Anfield Road - Liverpool FC Forum

Football and lesser sports => Liverpool FC, football, sport => Topic started by: Tes on December 02, 2012, 10:42:29 PM

Title: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Tes on December 02, 2012, 10:42:29 PM
His contract runs until 2014 but it's not a pro contract, which he can't sign until 8th Dec when he's 18. Although he's a regular so far with the season only a third of the way through, does he warrent such a large pay deal of £50K based on a third of a season?
If we had a stronger squad, would he have made the breakthrough in the way he has or is the paucity of the squad the reason he's played so often rather than his current level of talent?

He's got undoubted talent with lots of potential, but what is his true value? The lack of alternatives, the general weakness of the squad and his age are possibly distorting the true position within the squad, or is he simply that good he would have made it anyway, and therefore he is a more valuable player than the other 17, 18, 19 year olds we have, Suso, Wisdom etc?

Are all the factors irrelevant and we have to pay because he is a first team regular, who's even had an England call up, political or not? 

If you vote 'other', please explain what you would do that's different to the few choices offered.
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Ed on December 02, 2012, 11:34:50 PM
Jesus 15-20 is it.

50k to a kid with just over a dozen games.

If he's looking for that he's a prima donna of the
highest order and the quicker we offload him the better.

Either he's serious about his football or not.

I remember a story about Giggs going into AF after
around 20 games and suggesting he deserved a
club car. He was told to get out of the office that he
wouldn't be getting a club bike!  ;D
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Tes on December 02, 2012, 11:56:17 PM
Jesus 15-20 is it.

50k to a kid with just over a dozen games.

If he's looking for that he's a prima donna of the
highest order and the quicker we offload him the better.

Either he's serious about his football or not.

I remember a story about Giggs going into AF after
around 20 games and suggesting he deserved a
club car. He was told to get out of the office that he
wouldn't be getting a club bike!  ;D

We're caught in a tough spot potentially. Firstly, we mustn't overpay as it's about the worse way of handling a young player there is. They think they've 'made it' and lose the desire to learn and keep constantly improving.
However, if we lose him, what message does it send out, do we want to be seen as 'selling club' and how much would it cost us to bring in a replacement with the same potential?

His age can can be a red herring. Kid of that age with the 'potential' he has, being a first team player at that age can place a distorted 'value' on him. How many goals, assists and chances has he created so far?
How does that compare with, say, someone like Walcott?

If he's serious about his football he'll understand that despite getting some first team experience this is still his first pro contract, he has a lot of time in his career ahead of him yet, and it's only right that he proves himself over a longer period than 4 months. Also, he's getting first team opportunities. Would he get that if he went somewhere else or would he end up in the reserves, U21s or out on loan?

The only worry is that his agent advises him based on what (he) the agent is going to make rather than what is best for his footballing development. I think we have to show we want him, we rate his potential, we seem him as a first team player going forward, but at the same time we shouldn't be held to ransom, otherwise it will be Suso and Wisdom. Suso has only recently signed, I wonder what level of salary he signed up to. 
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: the dude abides on December 03, 2012, 02:33:31 AM
15 to 20

the lad (and his adviser) needs his wings clipped.

he has the makings of this era's ryan giggs/john barnes.

but wouldn;t we look like mugs, if we gave him 50 grand a week, only to find that he faded away and was bog standard.

but I knew from dalglish's season, when sterling was pushing in the media to get his first senior games, that we had a difficult customer on our hands.

if I am honest, I don;t think we will be able to hold on to him, beyond the next couple of years.  He will be a star, and demand huge wages and champions league football.  We won;t be offering CL footy any time soon.



Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Martinmarx on December 03, 2012, 09:14:46 AM
15-20 and that's being overly generous to be honest. Whatever he can be, he will be at Liverpool. Join the twits down M62 and you may be happy to warm the bench. Fergie's into his 2nd last season me suspects and what comes thereafter he knows little about whereas at Liverpool conditions will be more stable.

If we lose him, we lose him and I would be gutted but he's hardly that experienced or good we should break the bank and upset the wage structure just to please him. I know it's a scarce commodity in modern footy but some good old fashion humility and moderation wouldn't go amiss on his part.
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Gurdeep on December 03, 2012, 09:54:06 AM
15-20k.  If he and his advisors are not happy then get rid!
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Tes on December 03, 2012, 02:23:37 PM
15-20 and that's being overly generous to be honest.

Martin, I agree and it's why I put it as the very, very top end of we should, at a push, consider, in order to keep him.

I'd prefer he remembered his age, how he arrived at being a regular first teamer, his stats so far, which is something like 1 goal, 2 assists (I think from memory, so that's as unreliable as it gets).

Would we be looking at a player with those stats and getting excited at the thought of going for him? Doubtful, isn't it. So he is what he is. A young lad with huge potential.

If by the age of 21 he's still a first teamer, proving to be invaluable then a leap to £50k would be justified. He's a very young lad with a long time ahead of him in which to repeatedly win the lottery.
At the moment it's about him developing as a player and person. 
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Tes on December 03, 2012, 02:24:44 PM
15-20k.  If he and his advisors are not happy then get rid!

Agreed. He should think himself fortunate to be offered that.
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Edward224 on December 04, 2012, 05:28:38 PM
He's young and has plenty of suitors. If it's around 35-40k/week just sign him for 5 years. There's no transfer fee involved and we can sell him down the road for a nice fee too. We aren't going to sign anyone like him his age/speed/potential for less than 10-15m given our deal team's history.

Lets get some perspective, yes it sucks that an 18 yr old is making more money than we could ever hope to have, but when you've got Joe Cole sitting on 70-90k, it doesn't seem like such a bad deal does it?
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: barticus on December 04, 2012, 06:14:18 PM
He's young and has plenty of suitors. If it's around 35-40k/week just sign him for 5 years. There's no transfer fee involved and we can sell him down the road for a nice fee too. We aren't going to sign anyone like him his age/speed/potential for less than 10-15m given our deal team's history.

Lets get some perspective, yes it sucks that an 18 yr old is making more money than we could ever hope to have, but when you've got Joe Cole sitting on 70-90k, it doesn't seem like such a bad deal does it?

Agreed...if we stick to 15-20k there's every chance that he (or his agent) would get his head swayed by man citeh, chelsea, etc..35 k shows respect and he knows he'll get the games and he'll take that into account...he might have noticed people like adam johnson who was the next big thing, signed for mega money and sat on a bench...if he and his agents are wise he knows that if he plays a blinder for the next 2 years then by the age of 20 he'll be on 80 k plus...
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Ed on December 04, 2012, 06:58:06 PM
Lets get some perspective, yes it sucks that an 18 yr old is making more money than we could ever hope to have
& the next starlet will want the same. Suddenly it becomes
about the money rather than games youngsters can get at
LFC.

35 k shows respect
Accepting 15-20k shows respect for LFC imo.

Either the lad values the first team action he's getting alongside the
likes of Lucas, Luis and Stevie and is in it for the long haul or there's
something wrong with him.

The position should be here's a taster, he's a lot to learn and
we're open to re-negotiation when he's proved himself.
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: barticus on December 04, 2012, 07:29:01 PM
& the next starlet will want the same. Suddenly it becomes
about the money rather than games youngsters can get at
LFC.
Accepting 15-20k shows respect for LFC imo.

Absolutely agree. Morally we should, but the problem is the modern day footballer has no loyalty, as we have seen with owen, mcmanaman, torres, gerrard (until he saw the burning shirts and realised he still lived amongst), and rooney (till he was offered more to the bemusement of fergie which he still hasnt forgotten)...
modern day footballers are whores and they will go for the bling..
morally we should offer 15-20k and morally we'd still be right as sterling and his agent wandered down the road for 3/4 times as much...we'd still lose the player cos we're being tight...
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Tes on December 04, 2012, 08:02:14 PM
Lets get some perspective, yes it sucks that an 18 yr old is making more money than we could ever hope to have, but when you've got Joe Cole sitting on 70-90k, it doesn't seem like such a bad deal does it?

Joe Cole was an established, proven player, proven England International, not a wet behind the ears, still with everything to learn and only selected for England for political reasons. I accept Cole has been a massive failure.

I'm not sure comparing what an 18 year old in the mad world of football is worth with salaries in the real world is a good example of perspective, but I understand what you were trying to say.

Where's the perspective in football when John Terry earns more in a fortnight than Angela Merkel's annual salary?
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Ed on December 04, 2012, 10:09:25 PM
gerrard (until he saw the burning shirts and realised he still lived amongst)
;D

morally we should offer 15-20k and morally we'd still be right as sterling and his agent wandered down the road for 3/4 times as much...we'd still lose the player cos we're being tight...
Yeah and no doubt that's what his advisers are banking on,
I just look at Lucas Leiva and the character he shows and if
Sterling can't show the same he can walk alone!
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: the dude abides on December 04, 2012, 10:12:28 PM
in my day, you had to clean your own boots and cut the grass, and paint the lines.
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Tes on December 04, 2012, 10:15:27 PM
in my day, you had to clean your own boots and cut the grass, and paint the lines.

And that was after you'd earned it cleaning out the dinosaurs.  ;D
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: the dude abides on December 04, 2012, 10:16:53 PM
in my day the dinosaurs, were those who were one year older...........those 2 and 3 years older were practically antics, at death's door.


Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Tes on December 04, 2012, 10:22:50 PM
we'd still lose the player cos we're being tight...

We've got many years and many examples to expunge before we could ever be accused of that.
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: barticus on December 07, 2012, 08:33:45 PM
I see Manure are now being linked with Sterling in January...

http://www.lfconline.com/feat/ed11/united_want_sterling_771942/index.shtml
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Ed on December 07, 2012, 10:28:08 PM
I see Manure are now being linked with Sterling in January...

http://www.lfconline.com/feat/ed11/united_want_sterling_771942/index.shtml
It just doesn't bode well for the long term future of
the player at the club. This should have been a formality
with a lot of goodwill on both sides (e.g. Suso). The fact
that it appears to be descending into a media war of
words reflects poorly on the player and his advisers.

Either he wants to play for LFC or he doesn't. Seriously
if it drags on any longer the answer to that question
is crystal clear. He wants to be a professional but is behaving
like an amateur. If first team football at LFC isn't good enough
for him at 18 and he needs to be paid exorbitant amounts
to put on the red shirt then it's simply not a difficult decision for
the club to make and we move on.

When Luis joined us he was on in the region of 40k
per week (and had done a hell of a lot more in the game).
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Tes on December 08, 2012, 12:42:43 AM
It just doesn't bode well for the long term future of
the player at the club. This should have been a formality
with a lot of goodwill on both sides (e.g. Suso). The fact
that it appears to be descending into a media war of
words reflects poorly on the player and his advisers.

Either he wants to play for LFC or he doesn't. Seriously
if it drags on any longer the answer to that question
is crystal clear. He wants to be a professional but is behaving
like an amateur. If first team football at LFC isn't good enough
for him at 18 and he needs to be paid exorbitant amounts
to put on the red shirt then it's simply not a difficult decision for
the club to make and we move on.

When Luis joined us he was on in the region of 40k
per week (and had done a hell of a lot more in the game).

Exactly. Whilst he's got talent, he's not creating or scoring too many, and he plays in one of three positions that demand those things. Suso is a year older yet appreciates his entire situation. If he goes chasing the cash he's going to lose the opportunity of regular football. His choice.
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Ed on December 08, 2012, 01:23:40 AM
Exactly. Whilst he's got talent, he's not creating or scoring too many, and he plays in one of three positions that demand those things. Suso is a year older yet appreciates his entire situation. If he goes chasing the cash he's going to lose the opportunity of regular football. His choice.
That's why I think their overall strategy is amateur
and not in the best interests of the player.

My presumption is that whatever is on the table is
reasonably fair given the circumstances and unlikely
to change significantly.

So the tactic of going to the press at this early early
stage of his career attempting to hold us over the barrel
with potential surely begs the question what are
we to expect further down the line? & puts other clubs on
notice about the class of adviser the player has.

To be fair to Brendan in this instance he was spot on about
what he said in relation to it last week and seeing his words
so transparently twisted by representatives of a player of
the football club is imo wholly disrespectful to LFC.

I'm just not in the boat where it's softly softly clinging desperately
to a player whose representatives aren't showing an ounce of
respect or loyalty to anything the club has done to bring him this far.

If he leaves he was going anyway so whatever.

For every Keegan there's a Dalgish  ;D
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Tes on December 08, 2012, 05:06:37 PM
That's why I think their overall strategy is amateur
and not in the best interests of the player.

My presumption is that whatever is on the table is
reasonably fair given the circumstances and unlikely
to change significantly.

So the tactic of going to the press at this early early
stage of his career attempting to hold us over the barrel
with potential surely begs the question what are
we to expect further down the line? & puts other clubs on
notice about the class of adviser the player has.

To be fair to Brendan in this instance he was spot on about
what he said in relation to it last week and seeing his words
so transparently twisted by representatives of a player of
the football club is imo wholly disrespectful to LFC.

I'm just not in the boat where it's softly softly clinging desperately
to a player whose representatives aren't showing an ounce of
respect or loyalty to anything the club has done to bring him this far.

If he leaves he was going anyway so whatever.

For every Keegan there's a Dalgish  ;D

It's poor representation that's Sterling's problem. Most agents appear to only look at the financial side, rather than the entire pictturre.

Agree with you re the line Rodgers has taken, it's pretty much what the concensus is on here, however I don't like the fact that his words (however it happened and I'm not neccessarily blaming him) were seen in printed. Those sorts of conversations are private between manager and player.

As usually though because of the amount that has appeared in the media, we don't know the exact  situation.
Sterling may be happy with what's been offered (if anything has) and understands the situation, like Suso did, and understands that at this stage of his career it's the learning and development aspects that counts. Done correctly, the big contracts will follow.

One of the advantages for younger players is that their chances of getting 1st team football and hence the chance to gain experience and hopefully develop, have increased at our club due to the paucity of the squad.
That is something young players both at the club and any potential targets need to consider. It's unlikely they will be displaced by a mass influx and big name or at least quality, established players, either. We may bring a few 'established' players but even they are going to be on the younger side and therefore not as established as the likes of Downing, for example, was.

We need a certain amount of experience for younger players to gain the best chance to maximise and enhance their development, but we're not going to get a squad full of such.
Also, as it's the manager's professed intention to allow chances for and bring in and develop players rather than just do a 'City' or 'Chelsea' and bring in the ready made solution, we could be a good place for young and younger players to thrive and get their chance.

I have no problem with 'developing to sell' as long as those we sell are not the first choice and cream, but those who are at best, squad players or those struggling to break into the squad, and we make sure we insert 'sell on' and/or 'buy back' clauses so we maximise the benefit to us, and it help either provide funds, or see players we don't have room or chance to develop, develop at other clubs and then we have a chance to get them back already developed.

If done properly we will have a chance of increasing transfer revenue, through sell on gains and to maybe be able to re-employ players that are now game ready, but it's going to depend on the club recruiting someone who can get the financial/contractual side right (depending on whether there's a chance we may look to get them back or whether they are definately not what we want) and also scouts to monitor progress and maybe another set of eyes to help the manager decide whether to take them back or let them go forever. It's going to need quite a specialist eye for getting these decisions right.   
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: Martinmarx on December 10, 2012, 08:51:15 AM
It just doesn't bode well for the long term future of
the player at the club. This should have been a formality
with a lot of goodwill on both sides (e.g. Suso). The fact
that it appears to be descending into a media war of
words reflects poorly on the player and his advisers.

Either he wants to play for LFC or he doesn't. Seriously
if it drags on any longer the answer to that question
is crystal clear. He wants to be a professional but is behaving
like an amateur. If first team football at LFC isn't good enough
for him at 18 and he needs to be paid exorbitant amounts
to put on the red shirt then it's simply not a difficult decision for
the club to make and we move on.

When Luis joined us he was on in the region of 40k
per week (and had done a hell of a lot more in the game).

Echoes my sentiments exactly. Well said. Anything he can be, he will be at Liverpool and no place else.

Until Saturday he was a child, at least according to the UN children's convention. Furthermore the fella seems to have a somewhat troublesome background being brought up in poor circumstances. Being a father of 2 or 3 at such young age tells me a lot he's far from being the finished article when it comes to make important decisions.
Title: Re: Sterling's contract situation
Post by: the dude abides on December 10, 2012, 12:53:46 PM
I agree with most of what has been said by folks above.

OK, the media will make hay with any type of story like this one, where there is delays and indecision.

It most likely will get signed eventually.

But I got the clear vibe, last year, that this youngster was in no doubt as to his own potential worth - when he haranged dalglish to get a game in the first eleven.  That was previously pretty much unheard of.    I reckoned then, that we had potential trouble on our hands.

He has to be managed properly.  His feet need to be kept on the ground.