April 17, 2011, 07:39:08 PM
Flanagan, Spearing and Robinson were all awesome. Robinson ate Walcott for lunch.

I didn't think Spearing had this level of ability that he showed today in his locker. If he continues this up, then we don't need Charlie Adam in the summer.

We now have great depth at the right back position. Johnson, Kelly and Flanagan. Flanagan doing so well hopefully means Kelly gets a chance in his natural position of centre back. Jack Robinson in 90 mins has already proven to be better than Paul Konchesky, so he is the perfect back up to whoever we buy in the summer for the left back spot.

Lucas was awesome today absolutely magnificent. He is moving up a level now, hopefully he stays there and eventually even goes onto a further level.

But our youth development is bearing fruit all of a sudden which is good to see.

Our back line in 3 - 5 years time could be an all youth system back line.

Flanagan--------Coady/Wisdom-------Kelly---------Robinson

Coady and Wisdom are 2 centre backs currently in our youth squad who look good.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Tes on April 19, 2011, 12:57:23 AM

Our back line in 3 - 5 years time could be an all youth system back line.

Flanagan--------Coady/Wisdom-------Kelly---------Robinson


Dreamtime. I agree with you on Coady and Wisdom, Coady especially.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 23, 2011, 10:34:38 AM
sharing alcoholic beverage sounds good, Martin.  We should do that sometime.  Thanks for the kind words.

maybe you do not realise. but you come across as very very negative.  Heck, I am negative at times too - my views on Gerrard, for example, have to be tempered at times, because I know some others get upset when I say too much on that score. 

But one has to be generally positive about the club (and life in general), or else what is the point.

Yes, re Houllier, I said the same as you.  Those final 2 years the game was up.  His negative football was taking the club nowhere.  He was also hard to listen to, or like......endless nutty sermons, that were always self-serving.

As for Rafa, he was the best manager at the club since Paisely  IMHO.

Sacking Rafa was madness.  Though he did need someone like Packa Punch for talent spotting....and he did need a few private words about stop getting involved in club politics.  Airing dirty linen in public is not the Liverpool way.  He performed awesomely tho, given the tiny net spend that he had for a major club.

But Houllier and Benitez won trophies for the club.  Look at clubs like arsenal and man city, who are winning fig-leaf all.  How hard must that be to take.

Anyways, I won't say much more, coz I am saving my ideas for a major post, on my end of season report.  I don't want to unleash or dilute my can of worms too soon. 

But take my advice - take on board what others here are saying.  Be positive in your general outlook.  We had an awful first half of the season.  We could have been fighting relegation right now.  Instead, we will finish in the top 6.

Been off skiing up north for a week hence the late reply.

I do apologize for venting frustration and anger on here after what I often find unacceptable performances. I'll try to do better. In any case I never ment to be disrespectful or arrogant, altho I understand why you think I have been. I'll hold you to those pints one of these days.

Missed the Arsenal game unfortunately but gather Kenny was pleased with our fighting spirit.

My neighbour just stopped by to tell me his daughter is making her Anfield debut today. I told him she's gonna have a brilliant time and besides having difficulties keeping track of the scouse she's at the best of places. It's hard when you go on your own the first time knowing nobody but it helps it's the city of Liverpool you're going to, I told him.

Liverpool 3 - 1 Brummies.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 23, 2011, 11:32:02 AM
Hi Martin,

Nice to hear your change of attitude. Have a virtual pint on me.   :-*

I'm sure we will beat the Birmingham jinx today. We haven't beaten them at Anfield since 2003 apparently. I hope your neighbour's daughter enjoys herself!  ;)

Prediction, 2-0 to the Reds.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 23, 2011, 04:59:13 PM
5-0!!! Maxi hat-trick. Tremendous performance and looking forward to watching MoTD tonight.  ;D

And Spurs drop 2 points at home to Roy's new team. Not a bad Saturday. Pity the Toffees couldn't hold out for another 10 mins but you can't have everything!  :D

I bet your neighbour's daughter enjoyed herself Martin.
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Kopite999 on April 23, 2011, 08:43:02 PM
I would say Birmingham were poor BUT i thought the same when we played Man City. So this cant be a coincidence surely. We were very good. Quick passing and not giving the other team time to breathe is really paying off.  And when we counter we're doing so at speed and in numbers. Sometimes it really is a simple game but didnt Woy make it feel so different.

Good times
Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Martinmarx on April 24, 2011, 01:39:50 AM
5-0!!! Maxi hat-trick. Tremendous performance and looking forward to watching MoTD tonight.  ;D

And Spurs drop 2 points at home to Roy's new team. Not a bad Saturday. Pity the Toffees couldn't hold out for another 10 mins but you can't have everything!  :D

I bet your neighbour's daughter enjoyed herself Martin.

And if she didn't I'll give her a good hiding because that was a truly brilliant display. I was a tad nervous we'd go down the same old route of handing over the initiative to Brummies upon scoring the opener. But there's a new touch to the team Kenny's slowly building. There's belief, passion and pride. + a great will to work for each other. You really can tell how desperate Suarez is to get a goal yet he set up Maxi beautifully to allow him to complete his hat-trick. You'd have to forgive me for thinking of words like Liverpool and way.

I don't mean to be negative or critical. Let it be known I am very very impressed by both Robinson and Flanagan. Still we ought to remember they showed a couple of times they still have a lot to learn and a better team would no doubt have taken advantage of that fact.

That's 11 goals in our last 3 home games and against quite some opposition (I don't consider Brummies strong opposition but given our recent history against them an'all...). I don't mean to jinx things but I really, really think we're able to win our finishing 4 games. That'd grant us 64 points. City stand on 56 with 6 games to play so clinching 4th seems quite a stretch if you ask me. Spurs' more than catchable tho. Lets say they beat Birmingham and Blackpool at home, draw against City away and lose against us and Chelsea. That'll see them finish on 63 points. So in my mind there's every chance we'll finish 5th which, in my book, is better than I ever thought a few months back.

Finally, I was very pleased to see three of the goals coming from rebounds. That's a great indication this team's doing well on many levels.

Despite Maxi's hat-trick I don't want to single out a particular player but you have to admire the new born Kuijt and his will to work for the team and the club.

Bring on Newcy!

Title: Re: Commentary on the games through the season....
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on April 24, 2011, 11:27:21 AM