Anfield Road - Liverpool FC Forum

Football and lesser sports => Liverpool FC, football, sport => Topic started by: the dude abides on April 07, 2012, 11:05:57 PM

Title: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 07, 2012, 11:05:57 PM
okay, a thread on who might be our new manager.

Within Britain, my two are Benitez or O'Neill.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 07, 2012, 11:09:39 PM
an interesting article I spotted today on a Wycombe player, Paul Hyde, and much mention of Martin O'Neill in it. 

WANDERING DOWN MEMORY LANE
Posted on: Wed 28 Mar 2012

In a new series tracking ex-players and reliving their Wycombe Wanderers memories, Craig Woods delves into the careers of some of the names who shaped the club's history.
 
Paul Hyde

As part of Martin O'Neill's golden era Paul Hyde, or Hydey to those chanting his name on the Adams Park terrace, was an ever present rock who made Premier League saves even in the days of non-league football. In fact O'Neill used to tell Hydey frequently that 'had we been playing Real Madrid you would've saved all five of those today pal, but because it was Colchester you let all five in'. It was part of the mind games that drove Hyde and the rest of the squad to the successes they enjoyed. The former shot-stopper reminisces:

"We were on the way back from Macclesfield once having lost for the first time that season and the lads were all having a drink and playing some cards. Martin walked down the aisle and said 'no drinking, and if you're going to talk, talk about football'.

"Being the new guy on the block I piped up with 'you're out of order boss, we all sulk differently, and tomorrow I'll be miserable with the wife and read every paper there is from the minute I wake up to the minute I go to bed hoping that the result would change. I could tell you every goal scorer in every game.' Martin just stared for a while before calmly saying 'fair enough fellas, get back to your card game'.

(http://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/javaImages/20/a8/0,,10430%7E10659872,00.jpg)

"A few weeks later we were travelling back on the bus and Martin comes to me totally out of the blue and says 'Hydey, last week Morecambe played Runcorn. What was the score and who were the scorers? (for the record, I got it right!)'."

The affection for Martin O'Neill is always apparent when talking to one of his team and it was the Northern Irishman that rekindled a love of the game for the goalkeeper who nearly took a very different career path.

"At 15 I was playing county table tennis. I'd been disillusioned with football because of the big jump between senior men's football and boys football.

(http://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/javaImages/e0/a7/0,,10430%7E10659808,00.jpg)

(http://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/javaImages/21/a8/0,,10430%7E10659873,00.jpg)

"That year I was picked up by Hillingdon Borough Football Club where I played 300 plus games in the Southern League and had trials with Crystal Palace and Fulham reserves.

"At the time I was a bit of a mad dog and was always first to the bar. I got kicked out of Fulham for that. I remember I went out drinking with Ray Houghton once. All of a sudden I hear a shout 'Hydey, the gaffer's coming' and we both legged it our separate ways. Of course I ran straight into Malky McDonald (then Fulham boss) and Ray ran clear. He went on to an illustrious career and I never got invited back!

"At 19 I signed for my local club, Hayes Football Club in the Ryman Premier League, where I played 450 games. It was one sodden evening at Hayes, in proper mud, when a guy called Martin O'Neill walked through the gates. He was going to buy a left-back called Gary Keen, but he ended up buying me.

"He called me up after and said would you be interested and I said 'of course I would'. Wycombe had just won the FA Trophy and I needed a change after eight years at Hayes. I remember asking 'do you supply your goalkeepers with goalie gloves?' and Martin said 'I would do if they could catch a ball. But I tell you what, for you, I'll buy some gloves.' That was all I needed to hear!"

And so Hydey became part of a squad that was to drive Wycombe Wanderers up to the realms of Football League status and within a whisker of making the Division Two (now League 1 play-offs) at the first attempt. Hyde maintains it was a run pioneered by a man who knew how to get the best out of every individual.

"Martin always knew the right thing to say. One time he came into the dressing room and commented 'you know, some lads in here I absolutely admire, others I totally despise.' Then he turned his back, walked out and said, 'have a good weekend lads'. And that was it! He'd be out the door and everyone would be left wondering who he was talking about! He'd always let you prepare how you wanted to though. If Simon Garner wanted a fag before a game then that was fine, so long as he performed."

One of the club's finest achievements in that run was a day no supporter will ever forget at Wembley in the 1994 play-off final against Preston North End. For Hydey, however the day holds barely any memory whatsoever after a viral infection left him flailing on the ropes throughout the whole period leading up to the game.

"I'd been in quarantine the week before and had lost a stone in weight, hadn't eaten a thing. When I woke up on the day of the final Martin made me have a huge breakfast as a test of my health. I remember Keith Scott and Jason Cousins sitting next to me at the breakfast table and they kept taking stuff off my plate to make sure that I could play.

Paul Hyde
Hyde during his playing days

"Having passed that I then got called out for a fitness test. Martin literally threw a ball at me three or four times to catch, after which he said, 'right you're fit.' I don't remember much of the day at all. At half-time they found me asleep in a toilet cubicle in the Wembley changing rooms and threw ice down my neck. I could barely kick a ball past the penalty area I was so weak. During the celebrations at Adams Park I looked at a bottle of beer and decided home was the best place for me. That was it for two weeks, bed ridden."

Hydey maintains that was the day he earned his spurs with O'Neill and the experience was due to serve him well when a whole new era swept in at Adams Park and changed things for the worse.

Following O'Neill's departure, the appointment of Alan Smith was to signal the end for many of the squad who had bought such success to the club.

"We trained at Bisham Abbey for the first time under Smith and his opening line was 'right lads, you all know me, but I don't know you. I've worked with the likes of (Ian) Wright and (Mark) Bright, and got into the semi-finals of both cups to which Glyn Creaser joked 'yeah and got them relegated.' That was the end of Glyn."

Hydey, who beams with pride of his time at Wycombe, is adamant Smith tried to end his career after the former Palace boss struggled to win over the popularity of the Wanderers crowd.

"He didn't like me because I, alongside many other players, were more popular around the place than him. We had a fantastic family club and he wanted it to be allabout him. He told me I wouldn't be there at the end of the season then threatened that if I put in a transfer request I'd never play for the club again. Sadly that is what happened. Whilst still at the club, but not playing, there were days when he'd tell a coach just to make me run to a tree and back all day. I asked the PFA for advice and they told me just to do what he asked."

Hyde eventually found reprieve under former boss O'Neill, who signed him for his new club Leicester City. Despite a step up the Football League ladder, the Wycombe man through and through found it hard to say his goodbyes.

"I don't think I was in the right frame of mind for that move to be honest. I was devastated to leave Wycombe. This was my home, this was where I loved playing football. I sat on the bench at Leicester and occasionally played in front of big crowds in the reserves. After a while I took some ill advice from one of the coaching staff to join Leyton Orient on a more secure contract. I took it and in doing so let Martin down. I don't think he ever forgave me that, and I apologise sincerely to him now."

His time at Leyton Orient was ended by a former Wycombe forward John Williams, who collided badly with Hyde to break his rib and his leg, with doctors telling the goalkeeper he'd never play again.

But Hydey fought back to feature for Dover Athletic, where he played a further 350 games as player, captain and coach. He also became the joint oldest keeper to play in the FA Cup last year for Whitstable Town. Full time he now takes charge as a P.E teacher whilst training to do his FIFA A licence coaching badges. But his time with Wycombe, and namely his part in a golden era, will never leave himor his family.

"This was my club and every player was a best mate because we were a band of brothers - we stuck together through everything. It became our life.

"The best thing that happened in my football career was meeting and playing under Martin O'Neill. The worst thing that happened in my football career was meeting and playing under Alan Smith."

http://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/page/LatestNews/0,,10430~2698199,00.html (http://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/page/LatestNews/0,,10430%7E2698199,00.html)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 08, 2012, 12:06:02 AM
okay, a thread on who might be our new manager.

Within Britain, my two are Benitez or O'Neill.

O'Neill would probably restore Carroll to being the 'Beast of Gallowgate' and then all we'd hear was how right the King was to sign him. For that reason, I'm out.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 08, 2012, 12:52:37 AM
I have been a fan of Martin O'Neill for near 20 years.

He would have restored us to our previous glories, I reckon.

His passion, and intelligence, allied with the passionate Liverpool crowd, would have turned us into the unbeatables.

He could have had the freedom of the city.  He would have had fans eating out of his hand.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on April 08, 2012, 02:27:32 AM
It is, of course, hard not to like such a nice man as O'Neill. At the same time there's 2 things I wonder:
1) Would he be able to take on a "big" club like ours?
2) Innit like a decade too late to sign him.

My shortlist would be:

1) Brendan Rodgers
2) Laurent Blanc
3) "Loco"

There you have it in black and white!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 08, 2012, 03:27:28 AM
It is, of course, hard not to like such a nice man as O'Neill. At the same time there's 2 things I wonder:
1) Would he be able to take on a "big" club like ours?
2) Innit like a decade too late to sign him.

Martin has excelled at every club he has ever been at.  He has always over-achieved......even when having only limited resources.  As for his age.....he is 60 (but a very young 60).  Ideally mid 50s would be best....but Martin could easily give us ten years.  Managers are like fine wine.....best with age behind them.

My shortlist would be:

1) Brendan Rodgers
2) Laurent Blanc
3) "Loco"

There you have it in black and white!

I suspect that we will be returning to zis list, Pike.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on April 08, 2012, 10:35:43 AM
I suspect that we will be returning to zis list, Pike.

For the record, I estimate the probability our next manager will be a name from that list to be some 0,0001 %. I so wish the owners could see the light the way I can. ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 08, 2012, 12:11:16 PM
It is, of course, hard not to like such a nice man as O'Neill. At the same time there's 2 things I wonder:
1) Would he be able to take on a "big" club like ours?
2) Innit like a decade too late to sign him.

My shortlist would be:

1) Brendan Rodgers
2) Laurent Blanc
3) "Loco"

There you have it in black and white!

A more appropriate colour methinks.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on April 08, 2012, 11:56:32 PM
A more appropriate colour methinks.

Could you please elaborate on that one a bit?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 09, 2012, 11:41:46 AM
Could you please elaborate on that one a bit?

I thought red would be more appropriate than black.  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on April 09, 2012, 12:02:43 PM
I thought red would be more appropriate than black.  ;D

Of course!

 ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 09, 2012, 10:25:46 PM
tis funny, but I often go in on a Saturday evening and watch the reaction to the latest defeat, in RAWK (redandwhitekop).    I posted there for years.....til I was banned for life.

Anyroads, if you as much as mention Benitez coming back, you are risking a ban.

And any mention of the King possibly not being very good, is also a dangerous pre-occupation.

They all have their heads in the sand.  Funny (if sad) to behold.

Any of you post there, or in any of the other forums?  Or usenet?  What is the general consensus in these other forums?   Did they spot Dallglish's problems as early as we did in here (after 5 or 6 games of this season)?



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 09, 2012, 10:41:18 PM
tis funny, but I often go in on a Saturday evening and watch the reaction to the latest defeat, in RAWK (redandwhitekop).    I posted there for years.....til I was banned for life.

Anyroads, if you as much as mention Benitez coming back, you are risking a ban.

And any mention of the King possibly not being very good, is also a dangerous pre-occupation.

They all have their heads in the sand.  Funny (if sad) to behold.

Any of you post there, or in any of the other forums?  Or usenet?  What is the general consensus in these other forums?   Did they spot Dallglish's problems as early as we did in here (after 5 or 6 games of this season)?

RAWK goes into meltdown over anything and everything and the amount of people that get banned and threads that get locked almost renders it pointless as a forum for discussion.
TLW has a large share of anti-Rafa-lites, most of whom, funnily enough, seem to be staunch defenders of Dalglish.

What I never understand is what basis or evidence are people using to think that Kenny will 'put it right' when they are saying he needs to be given another season to 'put it right'. Surely if he knew what was wrong, he would also know what was right and would do/have done the latter rather than having done the former. So now he knows he's signed the wrong players, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. How do we know his 'foresight' won't be equally off beam this Summer also?

There are quite a few that have pointed out the problems in a very constructive way but even that gets shouted down. Our results are not even something Hodgson managed to achieve but the 'improved' style of football seems to sway some. For others he's King Kenny and that's enough.

It's scary how similar things are to his time at Newcastle. He did well last season with the squad he inherited, same as at Newcastle. It's once he starts putting his stamp on things that they start to unravel somewhat.
Again, 'his' Newcastle team also had problems scoring goals.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 09, 2012, 10:59:21 PM
What I never understand is what basis or evidence are people using to think that Kenny will 'put it right' when they are saying he needs to be given another season to 'put it right'. Surely if he knew what was wrong, he would also know what was right and would do/have done the latter rather than having done the former. So now he knows he's signed the wrong players, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. How do we know his 'foresight' won't be equally off beam this Summer also?

yes, I noticed very early on, that it was deja vu, all over again  (re kenny's time at newcastle, and his second coming at anfield).

as you say, the further he gets from good teams, i.e. as he tries to put his stamp on a new team, buying and selling, and tactically.....the more it turns to poo.

to be honest, kenny is not fit to lead any premiership side......indeed, i think without massive funds, he is useless at any level, professionally.

yes.....the sycophants refuse to accept the fault could be kenny's....and now that kenny has spotted that there was a problem with new players, he will suddenly not make the same mistakes in the next transfer window.   FFS   It's laughable.   ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on April 10, 2012, 08:20:18 AM
It's quite scary how some fellow fans have been diverted by us winning the Carling Cup. When i mention that Kenny needs to step down and take an ambassador role, they almost shout 'blasphemy!' 
I think the FSG sell up started off as an April Fool's (there was an 'Andy Carroll cuts his hair off' one too - which i was hoping beyond hope that was true.
But FSG are businessmen, they must be reading the forums and listening out, and they surely must be picking up on how it's not working with Kenny. Loyalty to Kenny can only go so far. I for one don't want him (or Comolli) spending any money in the summer. Can you imagine what Fergie, let alone Rafa (1.5 for maxi etc) would have got for that lot...
Unless businessmen completely lose their wits when they get involved in Football, I'm assuming that hard decisions will be taken in the summer.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 10, 2012, 07:06:58 PM
It's sad how selective some fans' memories can be. They use the trophies he won with us and the league title with Blackburn as some sort of evidence that he 'is the man'. Convenient how his most recent foray in the managerial chair at Newcastle is forgotten, and they don't question why no chairman, since he left Newcastle, has taken the chance to employ him as their manager.

Also the context and circumstances of his Blackburn reign have to be taken into consideration and questions asked as to why he didn't remain as manager to defend the title and take Blackburn into the European Cup. Something he missed out on doing with us.

There's no doubting his past service to the club and his love of the club and the people of Merseyside.

Even when Arsenal fans have wanted Wenger replaced, I don't remember George Graham's name being shouted too loudly. He did afterall win them a trophy or six in less than 9 seasons.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 10, 2012, 08:00:54 PM
Loyalty to Kenny can only go so far. I for one don't want him (or Comolli) spending any money in the summer. Can you imagine what Fergie, let alone Rafa (1.5 for maxi etc) would have got for that lot...

like you barticus, I would vomit with rage, if I thought Dalglish and Comolli were allowed to spend another chunk of good money this summer.

we are living through strange uncharted days and weeks.  Anyone else would have been told privately that they were out the door come May time.  But Dalglish is not your usual guy....thus, it is almost heresy to suggest that the King is full of tripe and useless.

the yanks are suffering from not installing a top chief executive last year.  Everything else has dripped down from that initial error.   Our absent owners are now flying blind.  They are in a storm right now and have no idea what to do, or who to turn to.   


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 10, 2012, 08:07:03 PM
It's sad how selective some fans' memories can be. They use the trophies he won with us and the league title with Blackburn as some sort of evidence that he 'is the man'. Convenient how his most recent foray in the managerial chair at Newcastle is forgotten, and they don't question why no chairman, since he left Newcastle, has taken the chance to employ him as their manager.

Also the context and circumstances of his Blackburn reign have to be taken into consideration and questions asked as to why he didn't remain as manager to defend the title and take Blackburn into the European Cup. Something he missed out on doing with us.

There's no doubting his past service to the club and his love of the club and the people of Merseyside.

Even when Arsenal fans have wanted Wenger replaced, I don't remember George Graham's name being shouted too loudly. He did afterall win them a trophy or six in less than 9 seasons.

good points, Tes.

the anfield crowd have been given far too much credence in the past couple of decades.  There are as many f.uk.wits in our fanbase, as there are at any other club.     

During our era of domination, our chief executive ruled the roost.  Responsible management and decision making from the top is essential.

as for kenny at blackburn.....he spent a fortune and created an awful side.   David Batty, wow, I wouldn;t have him in my pub team.  Shearer and Sutton were what won him the title....even then, they stumbled over the line when Utd messed up in London, on that final day of the season.

i actually had a look the other night, at that blackburn squad, from 1995 title winning year.  It's fair to say that none of the lads, beyond shearer, pulled up any trees after that season.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 10, 2012, 08:13:25 PM
It's just so odd that they buy into a sport, which, by their own admission they know nothing about, and they don't as far as we know, surround themselves with the people to make up for that lack of knowledge.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 10, 2012, 09:00:58 PM
It's just so odd that they buy into a sport, which, by their own admission they know nothing about, and they don't as far as we know, surround themselves with the people to make up for that lack of knowledge.

in fairness, they probably thought they had installed the best people.

but they needed to listen to people who knew the score.  Should have given them your, or my, telephone number.     :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 11, 2012, 07:15:39 PM
(http://imgstore.cms.edomainhosting.co.uk/thumb_473/201204/3bb9a3525e4c5ee5f36e36967cd79750.jpg)
Liverpool’s last-gasp 3-2 win over relegation strugglers Blackburn on Tuesday night has seen the pressure lifted off beleaguered manager Kenny Dalglish for the time being, but it must be only a matter of time before he’s given the boot given the Reds’ poor league position.

Liverpool are currently eighth in the table with five games to go and a point behind city rivals Everton. That is a shocking state of affairs when you consider how much the Reds have splashed out on top-class players in the past 18 months, compared to Everton who literally don’t have two pennies to rub together.

With the amount of cash Liverpool’s American owners have pumped into the club, qualification for the Champions League next season was a minimum requirement. Instead the Anfield side are 13 points off 4th place and without a cat in hell’s chance of catching up Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea or Newcastle.

As for challenging for the title – which must have been on the owners’ radar given the Red Sox level of spending on Andy Carroll, Luis Suarez, Charlie Adam, Stewart Downing, Jordan Henderson and Jose Enrique to join world-class players like Steven Gerrard, Pepe Reina, Dirk Kuyt and Jamie Carragher at the club – Liverpool are, look away now if you are a fan, “only” 33 points off Manchester United at present.

Even if the Reds win the FA Cup this season – for which they are a 3/1 shot with most bookies – I don’t think any reasonable observer could argue that Dalglish should stay beyond the summer. The league is everything and quite simply Dalglish has failed to capitalise on the great squad of players at his disposal. This is of course before you consider the embarrassment the Scot is bringing to the club with his paranoid rants about conspiracies and the shambolic way he dealt with the Suarez racism issue earlier in the season.

I strongly suspect Dalglish will walk in the summer as it’s not Liverpool’s way to sack one of their beloved sons. But I am absolutely convinced he will leave the post soon after the season has ended as everyone knows, not least the bigwigs at Anfield, that he has failed miserably as manager. Which brings us onto the question of who will replace him.

The joint-favourites with the bookies are Jose “The Special One” Mourinho and Martin O’Neill, both a top-priced 7/1 with BetVictor. Why Mourinho is one of the favourites is hard to fathom. He’s currently in charge of the biggest side in the world, doing exceptionally well there, and even if he did come back to England to manage it wouldn’t be for a club that has become an also-ran of the Premier League. Personally, I suspect he’ll take over at Manchester United when Alex Ferguson retires, but that is probably a few years off.

O’Neill, on the other hand, is too long at 7/1 and in my eyes should be the clear favourite to take over from Dalglish. Every club the Northern Irishman has managed at he’s been successful and no one in football deserves a chance to manage one of the big English clubs more than him. He was supposedly second in line the last time the Reds went scouting for a manager and if sense had prevailed he’d be at Anfield right now instead of Liverpool fans having to endure the agony of Hodgson and now Dalglish’s impotent reigns. O’Neill is the master at getting the best out of underperforming players (see Sunderland at present) and with the whole Irish / Liverpool link going on he would certainly be a very popular choice. At 7/1 he is a steal and absolutely worth getting behind with some hard-earned cash.

Next in the betting is Andre Villas-Boas at best odds of 9/1 with BetVictor. 9’s is a horrible price given his stock is currently so low after getting sacked at Chelsea only a month or so ago. There’s no doubt the Portuguese is a talented coach, but he needs to rebuild his reputation on the continent before trying his luck with another major English club. One to avoid.

Possibly the worst value bet for this market, though, is equal fourth favourite at 12/1 with SkyBet and Paddy Power – Jamie Carragher. I know Liverpool like to promote their own, but please. He has no managerial experience and the top bods will definitely want to shy away from nepotism after getting burnt with Dalglish. Plus, would any of the foreign players at Liverpool be able to understand Carragher’s team-talks given his impenetrable Scouse accent?!

Also at 12/1 is Unai Emery, the current boss of Valencia whose team is getting rave reviews in the sporting press. He’s young and talented but I have to ask myself do Liverpool want another Spanish manager after the Benitez affair went sour? Also, he hasn’t won anything yet so 12’s seems very short indeed.

Beyond the top five in the odds come the usual contenders: Rafa Benitez at 14/1 (Stan James), Didier Deschamps at 16/1 (Paddy Power), Gus Hiddink at 20/1 (SkyBet) and Frank Rijkaard at 25/1 (Paddy Power). None of them look appealing as betting propositions.

Recommended bet: Bet 2pts on Martin O’Neill to become next permanent Liverpool manager at 7/1 with BetVictor.

http://www.betasia.com/liverpool/496989/premier-league-next-permanent-liverpool-manager-betting-preview (http://www.betasia.com/liverpool/496989/premier-league-next-permanent-liverpool-manager-betting-preview)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 11, 2012, 11:39:17 PM
The usual unimaginative, short sighted bunch of names being banded about. We just need Alan Curbishley's and Alan Pardew's names in there (two for the Carra types) and the list of 'the uninspiring' is complete.

Maybe Martin's on to something with Brendan Rodgers. I still see the likes of Paul Lambert and Roberto Martinez ahead of Rodgers due to their greater experience.

If Martinez leaves Wigan at the end of the season having kept them up, I hope they sink next season and keep sinking. It would serve the Taggart loving Dave Whelan right. He ought to be pleased to finish 17th every season considering the finances and revenues. Fathead's got to be favourite for a return there.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 12, 2012, 12:02:47 AM
if we're going the brendan rodgers route, then why not actually go for someone that is winning things

e.g. the southampton boss, Nigel Adkins, is now on the brink of two straight successive promotions (they will be in the premiership come August)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 12, 2012, 12:37:45 AM
I really don't think we can trust the job to an 'up and comer'. If FFP even has any gums, nevermind teeth, if we're not back in that top four by the end of the 2013/14 season, we'll be locked out for good.

I just hope FSG are taking good advice from the right people. My worry is they wouldn't know who 'the right people' are.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 12, 2012, 01:19:11 AM
My worry is they wouldn't know who 'the right people' are.

hey, stop repeating my script!

 :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 12, 2012, 04:13:40 PM
hey, stop repeating my script!

 :D

I wonder who's work the Comolli (mutual) dismissal was?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 12, 2012, 04:24:04 PM
I wonder who's work the Comolli (mutual) dismissal was?

we could all claim - I AM SPARTICUS!

re real decision.....good question.

would it be a surprise if someone like david dein was already quietly working and advising, behind the scenes?

to sack Comolli was a big decision....and obviously from his statement, dalglish had no part in it.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 12, 2012, 04:36:52 PM
would it be a surprise if someone like david dein was already quietly working and advising, behind the scenes?


They took advice (re Comolli) of one 'of their own' in Billy Beane originally. Hopefully after nearly 18 months in soccerball, they've done a spot of networking and learned who the Billy Beanes of football are, and made the connections.

I'd be surprised to see Dein appointed as CEO, because of his age, but a board apointment would be no surprise. Henry appears to be much smarter than he looks, and I don't mean that in any disrespectful way. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 12, 2012, 05:05:52 PM
Dalglish has received a vote of confidence:

Does Damien Comolli's departure have any impact upon Kenny Dalglish's position as manager?

Absolutely not. We've got great confidence in Kenny. We feel the team is going to make strides in the future and he enjoys our full support.

From: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/tom-werner-on-comolli-decision (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/tom-werner-on-comolli-decision)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 12, 2012, 05:08:43 PM
They took advice (re Comolli) of one 'of their own' in Billy Beane originally. Hopefully after nearly 18 months in soccerball, they've done a spot of networking and learned who the Billy Beanes of football are, and made the connections.

I'd be surprised to see Dein appointed as CEO, because of his age, but a board apointment would be no surprise. Henry appears to be much smarter than he looks, and I don't mean that in any disrespectful way.

yes, hopefully they are learning......comolli was a mistake, part of the learning curve.

yes, dein could even just play an advisory role, even from london.

as for Henry being smart....i meant to say this before.  But last year, I was talking to my american friend....she is a journalist for a newspaper in Florida. She has met all the big players...she has a passion for football (and Liverpool).   She interviewed the likes of george best etc, during his playing days in the states.

Anyroads, she told me that she has met and chatted to Henry in the past.....and she was full of praise.  She says he is one smart cookie.  And she said that despite what you might read, or think, he has money to burn.  And he is very smart about achieving things.  If he turns his mind to something, he (and his associates) has all the resources needed to make it happen.  She said a lot more, but my memory is dire.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 12, 2012, 05:10:15 PM
Dalglish has received a vote of confidence:

Does Damien Comolli's departure have any impact upon Kenny Dalglish's position as manager?

Absolutely not. We've got great confidence in Kenny. We feel the team is going to make strides in the future and he enjoys our full support.

From: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/tom-werner-on-comolli-decision (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/tom-werner-on-comolli-decision)

to quote that girl from the early 60s.....with an FA Cup semi-final two days away, they would say that, wouldn;t they
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 16, 2012, 01:00:48 AM
How about replacing Kenny with Shanghai Shenhua's manager?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2128633/Nicolas-Anelka-enters-management-Shanghai-Shenhua.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2128633/Nicolas-Anelka-enters-management-Shanghai-Shenhua.html)  ;D

It follows the Arsenal blueprint, at least by association.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 23, 2012, 04:36:54 AM
story going around that Steve Clarke, our first team coach, will be leaving at the end of the season.

if true, it sounds like there will be major change at the club this summer. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on April 27, 2012, 11:35:47 PM
I've said it before, but I have a hunch about Guardiola being
our next manager.

Supposing at the end of next season, if the new players and
whoever we sign in the Summer have been blooded in Europe
via the Europa league and we've qualified for the Champions
league 2013/2014.

If we're to establish ourselves as a presence in that tournament
over the next decade then, I'd say the owners would have a guy
like him on any shortlist (particularly if he's finished his break then)?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 28, 2012, 09:58:58 PM
His 'Pako', Tito Vilanova, is taking over Barca, so I'd rather judge him without Vilanova at his side. Rijkaard hasn't done so well without Henk Ten Cate and it will be interesting to see if Guardiola fairs any better.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on April 30, 2012, 02:30:08 PM
How about Benitez and Guardiola?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 30, 2012, 09:59:00 PM
possibly a dream team, Barticus.....experience allied with youth/local current spanish league knowledge.

tho would guardiola be prepared to take a back stage.

if Liverpool were to pull off that coup, it sure would make a massive statement.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on April 30, 2012, 10:25:01 PM
possibly a dream team, Barticus.....experience allied with youth/local current spanish league knowledge.

tho would guardiola be prepared to take a back stage.

if Liverpool were to pull off that coup, it sure would make a massive statement.


Well the Spanish here are convinced that Guardiola wants a part time/not full on job at the mo after the pressures of the Barca one...most think he'll be England manager which i frown at quite a bit...
but if he wants to take the back stage ...then a Benitez/Guardiola team up might be perfect..
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on April 30, 2012, 10:28:42 PM
It would be interesting to see if Guardiola would take the job as assistant to Rafa. Maybe less pressure, a spell out of the limelight etc.

It's certainly something to ponder over.

It's doubtful it would happen but then again who knows in football.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on April 30, 2012, 10:49:58 PM
Well the Spanish here are convinced that Guardiola wants a part time/not full on job at the mo after the pressures of the Barca one...most think he'll be England manager which i frown at quite a bit...
but if he wants to take the back stage ...then a Benitez/Guardiola team up might be perfect..

like Tes, I am very doubtful it would happen.

but agreed, it could be a perfect double act.....especially since guardialoa claims that he wants less pressure and a break from the full rigours of management.



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 17, 2012, 11:36:23 AM
It didnt take long Dude but now this thread comes into play.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 17, 2012, 12:29:07 PM
FSG are apparently looking for a young manager, with title winning experience that can lead Liverpool long term.

That probably rules Roberto Martinez out. Imho I dont think hes shown enough in his managerial career to come close to getting the Liverpool managers position.

Personally I think there will be 3 or 4 candidates that FSG will consider seriously. Of the managers out there I suppose the obvious names that meet FSGs criteria would be as follows.

Jurgen Klopp is my personal preference but I dont see him leaving his Dortmund project.

Rafa Benitez will obviously be another FSG will consider but I just dont see them going back for him. And Guillem Balague confirmed Rafa has never been contacted or sounded out by the owners at any time. I just dont see it happening.

Mourinho said he would never manage Liverpool. Liverpool couldnt provide him with the transfer funds he would like either and I dont see him leaving Spain this summer.

Guardiola - Hes on a years sabbatical so rule him out.

Didier Deschamps and Frank Rikjaard come under the same category for me. They both have title winning experience but theres just something, a gut feeling that im not convinced about either.

AVB - This is a bit of an intriguing one. Hes favourite for the job and by all accounts FSG made contact in the last 2 weeks just to see if he would be receptive to a possible approach as he was apparently been lined up by Roma.  Hes won the Portuguese title with Porto. Not a major achievement but still a title none the less. Hes also won the Uefa Cup with Porto which shows he definitely has some European pedigree. The fact that he was a pupil of Bobby Robson and Jose Mourinho also cant be sniffed at.

He failed at Chelsea in the 6 months he got there but bigger more experienced managers like big Phil Scolari have been made to look like mugs by Abramovich without been given adequate time. So I would probably look on his time at Chelsea with caution but also a sense of realism to the conditions he found there.

Its going to be an interesting search and im sure none of us will agree on any one candidate. So as I say Jurgen Klopp is my first choice but there is also definitely a case for others too.   
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 17, 2012, 01:21:27 PM
If I had to chose between the two worst possible candidates I'd go for Rafa. I really really think AVB's too young for it. He's what, 2 years older than Gerrard and equal in age to Carra?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 17, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
If I had to chose between the two worst possible candidates I'd go for Rafa. I really really think AVB's too young for it. He's what, 2 years older than Gerrard and equal in age to Carra?

I dont mean to offend Martin but you already seem to be coming across negative about the candidates.

Will you be p*ssed if Brendan Rodgers doesnt get the job? AVB might be young but he also came in to the coaching game young and had some very impressive teachers along the way. Bobby Robson appointed him at a very young age.

Should age be a major issue if he has the makings of a very good manager? He did very well at both clubs in Portugal, has proved he can win things. Chelsea was a different story but its very hard to judge any of their previous managers given circumstances at the club. He also inherited an ageing club where player power was key contributor in getting managers sacked.

Phil Thompson wants Didier Deschamps and reckons we shouldnt go back for Rafa.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 17, 2012, 01:53:26 PM
Klopp has to be the obvious choice but it's doubtful he'd leave Dortmund yet, unless the challenge of returning one of football's genuine giants to the loft heights once enjoyed is simply too much to turn down.

I can't read anything into AVB's time at Chelsea due to the @ssholes that populate that dressing room and the no-sighted fool that owns them.

The interesting thing with Dortmund is the complete lack of 'names' in their team. It's exactly the approach I was hoping FSG would bring from the off.

We need to lose this 'moneyball' tag. Good players will look exactly what they are. Buying players using stats is foolish. Stats don't show context. Assists say more about other members of the team than they do about the individual for whom the stats apply.

Ability, potential for improvement, sound technique, football itelligence and understanding, appreciation of space and how to create and utilise it, awareness of team mates and opponents movement around them, strong mentality and the willingness to take on responsibility and show iniative are all better 'indicators' than mere stats and figures.

There are so many massive appointsment now required that the recruitment of players appears a distant second,

At this point in time, all I would ask of the coming season is to challenge for the top four until the final whistle of game 38. Anything above that would be an unexpected bonus.

Deschamp doesn't impress. His record is patchy and inconsistent.
Emery seems to have done OK at Valencia, especially with consistently losing his best players.
Bielsa is a favourite with a lot of people, but for all the nice football they don't achieve enough tangible results from it to say it is productive. Plenty of image but lacking in real substance.
 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 17, 2012, 01:57:01 PM
Here's one for Martin and his bandwagon of one...

Looked at the Spanish papers here today and they have major respect for Brendan Rogers and he's with the Spanish national team for their preparations for the Euros. And he speaks Spanish!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 17, 2012, 02:04:53 PM
like Juan and Tes, if it is not to be Rafa, then Klopp would be my choice.

But like we all acknowledge, he may have no interest in leaving Dortmund.

Deschamps has never inspired me.  AVB had one good year in Portugal....but the lad is a mere 34 years old.

Mancini is just nowhere near the level, to even get an interview.

O'Neill would be my other choice.

So for me, one from Rafa, Klopp or O'Neill.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Gurdeep on May 18, 2012, 08:51:16 AM
Here is the current Poll on @The Times' website.

Who should be the next Liverpool manager?

Rafael Benitiz 45.2%  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Brendan Rodgers 4.3%
Frank Rijkaard 7.9%
Roberto Martinez 10.2%
Fabio Capello 9.1%
Paul Lambert 3.8%
Andre Villas-Boas 19.4%
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Gurdeep on May 18, 2012, 08:52:41 AM
Fabio & Pep top Liverpool wanted list

Tony Barrett
Published at 12:01AM, May 18 2012

Liverpool have attempted to back up their claim that they can attract the world’s best managers by placing Pep Guardiola and Fabio Capello on a shortlist to replace Kenny Dalglish.

The former Barcelona coach and England manager appear to be unrealistic targets, with Guardiola set on taking a sabbatical and Capello apparently keen to take charge of Chelsea.

But their presence on Liverpool’s list of targets represents a statement of intent from Fenway Sports Group, the club’s owner.

The search for Dalglish’s successor began in earnest yesterday, when Liverpool received permission from Wigan Athletic to speak to Roberto Martínez and approached Swansea City seeking clearance to open talks with Brendan Rodgers.

Dave Whelan, the Wigan owner, said: “I don’t know the exact timescales of when he is due to meet with the Liverpool owners, but I will never stand in Roberto’s way.” Swansea are yet to respond to the request to speak to their manager.

The approaches came on a day when Ian Ayre, the Liverpool managing director, admitted that the appointment of Dalglish’s successor will be one of the most “critical” decisions in the club’s history, but claimed that he has no concerns about attracting one of Europe’s top managers to the role.

Liverpool have been linked with several leading managers, most notably André Villas-Boas, Jürgen Klopp and Frank de Boer, and Martínez is likely to be one of a number of candidates interviewed for the job.

Ayre ended doubts about his own future by revealing that he has signed a contract extension, an indication that the managing director is likely to be a key figure in the five-year plan laid down by John W. Henry and Tom Werner, Liverpool’s principal owners, which they hope will re-establish the club among football’s elite.

“We may have lost our way a little in terms of performances, but it is still one of the biggest clubs in the world,” said Ayre, who believes that Liverpool’s failure to reach the Champions League will not prevent them appointing a leading manager. “I still think this is one of the biggest jobs in world football.”
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 18, 2012, 10:38:57 AM
Here's one for Martin and his bandwagon of one...

Looked at the Spanish papers here today and they have major respect for Brendan Rogers and he's with the Spanish national team for their preparations for the Euros. And he speaks Spanish!

Gutted to learn he snubbed our approach.  :'(
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 18, 2012, 10:40:43 AM
I dont mean to offend Martin but you already seem to be coming across negative about the candidates.

I'm not sure who's the negative SOB of the two of us to be honest. 7-8 candidates mentioned. I have reservations about 2 of them. I don't mean to offend you Juan but WTF is the problem?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 18, 2012, 10:47:47 AM
I think it's good that we're interviewing as many people as possible. Klopp looks the business to me but whether he wants to leave Borussia Dortmund or not is another matter. If he does though he can certianly bring Robert Lewandowski with him! And if Glenn Johnson was to be sold then Lukasz Piszczek (also from Borussia would certainly be an awesome replacement).
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 18, 2012, 10:50:36 AM
Gutted to learn he snubbed our approach.  :'(

did I miss something?   8)

I failed to spot the headline:

Brendan:  Kop Off Liverpool!

akin to:

Rolf Harris Snubs Offer to Join Beatles
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 18, 2012, 10:56:35 AM
did I miss something?   8)

I failed to spot the headline:

Brendan:  Kop Off Liverpool!

akin to:

Rolf Harris Snubs Offer to Join Beatles

Lmao! You're tempting fate here dude....
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 18, 2012, 11:23:33 AM
true, Barticus.

truth be known, if we are heading down the barmy young manager route, then I would marginally prefer Rodgers over Mancini.

but on planet reality, I think our core focus is on the big names.....and these young lads are mere tadpoles that get thrown back into the river.

but I am deeply unsettled at this recruitment and selection procedure.....all aired in public.  This is most definitely not the Liverpool way of doing things. 

and for the record - my faves are Rafa, Klopp, O'Neill......Capello (always a top man, but too old by this point), and Moyes.

thinking about it again, Klopp and Kop sound as if they were made to go together!  Some great headlines possible.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 18, 2012, 11:29:30 AM
my employer, Deep Latrine Analysis, confirmed this morning that they have given permission for Liverpool to speak to me.   


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 18, 2012, 11:32:05 AM
I'm not sure who's the negative SOB of the two of us to be honest. 7-8 candidates mentioned. I have reservations about 2 of them. I don't mean to offend you Juan but WTF is the problem?

Suggesting a twice La Liga winning / European Cup winning manager and a young Uefa Cup winning manager as the worst possible candidates. Forgive me Im not sure what gave me the impression your post was being negative  ::)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 18, 2012, 11:33:31 AM
I think it's good that we're interviewing as many people as possible. Klopp looks the business to me but whether he wants to leave Borussia Dortmund or not is another matter. If he does though he can certianly bring Robert Lewandowski with him! And if Glenn Johnson was to be sold then Lukasz Piszczek (also from Borussia would certainly be an awesome replacement).

What he said  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 18, 2012, 11:47:59 AM
Suggesting a twice La Liga winning / European Cup winning manager and a young Uefa Cup winning manager as the worst possible candidates. Forgive me Im not sure what gave me the impression your post was being negative  ::)

 :D :D :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 18, 2012, 11:49:08 AM
did I miss something?   8)

I failed to spot the headline:

Brendan:  Kop Off Liverpool!

akin to:

Rolf Harris Snubs Offer to Join Beatles

Haha nice comparison Dude  :D. Very apt.

To be honest I think Rodgers was right to stay at Swansea. Why would he go for a job when its being reported that there are far more experienced managers also being lined up for interview. Turning down the approach for interview will have done his loyalty and reputation no harm.

Id say if Martinez had known there were so many others going for interview he may have gone down the same route as Rodgers or at least wouldnt have let Dave Whelan announce his candidacy to the world.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 18, 2012, 12:00:56 PM
Id say if Martinez had known there were so many others going for interview he may have gone down the same route as Rodgers or at least wouldnt have let Dave Whelan announce his candidacy to the world.

agreed, Juan.  Dave Whelan needs to shut his mouth for a change.  Then again, maybe he is deliberating setting his man up for a fall each time a big job shows up. 

Personally, I have never seen one single reason why many cite Martinex as being the next big thing.  The fact he is Spanish (and young) must play a large part in it.  Big Sam Allardyce was more successful at that age (38) and I never heard the same applause for his efforts.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 18, 2012, 12:13:01 PM
did I miss something?   8)

I failed to spot the headline:

Brendan:  Kop Off Liverpool!

akin to:

Rolf Harris Snubs Offer to Join Beatles

 ;D ;D Absolutely brilliant!!! Cheers for that one.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 18, 2012, 12:20:40 PM
agreed, Juan.  Dave Whelan needs to shut his mouth for a change.  Then again, maybe he is deliberating setting his man up for a fall each time a big job shows up. 

Personally, I have never seen one single reason why many cite Martinex as being the next big thing.  The fact he is Spanish (and young) must play a large part in it.  Big Sam Allardyce was more successful at that age (38) and I never heard the same applause for his efforts.

Dave Whelan is a great guy and a brilliant owner but agreed Dude he shouldnt be feeding the media frenzy so readily. Nor should it be his choice to air our business in the open.

Agreed on Martinez too. He has potential and hes done well to keep Wigan in the Premier League for so long. Theres a big difference between fending off relegation though and recovering the fortunes of one of the biggest clubs in the world. Personally I dont see how he could actually get the job but who knows.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 18, 2012, 05:20:57 PM
I'm sort of half expecting to see Sir Andrew Lloyd Weber pop up, on a new BBC show, How Do You Solve a Problem Like Anfield.    Or perhaps: "Let's Make Sure They Never Walk Alone"   Or possibly:   "Though Your Dreams Be Tossed and Blown"

Then, just like now, we could invite every man and his dog, to publically view our recruitment and selection exercise.

Hey, why not hold national auditions.  Every town hall and community centre across Britain could be deployed.

And in the finals, we could have eight contenders, like we have now......and vote the weakest off each week.  We could use 0898 numbers (for voters) and make the club a pretty packet over two months of the summer.

Hey, ok, it's not the Liverpool Way.....but it's 2012.  We have to get with the times.

Two yanks in distress need help.  They helped us against the hun, in two world wars.  As a nation, we can step up and give them guidance.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 18, 2012, 06:11:13 PM
I'm sort of half expecting to see Sir Andrew Lloyd Weber pop up, on a new BBC show, How Do You Solve a Problem Like Anfield.    Or perhaps: "Let's Make Sure They Never Walk Alone"   Or possibly:   "Though Your Dreams Be Tossed and Blown"

Then, just like now, we could invite every man and his dog, to publically view our recruitment and selection exercise.

Hey, why not hold national auditions.  Every town hall and community centre across Britain could be deployed.


Now you're talking dude!

Stuart Hall on 'It's a kop out!'
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 18, 2012, 06:23:01 PM
Now you're talking dude!

Stuart Hall on 'It's a kop out!'

Stuart Hall presents, It's a Kop Out!!!   :D      I like it, Barticus.   Flowery high-brow delightfully wonderful comments from Stuart. 

I think each Friday night, when one contestant get's thrown off, Davina should be the presenter. 
 

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 19, 2012, 12:51:02 AM
Another candidate bites the dust. Not surprising as he was my preferred choice. In fairness he looks to have started something special at Dortmund and I never expected him to leave.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7765044/

Liverpool's search for a new manager has been dealt a fresh blow after Jurgen Klopp made it clear he does not want to leave Borussia Dortmund.

Swansea boss Brendan Rodgers has already rejected an approach from the Anfield club, who are looking for a successor to Kenny Dalglish following the Scot's sacking on Friday.

Klopp is thought to be one of the 12 candidates who are being targeted by Liverpool, but he is committed to Bundesliga champions Dortmund after leading them to a league and cup double this season.

The German 44-year-old is one of the most promising manager's in Europe after achieving success on a tight budget, but he is under contract at Dortmund for another four years.

And Klopp is staying put amid plans for a better challenge in next season's UEFA Champions League after a disappointing bottom-placed finish in Arsenal's Group F this campaign.

The previous Chelsea target said: "I have been made aware of interest from England, and it is an honour to be linked with big clubs in the Premier League.

"But I have a contract with Dortmund until 2016 and am going nowhere. I love it here and have no intention of changing clubs."


 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 19, 2012, 01:06:40 AM
Bascombe seems to think that MArtinez is a serious candidate but AVB is favourite. According to Bascombe Rafa doesnt look to have a chance.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9276317/Liverpool-to-open-talks-with-Andre-Villas-Boas-after-Brendan-Rodgers-and-Jurgen-Klopp-rule-themselves-out.html
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 19, 2012, 06:38:26 AM
Suggesting a twice La Liga winning / European Cup winning manager and a young Uefa Cup winning manager as the worst possible candidates. Forgive me Im not sure what gave me the impression your post was being negative  ::)

It's just this kind of anti-intellectual reasoning that sometimes have me thinking whether it's worth writing  a single letter in this forum. People like you understand the world as you percieve it, not by how it actually is. Why that is only you can answer, although I have my ideas.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 19, 2012, 12:21:49 PM
It's just this kind of anti-intellectual reasoning that sometimes have me thinking whether it's worth writing  a single letter in this forum. People like you understand the world as you percieve it, not by how it actually is. Why that is only you can answer, although I have my ideas.

Martin I have no interest in engaging in any sort of conflict with on this forum. Nor do I have any intention of responding to your veiled insult. If you consider my postings to be anti-intellectual that your prerogative. Ive no doubt your a decent bloke like all of the contributors on here but if my posts leave you feeling the need to consider avoiding this forum then I suggest its best if we dont engage with each other going forward.

Cheers
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 19, 2012, 01:28:30 PM
Hadn't thought of Michael Laudrup...


Liverpool have begun their search for a new manager following the board's decision to axe Kenny Dalglish earlier this week.
The Reds are believed to have a short-list of up to 12 people they want to talk to about succeeding Dalglish at Anfield.
Wigan's Roberto Martinez has already been given permission to enter discussions with Liverpool, while Swansea chief Brendan Rodgers declined the opportunity to hold talks with the Merseyside giants.
Danish icon Laudrup is thought to be in the frame for the post, with the 47-year-old believed to be keen to try his luck in England.
Former Barcelona and Real Madrid star Laudrup is highly-regarded in Europe as one of the best young managers around with his brand of exciting attacking style of play.
Laudrup worked as Morten Olsen's assistant with the Danish national side before he became head coach of Brondby in 2002.
After four succesful seasons he left Brondby for Getafe leading them to the final of the Spanish Cup and the quarter-finals of the old UEFA Cup.
Laudrup has since had spells with Spartak Moscow and Real Mallorca who he left last September.
Laudrup has been linked with a move to England in the past and the Dane is thought to have admirers inside the corridors of power inside Anfield as they look to bring in a new man to get the club back on track.

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/7765033/Michael-Laudrup
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 19, 2012, 04:05:29 PM
It's just this kind of anti-intellectual reasoning

(http://www.thejakartapost.com/files/images2/Pol%20Pot%27s%20No.%202.jpg)

Pol Pot's dead, but whatever happened to the Khmer Rouge's number 2.

Could he have escaped Cambodia, and be posting in Anfield Road?

Is this a world exclusive picture first of "Juan"?

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 19, 2012, 11:20:23 PM
Martin I have no interest in engaging in any sort of conflict with on this forum. Nor do I have any intention of responding to your veiled insult. If you consider my postings to be anti-intellectual that your prerogative. Ive no doubt your a decent bloke like all of the contributors on here but if my posts leave you feeling the need to consider avoiding this forum then I suggest its best if we dont engage with each other going forward.

Cheers

Sorry Juan, just got a bit offended by your remarks which I found less constructive. I usually read your posts with joy and although I sometimes doesn't agree with you, always hold your knowledge of this game and this club in respect. What about a clean slate?
Title: our new manager
Post by: Gurdeep on May 20, 2012, 12:05:56 PM
A great piece here from Dion Fanning

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/new-beginnings-for-liverpool-3112724.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/new-beginnings-for-liverpool-3112724.html)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 20, 2012, 02:36:43 PM
Sorry Juan, just got a bit offended by your remarks which I found less constructive. I usually read your posts with joy and although I sometimes doesn't agree with you, always hold your knowledge of this game and this club in respect. What about a clean slate?

Sure Martin no problem, a clean slate is good with me.

I'm not one for conflicts and theres enough going on at the club for everyone to talk about without having to watch us bicker too.  :)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 20, 2012, 02:39:31 PM
(http://www.thejakartapost.com/files/images2/Pol%20Pot%27s%20No.%202.jpg)

Pol Pot's dead, but whatever happened to the Khmer Rouge's number 2.

Could he have escaped Cambodia, and be posting in Anfield Road?

Is this a world exclusive picture first of "Juan"?

Lol Dude.

And heres me thinking I looked inconspicuous in that shot  ;D.

That hat makes me look 10 years younger.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 20, 2012, 03:06:17 PM
Lol Dude.

And heres me thinking I looked inconspicuous in that shot  ;D .

That hat makes me look 10 years younger.

 :D

sures does.

and it's good to have our own despot at anfieldroad.   Despots and dictators are a dying breed these times, so few of them left after the yankee cull......a protected species almost. 

reminds me.....noriega, after serving 20 years in a yankee jail, and some time in france, was flown back here last year...to serve his final years in a local jail.   
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 20, 2012, 03:14:02 PM
Fans' fury as Martinez emerges as front runner for vacant Liverpool job
Daily Mail's Joe Bernstein

Liverpool fans have rounded on the club's decision-makers for considering Wigan's Roberto Martinez as a managerial successor to Kenny Dalglish.

Supporters abused managing director Ian Ayre at a race meeting at Aintree on Friday night and chanted the name of previous Anfield boss Rafael Benitez. The general response from the club's followers to the prospect of Martinez being appointed has been underwhelming, and that is a concern after Roy Hodgson's ill-fated time at Anfield.

Liverpool fans never accepted Hodgson and his reign was the shortest in the club's history, lasting just 31 games.

The club have been widely criticised for their scattergun approach to replacing the sacked Dalglish. Anfield owner John W Henry insists they will appoint a young up-and-coming manager to replace the Scot, fired on Wednesday despite reaching two cup finals this season.  That means Martinez, Swansea manager Brendan Rodgers, former Chelsea boss Andre Villas- Boas and Dane Michael Laudrup could be in, but Benitez and former England manager Fabio Capello are out.

Liverpool would have to pay Wigan only £1million compensation for 38-year-old Martinez, who had renegotiated his contract last summer after turning down Aston Villa. Villas-Boas, sacked by Chelsea in March, is free to take the job. Spaniard Martinez, also coveted by Villa again, has still not spoken formally to Liverpool but is believed to be keen on starting a new challenge after saving Wigan from relegation with seven wins in the club's last nine games. His relationship with Dave Whelan was one of the closest chairman-manager bonds in the league but it became strained when the owner questioned his manager's team selection following a home defeat by Swansea in early March.

Liverpool have been rattled by the fans' reaction to Martinez.

They have been left open to ridicule for failing to make a quick appointment after Dalglish was sacked in Boston during a review with his bosses into a Premier League season in which the club finished eighth, 37 points behind champions Manchester City.

By discussing so many possible managers, the club have risked alienating candidates unhappy with having to take part in a 'beauty parade' and risking returning to their current clubs having failed to land the job. Swansea boss Rodgers has said he does not want to take part in the process and Jurgen Klopp, manager of Bundesliga champions Borussia Dortmund, has also made himself unavailable.

Having felt Dalglish's approach was old-fashioned, the Anfield hierarchy do not view Capello as a serious contender given his difficulties getting the best out of England players at the last World Cup.

Benitez, who took Liverpool to Champions League finals in 2005 and 2007, is hurt he is not being considered given the lack of experience among the other candidates but Henry does not want a manager who is almost a cult figure among the fans, as Dalglish was.

With Henry and chairman Tom Werner in America, under-fire Ayre has had to bear the brunt of the fans' frustrations.

Liverpool have no manager, chief executive or head of sports science, while director of communications Ian Cotton has been replaced by American Jen Chang, who has no experience in football.  They hope, however, to announce a ground naming deal soon to give their next manager much-needed funds in the market.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 20, 2012, 03:16:49 PM
A great piece here from Dion Fanning

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/new-beginnings-for-liverpool-3112724.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/new-beginnings-for-liverpool-3112724.html)

Dion sure makes a good case for Rafa. Good read Gurdeep, cheers.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 20, 2012, 03:28:37 PM
after my initial delight in seeing FSG take-over the club, I am now beginning to conclude that the owners are muppets.....making one mistake after another.

ignoring their past failures......going forward, the failure to find/appoint a top chief executive, the failure to look at Rafa as a candidate, the decision to look at inexperienced kids (like martinez and avb), the sacking of ian cotton, and the employment in cotton's place of a young american lad Jen Chang who has fek all experience in football, the insistence that we restructure (and be like mainland european clubs, the constant change, etc, etc.  It's madness.  They are ripping the heart and soul out of the club.    They are destroying our identity.  They are destroying who we are.

And like a toy, I suspect they will grow quickly tired of us, when they find that their constant change and upheaval, results in putting the club back, and not getting into the CL again. 

One looks at the yank, Learner, who owns Villa.  Started off really well, put in plenty of money.  Then realised a couple of years ago, that cracking the top 4 was not as easy as he had initially imagined....and decided to ease off with future funding (forcing O'Neill out).  And the top 6 finishes that Martin had taken the club to, three seasons in a row, suddenly vanished.  Villa have struggled ever since, and only avoided the drop this month by two points.

The Boston yanks are digging their own financial grave at Anfield.  You do not build a successful club via constant change and upheaval, and failure to appoint the right people at the top, namely manager and chief executive.  I think they may well throw their toy aside, when it fails to get into the top four, in the years ahead.  And the immediate victim, I suspect, will be our new ground/anfield redevelopment.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 20, 2012, 04:33:09 PM
after my initial delight in seeing FSG take-over the club, I am now beginning to conclude that the owners are muppets.....making one mistake after another.

ignoring their past failures......going forward, the failure to find/appoint a top chief executive, the failure to look at Rafa as a candidate, the decision to look at inexperienced kids (like martinez and avb), the sacking of ian cotton, and the employment in cotton's place of a young american lad Jen Chang who has fek all experience in football, the insistence that we restructure (and be like mainland european clubs, the constant change, etc, etc.  It's madness.  They are ripping the heart and soul out of the club.    They are destroying our identity.  They are destroying who we are.

And like a toy, I suspect they will grow quickly tired of us, when they find that their constant change and upheaval, results in putting the club back, and not getting into the CL again. 

One looks at the yank, Learner, who owns Villa.  Started off really well, put in plenty of money.  Then realised a couple of years ago, that cracking the top 4 was not as easy as he had initially imagined....and decided to ease off with future funding (forcing O'Neill out).  And the top 6 finishes that Martin had taken the club to, three seasons in a row, suddenly vanished.  Villa have struggled ever since, and only avoided the drop this month by two points.

The Boston yanks are digging their own financial grave at Anfield.  You do not build a successful club via constant change and upheaval, and failure to appoint the right people at the top, namely manager and chief executive.  I think they may well throw their toy aside, when it fails to get into the top four, in the years ahead.  And the immediate victim, I suspect, will be our new ground/anfield redevelopment.

Questions are definitely now being asked alright Dude.

Although the new ownership is still in its infancy the owners have the club 20 months or so by now.  The stadium issue cant continually be put on the long finger and the club is already undergoing major restructuring for the second time in terms of personnel at the club.

We continually hear "this summer is going to be critical in terms of the clubs future" but I really think that statement has never been more accurate than it possibly will be this year. We are currently in obscurity but if the owners get this summer wrong we could be there to stay.

Recognising all of that though I still currently have faith with what the owners are trying to do. I get the impression its only now the owners are putting the structures in place that they would have done initially had they been more experienced in running a football club.

Ideally I think Barcelona is the type structure that the owners are trying to replicate. Not in terms of attractive football but in terms of how Barcelona are set up, how they develop players and where although the manager is important the structure of the club is the most important thing. Like compare Man U and Barcelona. Uniteds success over the last two decades has primarily been down to the fact that Ferguson is one of the greatest managers in the game. He can motivate a team of average players to compete with Citys team of expensively built superstars. Hes successfully rebuilt the United teams for more than 20 years. Were Fergie to leave tomorrow the main reason for Uniteds continued success leaves with him. Barcelona on the other hand are the opposite. When Rijkaard joined Barcelona were in the early stages of a new club structure that helped him win a couple of league titles, a European cup amongst other honours. But when Rijkaard went the reason for that success didnt go with him. He was replaced by Guardiola and as we know he went on to emulate everything Rijkaard did at the club.  The fact that Guardiola is now gone although is a huge blow to Barcelona the transition so far with Tito Vilanova taking over has been seamless. Theres no reason Vilanova wont continue on from where Guardiola has taken off simply because of the structures in place at Barcelona. Obviously no two managers are the same and Vilanova may have different ideas than Guardiola did but it will all be within the confines of that structure. It wont be a case of ripping up what Barcelona achieved and starting again. Thats what I think our owners are attempting to put in place now. Its obviously debatable whether they can succeed but I feel the rewards will be there if they do. So Im 100% behind them and feel that they do need some time and patience.  We will just have to wait and see if they employ what we perceive are the correct people to take their vision for the club forward.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 20, 2012, 09:07:59 PM
A great piece here from Dion Fanning

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/new-beginnings-for-liverpool-3112724.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/new-beginnings-for-liverpool-3112724.html)

Cheers for that Gurdeep mate. The Independent is a joy to read. Fantastic article in many ways.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 20, 2012, 09:59:55 PM
AVB will be interviewed for the job next week.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 20, 2012, 11:32:43 PM
Edward,

How will the interview be conducted? Face-to-face or video com? And who's asking the questions? Not just the two American owners I hope.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Gurdeep on May 21, 2012, 09:47:31 AM
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1075478/frank-de-boer-not-interested-in-liverpool-job?cc=5739 (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1075478/frank-de-boer-not-interested-in-liverpool-job?cc=5739)

Frank de Boer has ruled himself out of the running to take charge of Liverpool, with the Dutchman insisting he has work still to do at Ajax.

Liverpool have been linked with a host of big names since their decision to sack Kenny Dalglish last week and De Boer came in for support with the bookmakers over the weekend.

De Boer's stock is rising after guiding Ajax to back-to-back Eredivisie titles, but he is not looking for a new challenge in the near future.

"I am honoured by the request, but I am only just getting started with Ajax," De Boer told de Telegraaf. "In Amsterdam we are on a new path and, along with the club and Wim Jonk and Dennis Bergkamp, my colleagues in the technical team, I want to do great things. That's why I will stay loyal to Ajax in the coming years."

Swansea manager Brendan Rodgers has also turned down the chance to take charge of Liverpool, while former Chelsea boss Andre Villas-Boas claims he is in no rush to make his next move.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 21, 2012, 11:34:54 AM
Hmmm ok....so klopp and de boer rule themselves out....guardiola wants a year off......
So we go to the next level of managers...brendan rogers says no....martinez agrees to talks but the fans are a little worried by him....
and AVB is still firmly linked with us but seems to be taking his time as well...anyone else think that Chelsea under AVB wouldn't have stood an earthly chance in winning the European cup mainly cos Lampard and Drogba wouldn't have got a look in...he still needs to convince...great at porto but pretty woeful at chelski...

So who's left? hmmm let me think...someone who cares passionately about the club...
who attends the memorial for the 96 and cries..who donates much of his severance pay to that cause..
who gets us to two european cup finals in 3 years...and wins one with traore in defence!
who gets us to number 1 in europe...
who comes 2nd in the league and plays some blinding stuff...despite the shennanigans of the 2 carpetbaggers H&G...
who can appear antagonistic and gets involved in the politics mainly cos no one else was doing it...no players, no ex players nada....and shows that he has passion...and the fergie rant was bang on...would be nice to see him and mancini start bringing this up far more as united begin to weaken...
who still lives locally and knows the club intimately...
and fits the criteria of a youngish coach (51 is still fairly young) who can build a vast project...Like he did at Valencia...
who plays balanced teams...
and doesn't spend ridiculous amounts of money...

Rafa. Nuff said...

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 21, 2012, 12:55:16 PM
well said, Barticus.

we have the most awesome European manager living in the city, who was our next Bob Paisley, who took us to number one ranked club in Europe, who adores the city and the club, and who is just waiting for a phone call to return.

I know Ian Ayre isn't up to much (apart from sponsorship work); but even he cannot score a massive own goal by ignoring Rafa.  Indeed, if Ayre cannot work with Rafa, then it's time to dispense with Ayre.

I know the yanks like numbers, so let me spell it out for them.   If the yanks are only gonna put in 20 million pounds, net, per year from now on.....then there are only two managers around who historically can get top four (and CL qualification) on such a limited budget.....Arsene Wenger and Rafa Benitez.

If they are smart they will call Rafa.  If they are pigheaded, they will not only ruin the club's chances of breaking into the top 4 again, but they will also alienate themselves from a large section of the Liverpool fanbase (all the polls across the web have Rafa as top choice among fans.....with some polls as high as 75 percent for Rafa).




Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 21, 2012, 01:06:54 PM
Hmmm ok....so klopp and de boer rule themselves out....guardiola wants a year off......
So we go to the next level of managers...brendan rogers says no....martinez agrees to talks but the fans are a little worried by him....
and AVB is still firmly linked with us but seems to be taking his time as well...anyone else think that Chelsea under AVB wouldn't have stood an earthly chance in winning the European cup mainly cos Lampard and Drogba wouldn't have got a look in...he still needs to convince...great at porto but pretty woeful at chelski...

So who's left? hmmm let me think...someone who cares passionately about the club...
who attends the memorial for the 96 and cries..who donates much of his severance pay to that cause..
who gets us to two european cup finals in 3 years...and wins one with traore in defence!
who gets us to number 1 in europe...
who comes 2nd in the league and plays some blinding stuff...despite the shennanigans of the 2 carpetbaggers H&G...
who can appear antagonistic and gets involved in the politics mainly cos no one else was doing it...no players, no ex players nada....and shows that he has passion...and the fergie rant was bang on...would be nice to see him and mancini start bringing this up far more as united begin to weaken...
who still lives locally and knows the club intimately...
and fits the criteria of a youngish coach (51 is still fairly young) who can build a vast project...Like he did at Valencia...
who plays balanced teams...
and doesn't spend ridiculous amounts of money...

Rafa. Nuff said...

I hear what you say bart but all that could be balanced with:

*Who have a history of putting himself ahead of te club?
*Who have a history of getting involved in weird conflicts both in-house and with our rivals inflicting damage on the club?
*Who have spent 6 years as a manager for a then big club without learning the importance of winning leaguegames?
*Who has apalling man-management skills exampled by the exit of one of this club's greatest midfielders since the golden 80's?
*Who saw some 85 players come and go during 6 seasons creating a constant discontinuity and a ridiculous wage-structure in the process?
*Who will always put a european game (regardless of its importance) ahead of a PL-game?
*Who finished outside the top 4 twice in 6 years?
*Who made us look mechanic, shackled and uninspirational for the major part of 6 seasons?
*What manager was always more scared of losing a game than eager to win it?

I'm not saying we'll have that many options at the end of the day, but this Rafa hype is way way to uncriticical for my liking. There was a reason he got the sack and it wasn't all down to those two yanks being from hell an'all that.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 21, 2012, 01:10:01 PM
well said, Barticus.

we have the most awesome European manager living in the city, who was our next Bob Paisley, who took us to number one ranked club in Europe, who adores the city and the club, and who is just waiting for a phone call to return.

I know Ian Ayre isn't up to much (apart from sponsorship work); but even he cannot score a massive own goal by ignoring Rafa.  Indeed, if Ayre cannot work with Rafa, then it's time to dispense with Ayre.

I know the yanks like numbers, so let me spell it out for them.   If the yanks are only gonna put in 20 million pounds, net, per year from now on.....then there are only two managers around who historically can get top four (and CL qualification) on such a limited budget.....Arsene Wenger and Rafa Benitez.

If they are smart they will call Rafa.  If they are pigheaded, they will not only ruin the club's chances of breaking into the top 4 again, but they will also alienate themselves from a large section of the Liverpool fanbase (all the polls across the web have Rafa as top choice among fans.....with some polls as high as 75 percent for Rafa).

They went for the fans wishes once. It worked out, hmm, not so good. Hopefully they learnt something from that.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 21, 2012, 03:07:08 PM
Quote 1
*Who have a history of putting himself ahead of te club?

Not sure on that one...he tried to voice his concerns about H&G...but he was liverpool through and through...

Quote 2
*Who have a history of getting involved in weird conflicts both in-house and with our rivals inflicting damage on the club?

The H&G thing goes without saying...
But Agreed he did mix it with Parry...but that could be because he blamed Parry (and Moores) for the H&G debacle..
He was bang on with the Fergie rant...

Quote 3
*Who have spent 6 years as a manager for a then big club without learning the importance of winning leaguegames?

Apart from the first year where we came 5th he knew full well the importance of winning league games ...to get into the Champions League...i agree he sometimes played weaker teams against the minnows leading us to get useless draws against teams we should have been stonking...but after the first year of H&G and realising that they were liars then the squad had to adapt...not an excuse and i agree that we were negative in part..something which would have to be addressed in the future...

Quote 4
*Who has apalling man-management skills exampled by the exit of one of this club's greatest midfielders since the golden 80's?

Agreed once more to some extent...but rafa didn't go to his fathers funeral because of a liverpool game and as he led by example he saw the game against inter as important and so thought alonso should do the same...highly debateable i agree

Quote 5
*Who saw some 85 players come and go during 6 seasons creating a constant discontinuity and a ridiculous wage-structure in the process?

He had to cos of H&G and the need to sell to buy...some worked out...some didn't...if he could have kept his core then that would have been fine...but he had to wheel and deal...

Quote 6
*Who will always put a european game (regardless of its importance) ahead of a PL-game?

If it was against a 'lower' side then yes...full strength against milan or full strength against wigan and not so strong against milan...led to number 1 in europe but frustrating league draws...

Quote 7
*Who finished outside the top 4 twice in 6 years?

Can't argue with it...the first one we went on and won the CL and the last one (after 3 years of H&G bs) we were 3 points off i seem to remember...but i concede the point...

Quote 8
*Who made us look mechanic, shackled and uninspirational for the major part of 6 seasons?
We never let a team get settled on the ball...we beat barca, juve, real and manu in a week...sometimes we did look mechanical...

Quote 9
*What manager was always more scared of losing a game than eager to win it?
Hmmm...not sure if i agree with that one...

the reason he got the sack is cos mumblings from the dressing room and ex players thinking they could do a much better job, ignoring the fact that H&G were bankrupting the club which might have had something to do with rafa's buy and sell policy...and so H&G saw the opportunity and got rid of someone who had become vocal against their lies...




Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 21, 2012, 03:14:35 PM
They went for the fans wishes once. It worked out, hmm, not so good. Hopefully they learnt something from that.

no, the football fuk.wits wanted Rafa out; and the same fuk.wits wanted Dalglish installed.

if there is a lesson to be learned, it is, don't listen to these same football fukwits again.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 21, 2012, 06:27:04 PM
no, the football fuk.wits wanted Rafa out; and the same fuk.wits wanted Dalglish installed.

if there is a lesson to be learned, it is, don't listen to these same football fukwits again.

But rather to the righteous fuk.wits, right?

On another note the rumours saying AVB vill be our next manger grows stronger. Dude, where can I find one of those "reinstate Rafa" forms? Fukc me gently with a chainsaw up the backside and it will be a joy compared to us under AVB I tell yous. We'd be looking for a new manager before Chrimbo. Wtf's wrong with the world???
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 21, 2012, 06:48:25 PM
But rather to the righteous fuk.wits, right?


Blessed are the righteous, Martin....
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 07:10:32 PM
Two questions:

1) Why was the manager let go when neither a replacement had been identified or an imminent appointment of
    a DOF was about to happen?  (Results and the merits of a DOF aside, there is no-one to identify targets for
    the dealmaker(s) to pursue).

2) Why do we even know who our managerial targets are? (Martinez excepted for obvious reasons).


As Dude and I have said about Parry, his business acumen was zero, but he'd identified and talked to Rafa before Houllier was let go, again showing he knew his way around on the footballing and political side.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 21, 2012, 07:44:32 PM
Edward,

How will the interview be conducted? Face-to-face or video com? And who's asking the questions? Not just the two American owners I hope.

AVB and Martinez will both be interviewed in Boston this week.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 21, 2012, 07:50:19 PM
Interesting to see on twitter Kennys son Paul would like to see Rafa reappointed as manager.  I wonder if kenny is of the same opinion.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 08:16:21 PM
Interesting to see on twitter Kennys son Paul would like to see Rafa reappointed as manager.  I wonder if kenny is of the same opinion.

But what would Carra and Stevie say?  So maybe that's why Rafa's not on the (not so) shortlist?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 21, 2012, 08:23:33 PM
Fukc me gently with a chainsaw up the backside and it will be a joy compared to us under AVB I tell yous.

 :D     I think you;re slowly starting to get the hang of the english language....as well as our humour and imagary!

Avoid all chainsaws.      Rafa for Anfield!!     
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 08:25:33 PM
As our ownership are such novices, maybe it would be helpful to appoint someone like Capello for two to three seasons to get the 1st team functioning and back into the top four whilst the rest of the structure is put in place, additionally buying time for the likes of Klopp or De Boer to be interested in the future. Let Capello work with the DOF (who will have the lion's share of responsibility) organise all the footballing structures so that a long term coach takes over with a system already in place and running.

If we were to go with Martinez or AVB we would need a vastly experienced DOF to both support and advise the first team coach in addition to being in charge of implementing the system we are looking to build going forward.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 21, 2012, 08:25:57 PM
But what would Carra and Stevie say?  So maybe that's why Rafa's not on the (not so) shortlist?

yes, what would our two usual one-brain-cell muppets say.

heck, maybe one of them has had vague thoughts about applying for the job themselves (and I;m only half joking)

if ayre, carra and stevie are at odds with rafa, then I;d kick all three out of the club.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 21, 2012, 08:26:57 PM
AVB and Martinez will both be interviewed in Boston this week.
Thanks. I trust they'll be fed some pertinent football questions by those more knowledgable. Anyone other than the 2 owners from the LFC side?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 21, 2012, 08:28:27 PM
As our ownership are such novices, maybe it would be helpful to appoint someone like Capello for two to three seasons to get the 1st team functioning and back into the top four whilst the rest of the structure is put in place, additionally buying time for the likes of Klopp or De Boer to be interested in the future. Let Capello work with the DOF (who will have the lion's share of responsibility) organise all the footballing structures so that a long term coach takes over with a system already in place and running.

yes, if it not to be Rafa, then it has to be an experienced hand at the till.

capello would be exactly that.

for goodness sake muppets, do not appoint a kid to do a man's job....I wince at the thought of martinez in our dugout............AVB is marginally better.....and brendan is a tad better again than avb.

but why take the risk by appointing a child.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 08:29:00 PM
:D     I think you;re slowly starting to get the hang of the english language....as well as our humour and imagary!

Avoid all chainsaws.      Rafa for Anfield!!     

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytjjjlAVY58&feature=fvst (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytjjjlAVY58&feature=fvst)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 21, 2012, 08:29:13 PM
Thanks. I trust they'll be fed some pertinent football questions by those more knowledgable. Anyone other than the 2 owners from the LFC side?

Your guess is as good as mine!!

One presumes it will be Henry, Werner, Ayre and the new DOF.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 08:32:53 PM
Thanks. I trust they'll be fed some pertinent football questions by those more knowledgable. Anyone other than the 2 owners from the LFC side?

Ray, that's the biggest worry of all, just who will be asking the questions and considering the answers. Hopefully we'd see both Dein and Parry recruited to the panal and wouldn't it be nice to see Mr Jimmy 'commensense' Armfield included.

Somehow, at best I'd probably get 1 out of 3 of my wishlist.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 08:55:15 PM
How Martinez's Wigan record stacks up against the previous managers Bruce and Jewell:

                             Matches     Won     Drawn     Lost        Win %

Martinez                  127          34          36           57          26.77

Bruce                        68          23          17           28           33.82

Jewell                      291        127         74           90          43.64
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 08:58:33 PM
yes, what would our two usual one-brain-cell muppets say.

heck, maybe one of them has had vague thoughts about applying for the job themselves (and I;m only half joking)

if ayre, carra and stevie are at odds with rafa, then I;d kick all three out of the club.

Gerrard's first job will be to get Carra to sign Owen and Murphy.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 09:02:36 PM
Rafa's odds are shortening. Bookies worried?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 21, 2012, 09:12:35 PM
Rafa's odds are shortening. Bookies worried?

I can guarantee you, that Rafa will not be our new manager. Guarantee it. FSG haven't even contacted him, yet alone enquired if he would be interested or would be willing to be interviewed for the job.

It will either be AVB or Martinez. At this present moment in time (I mean anything can happen in the next few weeks...) I'd be extremely shocked if our new manager is not either AVB or Martinez.

I can also say that we will shortly announce our now Director of Communications (Jen Chang) and our new Director of Football (although whether he'd be given that title is another matter, but alas he is Comolli's replacement). I do not know who the new DOF is, but I do know that he is involved the process of recruiting the new manager.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 09:36:59 PM
I can guarantee you, that Rafa will not be our new manager. Guarantee it. FSG haven't even contacted him, yet alone enquired if he would be interested or would be willing to be interviewed for the job.

It will either be AVB or Martinez. At this present moment in time (I mean anything can happen in the next few weeks...) I'd be extremely shocked if our new manager is not either AVB or Martinez.

I can also say that we will shortly announce our now Director of Communications (Jen Chang) and our new Director of Football (although whether he'd be given that title is another matter, but alas he is Comolli's replacement). I do not know who the new DOF is, but I do know that he is involved the process of recruiting the new manager.

Dein's been heavily touted for this position, so we must be moving away from a more hands on position, player considerations/discussions with manager/coach based to a more administrative based role.
You couldn't see Dein co-selecting targets with the manager/coach, more a case of appplying valuations etc and negotiating all aspects of any deal.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 21, 2012, 09:40:33 PM
I doubt it will be Dein. But who knows.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 21, 2012, 10:35:16 PM
Very interesting discussions and posts in this thread. A joy to read. Cheers Ed mate for sharing. tes, your point on Capello is nothing short of brilliant. They really could do with your brain and I mean that.

Dude, it's more of a case to get it as catchy as you native tounges. Cheers anyroad.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 10:57:06 PM
I doubt it will be Dein. But who knows.

From all the rumours flying around the job description of the DOF seems to have been revised.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 21, 2012, 11:02:51 PM
I can guarantee you, that Rafa will not be our new manager. Guarantee it. FSG haven't even contacted him, yet alone enquired if he would be interested or would be willing to be interviewed for the job.

It will either be AVB or Martinez. At this present moment in time (I mean anything can happen in the next few weeks...) I'd be extremely shocked if our new manager is not either AVB or Martinez.

utterly depressing news.   :(

given their woeful record of appointments, and restructuring, to date, I am starting to revise my thoughts on FSG.

AVB will not be capable of getting Liverpool into the top 4.....thus this soccer experiment for the yanks is going to be a highly expensive waste of money.  At this point, I am starting to ponder the thought that they should sell the club on.

And the reason I say that, is that they don;t seem to have a fuk..ing clue.



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 21, 2012, 11:03:09 PM
Ray, that's the biggest worry of all, just who will be asking the questions and considering the answers. Hopefully we'd see both Dein and Parry recruited to the panal and wouldn't it be nice to see Mr Jimmy 'commensense' Armfield included.

Somehow, at best I'd probably get 1 out of 3 of my wishlist.

Tes, I've never had to conduct an interview like this and even though I love football I wouldn't have a clue what to ask. John Henry et al are successful businessmen who know diddly about footie but do know how to run a successful business. They will have enough common sense to recruit people who know about the footie side I'm sure. I'm sure they're aware the importance of getting the choice right.

Ian Ayre and the new DoF should be able to cover that side but wouldn't it be wonderful to have someone like Jimmy Armfield in there.

Edward, thanks for the info. Please continue to keep us informed if you feel able.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 21, 2012, 11:07:51 PM
Tes, I've never had to conduct an interview like this and even though I love football I wouldn't have a clue what to ask. John Henry et al are successful businessmen who know diddly about footie but do know how to run a successful business.

Ian Ayre and the new DoF should be able to cover that side but wouldn't it be wonderful to have someone like Jimmy Armfield in there.

good call, Ray.  Like you, I am a massive fan of Jimmy Armfield.  To me it was always heaven listening to 5Live commentaries with Alan Green and Jimmy.......superb duo.

As for an interview......even if Henry and Werner did know what salient questions to ask, would they even know what a good answer  would be to these questions.

At this moment in time, I have lost all faith in them. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 21, 2012, 11:18:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytjjjlAVY58&feature=fvst (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytjjjlAVY58&feature=fvst)

can't beat some Chainsaw blues after midnight.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 11:31:31 PM
Tes, I've never had to conduct an interview like this and even though I love football I wouldn't have a clue what to ask. John Henry et al are successful businessmen who know diddly about footie but do know how to run a successful business. They will have enough common sense to recruit people who know about the footie side I'm sure. I'm sure they're aware the importance of getting the choice right.

Ian Ayre and the new DoF should be able to cover that side but wouldn't it be wonderful to have someone like Jimmy Armfield in there.

Edward, thanks for the info. Please continue to keep us informed if you feel able.

Ray, they have the business skills and savvy but to know what to look for you have to know the subject matter in depth. They will, as you say have to recruit people to deal with the subject matter of the interview, if not the interview structure itself.

Ray, your knowledge of football, built up over the years and differing eras both of us have experienced, would allow you to form a judgement on what was being suggested by any candidate. I would suggest that the vast majority of the conversation would be carried out by the potential candidate, not the interviewer. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 21, 2012, 11:33:07 PM
good call, Ray.  Like you, I am a massive fan of Jimmy Armfield.  To me it was always heaven listening to 5Live commentaries with Alan Green and Jimmy.......superb duo.
I wish I could have listened to them on Saturday with TV pictures. Alas, I had to put up with Gary Neville's wittering!

Quote
As for an interview......even if Henry and Werner did know what salient questions to ask, would they even know what a good answer  would be to these questions.

At this moment in time, I have lost all faith in them. 

They're getting a lot of stick but that doesn't necessarily mean things will not turn out well. I think whoever is appointed they deserve a fair crack of the whip before fans turn on them. It certainly wouldn't be "The Liverpool Way" for fans to turn on a manager after a few games. Blackburn perhaps, but not us.

I think when you're interviewing someone for a job it's what they say that gets them the job. You can put feelers and hooks out and see how the person copes. It would be a big step up for either AVB or Martinez but look at how Roy panned out with all the experience he had. I think a younger manager would only get better whereas an older one is usually set in their ways and can't adapt if things don't go as intended.

De Matteo certainly got better since his time at WBA. Has O'Neill or Alardyce improved? Don't think so.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 21, 2012, 11:43:44 PM
De Matteo certainly got better since his time at WBA. Has O'Neill or Alardyce improved? Don't think so.

Di Matteo got WBA up playing good football but ultimately didn't have the calibre of player required at WBA. With better and much more capable players, he's been able to instigate his way quickly, and you have to say effectively with Chelsea.

He's matched Rafa's trophy winning record with us in less than half a season with Chelsea.

He's the archetypal coach to work under a DOF, having responsbility for first team affairs only, whilst the DOF builds in a mirrored approach throughout the rest of the club and at all levels within. Any new coach is then selected for his ability to execute and mirror the structure and chosen method of playing that has been insigated and nurtured throughout the rest of the club. Stabilty is maintained at all arreas of the club and only the name above the first team coach's door changes. That's the theory at least.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 21, 2012, 11:44:33 PM
Ray, they have the business skills and savvy but to know what to look for you have to know the subject matter in depth. They will, as you say have to recruit people to deal with the subject matter of the interview, if not the interview structure itself.
I imagine that's why Ayre and one other will be there. I would have preferred some more experienced people to be there but that hasn't been possible unfortunately.

Quote
Ray, your knowledge of football, built up over the years and differing eras both of us have experienced, would allow you to form a judgement on what was being suggested by any candidate. I would suggest that the vast majority of the conversation would be carried out by the potential candidate, not the interviewer. 

Your second point is something I just posted to dude. Yes, the candidate has to sell themselves and with football he can give examples where his tactics paid off especially against the better teams. The key point is to convince an employer that with better players his tactics will be more successful than they were with his former club. Dressing room on board is also key. I'm sure Gerrard and Carragher et al will welcome him more than Terry et al did.

I'm thinking back to when Houllier was sacked and Rafa's name was announced. I didn't feel he was a monster capture at the time. Did anyone else?

I'm determined to keep an open mind on any new appointment. You have to because to do otherwise will only cause you grief 'cos you can't do anything about it anyway.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 21, 2012, 11:48:12 PM
Di Matteo got WBA up playing good football but ultimately didn't have the calibre of player required at WBA. With better and much more capable players, he's been able to instigate his way quickly, and you have to say effectively with Chelsea.
Just a quickie before bed. Exactly Tes! What's to say AVB or RM couldn't do the same with the players we have plus some new recruits. Ask a surgeon to operate on you with a bread knife and you won't fare too well but give him a scalpel and you stand a much better chance!  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 22, 2012, 12:04:06 AM
Ray, I think whoever gets appointed will at best only be able to get us challenging for the top four. That however should be deemed as real progress when compared to the last three seasons, especially if that challenge continues right up to the beginning of game 38.

If a trophy were to be added to that, whether it's successfully defending the League Cup or another trophy, there shouldn't be a singly dissenting voice amongst the fanbase.

Gaining the confidence of the dressing room shouldn't be difficult be then respect seems to be in short supply amongst the modern day football 'star'. Martinez would have no record to use in the search for said respect. Rafa had achievements to point to. Capello has done more as both player and manager than the 'dressing room mafia' could ever hope to achieve.

Whether we've got all the blocks in place at the club for a younger manager to start to build upon is debatable. Stadium issues and the boardroom/adminstrational structure and personnel are hardly giving us the solid foundation for the football side to be re-built upon.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 22, 2012, 06:40:40 PM
Tes, I agree that competing for 4th for most if not all of the season would be a refreshing change. That will place enormous pressure on the manager and I now feel it would be unfair to expect that of a new relatively inexperienced manager like Martinez or AVB. Cappello appears to be interested and I hope he's given an interview. If he costs more in salary and a transfer budget then so be it. I hope our owners aren't trying to get 4th on the cheap because that's more or less impossible.

Quite frankly I don't have any time for footballers who's sole reason for considering whether to move to a club or stay with an existing one is Champions League football. To base such decisions on perhaps 6 games a season is utterly disrespectful. I am pleased that Suarez has publicly stated he's happy to stay although I accept that may be a season on season decision.

And I'll say it again. I hope I don't read on these pages of any criticism of a new manager after a few games if we don't immediately hit the ground running. To use a popular term anyone who does that would be a muppet!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 22, 2012, 07:02:55 PM
Tes, I agree that competing for 4th for most if not all of the season would be a refreshing change. That will place enormous pressure on the manager and I now feel it would be unfair to expect that of a new relatively inexperienced manager like Martinez or AVB.

but Ray, help me out here.  You always berate Rafa, and yet on an average net spend of just over 16 million per season, Rafa nearly always finished top four and qualified for the CL....indeed in his penultimate season, he fought for the title with United, ending up second.

Now, with Rafa gone, and with the club now pumping in loads of cash, you are happy to be merely competing for 4th......what gives?  OK, Man City are the new kids on the block with their megacash.....but why do you berate Rafa, and now gladly accept lower finishes than what Rafa offered?   It doesn;t make any sense to me.


And I'll say it again. I hope I don't read on these pages of any criticism of a new manager after a few games if we don't immediately hit the ground running. To use a popular term anyone who does that would be a muppet!

 :D

any supporter who wants Rafa Benitez sacked and the likes of Hodgson, Dalglish or Martinez installed, is King of Muppetland.

And if the useless senior management at Liverpool Football club, appoint someone like Martinez, the fans are going to give them an earful.  It will be like Hodgson all over again, only worse.  Mark my words.

Having said that, I do not believe that they are THAT stupid.  I think Martinez is but mere fodder in this whole farcical recruitment procedure.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 22, 2012, 11:21:05 PM
I think its now official that Rafa wont be getting the job.

Louis Van Gaal is being lined up as sporting director. I think that will mean either AVB or Martinez being appointed manager. Whoever it is it will be someone young to work in tandem with Van Gaal. At least its looking like the owners have a grand plan afterall. Saw one report claiming that AVB could be appointed tomorrow. Sky claim though the interviews will only start to take place later this week with a decision not expected for 2 weeks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/22/louis-van-gaal-liverpool

Louis van Gaal in line for a senior managerial position at Liverpool

Louis van Gaal is in line for a senior managerial role at Liverpool. The Dutchman was linked with a move to Anfield in the wake of Damien Comolli's dismissal as director of football in April. However, while it has since been decided to change the management structure at Liverpool, Van Gaal has remained under consideration for a revised role and is the leading contender to become the club's first sporting director.

He is understood to be keen on a move to Merseyside and his appointment could herald the arrival of several new faces at Anfield, including the successor to Kenny Dalglish. The club are also set to name Billy Hogan, currently the managing director of Fenway Sports Group, as the their new commercial director. FSG are conducting an extensive search for a manager since sacking Dalglish last week and their ideal criteria of a young coach with title-winning experience would fit alongside a sporting director of Van Gaal's experience and expertise. That plan led to approaches for Jürgen Klopp of Borussia Dortmund and Ajax's Frank de Boer, both of whom declined the opportunity to meet John W Henry and Tom Werner, Liverpool's principal owner and chairman respectively, and to interest in the former Porto and Chelsea manager, André Villas‑Boas.

Villas-Boas and Roberto Martínez of Wigan Athletic are among several candidates for the manager's post and whoever is chosen will, it seems, have to accept working with Van Gaal, who has won league titles with Ajax, Barcelona, AZ Alkmaar and Bayern Munich, plus the Champions League with Ajax in 1995.

The 60-year-old was due to return to Ajax in a director's capacity this year until a legal challenge from long-time adversary Johann Cruyff derailed the move. His last managerial role was at Bayern, who he led to the Bundesliga title and the Champions League final in 2010 before being sacked in April 2011.

Van Gaal's work with Ajax and Barcelona undoubtedly appeals to Liverpool's owners as they conduct an overhaul at Anfield and look to imprint a playing philosophy throughout every level of the club. That strengthens his claims for the proposed sporting director role, although Van Gaal has not yet called time on his managerial career and was linked with PSV Eindhoven before their recent appointment of Dick Advocaat.

FSG's method of replacing Dalglish has attracted criticism due to the number of rejections it has prompted. Brendan Rodgers was the first to decline the offer of an interview but it is understood the Swansea City manager would not reject an offer of the job if it was forthcoming.

Henry and Werner have still to reach a decision on a new stadium but, in an indication they favour a redeveloped Anfield over a new build on Stanley Park, the club's managing director, Ian Ayre, has revealed that progress has been made with local residents regarding the existing stadium. The "right to light" is one of the major obstacles in the way of a redeveloped Anfield, as the necessity to build upwards would have an impact on nearby housing. That has been the focus of protracted negotiations between the club and residents in recent months, with the possibility that the "right to light" can be sold offering Liverpool hope of staying at their historic home.

Ayre said: "People assume that because we haven't made a major announcement, or can show any spade in the ground, that nothing has gone on and no progress has been made. There is progress. The most important thing for us, especially under this owner, has been about certainty on the stadium. We are not going to make comments that we're doing something until we've got certainty. And that certainty quite often is in other people's hands.

"In the case of staying at Anfield that certainty is with residents in and around that area that we would need to convince. We're having some great dialogue with them. When we have that certainty we will make the announcement and move on it. It's all right for people to say Liverpool is a big football club – 60,000 seats, why don't you just go and get on with it? But look at the economics of that, of a £300m build for 15,000 new seats. It's pretty hard to make that stack up. The work is going on and a decision will be announced when we've got certainty."

Ayre has not ruled out a new development on Stanley Park, for which naming rights would have to be sold. "We are fairly well down the line with a couple of major brands who have shown significant rights in naming rights for a new stadium."


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 22, 2012, 11:47:48 PM
but Ray, help me out here.  You always berate Rafa, and yet on an average net spend of just over 16 million per season, Rafa nearly always finished top four and qualified for the CL....indeed in his penultimate season, he fought for the title with United, ending up second.
That isn't quite right dude. I don't berate him. I have suggested he has baggage that is unappealing to the owners. He bought a huge number of players and the wage bill was enormous. You may remember the horror from the new owners when they took over. That was down to Rafa I'm afraid. He's also a man who demands total control and I don't think they want one man to have that. Hence the new structure they're bringing in. Rafa would be incompatible with that.

Personally he's a lovely bloke but you can't be sentimental in business. Yes, we had a couple of great seasons and it wasn't his fault he had to sell to buy inferior players. But I think we have to accept he isn't going to be employed unless something remarkable happens.

Quote
Now, with Rafa gone, and with the club now pumping in loads of cash, you are happy to be merely competing for 4th......what gives?  OK, Man City are the new kids on the block with their megacash.....but why do you berate Rafa, and now gladly accept lower finishes than what Rafa offered?   It doesn;t make any sense to me.
I'm not daft enough to expect us to compete for the title next season. So I set a realistic target and I think that's 4th. Now if we're 4th and within 10pts of the top in Feb I may well change that target. It's all about realism.

Quote
any supporter who wants Rafa Benitez sacked and the likes of Hodgson, Dalglish or Martinez installed, is King of Muppetland.
I'm not saying I want Martinez installed or anyone else. I will accept the decision of the owners and then look forward to supporting the team and the manager. I'll make my mind up game by game and will try to keep an open mind as I would hope others here would do.

Quote
And if the useless senior management at Liverpool Football club, appoint someone like Martinez, the fans are going to give them an earful.  It will be like Hodgson all over again, only worse.  Mark my words.
You decide to call them useless. I don't. They're doing things differently. If Juan's Guardian report is true that sounds excellent news. You seem very quick to judge people dude. Why not wait and give people a chance?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 22, 2012, 11:53:35 PM
It's all right for people to say Liverpool is a big football club – 60,000 seats, why don't you just go and get on with it? But look at the economics of that, of a £300m build for 15,000 new seats. It's pretty hard to make that stack up. The work is going on and a decision will be announced when we've got certainty."

£300M for an extra 15,000 seats works out at a mammoth £20,000 per seat! I can fully understand it would be a mad decision to build a new stadium for that cost for just an extra 15,000 seats. If the right to light for affected residents can be overcome and we can build an extension behind the Centenary stand and/or the Main Stand and knock them together in the summer break that would be an excellent result. We probably get to keep "Anfield" and the atmosphere. It's worth waiting for. The alternative means we'd be in hock for decades even after selling naming rights.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 23, 2012, 12:18:12 AM
£300M for an extra 15,000 seats works out at a mammoth £20,000 per seat! I can fully understand it would be a mad decision to build a new stadium for that cost for just an extra 15,000 seats. If the right to light for affected residents can be overcome and we can build an extension behind the Centenary stand and/or the Main Stand and knock them together in the summer break that would be an excellent result. We probably get to keep "Anfield" and the atmosphere. It's worth waiting for. The alternative means we'd be in hock for decades even after selling naming rights.

Ray, I think the idea is to extend the Main and Annie Road stands. Lothair Road has few houses that are not owned by either us or the council apparently. That would go, and the space between there and the next street behind, Alroy Road is greater than the space between the Centenary Stand and Skerries Road.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&rlz=1W1ADRA_enGB471&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=817&wrapid=tlif133772833023410&q=l4+maps&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x487b2158d2a1509d:0xa3eea4f3f3f20e28,Liverpool+L4&gl=uk&ei=Wx28T9yjA46R0QXSzI08&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&rlz=1W1ADRA_enGB471&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=817&wrapid=tlif133772833023410&q=l4+maps&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x487b2158d2a1509d:0xa3eea4f3f3f20e28,Liverpool+L4&gl=uk&ei=Wx28T9yjA46R0QXSzI08&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 23, 2012, 10:45:16 AM
Van Gaal as the new DOF seems to be all over the media. I would worry about him as I don't think he sees himself as finished as a manager, and he may aggitate to be given the manager's job if the new man starts to struggle.

Hopefully I'm wrong on this.

He needs to convince Jan Vertonghen to come from Ajax and say no to Spurs. We need cover for Agger, possibly a replacement for Skrtel if indeed he's had his head turned & definately one for Carra.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 11:09:59 AM
(http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/incoming/article414111.ece/ALTERNATES/gallery-large/Liverpool-Rick-Parry-cropped)

Former Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry believes Champions League qualification will be the “minimum requirement” for the club’s new manager.

Parry, who was at Anfield between 1998 and 2009, was involved in the appointments of Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez.

“We always said to be in the Champions League isn’t a goal, it’s a minimum requirement.  It’s tougher now but I don’t think it was unrealistic to at least be looking at being in contention last year."

"If you look at the criteria we applied when we appointed Gerard and Rafa they were a little different, even in that five-year period.

“With Gerard we deliberately decided we wanted to bring in some continental experience. With the advent of the Champions League, France were very much on the ascendancy, so we thought he would bring something fresh.

“We parted company with Gerard having qualified for the Champions League because our standard then was we wanted to be in contention for winning the league.

“We wanted someone young and hungry, not someone looking for a pension.

“Rafa, having won the league twice with Valencia, was a perfect fit.”

Parry admits Liverpool’s current owners are taking a different approach to finding Kenny Dalglish’s successor.

Fenway Sports Group have looked to sound out around a dozen candidates rather than swiftly compiling a shortlist.

“You first of all set the criteria very tightly. From my experience that led us to a shortlist of one. In each instance we got the person we were looking for,” Parry added.

“In every negotiation there is skill, a bit of luck and the third element is timing. Sometimes that is in your favour, sometimes it isn’t because it is all about the right people being available.”

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 11:24:46 AM
Personally Rafa's a lovely bloke but you can't be sentimental in business.

who's being sentimental in business?  Rafa has many years of experience and a top CV, unlike your faves Martinez or AVB. 

I will accept the decision of the owners and then look forward to supporting the team and the manager.

You seem very quick to judge people dude. Why not wait and give people a chance?

Ray, I'd have far more respect for you, if you were honest enough to hold your hands up and admit that you got it badly wrong, when seeking Rafa's sacking.  And the subsequent installation of Hodgson and then Dalglish.

A few of us in here called it correctly.  Why not hold your hands up and say "You know what, Tes and dude, you guys were spot on.  You called it right.  And your fears have been realised."

I knew after the first 5 or 6 games of this season, that we were in problems.......but it took you most of the season to finally see reality.

Instead you stumble on, from one bad call to the next, and instead of looking in the mirror, you berate me for not accepting these useless decisions.   

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 23, 2012, 12:14:46 PM
What do you lot make of the Van Gaal rumours? Personally I'd love to have him in a DOF position.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 01:07:48 PM
What do you lot make of the Van Gaal rumours? Personally I'd love to have him in a DOF position.

Director of Football is a stupid position.  And those who take up such a role, are usually movers and shakers.....who are in the position for a season or two at most, then move on to more interesting and lucrative things.   

I can't see Van Gall devoting 5 plus years of his pension years to the north west of england.

And as for the endless change and restructuring at Anfield, who knows how well Van Gaal will get on with the international mixture of new people that are coming in the revolving door at Melwood. 

Given his career to date, and his bluntness, I imagine history suggests he won't get on well with his new, yet to be disclosed, colleagues.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 23, 2012, 01:11:29 PM
What do you lot make of the Van Gaal rumours? Personally I'd love to have him in a DOF position.

As long as he's got the management bug out of his system, which I'm not convinced about. I'd be worried that he'd try to line himself up as a replacement at the first sign of trouble for Dalglish's replacement, especially if we appoint a young 'lightweight'. Van Gaal is a control freak who won't be in overall control of the team.   
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 23, 2012, 02:15:35 PM
Given his career to date, and his bluntness, I imagine history suggests he won't get on well with his new, yet to be disclosed, colleagues.

[/quote]
As long as he's got the management bug out of his system, which I'm not convinced about. I'd be worried that he'd try to line himself up as a replacement at the first sign of trouble for Dalglish's replacement, especially if we appoint a young 'lightweight'. Van Gaal is a control freak who won't be in overall control of the team.   

absolutely agree with both of yous...but it's an interesting slant on the idea of control...

Rafa's urge for 'control freakery' at Liverpool mainly came about when he saw that Parry was nothing more than a peacemaker between the carpetbaggers and himself, i think rafa saw the light with H&G far sooner than Parry ever did...Parry was naive in that department hence his recommendation to sell to H&G and not dubai...until the very end of his tenure i don't think Parry saw H&G for what they truly were...
Rafa wanted complete control cos he saw the Club going under...down the stream without a paddle as it were...

When Rafa went to Inter he voiced an opinion that he wanted the owner to act on his promises...similar situation to H&G...

Honesty and wanting what's the best for the club COULD in some quarters be seen as 'control freakery' but in other quarters could be seen as giving a ***k..

Avoiding Rafa and appointing another certified control freak in Van Gaal is an interesting development...i think Van Gall might be a good one but he will most certainly have to be chained...which can be done in his contract ...sorted..
as can any worries with rafa as well...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 23, 2012, 03:16:33 PM
As long as he's got the management bug out of his system, which I'm not convinced about. I'd be worried that he'd try to line himself up as a replacement at the first sign of trouble for Dalglish's replacement, especially if we appoint a young 'lightweight'. Van Gaal is a control freak who won't be in overall control of the team.

Interesting you say that Tes because if you listen to this Dutch journalist they are his sentiments exactly also. He only interviewed Van Gaal on Friday and was very much given the impression that Van Gaal still saw himself as a manager of a team out coaching the players.

FSG would surely have to make it clear in no uncertain terms that even if a new young manager didnt work out and had to be replaced that in no uncertain terms would Van Gaal be allowed to step in even on a temporary basis.

Otherwise you have the potential of different people with their own different agendas not necessarily all pulling together for the good of the club.

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/hawksbee-and-jacobs/120523/van-der-kraan-van-gaal-will-want-liverpool-managers-job-not-director-rol-172776

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 03:17:57 PM
When Rafa went to Inter he voiced an opinion that he wanted the owner to act on his promises...similar situation to H&G...  Honesty and wanting what's the best for the club COULD in some quarters be seen as 'control freakery' but in other quarters could be seen as giving a ***k..

Avoiding Rafa and appointing another certified control freak in Van Gaal is an interesting development...i think Van Gall might be a good one but he will most certainly have to be chained...which can be done in his contract ...sorted..
as can any worries with rafa as well...

very good point, Barticus.

the owners seemingly want to eliminate any individual having too much control, thus this is the apparent reason why they do not want any individual who likes to have control.

thus, no interview for Rafa.

but hey, hang on a second, why then are they interviewing Gaal, who is famous for his control-freakery?

once again, our owners are making policy on the hoof. 

goodness knows what mixture of personnel, from across the planet, they will have employed by the end of the summer.

Sports Illustrated journalist Jen Chang takes over from the deposed ian cotton, as director of communications......what an utterly bizarre (and rubbish) appointment.

And FSG's Billy Hogan is flying in from Boston to be the Commercial Director of Liverpool.   WTF?

I have given up on FSG.  There is no master plan.  They are making it up as they go along.  They think they can swan into Britain, and into a new sport, and use all their baseball experience to bring success to merseyside.

Success is built on experience.  Liverpool's era of dominance was built on football men of long years of experience.  It was built on continuity.   I do not see anything to date with FSG than gives me any hope of returning to league title winning ways. 

I see them going down the Lerner way at Villa.....i.e. after 3 or 4 years, they realise it was not as easy as they initially thought, and they give up.....accepting of the status of also-rans....and possibly try and sell the club on.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 03:20:44 PM
Otherwise you have the potential of different people with their own different agendas not necessarily all pulling together for the good of the club.

and isn't this exactly the point that some of us have been making since the very start, when they created this stupid Director of Football position.

it doesn;t work in Britain, it never has.  Only mugs create such a position. 

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 03:53:05 PM
(http://assets.bizjournals.com/boston/print-edition/0916_ExPro_Billy-Hogan-Fenway-Sports-Management-315*280.jpg?v=1)

Billy Hogan, Cleveland born, 37 year old Commercial Director, Liverpool FC

Billy Hogan’s job is to promote some of the best-known brands in the world of sports.  It’s an embarrassment of riches for the 37-year-old Hogan, a managing director at Fenway Sports Management. Hogan’s charges include the Boston Red Sox, the Liverpool Reds of the English Premier League and basketball star LeBron James.

Fenway Sports Management operates on a more global stage these days because its owner, Fenway Sports Group    , has become more ambitious. Led by John Henry and Tom Werner, Fenway Sports Group captured global headlines last fall in its $480 million takeover of Liverpool FC, considered one of the most valuable football franchises in the world.

“It really has changed our perspective because of the global nature of Liverpool,” Hogan said.

Hogan already has been to several Liverpool matches since the takeover and says he’s been a longtime fan of the sport. And it’s not a bad gig taking prospective clients to Liverpool’s storied Anfield stadium, introducing marketing executives from North American corporations to the passion and fervor that surrounds EPL football. He said his favorite Liverpool player is striker Luis Suarez, a hard-charging goal-scorer from Uruguay who comes with the nickname “El Pistolero.”

Reinforcing the global brands of Liverpool and LeBron James, for example, requires more travel, but Hogan said there’s nothing better than the face-to-face meetings he has with clients and prospects.

Hogan grew up in Cleveland, where James cemented his status as an NBA superstar before jilting the Cavaliers for the Miami Heat    . Hogan said he respects James because of the level of interest he has in his partnerships.

“I have a different perspective,” Hogan said. “(LeBron) is actually a great guy. He has been really great to work with. It all comes down to his willingness to participate and to get feedback.”

Fenway Sports Management landed James as a client on the heels of Henry and Lerner’s acquisition of Liverpool.

“We were just catching our breath, really, after finishing a 60-day whirlwind with the Liverpool deal,” Hogan recalled.

Paul Wachter, founder of Main Street Advisors, which provides financial advice to Hollywood stars, suggested that James and his business partner, Maverick Carter, get to know Fenway Sports Management.

“Our approach to LeBron was, ‘We make sense because we don’t make sense,’ ” Hogan said.

James considered better-known agencies that can tout their long list of famous clients. Hogan said Fenway Sports Management could differentiate itself because it represents properties, not individuals. “That resonated for sure,” Hogan said.

James wanted his name associated with blue-chip sports properties known around the world. Hogan said Liverpool played a big role in negotiations.

Fenway Sports Management ultimately struck a business partnership with James and Carter, who also agreed to acquire a stake in Liverpool FC.

“We haven’t done athlete representation,” Hogan said. “But LeBron is a global icon.”
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 04:01:12 PM
(http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/06/10/UTTMsmith_Chang061010_480x360.jpg)

Jen Chang, a kid in his 20s, Director of Communications, Liverpool FC

Liverpool FC has hired Sports Illustrated journalist Jen Chang as its new director of communications, PRWeek understands.

Chang will replace Ian Cotton, who left on 13 May after 16 years with the club.

Chang is currently a senior editor at Sports Illustrated and headed up the editorial coverage of football for the US soccer section on ESPN.com.

The news comes after a tumultuous week for the club, which saw it part company with manager Kenny Dalglish, director of football Damien Comolli and communications director Cotton.

The departures followed a disappointing season for the team on the pitch and widespread condemnation of the defiant way the club handled the Luis Suarez affair last October, in which the striker was charged by the FA for racially abusing Manchester United’s Patrice Evra.

Liverpool fan Chang strongly defended Suarez and the club on Twitter at the time and called for Evra too to be charged by the FA, stating: 'Why is Patrice Evra not getting charged by the FA? Evra admits in evidence he used insulting language towards Suarez.'

Liverpool FC declined to confirm the appointment, saying that an announcement was imminent.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 04:11:10 PM
(http://www.thecambodiaherald.com/images/upload/sport/YmExMTkwODJhYjhlYzI1YmM4NDI3ZWNhMDExZWVm/760_450/Roberto%20Martinez.jpg)

38 year old Roberto Martinez

_______________________________________ ______________________________



(http://www.leaktainment.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Andre-Villas-Boas.jpg)

Andre Villas Boas, 34 years old



_______________________________________ _____________



(http://www.regista-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Brendan-Rodgers.jpg)

Brendan Rodgers, 39 years old
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 04:14:28 PM
the common denominator, in FSG's thinking, is clear.....just look at those youthful pictures above.......bring in young people across the club.

but what will the young lad Chang, Director of Communications, for example, know about football (he calls it "soccer"), Hillsborough, or the history of our club.     


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 23, 2012, 06:03:41 PM
the common denominator, in FSG's thinking, is clear.....just look at those youthful pictures above.......bring in young people across the club.

but what will the young lad Chang, Director of Communications, for example, know about football (he calls it "soccer"), Hillsborough, or the history of our club.     

Bill Shankly called it soccer. Good enough for me.

Jen Chang is an excellent appointment. He is a highly respected journalist with a lot of connections with the media, he has a good handle on the atmosphere in which he'll be working and has a lot of great relationships in that world , which makes well-prepared to work within that environment to control the image and message of the organization. He's very savvy and knowledgeable.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 23, 2012, 06:16:34 PM

Sports Illustrated journalist Jen Chang takes over from the deposed ian cotton, as director of communications......


Hey now i have an idea...as i write the football pages for www.menandautotrader.com down here on the costa del sol...can i be the next appointment when Chang fails?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 06:25:07 PM
Bill Shankly called it soccer. Good enough for me.

Jen Chang is an excellent appointment. He is a highly respected journalist with a lot of connections with the media, he has a good handle on the atmosphere in which he'll be working and has a lot of great relationships in that world , which makes well-prepared to work within that environment to control the image and message of the organization. He's very savvy and knowledgeable.

when did Shankly ever refer to football as *soccer*?

Ed, what makes you say Jen Chang is a highly respected journalist?   Nobody has ever heard of the lad.  Is writing a blog and posting a column in a yankee magazine, Sports Illustrated, all one needs to be highly respected these days?

here he is interviewed:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WjnLwS5ZW4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WjnLwS5ZW4)

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 06:27:53 PM
Hey now i have an idea...as i write the football pages for www.menandautotrader.com (http://www.menandautotrader.com) down here on the costa del sol...can i be the next appointment when Chang fails?

 ;)

you have as good a chance as anyone, Bart.

As a keen gardener, but having watched a handful of american football games, I am applying to be chief coach of the San Francisco 49érs.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 23, 2012, 06:58:08 PM
who's being sentimental in business?  Rafa has many years of experience and a top CV, unlike your faves Martinez or AVB.
Rafa might have years of experience but the owners aren't interested in him. Why can't you accept that? And where have I said Martinez and AVB are my favourites? All I said is either might be a decent choice. And so what if I would like one of them? I'm entitled to an opinion aren't I?

Quote
Ray, I'd have far more respect for you, if you were honest enough to hold your hands up and admit that you got it badly wrong, when seeking Rafa's sacking.  And the subsequent installation of Hodgson and then Dalglish.
I never sought Rafa's sacking. Point me to that post. In this one you can see what I wrote about his departure. Hardly the words of someone who wanted him sacked. http://www.anfieldroad.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11165;topic=785.50;last_msg=11448

Quote
A few of us in here called it correctly.  Why not hold your hands up and say "You know what, Tes and dude, you guys were spot on.  You called it right.  And your fears have been realised."
Well done you got it right. However, I didn't get it wrong because I haven't predicted how I think a manager will perform. I just hope that the team do well under him. In this thread I simply reported the story. http://www.anfieldroad.com/forum/index.php/topic,16930.0.html  If I was going to slate him wouldn't that be the time to do it?

Quote
I knew after the first 5 or 6 games of this season, that we were in problems.......but it took you most of the season to finally see reality.

Instead you stumble on, from one bad call to the next, and instead of looking in the mirror, you berate me for not accepting these useless decisions.   

I may not have been happy about the performances but unlike you I don't come on here slagging off the manager. If you're going to be hostile about my comments then I'll simply ignore you. Just because I don't fit your profile of what you think a poster here should be like that's no reason to slag someone off.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 23, 2012, 07:01:23 PM
Ray, I think the idea is to extend the Main and Annie Road stands. Lothair Road has few houses that are not owned by either us or the council apparently. That would go, and the space between there and the next street behind, Alroy Road is greater than the space between the Centenary Stand and Skerries Road.
Thanks for that Tes. If the residents who would suffer from restricted daylight can be compensated or rehoused it may open the way for redevelopment. I would prefer that because I think the resale value of the land the ground sits on will be far less than Highbury.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 07:26:14 PM
Rafa might have years of experience but the owners aren't interested in him. Why can't you accept that? And where have I said Martinez and AVB are my favourites? All I said is either might be a decent choice. And so what if I would like one of them? I'm entitled to an opinion aren't I?

yes, just like ME, you are entitled to an opinion.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 07:29:28 PM
http://www.talktorafa.com/ (http://www.talktorafa.com/)

a direct way of getting a message to John Henry's email account re Rafa.

vote early, vote often!   ;D

I have written to our owner in the past few minutes.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 09:12:19 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/roberto-martinez-and-rafa-benitez-in-power-843061 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/roberto-martinez-and-rafa-benitez-in-power-843061)

wow, there sure is a head of steam building for a Rafa return to Anfield.

just look at the numerous fan comments, at the bottom of the article, telling the yanks to reinstate Sir Rafa!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 23, 2012, 09:14:39 PM
Bill Shankly called it soccer. Good enough for me.

Jen Chang is an excellent appointment. He is a highly respected journalist with a lot of connections with the media, he has a good handle on the atmosphere in which he'll be working and has a lot of great relationships in that world , which makes well-prepared to work within that environment to control the image and message of the organization. He's very savvy and knowledgeable.

Does he know the British media scene, because that's the primary market he'll be operating in.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 23, 2012, 09:22:33 PM
And FSG's Billy Hogan is flying in from Boston to be the Commercial Director of Liverpool.   WTF?

Another appointment from within the US of A. Has he operated in a market outside of North America?


I'm doubtful that the appointments made have the knowledge and experience of the regions and areas of the world within which they'll be operating and working, and will they expect it to be the same as the States, or will they attempt to impose their will and ways, and think that will work.
Americans aren't known for their outward looking approach, outside of their idea of 'the world', ie the USA.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 23, 2012, 09:28:19 PM
Rafa's young enough not to be looking at designs for his pension book cover, but old enough to have the relevant experience.

Trusting these sub 40 year olds to learn on the job at Liverpool, whilst bringing the success that the owners expect is just a stretch too far.
Only AVB has any experience of European football. Look how long it took the domestically dominate Taggart to learn his European lines. And how many CL finals has he managed in his 20+ years at the Mancs.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 23, 2012, 09:37:11 PM
absolutely, Tes.    The man they need is living in Liverpool.  Rafa has forgotten more about football than these young alternatives have ever known.

Rafa is the ideal age....early 50s.  He could give us 15 to 20 years service.

And as for the other appointments....agreed, nonsense appointments.....absolutely ridiculous.

Watching this saga unfold this summer, is like watching a train wreck in slow-motion.....and frustratingly helpless to do a thing to prevent it happening.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 24, 2012, 12:24:59 AM
I was listening to Talksport earlier and Tony Evans from the Times claimed there was no chance AVB and Louis Van Gaal would be at the same club. He appeared pretty definitive on that. He claimed that the people he knows in the corridors at Anfield said although AVB was being considered he actually wasnt a serious contender.

So to tonight, Evans seems to know what hes talking about because now the guardian and independant are running with;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/liverpool-andre-villas-boas

Liverpool owners cool their interest in André Villas-Boas

Andy Hunter


The prospect of André Villas-Boas becoming Liverpool manager has receded after the club's owners, who have offered Louis van Gaal the position of sporting director, cooled their interest in the 34-year-old.

Villas-Boas has been a frontrunner for the Anfield vacancy following Kenny Dalglish's sacking last Wednesday and hoped to hold formal talks with the principal owner, John W Henry, and the chairman, Tom Werner, as the Liverpool hierarchy settle on a shortlist for the post. The former Porto and Chelsea manager, however, has not been approached for an interview. While his candidacy cannot be discounted completely, he has seen his prospects diminish amid interest from Fenway Sports Group in Roberto Martínez, Brendan Rodgers and possibly the man they wish to oversee a new managerial structure at Liverpool, Van Gaal.

The Portuguese coach, who guided Porto to a league and Europa League double in his one season in charge before suffering an ill-fated spell at Chelsea, had made it known he was keen on Liverpool only to insist on Sunday that he was "still choosing the right project and that decision will take the necessary time". It has also been suggested that Villas-Boas knows a second failed stint in English football would cause irreparable damage to his career at the highest level, although his agent, Carlo Goncalves, has not ruled out a move to Anfield.

Roma have also approached Villas-Boas since he was sacked by Chelsea in March but are also keen on their former striker, now Catania coach, Vincenzo Montella. Goncalves said: "Liverpool and Roma? Well, what we are looking for is a [club with a] strong technical plan, that is solid and durable. Villas-Boas would like to return to coaching in these conditions, but if these conditions are not available, we would have no problems not working. I won't confirm or deny contacts with specific clubs. What we are interested in is a technical project, its outlook and a situation that has longevity."

Goncalves's words may fit with FSG's proposed vision for Liverpool but the new management structure envisaged at Anfield is still being put in place. Van Gaal has been offered a senior role at Anfield and, though he has not called time on his own managerial career and may ask to be considered as a potential replacement for Dalglish, is believed to be close to accepting the position of sporting director.

Martínez remains a candidate for the managerial vacancy and has held informal talks with Liverpool since they were granted permission to approach the Wigan Athletic manager last week. He has not met Henry and Werner in Boston for a formal interview and that process is unlikely to commence before the weekend. Martínez is on holiday in the Caribbean.

Another possibility for manager remains Rodgers, despite his public rejection of the offer of an interview last Friday. The Swansea City manager declined Liverpool's invitation on the basis he had no wish to be part of an extensive list that would then be whittled down, particularly as his work at the Liberty Stadium should be clear to FSG. Rodgers may be tempted if it was clear he was on Liverpool's shortlist and FSG are understood to be still interested in the 39-year-old.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 24, 2012, 12:36:35 AM
I dont see how Martinez is in the frame to be manager. AVB I could understand because in fairness he has shown some prior form but with Martinez Wigan have just about finished where Wigan should be finishing each year. They havent over-performed. The teams finishing below them have been woeful.

Rodgers is mentioned again and I would actually prefer him to Martinez. He may be flavour of the year but I have still seen more promise in him than I would in Martinez. In fact Rodgers and Lambert would be on a par for me. But neither would have half enough experience to be considered for the Liverpool job.

Its clear the owners have no interest in going down the Rafa route although he looks to be the best available candidate out there at the moment. I actually think the petition by the fans will work against Rafas chances. They dont want another manager adored by the fans who may be hard to remove in future.

I just hope FSG arent putting all of their eggs in the Martinez basket because I personally feel we deserve better.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 24, 2012, 12:01:53 PM
Rodgers may be tempted if it was clear he was on Liverpool's shortlist and FSG are understood to be still interested in the 39-year-old.

So there is, after all, still hope of a golden future!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 24, 2012, 01:19:19 PM
So there is, after all, still hope of a golden future!

If, under Brendan, we go on to win the League and Champions league I will be the first in line to get my large portion of humble pie...
If we do so then i will personally campaign for 'martinmarx freedom of the city' as well..
That is a solemn promise..
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 24, 2012, 01:30:53 PM
if our owners insist on appointing a youngster, then among the three of AVB, Martinez and Rodgers,  I would go for Rodgers.     But that choice is based on a mere season in the top flight.  But he does appear to offer more than Martinez or AVB (not that hard, to be honest).

but our owners seem to be going from pillar to post, making policy up on the hoof.  Overnight, there are sounds emanating that 60 year old Van Gaal could be MANAGER.   

personally I think the yanks are all over the show, either arrogant and/or bonkers.

if we get a good manager, it will be through accident not design.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 24, 2012, 02:42:24 PM
(http://static-imgs-acf.hereisthecity.com/20110721//68/roberto_martinez_11861.jpg)

Roberto Martinez could be the real deal - Liverpool must give him a chance
by Mal James
http://hereisthecity.com/2012/05/23/roberto-martinez-could-be-the-real-deal-liverpool-must-give-him/ (http://hereisthecity.com/2012/05/23/roberto-martinez-could-be-the-real-deal-liverpool-must-give-him/)

Roberto Martinez is among the front runners for the Liverpool job. Despite never winning a major trophy, Mal James says he may just be the right man for the task.

Yesterday I read a post by a Liverpool fan stating that Martinez was not good enough for Liverpool, that he had no track record and that he’d only just managed to keep Wigan from relegation.

This was not a lone voice. Ian Ayres, the Liverpool Chief Executive was publically abused the other day by some ‘fans’ for considering Martinez.

As both a Liverpool and Wigan fan, this constant, and unfair, criticism of Martinez is becoming tiresome.

So, I added up the total transfer costs of the Wigan first team (not including subs). It came to £6m, plus two players’ fees undisclosed. So, the probable total cost of the eleven players who started most matches last season was just £9m.

So, from February until the end of the season, with an entire team that cost no more than Liverpool squandered on Charlie Adam, Martinez managed to finish just nine points behind Liverpool.

In the last 15 matches of the season, Wigan gained 28 points from 15 matches, including away wins against Liverpool, Arsenal and Fulham, and home wins against Man United, Newcastle, and Stoke. Wigan didn’t as much beat Newcastle as demolish them.

Take Part In Our Euro 2012 Predictor Competition - Free Entry, £4,000 Prize Fund

In that same period, Liverpool managed a huge 16 points. If the season had lasted another four or five games on the same form, Wigan would have been level with Liverpool.

Now, Martinez managed this without the luxury of being able to go and spend £35m on a striker; £20m on an (very average) winger; or £9m on a truly awful midfielder.

Yet Wigan played superb football with a winger bought for £2.5m (Moses), who makes Downing look pedestrian, and a midfielder from Celtic (Maloney £1m) who is far superior to Adam, or Henderson, for that matter.

And why weren’t the Wigan fans complaining when the club was rooted at the foot of the table? The answer was that they could see what their manager was trying to do. And it paid off. Even then, they tried to on the right way. It was just a matter of gaining belief, which Martinez gave them.

There are two ways of looking at the situation. Many fans are advising, even urging Liverpool not to bring in Martinez. I would advise Martinez to think twice about going to Liverpool. If the fans and owners are not prepared to be patient with what will take time, then he should avoid it like the plague. He is better than that.

I’ve got mixed feelings. As a Wigan fan I’d hate to see him go. As a Liverpool fan, there’s only one place I’d want him to go to if he does leave. He is well good enough for Liverpool.

I’m convinced that Martinez has it in him to become one of the very, very, top managers around, and I don’t just mean in this country. He sets out well-balanced teams that play lovely pass and move football. He is a superb motivator and has given this small town team the belief to beat anyone.

He would not be my current first choice at Liverpool. My preference, like many fans, would be the return of Rafa Benitez. However, if this doesn’t happen, then I’d be quite happy to see Martinez arrive. If so, he must be given a fair chance. My fear is that the reaction of some of the fans at present might put him off the idea.

If that happens, he might well become the best manager Liverpool never had.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 24, 2012, 02:45:38 PM
for the sake of fairness, I thought I'd post the interesting article above, about Martinez.

he sure has worked on a shoestring budget (6 million net for the season).  Amazing that he managed to beat the big teams on such a cheaply put together squad.

but arguing from the other perspective, it's one thing managing well at the lower end of the table (or mid table) and quite another thing actually winning trophies at the top end of the table.   
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 24, 2012, 02:47:12 PM
I dont see how Martinez is in the frame to be manager. AVB I could understand because in fairness he has shown some prior form but with Martinez Wigan have just about finished where Wigan should be finishing each year. They havent over-performed. The teams finishing below them have been woeful.

Rodgers is mentioned again and I would actually prefer him to Martinez. He may be flavour of the year but I have still seen more promise in him than I would in Martinez. In fact Rodgers and Lambert would be on a par for me. But neither would have half enough experience to be considered for the Liverpool job.

Its clear the owners have no interest in going down the Rafa route although he looks to be the best available candidate out there at the moment. I actually think the petition by the fans will work against Rafas chances. They dont want another manager adored by the fans who may be hard to remove in future.

I just hope FSG arent putting all of their eggs in the Martinez basket because I personally feel we deserve better.

I agree with you on all points, Juan. 

Rodgers is most likely the best of the youngsters.   

But the real deal is Rafa.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 24, 2012, 05:07:03 PM
Wigan may have done well in the last quarter of the season, but what about the first three quarters? What the hell was happening then? Lambert and Rodgers kept their newly promoted teams on a consistent even keel throughout the season. Martinez did not.

Wigan have escaped relegation 2 or 3 times now late in the season, but have failed in any way to take the late season improvement into the following season.

Lambert, Rodgers and Pardew will all be worth watching this coming season to see if they can replicate, or even better, build on what they've achieved this season.

AVB encountered two problems. 1) He isn't called Jose Mourinho 2) He was looking to phase out players that had brought the success under Mourinho, and that was resisted by the dressing room mafia and by poor support from those above him at the club.

We have fewer long term 'stalwarts' and of those we have, only Carra, Gerrard and possibly Reina are particularly vocal.

I would be uneasy about any 'young' manager being appointed, without a proven track record and essentially learning on the job, without a pair of experienced hands in this DOF (whatever it's title ends up being) position to help us from going too far off course when the hiccups invariably occur.

If as it seems we won't have the requisite cash to spend, then we need someone who will at least re-establish us in the top four quickly, by bringing long proven winning methods without the need to spend huge amounts changing things in the process.

Van Gaal and Capello have such records. Maybe three seasons of re-establishment, giving us the sort of base Abramovich/Mourinho had at Chelsea, and then hand over to one of the current younger coaches, who by then will have proven things one way or the other and these next three seasons will have sorted the wheat from the chaff accordingly.   
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 24, 2012, 07:54:26 PM
Wigan may have done well in the last quarter of the season, but what about the first three quarters? What the hell was happening then? Lambert and Rodgers kept their newly promoted teams on a consistent even keel throughout the season. Martinez did not.

Wigan have escaped relegation 2 or 3 times now late in the season, but have failed in any way to take the late season improvement into the following season.

yes, some people in life are firefighters, namely, they excel in firefighting.....captain marvel is one example.....and possibly Martinez is another example.  One has to wonder why Wigan are so woeful in the first half of the season, and then finish so strongly.  Usually, it is the other way around i.e. clubs with limited resources (like Wigan) start off well, and then come unstuck as the season progresses (due to injury, fatigue, suspensions, lack of player resources, etc).  But for some reason, it is the opposite at Wigan.

I just fail to see why our owners are so insistent on overlooking Rafa.  He is the elephant in the room.  And my suspicion is that Ayres is the man to blame.

But if we do bring in Van Gaal, then I think it would be criminal to not let him be manager.



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 24, 2012, 09:20:30 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Louis-van-gaal4-CN.jpg)

of the managers that have been linked to us, to date, and have expressed an interest, Van Gaal has by far the best CV (resume, if Martin is reading).

Ignoring his early career successes, as manager at both Ajax and Barcelona, it's interesting how in the past 7 years, he has came back with a new appetite for more success.  He went back to Holland to manage AZ, in July 2005.  It took him 4 years, but he took them to only their second ever league title in 2009. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Gaal#Manager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Gaal#Manager)

Indeed, if you look at the league table that season, see link below, his team strolled to the title.....some 11 points ahead of their nearest competition (Twente) and 12 ahead of third-placed Ajax.   What is interesting, is not how many goals AZ scored, but how few they conceded (22 for the season).  Obviously, Van Gaal likes a tight defensive unit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eredivisie_2008%E2%80%9309#League_table (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eredivisie_2008%E2%80%9309#League_table)

the success at AZ, then led him to join Bayern in the summer of 2009.  At Bayern, Van Gaal won three cups in his first season in charge.....the league title, the DFK-Pokal Cup (like our FA Cup), and the DFP Super Cup.   He also took Bayern to the Champions League final that season.

He was Dutch Sports Coach of the Year in 2009; and German Football Manager of the Year in 2010. 

When asked about his footballing philosophy in 2008, van Gaal said: "It's a footballing philosophy more than a system. A system depends on the players you have. I played 4–3–3 with Ajax, 2–3–2–3 with Barcelona and I can play 4–4–2 with AZ. I'm flexible. The philosophy stays the same though. I don't think that you can adapt it to every possible situation. You need the right mindset, and it depends on how the players see the coach and vice versa. The coach is the focal point of the team but you need to have an open mind, and so do all the players. Everyone needs to work together to achieve a common goal. Preparing your tactical formation is essential. Each player needs to know where he has to be, and that is why there needs to be mutual understanding because you need absolute discipline. This is a sport played by 22 men, and there are 11 opponents out there playing as a team. Each individual needs to know who he has to beat and be there to support his team-mates."
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 24, 2012, 11:19:18 PM
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7241/7264261986_a7188c6848_b.jpg)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 25, 2012, 12:24:28 AM
So there is, after all, still hope of a golden future!

In fairness when you first suggested Rogers as a potential candidate many of us joked as to his suitability. Although I still think the LFC job is too soon for him Id probably prefer to see him get the job than Martinez.

I just wonder where has FSGs criteria for the LFC job gone. Now you just seem to need to be young. The proven track record at winning titles part has gone out the window.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 25, 2012, 12:35:42 AM
for the sake of fairness, I thought I'd post the interesting article above, about Martinez.

he sure has worked on a shoestring budget (6 million net for the season).  Amazing that he managed to beat the big teams on such a cheaply put together squad.

but arguing from the other perspective, it's one thing managing well at the lower end of the table (or mid table) and quite another thing actually winning trophies at the top end of the table.

Yeah its a fair article written by someone who sees more in Martinez than most of Liverpools fanbase. As the author says credit to Martinez for working on a shoestring budget, avoiding relegation while playing some nice football. My problem is when has any of that ever been good enough to net you the Liverpool job.

Its a complete shot in the dark as to how Martinez will handle a club the size of Liverpool, how he will deal with big players like Suarez and Gerrard. Nobody knows if he will be capable of building a team to get us into the top 4 not to mind chase for a title. Nobody knows how he would spend 30 million. The fact that we dont know the answers to those questions doesnt mean Martinez cant excel and succeed in the role. But for a club like Liverpool its one hell of a gamble and certainly not a potential appointment that is sitting easy with me.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 25, 2012, 12:40:01 AM
Wigan may have done well in the last quarter of the season, but what about the first three quarters? What the hell was happening then? Lambert and Rodgers kept their newly promoted teams on a consistent even keel throughout the season. Martinez did not.

Worrying points there Tes. Why have Lambert and Rodgers not been given more consideration considering theyve out performed Martinez. I know Rodgers turned down an interview but only because he thinks he has no chance of the job. If it were offered to him he'd jump at the chance. In fact he must be sitting in disbelief watching Martinez now as favourite.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 25, 2012, 12:53:39 AM
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7241/7264261986_a7188c6848_b.jpg)

Lol funny stuff. Henry reminds me of a Larry David with hair.

If Martinez does get the job Id really love to see him prove us all wrong.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 25, 2012, 05:03:02 AM
I've given up on FSG.

their arrogance is now pretty apparent.

they think they can swan into england, take over a top football club, and like with a computer programme, design a script and fill in the little gaps with young personnel, and then have success.   Their yankke baseball/sports model fits all sports across the world apparently.  Nobody can tell our owners anything.  They have all the answers.  Typical american arrogance (and believe me, I have seen plenty of it in four years here).

they are ripping the heart out of liverpool football club.  Their arrogance, and sheer stupidity, has ruined the club.

the loss of parry (we have Hicks to thank for that) is very apparent across the past couple of years.  And now with other experienced personnel being shown the door, things will only get worse.   Our owners appear to want young people, especially *yes men*.  They do not want any manager to have control......and yet that is what every major manager worth his salt demands.

the debacle of a recruitment process, is cringeworthy.  Apart from Martinez, not one other single manager has accepted an interview.  And just right they are too. 

Our owners think that they can use the american sports model recruitment here......it is evident that they cannot.   Any manager worth his salt will never agree to such a  nonsense. 

I think the yanks should sell up and get out  of dodge.  And take Pam Ayres with them.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 25, 2012, 08:23:06 AM
 :o :o :o :o

Guardiola has confirmed that once he takes a month off he is willing to listen to offers about managing a new club. Holy moley he will surely be looking for a project considering hes left the best team in the world. What better place to test yourself than liverpool. Surely chelsea would be all too easy for him.

"Sorry Roberto somethings come up, you can make your own way to the airport right?"
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 25, 2012, 09:50:29 AM
:o :o :o :o



Juan, there's a lot of truth in what Dude says unfortunately.

Look at the reasons they sacked Dalglish. League forrm. Or more precisely, not qualifying for the CL.
At the point at which they sacked Comolli we were never going to get top four. There was only the FA Cup left for us to 'achieve'.
Therefore Dalglish was always going to be sacked. I'm using Ayre's words here. So why sack the DOF without a replacement already lined up, if we were going to be managerless at the same time at some point?
Any targetted manager is going to want to know who he will be working with (DOF).

They therefore should have held off with one of the two dismissals, so that any target for the one vacancy would at least know who they would be working with, which is a big influence on their decision.

Or, having sacked Comolli first and not lined up an immediate replacement, they had to have an immediate replacement lined up for Dalglish (hard given the existing vacancy at DOF).

At best it's making them look reactionary, at worst, incompetant, clueless and completely out of their depth.

I've spent time living in the States and I totally agree with what Dude says. It is shocking and for us, frightening, how insular Americans are. Their knowledge of anything outside of the US is pitiful and they, for example, find it impossible to understand that countries like the UK, or that other well known one nearby, Europe (what do you mean you don't know what a continent is? No, it's not a letter other than A, E, I, O or U), might actually be different in ANY way to their 'world'.

Their news programmes are pretty much made up of just local news, occasionally they may have something national on, but that's rare, but apart from maybe having something about Canada where they can score points (the only reason it's actually on), international news is a non-entity.

I'm prepared to give FSG time. We owe them that much as without them there would be no 'us'. Our club would have pretty much ceased to exist.
The stadium issue, or rather the apparent lack of 'anything tangible' doesn't worry me. The numbers for adding 15K seats don't stack up favourably without a huge naming rights deal, and even then that would probably only cover the interest each year, and re-developing Anfield is incredibly difficult with the lack of available land and all the planning issues and the politics etc involved.

My biggest beef is the lack of senior management structure at the club. That should have been first priority, even over the football, and it's hard to see what their strategy was in the case of manager and DOF.

We have to be realistic also. We are on a downward curve, hardly the most attractive club at the moment, unless there is a battle hardened, true football man out there, who wants the challenge of returning us to a title challenging/winning, top European side. We're arguably the biggest poisonous chalice in club football worldwide at the moment, and we have to realise that and be realistic in that we aren't going to challenge for the title within the next 5 years. Re-establishing ourselves in the top four, bringing CL football and the financial support and platform that brings is 'the title' for the foreseeable future unless something, that I can't even imagine what it is, changes. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 25, 2012, 10:16:13 AM
If, under Brendan, we go on to win the League and Champions league I will be the first in line to get my large portion of humble pie...
If we do so then i will personally campaign for 'martinmarx freedom of the city' as well..
That is a solemn promise..

And I will hold it to you, mate!  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 25, 2012, 10:25:04 AM
Worrying points there Tes. Why have Lambert and Rodgers not been given more consideration considering theyve out performed Martinez. I know Rodgers turned down an interview but only because he thinks he has no chance of the job. If it were offered to him he'd jump at the chance. In fact he must be sitting in disbelief watching Martinez now as favourite.

Or biding his time. Either way I think he gave proof of just the kind of judgement a legend in the making should have.

Re Martinez. Fair enough his winning record isn't great, but shouldn't one be open to the possibility that he has a deeper knowledge and most of all experience regarding what it takes to win a leaguegame on a cold and rainy/snowy mid-week december game? And that with a better squad to deploy he could actually be exactly the right man to finally get this club to beat "lesser" teams with room to spare? After all, it isn't our record against the top 6 that has seen us miss out on CL-footy the last 3 seasons.

For all the good things Rafa did, understanding that the key to challenge for the title lies in beating Stoke away rather than beating a mediocre CL-side at home when qualification for the play-offs is practically secured wasn't one of them. It's also the reason I never want to see him manage this club again.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 25, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
I've spent time living in the States and I totally agree with what Dude says. It is shocking and for us, frightening, how insular Americans are. Their knowledge of anything outside of the US is pitiful and they, for example, find it impossible to understand that countries like the UK, or that other well known one nearby, Europe (what do you mean you don't know what a continent is? No, it's not a letter other than A, E, I, O or U), might actually be different in ANY way to their 'world'.

Their news programmes are pretty much made up of just local news, occasionally they may have something national on, but that's rare, but apart from maybe having something about Canada where they can score points (the only reason it's actually on), international news is a non-entity.

My biggest beef is the lack of senior management structure at the club. That should have been first priority, even over the football, and it's hard to see what their strategy was in the case of manager and DOF.

totally agree.     
 
And I am now despondent because I am starting to see their plan. 
 
It is no accident that Ayres is a yes-man.  Our owners don't want a Liverpool-based Chief Executive with control over the club.  Our yankee owners quite clearly are hands-on, despite being absentee owners, with fek all knowledge of football, nevermind the history of how Liverpool does things.   Our owners think they know best. 
 
And mark my words, I foresee them being like abramovich, i.e. sacking our manager every year or two.  They have no idea, that our success as a club, was built on continuity and age-old experience.  Indeed, look at the fortunes of Man Utd and Chelsea.  Man Utd have been awesomely successful under the guidance of one manager.  Chelsea, on the otherhand, despite throwing massive money at the problem, have had very poor return, trophy wise, on their financial outlay.
 
I cannot begin to tell you of the arrogance I have encountered.  It's bad enough encountering ignorance, but allied with arrogance, it's a very sickening mix to behold.
 
As Tes says, the world ends at yankee borders.  They know absolutely nothing about the rest of the world.  Indeed, they think that America is the finest nation on earth.  After shaking my head at their ignorance, I advise many of them to get a passport and travel some. 
 
After him asking me a question, I was stopped after a few words into my reply, and told by one Texan retiree fukwit, "in English!"
 
Don't mention universal healthcare, they think our NHS sucks (and that Brits come over to get operations in america).   I keep reminding them that america spends 16 percent of it's GDP on healthcare, while Britain (and the rest of the west) spends 8 percent....and we live, on average, 2 years longer than americans. 
 
they are brainwashed by big business and their TVs.  Totally brainwashed.  Totally consumerised.  Unless they are spending money at the mall they are not happy. 
 
they have no idea of how we are governed.   I had an angry interaction when yanks claimed that the UK was a country and Scotland was not (nor Wales, etc).  I advised them not to let a Scot hear them say that Scotland was not a country.
 
A few yanks were totally confused about the lyric in Eleanor Rigby:  "Eleanor Rigby died in the church and was buried along with her name"     I told them that the McCartney lyric referred to a common British term, where a childless person, who is the last in the family, dies (along with their name).    But no, they talked over me and wouldn;t listen. 
 
I cannot begin to express the arrogance of the american.   
 
When I know little or nothing about a subject, I listen.  Americans are the opposite.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 25, 2012, 05:13:34 PM

When I know little or nothing about a subject, I listen.  Americans are the opposite.

Dude, you are smart enough to understand and acknowledge your limitations. It's a strength. Whereas in the States they see it as a weakness. Says it all.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 25, 2012, 05:14:33 PM
Anyone else sick of Dave Whelans daily updates to the media on 'our' managerial search.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 25, 2012, 05:22:29 PM
Dude, you are smart enough to understand and acknowledge your limitations. It's a strength. Whereas in the States they see it as a weakness. Says it all.

agreed, Tes.     

And quietness, reflection and subtlety is not their forte.  That is why they usually do not get our British humour.  And it amazes me when they try and redo an American version of a show like The Office.

I do have one or two good friends from America.  But on the whole, I have not got anything good out of America.  It has no culture, no values, no respect for itself.   I find most of them ugly, not only on the outside, but also more importantly on the inside.   

And I have to say that in four years here, I have not honestly met one yankee lady that I fancied.......they usually endlessly yap away on trivial plastic issues.....and they are high maintenance. 



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 25, 2012, 05:26:13 PM
Anyone else sick of Dave Whelans daily updates to the media on 'our' managerial search.

I was gonna post the same sentiments.  Why does Martinez keep feeding him the latest news, when he knows it will be publically broadcast minutes later by Whelan to the world.   

Very worrying though to hear that Martinez has been offered the Liverpool job.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 25, 2012, 05:49:38 PM
I was gonna post the same sentiments.  Why does Martinez keep feeding him the latest news, when he knows it will be publically broadcast minutes later by Whelan to the world.   

Very worrying though to hear that Martinez has been offered the Liverpool job.

And why has no-one from the club had a word with renta-gob and told him we don't want our business fed to the media?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 25, 2012, 06:10:36 PM
And why has no-one from the club had a word with renta-gob and told him we don't want our business fed to the media?

indicates that FSG don't know/appreciate the way Liverpool always did their business.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 25, 2012, 08:41:40 PM
indicates that FSG don't know/appreciate the way Liverpool always did their business.

Or the political football landscape and hence the way the media work.

How will it make us look if after this panto Martinez turns us down?

Why is Whelan standing on the sidelines as a cheerleader? Does this solve a problem for him? He gets rid of a manager, without not only paying out, he will actually be receiving money for ridding himself of his manager.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 25, 2012, 10:32:59 PM
Or the political football landscape and hence the way the media work.

How will it make us look if after this panto Martinez turns us down?

Why is Whelan standing on the sidelines as a cheerleader? Does this solve a problem for him? He gets rid of a manager, without not only paying out, he will actually be receiving money for ridding himself of his manager.

yes, Martinez, according to Whelan, demands control.....so he could turn us down.    Though given how much he has whored himself for the Anfield job, it is unlikely he would turn such a once in a lifetime opportunity down.

As for Whelan, I cannot work it out.  Once you realise what someone is like, you stop alerting them to your activities and private thoughts.  And yet Whelan continues to have the inside track on all of Martinez's activities.
If Martinez is happy with this scenario, then is this what we can expect when he is in the Anfield hotseat?  i.e. endless insider media scoups.

Maybe Whelan is an old yorkshireman, who says what he likes, and likes what he says (I threw that old quote in for Martin to enjoy re a flavour of what some of our local folks in Britain are like)   ;)


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 25, 2012, 10:38:05 PM
But why is Whelan 'apparently' happy to lose his manager?  Are we doing him a favour and paying for the privilege?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 25, 2012, 11:04:35 PM
But why is Whelan 'apparently' happy to lose his manager?  Are we doing him a favour and paying for the privilege?

good question.

I know Whelan felt this day was always gonna come (where a big club would come calling).....maybe he has a father/son type relationship with roberto.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 25, 2012, 11:48:49 PM
Wasn't there a suggestion that Matinez was on rather thin ice just after Christmas?

I'm still failing to see what it is, after three years at Wigan, that Martinez has to offer that is so attractive.
If he'd had Wigan finishing constantly where Swansea have finished once, then I'd understand.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 26, 2012, 12:02:23 AM
If Martinez does get the job Id really love to see him prove us all wrong.
Dunno, i mean he'd have to run a league, Europa cup and two domestic cup campaigns
and best 4 of the top 7 teams in the division. Realistically, what could we expect from
someone coming from Wigan, whose remit is nowt other than to stay in the division? I'm
not trying to be negative either, just think it would take him a few seasons to adapt to the
demands and pressures. 

I mean this kind of appointment is unheard of for a top 4 club in Britain in the modern era,
Wenger, Fergie, Mourinho etc. Obviously someone (advisors) has been in Henry's ear about
Martinez extolling his virtues, but it's a gamble I'd expect from people who are deeply
experienced in the footballing world, not a bunch of newbies (just call Rafa and get on with
the stadium!).

Anyway his preferred formation would require some tweaking (despite what it says in this
article) and would have to be introduced gradually methinks:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1195564-liverpool-new-manager-how-would-roberto-martinezs-tactics-fit-around-the-reds
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 26, 2012, 09:26:54 AM
Dunno, i mean he'd have to run a league, Europa cup and two domestic cup campaigns
and best 4 of the top 7 teams in the division. Realistically, what could we expect from
someone coming from Wigan, whose remit is nowt other than to stay in the division? I'm
not trying to be negative either, just think it would take him a few seasons to adapt to the
demands and pressures. 

I mean this kind of appointment is unheard of for a top 4 club in Britain in the modern era,
Wenger, Fergie, Mourinho etc. Obviously someone (advisors) has been in Henry's ear about
Martinez extolling his virtues, but it's a gamble I'd expect from people who are deeply
experienced in the footballing world, not a bunch of newbies (just call Rafa and get on with
the stadium!).

Anyway his preferred formation would require some tweaking (despite what it says in this
article) and would have to be introduced gradually methinks:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1195564-liverpool-new-manager-how-would-roberto-martinezs-tactics-fit-around-the-reds

Yet you had faith in a manager who was out of the game for over a decade, recorded our worst points tally in 60 years, had us finish in our worst position in 18 years could turn it around. The same double-standards, hypocrisy and anti-intellectualism that ousted Roy seems to gather momentum once more.

It's sad really what modern footy and modern footy fandom have become to.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 26, 2012, 11:19:19 AM
Yet you had faith in a manager who was out of the game for over a decade, recorded our worst points tally in 60 years, had us finish in our worst position in 18 years could turn it around. The same double-standards, hypocrisy and anti-intellectualism that ousted Roy seems to gather momentum once more.

It's sad really what modern footy and modern footy fandom have become to.

Martin, that's the sentimentalism that comes from emotion. Being a football fan is all about sentiment and emotions. Once we've chosen our team or our team has chosen us, we're stuck. To some it makes sense, to others it's nonsense.
As individuals our emotions show themselves in different ways. Some of us see the collective, without individuals. For some, individuals have a more visible place.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 26, 2012, 11:45:02 AM
If Martinez does get the job Id really love to see him prove us all wrong.

Juan, it's not about us being right or wrong. I don't think any of us see what we write on here in that light.

We look at things and form opinions. I think most of us are just at least a bit puzzled about what it is that Martinez has that appeals to the owners. We may all find at least one positive about his club career to date, but we can't form a cogent argument as to why him above anyone else that may have the slightest interest in the job.

It goes without saying that we will all want him to succeed and if we see progress this season then that qualifies as success - of course there are different degrees of success. Personally, the best I can see us doing is challenging to be fourth or better. Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and Newcastle all did that this past season.
If we were to finish where Newcastle did, whilst I'd be disappointed (so near, yet so far etc etc) I won't be distraught or want the manager to be changed as we'd have seen progress.

Any improvement we make needs to be sustainable. I don't want us to scrape 4th next season, only to finish 8th the following one. There are at least six teams, seven if Newcastle repeat or build and progress, going for four places. All of them to a lesser or greater degree are better placed than us. Probably only Chelsea will start the season with a new manager, but that impediment is offset by the revenue available, whereas I don't see our new manager having the same luxury.

All the teams ahead of us face difficulties within the next few years. Managers at Arsenal, the Mancs and Spurs will need replacing due to age, City may self implode, Chelsea are equally unstable and Newcastle need to keep hold of, or adequately replace their better players. If we get this stage of our re-invention right we could get a major long term jump on all our rivals.
Look forward 5 seasons and the landscape may well look a whole lot different. Hopefully we'll be looking at something more picturesque, rather than 4 blank walls with no windows or doors, with a ceiling so high as to no be visible.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 26, 2012, 12:10:37 PM
All the teams ahead of us face difficulties within the next few years. Managers at Arsenal, the Mancs and Spurs will need replacing due to age, City may self implode, Chelsea are equally unstable and Newcastle need to keep hold of, or adequately replace their better players. If we get this stage of our re-invention right we could get a major long term jump on all our rivals.

Look forward 5 seasons and the landscape may well look a whole lot different. Hopefully we'll be looking at something more picturesque, rather than 4 blank walls with no windows or doors, with a ceiling so high as to no be visible.

who knows, maybe Martinez will turn out to be the next Arsene Wenger. 

if he gets the job, we will all want to see him do well. 

but should he get off to a bad start, or hit a bad run of form, the fans will get very restless very quickly......given that nobody wanted Martinez to start with.

I just see it as an enormous gamble, on someone (as you point out, Tes) who has no history of top level success.   

I suppose for those of us who are old enough to remember Wimbledon's many years in the top dividion, against all the odds.....well, Wigan are sort of a very poor man's Wimbledon.....and yet here we are, Liverpool FC appointing a poor man's Wimbledon's manager.

It pretty much sums up where we are, when one reflects that Villa are competing for Martinez's services too.

I fear history will say that Liverpool finally joined mid-table obscurity in the early 2010's with the appointment of a trilogy of poor managers, Hodgson, Dalglish and Martinez.

It is all so needless.  This massive risk is so so needless.   But it all boils down to the arrogance and incompetence of our absentee owners.  And I suggest that they are also control-freaks.  And it is one thing to be a control-freak in a business in which you have some expertise, but it is quite another thing, to be a control-freak in a business where you have fek-all knowledge or expertise.





Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 26, 2012, 01:33:08 PM
I fear history will say that Liverpool finally joined mid-table obscurity in the early 2010's with the appointment of a trilogy of poor managers, Hodgson, Dalglish and Martinez.


Dude, that sums up why some of us (you and I seem synchronised on a fair bit) of a certain age seem to feel the way we do. With age comes experience and a bank of knowledge (hopefully) that gets used when assessing things, isn't it.


Youth is wasted on the young and wisdom arrives too late in life.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 26, 2012, 01:54:54 PM
With age comes experience and a bank of knowledge (hopefully) that gets used when assessing things, isn't it.


Youth is wasted on the young and wisdom arrives too late in life.

absolutely, Tes.

as an only-child, and losing my parents in car accidents in the 1980's, I missed out on getting a lot of guidance and wisdom from my parents.  I have often wished that older, experienced people (like my dad) had been able to pass on advice re relationships/women/life etc to me.  I had to often learn about it myself, via difficult experiences and heartbreak.

an ability to listen is the key to learning.

and there is nothing new under the sun, thus history and events will repeat themselves, and it is experience and the wisdom that comes with it, that allows us to better assess and form good judgements.

you and I both see what is happening at Anfield.  The fall of a once great club is very sad to behold.....especially given how needless it is. 

the yanks won't listen, they know it all......arrogance and control-freakery personified.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 26, 2012, 04:03:57 PM
Yet you had faith in a manager who was out of the game for over a decade, recorded our worst points tally in 60 years, had us finish in our worst position in 18 years could turn it around. The same double-standards, hypocrisy and anti-intellectualism that ousted Roy seems to gather momentum once more.

It's sad really what modern footy and modern footy fandom have become to.
Yeah, i'd no problem giving Kenny another season and didn't have the appetite for changing manager.
Priorities for me were getting the scouting department right and progress on the the stadium. Tbh, if our
club is supposedly 1 season away from oblivion, then the problems lie elsewhere.

I thought that the treatment of Kenny in his final days was absolutely shocking. The sight of a club legend
been completely undermined by some guy, Tom Werner (top 4, top 4) and thrown to the media wolves before
having to traipse across the Atlantic to deliver his 'homework' and then returning alone (YNWA) in the full
glare of the media. Would it have killed mr. Henry to get on a plane and fly to Anfield to discuss the situation
behind closed doors. This search for a new manager is equally farcical, imo, with Dave f**king Whelan effectively
our new PR guy. Wtf does Ian Ayre know about football, the nerve of him dismissing 2 cup finals for a team in
transition. Kenny, Paisley had the mantra:

"One of the things I keep reminding players is that when you're lost in a fog you must stick together. Then
you don't get lost. If there's one secret to Liverpool, that's it."

Quite frankly i don't see that anymore. We're a franchise now, (the heart and soul has been jettisoned in the
most brutal of manners) with YNWA tacked on to sell shirts.

"At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it.
They are only there to sign the cheques."

Oh and here's an extract from the Wikipedia history of Ferguson's first few year in charge at United:

"United were expected to do well when Mark Hughes returned to the club two years after leaving for Barcelona, but the 1988–89 season was a disappointment for them, finishing eleventh in the league and losing 1–0 at home to Nottingham Forest in the FA Cup Sixth Round. They had begun the season slowly, going on a nine-match winless run throughout October and November (with one defeat and eight draws) before a run of generally good results took them to third place and the fringes of the title challenge by mid February. However, another run of disappointing results in the final quarter of the season saw them fall down to mid table.

During the season, United played in friendly matches against the Bermudan national team and Somerset County Cricket Club as part of the Bermudan team's tour of England. In the match against Somerset, both Ferguson himself and his assistant, Archie Knox, took to the field, with Knox even getting on the scoresheet. The match remains Ferguson's only appearance for the Manchester United first team.[citation needed]

For the 1989–90 season, Ferguson further boosted his squad by paying large sums of money for midfielders Neil Webb, Mike Phelan and Paul Ince, as well as defender Gary Pallister and winger Danny Wallace. The season began well with a 4–1 win over defending champions Arsenal on the opening day, but United's league form quickly turned sour. In September, United suffered a humiliating 5–1 away defeat against fierce rivals Manchester City. Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap...ta-ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[45][46] Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game", as United ended the decade just outside the relegation zone.[47][48]

However, Ferguson later revealed that the board of directors had assured him that they were not considering dismissing him. Although naturally disappointed with the lack of success in the league, they understood the reasons for the sub-standard results (namely the absence of several key players due to injury) and were pleased with the way that Ferguson had reorganised the club's coaching and scouting system."

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 26, 2012, 07:56:41 PM
but should he get off to a bad start, or hit a bad run of form, the fans will get very restless very quickly......given that nobody wanted Martinez to start with.

So this is what we've become. A mob not knowing its place in the system. "we want this, we want that". I'm fornicating losing interest in this club that I supported for well over 30 years by the fornicating minute. Mothafcku!!!!! What is this craaaaaaaaaaaaap! Which fans "wanted" Shanks? Which fans "wanted" Sir Bob"? Back fukin then people knew their place and went with it. Lets bring the fukin King back, it all went so fikin good. I'm fukin losin it!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 26, 2012, 07:59:19 PM
Yeah, i'd no problem giving Kenny another season and didn't have the appetite for changing manager.
Priorities for me were getting the scouting department right and progress on the the stadium. Tbh, if our
club is supposedly 1 season away from oblivion, then the problems lie elsewhere.

I thought that the treatment of Kenny in his final days was absolutely shocking. The sight of a club legend
been completely undermined by some guy, Tom Werner (top 4, top 4) and thrown to the media wolves before
having to traipse across the Atlantic to deliver his 'homework' and then returning alone (YNWA) in the full
glare of the media. Would it have killed mr. Henry to get on a plane and fly to Anfield to discuss the situation
behind closed doors. This search for a new manager is equally farcical, imo, with Dave f**king Whelan effectively
our new PR guy. Wtf does Ian Ayre know about football, the nerve of him dismissing 2 cup finals for a team in
transition. Kenny, Paisley had the mantra:

"One of the things I keep reminding players is that when you're lost in a fog you must stick together. Then
you don't get lost. If there's one secret to Liverpool, that's it."

Quite frankly i don't see that anymore. We're a franchise now, (the heart and soul has been jettisoned in the
most brutal of manners) with YNWA tacked on to sell shirts.

"At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it.
They are only there to sign the cheques."

Oh and here's an extract from the Wikipedia history of Ferguson's first few year in charge at United:

"United were expected to do well when Mark Hughes returned to the club two years after leaving for Barcelona, but the 1988–89 season was a disappointment for them, finishing eleventh in the league and losing 1–0 at home to Nottingham Forest in the FA Cup Sixth Round. They had begun the season slowly, going on a nine-match winless run throughout October and November (with one defeat and eight draws) before a run of generally good results took them to third place and the fringes of the title challenge by mid February. However, another run of disappointing results in the final quarter of the season saw them fall down to mid table.

During the season, United played in friendly matches against the Bermudan national team and Somerset County Cricket Club as part of the Bermudan team's tour of England. In the match against Somerset, both Ferguson himself and his assistant, Archie Knox, took to the field, with Knox even getting on the scoresheet. The match remains Ferguson's only appearance for the Manchester United first team.[citation needed]

For the 1989–90 season, Ferguson further boosted his squad by paying large sums of money for midfielders Neil Webb, Mike Phelan and Paul Ince, as well as defender Gary Pallister and winger Danny Wallace. The season began well with a 4–1 win over defending champions Arsenal on the opening day, but United's league form quickly turned sour. In September, United suffered a humiliating 5–1 away defeat against fierce rivals Manchester City. Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap...ta-ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[45][46] Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game", as United ended the decade just outside the relegation zone.[47][48]

However, Ferguson later revealed that the board of directors had assured him that they were not considering dismissing him. Although naturally disappointed with the lack of success in the league, they understood the reasons for the sub-standard results (namely the absence of several key players due to injury) and were pleased with the way that Ferguson had reorganised the club's coaching and scouting system."



Oh, hindsight! Thank God you're there to save me from being an intellectual creature, thank you for helping me keeping my head well stuck in the sand.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 26, 2012, 08:45:43 PM
Martin you'll be pleased to know that Brendan Rodgers, with some bookies, is now the favourite to be manager, and some sources are suggesting he'll speak to FSG next week.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 26, 2012, 09:48:47 PM
Martin you'll be pleased to know that Brendan Rodgers, with some bookies, is now the favourite to be manager, and some sources are suggesting he'll speak to FSG next week.

Interesting. Do I smell a Martinez scented smokescreen.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 26, 2012, 10:06:00 PM
Martin you'll be pleased to know that Brendan Rodgers, with some bookies, is now the favourite to be manager, and some sources are suggesting he'll speak to FSG next week.

Hmmm, interesting. Me suspects Martinez has insisted on complete control and the owners have refused. So they're trying a DoF on Rogers. I wonder what his take will be. It might be a bit hard to agree to work with a DoF when you don't know who that is.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 26, 2012, 10:12:14 PM
It might be a bit hard to agree to work with a DoF when you don't know who that is.

Ray, their sacking of one of the DOF and manager is beginning to look a bit ill thought out, almost amateurish.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 26, 2012, 10:54:28 PM
Ray, their sacking of one of the DOF and manager is beginning to look a bit ill thought out, almost amateurish.

I agree Tes. But which one should be installed first? You could choose the manager first and tell him there's a DoF coming in but sorry, we can't tell you who that might be. Or you install a DoF and he asks who the manager will be. Sorry mate, we don't know yet but will you join us? Hmmm, sorry, no. Not until I know who the manager is.

A bit like a dog chasing its tail! That's why Mr Henry, we don't have DoFs in England! Comprende?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 26, 2012, 10:59:03 PM
Martin you'll be pleased to know that Brendan Rodgers, with some bookies, is now the favourite to be manager, and some sources are suggesting he'll speak to FSG next week.

I am pleased to hear that Ed mate, especially as it comes from you!  :) I always thought it was an ill-adwised move to call him like a dog for an interview. He deserves to be on a shortlitst of no more than 3 candidates. There's still hope I from what you're writing.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 26, 2012, 11:03:27 PM
Ray, their sacking of one of the DOF and manager is beginning to look a bit ill thought out, almost amateurish.

Oi Tes, I thought me was Dr. Sadness of this forum! Please!!!!

Seriously, not that I pretend to be the Ray of this place, but this total dissing of the owners might prove a tad premature. They bought this club for 300 million and invested another 100 and you make it sound as if they're a bunch of people struck with Alzeihmers calling the shots.

With Brendan at the helm it the DOF position becomes of secondary and academic interest.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 26, 2012, 11:25:12 PM
I am pleased to hear that Ed mate, especially as it comes from you!  :) I always thought it was an ill-adwised move to call him like a dog for an interview. He deserves to be on a shortlitst of no more than 3 candidates. There's still hope I from what you're writing.

There are, at this moment in time, only 2 candidates. Martinez and Rodgers.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 26, 2012, 11:27:29 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9292139/Liverpool-oweners-Fenway-Sports-Group-sounding-out-experienced-Dutchman-Louis-van-Gaal-for-senior-role.html

Liverpool oweners Fenway Sports Group sounding out experienced Dutchman Louis van Gaal for senior role
Liverpool have made the first steps towards appointing Louis van Gaal as sporting director after meeting with him in Portugal last week.



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


 :(

I am not a Van Gaal lover. I find him an extremely overrated manager ever since his barca stint where he invested £100m odd on shine-a-light dutchmen.




Simon Clancy ‏@SiClancy
Seems like Van Gaal will be hard to keep away from the dugout as he wants to appoint Frans Hoek, who was Reina's goalkeeping coach @ Barca
Retweeted by Jim Boardman
Expand
 Reply  Retweet  Favorite
9m Simon Clancy ‏@SiClancy
The Telegraph report that and also say that FSG were interested in appointing Roberto Martinez to replace Comolli as DoF when DC was sacked.
Retweeted by Jim Boardman
Expand
 Reply  Retweet  Favorite
10m Simon Clancy ‏@SiClancy
Louis Van Gaal met with Ian Ayre in Portugal on Thursday at his house in Albuferia.

:( :( :(
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 26, 2012, 11:45:38 PM
Just saw that article. I agree Van Gaal would signal trouble's on the way.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 27, 2012, 12:00:24 AM
Van Gaal (as manager) would be a far far better option than Martinez.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 27, 2012, 12:53:21 AM
Van Gaal (as manager) would be a far far better option than Martinez.

Word!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 27, 2012, 01:16:56 AM
Word!

Excel!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 27, 2012, 02:13:03 AM
Yeah, i'd no problem giving Kenny another season and didn't have the appetite for changing manager.
Priorities for me were getting the scouting department right and progress on the the stadium. Tbh, if our
club is supposedly 1 season away from oblivion, then the problems lie elsewhere.

I thought that the treatment of Kenny in his final days was absolutely shocking. The sight of a club legend
been completely undermined by some guy, Tom Werner (top 4, top 4) and thrown to the media wolves before
having to traipse across the Atlantic to deliver his 'homework' and then returning alone (YNWA) in the full
glare of the media. Would it have killed mr. Henry to get on a plane and fly to Anfield to discuss the situation
behind closed doors. This search for a new manager is equally farcical, imo, with Dave f**king Whelan effectively
our new PR guy. Wtf does Ian Ayre know about football, the nerve of him dismissing 2 cup finals for a team in
transition. Kenny, Paisley had the mantra:

"One of the things I keep reminding players is that when you're lost in a fog you must stick together. Then
you don't get lost. If there's one secret to Liverpool, that's it."

Quite frankly i don't see that anymore. We're a franchise now, (the heart and soul has been jettisoned in the
most brutal of manners) with YNWA tacked on to sell shirts.

"At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it.
They are only there to sign the cheques."

FSGs treatment of Kenny was horrendous alright. I didnt think he was being sacked just because I thought they would never drag him to America to tell him the game was up.

And as you say the procession to appoint a new manager is turning into a joke.

If Henry and Werner were in England to do any potential interviewing it would have avoided the media circus that they have created along with keeping potential candidates under a low profile.

Im not sure what Dave whelans game is either. Hes either being very disrespectful by making the media very aware of our business or hes trying to play a very dangerous game of attempting to blow Martinezs chances. If I were FSG I wouldnt tolerate whats coming out in the media from Martinez's, Whelans or Wigans camp whichever one is leaking it.

As for Kenny getting another season, I would have settled for it but I can also understand why FSG feel the need to change. That said I cant believe FSG have fired Kenny not only without a top manager lined up to replace him but without aeven so much as a decent plan in place to replace the guy. Its been amateurish and in the space of about 2 days Ive gone from being happy with the owners to completely disillusioned as their intentions for the club. They dont seem to give a sh*t. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 27, 2012, 04:23:30 AM
FSGs treatment of Kenny was horrendous alright. I didnt think he was being sacked just because I thought they would never drag him to America to tell him the game was up.

And as you say the procession to appoint a new manager is turning into a joke.

If Henry and Werner were in England to do any potential interviewing it would have avoided the media circus that they have created along with keeping potential candidates under a low profile.

Im not sure what Dave whelans game is either. Hes either being very disrespectful by making the media very aware of our business or hes trying to play a very dangerous game of attempting to blow Martinezs chances. If I were FSG I wouldnt tolerate whats coming out in the media from Martinez's, Whelans or Wigans camp whichever one is leaking it.

As for Kenny getting another season, I would have settled for it but I can also understand why FSG feel the need to change. That said I cant believe FSG have fired Kenny not only without a top manager lined up to replace him but without aeven so much as a decent plan in place to replace the guy. Its been amateurish and in the space of about 2 days Ive gone from being happy with the owners to completely disillusioned as their intentions for the club. They dont seem to give a sh*t. 
Juan, agree with most of that.

Anyone who thinks that flavour of the month Martinez and/or Rodgers are capable of winning
the premiership in the next 3 years (or ever?) is living in cloud f**king cuckoo land. Drinking
Kool-aid believing the hype. It's not even being disrespectful to them. They've worked well at
small clubs on small budgets, credit to them. Their chairmen love them and why wouldn't they.
LFC, on the other hand is a mammoth project requiring a special person. Maintain top 4, run a
Champions league campaign, win some silverware in the full glare of the media is the job
description. Every season. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 27, 2012, 08:06:51 AM
Excel!

Negro, please!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 27, 2012, 10:56:37 AM
Juan, agree with most of that.

Anyone who thinks that flavour of the month Martinez and/or Rodgers are capable of winning
the premiership in the next 3 years (or ever?) is living in cloud f**king cuckoo land. Drinking
Kool-aid believing the hype. It's not even being disrespectful to them. They've worked well at
small clubs on small budgets, credit to them. Their chairmen love them and why wouldn't they.
LFC, on the other hand is a mammoth project requiring a special person. Maintain top 4, run a
Champions league campaign, win some silverware in the full glare of the media is the job
description. Every season.

I dont doubt that Rodgers or Martinez could potentially be the real deal. Like not all top managers get to go straight in at the top so i wouldnt like to discount anyones pedigree because of the size of the club they are coming from. Its just hard to swallow the limited experience of the candidates. I suppose the real fact is im finding it hard to come to terms with the fact that managers nowadays potentially see us as a stepping stone in their career rather than the pinnacle of it.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 27, 2012, 11:05:32 AM
Negro, please!

fruit merchant!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 27, 2012, 01:14:39 PM
fruit merchant!

Touché!  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 27, 2012, 01:42:21 PM
I suppose the real fact is im finding it hard to come to terms with the fact that managers nowadays potentially see us as a stepping stone in their career rather than the pinnacle of it.

Juan, it is where we are at the moment. We have to earn our right to be back at the top of the pyramid
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 27, 2012, 02:02:47 PM
I agree Tes. But which one should be installed first? You could choose the manager first and tell him there's a DoF coming in but sorry, we can't tell you who that might be. Or you install a DoF and he asks who the manager will be. Sorry mate, we don't know yet but will you join us? Hmmm, sorry, no. Not until I know who the manager is.

A bit like a dog chasing its tail! That's why Mr Henry, we don't have DoFs in England! Comprende?

We had one of them after Commolli's sacking. Replace and revise the DOF/Sporting Director's position, then any incoming manager/coach knows the situation from first approach.

The way it seems to work is that the DOF/SD tends to be the one that remains in place creating continuity, whilst the coach is the most important member on the football side as he has the direct responsibility and accountability for results ultimately. I think with it being such seismic shift in setup, FSG could at least explain their rationale behind the move away from the accepted methods clubs employ in this country, especially as their targets appear to be British based managers used to working under 'our' system.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 27, 2012, 05:48:12 PM
Like not all top managers get to go straight in at the top so i wouldnt like to discount anyones pedigree because of the size of the club they are coming from.
Takes time though, especially with guys effectively learning their trade. Managing
campaigns is what it's all about and these guys, like you say, have no experience
at that. Presumably at the bottom end of the league it's acceptable to jettison cups
early and focus primarily on survival in the league (all eggs in one basket).

24th August 2011
"Swans boss Brendan Rodgers offered no excuses for his players as they crashed out of the
Carling Cup against League Two side Shrewsbury."


28th January 2012
Regarding exit to Bolton, 4th round FA cup
"Brendan made ten changes to the side that were beaten at Sunderland last weekend"


13 September 2011
"Darren Ambrose and Jonathan Williams scored to help Crystal Palace to a shock Carling Cup
win over Premier League side Wigan."


7th of January 2012
Regarding exit to Swindon, 3rd round FA cup
"Martínez made nine changes to the Wigan team who lost to Sunderland in midweek but still expected
to progress against a team who strive to play a similar style of passing football, but three levels lower."


Next stop Liverpool Football club...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 27, 2012, 07:32:18 PM
Takes time though, especially with guys effectively learning their trade. Managing
campaigns is what it's all about and these guys, like you say, have no experience
at that. Presumably at the bottom end of the league it's acceptable to jettison cups
early and focus primarily on survival in the league (all eggs in one basket).

24th August 2011
"Swans boss Brendan Rodgers offered no excuses for his players as they crashed out of the
Carling Cup against League Two side Shrewsbury."


28th January 2012
Regarding exit to Bolton, 4th round FA cup
"Brendan made ten changes to the side that were beaten at Sunderland last weekend"


13 September 2011
"Darren Ambrose and Jonathan Williams scored to help Crystal Palace to a shock Carling Cup
win over Premier League side Wigan."


7th of January 2012
Regarding exit to Swindon, 3rd round FA cup
"Martínez made nine changes to the Wigan team who lost to Sunderland in midweek but still expected
to progress against a team who strive to play a similar style of passing football, but three levels lower."


Next stop Liverpool Football club...

I don't know if there's enough space on this website to list all the catastrophic games your hero forced us to endure during the season despite wasting 112 million.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 27, 2012, 08:17:36 PM
The way it seems to work is that the DOF/SD tends to be the one that remains in place creating continuity, whilst the coach is the most important member on the football side as he has the direct responsibility and accountability for results ultimately. I think with it being such seismic shift in setup, FSG could at least explain their rationale behind the move away from the accepted methods clubs employ in this country, especially as their targets appear to be British based managers used to working under 'our' system.
Choosing someone as a DoF who aspires to being a manager does not bode well. He could well undermine the managers role for his own ends. If they have such faith in van Gaal then make him manager and dispense with a DoF. They really should listen to Dein because I'm sure he's not advocating a DoF post. And as you say Tes, some explanation to the fans of what their plan is would help get us on side.

And Whelan's cheek has no limits! He's now calling a press conference for Tuesday to announce if his manager is staying or going. That totaly undermines the LFC announcement. I see he's friends with Ferguson who's probably put him up to all of this giving his loathing for our club.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 27, 2012, 08:46:57 PM
Anyone who thinks that we are capable of winning the premiership in the next 3 years is living in cloud f**king cuckoo land.

Couldn't agree more, Ed.  ;D    A reality injection.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 27, 2012, 09:48:13 PM
Choosing someone as a DoF who aspires to being a manager does not bode well. He could well undermine the managers role for his own ends. If they have such faith in van Gaal then make him manager and dispense with a DoF. They really should listen to Dein because I'm sure he's not advocating a DoF post. And as you say Tes, some explanation to the fans of what their plan is would help get us on side.

Ray, slow down, far, far too much common sense there, my friend.  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 27, 2012, 11:30:08 PM
Liverpool will talk to Swansea manager Brendan Rodgers about the vacancy left by Kenny Dalglish's sacking

By Luke Edwards 6:00PM BST 27 May 2012


The Swansea City manager has emerged as the biggest rival to Wigan Athletic's Roberto Martínez, with suggestions the Spaniard is not happy at the prospect of working under a director of football who would have a major, and possibly, final say in the club’s transfer policy.

Liverpool managing director Ian Ayre has already met former Holland manager Louis van Gaal to sound him out about filling the sporting director role and the club seem determined to operate a two-tier management structure.

Van Gaal had talkswith Ayre in Portugal last week and there have been claims the Dutchman has also discussed moving to Merseyside alongside his former assistant Andries Jonker, who has announced he will be leaving Bayern Munich this summer.

Van Gaal is a highly respected figure in European football having won titles in Spain, Holland and Germany with Barcelona, Ajax and Bayern Munich and has had a long-standing desire to test himself in England.

Dutch coach Bert van Marwijk has expressed an interest in the vacancy and would be willing to work under his compatriot, although Liverpool are not thought to be interested in speaking to him at this stage.

Martínez, who has complete authority as manager at Wigan and takes an active interest in every level of the club’s internal structure, could be reluctant to operate without control of recruitment at Anfield.

Wigan chairman Dave Whelan hinted last week that Martínezhad sought assurances about the extent of his power should he accept the job, which appears to have reopened the door for Rodgers.

Martínez has been interviewed twice by Liverpool’s owners, Fenway Sports, and there were suggestions over the weekend he would be unveiled as Liverpool’s new manager on Tuesday.

They appear to have been premature and Liverpool will instead look to speak to Rodgers as they refuse to be rushed into making a decision.

Although there has been pressure for a quick appointment following the sacking of Dalglish, Rogers has always been in Liverpool’s thinking after achieving so much at Swansea following promotion to the top flight.

Like Martínez, Liverpool have not just admired the results Rodgers has achieved with limited resources in south Wales, but also the attractive style of football useded to do it.

Should van Gaal accept a senior role where he can advise the man in the dugout, Liverpool’s preference is for a young dynamic manager to shape the team on the pitch.

In turn, Aston Villa have paused in their hunt for a new manager as they would also like to speak to Martínez, even though he turned down the job last summer to stay at the DW Stadium.

Villa owner Randy Lerner’s admiration for Martínez has soared since their meeting almost 12 months ago after he guided Wigan to Premier League safety, despite Villa signing their best player, Charles N’Zogbia, for £12 million last summer.
 


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9293502/Liverpool-will-talk-to-Swansea-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-about-the-vacancy-left-by-Kenny-Dalglishs-sacking.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9293502/Liverpool-will-talk-to-Swansea-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-about-the-vacancy-left-by-Kenny-Dalglishs-sacking.html)

So we have a manager that's got his team to a World Cup Final, a coach who's multi-titled in several countries and a manager who's split the duoply in Spain twice and won both European trophies, all interested in the job and yet the pre-qualification appears to be the youthfulness of the candidate. Interesting.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 27, 2012, 11:55:55 PM

and yet the pre-qualification appears to be the youthfulness of the candidate. Interesting.


Geez, get this guy an interview (I think it's Lucas's kid), the baby tiger could be the DoF

(http://distilleryimage0.instagram.com/3062550aa84b11e1be6a12313820455d_7.jpg)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 12:05:17 AM
Geez, get this guy an interview (I think it's Lucas's kid), the baby tiger could be the DoF

(http://distilleryimage0.instagram.com/3062550aa84b11e1be6a12313820455d_7.jpg)

Nah, he'll be too old, too soon and we'll be looking again for toddler manager. I like the Tigger idea though. 'The Tigger bounce'.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 05:02:50 AM
is Whelan deliberately trying to ruin Martinez's chances of getting the Liverpool job (or any top job)?

if Liverpool pull the plug on Martinez, one would have to ask where that leaves the relationship between Martinez and Whelan.

Martinez needs to find himself better friends in England.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 28, 2012, 08:53:48 AM
So we have a manager that's got his team to a World Cup Final, a coach who's multi-titled in several countries and a manager who's split the duoply in Spain twice and won both European trophies, all interested in the job and yet the pre-qualification appears to be the youthfulness of the candidate. Interesting.

Hmmm, as much as I'd love for us to have a Taggart type of persona that could come in and run the club in a Shanklyesque mannaer, rather than this dual leadership that is now being suggested, I really think you're oversimplyfying things in that post Tes. Save for Van Gaal none of the other two could realistically build for the future. Oh, and Holland's place in the 2010 WC final was surely the most undeserved in history. Rafa just isn't the right man. He's brilliant in Europe but will never get us to tick in the CL. Back then it really was the big 4. Yet he failed to finish 4th or better in 2 of his 6 seasons in charge. Bertie I don't know enough about to have an informed opinion which may speak for itself.

Me too am worried about this new structure but I think way way too much negative energy's being invested and doomsday conclusions are being drawn a tad prematurely for me to recognise this place. Hell, I feel like I'm the only sunshine in here these day!!! :o
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 28, 2012, 09:06:55 AM
Sweet jesus this is surely way off. Talksports contact in the US are trying to claim that Jurgen Klopp will be installed at Lfc this week. As Director of football. This guy is trying to claim that Fsg want to set up an american style sports structure at the club where they would employ someone like rogers or martinez as manager ( but effectively first team coach) with klopp as dof or equivillent to grneral manager in the Us with most of the power.  I cant see anyone being intetested in that be it klopp martinez or rogers.

Have a listen. Farcical if true;

talksport.co.uk/radio/extra-time/120528/kreger-jurgen-klopps-liverpool-future-173068
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 10:15:53 AM
Oh, and Holland's place in the 2010 WC final was surely the most undeserved in history. Rafa just isn't the right man. He's brilliant in Europe but will never get us to tick in the CL. Back then it really was the big 4. Yet he failed to finish 4th or better in 2 of his 6 seasons in charge.

how many times has Rodgers failed to finish 4th or better, in the last 6 seasons?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 28, 2012, 10:27:28 AM
how many times has Rodgers failed to finish 4th or better, in the last 6 seasons?

If that retrospective perspective is the sole criteria for finding a manger we're really left with three options - Fergie, Mourinho, Del Bosque.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 10:53:17 AM
If that retrospective perspective is the sole criteria for finding a manger

so you advocate that we ignore successful people, and instead employ people who have won fek all?

goodness, I'd hate to have you as a colleague, beside me, on an interview panel.   The organisation would soon go down the tubes.

 

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 28, 2012, 12:13:36 PM
so you advocate that we ignore successful people, and instead employ people who have won fek all?

goodness, I'd hate to have you as a colleague, beside me, on an interview panel.   The organisation would soon go down the tubes.

Quite to the contrary I honestly think you'd come to love it. For over 4 years I've been working for the national health agency organising and structuring highly specialised services. From day one Karolinska University hospital (the Nobel Prize you know) said "we're the best because we're Karolinska and because we always did this treatment or therapy". We, on the other hand looked to the future and what other university hospitals could offer in terms of developing, for instance, heart transplants. I've been responsible for developing the tool by which we certify that the organsation of the hospitals is up to date, future safe an'all. We decided to close down the heart transplants in Stockholm because we believed it was better to look to the future rather than dwelling on the past. It didn't mean we ignored past success, just that the potential to reproduce it in the future was of bigger concern to us.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 03:04:42 PM
Martin, I see your point, but don't you see the huge risk factor of appointing a manager who's only 'title' is promotion or avoiding relegation against the odds.

The future atm is about three years in length. If we don't get ourselves re-established in the top four with the CL income then the boat will have sailed forever without us on it. If FFP has even gums, nevermind teeth that's the future we.

I'd rather have someone to re-establish us and hand over from a position of strength, than hope an inexperienced manager can get us there within the timeframe.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 03:12:14 PM
Sweet jesus this is surely way off. Talksports contact in the US are trying to claim that Jurgen Klopp will be installed at Lfc this week. As Director of football. This guy is trying to claim that Fsg want to set up an american style sports structure at the club where they would employ someone like rogers or martinez as manager ( but effectively first team coach) with klopp as dof or equivillent to grneral manager in the Us with most of the power.  I cant see anyone being intetested in that be it klopp martinez or rogers.

Have a listen. Farcical if true;

talksport.co.uk/radio/extra-time/120528/kreger-jurgen-klopps-liverpool-future-173068

It's as though the DOF will be the 'manager' as we know and understand it and the 'manager' appointed below him will simply be a glorified first team coach, with no responsibility other than to fashion the first team squad into a winning team. He may get to ask for players in positions he deems needs strengthening, but even that may get overruled by the DOF. Klopp is more a coach than an in-charge-of-all 'manager' and Martinez hardly has the club building breadth of experience required. He may the theories and ideas but hasn't been at a club long enough to prove the validity of his thoughts.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 03:22:57 PM
Borrusia Dortmund have a 'sporting director' called Michael Zorc, so Klopp is not even a 'manager', so what qualification does he have to be a DOF?

Surely Kreger's got his positions the wrong way round.

Sounding more like a 'Nightmare on Anfield Road'.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 03:28:14 PM
I feel like I'm the only sunshine in here these day!!! :o

 8) Martin's in the house guys, reach for the shades.  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 04:57:42 PM
A bit more on Martinez's record:

Having eacped relegation on the last day of the 2010/11 season, Wigan started last season with 8 straight defeats and failed to win at home for 7 months. They also only won 4 matches between August and February.
They manage to record only 5 home victories and last season was their 7th successive season in the PL.

Set against that they've had the lowest footballing budget (transfers and wages) for the last two seasons in succession in the whole of the PL, and sold arguably their best player in the last two Summers (Valencia and N'Zogbia).
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 05:04:00 PM
Wigan set new Martinez deadline

May 28, 2012


Wigan Athletic chairman Dave Whelan wants to know by Thursday whether Roberto Martinez will be appointed as the new Liverpool boss.

Whelan is keen to keep Martinez at the Latics helm, despite allowing the Reds to speak to the Spaniard about becoming sacked Kenny Dalglish's successor.

Martinez met Anfield chiefs last week to discuss the vacant role, with Whelan indicating he wanted a final decision this Tuesday.

But he is now prepared wait an extra 48 hours after revealing Martinez is set for a second Reds meeting.

"Roberto has told me he is speaking with Liverpool again on Tuesday," Whelan told ESPN.

"I have now made it clear that I want this sorted out by Thursday at the latest as we have to get on preparing for next season."

Whelan also remains hopeful Liverpool will turn to Swansea City boss Brendan Rodgers instead of Martinez.

Reports have suggested the Merseyside giants will make another approach for Rodgers, who initially turned down the opportunity to discuss the vacant role with owner John W Henry.

Swansea chairman Huw Jenkins dismissed these claims on Monday - but Whelan hopes they prove to be correct.**

He said: "If it is true that Liverpool want to speak with Brendan Rodgers it proves they don't know who they want as manager.

"I hope they choose Brendan Rodgers."


http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7783758/ (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7783758/)

**http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/28/swansea-liverpool-brendan-rogers (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/28/swansea-liverpool-brendan-rogers)

Am I just being cynical but does 'Dodgy Dave' seem like he's not putting a 100% into the fight to keep Martinez?

And what is the truth surrounding Rodgers? Clear as a foggy day on the Lancashire moors.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 05:10:38 PM
Louis van Gaal says he's joining Liverpool as Martinez considers offer

Louis van Gaal believes that Liverpool will make an official announcement of his appointment at the club by the end of the week.

However, it is still unclear whether he will be the manager of the Anfield club or a sporting director.

Liverpool currently have two vacancies after Damien Comolli and Kenny Dalglish left the Merseyside club and the owners have been in discussions with a number of candidates for each job.

The Dutchman has told those close to him that he is considering an offer from Fenway Sports Group (FSG), the owners of Liverpool.

Despite being initially approached about the sporting director role, Van Gaal has made it clear he would be happy to succeed King Kenny in the Anfield dugout.

There is still confusion over the situation as outspoken Wigan chairman Dave Whelan has claimed that Latics boss Roberto Martinez has been offered the manager's role at Liverpool.

He met with the owners in Miami earlier this week about the role and it is thought he would not be happy to work under a sporting director.

Swansea's Brendan Rodgers, Jürgen Klopp of Borussia Dortmund and Ajax's Frank de Boer have all turned down the opportunity to discuss a move to Anfield.


http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/900415-louis-van-gaal-says-hes-joining-liverpool-as-martinez-considers-offer (http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/900415-louis-van-gaal-says-hes-joining-liverpool-as-martinez-considers-offer)

Anfield L4, the official capital of the state of confusion.

I realise it's only the Metro, but it's being carried on several other websites, with no reference to the Metro as being the source of the information.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 05:16:04 PM
Shock horror:

Roy Keane would leap at chance to manage Liverpool

Roy Keane has made an admission that might stun fans of former club Manchester United, revealing he would jump at the chance of managing Liverpool.

Keane is a legend at United, winning seven Premier League titles, four FA Cups and a Champions League crown during his time at Old Trafford. A no-nonsense skipper, Keane's belligerent style was loved by United fans and despised by rivals Liverpool.

His final United game was actually played at Anfield, when a challenge from Luis Garcia forced the midfielder off the pitch. Since then Keane has been frequently critical of United, who he still demands exceptionally high standards of in his current punditry role.

It is highly unlikely he would ever be considered as Kenny Dalglish's successor at Liverpool, but Keane offered advice to Roberto Martinez and Brendan Rodgers, both linked to the Anfield vacancy. In Keane's mind, either man would be foolish to turn down a job offer to stay with Wigan and Swansea respectively.

"Timing is everything for a manager - far more important than for a player. That's why the likes of Roberto Martinez and Brendan Rodgers have to think carefully about their next move.

"I'm speaking from experience. In my last season at Sunderland we were talking about a new contract after we made a decent start. Four weeks later I was out of a job. You can be hailed as the next best thing one minute then the next thing you know you're sacked.

"Now is the time for [Martinez] to go and if I were him I'd jump at the chance to go to Liverpool. It might not be the best time in the club's history but it's still a great job.

"Liverpool will always be a bigger club than either Swansea or Wigan and if a chance comes to go there, you've got to take it because it might never come around again.

"Put it this way, I'd take it and my mobile is on."


http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/152841.html?CMP=OTC-RSS# (http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/152841.html?CMP=OTC-RSS#)

Ha!! As if FSG would even want to ring Roy's mobile.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 05:47:47 PM
Louis van Gaal says he's joining Liverpool as Martinez considers offer

However, it is still unclear whether he will be the manager of the Anfield club or a sporting director.


like I have been saying for a while, FSG are making it up as the go along.....policy being made on the hoof.

Selwyn Froggitt could do a better job if he owned the club.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 06:05:17 PM
like I have been saying for a while, FSG are making it up as the go along.....policy being made on the hoof.

Selwyn Froggitt could do a better job if he owned the club.

'Selwyn Froggitt's on the run, nevermind'. :D

Dude, it certainly 'feels' like it. I'm hoping it's a more a case that the media are thrashing around trying to figure out what could be happening, and FSG had a clear plan, and a clear idea of who and in what order of preference, and things are leak tight from their end, at least, causing the media to play their usual game.

How reliable is Whelan's information is the key.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 06:15:46 PM
'Selwyn Froggitt's on the run, nevermind'. :D

Dude, it certainly 'feels' like it. I'm hoping it's a more a case that the media are thrashing around trying to figure out what could be happening, and FSG had a clear plan, and a clear idea of who and in what order of preference, and things are leak tight from their end, at least, causing the media to play their usual game.

How reliable is Whelan's information is the key.

selwyn froggitt in charge of Boston Redsox baseball team.....there's imagary for ye.   The yanks would need sub-titles to understand selwyn.

whelan is undermining his manager, at every step of the way.

yes, perhaps FSG have a masterplan.........but it sure doesn;t feel like it....with a ridiculous DoF role setup....and constant sackings, change and nobody of any experience being interviewed for the manager's job.



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 06:35:42 PM
Wigan chairman Dave Whelan has given boss Roberto Martinez until Thursday to make a decision on his future.

Whelan told ESPN: "If it is true that Liverpool want to speak with Brendan Rodgers it proves they don't know who they want as manager. I hope they choose Brendan Rodgers.

"Roberto has told me he is speaking with Liverpool again on Tuesday.

"I have now made it clear that I want this sorted out by Thursday at the latest as we have to get on preparing for next season."


MEANWHILE OVER IN WALES....

The Swansea City chairman, Huw Jenkins, has dismissed reports that the manager Brendan Rodgers will meet Liverpool's owners to talk about the vacancy at Anfield as "pure speculation".

Swansea issued a short statement insisting there had been no contact. "We would like to clarify the speculation in the press surrounding our manager Brendan Rodgers," it said. "We would like to confirm that there has been no contact from Liverpool and nothing has changed since our previous statement on the issue."
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 06:38:30 PM
the yanks are amateurs.  They are making public as.ses of themselves in the British media.

they have a helluva lot to learn, when it comes to media management and how to run a football club in Britain.

their arrogance was their achilles heel.....they knew it all.......now looks like they know precious little.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 28, 2012, 06:54:38 PM
A bit more on Martinez's record:

Having eacped relegation on the last day of the 2010/11 season, Wigan started last season with 8 straight defeats and failed to win at home for 7 months. They also only won 4 matches between August and February.
They manage to record only 5 home victories and last season was their 7th successive season in the PL.

Set against that they've had the lowest footballing budget (transfers and wages) for the last two seasons in succession in the whole of the PL, and sold arguably their best player in the last two Summers (Valencia and N'Zogbia).
That's what I like to see, a more balanced and objective appraisal of contenders.

There appears to be an argument that Martinez plays nice football (ditto Rodgers, tbh when
they played us in Swansea (home ground) it was boring recycling rubbish in their half with no
purpose that i could see other than to deny us possession, Jesus, made me yearn for hoof ball,
mind-numbing to watch, Barcelona with all the blood and magic drained out of it).

Anyway, back to Martinez, pretty football is nothing without results (extremists like Cruyff will argue
differently, but he's generally talking about football being played at a level that is out of this world,
not small club Swansea, don't give the opposition the ball crap) his win rate at Wigan over a 3 year
period is 27% (wins a game roughly every 4). It's a reasonable timeframe (i know there are all these
constraints that he works under...still it was only Wolves, Blackburn, Bolton, QPR & Villa he finished
above this season), does this radically change overnight? What do people really expect across 4
competitions under his stewardship next year (he's never even managed in Europe)??
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 28, 2012, 07:13:44 PM
Martin, I see your point, but don't you see the huge risk factor of appointing a manager who's only 'title' is promotion or avoiding relegation against the odds.

Can't say I do Tes. We've tried the established manager strategy for well over a decade and bar a night in Istanbul (though quite some night) and Dortmund we're not much closer to establishing ourselves as a genuine title contender, quite the opposite. Yes, there are som risks with appointing a young and somewhat inexperienced manager but I would also say that the rewards may be huge. There's less than a handful of manger in the modern era capable of winning titles in different countries. None of them will be available to us at this point so why keep trying an already failed strategy.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 07:21:04 PM
Can't say I do Tes. We've tried the established manager strategy for well over a decade and bar a night in Istanbul (though quite some night) and Dortmund we're not much closer to establishing ourselves as a genuine title contender, quite the opposite. Yes, there are som risks with appointing a young and somewhat inexperienced manager but I would also say that the rewards may be huge. There's less than a handful of manger in the modern era capable of winning titles in different countries. None of them will be available to us at this point so why keep trying an already failed strategy.

Martin, I'm not even thinking of winning the title in the next three years, but challenging, qualifying, consolidating our status within the lower reaches of the top four, before progressing onto and learning to challenge for the title, learning how to handle the pressure and pace our league season accordingly.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 07:25:20 PM
That's what I like to see, a more balanced and objective appraisal of contenders.

There appears to be an argument that Martinez plays nice football (ditto Rodgers, tbh when
they played us in Swansea (home ground) it was boring recycling rubbish in their half with no
purpose that i could see other than to deny us possession, Jesus, made me yearn for hoof ball,
mind-numbing to watch, Barcelona with all the blood and magic drained out of it).

Anyway, back to Martinez, pretty football is nothing without results (extremists like Cruyff will argue
differently, but he's generally talking about football being played at a level that is out of this world,
not small club Swansea, don't give the opposition the ball crap) his win rate at Wigan over a 3 year
period is 27% (wins a game roughly every 4). It's a reasonable timeframe (i know there are all these
constraints that he works under...still it was only Wolves, Blackburn, Bolton, QPR & Villa he finished
above this season), does this radically change overnight? What do people really expect across 4
competitions under his stewardship next year (he's never even managed in Europe)??

Martinez had a four season base to build on, still as we know to our cost,  if the resources aren't there to do it, standing still means going backwards in most cases, and selling your best players (shades of us again) will in most cases leave you struggling (unless your name's Arsene Wenger, it seems).
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 28, 2012, 07:29:12 PM
Words for thought? And quite a few of them.

Booking up our ideas?

by Gareth Roberts 25 May 2012


MUCH was made of John W Henry’s love of Michael Lewis’s book Moneyball. Billy Beane, its star, took the unfashionable Oakland Athletics baseball team to success against the odds using statistical analysis to tear up the traditional scouting methods and identify undervalued players.

His methods transformed one of the poorest teams in baseball into one of the best.

Damien Comolli, the former director of football strategy at Liverpool, worked with Beane, who, in 2002, was approached by Henry to be the general manager of the Boston Red Sox.

Comolli also worked as European scout for Arsenal for seven seasons, uncovering Kolo Toure (£150,000), Emmanuel Eboue (£1m) and Gael Clichy (£250,000) among others for fees well below their future worth.

Henry, unsurprisingly, is a big fan of the Arsenal model and wants a greater return for Liverpool’s wage bill which, according to the Financial Times, was the third highest in the league when Comolli was appointed.

That bill not only failed to deliver enough quality in his eyes, but the squad it paid for offered little resale value.

At Arsenal, even top performers like Robin Van Persie are reportedly earning as little (in relative terms) as £70,000-a-week.

To Henry, too many older players at Anfield were on expensive deals with little prospect of them being sold on for an acceptable price. It’s for this reason that the future of Dirk Kuyt and Maxi Rodriguez remains in doubt – regardless of the set up of the new football management structure.

FSG have always planned with Uefa’s Financial Fair Play rules in mind – an aim to restrict excessive spending that will, in theory at least, stop clubs “doing a Chelsea” or these days “doing a Manchester City”.

Henry is also said to have read Soccernomics,a book by Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski.

Unlike Moneyball it is specific to football and some of the analytical tools and successful use of data detailed there will undoubtedly now be used at Liverpool.

One club that Soccernomics cites as being run in a ‘Moneyball way’ is Lyon.

They won their first Ligue One title in 2002, starting a record-breaking streak of seven successful championship wins. In 2009-10 they reached the semi-finals of the Champions League after three previous quarter-final appearances.

In the season just gone, they won the French Cup, after four years without a trophy, but missed out on the Champions League for the first time since 2000 after finishing fourth in the league.

Lyon has a reputation for developing promising talent, who would not only achieve greatness in France, but also abroad and internationally.

Notable examples include Michael Essien, Florent Malouda, Juninho Pernambucano, Cris, Éric Abidal, Mahamadou Diarra, Patrick Müller, and Karim Benzema.

Owner Jean-Michel Aulas rid the club of its debt and transformed it from a second division team into one of the richest in football but he has been criticised by fans for running Lyon like a business.

Soccernomics says of him: “Aulas’s theme is that over time, the more money a club makes, the more matches it will win, and the more matches it wins, the more money it will make. In the short term you can lose a match, but in the long term there is rationality, even to soccer.”

Under Aulas, Lyon have won the Ligue 1 title seven times and have qualified for the Champions League in 12 consecutive seasons

What Moneyball, Lyon , Soccernomics (and Henry and FSG) have in common is they separate emotion and sentiment from cold hard facts.

So while we as fans may have been up in arms at the decision to sell Xabi Alonso to Real Madrid for £30million, this approach would rubber-stamp such a move.

Alonso was 27, in his prime, so therefore would never command a higher sell-on fee.

Where Rafa Benitez and Liverpool failed on that transfer was in not having an adequate replacement lined up. It is unlikely Alberto Aquilani would have been signed by Henry and co because of his age (26), price (£17m) and his appalling injury record.

Henry has in the past made it clear he does not believe Liverpool has enough quality young players at the club and this summer already there has been talk of an under-23 recruitment policy.

More specifically, if Soccernomics is to be believed, that age range is likely to be 20-22.

Players in that age bracket are considered old enough to be judged but young enough to be affordable. And if a big fee is paid out for players of that age there is time for them to develop and produce a return on the investment.

Younger is considered too much of a gamble as it’s difficult to judge players at that age. Talent is easily frittered away and players that look world beaters at that age can quickly fade into obscurity. Florent Sinama-Pongolle and Anthony Le Tallec anyone?

Whether that totally rules out moves for older players remains to be seen.

Arsene Wenger has always had a policy of offering over-30s no more than a one-year deal but he backtracked on that some time back to sign Sébastien Squillaci on a three-year contract.

Some have suggested we may never see the likes of Gary McAllister, signed aged 35, at Anfield again, but things don’t look quite so cut and dried.

McAllister may have been old, but he was signed on a free, and only on a one-year contract.  It could be that length of contract for older players, not just their age, is the crucial factor (Craig Bellamy, on a free at 32, signed a two-year contract).

Back in 2010 the priorities were clear when Henry said: “The wage bill is high, it is going to be high next year, and we are not a young team. That is disappointing.”

Nevertheless, according to Soccernomics, the key to Lyon’s success has been long-term stability – in terms of players and staff.

So while they have had six managers since 2000 – Jacques Santini, Paul Le Guen, Gerard Houllier, Alain Perrin, Claude Puel and current boss Remi Garde – the president and Bernard Lacombe – who has been technical manager, trainer, manager and now special advisor to the president – have remained.

Lacombe is renowned for his eye for a player and it is clear he will remain for as long as Aulas does.

Lyon believe in the ‘power of crowds’ – the more minds analysing a situation the better the result.

This is why future transfers at Liverpool are likely to involve numerous senior football people coupled with support staff – scouts, data analysts and so on.

At Lyon six or seven people are involved in making a decision on transfers. The manager (coach) is almost seen as a temporary role. When he leaves nothing really changes – it’s evolution, not revolution.

Recently, they have favoured bringing players through from their academy, and have not made major splashes in the transfer market in the last two windows. But Lyon can still boast a squad full of internationals and the biggest wage bill in France. They move into a new stadium in 2014, the Stade des Lumières

The ‘power of crowds’ approach goes against the grain of the traditional set-up in England but, let’s be honest, the traditional set up hasn’t been that great to Liverpool in the last 20-odd years has it?

The club has blown millions on flop signings and has a poor record on recouping transfer fees for outgoing players. It wasn’t supposed to happen on FSG’s watch. It did. And the people responsible – Comolli and Kenny Dalglish – paid the price.

Other traits identified in Soccernomics will ring a few bells with Liverpool fans.

For instance:  “A new manager wastes money; don’t let him”.

When Roy Hodgson arrived at Anfield he immediately put the wheels in motion on two shocking deals – Christian Poulsen, a 30-year-old midfielder widely regarded as being past his best, and Paul Konchesky, a 29-year-old average full-back who had found his level at Fulham.

In both cases the prime reason for their recruitment seemed to be that Hodgson had worked with them before. Out went £10m for the pair and worryingly they were handed long-term deals – Poulsen three years and Konchesky four years.

Fabio Aurelio, a 31-year-old and surely one of the most injury-prone players ever to wear the red shirt, was ludicrously handed a two-year contract.

Henry, watching from afar, must have been cringing.

Meanwhile, out the door went youngsters including Emilano Insua, a 21-year-old twice capped for Argentina,  Lauri Dalla Valle, a 19-year-old Finnish striker described by Liverpool’s official site as ‘one of the most promising youngsters at the club’, and Swedish left winger Alexander Kakaniklic, also 19.

To let players of that ilk leave for next to nothing in exchange for short-term ‘sticking plaster’ signings like Poulsen and Konchesky seemed to make little sense  football or business-wise. It still doesn’t.

By common consensus, the same could be said of Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing and Charlie Adam.

This emphasises how the manager in the traditional model has too much power in player decisions and the opportunity to waste money or sign the wrong player is left too much to chance.

Another Soccernomics rule is: “Stars of World Cups and European Champions are more often than not overvalued.”

Again, something we know all too well. Senegalese duo El Hadji Diouf and Salif Diao were signed for a combined £14m during the 2002 World Cup. Both flopped, with £10m spitting ‘striker’ Diouf earning the dubious honour of becoming the first number nine in Liverpool history to go a whole season without a goal.

To rub salt into the wounds, Diouf was signed at the expense of Nicolas Anelka, who had enjoyed a successful loan spell at Anfield.

The book also suggests certain nationalities are overvalued and clubs need to look beyond the norm to find a bargain.

Too often agent recommendations are taken as read and the club fails to put in the spadework itself.  If a player is from a ‘fashionable’ country (Spain, France, Holland etc) the club will sign him.

That means an increased price a) for the agent’s work b) because other clubs will also have been notified and c) because it is an ‘obvious’ signing.

So long-term Liverpool are more likely to be looking for the new Wilson Palacios than buying a Xavi. Palacios was signed by Wigan for £770,000 from Deportivo Olimpia in the Honduras League (via a loan spell at Birmingham) and sold to Spurs for £12m just a year later.

 “Centre forwards are overvalued; goalkeepers are undervalued.”

Clearly this was a rule recognised by Rafa Benitez who was happy to sign Pepe Reina, 28, to a six-year deal. Reina, who until last season’s dip in form was rated one of the top keepers in the world, was bought for just £6m aged 23.

As for strikers, Robbie Keane – signed for £20m aged 28 – never looked like value for money and so it proved, both for Liverpool and Spurs. It’s the hardest position to sign a player that’s worth his fee. The jury is still out on Carroll, but chances are he’ll never be truly ‘worth’ £35m.

“Gentlemen prefer blondes.”

Soccernomics says one English club noticed its scouts kept recommending blonde players, most likely because they stand out more.

A key aspect to Billy Beane’s approach in Moneyball  is challenging misconceptions about baseball players. One being that a player ‘doesn’t look like a player’.

These preconceived ideas were proven to have affected the judgement of scouts at the highest level and it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that similar judgements are made in football.

Take Peter Crouch for example. How many times have you heard someone say he doesn’t look the part? Plenty said it when he signed for Liverpool – less said it when he finished top goalscorer in the 2006-7 campaign.

Again, it’s hard not to think about Carroll. The ‘right’ Carroll that we saw at the end of the campaign, notably in the FA Cup, looked a pretty formidable prospect, but many will always doubt him according to this theory solely on his stature.

“Sell players at the right time”

As Beane said: “You’ve always got to be upgrading, or you’re f***ed!”

Managers – clubs – should try to recognise when a player is at the peak of his powers and move him on for good money before the deterioration sets in (or before they leave on a free).

The book also demonstrates that none of this is revolutionary thinking either. It might feel new, but Brian Clough and Peter Taylor applied these methods at Forest while our own Bob Paisley was well known for moving on players once they hit 30.

For Paisley then read Wenger now. The Frenchman sold Patrick Vieira to Juventus for £13.5m and Thierry Henry to Barcelona for £16m. Both were aged 29 and neither ever did as well after leaving Arsenal. The same can be said of Emmanuel Petit (who was 29) and Marc Overmars (27) who also joined Barca in a joint deal worth £30m.

It’s no coincidence that Wenger has a master’s degree in economics.

“Buy undervalued players who have personal problems”

The thinking here is bringing in talented players who have troubles and helping them tackle them. The book cites Wenger as an example, helping Paul Merson and Tony Adams with their addictions.

It makes you wonder again if this is a book on Benitez’s shelf. He bought Jermaine Pennant and Craig Bellamy – both talents, both with baggage.

It might seem like a risky approach but get it right and you could have a talent on your hands at the fraction of the cost. Most clubs, according to the book, are all too happy to let players get on with it – even when they have clear problems.

“Help your players settle”

It’s impossible to know how good Liverpool are at this but many clubs will spend millions on a transfer then fail to follow it up by helping their ‘investment’ settle.

Real Madrid spent £22m on Nicolas Anelka then didn’t bother to assign him a locker, introduce him to his team-mates or help him find a house.

In big business when senior executives move between countries they are assigned a ‘relocation consultant’ who sorts out schooling, housing and educates the family he is assigned on cultural rules and so on.

If Liverpool don’t do this already, they will do soon.

All in all, most of the approach appears to be less revolutionary than some would have you believe – much of it is common sense. Perhaps there hasn’t been enough common sense in the traditional model?

It’s a long-term model (unless some cash is thrown around in the short-term for a quick boost and to lift player morale) and one that is likely to steady the club and leave it poised to challenge in coming years rather than instantly rising up the league to push for number 19.

If Liverpool can now look forward to some stability after all that has come before then many fans will welcome that.

Others will undoubtedly pour scorn on any form of change or reinvention and this remains an ongoing challenge for Henry and co – football supporters and players, by in large, are not patient creatures.

Nevertheless, as it says in Soccernomics: “If most clubs are wasting most of their transfer money, then a club that spends wisely is going to outperform.”

It’s been a while since Liverpool did either.


http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/05/booking-up-our-ideas/ (http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/05/booking-up-our-ideas/)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 07:56:28 PM
There's less than a handful of managers in the modern era capable of winning titles in different countries. None of them will be available to us at this point so why keep trying an already failed strategy.

We've tried the established manager strategy for well over a decade (and it's been sh.ite)

the rewards may be huge, in appointing a young and somewhat inexperienced manager

Martin,  either you are on the biggest pis.s-take of all time, in this forum, or else you are completely off your trolley.   ;)

what makes you stop at the Wigan boss, why not go for the Northampton manager, or Hereford manager.....they are struggling in the old division four.  Being so low down the league, they have even far greater potential, than the Wigan boss.

or why not go into the Irish league.....and nick the Portadown or Coleraine boss.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 28, 2012, 08:11:44 PM
There's less than a handful of manger in the modern era capable of winning titles in different countries. None of them will be available to us at this point so why keep trying an already failed strategy.

Benitez? Van Gaal?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 28, 2012, 08:23:31 PM
what makes you stop at the Wigan boss, why not go for the Northampton manager, or Hereford manager.....they are struggling in the old division four.  Being so low down the league, they have even far greater potential, than the Wigan boss.

or why not go into the Irish league.....and nick the Portadown or Coleraine boss.

Dude, you're missing the point...for real 'far greater potential' why pick someone from the football world at all? Maybe one of the Jamaican bobsled team? Or from the lower ends of the Chess/badmington/womens volleyball world to add to the 'far greater potential' milarky!

Hell go the whole hog...dig up a corpse, get a witchdoctor from the Tonton Macoute and watch for the signs of putrefecation for team lineups and possible subs... 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 28, 2012, 08:50:09 PM
Name me then, 5 active managers with a track record with succssive wins in 2 or more different leagues. Also name which of them that are realistically available. GH failed, Rafa failed, Kenny failed. What evidence is there at all that a manager with a proven track record would get us even near the top again?

Fair enough, you can take the stance of Tes and bring in an experienced manager to stabilise it until a younger manager is ready to take us to even higher grounds. I don't believe in that 2-step rocket tho. I think this club needs an identity that is founded in a sound organisation and structure. I am worried about the new structure being set up but I can also see where FSG wants to take us and I'm not as sure as you lot are it won't work. It may not, but in contrast to you I am at least open to the possibility it will work. In any case it didn't work with GH, Rafa, Roy or Kenny.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 09:18:09 PM
Dude, you're missing the point...for real 'far greater potential' why pick someone from the football world at all? Maybe one of the Jamaican bobsled team? Or from the lower ends of the Chess/badmington/womens volleyball world to add to the 'far greater potential' milarky!

Hell go the whole hog...dig up a corpse, get a witchdoctor from the Tonton Macoute and watch for the signs of putrefecation for team lineups and possible subs...

(http://flatfiles.pierogi2000.com/ffimages/2531.jpg)

 :D :D :D

good one, Barticus.

latin american witchdoctors have never been given a far shake of the stick in the premiership.  As you say, they have tremendous potential to come in and set spells on the oppoosition....or focus their black magic on one key opponent......like imagine if Messi was running down the wing and his legs caught fire from internal combustion, at a key moment of the game.

but why not bring in baseball managers from other FSG clubs in america, and start developing them to be future Liverpool managers.  Tremendous potential and think of all the benefits of multi-tasking. 

but even more potential if they also don;t know the language.  Amazing additional potential for them to come here, learn a new language a new culture (imagine getting to taste fish and chips for the first time.....and mince pies....and a curry fried rice.....and a sausage supper. 

I see tremendous scope for the future.  Wonderful potential.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 09:22:56 PM
What evidence is there at all that a manager with a proven track record would get us even near the top again?

you've convinced me.  The West Indies cricket manager will be available.

Ball games are pretty much all the same anyway.  Things can only get better for the poor bloke.  Potential is there.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 28, 2012, 09:25:24 PM
(http://flatfiles.pierogi2000.com/ffimages/2531.jpg)

 :D :D :D

good one, Barticus.

latin american witchdoctors have never been given a far shake of the stick in the premiership.  As you say, they have tremendous potential to come in and set spells on the oppoosition....or focus their black magic on one key opponent......like imagine if Messi was running down the wing and his legs caught fire from internal combustion, at a key moment of the game.

but why not bring in baseball managers from other FSG clubs in america, and start developing them to be future Liverpool managers.  Tremendous potential and think of all the benefits of multi-tasking. 

but even more potential if they also don;t know the language.  Amazing additional potential for them to come here, learn a new language a new culture (imagine getting to taste fish and chips for the first time.....and mince pies....and a curry fried rice.....and a sausage supper. 

I see tremendous scope for the future.  Wonderful potential.

LMAO! Hey at least he'd intimidate the dressing room....maybe that's fergies hidden secret...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 28, 2012, 09:28:48 PM
LMAO! Hey at least he'd intimidate the dressing room....maybe that's fergies hidden secret...

 :D

great shame that we missed out on Saddam's son, Uday.  Sh.ite managerin Iran, but tremendous motivator. 

when threatened with a bit of torture, or being thrown to the lions, tis amazing what it does for one's will to win.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 28, 2012, 09:48:16 PM
Can't say I do Tes. We've tried the established manager strategy for well over a decade and bar a night in Istanbul (though quite some night) and Dortmund we're not much closer to establishing ourselves as a genuine title contender, quite the opposite.
No stadium, rubbish scouting and the decline of the academy output meant generally that
the manager's hands were tied. All clubs (didn't they try this in Formula 1 once) would have
to be on an equal footing before any sort of comparison based solely on managers, ignoring
the context of the state of the club itself, could be deemed valid.

Yes, there are som risks with appointing a young and somewhat inexperienced manager but I would also say that the rewards may be huge.
or a disastrous gamble.

There's less than a handful of manger in the modern era capable of winning titles in different countries. None of them will be available to us at this point so why keep trying an already failed strategy.
Well, you sack a manager, then the next step is to be ready to appoint the best candidate available.

Tbh, i think you're grasping towards something the lads over at the Anfield Wrap recommended i.e.
reading John Barnes's views on the future of the club:

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/barnes-on-lfc-barca-future
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 28, 2012, 09:48:42 PM
:D

great shame that we missed out on Saddam's son, Uday.  Sh.ite managerin Iran, but tremendous motivator. 

when threatened with a bit of torture, or being thrown to the lions, tis amazing what it does for one's will to win.

Agreed....electrodes on the old cojones tends to work wonders...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 28, 2012, 11:34:30 PM
The Wiki article on Mourinho is interesting. This is what he had to say after winning the European Cup in 2004...

As a response to his European and domestic success, Mourinho was linked with several top European clubs, including Liverpool, Real Madrid, and Chelsea. Mourinho publicly stated his preference for the Liverpool job over the Chelsea one:

    Liverpool are a team that interests everyone and Chelsea does not interest me so much because it is a new project with lots of money invested in it. I think it is a project which, if the club fail to win everything, then [Roman] Abramovich could retire and take the money out of the club. It's an uncertain project. It is interesting for a coach to have the money to hire quality players but you never know if a project like this will bring success.


I well remember him having this interest. I wonder if he still has this desire. One thing is for sure. He wouldn't accept a DoF and Henry and Co may need to reconsider that post should Mourinho show an interest. Just goes to show that not every manager is attracted by piles of money and we have even more history than in 2004. Stranger things have happened especially if Martinez and Rogers decline the offer.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 12:22:39 AM
The Wiki article on Mourinho is interesting. This is what he had to say after winning the European Cup in 2004...

As a response to his European and domestic success, Mourinho was linked with several top European clubs, including Liverpool, Real Madrid, and Chelsea. Mourinho publicly stated his preference for the Liverpool job over the Chelsea one:

    Liverpool are a team that interests everyone and Chelsea does not interest me so much because it is a new project with lots of money invested in it. I think it is a project which, if the club fail to win everything, then [Roman] Abramovich could retire and take the money out of the club. It's an uncertain project. It is interesting for a coach to have the money to hire quality players but you never know if a project like this will bring success.


I well remember him having this interest. I wonder if he still has this desire. One thing is for sure. He wouldn't accept a DoF and Henry and Co may need to reconsider that post should Mourinho show an interest. Just goes to show that not every manager is attracted by piles of money and we have even more history than in 2004. Stranger things have happened especially if Martinez and Rogers decline the offer.

Mourinho's just signed a new 3 year (I think it is) contract with Real. It would probably the transfer budget + in compensation to Real.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 12:37:24 AM
Name me then, 5 active managers with a track record with succssive wins in 2 or more different leagues. Also name which of them that are realistically available. GH failed, Rafa failed, Kenny failed. What evidence is there at all that a manager with a proven track record would get us even near the top again?

Fair enough, you can take the stance of Tes and bring in an experienced manager to stabilise it until a younger manager is ready to take us to even higher grounds. I don't believe in that 2-step rocket tho. I think this club needs an identity that is founded in a sound organisation and structure. I am worried about the new structure being set up but I can also see where FSG wants to take us and I'm not as sure as you lot are it won't work. It may not, but in contrast to you I am at least open to the possibility it will work. In any case it didn't work with GH, Rafa, Roy or Kenny.

Martin, how about this young manager? He got his team promoted from the Championship in his first season (better than Rodgers) and has taken over a team half way through the season and landed the FA Cup and CL.
Same age range as Rodgers, Martinez, AVB etc. Will have been schooled in his early career at club (s) that employ the sporting director/coach setup, but has two trophies, one, the biggest in club football to his name in his fledgling career.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 12:44:44 AM
From http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/rodgers-link-to-liverpool-fades-as-sigurdsson-joins-swansea-7794110.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/rodgers-link-to-liverpool-fades-as-sigurdsson-joins-swansea-7794110.html):

"...and it would appear that FSG are not in a position to make firm offers to either Martinez or Rodgers."

What does that actually mean?

Also from that same article (which was the main topic), Swansea have signed Gylfi Sigurdsson from Hoffenheim for £6.8m. Now would the player sign if there was the slightest chance Rodgers was leaving? Surely that issue was discussed between player/agent and manager/chairman, and would the chairman splash out, what is for Swansea a huge sum of money, if the manager had any ideas about leaving?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 29, 2012, 12:58:40 AM
Quote from: Tes link=topic=47047.msg67526#msg67526 date=1338248684
What does that actually mean?
[/quote
That the Director of Football would decide, methinks.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 01:13:49 AM

That the Director of Football would decide, methinks.

Possibly, Ed. So that made it all the more sensible to have lined up Comolli's replacement before sacking him, smooth transition before the season ends and let him draw up the shortlist and be in any interviews, guiding Henry and Werner's decision making.
Any shortlisted candidate knows he's working under a DOF/SD, how the responsibilities will be split etc.
ATM, there is not a definate DOF/SD situation and the potential manager/coach could impress enough to dissuade the owners from appointing a DOF/SD.

Also, wouldn't it be better looking at candidates for the DOF/SD role that have actually done it before, knows the best way of making it work, and again guide Henry and Werner with how it works in practice, not just principal?
Txiki Begiristain has at least worked in the role. Has Van Gaal? Does he really know the finest details and how best to implement every aspect? And if he has, I can't remember if that is the case, what's his track record like in the role?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 01:21:54 AM
Lawrenson actually talking some version of sense, for once, negative as usual though:

Lawrenson: The best Liverpool can hope for next season is sixth

By John Christodoulou  29 May 2012


Former Liverpool defender Mark Lawrenson has warned that the best that the team can hope for next year is to finish sixth, as they are losing ground on their rivals in the transfer market the longer they go without a manager.

The long-time Reds servant has hit out at the club's hierarchy and accused them of taking the side backwards.

The 54-year-old argued that the team risk falling further behind the top five, and that the toll of the Europa League will make their season more difficult as they try to keep up with those ahead of them.

Lawrenson told the Daily Mirror: "The club are at a ­crossroads and I would argue they are even further off finishing in the top four now than they were at the start of last season.

MARTINEZ TO MAKE MIND UP
Wigan boss on the verge of deciding with regards to interest from Liverpool
"The big five of Manchester City, Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham will all strengthen and it’s going to be hard for Liverpool to catch them up.

"If anything, they are going backwards, not forwards.

"I look at next season and I think the best they can hope to finish is sixth - don’t forget they’re also in the Europa League and playing Thursday-Sunday affects the dynamic of the team.

"Looking longer-term, they aren't going to be able to attract the best players if they are not in the Champions League and they are going to have to either decide to build a new stadium or refurbish Anfield – both of which will cost a lot of money.

"There is an opportunity now for Liverpool to go out and get the players they feel they need to improve before the Euros and before their rivals have a chance to snap them up.

"But instead we have a situation where there is no-one at the club to sign players.

"There's no manager and Damien Comolli, who handled transfer negotiations, has still not been replaced."

"I can't believe they are doing it so publicly. That might be the way they do things in America, but this is England"

The pundit also described the lack of a ready replacement for sacked manager Kenny Dalglish as a serious error by the American owners, John W Henry & Tom Werner.

"I know Liverpool’s owners are going about the search for a new manager the American way, but they've got it wrong," he opined.

"I can’t believe they are doing it so publicly. They have basically let everyone know who is on their ­short-list and who they want to interview.

"I didn't see West Brom and Aston Villa do that, and leave it to the bookies to compile a short-list of managers for you.

"That might be the way they do things in America, but this is England and we do things differently.

"They must have had misgivings about Kenny Dalglish for some weeks before they sacked him and yet they didn't line up a replacement. I know people will say that’s not the correct way to do things, but that’s football."
 


http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/05/29/3133433/lawrenson-the-best-liverpool-can-hope-for-next-season-is
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 29, 2012, 02:26:02 AM
Possibly, Ed. So that made it all the more sensible to have lined up Comolli's replacement before sacking him, smooth transition before the season ends and let him draw up the shortlist and be in any interviews, guiding Henry and Werner's decision making.
Any shortlisted candidate knows he's working under a DOF/SD, how the responsibilities will be split etc.
ATM, there is not a definate DOF/SD situation and the potential manager/coach could impress enough to dissuade the owners from appointing a DOF/SD.

Also, wouldn't it be better looking at candidates for the DOF/SD role that have actually done it before, knows the best way of making it work, and again guide Henry and Werner with how it works in practice, not just principal?
Txiki Begiristain has at least worked in the role. Has Van Gaal? Does he really know the finest details and how best to implement every aspect? And if he has, I can't remember if that is the case, what's his track record like in the role?

Geez, it's mad isn't it! & these are the guys with the secret plan!

I mean they employed some dude who writes bland articles with little
real insight for SI do be our communications director (presumably
because he knows what Twitter is?) and have that utter fool Ian Ayre
as MD, is it any wonder that this recruitment process is needlessly turning
into a joke.

I disagree with Lawrenson (who's rant is too focused on next season, imo)
and think that the decisions they are making are now are too important
to rush but ffs proper footballing people must be aghast at their blunderings
with the most basic of tasks and incomprehension of the rhythms of the
footballing calendar in a major tournament year.

Tbh, i don't know if they ever had a proper discussion on the footballing matter
of why the challenge for 4th failed to materialise after the Arsenal game (even
though Kenny had done top 4 form the previous season in the same period with
a side in relegation form). I think Dein arrived on the scene with the whole Arsenal
style new beginning but they knew they couldn't sack Kenny if he won the FA cup.
They just aren't experienced enough footballing-wise yet and will presumably recede
into the background when they appoint a Daniel Levy type to get on with the business
of running a football club.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 05:17:01 PM
Geez, it's mad isn't it! & these are the guys with the secret plan!

I mean they employed some dude who writes bland articles with little
real insight for SI do be our communications director (presumably
because he knows what Twitter is?) and have that utter fool Ian Ayre
as MD, is it any wonder that this recruitment process is needlessly turning
into a joke.

I disagree with Lawrenson (who's rant is too focused on next season, imo)
and think that the decisions they are making are now are too important
to rush but ffs proper footballing people must be aghast at their blunderings
with the most basic of tasks and incomprehension of the rhythms of the
footballing calendar in a major tournament year.

Tbh, i don't know if they ever had a proper discussion on the footballing matter
of why the challenge for 4th failed to materialise after the Arsenal game (even
though Kenny had done top 4 form the previous season in the same period with
a side in relegation form). I think Dein arrived on the scene with the whole Arsenal
style new beginning but they knew they couldn't sack Kenny if he won the FA cup.
They just aren't experienced enough footballing-wise yet and will presumably recede
into the background when they appoint a Daniel Levy type to get on with the business
of running a football club.

People of their standing with the resources they have shouldn't have any problems finding people to advise and guide them, not just in pure technical football matters, but English and European football politics and the way the media works.
They need to forget about anything they know about running a 'sports franchise' and be knowledge empowered with the reality and the true 'way things work regarding a PL football club competing on the English and European stage.
It's disappointing they appear like most Americans in that the only way they seem to be able to understand is they way things are in the States, and are unable to take an openminded standpoint and re-educate themselves to another method and culture.

The board should have been sorted first. Strong CEO, able to handle the entire range of responsibilities, both business, football and political.
Our media, legal and PR departments needed re-organising and again any appointment to a media related position needed to have an indepth knowledge of the British media and their attack dog, sensationalist ways of working.

The fact that they had to sort out the Hodgson issue far too early in their tenure didn't help, but the correct advice would have seen them handle it better. I worry where they're getting their ideas from and who, if anyone, they're taking advice from. Dalglish would have been much better employed in an advisory, figure head position on the board, much like Bobby Charlton's knowledge and experienced is used in addition to his role as an embassador.

They need to learn fast and hard lessons from this recuitment debacle and understand that they couldn't just bring their 'sports' methods with them and simply try and impose and transpose them onto an English and European football club.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 29, 2012, 05:41:46 PM
duncan jenkins ‏@duncanjenkinsFC
the search for the new #lfc manager is over.

Brendan Rodgers is the favourite for the job at every bookmaker now...........
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 29, 2012, 06:16:25 PM
the British media and their attack dog, sensationalist ways of working.
Hehe, nice characterisation Tes!

the search for the new #lfc manager is over.

I think 'search' may be a bit generous :)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 06:30:39 PM
Hehe, nice characterisation Tes!
 
I think 'search' may be a bit generous :)

Our Liverbird on the new badge should be armed with a scattergun.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 06:39:51 PM
duncan jenkins ‏@duncanjenkinsFC
the search for the new #lfc manager is over.

Brendan Rodgers is the favourite for the job at every bookmaker now...........

Why would Huw Jenkins spend £6.8m on Gylfi Sigurdsson, and why would the player sign if either knew or suspected that Rodgers was leaving? Swansea don't have that sort of money to spend on a new player that may not be to the taste of the new manager. Jenkins surely would be positive Rodgers was going to remain as manager before allowing a near doubling of Swansea's record transfer outlay. The previous had been £3.5M paid to Watford for Danny Graham.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 06:42:34 PM
Swansea City meeting with Liverpool target Brendan Rodgers 'just routine' says

4:12PM BST 29 May 2012


Swansea insist a meeting between manager Brendan Rodgers and chairman Huw Jenkins had already been scheduled well before the Northern Irishman became the bookmakers' favourite for the Liverpool job.

The club have denied suggestions in some quarters that Rodgers cut short a trip to New York in order to return home to talk to the chairman after rumours began to surface of the Liverpool's renewed interest.

Rodgers, along with his wife, was a guest of the Football Association of Wales for Sunday's friendly against Mexico at the MetLife Stadium in New Jersey.

Rodgers is understood to be speaking with Jenkins this afternoon but that the meeting is not as a direct result of new speculation about the 39-year-old.

Liverpool's apparent interest will no doubt be discussed at their get-together but as yet Swansea say there has been no approach from the Merseysiders since they were turned down a fortnight ago.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9297901/Swansea-City-meeting-with-Liverpool-target-Brendan-Rodgers-just-routine-says.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9297901/Swansea-City-meeting-with-Liverpool-target-Brendan-Rodgers-just-routine-says.html)

So it must be nailed on to happen.  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 06:47:34 PM
From: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/brendan-rodgers-meeting-not-about-liverpool-job-7800745.html (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/brendan-rodgers-meeting-not-about-liverpool-job-7800745.html)


"It is believed Rodgers initially turned down Liverpool as he did not want to become involved in a lengthy process, with up to 12 names being linked with the post at the time.

But there is growing belief in Wales and his native Northern Ireland that he would now be more receptive to an approach with the list of candidates having been whittled down."



Good to see we've got a highly competitive fighter, with unshakeable confidence in his own ability, as the bookies favourite to be our next manager.  ::)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 06:50:17 PM
Anyone else fancy applying?


http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/virals/120529/liverpools-new-manager-job-ad-revealed-173199 (http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/virals/120529/liverpools-new-manager-job-ad-revealed-173199)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 29, 2012, 06:59:43 PM
Why would Huw Jenkins spend £6.8m on Gylfi Sigurdsson, and why would the player sign if either knew or suspected that Rodgers was leaving? Swansea don't have that sort of money to spend on a new player that may not be to the taste of the new manager. Jenkins surely would be positive Rodgers was going to remain as manager before allowing a near doubling of Swansea's record transfer outlay. The previous had been £3.5M paid to Watford for Danny Graham.

Sigurdsson hasn't signed for Swansea yet...............

The sources I mentioned plus the person who told me Kenny is going are all saying that Brendan Rodgers is our new manager.

He is odds on at every bookmaker. Martinez who was odds on, is now 3/1 4/1 at the bookies. Rodgers is 2/9 1/4 with the bookies.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 08:21:22 PM
So who's odds-on to be the next odds-on favourite. The Eternal Search part III.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 29, 2012, 08:54:46 PM
Anyone else fancy applying?


http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/virals/120529/liverpools-new-manager-job-ad-revealed-173199 (http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/virals/120529/liverpools-new-manager-job-ad-revealed-173199)
:D

i note Dave Whelan has shut up, Martinez must be staying...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 09:33:00 PM
:D

i note Dave Whelan has shut up, Martinez must be staying...

Or his wife's had a word.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 29, 2012, 10:20:42 PM
Or his wife's had a word.


They must have used the £5 million compensation for Rodgers to buy Sigurdsson.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 29, 2012, 10:32:19 PM
after much deliberation, I have decided to withdraw my application.

After many threats from an undisclosed persona (Hi Martin!) I decided to leave the way clear for Brendan to have a clear run at goal.

In true Liverpool style, as introduced by the King of Decency, Sir David Moores, I have released a statement saying how much I appreciate and the respect the club, despite them totally ignoring my application (and telling me to go fek myself); and they in turn, have made a statement, of how much they admire my work and have wished me all the best for the future.  We all lived happily ever after.

Brendan was always my top choice.  His depth of experience, especially at the highest levels, has always impressed me. 

Martin has told me that, if Brendan gets the job, he (i.e. Martin) is going to be exceptionally happy and full of everlasting sunshine and good vibes.   This I have to see.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 11:15:43 PM
Martin has told me that, if Brendan gets the job, he (i.e. Martin) is going to be exceptionally happy and full of everlasting sunshine and good vibes.   This I have to see.

That's me in Rodger's circle of tents then.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 29, 2012, 11:37:38 PM
Swansea fury! Rodgers is set for Anfield as Martinez jets back to UK after talks

By Dominic King and Riath Al-samarrai  29 May 2012


Brendan Rodgers is now Liverpool's No 1 choice to be their new manager and could even be installed by the end of the week.

The Swansea boss has usurped Roberto Martinez as favourite to take over from Kenny Dalglish and his chairman Huw Jenkins has admitted he would not stand in Rodgers' way if he expresses a desire to leave the Liberty Stadium.

Wigan manager Martinez, who has also talked to Aston Villa, looked like he was holding all the aces after a meeting with Liverpool's principal owner John W Henry in Miami last Thursday, but it is understood that further negotiations with the Spaniard broke down when it became apparent that Rodgers was Anfield's preferred choice.

Liverpool have conducted a painstaking search to find Dalglish's successor since sacking the legendary Scot two weeks ago.

And their approach has drawn heavy criticism from Jenkins, who insisted he would have gone about his business differently.

There is also an irony that Rodgers has emerged as the outstanding candidate to take over at Anfield, given that he was the first manager to rule himself out of the running when the initial interview process started with a dozen candidates 12 days ago.

Sportsmail understands his stance was partially dictated by a reluctance to undermine his position at Swansea, but it has always been the intention of Fenway Sports Group, Liverpool's American owners, to speak with the Northern Irishman this week.

Rodgers, 39, and Jenkins had a two-hour meeting at the Liberty Stadium when Swansea insist Liverpool's interest was not discussed, but that seems unlikely considering Jenkins' strong feelings on the two-week saga and his desperation to keep one of the hottest young managerial properties in the game.

Jenkins said: 'If I was in charge of Liverpool I would be going about my business differently. 'What they are doing is not how I would do it. I don't want to say what I would do differently but I have not been too happy.

'This is the kind of silly thing that happens at this point of the season. There has not been another approach since the first one and we've had to answer a lot of questions based on speculation.'

Liverpool now want to bring the process to a swift conclusion. Henry and chairman Tom Werner have arrived on Merseyside, with Werner set to attend a Premier League meeting on Thursday.

Provided talks go smoothly, Liverpool may make an official announcement before the weekend.

FSG are determined to implement a new coaching structure at Anfield and former Bayern Munich and Ajax coach Louis van Gaal has also been lined up as sporting director.

Martinez is left facing a 24-hour wait to discover whether his talks with Liverpool have cost him the chance to succeed Alex McLeish at Villa.

Club owner Randy Lerner was informed by the Spaniard's representatives yesterday that the Latics boss would now be prepared to press ahead with his candidacy after talks between the two parties at Villa Park last week.

But Martinez has been informed that Villa have looked elsewhere since the talks, and it is believed Norwich's Paul Lambert is now also under consideration.

Villa want the matter resolved by the weekend and will open talks with the club of their choice in the next two days.

Martinez is in danger of paying the price for a failure to declare his outright determination to land the post.

He was Lerner's first-choice 12 months ago - before the calamitous decision was taken to appoint McLeish - and has only enhanced his reputation since.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2151835/Brendan-Rodgers-set-Liverpool.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2151835/Brendan-Rodgers-set-Liverpool.html)

So the Mail give us a summary of the last 7 days events and calls it with their own conclusion thrown in as 'seasoning'. They use Dominic King's name as he used to work for the Echo. Van Gaal it is then.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 29, 2012, 11:54:25 PM
(http://www.talksport.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecache/ts_magazine_big_picture/LFCmanagerad.jpg)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 30, 2012, 12:05:20 AM
Chris Bascombe of the Telegraph is reporting tonight that Martinez and Rodgers have both refused to work with van Gaal and he's now unlikely to join.

It looks like Rodgers will become manager by the end of the week but the real mystery is who, if anyone, will be the Technical Director / Chief Tea Boy or whatever the title of that post is this week?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9298832/Liverpool-close-in-on-Swansea-Citys-Brendan-Rodgers-with-second-formal-approach-expected-before-the-weekend.html
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 30, 2012, 12:06:59 AM
So it looks like Rodgers is favourite to replace Kenny. Id prefer him to Martinez but I do think hes still a huge gamble for FSG.

What I have been wondering is how has Rodgers become favourite when he hasnt even been interviewed. Has Martinez talked himself out of the role. How have FSG all of a sudden decided Rodgers is their man? What happens if he says no. It will be back to square one. The process has been a shambles.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9298832/Liverpool-close-in-on-Swansea-Citys-Brendan-Rodgers-with-second-formal-approach-expected-before-the-weekend.html

Liverpool close in on Swansea City's Brendan Rodgers with second formal approach expected before the weekend

By Chris Bascombe

10:30PM BST 29 May 2012

Comments7 Comments

A second formal approach for the Northern Irishman is anticipated before the weekend.

The momentum has swung rapidly towards Rodgers in recent days as Fenway Sports Group continues its exhaustive recruitment process.

Rodgers held talks with his Liberty Stadium chairman Huw Jenkins on Tuesday, fully aware the interest from Anfield in his services has intensified.

Although Swansea City played down suggestions their manager’s future was on the agenda, it is clear a decision will have to be taken on whether to allow Rodgers to meet FSG.

Swansea recognise Liverpool have never given up hope of discussing their managerial vacancy with Rodgers, and although he had initially rejected the interest from Merseyside, the circumstances have significantly changed since the first approach.

Rodgers maintained from the outset it was only the early stages of the recruitment process he was withdrawing from, leaving the door ajar for negotiations at a later date if he felt he was a genuine contender.

Now he is perceived as the frontrunner rather than one of a dozen names on a long list.

Another significant factor is Liverpool’s cooling in interest in Dutchman Louis van Gaal, whose chances of an Anfield role have receded significantly as FSG have continued their structural review. It was swiftly established Roberto Martínez and Rodgers would refuse to work under Van Gaal if he was sporting director.

The Dutchman’s dictatorial reputation and determination to impose his own imprint on how the club is run would make it impossible for a young manager to assert his influence.

Although Wigan’s Martínez has been the most high-profile interviewee so far, Liverpool have never swayed from their determination to meet numerous candidates.

Martínez was never offered the job, despite his chairman Dave Whelan’s willingness to push his claims. Whelan’s suggestion Martínez would meet FSG again on Tuesday proved incorrect as there were no face-to-face talks.

A delegation from FSG did arrive in Liverpool, partially to establish negotiations with Swansea, but also because chairman Tom Werner and principal owner John Henry have an appointment at the Premier League’s annual meeting on Thursday.

Liverpool hope to be in a position to confirm their new manager at the end of the week, but while there has been a sense of hysteria from those demanding a swift appointment since Dalglish’s dismissal, FSG are following the procedure they set out on day one.

There is a certain sense of bemusement within Anfield at the criticism of the American owners for the manner they have gone about replacing Dalglish. The previous owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr, were lambasted when they once coveted a rival manager, Jurgen Klinsmann, while Rafael Benítez was still in a job.

Liverpool’s hierarchy feel they have handled the situation in a dignified manner, and yet they have been criticised for failing to have a manager sounded out prior to dismissing Dalglish, conduct which would have caused uproar among the Kop icon’s fans. Liverpool’s owners will make no apology for taking time to recruit the right man and it now looks increasingly likely that will be Rodgers
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 30, 2012, 12:07:32 AM
Chris Bascombe of the Telegraph is reporting tonight that Martinez and Rodgers have both refused to work with van Gaal and he's now unlikely to join.

It looks like Rodgers will become manager by the end of the week but the real mystery is who, if anyone, will be the Technical Director / Chief Tea Boy or whatever the title of that post is this week?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9298832/Liverpool-close-in-on-Swansea-Citys-Brendan-Rodgers-with-second-formal-approach-expected-before-the-weekend.html

Beat me to it Tes.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 30, 2012, 01:16:20 AM
Good discussion about BRs potential move to us:

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/kickoff/120529/burt-id-put-my-money-rodgers-going-liverpool-173233

& a previous interview during his days in the Championship:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/brendan-rodgers-the-day-jose-left-chelsea-it-felt-like-someone-had-died-2271087.html

Swotting up on this guy  :P
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 30, 2012, 01:21:41 AM
Martin has told me that, if Brendan gets the job, he (i.e. Martin) is going to be exceptionally happy and full of everlasting sunshine and good vibes.   This I have to see.

In fact, it'll beam out of my bottom in abundance so that all you negative people can lighten up!!

And yes, I'm happy with our new manager, who ever he is, as long as he's new and not simply re-signed. But I'll admit Rodgers was allways my no. 1 favorite among the more realistic candidates. Hopefully I got it right - again. :P
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 30, 2012, 01:22:55 AM
(http://www.talksport.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecache/ts_magazine_big_picture/LFCmanagerad.jpg)

This is exactly what happens if you give the fans too much power. They won't sit still until they get what they want. The horror, the horror!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 30, 2012, 09:16:00 AM
This is exactly what happens if you give the fans too much power. They won't sit still until they get what they want. The horror, the horror!

Ah im sure it was only done in a light hearted way. If anything it seemed to sum up some of the dissaray surrounding the process.

Who would have thought Martin you would be getting your wish. I envisaged Fsg going for a more high profile candidate. Rodgers has a lot of potential but i do still see it as a gamble. That said when rodgers is confirmed he needs plenty of time and patience. We cant have rafa, kenny, van gaal or whoever looming large over his shoulder. Hopefully rodgers will be successful and at the club for a long time, we cant keep changing.

And one thing we cant accuse the owners of is listening to the fans. They have been very much their own men whether we like the process or not.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 30, 2012, 09:39:31 AM
Ah im sure it was only done in a light hearted way. If anything it seemed to sum up some of the dissaray surrounding the process.

Who would have thought Martin you would be getting your wish. I envisaged Fsg going for a more high profile candidate. Rodgers has a lot of potential but i do still see it as a gamble. That said when rodgers is confirmed he needs plenty of time and patience. We cant have rafa, kenny, van gaal or whoever looming large over his shoulder. Hopefully rodgers will be successful and at the club for a long time, we cant keep changing.

And one thing we cant accuse the owners of is listening to the fans. They have been very much their own men whether we like the process or not.

I don't know if I agree Juan, the permanent appointment of Kenny I feel was made solely to appease the fans after the Roy affair.

As for Rodgers, it's not a done deal yet tho and as we both know a lot can change in footy very quickly. I agree it's a gamble but my stance has been and will be it's a gamble worth taking as this high-profile manager strategy has only seen us decline over time altho a number of very enjoyable cup win's been made in the process. But those doesn't balance the fact we're rapidly establishing ourselves as a mid-table team.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 30, 2012, 10:40:21 AM
I don't know if I agree Juan, the permanent appointment of Kenny I feel was made solely to appease the fans after the Roy affair.

As for Rodgers, it's not a done deal yet tho and as we both know a lot can change in footy very quickly. I agree it's a gamble but my stance has been and will be it's a gamble worth taking as this high-profile manager strategy has only seen us decline over time altho a number of very enjoyable cup win's been made in the process. But those doesn't balance the fact we're rapidly establishing ourselves as a mid-table team.

Agreed in relation to Kenny. The owners did bow to fan pressure on that occasion but I think that was more to do with just being new to football. Now the owners seem to have a dogged stubbornness about them. Whether that is a good thing or not time will only tell.

And as you say alot can happen in football so until Rodgers signs on the dotted line nothing is for sure. If Rodgers were to turn Liverpool down Im sure Martinez wouldnt take the position being second choice. That would leave us in a very embarrassing and precarious position.

Its sort of a sad situation to see the club in. Possibly needing to convince a young and up and coming manager that the LFC managers position is a job worth taking over Swansea. And to be honest although we seem intent on giving Rodgers the position Im not overly confident he'd take it. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 30, 2012, 10:54:45 AM
Agreed in relation to Kenny. The owners did bow to fan pressure on that occasion but I think that was more to do with just being new to football. Now the owners seem to have a dogged stubbornness about them. Whether that is a good thing or not time will only tell.

And as you say alot can happen in football so until Rodgers signs on the dotted line nothing is for sure. If Rodgers were to turn Liverpool down Im sure Martinez wouldnt take the position being second choice. That would leave us in a very embarrassing and precarious position.

Its sort of a sad situation to see the club in. Possibly needing to convince a young and up and coming manager that the LFC managers position is a job worth taking over Swansea. And to be honest although we seem intent on giving Rodgers the position Im not overly confident he'd take it.

I am. In fact I'm impressed by how he played his hand. It's just that he's under tremendous pressure to make the right move at the right time.

As for the owners dogged stubborness I don't know mate. After all it was always their call and rightly so for the sake of this club. It's part and parcel of a capitalist society those who own have the right to make poor decisions. Anyroad, prior to the cries for Kenny I can't remember LFC-fans ever considering the appointment of the manager being their business. I think a discussion is OK but to totally write the owners off because they don't do as the fans please makes me feel ashamed to call myself an LFC-supporter. I'm positive they'll get this right.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 30, 2012, 12:25:06 PM
I am. In fact I'm impressed by how he played his hand. It's just that he's under tremendous pressure to make the right move at the right time.

As for the owners dogged stubborness I don't know mate. After all it was always their call and rightly so for the sake of this club. It's part and parcel of a capitalist society those who own have the right to make poor decisions. Anyroad, prior to the cries for Kenny I can't remember LFC-fans ever considering the appointment of the manager being their business. I think a discussion is OK but to totally write the owners off because they don't do as the fans please makes me feel ashamed to call myself an LFC-supporter. I'm positive they'll get this right.

I blame the internet for the power trip some of our fans seem to like getting themselves aboard. Like you, Juan, I find it more cringeworthy than any of the press conferences Roy Hodgson did whilst he was our manager.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 30, 2012, 12:30:48 PM
I think it'll be either Rodgers or Van Gaal. I could think of much worse candidates.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 30, 2012, 12:45:35 PM
Chris Bascombe of the Telegraph is reporting tonight that Martinez and Rodgers have both refused to work with van Gaal and he's now unlikely to join.

It looks like Rodgers will become manager by the end of the week but the real mystery is who, if anyone, will be the Technical Director / Chief Tea Boy or whatever the title of that post is this week?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9298832/Liverpool-close-in-on-Swansea-Citys-Brendan-Rodgers-with-second-formal-approach-expected-before-the-weekend.html

The DOF/SD role is always going to be hard to sell to traditional managers in this country, especially if the DOF/SD has had a successful managerial career himself previously.
This is why someone like Fernando Heirro or Aitor 'Txiki' Begiristain Mújica is a more sensual route to down, as they're not going to have an eye on the managerial seat themselves and they have experience in that role. It makes them the specialist in that role as opposed to a manager turned DOF/SD.

We could always have this potential problem, if like in other countries, the manager/coach is the one to be fired whilst the DOF/SD remains in situ, we'll potentially limit the candidates available due to DOF/SD existing at the club.

They might end up re-thinking the role and get the manager to appoint a specialised assistant who can deal with, for example, working with the scouts at all levels deciding on required targets, being ultimately responsible for all levels at the club from reserves down to the most junior teams in terms of appointments of coaching, scouting and medical staff, working with the academy director and technical director instigating the chosen methods of play and training regime, be responsible for all aspects of the scouting networks at all levels and age groups. That is the way a DOF/SD would work without it affecting the manager's power/responsibility.
The manager still being ultimately responsible for how and what work is indentified as needing doing in any aspect of the club and to maintain stability and continuity throughout all the playing levels, only a manager/coach  who subscribes to a certain way of playing is ever installed. The manager's power and accountability isn't diluted but by delegating many aspects it frees him up to work with just the first team, and give him more time to look at youngsters with an eye to promotion and watching a player at least once who has been identified as a target for a required position, as per the manager's requested instructions. Also he needs time to monitor and consider the success/failure of all aspects of the football side but without having to action things for himself.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 30, 2012, 12:47:28 PM
Beat me to it Tes.

Misspent middle age.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 30, 2012, 01:07:10 PM
From: http://www.theweek.co.uk/football/liverpool-manager/47178/rodgers-favourite-liverpool-job-van-gaals-chances-fade (http://www.theweek.co.uk/football/liverpool-manager/47178/rodgers-favourite-liverpool-job-van-gaals-chances-fade)

"It was swiftly established Roberto Martinez and Rodgers would refuse to work under Van Gaal if he was sporting director. The Dutchman's dictatorial reputation and determination to impose his own imprint on how the club is run would make it impossible for a young manager to assert his influence."


That's why the role has to be clearly defined with who is responsible for what being clearly spelt out for both manager/coach and DOF/SD.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 30, 2012, 03:07:21 PM
the DoF role, is just yet another mistake that the arrogant yankee owners feked up with.   Now they are struggling to get any decent manager to come in and work under such a nutty structure.    Will they abandon it, or try and work around the fek up (with band-aids and sticky-back plastic).

On a different note, I was thinking over this morning something that Dave Whelan said a few weeks ago.

Dave Whelan, the Wigan chairman, said after his club's visit to Anfield this season, that Liverpool FC appeared to have lost its heart and the Anfield boardroom seemed a soulless place.

He would know all about soulless, his club's stadium was the JJB Stadium (for Martin and younger folks, JJB was a nationwide chain of sports shops)......and then 3 years ago, he renamed it the DW Stadium (as in DAVE WHELAN STADIUM).   And the stadium's sponsor is  www.DWSportsFitness.com (http://www.anfieldroad.com/forum/www.DWSportsFitness.com)

Aye, Dave Whelan knows as much about soul, culture and heritage, as Donald Trump does.    ;)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 30, 2012, 03:14:31 PM
the DoF role, is just yet another mistake that the arrogant yankee owners feked up with.   Now they are struggling to get any decent manager to come in and work under such a nutty structure.    Will they abandon it, or try and work around the fek up (with band-aids and sticky-back plastic).

On a different note, I was thinking over this morning something that Dave Whelan said a few weeks ago.

Dave Whelan, the Wigan chairman, said after his club's visit to Anfield this season, that Liverpool FC appeared to have lost its heart and the Anfield boardroom seemed a soulless place.

He would know all about soulless, his club's stadium was the JJB Stadium (for Martin and younger folks, JJB was a nationwide chain of sports shops owned by, guess who, Davey Boy Whelan)......and then 3 years ago, he renamed it the DW Stadium (as in DAVE WHELAN STADIUM).   And the stadium's sponsor is  www.DWSportsFitness.com (http://www.anfieldroad.com/forum/www.DWSportsFitness.com)

Aye, Dave Whelan knows as much about soul, culture and heritage, as Donald Trump does.    ;)

Th ego has landed.  ;D

All the DOF/satistics analysis etc operations can be performed by individuals under the manager. They essentially feed in information to help the manager carry out his role. Between them, a manager and tuned in CEO would know the 'reasonable' valuation to put on a player, when both selling and buying, and hence identify both the underpriced and overpriced, with the CEO having finally say on any maximum offer amount. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 30, 2012, 03:24:19 PM
All the DOF/satistics analysis etc operations can be performed by individuals under the manager. They essentially feed in information to help the manager carry out his role. Between them, a manager and tuned in CEO would know the 'reasonable' valuation to put on a player, when both selling and buying, and hence identify both the underpriced and overpriced, with the CEO having finally say on any maximum offer amount.

absolutely.

there is absolutely no need for a DoF.   All the other stuff can be done and fed to the manager (coaching drills, stat analysis, etc)  and when needs be, the CEO can be involved (e.g. when wages, transfer fees need discussion).

in creating a DoF role, our owners have backed themselves into a corner.......they have created a problem, not a solution.

DoF is a mainland europe thing, but our owners run an organisation in Britain.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Gurdeep on May 30, 2012, 04:37:56 PM
Congratulations Martin you've got your man (3yr deal signed)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 30, 2012, 04:42:25 PM
Congratulations Martin you've got your man (3yr deal signed)

We have to get behind Rodgers no matter what now.

Thats said he'd better have the premier league in the bag by Christmas Martin or else............ ;D ;D ;D

Im glad they chose Rodgers over Martinez. I hope its not true Martinez turned us down.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Gurdeep on May 30, 2012, 04:53:39 PM
Im glad they chose Rodgers over Martinez.

Agree Juan.

I sincerely hope that he looks to promote some members of the youth team in to the 1st team next season.  Players like Sterling, he's a damn sight faster than Downing and certainly has more potential.  We need to integrate these kids into the team sooner rather than later!
 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on May 30, 2012, 04:58:42 PM
Agree Juan.

I sincerely hope that he looks to promote some members of the youth team in to the 1st team next season.  Players like Sterling, he's a damn sight faster than Downing and certainly has more potential.  We need to integrate these kids into the team sooner rather than later!

Yes definitely.

For too long we've seen potentially talented youngsters not getting any kind of chance with the first team. And its not like the players who have been making the first team have been performing. Id also have Aquillani, Cole and Pacheco back. Why be still paying half their wages to play somewhere else. And none of the 3 have ever really been given an extended opportunity to see if they can make the grade here. So either recall them or sell them.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Gurdeep on May 30, 2012, 05:00:05 PM
Tony Barrett
Last updated at 2:10PM, May 30 2012

Brendan Rodgers is set to be announced as the new manager of Liverpool, The Times understands.

The Swansea City manager initially declined an approach from the Merseyside club to discuss replacing Kenny Dalglish, but he appears to have completed a U-turn with reports that he has agreed a three-year deal. It is understood that an agreement over compensation is likely to be a formality, with a figure of between £4 million and £5 million expected to be agreed, while Rodgers will meet the Liverpool hierarchy this afternoon.

Liverpool had first approached Roberto Martinez, the Wigan Athletic manager, for the vacancy and the Spaniard travelled to Miami last week to meet Fenway Sports Group, the club’s American owner. Liverpool insisted that they would not be rushed to make an appointment and were linked with Andre Villas-Boas as well as Rodgers.

Rodgers, who signed a 3½-year contract only in February, had distanced himself from the vacancy ten days ago, when the club indicated that he was one of many potential candidates they had identified. His commitment to Swansea is genuine, as was his belief that his long-term development might be better served by staying at the Liberty Stadium for another season.

But, having learnt that he is a genuine contender to replace Dalglish, who was sacked, he became keen to discover what might be on offer at Anfield.

He has been recommended by advisers, but, like Martínez, he would be eager to ascertain the precise role under discussion in what would be a new structure at Anfield. Liverpool want to bring in a director of football and have been linked with Louis van Gaal, the former Ajax and Barcelona coach.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 30, 2012, 05:06:34 PM
Juan, I think Martinez was standing firm in not working under a DOF, and then when interviewed, Rodgers made the same thing clear. Martinez had probably already said no with one eye on it being a more straightforward option to go to Villa.


...........and then there was one.

This is now FSG's baby. They start here. No manager from a previous ownership, no being forced into replacing said manager and no being swayed by results that would have probably occurred if the replacement was 'anyone but Hodgson'.

If they've changed or had their minds changed for them, weren't there other options to look at, options that previously weren't open to them if a DOF was a non-negotiable sticking point?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 30, 2012, 05:25:03 PM
Telegraph pole 56% to 44% in favour of Rodgers.

We know the identity of one of the 'for' voters:

"Former England striker Gary Lineker, tweeted:  "I feel this could be a very shrewd appointment. Totally gets the way the game's evolving."

From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18235961 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18235961)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on May 30, 2012, 05:31:26 PM

James Pearce ‏@Pearcesport
BBC's @BenSmithBBC now confirming that Brendan Rodgers is new Liverpool manager. He's signed three year contract

Simon Clancy ‏@SiClancy
Brendan Rodgers is the new Liverpool manager. £4-5 million compensation on a 3 year deal. From @BenSmithBBC
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 30, 2012, 05:44:21 PM
If they've changed or had their minds changed for them, weren't there other options to look at, options that previously weren't open to them if a DOF was a non-negotiable sticking point?

RAFA

(sub-titles for the ard of understandin - lest anyone missed your subtle reference)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on May 30, 2012, 06:30:10 PM
If, under Brendan, we go on to win the League and Champions league I will be the first in line to get my large portion of humble pie...
If we do so then i will personally campaign for 'martinmarx freedom of the city' as well..
That is a solemn promise..

Gah!

Well i'm pleased in one way as i didn't think Martinez was upto it...don't know about Rodgers either...but hey what do i know? Never in a month of sundays did i think he'd get the job in the first place...
One of the nice things about life is i am constantly astounded by it...
Should be interesting at the very least...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 30, 2012, 07:09:01 PM
The DOF/SD role is always going to be hard to sell to traditional managers in this country, especially if the DOF/SD has had a successful managerial career himself previously.

Interesting post there Tes. There is still lack of clarity about whether the owners will go with a DoF. Maybe Rogers and Martinez persuaded them to drop the idea. Maybe Dein did too. All should become clear in the days to come.

You make a reasonable case for a DoF but I'm still reluctant for the club to go down that route. In all probability any DoF would be older and with more experience and Rodgers could feel his authority is undermined with such a personality around. But if he's happy with one then why not providing he has the last say on any signings. Val Gaal now appear unlikely to join. I think it's very important that the owners give Rodgers 100% support and that means no DoF, certainly not in his first year or so.

As he gains experience he should be in a better position to decide if he wants one. I think it should always be with a manager's agreement that a DoF comes in. But Van Gaal wanted a circus to follow him and I think that would have been a disaster.

So I'm cautiously optimistic for the coming season but before that there is the small point of a transfer kitty and strengthening the team. I wonder who he might target.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 30, 2012, 07:13:11 PM
for me, based on the limited time he has been in the premiership, Rodgers was always the best of the youngsters coming through.
 
I am glad he got the nod, and not Martinez.
 
But it is a helluva gamble.  He's been managing for three years, only one of those being in the premiership.
 
I have never (during my lifetime) witnessed this type of gamble before at Anfield.  And very rarely at a top club in england.  Chelsea did try it last season, with the ill-fated appointment of the youngster, AVB. 
 
Trying to think back across my near 50 years and I cannot think of any example, of someone with this little experience or age, being a success at the top level of the game.    Massive gamble.  The Gods will not be patient or friendly, should things not go well.   Rafa's long shadow will hang over any poor run of form, under Rodgers.
 
I wish him the best.  His pass and move game will be very welcome amongst our fanbase.  Whether he can attract the top european players he needs for such a technical game, I have no idea.  I do know that there will be some stalwarts in our present team, who will be out of their depth.   Then again, the likes of Carragher and Gerrard are near the end of their careers anyway. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 30, 2012, 07:16:59 PM
But Van Gaal wanted a circus to follow him and I think that would have been a disaster.

When I read it, it just felt like Van Gaal was already getting himself prepared for when he took over from the manager. I've no problem if he'd suggested his 'assistant' as an addition but it felt like a fait accompli.

There's interesting parallels between Rodgers and Mourinho, Klopp and Rafa, in that all had no 'big club' experience and one promotion on Rafa's and Klopp's record, prior to them being appointed to Porto, Dortmund and Valencia respectively.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 30, 2012, 07:27:06 PM
for me, based on the limited time he has been in the premiership, Rodgers was always the best of the youngsters coming through.
 
I am glad he got the nod, and not Martinez.
 
But it is a helluva gamble.  He's been managing for three years, only one of those being in the premiership.
 
I have never (during my lifetime) witnessed this type of gamble before at Anfield.  And very rarely at a top club in england.  Chelsea did try it last season, with the ill-fated appointment of the youngster, AVB. 
 
Trying to think back across my near 50 years and I cannot think of any example, of someone with this little experience or age, being a success at the top level of the game.    Massive gamble.  The Gods will not be patient or friendly, should things not go well.   Rafa's long shadow will hang over any poor run of form, under Rodgers.
 
I wish him the best.  His pass and move game will be very welcome amongst our fanbase.  Whether he can attract the top european players he needs for such a technical game, I have no idea.  I do know that there will be some stalwarts in our present team, who will be out of their depth.   Then again, the likes of Carragher and Gerrard are near the end of their careers anyway.

Sums it up neatly, Dude. Paisley had no managerial experience but as you say about age, age was on Sir Bob's side, and with it, huge knowledge to call on.

I don't think we're in the position, irrespective of manager, to attract big names, but as I keep saying, without an oligarch or a Sheik we need to find the next "insert appropriate name" and bring them on ourselves.
It's going to be all about the sum of the parts.

Interestingly, Lambert got Norwich to finish on the same number of points as Swansea and had Norwich promoted automatically. Maybe he was able to adjust his tactics more effectively overall to two different leagues, yet he was never anywhere near the serious runners.
Maybe FSG had had enough of dour Scotsmen.

Can anyone recall us having an Irish manager before? Still the long Celtic tradition is being upheld.
 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 30, 2012, 07:30:16 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18272662 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18272662)
New Liverpool boss Rodgers' philosophy of possession  (see link above)


I had exactly the same approach.  I always believed in keeping possession, and totally demotivating the opposing team.  They had to work so hard to even get possession, nevermind try to create a goal opportunity.  The opposition would end up fouling us, or taking shots from long range, which were a waste of time.

Possession is key.  Glad to see Rodgers agrees.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on May 30, 2012, 07:32:34 PM
When I read it, it just felt like Van Gaal was already getting himself prepared for when he took over from the manager. I've no problem if he'd suggested his 'assistant' as an addition but it felt like a fait accompli.
And that's probably what JH and TW felt too. We should credit them for that.

Quote
There's interesting parallels between Rodgers and Mourinho, Klopp and Rafa, in that all had no 'big club' experience and one promotion on Rafa's and Klopp's record, prior to them being appointed to Porto, Dortmund and Valencia respectively.

I remember Gerrard (in his autobiography) asking Carragher who this Benitez chap was. Neither had heard of him. But that was 2004 when not everyone had t'internet. Now everyone's a bloody expert and has an opinion and Googles every name that's mentioned.

I was looking at Wenger's record before he came to Arsenal. Managed Nancy-Lorraine at the age of 35. In his 3 seasons there the highest they finished was 11th and in his last they got relegated!

His next club was Monaco and they won the league in his first year but nothing substantial after that bar a run in the CL to semi-final. He left for Grampus 8 where he enjoyed an 18 month stint.

But it was still a big risk for Arsenal to employ him. He got better with age which is what I hope will happen with Rodgers. I just hope the players will give him a chance and not look to get out because he's not a big name.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 30, 2012, 07:39:58 PM
I just hope the players will give him a chance and not look to get out because he's not a big name.

If they do they're welcome to leave. They hardly shone last season. Some of them should be looking to regain their lustre instead of heading for the exits.
We'll see who's got the metal for the task.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 30, 2012, 09:56:05 PM
Congratulations Martin you've got your man (3yr deal signed)

Cheers, other than that I will give no other comment than what's said in my signature. :P

Well made up with this!!! :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on May 30, 2012, 10:28:39 PM
Dunno, gut reaction is that the job has come too early in his career (ditto Martinez).
The Liverpool project is massive and the top end of the Premier league formidable.
It's where the experienced big boys rule. David Moyes (bless him) must be astonished
(loved the way he rubbished Everton finishing 7th this season)

"I can't see how you can celebrate finishing 7th, I've always wanted to celebrate
finishing 1st"


There's n'awful lot of s.h.i.t.e comparisons been made to this, that and the other,
Benitez at Valencia, Mourinho at Porto. We never seem to hear about the exciting
young coaches who took over sleeping giants and failed miserably. Heck, I was even
reading somewhere that his experience at Chelsea qualified him to deal with top
players. He climbed Kilimanjaro, he can climb up the league table etc.

Obviously I'll support the manager, just aint getting my expectations up...

Looking forward to his first press conference though.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 31, 2012, 12:46:54 AM
There's n'awful lot of s.h.i.t.e comparisons been made to this, that and the other,
Benitez at Valencia, Mourinho at Porto.

Prior to, Ed, prior to. And you forgot Klopp at Mainz before Dortmund.

Comparisons will always be made in similar circumstances. It doesn't mean we expect the same outcome or that it's some sort of FSG justification excercise.

As always all we've got is hope. Bigger names than Rodgers have failed. Did anybody see Di Matteo winning the CL this season?

You've just gotta love footie.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 31, 2012, 12:49:24 AM
Cheers, other than that I will give no other comment than what's said in my signature. :P

Well made up with this!!! :D :D :D :D

Cheer up, Martin.  :D

You do realise you will be the forum sacrificial offering if things go mammories up this season.  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on May 31, 2012, 01:54:04 AM
From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9301301/Brendan-Rodgers-playing-philosophy-could-be-a-success-if-he-transfers-it-from-the-Liberty-Stadium-to-Liverpool.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9301301/Brendan-Rodgers-playing-philosophy-could-be-a-success-if-he-transfers-it-from-the-Liberty-Stadium-to-Liverpool.html)

When a player receives the ball he should always have at least two options for an ‘out’ pass. He gives the players confidence to make those passes by taking the blame on himself when it does not come off.

When the ball is lost, his players seek to win it back quickly by pressing high up the field. This means reacting as a unit and nobody shirking their duty. Winning the ball back quickly creates openings in a disorganised opponent, especially when it happens near their goal. The team as a whole need to know when to press like this, and hold a high line, and when to drop deep and absorb the opponents’ efforts to break them down.


Sort of commonsense in a commonsense sort of way.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 31, 2012, 08:45:36 AM
Liverpool, after two disastrous years of transfers by Hodgson and Dalglish, are in major need of rebuilding.

And what greatly concerns me, is that I can find no record of Brendan Rodger's rebuilding efforts at Swansea.  Did Rodgers build this Swansea team himself, or did he inherit it from the previous manager (Martinez)?  Anyone know?

It would be nightmarish to discover that we need a house built, but have employed a cowboy who has never as much as laid a row of blocks in his life.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on May 31, 2012, 08:57:54 AM
Cheer up, Martin.  :D

You do realise you will be the forum sacrificial offering if things go mammories up this season.  ;D

Hahaha!!  ;D But I do.

On a more serious note I am very very very happy about this appointment. A couple of months back I never though it would happen. But once Kenny got the sack I had a feeling it may happen. As I've said above I'm very impressed by how Brendan played his hand throughout this process. NOW, the rebuildning will begin and I am utterly convinced and positive we got the right man for it. I expect results won't come instantly and I can only pray that those who still dream of a return of Rafa, and in some instances Kenny, will focus on what's at hand.

My wish and expectations ahead of the new season lies in the hope we'll see a new structure, a new game emerge. Whether we finish in this or that position won't be my primary concern but rather that we're buiding something hear for the long term.

Again, this bodes well for the future. Trust me my brothers and sisters. I am, after all, the self-appointe oracle of this forum, mind.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Gurdeep on May 31, 2012, 09:14:40 AM
Looking forward to his first press conference though.

It'll be a damn sight better than Kenny's cringeworthy interviews  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Gurdeep on May 31, 2012, 09:16:04 AM
Cheer up, Martin.  :D

You do realise you will be the forum sacrificial offering if things go mammories up this season.  ;D

lol...squeeky bum time for you this season Martin  :P
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 31, 2012, 12:11:32 PM
I expect results won't come instantly.......Whether we finish in this or that position won't be my primary concern but rather that we're buiding something hear for the long term.

it's too early for excuses, Martin!

Rafa won a European trophy in his first season.  The mickey mouse europa league will have to do for Brendan, come May 2013.  The benchmarks are there.   No excuses.   You judged Rafa very strictly.  What's good for the goose!

 :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on May 31, 2012, 03:41:15 PM
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2usyf5x.jpg)

Chris Bacombe gets asked questions by guests
From a live webchat earlier today, Daily Telegraph

Some highlights (as picked out by me)

Comment From Hans B 
Since Carragher and Gerrard allegedly conspired with Christian Purslow to get rid of Liverpool's last really successful manager, Rafa Benitez; how important is it that Rodgers gets the senior players on his side?
   
Chris Bascombe: "The first part of your question is so ridiculous there really is no point in answering it."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
       
Comment From Kristian Murphy 
Was Rafael Benitez interviewed or actually even considered for the post ? I was a fan who called for the return of Rafa and the rafalution!
   
Chris Bascombe: "No, he wasn't interviewed or considered."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++   

Comment From Rob A 
A lot of managers have done well in their first season in the prem after promotion, before their best players are poached. Jewell with Wigan, Burley Ipswich, Coyle, Holloway, Phil Brown all started well and got lauded as tactical geniuses, then got found and lost their jobs. I fear LFC may have hired a manager of similar ilk. His work at Reading & Watford wasn't impressive and he has a career win ratio of around 30%. Do you think he was just right place right time?
   
Chris Bascombe: "Rodgers is not being judged on one year at Swansea. Clearly that's been a factor, but I can assure you his background has been thoroughly assessed and he is seen as one of a new breed of modern coaches who was always destined for a job this size."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
   
Comment From Dom 
What positions do you think Rodgers needs to strengthen in the squad?
   
Chris Bascombe: "For what I believe is at least the 12th successive season, a decent winger would be a good start. A creative central midfielder, another striker and - possibly - a new left back if Jose Enrique doesn't sort himself out over the summer."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
   
Comment From Steve McKinnell 
What do you think the owners expect from the 2012-11 season? Bearing in mind the two Manchester clubs and the three London clubs will all probably strengthen their squads will an improved style of play and possily not finishing in the top 4 be seen as an improvement?
   
Chris Bascombe: "They won't expect Liverpool to finish in the top four, but they will certainly expect to compete for a top four position. The reality is Liverpool were between 15-20 points short of where the club expected to be last season. A significant improvement in the points tally will satisfy the board the club is moving in the right direction, but there is recognition of the strengths of United/City/Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs. With the greatest of respect, Liverpool were nowhere near the top clubs and were closer to Fulham."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Comment From Guest 
Given the lack of footballing knowledge at the club at present (e.g. Ayre, Henry, Werner) how has this decision been made? Ayre was associated with the decision to hire Hodgson, a complete disaster, and is now the main interviewer for the new managerial position! He's been very good commercially for the club, but the leader of all aspects of a football club he is not.Is there any progress on appointing a true CEO?

Chris Bascombe: "There has certainly been intrigue surrounding the now mythical 'advisors' who FSG deal with. These advisors will have to show themselves eventually because it is unacceptable for major decisions on Liverpool's future to be taken by faceless and unaccountable mystery men. That said, there is plentiful evidence in this process to suggest much of the advice to FSG has been sound. Rodgers is an excellent appointment and he has been thoroughly assessed prior to being offered the job. However the decision was taken - and I disagree entirely with the view they've 'stumbled' onto this appointment - I believe it is the right one."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Comment From Akhil 
Overall, what's your view on what the recent events show about the owners and the way they do things. Looking at it positively: they took the difficult decision to sack a legend, did not approach anyone before doing so (out of respect); took advice; took their time to make their own minds up; were flexible enough to change their preferred structure to suit their preferred candidate. On the negative side: they were impatient with Dalglish; did not have a clue who they wanted to appoint; do not have any football men at the top of the club to advise them?
   
Chris Bascombe: "I think some of the negativity aimed at FSG is extremely harsh. Aside from the stadium issue, which I agree needs resolving urgently and was not subject to enough due diligence prior to their takeover, I'm struggling to see what the owners have done wrong. They were right to remove Hodgson and were compelled to give Dalglish his job back. After such a poor performance in the Premier League, deciding to belatedly pursue the younger manager they'd always craved was a reasonable decision to make. The team was rebuilt with seven new players and all available resources have been ploughed into the squad. In many ways, the real judgement can begin this summer now the club is taking shape they want it to."

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on June 01, 2012, 09:30:41 AM
Dude, is it within the possibiliy of probability you will ever enjoy LFC without Rafa?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on June 01, 2012, 01:55:20 PM
Dude, is it within the possibiliy of probability you will ever enjoy LFC without Rafa?

can you prescribe me some anti-depressants, Doc Martin.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on June 01, 2012, 04:02:52 PM
Today's Press conference audio:

http://t.co/GePapzWG
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on June 01, 2012, 04:47:33 PM
Brendan Rodgers has been confirmed as the new Liverpool manager, with the club owner, John Henry, assuring the former Swansea manager that: "We do not expect miracles overnight."

"Brendan Rodgers' appointment today as manager of Liverpool Football Club is one of the most important steps we will take in building the kind of club on and off the pitch supporters can be excited about," said Henry. "Brendan's comprehensive football philosophy is perfectly aligned with those at the club and those soon to join the club. He was the first choice unanimously among them and he had no hesitation at all in embracing exactly what we want to try to build at Liverpool."

"We do not expect miracles overnight nor should anyone else. But we firmly believe that the direction the club is heading in will lead to Premier League championships. We will embrace the unconventional, build the right way and together set a bold, exciting course for this historic club."

The club added in a statement: "Rodgers' primary focus will be the first team but he'll also work extensively in collaboration with the new football operations structure as the team adheres to the continental football Sporting Director mode."

Rodgers admitted he was relishing the prospect of life at Anfied. "I'm blessed to be given this opportunity," he said. "I want to thank John Henry, Tom Werner and FSG for the opportunity to manage such a great club. I'm really excited and I can't wait to get started on this incredible project going forward. I promise to dedicate my life to fight for this club and defend the great principles of Liverpool Football Club on and off the field."

Rodgers said his mind was made up to move to Merseyside once it became clear he was the club's preferred target. "Once I had found out I was the number one target from the important people at Liverpool it was quite an easy decision," he said.

Liverpool is a step up for Rodgers from his previous jobs at Watford, Reading and Swansea. He also worked under Jose Mourinho at Chelsea and insisted claims he was too inexperienced for the role were unfair.

"My pathway as a young coach has been different to most managers," he said. "I have actually been coaching and working in football for 20 years. At Chelsea I had experience of working with big players.

"I look at Kenny Dalglish, he was the manager [of Liverpool in 1985[ at 34 and resigned at 39. I arrive here at 39."

The Liverpool chairman, Tom Werner, claimed Rodgers would bring "attacking, relentless football" to the club.

"In Brendan we have acquired a very exciting and talented and young manager," the American said. "He's a forward-thinking coach at the forefront of a generation of young managers and will bring to Liverpool attacking, relentless football.

"We did speak to a number of people in the last few weeks, but I want to say Brendan was the only person we made an offer to. He was our first choice and the right choice."

Rodgers is confident he will get time to introduce his methods at Anfield. "This is long-term, that was important to me, to come into a project over a number of years," he said.

"For me [the attraction], is to defend the principles of this great club, offensive football with tactical discipline, and to retain the values of the club. That was the attraction, the history of the club.

"Also the frustration. It has been over 20 years since they won the title. We might not be ready for the title but the process begins today, it's a new cycle, and that is something that we will work towards in the years to come."

Liverpool's search for a new manager has been criticised in some quarters for being too wide-ranging, but their managing director, Ian Ayre, was satisfied with how the club dealt with filling the vacancy.

He said: "There was a process and it was right to have a process. Brendan was at the forefront of that thinking, evidenced by the fact we asked Swansea very early on. He was the only person we made an offer to. We got the person we wanted.

"The process is a private process [but] it's fair to say we considered many people because that's what you should do. You try to understand how any individual fits with the profile."

The Wigan manager, Roberto Martínez, was another to have held talks with Liverpool before they plumped for Rodgers.

Ayre said: "Roberto was one of the people in that process. We went through that with a lot of people. Some people decided to say they were in the process but they weren't. It was all about understanding individuals and matching their skill-sets with the profile.Brendan was at the forefront of that and at the outcome of it and that was exactly what we wanted."

Ayre also explained there would be a new set-up on the football side.

He said: "The structure, and Brendan is aware of this, is a more continental director of football type structure, a collaborative group of people working around the football area.

"We don't expect at this moment in time to have a director of football per se but a group of people working with Brendan to deliver the football side of it."

-------------------------

The Swansea City chairman, Huw Jenkins, has revealed an agreement is in place to prevent the newly appointed Liverpool manager, Brendan Rodgers, signing players from his former club for 12 months.

The Northern Irishman was presented as the new Reds manager on Friday morning after the Merseyside club settled on a compensation package with Swansea. But he will not be able to raid his former club for talent over the next year.

"We have got some protection on Brendan coming back for our players in the initial period, which I think is the right thing," Jenkins told TalkSport. "He has got a timescale to assess things there and that is going to take him while so I've got no worries there. We have got a 12 month respite."
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on June 01, 2012, 06:15:53 PM
The Liverpool chairman, Tom Werner, claimed Rodgers would bring "attacking, relentless football" to the club.
Hmmm...wonder what that is  ::)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on June 01, 2012, 06:42:04 PM
we weren't playing relentless attacking football previously.  This is where we have been going wrong.

in my day, soccer teams played relentless attacking football.  Defending was never needed.  Heck, defending is for pussies and commies.

brendan has obviously gone into that interview and promised the yanks, relentless football and then some.

do we even need two sets of goal-posts.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on June 01, 2012, 07:19:25 PM
This is where we have been going wrong.
They still haven't named their advisers (secretive unaccountable champions of RA football, no doubt).

They also fudged the question about the nature of their search, apparently they spoke to loads of
different people. Like what, officially approached clubs to speak to their managers about the vacancy
at LFC. B.u.l.l.s.h.i.t.

It's difficult not to like BR, comes across as a very decent bloke with a passion for the game. Unfortunately,
imo, the job has come too early in his managerial career, though I'll happily be proved wrong on that. I just
hope that the fans of our club stick by him if things go awry in his first season and the media decide to have
some fun.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on June 01, 2012, 07:27:02 PM
It's difficult not to like BR, comes across as a very decent bloke with a passion for the game. Unfortunately,
imo, the job has come too early in his managerial career, though I'll happily be proved wrong on that. I just
hope that the fans of our club stick by him if things go awry in his first season and the media decide to have
some fun.

I agree, Ed.    It's a massive gamble.  But we are where we are. 

I hope he does well and learns quickly.  It is going to be exceptionally difficult. 

Here we are, 1st of June, all the top players on the continent are away to the euros.....and our new boss has to quickly analyse what we need, and try and find it across europe.  Helluva ask.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on June 01, 2012, 08:59:35 PM
I agree, Ed.    It's a massive gamble.  But we are where we are. 

I hope he does well and learns quickly.  It is going to be exceptionally difficult. 
Agree, clearly he would have learned a lot from his failure at Reading. I think
he said something about trying to change too much too quickly (strip it all down).

Unfortunately, he said he was happy at Swansea (not itching to leave) and from a
footballing perspective, imo, it would have been judicious to have waited to see
how their second season in the top flight panned out i.e. could he tinker with the
formula and improve their position again.

Anyway at least we're guaranteed honesty of effort from him. I'll settle for that in the
short term.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on June 01, 2012, 09:09:43 PM
Interesting that the DOF is off the agenda and instead responsibilities will be split between two or three people but under the instruction of BrenRod. Now didn't we say something similar just the other day (before his appointment)? Tom and Henk would well to make this site their 'homepage' and check in on a daily basis to accelerate and deepen their football education.

Who needs secret advisors? The Anfield Road Forum is the final word.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on June 01, 2012, 09:16:35 PM
Interesting that the DOF is off the agenda and instead responsibilities will be split between two or three people but under the instruction of BrenRod. Now didn't we say something similar just the other day (before his appointment)? Tom and Henk would well to make this site their 'homepage' and check in on a daily basis to accelerate and deepen their football education.

Who needs secret advisors? The Anfield Road Forum is the final word.  :D

yes, we break all the exclusives at Anfield Road.

Ahead of the game.  After 6 games, we knew Kenny was not gonna make it.

And our Scandinavian advisor was way ahead of the rest, when he said Brendan was the new man.

You don;t get this type of footballing intelligence, or insight, at places like RAWK (redandwhitekop)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on June 01, 2012, 10:34:01 PM
Gulp, possibly the most pessimistic analysis of our current plight,
I've read in a long while (didn't find myself vehemently disagreeing
with much of it though). Still a bit too pessimistic, imo, need leaders on
the pitch though, if ever i saw a campaign utterly devoid of leaders on
the field it was last season.

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/06/the-picture-has-changed/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=the-picture-has-changed

And our Scandinavian advisor was way ahead of the rest, when he said Brendan was the new man.
Geez, starting to wonder, maybe he is an adviser for FSG... :o  :o
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on June 02, 2012, 12:35:22 AM
We may have finished 17 points off fourth but we won't start 17 points off fourth. We need to take advantage of that fact.

Will Arsenal and Spurs spend? Will they be able to keep their squads together - Bale, Modric etc.

Will RVP still be at The Emirates? Benyoun was only on loan and Wenger's hardly likely to pay cold currency for a player over 30. Will Arteta stay as fit as he did? How will Wenger do without Pat Rice as his assistant?

Will the Chelsea egos gell? And for whom will they be playing? Hazard's got an attitude problem as big as his fee.

Will City suffer a hangover or finally implode? Will it be Deja Vu or normal service resumed for both Newcastle and Pardew? Pardew's record as a manager is something that indicates that last season was a one off and not the dawn of a Keeganesque (V1) era.

If BrenRod can turn Leon Britton (a West Ham failure under Harry Rednapp) into statistically at Europe's most accurate passer, what can he do with Lucas and Henderson, even Adam and Gerrard? What if he channels Luis' talent into the sort of goalscoring return he showed in the Eredivisie, get's Enrique to focus and add an end product and even manages to get Downing to repeat the form he showed in his last season at Villa?

The one thing he seems to have going for him is his unswerving belief in the way the game should be played. It'll take time, but I don't seem him changing and becoming cautious if things don't get off to a flying start. He bought quite a few of the Swansea team to the club and it seems he has an eye for the right sort of player for the way he wants to play, or at least the ability to mould a player such.
Hopefully he'll have a good look at some of the youngsters and see what he can do with them instead of going out on a relative spending spree. He didn't add too much to the Swansea squad when they got promoted so maybe he can work with those we have at the club first and just add carefully here and there. It would at least reduce the settling in problems we had last season with Kenny bringing in too many AND of too poor a quality, or at least the standard of play he got out of them wasn't what it needed to be.

At least we can't be accused of looking to the past again to get our answers for the future. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on June 02, 2012, 01:20:10 PM
Good post Tes, which made me think about the word time. I do think some time may pass until we win no. 19. But I don't think we'll have to wait that long until we can see Brendan's philosophy translated into on-pitch action. That, more than anything is something I've yearned for, for almost a decade and a half.

For the first time in 2 decades this club's made an appointment that gives the title drought a realistic chance to come to an end. I can't in words describe how happy I am over this appointment.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on June 02, 2012, 02:09:37 PM
I do think some time may pass until we win no. 19.

For the first time in 2 decades this club's made an appointment that gives the title drought a realistic chance to come to an end. I can't in words describe how happy I am over this appointment.

now now, Martin. 

if we had appointed Rafa, and I had then said what you said above i.e. "I do think some time may pass until we win no. 19"......you would be jumping up and down, livid with rage.    ;)

so, just like how you treated Rafa, there can be no excuses for Brendan.  He will get our full support, but he has to hit the ground running.  Competing for the top 4, and being in the mix, is minimum requirement.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on June 02, 2012, 09:28:07 PM
Rafa got 6 seasons and failed. What else is there to say, really? You won't give Brendan 6 halfs before you tell anyone willing to listen he doesn't recognise a balanced side even if it jumped up and bit his cojones, that Rafa infuckingdeed would've spent all that money better yada, yada, yada.

It's too late mate. He got his chance. fork more than a chance and he blew it time and again as his ego grow bigger and bigger. I was the happiest fork around when he signed back in 2004 as he managed one of the best sides I've ever seen - Valencia. But you gorra call it as it is and he just ain't got it. If you got to take on Fergie in a war of words you gorra be sure you win it.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on June 02, 2012, 09:57:58 PM
Rafa got 6 seasons and failed. What else is there to say, really? You won't give Brendan 6 halfs before you tell anyone willing to listen he doesn't recognise a balanced side even if it jumped up and bit his cojones, that Rafa infuckingdeed would've spent all that money better yada, yada, yada.

It's too late mate. He got his chance. fork more than a chance and he blew it time and again as his ego grow bigger and bigger.

Rafa didn't fail.  The people who failed, are those who sh.at upon him, and demanded his sacking.  The people who failed, are those who demanded a change.  The people who failed, are those who demanded the installation of Dalglish.

None of the muppets who succeeded Rafa got anywhere close to his success at Anfield.   And all done on a tiny net budget, relative to our top competitors, both in england and europe.

Martin, your hatred of Rafa does you a disservice.  It is nowhere close to being objective.  And it also paints you into a corner, of your own making re the minimum levels now expected of Brendan Rodgers.  You have made a rod for your own back (as we say in Britain).   

If not winning the title is grounds for the venom you aimed at Rafa, then Brendan is finished before he starts.  He doesn't have a hope in h.ell then, if that is the height of your bar.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on June 03, 2012, 09:11:38 AM
I don't hate Rafa, never did. Was absofuckinglutely over the moon when we signed him. Couldn't believe it was true, he was my no. 1 choice. But as it turned out he lost his head. If trouble didn't come looking for him he was hellbent on finding it. The mere fact he signed + 80 players during his 6 seasons says it all really. In his final three seasons (bar 3 months) our footy became more and more predictable, "lesser" teams came to Anfield knowing putting in a good fight would probably reward them with a point.

In Europe a wizard indeed, in the  Premier league a highly average manager.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on June 03, 2012, 12:30:57 PM
I don't hate Rafa, never did. Was absofuckinglutely over the moon when we signed him. Couldn't believe it was true, he was my no. 1 choice. But as it turned out he lost his head. If trouble didn't come looking for him he was hellbent on finding it. The mere fact he signed + 80 players during his 6 seasons says it all really. In his final three seasons (bar 3 months) our footy became more and more predictable, "lesser" teams came to Anfield knowing putting in a good fight would probably reward them with a point.

In Europe a wizard indeed, in the  Premier league a highly average manager.

again, you are making a rod for your own back.

by calling Rafa, "highly average" in the premiership, despite him finishing top 4 nearly every year, and running Utd close for the title one year, you have placed the bar very high for our new manager.

and all his success built on just over 16 million net per year.  Amazing story of success, built on a shoestring.

and you claim ignorance about Rafa's politicis.  Rafa was always a political animal - you must have seen that at Valencia too.

and as for 80 players in 6 seasons, we had to buy usually at the bottom end, or middle of the market. 

Rafa was a genius (still is).  I hope you give Brendan proper respect.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on June 20, 2012, 11:27:52 AM
Rodgers has scouted the Dutch league whilst at Swansea and its good to see him re-vamping the scouting department.
Hopefully we'll now start scouting young players from Holland, Belguim, Germany and the Scandanavian countries, both in nationality and the youth leagues of those countries.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on June 22, 2012, 04:11:36 PM
been slowly downloading several Swansea torrents.  Almost all down.  I will then get a chance to more fully analyse our new boss.

I have been watching and listening closely.  He talks a great game.  Heck, he talks a helluva lot.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on June 22, 2012, 06:35:38 PM
been slowly downloading several Swansea torrents.  Almost all down.  I will then get a chance to more fully analyse our new boss.

I have been watching and listening closely.  He talks a great game.  Heck, he talks a helluva lot.

Funny that, Dude, I've been thinking the same. I don't remember him having much to say as Swansea boss, but then I never went looking, so maybe he did.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on June 22, 2012, 10:18:21 PM
Funny that, Dude, I've been thinking the same. I don't remember him having much to say as Swansea boss, but then I never went looking, so maybe he did.

it was the same with Hodgson, Tes.  I never realised that he talked so much (most of it rubbish), til he arrived at Liverpool.  At his previous club, I had never picked up on the fact he was such a talker.  Same with Rodgers.   I guess a 20 second soundbyte on Match of the Day, like what happens with the smaller sides' managers, has a great way of condensing a person, and staying on-topic.



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on June 23, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
.......of condensing a person.....

Wouldn't it be nice if we really could condense people.  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on July 14, 2012, 04:53:02 PM
From http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2173509/Brendan-Rodgers-wont-spend-odds-Liverpool-transfers.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2173509/Brendan-Rodgers-wont-spend-odds-Liverpool-transfers.html):

"I am not one to identify a player then let the club go and spend an absolute fortune, when it will come to bite you on the back side."

It's a shame Dalglish and Comolli didn't think even slightly that way with their transfer dealings.

Doing things the way they appear they are going to be done will take far more time than the Man City route but it will be far more satisfying and more in keeping with how we view ourselves as a club if we achieve any success, and let's not wish it to be different, as the Dalglish/Comolli method of 'whatever it costs' didn't work either. Granted they picked the wrong players to try it on but still there's no guarantee that massive outlays bring equally massive results even if tried on 'theoretically better players'.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on July 27, 2012, 11:25:45 PM
Our new manager is now an author:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2179935/Brendan-Rodgers-gives-Liverpool-owners-180-page-dossier-clubs-future.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2179935/Brendan-Rodgers-gives-Liverpool-owners-180-page-dossier-clubs-future.html)

I hope this season's back pages make as good reading for him.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on July 28, 2012, 12:51:18 PM
Our new manager is now an author:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2179935/Brendan-Rodgers-gives-Liverpool-owners-180-page-dossier-clubs-future.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2179935/Brendan-Rodgers-gives-Liverpool-owners-180-page-dossier-clubs-future.html)

I hope this season's back pages make as good reading for him.

and his 180 page has got a methodology, you know.

I'm smart, me.

It's important that you know that.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on July 28, 2012, 01:49:03 PM
Our new manager is now an author:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2179935/Brendan-Rodgers-gives-Liverpool-owners-180-page-dossier-clubs-future.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2179935/Brendan-Rodgers-gives-Liverpool-owners-180-page-dossier-clubs-future.html)

I hope this season's back pages make as good reading for him.
Read it in the Telegraph and felt like throwing up. I just don't understand the need to tell a journalist
this.

The problem for me is this insane narrative that he's conjured up where LFC (18 Titles 5 European Cups)
is some sort of charity case small club that this Giant of modern football (180 pages, 15 years) has decided to resurrect????????

Forgive me for being somewhat cynical but could it not be the case that rather than LFC not being ready to
return to the top 4, a certain manager isn't ready to take us there?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on July 28, 2012, 05:01:39 PM
Our new manager is now an author:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2179935/Brendan-Rodgers-gives-Liverpool-owners-180-page-dossier-clubs-future.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2179935/Brendan-Rodgers-gives-Liverpool-owners-180-page-dossier-clubs-future.html)

I hope this season's back pages make as good reading for him.

I dont understand why hes being way too open about his methodology like youve highlighted. You dont hear Fergie telling us what his success has been built on and hes had 30 years of it. Its naivety out of Rodgers. It leaves us open to being a laughing stock if his methods dont work.

Theres no advantage to be gained by being so open. Your giving other managers the blueprint of how to stop us from playing.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on July 28, 2012, 10:21:43 PM
"I am concentrating on coaching and training my players". Enough said, Brendan.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on July 28, 2012, 11:31:06 PM
"I am concentrating on coaching and training my players". Enough said, Brendan.

 :D

looking back now.......press conferences were never boring with Rafa.

we were often reading between the lines, to work out what was on the great man's mind.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on July 29, 2012, 12:21:57 AM
:D

looking back now.......press conferences were never boring with Rafa.

we were often reading between the lines, to work out what was on the great man's mind.

And Babbelfish was of no help. Maybe it will be more helpful for Brendan's oratories.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on July 29, 2012, 12:41:12 PM
Today's update from Dave Whelan Brendan Rodgers:

Rodgers wants Carroll to stay

29 July 2012




Brendan Rodgers says that there have been no offers for Andy Carroll and insists that he is not looking to push him out of the door.

The striker has been heavily linked with a move away from Liverpool after claims that he did not figure in the plans of new boss Rodgers, with both Newcastle and West Ham keen.

West Ham are reported to have failed with a £17million bid, while Newcastle have tried to take him back on a season-long loan with a view to a permanent move.

However, Rodgers says that he is unaware of any bids for the player and has dismissed claims he wants to move him on before the start of the new season.

When Rodgers was quizzed over whether there had been any bids, he replied: "Not that I am aware of. Obviously I'll know more when we get back.

"There has been a lot written about Andy, but you saw today he's happy to be here and he's worked very well since he's been here.

"The reality is he's still a Liverpool player, he can fit into how I want to play, and he's happy here.

"I'm certainly not wishing to push him out of the door."


http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2012/07/29/Rodgers-wants-striker-stay1/gnid-149123/ (http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2012/07/29/Rodgers-wants-striker-stay1/gnid-149123/)

How about keeping it simple: "We haven't received any bids for Andy Carroll, nor do we want any club wasting their time by making one."

The last line of his quote can be all too easily read as: "I'm certainly not wishing to push him out of the door, however...."

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on July 29, 2012, 03:28:18 PM
How about keeping it simple: "We haven't received any bids for Andy Carroll, nor do we want any club wasting their time by making one."

The last line of his quote can be all too easily read as: "I'm certainly not wishing to push him out of the door, however...."

or   "Those who participated in the acquisition of Carroll have been charged, sentenced and given judicial canings at Melwood.  The water carrier will be available if some other club is stupid enough to pay good money for him.  We are not holding our breath."
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on July 29, 2012, 11:12:42 PM
The water carrier will be available if some other club is stupid enough to pay good money for him.  We are not holding our breath."

Poor old Spearing. Always the bridesmaid................
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on July 30, 2012, 12:49:37 AM
I get the slight vibe that you hold a candle for andy, Tes   :D

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on July 30, 2012, 05:47:03 PM
I get the slight vibe that you hold a candle for andy, Tes   :D

I just think Rodgers has handled it badly on two fronts. He has hardly made it seem publicly that Carroll is going to get the same chance to prove himself as most of the others. The lad was still on holiday when Rodgers first starting casting doubts. Also, by extension his attitude is doing major damage to his valuation and to our ability to recoup the maximum back should/when we decide to sell him.

Firstly, he should never have been signed, irrespective of fee. The fee wasn't of his deciding yet he has to live up to someone else's faux pas. And there is a certain standard you expect from the manager in the way players are treated.

Dude, I don't want him here, but whilst ever he is he deserves to be treated the same as all the other players. I notice there was no reverential speech for Carroll like there was for Gerrard and Carra. And having made ourselves a laughing stock by paying out as much as we did, I don't want us to compound it by getting buttons (or even just his cat) for him.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on July 30, 2012, 10:41:43 PM
I just think Rodgers has handled it badly on two fronts. He has hardly made it seem publicly that Carroll is going to get the same chance to prove himself as most of the others. The lad was still on holiday when Rodgers first starting casting doubts. Also, by extension his attitude is doing major damage to his valuation and to our ability to recoup the maximum back should/when we decide to sell him.

Firstly, he should never have been signed, irrespective of fee. The fee wasn't of his deciding yet he has to live up to someone else's faux pas. And there is a certain standard you expect from the manager in the way players are treated.

Dude, I don't want him here, but whilst ever he is he deserves to be treated the same as all the other players. I notice there was no reverential speech for Carroll like there was for Gerrard and Carra. And having made ourselves a laughing stock by paying out as much as we did, I don't want us to compound it by getting buttons (or even just his cat) for him.

all very valid points, Tes.

we both agree, he never should have been signed.....and certainly not at that money.

as for his treatment under the new boss........I think we will find that the endless media stories by gobsh.ite Rodgers will be a common feature of his time at Anfield.   He is clearly unable to keep his mouth shut about anything.  Like you say, it does not help the club when they want to sell, or recruit, players.

and yes, rather than reverencial speeches for captain marvel and his sidekick, hoofer, our new boss should have been saying that it was a clean-sheet for everyone.....everyone has their chance to prove themselves. 



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on July 31, 2012, 12:26:00 PM
I think we're going to have to get used to the fact that the best we can hope for is to challenge for 'some sort of European football' over the next two seasons or until all the detritus has been cleared from the squad.

Once Rodgers has made up his mind on who he sees as being part of the team/squad in let's say two years time and going forward, he will then have to work through those who don't figure in his plans and gradually rid the club of them.
The wage bill needs to be brought back under control and it will be a case of trim more during each window from it than we add, so the nett effect is an overall reduction, especially if whilst this whole re-balancing proceedure takes place we'll probably be without CL football.

He's going to have to watch things as we will appear to be selling more than buying and we won't be getting the star names, rather hoping to pick up 'the next star', some of the players may feel we lack ambition and the lack of CL football for them will be a problem - Agger, Skrtel, Reina, Suarez being the obvious potential worries.
Rodgers is going to have to eye up potential replacements for certain players (just in case), whilst clearing out and hopefully replacing and upgrading within a structured budget.

I'm trying to tell myself this is what's going to be happening, rather than a simple downsizing.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on August 02, 2012, 12:03:45 PM
Im glad Liverpool seem to have changed the title on this piece because it was initially something like "I need a team full of Carraghers". 

I can understand Carragher has had a great Liverpool career, hes been a brilliant servant to the club and to play 700 games is a huge achievement. He will deservedly go down as a Liverpool great and deserves the plaudits he receives. But for how long more do managers have to put Carragher on a pedestal? Hes not the future so why do we continue to treat him like he is. Carragher continues to have his ego stroked as if hes an integral part of our defence. In my opinion Hypia was a technically superior player but he was allowed to just walk out of the club when LFC felt his time was up. I suppose I just dont understand why Carragher is picked out for special praise as a current player in our squad when there are younger more important players to the future of the club being ignored.

Like singling him out for praise in the preseason game against spurs, I genuinely dont get it.  :(

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/boss-we-want-more-carraghers

Brendan Rodgers has labelled Jamie Carragher a 'model professional' as Bootle's finest hopes to make his 700th appearance in a red shirt.

Liverpool's No.23 is in Belarus preparing for the Europa League third round qualifier, first leg tie with FC Gomel tonight, and while the boss is giving nothing away in terms of who will be in his starting XI, he has huge admiration and respect for Carragher.

Rodgers told Liverpoolfc.com: "He's a phenomenal character. I've watched him from the outside for many years and to play 700 games at a club as prestigious as this is incredible.

"The pressures that come with wearing the shirt at this club are vast and for him it's a way of life. He's devoted his life to being a football player. He's 34 now, so it doesn't get any easier when you are older, but certainly I've been very impressed over the course of the pre-season.

"I saw him when he came off during the Tottenham game after an hour and he still looked very fresh and that's a great testament not only to the work he is putting in every day but also to how he leads his life away from the field with his preparation.

"He's a model professional and if we can develop kids here like Jamie Carragher and go on to have a career like him then certainly the club won't go too far wrong.

"He's a phenomenal player, an incredible character and one that I'm happy to have by my side."
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on August 02, 2012, 02:20:35 PM

"I saw him when he came off during the Tottenham game after an hour and he still looked very fresh and that's a great testament not only to the work he is putting in every day but also to how he leads his life away from the field with his preparation.


Bizarre nonsense considering the season hasn't even started..
Wait a couple of weeks to hear the 'we've played quite a few games in the last month and '..

Carra still has a part, but only as a sub surely...i can think of at least ten games last season when he was culpable for a goal...usually when his legs were going....
Young quick strikers must love to see his name on the team sheet...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on August 02, 2012, 04:18:43 PM
Bizarre nonsense considering the season hasn't even started..
Wait a couple of weeks to hear the 'we've played quite a few games in the last month and '..

Carra still has a part, but only as a sub surely...i can think of at least ten games last season when he was culpable for a goal...usually when his legs were going....
Young quick strikers must love to see his name on the team sheet...

Agreed on all that Bart.

Last ditch body on the line tackles are great and everything but surely if Carra were in position or not caught out in the first place last ditch tackles wouldnt be so necessary.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 02, 2012, 05:18:07 PM
Im glad Liverpool seem to have changed the title on this piece because it was initially something like "I need a team full of Carraghers". 

I can understand Carragher has had a great Liverpool career, hes been a brilliant servant to the club and to play 700 games is a huge achievement. He will deservedly go down as a Liverpool great and deserves the plaudits he receives. But for how long more do managers have to put Carragher on a pedestal? Hes not the future so why do we continue to treat him like he is. Carragher continues to have his ego stroked as if hes an integral part of our defence. In my opinion Hypia was a technically superior player but he was allowed to just walk out of the club when LFC felt his time was up. I suppose I just dont understand why Carragher is picked out for special praise as a current player in our squad when there are younger more important players to the future of the club being ignored.

Like singling him out for praise in the preseason game against spurs, I genuinely dont get it.  :(


Juan, thanks for putting my thoughts into print for more eloquently or accurately than I can do.

It's a shame the likes of Carroll don't get the same respectful treatment.

I'd rather he was looking to the likes of Suso and Robinson, and how to get the best out of Pacheco.

And whilst we're talking about senior players, then Bellamy has all the tools, plus the hunger, to play the 'Rodgers way' and if we need Carra, we sure as Hell need Bellamy, especially if Carroll leaves.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on August 02, 2012, 06:45:54 PM
Juan, thanks for putting my thoughts into print for more eloquently or accurately than I can do.

It's a shame the likes of Carroll don't get the same respectful treatment.

I'd rather he was looking to the likes of Suso and Robinson, and how to get the best out of Pacheco.

And whilst we're talking about senior players, then Bellamy has all the tools, plus the hunger, to play the 'Rodgers way' and if we need Carra, we sure as Hell need Bellamy, especially if Carroll leaves.

The Bellamy situation is baffling Tes. I know Ed224 told us he was going and Ive read two reports in the last few days again repeating what Ed has told us already, hes on the verge of signing for Cardiff.

I dont understand the under utilisation of Bellamy. He was a fixture in Dalglishs team for a while but for a lot of the second half of the season he had a bit part to play. I get he may not be able to play every game but Giggs is 7-8 years older and is still playing 30 + games a season. When he does play he always shows more than the likes of Downing but is always the one to be substituted. To let him go is letting another 10 million pound player walk out the door. The excuse that will be thrown out there will be he wants to be closer to his family but I reckon Bellamy would stick around if he were getting his game.

And the only reason we need Carragher is because the last two managers were afraid to tell him hes done and it looks like Rodgers will be the same. In the last 3 windows he hasnt been replaced. I wouldnt mind at the peak of his powers Carragher was technically dodgy. He had the heart of a lion, he could read the game well and his tackling could be immense but he used get a nose bleed if he had to take the ball past the half way line. He didnt know what to do with it. He was never a good passer and he often just launched it.

Instead we will probably see our ball playing centre back Agger that was born to playing in a passing side shipped off to Manchester or Barcelona.

Dont get me wrong Rodgers will enjoy my complete support for as long as it takes to turn this club around. Its off the field that hes already been a little disappointing though. You couldnt be  impressed by whats coming out of his mouth and so far some of his decisions have been suspect.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 02, 2012, 07:08:48 PM
Dont get me wrong Rodgers will enjoy my complete support for as long as it takes to turn this club around. Its off the field that hes already been a little disappointing though. You couldnt be  impressed by whats coming out of his mouth and so far some of his decisions have been suspect.

I was hoping he wouldn't play the PR game or give himself an easier ride by avoiding facing the Carragher issue head on.

This is one of the reasons we've ended up where we have after 20 years of (mainly) slow decline.

I worry it'll take him a couple of seasons before he really feels he's earned the right to deal with issues like Gerrard and Carra. Issues that he knows will cause problems for him amongst a number of our fans, and that he will feel able to make those sort of decisions without feeling any backlash is actually a problem.

I imagine there'd have been disgruntled voices in the pubs when Emlyn Hughes was dispatched to Wolves and Tommy Smith to Swansea but Paisley had a job to do and did it without fear or favour.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on August 02, 2012, 09:25:53 PM
I was hoping he wouldn't play the PR game or give himself an easier ride by avoiding facing the Carragher issue head on.

This is one of the reasons we've ended up where we have after 20 years of (mainly) slow decline.

I worry it'll take him a couple of seasons before he really feels he's earned the right to deal with issues like Gerrard and Carra. Issues that he knows will cause problems for him amongst a number of our fans, and that he will feel able to make those sort of decisions without feeling any backlash is actually a problem.

I imagine there'd have been disgruntled voices in the pubs when Emlyn Hughes was dispatched to Wolves and Tommy Smith to Swansea but Paisley had a job to do and did it without fear or favour.

Agreed Tes.

We need the manager to pick the team based on performance and not on reputation.

I just hate seeing a manager trying to tell you how good someone is when you know from watching the games they actually arent up to much. Tonight was poor, I can accept that because we are still in preseason and its going to take a while for Rodgers to work some magic. Some players will come on leaps and bounds but out of that team there will be others that wont. I just hope Rodgers faces up to that fact and deals with it as necessary. The longer he is denial about how capable some of these players are the longer we will be in the Premier League wilderness.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 02, 2012, 09:35:15 PM
Agreed Tes.

We need the manager to pick the team based on performance and not on reputation.

I just hate seeing a manager trying to tell you how good someone is when you know from watching the games they actually arent up to much. Tonight was poor, I can accept that because we are still in preseason and its going to take a while for Rodgers to work some magic. Some players will come on leaps and bounds but out of that team there will be others that wont. I just hope Rodgers faces up to that fact and deals with it as necessary. The longer he is denial about how capable some of these players are the longer we will be in the Premier League wilderness.

Spot on, as usual, Juan. If they can't adapt and pick up the technical and/or tactical methods Rodgers wants the team to employ, then they're of no use, no matter what they may have achieved before.
Therefore if they're of no use, move them on and acquire players who fit the mould. You don't see Arsenal and Stoke go after the same players very often, for that very reason.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on August 02, 2012, 11:42:37 PM
Spot on, as usual, Juan. If they can't adapt and pick up the technical and/or tactical methods Rodgers wants the team to employ, then they're of no use, no matter what they may have achieved before.
Therefore if they're of no use, move them on and acquire players who fit the mould. You don't see Arsenal and Stoke go after the same players very often, for that very reason.

The problem is...can any of our squad start to play tica taca footie??
On tonights performance...Raheem Sterling can, maybe borini...skrtel played well...and the rest?
Does not bode well...

p.s. on a positive note...i thought the new strip looked good...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 03, 2012, 10:28:46 AM
Any of our squad should be able to do the following:

1. Pass the ball and then move into space to make an option for the player they've just passed to (depending
    on position of said player and range of pass made).
2. Move into space and away from any opposition player into a position that gives the man with the ball an 
    easy and quick option for a pass.
3. Keep possession of the ball until a short to medium range pass can be made and not be hurried into hoofing
    it, or run out of patience and hoof it.
4. Choose a pass that can be made simply and easily lessening the chances of giving the ball away.

5. Close down the opponent who has the ball if he is in reasonably close proximity. By closing down I, mean
    exactly that. Stay right on top of the opponent keeping yourself between the ball and the path of a likely
    pass with the opponent's chosen foot, thereby forcing him onto his weaker foot to make a pass. Do not push
    or place a hand on the opponent. Do not wave your foot at the ball in a vain attempt to 'win it'. Watch what
    the ball is doing rather than the opponent's body movements or foot movement then you won't 'sell yourself'
    or be the victim of some form of 'dummy'.
6. If your team mate is closing down an opponent or 'staying tight' to an opponent, if you are closest to your 
    opponent's closest team mate, especially if that team mate is behind said opponent, be on your toes ready
    to close down that team mate or better still either move much closer to or right up to that team mate. There is
    a good chance that if your team mate has done his job correctly then the opponent will be forced to turn and
    play the ball back to said team mate. Therefore, you are already in a position to close down, put under   
    pressure, or even win the ball back through interception, or mis-control from your opponent who you have
    closed down and put under instant pressure.

And why should they all be able to do it. Because they are supposed to be PROFESSIONAL footballers.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 03, 2012, 04:17:17 PM
there ye go again with that common sense stuff, Tes.

seriously though, would be fascinating to see the distance that our players are covering now, compared to when Rafa was in charge.  I suspect they have got a lot more lazy.  I won;t name names.....yet.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 03, 2012, 08:56:48 PM
seriously though, would be fascinating to see the distance that our players are covering now, compared to when Rafa was in charge.  I suspect they have got a lot more lazy.  I won;t name names.....yet.

The first two seasons under Rafa we would close down straight away and squeeze the life out of teams.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 03, 2012, 09:04:19 PM
The first two seasons under Rafa we would close down straight away and squeeze the life out of teams.

exactly......we were similar to valencia, for a time, after Rafa took over.

if I could ask Rafa a football-related question, it would be why after a year or two, did he stop persisting with that valencia-style - of 2 or 3 reds harrying the opposition player when he had the ball.

my suspicion is that it was unsustainable (energy-wise) in the very physical premiership league.

our yankee owners would have learned a lot, if they had asked Rafa for his views.  I suspect that, if they had got his advice, they would not have pursued a tika-taka Barca approach type new manager.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 03, 2012, 10:00:58 PM
Arsenal have tried the tikety-tackety approach in recent seasons and........

Yes, you have to play a possession based type of football, but you also need the pace and when required, aggression. It's OK simply keeping possession, but if you don't turn defence into attack quickly enough you get faced with two blocks of four or even 10 men behind the ball.

Taggart has always blended pace, possession and strength/aggression well, like we did in our heyday, and City had that last season, as did Chelsea under Mourinho. The ratio of the blend was different in all 3 teams, but they all had it and had enough of the three characteristics to make an effective impact.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 04, 2012, 12:39:42 AM
exactly, there is not one approach that one calls upon, but instead, several.

only a tiny immature brain would think otherwise.

and look at arsenal, they competed with united for the title, when they had a physically strong central midfielder (viera).  When he left, they never replaced him......instead relying on fruity tika taka football....and it has got them nowhere.

in our hey day, we had souness...and then mcmahon.......we never replaced  the latter.....and look how we fell away.

fruity tiny central midfeilders do not cut the mustard..........5 feet 6 inch joe allen does not inspire me, at all.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 04, 2012, 12:41:28 PM
exactly, there is not one approach that one calls upon, but instead, several.

only a tiny immature brain would think otherwise.

and look at arsenal, they competed with united for the title, when they had a physically strong central midfielder (viera).  When he left, they never replaced him......instead relying on fruity tika taka football....and it has got them nowhere.

in our hey day, we had souness...and then mcmahon.......we never replaced  the latter.....and look how we fell away.

fruity tiny central midfeilders do not cut the mustard..........5 feet 6 inch joe allen does not inspire me, at all.

When we were the top team, and the Mancs have also done it, we learned that sometimes you have to win 'ugly'. Scrape a victory off the floor of a poor performance, meet the physical or defensive challenge and take the limited chances. But you have to have the desire to and understanding of winning ugly. You can't turn your nose up at it, always wanting to win with a 10 for artistic impression.

Likewise tactics, formation, personnel have to be tweaked if a game develops in a certain direction, especially if it's one that doesn't suit your intended Plan A.

Having a Plan A is fine but you need a Plan B, and even C would be sensible. Maybe you have to utilise Plan A+B.

Should we turn our nose up at a more direct style of chance creation, ie, Pepe throws the ball out to just over the halfway line to our left wide forward, who takes one touch to push the ball infront of himself and then sweeps a diagonal early ball into the area, where one of our players is breaking forward and without breaking stride sweeps the ball into the net. Goal to goal in 4 touches. Direct football, hardly tippy-tappy.

We need to add more physical (but with technical ability) depths and more (or even some) pace into our first team. Both are huge desirable and affective assets in the PL.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on August 04, 2012, 07:18:00 PM
there ye go again with that common sense stuff, Tes.

seriously though, would be fascinating to see the distance that our players are covering now, compared to when Rafa was in charge.  I suspect they have got a lot more lazy.  I won;t name names.....yet.

Agreed dude tes as usual talking sense.

Im worried for this season. Its nothing to do as such with rodgers, i think he needs time to make his mark. With the tired looking squad we have without much fresh imputes i actually think we look like we could be scrapping it out for mid table. I seriously see us potentially finishing tenth. Any optimism for overachievment is gone.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on August 04, 2012, 07:45:27 PM
By the way what was the story with rodgers open letter to the fans that travelled to thursdays game. My initial reaction was odd and a bit try hard cringeworthy. I dont mind gestures like that but only if they are not for the point of just making a gesture. I personally feel it was a calculated move to win the fans over. Concentrate on the job at hand and leave results do the talking.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 04, 2012, 09:48:14 PM
By the way what was the story with rodgers open letter to the fans that travelled to thursdays game. My initial reaction was odd and a bit try hard cringeworthy. I dont mind gestures like that but only if they are not for the point of just making a gesture. I personally feel it was a calculated move to win the fans over. Concentrate on the job at hand and leave results do the talking.

I don't know, Juan. Seems a bit strange and it's odd the really know what was behind it. Coming from the background he does, maybe he was just genuinely surprised by how many fans made the trip, and therefore felt moved to show his gratitude.

I think we have to take it at face value and appreciate that he thought it worth taking time to do what he did.

If we're not careful we run the risk to examining everything to the nth degree and looking for things that aren't there or suspecting there to by agendas when they're aren't.

As we have to expect mistakes, I also think we have to expect certain things we've not seen before. We've never had a manager so inexperienced at the job in our modern history.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 05, 2012, 03:11:10 PM
By the way what was the story with rodgers open letter to the fans that travelled to thursdays game. My initial reaction was odd and a bit try hard cringeworthy. I dont mind gestures like that but only if they are not for the point of just making a gesture. I personally feel it was a calculated move to win the fans over. Concentrate on the job at hand and leave results do the talking.

yes, I cringed too, Juan, at another of his letters (least it wasn;t a 180 page report this time).

it's all self-serving drivel, to try and make himself look so great, so decent (I wonder how swansea feel about this guy)



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 05, 2012, 03:21:17 PM
Im worried for this season. Its nothing to do as such with rodgers, i think he needs time to make his mark. With the tired looking squad we have without much fresh imputes i actually think we look like we could be scrapping it out for mid table. I seriously see us potentially finishing tenth. Any optimism for overachievment is gone.

yes, anywhere from 6th to 10th is where I see us at.

and when you get to that mid-table level, there will be occasional times when a club looks over it;s shoulder, lest it get dragged into a dogfight at the bottom.

we have sold or released our finest players, and replaced, or are replacing, them with inexperienced lads of lesser ability. 

And after appointing two managerial morons, we desperately needed to get the right man in to manage the club.  We could not afford to fe.ck up a third time in a row.  But we have, and very badly.  Rodgers might even be worse than woy or kenny. 

and our cowboy owners (and rodgers) think that the manager has 2 or 3 seasons to succeed.  That shows how out of touch they are.  If we are mid-table at Christmas, the heckles in the crowd at Anfield will be audible....and come March and April, the jeers will be deafening. 

I suspect these yankee owners will need to be encouraged to leave.  And come March/April, that is what I think our jeering fans should focus on.  Everything they touch, turns to poo.  They are treating the club as a pet project.....something of idle interest.  Despite not having the foggiest notion about football, they still insist on making the major football-related decisions themselves.  They are footballing-morons.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 05, 2012, 03:31:37 PM
Apart from the Glazers, but then they bought a money making machine, non of the American owners of clubs in the PL seem to like spending on the aquisition of players.

Obviously American sports don't have transfer fees, just wages, and the lower you finish the nearer the top of the list you are when it comes to picking free agents and recruiting from the college scene, but surely they knew this before buying into their respective clubs, or did they just presume, as is the American way, that football over here was bound to be the same as their sports setups.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 05, 2012, 03:45:34 PM
we have sold or released our finest players, and replaced, or are replacing, them with inexperienced lads of lesser ability.

It's not just that we've done that, but it's the prices we've paid relative to the prices we've received, to buy players that were all huge downgrades on the players they were replacing. And then there's the salaries we've handed out meaning that they're stuck to this club like superclue and by doing this we've removed any room to manouevre in attempting to correct any mistake we've made with any of the players.

In downgrading so many players and by so much, we should be sitting on a huge transfer fund if the prices paid were relative and proportionate to the amounts received.

At least so far this Summer we've not gone out and spent either huge sums or brought in half a team's worth of players, so we haven't made things worse or ended up with a whole of lot of new players trying to settle in and learn 'a new style of play' whilst those already here are trying to erase everything they previously learned about football and start all over again.

I shall now go and scrub my hands after scrapping through the contents of the bottom of the barrel to find some positives.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 05, 2012, 05:00:23 PM
Having a Plan A is fine but you need a Plan B, and even C would be sensible. Maybe you have to utilise Plan A+B.

Should we turn our nose up at a more direct style of chance creation, ie, Pepe throws the ball out to just over the halfway line to our left wide forward, who takes one touch to push the ball infront of himself and then sweeps a diagonal early ball into the area, where one of our players is breaking forward and without breaking stride sweeps the ball into the net. Goal to goal in 4 touches. Direct football, hardly tippy-tappy.

We need to add more physical (but with technical ability) depths and more (or even some) pace into our first team. Both are huge desirable and affective assets in the PL.

agreed.
 
a top team has numerous styles and tempos to call upon, when needed.
 
and can vary the tempo too (I think of the awesome brazil teams, and germany and italy too) that could change tempo in a heartbeat, when being offensive (fast counter-attacks), or defensive (to stiffle opposition).
 
when needed, that quick long throw-out from Pepe can be used to get fast counter-attacks underway.
 
but look at us - how will the gobsh.ite have tica-taca football, when hoofer (carra) is at the centre of our defence.  And Captain Marvel is hardly known for his belief in possession football (what with his usual 200MPH Hollywood passes). 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 05, 2012, 05:10:48 PM
In downgrading so many players and by so much, we should be sitting on a huge transfer fund if the prices paid were relative and proportionate to the amounts received.

At least so far this Summer we've not gone out and spent either huge sums or brought in half a team's worth of players, so we haven't made things worse or ended up with a whole of lot of new players trying to settle in and learn 'a new style of play' whilst those already here are trying to erase everything they previously learned about football and start all over again.

exactly.

we are morons, even in the downgrading business.

we should, as you say, be sitting on a major war-chest of money, acquired from all these downgrades.  But we are not.  Instead, we are looking at throwing major money at the likes of an old yankee player at fulham, who is entering the final year of his contract. 

how many morons are employed at anfield.  Is there not a single person there with a titter of wit.

if WE have a player who is entering the final year of his contract, we get either nothing or else peanuts for him.  But when the shoe is on the other foot, we end up paying major money to other clubs when their lad is entering his final year of his contract. 

we badly miss Parry (I know you will probably not entirely agree, Tes).

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 05, 2012, 05:20:39 PM
Apart from the Glazers, but then they bought a money making machine, non of the American owners of clubs in the PL seem to like spending on the aquisition of players.

the more you deal with americans (and I have dealt with a lot of them in the past few years), the more you realise the skinflints they are.  They want to spend YOUR money, never their own.  Their big ideas and projects are built with others' money.  And in big business, it's all about leverage.

I see in today's Express, there are murmurs that Lerner might be interested in selling up at Villa.  They had a great manager, in O'Neill, but then refused to stop backing him.....thus he resigned.  They have been on a downward spiral ever since.

the only *successful* yankee owners in British football, have been the Glazers at United.....but again, their project is based on debt and leverage. 

I think we would be best to never see american owners again at Anfield.   Why oh why, with all the massive monies in Russia, Qatar (and the rest of the middle east),   could we do no better than acquiring successive yankee owners.

and when you think about it (beyond money), the yankee take on life is at the opposite end of the spectrum, from the Liverpool/scouse take on how life should be lived.

this weekend, I have started to think that the americans should sell up and leave.





Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 05, 2012, 06:39:46 PM
the more you deal with americans (and I have dealt with a lot of them in the past few years), the more you realise the skinflints they are.  They want to spend YOUR money, never their own.  Their big ideas and projects are built with others' money.  And in big business, it's all about leverage.

I see in today's Express, there are murmurs that Lerner might be interested in selling up at Villa.  They had a great manager, in O'Neill, but then refused to stop backing him.....thus he resigned.  They have been on a downward spiral ever since.

the only *successful* yankee owners in British football, have been the Glazers at United.....but again, their project is based on debt and leverage. 

I think we would be best to never see american owners again at Anfield.   Why oh why, with all the massive monies in Russia, Qatar (and the rest of the middle east),   could we do no better than acquiring successive yankee owners.

and when you think about it (beyond money), the yankee take on life is at the opposite end of the spectrum, from the Liverpool/scouse take on how life should be lived.

this weekend, I have started to think that the americans should sell up and leave.

We want owners that run us a business and aim for us to be self sufficent and self funding but who realise in order to do that we need to spend on a top CEO/MD and build a structure, especially in scouting and transfer negotiations that gives a manager the support network required. Also, whilst most of our players should come via good scouting or youth development sometimes you have to spend big on a strategic signing. Sometimes a certain player in a certain position can not be aquired any other way than by spending, and we need owners that see that and are prepared to do when needs be.

This chaining up the purse that the owners have is also short sighted and feels like a case of the fans being punished. We're not buying the players we need to challenge for 4th, yet ticket prices aren't being reduced to make up for the fact that we as fans aren't likely to be seeing the degree of successful we would like too.

Also, at what point do the Americans take their share of the blame for all the money spent? They appointed Comolli and Dalglish. They either gave Commolli the power to negotiate whatever he saw fit and they just handed over the money, or they had the final say on a case by case basis. The have to share in a good portion of the blame and therefore can't just scope up their wallets and head off home.
They have a responsibility to help fund a way out of the mess they helped create and not just cut off the funding in a fit of pique, as it's just the fans that end up being punished.   
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 05, 2012, 07:07:48 PM
Also, at what point do the Americans take their share of the blame for all the money spent? They appointed Comolli and Dalglish. They either gave Commolli the power to negotiate whatever he saw fit and they just handed over the money, or they had the final say on a case by case basis. The have to share in a good portion of the blame and therefore can't just scope up their wallets and head off home.
They have a responsibility to help fund a way out of the mess they helped create and not just cut off the funding in a fit of pique, as it's just the fans that end up being punished.   

yes, this is an issue that I have raised across my life.  When an owner, or chief exec, continually gets appointments wrong, why do we not sack the appointer, and find  a top exec who CAN spot a good manager.

I hope the yanks redevelop anfield.  If they do, that will be about the only good decision they have made for the club (since taking it off the hands of the toxic twins).

beyond that, I want them to either appoint a top exec to run the club, or else to sell it.

I really do not want to hear from the yanks again.  Football-on-the-pitch-wise, football-business wise, they have nothing to tell us, that we do not already know.    We have forgotten more about the game, and how it should be run, that these yankee owners.   


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 05, 2012, 08:02:01 PM
I found a massive Swansea forum.  I will post some of their fans views on Rodgers, as and when I see them.
 





http://forum.planetswans.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=125552&start=16 (http://forum.planetswans.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=125552&start=16)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 05, 2012, 08:16:27 PM
more comments from Swansea fans

Quote
I wish BR would just keep his mouth shut.

Quote
I aint bitter ,I really don't care about the man , I think laudrup will do well here  - its just the s**t spouting from BR mouth!

Quote
It does not give me any pleasure to say this, but rodgers is full of sh*t. biggest load of rubbish i've heard in years. Why can't he keep his mouth shut and just get on with his job as liverpool manager, he's setting himself up for a fall.

Quote
What is currently coming out of St Brendan's mouth is making even old old cynic like me weep .
He'll shortly be paying homgae to Hillsborough campaign.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 05, 2012, 09:05:23 PM
So it's not just us that thinks he flaps his gums too much.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 05, 2012, 10:39:57 PM
more comments from Swansea fans

I wonder what they think of 'the agreement'. If either the club or Rodgers even hinted at not looking to buy a Swansea player for a certain time period, then we should stay true to that agreement. It's fundamental principals like honesty and decency that we should fight to uphold. We don't need to disregard them in order to make ourselves more competitive.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 05, 2012, 11:00:18 PM
I wonder what they think of 'the agreement'. If either the club or Rodgers even hinted at not looking to buy a Swansea player for a certain time period, then we should stay true to that agreement. It's fundamental principals like honesty and decency that we should fight to uphold. We don't need to disregard them in order to make ourselves more competitive.

it has been fascinating reading the threads in two major swansea forums.

their fans were livid that he came back to break that agreement.....and also livid that details of allen's contract got leaked to the media by *someone*

the consensus pretty much was that he was an ego, a big talker, all spin, and it was always all about brendan rodgers.....everything revolved around him.

I saw several refer to watford and reading, and many swansea fans referred to how badly thought of he is, amongst the fans of those two clubs.

some referred to the myth that rodgers created the swansea style, and that instead that it was the previous manager (mancini) that actually created that passing style....and that BR only added to it by bringing in sinclair.

I was interested that one fan said that rodgers was always mouth and enjoyed the spotlight.....but that he had gone into overdrive in the final few months of this season (about how great he was, great football, how the club has been so well developed, etc).    If that was the case, it makes me wonder if he was angling for a move.

but you will see threads entitled LIAR.......and     And the BS Keeps on Flowing - see
http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/160130-And-the-BS-keeps-on-flowing?s=042723a7c71539e70ac36004f329987a (http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/160130-And-the-BS-keeps-on-flowing?s=042723a7c71539e70ac36004f329987a)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 06, 2012, 01:06:42 AM
And all this from the fans of a club that you would have thought were odds on to go down, but didn't, and in fact didn't struggle at all, weren't in the drop zone, finished a very creditable 12th and were lauded for their football.

Maybe he will start to change when we don't get the sort of success (relatively speaking) that he had at Swansea and the press start to get on his case, as they will do. Next to the England job, the Liverpool manager's job has to come wit the biggest bullseye attached.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 06, 2012, 01:30:32 PM
And all this from the fans of a club that you would have thought were odds on to go down, but didn't, and in fact didn't struggle at all, weren't in the drop zone, finished a very creditable 12th and were lauded for their football.

Maybe he will start to change when we don't get the sort of success (relatively speaking) that he had at Swansea and the press start to get on his case, as they will do. Next to the England job, the Liverpool manager's job has to come wit the biggest bullseye attached.

many swansea fans feel very let down.......they (according to some fans) took him off the scrap-heap (after his bad experiences at watford and reading.

yes, the london media seem to despise and hate everything linked to Liverpool (not just the football club).  The endless drivel from BR is mana to their ears.  They will use that to crucify him when things go pear-shaped.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 06, 2012, 09:18:35 PM
many swansea fans feel very let down.......they (according to some fans) took him off the scrap-heap (after his bad experiences at watford and reading.

There's certainly a case to made for him to have stayed, repaid the loyalty his players and fans showed him, and proven that the 'second season' can be as good as the first or that it was no fluke.

I'm just dubious that a young manager very much cutting his teeth at the top level was what we needed when maybe we've got two seasons at best to get back in  the CL or risk being locked out by FFP if it is levied properly.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 06, 2012, 09:32:37 PM
There's certainly a case to made for him to have stayed, repaid the loyalty his players and fans showed him, and proven that the 'second season' can be as good as the first or that it was no fluke.

I'm just dubious that a young manager very much cutting his teeth at the top level was what we needed when maybe we've got two seasons at best to get back in  the CL or risk being locked out by FFP if it is levied properly.

yes, after two rubbish appointments, we could not afford a third successive plonker of a manager.

this was not the time to take such a massive risk on a newbie.

I fear that Rodgers will actually be worse than Woy or Kenny.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 06, 2012, 11:15:14 PM
yes, after two rubbish appointments, we could not afford a third successive plonker of a manager.

this was not the time to take such a massive risk on a newbie.

I fear that Rodgers will actually be worse than Woy or Kenny.

Quality and experience was what was needed. Whilst nothing can be guaranteed, we needed someone who would halt the decline and quickly turn things around by keeping the right players, getting the maximum out of them and knowing who and what was needed to supplement them with. Someone who understood all aspects of managing a big club and who was able to slap the owners with his CV if they ever tried getting 'too involved'.

Not getting Carlo Ancelotti when all that was required was patience and the nerve to only let the caretaker caretake was a huge mistake. At the time it was too soon to think about Rafa but they've boxed themselves into a corner I think. Hopefully Rodgers won't have us considering 'who else', but it's the biggest gamble this club has taken for at least 50 years.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 07, 2012, 12:06:22 AM
Quality and experience was what was needed. Whilst nothing can be guaranteed, we needed someone who would halt the decline and quickly turn things around by keeping the right players, getting the maximum out of them and knowing who and what was needed to supplement them with. Someone who understood all aspects of managing a big club and who was able to slap the owners with his CV if they ever tried getting 'too involved'.

Not getting Carlo Ancelotti when all that was required was patience and the nerve to only let the caretaker caretake was a huge mistake. At the time it was too soon to think about Rafa but they've boxed themselves into a corner I think. Hopefully Rodgers won't have us considering 'who else', but it's the biggest gamble this club has taken for at least 50 years.

 good post.
 
 yes, if the yanks knew anything about English football, they would have known that this gamble (on a young inexperienced manager) has never ever worked at a top club (dalglish took over a success super-tanker in 85, and was guided by bob paisley and colleagues).
 
 but their arrogance, and their pet-project approach, is ruining the club.
 
 you cannot operate a top club, from another continent (especially when you do not know the first thing about the sport).
 
 Ancelotti or Rafa.....the owners had to bring in someone of that ilk. 
 
 I feel they should go.  I honestly do.  I have seem enough of them by now.  We will go nowhere under their ownership, apart from mid-table mediocrity.
 
 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 07, 2012, 01:02:55 AM
  you cannot operate a top club, from another continent (especially when you do not know the first thing about the sport).
 

The only way that is possible is by already having the administration in place (like the Glazers had) or by putting it in place. No CEO, no football men in the boardroom to guide, advise and educate the board, our media and PR team(s) are a disaster (when was the last time the Mancs had a negative press), do we even have a legal team? Who dreams up the contracts? Where are the potential 'buy back' clauses, or even more crucially, the sell on clauses. Why do we insert stupid clauses that allow a player to leave for £1M (Kuyt) yet we don't have huge buy out clauses, or at least huge minimum bid clauses.

A top CEO would have seen the potential of signing someone like Kagawa. Not only is he a top class player, he's also a revenue earner in the Far East. How much have the Mancs made out of Park's popularity in the Far East? More than his earnings have cost them I would imagine.

I'm not saying buy an Asian player for the absolute sake of it, but there are some good younger players, players that would at least upgrade the squad player they would replace and the income from him would more than cover any costs, whilst raising our profile in the Far East and attracting new fans. Once upon a time we were the first team to sell a space on our shirt for Hitachi to tell the world of it's existance.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 08, 2012, 05:36:14 PM
The only way that is possible is by already having the administration in place (like the Glazers had) or by putting it in place. No CEO, no football men in the boardroom to guide, advise and educate the board, our media and PR team(s) are a disaster (when was the last time the Mancs had a negative press), do we even have a legal team? Who dreams up the contracts? Where are the potential 'buy back' clauses, or even more crucially, the sell on clauses. Why do we insert stupid clauses that allow a player to leave for £1M (Kuyt) yet we don't have huge buy out clauses, or at least huge minimum bid clauses.

A top CEO would have seen the potential of signing someone like Kagawa. Not only is he a top class player, he's also a revenue earner in the Far East. How much have the Mancs made out of Park's popularity in the Far East? More than his earnings have cost them I would imagine.

I'm not saying buy an Asian player for the absolute sake of it, but there are some good younger players, players that would at least upgrade the squad player they would replace and the income from him would more than cover any costs, whilst raising our profile in the Far East and attracting new fans. Once upon a time we were the first team to sell a space on our shirt for Hitachi to tell the world of it's existance.

all good points, Tes.  eg do we even have a legal team........do we have PR guidance (things were a lot more polished under Parry).

and no good chief exec to advise on contract clauses, etc.  For Kuyt to be able to leave for one million, is acrime against humanity.  Imagine if Shankly was around and had to deal with that moronic piece of club business.

agreed re asia.  A smart club looks at that market, with an eye on the big picture.  The potential future monies from asia are mind-boggling (so many people in a fast emerging market).



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 08, 2012, 05:41:26 PM
Quote
Rodgers says:  I didn't hear the reaction (during the Olympics) but top players get a bit of stick at every away ground.  But if there is a negative reaction towards a player it is normally because they are good.

We have seen it over time and players can become stronger for sure. Looking at the David Beckham scenario a number of years ago, they were burning effigies of him. Now he is king of the world.

That is how it can change. The most important thing is to recognise where you are at and then move forward.  Last year was difficult for him but this is a new beginning. The message from me will be concentrate on your football. Everything else will be a hindrance.

so on Monday, the man that loves microphones, drags the issue up once again.....and telling Suarez that he has to forget and move forward.

And on Wednesday, the gobsh.ite is still bringing the issue up and telling the player to move on.



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 08, 2012, 06:27:40 PM
So that's two too many times already this week. Why does any of it have to be said to the media.

A quiet word with Luis after training and no one else need know, and the sleeping dog is left alone.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 08, 2012, 06:30:27 PM
so on Monday, the man that loves microphones, drags the issue up once again.....and telling Suarez that he has to forget and move forward.

And on Wednesday, the gobsh.ite is still bringing the issue up and telling the player to move on.
It's b*llshit though because he's saying to the press what he should be saying to the player behind closed
doors. The Beckham analogy is just bonkers and beside the point. (Unless I'm mistaken he also never
defended Charlie Adam when Spurs were having a pop).

What I wanted to hear from the gaffer was something along the lines:

"I find it incredible that every time the name of Luis Suarez is mentioned this Evra question comes up. What people tend to
forget and what is never mentioned is what a fantastic footballer the lad is. To the best of my knowledge he served his
suspension in relation to the issue and as far as I'm concerned the matter is finished with and we here at Liverpool football
club have certainly moved on"


Stonewall journalists as soon as they start stirring for headlines and poking their noses at our players. Do it in a professional
media savvy way if you want (something Kenny failed to do) but make it clear to them where the boundaries are.

Anyway Luis signed a new contract (hip hip hooray, some good news at last  :) ) but I'm beginning to wonder if the gaffer will
find the manager's shirt at LFC a bit too heavy this coming season once difficult questions begin to be asked... :(

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 08, 2012, 06:45:41 PM
It's b*llshit though because he's saying to the press what he should be saying to the player behind closed
doors. The Beckham analogy is just bonkers and beside the point. (Unless I'm mistaken he also never
defended Charlie Adam when Spurs were having a pop).

What I wanted to hear from the gaffer was something along the lines:

"I find it incredible that every time the name of Luis Suarez is mentioned this Evra question comes up. What people tend to
forget and what is never mentioned is what a fantastic footballer the lad is. To the best of my knowledge he served his
suspension in relation to the issue and as far as I'm concerned the matter is finished with and we here at Liverpool football
club have certainly moved on"


Stonewall journalists as soon as they start stirring for headlines and poking their noses at our players. Do it in a professional
media savvy way if you want (something Kenny failed to do) but make it clear to them where the boundaries are.

Eggszackerly. He just can't help himself can he?

 Rodgers on Agger: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1130472?cc=5739# (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1130472?cc=5739#)

Anfield manager Brendan Rodgers said: "Daniel's a top player, and any manager will tell you that they don't want to lose their best players. But I suppose we've seen it at every club - every player has a price.

"Daniel is not for sale. Next question, and no more questions about Agger. I've dealt with it fully."

At this rate I'm starting to warm to Dave Whelan.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 08, 2012, 07:17:08 PM
exactly, Tes and Ed.

this stuff should all be said behind closed doors.

Daniel is not for sale.  Next question.

And if they continue to raise the Suarez race issue, I would either end the interview each day they raise it, or give them a response that they cannot publish e.g. are you guys still hacking phones?

But Rodgers will be caught out when the season starts.  He has not got the talent.  And by Christmas, he will be well into using excuses, like this is a work-in-progress, judge me next season, etc.  He will always be looking to some future date.....in order to get a stay of execution.

The moron thinks he can pull the wool over fans' eyes, with his endless self-serving drivel.  He is stupid.  Many fans have caught him on even before he plays a truly competitive game.   
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 08, 2012, 07:31:14 PM
Somehow i get the feeling i'm going to be channelling Walter a lot this Season
in relation to Brendan "Donny" Rodgers  :D  ;D

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8X2Qp_6aA#t=0m39s
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 09, 2012, 12:52:39 AM
Which reminds and annoys me, I thought BR didn't discuss transfers and
there he is raising his skirt with Agger knickers on  :o

I don't remember (maybe he did) Kenny talking like this about ins and outs.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 09, 2012, 12:56:35 AM
rodgers does a lot for charity, but doesn't like to talk about it (much).

endless drivel from the great mouth.

he spouts a million words....all meaningless platitudes and self-serving drivel.......not worth a jot.   He is the new david oleary.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 09, 2012, 01:19:12 AM
I'd rather he was the type that talked a lot yet said nothing.

Unfortunately he talks too much and gives too much away. I appreciate that managers have more media obligations than in the 70s and 80s, but there are ways of filling those obligations without giving out information and without incorporating constant references to himself and his abilities.

If he wishes to be recognised as having the right approach and as a talented coach, then the best way is to show us. He will get far more respect from everyone if he lets his actions do the talking.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 09, 2012, 01:25:09 AM
If he wishes to be recognised as having the right approach and as a talented coach, then the best way is to show us. He will get far more respect from everyone if he lets his actions do the talking.

I know he likes letters.

so I think the fans should send him a letter, saying, SHUT THE FE.CK UP!!

not that motormouth will find it possible (by this stage) to shut it.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 09, 2012, 01:00:05 PM
Is he finally learning, and if so, I hope our owners are taking notes:

From: http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/266234/Liverpool-demand-more-and-more-from-Manchester-City/ (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/266234/Liverpool-demand-more-and-more-from-Manchester-City/)

Kop boss Brendan Rodgers may cash in on Agger to help finance his ­rebuilding plans at Anfield.
He said: “Yes, we have had contact [from City] but nowhere near the valuation of the player’s worth.
“You can only even consider something like that if it’s anywhere near going to benefit you.
“Of course you might lose a top player, but if it benefits you going forward, and you can take two or three steps forward, then you may have to consider it.
“We don’t want to sell him unless ­someone comes in with a ridiculous offer that makes you look at it.
“If you can’t benefit in one or two other areas from it, then there’s no way I’m ­going to lose one of my best players. ­
Daniel knows where I’m at, he knows where the club is at and doesn’t want to leave, which is great.”



We need to get the purchase of any replacement spot on though. It's no good selling Agger, then downgrading, just to have some spare cash left to strengthen another position.

Ideally we would buy a top class replacement then keep the remainder until we've seen whether Coates is up to the mark, Kelly can play centre half at this level and even if Wilson has any sort of future. If Kelly is up to it then we wouldn't need to spend on Carra's replacement, as we'd already have it.
I'd rather we made sure how we need to spend the cash, be it on another centre half or to go towards another position.
We can always look at the January window or even wait until next Summer. I'd rather we waited and got every aspect correct than spend it quickly and burden ourselves with yet another financial dead weight.
We have more than enough of them hamstringing our ability to bring in new players as it is.



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 09, 2012, 04:22:50 PM
Is he finally learning, and if so, I hope our owners are taking notes:
I'm not sure Tes. I watched this interview on the LFC website (free stuff, for once!)

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/video/press-conf/12174-brendan-s-pre-gomel-press-conf

Sure there are bits of it that tick along nicely but quite frankly the bit about Carroll is
completely bizarre. There's effusive praise for Luis (a world-class talent) at the start
and it finishes with Bellamy (only a good player). I don't like the public grading of players
(under Kenny all players were equal (equally fantastic  :) ) and rarely if ever was there
any kind of singling out of players

Anyway, while on the subject of Carroll but not speaking directly about him he rambles off
on a speech about players at the end of the transfer window needing to be 100% committed,
wanting to be at the club and not regretting any opportunities they might have had to go on loan.
Why is he saying that publicly? What purpose does it serve? Is Andy Carroll supposed to be at
home watching it or something?

He also seems to harp on all the time about how he's been speaking to the players...Whopee!, is
that as opposed to not speaking to them?

Tes, I'd like nothing better than to like the manager and agree with 90% of what they say. I just
find it difficult with this guy to relax, safe in the knowledge that the agenda is LFC and not BR. I
could listen to Martin O'Neill all day and never be anything other than satisfied that he was on the
case in terms of being the manager of whatever football club he's with.

It's funny because in the interview, BR, does his usual bit about hard work, which as always is an
obligation but not enough. Strange because hard work (or giving his life in Brendan speak) is all
he's ever promised?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 09, 2012, 09:11:40 PM
I'd like nothing better than to like the manager and agree with 90% of what they say. I just
find it difficult with this guy to relax, safe in the knowledge that the agenda is LFC and not BR. I
could listen to Martin O'Neill all day and never be anything other than satisfied that he was on the
case in terms of being the manager of whatever football club he's with.

the reason we don't warm to him, Ed, is that he comes as across as a David Brent type    i.e. in organisations, a middle-line manager that has been promoted above his station/abilities......most likely promoted because of bis bu.ll.sh.i.tting abilities.

like you, I could listen to martin oneill all day.  He is exceptionally intelligent and one can learn something from him.....and he is also modest and not up his own ar.se

people cannot warm to rodgers......and when the media turn on him, he will find that he has very few friends to ride shotgun for him.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 09, 2012, 10:27:26 PM
the reason we don't warm to him, Ed, is that he comes as across as a David Brent type   
LOL, spot on dude! (I've been grasping for that analogy for weeks  :) ). I fear we're on our own on this one
though, the media lap it up. We'll see though, the top level in football is a very unforgiving place.

It's strange to me why he should have subbed Carra on tonight at the expense of giving Carroll a much needed
run out. My conclusion is that his mind was made up about Andy before he got the job and his 'conversation' with
him was along the lines "If you stay, you'll be on the bench for most of the season". Fair enough, he's the gaffer
and is paid to make these decisons but it flies in the face of what he said in the interview about sentiment and smacks
of him basking in the reflected glory of a club icon (sorry, i couldn't bring myself to write legend for Carra, i don't
even think icon is the right word). I'd also make the point (on my own here!) that Andy Carroll is the epitome, imo, of
his catchphrase from earlier in preseason of "ruthless simplicity".
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 09, 2012, 10:34:19 PM
Carra on not Coates. When are we going to start assessing whether Coates can be seen as a solution or a problem?

How many more appearances does he need to beat Cally? Can we just get it out of the way.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 09, 2012, 11:22:29 PM
Carra on not Coates. When are we going to start assessing whether Coates can be seen as a solution or a problem?

How many more appearances does he need to beat Cally? Can we just get it out of the way.
;)

I said it last year, but by not using coates, I fear that our people think he is not up to scratch.

if ye cannae use coates tonight, in a straightforward game against modest opposition, in which we are bossing the game, then when can you give the lad an opportunity.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 09, 2012, 11:29:10 PM
LOL, spot on dude! (I've been grasping for that analogy for weeks  :) ). I fear we're on our own on this one
though, the media lap it up. We'll see though, the top level in football is a very unforgiving place.

It's strange to me why he should have subbed Carra on tonight at the expense of giving Carroll a much needed
run out. My conclusion is that his mind was made up about Andy before he got the job and his 'conversation' with
him was along the lines "If you stay, you'll be on the bench for most of the season". Fair enough, he's the gaffer
and is paid to make these decisons but it flies in the face of what he said in the interview about sentiment and smacks
of him basking in the reflected glory of a club icon (sorry, i couldn't bring myself to write legend for Carra, i don't
even think icon is the right word). I'd also make the point (on my own here!) that Andy Carroll is the epitome, imo, of
his catchphrase from earlier in preseason of "ruthless simplicity".

it's early days, but I get the clear vibe that rodgers is a big political animal.  He will be going out of his way, to keep Marvel and Hoofer onside.  And I would not be surprised, if he gives Hoofer a coaching job at the club next year.     That would follow on from what I have seen, so far, of how he operates.

Re carroll, he obviously cannot find a buyer for Carroll....thus he has had to backtrack.  But he still refuses to give him a game.  Like me, he doesn't rate the lad. 

but it is interesting re Agger.  Are we seeing the first cracks, where our players do not want agger to be forced out, and are making that known to manager and owners.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 09, 2012, 11:48:03 PM
it's early days, but I get the clear vibe that rodgers is a big political animal.  He will be going out of his way, to keep Marvel and Hoofer onside.  And I would not be surprised, if he gives Hoofer a coaching job at the club next year.     That would follow on from what I have seen, so far, of how he operates.

Re carroll, he obviously cannot find a buyer for Carroll....thus he has had to backtrack.  But he still refuses to give him a game.  Like me, he doesn't rate the lad. 

but it is interesting re Agger.  Are we seeing the first cracks, where our players do not want agger to be forced out, and are making that known to manager and owners.

Mutiny on the good ship Jolly Rodgers.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 10, 2012, 12:00:44 AM
Mutiny on the good ship Jolly Rodgers.

 :D

wish I;d thought of that one!

I love such wordplay.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 10, 2012, 12:31:32 AM
Re carroll, he obviously cannot find a buyer for Carroll....thus he has had to backtrack.  But he still refuses to give him a game.  Like me, he doesn't rate the lad. 
I like Andy 'cos he's got character  :)

Mutiny on the good ship Jolly Rodgers.
Beats St. brendans voyage!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan#The_Voyage_of_Saint_Brendan

Crazy stuff!  ;D

"Saint Barrid tells of his visit to the Island of Paradise, which prompts Brendan to go in search of the isle."

The isle must be the Title, methinks!

"Brendan assembles 14 monks to accompany him."

They don't say how much he spent!

"Three latecomers join the group. They interfere with Brendan's sacred numbers."
hmmm..., Borini, Allen and Dempsey

"A bird prophesies that the men must continue this year-long cycle for seven years before they will be holy enough to reach the Island of Paradise."

Knew it would take forever!

"A sea creature approaches the boat, but God shifts the sea to protect the men."
Fowler comes back to make a cameo appearance against Utd.

"They pass a "silver pillar wrapped in a net" in the sea."

Some kind of metaphor for hitting the post and scoring

"They find a volcano, and the third latecomer is taken by demons down to Hell."
Knew Dempsey wouldn't work out.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 10, 2012, 10:17:58 AM
I like Andy 'cos he's got character  :)
Beats St. brendans voyage!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan#The_Voyage_of_Saint_Brendan

Crazy stuff!  ;D

"Saint Barrid tells of his visit to the Island of Paradise, which prompts Brendan to go in search of the isle."

The isle must be the Title, methinks!

"Brendan assembles 14 monks to accompany him."

They don't say how much he spent!


How many did he get from in a monastery in Swansea?


"Three latecomers join the group. They interfere with Brendan's sacred numbers."
hmmm..., Borini, Allen and Dempsey

"A bird prophesies that the men must continue this year-long cycle for seven years before they will be holy enough to reach the Island of Paradise."

Knew it would take forever!


Thankfully theirs no mention of 'five year plans'. I predict he will leave at that point when the seven year itch kicks in and he can no longer resist Barca's constant flirting with him.



"A sea creature approaches the boat, but God shifts the sea to protect the men."
Fowler comes back to make a cameo appearance against Utd.

It's the first time the FA have ever stood up to Taggart.



"They pass a "silver pillar wrapped in a net" in the sea."[/i]
Some kind of metaphor for hitting the post and scoring

"They find a volcano, and the third latecomer is taken by demons down to Hell."
Knew Dempsey wouldn't work out.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 10, 2012, 08:13:57 PM
I like Andy 'cos he's got character  :)

so had Fred West (and Malcolm Macdonald) 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 10, 2012, 10:42:19 PM
so had Fred West (and Malcolm Macdonald) 
Aye, but back in the FA cup final was a performance so bereft of character that
it makes me wonder how we'll ever reach the summit again with such a timid bunch.
Mr. Carroll came on and made that Chelsea team look very brittle, something no
other team in Europe managed last season.

Of course it's up to Rodgers what he decides to do with him. Opinions differ, I think we
need a physical edge to compete with the moneybags at the top of the league and
the defensive ones at the bottom. Pass, pass, pass only gets you so far (as we know
with Arsenal). Anyway, i don't have a problem with Andy being at the club but obviously
if he is to stay he needs to start banging them in and terrorising defences. Tbh, i think
the Toon will be back in for him before the end of the window.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 10, 2012, 10:49:48 PM
Aye, but back in the FA cup final was a performance so bereft of character that
it makes me wonder how we'll ever reach the summit again with such a timid bunch.
Mr. Carroll came on and made that Chelsea team look very brittle, something no
other team in Europe managed last season.

Of course it's up to Rodgers what he decides to do with him. Opinions differ, I think we
need a physical edge to compete with the moneybags at the top of the league and
the defensive ones at the bottom. Pass, pass, pass only gets you so far (as we know
with Arsenal). Anyway, i don't have a problem with Andy being at the club but obviously
if he is to stay he needs to start banging them in and terrorising defences. Tbh, i think
the Toon will be back in for him before the end of the window.

Problem is everything starts and finishes with 'that' transfer fee. £10M and everyone says useful Plan B or he'll play in certain games when a more robust approach would be needed.

He needs to play as a first choice starter or we get what we can for him. £15M/£18M wouldn't be a bad fee to get for him ordinarily, it's just when 'they' paid £35M it just seems like such a massive loss. £35M - I still can't get my head around that.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2012, 03:01:32 PM
Sterling and Coates given a start against Leverkusen. Nice to see from Rodgers.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2012, 03:06:11 PM
Sterling scores a truly amazing goal. This kid has to be in the first team squad this season. No ifs, buts or excuses.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2012, 03:09:32 PM
Free header from a free kick. Where was Carra?

Our movement in support of the man with the ball needs to be quicker and sharper.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2012, 03:30:00 PM
Shelvey's showing confidence with his passing. Nice to see a young lad have some self confidence. Henderson would do well to learn from him.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2012, 03:37:28 PM
Too many players are still trying to run too much with the ball rather than letting the ball do the work and moving it quickly.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2012, 03:42:11 PM
Nice to see Rodgers using Gerrard off Suarez rather than the deeper traditional central midfield position Dalglish had him in. He doesn't have the discipline or the fitness/freedom from injury required to play that deep, neither do we want him chasing around all over the pitch, or having to get up and down the pitch centrally all match.

Also playing that far up the pitch there isn't the space or distance to try 'Hollywood' passes and hopefully Rodgers finally gets it into Gerrard's head that we need to keep the ball moving but also keep possession, so more simple, but effective passes are the order of the day. Economical, efficient and accurate passing is what is required of all players, with no exception.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2012, 03:49:34 PM
Still giving them too much space with too many players standing watching the ball rather than being aware of opponents nearby and closing down both the player and space.

They need to learn movement when we have the ball and movement to close down and awareness of opponents when we don't. Hopefully it won't take all season for that to happen.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 12, 2012, 05:14:22 PM
nice to see Big Sami again.  One of our finest.  I wish he was being employed as a coach at Anfield - rather than a Carra type.   Though I guess Sami is too good (and too ambitious) than to take a backroom role.

good result.  We were more impressive in the first half, than the second.

better opposition would have hurt us more, and taken advantage of our mistakes.

we will start to get a far better picture, when we fall behind in games, especially when away from home.

to date, I only see one style of football. 

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2012, 08:58:49 PM
to date, I only see one style of football.

That's what worries me also, Dude. If we had the requisite amount of pace throughout the team we could play counter attack away from home, as most teams are expected to go forward at home.

Defensively we gave them too much space today with too many ball watching and not aware of the opposition's movement around them. As you say better finishing and it would have been  different game, still a big improvement from Gomel away.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 12, 2012, 11:36:58 PM
That's what worries me also, Dude. If we had the requisite amount of pace throughout the team we could play counter attack away from home, as most teams are expected to go forward at home.

Defensively we gave them too much space today with too many ball watching and not aware of the opposition's movement around them. As you say better finishing and it would have been  different game, still a big improvement from Gomel away.

yes, against decent opposition, we would have struggled to win today.

if it was so simple, every manager would play tic-tac football.  But to play such football, you need the most highly technical players in the country......and we do not have such players to call upon.

my suspicion is that Rodgers will flounder badly when the season starts.  These games sorta remind me of Dalglish's carefree style.......half-baked, with no ability to react and change things.   

everyone likes positive football, but this game is all about balance (between offence and defence) and ability to read the game and react. 

I have major worries.  Hope that I am wrong.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 12, 2012, 11:52:29 PM
In Dalglish's caretaker spell we played decent football going forward but conceeded a bit too easily at times.

It would be better if Rodgers built on that foundation, tightening up the defence and getting us pressing like Rafa had us doing in his first three years. Once that has been perfected he can tweak again if neccessary, but the foundations were there, he needs to pick up where Dalglish (for some reason) left off at the end 2010/2011.

I wonder what Rodgers' thinking is with Pacheco. I thought he showed promise on the North American tour, yet it seems like him and Suso haven't had a look in since. Suso, maybe due to his age, but Pacheco needs to be utilised as he's the sort of player that grew up in Spain with Rodgers' favoured methods.

If not then we need to get rid. We hold on to too many players who either offer nothing or don't get a chance to offer anything.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 13, 2012, 12:13:38 AM
From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9471211/Liverpools-wish-to-play-Joe-Allen-in-friendly-against-Bayer-Leverkusen-is-blocked-by-Swansea-City.html# (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9471211/Liverpools-wish-to-play-Joe-Allen-in-friendly-against-Bayer-Leverkusen-is-blocked-by-Swansea-City.html#)

“I have a lot to prove here,” he said. “I’m the sure that the majority of supporters are still not sure about me but I will fight for my right to be here.”

That's more like it. A bit of reality and humility. Understand that concerns are valid and realise you have to earn the respect and confidence of the fanbase.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 13, 2012, 12:16:21 AM
yes, either give them the opportunity, or move them on.  We have too many players who flounder in the background.

I agree, re building your team from the backwards forwards.  That is the way that all top managers do it.  You set your foundations and then, when they are established, you tweak midfield and forwards. 

the german goal today seemed to be due to carra's slowness to react.

I have no idea why carra is in the team in 2012.  I would have moved him on in 2010 or even a year earlier.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 13, 2012, 12:19:23 AM
yes, that is more like it.

I imagine someone like him, reads the forums and letter sections in newspapers.

I succinctly posted in two of the big newspapers this week (Telegraph and the Independent) that - "I wish he should shut his big fat mouth."

I was sorta hoping he would read the comments and take appropriate action.   8)


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 13, 2012, 04:57:03 PM
I imagine someone like him, reads the forums and letter sections in newspapers.


There won't be many cuttings for his scrap book yet, but if he lets his actions and our results do the talking and focuses his mind only on the job in hand whilst keeping the club's business in house until an announcement is appropriate then maybe things will go to plan. Other clubs' players are for their managers to talk about and non of our players are ever for sale.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 14, 2012, 01:50:27 PM
agreed, but when one loves mircrophones, keeping one's gub shut is near an impossibility.

to be honest, I think the lad is way out of his depth. 

hope I am wrong!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 14, 2012, 01:54:00 PM
agreed, but when one loves mircrophones, keeping one's gub shut is near an impossibility.

to be honest, I think the lad is way out of his depth. 

hope I am wrong!

Maybe it's just my cynicism but I always wonder what those who talk a lot are trying to hide or deflect attention away from with all their words.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 14, 2012, 01:58:00 PM
Maybe it's just my cynicism but I always wonder what those who talk a lot are trying to hide or deflect attention away from with all their words.

yes, that is my take on it too.

and, after my experiences in meetings and such places, across the years, I can spot a bullsh-itter a mile away.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 15, 2012, 12:13:25 AM
"It is about quality. I had a team last year that was worth about £17 million – and we were the talk of Europe. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9475994/Brendan-Rodgers-promises-prudence-at-Liverpool.html

Ahem, maybe...Rafa Benitez won the Champions League with us, got us to another final and had us
number 1 in Europe. Fact.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2012, 01:53:44 PM
"It is about quality. I had a team last year that was worth about £17 million – and we were the talk of Europe. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9475994/Brendan-Rodgers-promises-prudence-at-Liverpool.html

Ahem, maybe...Rafa Benitez won the Champions League with us, got us to another final and had us
number 1 in Europe. Fact.

Another 'fact' about 'me' that the world didn't need to know. His average count for self agrandising comments is down on last week's number, so hopefully it will continue that way, reaching a dribble and then finally ceasing altogether. He needs to stop trying to justify his appointment and just get on and 'prove' it was the right one, though he's moving in the right direction slowly, so I'm grateful for that.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 15, 2012, 02:05:03 PM
yes, Ed, I noticed 3 or 4 self-serving comments in that interview.

he's david oleary mk2........very hard to listen to.   

can you imagine, if he actually wins a few games, he will be impossible to listen to.

swansea's actions last weekend, told you all you need to know......they showed class.....with no outbursts from their owner or manager in the media, despite losing allen.....but a very definite and clear refusal to allow allen to play in our friendly with leverkusen on Sunday.

he's similar to david brent.....but when I think of the above incident with swansea, I also see some similarities with alan partridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-v0f2k8hQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-v0f2k8hQ)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2012, 03:43:27 PM
yes, Ed, I noticed 3 or 4 self-serving comments in that interview.

he's david oleary mk2........very hard to listen to.   

can you imagine, if he actually wins a few games, he will be impossible to listen to.

swansea's actions last weekend, told you all you need to know......they showed class.....with no outbursts from their owner or manager in the media, despite losing allen.....but a very definite and clear refusal to allow allen to play in our friendly with leverkusen on Sunday.

he's similar to david brent.....but when I think of the above incident with swansea, I also see some similarities with alan partridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-v0f2k8hQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-v0f2k8hQ)

Exactly. Swansea kept their decision quiet, kept it just between the two clubs and I saw no mention of it in the media from any of their representatives.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 15, 2012, 04:51:17 PM
yes, Ed, I noticed 3 or 4 self-serving comments in that interview.

he's david oleary mk2........very hard to listen to.   

can you imagine, if he actually wins a few games, he will be impossible to listen to.

swansea's actions last weekend, told you all you need to know......they showed class.....with no outbursts from their owner or manager in the media, despite losing allen.....but a very definite and clear refusal to allow allen to play in our friendly with leverkusen on Sunday.

he's similar to david brent.....but when I think of the above incident with swansea, I also see some similarities with alan partridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-v0f2k8hQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-v0f2k8hQ)

It's effin' ridiculous the nonsense he's spouting about the Championship & snobbery.
We need to invest in terms of our scouting network and partnerships with feeder clubs.
The academy also has to be developing talent from a very early age. By all means get
value in terms of recruitment but it needs to be done in a professional and world-class manner.

It was funny someone commenting on that article noted that despite having a team worth £17 million
at Swansea, he blew £15million on Joe Allen, only one member of it. I suppose i'm wondering why he
couldn't have signed the next Joe Allen (whatever that means  :) ) if he was going to make a speech
about it.

As I've said all along, I'll listen when he delivers 4th, in the meantime i'd prefer to hear nothing. LFC,
talking on the pitch, game at a time, focused on the next 3 points and add them up at the end of the
season. Occasionally, if the gaffer feels that he has something important to impart to the fan-base, then
by all means make the point BUT this whole "it's going to take years, btw have i told you how fantastic i am"
is just embarrassing and doesn't do anything for me.

but when I think of the above incident with swansea, I also see some similarities with alan partridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-v0f2k8hQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-v0f2k8hQ)

Ouch!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 15, 2012, 05:45:59 PM
I note Martin's friends over at the Tomkins Times are in very optimistic
mood about BR:

http://tomkinstimes.com/2012/08/brendan-rodgers-from-the-tawe-to-the-mersey/
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2012, 06:30:46 PM
It was funny someone commenting on that article noted that despite having a team worth £17 million
at Swansea, he blew £15million on Joe Allen, only one member of it. I suppose i'm wondering why he
couldn't have signed the next Joe Allen (whatever that means  :) ) if he was going to make a speech
about it.

When I read that about the £17M etc, I thought the same thing. I know he was trying to big himself up by showing the team had been put together for peanuts but could still perform 'above their value' and maybe he was trying to be clever and show how he'd enhance their transfer value with the performance in the PL, but the bare facts just made terrible reading for both us a club and him as the manager who chose to spend the money.

He's made his own case for saying far less than we ever could.

I agree with you Ed, in that I'd rather we unearthed the next Joe Allen and saved ourselves 90% of that transfer fee.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2012, 10:23:54 PM
PSG boss Carlo Ancelotti says Liverpool fans are the best

Ex-Chelsea manager Carlo Ancelotti has praised Liverpool supporters for being the best fans he’s encountered.

In an interview with CNN World Sport, the PSG boss revealed he is moved by Anfield’s rendition of You’ll Never Walk Alone… even if he isn’t quite sure what they’re singing.

Asked which club he thinks have the best fans, Ancelotti said: “In my opinion Liverpool fans, when they sing a song they… I don’t know in English, but your skin is…”

Ancelotti goes on to confirm that it makes his hair stand up.


http://www.offthepost.info/blog/2012/08/psg-boss-carlo-ancelotti-says-liverpool-fans-are-the-best/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+offthepost%2FTLAa+%28Off+The+Post%29 (http://www.offthepost.info/blog/2012/08/psg-boss-carlo-ancelotti-says-liverpool-fans-are-the-best/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+offthepost%2FTLAa+%28Off+The+Post%29)

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 15, 2012, 11:09:54 PM
PSG boss Carlo Ancelotti says Liverpool fans are the best

Ex-Chelsea manager Carlo Ancelotti has praised Liverpool supporters for being the best fans he’s encountered.

In an interview with CNN World Sport, the PSG boss revealed he is moved by Anfield’s rendition of You’ll Never Walk Alone… even if he isn’t quite sure what they’re singing.

Asked which club he thinks have the best fans, Ancelotti said: “In my opinion Liverpool fans, when they sing a song they… I don’t know in English, but your skin is…”

Ancelotti goes on to confirm that it makes his hair stand up.


if they were not gonna re=appoint Rafa, Ancelotti was the one to go for.

I think he would have been an ideal manager for Liverpool.  He and the Kop would have fallen in love with each other.

Instead, our melons went for the young gobsh.ite.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2012, 11:18:26 PM
if they were not gonna re=appoint Rafa, Ancelotti was the one to go for.

I think he would have been an ideal manager for Liverpool.  He and the Kop would have fallen in love with each other.

Instead, our melons went for the young gobsh.ite.

They only had to be patient and wait for the inevitable last Summer. Their lack of football knowledge and the lack of it on the board didn't allow them to see that comrade Abramovich would be true to character.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 15, 2012, 11:27:19 PM
yes, we have crappy below-standard owners, a crappy below-standard chief exec, and a crappy below-standard  manager.

that cocktail of arrogance, inexperience and lack of skill, can only hurt the club and take it downwards.




Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2012, 11:56:19 PM
yes, we have crappy below-standard owners, a crappy below-standard chief exec, and a crappy below-standard  manager.

that cocktail of arrogance, inexperience and lack of skill, can only hurt the club and take it downwards.

And if somehow they use their undoubted business acumen, they are still going to make the journey much tougher than it should be until they appoint the staff and board with the required skill set and knowledge. The business gains will continue to be undermined by the football losses while critical appointments in pivotal positions remain unmade.

It's the most frustrating part of their ownership. There is so much more to football at this level than the mere match itself, but as they're so inexperienced in every aspect of it and don't understand how an intercontinental setup (in any walk of life) works and the added complexities it brings, they need to bring in that expertise that they lack. Yet for some reason they seem reluctant to do it.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on August 16, 2012, 12:49:47 AM
yes, we have crappy below-standard owners, a crappy below-standard chief exec, and a crappy below-standard  manager.

that cocktail of arrogance, inexperience and lack of skill, can only hurt the club and take it downwards.

Im waiting for Martin to explode on here in a fury one of these days Dude.

You and he are shaping up to have a fractious season over our man Brendan.  ;D

Now that he is our manager he deserves his chance though.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 16, 2012, 01:15:36 AM
It's the most frustrating part of their ownership. There is so much more to football at this level than the mere match itself, but as they're so inexperienced in every aspect of it and don't understand how an intercontinental setup (in any walk of life) works and the added complexities it brings, they need to bring in that expertise that they lack. Yet for some reason they seem reluctant to do it.

their arrogance and treatment of Liverpool, as a mere overseas pet-project, is hard to stomach.

they have fig-leaf all knowledge of football, and yet refuse to recognise or accept this (and act accordingly).

but when the wheels come off their latest project (david brent), I suspect they are in for a rude awakening from our fanbase.  The first murmurs, at anfield, could come as soon as Christmas......and be deafening by April.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 16, 2012, 01:17:53 AM
Im waiting for Martin to explode on here in a fury one of these days Dude.

You and he are shaping up to have a fractious season over our man Brendan.  ;D

Now that he is our manager he deserves his chance though.

as Albert Pierrepoint might have said, he will have my full support.   ;)

yes, martin has been very absent.  I think it is going to be an interesting season (to put it mildly).


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 16, 2012, 01:25:58 AM
their arrogance and treatment of Liverpool, as a mere overseas pet-project, is hard to stomach.

they have fig-leaf all knowledge of football, and yet refuse to recognise or accept this (and act accordingly).

but when the wheels come off their latest project (david brent), I suspect they are in for a rude awakening from our fanbase.  The first murmurs, at anfield, could come as soon as Christmas......and be deafening by April.
They're getting in with their excuses early:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2188910/Liverpool-way-pace-thanks-Tom-Hicks-George-Gillett-says-John-W-Henry.html#ixzz23ejklB5v

yes, martin has been very absent.
I hear he's still in preseason training for the upcoming matches on this forum  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 16, 2012, 01:55:46 PM
The thing is Henry isn't that wrong with what he says. Twenty years of mismanagement. If they had bought us off Moores the task would be less hard than it is now.

We all know that we've spent poorly in the transfer market, moreso recently, and have always been one of the highest payers in terms of wages, especially under Moores (due to the longevity of his reign and the cumulative effect and the way that set the precedent for those that followed), yet that investment has not yielded a return relative to what was paid out.

The Toxics along with Purslow also handed out some ridiculous contracts and whilst we've got to get ourselves back in shape, clearing out the squad and bringing the wage bill inline with our income, the likes of City and Chelsea carry on spending and the Mancs can reap the rewards of capitalising on the commercial revenue that the formation of the Premier League offered, if people had had the vision to take advantage. They did, we didn't.

None of us are happy about the issues and we know them well and pointed out a lot of the potential errors that were going to be made in the transfer market before they were made.  Another frustrating issue.

Whilst on the business side they are improving things, on the football side they continue to do the job with one hand tied behind their back, but they have the power to release that arm, but for some reason choose not to.

They admit that their knowledge of football is grossly lacking at the side of their baseball knowledge, which as lifelong fans and intelligent people, is probably on a par with the knowledge of football we collectively display on this forum.
To make matters worse, they reside close to the sporting institution they know and understand reinforcing the advantage that club has. They are not resident over here and as they live in a barren landscape in terms of football, they are not giving themselves any chance of educating themselves and acquiring the knowledge they need.
Now, that's their choice, but if they're not going to make the personal changes neccessary, then they have to put in place a group of people to run the club in it's entirety, both business and football, whilst of course they can take an interest and active involvement in the business, which I'm sure they do with the Redsox, they still need to be led by a board savvy in the particular business characteristics of football, whilst placing total faith in a football board and allowing it freedom to operate.

Bayern Munich have both a business board and a football board, running side by side and in conjunction with eachother. That would be a sensible system for us to adopt so that the relevant business knowledge of Henry and Werner can be harnessed but shaped to a way best suited to a business based on and competing in the European football marketplace. In addition, a football board would shape all football related activity and work in conjunction with the 'business board' where football and business overlap.

They need to provide themselves with these tools in order to make up for both past errors and deficiencies and their current lack of both footballing knowledge in a sporting sense and football business knowledge, both of which they obviously have in relation to baseball.

It's worrying when they started talking about FFP in the PL to go alongside UEFA's plans, as it still shows incredible naivity towards the political and business side of football. Surely the lack of action in response to City's deal with Etihad and Chelsea's spending continuing unabated despite constant huge annual loses under Abramovich, would get them questioning the reality in practice of FFP.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 18, 2012, 06:42:35 PM
I wonder if it says anything in Rodgers' 180 page journal about the sort of day we've had today and how you avoid it ever happening again.

If not, I can see it reach more than 200 pages as he keeps making additions during the season.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 18, 2012, 09:32:45 PM
Dude, have you seen this interview with our manager about his football philosophy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiG8E-iflsI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiG8E-iflsI)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 18, 2012, 11:49:19 PM
Dude, have you seen this interview with our manager about his football philosophy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiG8E-iflsI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiG8E-iflsI)

 :D :D :D :D :D

great find!

I have been meaning to find the time, to photoshop david brent into a picture of rodgers.  Half merged, so as to see the similarities.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 18, 2012, 11:50:35 PM
I wonder if it says anything in Rodgers' 180 page journal about the sort of day we've had today and how you avoid it ever happening again.

If not, I can see it reach more than 200 pages as he keeps making additions during the season.

when 3-0 up, I was waiting for the WBA fans to start chanting "Bring on Barcelona!"
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 19, 2012, 01:04:40 PM
A very interesting comparison between the old and the new Swansea managers:

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/if-carlsberg-did-managers-laudrup-shows-rodgers-tiki-taka-2-0/ (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/if-carlsberg-did-managers-laudrup-shows-rodgers-tiki-taka-2-0/)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 19, 2012, 01:09:43 PM
A very interesting comparison between the old and the new Swansea managers:

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/if-carlsberg-did-managers-laudrup-shows-rodgers-tiki-taka-2-0/ (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/if-carlsberg-did-managers-laudrup-shows-rodgers-tiki-taka-2-0/)

I actually suspect that Swansea have got the better deal, out of this summer;s managerial merry-go-round.

I do not think Rodgers will be missed by the people at Swansea.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 19, 2012, 09:48:04 PM
Crikey, they're a bitter bunch down in Wales (makes for amusing
reading all the same, difficult to sort truth out of all the swaggering
after their demolition of QPR, but it would appear some of their fans
have issues with BR)

http://forum.planetswans.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=126314
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 19, 2012, 09:54:02 PM
I have been meaning to find the time, to photoshop david brent into a picture of rodgers.  Half merged, so as to see the similarities.
Ironic that his media soundbite yesterday was "bad day at The Office".

I think we have to be careful that the whole thing doesn't start snowballing for him
i.e. I'm wary of the number of journalists out there who have no regard for the best
interests of LFC and would have no qualms about derailing our season before it even
starts.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 19, 2012, 10:09:18 PM
I think we have to be careful that the whole thing doesn't start snowballing for him

That's a really good point, Ed.  Damn, why does football have to provoke so many intense emotions, and hence reactions caused by those emotions.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 20, 2012, 12:14:53 AM
That's a really good point, Ed.
Imo, it makes absolutely no difference anyway 'cos there's no turning back from the
decision making that was made by the owners during the Summer. None.

What's really, really annoying is that a) There's no experienced DoF on hand to provide
a backbone to the footballing operations (instil a measure of confidence in the fanbase)
b) Proper chairman with credibility to issue statements to the media on club matters.

We have a tough few games coming up and it would be nice to just sit back and see how
things are shaping up without the media poking its nose in.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 20, 2012, 12:39:27 PM
Imo, it makes absolutely no difference anyway 'cos there's no turning back from the
decision making that was made by the owners during the Summer. None.

What's really, really annoying is that a) There's no experienced DoF on hand to provide
a backbone to the footballing operations (instil a measure of confidence in the fanbase)
b) Proper chairman with credibility to issue statements to the media on club matters.

We have a tough few games coming up and it would be nice to just sit back and see how
things are shaping up without the media poking its nose in.

Backbone is a good word to use. The owners and Ayre both came out with the DoF set up and then instead of that a 3 man technical team, which it appears Segura was promised the position of technical director.
Strange how the three man team was announced by Ayre after Rodgers had been offered ther job (I'm sure that's the timeline, but I'll try and find some clarification), but even that appears to have gone by the wayside, and you can only assume that this is Rodgers' wishes.

So onto the word 'backbone'. It would appear our owners lack any. Whilst I can understand being 'flexible', if their desired setup was a DoF, or a technical team, both to assist the manager (probably) and/or provide continuity and stability when a new man comes in, then they should have stuck to their guns and any managerial/coaching appointment was made on the condition that the new man accepted and fitted into the system.

If they are looking to use a system similar to Barca's and many other teams on mainland Europe, then they should remain firm on that issue.
There's a lot to be said for it as the whole academy and reserve setup remains constant and unchanged despite a new manager/coach coming in and the coach/manager is appointed to coach a style of football that is and has been mirror throughout all the different age groups below the first team.
It's no good having all the junior teams being coached to play a certain way, and then a new first team boss comes in with a different method of playing. It renders all the work that has been done with the junior teams as pointless and the players who probably would be knocking on the door of the first team are now unsuited to the new man's requirements.

There is also nothing wrong with having a technical team of sorts to assist and advise Rodgers, especially considering his lack of top level management experience.

Even the likes of Shankly and Paisley had a technical team as such, with the bootroom setup, which was designed to support and advise the manager, and Shankly was always adamant that everyone member of the bootroom contributed to discussions - Roy Evans' biography,  Ghost on the wall, paints quite a clear picture of this, and even Tom Saunders, who was primarily youth development officer (the first of it's kind in the country) was a member of the bootroom, even though he had no dealings with the first team, but it shows how the club at all levels were involved with Shankly's technical team.
Also, even though he retired in 1986, he was appointed to the board in 1993, again providing a 'football man' on the board, something as we've said too often, is a glaring ommission from today's board.

First to introduce shirt sponsorship, one of the first to have perimeter advertising, first to have a dedicated youth development officer overseeing the first version of 'the academy' as we know it.
We were always ahead of the curve, now it seems we're always trying to play catch up, but even though there are other clubs that have laid down a blueprint for what we are trying to 'catch up' we still struggle even to 'copy', nevermind actually pioneer anything anymore. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on August 20, 2012, 04:44:40 PM
Ironic that his media soundbite yesterday was "bad day at The Office".

I think we have to be careful that the whole thing doesn't start snowballing for him
i.e. I'm wary of the number of journalists out there who have no regard for the best
interests of LFC and would have no qualms about derailing our season before it even
starts.

Sections of the media love to watch us fail, id go as far as saying revel in it. Unfortunately we dont often help ourselves in the sense that we continually give them ammunition. Like our process for choosing a new manager left alot to be desired. On the other hand most of what was filtering to the press wasnt coming by way of official announcement from the club. But the press still crucified us. Yet Spurs had a similar multi candidate approach for employing a new manager but the press never brought their process into question once. The clubs become a laughing stock amongst the rest of the league in terms of its actual position and ability to compete amongst the top clubs.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Juan on August 20, 2012, 05:00:36 PM
He needs to button his lip again. He told us at the end of last week he hoped to have something done on Sahin in the next 24 hours. Then Wenger goes and calls Sahin personally and asks him to wait 48 hours.

What happened about not disclosing deals until they are done. We looked to have been trumped with a player again.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on August 20, 2012, 05:54:20 PM
Sections of the media love to watch us fail, id go as far as saying revel in it. Unfortunately we dont often help ourselves in the sense that we continually give them ammunition. Like our process for choosing a new manager left alot to be desired. On the other hand most of what was filtering to the press wasnt coming by way of official announcement from the club. But the press still crucified us. Yet Spurs had a similar multi candidate approach for employing a new manager but the press never brought their process into question once. The clubs become a laughing stock amongst the rest of the league in terms of its actual position and ability to compete amongst the top clubs.
Simply we lack credibility.

Maybe the game vs. West Brom was an aberration and things will get better. Stranger things have certainly happened
and it's a funny game.

I just think that were things to go pear-shaped with the team, there's no-one beyond the the manager with a
shred of footballing intelligence to step in and handle the situation. We're a sitting duck  :(
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 20, 2012, 07:04:40 PM
He needs to button his lip again. He told us at the end of last week he hoped to have something done on Sahin in the next 24 hours. Then Wenger goes and calls Sahin personally and asks him to wait 48 hours.

What happened about not disclosing deals until they are done. We looked to have been trumped with a player again.

Sahin always wanted Arsenal, afterall they've got CL football, and if the loan is turned permanent a higher possibility of having it on a regular basis. Mourinho and Real were pushing him to come here, as we wouldn't be an opponent in the CL.

Again, the should be no commenting on other team's players and just give the stock answer of 'we won't be saying anything until any transfer is completed and all the paperwork accepted'.  He did say something like that when asked about transfers after the WBA on the stream I was watching, but you wonder how much of that was down to the way he was feeling straight after a defeat.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on August 20, 2012, 09:20:24 PM
when Rafa was manager, I held my head up high and stuck my chest out.

I was super proud.  We were at the pinnacle of Europe, once again.     We had a wonderful balance.

Now, after a third successive duck in the dugout,  I am almost past caring.  I shake my head and throw my arms up in the air.  Where does one even begin, in fixing all the problems at the club.

Let's be quite clear.  Brendan Rodgers should never have been appointed.....not in a month of Sundays. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on August 30, 2012, 12:59:49 PM
Hopefully he's learning:

Liverpool boss refuses to discuss Fulham star

Thursday, August 30, 2012


Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has refused to comment on Fulham star Clint Dempsey.

The American has been linked with a move to Anfield, although the Whites are reluctant to deal with the Merseyside giants.

After declaring an interest last month, the former Swansea manager is now keeping quiet about his targets.

“There is nothing on any player. I will speak about a player after Friday if he is in the door.

“In these next 48 hours speculation and gossip will be rife. I could be here all day answering speculation. I have no need.”


http://www.london24.com/sport/fulham/liverpool_boss_refuses_to_discuss_fulham_star_1_1498971 (http://www.london24.com/sport/fulham/liverpool_boss_refuses_to_discuss_fulham_star_1_1498971)

Nicely done, Brendan.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on September 04, 2012, 01:29:40 PM
I have been meaning to find the time, to photoshop david brent into a picture of rodgers.  Half merged, so as to see the similarities.
LOL!

(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2012/9/3/1346675576431/The-Gallery-Brendan-Rodge-001.jpg)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on September 04, 2012, 08:22:44 PM
 :D

looks like a mafia don....planning revenge on his yankee masters.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on September 04, 2012, 09:35:57 PM
:D

looks like a mafia don....planning revenge on his yankee masters.

Someone on the Med wouldn't such a poor complexion, or is it the stress 'Working for the Yankee Dollar'.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on September 05, 2012, 02:30:01 AM
:D

looks like a mafia don....planning revenge on his yankee masters.
The plot thickens!  ;D

http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/virals/120904/video-bale-and-sigurdsson-shocked-andre-villas-brent-does-dance-180249
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on September 07, 2012, 02:03:01 AM
45 minute interview with Brendan Rodgers:

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/09/interview-brendan-rodgers-talks-to-taw/
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on September 07, 2012, 01:14:00 PM
45 minute interview with Brendan Rodgers:

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/09/interview-brendan-rodgers-talks-to-taw/

Video of the interview from Redmen TV.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyGdHRER9aU&feature=channel&list=UL

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jINu-ZucO8


Really brilliant to hear his views.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on September 07, 2012, 01:29:03 PM
we're sitting at the bottom of the league, and the gobsh.ite still spends his days in front of microphones.

what could he possibly educate us on.   The bloke has won a grand total of one Championship Play-Off Final win.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Gurdeep on September 07, 2012, 01:49:01 PM
Really brilliant to hear his views.

It's not views we want it's results!  If they gave trophies for talking we'd be untouchable. 

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on September 07, 2012, 04:14:57 PM
Video of the interview from Redmen TV.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyGdHRER9aU&feature=channel&list=UL

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jINu-ZucO8


Really brilliant to hear his views.
Cheers for posting the video, must have a look at it later, be interesting to see
how he explained playing Suarez to the right of a striker (false winger he called it)
& the midfield 1-2 vs 2-1 bit.

Note to Tes, apologies i didn't see that you'd already posted BRs i/v over in its rightful place!

For those who prefer to read it TAW provide a full transcript!

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/09/transcript-the-brendan-rodgers-interview/
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on September 07, 2012, 08:13:19 PM
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/2cmbd.jpg)

Another fine mess
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on September 08, 2012, 01:16:28 AM
Sometimes i wonder if a lot of the gaffer's philosophy is rooted in the
sort of stuff you'd find in your average self-help book. I don't find any of
what he says particularly original, which is a shame because originality
is one of the things i'd expect in a Liverpool manager.

Boy does he love himself though. I mean what other manager that's spent more time
in the Championship than Premiership has iconic pictures of themselves hanging up
at home??

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02332/rodgers1_2332799c.jpg)

& he never ever tires of self-promotion:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9529661/Liverpool-fly-on-the-wall-documentary-reveals-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-methods-and-philosophy.html

As I've said before on a number of occasions, the impression is that LFC is just a vehicle for BR
and his out of control ego.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on September 08, 2012, 01:59:43 AM
Sometimes i wonder if a lot of the gaffer's philosophy is rooted in the
sort of stuff you'd find in your average self-help book. I don't find any of
what he says particularly original, which is a shame because originality
is one of the things i'd expect in a Liverpool manager.

Boy does he love himself though. I mean what other manager that's spent more time
in the Championship than Premiership has iconic pictures of themselves hanging up
at home??

& he never ever tires of self-promotion:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9529661/Liverpool-fly-on-the-wall-documentary-reveals-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-methods-and-philosophy.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9529661/Liverpool-fly-on-the-wall-documentary-reveals-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-methods-and-philosophy.html)

As I've said before on a number of occasions, the impression is that LFC is just a vehicle for BR and his out of control ego.


you have nailed it, Ed.

Liverpool FC is but a mere vehicle for Brendan Rodgers.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on September 08, 2012, 02:27:24 AM
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/c88.0.403.403/p403x403/431026_10151166469166075_1677681774_n.jpg)

Some of Brendan Rodgers quotes from the documentary.

Now imagine this said in a David Brent accent.

Our manager talks about his footballing philosophy, telling the cameras he does not believe in “training” players, rather he hopes he is “educating” them. “You train dogs,” he says.  “Every player I see as my own son.   I want to do the very best for them. I want to be able to push them in their lives so they can do it for their children. We do everything in life for our kids. I don’t want to ever miss the chance of letting players understand that this is why we do it.”
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on September 08, 2012, 03:20:19 AM
“Every player I see as my own son.   I want to do the very best for them. I want to be able to push them in their lives so they can do it for their children. We do everything in life for our kids. I don’t want to ever miss the chance of letting players understand that this is why we do it.”
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  ;D  :'(

Depressing. I find it really difficult to support the club with such a b*llshitter at the helm.

There has to be a motivation for him saying those sentences and it's all about him and
nothing to do with us "look at me!, I'm so nice! and wise! and brilliant!" . His job is not
to be loved, it's first and foremost to win trophies for the club. I wonder if these are the
words of a person who understands that he has inherited the toughest job in football and
for the sake of the club's short term future has to succeed! Jesus wept...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on September 11, 2012, 10:29:38 PM
now in my ongoing series on The Inner Thoughts of Our Great leader,   repeat in your best ever David Brent impersonation,    "Player plus environment equals behaviour"
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on September 11, 2012, 10:32:27 PM
again, in your best ever David Brent voice:   

"I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I was born with a silver shovel"
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on September 29, 2012, 09:02:45 PM
Possibly the worst article ever written:

Former Azzurri boss among top suitors for Liverpool

Sep 29th, 2012  By Swarup Pokhrel


Liverpool are contemplating of replacing their current manager Brendan Rodgers and Marcello Lippi is rumored to be one of the top candidates, as reported by the Daily Mirror.

Although the Reds would prefer Roy Hodgson, he might be unavailable should he continue to take charge of the national team.

Alongside Lippi, former Internazionale coach Rafa Benitez is also listed among the top suitors.

Liverpool have had a dismal start to their season, picking only two point from their first five games.


http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2012/09/former-azzurri-boss-among-top-suitors-for-liverpool/ (http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2012/09/former-azzurri-boss-among-top-suitors-for-liverpool/)

See what I mean?  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on September 29, 2012, 09:06:02 PM
 :D :D :D :D :D

without knowing it was the Mirror, I would have made a very good guess and said the story was from the Sunday people.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on September 29, 2012, 09:27:27 PM
:D :D :D :D :D

without knowing it was the Mirror, I would have made a very good guess and said the story was from the Sunday people.

The story's from 'Forza' who mention the Mirror, yet I haven't been able to find the original story on the Mirror's website. It's like the worst of the Sunday Sport stories, and I can't understand why Forza have it on their website even though they've 'credited' the Mirror with it.

It's like the Mike Riley of journalism.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on September 29, 2012, 11:04:21 PM
Possibly the worst article ever written:

Or maybe this is:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2210566/Liverpools-diving-record-costing-decisions.html?openGraphAuthor=%2Fhome%2Fsearch.html%3Fs%3D%26authornamef%3DJoe%2BBernstein (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2210566/Liverpools-diving-record-costing-decisions.html?openGraphAuthor=%2Fhome%2Fsearch.html%3Fs%3D%26authornamef%3DJoe%2BBernstein)

Neither refs or Taggart have been known to get anything wrong since football first began in 1992 have they?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2012, 12:16:41 PM
An interesting article (apologies for the subject team):

http://thepeoplesperson.com/stubborn-tactics-are-dragging-manchester-united-downwards/ (http://thepeoplesperson.com/stubborn-tactics-are-dragging-manchester-united-downwards/)

The point applies to us though in that we can't just play 'one way', we have to be flexible and apply a tactic that suits the individual and variable passages of play during a game, not just a 'one size fits all' tactic. For example against Stoke, because of their defensive mindset (and especially if they are dealing comfortably with our attack), when they do attack, we have to have the tactical flexibility to counter attack at speed, either by quick distribution from Pepe or by moving the ball quickly and getting it forward quickly before Stoke have a chance to re-deploy their defensive structure and formation. If we just carry on building slowly from the back, especially if Stoke are getting more adventurous in terms of going forward because they are comfortably dealing with our attacks, we aren't taking advantage of the change in the game structure, and we are simply continuing to go round in circles doing the same thing that hasn't been working.
I appreciate that just because a slow possession based attacking style hasn't work 'so far' in the match, that it won't work at 'some point' but surely utilising more than one approach has to increase the chance of goal scoring success, or at worst help us keep a clean sheet by making Stoke more wary of coming forward if they could be caught on the counter attack. Hence the less they attack the more we are likely to have the ball, both increasing our chances of scoring and the chances of not conceding.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 18, 2012, 03:09:07 PM
I worked with Mourinho and Ancelotti... but Rodgers is the best, says Liverpool coach

18 October 2012


Brendan Rodgers has been hailed as a better manager than Jose Mourinho and Carlo Ancelotti by a man who has worked alongside all three.

Glen Driscoll, who is head of performance at Liverpool, was a coach at Stamford Bridge under the club's two most successful recent managers, and took up his new role at Anfield this season.

Both Mourinho and Ancelotti won the Premier League title at Chelsea, while also bringing with them Champions League-winning pedigree.

But Driscoll claims Rodgers uses the best of the pair while adding his own extra special ingredients to his management style.

'All the managers I’ve worked with have their own unique traits - but Brendan has the best mix,' he told the club website.

'I still have strong relationships with many of the managers I’ve worked with, and so I mean no disrespect, but Brendan definitely has a unique combination of all the best traits I’ve seen.

'Carlo Ancelotti was very humble and showed a lot of humility - I see that in Brendan. I also see the man-management style of Guus Hiddink and obviously the methodologies of Jose [Mourinho] in him. For me, I feel very privileged and lucky to now be working back with him.'

Reflecting on his time on Merseyside, the fourth occasion he has teamed up with Rodgers, Driscoll explained his pride at being part of a project that could take Liverpool 'above and beyond'.

He added: 'I’d sat in the opposition dugout here and been involved in some pretty amazing Champions League games at Anfield.

'To finally be sitting in the Liverpool dugout makes me very proud. It was obvious when I came here there is an aura at Liverpool and there is class here.

'The passion around the city and football club is something different. With no disrespect to Chelsea as I had a great time there, enjoyed some amazing moments and still have colleagues and friends there, it just feels the set-up here could really take Liverpool above and beyond.

'It is a privilege to be here and my only focus is to try and make sure we achieve success. I’m 100 per cent positive we will do that.'



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2219529/Brendan-Rodgers-better-Jose-Mourinho-Carlo-Ancelotti-says-Liverpool-coach.html?openGraphAuthor=%2Fhome%2Fsearch.html%3Fs%3D%26authornamef%3DSportsmail%2BReporter (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2219529/Brendan-Rodgers-better-Jose-Mourinho-Carlo-Ancelotti-says-Liverpool-coach.html?openGraphAuthor=%2Fhome%2Fsearch.html%3Fs%3D%26authornamef%3DSportsmail%2BReporter)

The club should ban junior coaches and members of staff from doing newspaper interviews and the players from having twitter accounts.

Let's get back to the only form of talking we do is on the pitch. With so many forms of media now, any sort of interview or quote soon gets picked up and in too many cases gets used to or can be used to ridicule us.

We're at a low point performance wise at the moment so we need to keep quiet and get our heads down and focus solely on improvement.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on October 18, 2012, 06:32:03 PM
I worked with Mourinho and Ancelotti... but Rodgers is the best, says Liverpool coach

'Carlo Ancelotti was very humble and showed a lot of humility - I see that in Brendan''


 :D :D :D :D :D

THAT is where I stopped reading and started laughing.

And I agree with your points Tes.  These folks (players and coaches) need to shut their mouths (re newspaper articles, quotes and twitter/facebook nonsense) and start to do their talking on the pitch.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2012, 09:57:40 PM
Another article I found interesting. I think it's balanced, raises some questions but doesn't overly criticise where the author's thoughts do not align with Rodgers':

http://www.footballfancast.com/premiership/liverpool/will-he-prove-the-architect-of-his-own-downfall-at-anfield (http://www.footballfancast.com/premiership/liverpool/will-he-prove-the-architect-of-his-own-downfall-at-anfield)

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2012, 10:09:50 PM
Another article I found interesting. I think it's balanced, raises some questions but doesn't overly criticise where the author's thoughts do not align with Rodgers':

http://www.footballfancast.com/premiership/liverpool/will-he-prove-the-architect-of-his-own-downfall-at-anfield (http://www.footballfancast.com/premiership/liverpool/will-he-prove-the-architect-of-his-own-downfall-at-anfield)

was reading that article earlier today.

it referred to a Mark Lawrenson article, s=which I had not seen, from earlier this month.

_______________________________________ ________________

(http://www.myfootballfacts.com/3602.jpg)

Mark Lawrenson column: Rodgers must be off his head to do this TV drivel

What on earth is Brendan Rodgers doing in this programme Being: Liverpool?

I have to say - I’m sorry - tawdry. A real error of judgment for him have agreed to appear in it. Why did he agree to it? He has come into a football club steeped in history and tradition. If you are a new manager in that situation, you come in and you get your head down. You get some results and then maybe after a year you might think: ‘If they come to me now I might have something to say.’

But I’m sorry, I just think this show comes across as American schmalz. It's totally ill-advised and some of the stuff that I have seen so far in the first three episodes is cringeworthy. I think everybody shares that point of view. The problem is, once you get American owners intent on doing it and intent on getting everyone involved it's extremely difficult.

One of the great things about the Liverpool of old and things like the Boot Room is that occasional stories would come out but the place itself it had a mystique about it. A myth about it. Now, all of a sudden they are trying to show the club as it is. Warts and all.

Well, at the moment the club isn’t doing particularly well. The soundbites are great but it's plain for everyone to see that there is a lot wrong. Also, there is so much corporate speak it's frightening.

One other thing. The show I saw on Saturday ended up with Ian Ayre, the chief executive, jumping on his Harley Davison and riding through the city.  Come on!! Shankly would be turning in his grave. So would Paisley and Fagan and all of those Liverpool legends.

I’d also love to know what the rest of the managers of most of the teams in the Premier League would think about it. Because right now I think: “Oh. My. Word.”

I don’t think it would irreparably damage Brendan’s reputation because he has only just taken over and he is a communicator which is absolutely fine.  But Brendan needs to win some games. It's alright saying that the team are starting to play well but you can play the nicest football in the world.

It doesn’t matter unless you win the games.

In the meantime I just shake my head at how ill-advised that show has been.

But they Liverpool have got American owners. What do you expect?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2012, 10:28:30 PM
was reading that article earlier today.

it referred to a Mark Lawrenson article, s=which I had not seen, from earlier this month.
C'mon dude, he's just saying what anyone who understands the football club would think.

I wonder when watching it what exactly we're to expect in terms of results with Rodgers,
Pascoe and Marsh in the changing room (No disrespect to Mike Marsh, but he's hardly
experienced).
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2012, 10:42:16 PM
C'mon dude, he's just saying what anyone who understands the football club would think.

I wonder when watching it what exactly we're to expect in terms of results with Rodgers,
Pascoe and Marsh in the changing room (No disrespect to Mike Marsh, but he's hardly
experienced).

I think Pep Segura would have been the considered appointment, made with the head. Mike Marsh was the emotional, sop to the fans, not sure which part of the body it was made with. In a few years I think Rodgers won't do the same again.

As for the TV, it's all down to the owners, says everything about them, and Ayre to a degree and I don't think too much about Rodgers. As the new man he wasn't in any position to protest. A couple of years down the line and I think he'd have a lot more to say before it happened. I get the feeling that Rodgers will have learnt a lot from the transfer window debarcle, about Ayre, his employers and the level of participation he is going to have to take as opposed to under Huw Jenkins at Swansea.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2012, 11:00:57 PM
C'mon dude, he's just saying what anyone who understands the football club would think.

I wonder when watching it what exactly we're to expect in terms of results with Rodgers,
Pascoe and Marsh in the changing room (No disrespect to Mike Marsh, but he's hardly
experienced).

good to see someone of such prominence have the guts to go public.  Many folks sit on the fence.

re Marsh - inexperienced, feels like a political appointment......same as when Carragher gets a coaching job next summer. 

would be cool if we put football first, for a change, instead of the politics of personalities.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2012, 11:08:38 PM
re Marsh - inexperienced, feels like a political appointment......same as when Carragher gets a coaching job next summer. 

would be cool if we put football first, for a change, instead of the politics of personalities.

Amen to that.

Ronnie Moran, Joe Fagan, Bob Paisley, Reuben Bennett, Tom Saunders. Even their collective names can't spell 'cool' but then that wasn't what was required, and neither is it now, or likely to ever be, unless we give up on the idea of winning trophies as being the reason this club exists.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2012, 11:12:48 PM
Amen to that.

Ronnie Moran, Joe Fagan, Bob Paisley, Reuben Bennett, Tom Saunders. Even their collective names can't spell 'cool' but then that wasn't what was required, and neither is it now, or likely to ever be, unless we give up on the idea of winning trophies as being the reason this club exists.

exactly.

football ability (whether it be on the pitch, in the dugout, or as a coach) needs to be the key reason for any appointment.

I prefer the talking to be done behind doors, by experienced mature folks,  and less of the personalities and media darlings.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2012, 11:20:21 PM
exactly.

football ability (whether it be on the pitch, in the dugout, or as a coach) needs to be the key reason for any appointment.

I prefer the talking to be done behind doors, by experienced mature folks,  and less of the personalities and media darlings.

Dude, I think we need to form 'FIFA for the over 40s'. A breakaway parallel universe of football where sport counts and anyone waving a wedge of cash gets the door slammed in their face.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2012, 11:28:14 PM
good to see someone of such prominence have the guts to go public.  Many folks sit on the fence.
What do you think the lads who won league title after league title are
thinking? those who won European Cups and gave blood, sweat and tears
to the cause? Those who were part of the era when we were the top team
in the land and the envy of all and sundry?

To his credit Lawro? has in this instance articulated it well, he can occasionally be
insightful about LFC when he puts down the knitting needles for the endless cliches
he gets paid handsomely to spin for Auntie Beeb.

But it's exactly what you and I and Tes were saying over the Summer when he first
started spouting on. We all said head down. Maybe we just don't get it or have the
visionary insight and uncritical thinking capacity of modern fans such as... ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2012, 11:29:57 PM
Dude, I think we need to form 'FIFA for the over 40s'. A breakaway parallel universe of football where sport counts and anyone waving a wedge of cash gets the door slammed in their face.  :D

 :D

agreed.

we need a breakaway parallel universe league.

saint and greavsie on a saturday morning, big match and match of the day on the weekends.......and ITV matches coming from the regions (added an authentic vibe to the size of the country),  and the odd midweek match shown after reggie bousanquet has headed for the pub (after News at Ten).

ah for the days before bosman, free transfers, sky, murdoch, news international, champions league, top 4, CL spot, new stadium, brand named stadia, etc.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2012, 11:33:22 PM
To his credit Lawro? has in this instance articulated it well, he can occasionally be
insightful about LFC when he puts down the knitting needles for the endless cliches
he gets paid handsomely to spin for Auntie Beeb.

But it's exactly what you and I and Tes were saying over the Summer when he first
started spouting on. We all said head down. Maybe we just don't get it or have the
visionary insight and uncritical thinking capacity of modern fans such as... ;D

we should be on the club board, Ed.

I'll be the quiet one in the corner of the board-room, who offers conciliation when things get heated.

tes can be the confrontational hot head, who starts an argument in a broom cupboard.

and Ed, unsure of your role as yet.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2012, 11:44:16 PM
and Ed, unsure of your role as yet.
I was thinking I could make sure there was enough tea to go round  :)

btw dude if you're interested in proper football men and not the middle
management imposters we have to put up with these days, i suggest
you check out this 3 part epic on the real deal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53TaTp5N4sw

It puts the current charade in context.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2012, 11:55:02 PM
I was thinking I could make sure there was enough tea to go round  :)


A good cup of tea is always the basis of good, clear decision making. And a good old Rich Tea or Arrowroot biscuit to dunk. If we win something we can splash out on the great oaty taste of an Abbey Crunch.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 24, 2012, 05:08:21 PM
A good cup of tea is always the basis of good, clear decision making. And a good old Rich Tea or Arrowroot biscuit to dunk. If we win something we can splash out on the great oaty taste of an Abbey Crunch.

Tes, if you aspire to be a great manager you should only consider custard creams. Apparently Jose has them flown to Madrid after he was first introduced to them at Chelsea.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2012, 08:48:56 PM
Tes, if you aspire to be a great manager you should only consider custard creams. Apparently Jose has them flown to Madrid after he was first introduced to them at Chelsea.  :D

Never been a fan of them, and Mourinho confirms 'my good taste'.  ;D

Bob Paisley would have been a Rich Tea man, and would have pushed the boat out with a digestive.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 24, 2012, 08:56:00 PM
Never been a fan of them, and Mourinho confirms 'my good taste'.  ;D

Bob Paisley would have been a Rich Tea man, and would have pushed the boat out with a digestive.

Not dunked of course!!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2012, 09:03:04 PM
Not dunked of course!!

Never. It undoes the 'balance' between wet and dry, and who wants a biscuity sludge in the bottom of their mug.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 24, 2012, 09:40:16 PM
Never. It undoes the 'balance' between wet and dry, and who wants a biscuity sludge in the bottom of their mug.
It's all in the timing Tes. Dunk too long and you get a mess. Dunk too briefly and not enough tea is absorbed. Knowing how long to dunk is as important as knowing when to make changes to the team!  ;)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2012, 10:31:34 PM
It's all in the timing Tes. Dunk too long and you get a mess. Dunk too briefly and not enough tea is absorbed. Knowing how long to dunk is as important as knowing when to make changes to the team!  ;)

Everything comes down to timing, I agree - Suarez needs to learn to time his striking of his shots better. Focus on timing and accuracy and the goals will flow.

As I don't drink milk, I find the biscuit absorbs it quicker, though I prefer to keep the tastes seperate.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 31, 2012, 11:13:27 PM
I do not think Rodgers will be missed by the people at Swansea.

Definately not tonight.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 31, 2012, 11:15:56 PM
A very interesting comparison between the old and the new Swansea managers:

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/if-carlsberg-did-managers-laudrup-shows-rodgers-tiki-taka-2-0/ (http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/if-carlsberg-did-managers-laudrup-shows-rodgers-tiki-taka-2-0/)

Advantage new Swansea manager.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2012, 11:17:46 PM
Definately not tonight.

the thing is, in supposedly nicking Swansea's two top assets (rodgers and allen) we were intending to strengthen ourselves and weaken them. 

but it has not turned out that way.

we have precious few trophies to aim for, going out of the league cup to swansea, at anfield, is very frustrating.

memories of graeme souness and getting beaten at anfield by bristol city in the fa cup.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2012, 11:21:34 PM
Advantage new Swansea manager.

good article.

one comment about this season;s swansea, hit me.....

"The passing style was more varied and less predictable, thus being harder to defend"

common sense, innit.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on October 31, 2012, 11:31:15 PM
They could dominate the passing and possession or could counter attack at speed when we tried to gain the upper hand and control posession. They seemed to have an answer, or rather the answer for whatever we did or attempted to do. That's worrying.

Surely the 14 players we used man for man aren't worse than Swansea's fourteen or thirteen (can't remember if they used 3 subs) but the result and the indepth story of the match would suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on October 31, 2012, 11:41:33 PM
we have precious few trophies to aim for, going out of the league cup to swansea, at anfield, is very frustrating.
Aye! and November has some tough fixtures ahead.

Tonight was supposed to provide some sort of reassurance about
the quality of the fringe players and keep an opportunity for
silverware ticking away in the background.

Instead we get dumped out and further contribute to the wear and tear of
important/star players Luis/Sterling/Gerrard.

I fear this could have ramifications for the season ahead. Hope we aint
floundering/jaded when the relatively easy pickings come round in December.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2012, 11:43:02 PM
They could dominate the passing and possession or could counter attack at speed when we tried to gain the upper hand and control posession. They seemed to have an answer, or rather the answer for whatever we did or attempted to do. That's worrying.

Surely the 14 players we used man for man aren't worse than Swansea's fourteen or thirteen (can't remember if they used 3 subs) but the result and the indepth story of the match would suggest otherwise.

agreed....it is worrying when the excuse used is that we don;t have quality in depth, when we are playing friggin swansea city.    What depth of squad can the have, compared to ourselves.

as for swansea having answers to all our ploys, i mentioned this a few times previously - i.e. that I think managers already have rodgers measure.  I think they have had him sussed for a while.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2012, 11:49:05 PM
Instead we get dumped out and further contribute to the wear and tear of
important/star players Luis/Sterling/Gerrard.

Hope we aint floundering/jaded when the relatively easy pickings come round in December.

Ed, I suspect and fear, that there are not going to be any "easy pickings" this season. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 01, 2012, 12:08:18 AM
Ed, I suspect and fear, that there are not going to be any "easy pickings" this season. 
I'm wondering, i mean ok slow start but we'd really want to pick up on that
during November. Instead we appear to have a hell of a lot of self-inflicted
and mounting problems. C'mon the gaffer isn't confident of winning a game
unless he plays Suarez and Gerrard (That stretches back to Udinese!).

So what'll be the cost of competing in the league this November and like you
say come December will we be in disarray??

The mighty Swansea dumped us out of the Carling Cup, presumably because we
have bigger fish to fry....Em they're a point above us in the league.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 01, 2012, 12:20:01 AM
I'm wondering, i mean ok slow start but we'd really want to pick up on that
during November. Instead we appear to have a hell of a lot of self-inflicted
and mounting problems. C'mon the gaffer isn't confident of winning a game
unless he plays Suarez and Gerrard (That stretches back to Udinese!).

So what'll be the cost of competing in the league this November and like you
say come December will we be in disarray??

The mighty Swansea dumped us out of the Carling Cup, presumably because we
have bigger fish to fry....Em they're a point above us in the league.

one often sees teams make slow starts, and then get their balance and issues sorted, and then quickly make progress up the league.  Everton and Arsenal, in recent seasons, have made poor starts, but then found a good balance (of their new recruits into their team), and finish the second half of the season strongly.

Thus, at some point soon, I would *expect* us to kick on and start putting some results together.

But I have a nagging fear that this won't happen.  I do not see any progress on getting a balanced side; nor do I see any evidence of our boss having the necessary abilities (beyond mid table football).  I see one style of football and nothing else.  It's like a kid only eating ice-cream all the time.  One needs balance, tweaks, change of styles, change of tempo, etc etc. 

We have 10 points, with a quarter of the season almost gone.  And Suarez and Gerrard have played in nearly all those games.  If we are to score, Suarez needs to have his shooting boots on.  Our premiership status could be dependent on Suarez staying fit, and on form.

I think the nightmare scenario right now, is Suarez picking up a bad injury.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 01, 2012, 01:03:00 AM
Aye! and November has some tough fixtures ahead.

Tonight was supposed to provide some sort of reassurance about
the quality of the fringe players and keep an opportunity for
silverware ticking away in the background.

Instead we get dumped out and further contribute to the wear and tear of
important/star players Luis/Sterling/Gerrard.

I fear this could have ramifications for the season ahead. Hope we aint
floundering/jaded when the relatively easy pickings come round in December.

agreed....it is worrying when the excuse used is that we don;t have quality in depth, when we are playing friggin swansea city.    What depth of squad can the have, compared to ourselves.

as for swansea having answers to all our ploys, i mentioned this a few times previously - i.e. that I think managers already have rodgers measure.  I think they have had him sussed for a while.

Ed, I suspect and fear, that there are not going to be any "easy pickings" this season.

I'm wondering, i mean ok slow start but we'd really want to pick up on that
during November. Instead we appear to have a hell of a lot of self-inflicted
and mounting problems. C'mon the gaffer isn't confident of winning a game
unless he plays Suarez and Gerrard (That stretches back to Udinese!).

So what'll be the cost of competing in the league this November and like you
say come December will we be in disarray??

The mighty Swansea dumped us out of the Carling Cup, presumably because we
have bigger fish to fry....Em they're a point above us in the league.

one often sees teams make slow starts, and then get their balance and issues sorted, and then quickly make progress up the league.  Everton and Arsenal, in recent seasons, have made poor starts, but then found a good balance (of their new recruits into their team), and finish the second half of the season strongly.

Thus, at some point soon, I would *expect* us to kick on and start putting some results together.

But I have a nagging fear that this won't happen.  I do not see any progress on getting a balanced side; nor do I see any evidence of our boss having the necessary abilities (beyond mid table football).  I see one style of football and nothing else.  It's like a kid only eating ice-cream all the time.  One needs balance, tweaks, change of styles, change of tempo, etc etc. 

We have 10 points, with a quarter of the season almost gone.  And Suarez and Gerrard have played in nearly all those games.  If we are to score, Suarez needs to have his shooting boots on.  Our premiership status could be dependent on Suarez staying fit, and on form.

I think the nightmare scenario right now, is Suarez picking up a bad injury.

Sorry about the multiple quoting but reading them one after another as I have just done makes for some bleak reading and a less than positive outlook. Even playing Devil's advocate it's hard to construct a good argument against what you both say.

Still, I'm sure someone else will manage it where I have failed.  :D       Hopefully.  For the sake of our season.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 01, 2012, 01:17:19 AM
Sorry about the multiple quoting but reading them one after another as I have just done makes for some bleak reading and a less than positive outlook. Even playing Devil's advocate it's hard to construct a good argument against what you both say.

Still, I'm sure someone else will manage it where I have failed.  :D       Hopefully.  For the sake of our season.

mark my words, martin and edward will be in here tomorrow morning, bright and breezy, to put a spring in our step.    ;)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on November 01, 2012, 09:41:25 AM
Even playing Devil's advocate it's hard to construct a good argument against what you both say.

I guess one argument could be that allowing for 10 years of mismanagement of the club it's a big ask to turn around and rectify the institutional and structural problems caused in the process in less than a quarter of a sseason. In a way it says more of the depressing state you're in than anything else.

I really thought Tes had a very interesting point in another thread about the dismantling process is still ongoing. That the rebuilding process hasn't really kicked in just yet. If we accept that hypothesis then I think the quotes above seems to miss the point entirely.

Breezy enough?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on November 01, 2012, 10:54:44 AM
I guess one argument could be that allowing for 10 years of mismanagement of the club it's a big ask to turn around and rectify the institutional and structural problems caused in the process in less than a quarter of a sseason.

4 years ago we were rated number 1 in Europe and firmly established in the top 4. I'd agree with you if you said in the last 3 years or so but our squad is threadbare because we let all of out top players leave for free and bought shine-a-light. Now ok (at a push) i'll go with the 'maxi and bellers' wanted to go milarky...though you wonder how much effort was put into keeping them or whether it was the 'oh we don't have to pay their wages' anymore...maybe we can get rid of all the players and then just get some volunteers to play for free? (that was a joke FSG - just in case).
But both Kuyt and Carroll wanted to stay and are you seriously telling me that they couldn't do a job last night?

No guile, no commitment and no clue.

I'll go with the breezy, think positive approach and say that hey at least we can put more effort into avoiding relegation now! Whhhoooppeeedooo!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 01, 2012, 11:35:57 AM
4 years ago we were rated number 1 in Europe and firmly established in the top 4. I'd agree with you if you said in the last 3 years or so but our squad is threadbare because we let all of out top players leave for free

both Kuyt and Carroll wanted to stay and are you seriously telling me that they couldn't do a job last night?

No guile, no commitment and no clue.

I'll go with the breezy, think positive approach and say that hey at least we can put more effort into avoiding relegation now! Whhhoooppeeedooo!

absolutely, barticus.

and as sure as night follows day, if a club keeps repeatedly making bad decisions, it gets weakened.

like you, I am counting down the points, til we hit the magic 40 mark.

this rebuilding malarky sure takes it out of you.

but just imagine how much worse it would be, if we hadn;t started as number one club in europe four years ago.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on November 01, 2012, 12:31:01 PM
4 years ago we were rated number 1 in Europe and firmly established in the top 4. I'd agree with you if you said in the last 3 years or so but our squad is threadbare because we let all of out top players leave for free and bought shine-a-light. Now ok (at a push) i'll go with the 'maxi and bellers' wanted to go milarky...though you wonder how much effort was put into keeping them or whether it was the 'oh we don't have to pay their wages' anymore...maybe we can get rid of all the players and then just get some volunteers to play for free? (that was a joke FSG - just in case).
But both Kuyt and Carroll wanted to stay and are you seriously telling me that they couldn't do a job last night?

No guile, no commitment and no clue.

I'll go with the breezy, think positive approach and say that hey at least we can put more effort into avoiding relegation now! Whhhoooppeeedooo!

I think your point about us being rated no 1 in Europe is a fair and valid one. At the same time I think it should be used  with some caution, for while it is true we no doubt did extremly well in Europe we  also struggled at home to become that cohesive team that would take us closer towards no. 19.

When I say that mismanagement of this club's been allowed for 10 years I don't necessarily point in the direction of a certain manager but rather try to describe a state in which the club has found itself on different levels time and again during that time. I will always maintain Rafa symbolized improvement during his first 2-3 seasons in charge. A period during which he was, to some extent, disadvantaged by the then owners. I think any football club must be somewhat stable on all levels and having all key actors pulling in the same direction to be successful. That hasn't been the case for a very long time when it comes to LFC.

Now, and I know you won't agree, I do believe the work has begun to have the FSG, Brendan and the squad do just that - create a united LFC (please excuse the blashpeme). This process will no doubt take time. In fact it may, as far as I could tell from a rather ignorant position, take this season and probably the bulk of next until this stable condition has prevailed long enough to see results come more or less as if the team is on autopilot (see ManU during the 90's and 00's or the LFC of the 70's and the 80's for references).

That's why I like Tes' point about us still being in the dismantling part of the process, rather than in a rebuilding one (cheers for the lengthy reply Tes, highly appreciated!).

I do however, do not like the sniping remarks about relegatin this or that. We won't probably finish above 7th but not below 11th either and I think you know it as well so those comments doesn't really help constructive debate.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 01, 2012, 01:10:21 PM
(we are still) in the dismantling part of the process, rather than in a rebuilding one....

This process will no doubt take time. In fact it may, as far as I could tell from a rather ignorant position, take this season and probably the bulk of next until this stable condition has prevailed long enough to see results come more or less as if the team is on autopilot

it sounds more like a ten year plan (as opposed to a 5 year plan).

we need time to sell the family silver, scuttle the ship, and then rebuild from scratch.

but on the bright side, tractor production is up.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on November 01, 2012, 02:54:10 PM
it sounds more like a ten year plan (as opposed to a 5 year plan).

we need time to sell the family silver, scuttle the ship, and then rebuild from scratch.

but on the bright side, tractor production is up.

I just picked up on Tes' point which I thought was a great way of looking at things. I'm sure it'll help me adjust my expectations during what will most likely be a roller-coaster season. Will it take 10 years, tho? No. But regardless of who we'd brought in any manager would have to carry past sins of this club so we better start accepting the idea progression may not be as quick as we'd hope for. It'll take this season to evaluate and strengthen the squad and rebuilding it the next. Around december next year I expect to see a more balanced, mature and comfortable side able to string wins together. I know it's frustrating but there really isn't any quick fix for this one the way I see it. Rafa got 6 years and so did GH. Let us at least give Brendan one and a half season.

additionally, Brendan's been extremly unlucky with the fixture list. With a fixture list more like Chelsea's (is this the 4th year running where their first 5 games is against teams finally finishing in the bottom 7?) he'd get a totally different chance to instill confidence and communicate his gameplan to the team.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on November 01, 2012, 07:04:02 PM
Martin there is no point debating with Dude. He made his mind up on Rodgers already.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on November 01, 2012, 08:36:46 PM
Martin there is no point debating with Dude. He made his mind up on Rodgers already.

Correction. He already made up his mind on anybody who isn't Rafa.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 02, 2012, 10:32:01 PM
Martin, think of it another way. You can't stop an ocean liner dead in it's tracks, neither can you turn it around 180 degrees quickly either.
We're trying to stop our good ship LFC from going in the wrong direction and then turning it around to face the other way. Unfortunately since we started sailing in the wrong direction there have been additionally icebergs in the form of Spurs, a 'Titanic killer' in Man City and the existing ones of Arsenal, Chelsea and the Mancs are still there, with the Chelsea sized iceberg having increased in side.
Even once we get the ship to halt, we have to turn it around, trying to avoid the icebergs, who are giving us little room to manoeuvre, meaning we will remain partially facing the wrong way for a while until we've shunted back and forth and got ourselves into a partially forward facing position.

Of course ice doesn't stay still so even a well plotted course can need to be revised several times.

We need to have a captain and crew of the required levels of skill - that is what we are gradually finding out about.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 02, 2012, 10:56:25 PM
Here's a link to an interview with the manager
on 5 Live Sport:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nkws9

It starts around the 1 hour 5 minute mark.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 02, 2012, 11:01:44 PM
City have recruited Txiki Begiristain, who we were heavily linked with, and made him their DoF.

Have they gained something, or just probably stirred it up where Mancini's concerned? Have we missed out again?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 02, 2012, 11:19:22 PM
Here's a link to an interview with the manager
on 5 Live Sport:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nkws9

It starts around the 1 hour 5 minute mark.

Interesting - 'no recruitment team here'. So Comolli and Dalglish were previously 'it'. Macia was a waste of O2, but after he went? Nothing? No cohesive scouting network?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 02, 2012, 11:26:56 PM
He sounded far from happy with a few things, rather frustrated and I imagine his tongue his rather sore from biting it.

That was probably the most 'mature' interview I've heard him give and it seems like his eyes have now been well and truly opened to the immensity (if that's even a word) of the task ahead.

He seems to have given up on the self promotion and the bigging up of 'his way'. Definately seems like he's starting to, or at least trying to, grow up as a manager.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 02, 2012, 11:50:47 PM
He sounded far from happy with a few things, rather frustrated and I imagine his tongue his rather sore from biting it.

That was probably the most 'mature' interview I've heard him give and it seems like his eyes have now been well and truly opened to the immensity (if that's even a word) of the task ahead.

He seems to have given up on the self promotion and the bigging up of 'his way'. Definately seems like he's starting to, or at least trying to, grow up as a manager.
It was interesting the point in terms of consistency and youth
raised by Perry Groves (Tintin!) and it's one Lucas has mentioned
previously as well.

He also said he saw Suso, Sterling & Wisdom as starters,
presumably meaning Johnson stays on the left when he's
back?

Given that we're going up against the likes of Newcastle &
Chelsea and Spurs away this month, I don't have any real
cause for optimism that we're going to progress up the table.

I think:
1.) Missing Lucas means the midfield isn't settled.
2.) The injury to Kelly deprives us of experience at RB, unsettling the backline,
particularly as it's on Suso's side.
3.) The games are coming thick and fast for the kids and it's premiership level
against some top teams. We may see some inconsistency there.
4.) As he mentioned Luis is a card away from missing a game and we seem to
have virtually zero options to replace him.

As I've said before, I'd be looking to grind out 1-0 results and leave the experimentation
to a point where we are comfortable and not struggling in the league.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on November 03, 2012, 10:25:41 AM
He sounded far from happy with a few things, rather frustrated and I imagine his tongue his rather sore from biting it.

That was probably the most 'mature' interview I've heard him give and it seems like his eyes have now been well and truly opened to the immensity (if that's even a word) of the task ahead.

He seems to have given up on the self promotion and the bigging up of 'his way'. Definately seems like he's starting to, or at least trying to, grow up as a manager.

But Tes, he always had to build himself up after succeeding Kenny, don't you think? Agree he acted as a very mature manager tho I heard a more up-beat and up-for-it manager than you did, or maybe that's the Swedish sound-filter?

Me too was shocked to hear there were no recruitment team in place when he took over which I think says a lot about why FSG just had to let Kenny go. I mean, not having such a resource in place after having spent 120 million and 16 months is reason alone to sack any manager.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 03, 2012, 10:28:54 PM
But Tes, he always had to build himself up after succeeding Kenny, don't you think?

Firstly, because getting rid of Dalglish was always going to cause major fall out, I think he was on a hiding to nothing anyway. He wasn't going to win, no matter what he said, no matter how much he tried to talk a good game. Sometimes you just have to know that in certain situations you can't win.
Secondly, the worst thing he could do was 'tell' the fan base anything or at least what to think. I don't know if it's an English and Irish thing, but so many of us just don't like people telling us how good they are. We much prefer them to simply keep their head down, work hard and 'prove' it.

I can't think of one manager, who if appointed, would have made all of the fanbase accepting of Dalglish's exit.

That was the mistake that was made by both the owners and Kenny himself. They should have all just accepted appointing him as caretaker for the rest of the season, and Kenny himself should have told everyone that that's all it would be, no matter what. If he failed, it was Hodgson's fault anyway. If he succeded, as he did, then he walks away, legend rightfully enhanced.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 03, 2012, 10:53:14 PM
I think we all could do with some light relief, and here it is, courtesy of: http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/109802-were-mangaer.html (http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/109802-were-mangaer.html)

well i looked into the dug out at the stat of the game an anfeld and the manager was not their well wear is he it is his job to be there.

Also some one tell me please wehre is he at the end of the game because if you look at man united they have a manager at thend of the game to but roger is nowere to be seen yet again.

and look at the stats if you disagree
rogers
strengths - passing out of defense, Belfast town ringroad
Ferguson
strenghts - won the epl, stays in the dugout when i look, gud players
roger weaknesseses - hoofing it, catholicism

well he shud go now.


Comedy gold.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 15, 2012, 04:39:40 PM
Great article from Jonathan Wilson about the influence
of Bielsa on modern football:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/nov/15/why-more-goals-scored-football

Love the way he finishes with:
"The counter-revolution will come but for now, at the highest club level, it's all about Bielsisme."
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 16, 2012, 04:46:54 PM
good article, Ed.  Thanks for the link.

fascinating data.

teams are scoring more goals across europe in recent years......more passes.....more focus on possession.......less tackling, and less focus on winning the ball back...more technical abilities......the percentage of passes played into the final third has dropped.....and there are much less crosses in recent years.

fascinating issues, worthy of much discussion within the industry.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 16, 2012, 09:59:26 PM
good article, Ed.  Thanks for the link.

fascinating data.

teams are scoring more goals across europe in recent years......more passes.....more focus on possession.......less tackling, and less focus on winning the ball back...more technical abilities......the percentage of passes played into the final third has dropped.....and there are much less crosses in recent years.

fascinating issues, worthy of much discussion within the industry.
One of the reasons imo we should try get as much experience of
European football as we can.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 16, 2012, 11:42:55 PM
good article, Ed.  Thanks for the link.

fascinating data.

teams are scoring more goals across europe in recent years......more passes.....more focus on possession.......less tackling, and less focus on winning the ball back...more technical abilities......the percentage of passes played into the final third has dropped.....and there are much less crosses in recent years.

fascinating issues, worthy of much discussion within the industry.

I blame Alf Ramsey and his 'wingless wonders'.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 23, 2012, 11:09:12 PM
Two more pieces of incendiary journalism for us to pour over, or should that be paw over   ;D


Brendan Rodgers has no fear of Chelsea-style ruthlessness at Anfield

Wednesday 21 November 2012


Brendan Rodgers believes Liverpool will not continue to follow Chelsea's unstable managerial course under owners who apologised to him for the state of the first-team squad at Anfield. Though the Northern Irishman became Liverpool's fourth manager in two years when he arrived in June, and is the third to work under Fenway Sports Group since they took control in October 2010, he does not fear a repeat of the ruthlessness that cost Roberto Di Matteo his job at Stamford Bridge. That confidence is based on the support of Liverpool's principal owner John W Henry and chairman Tom Werner who, Rodgers revealed, accepted responsibility for the weakness of the squad following the club's calamitous end to the summer transfer window.

The Liverpool manager, who faces Young Boys of Berne in the Europa League on Thursday, admitted Di Matteo's sacking was a "disappointing day" for all managers but denied working in a no-win industry. "That is true at some clubs," he said. "This is a different club."

Rodgers, handed a three-year contract with the option of an extra year by FSG, elaborated: "There comes a point when the reality has to set in. We spoke about it at length before I came into here. Everyone knows that to turn around Liverpool, to get it to where we want to be and where the club deserves to be, there is not going to be a quick fix unless you are going to throw an absolute fortune at it. The owners have been true to their word. They have been remarkable with the support that I have been given, especially early on when we lost some games. I had messages of support, some were apologetic that I had been given the group I have been given. Their support has been unswerving. As a manager that bodes well going forward."

The Liverpool manager met Werner following the 3-0 win over Wigan on Saturday and admits his treatment during a difficult start at Anfield is further cause to believe FSG have a long-term approach. He added: "I really respect that people have been lenient with me because this is a club that demands so much. But I have also been respectful of how realistic people have been."

Liverpool beat the Swiss club 5-3 in the opening game of Group A, but Young Boys have since resurrected their campaign with back-to-back wins over Udinese. Rodgers, who may allow Jon Flanagan and Danny Wilson to go on loan on Thursday, said: "They have got a threat and can score goals. They commit a lot of players forward and if you look at the way they play there are sometimes six players in the box. It leaves them a wee bit open going the other way."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/21/brendan-rodgers-liverpool-young-boys (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/21/brendan-rodgers-liverpool-young-boys)




Liverpool hire 'expert on common sense'

Friday 23 November 2012

Liverpool have appointed Steve Peters, the sports psychologist credited with helping to transform the fortunes of British cycling, to work with manager Brendan Rodgers and his team.

Peters, whom Bradley Wiggins called "a world expert on common sense", will work one day a week at Liverpool's Melwood training ground in addition to his commitments with UK Athletics.

"As a manager, it can be a lonely business when you are trying to drive the club forward," said Rodgers as he prepared to return to Swansea, where, despite his achievements at the Liberty Stadium, he may not receive a warm reception.

He confirmed that Peters's work would not just be confined to Liverpool's players but extend to his own backroom staff. "It is nice to have a different set of eyes and experiences," Rodgers said. "I do a lot of technical, tactical and physical training and sometimes what gets bypassed is the mental thing for players, especially in the modern game at the top level."

Peters worked with mentally ill patients at Rampton Hospital before turning his attention to sport and has had limited involvement in football, although Craig Bellamy employed him in a personal capacity and credited him with an upswing in form that helped him take Liverpool to last season's League Cup final. Bellamy said that Peters's work stresses becoming not a better footballer but a more rational person, who can think more clearly under pressure.

Rodgers said: "I have always worked with neurologists, who are not just about sport but life, really. Sometimes, having someone independent to support you is good.

"We have brought in someone who is one of the leading guys in the world in what he does – and it is a real coup for us."


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-hire-expert-on-common-sense-8347638.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-hire-expert-on-common-sense-8347638.html)

Surely it'll take more than one day a week to get through to the owners.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2012, 11:16:14 PM
Friday 23 November 2012

Liverpool have appointed Steve Peters, the sports psychologist credited with helping to transform the fortunes of British cycling, to work with manager Brendan Rodgers and his team.

Peters, whom Bradley Wiggins called "a world expert on common sense", will work one day a week at Liverpool's Melwood training ground in addition to his commitments with UK Athletics.


Surely it'll take more than one day a week to get through to the owners.  :D

darn, you beat me to it!

 :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 24, 2012, 02:11:40 PM
darn, you beat me to it!

 :D

 :D  The old arthritic fingers are now tied up  in knots as a consequence.

Now where did I put that 3in1 oil?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on November 24, 2012, 06:27:09 PM
Interesting that we've hired a sports psychologist to work with the players and staff. It can only be a good thing.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 24, 2012, 08:04:01 PM
Interesting that we've hired a sports psychologist to work with the players and staff. It can only be a good thing.

Who's first in, Downing or Hendo?  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 25, 2012, 11:26:40 PM
From: http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/rodgers-a-marked-difference-from-may (http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/rodgers-a-marked-difference-from-may)


"But we all know you need to get in your own types of player before you can actually say it's your side.

"When I came into Swansea in the first year we had 12 players [come in] over the course of the season, six moved on. In the second season seven came in, nine others went the other way. Until you get that turnover of players, then you can't look at it as your team."


So what happens inbetween, however long that is?

As I've said before, peel back to Dalglish's caretaker spell, second only in points collected to Chelsea, with a squad than ran out of legs due to injuries.

There's your starting point. There's your immediate aim. Then as/when/if you get the type of player you want, gradually evolve.

But as I say, what happens between now and the time the squad is filled with his kind of players?

We won't be getting 19 players in between Summer 2012 and end of January 2014, that's four windows in total.

So what happens in the mean time, whenever and however long that proves to be? I really would like to know as I can't see from anything he's said up to now, what the answer to my question is.

 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2012, 12:29:43 AM
peel back to Dalglish's caretaker spell, second only in points collected to Chelsea, with a squad than ran out of legs due to injuries.

There's your starting point. There's your immediate aim.

But as I say, what happens between now and the time the squad is filled with his kind of players?

So what happens in the mean time, whenever and however long that proves to be? I really would like to know as I can't see from anything he's said up to now, what the answer to my question is.

it's the same bulls.hit from Rodgers, Tes.

he's been saying it since he got the job e.g. we are going forward, we have to take a step back in order to rebuild stronger, etc, etc.  Of course this progress is all on the long finger, there is never anything tangable here and now, in the present.  Indeed, a couple of months ago, he suggested that the rebuild would take years, indeed it would take so long that he suggested he would not be around to see the fruits of it!

Like I mean, have you ever heard so much BS in your life.

My best friend (the one that played and helped me manage the football club), would always go off the deep end, when he heard a new manager talking about a new job as a PROJECT.  The word project had him spitting feathers.  It was the word used commonly by bullsh.itters.  A project is something that allows it's instigator lots of time before they finally get get caught on.  Now fair enough, people do need time and some top managers will talk about a project.  I would often hear Portuguese people speak of projects.  But it is too common an excuse for the weak and the BS brigade.  Rodgers has not used project, to date, though he talks endlessly about *going forward*

Anyroads, back to the topic at hand.....yesterday our boss was reckoning that there is no reason why we can't challenge for the league title, one day.  See his quotes below.

But the messiah has warned us, from his pulpit, that we will have to drop down a few levels.  But have no fears, he has given us a guarantee that the promised land is just over the mountain.

Quote
"There's absolutely no reason why we can't [challenge] over the next numbers of years. Sometimes you've got to drop a few levels before you build," he told BBC's Football Focus."We'll get there in the end; there's absolutely no question about that."
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2012, 12:16:00 PM
Dude, that bit you've quoted is even more worrying.

I used Villa as an example of what I was saying to Martin in reply to his questioning you quoting 40 points as a safety mark, but they can also be used in reply to that Rodgers quote. They are the best example in this league of a team that changed things, taking a step or two down, and are struggling to simply keep at the level they stepped down to.

You can't afford the luxury of stripping right back, that's why I say go back to Dalglish's half season and build from that point. If we strip right down to wherever, and we haven't got £100Ms to throw at reconstruction, by the time we've reconstructed to the point we started deconstructing we'll find the teams we were hoping to rival have moved so far forward, if we're lucky they will just be disappearing out of view.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on November 26, 2012, 05:39:11 PM
Bring back Rafa he'll solve all our problems!!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on November 26, 2012, 06:12:12 PM
Hear me, hear me to all ye unbelievers!
I am Rodgers and i doth build a project! Though ye shall mock me when i bring all that was previous history down to the bare minimum, i will not hold it against you.
Though it may look bleak, and that i may not have a fecking clue apart from a load of passing around in midfield irrelevance, let it be known that it is hypnotising the opposition into a false sense of security.
Come the spring and it's glorious bounty we shall pay rich dividends when carra and stevie g can spouteth that we are challenging for fourth...
Do not rely on simple things like results and such like...what I Brendan have built is something of faith...and if we are to succeed in the coming year, it is up to us to believe!
Hallejujah, i am the Rodgers and i doth have spoken.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2012, 06:37:24 PM
Bring back Rafa he'll solve all our problems!!

there you go again, bringing up the name of Rafa Benitez.  And next you'll be dishonestly suggesting that I always bring his name up.

See Edward, that is your problem.  You are not only nasty/exceptionally aggressive, but you are also a very dishonest debater.

e.g.  you refuse to discuss the issues above (that Tes and me have been raising above about Rodgers).  Instead you jump in with a throwaway, non-related, one-liner about our ex-boss.   

e.g.  when Ed shows up your blatant hypocrisy re your criticism of Henderson (your August boy-wonder, who was gonna be at the heart of our midfield for ten years, and now you would discard for cash).  But when called on it by Ed, you ignore the thread/discussion and don't respond.

e.g.  when you get cornered the other day, re your smart-alec response to me, about United never doing business with Liverpool (re my fear of Rafa following Fergie), only for others to remind you that the two rivals have done much business in the past, you walk away and pretend nothing's happened.

You keep getting snookered, but you dishonestly then fail to show any hint of humility or remorse.  Walking away and pretending nothing happened is dishonest. 

But the main folks in here can see through you (just the same way they can see through Rodgers).




Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2012, 06:39:00 PM
Bring back Rafa he'll solve all our problems!!

I'm guessing that's sarcasm. Where is anybody asking for a change of manager?

Edward, why do you have to jump straight in with a pointless remark like that just because people are asking questions of and about our manager?

Read the question I posted at the top of this page. Do you know the answers?

It's not sarcasm, they're genuine questions.

Because they ask questions of somebody doesn't mean people want them removing. How anyone can sensibly reach that conclusion I just can't see. Unless that person is the sort who blindly follows, blindly believes all he's told and all he reads, who doesn't think for themselves and can't stand people having any sort of opinion that differs from his.

If Rodgers was here now, and he was to be asked those questions, do you think he'd flounce off in a hissy fit, or do you think he would understand the whys and wherefors of what was being asked, and put forward his explanations.   
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2012, 06:48:22 PM
Hear me, hear me to all ye unbelievers!
I am Rodgers and i doth build a project! Though ye shall mock me when i bring all that was previous history down to the bare minimum, i will not hold it against you.
Though it may look bleak, and that i may not have a fecking clue apart from a load of passing around in midfield irrelevance, let it be known that it is hypnotising the opposition into a false sense of security.
Come the spring and it's glorious bounty we shall pay rich dividends when carra and stevie g can spouteth that we are challenging for fourth...
Do not rely on simple things like results and such like...what I Brendan have built is something of faith...and if we are to succeed in the coming year, it is up to us to believe!
Hallejujah, i am the Rodgers and i doth have spoken.

 ;D ;D ;D

I regularly have images of Martin Luther King when Rodgers speaks......only funny versions.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2012, 06:53:31 PM
(http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/K/Martin-Luther-King-Jr-9365086-2-402.jpg)

Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn't really matter with me now. Because I've been to the mountain-top. I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to be here - a long time; longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do the peoples' will.

And they have allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land.

So I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2012, 06:56:09 PM
(http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/K/Martin-Luther-King-Jr-9365086-2-402.jpg)

Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn't really matter with me now. Because I've been to the mountain-top. I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to be here - a long time; longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do the peoples' will.

And they have allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land.

So I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.

That won't please Luis.  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2012, 07:05:24 PM
Dude, that bit you've quoted is even more worrying.

I used Villa as an example of what I was saying to Martin in reply to his questioning you quoting 40 points as a safety mark, but they can also be used in reply to that Rodgers quote. They are the best example in this league of a team that changed things, taking a step or two down, and are struggling to simply keep at the level they stepped down to.

You can't afford the luxury of stripping right back, that's why I say go back to Dalglish's half season and build from that point. If we strip right down to wherever, and we haven't got £100Ms to throw at reconstruction, by the time we've reconstructed to the point we started deconstructing we'll find the teams we were hoping to rival have moved so far forward, if we're lucky they will just be disappearing out of view.

apologies Tes, I had a big post prepared an hour ago, and then my pc crashed.

yes, if we are gonna rebuild from scratch, then that is both frightening and entirely unneccessary.  Plus, if that is truly the size of the job to be done, then we need someone of great experience to undertake such a major upheaval.  Rodgers might have rebuilt his scaletrix set once, but rebuilding the mighty Liverpool is about ten levels above his experience, age and capabilities.

You know, in the post that I lost earlier, I highlighted his rebuild at Swansea.  I was posting his lineup from May (when they played United); and Swansea's lineup from yesterday.  You know what, ONLY ONE player was the same when comparing both lineups (the defender, Rangel).  So six months later, only one player was still in the Swan's starting line-up.

And of course, despite this much changed Swansea team, and despite it's tiny resources, and despite the upheaval of a new manager and his back room team arriving in the summer, it has been above us in the premiership, all season.

There is something very badly wrong at Anfield.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2012, 07:08:54 PM
That won't please Luis.  ;D

 ;D

if I had time, I would photoshop Rodgers into a picture of Martin Luther King.

but in the pic above, he does look a tad like Cyrille Regis. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 26, 2012, 07:10:05 PM
;D ;D ;D

I regularly have images of Martin Luther King when Rodgers speaks......only funny versions.
It's when he starts on in media interviews about his 3 year contract and
the assurances he's been given by the owners, you seriously begin to wonder.
So it's about him again, not the club.

It's really quite amazing, mark my words he'll be back trotting out the task is
enormous
here phrase again soon. One wonders what the task at West Brom
must have been before a bunch of well motivated and organised players stormed
to 3rd in the league with a net summer spend of £1,500,000.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2012, 07:14:44 PM
Edward, I'll put another question(s) to you.

Do you think, given that by Rodgers' own words (not mine) that we don't have the players (anywhere near enough according to what Rodgers said just the other day) to play the way Rodgers ideally wants, that's it a good idea to attempt to anyway, irrespective of lacking the right players to do so?

Do you not think that it would be an idea to play to a system that suits what he has?

Looking at the group of players at his disposal, and considering the following methods of play we've seen in the last four seasons, which is the way of playing that would suit this group of players?

a) The way we played in Benitez's last season.
b) The way we played in Hodgson's half season.
c) The way we played in Dalglish's caretaker half season?
d) The way we played in Dalglish's full season as permanent manager?

How are we going to bridge the time gap between now and when we have the group of players that Rodgers thinks are suited to his methods?

Don't forget, it's not any of us that states that the players aren't the ones needed, those words have come from the manager. They are his words, no one else's.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2012, 07:17:22 PM
It's when he starts on in media interviews about his 3 year contract and
the assurances he's been given by the owners, you seriously begin to wonder.
So it's about him again, not the club.

It's really quite amazing, mark my words he'll be back trotting out the task is
enormous
here phrase again soon. One wonders what the task at West Brom
must have been before a bunch of well motivated and organised players stormed
to 3rd in the league with a net summer spend of £1,500,000.

exactly, Ed.

and like you say, look at WBA.  Ok, their lack of resources will kick in after Christmas, but look at them go these months.   

we sack top people, and replace them with lesser mortals.  It is not by accident that Liverpool has been on a downward spiral in recent years.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2012, 07:20:09 PM
Don't forget, it's not any of us that states that the players aren't the ones needed, those words have come from the manager. They are his words, no one else's.

and just wait, given time we will have a team of Borinis and Allens. 

is that what Liverpool FC really want.

step forward, Edward.  We need some answers.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2012, 07:37:24 PM
apologies Tes, I had a big post prepared an hour ago, and then my pc crashed.

yes, if we are gonna rebuild from scratch, then that is both frightening and entirely unneccessary.  Plus, if that is truly the size of the job to be done, then we need someone of great experience to undertake such a major upheaval.  Rodgers might have rebuilt his scaletrix set once, but rebuilding the mighty Liverpool is about ten levels above his experience, age and capabilities.

You know, in the post that I lost earlier, I highlighted his rebuild at Swansea.  I was posting his lineup from May (when they played United); and Swansea's lineup from yesterday.  You know what, ONLY ONE player was the same when comparing both lineups (the defender, Rangel).  So six months later, only one player was still in the Swan's starting line-up.

And of course, despite this much changed Swansea team, and despite it's tiny resources, and despite the upheaval of a new manager and his back room team arriving in the summer, it has been above us in the premiership, all season.

There is something very badly wrong at Anfield.

I hadn't realised the turnover had been so vast.

The thing with the Swansea situation is that the whole process wasn't started by Rodgers but by Martinez. I remember the way Swansea played under Martinez and the praise he was receiving at the time, and it was just a case of when, not if, a PL team came in for him.
Then in came Paulo Sousa who strengthened them defensively, building on what Martinez had done in getting them back into the Championship and narrowly missing out on promotion in that first season.
Rodgers was able to come in on the back of some good work by two other managers and build from a position of strength that was already there.

The same can't be said about us.

Interestingly, in the season that Rodger's won promotion and had Borini playing for him on loan, Borini was played as the main, central striker.

Also, there is an ingrediant missing from Liverpool, but remaining constant between Swansea (the promotion season and last season) and Swansea this season, and that's Alan Curtis. Without having any prior or previous interest in Swansea, I do remember hearing on several occasions how highly rated as a coach Curtis was.

He was also part of the coaching staff of both Martinez and Sousa.

Swansea had also been in the Championship since 2004/5 season, so had had a solid base of experience in that league even by the time Martinez arrived.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2012, 07:56:03 PM
we sack top people, and replace them with lesser mortals.  It is not by accident that Liverpool has been on a downward spiral in recent years.

We've had a tendancy to do that with players also, started wholesale by Souness, at a critical point in our history, and carrying on where Dalglish had started with the likes of Glen Hysen (instead of Gary Pallister), Ronnie Rosenthal and David Speedie.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on November 26, 2012, 10:06:28 PM
And lo! The Brendan hath spoken!

"I am not so sure it will be in January to be honest. This year the club wanted to balance the books and see where it was at.

"There was a big investment in the club and obviously a lot of players went out in the summer and a few came in.

"We will look to do some business in January to help and support the players here, but that is where we are at as a football club and it is something the owners trust me to grow over time. Eventually we will get there."

Indeed i hath saideth! Eventually....be it this month, this year or the next millenia! The project shall be fulfilled and we shall gain the keys to the promised land of the league title!

Hallejujah and we can sleep easy once more, my brothers.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2012, 10:18:57 PM
verily verily I say unto you.

I may not get to the promised land with you.  But I will lay the foundations, such that men will come afterwards and lament on my great works, all achieved in an ambience of deep humility and quiet steadfastness.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2012, 11:03:34 PM
So the Europa League is the new promised land for FSG?  The point t which the balance between profit and 'success' lies?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2012, 11:57:16 PM
So the Europa League is the new promised land for FSG?  The point t which the balance between profit and 'success' lies?

first the europa league, then the world.

but I have been to the mountain-top, and I have seen the promised land.

I cannot reveal what I saw beyond the mountain-top, your tiny minds could not begin to comprehend what I witnessed, but it was a land of milk and honey. 

I can tell you that we will have to suffer hardship and much nashing of teeth, as we cross valleys and plains, to get to the mountain-top.  Many will fall by the wayside (including the no-good dastardly, heathen-worshipping son-of-a-bit-ch, Dude)

I cannot tell you when we will arrive at the mountain-top, but it will require faith and spiritual fortitude (and a new 5 year contract, should the buggers not catch me on before the end of this 3 year one)

But I can tell you, that we as a people, will get there.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2012, 07:33:15 PM
Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers has shrugged off talk that he was a target for Tottenham after Harry Redknapp left

November 27, 2012


Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers has shrugged off talk that he was a target for Tottenham prior to the appointment of Andre Villas-Boas.

Rodgers, who takes his Liverpool side to White Hart Lane on Wednesday was reported to be a target for Tottenham following the sacking of Harry Redknapp in the summer.

Rodgers dismissed as "irrelevant" the suggestion Tottenham had made a serious approach to him to replace Redknapp, insisting he had no regrets over his decision to move to Liverpool

"I was very happy in my work at Swansea," said Rodgers. "Harry had done a brilliant job there, and for whatever reason, the club decided that it wasn't to be and looked elsewhere.

"For me to leave Swansea was going to be a big ask, but I had the opportunity to come here, and I've not regretted any moment of it."

Asked if there had been contact with Tottenham over a move to White Hart Lane earlier this year, Rodgers said: "It's irrelevant. Tottenham have chosen a manager. Obviously, Harry had done a great job there, and they decided to go down the route of Andre Villas-Boas.

"Andre's gone in, he's looking to continue the great work Harry had done. My only thinking is about Liverpool."


http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/8290126 (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/8290126)

So was it a "yes" or a "no"?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2012, 07:50:41 PM
Liverpool “philosophy” lures Tottenham Hotspur coach

Liverpool boss Brenda Rodgers says the implementation of his “philosophy” is growing after the Reds lured away a top Tottenham Hotspur youth coach.

Alex Inglethorpe has left White Hart Lane to take up a new role as reserve team coach at Anfield, leaving his position as Andre Villas-Boas’ Under-18 coach – a role held for some time in his six years with Tottenham.

Liverpool’s capture of Inglethorpe was part of a number of academy and reserve team changes implemented at the behest of Rodgers and his desire to change the culture of coaching at the Reds.

“I'm delighted that Alex has decided to join us in our journey to create a philosophy that runs directly through the club,” the northern Irishman told the official Liverpool website.

“He has many years of experience in youth football and also managed at senior level. His unswerving belief and commitment to our way of working will bring continued success in this role.”

Rodgers has been preaching his vision of the club ever since he was appointed Liverpool manager this summer, but it did not begin very smoothly.

The Reds struggled for goals in the early days since he switched from Swansea City and they found wins hard to come by, especially at home.

However, the effect of the new regime Rodgers implemented has been improving recently, as his side have not lost in their last four outing, though wins are less frequent than they would like.


http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/liverpool-philosophy-lures-tottenham-hotspur-coach (http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/liverpool-philosophy-lures-tottenham-hotspur-coach)

Interesting. Anyone know anything about Inglethorpe? Kudos to Rodgers. Not bad to pinch a youth coach from Spurs, beating off Wolves in the process: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11699/8108407/Wolves-interested-in-adding-Alex-Inglethorpe-to-coaching-staff (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11699/8108407/Wolves-interested-in-adding-Alex-Inglethorpe-to-coaching-staff)

Anyone remember this: http://www.people.co.uk/sport/football/news/2011/02/13/exe-factor-is-key-to-cupset-for-crawley-boss-alex-inglethorpe-102039-22918492/ (http://www.people.co.uk/sport/football/news/2011/02/13/exe-factor-is-key-to-cupset-for-crawley-boss-alex-inglethorpe-102039-22918492/)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 27, 2012, 07:59:53 PM
Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers has shrugged off talk that he was a target for Tottenham after Harry Redknapp left

November 27, 2012


Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers has shrugged off talk that he was a target for Tottenham prior to the appointment of Andre Villas-Boas.

Rodgers, who takes his Liverpool side to White Hart Lane on Wednesday was reported to be a target for Tottenham following the sacking of Harry Redknapp in the summer.

Rodgers dismissed as "irrelevant" the suggestion Tottenham had made a serious approach to him to replace Redknapp, insisting he had no regrets over his decision to move to Liverpool

"I was very happy in my work at Swansea," said Rodgers. "Harry had done a brilliant job there, and for whatever reason, the club decided that it wasn't to be and looked elsewhere.

"For me to leave Swansea was going to be a big ask, but I had the opportunity to come here, and I've not regretted any moment of it."

Asked if there had been contact with Tottenham over a move to White Hart Lane earlier this year, Rodgers said: "It's irrelevant. Tottenham have chosen a manager. Obviously, Harry had done a great job there, and they decided to go down the route of Andre Villas-Boas.

"Andre's gone in, he's looking to continue the great work Harry had done. My only thinking is about Liverpool."


http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/8290126 (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/8290126)

So was it a "yes" or a "no"?
Saw that stupid press conference, tbf he was asked some
really braindead questions, consecutively by one guy (presumably LFC tv).

I'd be downbeat if I had to recognise Enrique was my Number 2
scoring threat! I mean what can you say. No real disrespect to Jose
intended but  :o

Just doesn't feel like LFC anymore, I don't know what's happened.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 27, 2012, 08:02:53 PM
Liverpool’s capture of Inglethorpe was part of a number of academy and reserve team changes implemented at the behest of Rodgers and his desire to change the culture of coaching at the Reds.
It's strange 'cos Ballague was saying the other day that Rodgers was
working to a youth system program that was begun by Rafa and
that Pep Segura would be recognised in 10 years time for the coaching
methods he introduced...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2012, 08:05:18 PM
It's strange 'cos Ballague was saying the other day that Rodgers was
working to a youth system program that was begun by Rafa and
that Pep Segura would be recognised in 10 years time for the coaching
methods he introduced...

Is there more to Pep Segura going than we've been told?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on November 27, 2012, 11:17:23 PM
Who knows. At least Borrell is still there. I've seen Inglethorpe play many times for Orient. He was a very cultured player (for that level) and was invariably always Orient's best player and most creative talent. I wish him well.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on November 27, 2012, 11:37:33 PM
Edward, I'll put another question(s) to you.

Do you think, given that by Rodgers' own words (not mine) that we don't have the players (anywhere near enough according to what Rodgers said just the other day) to play the way Rodgers ideally wants, that's it a good idea to attempt to anyway, irrespective of lacking the right players to do so?

I think we need to implement Rodger's ideas onto the squad as soon as we can as it will benefit in the long term. If we wait for the right players to come along then the players we have now will only stagnate and will not develop. We need keep on developing the players here.

Do you not think that it would be an idea to play to a system that suits what he has?

Well yes, but I do believe the core unit in our squad:- Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Lucas, Allen, Gerrard and Suarez can play in any system because they have the ability and talent to do so. The likes of Suso and Sterling are born to play in Rodgers system. But getting those individuals to play in a cohesive unit takes time to understand and learn. I mean we only have 1 fit striker so we can only play the system we are using now!

Looking at the group of players at his disposal, and considering the following methods of play we've seen in the last four seasons, which is the way of playing that would suit this group of players?

a) The way we played in Benitez's last season.
b) The way we played in Hodgson's half season.
c) The way we played in Dalglish's caretaker half season?
d) The way we played in Dalglish's full season as permanent manager?

Those core of players I mentioned are good enough to be played in any system. Clearly Hodgson's system didn't work for us. With Dalgish it wasn't the system which was the problem, but his transfers and man management skills which were lacking. Our 4-2-3-1 under Rafa has been the best system we've had since we won the title. That system made us one of the most feared teams in the world and we had the players that fit that specific system. But again I believe it was the manager rather than the system which cost us in the end.

How are we going to bridge the time gap between now and when we have the group of players that Rodgers thinks are suited to his methods?

 Quite frankly I don't think we can. I don't expect us to be in the top 4 this year or next. However I believe the squad is certainly capable of challenging for that position. It's going to take time and there will be mistakes made, such is life, but its how you learn from them that matters. So far I am convinced Rodgers has learnt from his mistakes and I can see the squad progressing this season too, albeit slow, but I can see progress being made.

Don't forget, it's not any of us that states that the players aren't the ones needed, those words have come from the manager. They are his words, no one else's.

There is a core of players that is good enough to play for any team in the league, that we have in our squad. With others such as Sterling, Suso, Borini, Enrique showing improvement, Shelvey, Wisdom and others we have a nucleas to build on. I totally agree that to get the best out of the youngsters it needs a blend of experience and youth in the team and small steps of integration. Unfortunately we aren't in the position to do this and as such we've been weaker for it. We need 7 players imo added to this squad to really challenging for 3rd and 4th consistently week in and week out.  IMO we are 5-7 years from challenging for the league and rightly Rodgers is correct in saying he may not be where when we witness the fruits of his work done today.

Hope that answers your questions.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2012, 11:52:18 PM
Who knows. At least Borrell is still there.

Thankfully, and hopefully the likes of Inglethorpe can learn from Borrell. We need to start coaching the coaches and attempt to develop a long line of coaches as well as players. That would help bring stability and then continuity as that's one of the things we've lacked over the last 20 years.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2012, 12:10:56 AM
Hope that answers your questions.

Cheers for your answers, Edward. What worries me is that Rodgers, at least by his public statements, maybe lacks the belief that he really does have the players required. I thought it was strange to talk in that way and also come out with the numbers he did, as it gives the impression (at least to me) that he thinks we are not just lacking in player numbers (which we obviously are) but within who we've got, we are lacking in the number required or expected from the squad we have, of the players capable of playing to his methods.

Also, I wonder whether he is spelling out the fact there are many incoming transfers needed as a way of warning the fans there is little or no money in reality for this window and that that may also be the case in next season's windows also, and that anyone brought in is only going to make a small dent in what is really needed.

"If we can get in the quality in the final third we need to support what we have, then there will be enough to keep the team moving forward,’ said Rodgers.

But I am not so sure that will happen in January. This year the club wanted to balance the books and see where we are at."


There has been a gradual damping down of expectations over the last few weeks. He doesn't seem as bullish about bringing players in going by his recent comments as he did a few weeks ago. I'll try and find the comments I'm refering to when I have a bit more time. Also it seems a bit of backtracking has been going on since the comments made by Werner also. It's not the first time Werner has said one thing and the reality has proved to be somewhat different.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on November 28, 2012, 01:59:42 PM
Well I did tell you that we only have around £10m to play with.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on November 28, 2012, 02:35:16 PM
Cheers for your answers, Edward. What worries me is that Rodgers, at least by his public statements, maybe lacks the belief that he really does have the players required. I thought it was strange to talk in that way and also come out with the numbers he did, as it gives the impression (at least to me) that he thinks we are not just lacking in player numbers (which we obviously are) but within who we've got, we are lacking in the number required or expected from the squad we have, of the players capable of playing to his methods.

I noticed that as well, but I've also heard him say we need players to come in "to help the current players". That I think, signals faith in the current squad while at the same time acknowledging the difficulties and challenges it faces.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2012, 03:28:51 PM
There has been a gradual damping down of expectations over the last few weeks. He doesn't seem as bullish about bringing players in going by his recent comments as he did a few weeks ago.

Also it seems a bit of backtracking has been going on since the comments made by Werner also. It's not the first time Werner has said one thing and the reality has proved to be somewhat different.

different yanks, same old story.   Never believe their sugar-coated PR words (edward and me agree on this aspect).

as for Rodgers - as a managerial youngster, he is a kitten in his bosses' hands. 

they call the shots, and he dances like a puppet.  What else can he do.  He has no position of strength to argue from.   

it was pretty obvious this summer, one of the key motivating factors behind their search for a new manager, was to avoid senior highly experienced men.  A young yes-man was the order of the day.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2012, 03:42:39 PM
Well I did tell you that we only have around £10m to play with.

I don't remember stating that I doubted you or the information in itself, however, that said, the net difference will be:

a) Negligible

b) Help us take a decent sized step forward

c) The improvement required to the squad (if used properly) to challenge for the Europa League place

d) The improvement required to the squad (if used properly) to challenge for the top four
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2012, 03:46:42 PM
I noticed that as well, but I've also heard him say we need players to come in "to help the current players". That I think, signals faith in the current squad while at the same time acknowledging the difficulties and challenges it faces.

"Help" is a very diplomatic way of putting it. We all know of "the difficulties and challenges" but what is going to change to allow those problems to be addressed and hopefully overcome, and see the club move forard on a consistent basis, closing the gap on those ahead, whilst playing the style of football that achieves the three points more often than it doesn't.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2012, 03:49:40 PM
it was pretty obvious this summer, one of the key motivating factors behind their search for a new manager, was to avoid senior highly experienced men.  A young yes-man was the order of the day.

The last line could equally apply to Ian Ayre.

Why do I always feel dizzy from going around and around in the same circular direction when talking about the owners, senior administration and potential for constant forward movement that closes the gap on those ahead of us?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2012, 03:55:30 PM
The last line could equally apply to Ian Ayre.

Why do I always feel dizzy from going around and around in the same circular direction when talking about the owners, senior administration and potential for constant forward movement that closes the gap on those ahead of us?

true.

without top-notch senior people in Anfield (starting at chief executive level), the club will continue to struggle.

our owners are so detached, and do not seem to comprehend or care, sufficiently about the club.

I sometimes wonder if they genuinely realise the magnitude and stature of the club they bought. 

They need to buck up their ideas or sell on.

I wonder if the fans could start a worldwide union and buy the club, or even half of it.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2012, 04:05:38 PM
true.

without top-notch senior people in Anfield (starting at chief executive level), the club will continue to struggle.

our owners are so detached, and do not seem to comprehend or care, sufficiently about the club.

I sometimes wonder if they genuinely realise the magnitude and stature of the club they bought. 

They need to buck up their ideas or sell on.

I wonder if the fans could start a worldwide union and buy the club, or even half of it.

This approach may work in baseball, though I've honestly no idea on that score, but it's not what is required with this particular 'piece' of their portfolio.

What I don't understand is why the 'appeared' reluctance to appoint people at the club that makes up for their total lack of knowledge and insight. The 'investment', not 'cost', would pay dividends, allowing them to be as distant as they seem to want to be, whilst taking their 'investment' forward, whilst understanding that 'fans' are very different to 'customers' in their requirements.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2012, 04:09:51 PM
What I don't understand is why the 'appeared' reluctance to appoint people at the club that makes up for their total lack of knowledge and insight. The 'investment', not 'cost', would pay dividends, allowing them to be as distant as they seem to want to be, whilst taking their 'investment' forward, whilst understanding that 'fans' are very different to 'customers' in their requirements.

yes, it makes no sense.

reading between the lines, I have the feeling that they had no real interest in an investment outside America, until someone advised them of our difficulties and how cheaply we could be acquired.

their lack of interest ever since, suggests no real genuine initial interest.

I wonder, if in their hearts, the idea was to quickly sell the club on (at major profit).



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 28, 2012, 04:18:21 PM
yes, it makes no sense.

reading between the lines, I have the feeling that they had no real interest in an investment outside America, until someone advised them of our difficulties and how cheaply we could be acquired.

their lack of interest ever since, suggests no real genuine initial interest.

I wonder, if in their hearts, the idea was to quickly sell the club on (at major profit).
Just feels very un-LFC like now.

No real aspirations or ambition, anymore.

Thought of going to WHL tonight and getting a win just the figment of
some gullible fans imagination who needs to be slapped down and
lectured on the reality of the situation.

A dope in charge who was promoted above his station. Sad.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2012, 05:02:08 PM
A dope in charge who was promoted above his station. Sad.

runs for the trenches, with helmet under arm.

 :)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2012, 05:17:01 PM
runs for the trenches, with helmet under arm.

 :)

Oh Hell.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2012, 05:23:50 PM
Oh Hell.  :D

incoming scuds,

watch out for yankee friendly fire....red on red.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2012, 05:26:56 PM
Ed really couldn't just let the grizzly bear sleep could he. "Let's use this 'ere stick to see if it's ticklish."  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2012, 07:12:14 PM
Ed really couldn't just let the grizzly bear sleep could he. "Let's use this 'ere stick to see if it's ticklish."  :D

 ;D ;D ;D


Ed's just back from chairing the peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2012, 07:16:31 PM
;D ;D ;D


Ed's just back from chairing the peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

Ed, chair in one hand whip in the other, trying not to laugh at Netanyahu's 'wrap around'.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2012, 07:20:53 PM
Ed, chair in one hand whip in the other, trying not to laugh at Netanyahu's 'wrap around'.

Ed, amongst the Pales delegation, pulling a pin on somebody;s vest, and the whole conference going up.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 28, 2012, 07:22:17 PM
Ed's just back from chairing the peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
I tried my best.  :(

Told the Israelis to give tanks to the Lord and
suggested to the Palestinians that the situation
is hardly rocket science!   :P
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2012, 07:25:51 PM
give tanks to the Lord


 :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2012, 07:28:01 PM
I tried my best.  :(

Told the Israelis to give tanks to the Lord and
suggested to the Palestinians that the situation
is hardly rocket science!   :P

(http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/01/22/1225992/883450-les-patterson.jpg)

what could go wrong, when you and Sir Les Patterson host peace talks, Ed.

We will find peace.   Tanks be to god.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2012, 07:31:43 PM
(http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/01/22/1225992/883450-les-patterson.jpg)

what could go wrong, when you and Sir Les Patterson host peace talks, Ed.

We will find peace.   Tanks be to god.

Our new CEO - once he sobers up..
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
Our new CEO - once he sobers up..

 :D :D :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 30, 2012, 10:06:53 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9712779/Liverpool-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-has-the-right-idea-but-the-wrong-players.html
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on November 30, 2012, 04:12:25 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9712779/Liverpool-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-has-the-right-idea-but-the-wrong-players.html

Absolutely brilliant article. Cheers for that Ray!!!

Quote
Over the past 10 years Liverpool have had no single vision to cheer. They have had good teams and players, certainly, but no guiding manifesto. Benítez’s entertainment high-point in 2008-09 concealed a general urge to negate the opposition, which Chelsea’s current interim manager was especially good at in Europe.

That's why I said Brendan Rodgers as early as 2009. It's also the reason I detest judging him on a dozen results. Those who do so doesn't seem to understand where the club is and where it needs to go before such judgements can be made.

Onwards, upwards we go and I tell you folks we will finish comfortably above the 60-point marker.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on November 30, 2012, 04:12:55 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9712779/Liverpool-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-has-the-right-idea-but-the-wrong-players.html
Fair enough ASI there is an alternative viewpoint,
but every manager will tell you "if only I had the right
players"
. The job of gaffer at LFC is not some
extended if only...

Being a manager in the real world is about much more than
that. You have to earn the right (Brendan speak) to sign the
players you think you need.

It's not a passive thing, you earn the respect and trust of
supporters. He has 8 games now to demonstrate his
management skills (above and beyond having a philosophy).
There's pressure...Fantastic, that's what the job is all about.

Sometimes I wonder what sort of manager the fans want, is
it someone who can't operate under pressure (because that's
what the game is about at the highest level, clear decision making
under extreme pressure).
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 01, 2012, 06:02:41 PM
As I've asked before, if Rodgers doesn't have the 'right players' then where do we go and what do we do until such time as he has had enough time and backing to put in place a squad he feels is 'suited' to his philosophy.

There could be quite a lot of intervening time, but we can't just shrug our shoulders during it.

Managers everywhere have to work with 'what they've got' at any and every given point in their tenure at a club. What they make of who they've got decides their fate and where they rate.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on December 08, 2012, 10:12:07 PM
http://www.merseyreds.com/2012/12/08/brendan-rodgers-caught-taking-a-cheeky-glance-at-lfc-tvs-claire-rourke-cleavage-haha-video/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=brendan-rodgers-caught-taking-a-cheeky-glance-at-lfc-tvs-claire-rourke-cleavage-haha-video&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 08, 2012, 10:20:04 PM
This'll go down well.  ::)



I thought he'd left his watch at home at was trying to take a quick glance to see if Claire had got one on.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on December 08, 2012, 10:54:11 PM
Who can blame him?! Claire Rourke would certainly get it  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 10, 2012, 07:18:39 PM
This manager is looking unlikely to be our next manager, however................................ .....

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scotland-legend-kenny-dalglish-on-sfa-1480930 (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scotland-legend-kenny-dalglish-on-sfa-1480930)

I would love to this. No transfer budgets to waste, just pick and coach players. I would love to see how he could get on in those circumstances. It would also be nice to see Scotland with a proper 'name' as their manager instead of SPL 'barely knowns'.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 17, 2012, 05:21:51 PM
From:http://www.thetilehurstend.com/2012/11/29/3705598/nearly-3-years-on-was-sir-john-right-to-sack-brendan-rodgers (http://www.thetilehurstend.com/2012/11/29/3705598/nearly-3-years-on-was-sir-john-right-to-sack-brendan-rodgers)

"But when he was Reading manager his tenure was regarded as a failure by most fans and is largely disregarded by pundits when they cover him with praise about the ‘great job that he did at Swansea.’ Pundits rarely mention the years of hard work put in by Roberto Martinez and continued by Paulo Sousa to put in the foundations of a passing game before Rodgers took over at Swansea.

The obvious conclusion that most fans took from the failure of Rodgers' reign was the fact he tried to play a new style of football. This new style was so different from the Steve Coppell (traditional British 4-4-2, high tempo, two proper wingers) style that Reading didn’t have the players with the right qualities to be able to play the tiki-taka style that Rodgers wanted to implement.

But even with bringing in over half a team he still didn’t manage to achieve success through implementing his style on a squad so used to one style of play. This led to many fans being frustrated as the players would pass the ball sideways and backwards, keeping possession but not creating many chances and not taking the few that were created. Even though possession was high, results were hard to come by. With only 21 points from 21 games (five wins, six draws and ten losses) Reading were sat 21st in the league, only three points clear of the relegation zone.
"

From the second comment: "BR took on a Reading side and rather than evolve it he tried a revolution right from the off – I remember the first game all kids and no end product. "

The only point I'm trying to make is that all these points above from  Reading fans' viewpoint of Rodgers' tenure there are the same points that have been raised multiple times on here about his tenure with us.

Is it signaling a man prepared to learn from and adapt or a man that has one idea and is determined to make it work somewhere. Can he learn, does he learn, does he even want to learn?

There are worrying signs, whether we want to see them, or acknowledge them is up to every individual.   
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 17, 2012, 09:45:34 PM
good article.

sums up all we have been saying, Tes, since the summer.

I see from Ed's posting of Tompkins latest article, that even he is now starting to see the light.

hopefully one or two in this arena will now start to offer a more balanced analysis.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 17, 2012, 11:39:25 PM
good article.

sums up all we have been saying, Tes, since the summer.

I see from Ed's posting of Tompkins latest article, that even he is now starting to see the light.

hopefully one or two in this arena will now start to offer a more balanced analysis.

Independantly, we all have thoughts. Then we post them on here. Curiously, we see others, not from our club but from Swansea and Reading where Brendan has managed, as I say again, curiously, independantly, have had the same thoughts. It justifies nothing, nor do we seek justification, but coincidences none the less we see. Eerie, or what? 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 17, 2012, 11:44:03 PM
Independantly, we all have thoughts. Then we post them on here. Curiously, we see others, not from our club but from Swansea and Reading where Brendan has managed, as I say again, curiously, independantly, have had the same thoughts. It justifies nothing, nor do we seek justification, but coincidences none the less we see. Eerie, or what?

yes, we find the same sentiments expressed from supporters of his previous clubs.

the Reading sacking was easy to hide, but in a big job (like the one at Anfield), he has nowhere to run.  He is seen tactically, as being totally naked.

 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on December 18, 2012, 01:30:33 PM
As an aside I find your avatar rather disgusting.

Your connotations between Rodgers and that avatar of him turning him into some sort of spastic is plainly disgusting. But each to their own.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 18, 2012, 01:38:38 PM
As an aside I find your avatar rather disgusting.

Your connotations between Rodgers and that avatar of him turning him into some sort of spastic is plainly disgusting. But each to their own.

actually edward, I like to use photoshop.   

And my avatar resulted from merging photographs of Martin Luther King and Brendan Rodgers. 

The resulting image looks like some hispanic mafia boss from new jersey  imho


 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on December 18, 2012, 02:05:30 PM
actually edward, I like to use photoshop.   

And my avatar resulted from merging photographs of Martin Luther King and Brendan Rodgers. 

The resulting image looks like some hispanic mafia boss from new jersey  imho

Still, it's disrespectful no matter how you try to cloth it. But as Ed said, each to his own.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 18, 2012, 09:05:28 PM
Still, it's disrespectful no matter how you try to cloth it. But as Ed said, each to his own.

but did Ed really say that, or did someone else say it? 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 18, 2012, 10:33:45 PM
Tom Werner on Brendan Rodgers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYFhgGg2A5M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYFhgGg2A5M)

The interesting part is around 40s.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 18, 2012, 10:47:01 PM
Tom Werner on Brendan Rodgers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYFhgGg2A5M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYFhgGg2A5M)

The interesting part is around 40s.

interesting interview.

our owners sure did not expect to be spending most of the season in the bottom half of the table.  Werner, as he says, expected to improve upon Dalglish's time in charge.

i cannot imagine how rodgers can hope to survive, come May.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on December 18, 2012, 11:04:26 PM
interesting interview.

our owners sure did not expect to be spending most of the season in the bottom half of the table.  Werner, as he says, expected to improve upon Dalglish's time in charge.

i cannot imagine how rodgers can hope to survive, come May.


He mentions enthusiasm a lot. Enthusiasm...Enthusiasm

I just picture the ghost of Anfield past standing over Werner with a baseball bat.

http://www.hark.com/clips/krsglykwjy-a-man-becomes-preeminent
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 18, 2012, 11:31:38 PM
interesting interview.

our owners sure did not expect to be spending most of the season in the bottom half of the table.  Werner, as he says, expected to improve upon Dalglish's time in charge.

i cannot imagine how rodgers can hope to survive, come May.

If they were to use Dalglish's finishing position as the level from which improvement is expected, what happens if we finish 8th (with fewer points) or worse?
If they sack Rodgers that's 3 managers they've sacked in as many seasons - that would be pure madness. Who would want to take over, especially when you're expected to better 8th (after £50M+ Summer spend) with less in transfer funds (as it stands at present, January window not withstanding).
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 19, 2012, 12:44:43 AM
He mentions enthusiasm a lot. Enthusiasm...Enthusiasm

I just picture the ghost of Anfield past standing over Werner with a baseball bat.

http://www.hark.com/clips/krsglykwjy-a-man-becomes-preeminent (http://www.hark.com/clips/krsglykwjy-a-man-becomes-preeminent)

 :D    enthusiasms, that's what we need in here (*sings* if ya wanna be a record breaker)

If they were to use Dalglish's finishing position as the level from which improvement is expected, what happens if we finish 8th (with fewer points) or worse?
If they sack Rodgers that's 3 managers they've sacked in as many seasons - that would be pure madness. Who would want to take over, especially when you're expected to better 8th (after £50M+ Summer spend) with less in transfer funds (as it stands at present, January window not withstanding).

yes, I always say that a club that is always sacking managers, has the wrong people in charge at the top.

it's a very expensive process too (and that is one language that the yanks will comprehend)

I cringe that the fool is to be given funds for another transfer window.

sturridge and ince will put us back even further.  They will cement our mid-table oblivion.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 19, 2012, 01:17:24 AM
sturridge and ince will put us back even further.  They will cement our mid-table oblivion.

You can just see FSG's plan now. Bring in Ince and sell Sterling for the £16M spent on his replacement and Sturridge.

They talk too much about sell on values. Ideally, you buy a player and keep him until he gets just over the graphical brow of the hill in terms of consistent ability and form. Depending on transfer inflation you expect to get less than you bought him for but the reason he's been kept (and gone beyond his peak value) is because he's contributed consistently to the team. Multiply by eleven and you have a successful team.

You don't wait until they hit their best years, which is peak valuation and then sell. Unless you can find another player as good but younger and a time away from his peak age and value point then you make the team worse, and if there is a player nearly as good, a few years away from his peak, and who's cheaper, why would anyone want your older, more expensive player.

They don't have transfer fees in American sport and you can tell. They've already misunderstood how to play the transfer game to maximise success in a sporting sense. Anyone would think one of them had Hedge Fund management experience.

Worldwide appeal of the sport, opportunity to make money by buying and selling the commodities involved - business as normal, but not in any sporting sense. No wonder they don't bother to understand the game or appoint those that do, they've learnt all they need to know.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 19, 2012, 08:42:35 PM
If they sack Rodgers that's 3 managers they've sacked in as many seasons - that would be pure madness. Who would want to take over, especially when you're expected to better 8th (after £50M+ Summer spend) with less in transfer funds (as it stands at present, January window not withstanding).

Ergo - I don't want the mnager sac.........ah, fcuk it, people will make of it what they want anyway, and that wall's in danger of collapse.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 19, 2012, 09:22:57 PM
:D    enthusiasms, that's what we need in here (*sings* if ya wanna be a record breaker)

Cue trumpet solo.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 28, 2012, 09:21:31 AM
ok, with Big Brendan's days coming to a close, just who will our yankee owners now go for.

possibilities for the liverpool job.

henning berg
roy keane
neil lennon
john lennon
ray wilkins
ally mccloud
peter reid
paul sturrock
howard wilkinson
brian kidd
tony adams
iaian dowie
alan shearer
steve kean

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 28, 2012, 09:22:59 AM
shortlist of 5

tony adams
alan shearer
steve kean
henning berg
roy keane
graeme souness
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 28, 2012, 01:31:04 PM
shortlist of 5

tony adams
alan shearer
steve kean
henning berg
roy keane
graeme souness

Tony Adams, got to be. It would be like being the Keystone Cops of football, but at least it would be genuinely funny.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 28, 2012, 02:22:31 PM
Tony Adams, got to be. It would be like being the Keystone Cops of football, but at least it would be genuinely funny.  :D

(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Clubs/Club%20Home/2009/1/30/1233349097028/Tony-Adams--001.jpg)

sure would be funny to watch his antics on the touchline, and his after match interviews.

the opposition would never figure him, or his tactics out.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on December 28, 2012, 06:02:52 PM
Decent article, a BS-free zone!

http://www.thefalsenine.co.uk/2012/12/28/being-brendan/
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 28, 2012, 07:12:35 PM
Decent article, a BS-free zone!

http://www.thefalsenine.co.uk/2012/12/28/being-brendan/ (http://www.thefalsenine.co.uk/2012/12/28/being-brendan/)

thanks for the url, Ed.  Twas a good read.

I liked the quotes he uses too.......Rodgers comes out with some crackers....perfect ammo for journalists and football supporters.

"When you’ve got the ball 65-70% of the time it’s a football death for the other team. We’re not at that stage yet but that’s what we will get to. It’s death by football. You just suck the life out of them."
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 28, 2012, 07:14:53 PM
”Every player I see as a son.”
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 28, 2012, 07:15:23 PM
“I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I was born with a silver shovel.”
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 28, 2012, 07:15:56 PM
“You train dogs, I like to educate players.”
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 28, 2012, 09:05:29 PM
Tony Adams in Azerbaijan: It's not perfect, but it could be worse... we could be in Burnley

Tony Adams in Azerbaijan - I keep being reminded of Alan Partridge based out in the career wilderness of BBC Radio Norwich   :D

full article and pics (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1337561/Tony-Adams-Azerbaijan-It-worse--Burnley--EXCLUSIVE.html#ixzz2GNmEO0e9)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 28, 2012, 10:43:09 PM
Decent article, a BS-free zone!

http://www.thefalsenine.co.uk/2012/12/28/being-brendan/

Taken from the above:

Liverpool’s record in their previous 38 Premier League matches makes for miserable reading: 11 wins, 10 draws and 17 defeats, 51 goals scored, 51 conceded and a total of 43 points accrued.

If 2012 was a season in its own right Liverpool would be hovering just above the drop zone, a harrowing consideration.


Thankfully Rodgers kept us up. Dalglish would have had us relegated.  ???

Rodgers has repeatedly referred to this notion of ‘death by football’; valuing the ball, keeping possession and nullifying the opposition. It is an admirable philosophy but it is not the be all and end all. Shoehorning Liverpool into a 4-3-3 has not worked, particularly for Steven Gerrard, and Rodgers needs to learn to adopt pragmatism when his doctrine is not working. He is too scared to betray a dogma that he is almost slavishly devoted to, when a pragmatist would observe that 4-2-3-1 is more suitable to the players available.

That's it really. In a nutshell. Sums up what we keep saying.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 28, 2012, 10:47:18 PM
Alan Partridge might be a useful new boss at Anfield.

Mind you, he isn;t big on foreigners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=hPQHHP7dfjU&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=hPQHHP7dfjU&NR=1)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 28, 2012, 11:41:20 PM
Brendan Rodgers has no worries about his future at Liverpool

December 28, 2012 6:22pm


Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers is paying no attention to comparisons being made about his record and that of Roy Hodgson when he was at Anfield.

Defeat at Stoke on Boxing Day meant the Northern Irishman has exactly the same points haul - 25 - from 19 league matches as Hodgson did when he was removed from his role in early 2011.

But Rodgers says the fact he was sought out by Liverpool's owners Fenway Sports Group, and given time to rebuild their squad, means he feels no pressure over his future on Merseyside.*

"I have been brought in here to do a job and the owners have been brilliant with me. I don't think about them (the comparisons) to be honest, it is not something I am overly worried about," Rodgers said ahead of their trip to QPR on Sunday.

"The backing I've had from supporters has been incredible considering and that is the most important group really.

"They recognise what is going on, they understand like I would understand the frustration.

"Any comparisons I don't really focus on and it is difficult to compare the two groups because there is a lot of youthfulness in this group but yet still a lot of growth left in the team.

"There is a lot of progressing to do because we're 10th in the table and this is a club which wants to be at the very top but the only way you can do that is by reconstruction of the work and building the squad.

"That is what is going to take a bit of time. I always say it's like a good meal - I'm not a great cook but a good meal takes a wee bit of time but also to offer a good meal you need good ingredients.**

"That is something we will do over time and hopefully put a nice meal on the table for supporters."


http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8365202/ (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8365202/)

*We all know what comes after pride.

I can't understand how he can say he's been given time. He could say that after 5 or 6 years, not 5 or 6 months. Or does he think those that condemn their fellow fan for not 'giving him time' are wrong, as he says himself he's 'been given time'.  ???

**I think I'm going to have to start another 'explain this to me' thread on this comment. So if you're a sh!t chef it doesn't matter how good the ingrediants you're still going to add the best cut of steak to soux pastry and deep fried lettuce leaves, and season it with nutmeg and bicarbonate of soda and cover it in a peanut butter and marmite flavoured angel delight.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 29, 2012, 12:21:23 AM
With the QPR game looming large, here's another interesting stat - we need to get all three points as a draw will see us on 20 points, the same amount as Hodgson got after 20 games when he was sacked. Hodgson also won the group in the EL, but with a game to spare and got knocked out of the League Cup only one round earlier (3rd as opposed to 4th this season), also at home.

Graeme Souness in as caretaker manager after Saturday.  8)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on December 29, 2012, 12:51:35 AM
"That is what is going to take a bit of time. I always say it's like a good meal - I'm not a great cook but a good meal takes a wee bit of time but also to offer a good meal you need good ingredients."

"That is something we will do over time and hopefully put a nice meal on the table for supporters."[/i]
Geez the verbal's gone a bit batty now!

Please say that wasn't the gaffer of LFC speaking...please...pretty please?...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 29, 2012, 01:44:54 PM
Geez the verbal's gone a bit batty now!

Please say that wasn't the gaffer of LFC speaking...please...pretty please?...

When he starts cooking the sardines off Cantana's trawler then we know it's all over.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on December 29, 2012, 02:14:38 PM
When he starts cooking the sardines off Cantana's trawler then we know it's all over.

And Lo! It did come to pass that I Brendan did perform a miracle of creating a feast for the multitude from a few loaves of bread and 2 fish.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 29, 2012, 03:51:45 PM
And Lo! It did come to pass that I Brendan did perform a miracle of creating a feast for the multitude from a few loaves of bread and 2 fish.

and the feast was good and Brendan smiled down.

And he said it shall come to pass, that we will get to the mountain top and see the promised land.  A land of milk and honey. 

BTW  we can but hope that her majesty recognises Brendan's abilities come the new year honours.  Sir Brendan has a nice ring to it.

Or maybe, bypass Sir and go for sainthood.   St Brendan, giver of life, hope and endless words.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 29, 2012, 11:44:47 PM
Brendan admitting he got it wrong?

"“When you are playing Stoke, there are three key things you focus on in your preparation: make sure you don’t get done with the long ball and pick up the second ball; you have to get tight on corners; and make sure you are organised for the second and first ball at throw-ins.

“We got done on all three.”
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 29, 2012, 11:53:38 PM
Brendan admitting he got it wrong?

"“When you are playing Stoke, there are three key things you focus on in your preparation: make sure you don’t get done with the long ball and pick up the second ball; you have to get tight on corners; and make sure you are organised for the second and first ball at throw-ins.

“We got done on all three.”


I think Brendan should forget about pre-game dressing room advice, to his players - and instead conduct his team talks via the media. 

Perhaps a live broadcast to the nation before each game. 

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 29, 2012, 11:55:03 PM
We must give Suarez Champions League hope if he's to stay at Anfield, says Liverpool boss Rodgers

By Joe Bernstein  29 December 2012


Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has admitted the club need to give striker Luis Suarez hope of a Champions League challenge if they want to keep him at Anfield beyond the summer.

While Rodgers enjoys a good relationship with Suarez, who has scored 14 times this season, he knows a fourth season without appearing in Europe’s top competition would be hard for the Uruguay striker to take.

Spanish clubs would be interested in the £40million-rated forward, who turns 26 next month. Atletico Madrid will be seeking a replacement for Radamel Falcao at the end of the season, with the Colombian set to move on, while Barcelona need a successor for the ageing David Villa. Suarez’s wife, Sofia, lived in Barcelona after her family moved there from Uruguay.

Liverpool travel to QPR on Sunday in mid-table after defeats against Aston Villa and Stoke in their last three games and Rodgers knows they must climb the table to encourage his big players his ‘project’ will work.

Liverpool have not played in the Champions League for three seasons, after finishing seventh, sixth and eighth in the Premier League.

‘The players need to feel there is hope,’ said Rodgers. ‘I don’t want people who don’t want to be here, but top players like Steven Gerrard, Daniel Agger and Luis Suarez have all committed to the cause. They obviously feel there is hope that the model will work.

‘The reality is we’re a team that haven’t been challenging for the last number of years and it is going to need that wee bit of time. I believe we are going down the right route because, if you’re not going to invest as heavily, you have to build.’

Suarez turned down the opportunity to join Juventus last summer and signed a five-year deal at Anfield which carries a reported £40m buy-out clause.

But Rodgers can’t discount his best player leaving if Suarez feels a top-four finish is beyond Liverpool in the foreseeable future.

‘That is something that you can never tell,’ said the Liverpool manager.’


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2254752/Luis-Suarez-needs-Champions-League-football-says-Brendan-Rodgers.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2254752/Luis-Suarez-needs-Champions-League-football-says-Brendan-Rodgers.html)

So that's Luis off in the Summer. Commence charm offensive.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 30, 2012, 12:00:22 AM
I think Brendan should forget about pre-game dressing room advice, to his players - and instead conduct his team talks via the media. 

Perhaps a live broadcast to the nation before each game.

I don't see why he had to come out with this. It either paints him in a bad light ie the players ignored his instructions and training sessions or he's indirectly blaming the players whilst saying "I did prepare them correctly, see, this is what we'd done in training".
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 30, 2012, 12:09:46 AM
I don't see why he had to come out with this. It either paints him in a bad light ie the players ignored his instructions and training sessions or he's indirectly blaming the players whilst saying "I did prepare them correctly, see, this is what we'd done in training".

typical of an arrogant man, who wants to always appear right and cannot genuinely accept fault.

but as you say, Tes, the end result is that he is blaming the players.

I can imagine that players are pretty fed up with him.  I knew enough when I read Downings words a few weeks ago.  In one sentence, he hinted that he (downing) was perplexed - one day he had a part to play in the team, one day he was out on his ear, etc. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 30, 2012, 12:18:08 AM
In one sentence, he hinted that he (downing) was perplexed - one day he had a part to play in the team, one day he was out on his ear, etc.

And now he's back in again, despite just the one good performance since being welcomed back. It will be interesting to see what happens in his next team selection.

One day he's passing off defeats as 'one of those things I told you would happen in a situation like ours' but then after 2 bad defeats in 3 games he's expecting consistency.

Selection changes, players being played in different positions (Shelvey, Suso, Downing, Enrique, Borini) whilst supposedly learning a whole new way of playing, and he expects consistency. He's not exactly doing all he can to help propagate consistency.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 30, 2012, 12:25:41 AM
And now he's back in again, despite just the one good performance since being welcomed back. It will be interesting to see what happens in his next team selection.

One day he's passing off defeats as 'one of those things I told you would happen in a situation like ours' but then after 2 bad defeats in 3 games he's expecting consistency.

Selection changes, players being played in different positions (Shelvey, Suso, Downing, Enrique, Borini) whilst supposedly learning a whole new way of playing, and he expects consistency. He's not exactly doing all he can to help propagate consistency.

yes, total hypocrisy on his part - he wants consistency from others - but is all over the show himself.

the bloke is way out of his depth. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on December 30, 2012, 05:13:20 AM
We must give Suarez Champions League hope if he's to stay at Anfield, says Liverpool boss Rodgers

By Joe Bernstein  29 December 2012


Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has admitted the club need to give striker Luis Suarez hope of a Champions League challenge if they want to keep him at Anfield beyond the summer.

While Rodgers enjoys a good relationship with Suarez, who has scored 14 times this season, he knows a fourth season without appearing in Europe’s top competition would be hard for the Uruguay striker to take.

Spanish clubs would be interested in the £40million-rated forward, who turns 26 next month. Atletico Madrid will be seeking a replacement for Radamel Falcao at the end of the season, with the Colombian set to move on, while Barcelona need a successor for the ageing David Villa. Suarez’s wife, Sofia, lived in Barcelona after her family moved there from Uruguay.

Liverpool travel to QPR on Sunday in mid-table after defeats against Aston Villa and Stoke in their last three games and Rodgers knows they must climb the table to encourage his big players his ‘project’ will work.

Liverpool have not played in the Champions League for three seasons, after finishing seventh, sixth and eighth in the Premier League.

‘The players need to feel there is hope,’ said Rodgers. ‘I don’t want people who don’t want to be here, but top players like Steven Gerrard, Daniel Agger and Luis Suarez have all committed to the cause. They obviously feel there is hope that the model will work.

‘The reality is we’re a team that haven’t been challenging for the last number of years and it is going to need that wee bit of time. I believe we are going down the right route because, if you’re not going to invest as heavily, you have to build.’

Suarez turned down the opportunity to join Juventus last summer and signed a five-year deal at Anfield which carries a reported £40m buy-out clause.

But Rodgers can’t discount his best player leaving if Suarez feels a top-four finish is beyond Liverpool in the foreseeable future.

‘That is something that you can never tell,’ said the Liverpool manager.’


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2254752/Luis-Suarez-needs-Champions-League-football-says-Brendan-Rodgers.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2254752/Luis-Suarez-needs-Champions-League-football-says-Brendan-Rodgers.html)

So that's Luis off in the Summer. Commence charm offensive.

Unbelievable idiocy...can you imagine if we lose to QPR, Sunderland and Man Utd and it's mid January and a bid comes in?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on December 30, 2012, 08:25:07 AM
Question for Tes...can Suarez still play in the Champions league this season?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 30, 2012, 02:48:44 PM
I believe so.

When we signed him, he had played in the CL for Ajax but because Ajax had then dropped into the EL, he was cuptied.

He hasn't played in the CL and as he won't be going to a team in the same competition he should be free to play. Also, I don't think being cup tied or not would be a consideration for a team interested in him. He's available for the bulk of their games and all the other CL games for the duration of the contract he signs.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 30, 2012, 03:03:04 PM
it will be very difficult for Rodgers to survive a defeat today at the bottom placed club.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 30, 2012, 03:19:39 PM
I believe so.

When we signed him, he had played in the CL for Ajax but because Ajax had then dropped into the EL, he was cuptied.

He hasn't played in the CL and as he won't be going to a team in the same competition he should be free to play. Also, I don't think being cup tied or not would be a consideration for a team interested in him. He's available for the bulk of their games and all the other CL games for the duration of the contract he signs.

2011/2012

18.07 As a rule, a player may not play in a UEFA club competition (i.e. UEFA
Champions League and UEFA Europa League, but not UEFA Super Cup) for
more than one club in the course of the same season. Exceptionally,
however, a player who has been fielded in the first, second or third qualifying
round of the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League is entitled to
play in the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League for another
club as from the group stage, provided that his former club did not qualify for
the group phase of either the UEFA Champions League or the UEFA Europa
League;
moreover, as from the start of the round of 16 (round of 32 for UEFA
Europa League), a player can be registered in accordance with paragraphs
18.17 to 18.20 below. For the avoidance of doubt, a substitute player who
has not been fielded is entitled to play for another club competing in the
UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League in the course of the
same season, provided that he is registered with the UEFA administration in
accordance with the present regulations.


2012/2013

18.07 As a rule, a player may not play in a UEFA club competition (i.e. UEFA
Champions League and UEFA Europa League, but not UEFA Super Cup) for
more than one club in the course of the same season. Exceptionally, however,
a player who has been fielded in the first, second, third qualifying round or the
play-offs of the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League is entitled
to play in the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League for another club as from the group stage.
Moreover, as from the start of the round of 16, a player can be registered in accordance with paragraphs 18.18 to 18.21 below.
A substitute player who has not been fielded is entitled to play for another club
competing in the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League in the
course of the same season, provided that he is registered with the UEFA
administration in accordance with the present regulations.

Notice the bit they miss out "provided that his former club did not qualify for
the group phase of either the UEFA Champions League or the UEFA Europa
League."
And in addition the knockout rounds also.

Additionally, taken from: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/24032010/58/champions-league-uefa-relax-rules-cup-tied-players.html (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/24032010/58/champions-league-uefa-relax-rules-cup-tied-players.html)


If a player's club is eliminated and he signs for a new club by the end of the summer transfer window on September 1 he can play for his new club in either competition.

"If he is not signed by the end of the summer window, he can move in the January window."

The one stipulation that remains is that clubs can add up to three new players in January, only one of whom will be eligible if they have previously played in the qualifying rounds.

That is the clause that makes him eligible, I'm sure.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 30, 2012, 03:57:57 PM
QPR v Liverpool starting teams: Brendan Rodgers sent home with a virus

http://sportsnewsireland.com/soccer/soccer_irish/qpr-v-liverpool-starting-teams-brendan-rodgers-sent-home-with-a-virus/ (http://sportsnewsireland.com/soccer/soccer_irish/qpr-v-liverpool-starting-teams-brendan-rodgers-sent-home-with-a-virus/)

He's been hacked. That explains everything.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 30, 2012, 11:14:01 PM
previous reds chased Trotsky all the way to Mexico.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 31, 2012, 01:19:53 AM
previous reds chased Trotsky all the way to Mexico.

Meanwhile Brendan has the trots, just across the hall to the littlest room.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 31, 2012, 01:25:27 AM
Meanwhile Brendan has the trots, just across the hall to the littlest room.

Pascoe gave Brendan a run for his money, all the trots desperate to get to the toilet first.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 31, 2012, 02:08:24 PM
Although it was the bottom team, who made Fulham look like Barca, it was good to see that the coaching staff could step in, despite only one of them being in the changing room at half time, and get the team to perform the way we should 'expect' to perform against the bottom team in the league, whether home or away.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 31, 2012, 04:54:48 PM
Although it was the bottom team, who made Fulham look like Barca, it was good to see that the coaching staff could step in, despite only one of them being in the changing room at half time, and get the team to perform the way we should 'expect' to perform against the bottom team in the league, whether home or away.

until we appoint a top manager in the summer, I think the present lot should stay out of the dressing room, and just let the lads get on with it.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on December 31, 2012, 05:03:21 PM
until we appoint a top manager in the summer, I think the present lot should stay out of the dressing room, and just let the lads get on with it.

Dude, I've way less faith that a combination of Ayre/the owners would recognise a top class manager if he knocked on their collective doors. We desperately need the next appointment to be a competant, football knowledgable CEO, and/or some football people appointed to the board.
How they think they can run a football club without anybody who's an expert in the field in which the business operates is truly beyond me. I dread to think who they would consider appointing next, whenever that is.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 31, 2012, 05:12:40 PM
Dude, I've way less faith that a combination of Ayre/the owners would recognise a top class manager if he knocked on their collective doors. We desperately need the next appointment to be a competant, football knowledgable CEO, and/or some football people appointed to the board.
How they think they can run a football club without anybody who's an expert in the field in which the business operates is truly beyond me. I dread to think who they would consider appointing next, whenever that is.

agreed, Tes.

I heard this week a story, that as long as Ayres was in charge, Rafa would never be back as Liverpool manager.  I do not know if this is true or not. 

I think Ayres needs to be moved over (to his correct position, as marketing manager).

With a top CE in place, we can then start to show some footballing intelligence at the top of the club.

I want Ayres gone, before any new managerial appointment.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on December 31, 2012, 06:39:00 PM
agreed, Tes.

I heard this week a story, that as long as Ayres was in charge, Rafa would never be back as Liverpool manager.  I do not know if this is true or not. 

I think Ayres needs to be moved over (to his correct position, as marketing manager).

With a top CE in place, we can then start to show some footballing intelligence at the top of the club.

I want Ayres gone, before any new managerial appointment.

I find it incredible and bizarre that a group can invest nearly 400 million in a project that they little understand. If you went into any pub in liverpool (non evertonian mind) you'd surely get a diverse spectrum of opinion that could aid you , let alone ask experts of the game...
I know FSG saved the club from the 2 carpetbaggers, but that should'nt mean that everyone is in such awe fo them that they're frightened to speak up and voice an opinion opposite to FSG's.
Have FSG just been unlucky that because of the relief/malaise from a huge proportion of supporters/local experts that when they voice an idea all they get is keen, nodded heads in response?

If it's true that Ayres was the one stopping them even speaking to Rafa, then how can a non football person have so much power at the club? Dear god the more you hear Liverpool Football Club is like the blind leading the blind! 
Did Ayres stop others being considered? Where does he get his opinions from? I've spoken to Liverpool supporters still voicing the media crap abour rafa (fat spanish waiter et al) so if they can do it and conveniently forget our constant top 4 and number 1 in Europe stats, then surely Ayres who's wined and dined
 the media for info etc can fall for the same bullshit?
If he has allowed experienced football people to be passed over, then sorry but moving him to marketing manager is too good for him, get rid. He's damaged the club.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on December 31, 2012, 06:54:54 PM
I've spoken to Liverpool supporters still voicing the media crap abour rafa (fat spanish waiter et al) so if they can do it and conveniently forget our constant top 4 and number 1 in Europe stats, then surely Ayres who's wined and dined
 the media for info etc can fall for the same bullshit?
If he has allowed experienced football people to be passed over, then sorry but moving him to marketing manager is too good for him, get rid. He's damaged the club.

I have no idea if the story was true or not.  And if true, it was unclear exactly who had the issue (rafa or ayres).

But the fact that Rafa was not even considered for interview, means someone very high up holds no love for Rafa.

I have said it for long enough, we need a big brush to sweep the yanks and ayres out.  Ayres is good at marketing, nothing more, nothing less.  And I'd demand to see what our scouting department have been up to.  I think a few heads should roll there too.

If I was in charge, Rodgers and Martinez would never even have been considered for interview, farless been appointed.  They are simply midtable material, always have been, always will be.  They are nowhere near close to being good enough to run a top club.

And our transfer policy these past few years has been nothing short of a scandal.  Absolutely ridiculous.  Massive sums of money squandered.    Top players sold for a pittance, or allowed to leave for free, and replaced by mid-table rubbish, costing fortunes.

The yanks have to start asking major questions of Ayres.  If they don;t, then the Anfield faithful are going to start asking major questions of them, come April and May.  And it won;t be pretty.


 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 01, 2013, 12:20:10 AM
Apparently Philip Nash the outgoing finance director played a big part in the Standard Chartered and Warrior deals. Don't know how true it is though.
Warrior chose to overpay to get a foothold in the European 'soccer market'. I doubt there'll be a repeat.

Our marketing manager (or whatever his desk actually says) is their guy from the parent holding group. How much experience does he have of dealmaking outside of North America? How much knowledge does he have of what's on offer corporately outside his home (astro)turf?

There's simply no point (whether warranted or not) talking about Rodgers' position until other changes are made that will allow for any action they may choose to make to actual have a point to it. Under the current administration or rather in it's current form, it's very possible we'd end up in a much worse situation.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 17, 2013, 10:06:21 PM
I saw a terrific quote about Rodgers today: "The problem our Brendan has is this: being a young manager, he has to win things with the sort of players he can attract before he can attract the sort of players who will win things."

Which can be used either in defence of him, or is one of the points and reasons some of us had against an appointment of his ilk, not just Rodgers specifically.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on January 18, 2013, 02:09:39 AM
Klopp:

"I do not know what Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers was thinking. However, playing him as a number ten is not the best solution in my opinion."


http://www.turkish-football.com/news_read.php?id=4034
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on January 18, 2013, 06:51:59 AM
Klopp:

"I do not know what Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers was thinking. "


http://www.turkish-football.com/news_read.php?id=4034

Klopp mate, you're not the only one...
Can't use German footballer of the year Sahin.
Can't use Kuyt who's scored 12 goals this season.
Can't use Coates. South American Young player of the year...

Can only use players who he's worked with.
He can only play one way.
And if that 'way' can't adapt to the Premiership?

Lo! I see no ice! Full speed ahead!

p.s. Even football 365 are calling him Brent. Brentan Rodgers doesn't know what he's doing.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 18, 2013, 10:28:30 AM
Klopp knows what he's talking about.   

Yes, bizarre use by Brent of such a good player. 

But the bloke has no idea, period (as the yanks say).

e.g. to dismiss Kuyt (supposedly to lower our wage bill) and then 6 months later be looking to bring in the exceptionally expensive Wesley Sneider, is beyond bizarre.   

I think Brent, Pam Ayres, and Laurel and Hardy are making it up as they go along.  Policy on the hoof.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on January 18, 2013, 03:48:00 PM
Klopp mate, you're not the only one...
Can't use German footballer of the year Sahin.
Can't use Kuyt who's scored 12 goals this season.
Can't use Coates. South American Young player of the year...

Can only use players who he's worked with.
He can only play one way.
And if that 'way' can't adapt to the Premiership?
Agree and unless I'm mistaken Lawro was pretty
forthright in his assessment of Allen:

Joe Allen yet to convince

"Joe Allen is a decent footballer but I don't think anyone else would have paid the money that Liverpool did for him. Because it was Brendan Rodgers, who managed him at Swansea, I have to say Swansea have been very clever and did very well to get £15m.

"In Liverpool's midfield, Lucas is the better player. Allen is the link-man, passing the ball around, but Lucas can do that and get his foot in. And I cannot remember seeing Allen pass anyone in for a chance yet. People tell me he will become more attacking. I hope they are right but I am yet to be convinced."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21063979

I mean one wonders to what degree our league position
is self-inflicted. Sure there's an argument (it's been done
to death by BR) that Sterling is a kid. However it becomes
tiresome when we go to Old Trafford and come away
talking about the experience these young players are
getting i.e. is it wise to persist with Allen (an inexperienced
young player himself) ditch Sahin in such a set-up when
results in key games suffer.

Arguably there's a BR agenda at play that compromises his
initial selections and it has to be wondered when this will
change and results for LFC at all costs become the priority.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 22, 2013, 11:16:57 PM
Swansea City buy into Michael Laudrup's vision of cutting to the quick



The one problem with a successful manager, as Swansea City know from first-hand experience, is that it is a matter of time before other clubs start sniffing around. Roberto Martínez and Brendan Rodgers have both been prised from the Liberty Stadium in recent years and, with Swansea on the brink of a place in the Capital One Cup final and enjoying themselves in the Premier League, it is hardly surprising that Michael Laudrup's name is being mentioned in connection with the biggest jobs in Europe.

Chelsea, who go into Wednesday night's Capital One semi-final second leg at the Liberty Stadium 2-0 down, and Real Madrid, whom Laudrup won the last of his five La Liga titles with as a player after a glittering spell with Barcelona, have both emerged as possible destinations for a man whose managerial stock has risen considerably during his short time in South Wales.

An ambitious and exciting appointment in the wake of Rodgers's departure to Liverpool in the summer, Laudrup has proved to be much more than a sexy name. Through the combination of some shrewd acquisitions in the transfer market – shrewd barely does it justice in the case of Michu – and subtle tactical changes to the easy-on-the-eye team that Rodgers moulded, Laudrup has turned Swansea into a more incisive attacking unit going forward and a tougher team to break down at the other end.

The 4-3-3 formation favoured by Rodgers has, more often than not, evolved into a 4-2-3-1 under Laudrup, with the attacking wide men encouraged to come infield, link up and play two- or three-touch, rather than hug the touchline and run at full-backs. Arguably the biggest change is the pace of Swansea's buildup. With Rodgers in charge, Swansea would shift the ball back and forth across the back four in their own half patiently waiting for a chance to pull the opposition out of position. Under Laudrup, the players are told to look for a forward pass much earlier.

Ashley Williams, the Swansea captain and central defender, provides a case in point. This season Williams has made, on average, 49 passes a game. Last season the figure was 70. It is a huge difference and what Laudrup envisaged during an interview with the Guardian in pre-season.

"What is the most difficult thing when you start with the ball in the back four? It's to give it to somebody who is facing the opponent's goal," Laudrup said. "Sometimes we have to play forward to give it back. But every pass is for a reason, always with the idea to penetrate."

If there was a degree of scepticism among some players about elements of Laudrup's approach at the outset – which is always going to be the case when a popular manager moves on — the standard of performances and results across the last three months in particular (during which Swansea have suffered only three defeats in 19 matches and won at Anfield, the Emirates and Stamford Bridge) has made it easy for the squad to buy into the vision of a 48-year-old Dane who is still regarded as the best player in training.

While it is easy to understand why leading clubs could be looking at Laudrup, it is much more difficult to imagine him jumping up and down at the prospect of managing Chelsea or Real Madrid.

Laudrup's approach to management is coloured by everything he achieved as a player and also his desire to enjoy life outside of football. He has said "you won't see me on the bench when I'm 60", spoken of his desire "to do other things" and openly conceded: "I don't have that ambition to think: 'Oh, one day I would like to go to the top.'"

He explained that he saw what being in charge of Barcelona did to Pep Guardiola, his former team-mate and a close friend. "I played with him for four years and I know him quite well as a person. I wasn't surprised [when he left]," Laudrup said. "He gives 100% and he's also a thinker. I also sometimes think a lot, where we can improve. And when you think a lot, you become tired. Here is one thing, imagine Barcelona: every three days you play against a team that wants to play the game of the year and beat you. You have players and a lot of egos. You see [Pep] when he started and then you see him after four years. I said to him: 'How old are you now?'"

Laudrup, in other words, has plenty of reasons to be content with life at Swansea, especially when there is a trip to Wembley on the horizon. Not that he is taking anything for granted against Chelsea.

"Of course this game is important to me but it's because I know how important it is to everyone else," Laudrup said. "In the first game we knew it was going to be tough but we hoped for a good result; we got an extraordinary result. But everyone realises there is still a long way to go."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/22/swansea-city-michael-laudrup (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/22/swansea-city-michael-laudrup)

I've been very impressed with the little tweaks Laudrup has made to Swansea's playing style.

As the article says they don't pass for the sake of it, look to turn the opposition around quicker and are harder to score against.

Hopefully, we can evolve to be more pragmatic and with adding more pace, give ourselves the option of playing on the counter if the need arises. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 22, 2013, 11:32:06 PM
Thanks for posting that, Tes.  very interesting article.

To paraphrase Bob Paisley, when he said to Alan Kennedy (after a poor performance):  "They shot the wrong bloody Kennedy!"

Maybe we employed the wrong bloody Swansea manager!


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on January 23, 2013, 11:39:52 AM
This seems to be worthy of a mention because of the obvious turn around with some players...


'Brendan Rodgers' decision to hire the man they call the 'brain mechanic', Dr Steve Peters, at the tail end of November. Some of you will have recognised the name immediately. For those who are unfamiliar with the good doctor, Peters is the sports psychiatrist who was seen as central to the overwhelming success of the British Cycling squad in recent years.

When plotting the road to success for the cyclists, their lauded manager Dave Brailsford sought to assemble a team of experts not just to manage the athletes - but to support them in every conceivable way, both mental and physical.

Brailsford is a great believer in the idea that a focus on small details can bring numerous incremental gains, the kinds of gains that can make the difference in top level sport. Peters was headhunted to strengthen the 'mental architecture' of the likes of Chris Hoy and Victoria Pendleton, and if their testimony is anything to go by, he succeeded in furnishing them with a critical mental edge.

Brendan Rodgers holds similar beliefs to Brailsford - and without the money to compete in the transfer market with the league's big guns, feels he must explore other ways to chip away at their advantage. In making the appointment, the Liverpool manager explained that with so much emphasis in football being placed on technical, tactical and physical training, the mental side of things can be ignored.

Peters has been hired to address this issue. As a psychiatrist, he will delve deeper than the sports psychologists that are now commonly used by football clubs and do more than just coach positive thinking techniques. Peters focuses on identifying flaws in an athlete's mental architecture, flaws that when the pressure is on will undermine any positive thinking technique and inhibit the athlete's performance. The brain mechanic offers an enabling approach that helps athletes manage the way they operate under pressure, with the emphasis on differentiating between emotional and logical thinking. The logical part of the brain, according to Peters, is what an athlete must access to enhance performance; the emotional, irrational part of the brain, the source of doubts that foster inhibition and cloud decision making, must be switched off.

Definitively ascertaining whether an athlete's performance is improving because of psychiatric consultation is extremely difficult - something Peters freely admitted to Brailsford when initially asked to work with the cycling squad. But according to Peters (in an interview for the Leaders in Performance organisation last year) Brailsford "accepted that while some things can't be measured, you can still recognise the outcomes. That outcome may not be directly attributable to the psych work but it correlates with it. In other words when you start seeing trends and correlations, it's clear that it's working".

Could this explain the improvement we are seeing in Henderson, Downing, Enrqiue - and even in Joe Cole (now back at West Ham)? Henderson's brilliant goal and Downing's wonderful assist in Saturday's thrashing of Norwich are obvious examples of growing confidence. But pehaps the longer-term trend has been a discernible change in attitude in both players. For far too long, both played in fear - concerned about abuse from the stands, they kept things simple, did everything easy, kept the ball red. But neither was really impacting the game - neither was doing what they were bought to do. Downing's inhibitions became all the more glaring when you compared his efforts to the fearless, positive play of Raheem Sterling.

But in recent months, you can see a change, most marked in the willingness of both players to try things, to be positive, to affect the game. Are these the kinds of outcomes that Peters talked about with Brailsford? Who knows for sure - but there is a correlation, at least in terms of time, with Peters' appointment by Rodgers and the improved form of the two England internationals (and cole and Enrique).

If Peters had not gained renown with the all-conquering cycling team, his appointment might just be seen as more hocus-pocus from Rodgers. But given his reputation, the man who earlier in his career spent 12 years working to make dangerous psychotics less of a threat to society, might well be at least partly responsible for making Downing and Henderson more of a menace to Premier League opponents.'

http://www.football365.com/f365-features/8425430/F365-Feature
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 23, 2013, 01:06:15 PM
Can't we just hypnotise players into thinking they are someone else, like making Downing think he was Giggs in his prime, or getting Skrtel to think he's Hyypia and Allen into thinking he's Graeme Souness.  ???
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on January 23, 2013, 01:48:32 PM
Can't we just hypnotise players into thinking they are someone else, like making Downing think he was Giggs in his prime, or getting Skrtel to think he's Hyypia and Allen into thinking he's Graeme Souness.  ???

And Suarez that he is Jari.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 23, 2013, 09:27:29 PM
And Suarez that he is Jari.

I'd prefer a fit Suarez to an injured Jari, but I take your point.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on January 24, 2013, 10:25:48 AM
I'd prefer a fit Suarez to an injured Jari, but I take your point.

Very very close call I'd say.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 24, 2013, 05:26:53 PM
Very very close call I'd say.

Imagine what we could do with a fully fit and in his prime Jari, playing just off Suarez and Sturridge. Goals and assists galore.
Jari was always one of my favourite non-Liverpool players before we signed him. Houllier certainly knew what was what with free transfers. Granted, he was a touch unlucky with Babbel's illness and Jari's injuries, but still.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on January 24, 2013, 05:35:04 PM
Imagine what we could do with a fully fit and in his prime Jari, playing just off Suarez and Sturridge. Goals and assists galore.
Jari was always one of my favourite non-Liverpool players before we signed him. Houllier certainly knew what was what with free transfers. Granted, he was a touch unlucky with Babbel's illness and Jari's injuries, but still.

It was a half joke, mind, in the old "play Jari" mould if you follow my poor Swedish humor. I would say I agree tho. He's by far the most talented player to ever come out of the Eastern half of the Kingdom. There wasn't a lot I liked with GH by snapping up free transfers really was a talent of his. Was it Leverkusen away in the Cl QF of 2002 he almost took us past them on his own. One of our best and talented forwards on this side of the millennium indeed.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on January 24, 2013, 06:20:44 PM
And it was GH's fault Jari left!!

I loved Litmanen. A beautiful player to watch.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 24, 2013, 07:34:48 PM
And it was GH's fault Jari left!!

I loved Litmanen. A beautiful player to watch.

And Fowler. And Diouf instead of Anelka.

Houllier could be odd in bringing in or having talented players at the club and then not fully trusting them. 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 24, 2013, 08:57:15 PM
Houllier was very stubborn......he stubbornly refused to make obvious changes, preferring to stick with his favourites, even in the midst of things clearly not working.  He seemed to relish being stubborn, and would ignore the media and the pundits.    His arrogance won him no friends.

I finally had my fill of him, when in the white heat of battle, he took off Didi Hamman in a vital second-leg CL quarter-final in Germany.   After that bizarre substitution, the Germans walked  cleaned through our midfield at will.  Unforgivable.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on January 24, 2013, 09:24:51 PM
Yep. From 99 to 2002 I was pro GH. From 02 to 04 I was Anti GH and it started with that Leverkusen game and all that 11 games from greatness crap.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 24, 2013, 09:59:26 PM
bloddy ell, Edward and me agree on something!

that is my exact timeline too (re turning against Houllier)


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 24, 2013, 10:17:20 PM
He started to belive his own hype, not long before his heart problems.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 24, 2013, 11:06:12 PM
He started to believe his own hype, not long before his heart problems.

agreed.

ironically enough, of he had retired after the heart scare, he would most likely have gone down as one of our finest managers.

but he came back, and we then eventually really saw the real man.....negative football, deceitful use of data (fans could see for themselves that the thing wasn't working).
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 24, 2013, 11:20:00 PM
agreed.

ironically enough, of he had retired after the heart scare, he would most likely have gone down as one of our finest managers.

but he came back, and we then eventually really saw the real man.....negative football, deceitful use of data (fans could see for themselves that the thing wasn't working).

Definately. The seasons before his heart attack, the dismantling of the Spice Boys squad, re-building it bringing in the professionalism and more modern methods and the development of the academy buildig and whole structure, alongside the treble year, had him marked down as a huge success and the architect of our comeback. If Moores had the guts and common sense (Houllier's health was much more important than his ego and pride) to let him go for his own good, things may have been different going forward. We may have built on the treble year etc and Moores may not have had to sell out at the exact time he did, so we won't have had the toxics buy us when we did.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 24, 2013, 11:55:23 PM
Interesting bit about Rodgers approach to the medical side of things, and also Gerrard and Torres, from Peter Brukner, who was the guy Rafa brought in: http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/kickoff/130124/dr-peter-brukner-studio-190091 (http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/kickoff/130124/dr-peter-brukner-studio-190091) from about 21 mins 28 secs.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 25, 2013, 12:01:43 AM
Definately. The seasons before his heart attack, the dismantling of the Spice Boys squad, re-building it bringing in the professionalism and more modern methods and the development of the academy buildig and whole structure, alongside the treble year, had him marked down as a huge success and the architect of our comeback. If Moores had the guts and common sense (Houllier's health was much more important than his ego and pride) to let him go for his own good, things may have been different going forward. We may have built on the treble year etc and Moores may not have had to sell out at the exact time he did, so we won't have had the toxics buy us when we did.

yes, things may have worked out differently, if Moores had not allowed Houllier to return.

that treble year would have meant Houllier would have gone down in club folklore.

PS - I am starting to see more of this terminology, going forward
:D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on January 25, 2013, 11:28:42 AM
bloddy ell, Edward and me agree on something!

that is my exact timeline too (re turning against Houllier)

Can I join the family??? :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 25, 2013, 09:04:19 PM
Can I join the family??? :D

 :D

I will have to ask Edward.   We're shooting pool later and discussing who the new manager should be.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on January 25, 2013, 09:14:04 PM
Hahaha  :D

Summer of 2002 really fucked us though. Instead of spending our money on Anelka and Duff we spent it on Diao, Diouf and Cheyrou!!

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 25, 2013, 09:19:02 PM
wow, second big area of agreement between you and me, Edward!   ;)

I too was a big fan of Duff, and peeved when we didn;t bring him in.  And yes, Anelka would have been my choice too.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 26, 2013, 12:31:34 AM
wow, second big area of agreement between you and me, Edward!   ;)

I too was a big fan of Duff, and peeved when we didn;t bring him in.  And yes, Anelka would have been my choice too.

Duff had his injury problems, but doubting the class of the lad.

We missed out on Anelka twice. I'd have preferred Anelka to Morientes too.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 27, 2013, 02:03:45 AM
Duff had his injury problems, but doubting the class of the lad.

We missed out on Anelka twice. I'd have preferred Anelka to Morientes too.

Duff could have been big at Liverpool.....shame about his injury woes.

anelka and diouf was a big choice by houllier.....as fans, we had feck all knowledge of how shi.tty diouf was as a human being.....but our scouts SHOULD have known ahead of time.  We did know that anelka could be a troublesome customer. 

yes, morientes was past his sell by date.  but it was probably worth the risk.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on January 27, 2013, 09:05:46 PM
Personally i blame Zeus/Odin/Jahweh/mithras etc....
we did not get the run of the green...
the referees decisons were a joke...
if we had a better squad then we could have done Oldham...if it wasn't for Zeus etc and Apollo we would have had the likes of kuyt, maxi and bellers at the club..
but no...
it were nowt to do with the shine-a-light on the pitch
it were down to the gods...

positivity....all is well in the state of liverpool...

i see no iceberg! full speed ahead!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 27, 2013, 10:18:31 PM
Personally i blame Zeus/Odin/Jahweh/mithras etc....
we did not get the run of the green...
the referees decisons were a joke...
if we had a better squad then we could have done Oldham...if it wasn't for Zeus etc and Apollo we would have had the likes of kuyt, maxi and bellers at the club..
but no...
it were nowt to do with the shine-a-light on the pitch
it were down to the gods...

positivity....all is well in the state of liverpool...

i see no iceberg! full speed ahead!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doesn't help when your goalkeeper can't catch. He must be the only Aussie male who's no good at a sport played with a ball.

Positivity's pointless, what's needed is realism and objectivity. The owners had a huge descision to make with the appointment of Dalglish's successor. 4 managers in 4 seasons was already a joke. They went down the route they did. Unfortunately until we can get an administration at the club worthy of the club's name then we're not in the position to change course again.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 27, 2013, 10:36:19 PM
until we can get an administration at the club worthy of the club's name then we're not in the position to change course again.

the yanks need to appoint people to run the club properly or else sell up.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 27, 2013, 11:04:53 PM
the yanks need to appoint people to run the club properly or else sell up.

Dude, we've been saying it from day one, haven't we and they're a quarter of the way through their third year, with no more sign of it happening than on day one.

What is the point of their ownership of a business about which they know nothing of the nature of the business? They can't run any of the football aspect themselves and the business side will be held back as the business side relies heavily on and to a degree is entwined with the football side. So why not put in the people who can?

It simply makes no sense. They're undermining they're own investment. It's not like they're going to look weak or foolish if they bring in people to run it for them. They look more weak and foolish by not doing so.

I'm starting to think like you. It's not that I think that they're bad owners, just ill equipped and simply not the right owners. Maximise the investment, maximise the club's potential and pulling power worldwide whilst it still exists or hand over to someone who will at least do everything to try.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Martinmarx on January 27, 2013, 11:16:17 PM
Dude, we've been saying it from day one, haven't we and they're a quarter of the way through their third year, with no more sign of it happening than on day one.

What is the point of their ownership of a business about which they know nothing of the nature of the business? They can't run any of the football aspect themselves and the business side will be held back as the business side relies heavily on and to a degree is entwined with the football side. So why not put in the people who can?

It simply makes no sense. They're undermining they're own investment. It's not like they're going to look weak or foolish if they bring in people to run it for them. They look more weak and foolish by not doing so.

I'm starting to think like you. It's not that I think that they're bad owners, just ill equipped and simply not the right owners. Maximise the investment, maximise the club's potential and pulling power worldwide whilst it still exists or hand over to someone who will at least do everything to try.

What happened? What did I miss?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 28, 2013, 12:18:18 AM
Dude, I'm starting to think like you.

be scared, Martin.  Be very scared!    :D

yes, Tes, it makes no sense to take the approach that the yanks are taking.  I concluded some time ago, that is was arrogance.  And I still feel that is at the core of the problem.  Plus, I am not convinced that they ever set out to buy a premiership club (instead some business friend told them of an emerging opportunity, for the right money, in england).

It is difficult to change an arrogant attitude (and I have seen enough arrogant - and rude - yanks, to last me a lifetime).  Thus my conclusion is that they should sell up.



Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 28, 2013, 12:19:45 AM
What happened? What did I miss?

when you were at the loo, I got a round in. 

Me and Tes are knocking the porter back after today's performance.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 28, 2013, 08:11:35 PM
What happened? What did I miss?

Wipe the sand out of your eyes. It's a mind opening experience.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 28, 2013, 08:14:59 PM
if he's not careful, we'll start calling him Sandy

(singing Sandy, i.e. song from Grease)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 28, 2013, 08:23:06 PM
if he's not careful, we'll start calling him Sandy

(singing Sandy, i.e. song from Grease)

Second line of first verse is apt - "I'm in misery".
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 28, 2013, 08:31:29 PM
Second line of first verse is apt - "I'm in misery".

very apt.

and another line goes:   "I sit, I wonder why-yi-yi-yi"
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 28, 2013, 08:33:23 PM
very apt.

and another line goes:   "I sit, I wonder why-yi-yi-yi"

Dude, how come we both now the lyrics to that song? Look what Rodgers has turned us in to.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on January 28, 2013, 08:37:27 PM
Dude, how come we both now the lyrics to that song? Look what Rodgers has turned us in to.  :D

 :D

I loved that movie, and that long since gone summer (of 1977).

A few years later, must have been 1982 or 83, I recorded the movie on a betamax video recorder we had......I would wind back the movie and rewatch songs like Sandy and Hopelessly Devoted to You.

Careful now, or you'll get me onto Fame and songs like Starmaker, Friday Night and It's Gonna Be a Long Night.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 29, 2013, 05:49:35 PM
Yes, and it will also be a test of whether Brendan talk the talk or walk the walk or both.

(http://www.preciouslittleone.com/images/products/prod_000000_hauck-player-little-world.jpg)


Just so there's no confusion - this is bit of fun and Fowler knows we need it after Sunday. Banter.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on January 31, 2013, 12:53:01 AM
The kids are alright: Rodgers praises youngsters after Arsenal draw but rules out Deadline Day move for Ince



Brendan Rodgers saw his Liverpool side blow a two-goal lead at Arsenal - but praised the maturity of his youngsters.

Following his angry blast in the wake of Sunday's FA Cup defeat to Oldham, Rodgers also backtracked and put the blame for that shock reverse down to HIMSELF.

He said: "Sunday was more my fault than theirs. I'm a great believer in young players, I look at the depth of our squad and put a lot of trust in them.

"The problem is when I put them in and I don't have some of our big players its difficult. And thats how it as on Sunday. But I never had any second thoughts that I would get a reaction."

Goals from Luis Suarez and Jordan Henderson put Liverpool on course for a stunning victory over their rivals for a top-four place.

But two goals in the space of four minutes - from Olivier Giroud and Theo Walcott - earned a point for Arsene Wenger's men.

Meanwhile Rodgers has also confirmed Liverpool were in a straight fight with Southampton for new£8.5million signing Coutinho - but insisted there was always going to be one winner.

He added: "There was big interest from Southampton, but a club like Liverpool will always have a pull for top players, even though we're not where we want to be.

"The history of this club will always get top players to want to come. It's a real coup for us. Inter Milan didn't want to sell him, but thankfully he's chosen to come."

Rodgers also confirmed that Coutinho's signing means he will NOT be making a Deadline Day move for Blackpool midfielder Tom Ince.

He did, however, refuse to rule out bringing the former Red back to Anfield in the future.

Rodgers went on: "We could still have done the deal, but it looks a bit complicated at this stage.

"It's also about affordability as well as we've only got a certain amount of money. If Tom stays at Blackpool in this window it doesn't mean he'll never come to Liverpool."


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-2-2-liverpool-reaction-rodgers-1565388 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-2-2-liverpool-reaction-rodgers-1565388)

So now it's his fault, not 'the youngsters'. Hardly looks good. It looks like he lashed out on Sunday and Monday blaming the youngsters and now it seems he's backtracking.

What I'm trying to figure out is who he regards as 'youngsters'. Sturridge and Henderson played both matches, so are they regarded as youngsters or not?
The only obvious 'youngster' tonight who played on Sunday was Wisdom.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on February 03, 2013, 01:23:17 AM
Anyone know why why Pascoe and not Rodgers did the pre-match presser?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on February 03, 2013, 03:16:15 PM
No escape from grim reality for Rodgers

By Dion Fanning, Irish Independent
Sunday February 03 2013

Brendan Rodgers had been talking beautifully about the progress he is overseeing at Liverpool. He marvelled at the brilliance of Luis Suarez – the term 'false winger' was used impressively.

He spoke at length about the tactical advances of Jordan Henderson. He let it be known that he had been watching the new signing Philippe Coutinho since he was 15 – "another great product to come into the league" – and had talked to his friend Jose Mourinho about him.

He was happy here at the Emirates, talking away, bursting with "real pride" after Liverpool had thrown away a two-goal lead against an Arsenal side that has fragility in its DNA, in front of a crowd that was ready to revolt and a team that knew it.

Rodgers kept talking and we slid down in our chairs as relaxed as if we were in an all-night lock-in, with the sweet soothing sound of bullshit allowing us to believe we were experiencing what David Bowie liked to call the "eternal now".

When the question came it was as if somebody had switched on harsh spotlights and yanked open the blinds to reveal unforgiving sunlight and a brutal dawn. Rodgers was asked if he was concerned that his team had yet to beat a side in the top six (they have yet to beat a side in the top half.) This was reality intruding and it felt bad.

He said he wasn't "overly" worried, even if "you guys keep going on about it". He made this failure sound as if it was just a secondary piece of tittle-tattle, a contract extension or a poor disciplinary record, that the press wouldn't let go.

Anyway, Liverpool should have beaten Manchester City, he said, and if they win at the Etihad today they would have four points from two tough road trips. He is right but he was dealing in abstractions. The elephant in the boot-room is that reality will always break through in football.

Liverpool had a couple of brutal intrusions from reality last week. They lost at Oldham, looking "soft" as Rodgers said. On Wednesday night, Liverpool played brilliantly at times but reality also revealed that there is no killer instinct in the side being created by Rodgers. At Arsenal, they took part in a thrilling game against another side which has lost sight of the ultimate point of football: winning.

Last week, Brendan Rodgers finally took a stand but he took it against the weakest at the club: the young players, with Martin Skrtel thrown in.

Everything Rodgers does suggests that he is not just postponing the moment when he will be judged but, beneath the self-confidence and the projection of authority, that he is worried what that judgement will reveal. His friend Jose Mourinho also projected this authority before he had the CV to match it. When the results and victories came they seemed like the inevitable consequence of all he had been telling the world about himself.

Rodgers has mastered the looking confident bit but it remains to be seen if he can produce a successful side. He has tried to make it seem an irrelevance. When Swansea played in Sunderland last year, Rodgers talked about the game in language that is now familiar.

"It is great for the public here at Sunderland to see us," he said after the game. "They must have been wondering what this team everyone is talking about are all about and now they have seen. We were wonderful. Our intention is always to pass teams to a standstill, but give credit to Sunderland, they defended ever so well when other teams might have wilted." Sunderland had just beaten Swansea 2-0.


His words would be irrelevant if Liverpool didn't play as if they have absorbed his central message. At Boundary Park, at the Emirates and at Old Trafford, Liverpool have performed as if glimpses of spirit and some thrilling football is enough. Even Rodgers seemed to think the Oldham performance had been transformed at a certain point, remarking that Steven Gerrard played as if he had been "dropped in from heaven" when he came on.

Liverpool scored in that time and Gerrard hit the bar but Liverpool were playing a League One side which had won one of its previous nine games. Some doubt was inevitable and to see a transformation in turning a 1-3 scoreline into a 2-3 scoreline makes Pangloss seem like Beckett.

Rodgers then went to the other extreme in criticising the young players, but if a manager must sometimes look ridiculous to protect his players, it is not a good idea for a manager to make his players look ridiculous to protect himself.

By Wednesday night, he was saying "Sunday was more my fault than theirs". By then Liverpool had their pride and he was finding leadership in reliable places, certainly more reliable places than a Brendan Rodgers press conference.

Jamie Carragher will probably start at the Etihad today. At the Emirates, he brought authority to the side. At one point in the first half, Glen Johnson took a knock on the head. Carragher went around the Liverpool players, reminding them of their responsibilities. He then had a quick word with the referee. The referee restarted the game with a drop ball and Arsenal knocked it back to Pepe Reina. The Arsenal fans howled. They believed the ball should have been given back to them.

Carragher is a player who has always been looking for an edge. He seemed less inclined to be consoled by the performance or talk of his pride in drawing against a team that is sixth in the table. Carragher has competed for titles and won the European Cup. In those years, he was at the heart of everything Liverpool achieved. "A manager going into a club would want those guys right behind you," Rodgers said afterwards and he is right.

Rodgers will also point to progress. Liverpool collapsed against Arsenal in August so he saw Wednesday night as a benchmark of how far they have come (Arsenal have nosedived since then).

There may have been signs of progress this season but Luis Suarez has delivered most of them. Suarez plays as if to win is the only thing and he plays with a ruthlessness that is out of step with Rodgers' better-luck-next-time philosophy.

Suarez is making encouraging noises about staying at Liverpool but he is also talking about making a decision in the summer. He is 26, he has scored 17 league goals already this season and he will be wanted by all the top European clubs.

If Suarez leaves then Liverpool's greatest test will be how they replace him. Rodgers has been average in the transfer market.

If Joe Allen has faded (perhaps because he is too closely identified with the manager, Rodgers exempted him from blame for the Oldham defeat), Henderson has grown and Rodgers can take some credit for that.

Yet Liverpool, and presumably Rodgers, were prepared to let Henderson leave the club in August as they tried to find a way of getting Clint Dempsey to Anfield. Henderson refused and Liverpool refused to pay the money for Dempsey. Whoever made that decision, and it wasn't Rodgers, was right.

In the aftermath, John Henry, who has yet to visit Anfield this season, issued a statement declaring FSG's ambitions for the club.

Like many things FSG say, their words had an appeal but the reality is different. Rodgers can talk about the project and the group and the product but Liverpool's future depends less on him than it does on Luis Suarez.

Every year spent away from the Champions League is another year when it becomes harder to attract the players necessary to return to the Champions League.

Rodgers must deal with that and he has managed, in the main, to remove himself from criticism.

There is a feeling that Rodgers is just a proxy, that those who criticise him only use him to further another agenda. This view allows Rodgers off the hook. His mistakes are obvious and need no agenda to be pointed out.

Liverpool has been dominated by feuds in recent years and in the summer FSG decided to go with their instincts. It was a courageous and sensible decision. They wanted to move on from the past and they wanted to create a club where the manager was one of many voices and couldn't cause too much havoc.

Rodgers probably hasn't done much harm at Liverpool. FSG wanted a middle manager to lower the wage bill and the age of the squad without causing too much fuss as they sought to cut costs. They didn't want a manager like Benitez who would always demand more and who would prevent them breaking free of the past. It was an understandable point of view, but there were coaches who could have been pursued, men like Frank de Boer, who would have taken Liverpool forward with more intent than Rodgers.

In blaming the weakest and most marginal at the club last week, Rodgers gave little indication that he is a manager capable of doing more than middle management, despite all his empty rhetoric.

If bullshit is designed to conceal the truth, a point arrives when bullshit reveals it. The truth about Rodgers is that when he talked of the young players after the Oldham game, he was revealing something of himself. When he said they were soft and needed to understand the demands of playing for Liverpool, he was getting closer to the truth. Everything he said about those players could as easily be said of him.

Brendan Rodgers promotes football without a reckoning. In football, there is always a reckoning.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/dion-fanning-no-escape-from-grim-reality-for-rodgers-3375702.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/dion-fanning-no-escape-from-grim-reality-for-rodgers-3375702.html)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on February 03, 2013, 03:27:52 PM
I think this is where we differ Dude to other fans. That reads of side stepping reality and ignoring the obvious.
We prefer to face and deal with the reality, however unsavoury it may be.

It feels like there's still too much idealism of youth, and naivity that comes with the initial inexperience. It's understandable. I'm sure we've all been there at some point in our lives, but the realisation that winning is what 'really' matters, even if it grates against purist instincts has to dawn quickly, for everyone's sake.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on February 03, 2013, 03:28:10 PM
Quote
When Swansea played in Sunderland last year, Rodgers talked about the game in language that is now familiar.

"It is great for the public here at Sunderland to see us," he said after the game. "They must have been wondering what this team everyone is talking about are all about and now they have seen. We were wonderful. Our intention is always to pass teams to a standstill, but give credit to Sunderland, they defended ever so well when other teams might have wilted."

Sunderland had just beaten Swansea 2-0.

more david brent style quotes from our boss.

so much for the Liverpool Way, where humility is key. 



 
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on February 03, 2013, 03:32:32 PM
I think this is where we differ Dude to other fans. That reads of side stepping reality and ignoring the obvious.
We prefer to face and deal with the reality, however unsavoury it may be.

It feels like there's still too much idealism of youth, and naivity that comes with the initial inexperience. It's understandable. I'm sure we've all been there at some point in our lives, but the realisation that winning is what 'really' matters, even if it grates against purist instincts has to dawn quickly, for everyone's sake.

very valid point, Tes.

and with age, comes the value of much experience.  e.g. we have seen these things replay themselves, over and over. 

but I always feel that everyone will be good at something.   

Martin may struggle at football, but maybe (for all we know) he is good at darts, or chess.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Edward224 on February 03, 2013, 06:06:59 PM
Dion Fanning is Pro Rafa anti everyone at LFC. Now. So I take what he says with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on February 03, 2013, 06:30:44 PM
Dion Fanning is Pro Rafa anti everyone at LFC. Now. So I take what he says with a grain of salt.

Maybe, but he's been pretty damning for a very long time, back when Benitez was manager. Irrespective of a journalist's usual slant, every piece should be judged on it's merits.

I'm not sticking up for Fanning just to have a go at Rodgers, so let's not bother with the accusations. Some of what he says is harsh, but some rings true. Leave the personalities out of it and ask yourself honestly if all of it's the complete polar opposite of our reality.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on March 17, 2013, 10:30:20 PM
Noting some dissent from regular supporters:

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/03/rodgers-needs-to-practice-what-he-preaches-2/

A quick mention for someone called Dean Jones (Is it u Marx?  ;D )
who contributed the following to the comments:

Allen & Borini for £26.5 million pound is SHOCKING !!! And don't get me started on
this first season SH*TE ( There both a F*CKING LIABILITY ) Rodgers never learns from
his mistakes,how long is this PR*CK gonna talk up his PATHETIC championship player
( Allen ) HE BRINGS NOTHING TO ARE MIDFIELD ;-( How can are defence be in the top
3 last season,and be SHAMBOLIC this season ( Rodgers backroom jokers need too also f*ck
right off ) ( SUB STANDARD ) I hate this PR*CK more each time he is on the box,talking up
this Mediocre side ;-( I think only give him till Xmas,because he doesn't care about are club ?
He only cares about his tv coverage,The PR*CK must sit at home W*NKING over his interviews...


And they call us negative  ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on March 17, 2013, 10:40:08 PM
Noting some dissent from regular supporters:

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/03/rodgers-needs-to-practice-what-he-preaches-2/ (http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/03/rodgers-needs-to-practice-what-he-preaches-2/)

A quick mention for someone called Dean Jones (Is it u Marx?  ;D )
who contributed the following to the comments:

Allen & Borini for £26.5 million pound is SHOCKING !!! And don't get me started on
this first season SH*TE ( There both a F*CKING LIABILITY ) Rodgers never learns from
his mistakes,how long is this PR*CK gonna talk up his PATHETIC championship player
( Allen ) HE BRINGS NOTHING TO ARE MIDFIELD ;-( How can are defence be in the top
3 last season,and be SHAMBOLIC this season ( Rodgers backroom jokers need too also f*ck
right off ) ( SUB STANDARD ) I hate this PR*CK more each time he is on the box,talking up
this Mediocre side ;-( I think only give him till Xmas,because he doesn't care about are club ?
He only cares about his tv coverage,The PR*CK must sit at home W*NKING over his interviews...


And they call us negative  ;D

there's a lot of truth in his rant though.

 ;D

maybe his delivery mechanism could put it across with a little more sugar-coating, but essentially he speaks the truth.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on March 17, 2013, 10:43:51 PM
Noting some dissent from regular supporters:

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/03/rodgers-needs-to-practice-what-he-preaches-2/

A quick mention for someone called Dean Jones (Is it u Marx?  ;D )
who contributed the following to the comments:

Allen & Borini for £26.5 million pound is SHOCKING !!! And don't get me started on
this first season SH*TE ( There both a F*CKING LIABILITY ) Rodgers never learns from
his mistakes,how long is this PR*CK gonna talk up his PATHETIC championship player
( Allen ) HE BRINGS NOTHING TO ARE MIDFIELD ;-( How can are defence be in the top
3 last season,and be SHAMBOLIC this season ( Rodgers backroom jokers need too also f*ck
right off ) ( SUB STANDARD ) I hate this PR*CK more each time he is on the box,talking up
this Mediocre side ;-( I think only give him till Xmas,because he doesn't care about are club ?
He only cares about his tv coverage,The PR*CK must sit at home W*NKING over his interviews...


And they call us negative  ;D

Now that's what I call balancing things out.

You can just see the spittle flying and covering his screen and keyboard as he wrote that. Maybe that's why he kept pressing the 'a', 'r' and 'e' keys instead of the 'o', 'u', 'r' & 's' ones. I won't even bother with punctuation.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on March 17, 2013, 10:54:36 PM
Noting some dissent from regular supporters:

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/03/rodgers-needs-to-practice-what-he-preaches-2/

A quick mention for someone called Dean Jones (Is it u Marx?  ;D )
who contributed the following to the comments:

Allen & Borini for £26.5 million pound is SHOCKING !!! And don't get me started on
this first season SH*TE ( There both a F*CKING LIABILITY ) Rodgers never learns from
his mistakes,how long is this PR*CK gonna talk up his PATHETIC championship player
( Allen ) HE BRINGS NOTHING TO ARE MIDFIELD ;-( How can are defence be in the top
3 last season,and be SHAMBOLIC this season ( Rodgers backroom jokers need too also f*ck
right off ) ( SUB STANDARD ) I hate this PR*CK more each time he is on the box,talking up
this Mediocre side ;-( I think only give him till Xmas,because he doesn't care about are club ?
He only cares about his tv coverage,The PR*CK must sit at home W*NKING over his interviews...


And they call us negative  ;D

I reckon Dean Jones has got to be Shelvey.  :D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on March 17, 2013, 11:11:22 PM
there's a lot of truth in his rant though.

 ;D

maybe his delivery mechanism could put it across with a little more sugar-coating, but essentially he speaks the truth.
I looked at some of his other comments. I
get the impression he has got an issue or
two with Brendan  ;D

I reckon Dean Jones has got to be Shelvey.  :D
He doesn't like Kenny either...

Rodgers OUT ASAP !!! Worst season in living memory,even worse than
That Clown FOOLGLISH ;-( I know Rodgers is managing LFC,but does he
really have too call himself Ken Dodd & go and buy the DIDDY men ( Allen Borini
Assiadi coutinho ) SHAMBOLIC signings,who are far too lightweight for premier
league...Add too that the pussies in midfield like Henderson downing sterling Suso
Allen Who won't put a foot in,due too them getting hurt ??? This club from boardroom
down too grass roots needs addressing ASAP,or where only gonna be heading one way ?
After ayre & yanks sell Suarez in the summer ( AND THEY WILL ) We will have
Chelsea's reserves attack,pathetic ladyboys midfield,who are too scared too put a foot in ?
And a defence Rodgers BACKROOM JOKERS have DESTROYED...


 ;D
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on March 17, 2013, 11:14:21 PM
I reckon Dean Jones has got to be Shelvey.  :D

 :D :D :D

got me thinking - surely, amongst all the players across the various divisions in england, there must be a few players, who post in forums (under fictional names of course).

like I mean, the temptation would be too much for many - especially those with an axe to grind with the manager, or other colleague/s.

it must happen occasionally - sadly, we will never know.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on March 18, 2013, 07:10:56 AM
Noting some dissent from regular supporters:

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/03/rodgers-needs-to-practice-what-he-preaches-2/


The real problem is that Rodgers obviously can't learn from his mistakes. He's obviously from the Robert the Bruce school of tactics and of the 'if at first you don't succeed' and this only stops when you get the sack in the summer. Looking good for 8th though.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on March 18, 2013, 07:39:03 AM
the manager just does not have it.

his very limited abilities have been badly exposed.

a one wheeled volkswagon has more balance.

sadly, his endless BS drivel, will easily convince our fukwit owners to give him another year.


Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Ed on March 18, 2013, 02:53:59 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFo7XXUCEAAlXQ4.jpg)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on March 18, 2013, 03:34:23 PM
got me thinking - surely, amongst all the players across the various divisions in england, there must be a few players, who post in forums (under fictional names of course).

like I mean, the temptation would be too much for many - especially those with an axe to grind with the manager, or other colleague/s.

I used to know all the key online posters on YNWA and redandwhitekop.  But it's been years since my banishment into the LA wilderness of scrub-grass and low level 10-pin bowling.

but within this forum, let me see.

I reckon Martin is the Brentmaster himself - Sir Brendan Dodgers.

Edward - let me think.  He must be a close sidekick.  Possibly pascoe or Marsh.  But more likely, Ian Ayres.  Someone who has invested a lot in Martin's (err, Brent's) appointment, and has a lot riding on it.

Tes - a true diplomat, objective, fair, likes to keep all onside, capable of solving the problems in Palestine.....letmesee, I reckon he's Rick Parry         ( :D , I know that will get a reaction)

Ed often posts very late at night (often in the middle of the night, 2 or 3am British time), so he has to be someone in America.  Putting on my Sherlock Holmes cap and pipe.  Ed has to be an ex-red, living in yankeeland,  that has now seen through the Brentmaster General, and is getting increasingly frustrated.  I suggest that Ed is actually Steve Nichol.

Barticus - retired, ex red, living in sunny southern european climes.....hmm, need to think this one through.  If he likes golf, might be keegan.  No, keegan would presumably love brent's attack-minded style.  Cannae be keegan.  I need to give this more thought.

Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on March 18, 2013, 05:41:15 PM

Barticus - retired, ex red, living in sunny southern european climes.....hmm, need to think this one through.  If he likes golf, might be keegan.  No, keegan would presumably love brent's attack-minded style.  Cannae be keegan.  I need to give this more thought.

...can i be retired at 42? that'd be awesome...not a fan of golf...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on March 18, 2013, 05:59:58 PM
...can i be retired at 42? that'd be awesome...not a fan of golf...

42, so possibly born in 1971

rob jones, brad friedel, steve harkness, mauricio pellegrino, jari litmanen, don hutchinson, jason mcateer.....all 1971

you're intelligent, so we can rule out Trigger.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on March 18, 2013, 06:24:18 PM
42, so possibly born in 1971

rob jones, brad friedel, steve harkness, mauricio pellegrino, jari litmanen, don hutchinson, jason mcateer.....all 1971

you're intelligent, so we can rule out Trigger.

1970....phil babb?? thats it to chose from????? it wasn't a very good year for football players then...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on March 18, 2013, 06:29:18 PM
 :D   

checking here on michael robinson, ex-red....tick......semi retired in spain....tick

but born in 1958.....too old.

david james was born in 1970 though......do you have funny hair, bart?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on March 19, 2013, 10:28:27 AM
:D   

david james was born in 1970 though......do you have funny hair, bart?

..actually...now that you mention it...
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on March 19, 2013, 11:03:17 PM
David james was born in 1970 though......do you have funny hair, bart?

And big shoes?
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on March 19, 2013, 11:04:38 PM
Barticus revealed:



(http://www.twigsdigs.com/stuff/sideshow/Sideshow_Bob_by_spacecoyote.jpg)
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: barticus on March 20, 2013, 06:50:47 AM
Barticus revealed:



(http://www.twigsdigs.com/stuff/sideshow/Sideshow_Bob_by_spacecoyote.jpg)

It's uncanny!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on March 20, 2013, 11:13:02 AM
Prince Charles, tonight YOU ARE Bob Marley!
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: Tes on March 22, 2013, 12:22:22 AM
Prince Charles, tonight YOU ARE Bob Marley!

Funny you spotted that Dude, when I found the picture I thought the resemblance was rather uncanny.

Matt Groening, eat your heart out. We've got HRH Sideshow Chuck.
Title: Re: our new manager
Post by: the dude abides on March 22, 2013, 01:01:00 AM
Funny you spotted that Dude, when I found the picture I thought the resemblance was rather uncanny.

Matt Groening, eat your heart out. We've got HRH Sideshow Chuck.

 :D

yes, the likeness to charles is uncanny.

i wonder if intentional, on the drawer's part.