Anfield Road - Liverpool FC Forum

Football and lesser sports => Liverpool FC, football, sport => Topic started by: Tes on July 01, 2015, 01:56:29 PM

Title: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 01, 2015, 01:56:29 PM
I know it's not exactly 'kicked off', at least not in footballing terms, but I thought it best to get it up and running.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 05, 2015, 09:09:01 AM
Good one Tes. Also good to see the forum back on.  :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 08, 2015, 07:05:51 PM
Good one Tes. Also good to see the forum back on.  :)

We'd been hacked by Iranians. Bloody Manc or Chelsea supporting terrorists.  :D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 09, 2015, 07:57:58 PM
Nuke 'em I say!!!

Reckon we'll face another roller coaster season where part 1 will lead up to the sacking of The Brodge, and part 2 will be all about trying to pick the pieces up. Nothing new there then, right?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 10, 2015, 02:58:47 AM
(https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/toilet-seat1.jpg)

Arsenal fans do not rate Spurs new stadium, and take to photoshop.   :)

Thank goodness we did not build a default silver space-age soul-less spaceship stadium.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 10, 2015, 05:18:57 PM
So Henderson appointed new captain. Terrible decision by The Brodge. It took app. 3 minutes for my Manc mate to phone up and say "Yes!!!". As I said and will get reason to say again I reckon - upper half will be a major accomplishment this season.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 10, 2015, 05:57:52 PM
So Henderson appointed new captain. Terrible decision by The Brodge. It took app. 3 minutes for my Manc mate to phone up and say "Yes!!!". As I said and will get reason to say again I reckon - upper half will be a major accomplishment this season.

I would have thought his performances whilst wearing the armband would have confirmed he wasn't ready yet.

He reminded me of 'the curse of the England captaincy' in cricket, where by previously good and great players were shadows of their former selves whilst bearing the captaincy. Once relieved of it they'd return to their previous level.

Whilst hardly my favourite or favoured player, Skrtel was far more suitable and worthy. At this rate Joe Allen will be named vice captain. Hendo's probably the most 'lightweight' Liverpool captain, at least in my living memory.

Another huge step towards mediocrity, or maybe just confirmation that that particular destination has already been reached and Hendo's been charged with placing the flag there.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on July 10, 2015, 09:34:00 PM
I would have thought his performances whilst wearing the armband would have confirmed he wasn't ready yet.

He reminded me of 'the curse of the England captaincy' in cricket, where by previously good and great players were shadows of their former selves whilst bearing the captaincy. Once relieved of it they'd return to their previous level.

Whilst hardly my favourite or favoured player, Skrtel was far more suitable and worthy. At this rate Joe Allen will be named vice captain. Hendo's probably the most 'lightweight' Liverpool captain, at least in my living memory.

Another huge step towards mediocrity, or maybe just confirmation that that particular destination has already been reached and Hendo's been charged with placing the flag there.

Joe Allen is Vice Captain??????????????????? Dear lord almighty...that means he'll still be playing??? Where exactly in our midfield?
I'm hoping to wake up one day and realise that this was all a dream!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 10, 2015, 09:34:22 PM
I thought Hendo was excellent in our title-chasing season.

And, do not forget, that today Hendo had the honour of sharing the front cover graphics, along with Messi, for the new FIFA 16 game, or whatever it is.  Important stuff, I think.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 10, 2015, 10:32:49 PM
And, do not forget, that today Hendo had the honour of sharing the front cover graphics, along with Messi, for the new FIFA 16 game, or whatever it is.  Important stuff, I think.

No doubt Brendan's seeing this as confirmation that his decision is justified.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 10, 2015, 10:40:09 PM
Another huge step towards mediocrity, or maybe just confirmation that that particular destination has already been reached and Hendo's been charged with placing the flag there.

Poetry!!! :-* Can I frame it in my office at work when I get back from the holidays?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 10, 2015, 10:41:02 PM
I thought Hendo was excellent in our title-chasing season.

He's improved season on season by and large, but I thought the captaincy weighed him down last season and there were times when he fell below his normal expected and capable level.

I'd rather he was free to concentrate on continuing his development and reaching the level, with a lot of hard work, that I think he can reach.

He's going to be unfairly compared to Gerrard, because of the position he plays.

Giving it to Skrtel, for example, changes the dynamic with a central defender being captain, and whilst that might draw compaisons to Sami, that's nothing in comparison to being compared to Gerrard.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 10, 2015, 10:42:47 PM
Poetry!!! :-* Can I frame it in my office at work when I get back from the holidays?

Feel free, Martin, though I'm not quite sure why.  :D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 10, 2015, 10:43:44 PM
I thought Hendo was excellent in our title-chasing season.

And, do not forget, that today Hendo had the honour of sharing the front cover graphics, along with Messi, for the new FIFA 16 game, or whatever it is.  Important stuff, I think.

FFS Dude mate. Here we are having had to withstand your vitrol towards Gerrard for a season or two. Whilst I agree he peaked some time back you cannot deny he's been a matchwinner of grade for years on end wearing the armband (and even before). What particular game of importance did Henderson win for us either by scoring or by leading the pack on? The only one I remember from his 3 full seasons with us is the trumping of Spurs away some 19 months ago. As was brilliantly put by Tes, if anything his appointment is the sign of mediocrity and lack of ambition. fornicating Rodgers is so lost it's unbelieveable really.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 10, 2015, 10:44:55 PM
Feel free, Martin, though I'm not quite sure why.  :D

Because of its sheer beauty?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 11, 2015, 01:50:23 PM
Because of its sheer beauty?

So can I rely on you for a reference when I ask Hallmark or Simon Elvin for a job?  :D

Thanks for the complement, Martin.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 11, 2015, 01:59:49 PM
Balo not going on the pre-season tour. I know he was a disappointment last season, but until we get a new striker or two in, and with Studge missing the start of the season, surely we should be using who we actually have at our disposal, especially as Ings and Origi are both new to the club.

At some point even the most highly strung mellow. There's hardly a queue outside Anfield for his signature, and Balo seems like he wants to stay, so why don't we just give him another chance, at least until we actually have a replacement. New season, new slate, new start, and see if he's finally starting to feel settled for the first time in his career. He's not been 'in the papers' for a while now, that's a good sign that he's getting and understanding the message, so maybe a bit more patience and a little show of faith and we might get rewarded somehow. If nothing else, it might make our shop window seem a bit more attractive to those who aren't just window shopping.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 11, 2015, 03:26:46 PM
FFS Dude mate. Here we are having had to withstand your vitrol towards Gerrard for a season or two. Whilst I agree he peaked some time back you cannot deny he's been a matchwinner of grade for years on end wearing the armband (and even before). What particular game of importance did Henderson win for us either by scoring or by leading the pack on? The only one I remember from his 3 full seasons with us is the trumping of Spurs away some 19 months ago. As was brilliantly put by Tes, if anything his appointment is the sign of mediocrity and lack of ambition. fornicating Rodgers is so lost it's unbelieveable really.

Don't you ever get fed up being wrong, Martin?

Be it, Rafa Benitez, Rodgers, Joe Allen, Lucas, Gerrard, etc, you are constantly wrong. 

We are stuck this summer with Rodgers, who you demanded that we appoint.  Rodgers was better than sliced bread apparently.  He was the next big thing.  The young man, who had won one third-place playoff final in the Robinson's Barley Water sponsored Championship, would take us to the promised land.  Or so you said. 

And you demanded we sack Rafa Benitez.  Apparently Rafa was rubbish, and was taking us towards mediocrity.  You got your wish.  Rafa was sacked.  But Rafa has subsequently gone to to other clubs, and won trophies at every one of them.  And this summer, Rafa was appointed boss of the biggest (and most successful) club in the world.   

Like I said, do you never tire of being wrong?

I don't mind you being endlessly wrong.   What I do mind is your endless abuse and lack of respect for me, and others, who have tended to call issues correctly.   Your ability, like a goldfish, to have no memory of your past wrongs and failed analysis, is impressive (but frustrating). 

Right now, Henderson is the least of our concerns. 

I'd be far more concerned about yet another summer of massive change (and the time taken to bed new players in).  I'd be concerned about the limited number of people we have bought who will definitely start in the first team and enhance it.  I'd be concerned about the appointments of people like O'Driscoll.  I would be concerned about arrogant owners, like FSG, who refuse to listen.  I would be concerned about Firmino picking up an injury early on, and suddenly our new batch of summer inputs look decidedly very average, and not an enhancement on what we had.  And right now, the club needs one, or more, proven strikers brought in.  I would be concerned about your kid, Rodgers, who has all the tactical abilities of a lower division coach at somewhere like Doncaster Rovers.

I'd be very concerned about our fixture list - with so many difficult away games in the opening 3 months.

Your guy, Rodgers, will struggle to get to Christmas, I suspect.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on July 11, 2015, 05:54:37 PM
I'm sorry but Henderson is not mediocre. Far from it. Sure he along with the rest of the team played like total rubbish at times last season, however Henderson has proven himself to be a key player for us.

I have never seen him hiding in any game bar the semi final. However that is the occasional game and not the norm.

For me his tussle with Costa in the other semi final proves to me that he will stand up for his team-mates, stand up for the team and be the leader.

I am delighted that Jordan is now the full time captain. He has shown a desire to improve his game. He has shown desire to be a leader for us and he has shown a desire to fight for the team on the pitch.

Skrtel is going to be the vice captain I reckon. I don't think he should be captain because he isn't a guaranteed starter and I don't think he can lead a team either vocally or by example. I'd just let him concentrate on defending.

In fact I wouldn't place any leadership on this defence at the moment as I'd prefer them to concentrate solely on defence and not leading the team.

Martin your manc mate needs to be concerned about his own midfield - which btw Henderson would walk into quite easily.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on July 11, 2015, 07:09:41 PM
Let me add further:-

Lucas - not even guaranteed to be here next year, not a guaranteed starter
Milner - just arrived
Sakho - Not a guaranteed starter and not in Brendan's good books
Skrtel - might consider himself unlucky not to get it, but I don't think he's a better candidate than Henderson

Henderson is a consumate professional, probably the hardest working player in the team, is becoming more active in displaying leadership qualities off the pitch as well as on, and given his struggles when he started here he is (like Lucas) an excellent example of the benefits of hard work and dedication. He's well liked by the other players who seem to genuinely respect him, and will be out there every single game giving it the same effort and intensity in the 90th minute as he is in the 1st. Not to mention, in the absence of any Scouse candidates, as a Northern lad who understands the values of the City and the club he's the obvious choice. I really feel like he just gets the club, and there are few players in our squad that I believe take as much pride in playing for us as he does.

He got 7 goals and 10 assists last year. Bank on both of those being higher next season. I think he'll thrive being the leader and captain.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 11, 2015, 08:14:01 PM
I am delighted that Jordan is now the full time captain. He has shown a desire to improve his game. He has shown desire to be a leader for us and he has shown a desire to fight for the team on the pitch.

Skrtel is going to be the vice captain I reckon. I don't think he should be captain because he isn't a guaranteed starter and I don't think he can lead a team either vocally or by example. I'd just let him concentrate on defending.

agreed, on both counts (Hendo and Skrtel).

Making him captain could be the making of Hendo.  I saw enough of him in his second year (the year we almost won the title), to be very impressed with his progression. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 12, 2015, 03:39:37 PM
Feel free, Martin, though I'm not quite sure why.  :D

Aaaahhhh, sorry mate. It came out the wrong way I realise. Had been quite hard on the ale and was just happy find your words describing my feelings exactly. It's not like I'm happy we're heading for mediocrity or summat.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 12, 2015, 03:44:58 PM
I'm sorry but Henderson is not mediocre. Far from it. Sure he along with the rest of the team played like total rubbish at times last season, however Henderson has proven himself to be a key player for us.

I have never seen him hiding in any game bar the semi final. However that is the occasional game and not the norm.

No offense mate, but he sure as fukc didn't turn up on March 22nd. I didn't see him against Hull, against CP or Stoke. In fact, I struggle to remember the games where he actually turned up. And this thing "he's working hard" as a good enough to wear the armband is just further proof of how far into mediocrity we've slipped.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 12, 2015, 03:49:19 PM
Don't you ever get fed up being wrong, Martin?

Be it, Rafa Benitez, Rodgers, Joe Allen, Lucas, Gerrard, etc, you are constantly wrong. 

We are stuck this summer with Rodgers, who you demanded that we appoint.  Rodgers was better than sliced bread apparently.  He was the next big thing.  The young man, who had won one third-place playoff final in the Robinson's Barley Water sponsored Championship, would take us to the promised land.  Or so you said. 

And you demanded we sack Rafa Benitez.  Apparently Rafa was rubbish, and was taking us towards mediocrity.  You got your wish.  Rafa was sacked.  But Rafa has subsequently gone to to other clubs, and won trophies at every one of them.  And this summer, Rafa was appointed boss of the biggest (and most successful) club in the world.   

Like I said, do you never tire of being wrong?

I don't mind you being endlessly wrong.   What I do mind is your endless abuse and lack of respect for me, and others, who have tended to call issues correctly.   Your ability, like a goldfish, to have no memory of your past wrongs and failed analysis, is impressive (but frustrating). 

Right now, Henderson is the least of our concerns. 

I'd be far more concerned about yet another summer of massive change (and the time taken to bed new players in).  I'd be concerned about the limited number of people we have bought who will definitely start in the first team and enhance it.  I'd be concerned about the appointments of people like O'Driscoll.  I would be concerned about arrogant owners, like FSG, who refuse to listen.  I would be concerned about Firmino picking up an injury early on, and suddenly our new batch of summer inputs look decidedly very average, and not an enhancement on what we had.  And right now, the club needs one, or more, proven strikers brought in.  I would be concerned about your kid, Rodgers, who has all the tactical abilities of a lower division coach at somewhere like Doncaster Rovers.

I'd be very concerned about our fixture list - with so many difficult away games in the opening 3 months.

Your guy, Rodgers, will struggle to get to Christmas, I suspect.

Seriously mate, calm the fukc down. Please! I was wrong on Rodgers. I really was. What else do you want me to say? As for Rafa he won't come even withing touching distance of what Ancelotti's accomplished next season. He'll be for Real what GH was to Lyon. Another manager I said a couple of years before his sacking he wasn't gonna take us further. Can't you just let Rafa go? For the sake of your mental health?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 12, 2015, 04:02:18 PM
In a way I would've preferred to see us ruin his career by letting him rot in the reserves, teaching him humility the good old fashioned way. Sending a message not only to the spoilt brat but to players in general you go about your things in a professional way. Sterling's just confirmed every prejudice I ever had.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 12, 2015, 04:29:33 PM
Seriously mate, calm the fukc down. Please! I was wrong on Rodgers. I really was. What else do you want me to say? As for Rafa he won't come even withing touching distance of what Ancelotti's accomplished next season. He'll be for Real what GH was to Lyon. Another manager I said a couple of years before his sacking he wasn't gonna take us further. Can't you just let Rafa go? For the sake of your mental health?

Martin, you are wrong on EVERYTHING.

You need to pick another sport - because football sure isn't your speciality.

Why not focus on golf or cricket, or something more linked to Scandinavia......ski-ing, or ABBA or summat.

 :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 12, 2015, 05:48:09 PM
Let me add further:-

Lucas - not even guaranteed to be here next year, not a guaranteed starter
Milner - just arrived
Sakho - Not a guaranteed starter and not in Brendan's good books
Skrtel - might consider himself unlucky not to get it, but I don't think he's a better candidate than Henderson

So he's the best of a bunch of uninspiring choices. We agree. We just state things in a different way.

Hendo was on the beach or where ever they all were from the Manc game forward along with most of his team mates. I guess it just demonstrates the dirth of 'real' talent at the club when Jordan Henderson has to be 'talked up'. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 12, 2015, 06:14:27 PM
So he's the best of a bunch of uninspiring choices. We agree. We just state things in a different way.

From: http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/raheem-sterling-taking-mickey-out-9639929 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/raheem-sterling-taking-mickey-out-9639929)

"There weren’t exactly many options for Brendan Rodgers when it came to picking a new captain, and therein lies the problem."

And that's exactly why I'm hardly doing cartwheels at Jordan's appointment.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 12, 2015, 06:33:03 PM
it will all come good.

we are only 4 years into the Messiah's 5 year project!

a dozen more new signings in the next transfer window, and we will be on the way.

 ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 12, 2015, 07:01:40 PM
it will all come good.

we are only 4 years into the Messiah's 5 year project!

a dozen more new signings in the next transfer window, and we will be on the way.

 ;D

Silly me, expecting so much too soon.  :-[   ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 12, 2015, 08:19:24 PM
So he's the best of a bunch of uninspiring choices. We agree. We just state things in a different way.

Hendo was on the beach or where ever they all were from the Manc game forward along with most of his team mates. I guess it just demonstrates the dirth of 'real' talent at the club when Jordan Henderson has to be 'talked up'.

I don't see why Milner couldn't be handed the armband. One of the more experienced PL players in the squad. The only player with a PL-medal to show for. Calm, both feet on the ground, proven his quality time and again at different clubs. Seems to tick pretty much every box Henderson doesn't, save for the "work hard" box and possibly "moan at the ref at every fukcin decision" box.

And I didn't even mention how hard it is to stomach the overlooking of Skrtel. Of course.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 12, 2015, 10:04:18 PM
I don't see why Milner couldn't be handed the armband. One of the more experienced PL players in the squad. The only player with a PL-medal to show for. Calm, both feet on the ground, proven his quality time and again at different clubs. Seems to tick pretty much every box Henderson doesn't, save for the "work hard" box and possibly "moan at the ref at every fukcin decision" box.

And I didn't even mention how hard it is to stomach the overlooking of Skrtel. Of course.

wow, you have turned full-circle Martin re Skrtel.   :)

And as for the notion of Milner being captain.  The guy is only in the door.  He barely knows his colleagues' names, farless anything about the club, or it's tactics.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 12, 2015, 10:40:18 PM
If Milner had been at the club for 2 or 3 seasons then he'd have been a very strong contender, but it just can't be done handing the new guy the captaincy straight away and overlooking players who've been at the club for a few seasons. I doubt it will stop Milner from 'setting a captain's example' on and off the pitch though, and it would have been a lot of pressure asking him to be captain whilst still adapting to a new club and team mates. This way he can focus primarily on that and then grow into a leadership role anyway.

I think there's a fair message being sent out by making Hendo captain, in that hard work and determination allied to a professional attitude at all times will be rewarded.

For Hendo in particular, he suffered a nightmare first season being shifted about and played out of position, and has worked his way back from the brink of being exchanged for Clint Dempsey. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 12, 2015, 11:00:42 PM
If Milner had been at the club for 2 or 3 seasons then he'd have been a very strong contender, but it just can't be done handing the new guy the captaincy straight away and overlooking players who've been at the club for a few seasons. I doubt it will stop Milner from 'setting a captain's example' on and off the pitch though, and it would have been a lot of pressure asking him to be captain whilst still adapting to a new club and team mates. This way he can focus primarily on that and then grow into a leadership role anyway.

I think there's a fair message being sent out by making Hendo captain, in that hard work and determination allied to a professional attitude at all times will be rewarded.

For Hendo in particular, he suffered a nightmare first season being shifted about and played out of position, and has worked his way back from the brink of being exchanged for Clint Dempsey.

You have some very strong and good argumens there Tes. The more I think about it the more I realise you're right in saying the best thing is to let Milner focus on blending in.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on July 12, 2015, 11:02:24 PM
wow, you have turned full-circle Martin re Skrtel.   :)

I have? I've been critical of him in the past where he was an outright liability. But as it is the Brodge decided to stick with him and fair enough, the last 18 months he's been pretty much the heart and the soul of our team and he has also improved his game massively during that time. Cred where cred's due an'all.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 14, 2015, 10:07:27 PM
I have? I've been critical of him in the past where he was an outright liability. But as it is the Brodge decided to stick with him and fair enough, the last 18 months he's been pretty much the heart and the soul of our team and he has also improved his game massively during that time. Cred where cred's due an'all.

well said, Martin.

Onwards and upwards. 

We just need a new manager, new coach, new chief executive, new transfer committee, new striker/s and we are all set to fly high.  Almost there.

Year 4 of the 5 year project.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 14, 2015, 11:43:03 PM
well said, Martin.

Onwards and upwards. 

We just need a new manager, new coach, new chief executive, new transfer committee, new striker/s and we are all set to fly high.  Almost there.

Year 4 of the 5 year project.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the new 'optimistic Dude'. Gimme back my old Dude.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 15, 2015, 02:40:25 AM
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the new 'optimistic Dude'. Gimme back my old Dude.  ;D

 :)

yin and yang.

McCartney wrote my first two sentences.......and Lennon wrote the bottom two.  :)

Never let it be said that I am not balanced in my approach.   :D

But cynical dude always wins out, re modern Liverpool FC....and rightfully so (sadly)    :(
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 15, 2015, 12:06:14 PM
:)

yin and yang.

McCartney wrote my first two sentences.......and Lennon wrote the bottom two.  :)

Never let it be said that I am not balanced in my approach.   :D

But cynical dude always wins out, re modern Liverpool FC....and rightfully so (sadly)    :(

I know it might seem like cynicism or harshness, but unfortunately it's just realism. Some people can't accept reality if it's too harsh and so label it cynicism, as I guess it makes them feel a bit better about 'reality'.

We can't help seeing the things we do. We'd much sooner be seeing and saying completely different things.

My feelings about Rodgers would have taken an upturn if he'd taken the risk (for different reasons) and also the accomplishment of appointing Pako or even René Meulensteen as his assistant.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on July 15, 2015, 01:09:52 PM

My feelings about Rodgers would have taken an upturn if he'd taken the risk (for different reasons) and also the accomplishment of appointing Pako or even René Meulensteen as his assistant.

So from zero it would have gone up to one, Tes? He's taken 'credit' for getting rid of Pascoe and Marsh...dead man walking and he knows it, but he won't resign because some idjit gave him an 'outstanding' contract some 10 months ago...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 15, 2015, 08:59:32 PM
He's taken 'credit' for getting rid of Pascoe and Marsh

I hadn't seen that. What did he say Barticus?

 Maybe it was the timing of it all straight after meeting his bosses, but it didn't have the 'feel' of something Rodgers would do of his own volition. You tend to see managers (where it applies and is feasible, I'm thinking of the likes of Harry Rednapp with Joe Jordan and Kevin Bond etc) take the same group of staff from club to club, which is understandable, as they know, trust and feel comfortable working closely with that group. It has a feel of scapegoating and those two being the sacrificial lambs that allowed the manager to hold onto his job. I'm probably barking in the wrong forest, nevermind up the wrong tree 'seeing' it like that, but he obviously had total faith in them, especially Colin Pascoe, and appeared still to have at the season's end.
There was no hint of dischord amongst the manager and his coaching staff, and these things, like a manager losing the dressing room or there being splits and/or cliques forming in the dressing room, seem almost impossible to keep under wraps nowadays.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on July 16, 2015, 07:51:33 AM
I hadn't seen that. What did he say Barticus?


Brendan Rodgers is looking to take his backroom team 'in a different direction' after wholesale changes this summer.

Colin Pascoe was sacked as assistant manager while first-team coach Mike Marsh was also relieved of his duties at Anfield.

Sean O'Driscoll was appointed as Rodgers' new assistant and former player Gary McAllister joined as a first-team coach. Pepijn Lijnders, meanwhile, was promoted from the academy to a role with the first team focused on elite player development.

The Liverpool manager said he felt he needed to change his support team despite suggestions that he was told to do so at his end-of-season review with Fenway Sports.

'I decided to make a change,' Rodgers said at a press conference in Thailand, where Liverpool landed on Monday for their pre-season tour.

'I had two fantastic guys, both Colin and Mike are great professionals and were very supportive.

'I just felt the need to move in a different direction and the decision was purely made by myself.

'The guys have integrated very well into the group and hopefully we can continue with that ambiance in our work.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3159147/Brendan-Rodgers-said-changed-coaching-staff-wanted-new-direction.html
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 16, 2015, 10:58:15 PM
Brendan Rodgers is looking to take his backroom team 'in a different direction' after wholesale changes this summer.

Colin Pascoe was sacked as assistant manager while first-team coach Mike Marsh was also relieved of his duties at Anfield.

Sean O'Driscoll was appointed as Rodgers' new assistant and former player Gary McAllister joined as a first-team coach. Pepijn Lijnders, meanwhile, was promoted from the academy to a role with the first team focused on elite player development.

The Liverpool manager said he felt he needed to change his support team despite suggestions that he was told to do so at his end-of-season review with Fenway Sports.

'I decided to make a change,' Rodgers said at a press conference in Thailand, where Liverpool landed on Monday for their pre-season tour.

'I had two fantastic guys, both Colin and Mike are great professionals and were very supportive.

'I just felt the need to move in a different direction and the decision was purely made by myself.

'The guys have integrated very well into the group and hopefully we can continue with that ambiance in our work.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3159147/Brendan-Rodgers-said-changed-coaching-staff-wanted-new-direction.html

Thanks for that Barticus.

Interesting. We have to take him at his word or wait until his memoirs come out.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on July 17, 2015, 10:26:01 AM
Brendan Rodgers is a sick individual.  A back stabbing snake!  The scum takes credit when things go well but totally disassociates himself from problems when they arise and is a master at the blame game.

I'm so hacked off with the goings on at the club and the season hasn't even started...lol   
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 17, 2015, 10:39:03 AM
Brendan Rodgers is a sick individual.  A back stabbing snake!  The scum takes credit when things go well but totally disassociates himself from problems when they arise and is a master at the blame game.

I'm so hacked off with the goings on at the club and the season hasn't even started...lol

It's something that a lot of people don't understand about us. We like our club and it's employees, (the manager is the 'face' of the club) to do things in an honourable and humble way. It's not just about winning and success, but even within modern times, to still hold on to our 'decency'. As always, the substance is what counts, the image (window dressing) is secondary, with the perception part of the image being more important than the image in it's own right.

And I love that about us.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 17, 2015, 10:54:54 AM
From: Adam Lallana goal video: Liverpool playmaker nets against Brisbane with assist from new signing

http://www.fanatix.com/news/adam-lallana-goal-video-liverpool-playmaker-nets-against-brisbane-with-assist-from-new-signing/690414/ (http://www.fanatix.com/news/adam-lallana-goal-video-liverpool-playmaker-nets-against-brisbane-with-assist-from-new-signing/690414/)

"Dimitri Petratos had broken the deadlock just after the quarter hour, taking advantage of some sloppy defending…"

I don't like change at my age, so it's comforting to know some things never change.  ;D

I guess a coach that even has the basics of defending in his skill set is something Rodgers still thinks is not needed.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 17, 2015, 11:45:17 AM
From: Adam Lallana goal video: Liverpool playmaker nets against Brisbane with assist from new signing

http://www.fanatix.com/news/adam-lallana-goal-video-liverpool-playmaker-nets-against-brisbane-with-assist-from-new-signing/690414/ (http://www.fanatix.com/news/adam-lallana-goal-video-liverpool-playmaker-nets-against-brisbane-with-assist-from-new-signing/690414/)

"Dimitri Petratos had broken the deadlock just after the quarter hour, taking advantage of some sloppy defending…"

I don't like change at my age, so it's comforting to know some things never change.  ;D

I guess a coach that even has the basics of defending in his skill set is something Rodgers still thinks is not needed.

On a more positive note, coming from one down to win 2-1 was something we completely lost for the best part of last season. If we regain the 'fight' and gain a 'refusal to lose' mentality, that in itself will be an improvement on last season, but that alone won't be enough to see us hit top 3.

Forget 4th place as it's only a qualifier for a qualifier. I hate the whole idea. A whole season's results riding on just 2 games, rendering those 38 irrelevant. Whatever happened to earning what you get and getting what you earn.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 17, 2015, 02:49:56 PM
Colin Pascoe was sacked as assistant manager while first-team coach Mike Marsh was also relieved of his duties at Anfield.

'I decided to make a change.  I had two fantastic guys, both Colin and Mike are great professionals and were very supportive."

'I just felt the need to move in a different direction and the decision was purely made by myself.

'The guys have integrated very well into the group and hopefully we can continue with that ambiance in our work.'

Thanks for posting that Bart.

Like Tes, I had not seen these words before you mentioned them.

Wow, I imagined that Brent had saved his job this summer, by going along woth FSG's demands for change.  Instead, the Brentmaster General himself admits firing his two assistants.

Wow, just wow.   This guy comes across as even nastier (and self-centred) that I had previously imagined.   

In my opinion, any one with any sense of decency or honour, would have walked this summer.  You most certainly would not have sacked your assistants......one of whom has been your mate and who you brought with you to the club.  I cannot think of any similar examples of such behaviour in the premiership. 

It would be fascinating to hear the private views of Colin Pascoe, re this summer's sacking.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 17, 2015, 02:55:38 PM
On a more positive note, coming from one down to win 2-1 was something we completely lost for the best part of last season. If we regain the 'fight' and gain a 'refusal to lose' mentality, that in itself will be an improvement on last season, but that alone won't be enough to see us hit top 3.

agreed, Tes.

Although I think that never-say-die attitude was one inspired by Suarez.

Without his industry and attitude, we are back to our old normal ways.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on July 17, 2015, 04:15:59 PM
You most certainly would not have sacked your assistants......one of whom has been your mate and who you brought with you to the club.  I cannot think of any similar examples of such behaviour in the premiership. 

It would be fascinating to hear the private views of Colin Pascoe, re this summer's sacking.

The thing that really gets me Dude, is that this c%nt even had the audacity to come out in the media and confirm that the decision to part company with Pascoe and Marsh was his.  Who needs enemies when you gotta mate like Brendan!  What an utter w*nker!!!!

He is not fit for purpose, i.e. being manager of Liverpool FC.  He is an individual completely engrossed with himself.  Any decent human being would have walked away after that drumming we received at Stoke.  But not him!  It was all Pascoe and Marsh  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

They should make another 'Being Liverpool' and make sure that it's aired on Comedy Central!  Seriously, it would be hit!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 17, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
The thing that really gets me Dude, is that this c%nt even had the audacity to come out in the media and confirm that the decision to part company with Pascoe and Marsh was his.  Who needs enemies when you gotta mate like Brendan!  What an utter w*nker!!!!

He is not fit for purpose, i.e. being manager of Liverpool FC.  He is an individual completely engrossed with himself.  Any decent human being would have walked away after that drumming we received at Stoke.  But not him!  It was all Pascoe and Marsh  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

They should make another 'Being Liverpool' and make sure that it's aired on Comedy Central!

 :) :) :)

I agree.  But like we always said, when one has a mouth as big as Brendan's, sooner-or-later one's words come back to haunt you.

And by November, Brendan may be needing all the friends he can drum up, to get behind him, in the media.  Pascoe would I imagine by this point, be an ex-friend.

But to come out and admit that he did the firing.  That tells me something.  It tells me that Brendan is so far up FSG's posterior, that he is glad to come out and take fire off them.  He thinks it will mean that FSG see him in a glowing light.

On the contrary.  If I were FSG, I would think "What a sycophant we have here.  We tell him to jump and he squeals 'how high, boss?'.  What a crawler.  What a sc.u.mbag.  What an a.s.s.w.ipe, to do that to a friend.  If he does that to a close friend, what will he say behind our backs?"

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on July 17, 2015, 08:07:15 PM
FSG insisted upon the changes so I doubt they'd be thinking that.

FSG have given Brendan everything he wanted. Coaches and players. So there will be no excuses, no what ifs, no lack of clarification. Everything is transparent now.

Brendan wanted O'Driscoll we got him. Brendan wanted Clyne, Ings, Gomez, Milner, Firmino and Benteke. We've got them - well Benteke pending.

FSG never were going to sack Brendan - I did tell you all this - even after the shambles against Stoke - but they do want results and Brendan will not be given any further opportunity if he were to fail now.

BTW Tes you need to amend your signature  :P
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 17, 2015, 08:53:43 PM
FSG insisted upon the changes.

well in that case, either Brenda or our owners are being efficient with the truth.

Brenda says: "'I decided to make a change......the decision was purely made by myself."

Yes, you called it right, Edward.

Our owners did indeed stick with their lemon.

And I called it wrong, re them looking as if they were fattening us for market.  I take my hat off to them, as well as the stadium expansion, they have pumped a lot of money into our transfer kitty this summer.

No excuses now, going forward, for the young man in the dugout. 




Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 18, 2015, 11:59:51 AM
agreed, Tes.

Although I think that never-say-die attitude was one inspired by Suarez.

Without his industry and attitude, we are back to our old normal ways.

I agree Dude. Throughout last season you just had that feeling that more than we realised was down to Luis. He had that 'infectous' drive, work rate, absolute will to win, that has a way of dragging others along with it.

I'm clutching at straws a bit, I realise, and it is only a friendly, but after seeing our usual level of defending landing us a goal behind, after last season, it was nice to see us comeback and win the thing, friendly or not.

Desperate times, Dude, desperate times. I'm just hoping that the 11 shirts on the pitch can somehow fashion a winning way between themselves, as they're our only hope. I don't want my life long love of football and LFC eroded away by a bunch of shallow individuals and dirty, greedy moneygrabbers.
Whilst I admire what the owners are doing in terms of marketing, and getting on with the stadium side of things, their lack of understanding what's required on the football side, and more importantly, the lack of any evidence of them taking any of the required steps to change that knowledge vacuum, makes it hard to have realistic hope.

People can say what they want about Chelsea and City's owners, but they look like 'success' is a real driving force for them. Vanity project or not, success has to be the word associated with it. Of course they're throwing money at it that our owners don't have, but Abramovich is no 'American' when it comes to football and Mansour and Co have made the necessary appointments, and they too appear to understand what is required on the football side beyond merely buying players.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on July 20, 2015, 07:38:55 PM
Milner is going to be our vice-captain. Makes sense to me personally.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 20, 2015, 09:05:19 PM
BTW Tes you need to amend your signature  :P

You were right, and there's the proof in lights.

I could always bring back the Balotelli one.  ;)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 20, 2015, 09:09:31 PM
And I called it wrong, re them looking as if they were fattening us for market. 

You could still be right, Dude. Selling with one stand built and the other all planned and passed would make a more appealing asset.

It may be unfair on Henry, but his interest in actually attending has all but disappeared. I don't follow American big bat rounders, but it would be interesting to know how many appearances he's put in there since he last showed his face at Anfield.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 20, 2015, 09:12:25 PM
Milner is going to be our vice-captain. Makes sense to me personally.

Good move. Top pro, cool head, Sami-type role model. Hendo will need some guidance and Milner's exactly the sort to give it, and there's no 'being overlooked' grudge to bear either.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on July 24, 2015, 01:47:03 PM
My predicted league table:-

1. Arsenal
2. Chelsea
3. Man Utd
4. Man City
5. Liverpool
6. Spurs
7. Swansea
8. Stoke
9. West Ham
10. Southampton
11. Everton
12. Crystal Palace
13. Newcastle
14. WBA
15. Bournemouth
16. Norwich City
17. Sunderland
18. Aston Villa
19. Leicester
20. Watford
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 25, 2015, 10:58:31 AM
I am not even as optimistic as you, Edward.

Our owners have backed Rodgers to the hilt this summer.

It's his last throw of the dice.

But it's another summer, where he has brought in half a new team.

Going on what I witnessed in April and May, the dressing room looked to be in meltdown.   How do you take that rump of players, confidence non-existent, and add 5 or 6 new ones to it, and hope to get them gelling and competitive from the start.

This is the second summer, where he has made such wholesale changes.   When you are making that number of changes, as we enter the 4th year of his project, then there is something obviously wrong.

I think 6th or 7th, at best.

Most likely Rodgers to lose his job before Christmas.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 25, 2015, 02:25:34 PM
I am not even as optimistic as you, Edward.

Our owners have backed Rodgers to the hilt this summer.

It's his last throw of the dice.

But it's another summer, where he has brought in half a new team.

Going on what I witnessed in April and May, the dressing room looked to be in meltdown.   How do you take that rump of players, confidence non-existent, and add 5 or 6 new ones to it, and hope to get them gelling and competitive from the start.

This is the second summer, where he has made such wholesale changes.   When you are making that number of changes, as we enter the 4th year of his project, then there is something obviously wrong.

I think 6th or 7th, at best.

Most likely Rodgers to lose his job before Christmas.

I won't start on the number of players brought in. I've stated my opinion about how many or few I prefer to see, and Wenger has shown that keeping stability and change down to a minimum produces rewards - his record of CL qualification doesn't get the praise it deserves. If we look at the teams that have been in and out of the top four during that time it's interesting. Wouldn't it be nice if we could take CL qualification literally for granted and instead were complaining about never actually challenging for the title.

Rodgers complained midway through last season about the number of new faces and the difficulty of incorporating so many, in fact he said that it meant that last season became one of transition rather than being able to 'build' on the 2nd place finish, and then does exactly the same again when given more 'power and freedom' - that's the feeling I get, that as a result of 'the review' the owners have understood better the need for the manager to be 'free' to be in charge.

It's truly baffling. The existing players have a new coaching setup to adjust to and additionally, now have 7 or 8 new team mates. 7 or 8 new players have everything new to adjust to. It's constant churn and flux, no stability. Rodgers aside, from the POV of the players, both existing and new, we've almost got to accept that this season will have a degree of 'transition', which as Dude has rightly pointed out, to have that in a manager's 4th season is poor. Three seasons in and we're not building on what has already gone before, but we've ripped it up and started again.
Has Rodgers just put his own head in the noose by doing that?

What I find so hard to put up with, in that if things don't immediately 'slip into gear', whilst Rodgers will find himself under even greater pressure, or even be shown the door before the end of the season etc, is the bigger picture - Liverpool Football Club is failing, is suffering, is not the instituition that a lot of football people still see us as or want us to get back to being again. Apart from the odd exception, it's been this way since we lost 2-0 at home to Arsenal and gave them the title. For me, that was the start.
From then on it's been one mistake after another, and whilst the mistakes we easier to avoid than they appeared to those that made them, the one strand that joins them together, for me, at least, is sheer 'bloody common sense', the type that Shanks and Paisley used effortlessly. 'Simplicity' was the watchword. Keep it simple, and you keep it 'sensible'. Sheer 'bloody common sense' has been long time absentee from Anfield.
'Overthinking', 'misguided' and 'completely missing the point' are now the methods used and the routes followed.

Trace it back to when Dalglish quit originally. The club was on it's knees after Heysel and Hillsborough. We needed someone who could restore the club, both off and on the pitch. Someone who understood us and someone who understood football. And someone who's personality reflected our's as a club. One man. The choice was obvious, the reasoning went beyond the 'too simplistic' ideal of 'keeping it in the family'. We'd taken the keeping it in the family maybe a step too far with a player manager, or maybe, that was a sign that this particular route had reached it's natural end. So we had to look out from the ruins, not scrabble about within them for the answer, and the answer lay with another Bob from the North East.

So back to year 4 or year 26, either way it makes grim reading. Thankfully, we won't be reading the muppets on social media proclaiming 'this is our year'. At least Rodgers has managed that much in his time here.

In so many ways Rodgers feels like the poster boy for our last 26 years - he represents it all perfectly - as far removed from 'keep it simple' and 'sheer bloody common sense', probably as it's possible to be.

I feel the whisky and prozac beckoning me.................................. :(
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on July 27, 2015, 08:23:47 AM
After beating the Thai All stars, Brisbane, Adelaide and Malaysia XI, we now have the mouth watering prospect of playing the mighty Helsinki and Swindon Town.
Now after seeing Manure, Chelsea, Citeh etc playing the like of Real, Barcelona and PSG, i'm wondering who the hell came up with that line up???
And to think we have Stoke away first and have had no real tests. Can't wait!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on July 27, 2015, 09:45:48 AM
After beating the Thai All stars, Brisbane, Adelaide and Malaysia XI, we now have the mouth watering prospect of playing the mighty Helsinki and Swindon Town.
Now after seeing Manure, Chelsea, Citeh etc playing the like of Real, Barcelona and PSG, i'm wondering who the hell came up with that line up???
And to think we have Stoke away first and have had no real tests. Can't wait!

It's all about Marketing not preparation for the new football season I'm afraid.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on July 27, 2015, 09:53:36 PM
Whereas last year we face Roma, Man City,  Milan, Man U and Dortmund and failed badly.

It doesn't matter about opposition in pre-season that greatly. What is most important are the players gaining fitness, integrating themselves with the club, getting used to the system and each other.

We would have face a "big name" club at Anfield in our final pre season game however due to the main stand refurbishment we cannot do that.

The champions cup that those clubs have played in are solely in america - like we participated last year.

Whereas in 2014 Chelsea faced:- Wycombe, Wimbledon, Olympic Ljubljana, Vitesse Arnhem, Werder Bremen, Ferencvaros.

WOW STRONG TEAMS THOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 28, 2015, 12:08:25 PM
(http://www.ecestaticos.com/image/clipping/939/f5fefb324f1246cf82476ed55e002926/montse-seara-cordon-press.jpg)


Rafa Benitez's wife says Real Madrid boss spends his time cleaning up Jose Mourinho's mess

RAFA BENITEZ’S wife has launched a tongue-in-cheek jibe at his old rival Jose Mourinho.

The Spaniard, now in charge of Real Madrid, has now managed three clubs where Mourinho has previously been in charge.

Speaking to La Region, the ex-Liverpool boss’s wife Montserrat Seara Benitez said: “We tidy up his messes. If you think about it, of course you end up crossing paths. There are only a few world-class clubs out there.”

Benitez took over directly from Mourinho at Inter after they had won the treble in 2010 but failed to impress and was sacked before Christmas.

In 2012 he was appointed interim manager at Chelsea, five years after the Portuguese had left Stamford Bridge and though he won the Europa League he failed to mount a title challenge and suffered disappointing League Cup and FA Cup exits in the semi-finals.

Benitez has now arrived at Real Madrid, two years after Mourinho left and returned to west London to replace his rival.

And the 2005 Champions League-winning coach’s wife also spoke about her husband’s obsession with football. She explained: “On our first date, Rafa explained to me what a 4-4-2 was. He finds it hard to stay away from the game. The year we spent at home [Benitez was out of work for all of 2011] he helped coach the local school team. It was hilarious. He stood on the sidelines and shouted at them as if they were first division players, waving his arms about."

“He doesn't see football as work, it's his passion. Sometimes I ask him, who's going to play? He says he doesn't know yet. They criticised him at Liverpool for constantly tweaking his starting XI.
I thought his two best friends in England were going to kill him."

Benitez’s Real take on AC Milan in Shanghai on Thursday in their next pre-season clash.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 28, 2015, 12:51:13 PM
It's truly baffling. The existing players have a new coaching setup to adjust to and additionally, now have 7 or 8 new team mates. 7 or 8 new players have everything new to adjust to. It's constant churn and flux, no stability. Rodgers aside, from the POV of the players, both existing and new, we've almost got to accept that this season will have a degree of 'transition', which as Dude has rightly pointed out, to have that in a manager's 4th season is poor. Three seasons in and we're not building on what has already gone before, but we've ripped it up and started again.
Has Rodgers just put his own head in the noose by doing that?

What I find so hard to put up with, in that if things don't immediately 'slip into gear', whilst Rodgers will find himself under even greater pressure, or even be shown the door before the end of the season etc, is the bigger picture - Liverpool Football Club is failing, is suffering, is not the instituition that a lot of football people still see us as or want us to get back to being again. Apart from the odd exception, it's been this way since we lost 2-0 at home to Arsenal and gave them the title. For me, that was the start.

Trace it back to when Dalglish quit originally. The club was on it's knees after Heysel and Hillsborough. We needed someone who could restore the club, both off and on the pitch. Someone who understood us and someone who understood football. And someone who's personality reflected our's as a club. One man. The choice was obvious, the reasoning went beyond the 'too simplistic' ideal of 'keeping it in the family'. We'd taken the keeping it in the family maybe a step too far with a player manager, or maybe, that was a sign that this particular route had reached it's natural end. So we had to look out from the ruins, not scrabble about within them for the answer, and the answer lay with another Bob from the North East.

top post, Tes.

Funny you should mention the rot setting in that night we lost the title at Anfield to Arsenal, with the last kick of the ball.   I always felt the same.  Yet my best mate always pointed out to me that we went on and won the title a final time, the following season.

But like you, I felt that awful loss, that night in May 1989, was the end of an era.

And as we have often agreed, Bobby Robson was the man we needed......not the young lad, Dalglish......and most certainly not Souness. 

If we had appointed Bobby Robson, I think our era of dominance would have continued for at least another decade.  I see a scenario of instead of Ferguson and Wenger going head to head in the 90s, fighting for the title......instead I imagine Robson v Fergie (Liverpool v United).

Then again, with a dominant Liverpool, would Fergie even have got a foothold established at United.  If our dominance had continued (under Bobby), then United may well have sacked Fergie early on.

It's all IFs and BUTs.

I am a firm believer in top men at the top, and a top man in the manager's position.

Peter Robinson and John Smith were top men.

Indeed, John Smith was our chairman for 17 years....between 1973 and 1990.   Our last title came in the summer of 1990.  Is it just mere coincidence that those 17 years mirrored our exact era of dominance?  I suspect not.

I'd love to know the role he played, or didn't play, in the appointment of Dalglish. I'd love to know how the decision was arrived at...and who took part in the decision.  I am guessing that he went along with the appointment, on the grounds that Bob Paisley would be there to guide Kenny. 

History will probably say that the club never recovered from Heysel and Hillsborough. 

But I think with the proper management, we would have continued with our dominance.

As you say, we have never recovered.  It's been one mistake after another.

Noel White came after John Smith, as chairman.  And there's your problem  IMHO.  He's not in the same class as Smith....nowhere near it. 

And our era of being decent, and always doing the right thing, and being an overly reflective club, drowning in melancholy and tears for glory days, was something I felt that David Moores brought along. 

We never replaced Bob Paisley, or John Smith.  Then again, very few could have replaced such men.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 30, 2015, 01:06:16 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FPj5h-8xhm8/T_WisAHZbHI/AAAAAAAAW0o/i7SyUfxz3EI/s1600/_60639539_rodgers2.png)

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers is battling with estranged wife Susan over the carve-up of their property empire - which consists of 102 houses.

The huge portfolio owned by the feuding couple emerged in a hearing in the High Court in London earlier this week.

Susan Rodgers (40) is believed to have demanded 50% of the property and half of the Ulsterman's future earnings in a bitter divorce settlement which could end up costing the Premier League football boss somewhere in the region of £8.5m.

The property portfolio, which was built up over two decades, is so large it will cost the Rodgers £32,000 just to have its value independently assessed.

Meanwhile, it is estimated that Carnlough man Rodgers will have earned some £20m as Liverpool manager by the time his contract expires in 2018. Even if he is sacked before then - and Rodgers is under pressure following a poor third season at Anfield - his contract is likely to be paid up in full.
Rodgers split with his wife early last year after 24 years together, 14 of them as a married couple. The pair have two children, Anton (20) and a 17-year-old daughter Mischa.

The 42-year-old, who moved from the family home into a £1.2m Merseyside apartment, has been dating 31-year-old Charlotte Searle, a former travel co-ordinator at Liverpool FC, since last summer. Ms Searle has a young daughter by her former husband Steven Hind.

As details of the Rodgers' messy break-up emerged in court, the pair sat 15ft apart but did not look at each other as lawyers explained they were locked in a "financial dispute resolution".
The court will rule on how much Susan, who met her husband when he was a young professional footballer with Reading, gets of Rodgers' future salary and for how long.

A family law expert said: "I would expect her to be trying for half his wages."

Since the relationship broke down Rodgers is said to have undergone an image makeover, including spending thousands of pounds having his teeth whitened and losing weight. Ms Searle spilt up with her husband in 2013 after a marriage that lasted only 17 months.

It was a bitter break-up, and Mr Hind (32) was handed a restraining order after sending a series of angry text messages to his ex-wife. Ms Searle had applied for a non-molestation order forbidding him from contacting her or going within 50 metres of her home in Southport.

The Rodgers' split came just 18 months after they were depicted on a fly-on-the-wall documentary as a happily married couple, with the narrator stating: "Rodgers has been with Susan since his teens and remains devoted to her. She's not some trophy wife he picked up after he had attained a bit of fame."
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on July 30, 2015, 01:07:52 AM
102 houses.

aye, just one of the lads.

the boy, despite his lack of talent or humility, has done well for himself.

going forward, he won't starve.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on July 31, 2015, 11:54:54 PM
It's a shame part of his 'makeover' didn't include turning him into a trophy winning manager.

Today he's describing Benteke as a 'bargain'. Talking himself into trouble, again.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 01, 2015, 02:08:57 AM
It's a shame part of his 'makeover' didn't include turning him into a trophy winning manager.

 ;D ;D ;D


Today he's describing Benteke as a 'bargain'. Talking himself into trouble, again.

yes, his mouth always gets him in trouble.

it was so refreshing this summer, with the holidays, not having to listen to his daily press conference utterances.

but the one or two times he was asked about transfers, he did keep quiet.  I suspect he may have been told by the owners, or others at the club, the importance of keeping his big fat gub shut (or words to that effect).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on August 01, 2015, 09:40:20 AM
It's a shame part of his 'makeover' didn't include turning him into a trophy winning manager.

Today he's describing Benteke as a 'bargain'. Talking himself into trouble, again.

Absolutely. I notice Lambert scores 2 goals a couple of hours after signing for West Brom. Maybe the problems that he and Ballotelli etc have had was not to do with them but more to do with our outstanding manager.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 01, 2015, 10:52:03 AM
(http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/2336/956/original.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 01, 2015, 10:54:45 AM
the graphic is not 100 percent correct. 

The Brentmaster General has actually won a trophy, the John Deere 3rd Place Playoff Final Trophy.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 01, 2015, 11:16:28 AM
Worried about Martin.

Come back Mart.  It is always darkest, just before the dawn.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 01, 2015, 01:11:59 PM
Absolutely. I notice Lambert scores 2 goals a couple of hours after signing for West Brom. Maybe the problems that he and Ballotelli etc have had was not to do with them but more to do with our outstanding manager.

Why was he signed? Why wasn't he used properly?

Suarez, gone. Studge, broken. Yet again experience doesn't appear to be an answer to any question posed at Anfield these days.

Rodgers spoke to Danny Murphy about the coaching roll. And there's that word again, experience - or maybe there should be a modified spelling in the Oxford English if used in any context to do with us - lackofexperience.

So he overlooks Segura to appoint a 'token', only to potentially replace that with a 'pundit'.

Victor Meldrew had a word for it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 01, 2015, 04:15:10 PM
Studge, broken. Yet again experience doesn't appear to be an answer to any question posed at Anfield these days.

Rodgers spoke to Danny Murphy about the coaching roll. And there's that word again, experience - or maybe there should be a modified spelling in the Oxford English if used in any context to do with us - lackofexperience.

So he overlooks Segura to appoint a 'token', only to potentially replace that with a 'pundit'.

with our bringing in of several strikers, I wonder if this indicates that Sturridge's injury is more serious than we are led to believe.

And, re Murphy.  Zero experience......to add to the zero experience of our transfer committee, assistant manager, manager, and owners. 

Rodgers' primary focus seems to be on the media - i.e. a media friendly appointment.

I might appoint Danny Murphy or Stanley Collymore, to coach a pub team.....but they are not even experienced enough to coach a championship side, farless the ninth best funded club in the world.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 02, 2015, 03:11:10 PM
with our bringing in of several strikers, I wonder if this indicates that Sturridge's injury is more serious than we are led to believe.

And, re Murphy.  Zero experience......to add to the zero experience of our transfer committee, assistant manager, manager, and owners. 

Rodgers' primary focus seems to be on the media - i.e. a media friendly appointment.

I might appoint Danny Murphy or Stanley Collymore, to coach a pub team.....but they are not even experienced enough to coach a championship side, farless the ninth best funded club in the world.

I wonder what the Latin for 'zero suitability' is. It should be added to our new badge - the Liverbird being replaced by a headless chicken.

Macca is well liked, well thought of by the fans, the media and is a gent. His coaching/managerial record doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny, but it's all about the 'image' it seems.
The substance beneath? Time to subtly change the subject whilst keeping the fingers on both hands crossed.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 02, 2015, 05:09:50 PM
I wonder what the Latin for 'zero suitability' is. It should be added to our new badge - the Liverbird being replaced by a headless chicken.

Macca is well liked, well thought of by the fans, the media and is a gent. His coaching/managerial record doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny, but it's all about the 'image' it seems.

exactly.  All about the image. 

Rodgers is so superficial.....all the depth of a sheet of newspaper.

I still can't get over the notion that he is still in charge.  After the awful season just past, and those bad final weeks, culminating in the 6-1 drubbing at mid-table Stoke, it was just a matter of course, that he would be sacked. 

It makes no sense to me, that he is still in charge.

I sometimes ponder, and ask myself what might have been, if David Moores had sold the club to the middle-eastern buyers.....instead he pulled out and sold to the toxic yanks.

We might today, be sitting on 2 or 3 more league titles.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on August 10, 2015, 04:14:42 PM
Pretty awful game to watch and thank god Coutinho can do what he does.
I thought it was interesting that Gomez started and played pretty well as did the rest of the defense...
Our midfield however didnt look as if they knew what they were doing. Milner and Henderson did the same thing and Lallana did bugger all, Coutinho was fairly nondescript til the goal and Ibe did ok...there didnt seem to be much link up play with Benteke though...so whether Firmino or Can can supply that with Lallana dropped...
3 points but there were still a lot of similarities with last seasons shambles...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on August 10, 2015, 07:49:05 PM
.....but there were still a lot of similarities with last seasons shambles...
   
Spot on.  If it were not for that lovely 'curler' from Coutinho then tbh there was not a lot to shout about.  Apart from our left/right back positions which have been reinforced, the central defensive area is weak.  No doubt we will concede plenty of goals as Bodgers seems to ignore the fact he needs a DM in front of the back four to protect them. 

Rather than having 'New Balance' on our kit, they should change it to 'No Balance'.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 11, 2015, 10:40:18 AM
   
Spot on.  If it were not for that lovely 'curler' from Coutinho then tbh there was not a lot to shout about.  Apart from our left/right back positions which have been reinforced, the central defensive area is weak.  No doubt we will concede plenty of goals as Bodgers seems to ignore the fact he needs a DM in front of the back four to protect them. 

Rather than having 'New Balance' on our kit, they should change it to 'No Balance'.  ;D

In certain Scottish accents 'New Balance' does indeed sound like 'No Balance'. Now how would it have sounded if Shanks had have said it?

It was pretty much typical of an early season match where folk are rusty, still trying to attain true match fitness and sharpness and touch not being what it will be.

We looked like a team with a lot of new faces. The change in coaching staff (though why keep Achterberg) is only going to add to the transitional feel of this season.

I'll settle for 3 points despite the performance, and we somehow managed a clean sheet, though the amount of time and space Glenn Johnson and two of his team mates had was 'heart attack inducing'.

Ultimately, 'we got away with it', and Stoke is a tough place to go. There won't be too many teams come away with 3 points again this season.

However, play like that in any of our upcoming aways and we'll be on the end of a spanking, even Bournemouth will prove to be an embarrassment.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on August 16, 2015, 08:43:44 AM
Hi folks! Been off for a while due to family committments and preparations for the PPC World Championships ( http://www.ppc1500wc2015.se ).

Rusty? Yes. Some new faces? Yes. 3 points at a ground where other will struggle? Indeed.

It seems, however, our main problem from last season and the reason for it remain - create chances and scoring goals. I thought this game displayed already the mistake it was to hand Henderson the armband. Time and again he was found seeking the easy, sideways/slightly backwards 10 m pass, rather than offering presence and compusure in the center of the park. Things improved drastically for the better after Can's introduction.

I'm not worried about Benteke's rather anonymous display. I really thought his presence alone added a dimension we lacked last season. But it is a genuine worry we have such problems freeing up space for Ibe and Lallana. Again, this I relate to our non-existent CM.

Liked the look of Firmino and I thought Clyne was absolutely superb. Good debut by Gomez although he made Enrique look positionally spot on.

Bournemouth will go a long way to show whether we've managed to improve on last year's struggles.

Absolutely devastated to see Rodger's bullying of Sakho.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 16, 2015, 01:45:16 PM
Benteke will prove either a masterstroke or a complete f@ck up on the scale of Carroll and Balotelli - I don't think the judgement will ultimately fall in the middle.

The problem with adding Benteke as a new dimension is that anything he adds in one direction will take away from the overall in another direction and we could end up stuck in the middle not good enough in either mode.

We hadn't re-established a 'style' as such in the final third last season at any point in the season. Suarez defined us and everything automatically followed on from there. We haven't got an initial dimension to add another to. If we had a clearly defined M.O then at least Benteke has something to fit alongside with, whilst adding his strengths on top. As it is, there's a real danger that things will get further muddled, ultimately with no-one quite sure what we're doing and how we're aiming to do it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 16, 2015, 03:17:39 PM
An interesting little article - food for thought or literary indigestion?

http://anfieldindex.com/16217/balancing-liverpool-attack-left-footed-wide-man.html (http://anfieldindex.com/16217/balancing-liverpool-attack-left-footed-wide-man.html)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on August 16, 2015, 09:20:21 PM
An interesting little article - food for thought or literary indigestion?

http://anfieldindex.com/16217/balancing-liverpool-attack-left-footed-wide-man.html (http://anfieldindex.com/16217/balancing-liverpool-attack-left-footed-wide-man.html)

I saw the article, Tes and that kinda connected with something that i had seen watching the palace arsenal game...some player on the left side of the field with the ball at his feet had to pause and put it on his right....pathetic shine-a-light....if i was a football manager i would want players who could play with both feet....i remember in my day i used both...and surely to fork PROFESSIONAL players can do the same...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2015, 06:39:30 PM
I saw the article, Tes and that kinda connected with something that i had seen watching the palace arsenal game...some player on the left side of the field with the ball at his feet had to pause and put it on his right....pathetic shine-a-light....if i was a football manager i would want players who could play with both feet....i remember in my day i used both...and surely to fork PROFESSIONAL players can do the same...

Barticus, it's amazing how many truly one footed pros there are. You'd think in reaching that level that they'd at least be able to use their 'other' foot to a reasonable degree, or at least have the ability to work on it.

George Best was thought by many to be left footed, when he was actually naturally right footed. As a young player he'd worked hard on being able to use his left foot as a he knew he was so much weaker on it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on August 17, 2015, 10:18:35 PM
Another fortunate win, another suggestion we haven't moved one inch on from the spring. We still look as the text-book anti-thesis to the word balance. Outplayed by Bournemouth for long periods of the game at Anfield. Only their poor quality saved our blushes. Totally unacceptable of course. But that's how it will be with this manager and his romantic and idealistic idea about how to play footy. It's so cosy, PC an'all playing a Championship teenager as LB. Such proof or his integrity to refuse to play our best CB because he isn't "his" signing. Yet he harps on about taking decision for the better good of the club and the team. Well, I know Arsene and 60000 gooners will be pleased with his miserable decision making.

Also, the formation. It's fornicating unbelieveable he never learn anything. YOU DON'T HAVE THE MEN TO PLAY THAT KIND OF FOOTY SO WHY fornicating BOTHER!!!??? We didn't win one second ball all game, not for lack of trying but because we're constantly out of position no thanks to that stupid formation of his.

I thought Benteke was fantastic tonight. Whenever involved something creative and productive took place. Coutinho continue to shine. Lallana, our best player last 15, and that for his defensive work. Milner much better today. Skrtel shaky first 15 but good afterwords. Mignolet's a new signing and deffo look the sorts. Assured, well positioned etc.

Very very interesting to see Henderson coming off for Can who I think did great the first 10 minutes after his introduction. He too, became a victim of our dysfunctional formation. It may save us the blushes against minor opposition but I have a gnawing feeling Arsenal will do a Stoke to us next Monday.

If we had a manager who displayed a willingness to learn from his mistakes I would've been rather positive after this start. As it is, this is probably as good as it'll get this season.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on August 17, 2015, 10:35:59 PM
Can't say there isn't much I disagree with that.

I thought Ibe didn't have a great game either tbh. Against the arsenal we certainly need 3 in the midfield.

If Brendan wants to entrust his job by continually playing Lovren then so be it - because his tenure will be ended soon enough.

Martin I disagree with you on one point in Gomez. Certainly he is a centre back by trade and can occasionally play at full back and do a job - like what has done these past two games. I thought against Stoke and tonight defensively he was very good.

As for Clyne well what an upgrade he is on Johnson.

Two full backs who can defend - what a sight to behold!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2015, 10:43:23 PM
I thought Ibe didn't have a great game either tbh.

We're going to have to accept the inconsistencies of a young player with very little first team football. What counts, is he has the right attitude to learning and that will see him progress nicely during the season, especially if the crowd are understanding and supportive at Anfield.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2015, 10:46:03 PM
Against the arsenal we certainly need 3 in the midfield.

This is where we could do with Lucas' experience in alongside Milner and Hendo, and keep it narrow forcing Arsenal to go wide, otherwise they'll stroll through us if they get their passing and movement going.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2015, 10:46:43 PM
As for Clyne well what an upgrade he is on Johnson.

Two full backs who can defend - what a sight to behold!

Amen to that.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2015, 10:50:37 PM
Skrtel shaky first 15 but good afterwords.

Apart from during Steve Clarke's time here, Skrtel for me is pretty much always an accident just around the corner. 
He makes me nervous just watching him, Lord knows what it must like to play alongside him.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2015, 11:06:12 PM
We just have to be grateful that we've won two games now where we played poorly. Rodgers needs to settle on a formation and go with it, the nature of which will change slightly when different personnel are introduced.

For example, a definite 3 of Milner, Hendo and with Lucas in the middle of the two, but sitting slightly deeper, will be set up the same but function differently if Can replaces Lucas.

Likewise a front three of Benteke centrally and the most advanced, with Coutinho and Firmino either side, would function differently if you replaced one of them with Ibe or even Markovic, and differently again if both Ibe and Lallana replaced the Brazillians - it still allows all the players to play in their best positions, but brings variation without changing formation or putting players into positions and roles in which their strengths don't lie.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Sturridge is fit. How does he fit Benteke, Studge, Firmino, Coutinho, Hendo and Milner into the team? Or does he omit one or more?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on August 19, 2015, 02:57:12 PM
How humiliating for a player who is considered by many to be one of the best in the PL to hear we're recieving offers well below the 10 million mark. It would've been harsh even on Lovren.

You can kiss your job goodbye Rodgers as your principles and ego, yet again, preceed the interest of the club.

Sakho is by far our best CB yet I'm sure Rodgers would rather recall Wisdom just to prove his point he don't play committeesignings.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 20, 2015, 11:54:53 AM
What a glorious start.  Six from six.

The infidels have been repelled at the gates of paradise.

Eat my socks.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 20, 2015, 01:55:17 PM
Good to see the U-21s coming back from a two goal lead to draw the mini Derby. The future is safe. Our goal net will never be neglected.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 20, 2015, 01:56:58 PM
Eat my socks.

I'm not quite ready to go searching in the freezer for the Humble Pie though.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 20, 2015, 01:57:57 PM
What a glorious start.  Six from six.

The infidels have been repelled at the gates of paradise.

Eat my socks.

Dude, normality will shortly be resumed at The Emirates.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 20, 2015, 02:06:19 PM
How humiliating for a player who is considered by many to be one of the best in the PL to hear we're recieving offers well below the 10 million mark. It would've been harsh even on Lovren.

You can kiss your job goodbye Rodgers as your principles and ego, yet again, preceed the interest of the club.

Sakho is by far our best CB yet I'm sure Rodgers would rather recall Wisdom just to prove his point he don't play committeesignings.

Lucas looks to be on his way despite Allen being injured and Hendo being a doubt for the Arsenal game.

I could understand Rodgers' point if the 'committee' handed landed him with the 'new Titus Bramble', but as you say Martin, Sakho is our best centre half. How long before it looks like Rodgers has lost the dressing room again?
I don't want to be pessimistic for the Hell of it, but his handling of certain players can't ultimately prove to be morale enhancing.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 21, 2015, 09:53:22 AM
I'm not quite ready to go searching in the freezer for the Humble Pie though.  ;D

 8)

His greatest majesty, Sir Brendan, has been to the mountain-top.  He has seen the promised land.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 21, 2015, 10:08:40 AM
Dude, normality will shortly be resumed at The Emirates.  ;D

 :)

Our glorious owners have bestowed upon us many riches.  It has been a summer of rich harvest.

They have given us a whole new team, and then some. 

Sir Brendan, the man who licked himself to death, has the task of putting the jigsaw together.  Aided by the great former Bournemouth, Doncaster, Crawley, Nottingham Forest and Bristol City honcho, Lord Sean O’Driscoll, the beasts of European football are shaking in their boots.

Year 4 of the Five Year Plan involved selling the entire side, for 30 shillings, and over one summer weekend, on the back of a fag packet, restructuring an entire new team.

Who needs specialist defensive midfielders, like the boy Lucas, when you can get 50 pence for him.

Onwards and upwards.  The infidels are running scared.   

Today Stoke and Bournemouth, tomorrow Leicester city.

 






Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on August 21, 2015, 11:29:01 AM
Lucas looks to be on his way despite Allen being injured and Hendo being a doubt for the Arsenal game.

I could understand Rodgers' point if the 'committee' handed landed him with the 'new Titus Bramble', but as you say Martin, Sakho is our best centre half. How long before it looks like Rodgers has lost the dressing room again?
I don't want to be pessimistic for the Hell of it, but his handling of certain players can't ultimately prove to be morale enhancing.

Indeed, it's like last spring never happened. He just doesn't seem able to learn. By each spurious decision that goes by (and there are plenty to say the least) it's apparent his non-footballing background has shaped his whole mindset to no small degree.

But the fall will be swift and hard. I have no doubt in my mind he will get it all wrong, yet again, at the Emirates. It won't probably be like last spring but I have no doubt in my mind the Arsenal will beat us comfortably with at least a 2 goal margin.

This is truly a chance for Can to prove he's ready for bigger things. Other than that I hope Moreno comes in to replace Gomez.

My starting XI would be something like this:

------------------------Mignolet---------------------

Clyne---------Skrtel-----------Sakho------Moreno

-------------------------Lucas-----------------------

-----------------Milner---------Can-----------------

----------------------Coutinho----------------------

--------------Benteke-----------Ings---------------
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 21, 2015, 01:51:14 PM
8)
 He has seen the promised land.

I wondered what he was doing in Chernobyl.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 21, 2015, 01:52:04 PM
How long before it looks like Rodgers has lost the dressing room again?
I don't want to be pessimistic for the Hell of it, but his handling of certain players can't ultimately prove to be morale enhancing.

we are assuming that he won the dressing room back after the shambles of April and May, Tes.

this summer, he is like a kid in a sweet-shop.  He has bought so much stuff, he doesn't know what to do with it.

A big jigsaw, that he has to put together, successfully, before his time runs out.

But such massive transition takes time to gel (assuming that it ever gels).

I don't think that him or his assistant, have the skills to put all the pieces together.

And I suspect that many in the team have the same doubts. 

There will be many confused players.  I expect some disharmony.

And given our focus on acquiring strikers - I am suspecting Sturridge's injury may be an ongoing long term thing.

The one positive so far - is we have taken maximum points inthe first two games.  This was essential, given the tough games ahead, across the next couple of months.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 21, 2015, 02:25:17 PM
we are assuming that he won the dressing room back after the shambles of April and May, Tes.

Dude, it's a good job your mind is sharper than mine. I'd completely overlooked that not so minor detail.  ;D

It's impossible to fathom his thinking where some of the buying and selling is concerned. If the rumours are to be believed, last Summer was a joint effort of manager and committee, whereas this Summer Rodgers is definitely directing traffic.

We've added attacking players which needed doing in so much that last Summer's batch failed to provide the goals, but midfield still looks weak and do we have the right type of players to fill the roles required. Tightening up defensively obvious reduces the need for as many goals to secure the 3 points, and additionally increases the 'value' of each goal scored, however, I still see a midfield that will be too easily breached, especially if we lose Lucas and are pointlessly relying on Allen staying fit and managing to play nearly every game.

We run the risk of losing continuity in order to accomodate all the attacking players and give each sufficent games to keep them reasonably happy, whilst physically draining the midfielders due to insufficent numbers and cover for the injuries we will invariably suffer.

All I can come up with is that he's going to give the Graveyard Cup a real go this season rather than playing a 'weakened' team and simply fulfilling the fixture, but then we come full circle back to our lack of midfield cover, and that would only deepen the problem.

I'm stumped.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 22, 2015, 06:02:33 PM
I still see a midfield that will be too easily breached, especially if we lose Lucas and are pointlessly relying on Allen staying fit and managing to play nearly every game.

We run the risk of losing continuity in order to accomodate all the attacking players and give each sufficent games to keep them reasonably happy, whilst physically draining the midfielders due to insufficent numbers and cover for the injuries we will invariably suffer.

I'm stumped.  ;D

we're both stmped then.   ;D

I can'tmake a lot of sense of our purchases, beyond the obvious ones.

It seems we have bought a whole new set of players.

It would seem that Henderson and Milner are definite starters in our team - but who is going to cover the defence.  I think letting Lucas go, is close to madness.    Will Can be our defensive midfielder? 

We may end up having a very soft centre - that good teams will exploit.

As with all Roders teams, it looks like we will have to outscore the opposition - score more than they do.

Yes, we won the first two games one-nil.....but we got lucky, and both teams were no great shakes.

Yes, we will get better (as will other teams) as the season progresses.

But I just do not see any great plan.

And it's been bad enough having 2 or 3 players on our books, who are useless and that we can't get rid of (Boroni, Balotelli).  Imagine if this season goes pear-shaped, and we are then trying to get rid of eight to ten players on big contracts?    The club could be in serious financial straits.

We badly need top people at the club to run it.    Without them, the club is going to struggle and be hamstrung with dire purchases, on big contracts, that it can't get sell.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 22, 2015, 06:54:06 PM
we're both stmped then.   ;D

I can'tmake a lot of sense of our purchases, beyond the obvious ones.

It seems we have bought a whole new set of players.

It would seem that Henderson and Milner are definite starters in our team - but who is going to cover the defence.  I think letting Lucas go, is close to madness.    Will Can be our defensive midfielder? 

We may end up having a very soft centre - that good teams will exploit.

As with all Roders teams, it looks like we will have to outscore the opposition - score more than they do.

Yes, we won the first two games one-nil.....but we got lucky, and both teams were no great shakes.

Yes, we will get better (as will other teams) as the season progresses.

But I just do not see any great plan.

And it's been bad enough having 2 or 3 players on our books, who are useless and that we can't get rid of (Boroni, Balotelli).  Imagine if this season goes pear-shaped, and we are then trying to get rid of eight to ten players on big contracts?    The club could be in serious financial straits.

We badly need top people at the club to run it.    Without them, the club is going to struggle and be hamstrung with dire purchases, on big contracts, that it can't get sell.

So allegedly we're signing another attacking midfielder (Henrikh Mkhitaryan) whilst letting our only holding midfielder go out on loan (diminishing his value and leaving us further understrength) at the same time as the guy Rodgers' tries to jemmy into that slot is out injured. A season of misusing Hendo and Milner beckons.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on August 24, 2015, 10:22:53 AM
Ahead of the upcoming EL draw on Friday I had a look at our fixtures following our european games. It turns out we've been dealt a fairly generous hand. 5 of the 6 games will be homegames against fairly decent opposition (Norwhich, So'ton, CP, Swansea and WBA). The tricky one will be the derby following the 2nd EL-game. One could hope, though, that one is a homegame. All in all the EL could've been a much worse distraction I reckon.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 24, 2015, 11:43:24 AM
Ahead of the upcoming EL draw on Friday I had a look at our fixtures following our european games. It turns out we've been dealt a fairly generous hand. 5 of the 6 games will be homegames against fairly decent opposition (Norwhich, So'ton, CP, Swansea and WBA). The tricky one will be the derby following the 2nd EL-game. One could hope, though, that one is a homegame. All in all the EL could've been a much worse distraction I reckon.

Nice one, Martin.

That's a really kind fixture schedule, and whilst there's only potentially Southampton playing Thursday, also in the Uefa Cup, others could have midweek league games. Even if they don't our squad should be strong enough to put up a good team in both competitions, and then there should be the motivation of wanting to winning games and competitions. The Derby should also bring it's own unique motivation.

As well as being a chance to qualify for the CL, the UEFA Cup is a trophy in itself (which is what we should be all about, or at least we used to be), and whilst English clubs seem to look down their nose at it, other countries and players from other countries take it seriously. Surely it helps to attract players if they know we will be trying to qualify for the CL by winning the UEFA Cup, it raises our profile in Europe and players have a European stage to play on, and if not the CL, then what better stage than the UEFA Cup final?

We're one of the most successful teams in it's history, though I think Sevilla have now drawn level, and we should be trying to regain our place as the most successful team in the competition's history. These things used to matter to our club. You try getting away with telling Bob Paisley it didn't matter about being the most successful team in the League Cup's history.

Winning never grows old. I don't care what the competition's called. Us being the winner is all that matters, it's the whole core purpose of us existing.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 24, 2015, 07:25:17 PM
Liverpool: Mignolet, Clyne, Skrtel, Lovren, Gomez, Milner, Can, Lucas, Firmino, Coutinho, Benteke

Subs: Bogdan, Sakho, Moreno, Origi, Ings, Ibe, Rossiter


Looks like it could be:

                               
                              Lucas
                  Milner              Can     
    Firmino                                   Coutinho 
                           Benteke     

4-3-3 with a split 3 man midfield

Or:

                            Lucas
     
         Milner                                Can       
                         
                        Countinho 

                     Firmino
                                 Benteke


A midfield diamond with Firmino just off Benteke. Of course we could see Mignolet leading the attack, with Benteke as the powerful ball winner sitting in front of the defence, being marshalled by Coutinho.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on August 24, 2015, 08:50:36 PM
Looks like Bodgers has stumbled across a side that is actually looking balanced!  Can and Leiva controlling midfield and Coutinho causing the Gunners all sorts of problems.  We should be 1 or 2 up if it were not for a couple of cracking saves from Cech.

Looking forward to the 2nd half.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 24, 2015, 10:14:49 PM
A point gained or two dropped?  ;D

Considering our performances so far this season and our record at The Emirates, I'll go for a point gained.

7 from 9 was probably the absolute best we could have hoped for.

3 clean sheets and shutting out probably the league's best attack. Blood E Hell!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 25, 2015, 10:29:18 AM
The infidels had no answers last night.

The non-believers were punished in a first half of one way traffic.

Eat my socks.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 25, 2015, 10:57:55 AM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/18/09/2B6FB7BD00000578-0-image-a-1_1439885893639.jpg)

Borini makes the lineup for OK
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 25, 2015, 11:05:20 AM
So allegedly we're signing another attacking midfielder (Henrikh Mkhitaryan) whilst letting our only holding midfielder go out on loan (diminishing his value and leaving us further understrength) at the same time as the guy Rodgers' tries to jemmy into that slot is out injured. A season of misusing Hendo and Milner beckons.

exactly.

the first half we boss Arsenal.  Lucas, despite not having played the first three games of the season, was magnificent.

I can see why Lucas would be peeved.  He has never got the respect that he deserved.

And he is probably now our most senior player at the club.   He was brought in many years ago.  So to not get a nod for the vice-captain position, and not even to be in the squad for the first three games, must be difficult to stomach.   When your employer treats you like that,  all the signs are there, that you have no future at the organisation.

Great player, a gentleman. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 25, 2015, 11:09:43 AM
Mario Balotelli is on the brink of re-joining AC Milan on a season-long loan after arriving for a medical on Tuesday morning.

Milan, who sold Balotelli to Liverpool for £16million, will not have to pay a loan fee for the 25-year-old and it is understood that Liverpool will pay half of the salary he will receive at the San Siro – a figure which is likely to be in the region of £2.5million.
------------------------------------------------------------------

this must be the best piece of business EVER in the history of AC Milan.

And all these Italian clubs, they want to take our players on loan, while we continue to pay most of their wages.   And they tease us with a yarn, that they will buy the player at the end of the one year loan, for some reduced fee.  But of course, once the loan is up, they never buy.   

Great way of getting players services on the cheap.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2015, 11:21:21 AM
exactly.

the first half we boss Arsenal.  Lucas, despite not having played the first three games of the season, was magnificent.

I can see why Lucas would be peeved.  He has never got the respect that he deserved.

And he is probably now our most senior player at the club.   He was brought in many years ago.  So to not get a nod for the vice-captain position, and not even to be in the squad for the first three games, must be difficult to stomach.   When your employer treats you like that,  all the signs are there, that you have no future at the organisation.

Great player, a gentleman.

Dude, the problem with the combination of modern media, modern life in general and football fans is that they need all 11 players to 'stand out' and in a 'glamourous' way.
Lucas is what I've called before, a catalyst player. What he does allows others a platform. He facilitates 'the team', but it's in a way that's too subtle for too many to see and understand. Milner is a similar player only playing a bit more advanced.
Our results with and without Lucas have consistently spoken for themselves. Something's not a coincidence if it happens repeatedly.

With Gerrard gone, Lucas should be coming into his own, potentially being the master to Can's apprenticeship but also allowing Can to develop what he already has in competition/cover with Hendo and Milner.
Unless we can buy a genuine upgrade on Lucas then he has to stay.
We've maligned Dalglish, and rightly so, but Dalglish totally understood Lucas and played him in a position and a way that brought the best out of him during the 'caretaker period'. Unfortunately, the lesson hasn't been learned and even Dalglish forgot it the next season.

He's a proper Liverpool player, and great role model, as player and man. It's so sad the guy seems destined to always be under appreciated at the club.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2015, 11:24:08 AM
Mario Balotelli is on the brink of re-joining AC Milan on a season-long loan after arriving for a medical on Tuesday morning.

Milan, who sold Balotelli to Liverpool for £16million, will not have to pay a loan fee for the 25-year-old and it is understood that Liverpool will pay half of the salary he will receive at the San Siro – a figure which is likely to be in the region of £2.5million.
------------------------------------------------------------------

this must be the best piece of business EVER in the history of AC Milan.

And all these Italian clubs, they want to take our players on loan, while we continue to pay most of their wages.   And they tease us with a yarn, that they will buy the player at the end of the one year loan, for some reduced fee.  But of course, once the loan is up, they never buy.   

Great way of getting players services on the cheap.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Some lessons never seem  to get learned at our club. It makes you wonder how long it took some folk to learn how to write their name when they started school.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 26, 2015, 06:31:50 PM
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Some lessons never seem  to get learned at our club. It makes you wonder how long it took some folk to learn how to write their name when they started school.

in any other organisation, where such massive amount of millions are lost because of poor decision-making (re a purchase) heads would roll, Tes.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 26, 2015, 06:36:58 PM
Dude, the problem with the combination of modern media, modern life in general and football fans is that they need all 11 players to 'stand out' and in a 'glamourous' way.
Lucas is what I've called before, a catalyst player. What he does allows others a platform. He facilitates 'the team', but it's in a way that's too subtle for too many to see and understand. Milner is a similar player only playing a bit more advanced.
Our results with and without Lucas have consistently spoken for themselves. Something's not a coincidence if it happens repeatedly.

With Gerrard gone, Lucas should be coming into his own, potentially being the master to Can's apprenticeship but also allowing Can to develop what he already has in competition/cover with Hendo and Milner.
Unless we can buy a genuine upgrade on Lucas then he has to stay.
We've maligned Dalglish, and rightly so, but Dalglish totally understood Lucas and played him in a position and a way that brought the best out of him during the 'caretaker period'. Unfortunately, the lesson hasn't been learned and even Dalglish forgot it the next season.

He's a proper Liverpool player, and great role model, as player and man. It's so sad the guy seems destined to always be under appreciated at the club.

agreed, Tes. 

Very few folk really understand football, or even take the time to try.

As you say, people like Lucas do unseen, but essential (and highly skilled) work.....as you say, he is a catalyst.

Lucas, for my money, should have been made vice-captain (admittedly Milner is a great lad too).  And Lucas should be the perfect mentor for the young Can to learn from.

I often played in front of defence, breaking things up.....and would have given my right arm to learn from masters like Lucas or Deiter Hamann.

And yet, Rodgers is happy to alienate and see the lad leave.  You cannot buy that type of experience, that such lads have.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on August 26, 2015, 06:48:51 PM
agreed, Tes. 

Very few folk really understand football, or even take the time to try.

As you say, people like Lucas do unseen, but essential (and highly skilled) work.....as you say, he is a catalyst.

Lucas, for my money, should have been made vice-captain (admittedly Milner is a great lad too).  And Lucas should be the perfect mentor for the young Can to learn from.

I often played in front of defence, breaking things up.....and would have given my right arm to learn from masters like Lucas or Deiter Hamann.

And yet, Rodgers is happy to alienate and see the lad leave.  You cannot buy that type of experience, that such lads have.

Incredibly Dude, Bodgers has seen the light and turned down the Beskitas Lucas transfer. After watching Lucas carve up Arsenal on monday night he has decided on a u-turn. Maybe after the Stoke thrashing, Bodgers has been going to bed with books like 'lessons in humility' and 'how to create a balanced team'. It might slowly be sinking in.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 27, 2015, 12:54:26 PM
Incredibly Dude, Bodgers has seen the light and turned down the Beskitas Lucas transfer. After watching Lucas carve up Arsenal on monday night he has decided on a u-turn. Maybe after the Stoke thrashing, Bodgers has been going to bed with books like 'lessons in humility' and 'how to create a balanced team'. It might slowly be sinking in.

it may well be, Bart.

Rodgers is either reacting to media and fans reaction, after Monday night's game......OR, he never wanted Lucas to leave in the first place (i.e. instead the player, unhappy, was wanting to leave to get playing time somewhere).

Re balance, the key test will be, can we score goals, when we are not conceding them.   Then we will really know if we have proper balance.

But very impressive to date, defensively.   If we get our offensive players functioning, and Benteke is proving a real handful for the opposition,  then we will hopefully start to score a few goals. 

This willbe Continho's big year (where depressingly, we fatten him for next summer's market).

Can will improve.  And I am keen to see how big a star Firmini can be.   If he clicks with Continho and Benteke, that will be the key to our season, offensively.






Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 27, 2015, 01:30:32 PM
(http://i4.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article9935811.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/balotelli.jpg)

There was something on the other side of the dressing room at Melwood which caught Mario Balotelli’s eye.

When the Italian striker asked what a team-mate was holding, he was informed it was the new iPhone 6.

Balotelli, not yet in possession of Apple’s latest smartphone, was visibly irked according to observers.

Moments later he trooped out on to the training field to take part in the warm-up but within minutes he pulled up complaining of discomfort in his hamstring. Staff sent him straight back inside to be checked out by the medics.

When the Liverpool squad returned to the dressing room at the end of the session 90 minutes later, they were surprised by what greeted them.

There was a beaming Balotelli sat in the corner, with a new iPhone 6 in his hand and a few spares boxed up next to him. One of his minions had been hastily dispatched to do some shopping. The pain in his hamstring had miraculously eased.

It’s one of countless anecdotes which explain why Liverpool were so desperate to get Balotelli out of the door this summer.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 29, 2015, 03:51:16 PM
bad day at black rock.

bad first half.

0-2 down at Anfield to West Ham (the team with their 4 main trikers unavailable today).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 29, 2015, 04:01:45 PM
Kop booed them off at half time.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 29, 2015, 04:59:36 PM
0-3

defence truly atrocious today.

Rodgers can't be far from getting his P45.

Atrocious, and at home, against a team that has spent peanuts this summer....and had no fit strikers available.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 29, 2015, 05:55:30 PM
Re balance, the key test will be, can we score goals, when we are not conceding them.   

But we can sure as Hell concede when we're not scoring them.

2 goals in four games. So far our goalscoring woes from last season seem to be stuck fast, whilst the Keystone Cops defending rears it's head again, 4 games in.

I don't think they'll be reaching for a blank P45 to fill out just yet, but I'd imagine the owners will be checking to make sure Ancelotti's and Klopp's phone numbers are at hand, and checking how near they are to the end of their individual sabbaticals.

It's the worst possible time to happen before a two week break, and with the Mancs away, up next. He's going to need an undefeated September, with two homes in the league against Norwich and Villa and the League Cup banana skin against Carlisle. Only Bordeaux away in the UEFA Cup looks like it has no shadow cast by it, and even then we'll need to start our UEFA Cup campaign with a good result (avoiding defeat at the very least.

Having faced both Everton and Spurs away before then in October, Chelsea away on the 31st October could prove to be the climax of Rodger's horror show and prove to be his real life nightmare Halloween. I wonder if he'll even reach a Winter of Discontent, with Palace (victors at Chelsea today) and Swansea at home, the sandwich with Man City as the filling in between those two on the menu for November.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on August 29, 2015, 06:08:44 PM
'With a 63% effective possession rating all teams should win by at least 2 goals.' -Brendan Rodgers

Reality. Oh.

Can we sack him off now please?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on August 29, 2015, 07:55:53 PM
Outstanding.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 29, 2015, 08:49:42 PM
in a field of his own.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on August 29, 2015, 08:51:50 PM
in a field of his own.

Preferably a mine field.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on August 29, 2015, 09:12:34 PM
Shocking display to say the least. You'd be forgiven for thinking we've entered a time warp and ended up in August 2012. Our skill level is so poor we look unable to break any professional side down at the moment.

Again, we played like boys when men were needed. Benteke must ask more of himself than this. Firmino too. Gomez is only Young but clearly not the man for LB. Lovren, ah well.

This is how it will look throughout the sesason and I seriously Believe we will win no more than 5 homegames. We'll get beat by most teams previously coming to Anfield in the hope of a goalless draw. I said in April we'll finish no higher than 8 this season if Rodgers are allowed to continue his mismanagement of the team and the squad. There's nothing, absolutely nothing, there to counter that.

Congrats United!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on August 30, 2015, 08:18:01 AM
I don't think they'll be reaching for a blank P45 to fill out just yet, but I'd imagine the owners will be checking to make sure Ancelotti's and Klopp's phone numbers are at hand.

It's the worst possible time to happen before a two week break, and with the Mancs away, up next. He's going to need an undefeated September, with two homes in the league against Norwich and Villa and the League Cup banana skin against Carlisle.

Having faced both Everton and Spurs away before then in October, Chelsea away on the 31st October could prove to be the climax of Rodger's horror show and prove to be his real life nightmare Halloween.

like you, Tes, I wonder if Rodgers will even reach Christmas.

the horror show could get a whole lot worse.

we do not have real balance (at least, as yet)....and one sees that when we need to take the game to the opposition (which is typically what a home team does).  West Ham, like others will do, sat back in numbers, and counter attacked us.   It wasn't even as if they attacked at high pace, or had top strikers.  Scary.    Imagine if we were playing a top team at Anfield.  We would be expected to be on the front foot, and having a go......but with this poorly put together side, we could get embarrassed.

It was always a big ask, bringing in a whole lot of new players, and getting them to gel quickly (in time, to save Rodgers job). 

But it was central defenders who let us down yesterday.  Were they not getting sufficient protection from a poorly performing midfield.  I dunno.  I have not analysed the video footage sufficiently to judge.   I think we missed Henderon badly yesterday.   I am a fan of the big workload the guy gets through every game.  We missed his industry in the middle of the park.

Many blamed Skytrel for a poor header for the first goal.  I did not see a lot wrong with his header.  But he was poor for the third goal (backing off, backing off).  And the second goal, in front of the Kop, was very embarrassing.  Lovren, messed up, and right in front of the Kop.   The lad seems to not have the ability, or at least the mental composure/concentration, to play at this level.  I susoect we will see him dropped.

United - away - up next. 

We could be in the end days.  Another good thumping, and we are back to the dark scenario of Stoke in May.  Whatever our ignorant arrogant owners think, the fans will begin to make it impossible for the circus to continue.  The boos and the large numbers of folk leaving, long before the end, will be impossible for the yanks to ignore.

The game is almost up for the man who threatens to lick himself to death.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on August 30, 2015, 02:27:30 PM
Bilic's Besiktas dealt easily with us last season in the UEFA Cup and now his West Ham team. I think Bilic already has Rodgers worked out.

The thing is most teams who will finish outside the Top 5 will go to every team in the Top 5, and sit and look to deny space, centrally and in behind. It's defending 101 in that situation.

As Rodgers doesn't understand the defensive side of the game, it makes it harder to see the flaws and opportunities in an opponent's defensive setup . For a team that basically came only looking for a clean sheet, it makes it even more embarassing that we conceded 3 goals against them.

Players who are confident in knowing what they are doing and have been well drilled, make fewer individual errors. Individual errrors seem to happen when a player feels unsure and uncertain, and that causes mistakes, even fundemental ones. Their mind is too busy trying to sort out what they should be doing, instead of being able to focus on actually doing it.

Rodgers likes to play the 'individual errors' card as though it is something in isolation and can't possibly reflect on team setup and preparation and therefore distances it from being anything to do with him. The problem with that is 'individual errors' are not in isolation or are they something new to any individual defender that has played under Rodgers since he's been here. There's a pattern of these things occuring regularly and the ones that get punished obviously are the ones that get highlighted, but there are plenty of others that don't, but they're still there. Comfortable is simply not a word that ever comes to mind when watching our defenders as individuals or the collective workings of our team when we're without the ball and put under even the slightest of pressure.

He's tried to explain yesterday's result as: "Four out of the seven teams have lost at home on Saturday and up until yesterday there were six home wins in 30 matches so it will be difficult to get your home wins in."

Winners take advantage of weakness in others. They don't console themselves with possessing the same weaknesses.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on August 31, 2015, 10:20:26 AM
Indeed! Very well put Tes. I am baffled, to say the very least, he doesn't seem able to learn and improve. And that quote in your post has Hodgson written all over it if I may say.

In previous seasons "lesser" teams knew they stood a good chance at winning a point at Anfield by working hard and defending with numbers. I have this gnawing feeling they now travel to Anfield confident of scoring a goal and keeping a clean sheet.

I also do no see the wisdom of keeping the exact same starting line-up from the Arsenal game for this one, as if the same questions was asked from the players in both games. Was there always a need for a holding midfielder against West Ham? Wasn't it apparent after 20 minutes we'd rather need a 2nd striker up front? A 4-4-2 formation would've given us a completely different balance in this game. Instead, Rodgers chose to go for 3-6-1 thereby disrupting whatever structure and balance there were in the first half.

It'll be a long and very painful season. My prediction from May stand: We'll finish no higher than 8 and we won't win more than 33 % of our homegames until Rodgers is replaced by a proper manager.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 03, 2015, 08:14:54 PM
Official registered Premier League squad:

25 Squad players (*=Home grown)

*Allen, Joseph Michael
Barbosa de Oliveira, Roberto Firmino
Benteke, Christian
Bogdan, Adam
*Clyne, Nathaniel Edwin
Coutinho Correia, Philippe
*Flanagan, Jonathan
*Henderson, Jordan Brian
*Ings, Daniel William John
*Lallana, Adam David
Lovren, Dejan
Mignolet, Simon
*Milner, James Philip
Moreno Perez, Alberto
Pezzini Leiva, Lucas
Sakho, Mamadou
Sanchez Diaz, Jose Enrique
Skrtel, Martin
*Sturridge, Daniel
Teixeira, Joao Carlos
Toure, Kolo Abib

* = homegrown players

Apologies for the odd name layout, I just c + p'ed it.

Gomez, Can and Ibe are in the under-21 squad and don't need to be registered in the 25 in order to be eligible for the PL. It also frees up places in the 25 doing it this way.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 03, 2015, 08:23:11 PM
Molby's view on last Saturday's 'hammering':

Jan Molby: Liverpool FC picked wrong team and used wrong tactics against West Ham

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/jan-molby-liverpool-fc-picked-9985067 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/jan-molby-liverpool-fc-picked-9985067)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 04, 2015, 05:56:43 PM
I've been away for a couple of weeks so no chance to vent my feelings to apart from Martin via facebook!!  ;D

Truly a shambolic display against West Ham. Since August 2012 we have not improved defensively one iota. We have spent millions on average defenders. Playing Lovren ahead of Sakho because Brendan bought the former and the T.C. bought the latter smacks of complete arrogance, when the fact of the matter is Sakho is better than Lovren in all facets of the game.

To put it as simply as this if I was in a job for 5 years and I get making the same mistake time after time after time again and have been given resources available to get better that that task, but haven't done so, then I'd expect the sack and rightfully so.

That Brendan doesn't understand that we NEED a defensive midfielder to protect the back 4 and to re-start attacks by a simple square ball or forward pass to a team-mate is simply mind-boggling. Even the mighty fuc*ing Barcelona play with a damn Defensive midfielder.

The funny thing is though that this squad of players are as good as the mancs and almost as good as the Arsenal. However those two teams have managers that understand the nature of the game and how to play and doing so in a not so naive way.

I think a bad October could be the end of him.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 07, 2015, 09:58:23 AM
I've been away for a couple of weeks so no chance to vent my feelings to apart from Martin via facebook!!  ;D

Truly a shambolic display against West Ham. Since August 2012 we have not improved defensively one iota. We have spent millions on average defenders. Playing Lovren ahead of Sakho because Brendan bought the former and the T.C. bought the latter smacks of complete arrogance, when the fact of the matter is Sakho is better than Lovren in all facets of the game.

To put it as simply as this if I was in a job for 5 years and I get making the same mistake time after time after time again and have been given resources available to get better that that task, but haven't done so, then I'd expect the sack and rightfully so.

That Brendan doesn't understand that we NEED a defensive midfielder to protect the back 4 and to re-start attacks by a simple square ball or forward pass to a team-mate is simply mind-boggling. Even the mighty fuc*ing Barcelona play with a damn Defensive midfielder.

The funny thing is though that this squad of players are as good as the mancs and almost as good as the Arsenal. However those two teams have managers that understand the nature of the game and how to play and doing so in a not so naive way.

I think a bad October could be the end of him.

I agree with all of that Edward. However, like Mölby and even Tomkins (did I just refer to Tomkins?), I think his biggest flaw thus far was to stick with the same team for both gamed. It says quite a lot about his approach and understanding of the game, but also about his inability to properly analyse opponents and prepare his own team. More and more it seems he invest all his hope in hitting another of those run we endured when we challenged for the title. Idealism and naivety at its worst.

I would agree a poor October will see the end of his reign. I will always wonder whether there were any non-financial motives behind FSG's decision to stick with him and, if that's the case, what those were.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on September 07, 2015, 11:47:02 AM
Martin, one of the biggest issue's imho is that we don't have any real footballing knowledge at board level.  What astounds me the most is that the 'common man' can see what Rodgers limitations are but the individuals responsible for the club cannot.  How long will it take for them to realize that challenging for the top honors under Rodgers is nothing more than a pipe dream? 

We have a number of critical games in October, Man U away (loss), Norwich at home (win), Villa at home (draw), Everton away (loss), Spurs away (draw), Southampton at home (draw) and Chelsea away (loss).  I see us gaining a maximum of 6 points out of a possible 21 imo during the October period.  I doubt however that a poor October would see the back of Rodgers.  I think Christmas will be the time when he is given an appraisal on his performance by the Yanks.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 08, 2015, 12:31:31 AM
I've been away for a couple of weeks so no chance to vent my feelings to apart from Martin via facebook!!  ;D

Truly a shambolic display against West Ham. Since August 2012 we have not improved defensively one iota. We have spent millions on average defenders. Playing Lovren ahead of Sakho because Brendan bought the former and the T.C. bought the latter smacks of complete arrogance, when the fact of the matter is Sakho is better than Lovren in all facets of the game.

To put it as simply as this if I was in a job for 5 years and I get making the same mistake time after time after time again and have been given resources available to get better that that task, but haven't done so, then I'd expect the sack and rightfully so.

That Brendan doesn't understand that we NEED a defensive midfielder to protect the back 4 and to re-start attacks by a simple square ball or forward pass to a team-mate is simply mind-boggling. Even the mighty fuc*ing Barcelona play with a damn Defensive midfielder.

The funny thing is though that this squad of players are as good as the mancs and almost as good as the Arsenal. However those two teams have managers that understand the nature of the game and how to play and doing so in a not so naive way.

I think a bad October could be the end of him.

looks like the dude hacked Edward's account and posted the above.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 08, 2015, 12:32:27 AM
I agree with all of that Edward. However, like Mölby and even Tomkins (did I just refer to Tomkins?), I think his biggest flaw thus far was to stick with the same team for both gamed. It says quite a lot about his approach and understanding of the game, but also about his inability to properly analyse opponents and prepare his own team. More and more it seems he invest all his hope in hitting another of those run we endured when we challenged for the title. Idealism and naivety at its worst.

I would agree a poor October will see the end of his reign.

And the dude also found Marty's password dead easy. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 08, 2015, 08:45:32 AM
Martin, one of the biggest issue's imho is that we don't have any real footballing knowledge at board level.  What astounds me the most is that the 'common man' can see what Rodgers limitations are but the individuals responsible for the club cannot.  How long will it take for them to realize that challenging for the top honors under Rodgers is nothing more than a pipe dream?

Indeed, that's my main gripe as well. What was the incentive to keep him beyond last season? Surely, anyone could see the team didn't turn up for him? Surely, anyone can see we still suffer from the same flaws we did in September 2012?

The optimist in me is saying they already struck a deal with Klopp, who requested a break, thus keeping Rodgers in the mean while. The pessimist (realist) say financial considerations preceed footballing dito and it makes fiscal sense to keep Rodgers, period.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 08, 2015, 01:35:13 PM
The optimist in me is saying they already struck a deal with Klopp, who requested a break, thus keeping Rodgers in the mean while. The pessimist (realist) say financial considerations preceed footballing dito and it makes fiscal sense to keep Rodgers, period.

I hope you are right, Martin (re Klopp).

But like you I suspect it is other reasons.  I think the owners are arrogantly ignorant and control freaks.

It's much easier to control a youngster like Rodgers, who is in a job well above his abilities.

They know feck all about football, but still persist with their ideas and blueprint.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 09, 2015, 10:11:38 AM
I hope you are right, Martin (re Klopp).

But like you I suspect it is other reasons.  I think the owners are arrogantly ignorant and control freaks.

It's much easier to control a youngster like Rodgers, who is in a job well above his abilities.

They know feck all about football, but still persist with their ideas and blueprint.

They are first and foremost businessmen. That's what footy's all about these days. They are not the problem, the capitalization and the subsequent commercialization of footy is.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 09, 2015, 10:13:54 AM
Oh, and I want my password back!

 :-X
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 09, 2015, 06:34:42 PM
 :) :)

Wiki-Dude, el king hacker, is hiding out in the Irish embassy.   

Yes, modern gootball worships at the altar of big money.  It is depressing.  I have lost most of my love for the game.

But if our yankee owners want a financial return, they need a successful team......and a kid like Rodgers will never deliver it.

I sometimes wish what would have happened if Moores had sold, o the Middle Eastern buyers (as he had planned to originally). 

Or if the City buyers had instead bought Liverpool. 

For a club that dominated England and Europe for a generation, we have had very few ultra rich suitors.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 10, 2015, 11:18:18 AM
Get the feeling the tide is turning for LVG. Rumours of player rebellion etc. make this a good time to visit OT you'd be inclined  to think. Imagine another lacklustre and uninspired performance from Rodgers men, ending up in defeat.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 10, 2015, 12:53:23 PM
Imagine another lacklustre and uninspired performance from Rodgers men, ending up in defeat.

yes, that is my guess too.

Rodgers is one major defeat away from the abyss  IMHO.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 12, 2015, 01:01:32 PM
looks like the dude hacked Edward's account and posted the above.

Class.  ;D

I had to read it twice, then check the name three times. To give Edward his due, he's shown a greater degree of patience/hope/optimism than I've been able to muster for Rodgers.

It just gets so damned tiring seeing the same mistakes happening repeatedly, and now we're into his 4th season, and despite three clean sheets, we still only make it to the 4th game before conceding the crucial two or more goals, and at home, and to a team with a new manager and new players.

Is it arrogance, a blind spot or just a complete lack of knowledge? It's hard to tell, but whichever way, the bottom line is still the same.
The owners have given him plenty of support and financial backing, and that's to be admired, but the lack of 'football men' on the board could explain it differently, but again, the bottom line is the same.

One slight positive from FSG's treatment of Rodgers is that they must seem attractive 'bosses' to work for for other potential managers.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 12, 2015, 04:36:22 PM
I expect the mancs to win by 2 or 3 goals today. We'll give Martial a superb debut by giving him space and time on the ball. Rooney to score as well. Then one of their midfielders to finish us off. 3-0 or 4-1.

Brendan will then talk about the great character we showed in the game and that Lovren has great character and will come back from being thrown around pillar to post by the mancs.

Benteke will have no support and will look like a £3.5m player and Firmino will get thrown to the wolves and be out numbered.

We'll play two in the middle and wonder why they'll have an extra man in midfield.

Oh and we'll get one great chance but De Gea will pull off a great save. As per usual.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 12, 2015, 08:15:21 PM
I expect the mancs to win by 2 or 3 goals today. We'll give Martial a superb debut by giving him space and time on the ball. Rooney to score as well. Then one of their midfielders to finish us off. 3-0 or 4-1.

Brendan will then talk about the great character we showed in the game and that Lovren has great character and will come back from being thrown around pillar to post by the mancs.

Benteke will have no support and will look like a £3.5m player and Firmino will get thrown to the wolves and be out numbered.

We'll play two in the middle and wonder why they'll have an extra man in midfield.

Oh and we'll get one great chance but De Gea will pull off a great save. As per usual.

Looks like I'll be doing my good samaritan burglar bit on chez Edward too.

Depressingly obvious how these things go though isn't? It'll be a long Autumn and Winter if Rodgers is still at the helm of the HMS Anfield.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 12, 2015, 08:46:51 PM
As I said in May, a top 10 finish will be a tremendous achievement this season.

All I hope is this speed things up.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 13, 2015, 11:52:54 AM
I was right - as I thought I would be.

I mean I don't know where to begin with that performance. I haven't the strength to muster my absolute disdain about it. All I'll say that it was disgraceful.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 13, 2015, 12:04:28 PM
That's 5 wins in 28 games against 'top four' clubs, that includes 2 wins against Moyes's United which should not count, also 2 wins when we were challenging for the title (otherwise 1 in 18 in the other 2 seasons)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 13, 2015, 12:09:29 PM
I was right - as I thought I would be.

I really have to stop hacking Edward's account and posting stuff under his name.

 :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 13, 2015, 12:14:25 PM
Class.  ;D

I had to read it twice, then check the name three times. To give Edward his due, he's shown a greater degree of patience/hope/optimism than I've been able to muster for Rodgers.

 :)

same here.

I cannot muster any motivation or hope either.

And as Edward says above, our record aganst top 4 teams is abysmal.....one win in 18 games (when we discount Moyes United games).  And when we play in Europe, he is also out-played.

It indicates that Rodgers, tactic-wise, is way way out of his depth.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 13, 2015, 12:15:30 PM
Ancelotti or Klopp?

Or someone else?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 13, 2015, 01:25:34 PM
"Judge me after 3 years"  - Well I am - its time to go
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on September 13, 2015, 01:30:51 PM
Ancelotti or Klopp?

Or someone else?

Aye, Stevie G for Chief Executive, Director of Football, Chief Scout, Club Doctor, Head of Physio, Chief of Tactical Analysis and 1st team coach/manager 😘.

Once we have this in place all our worries will disappear 🙈🙈🙈
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 13, 2015, 02:27:00 PM
Aye, Stevie G for Chief Executive, Director of Football, Chief Scout, Club Doctor, Head of Physio, Chief of Tactical Analysis and 1st team coach/manager 😘.

Once we have this in place all our worries will disappear 🙈🙈🙈

Does Carra get to be the kit man?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 13, 2015, 03:15:24 PM
There really is an inevitability about this season as there was about last season too.

It's pretty clear that our be-lated title challenge was 100% Suarez inspired, with his team mates being swept along with him.

How much influence did Rodgers have? I think it's pretty self evident.

We needed him to tighten the defence, as it would at some point be our undoing, and bring a bit of control and discipline - and we all know what his response was.

We can't defend, yet neither it seems, despite the amount of money spent on attacking talent over the last two Summers, can't we create chances and score goals. The further the squad has moved from what he inherited, the worse our performances have been.

I don't believe we have a poor squad, but we have a poorly utilised squad.

 I don't think the axe will fall before November. It gives Rodgers time to demonstrate this is just a slow start (again) and that would be more than fair from the owners, but also gives time to sound out the replacement and not make hasty decisions - I imagine that process is under way already.

It shows the folly of not doing your apprenticeship as a manager.

My only worry is that they would go for a young up and comer, rather than someone with a track record. If FFP is to be relaxed, then it's vital we get experience and get back into, and cement our place in the Top Four before we're locked out forever. We don't have time for another learning curve.

Ancelotti ticks every box, including a proven successful track record in the Premier League and repeated success across a number of clubs and in different countries - the two things that count against Klopp.

Like some players, some managers just thrive at a certain club. Is Dortmund Klopp's perfect fit, or can he repeat that somewhere else?

De Boer's an outside bet. He looks like he's ready to grow as a manager, but it's that word 'potential' again.

I like everything about Ancelotti. He's the Italian Bobby Robson, and my feelings about him and the part he should have played in our club is well enough documented on here.

It's hard to see a case for any other manager and to feel confident that our club presents a big enough reason for any other suitable candidate to 'jump ship'.

I'm convinced about Guardiola's abilities, just not in the PL. There's Massimiliano Allegri at Juve, who's done wonders there, but despite reaching last season CL final, again I have my doubts about the PL.
Ancelotti's style of football has never been the typical Italian way, it's certainly not contemporary catenaccio, but then true catenaccio isn't quite the dull 1-0 shop shutting that has been associated with Italian teams.

So starts the exercise of summoning up some excitement for our next game, despite all the reasons to be the opposite. The one thing that allows it is my determination not to let Rodgers destroy all the emotions I've held dear about our club for all these decades.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Ed on September 13, 2015, 05:09:45 PM
My, my, first page of the RAWK thread on United game reminds
me of the more cynical amongst us on the pre-Brendan appointment
debate. Seems they're over 3 years behind!

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=322898.0

Meanwhile, some easy fixtures coming up, so the course of the season should not
become apparent 'til the fixtures against Spurs, Everton and Chelsea (no doubt by
then scrambling back up the table with a point to prove by then) in October.

I think the fanbase need to be studying Everton in this early part of the season
and forgetting about the elite clubs. Everton provide a reasonable barometer in
terms of our progress.

The point being that the narcissism, delusion and subsequent hopelessness
stems from unsuitable comparisons with Arsenal, United, Chelsea and City.
We simply do not have the class of manager, resources or structures that those
clubs enjoy.

Everton are the club which provide a true measure of our reality. We should be
looking at things like their young centre-half and asking questions about how we
compare across the board.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 13, 2015, 08:54:06 PM
There really is an inevitability about this season as there was about last season too.

It's pretty clear that our be-lated title challenge was 100% Suarez inspired, with his team mates being swept along with him.

How much influence did Rodgers have? I think it's pretty self evident.

We needed him to tighten the defence, as it would at some point be our undoing, and bring a bit of control and discipline - and we all know what his response was.

We can't defend, yet neither it seems, despite the amount of money spent on attacking talent over the last two Summers, can't we create chances and score goals. The further the squad has moved from what he inherited, the worse our performances have been.

I don't believe we have a poor squad, but we have a poorly utilised squad.

 I don't think the axe will fall before November. It gives Rodgers time to demonstrate this is just a slow start (again) and that would be more than fair from the owners, but also gives time to sound out the replacement and not make hasty decisions - I imagine that process is under way already.

It shows the folly of not doing your apprenticeship as a manager.

My only worry is that they would go for a young up and comer, rather than someone with a track record. If FFP is to be relaxed, then it's vital we get experience and get back into, and cement our place in the Top Four before we're locked out forever. We don't have time for another learning curve.

Ancelotti ticks every box, including a proven successful track record in the Premier League and repeated success across a number of clubs and in different countries - the two things that count against Klopp.

Like some players, some managers just thrive at a certain club. Is Dortmund Klopp's perfect fit, or can he repeat that somewhere else?

De Boer's an outside bet. He looks like he's ready to grow as a manager, but it's that word 'potential' again.

I like everything about Ancelotti. He's the Italian Bobby Robson, and my feelings about him and the part he should have played in our club is well enough documented on here.

It's hard to see a case for any other manager and to feel confident that our club presents a big enough reason for any other suitable candidate to 'jump ship'.

I'm convinced about Guardiola's abilities, just not in the PL. There's Massimiliano Allegri at Juve, who's done wonders there, but despite reaching last season CL final, again I have my doubts about the PL.
Ancelotti's style of football has never been the typical Italian way, it's certainly not contemporary catenaccio, but then true catenaccio isn't quite the dull 1-0 shop shutting that has been associated with Italian teams.

So starts the exercise of summoning up some excitement for our next game, despite all the reasons to be the opposite. The one thing that allows it is my determination not to let Rodgers destroy all the emotions I've held dear about our club for all these decades.

Ancelotti is 56 so has a good 5 years of prime management left in him. However one suspects he wants to manage Italy after the euros. For sure he wants to manage Italy one day. Plus I doubt he'd come here. He'd have CL teams vying for him.

I too have reservations about Klopp. I like him and I love his passion and I feel that he can really put the passion back into the players and also the supporters. However my reservation on him is on how he'd cope with our infrastructure as he's been used to a different one in Dortmund.

De Boer for me would be a terrible appointment. His Ajax teams are useless in europe - so would not be an improvement on Brendan in that area.

Diego Simeone would be my dream appointment but they will never happen. He'd never leave Atletico for us. Guardiola would be another dream appointment but again a pipe dream.

If we were to sack Brendan the people in the running would be Klopp, Monk, Koeman, Blanc, Rudi Garcia.

I wouldn't be against appointing another young manager so long as he has a track record of knowing what area of the field needs improving and hasn't got a giant sized ego that he plays players ahead of others he didn't have a 100% hand in signing. For example Gary Monk. He hasn't won anything but in his short time at Swansea but he has proved that he has seen weaknesses in that team, can identify players that can make those weaknesses disappear. He also is able to change the way of playing to a different style to suit the team against various opposition. If playing more directly would be best he orders the team to do that. If ball retention is the order of the day then that too he'd ensure. He's already proven to be better than Michael Laudrup.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 14, 2015, 07:57:03 AM
I wouldn't be against appointing another young manager so long as he has a track record of knowing what area of the field needs improving and hasn't got a giant sized ego that he plays players ahead of others he didn't have a 100% hand in signing. For example Gary Monk. He hasn't won anything but in his short time at Swansea but he has proved that he has seen weaknesses in that team, can identify players that can make those weaknesses disappear. He also is able to change the way of playing to a different style to suit the team against various opposition. If playing more directly would be best he orders the team to do that. If ball retention is the order of the day then that too he'd ensure. He's already proven to be better than Michael Laudrup.

are you serious, Edward?

Gary Monk?

young guy, manages Swansea for a season or two, resides in mid-table oblivion, but has a nice media savvy image, says the right things to the right folk, but never wins anything.

thinking back three years, did anyone else have a similar profile and was also recommended by you?

Life is all about learning from our mistakes. 

Monk would be the final nail in our coffin.  A Monk would be conducting our funeral.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 14, 2015, 08:05:18 AM
Ancelotti ticks every box, including a proven successful track record in the Premier League and repeated success across a number of clubs and in different countries - the two things that count against Klopp.

I like everything about Ancelotti. He's the Italian Bobby Robson, and my feelings about him and the part he should have played in our club is well enough documented on here.

yes, Ancelotti would be my first choice too.....as you say, ticks all the boxes, and is the Italian Bobby Robson.

one can never guarantee anything in life, or football.....but Ancelotti would offer us the best chance.

Klopp would possibly do a good job....and we might have a more realistic chance of recruiting him. 

But I am far from convinced that our owners will be any different than they were when it last came to recruiting a manager.  They are arrogant nitwits, with an obsession for doing it their way....and appointing young guys who spout media friendly sh.i.t.e.

The club badly need en experienced pair of hands.  The last thing we need right now, is another kid, who has won feck all, and knows feck all, apart from cultivating a nice media image on Sky and the BBC.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 14, 2015, 08:14:24 AM
My, my, first page of the RAWK thread on United game reminds
me of the more cynical amongst us on the pre-Brendan appointment
debate. Seems they're over 3 years behind!

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=322898.0 (http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=322898.0)

Meanwhile, some easy fixtures coming up, so the course of the season should not
become apparent 'til the fixtures against Spurs, Everton and Chelsea (no doubt by
then scrambling back up the table with a point to prove by then) in October.

over at the RAWK forum, reading that thread, time is up for Rodgers.

the kid should have been shown the door in the summer, on the back of that awful end to the season, nd the 6-1 drubbing at Stoke on the final day.

this is really a wasted season.....a waste of an entire year.

Our owners really should be wearing L plates......they have so much to learn.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on September 14, 2015, 09:57:41 AM
Article from football 365...


Saturday told us everything about you…

Forget all the psudeo-intellectual nonsense talk of philosophy, those 90 minutes on Saturday showed you don’t know what you’re doing, silly man. It’s time to go now, Brendan.

Come on, that’s enough now, Brendan. It’s stopped being funny.

There was a moment about 18 months ago when it was hard to tell if Brendan Rodgers was a genius or a clown, or possible a genius clown. He’s been a lot of fun for us, but now there’s something dreadful and crushing about watching him go about his job, endlessly dressing up ineptitude as intellectual philosophy.

Many managers get a period of luck in their career, a period when they can do no wrong. It’s usually not because they’re doing anything massively different, more often it’s because a couple of players hit good form, or you accidentally hit on a new formation and the luck goes your way for a bit. Brendan had his luck with Luis Suarez but managed to convince himself that it wasn’t luck, it was an expression of his own brilliance – a combination of exceptional analysis, man-management and deep thinking.

To talk about football in the way that Brendan Rodgers talks about football, you have to be successful, otherwise you look stupid. Rodgers’ inability to match his pseudo-intellectualising with results says one thing and one thing only: I am deluded and I don’t know what I’m doing. Okay, so that’s two things.

And it was obvious from the way Liverpool played at Old Trafford that fundamentally he doesn’t know what he’s doing, unless being awful is his aim. Daniel Storey masterfully highlighted all of the flaws in Liverpool’s play in 16 Conclusions – the shocking thing was that Rodgers couldn’t even see any of this before, during, or after the match. I genuinely believe he is more occupied with thinking up a metaphysical riddle to utter at the post-match conference, solely in order to look brainy to thick people and to himself.

Some managers know when they’re lost, they know when they’ve signed the wrong players, they know when their tactics are hopeless and wrong, but Rodgers doesn’t. He still thinks he’s bloody great. Maybe he thinks he’s creating a hybrid physical expression of mathematics and poetry. He is certainly prone to talking like a man who is divorced entirely from reality. It is as though everything he says has been generated by a piece of software as a satire on the way air-headed, white-toothed motivational speakers go on, dressing up simple things in long-winded ways, so as to make out there’s more wisdom to it. Brendan, nobody is impressed anymore.

Even when saying really basic things about a footballer, he makes it sound weird. Talking of playing Danny Ings he said: “He’s a threat to the goal.” Why doesn’t he just say he’s a goal threat? Or that he might score. Ings isn’t a threat to the goal – his threat is to score a goal. I know it’s not a big thing, but such embellishment is illustrative of how his mind works. “I’m not one who chops and changes the philosophy – that’s something inherent in you,” is more classic Rodgers nonsense. First, it’s not true, for all the reasons Daniel says in 16 conclusions, but read the sentence again – it doesn’t actually make any sense. It should read “I don’t chop and change my philosophy – that’s something inherent in me,” and even then, you might argue the last two words are superfluous.

His whole aim with such uncomfortable, clunky expressions is to aggrandise himself. He refers to ‘the philosophy’ as though it is a grand concept like Marxism or quantum physics. And by saying that not chopping and changing is some sort of inherent character trait is just obvious nonsense. How you decide your team will play football is not a trait you’re given at birth. And anyway, whatever your philosophy is and from wherever it derives, if it leads to performances like Saturdays, it’s manifestly the wrong bloody philosophy.

But it’s all so typical of the man. His whole Liverpool tenure has been defined by all of these ridiculous hostages to fortune. He’s the only man in football who manages to put one foot in a bucket whilst slipping on a banana skin and shooting himself in the other foot.

Being thoughtful and clever is good, but only if you ARE thoughtful and clever. If you’re not thoughtful and clever but have merely just convinced yourself that you are – because everyone else you know has the intellect of gravy – you just end up making a fool of yourself. You’d think he’d have realised this by now, but he hasn’t. And he hasn’t because he believes in it and doesn’t realise that what surely used to be a pseudo-intellectual affectation has now become an entire consciousness.

His failures are well documented and extensive but it boils down to this: Brendan, look at the team, look at who they are and how they play. That tells us everything about you. Saturday told us everything about you. You can’t dress it up as a philosophy and you’re making yourself look stupid by doing so.

I wish you were actually just talking rubbish in order to get the sack and a huge pay-off. But you’re not, are you? You believe in the nonsense.

Brendan, it’s over or, to put it in terms you might better understand, the project demands a more progressive, dynamic individual, vis-a-vis interpersonal and inspirational one-on-one motivational and organisational skills, on both a macro and a micro level…and because of playing Dejan Lovren too, you big divvy.

John Nicholson
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on September 14, 2015, 10:13:05 AM
Now been revealed that Gerrard had to do some of the tapping up of players. Obviously Rodgers knew that he had no standing and so could blame someone else when targets weren't gained.

From Gerrard's new book...

I had an unofficial role at the club, trying to persuade some great players to join Liverpool. It was the same ritual every summer. The club would let me know which long-shot target they had in mind and then ask me to contact him. They thought that a request to consider moving to Liverpool would have more impact coming from me.

In 2013, the latest player in our sights was Willian, the Brazilian midfielder. I followed the usual routine when approaching a star player we wanted to sign. Instead of calling him directly I always sent a text. It seemed more respectful and allowed the player to read my message at a time when it suited him best. A cold call felt wrong.

I slipped into the groove with Willian. I said hello and hoped he didn’t mind me contacting him directly. I stressed how much I admired him as a player and then, having mentioned that I knew Liverpool were speaking to his agent, I used the standard line: ‘If you need to chat or ask any questions I’m available at any time.’

It was the opening move in a familiar game. The reply came in and the same old conversation started. Willian thanked me and he said the usual, along the lines of, ‘I’d love to play with you, Steven, blah-blah-blah, but there are other clubs who play in the Champions League I need to talk to as well.’ I knew Spurs and Chelsea were also very keen on Willian. So I answered him and said, of course, I understood. But I then went in with my sales pitch. ‘I think Liverpool would be a great move for you. The fans are amazing, the history is there and we’re building a good team. You could do something great here - and we’d love to have you.’

I meant it, too, because the club only asked for my help if it was with a player I rated. But I always tried to persuade with honesty and respect and never mentioned anything about the player’s financial situation or the contract he could expect from Liverpool. The next text from Willian was so obvious I could have written it for him even before I read it. He again said that it would be great to play in the same team as me but ‘I’m not sure Liverpool can give me the Champions League.’ He went to Chelsea.

It was a game of texting ping-pong that had only small differences each time. Occasionally a player would say his wife or girlfriend preferred the idea of living in London, Madrid or Paris. The clear message was that there were fancier shops and swankier restaurants in bigger cities than Liverpool. I knew then that the deal was dead.

Our target in 2014 was ridiculously optimistic. Brendan asked me to take a crack at trying to talk Toni Kroos into signing for Liverpool. He smiled when I said we’d be p*****g into the wind with this one. We both admired Kroos immensely. I knew Real Madrid were gearing up to make Bayern Munich an offer and so I felt a bit awkward when I texted Kroos. The German was on his way to winning the World Cup with his country and Real were the champions of Europe. But God loves a trier, and so I gave it a whirl.

Some of the best footballers in the world can also be the most respectful. Kroos didn’t make me feel like I was a total idiot. But, of course, he would soon sign for Real Madrid. We had a nice little exchange of texts and I said well done and good luck.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3233066/Steven-Gerrard-recounts-role-trying-convince-likes-Willian-Toni-Kroos-sign-Liverpool.html
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on September 14, 2015, 11:49:46 AM
Insightful post Barticus, cheers.

Just proves this pillock (BR) has NO standing in the game whatsoever.  If anyone at the club reads this forum, get off of your backsides and get Ancelelotti NOW.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 14, 2015, 01:27:52 PM
Since the last United match at home in March, this list of risible results - including our worst Wembley performance ever:
 
1-2 v defeat at home to United. As cowardly a performance as yesterday's
 4-1 defeat away to Arsenal. And it could/should have been much worse.
 0-1 Win at Blackburn in the cup. Blackburn are currently in the bottom 3 in the championship.
 2-0 win over John Carver's Newcastle. A team which nearly got itself relegated from a safe position due to the cretin left in charge.
 2-1 defeat to Aston Villa at Wembley. Can't think of a worse performance in a major cup semi final. Villa were subsequently hammered in the final at Wembley.
 0-0 draw at West Brom. A largely clueless performance. Insipid football against a defensive home team.
 1-0 defeat at Hull. A team subsequently relegated. Terrible performance against a shine-a-light team.
 2-1 win at home to OPR, another relegated team. Only when QPR were down to 10 men did we look like winning. Not good.
 1-1 draw away to Chelsea. Didn't see the game. But think Chelsea were already celebrating being champions. Non-match for them. On the surface, a good result.
 1-3 defeat at home Crystal Palace. Outplayed, outfought and out thought by Pardew. Palace should have won by more.
 6-1 defeat away at Stoke. Worst performance I've seen from a Liverpool team, and that includes games with Souness & Hodge in charge. Embarrassing.
 0-1 win away at Stoke. A great result given the context. A dogged, hard-fought win achieved through a stunning Coutinho goal. Wider context: Stoke currently bottom of the league.
 1-0 win at home to Bournemouth. Dodgy goal but to be successful you occasionally have to scrape these sort of wins.
0-0 draw at Arsenal. Was away so didn't see the game. A good result at a venue were we historically struggle. By all accounts a very good first half performance.
 0-3 defeat at home to West Ham. A copy of the Palace performance from last season. Dire performance, outfought and out thought this time by Billic. Could have been more than 3 for the Hammers.
 3-1 defeat at Man United. As poor and gutless a first half I've seen from a Liverpool at Old Trafford, against an ordinary and pedestrian United. No shape, no fight, no tactical awareness.
 
I think the bare facts speak for themselves. Generally poor results and poor performances over a 16 game period. I defy anybody to find a great 90 minutes of football from that list. The last genuinely good performance was against City at Anfield at the start of March. We were very good that day. We've had good results since, but the performance level has been generally shine-a-light. And good teams don't lose that many matches. There's a trend there, and that is we are currently losing half the games we play. Imagine if it continues: every other game we get beaten!

I have no personal dislike for Brendan. I just don't think he is good enough to be our manager any longer.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 14, 2015, 02:01:35 PM
Since the last United match at home in March, this list of risible results - including our worst Wembley performance ever:
 
1-2 v defeat at home to United. As cowardly a performance as yesterday's
 4-1 defeat away to Arsenal. And it could/should have been much worse.
 0-1 Win at Blackburn in the cup. Blackburn are currently in the bottom 3 in the championship.
 2-0 win over John Carver's Newcastle. A team which nearly got itself relegated from a safe position due to the cretin left in charge.
 2-1 defeat to Aston Villa at Wembley. Can't think of a worse performance in a major cup semi final. Villa were subsequently hammered in the final at Wembley.
 0-0 draw at West Brom. A largely clueless performance. Insipid football against a defensive home team.
 1-0 defeat at Hull. A team subsequently relegated. Terrible performance against a shine-a-light team.
 2-1 win at home to OPR, another relegated team. Only when QPR were down to 10 men did we look like winning. Not good.
 1-1 draw away to Chelsea. Didn't see the game. But think Chelsea were already celebrating being champions. Non-match for them. On the surface, a good result.
 1-3 defeat at home Crystal Palace. Outplayed, outfought and out thought by Pardew. Palace should have won by more.
 6-1 defeat away at Stoke. Worst performance I've seen from a Liverpool team, and that includes games with Souness & Hodge in charge. Embarrassing.
 0-1 win away at Stoke. A great result given the context. A dogged, hard-fought win achieved through a stunning Coutinho goal. Wider context: Stoke currently bottom of the league.
 1-0 win at home to Bournemouth. Dodgy goal but to be successful you occasionally have to scrape these sort of wins.
0-0 draw at Arsenal. Was away so didn't see the game. A good result at a venue were we historically struggle. By all accounts a very good first half performance.
 0-3 defeat at home to West Ham. A copy of the Palace performance from last season. Dire performance, outfought and out thought this time by Billic. Could have been more than 3 for the Hammers.
 3-1 defeat at Man United. As poor and gutless a first half I've seen from a Liverpool at Old Trafford, against an ordinary and pedestrian United. No shape, no fight, no tactical awareness.
 
I think the bare facts speak for themselves. Generally poor results and poor performances over a 16 game period. I defy anybody to find a great 90 minutes of football from that list. The last genuinely good performance was against City at Anfield at the start of March. We were very good that day. We've had good results since, but the performance level has been generally shine-a-light. And good teams don't lose that many matches. There's a trend there, and that is we are currently losing half the games we play. Imagine if it continues: every other game we get beaten!

I have no personal dislike for Brendan. I just don't think he is good enough to be our manager any longer.

It may not be from the lest but weren't we quite good against the Thailand XI?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Ed on September 14, 2015, 02:27:58 PM
It may not be from the lest but weren't we quite good against the Thailand XI?
:)

Who knows how the season will pan out.

At present there's a lack of momentum but things can change.

What irks me is the predictability of our transfer dealings. We can't afford genuine
superstars so instead we pay lots of money for players who aren't i.e. from the second
or third tier. It's like we're trying desperately to keep up with the Jones. We're Liverpool,
so we're expected to spend X amount each Summer + 1 supposed marquee signing. Then
we spend the first 3 months of the season desperately seeking signs of footballing life in
whoever we overpaid by £10 million for - mind-numbingly predictable.

I look at Everton and see a club that cuts its cloth and seems more coherent in terms
of a development cycle as we stagnate with transfer ideas that don't work. Meanwhile
the development areas of the club are neglected (which could probably use the £10 million
extra we wasted on whoever).

But, and here we go again, let's not forget who in his pomp overhauled the youth and reserves
set up getting rid of good men along the way.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 14, 2015, 06:27:39 PM
One thing these 2 past results prove is that - as I know you do not rate him Martin - how vital Henderson is too us and just how damned good he is.

Without him Lucas looks dishevelled as he has no one beside me with the ability to run in behind space or anyone with the athleticism and dynamism to press when needed which only Henderson produces at a high level. Milner for example does not possess both those assets neither does Can at this time.

For me Henderson is our 3rd best player behind Sturridge and Coutinho. He is therefore vital to how our midfield works.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 14, 2015, 08:16:55 PM
Henderson is a very important midfielder for Liverpool.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 14, 2015, 08:22:20 PM
thanks Bart for those two excellent posts.

I have been reading a fair few of Gerrard's excerpts.

I imagine that he has fallen out with a fair few folk in the game (and the club) over this book.

He doesn't have a lot good to say about Rafa on a personal level.

Those senior people (I am referring to senior players) at the club, who effectively forced Rafa out, should be publically named and shamed.   

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 15, 2015, 01:25:02 PM
One thing these 2 past results prove is that - as I know you do not rate him Martin - how vital Henderson is too us and just how damned good he is.

Without him Lucas looks dishevelled as he has no one beside me with the ability to run in behind space or anyone with the athleticism and dynamism to press when needed which only Henderson produces at a high level. Milner for example does not possess both those assets neither does Can at this time.

For me Henderson is our 3rd best player behind Sturridge and Coutinho. He is therefore vital to how our midfield works.

No I don't rate him and I don't think too much can be explained by his absence in the last 2 games. We weren't any worse against West Ham and United than Bournemouth and Stoke to be fair - we only had the margins on our side.

I attribute Lucas' dishevelledness (not only his btw) to the fact the players doesn't seem to understand what they're expected to do, what system they're part of and how each and everyone can contribute to its goalfulfillment. It's clear to me they spend a hell of a lot of their focusingm, thinking about what they're supposed to do on the pitch, what position they're supposed to be in, in this or that situation. Our situation cannot be explained by any one individual (unless Suarez re-sign and you timewarp Gerrard back to his late 20's) as it is refers to qualities like identity, structure and organisation.

I would also add that I rate parts of Henderson's game and clearly rate him as a squadplayer, but I maintain naming him captain is a clear signal this club's going backwards in so many departments. Regrettably.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 15, 2015, 01:27:42 PM
Top managers are able to overcome financial disadvantages to win trophies, that's what we need.

The teams that knocked us out under Rodgers so far:

-Oldham
-Swansea
-Zenit
-Moyes' United
-Arsenal
-Villa
-Chelsea
-Basel
-Beşiktaş

I mean even if you use the financial excuse, only 3 of those teams are financially better than us.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 16, 2015, 12:42:46 AM
(http://i1.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article8373262.ece/ALTERNATES/s510b/2311025.jpg)

Rafa responds to Gerrard book

You may see a few headlines saying Rafa Benitez 'hit back' at Steven Gerrard's book this week, with the former Reds skipper accusing the now Real Madrid boss of being cold and 'stupid' for selling Xabi Alonso.

Rafa, though, hasn't 'hit back' as such, he did confirm that he disagreed with Gerrard's assessment, but also refused to be drawn on the subject.

“I have read the quotes and I believe he is wrong,” he said.

“Out of the respect that I have for Stevie and for the value and appreciation I have for him, and for Liverpool and the supporters, I think it’s best to just let it pass."

“He has brought out a book and now I’m the Real Madrid manager, that sells.”

That is a very dignified response to Gerrard's nasty book.

You'd have thought that the multi-zillionaire ex-captain of a club founded on the notion of not washing it's dirty linen in public, wouldn't need the thirty pieces of silver (for this dirty book).

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 16, 2015, 09:05:25 AM
(http://i1.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article8373262.ece/ALTERNATES/s510b/2311025.jpg)

Rafa responds to Gerrard book

You may see a few headlines saying Rafa Benitez 'hit back' at Steven Gerrard's book this week, with the former Reds skipper accusing the now Real Madrid boss of being cold and 'stupid' for selling Xabi Alonso.

Rafa, though, hasn't 'hit back' as such, he did confirm that he disagreed with Gerrard's assessment, but also refused to be drawn on the subject.

“I have read the quotes and I believe he is wrong,” he said.

“Out of the respect that I have for Stevie and for the value and appreciation I have for him, and for Liverpool and the supporters, I think it’s best to just let it pass."

“He has brought out a book and now I’m the Real Madrid manager, that sells.”

That is a very dignified response to Gerrard's nasty book.

You'd have thought that the multi-zillionaire ex-captain of a club founded on the notion of not washing it's dirty linen in public, wouldn't need the thirty pieces of silver (for this dirty book).

Yeah, even I thought that was a tad OTT by SG.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 16, 2015, 10:40:25 PM
Brendan Rodgers - bne of few who actually believes in the notion repeating the same mistake over and over again may actually lead to a different outcome. I hear the clown is setting us up for an early exit from the EL to keep focus on the mighty Norwich City at home. Well, lad, I salute you for speeding the process up.

If a defeat to Bordeaux and draw against Norwich help our cause, then so be it. Come on you Girondins and Canaries!!!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 17, 2015, 12:09:08 AM
yes, Martin,  Rodgers is resting 4 or 5 senior players, and for exactly what.

the Mickey Mouse Europa Cup is one of the few things where we could normally hope to go far in, and the boss thinks (after spending a fortune this summer in the transfer market, to bolster the team) we need to be resting players (as early as mid September).

he treats Europe as annoyance, like a wasp to be swatted........clearly the major European nights at Anfield are not for our Brendan.

All hands to the pump for the weekend visit of Norwich - the team that spent 5 shillings this summer in the market.

Rodgers knows that he is now drinking in the last chance saloon.  He is one bad result away from the sack (whether our owners know/accept it or not).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 17, 2015, 12:33:25 AM
20 Sept - PREM home to Norwich City

23 Sept - Cup home to Carlisle Utd

26 Sept - PREM home to Villa

1 Oct - EUR home to FC Sion

4 Oct - PREM away to Everton

17 Oct PREM away to Spurs

After tonight's trip to France, Brendan has 4 home games, against teams we should be beating.

He's drinking in the last chance saloon.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 17, 2015, 10:54:00 PM
What a sight for sore eyes to see Sakho back in the team. What a performance he put in provided he hasn't played a competetive game sinca March, is it? Composed, positionally aware, strong while also providing leadership. His passing rate must be close to 95 % and have in mind people the large part of them goes in the forward direction extending well over 10 metres. Also liked to see Moreno back. What a left side we all of a sudden have! I have no doubt in my mind, however, that our clown for a manager will rest both for Sunday's homegame to Norwich.

Really liked that young fella Chiravella or whatever. He really sprayed some nice passes around and didn't look completely a waste positionwise.

Gomez made a fatal mistake for the second game running. Same with Rossiter who was by and large wasteful and just not up to it. Ibe seem to go through a rough patch but he'll come good, no doubt.  It's cute an'all this playing young players thingy. And yes if you're good enough you're old enough, but if you're not good enough, well, then you're just not good enough. 

I thought this was our best game thus far in the final third. For a change we looked creative and innovative during periods of the game. Lallana's goal very well taken.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 18, 2015, 12:34:07 PM
yes, Martin,  Rodgers is resting 4 or 5 senior players, and for exactly what.

the Mickey Mouse Europa Cup is one of the few things where we could normally hope to go far in, and the boss thinks (after spending a fortune this summer in the transfer market, to bolster the team) we need to be resting players (as early as mid September).

he treats Europe as annoyance, like a wasp to be swatted........clearly the major European nights at Anfield are not for our Brendan.

All hands to the pump for the weekend visit of Norwich - the team that spent 5 shillings this summer in the market.

Rodgers knows that he is now drinking in the last chance saloon.  He is one bad result away from the sack (whether our owners know/accept it or not).

Exactly, so already our entire season has been shaped to give him the best chance of keeping his job.

Since when did we turn our noses up at European football?

I don't care that it's the UEFA Cup. We used to be the joint most successful team in the competition. Those sort of things matter. Equal with other European giants, Inter and Juve.

Now we've been overtaken by Sevilla - 4 wins between 2006 and 2015. Twice they've won it two years running.
Why can't we have that sort of record? Of course, I forget it's called success. Something that seems to have been spun out of our club's fabric.

Norwich may be part of the way back into the CL via the Top Four, but has the silly sod not realised that so is the UEFA Cup, and you actually win a trophy as well?

There are more players outside of the immediate 'regular 11' that needed match time last night than those he actually put out, and there are also those who need to play themselves into form. Where was João Teixeira?
What about Danny Ings getting a full 90 minutes? Without Benteke, why not try the 4-4-2 diamond that worked for use with Suarez and Studge, using Origi and Ings?
Any of the 'isolated one up top' formations hasn't exactly worked this season, or last, so why not try a departure?
Bogdan needed to 'make his debut', getting that out of the way, and also get a game under his belt in general for the team, so if he's required to come in and replace Mignolet for whatever reason, it will be a less fraught transition.

So far it looks like O'Driscoll and Macca are just window dressing. Can anyone detect even the merest hint of a suggestion of an inference of a etc, etc that anything has changed?

Time for a strong, 'laced', cuppa washed down with a dozen or so prozac.
 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 18, 2015, 04:13:40 PM
One can say resting another can say dropping!!

Although we all know Lovren will be back playing instead of Sakho on Sunday. Unless we elect to play 3 at the back.

Anyway we got a point which is better than nothing.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 18, 2015, 05:09:29 PM
One can say resting another can say dropping!!

Although we all know Lovren will be back playing instead of Sakho on Sunday. Unless we elect to play 3 at the back.

Anyway we got a point which is better than nothing.

And here's a second crumb - we stopping our losing sequence.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 20, 2015, 05:55:31 PM
We showed a lot of character to get a hard fought draw against a very VERY good Norwich City team.





























 :-X
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 20, 2015, 06:04:53 PM
I'm not surprised. I said in April we'll struggle for a top half finish next season. Once more the season is over in September. Gonna stick my neck out and suggest anything above 50 points should be considered a success this season.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 20, 2015, 06:08:26 PM
Indeed. We'll be lucky to finish above Palace and Leicester let alone F'N Spurs. LET ALONE the top 4!!! Haha what a bloody joke!!

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 20, 2015, 06:42:01 PM
Our upcoming games are:-


Aston Villa  H   
Everton  A
Tottenham  A     
Southampton  H   
Chelsea  A
Crystal Palace  H     
Man City  A
Swansea  H
Newcastle  A

It's hard to see us getting anything more than 5 points from those games.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 20, 2015, 10:35:33 PM
Our upcoming games are:-


Aston Villa  H   
Everton  A
Tottenham  A     
Southampton  H   
Chelsea  A
Crystal Palace  H     
Man City  A
Swansea  H
Newcastle  A

It's hard to see us getting anything more than 5 points from those games.

You're way to optimistic mate. 5 possible only if we don't face Newcy during their yearly run of 6-7 games.

He need 5 or better from the next 3 to save his job.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2015, 12:28:35 AM
The sooner we get to the magical 40 points the happier I'll be. I realise it will be a loooooooooooooong wait, but safeguarding PL football for another season surely has to be this season's target.

Doesn't it?  :(
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 21, 2015, 10:53:52 AM
Indeed, Tes. That's the level we're at - midtable mediocrity.

I hear Brennie saying the players are nervous playing at Anfield. My only question is: How the fukc is that possible after 3 years of management and hundreds of millions spent? More than anything I would say their performance is influenced by your fukcing inability to identify and stick with a formation and a starting XI suitable to it.

Also, I hear there's positives. It's not out in the open but you really can hear the infamous corner being mentioned. It's fukcing over after 6 games. Please Henry et.al. put what's best for the club at the front for a fukcing change and do what needs to be done!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 21, 2015, 01:10:21 PM
Oh, and this criticism of Mignolet just misses the target completely. As if we shouldn't beat Norwich at home despite one mistake by the keeper????
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 23, 2015, 02:46:35 AM
Liverpool have picked up a shocking 16 points from their last 15 league games.

Bordeaux summer spending: £1.4million
Norwich summer spending: £10 million

Liverpool summer spending: £88 million
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on September 23, 2015, 09:52:07 AM
Neil Ashton of the Daily Mail with the following head line

Liverpool make contact with Carlo Ancelotti as pressure mounts on Brendan Rodgers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3245888/Liverpool-make-contact-Carlo-Ancelotti-pressure-mounts-Brendan-Rodgers.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3245888/Liverpool-make-contact-Carlo-Ancelotti-pressure-mounts-Brendan-Rodgers.html)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 23, 2015, 12:32:56 PM
Exactly, so already our entire season has been shaped to give him the best chance of keeping his job.

Since when did we turn our noses up at European football?

I don't care that it's the UEFA Cup. We used to be the joint most successful team in the competition. Those sort of things matter. Equal with other European giants, Inter and Juve.

Now we've been overtaken by Sevilla - 4 wins between 2006 and 2015.

Any of the 'isolated one up top' formations hasn't exactly worked this season, or last, so why not try a departure?

So far it looks like O'Driscoll and Macca are just window dressing. Can anyone detect even the merest hint of a suggestion of an inference of a etc, etc that anything has changed?

Time for a strong, 'laced', cuppa washed down with a dozen or so prozac.

exactly, Tes.

we used to try and win trophies.....whether they were the UEFA Cup, League Cup, or European Cup.

Under this kid, we spend 88 million on players, during the summer, but then apparently have to rest senior players in mid September, lest our European endeavours trip us up for a league match against mighty Norwich City.

As you say, it looks like we are deploying resources to try and salvage someone's job.

O'Driscoll is another bloke who has won feck all at the top level. 

But despite all our links to Klopp and today to Ancelotti.....I have zero faith in our owners picking the right manager.   

John Henry and his mates, are far too far up their own posteriors, with a determined arrogance (built on ignorance) at their core.  They would appear to be contrarians.   

Rafa was the man in 2012.  They wouldn't even interview him.

Despite their kid (Rodgers) being useless, they still refused to dump him after the Stoke debacle in May.

I have no faith that they will appoint the right man this time either.

Andre Villas-Boas, or Frank De Boer is the type of bloke they will look at.   Hey, Steve McLaren talks a good game too. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 23, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
Klopp heavily rumoured and linked for weeks, no comment at all from the club.

Vague Ancelotti rumours for 1 day, the club instantly deny it strongly.

Hmmmmmm
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on September 23, 2015, 02:45:07 PM
Supposedly, Klopp will be at Anfield to watch the Pool v Villa game  ???
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 23, 2015, 11:19:06 PM
The infidels have been seen off.

The mid-table Division 4 infidels thought they would come to Anfield and kick sand in our faces.

We definitely showed them.    They have left with their tails between their legs.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 24, 2015, 08:34:45 AM
The infidels have been seen off.

The mid-table Division 4 infidels thought they would come to Anfield and kick sand in our faces.

We definitely showed them.    They have left with their tails between their legs.

Brilliant Dude! Spot on! :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 24, 2015, 09:09:03 AM
Oh, and this criticism of Mignolet just misses the target completely. As if we shouldn't beat Norwich at home despite one mistake by the keeper????

Exactly. Every keeper makes mistakes, it's the problem with playing a human being in goal.

Remember Clem's bloopers against Scotland, two games in a row, back in the Seventies.

Mignolet was far from being the problem against Norwich.

The players are nervous playing at home, because they don't have a clue what they're supposed to be doing, why they're being played in positions they are and are probably wondering when the next change of tactics and formation will be, and what it will be.

By constantly changing things, several times in the same match sometimes, the players are feeling like they're not trusted and the manager has no faith in them, but neither is any time being given to get used to and bed in any changes. They know that the manager blames them as he never places any blame or responsibility against himself. He's responsible for success, the players for failure and defeats. There's no wonder they look nervy and lacking in confidence.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 24, 2015, 09:13:38 AM
The infidels have been seen off.

The mid-table Division 4 infidels thought they would come to Anfield and kick sand in our faces.

We definitely showed them.    They have left with their tails between their legs.

The completion of the transition to 'being Newcastle' has been staved off thanks to a penalty shoot out.

Big bad Bournemouth in the next round, and probably no refereeing decision to save us (Rodgers).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 24, 2015, 02:10:40 PM
Information I've attained has made me aware that Brendan will be our manager right through to the end of the season.

The only roadblock to this is if we lose to both Villa and Everton in the next two league fixtures.

Or of course if we are in a relegation battle.

Hope the information is wrong though.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 24, 2015, 03:12:44 PM
Information I've attained has made me aware that Brendan will be our manager right through to the end of the season.

 :( :( :(

they must be waiting til Big Sam Allardyce is available, after fulfilling his gardening leave.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 24, 2015, 03:17:26 PM
The completion of the transition to 'being Newcastle' has been staved off thanks to a penalty shoot out.

Big bad Bournemouth in the next round, and probably no refereeing decision to save us (Rodgers).

despite the look-at-me idiot Sherwood, Villa is gonna be a tough one.

And then Everton, at Goodison, could be the coup d'etat for the Brentmaster.

And failing that, the next game, away at Spurs.

Without Henderson, midfield is a wasteland.   And Benteke's two-week absense is gonna hurt at the front end.

The cows are coming home to roost.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 24, 2015, 03:25:50 PM
The completion of the transition to 'being Newcastle' has been staved off thanks to a penalty shoot out.

(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6503755.ece/ALTERNATES/s1023/Liverpool-vs-Carlisle-Capital-One-Cup.jpg)


beating the fourth division outfit seemingly, according to our players reactions, is up there with winning the European Cup.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 24, 2015, 03:29:26 PM
Gonna stick my neck out and suggest anything above 50 points should be considered a success this season.

yes, like you and Tes, I will be happy to see us initially getting enough points to avoid the drop.

We are carrying on the form from April and May.  We have zero confidence.

It is frightening to behold.

I suspect that the players know full well that they are playing for an idiot......an idiot with lots of endless words, but no answers.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 24, 2015, 03:44:27 PM
(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article5294985.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/50-funniest-pictures-of-the-season.jpg)

(http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg)

(http://memecrunch.com/meme/5LDZ5/comical-ali/image.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/BassistOfTheFall/Sahhaf3.jpg)

Still in Edinburgh.

If I was back home, in photoshop, I'd merge Rodgers face with that of Comical Ali.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 24, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6503755.ece/ALTERNATES/s1023/Liverpool-vs-Carlisle-Capital-One-Cup.jpg)


beating the fourth division outfit seemingly, according to our players reactions, is up there with winning the European Cup.

Can't we sign the guy in the background with the red hair. It would at least add some colour to the 'thousand shades of grey' canvass Rodgers has put together.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 24, 2015, 04:59:07 PM
(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article5294985.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/50-funniest-pictures-of-the-season.jpg)



It looks like Rodgers has just been given the thumbs up from the directors' box by the bored board, and received the same news that Edward has about his job.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 24, 2015, 05:01:06 PM
And so our stubborn refusal to score more than one goal a game continues. All that money on attacking talent, and our attack is still as bare as one of Old Mother Hubbard's cupboards.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 24, 2015, 07:04:08 PM
And so our stubborn refusal to score more than one goal a game continues. All that money on attacking talent, and our attack is still as bare as one of Old Mother Hubbard's cupboards.

exactly - and not only is there no threat from our attack, there is little to nothing from midfield either.

I warned about Allen - in his career, he averages about 2 goals per season.

Same pre-purchase warning with Milner - averages 2 or 3 goals per season.

Our problems do not merely lie with Rodgers, they lie right across our backroom staff. 

The personel we employ are second tier......good enough for a Newcastle or a Spurs, but never good enough for a top tier club.

e.g.  Liverpool Chief Scout is Barry Hunter.  FFS   >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

In September 2012, 43 year old Hunter was employed by Liverpool, as the club's chief scout.

The kid managed Rushen and Diamonds, was assistant at Swindon, and was a scout for an unsuccessful Man City.

Never in a million years would he be good enough for Liverpool FC.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 24, 2015, 08:25:52 PM
The kid managed Rushen and Diamonds, was assistant at Swindon, and was a scout for an unsuccessful Man City.

This. Sums it up perfectly. It was during the era of Mark Hughes, when Mansour first arrived, where they spent huge amounts on distinctly average players. Since they palmed him and Fallows off on us they've spent huge amounts on mostly world class players. We also managed to lose Borrell to them, into the bargain, though not at quite the same time.

So between Hodgson and Rodgers we've lost Malcolm Elias, top youth scout and Segura and Borell, both largely responsible for all Barca's household names over the last 10-15 years.

We really are truly well placed to challenge the likes of the WBAs and Villas to flop around in the bowels of the PL.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 24, 2015, 08:34:18 PM
Information I've attained has made me aware that Brendan will be our manager right through to the end of the season.

The only roadblock to this is if we lose to both Villa and Everton in the next two league fixtures.

Or of course if we are in a relegation battle.

Hope the information is wrong though.

So having given him totally free reign to re-vamp what he wanted and spend what he wanted on who he wanted, they're prepared to compound their mistake by refusing to admit to it and do something about it, unless we end up at true crisis point. As Dude has rightly and consistently pointed out, their arrogance is becoming our undoing.

Surely having allowed so much money to be spent over the last two Summers, it would be better to salvage something and bring in a manager who could actually do something with the squad and maybe turn this season into something decent, rather than lose another whole season on hard headedness inspired by arrogance.
They can't swap the squad wholesale, so let's change the three people who are charged with getting something out of it. I would feel sorry for Gary Mac, but we're way beyond sentiment. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 25, 2015, 10:16:18 AM
It emerge from several newsreports Brendan has 10 days to save his job, i.e., he need a run of wins against Villa, Sion and Everton.

What I do not understand is how 3 successive victories will re-install hope and faith at Anfield. It is painfully clear Brendan is way beyond he point where he can restore, let alone, retain the faith of Liverpool fans.

I have the feeling it is days rather than weeks. Surely it must be?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 25, 2015, 11:34:19 AM
What I do not understand is how 3 successive victories will re-install hope and faith at Anfield.

I have the feeling it is days rather than weeks. Surely it must be?

the newspapers, in the absense of facts, will post speculation, Martin.

Personally, I believe that a loss at Goodison will do for Rodgers..............and if he should somehow get past that game, then a loss in the next game at Spurs, will be enough to see him gone.

The team has zero confidence - just as it had in the final two months of last season.

Our owners needed to sack him in May.  Their massive mistake has cost the club another 80 odd million in transfer fees (goodness only knows how much in wasted years of wages).

They are paying a very high price, for being hands-on idiots.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 25, 2015, 07:50:20 PM
They are paying a very high price, for being hands-on idiots.

Vanity comes with a high price.

The mistake is never the problem. The problem is either not learning from it, making it again or living in a state of denial that one has been made in the first place.

So which one are FSG doing at the moment.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 25, 2015, 08:25:51 PM
What I do not understand is how 3 successive victories will re-install hope and faith at Anfield. It is painfully clear Brendan is way beyond he point where he can restore, let alone, retain the faith of Liverpool fans.

Exactly. We had that 'mini revival' last season which lasted more than three games, only to be followed by a worse run of form (than the start of the season) from the Manc game onwards. Without the referee's help twice that run would have continued from game one into this season. From the West Ham game onwards it has re-started.

We may have avoided defeat in the last two or three games, but any positive slant that gets put on the result only hides the continued disjointed performances. Only once, against Arsenal, have we looked anything but clueless and confused this season.

As Dude said, and as everyone except the few people that matter could see, May was the time to remove Rodgers. 'Judge me after 3 seasons' was Rodgers' attitude early on. As the gavel fell so should the curtain have on his reign. If it was a case of Klopp/Ancelotti not being available, and Rodgers has been left in charge until they are, why let him appoint two new coaches (who will need paying off) and spend a huge sum of cash?

Who is advising them, and if they're relying on the likes of Ayre and Dave Fallows to give them some sort of 'context' and 'standard' for Rodgers' performance, then they are fools. If they think they've spent enough time in 'soccer' to be able to judge for themselves then they're even bigger fools.

We desperately need 'football people' appointed to the board, and not just King Kenny. Dalglish is fine as an ambassadorial appointment, but we need people who know how to play the politics of the FA and UEFA, who can judge Rodgers' performance more accurately, who have their finger on the who's who within the managerial and coaching world, likewise quality and talented scouts, who have an understanding of what is needed to make our academy spoken of in the same terms as Barca's or Ajax's and who the coaches are that can achieve that.

The entire football side of the club is as amateurish as the business side was under Moores. We've improved hugely and are continuing to improve on the business side but the skills sets within the club are as unbalanced as the team on the field.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 26, 2015, 05:44:54 AM
The mistake is never the problem. The problem is either not learning from it, making it again or living in a state of denial that one has been made in the first place.

So which one are FSG doing at the moment.

exactly.....the key is learning from experience.

this new appointment is going to show them up for what they are.   

If they again insist on picking their own manager - some kid, who has won feck all, but can talk BS til the cows come home, and is a YES-SIR-THREE-BAGS-FULL kid......then Boston Houston, we have a problem.

The Liverpool fans will not put up with that type of appointment.   They will revolt.

I am not sure that our owners are aware that they are on very thin ice. 

If the arrogant-ignorant-contrarians ignore Ancelotti and Klopp, then they better have a helluva replacement up their sleeves, otherwise their ownership of the club will become untenable.   Fans will protest.  Sponsors and media will take note. 


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 26, 2015, 05:47:38 AM
(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6432733.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Manchester-United-v-Liverpool-Premier-League)

the ego has landed.

Have we ever had a bigger head at the club, than this todger?

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 26, 2015, 05:54:17 AM
someone needs to tell him, that he is not good looking.

Nor is he terribly clever.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 26, 2015, 03:55:12 PM
(http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6520964.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Liverpool-v-Aston-Villa.jpg)

1 up, via Milner's goal after a minute.

essential that Moreno and Clyne keep giving us width - because there is no creativity coming from elsewhere, to break Villa down.

our usual mistakes have allowed Villa two or three good chances to score.

I will be surprised if they do not score in the second period.

Balance is key - as is game intelligence - and we do not have it. 

PS - could you dream up a crappier looking Liverpool shirt.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 26, 2015, 06:51:16 PM
Sturridge will get the headlines.

But we are still unbalanced and defensively very weak.

Same old, same old.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 26, 2015, 08:16:53 PM
Quote
“I think it's pretty clear. If you look, sometimes we haven't lost games or we have lost games and not performed well, but I think the hysteria around it is pretty clear that there's maybe something else going on from behind."

"I'm pretty confident that there's obviously a group of people who don't want me here as the manager," says the kid, Rodgers.

yeah, Brendan, the group you are referring to are better known as, the fans.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 26, 2015, 08:20:24 PM
Quote
Our kid went on to tell BBC Sport: "There's a hysteria around the club. We've lost fewer games than Manchester City, Chelsea and Arsenal in all competitions - two."

the last time I checked - before this game today - City, Chelsea nor Arsenal had picked up a mere 16 points in their last 15 league games.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 26, 2015, 08:25:14 PM
Quote
We are five points off the top with a lot of progress still to come.”

you are also 5 points above 17th spot (18 to 20 are the relegation spots).

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2015, 01:07:49 AM
Cause of the so-called hysteria:

Liverpool: since March Rodgers’ Reds haven’t beaten a team higher than 16th in the Premier League

http://www.anorak.co.uk/424033/news/liverpool-since-march-rodgers-reds-havent-beaten-a-team-higher-than-16th-in-the-premier-league.html/ (http://www.anorak.co.uk/424033/news/liverpool-since-march-rodgers-reds-havent-beaten-a-team-higher-than-16th-in-the-premier-league.html/)

If this 'fact' was put to him, he'd probably say we were 'outstanding' during June and July as we didn't lose a single game.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 27, 2015, 01:17:15 AM
Cause of the so-called hysteria:

Liverpool: since March Rodgers’ Reds haven’t beaten a team higher than 16th in the Premier League

http://www.anorak.co.uk/424033/news/liverpool-since-march-rodgers-reds-havent-beaten-a-team-higher-than-16th-in-the-premier-league.html/ (http://www.anorak.co.uk/424033/news/liverpool-since-march-rodgers-reds-havent-beaten-a-team-higher-than-16th-in-the-premier-league.html/)

If this 'fact' was put to him, he'd probably say we were 'outstanding' during June and July as we didn't lose a single game.

 :)

yes, sums it up - we have not beaten a team in the top 16, since March.

Rodgers is now in his final days at the club.  He is turning on his critics.....and I'd imagine that their next criticism will be less diplomatic, and more to the throat.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2015, 10:38:33 PM
:)

yes, sums it up - we have not beaten a team in the top 16, since March.

Rodgers is now in his final days at the club.  He is turning on his critics.....and I'd imagine that their next criticism will be less diplomatic, and more to the throat.

'Hysteria' seems an odd way to describe the criticism he's received. Does he not understand that last season, and especially from the Manc game onwards, plus the dire start we've made to this season would be criticised, and rightfully so. Surely he can't think he can keep dining out on the 2nd place finish.
You can't spend the amount of money we've spent and not expect negative reactions, when what's happened since last Summer, happens.

Being at a big club brings pressure. Finishing second brings pressure. Spending over £200M on players brings pressure. If he wants to manage in the 'big time', he has to deal with the 'big time' pressures and the 'big time' criticisms.

I totally agree with you, Dude. I've not heard the former players he seems to be alluding to, come out and say directly that he needs to go, or he should be sacked. They've stated what we all know, that things haven't been good enough, that they need to improve drastically, though I don't think anyone has even gone as far as use words like 'drastically', and they've stated that our transfer business has been poor.

It all has the feeling of a man who knows he's in trouble and doesn't know how to get out of it, and is lashing out, out of frustration. If he had some humility about him, he would understand the reactions over the last season and a bit, would accept it as it as and just get his head down and focus on the job in hand. He would understand that people are rightfully worried, and when improvement is not forthcoming will want something done about.
This is his fourth season and our defending is still as woeful as when he first arrived. Then it could be excused initially as players adapting to his way of playing, but after 3 full seasons, to still see the Keystone Cops style malfunctioning of our defence is almost beyond defence. Something has to be inherently wrong, yet he refuses to see it, or at least hasn't managed to alter it in the slightest.

As you say, Dude, he's on thin ice. His so-called critics have been very diplomatic so far, but if he starts lashing out he'll find them less inclined to be so and more inclined to actually 'tell it as it is'.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 28, 2015, 12:54:39 PM
'Hysteria' seems an odd way to describe the criticism he's received. Does he not understand that last season, and especially from the Manc game onwards, plus the dire start we've made to this season would be criticised, and rightfully so. Surely he can't think he can keep dining out on the 2nd place finish.
You can't spend the amount of money we've spent and not expect negative reactions, when what's happened since last Summer, happens.

Being at a big club brings pressure. Finishing second brings pressure. Spending over £200M on players brings pressure. If he wants to manage in the 'big time', he has to deal with the 'big time' pressures and the 'big time' criticisms.

I totally agree with you, Dude. I've not heard the former players he seems to be alluding to, come out and say directly that he needs to go, or he should be sacked. They've stated what we all know, that things haven't been good enough, that they need to improve drastically, though I don't think anyone has even gone as far as use words like 'drastically', and they've stated that our transfer business has been poor.

It all has the feeling of a man who knows he's in trouble and doesn't know how to get out of it, and is lashing out, out of frustration. If he had some humility about him, he would understand the reactions over the last season and a bit, would accept it as it as and just get his head down and focus on the job in hand. He would understand that people are rightfully worried, and when improvement is not forthcoming will want something done about.
This is his fourth season and our defending is still as woeful as when he first arrived. Then it could be excused initially as players adapting to his way of playing, but after 3 full seasons, to still see the Keystone Cops style malfunctioning of our defence is almost beyond defence. Something has to be inherently wrong, yet he refuses to see it, or at least hasn't managed to alter it in the slightest.

As you say, Dude, he's on thin ice. His so-called critics have been very diplomatic so far, but if he starts lashing out he'll find them less inclined to be so and more inclined to actually 'tell it as it is'.

Not to mention our pathetic CL adventure where, as it turned out, a win at home against Basel would be enough to go through. But no.

I get the feeling he's gonna talk his way out of this mess. I'm gobsmacked his being or not being manager of LFC hinges on what results he produce in the next couple of games. It doesn't matter really if we beat Sion, Everton or Spurs. We'll soon enough get back to our true level. You really could see it against Villa how toothless and weak we are playing this pathetic 3-4-3/3-5-2 formation of his. I really hate his naive and idealist view on footy. It's all about him proving the world wrong and himself right.

As you correctly say Tes, it is incredible he's not already gone provided the Money invested and the poor results produced in return. Unfortunately it will go on. It's too bad really our owners are unable to apply the birds eye's view and realise this club is going backwards under Rodgers. I was very sad to see Anfield sold out on Saturday.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 28, 2015, 01:26:59 PM
If he wants to manage in the 'big time', he has to deal with the 'big time' pressures and the 'big time' criticisms.

I totally agree with you, Dude. I've not heard the former players he seems to be alluding to, come out and say directly that he needs to go, or he should be sacked.

It all has the feeling of a man who knows he's in trouble and doesn't know how to get out of it, and is lashing out, out of frustration.

This is his fourth season and our defending is still as woeful as when he first arrived.

As you say, Dude, he's on thin ice. His so-called critics have been very diplomatic so far, but if he starts lashing out he'll find them less inclined to be so and more inclined to actually 'tell it as it is'.

absolutely, Tes.

there has been no improvement at the club.  Our defending has been woeful since day one, under Rodgers.  If anything, it is getting worse.

He, and people like him, sell this yarn, that they are on a project - and to have faith. 

OK, tell you what, Brendan, let's make it a results-based-project  - and you forego your salary in the meantime, and only pick it up when we get to your golden land of milk and honey.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 28, 2015, 01:37:32 PM
I get the feeling he's gonna talk his way out of this mess.

I'm gobsmacked his being or not being manager of LFC hinges on what results he produce in the next couple of games.

he's on his last legs, Martin.

It has always been the same life cycle with managers.

At the end, they get paranoid and lash out at their critics (real and perceived).  Houllier was probably the best example.

Our results, I have no doubt, given time will improve.  With Sturridge back, Henderson back in a few weeks, etc things can only get better.  But even if we improve, it will be the same old same old.....finishing top 6 at best.....more likely top 8.  Nowhere near good enough.

I have no issues, when I see progress.  But 3 seasons and 2 months into his reign,  we have no balance, no array of tactics, we have a soft underbelly, lack of confidence, and a defence that gets no protection, and is awful.   The moron will find scapegoats, like the keeper, or a central defender.  But if your team is not balanced properly, then elements of it are not getting the proper protection.  Our defensive end of things are not getting adequate protection.....and not being drilled properly.

At best, Rodgers will pick up a few results in the next few games, that carry him on til May. 

But more likely, he will be gone before Christmas, rather than May time.

What he is doing now, lashing out is symptomatic of a man close to the door, and also someone who despite preaching the Liverpool mantra, clearly does not abide by it.   One does not wash one's dirty linen in public (that is not the Liverpool way).

Heck, it probably isn't the Boston way of conducting business either. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 28, 2015, 02:01:19 PM
the five teams that Liverpool have beaten in the league since March 17, are currently 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th in the top flight and 12th in the Championship.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 29, 2015, 02:18:11 AM
(http://cdn.empireofthekop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Tony-Barrett.png)

Tony Barrett claims Klopp would talk to Liverpool, but club aren’t interested

"If Liverpool do decide to make a change, then they should talk to Klopp at the very least. John Henry was an admirer when he took over. The suggestions are that Liverpool wouldn’t pursue Klopp if Rodgers does go. I can’t work it out as it smacks of arrogance. Klopp is willing to talk to Liverpool, a club which has finished outside of top 4 in 5 of last 6 seasons. It’s not as if Liverpool will have their pick of elite managers.

If Liverpool aren’t playing well & results are poor, then heightened scrutiny is absolutely inevitable. The manager, whoever he may be, has to accept that because it goes hand in hand with being manager of one the world’s biggest and most newsworthy clubs. It’s also one of the reasons why they get paid millions of pounds for doing the job.

John Henry is not the pivotal figure that he once was. Mike Gordon’s influence is now strongest. He has a hands on role at Liverpool. There’s nothing to suggest that there’s any kind of split at Liverpool on Rodgers.

I have no problem with managers saying what they think. I do think Rodgers would have been better waiting for a winning run before going on the offensive. He’s feeling the pressure,& I got the impression he was trying to create siege mentality. When you do that, though, you have to win your next big game or else your critics will just up the ante. It was a big gamble/mad risk considering Liverpool’s next big game is the derby.

Liverpool as a club are not creating the conditions for success. They don’t sign elite players & they allow ones they have to leave. They prioritise potential over experience & then wonder why they have no leaders. At some point the penny will drop. There will be a realisation at Liverpool that the whole club is struggling to be the best it can be and its not just down to the manager.

I agree that Rodgers has to take the criticism as it goes with the territory, the salary & profile. It wasn’t so long ago that he was hailed as a tactical genius, so now critics have gone other way, Rodgers has to accept it."
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on September 29, 2015, 09:48:50 AM
I could have told you that. However undoubtedly it is true.

It is Gordon as to why its the main reason I see Brendan staying the season here - unless of course we go on a losing run/get thrashed again/relegation fight.

Mike Gordon is the main power to decide Brendan's fate and in the summer he decided to give him one more year, so I see this occurring.

Further to that there is management issues at the Red Sox too and one suspects they don't want to deal with both at the same time.

Therefore unless something drastic happens Brendan will see out the season.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on September 29, 2015, 02:06:41 PM

Therefore unless something drastic happens Brendan will see out the season.

The Gordon should step down as well.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on September 29, 2015, 05:45:16 PM
(http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article5770769.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Mike-Gordon.jpg)

yes, Mike Gordon needs to be shown the door.

Quite clearly, he knows feck all about football.

And he can take ridiculous appointments - like the kids FSG appointed, as manager and chief scout - with him.

Mike Gordon would be out of his depth, at a fourth division club.

The fans need to turn their focus onto Mike Gordon.  He needs to be handed his P45.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on September 29, 2015, 10:36:30 PM
I could have told you that. However undoubtedly it is true.

It is Gordon as to why its the main reason I see Brendan staying the season here - unless of course we go on a losing run/get thrashed again/relegation fight.

Mike Gordon is the main power to decide Brendan's fate and in the summer he decided to give him one more year, so I see this occurring.

Further to that there is management issues at the Red Sox too and one suspects they don't want to deal with both at the same time.

Therefore unless something drastic happens Brendan will see out the season.

That's what I fear, especially as what constitutes as drastic will change over time. I reiterate my claim if Rodgers stay the season we will not finish above 10th.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 01, 2015, 01:57:27 PM
(http://www.panicposters.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/f63dc5ec28f3175f8a7f615bd217eb71/p/p/pp32043-fistfull.jpg)

Liverpool have recalled Lawrence Vigouroux from his loan spell at Swindon Town after the 21-year-old turned up late for training and paid the subsequent £50 fine in pennies, according to reports.

The goalkeeper has been with the League One side since August and had played every game before being dropped for Saturday’s defeat to Colchester United.

Swindon Town boss Mark Cooper admitted afterwards that the ‘keeper had been dropped because of disciplinary reasons but refused to go into detail.

‘It’s a disciplinary internal matter. It’s come from me and the rest of the players. It won’t (cause an issue now) it’s been dealt with,’ said Cooper.

But the Daily Mail say the player was dropped for turning up late to training and then paying his £50 fine with bank bags full of pennies.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 01, 2015, 02:01:46 PM
UPDATE

The Liverpool goalkeeper Lawrence Vigouroux has returned to Swindon Town on loan after apologising for paying a £50 fine with 5,000 1p pieces.

The 21-year-old had played nine games for Swindon after joining them on a season-long loan, but was sent back to Anfield on Monday after he used the coins to pay his fine for turning up late to training.

The manager Mark Cooper told the BBC: “Lawrence is going to come back, he is very humble and very apologetic. He knows the way he behaved was wrong and he has been in the changing room after the game and apologised to the players.

“He asked them if they wanted him back and they all said yes. Lawrence is an exceptional young goalkeeper and it’s important he learns from this little mishap and it will benefit his career going forward.”

The Swindon manager said he appreciated the humour, but that it had been perhaps misguided. “I thought it was brilliant banter, but in the context it was the wrong way to go about it. We are giving him a second chance, and I’m sure he will be grateful.”
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 01, 2015, 09:03:00 PM
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/cdf4874e2af0ba0c6971a963bc8caafa0a041ec7/0_0_2850_1851/master/2850.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=ca01fbacbf7482f64b91635414a6398d)

Rodgers is in danger of licking himself to death
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 01, 2015, 09:05:05 PM
GOAL! Liverpool 1-1 Sion (Assifuah, 18 mins)

Clyne gives the ball away with a criminal pass into midfield, and it’s played straight over the defence to Assifuah, who just about controls it and then prods the ball under Mignolet!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 01, 2015, 09:06:30 PM
half-time.   1-1

From the Guardian:   

It’s not been irredeemable, but it certainly hasn’t been a very impressive first half from Liverpool.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on October 01, 2015, 10:15:19 PM
Yet another sub-standard performance in front of the Anfield faithful. The last 45 was an orgy in non-existant organisation and structure, lack of urgency and passion, and, of course worse balanced than the tower of Pisa. The first 45 only marginally better.

If ever, tonight was the night when Rodgers and Liverpool's miserable transfer record became clear for the world to see. It's also pretty obvious our squad is by and large made up of mediocre players. Fair enough, they're not helped by the fact their joke for a manager persist with his pathetic backline of 3 but from the number of chances we had it just goes down to not-good-enough-for-LFC we only scored one.

We have now played Norwich, Carlisle, Villa and Sion at home. We only mustered one win. Fortress Anfield? What a joke we are under Rodgers.

Worst of all is we're gonna get at least a point in the derby so this fukcing comedy can continue.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 01, 2015, 10:38:54 PM
yes, Martin, it's pretty depressing stuff.

no balance or organisation whatsoever.

as I said from his first months in charge, a poor man's Keegan.

he experiments and experiments, until he gets his all-out-attack system working.  The problem withthat is that he needs his key strikers for that to work.  There is no plan b.  There are no tactics that change as a game develops.  There is no strategic playing of chess, live during a game, when he sees a weakness in an opponent.

In all my years watching top teams - Rogers is by far the worst (even Hodgson tried to build some balance from the back to the front).   He is division 2 at best - but more likely a division 3 or 4 manager.  A one trick pony.  And he tweaks til he gets his trick working each year.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on October 02, 2015, 08:56:55 AM
yes, Martin, it's pretty depressing stuff.

no balance or organisation whatsoever.

as I said from his first months in charge, a poor man's Keegan.

he experiments and experiments, until he gets his all-out-attack system working.  The problem withthat is that he needs his key strikers for that to work.  There is no plan b.  There are no tactics that change as a game develops.  There is no strategic playing of chess, live during a game, when he sees a weakness in an opponent.

In all my years watching top teams - Rogers is by far the worst (even Hodgson tried to build some balance from the back to the front).   He is division 2 at best - but more likely a division 3 or 4 manager.  A one trick pony.  And he tweaks til he gets his trick working each year.

Only, the number of games it work until he gets found out gets fewer and fewer by each year.

I reiterate that it is a sign of mediocrity and ignorance on behalf of the owners they fail to apply the bird eyes view on the situation but rather let it drag on. In a way it would be ideal to let him go after the derby, let the players go away on the international break and return back with a new manager in place. I have no doubt in my mind Klopp's energy and passion would see this club thrive.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2015, 02:04:01 PM
It should be another nail in the coffin, but whilst Gordon (apparently the most knowledgeable about 'soccer' out of all FSG) holds both the hammer and nails, I worry that it won't be.

For him it's a face saving exercise. He gave Rodgers another year and doesn't want to look foolish by sacking him so early into the season. He should realise that making a mistake isn't foolish, but ignoring it, repeating it or not learning from it is the foolish part.

If FSG are concerned with their rounders team, it shouldn't make a jot of difference to us. They base themselves there, so they can sort that out, meanwhile, there should be the type of administration in place over here that deals with everything, without the need for FSG to really be involved, especially as they have no desire to base themselves over here.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2015, 02:06:13 PM
(http://www.panicposters.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/f63dc5ec28f3175f8a7f615bd217eb71/p/p/pp32043-fistfull.jpg)

Liverpool have recalled Lawrence Vigouroux from his loan spell at Swindon Town after the 21-year-old turned up late for training and paid the subsequent £50 fine in pennies, according to reports.

The goalkeeper has been with the League One side since August and had played every game before being dropped for Saturday’s defeat to Colchester United.

Swindon Town boss Mark Cooper admitted afterwards that the ‘keeper had been dropped because of disciplinary reasons but refused to go into detail.

‘It’s a disciplinary internal matter. It’s come from me and the rest of the players. It won’t (cause an issue now) it’s been dealt with,’ said Cooper.

But the Daily Mail say the player was dropped for turning up late to training and then paying his £50 fine with bank bags full of pennies.

UPDATE

The Liverpool goalkeeper Lawrence Vigouroux has returned to Swindon Town on loan after apologising for paying a £50 fine with 5,000 1p pieces.

The 21-year-old had played nine games for Swindon after joining them on a season-long loan, but was sent back to Anfield on Monday after he used the coins to pay his fine for turning up late to training.

The manager Mark Cooper told the BBC: “Lawrence is going to come back, he is very humble and very apologetic. He knows the way he behaved was wrong and he has been in the changing room after the game and apologised to the players.

“He asked them if they wanted him back and they all said yes. Lawrence is an exceptional young goalkeeper and it’s important he learns from this little mishap and it will benefit his career going forward.”

The Swindon manager said he appreciated the humour, but that it had been perhaps misguided. “I thought it was brilliant banter, but in the context it was the wrong way to go about it. We are giving him a second chance, and I’m sure he will be grateful.”

Stupid kid. He needs to grow up fast and realise what a brilliant 'job' he has.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2015, 02:19:09 PM
I reiterate my claim if Rodgers stay the season we will not finish above 10th.

It's really hard to think up an argument against this that would stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

The opponent may change, the competition may change, the starting 11 and bench may change, but they're all incidental. The performances remain the same irrespective.

It's hard to see where the spark is going to come from that will ignite our season and then keep it burning brightly.

If we exit the UEFA Cup at the first hurdle it will be criminal. It offers the same prize as a top four finish but with far fewer games, and as the rest of Europe takes it seriously, it would lift our profile amongst any targeted player from Europe as wel as us being able to offer CL football to those who hold it so dear. It's the new 'must have' amongst players from outside the UK.

And the best thing is we get a trophy for it!!! We win a competition!!! Surely that has to be better than finishing in the top four unless we finish in first place in the top four. I'm not saying I don't want to finish in the top four, but I'd love us to qualify for the CL by actually winning something.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2015, 02:50:30 PM
Further to that there is management issues at the Red Sox too and one suspects they don't want to deal with both at the same time.

Some more background on this plus their entire hiring/firing record (and reasons surrounding them) whilst owning the Red Sox:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/fsg-stick-brendan-rodgers-10136290 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/fsg-stick-brendan-rodgers-10136290)

If the above link is anything to go by, Rodgers will surely be gone by the season's end unless he's put the League Cup in the trophy cabinet and all but sealed top four by the beginning of May.

I'd rather hold on though until an Ancelotti/Klopp/De Boer (in order of preference) is absolutely ready to take over. This season is dying on it's feet as it is. I'd rather not compound it and damage the future by rushing a replacement that isn't of the standard required.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2015, 11:20:44 PM
maybe Rodgers can get the Chelsea job.

 :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on October 04, 2015, 01:14:50 AM
An article in Swedish newspaper Expressen claim Klopp and his gang has signed a 3-year conract at Liverpool. The source of the article is Bosnian website Pravdabl.com. The reason a Bosnian website report this is Klopp's 2nd man att Dortmund was Zeljko Buvac of Bosnian descent.

Here's the article. It's in Swedish but then there's google translate.

http://www.expressen.se/sport/fotboll/premier-league/galna-ryktet-klopp-ar-klar-for-liverpool/

Probably nothing to it, though.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 04, 2015, 06:27:42 AM
maybe Rodgers can get the Chelsea job.

 :)

There is a God?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 04, 2015, 06:35:01 AM
I have a really bad feeling about today. I woke up a checked the news hoping we'd play yesterday and got the game out of the way. It's that bad.

Lakaku to do to us what Aguero did to the Barcodes yesterday. I can just feel it.  :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrkMjt--3Ds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrkMjt--3Ds)

They can.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on October 04, 2015, 11:08:41 AM
I have a really bad feeling about today. I woke up a checked the news hoping we'd play yesterday and got the game out of the way. It's that bad.

Lakaku to do to us what Aguero did to the Barcodes yesterday. I can just feel it.  :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrkMjt--3Ds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrkMjt--3Ds)

They can.  ;D

Me too have a bad feeling we'll win 3-0 while ManU and bottom draw taking us within touching distance of not only top 4 but the top spot itself. "All that despite our poor start to the sesaon" you can hear Rodgers stating to the world. Surely that would impress the ignorant owners to stick with what they have?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 04, 2015, 02:20:14 PM
half-time  Everton 1 Liverpool 1

lots of energetic, end to end, typical derby madness.

Fair bit of early pressure, and several half-chances for Liverpool. 

a couple of awesome defence-splitting balls from Lucas and Continho.

Best chance of the game after 25 minutes fell to Everton's Neysmith - free header.  where our central defenders were at, I have no idea.  Should have scored.  Easier to score, than not.

Ings doesn't see Sturridge in acres of space.  Poor awareness.

30 seconds later, Ings scores.....corner, the lad left totally unmarked, 4 yards out.

Lukaku equalised for Everton in added time, awful defending (as per usual).  Can is not a natural defender.  Poor clearance. 

Poor overall quality, from both sides.   

Everton's tactics are playing into liverpool's hands.  End to end, full-tempo, attack attack attack suits Rodgers.

Liverpool are a one-trick pony.  And Everton's boss is feeding carrots to the pony.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on October 04, 2015, 02:30:09 PM
Rinse and repeat.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 04, 2015, 03:29:44 PM
FT

1-1

end to end, usual derby mayhem.  Very little quality football on display from either side.

If it were a boxing match, Everton would have won it on points.

Liverpool now tenth in the league, after another 1-1.

Rodgers makes it through another week.  Next league game sees him go to Spurs.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 04, 2015, 03:32:10 PM
PS - why does Barkley get so many plaudits.

Big ego, torso, little else.  I thought he was rubbish today.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 04, 2015, 10:09:01 PM
(http://fat.gfycat.com/AntiqueBlushingGroundhog.gif)

Klopp dismisses Rodgers.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 05, 2015, 02:04:10 AM
(http://fat.gfycat.com/AntiqueBlushingGroundhog.gif)

Klopp dismisses Rodgers.

Class.  And the new WWE champion, Kaiser Klopp.


Brendan leads his last training session yesterday, demonstrating to Skrtel how he wants him to bring the ball out of defence more:

(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Horse-Exercise-Ball-Fail.gif)



But leaves the ground, dignity intact:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/SMy0BNwF3UKLm/giphy.gif)




Was that his ego he finally tripped over?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 06, 2015, 12:18:15 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQlbtZnUsAAvyjj.jpg)

August 10th 2014

Klopp stared at the spectacle and sound of the Kop for ages, before last year's friendly.

Was this when he fell in love with Liverpool.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 06, 2015, 12:19:20 AM
PS - final score was

Liverpool 4  Dortmund 0

 ??? :-\
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 06, 2015, 01:32:39 AM
PS - final score was

Liverpool 4  Dortmund 0

 ??? :-\

Ancelotti it is then.  ;D

My worry with Klopp is how everything seemed to go wrong at Dortmund. Maybe the tipping point was reached with player sales and Reus always being injured. He hasn't had a chance to prove anything one way or the other. It's a bit like Rodgers, only Klopp looked good for a much longer period of time, but even he ended up walking away, suggesting there were things he felt that made the recovery of their previous status unable to happen.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 06, 2015, 01:40:21 AM
Ancelotti it is then.  ;D

My worry with Klopp is how everything seemed to go wrong at Dortmund. Maybe the tipping point was reached with player sales and Reus always being injured. He hasn't had a chance to prove anything one way or the other. It's a bit like Rodgers, only Klopp looked good for a much longer period of time, but even he ended up walking away, suggesting there were things he felt that made the recovery of their previous status unable to happen.

there are pros and cons with both Ancelotti and Klopp.

Ancelotti, and I am a big fan, has only won 5 or 6 league titles IIRC, despite always being at big clubs.   He has no record of coming in and building up a club in the doldrums.

Klopp does have such a record, of competing with limited resources.

I would have said Ancelotti definitely three years ago (if not Rafa).

But now that our plonkers have dismantled our superb setup, and sold our best players, and not replaced other.....I am unsure if the job would suit Ancelotti.

There are no guarantees at this point, with any of these appointments.

The essential backroom staff, on the football and senior management side of things, are simply not there any more.   They have been discarded.

Our new boss will have his work cut out.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 06, 2015, 03:44:32 PM
there are pros and cons with both Ancelotti and Klopp.

Ancelotti, and I am a big fan, has only won 5 or 6 league titles IIRC, despite always being at big clubs.   He has no record of coming in and building up a club in the doldrums.

Klopp does have such a record, of competing with limited resources.

I would have said Ancelotti definitely three years ago (if not Rafa).

But now that our plonkers have dismantled our superb setup, and sold our best players, and not replaced other.....I am unsure if the job would suit Ancelotti.

There are no guarantees at this point, with any of these appointments.

The essential backroom staff, on the football and senior management side of things, are simply not there any more.   They have been discarded.

Our new boss will have his work cut out.

It's the amount (or lack of ) control that worries me and FSG's apparent insistence they know more about running a soccer club than anybody from Europe possibly could.

They need to bite the bullet and appoint real football people to the board and stop thinking they can re-shape things to what they understand from American sports. Either learn the reality, whilst forgetting about bastardised American 'sports' or appoint people who know the ropes and let them get on with it unhindered and unfettered.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 06, 2015, 10:48:48 PM
It's the amount (or lack of ) control that worries me and FSG's apparent insistence they know more about running a soccer club than anybody from Europe possibly could.

They need to bite the bullet and appoint real football people to the board and stop thinking they can re-shape things to what they understand from American sports. Either learn the reality, whilst forgetting about bastardised American 'sports' or appoint people who know the ropes and let them get on with it unhindered and unfettered.

absolutely, Tes.

FSG need to either shape up, or ship out.

They have been mugs these first three years.

Like I have said for a long while, they are ignorant - but whether it is down to arrogance, or contrariness, I am unsure.

Either way, they have dismantled the last remnants of a great club.  We are now into a whole scary new world.  I hope Klopp knows what he's letting himself in for.  This is gonna be a long tough project.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 06, 2015, 11:55:28 PM
(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/67/590x/secondary/Beckenbauer-360385.jpg)

"He is fantastic,” said Beckenbauer. “He is one of the best coaches I know in the whole world, and he was really a milestone for Borussia Dortmund."

“He took over the club and made them into a world-class team. If Liverpool has the chance to sign Jurgen Klopp then they should do it."

“He likes to talk. There are not many coaches left in the world that like to talk so much to the players but he is one of them.

"Liverpool is also one of the biggest clubs in the world, so Liverpool and Jurgen Klopp is definitely a good combination. He is also a winner.”
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 07, 2015, 01:29:23 AM
Brendan leads his last training session yesterday, demonstrating to Skrtel how he wants him to bring the ball out of defence more:

(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Horse-Exercise-Ball-Fail.gif)


 :)

Sakho takes the ball out of defence.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2015, 01:31:59 AM
:)

Sakho takes the ball out of defence.

Can't we re-sign Andy Carroll or Djimi Traore so we could use this gif every game?  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2015, 01:34:44 AM
PS - final score was

Liverpool 4  Dortmund 0

 ??? :-\

Obvious solution therefore is to get the bloke who managed us when we beat Klopp's Dortmund. Michael Edwards will no doubt be emailing FSG, right about now.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2015, 01:36:45 AM
:)

Sakho takes the ball out of defence.

Every time I see it it reminds me of Traore's own goal against Burnley.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 07, 2015, 01:39:17 AM
Every time I see it it reminds me of Traore's own goal against Burnley.

 :D

I know a few in here rate Sakho highly.

But I view him like Djimi Traore.   I can't help wonder how with that level of ball control, how such a player ever makes it to this level.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 07, 2015, 01:42:36 AM
Obvious solution therefore is to get the bloke who managed us when we beat Klopp's Dortmund. Michael Edwards will no doubt be emailing FSG, right about now.

 :)

no flies on our Edward.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2015, 12:09:46 PM
:)

no flies on our Edward.

Dude, read this. We're smoothered in blue bottles. Make sure you're seated and your stomach contents are welded in place. Here goes:

Liverpool's head of technical performance Michael Edwards is the laptop guru who did a number on Brendan Rodgers

Each morning, when Liverpool's principal owner John W Henry and director Michael Gordon wake up in Boston, their inboxes ping with emails from the club's head of technical performance.

Michael Edwards, who is based at Liverpool's Melwood training ground, has become FSG's go-to guy in England after aligning himself with the data-driven model of the group's baseball team, the Boston Red Sox.

This cosy relationship with FSG, dropping the owners emails throughout the day and increasing his power at the club, led to a strained relationship with former manager Brendan Rodgers.

Edwards encourages staff to use his nickname 'Eddie', giving a matey feel to the working environment. It is understood Rodgers has another name for him.

Edwards fell perfectly into place with FSG's Moneyball strategy, the statistical model designed to extract maximum value in the transfer market. Clearly, with the club 10th in the league and paying up to three times the going rate for players, it needs refinement.

Despite a lack of playing experience at any relevant level, Edwards, who earns £300,000 a year, has a big say on Liverpool's notorious transfer committee. He would arrive for meetings with Rodgers, managing director Ian Ayre, chief scout Barry Hunter and head of recruitment Dave Fallows armed with the latest data on potential targets.

The committee have yet to explain how they came up with the figure of £29million to sign Brazilian forward Roberto Firmino from Hoffenheim, who finished eighth in the Bundesliga last season.

Divock Origi, billed as 'a world-class talent' by Rodgers when he was signed from Lille, could not even come off the bench in the club's last two league games. There are countless other errors.

After each Liverpool game Edwards emails analysis and data to the club's owners in America, detailing where the match was won and lost. It has made for grim reading this season.

Edwards has used his relationship with FSG to strengthen his hand at the club, becoming a trusted source of information to a group of people who are obsessed with statistical analysis.

There is a relationship with Bill James, the American stats guru who is employed by the Red Sox to provide Henry and Gordon with data for their baseball team.

Edwards can tap away at a laptop and within seconds tell you how many assists the 24-year-old Turkish left back Eren Albayrak has made for Rizespor this season (four).

Edwards and his team of analysts have invented a new language for football. Strikers are all about goal expectancy, chances created and the percentage of successful passes in the final third. Old-school managers just want to know if the boy can put the ball in the net. Defensive midfielders are judged on interceptions and the number of challenges won in the centre of the pitch.

The increasing influence of analysts, young men who have no experience of scouting or recruiting players, has meant the end of the road for good football men such as Mel Johnson. He was the scout who recommended Liverpool sign talented young winger Jordon Ibe from Wycombe but was sacked, shamefully, in November 2014. Former academy director Frank McParland has also left.

Instead a new breed sits in air-conditioned offices, cutting up videos from matches all over the world and burying their heads in the stats. Edwards, along with his vast team of analysts, constantly monitors the opposition, providing detail about playing positions, style, routines, set-pieces and other important matchday information.

They profile players based on their last 10-20 appearances, gathering information and helping Rodgers build a presentation for his players before matches that was usually a maximum of 10 pages on each team. It is a useful, but far from infallible, tool.


Edwards, who is in his late thirties, began his career as part of the video analysis team at Portsmouth before leaving to work with Harry Redknapp again when he became Tottenham manager.

There, Edwards struck up a relationship with Ian Graham at Decision Technology, a data firm collecting statistics on players from all over the world.

Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy paid Decision Technology a fortune each season for their services, trusting their analysis and using Edwards, in his newly created role as head of performance analysis, to make sense of it all.

Edwards was head-hunted by Damien Comolli when the Frenchman became director of football at Liverpool, turning down an increased salary of £250,000 a year at White Hart Lane to join the Anfield revolution. Levy was distraught.

Since then he has emerged as a senior figure at Liverpool, empowered by FSG to make the call on big transfer targets after gaining their trust since his arrival in 2011.

His relationship with Rodgers deteriorated shortly after the former Liverpool manager signed a contract worth £6m a year just a week after Liverpool finished within two points of claiming the Barclays Premier League title.

They clashed over transfer strategy, although Rodgers went on record to insist that he always had the final say over the recruitment of players earmarked for the first-team squad.

In the end, Edwards had his number.




LIVERPOOL'S TRANSFER COMMITTEE

NAME: Ian Ayre

ROLE: Chief executive – discussing and finalising transfer fees during negotiations with selling clubs and taking care of player contracts.

NAME: Dave Fallows

ROLE: Head of recruitment – drafted in by FSG in 2012 after working for Manchester City and, before that, Bolton Wanderers. Co-ordinates Liverpool's scouting network and they report back to him individually. He is heavily involved in drawing up a shortlist of potential signings.

NAME: Barry Hunter

ROLE: Chief scout – Looked after Italy for Manchester City and had a number of contacts there. He follows up the recommendations of regional scout. He and Fallows were instrumental in identifying Roberto Firmino from Hoffenheim.

NAME: Michael Edwards

ROLE: Director of technical performance – In a nutshell, he assesses the data of players from leagues around the world and determines whether a player will be a suitable fit for Liverpool in terms of playing and economics. Worked at Portsmouth from 2003 to 2009 before moving to Tottenham.


Firstly my apologies to Jim for using so much bandwidth, but I felt it needed posting in full.

It's all so many types of wrong that I've lost count.

Anyone who thinks you can gauge a player, purely on stats wouldn't even manage to get football boots on the correct feet.

Stats can only be a tiny indicator. They're completely useless without the context of the matches in which they're earned.

Take a defensive midfielder, who makes an average of 1 tackle and 0.3 interceptions per match. He doesn't sound up to much until you realise that the team he plays in averages 80% possession per match, and of the opposition's 20%, 85% of that was in their own half. The majority of the rest of the 'possession' was either long balls from back to front, or diagonal long balls out to the flanks. Context.

A midfielder who has 6 goals and 4 assists in an entire season. Not up to much, until you see that he's actually created 79 chances and either his team plays with no out and out strikers, or the strikers have scored 4 goals between the 3 of them all season. Context.

How can you tell if a player will fit our team unless you watch him? He may not suit the style of play his current team employs (and therefore his stats are poor) but would be perfect in ours or vice versa, but stats won't tell you that.

We're losing eyes and gaining spread sheets. It's no wonder our transfer business stinks the place out.

To steal a line from the song Victims of the Future by Gary Moore - "Our fate is in the hands of fools."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpfpRLuYEa8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpfpRLuYEa8)  RIP Gary Moore.










Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on October 07, 2015, 02:51:43 PM
Depressing to say the least. I do wonder what role people like Edwards will hold when Klopp sign. This is, as far as I can tell, the exact opposite of everything Klopp stands for.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2015, 04:33:38 PM
Klopp had a director of football at Dortmund (Michael Zorc) who he worked closely with , but the key difference between Zorc and the likes of Hunter and Fallows, Ayre and Edwards (even more so), is that he knows a good player when he sees it, and that the player will also suit the style, rather than just being a good player or a good player on paper (Ayre and Edwards).

Edwards' role needs to be diminished or done away with, Hunter and Fallows 'Rodgersed' and replaced by proper scout(s) with a proper eye for a player. But their roles should be to support the manager. Assist in coming up with ideas and options for the manager to consider, along with the players Klopp, Krawietz and Buvac come up with for themselves. It shouldn't be to consider options for themselves and then have them brought in (independant of Klopp), or overrule Klopp if he doesn't agree with their suggestions and bring them in anyway, nor should they be considering whether Klopp and Co's candidates are suitable to pursue.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 07, 2015, 06:40:21 PM
Edwards' role needs to be diminished or done away with, Hunter and Fallows 'Rodgersed' and replaced by proper scout(s) with a proper eye for a player.

exactly.

the 6 stupidos that make up the "Transfer Committee" need to be shown the door.

Edwards and his yankee mate, Gordon, come across as arrogant dimwits.  They should stick with baseball, or something they have knowledge about.

FSG have demolished Liverpool FC, these past 3 years.  The fukwits need to realise that, and now bring in proper people to run the club.

And I was glad that Jamie Carragheer hinted at that, when speaking on the Sky panel, after the game on Sunday.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 07, 2015, 10:48:20 PM
it's very heartening to see so many top professionals in Germany, and beyond, who praise Klopp to the rafters.  Lo, Beckenbeur, Chairman Dortmund, players, ex-players, Didi Hamman, etc, etc. 

That amount of respect and praise is pretty unheard of.

Now, on the other side of the fence, isn't the lack of praise for Rodgers, deafening!  Beyond one or two pals (like Gary Monk at Swansea), and a formal football managers association statement, the silence has been astonishing.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 07, 2015, 10:51:50 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQuzE7HWUAALGg5.jpg)

Jurgen Klopp ordering an RS6 at Audi Liverpool.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 07, 2015, 10:52:47 PM
either that, or Abba are reforming.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2015, 11:41:20 PM
either that, or Abba are reforming.

Benny and Bjorn have morphed into one person. So they'll now be known as Aba.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2015, 11:45:02 PM
it's very heartening to see so many top professionals in Germany, and beyond, who praise Klopp to the rafters.  Lo, Beckenbeur, Chairman Dortmund, players, ex-players, Didi Hamman, etc, etc. 

That amount of respect and praise is pretty unheard of.

Now, on the other side of the fence, isn't the lack of praise for Rodgers, deafening!  Beyond one or two pals (like Gary Monk at Swansea), and a formal football managers association statement, the silence has been astonishing.

Klopp does appear to have garnered huge respect. He's probably the hungriest out of the trio we'd been linked with, and you do get the feeling he already had a huge respect for us, even a soft spot.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 15, 2015, 03:16:22 PM
After losing Joe Gomez to an ACL injury, we've now lost Danny Ings aswell, to the same injury, for the rest of the season.

Origi will definitely be getting his chance, as neither Benteke or Studge will be ever present for the rest of the season.

Klopp's job just got tougher.

B.I.F

Ban International Football.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 15, 2015, 03:20:56 PM
With Benteke, Firmino and Ings all out, I'd settle for a 0-0 at the Lane.

The worry is now that Studge could could also break if used too much.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on October 15, 2015, 05:41:02 PM
Surely this is sweet music in the ears of Dude and Tes!

'Everything is different in this moment of course. For sure we want to look different. That’s what I expect. We have worked together, not too often, but we have. I want to see more braveness, more fun in their eyes, want to see they like what they do. They’re really good boys, I’ve seen it in the week. Maybe if we can be as well organised as possible after this short time.

'It’s not allowed to think only about offensive things. I know we’ve not scored enough goals. But on the other sides we need to find stability. Find that and you’re free offensively.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3274363/Jurgen-Klopp-s-Liverpool-FC-pre-match-press-conference-Read-transcript.html#ixzz3oegRts3D
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3274363/Jurgen-Klopp-s-Liverpool-FC-pre-match-press-conference-Read-transcript.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 15, 2015, 07:11:32 PM
Surely this is sweet music in the ears of Dude and Tes!

'Everything is different in this moment of course. For sure we want to look different. That’s what I expect. We have worked together, not too often, but we have. I want to see more braveness, more fun in their eyes, want to see they like what they do. They’re really good boys, I’ve seen it in the week. Maybe if we can be as well organised as possible after this short time.

'It’s not allowed to think only about offensive things. I know we’ve not scored enough goals. But on the other sides we need to find stability. Find that and you’re free offensively.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3274363/Jurgen-Klopp-s-Liverpool-FC-pre-match-press-conference-Read-transcript.html#ixzz3oegRts3D
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3274363/Jurgen-Klopp-s-Liverpool-FC-pre-match-press-conference-Read-transcript.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

It was great to finally hear our manager once again talking sense. It's long held wisdom that it's the best way. Build from the back. Build on solid foundations etc.

What will be interesting to see is if/when Rodgers gets another job, to see if he's learned that lesson, and also whether he takes his 'scapegoat, Pascoe, with him.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 15, 2015, 11:22:15 PM
absolutely, Martin and Tes.

It was music to my ears, to finally once again hear a manager talk common sense.

One always builds from the back.  The less you concede, the less you have to score.  And scoring at the highest level is not easy (so best to minimise foolish concedes).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 15, 2015, 11:35:24 PM
(http://worldsoccertalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/richard-keys-andy-gray.jpg)

Brendan Rodgers has taken no time in landing a new job in football after Richard Keys revealed beIN SPORTS are set to sign the ex-Liverpool boss as a pundit.

The Reds sacked Rodgers just 11 days ago but he is ready to embark on a television role alongside Keys and Andy Gray in Qatar.

And, when asked if they were looking to recruit the Northern Irishman, lead anchor Keys said: ‘We will be – yes.’

BeIn Sports, which is based in Doha, Qatar, has the rights to broadcast live Premier League matches.

--------------------------

I always reckoned the Brentmaster General would go next into punditry. 

His ego would not allow him to take a step down (from Liverpool) after he has reached such heights (despite his limited talent).    IMHO

Plus, if he went to Villa, or some other such side, he would definitely be caught on, for what he is.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on October 16, 2015, 10:55:11 AM
It was great to finally hear our manager once again talking sense. It's long held wisdom that it's the best way. Build from the back. Build on solid foundations etc.

What will be interesting to see is if/when Rodgers gets another job, to see if he's learned that lesson, and also whether he takes his 'scapegoat, Pascoe, with him.

I think that his inability to learn his lessons was the main reason, not only for his sacking, but for our gradual decline in the past 15 or so months. So no, it'll be more of the same - he's too much an idealist to work at the highest level IMHO.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 16, 2015, 09:03:32 PM
(http://worldsoccertalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/richard-keys-andy-gray.jpg)

Brendan Rodgers has taken no time in landing a new job in football after Richard Keys revealed beIN SPORTS are set to sign the ex-Liverpool boss as a pundit.

The Reds sacked Rodgers just 11 days ago but he is ready to embark on a television role alongside Keys and Andy Gray in Qatar.

And, when asked if they were looking to recruit the Northern Irishman, lead anchor Keys said: ‘We will be – yes.’

BeIn Sports, which is based in Doha, Qatar, has the rights to broadcast live Premier League matches.

--------------------------

I always reckoned the Brentmaster General would go next into punditry. 

His ego would not allow him to take a step down (from Liverpool) after he has reached such heights (despite his limited talent).    IMHO

Plus, if he went to Villa, or some other such side, he would definitely be caught on, for what he is.

So we have one that likes to run his mouth, one that likes to run his mouth despite being utterly clueless and one somewhere in between the two. What a perfect trio, and in a place that includes 'DOH' in it's name. Homer Simpson really is real, I knew it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 16, 2015, 09:09:31 PM
I think that his inability to learn his lessons was the main reason, not only for his sacking, but for our gradual decline in the past 15 or so months.

Exactly. Sometimes a mistake proves to be a stronger turning point than when things are just 'ticking along'. Sometimes you have to learn how 'not to do' in order to better understand 'how to do'.

Rodgers will need to learn some humility before he can move on and learn. Being a pundit means he can talk all he wants, convince of it's authenticity and apparent sense, without any of it actually being put to the test.
Watch out for him reading from his 180 page manual rather than any script.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 16, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
Klopp: Liverpool must go to London and show what we can do

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-liverpool-must-go-london-10276290 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-liverpool-must-go-london-10276290)


What a brilliant read. How refreshing in this day and age to read someone talk sheer 'bloody common sense'. Accept the ways that work, not try and re-invent the wheel or be 'clever' for the sake.

He accepts what's good in football, what's known to work and just attempt to do that better than anyone else. Keep it simple and logical, but just strive to do it better.

It could almost have been Shanks or Sir Bob talking. No jargon, no b.s, no spin and no wool pulling.

It's nice to have a manager that admits he's a football romantic. A pragmatist, not an idealist, and make sure each step is learnt completely before moving on to the next one. Establish a solid foundation and from that things are possible. Try and be clever, ignore the proven and try and be fancy in disproving it and you'll be swallowed up by the mouth of disaster.

Rodgers ignored the obvious, that we leaked too many goals and tried to work every way around it instead of dealing with it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 17, 2015, 03:10:30 PM
(http://www.101greatgoals.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/howard-kendall.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxRMrD4LVE

Superb player and manager.

So sad to hear of his passing.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on October 17, 2015, 03:10:43 PM
A good point at the lane.

Thought Sakho and Clyne were immense and Lallana did really well.

With our No.4 striker on the field we couldn't expect much really. I thought we started well and our pressing was done very well - especially from Lallana.

Mignolet also did well saving us on more than one occasion. Plus a clean sheet!!

Onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 17, 2015, 03:14:09 PM
Klopp: Liverpool must go to London and show what we can do

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-liverpool-must-go-london-10276290 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-liverpool-must-go-london-10276290)


What a brilliant read. How refreshing in this day and age to read someone talk sheer 'bloody common sense'. Accept the ways that work, not try and re-invent the wheel or be 'clever' for the sake.

He accepts what's good in football, what's known to work and just attempt to do that better than anyone else. Keep it simple and logical, but just strive to do it better.

It could almost have been Shanks or Sir Bob talking. No jargon, no b.s, no spin and no wool pulling.

It's nice to have a manager that admits he's a football romantic. A pragmatist, not an idealist, and make sure each step is learnt completely before moving on to the next one. Establish a solid foundation and from that things are possible. Try and be clever, ignore the proven and try and be fancy in disproving it and you'll be swallowed up by the mouth of disaster.

Rodgers ignored the obvious, that we leaked too many goals and tried to work every way around it instead of dealing with it.

Very good read.

Yes, since the beginning of time, teams have always built from the back.

I am not so sure that Rodgers ignored that.  I suspect he was unable to.  I don't think he was as much stupid, as unskilled.

Yes, the article is pure common sense.....no spin, or football-speak jargon.

Keep it simple (after all, the vast majority of players are not terribly smart).  And work your socks off, and play as a team.

Not rocket science.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 17, 2015, 03:15:48 PM
Yes Edward, a good point at the lane.

I think most of us would have taken that before kick-off.

A clean sheet, despite so many injuries, and so little time to prepare.

Onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on October 17, 2015, 05:33:54 PM
Sakho, our next captain. Also, Can looked a new player and so did Lucas. This will be just fine, in time.


http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/624747/img.jpg
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 17, 2015, 06:23:33 PM
(http://www.101greatgoals.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/howard-kendall.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxRMrD4LVE

Superb player and manager.

So sad to hear of his passing.

Exactly. The booze probably did for him in the end.

Dalglish's tribute was nice too.

I hope we have a minute's silence as a show of respect at the next home league game.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 17, 2015, 06:24:48 PM
With Benteke, Firmino and Ings all out, I'd settle for a 0-0 at the Lane.

The worry is now that Studge could could also break if used too much.

I'm settled. Apart from Studge pulling up in training. I thought he might last a bit longer though.

Daniel Sturridge knee injury 'not serious' says Jurgen Klopp

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/10031443/sturridge-has-knee-problem (http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/10031443/sturridge-has-knee-problem)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 17, 2015, 11:55:12 PM
Exactly. The booze probably did for him in the end.

Dalglish's tribute was nice too.

I hope we have a minute's silence as a show of respect at the next home league game.

yes, I always imagined (from his bloated appearance) that he must have been on the alcohol in later years.

I have not seen Kenny's tribute as yet.

Yes, I hope we have a tribute at our next game.  Fate is a wonderful thing.  If things had been different in the mid to late 80s, his Everton team could have won a European Cup, or more, and dominated in England for several years.

Heysel and the ban from Europe was a big jolt to us all.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 18, 2015, 04:32:50 PM
Jurgen Klopp’s first game in charge of Liverpool may have ended up 0-0, but it’s clear to see that the German is already having an impact on his new team.

All the talk before the match was about how Klopp would make his Liverpool team run and press like they never have before – and it was pretty much spot on.

Mauricio Pochettino’s side are also renowned for their hard-working approach, but they’ve been outrun for the first time this season – by Klopp’s new charges.

According to Opta, Liverpool made 50 more sprints than Spurs during their meeting on Saturday, and while they weren’t able to breach their defence, these will be encouraging signs for Klopp.

Liverpool made 50 more sprints than Spurs (614 v 564) & were the 1st team to run further in a PL game than Spurs this season. Gegenpress
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 18, 2015, 04:33:55 PM
We used to call it, hard work.

Rushie would be our fist line of defence. 

But whatever one wants to call it - you don't win things without hard work.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 18, 2015, 06:54:14 PM
https://youtu.be/S3h6D1fPb28 (https://youtu.be/S3h6D1fPb28)

be careful of Greeks bearing stretchers.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 20, 2015, 01:03:19 PM
We used to call it, hard work.

Rushie would be our fist line of defence. 

But whatever one wants to call it - you don't win things without hard work.

Exactly, and working hard, and putting in maximum effort and always giving anything your best, is really satisfying.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 20, 2015, 01:05:39 PM
Sterling left due to Rodgers - agent

https://www.clubcall.com/liverpool/sterling-left-due-to-rodgers---agent-1785858.html (https://www.clubcall.com/liverpool/sterling-left-due-to-rodgers---agent-1785858.html)

Sterling would do a whole lot worse than jettison this fool.

Interesting point about 'good coach, bad manager'. It's hard to take anything that Ward says with any credibility, though.

Raheem Sterling would've shone under Jurgen Klopp - Aidy Ward

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/471105/Liverpool-News-Aidy-Ward-hails-Jurgen-Klopp (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/471105/Liverpool-News-Aidy-Ward-hails-Jurgen-Klopp)

Despite not being prepared to sign a contract unless it had a release clause in it. Right. Gotcha. Fool.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 21, 2015, 04:38:35 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaYNFXqHD5O3f0BpHuFTv3IgBpJiJaZLrLuFg6qVpPCxrg0RH3)

Fenerbahce's on-loan Liverpool winger Lazar Markovic has hit out at former boss Brendan Rodgers' tactical tinkering for his struggles at Anfield.

Markovic left the Reds after a single season in which he failed to make an impact, joining Istanbul giants Fenerbahce on loan where he linked up with former Manchester United players Robin van Persie and Nani.

And ahead of the club's Europa League match with Ajax, Markovic accused ex-Liverpool manager Rodgers of failing to cultivate an understanding with him.

“I didn’t have a good relationship with the coach,” Markovic said to Portuguese newspaper A Bola.
The Serbia international, signed by Rodgers from Benfica for €20 million after making a name for himself as a right winger, spoke of his frustration at being fielded in different areas of the pitch - including right wing-back - under the Northern Irishman.

"That was a problem. I played in many positions but didn’t play in mine," he added.

But Markovic has not called time on his Liverpool career yet, indicating he is looking forward to returning to Anfield under new manager Jurgen Klopp, who replaced Rodgers earlier in October.
“I do not look at the past… And Liverpool have a new coach.”

The 21-year-old has featured in four of Fenerbache's opening Turkish Super Lig games and helped Vitor Pereira's men to third in the table.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 21, 2015, 04:46:42 PM
Sterling left due to Rodgers - agent

https://www.clubcall.com/liverpool/sterling-left-due-to-rodgers---agent-1785858.html (https://www.clubcall.com/liverpool/sterling-left-due-to-rodgers---agent-1785858.html)

Sterling would do a whole lot worse than jettison this fool.

Interesting point about 'good coach, bad manager'. It's hard to take anything that Ward says with any credibility, though.

Raheem Sterling would've shone under Jurgen Klopp - Aidy Ward

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/471105/Liverpool-News-Aidy-Ward-hails-Jurgen-Klopp (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/471105/Liverpool-News-Aidy-Ward-hails-Jurgen-Klopp)

Despite not being prepared to sign a contract unless it had a release clause in it. Right. Gotcha. Fool.

exactly.

And Didi Hamann said:

"That Aidy Ward doesn't half talk some garbage. Time to zip it mate. Worry about City now not Liverpool anymore. The bridge is burnt."

And went on to say:

"He brainwashed the kid into move.   Rodgers backed Sterling no end and should take a lot of credit for his development"

"Made the kid do an interview without clubs knowledge. He's a tool."
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on October 21, 2015, 05:48:32 PM
Just watched the Bodgers section of Being Liverpool where he told off Sterling as a 17 year old, the foundations of them falling out probably...
Being Liverpool, one of the finest ways to stroke cock and ego to the modern day footballer/manager...never to be repeated by us ever...
....truly horrifying.... for any psychologist wanting to pinpoint an egotist then look no further than the babblings of our Brendan...
I'd seen bits...but nothing could have prepared me from the sheer horror of the 6 episodes...

Jesus wept...thank god he's gone...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2015, 08:50:34 PM
very poor first half.  Even against one of Russia's worst, we look very poor.  No confidence either.

the Rodgers era, is going to take at least 2 or 3 years to fix.

we have to undo 7 transfer windows, and a lot of damage done by the idiots in the transfer committee.

these past 18 months, I don't think I have ever seen a weaker Liverpool team.

we don't have any goals in the team, when our main strikers are out.

the likes of allen, milner, etc average 2 or 3 goals per season, across their careers.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2015, 09:18:54 PM
we need a lot more industry and hardness in that midfield. 

we have badly missed Henderson.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2015, 09:53:40 PM
overall, very poor performance - we have a team severely lacking in confidence.

positives - Can is making good progress, and stepping up to the mark.  His third season (i.e. next year) and I would expect him to  be fully up to the mark.   I think Can and Henderson will bring a lot to our midfield.   

Good to see Benteke back. 

Continho needs to be more creative, and less greedy (when he is within range).

Firminho needs to be better at decision making. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on October 23, 2015, 08:28:48 PM
What amazed me whilst watching the coverage of the game on BT Sport was Steve McManaman coming out with the statement that we would win/should win 4 or 5 nil before kick off.  I mean wtf?  What team have you been watching to think we're capable of that score line? 

You can try to polish turd as much as you like, but it's still turd!  We've plenty of turd that needs flushing down the toilet and I believe Klopp is the man who will get rid of that stench. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2015, 08:59:59 PM
What amazed me whilst watching the coverage of the game on BT Sport was Steve McManaman coming out with the statement that we would win/should win 4 or 5 nil before kick off.

yes, I also watched it on BT Sports 2.....and had to listen to muppets like McManaman and David James.

I wouldn't have those two anywhere near a microphone.

I laughed the other day, on reading that Stan Collymore is very upset with Villa (they have stopped his weekly match day columns).  Stan has been very vocal about Villa's poor performances (and overall management) in recent years.  And STan was perturbed that the owners didn't take him up on his offer, to help the club out - scouting players, advising, etc etc.  Like FFS, who the heck does Collymore think he is. 

Like our other muppets above, useless.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2015, 09:13:39 PM
aye, Klopp will have a lot of work on his hands.

Since our morons sacked Rafa, the club has been in free-fall.....a fact hidden for a year or two, by the world class Suarez.

the rodgers idiot, and the nutters on the transfer committee have had 7 transfer windows.  So Klopp has to reverse the rot brought in from those 7 windows.  It will not be easy, and it will take time.  And there is no guarantee that he will be able to do it.

I look at our defence, and especially our midfield, and shake my head.

Sakho and Skytrel, as our central defenders, terrify me.    I know some of you like Sakho.  Personally, I just cannot see it.

But the midfield is my main concern. 

Milner and Allen do not score goals.  So what the feck are they doing in our engine room.

Lallana, a 25 million man, has not created one goal this season, in the premiership for Liverpool or when playing for England.   Nor has he had any assists either. 

For me, Lallana has to step up to the mark this season, or else be gone.   He's 27.  He should be at the top of his career.

Our engine room is letting us down.  And that I suspect is down to some very poor buys by Rodgers, and the idiot committee.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 25, 2015, 05:17:42 PM
Half-Time

Liverpool 0 Southampton 0

Where exactly are our goals gonna come from.

I don't think I have seen a weaker Liverpool in all my 40 plus years watching the side.

We don't have a fit striker at the club.  Our midfield is a disaster - with nobody capable of scoring a goal.  And don't start me on central defence.   Heck, maybe defence is the least of our worries right now (and that says a lot).

Rodger and his committee of idiots had seven transfer windows, to do their damage. 

And wow, it is going to take us years to recover (if ever).

Klopp is a good man.  But he faces a mountain of a task.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 25, 2015, 06:22:22 PM
Full-Time  1-1

it’s now eight draws from their last nine games in all competitions.

it's dire stuff.......relegation form.

we couldn't even defend a one goal lead, for a final 15 minutes against Southampton, at home.

Two headers won without much of a challenge and their guy, Mane, was left with way too much space at the back post.     Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. 

Let's get to 40 points first, and build from there.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on October 25, 2015, 06:23:07 PM
We've won just 3 of the 25 halves of football we've played (+ 2 periods of extra time) this season.


We are the definition of an average team.


Jurgen Klopp has the toughest job of any manager we've appointed since Bill Shankly.

Klopp's saying on tv the players had no belief after we conceded.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 25, 2015, 07:00:51 PM
yes, there is a total lack of confidence right across the team.

It's been obvious since April - noticable after United beat us (22nd March), and we then faded and missed out on the CL places, after an awful April and May.

To give Rodgers, and the committee idiots another transfer window this summer,  was madness.

Klopp faces a mountain of a challenge. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2015, 01:00:12 PM
anyone recommend a good Liverpool forum to join?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 27, 2015, 09:01:16 PM
Rodgers gets his fiendish revenge:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/anfield-evacuated-police-search-liverpool-stadium-after-man-goes-missing-a6710941.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/anfield-evacuated-police-search-liverpool-stadium-after-man-goes-missing-a6710941.html)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2015, 10:17:57 PM
Rodgers gets his fiendish revenge:

“At 3.05pm, the club reported to Merseyside Police that the ground had been evacuated after a man who had been on a tour was unaccounted for and believed to be in the stadium.

“The club cannot guarantee that the man has left the ground and therefore a search of the ground is underway.”

 :)

aye, images of the Brentmaster General hiding out at Anfield....refusing to take his P45.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 27, 2015, 10:52:52 PM
anyone recommend a good Liverpool forum to join?

Anfield Road.com readily springs to mind.  ;D

I can't stand the politics and cliques on most of the others, so I no longer bother, so aren't really up to speed on things now.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2015, 11:34:51 PM
Anfield Road.com readily springs to mind.  ;D

I can't stand the politics and cliques on most of the others, so I no longer bother, so aren't really up to speed on things now.

agreed.

but there are so few of us here.....and even less of late.  :(

So little debate or discussion - even after games.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2015, 11:37:29 PM
Mourinho these past weeks, seems to have entirely lost the plot at Chelsea.

I wonder if he has lost the dressing room (after verbally bashing a few players a while back).

He also seems to have a suicide mission against the FA.   Pure and utter madness.

Would it be too much to hope that Brendan might get the job at Stamford Bridge!   And icing on the cake, take his backroom team with him.   :D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on October 28, 2015, 06:54:29 AM
Bizarre what Mourinho is doing...he's so arrogant though that he's probably doing it on purpose and hanging round for bets...

I saw the game on sunday and i thought we were pretty comfortable until we bloody scored..then it was back to panic stations and us looking nervous...Klopp will no doubt concentrate on this lack of belief that we can actually close down the game and keep it tight...our defence still looks weak when a ball is crossed in...

Can and Lucas have been reborn...but we're horribly lacking with our crocked strikers. Maybe the Bournemouth game will allow younger strikers to get a run out like Texeira etc...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2015, 04:14:33 PM
our defence still looks weak when a ball is crossed in...

I have zero confidence in our centrebacks, Skytrel and Sakho.

One needs a core solid dominant centrehalf - in the mould of a John Terry, Steve Bruce, Sami Hyypia, etc.

One cannot afford two headless chickens, who one has no confidence in, and cannot depend upon.

But having said that, our key problem is we are not scoring goals - either from upfront, or midfield.   If we only score one goal per game, then we will draw or lose our games.

We need goals.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2015, 04:21:56 PM
Bizarre what Mourinho is doing...he's so arrogant though that he's probably doing it on purpose and hanging round for bets...

yes, his behaviour is that of someone mentally ill.   I'd almost worry if he was suicidal.

How can a team that runs away with the league title in May, be so bad a few months later.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2015, 09:57:35 PM
Final Score

Liverpool 1 Bournemouth 0

we're in the last 8!

promising signs from the youngsters.

but again, a lack of goals is continuing to cause the club issues.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 30, 2015, 03:48:41 PM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_e52yOZXMvK4/Se1tYRAWF3I/AAAAAAAAA_Q/NqbHwBbTJTE/s400/Tumbleweed_on_highway162.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 30, 2015, 09:48:29 PM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_e52yOZXMvK4/Se1tYRAWF3I/AAAAAAAAA_Q/NqbHwBbTJTE/s400/Tumbleweed_on_highway162.jpg)

This that a giant hedgehog about to become a highway blocking roadkill?  ;D

Or has Rodgers pulled all his hair out?  Maybe he's finally cleaned the plug hole out in his mansion, now he's got some free time.

I wonder if his dossier has changed any over the last three and a bit seasons? Maybe there's a new chaptor, "Dealing with the sack".
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 30, 2015, 10:01:17 PM
Final Score

Liverpool 1 Bournemouth 0

we're in the last 8!

promising signs from the youngsters.

but again, a lack of goals is continuing to cause the club issues.

The goals are an issue, but I'm much happier that we've tightened up defensively, or at least we're not conceding as many. The lack of goals is less likely to bite us than under Rodgers, and I'd prefer to see Klopp getting the defence remembering what it's supposed to be like to know how to defend, gaining in confidence and hopefully that confidence spreading through the team.

He's got a lot of work to do on the squad to re-balance things, provide creativity, provide goals from a wider spread of players than just one or two forwards, and do it without losing effectiveness in defence.

The squad has been slapped together in a haphazard fashion, rather than being pieced together carefully and thoughtfully.

I'll settle for a steady progression from now to the season's end and picking up victories on a very regular basis, even if they're just by the odd goal each time.

Southampton will be another good test and see if we can overturn them this time.

Hopefully our improvement will gain momentum by the end of February, just in time to finish the season strongly, after we've won the League Cup, even on penalties, of course.  ;D

Mourinho's successful first spell started with a League Cup, though he did have a more balanced squad to work with.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2015, 01:18:37 PM
Chelsea 1 up after 4 minutes.

Now can one of the premiership's worst defences, keep out one of the premiership's worst offences.

I suspect we will struggle to break the blues down.

And Chelsea will break things up, by going to ground and rolling around.  Maybe even get one of our lads sent off.   As desperation creeps in, they could score again later.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2015, 01:22:45 PM
The goals are an issue, but I'm much happier that we've tightened up defensively, or at least we're not conceding as many. The lack of goals is less likely to bite us than under Rodgers, and I'd prefer to see Klopp getting the defence remembering what it's supposed to be like to know how to defend, gaining in confidence and hopefully that confidence spreading through the team.

He's got a lot of work to do on the squad to re-balance things, provide creativity, provide goals from a wider spread of players than just one or two forwards, and do it without losing effectiveness in defence.

The squad has been slapped together in a haphazard fashion, rather than being pieced together carefully and thoughtfully.

I'll settle for a steady progression from now to the season's end and picking up victories on a very regular basis, even if they're just by the odd goal each time.

Southampton will be another good test and see if we can overturn them this time.

Hopefully our improvement will gain momentum by the end of February, just in time to finish the season strongly, after we've won the League Cup, even on penalties, of course.  ;D

Mourinho's successful first spell started with a League Cup, though he did have a more balanced squad to work with.

yes, Tes, Klopp is building from the back.  You and me are big on that.

It will take time.

Although Klopp says he has got the tools.  I think our team is badly in need of some top players.

I think our midfield is awful, in terms of offering any offensive threat.  Central defence is another area.  I wold totally rehaul my central defence.

Attack is not bad, if we could keep our players off the treatment table. 

 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2015, 01:24:39 PM
Hopefully our improvement will gain momentum by the end of February, just in time to finish the season strongly, after we've won the League Cup, even on penalties, of course.  ;D

 :)

yes, it would be awesome to get a trophy this season, like the league cup.

tho southampton away, will not be easy.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2015, 02:19:02 PM
what a dirty bugger Costa is......the FA may well suspend him for that.

And typical Jose and Chelsea, desperately bullying the ref, to try and get Lucas sent off.  It is little wonder that the FA, and football community, are now fed up with the bloke and the club.   I think we have all had enough.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2015, 02:37:46 PM
three-one.

A great victory.

For large parts of this game, we looked like the home team.

Klopp and the lads are getting it together.    Continho has found his form again.  And that was crucial.  Benteke continues to impress. 

If we can score goals on a regular basis, we are going to head up the table.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 31, 2015, 03:34:06 PM
yes, Tes, Klopp is building from the back.  You and me are big on that.

It will take time.

Exactly. Even though we've changed manager, it's now clear just how deep the problems on the defensive side go.

Skrtel, 3 seasons + without defensive coaching. Sakho, 2+, Moreno into his 2nd season, and he's still learning his trade.

I've kept banging on until I've even bored myself rigid about our defending since Rodgers came to the club. Even when we blitzed 5s and 6s past weak teams, they could still put 2s and 3s past us.

I wonder whether most of our defenders, as a collective, are beyond the point of help. Individually, within a well organised defence, they could probably manage.

I know that may seem a daft thing to say, but it takes much longer to build than to destroy, and in Skrtel's case, there's been 3 seasons of destruction. And this, in a player that was hardly ever exactly the best defender I've ever seen.

When we had Carra, Agger, Skrtel etc, before Rodgers arrived, I always said Skrtel was the worse of the lot, yet under Rodgers he was seen as our main man. That says it all, for me.

For a team that pinged the ball about nicely when Suarez was here, we've now become a clueless mess. How can that be? Suarez wasn't a midfielder schemer, sitting there pulling the strings, the conductor of the footballing equivalent of the Halle Orchestra.

As a defender, you look at yourself at any given second, and ask yourself "who am I marking, who am I picking up". It the answer's 'nobody' then there's something wrong.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on October 31, 2015, 03:45:37 PM
Didn't beat a single top 4 team away from home under Rodgers, done it at the first try with Klopp
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2015, 03:58:10 PM
Didn't beat a single top 4 team away from home under Rodgers, done it at the first try with Klopp

exactly.

and it was the nature of the victory.

apart from an early blues goal due to sloppy defending, we totally bossed the game.

we won 7 corners, they got 1..................we had 7 strikes on target, they had 2.

we had 57 % of the possession.

like I said earlier, it looked like we were the home team.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2015, 04:04:28 PM
I wonder whether most of our defenders, as a collective, are beyond the point of help. Individually, within a well organised defence, they could probably manage.

When we had Carra, Agger, Skrtel etc, before Rodgers arrived, I always said Skrtel was the worse of the lot, yet under Rodgers he was seen as our main man. That says it all, for me.

For a team that pinged the ball about nicely when Suarez was here, we've now become a clueless mess. How can that be? Suarez wasn't a midfielder schemer, sitting there pulling the strings, the conductor of the footballing equivalent of the Halle Orchestra.

Suarez was the great magician.  When he led the offence, our woes at the back were hidden from view (i.e. to the ordinary fan).  And I also think he inspired others to put in the effort that he did.

Like you say Tes, Skytrel was always the weakest defender in the past - but Rodgers sold our best defenders, and Skytrel became his main man....bizarre.

I have no faith in Skytrel or Sakho.  Sakho to my eyes, has always looked like a footballing cousin of that other top reds defender,  Djimi Traore.   An accident waiting to happen.

I think there will be changes in central defence this summer.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 31, 2015, 04:31:23 PM
what a dirty bugger Costa is......the FA may well suspend him for that.

And typical Jose and Chelsea, desperately bullying the ref, to try and get Lucas sent off.  It is little wonder that the FA, and football community, are now fed up with the bloke and the club.   I think we have all had enough.

Mourinho's team have always 'played on the edge' of the rules, even back in his Porto days. I imagine it's an integral part of his training routines at every club he's managed.

Unfortunately there's people within football who expose the loopholes or flexibilities within the rules, going to the exact letter, rather than understanding there's a moral inference too.

Costa + Mourinho = carnage

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 31, 2015, 05:03:08 PM
Didn't beat a single top 4 team away from home under Rodgers, done it at the first try with Klopp

Fair do's, Brendan was only half way through re-inventing the wheel and hadn't quite perfected those square corners, though we turned a few, as is our way over the last few years.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 31, 2015, 05:20:47 PM
Suarez was the great magician.  When he led the offence, our woes at the back were hidden from view (i.e. to the ordinary fan).  And I also think he inspired others to put in the effort that he did.

Like you say Tes, Skytrel was always the weakest defender in the past - but Rodgers sold our best defenders, and Skytrel became his main man....bizarre.

I have no faith in Skytrel or Sakho.  Sakho to my eyes, has always looked like a footballing cousin of that other top reds defender,  Djimi Traore.   An accident waiting to happen.

I think there will be changes in central defence this summer.

Sakho looks ungamely in his posture, but I remember Viv Anderson's lack of silk like movement, hence his nickname Spider, because he looked like he that many legs. 

Sakho, maybe has the potential to develop, it's hard to tell as easily as with others because of his gait, but Skrtel's beyond help.

We need pace at the back, and obviously aerial prowess, at least for the league. An organiser would also be an improvement too.

So Sami Hyypia with Ferdinand's or Saul Campbell's pace.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2015, 05:34:06 PM
Mourinho's team have always 'played on the edge' of the rules, even back in his Porto days. I imagine it's an integral part of his training routines at every club he's managed.

Unfortunately there's people within football who expose the loopholes or flexibilities within the rules, going to the exact letter, rather than understanding there's a moral inference too.

Costa + Mourinho = carnage

yes, and I feel that this season there has been a collective sigh, from across the football community......where, the genie is out of the bottle.....even the regular fan now knows, enough is enough.

I think the ongoing Costa thing has finally brought it to a head.

And now Chelsea are not getting anywhere with their efforts at bullying, and playing their childish games.   That game is done.  After years and years of it, it is over.

They are on the naughty step, and all the while blubbering away, and crying "why me? why me?"
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2015, 05:34:43 PM
Fair do's, Brendan was only half way through re-inventing the wheel and hadn't quite perfected those square corners, though we turned a few, as is our way over the last few years.  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2015, 05:39:12 PM
Sakho looks ungamely in his posture, but I remember Viv Anderson's lack of silk like movement, hence his nickname Spider, because he looked like he that many legs. 

Sakho, maybe has the potential to develop, it's hard to tell as easily as with others because of his gait, but Skrtel's beyond help.

We need pace at the back, and obviously aerial prowess, at least for the league. An organiser would also be an improvement too.

So Sami Hyypia with Ferdinand's or Saul Campbell's pace.

I loved knowing Big Sami was in central defence.  A rock.   99.99 percent of the time, he made the right choices.

Sakho's gait and posture is an issue.  I like my defenders, especially my central defenders, to inspire confidence.  I just do not see that with Skytrel or Sakho.   I think Germany will be raided, come the summer, for a decent defender.

 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on October 31, 2015, 08:27:55 PM
I actually forgot that under Brendan we did beat Man Utd away 3-0. However I don't consider that as they had Moyesiah as manager therefore its meaningless :D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on October 31, 2015, 09:44:53 PM
I actually forgot that under Brendan we did beat Man Utd away 3-0. However I don't consider that as they had Moyesiah as manager therefore its meaningless :D

Edward, even I'd give Rodgers that one fair and square.  ;D  The Moyesiah had our number on more than one occasion over the years, so a win over the Mancs, with the ex-Evertonian God at the helm, is to be savioured, not dismissed. It would trigger the release of a DVD box set over at Woodison if the equivalent happened.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on November 01, 2015, 12:41:25 PM
Just recovered from celebrating and then dressing up as Jason from Firday the 13th...got in at 6 am...awesome day...but i digress...
I loved how suddenly we didnt panic when chavski scored...i loved how we harrased the opposition like we did under benitez...i love how we brought on benteke and his fresh legs absolutely murdered cahill and terry...i loved how skrtel didnt react when he got kicked in the ribs by that nonce costa...i loved how we smiled and laughed and looked like the home team at stamford bridge...
Loving the klopp thang...
Far from perfect but a HUGE improvement over the Bodgers...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on November 01, 2015, 06:58:13 PM
What an incredible performance.  I honestly thought that the plastic club we're going to hammer us when they scored so early!  Had this been Rodgers and not Klopp in charge, I'd have switched off the tv........  Actually, a close friend of mine was close to doing that until I told him to wait.  Wait, see if the players react and boy did they react.  All the lads did well in particular Sakho who I thought was immense doing the simple things but being efficient and effective in what he was tasked to do.  It was his long ball up field to our forward players that helped create our second goal if memory serves me right.  I think the only player who was relatively poor throughout the game was our number 7, James Milner.  He failed with the initial challenge that led to Chelsea's first goal (not helped by Moreno sight seeing allowing Rameries to score).  He was weak in the challenges, technically poor with ball and failed to get in decent crosses from the right wing.  Judging by his substitution I guess Klopp was thinking the same.







Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 03, 2015, 01:25:55 PM
Although Mourinho is in meltdown, and thus takes all the media attention.

What must be noted, is that despite having so little time here, and so few resources to call upon, Klopp's tactical masterclass enabled us to play Chelsea off the park.

I even saw it beforehand.  Jose looked very apprehensive, and nervous, when pictured alongside Klopp.     

Klopp is a superior manager.  And Jose knows it.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on November 03, 2015, 03:49:27 PM
Totally agree Dude.  We've finally (since Rafa) have a manager who we can proud of and puff out our chests whilst walking down the street...lol
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2015, 02:35:16 PM
Totally agree Dude.  We've finally (since Rafa) have a manager who we can proud of and puff out our chests whilst walking down the street...lol

great minds, Gurdeep.  I was thinking the same.....the out-thinking we did of Chelsea, and bossing them off the park, was Rafa-esque.

Mind you, Chelsea were poor.   I had expected them to exploit their one nil lead.  But they had no confidence at all. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2015, 02:39:49 PM
Couple of points from the papers over the past two days.

We might be bringing in Klopp's old colleague/friend/best-man/God-father to his child and Dortmund coach, David Wagner.     That would be great news.

And secondly, I noted Ian Ayre yesterday, when speaking of the transfer committee, making (what I thought) was a pointed dig at the Brentmaster General.

“Brendan had the final say on all the players we signed,” said Ayre at the Web Summit in Dublin, Ireland. “There’s only one person that has the final say over what players at Liverpool Football Club and that’s Jürgen Klopp right now. That’s always been the case for as long as I’ve been here,” he explained.

“The words ‘transfer committee’, I think, got used once and became this idea that we all sit round a table and have a vote on every player we sign. That couldn’t be further from the truth.”
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2015, 02:41:10 PM
In discussing how things worked, Ayre went on to say:  “The point that has been made about the committee, and I don’t think we did anything any different to most football clubs, is that the manager will say we are looking for somebody in this position and a bunch of people – a mix of traditional scouts and more recently analytical and digital-based information – bring all of that together as was always the case,” explained the Reds chief executive.

“Then we look at two, three, four players, the best players for that position, show them to the manager and the manager can go watch or have the scouts go watch those players and narrow it down. At that point I’ll become more involved and start talking to clubs, agents, players on a negotiations basis and then the manager will choose,” he said, outlining the processing. “The committee, and we don’t think of it as a committee, just the media do, is really a collaboration of all those people that all contribute to let the manager make that decision, and I think that’s very smart.”
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2015, 07:16:38 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQkzhzQWgAE4fPp.png)

Jurgen Klopp said: “All I can say is that I’ve had contact with Stevie - one phone call and a few messages"

“He is a legend. If he’s in Liverpool and wants to train ahead of next season in LA that’s absolutely no problem. Nothing else.”

I am liking thus guy more and more!

He is spot on.  I wouldn't have Gerrard (or Carragher) anywhere near Anfield.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2015, 08:11:02 PM
Another match unbeaten.

Those 3 points make our Europa League group a little more comfortable.

A good classy win.  With better offensive players, we could have scored a few. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on November 05, 2015, 10:30:00 PM
Another match unbeaten.

Those 3 points make our Europa League group a little more comfortable.

A good classy win.  With better offensive players, we could have scored a few.

I'd be more generous than that dude. I'd say this was by quite some distance our best European performance since the days of Rafa. Things are happening fast for us now. It's obvious the players are quickly picking up on Klopp's ideas and there is a moment of Rodgers in it all to be perfectly honest. That's 3 goals conceded in the last 6 which I don't think have happened in a while. What a difference a well balanced team does.

I know Allen's far from everyone's cup of tea but I really thought he had a good game tonight. Sakho's our next captain, Clyne's getting better and Ibe's showing signs he has the raw talent to become our new Barnes.

All in all a very impressive performance. The only regret I have is we didn't bury the game first 30. In time that'll come. As long as we looked this cohesive and composed you won't hear me blame regardless of the result (I hope).

Bring on the Eagles!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 06, 2015, 01:37:38 PM
I'd say this was by quite some distance our best European performance since the days of Rafa.

 :) :) :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 06, 2015, 01:45:00 PM
Things are happening fast for us now. It's obvious the players are quickly picking up on Klopp's ideas and there is a moment of Rodgers in it all to be perfectly honest. That's 3 goals conceded in the last 6 which I don't think have happened in a while. What a difference a well balanced team does.

absolutely, Martin.

now you know why I always keep banging on about balance.

with a properly balanced side, we are not leaking needless goals, and being constantly stretched.

If we had not conceded that late goal against Southampton at Anfield, we would be two points better off, and sitting pretty two points off 4th, and only 6 points adrift of the leaders.

This is a very poor premiership.  With a half decent side, we could do well.

I still think he needs resources.  We have too many midfielders who can't score, and rarely assist.  Milner and Allan being two obvious examples.   That puts too much pressure on the likes of Continho and Firmino, to create or score.  We need more strength in reserve - especially for a team that wants to play energetic pressing football.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 08, 2015, 03:50:55 PM
absolutely, Martin.

now you know why I always keep banging on about balance.

with a properly balanced side, we are not leaking needless goals, and being constantly stretched.

If we had not conceded that late goal against Southampton at Anfield, we would be two points better off, and sitting pretty two points off 4th, and only 6 points adrift of the leaders.

This is a very poor premiership.  With a half decent side, we could do well.

I still think he needs resources.  We have too many midfielders who can't score, and rarely assist.  Milner and Allan being two obvious examples.   That puts too much pressure on the likes of Continho and Firmino, to create or score.  We need more strength in reserve - especially for a team that wants to play energetic pressing football.

If our midfield players were ice cream, they'd be vanilla flavour, but with more ice than flavour. We definitely lack goals, creativity, a spark etc in midfield.

It will be interesting to see if Klopp bothers with the January window. I think he sees the folly of too many changes or changing too quickly and hopefully he'll only make a couple of changes in the Summer.
We need stability, not this constant Summer churn in players.

Whilst I'd like to see Mignolet upgraded, I think the priority has to be re-jigging all aspects of midfield.

Hopefully Ilori gets a chance next season, as that could allow us a change in personal at the back without the need to bring in a new face. Flannagan's return will make the full back positions look stronger.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 08, 2015, 03:56:15 PM
Liverpool team: Mignolet, Clyne, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno, Lucas, Can, Coutinho, Ibe, Lallana, Benteke

Substitutes: Bogdan, Lovren, Allen, Brannagan, Teixeira, Firmino, Origi


Whilst I like Firmino, it's good to see Klopp using him carefully whilst he's still adapting to the league and the increased physicality and physical load, and with him already having been injured this season.

Good to see Brannagan and Teixeira finally getting some recognition. I never understood why Rodgers constantly overlooked him (Teixeira), and also Ibe being rewarded for his mid-week performance. Nothing motivates a player more than being rewarded for a good performance with a place in the starting 11 for the next game.
Milner's got a hamstring problem, which will be a blessing if it sees him miss the England games, get a bit of a rest and hopefully a chance to re-focus and re-assess and step up a level or two when he gets back.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 08, 2015, 06:15:05 PM
If our midfield players were ice cream, they'd be vanilla flavour, but with more ice than flavour. We definitely lack goals, creativity, a spark etc in midfield.

Whilst I'd like to see Mignolet upgraded, I think the priority has to be re-jigging all aspects of midfield.

yes, midfield is our priority.

we presently have a toothless midfield.

Continho is our only midfielder who scores the occasional goal.    The rest of them are a waste of space (Allan, Milner, Lallana, etc).

I have said it previously, Lallana has to start creating and scoring, or else he should be sold in the summer.  He is 27 or 28, and at the peak of his career.  He has to do the business, or be gone.

As for the forward line - if Sturridge is to play little part across the rest of this season, then sell him, or claim the insurance.  Enough is enough.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 08, 2015, 06:20:00 PM
Whilst I like Firmino, it's good to see Klopp using him carefully whilst he's still adapting to the league and the increased physicality and physical load, and with him already having been injured this season.

Good to see Brannagan and Teixeira finally getting some recognition. I never understood why Rodgers constantly overlooked him (Teixeira), and also Ibe being rewarded for his mid-week performance. Nothing motivates a player more than being rewarded for a good performance with a place in the starting 11 for the next game.
Milner's got a hamstring problem, which will be a blessing if it sees him miss the England games, get a bit of a rest and hopefully a chance to re-focus and re-assess and step up a level or two when he gets back.

we have badly missed Henderson.  We will look a lot better when he returns.

Milner is not my cup of tea.  If I want a holding/sweep type of midfielder, then I want someone who is world class at that job (e.g. Mascherano, Didi Hamann).  If I want an attacking midfielder, or a wide man, I want a top notch player for those roles.    Milner (like Allan) is a little bit of everything, and a whole lot of nothing.

I'd never have bought him....and would move him on in the summer.

Players like Can and Firmino need time to show what they can do.

But Can today, gifted Palace their fist goal.  He did the same against Everton.  For goodness sake man, clear your lines, when you are inside your box.

Firmino did not cover himself in glory for Palace's winner.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 11, 2015, 06:36:40 AM
this forum is on it's last legs.

 :(

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on November 11, 2015, 10:00:45 PM
Indeed our midfield does seem a bit pedestrian.

I've told many people who wouldn't listen that Henderson is vastly underrated. He is. True he isn't technically brilliant but he has assets that our midfield badly needs such as energy, his acceleration beyond the likes of our attacking minded players to get into the box, his intelligent reading of play, his positioning, determination and decision making. Not to mention his assists and goals record increase each year. What he won't be and never will be is a tiki-taka midfielder, or technically proficient. But he sets the tempo like no one else in our midfield can do and as such we miss his presence and leadership.

But yes Milner, Can, Lucas are not going to trouble the assist or goal scoring charts. So in that sense its a problem. I think there is more to come from Can though, eventually.

Milner is a problem in the sense that I get where you are coming from. However I would not want to lose him from our squad just yet and I'll explain why. We lack leadership and experience and a winning mentality. We also lack character i.e. players who crumble under the first setback. Milner doesn't crumble. Thing is he was perfect for City as they didn't have to rely upon him but knew they could use him and use his quality in that way. Whereas our lack of quality means that Milner's lack of quality shows up more in our team than it would in city's.

Problem will be if and when Klopp signs another DM/CM and partners Henderson would he accept being behind those 2 and probably Can as well. Can't see it.

My immediate concern though is our centre back partnership of Skrtel-Lovren now that Sakho is out till past Christmas. Frankly I'm scared shitless whenever those two are at the back together.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on November 12, 2015, 09:49:16 AM
I would not want to lose him (Milner) from our squad just yet and I'll explain why. We lack leadership and experience and a winning mentality.

Did we purchase another player with the same surname?  ;)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 14, 2015, 02:22:37 PM
this forum is on it's last legs.

 :(

Dude, we're small, but perfectly formed.

I haven't been around much as I've been spending quite a lot of time at my parents' looking after them, as Mum had a full knee replacement recently, but in a few more weeks things should be back to normal.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 14, 2015, 02:31:20 PM
Indeed our midfield does seem a bit pedestrian.

I've told many people who wouldn't listen that Henderson is vastly underrated. He is. True he isn't technically brilliant but he has assets that our midfield badly needs such as energy, his acceleration beyond the likes of our attacking minded players to get into the box, his intelligent reading of play, his positioning, determination and decision making. Not to mention his assists and goals record increase each year. What he won't be and never will be is a tiki-taka midfielder, or technically proficient. But he sets the tempo like no one else in our midfield can do and as such we miss his presence and leadership.

But yes Milner, Can, Lucas are not going to trouble the assist or goal scoring charts. So in that sense its a problem. I think there is more to come from Can though, eventually.

Milner is a problem in the sense that I get where you are coming from. However I would not want to lose him from our squad just yet and I'll explain why. We lack leadership and experience and a winning mentality. We also lack character i.e. players who crumble under the first setback. Milner doesn't crumble. Thing is he was perfect for City as they didn't have to rely upon him but knew they could use him and use his quality in that way. Whereas our lack of quality means that Milner's lack of quality shows up more in our team than it would in city's.

Problem will be if and when Klopp signs another DM/CM and partners Henderson would he accept being behind those 2 and probably Can as well. Can't see it.

My immediate concern though is our centre back partnership of Skrtel-Lovren now that Sakho is out till past Christmas. Frankly I'm scared shitless whenever those two are at the back together.

Pretty good summary.

It says it all about our recruitment policy that Milner is seen as important, in terms of bringing experience, and a 'keeping his head up' mentality.
When played regularly his limitations become evident. He's suffered throughout his career from being 'adaptable' and a good pro who doesn't complain about where he's asked to play. He's never really developed as a player in certain position.

Edward, totally agree re Skrtel and Lovren. They're the Keystone Cops of a central defensive pairing.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 14, 2015, 02:51:14 PM
The upside from the defeat is that the unbeaten run pressure has gone. Granted, the run hadn't been long enough to build any real pressure yet, but it would have done had it continued.

It will also tell Klopp a lot more about his squad, and was a good lesson about the PL for him and his assistants. We'll emerge stronger as a result, I'm sure.

I wasn't bothered about signings in January, as I'd rather everyone bedded in to both Klopp's methods, others overlooked by Rodgers be given a 'sensible' chance (not one game and then dismissed), and the new players from the Summer got used to the league and team mates, whilst those who came last Summer (that are still actually here) hopefully started to 'push on', however, with Sakho's injury, I'd rather we brought forward the required revamping of our centre halves, and if we can acquire a quality centre half in January, then we do so.

I'd prefer we left midfield alone until the Summer, despite it being the obvious weak area. Wait and see how Hendo develops under Klopp once he's back, and see how Lucas, Can, Milner etc shape up as the season progresses and Klopp's methods become more engrained.

I'm not sure that any of our midfielders are 'safe'. We obviously lack pace across midfield,  creativity can be another low point and a few goals wouldn't go amiss either. We can't rely solely on our 'proper' forwards like Benteke, Studge etc or our 'attackers', Coutinho, Firmino, Ibe and Lallana, to provide all the goals and creativity amongst themselves.   
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 19, 2015, 02:31:12 PM
Sturridge is finally fit, but I'd rather he had more training sessions and worked on his fitness than was rushed back against Man City. It's only one game and threre's only 3 points at stake. Why risk his participation in the rest of the season for one game?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on November 20, 2015, 06:25:47 PM
I can't see Sturridge starting tomorrow...but coming on for the last 20 mins against tired legs might work a treat. I'm looking forward to the game and as i think kompany is out then we might create some chances. Aguero will be playing so skrtel and lovren better be sharp.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 21, 2015, 06:05:04 PM
it's half-time.

decent enough first half.








































































































 :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 21, 2015, 06:35:37 PM
Dude, we're small, but perfectly formed.

I haven't been around much as I've been spending quite a lot of time at my parents' looking after them, as Mum had a full knee replacement recently, but in a few more weeks things should be back to normal.

hi Tes.  I hope your mum is ok.

yes, with no Martin, and you and me only sporadically here, things are very quiet here of late.

 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 21, 2015, 06:38:06 PM
our two Brazilians (Firminho and Countinho) are really starting to develop a very impressive understanding.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Ed on November 21, 2015, 07:15:49 PM
I seem to recall some numpty harping on about the
need to rebuild before his departure.

No, we just needed a decent manager with heart and ambition!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 21, 2015, 07:39:07 PM
we do need several new players in, to take us to a new level.

but, isn't it amazing when you have a top manager in, the clear and obvious difference (between a good one, and an average one).

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Ed on November 21, 2015, 08:06:15 PM
but, isn't it amazing when you have a top manager in, the clear and obvious difference (between a good one, and an average one).
Dude, I recall you nailing it several years ago, Rodgers as a David O' Leary type.

All I know now is that it feels like LFC for the first time in ages. I'm enjoying it  :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on November 21, 2015, 08:43:29 PM
Have had worse nights...........
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 21, 2015, 08:57:44 PM
Dude, I recall you nailing it several years ago, Rodgers as a David O' Leary type.

All I know now is that it feels like LFC for the first time in ages. I'm enjoying it  :)

yes, Ed, Rodgers was too in love with himself and his words.   Those (like O'Leary and Rodgers) who keep boasting how humble they are, to anyone that will listen, are not very smart.

Yes, Ed, great set of away results at Chelsea and now City.   Just imagine when we get in a few top players, to take us to a new level.  People like Allen and Lallanha will, I suspect, be moved on. 

Great to see Firminho find his feet.  He looks a class act.  And a great understanding developing between him and his Brazilian mate, Continho.   Mind you, City's scouts will have been at the game today, eyeing Continho.   :)

Lovren actually had a decent game today. 

We know we can play on the counter attack, even with a limited number of scorers.  But the key now will be to get the tactics that can enable us to win at Anfield.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 21, 2015, 10:10:48 PM
Sterling, you took a pounding today!

I'll get me coat.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on November 22, 2015, 09:42:44 AM
We were pretty awesome yesterday. Full credit to Klopp for having the guts to leave Sturridge and Benteke on the bench. Firmino and Coutinho worked wonders.
Leaving both strikers on the bench will also make them think a bit. That they're no longer guaranteed a starting place.
With a few quality additions like Lewandoski and Reus we'd slaughter a lot of teams. Can but dream, but at least i'm dreaming again.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 22, 2015, 08:42:32 PM
With Klopp, reputations and price tags are meaningless. Which is great.

I agree with you, Dude. Lallana's on borrowed time unless he improves both the level of his 'best' performance and consistency at reproducing it.

He neither creates or scores enough to warrant a place in the first team.

It's amazing how the manager having faith in all his players can make a huge difference, and none of them are his buys.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on November 22, 2015, 10:36:45 PM
Lallana was excellent yesterday though.

Interview after the game - Klopp drops the F bomb   :D

https://streamable.com/3e5h
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 22, 2015, 10:52:03 PM
With Klopp, reputations and price tags are meaningless. Which is great.

I agree with you, Dude. Lallana's on borrowed time unless he improves both the level of his 'best' performance and consistency at reproducing it.

He neither creates or scores enough to warrant a place in the first team.

It's amazing how the manager having faith in all his players can make a huge difference, and none of them are his buys.

agreed, Tes.

Within only weeks of being here, he has turned around a group of players who previously couldn't beat up an egg, to beating Chelsea and City away from home. 

As Bart says above, with our two Brazilians so prolific, Sturridge and Benteke will now know they are not the be and end all.

Llahana needs to step up this season.  He's late 20s, he should be at his peak.  Milner also is a player that brings very little, beyond hard work, to the party.  If his ghastly pass-back error had led to a goal yesterday, we may have been looking at a very different result yesterday.   And as for Allen, I suspect Klopp alrady has his mind made up on him.

Just imagine when Henderson gets back.  We have badly missed him.  He will take our midfield to another level.

Such a shame that Klopp was not brought in early summer.    If he had had a summer to bring in some players, we may well have had a chance at the league.

Heck, I still have not ruled us out yet, from putting in a run for the title this season.    If only we can get our home tactics sorted, we are as good as anyone in this division.  We were , in so fiercely attacking the ball yesterday, looking like Dortmund.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 23, 2015, 02:19:24 PM
agreed, Tes.

Within only weeks of being here, he has turned around a group of players who previously couldn't beat up an egg, to beating Chelsea and City away from home. 

As Bart says above, with our two Brazilians so prolific, Sturridge and Benteke will now know they are not the be and end all.

Llahana needs to step up this season.  He's late 20s, he should be at his peak.  Milner also is a player that brings very little, beyond hard work, to the party.  If his ghastly pass-back error had led to a goal yesterday, we may have been looking at a very different result yesterday.   And as for Allen, I suspect Klopp alrady has his mind made up on him.

Just imagine when Henderson gets back.  We have badly missed him.  He will take our midfield to another level.

Such a shame that Klopp was not brought in early summer.    If he had had a summer to bring in some players, we may well have had a chance at the league.

Heck, I still have not ruled us out yet, from putting in a run for the title this season.    If only we can get our home tactics sorted, we are as good as anyone in this division.  We were , in so fiercely attacking the ball yesterday, looking like Dortmund.

Interestingly, Leicester are top with the lowest points total for a first placed team after 13 games in the history of the PL.
We're only just over a third through the season, so if we can keep improving we may just get into the top four.
I think there's a group of 6 or 7 after 5 European spots and depending on how the likes of Leicester, Palace and West Ham last the course, that number swells. The difference between the Mancs, Arsenal and the rest of us, is that so far both teams have kept picking points without being that great.

Even if we have to grind out 1-0s at home to collect the points, it doesn't matter, until Klopp's had a chance to get rid of a few that potentially hold us back and bring in some pace throughout the squad and get in a few players of his choosing.

It would be exciting if he could bring in a few lesser knowns, and also promote from the U-21s, and develop players into top class ones like he did at Dortmund.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 23, 2015, 02:22:05 PM
All I know now is that it feels like LFC for the first time in ages. I'm enjoying it  :)

There's a feeling that things are 'possible' rather than seeing the difference between reality and Rodger's version of it, and know we'll be going nowhere fast as long is the status quo remains.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the next two windows are going to work.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 23, 2015, 02:23:36 PM
Sterling, you took a pounding today!

I'll get me coat.

A new depth has just been plumbed.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 23, 2015, 02:25:14 PM
Lallana was excellent yesterday though.

One down, 2/3 of a season to go.  :P  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 23, 2015, 02:27:41 PM
our two Brazilians (Firminho and Countinho) are really starting to develop a very impressive understanding.

We have a Brazilian spine with Lucas (the perennial comeback kid). Now, are there any decent Brazilian keepers out there?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 23, 2015, 02:46:50 PM
It's a shame about Ings' injury, as I get the feeling he will prove to the ideal Klopp-type striker, more so than Benteke.

I wonder whether Benteke has the mentality to deal with the effort required every game when you play for a big club.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 24, 2015, 03:26:43 AM
We have a Brazilian spine with Lucas (the perennial comeback kid). Now, are there any decent Brazilian keepers out there?

 8)

you're probably old enough, like me, to remember the time when we all laughed and shook our head at how bad Brazilian goalkeepers were.   ::)

I see we have been linked over the past few days with a couple of offensive Argentinians.   

And one gets the vibe that Klopp is going to have an awful lot more pulling power re transfers, that Rodgers ever would have had.....especially in the German market.

I saw over the weekend, where Klopp said that last year in Germany, Firminho was the top player in the Bundesliga for several months.....and that when Liverpool bought him, he said to himself "good choice"


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 24, 2015, 03:28:33 AM
It's a shame about Ings' injury, as I get the feeling he will prove to the ideal Klopp-type striker, more so than Benteke.

I wonder whether Benteke has the mentality to deal with the effort required every game when you play for a big club.

I wonder the same, Tes.   

As for Ings.  I know he has the heart and the energy.  I just need to wait and see if he has the technique and composure to go with it. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 24, 2015, 03:30:48 AM
Interestingly, Leicester are top with the lowest points total for a first placed team after 13 games in the history of the PL.
We're only just over a third through the season, so if we can keep improving we may just get into the top four.
I think there's a group of 6 or 7 after 5 European spots and depending on how the likes of Leicester, Palace and West Ham last the course, that number swells. The difference between the Mancs, Arsenal and the rest of us, is that so far both teams have kept picking points without being that great.

Even if we have to grind out 1-0s at home to collect the points, it doesn't matter, until Klopp's had a chance to get rid of a few that potentially hold us back and bring in some pace throughout the squad and get in a few players of his choosing.

It would be exciting if he could bring in a few lesser knowns, and also promote from the U-21s, and develop players into top class ones like he did at Dortmund.

if we can produce performances, like we did at Chelsea and City, we can win the league.  We can be top 4 by the end of December.

But our home form needs to get sorted, and sorted fast. 

It is frustrating to have not dismissed Rodgers in May, and had Klopp in sooner.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 24, 2015, 06:05:15 AM
Lallana was excellent yesterday though.

Interview after the game - Klopp drops the F bomb   :D

https://streamable.com/3e5h (https://streamable.com/3e5h)

very interesting post match interview on the pitch, for NBC

Thanks for posting it.

I love Klopp's thinking.

e.g. towards the end, he's asked about two episodes, where he's giving off during the game, to first Firminho, and then later to Can.

He said he was telling Firminho to stay forward, i.e. do not think of yourself as a midfielder who can play as a striker, but instead, as a forward who can play midfield.

And Can (like I always told my own players), if you are too tired to get back, then do not go forward. 

Klopp knows his football, and it is a mistaken impression to think that he is always smiling and shaking hands with players......this guy can use the hairdryer when he needs to.

Impressive stuff.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 24, 2015, 06:06:58 AM
by the way, I meant to say this sooner.

Can's back heel for our goal, was one of the best back heels we will see all season.  Awesome.

If Gerrard had done that, we would have never heard the end of it, and he'd have been knighted for it by now.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2015, 08:54:00 AM
you're probably old enough, like me, to remember the time when we all laughed and shook our head at how bad Brazilian goalkeepers were.   ::)

Right up, or should it be down, there with Scottish goalkeepers.  ;D

If you couldn't get up and down the pitch from goal line to goal line for the entire 90 minutes, or make the ball curve enough to at least write an "s" in the air, then you had to play in goal in Brazil.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2015, 08:57:52 AM
Klopp knows his football, and it is a mistaken impression to think that he is always smiling and shaking hands with players......this guy can use the hairdryer when he needs to.

Impressive stuff.

Exactly. Don't hand out blame if you're not prepared to hand out praise too, and vice versa.

Klopp is like a breath of fresh air. Air free from b.s and spin and oxygenated with just good old pure common sense.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2015, 04:09:29 PM
Right up, or should it be down, there with Scottish goalkeepers.  ;D

If you couldn't get up and down the pitch from goal line to goal line for the entire 90 minutes, or make the ball curve enough to at least write an "s" in the air, then you had to play in goal in Brazil.

excatly.   :)

And if you played Brazil, in the 60s or 70s, just get a shot on target - you may very well score.

And back then, we all used to shake our heads at these 'foreign keepers' who always elected to punch away shots and crosses.  Our keepers always tried to catch, usually.

I was watching the poor Scottish goalkeeper's performance (Kennedy?) the other night when they lost at 5-1 Wembley in the 70s.   He had a nightmare that day.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2015, 04:10:29 PM
(http://cdn.itv.com/uploads/editor/medium_x-_5UiD7PVYPTLitI5SEzWUf7iVlMGBqIPixAQuOwdU.jpg)

It got worse, much worse.

Invading Scots. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2015, 04:13:59 PM
Exactly. Don't hand out blame if you're not prepared to hand out praise too, and vice versa.

Klopp is like a breath of fresh air. Air free from b.s and spin and oxygenated with just good old pure common sense.

absolutely.  He is like a breath of fresh air.    And I am ultra impressed with his level of English.   He knows the language better than many of the premiership's ex-players who are working in the media.

That link that Edward posted above, where Klopp is interviewed on the pitch, after the City game, makes for great viewing.  The guy does not seek any big compliments, nor does he want to get ahead of himself.  He tells the others to calm down when they start to go overboard in praise.     Rodgers would have been milking it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2015, 04:16:15 PM
where's Martin?

Bluddy ironic.  When we are in positive times, he disappears!

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2015, 03:17:06 PM
I was watching the poor Scottish goalkeeper's performance (Kennedy?) the other night when they lost at 5-1 Wembley in the 70s.   He had a nightmare that day.

Stewart Kennedy of Rangers, I think it was.

British and Irish keepers very rarely punched, they usually gathered cleanly. On the occasion they did, it was a two fisted punch most of the time, as if you could only reach it with one hand then you shouldn't have gone for it in the first place. That was the way keepers were taught back then, and most of them were physically well put together.
Paul Cooper of Ipswich was probably the smallest of the bunch, but he was no shrinking violet and a brilliant penalty saver.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2015, 03:22:26 PM
(http://cdn.itv.com/uploads/editor/medium_x-_5UiD7PVYPTLitI5SEzWUf7iVlMGBqIPixAQuOwdU.jpg)

It got worse, much worse.

Invading Scots.

What happens next? The crossbar broke. I think that was the year they removed turf from the Wembley pitch also.

Just to even it up though, Clem had a nightmare against the Scots when he let in a soft goal, going down to gather the ball, it went through his hands and between his legs, from the tamest shot Dalglish must have ever had. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtDJu_Ge8Sw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtDJu_Ge8Sw)  5:51 minutes in.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2015, 02:27:40 PM
Fa Chairman Greg Dyke angers Premier League over plans to cut top flight to 18 teams

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/622759/Fa-Chairman-Greg-Dyke-Premier-League-18-teams-News (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/622759/Fa-Chairman-Greg-Dyke-Premier-League-18-teams-News)

I totally agree with this, but to help any individual or group of clubs, or to allow a mid-Winter break either. Christmas period football in this country is a long held tradition, and we should be proud of our traditions not jettison them just to 'fall in line'.

The reason I'm all for it is to avoid this sort of thing (from the article): He (Dick Scudamore) will also tell Dyke that if he is worried about fixture congestion then he should look at scrapping FA Cup replays.

I miss the multiple replays in the FA Cup. We need to stop undermining the FA Cup in order to pander to the league. We used to have 42 games in the league, and FA Cup replays could number 2 or even 3, in order to finally 'earn your place' in the next round.

The FA Cup needs to be given back the respect it's earned and once had. The FA Cup final should always be the last game of the season. The showpiece that brings the curtain down on the season.
The semi finals should not be at Wembley. Save Wembley's place for the final and also think about the fans of Northern and Midlands clubs having to make two trips to the money pit of London, and why should the London economy benefit from two semi-finals? The economies of the regions from where the teams are should benefit. London gets way more than it's fair share of everything.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2015, 04:40:47 PM
25 mins gone.

We are playing Swansea off the pitch.  Best I have seen us at Anfield for a long time.

The game is pitched in the final Swansea third.

Relentless stuff.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2015, 04:51:49 PM
Fa Chairman Greg Dyke angers Premier League over plans to cut top flight to 18 teams

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/622759/Fa-Chairman-Greg-Dyke-Premier-League-18-teams-News (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/622759/Fa-Chairman-Greg-Dyke-Premier-League-18-teams-News)

I totally agree with this, but to help any individual or group of clubs, or to allow a mid-Winter break either. Christmas period football in this country is a long held tradition, and we should be proud of our traditions not jettison them just to 'fall in line'.

The reason I'm all for it is to avoid this sort of thing (from the article): He (Dick Scudamore) will also tell Dyke that if he is worried about fixture congestion then he should look at scrapping FA Cup replays.

I miss the multiple replays in the FA Cup. We need to stop undermining the FA Cup in order to pander to the league. We used to have 42 games in the league, and FA Cup replays could number 2 or even 3, in order to finally 'earn your place' in the next round.

The FA Cup needs to be given back the respect it's earned and once had. The FA Cup final should always be the last game of the season. The showpiece that brings the curtain down on the season.
The semi finals should not be at Wembley. Save Wembley's place for the final and also think about the fans of Northern and Midlands clubs having to make two trips to the money pit of London, and why should the London economy benefit from two semi-finals? The economies of the regions from where the teams are should benefit. London gets way more than it's fair share of everything.

agreed re we should maintain our traditional festive period of football games.

absolutely, Wembley should only be used for the final.  And the semis should be held, as in the old days, elsewhere, ideally in the north and midlands (e.g. Villa Park, Old Trafford, Anfield, St James Park, etc). 

And like you say, the final should be the last game of the season.

In terms of too much football, and limiting it, for me the problem is the massive number of European games these decades.  Far too much CL football, and Europa League.  Way too much of that stuff.  IMHO.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2015, 04:55:45 PM
I miss the multiple replays in the FA Cup.

me too.

I recall, was it maybe 1974 or 75, when Leeds (big then) and 4th division Wimbledon went to 3 or 4 replays.  There would be a special midweek special, on ITV, late on (maybe 10.30pm, after the News at Ten news was over) to show such games.

Memories, oh memories.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2015, 04:59:32 PM
What happens next? The crossbar broke. I think that was the year they removed turf from the Wembley pitch also.

Just to even it up though, Clem had a nightmare against the Scots when he let in a soft goal, going down to gather the ball, it went through his hands and between his legs, from the tamest shot Dalglish must have ever had. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtDJu_Ge8Sw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtDJu_Ge8Sw)  5:51 minutes in.

yes, I watched those highlights the other night, along with several other 70s home internationals at Wembley.  Wonderful stuff.  Took me back.

Bad moment for Clemence.  I think he was surprised by how poor the shot was, that's what done for him.

 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2015, 05:01:08 PM
Stewart Kennedy of Rangers, I think it was.

British and Irish keepers very rarely punched, they usually gathered cleanly. On the occasion they did, it was a two fisted punch most of the time, as if you could only reach it with one hand then you shouldn't have gone for it in the first place. That was the way keepers were taught back then, and most of them were physically well put together.
Paul Cooper of Ipswich was probably the smallest of the bunch, but he was no shrinking violet and a brilliant penalty saver.

agreed.

yes, if our lads did punch, it was a two handed, full weighted, punch.

I think in foreign leagues, the keepers got a lot more protection. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2015, 05:05:35 PM
the second 20 minutes of the first half, were a different story.

Swansea came back into it.  Some very sloppy passing at times from our midfielders.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2015, 05:08:23 PM
Benteke looks very static.

We were far more fluid, when he isn;t leading the line.

Disappointed with his touches.  Too much of the Costa about him - and not enough putting the ball in the net.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on November 29, 2015, 06:18:23 PM
With spurs, chelsea, man utd, arsenal and leicester! all dropping points that was an absolutely vital 3 points. Unbelievably we're only 6 points of off 1st place. Not that I am thinking that but its all to play for.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2015, 07:55:23 PM
With spurs, chelsea, man utd, arsenal and leicester! all dropping points that was an absolutely vital 3 points. Unbelievably we're only 6 points of off 1st place. Not that I am thinking that but its all to play for.

If we can just keep chipping away, picking up points and see where we are after the 38th game.

It was good to get a second win in a row at home. Ultimately, wins will bring confidence and belief, which in turn will bring better performances.

Klopp and his assistants will still be learning the difference between how games home and away play out, and the difference in approach from away teams at Anfield to what they will have experienced in the Bundesliga.

Yes, it was a massive weekend for gaining points on those above us.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2015, 07:58:07 PM
Swansea came back into it.  Some very sloppy passing at times from our midfielders.

We seem to lose concentration and our passing suffers as a result. We're still early in the learning curve with both new players and a new manager. I think we'll see the real improvement from the end of February onwards.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2015, 08:27:09 PM
With spurs, chelsea, man utd, arsenal and leicester! all dropping points that was an absolutely vital 3 points. Unbelievably we're only 6 points of off 1st place. Not that I am thinking that but its all to play for.

this is what I have been saying.

despite very poor home form, we are sitting right on the tails of the leaders.   We are a mere 6 points off top spot, and it is only the end of November.

IF, and it is a big IF, we can get our home tactics and formation sorted,  our ambitions should not be limited to merely a top 4 spot.

I think we can push on now, with Henderson back.  We badly missed him.

Isn't it frustrating though, if only we had sacked Rodgers in May, and brought Klopp in earlier.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2015, 08:30:04 PM
We seem to lose concentration and our passing suffers as a result. We're still early in the learning curve with both new players and a new manager. I think we'll see the real improvement from the end of February onwards.

agreed.

I think Henderson is going to steady the midfield, and provide a lot more energy.

We really cannot be playing the likes of Allen, and expecting too much.  Hendo will make a big difference.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on November 29, 2015, 08:37:33 PM
I'm not getting carried away here but we are 6 points off the top. We have been to Old Trafford, Etihad, Emirates, WHL, Goodison Park, Britannia and Stamford Bridge. Arguably the seven hardest away grounds in the country.

Now I don't seriously expect us to challenge for the title but one can dream so aim not for the ceiling but aim for the stars - and if we fail to reach those stars we may just land on that ceiling  :D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on November 29, 2015, 09:51:51 PM
Hi folks, been off for a while due to work and family committments.

I'm very very happy with progression under Klopp. We really look like belief is getting back into the team.

For the first time in a very long time I expect us to win games. During Rodgers final year I expected us to lose. What a difference it makes. We do indeed have a good enough game to win the league this season, I doubt, however, we have the players and today's game was a testament to that. 6 wins from the last 7 speaks volume. 6 Points from the top with the half way mark approaching rapidly. I'm not getting carried away but as Edward said we've been to a few fairly difficult places and picked up som very valuable points. If Jürgen can sort out of Anfield woes I am confident we will not be playing Europa League next season.

It's really pleasing to see how our ability to win back the ball high up the pitch has developed very very quickly. As of yet we haven't learnt the trade of capitalising on it, but it helps building our confidence missing a pass or failing a dribble isn't be all and end all - in time we'll kill teams doing what we're doing.

I believe Klopp is the best thing that happened this club since Paisley. Just take his comment his ambition is to make players wanting to stay rather than leave. I can't say how happy I am he's with us.

Lucas - wow!!! What an improvement!!! Our most important player alongside Sakho? Very happy for him to finally get the praise his long time loyalty to the club deserve. Absolutely fantastic thus far and I think we could all see how sorely he was missed tonight altough Can had one of his better games recently.

For the record, I thought Henderson was very impressive after coming on tonight. The quality of his passing outbettered any player on the pitch. Either of Can and Milner will be looking over their shoulders I suspect.

Benteke will take time but will ultimately come good I believe.

I'm not saying we're gonna finish in this or that place but I have a certain feeling this season will hold something special for us Liverpool fans. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on November 30, 2015, 01:26:49 PM
Hi folks, been off for a while due to work and family committments.

It's good to have you back, Martin, and I hope all is well with the family.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 01, 2015, 05:42:23 PM
Hi folks, been off for a while due to work and family committments.

I'm very very happy with progression under Klopp.

For the first time in a very long time I expect us to win games. During Rodgers final year I expected us to lose. What a difference it makes. We do indeed have a good enough game to win the league this season, I doubt, however, we have the players and today's game was a testament to that.

It's really pleasing to see how our ability to win back the ball high up the pitch has developed very very quickly. As of yet we haven't learnt the trade of capitalising on it

I believe Klopp is the best thing that happened this club since Paisley.

hope your folks are ok, Martin.  As Tes says, good to see you back.

good post.  I agree with pretty much all of what you said.

I was a tad concerned (and I saw a few others say the same) that Klopp would not be able to play his pressing game (heavy metal football) 90 minutes of every game.    BUT I did feel (and said it in here a few times) that Klopp would be a smart enough man to tweak and find solutions, to this new league he found himself in.

And so he has.

He is on top of our away strategy.    The games at Chelsea and City, were awesome.  I felt proud, and pumped my chest out, at how we blew those teams off their own pitch.   

If, and if it is a big IF, Klopp can get our home form sorted, we can go close this season.

But ultimately, I just don't think we have the quality in depth, especially in the offensive areas (of midfield and attack) to get us to the title. 

My frustration, of what could have been, is high.  If only we had sacked Rodgers in May, we could be looking at an even rosier scenario right now.

It is amazing, after the ridiculous sacking of Benitez, that we were still able to attract someone as awesome as Klopp.  Stunning capture. 

He reminds me of a young Alex Ferguson, coming down from Aberdeen.  He is only 48 years old IIRC. 

We could be sitting at the start of a very special era in Liverpool's history.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 02, 2015, 12:52:50 PM
Family is fine Dude, thanks for asking.

Me too am concerned we won't be able to play Rammstein-footy for 90 minutes throughout 60+ games a season. I was a bit encouraged by his remark "we need to learn to win games". To me that suggest he realise that much himself and that the high pressing game can only be used during periods of the game. I think there are signs we're getting there step by step. Our defending towards the end of games isn't as struck by panic it was under Rodgers. But I do think we concede too many corners late in the game. Any team can score from a corner so that needs to get rid of.

Newcastle (a), WBA (h), Watford (a) and Leicester (h) next 4 games. 10 points from those would be a brilliant, although perhaps overly optimistic, return and would see us climb further up the table a position or two. I am a tad split about tonight's game. If we progress there's a good chance we'll face two games against either of City or the Bitters while January  homegames against Arsenal and the Mancs in the space of 4 days is already in the fixture list. It would mean 13 games during December and January (I really think they should reconsider this two leg fixture in the semi's as they're always played coming out of a hectic Christmas period). At the same time this probably represent (as per usual) our best way to win a piece of silverware this season.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 02, 2015, 01:00:56 PM
Family is fine Dude, thanks for asking.

That's good to hear, Martin.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 02, 2015, 01:16:08 PM
As fans we need to learn to embrace 'winning ugly'. In the PL, it seems the higher up the table you get, the more defensive an approach you face at home.
Whilst it's great to blitz the lower positioned teams, it's ultimately about the three points.

In our heyday, we didn't blow everyone away. We were just better and more pragmatic at picking up a win than everyone else. The how we won was never as important as the fact we did.
Shanks and Sir Bob were the ultimate pragmatists, and Taggart learned that lesson early.
I forget how many times over their period of dominance I've been keeping an eye on the scores, been excited to see the Mancs being held whilst we were winning, only for them to nick a late goal, and all of it without playing well, or blitzing a team without scoring.

It's where Wenger's philosophy has let him down over the years. He's never been satisfied with three points. He's also wanted 10/10 for artistic impression also.

The irony is that if we start to find a way through stubborn, hardworking defensive teams, and start taking them apart rather than 'catch them out on the break', teams will become ever more defensive and resolute.
Keeping the score low actually raises the chance that opposition who set out to do nothing but keep a clean sheet, may well come out to play if they're only a single goal down, and that will allow us to counter.
Of course, they may shut up shop further, but in doing that, they are actually helping us defend our lead by being more defensive minded themselves.

 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on December 02, 2015, 06:30:18 PM
I understand you are split on tonights game Martin however we have the squad to deal with it - when everyone is fit I may add!

So were we to reach the semis and play city or neverton then January's schedule is something the squad should be able to deal with. Plus you hope we may have 1 or 2 additions to the squad then.

I think it'll be a hard game tonight though. We won't blitz them and I expect a 1-0 0-1 2-1 1-2 type scoreline.

TBH if we win tonight I'd prefer city in the semis giving us a better chance if we were to reach the final. City in January will have one eye on the CL 1/16 tie too...

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 02, 2015, 11:55:46 PM
I think it'll be a hard game tonight though. We won't blitz them and I expect a 1-0 0-1 2-1 1-2 type scoreline.

That's what I was thinking too.

It's good to be wrong. Occasionally.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 03, 2015, 12:06:19 AM
Stoke in the semis. It's perfect. Everton and City are more likely to be our rivals in the league come February than Stoke, meaning one of them will also have an additional game, like us, if we get past Stoke.

Then either a Merseyside derby, which would raise the profile of the League Cup, and a chance to break their bitter hearts again. Or, we get to play the best team in the tournament, and it's always good to beat the best teams on the way to winning a trophy.

It would be great if we win the League Cup. Qualifying for a European competition in February means it takes some pressure off in the league, even though we'd ideally be aiming for a higher competition than the UEFA Cup, and the pressure will then be off Klopp to get his first trophy. It would allow us to play with slightly less pressure all round, and who knows where that would lead.

I'd still rather qualify for the CL by winning  the UEFA Cup rather than through the league, unless of course we were to manage to qualify by finishing first in the league.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 04, 2015, 04:34:10 AM
(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/67/590x/Liverpool-624015.jpg)

genuinely over the moon.

our lads are loving their football again.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 04, 2015, 01:37:33 PM
(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/67/590x/Liverpool-624015.jpg)

genuinely over the moon.

our lads are loving their football again.

It works wonders when your manager believes in you and wants you to succeed, rather than reluctantly selecting you simply because you weren't his choice or idea.

None of the players were Klopp's choice yet he's getting more out of them than the manager who had chosen them.

If Rodgers is sensible and doesn't allow his ego to control his thinking, then he will look at Klopp's approach to the handling of his (Rodgers') players, and learn lessons.

Sport, as in life, has a huge psychological aspect to it, and when dealing with players, remembering they're human and factoring in human nature, is always a good idea, I'd have thought. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 04, 2015, 08:18:41 PM
It works wonders when your manager believes in you and wants you to succeed, rather than reluctantly selecting you simply because you weren't his choice or idea.

None of the players were Klopp's choice yet he's getting more out of them than the manager who had chosen them.

If Rodgers is sensible and doesn't allow his ego to control his thinking, then he will look at Klopp's approach to the handling of his (Rodgers') players, and learn lessons.

Sport, as in life, has a huge psychological aspect to it, and when dealing with players, remembering they're human and factoring in human nature, is always a good idea, I'd have thought.

absolutely, Tes.

Rodgers, and his ilk, always come in and have some long term (usually 3 to 5 year) plan to boast about.  Meanwhile, they can excuse poor results, as work in progress.  Meanwhile, the boss is getting super rich, on a golden dawn that never arrives.

Klopp comes in, and immediately takes, what I think is a weak Liverpool squad (one of the weakest in my lifetime), and excels with it.

Just imagine when he gets a few of his own players in, what we can do.

I genuinely think we have unearthed a new Alex Ferguson.    If our yankee owners and their know-it-all administrators (edwards, etc) can keep their noses out of it, and give him th etime and money he needs, I think we could be seeing the start of a very special period in our history.  And Jurgen is only 48!   

Like I said many times, we would only start to win leagues again when Captain Marvel was gone.

See, the sky has not fallen down after he left us.   Indeed, the sky looks far more golden down, with a true team cohesiveness look to it. 

If we could play all our remaining league fixtures away from home, I think we would win the league at a canter.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on December 06, 2015, 09:21:27 AM
Excellent day yesterday with Citeh and Chelski losing and manure and spurs drawing! The hunt is on for 4th and so i don't care if its a 1-0 win to us against Newcastle...3 points are essential to make those above nervous...
City were dire, Chelsea must be out of the hunt now for top 4. Leicester continue to surprise (as do watford), manure will get more and more nervous, spurs are playing well and arsenal will always drop points.
Game on!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 06, 2015, 02:17:10 PM

Like I said many times, we would only start to win leagues again when Captain Marvel was gone.

Indeed, the sky looks far more golden down, with a true team cohesiveness look to it. 


It's a point we've made so many times that a unit of 11 excels over 10 and a great individual.

Whilst Gerrard produced many great individual performances that then inspired his team mates to up their levels, that model required him to do it every game.
Also, it threw an inhibiting shadow over the squad, and to varying degrees over individual players.

We now seem to have a group of players that all feel equals. There's no huge star or 'name' to inhibit in any way, and they all look as though they now have self belief in themselves and in each other. Folk aren't scared to try things because of the reaction, to it failing, from a certain quarter.
Failure when trying something is met collectively with the same appreciation as trying and succeeding.
Everyone is supportive of each other trying things, and as everyone is both being supportive and receiving support, no-one feels the need to play within themselves.

There's no single strong character to look to, so instead everyone is seeing it's the 'collective character' that is going to turn something around, and everyone is feeling comfortable and motivated in making their maximum contribution towards that collective character.

Gerrard was a strong character and a great player, but those things sometimes work for a team, and other times against the team - a strength can sometimes also be a weakness, and it depends on the circumstances as to which it proves to be any time. I'd have loved Gerrard to have two qualities that he lacked - footballing discipline and more faith in lesser mortals. He'd have been a hell of a player with those two additions.

And all of the above is down to mentality and psychology, and the far reaching effects it has. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2015, 04:51:35 PM
It's a point we've made so many times that a unit of 11 excels over 10 and a great individual.

We now seem to have a group of players that all feel equals. There's no huge star or 'name' to inhibit in any way, and they all look as though they now have self belief in themselves and in each other. Folk aren't scared to try things because of the reaction, to it failing, from a certain quarter.
Failure when trying something is met collectively with the same appreciation as trying and succeeding.

There's no single strong character to look to, so instead everyone is seeing it's the 'collective character'

absolutely, Tes.

Gerrard was to Liverpool, what Bryan Robson was to Man Utd.

And I can never figure why top managers, and players, cannot see that.

Or maybe they do, but choose to instead go with the sheep and spout tripe.

It's a team game.  And unless one has a truly world class talent - like a Suarez or a Maradona, then it has to always be a team game.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2015, 04:51:55 PM
half-time

Newcastle 0 Liverpool 0

I am starting to suspect that Benteke may not easily fit into our systems.

Indeed, to date, I am not even sure he is up to the level we need.  One particularly bad miss in the first half.

I think we will see Sturridge on early in the second half.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2015, 05:14:35 PM
And I never care for our midfield, when Joe Allen is in it.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 06, 2015, 06:01:44 PM
If this wasn't a Rodgersesque performance!!! You really could tell after 10 minutes this wasn't gonna end well, couldn't you? The one good thing about this embarrassing defeat it will cool any absurd talk of a title win. Additionally I hope it will learn our players to keep it fukcing shut instead of talking about belief and such nonsensical stuff.

It is clear the road is long and will harbour quite a few bumps. I will most likely take this and the better part of next season to shape a side that will not allow itself to sink this deep.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 06, 2015, 06:17:05 PM
Reality check. Title challenges this season? Skrtel turning into Baresi? Benteke of any use without supply? Should a £32.5M be able to create something out of nothing or at least be able to produce something himself without the need to be constantly fed?

Good runs and bad runs all must end. It's a shame that the end of both happened today.

Hopefully now the players' feet have found themselves well and truly planted on the ground, and they learn to keep them there. We still don't have collective consistency, but it's early in Klopp's reign to reasonably expect it.

Heads down, work harder and go again. This weekend's two relative results should tell the players that Stoke wasn't the easiest tie we could have had, so if they want a trip to Wembley, they now know the size of the task.

Reality checks happen for a reason and hopefully now it's obvious that as we have done since game one of Klopp's time here, that there is strengthening needed in January if possible.

In the bigger picture, this result could prove to be a beneficial one.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 06, 2015, 06:26:19 PM
I am starting to suspect that Benteke may not easily fit into our systems.

Indeed, to date, I am not even sure he is up to the level we need.  One particularly bad miss in the first half.


That was always the instinctive feeling when we were linked with him, and the question we've been asking since the first link surfaced.

When looking at players you've got to factor in the shape of hole they occupy in their current team, and the shape of hole you require them to fit in your team. Also, compare and contrast styles of play, as that's very relevant to everything.

We've bought a lot of players that either don't seem to have a ready made position for them, a need for more of that sort of player, or players that whilst they are good in their current team, different things will be asked of them if they came to us. We've collected respectively good players without constructing a team or squad of shape, balance or blend.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on December 06, 2015, 06:27:35 PM
Didnt like the line up at the start...and as i said i didnt think it was going to be a cake walk...some of my fellow supporters were talking about 10-0 and we set out our stall like we just needed to turn up and win..
Big lesson for Klopp...Allen and Benteke were awful..
Henderson, Sturridge and Lallana were needed...
No easy games in this league and each need to be taken seriously...
Fermino obviously can't play without Coutinho...
Ibe was our best player today...and was taken off?
Fair play to Newcastle. They wanted it more.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 06, 2015, 06:28:55 PM
And I never care for our midfield, when Joe Allen is in it.

Exactly. Just what sort of midfielder is he? What is it he does so well that it's crucial it's always included?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 06, 2015, 06:31:08 PM
Ings is looking like a bigger miss and more a Klopp type player the longer he's out and the more Benteke plays - which is madness.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 06, 2015, 06:39:34 PM
I won't have a go at Klopp for the starting line-up. He has this holy principle of never playing players who aren't 100 % fit. Hence he didn't deem Sturridge able to play twice in 4 days. Origi I don't understand. The lad really looked good when he came on. In the long run, however, that principle will do wonder for us but at this Point it will leave us with 2nd string line-ups like today (Henderson, Sturridge, Sakho and Coutinho not starting).

Development takes time and we may see a couple of disappointing results in the coming games. I expect us to finish 6th again. My hope for this season is we can hit a good run in the EL this season.

Other than that players like Milner, Allen, Ibe and Benteke aren't good enough to take us above 6th.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 06, 2015, 06:40:15 PM
Ings is looking like a bigger miss and more a Klopp type player the longer he's out and the more Benteke plays - which is madness.

He he, I was thinking exactly the same.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on December 06, 2015, 06:53:04 PM
Interesting quote from Football 365...

'Benteke has now started 10 games in all competitions this season, with Liverpool scoring just eight goals in those games, and Benteke finding the net twice in that timeframe. In the 12 games Benteke has not started, Liverpool have scored 24 goals. Benteke is scoring at a rate of a goal every 202 minutes in all competitions this season; Sturridge’s record is a goal every 87.25 minutes.'

Benteke was very weak as was Firmino.
Sorry Martin, but i still think the lineup was weak ass...we lost it in midfield and without Can we should have played a 4 in midfield system...all three midfielders were making mistakes and doing bugger all in supplying up front...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 06, 2015, 07:27:08 PM
Yes, the line up was weak Bart mate, I agree completely. Klopp, however, will never start a player who isn't 100 % fit. That's why we'll see weak line ups like this one many times this season. But when he actually get a chance to shape the squad with players of his chosing this principle will have a very positive effect on the squad-development if you Catch my drift?

This, I believe, will make us look inconsistent in the short term. It will only be imaginary though as for every player that come in and settles, the ocassions we'll be forced to endure performances like the one we just witnessed will be fewer and more far between. -18 is the year we'll win no. 19.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on December 06, 2015, 07:27:48 PM
Classic case of players believing their own hype.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on December 06, 2015, 07:31:32 PM
Klopp, however, will never start a player who isn't 100 % fit. That's why we'll see weak line ups like this one many times this season. But when he actually get a chance to shape the squad with players of his chosing this principle will have a very positive effect on the squad-development if you Catch my drift?


Gotcha...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on December 06, 2015, 07:32:22 PM
These away performances were never sustainable though and Newcy were going to make it a dogs of war game. It would have finished 0-0 had Skrtel not deflected that goal.

However we must move on from this game and start performing at Anfield.

Benteke plays better when he's beside another striker and not as a lone man. He was too isolated. I still say he'll have a good career here for us.

We do need to buy another CM/DM though.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2015, 07:43:07 PM
Exactly. Just what sort of midfielder is Allen? What is it he does so well that it's crucial it's always included?

precisely.

Allen is not a playmaker, he is not a sweeper, and he cannot score goals.

He just wouldn't play in my teams.  I would have someone from the reserve team in, instead.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2015, 07:47:20 PM
That was always the instinctive feeling when we were linked with him, and the question we've been asking since the first link surfaced.

When looking at players you've got to factor in the shape of hole they occupy in their current team, and the shape of hole you require them to fit in your team. Also, compare and contrast styles of play, as that's very relevant to everything.

We've bought a lot of players that either don't seem to have a ready made position for them, a need for more of that sort of player, or players that whilst they are good in their current team, different things will be asked of them if they came to us. We've collected respectively good players without constructing a team or squad of shape, balance or blend.

yes, Benteke looks ill at ease in our systems.   As you say, we need to buy players that precisely fill a hole/need.

maybe Klopp will hit upon a system, maybe one he can deploy at Anfield, which will suit the lad.

maybe as Edward says, he will perform better in a 4-4-2 (i.e. when he has a second forward alongside him).   Which would be the type of system I would expect at Anfield.....an aggressive one.

If Benteke scores that sitter in the first 20 minutes, we could have went on and scored a lot more.

Too many of our lads just do not know where the goal is at - benteke, milner, allen, lallahana, etc.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2015, 07:52:53 PM
Interesting quote from Football 365...

'Benteke has now started 10 games in all competitions this season, with Liverpool scoring just eight goals in those games, and Benteke finding the net twice in that timeframe. In the 12 games Benteke has not started, Liverpool have scored 24 goals. Benteke is scoring at a rate of a goal every 202 minutes in all competitions this season; Sturridge’s record is a goal every 87.25 minutes.'

Benteke was very weak as was Firmino.
Sorry Martin, but i still think the lineup was weak ass...we lost it in midfield and without Can we should have played a 4 in midfield system...all three midfielders were making mistakes and doing bugger all in supplying up front...

agreed, Bart.

We had a woeful day in the middle......I was fed up cussing at the screen, every time we misplaced a simple ball. 

Benteke was useless today.  Allen was useless.  Milner ran a lot, but will rarely ever score.  Lallahana ditto.   

With no Countinho and Henderson, I knew we would have issues.  But I still expected us to win.

Firminio and his Brazilian buddy Countinho, brings so much to our team.  Their understanding opens up defences.  Badly missed that today.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2015, 07:57:13 PM
These away performances were never sustainable though and Newcy were going to make it a dogs of war game. It would have finished 0-0 had Skrtel not deflected that goal.

However we must move on from this game and start performing at Anfield.

Benteke plays better when he's beside another striker and not as a lone man. He was too isolated. I still say he'll have a good career here for us.

I was optimistic like you, re Benteke's Anfield career, Edward.

But to be honest, after seeing him under Klopp, I am concerned about his lack of touch.   His first touch is poor  IMHO. 

Yes, in those games where we need to make a ball stick, he can do a job maybe.  But in Klopp's present systems, Benteke looks an ill-fit.

I had saw reports from Villa folk (and a retired premiership keeper), about his poor finishing ability.   And I am starting to appreciate what they were saying now. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 07, 2015, 12:09:54 AM
I was optimistic like you, re Benteke's Anfield career, Edward.

But to be honest, after seeing him under Klopp, I am concerned about his lack of touch.   His first touch is poor  IMHO. 

Yes, in those games where we need to make a ball stick, he can do a job maybe.  But in Klopp's present systems, Benteke looks an ill-fit.

I had saw reports from Villa folk (and a retired premiership keeper), about his poor finishing ability.   And I am starting to appreciate what they were saying now.

He's also not the type of player that Firmino will flourish playing off. Coutinho and Firmino make a good partnership, but if we had a more mobile striker, with a better touch and the ability to be part of a one touch passing movement, playing ahead of Firmino, he'd be able to create more and probably get played in in return also.
Benteke requires chances to be created for him and crosses to be thrown into the box for him to attack, however, that means the move can break down and possession be squandered if he doesn't get on the end, whereas being slipped in or playing Firmino in gives a greater chance of possession swopping hands only because the opposition are taking the ball out of the net.
He's also too inconsistent, and blows hot and cold.

 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 07, 2015, 10:03:46 AM
He's also not the type of player that Firmino will flourish playing off. Coutinho and Firmino make a good partnership, but if we had a more mobile striker, with a better touch and the ability to be part of a one touch passing movement, playing ahead of Firmino, he'd be able to create more and probably get played in in return also.
Benteke requires chances to be created for him and crosses to be thrown into the box for him to attack, however, that means the move can break down and possession be squandered if he doesn't get on the end, whereas being slipped in or playing Firmino in gives a greater chance of possession swopping hands only because the opposition are taking the ball out of the net.
He's also too inconsistent, and blows hot and cold.

agreed, on all fronts.   Hot and cold, and balls needs to be chucked in for him to have a chance....not Klopp's style.

unless some new system is made with him in mind, I don't see Klopp being able to use the lad.

Benteke is clearly not a Thierry Henry, or a Didier Drogba.      He is - at least presently - unable to boss the line and dictate things.

And with Sturridge constantly bringing in a sick note, I am pretty confident that we will be in the market for a top striker, come the summer. 

As you say, the two Brazilian lads, despite it being so early, are developing a wonderful partnership/understanding.

Whoever we bring in, has to easily gel with that duo.   

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 10, 2015, 08:07:50 PM
We're hitting bad form at the worst possible time. I can see us go witout a win for the reminder of the year. Some will say this was a somewhat meaningless game but I don't think it is an on/off-switch. The indifferent, sloppy and erratic nature of our performance was really depressing to see. You'd be forgiven for thinking Rodger's has been recalled into some overarching role dictating our play.

This was a pretty meaningful game. It was a chance to show ourselves Newcy was a one off. By the look of it, Newcy was the first of many similar performances. I can accept Rossiter and Branagan struggling coming on late in the game, but to see Can, Lallana, Milner, Henderson and not least Fimino performing so poorly suggest to me we're in big trouble here. You really could tell from the look of Klopp's face he didn't like what he saw one bit. I want us to want to win games, every game, go for it. No game more important than the other.

I'm pretty sure the Baggies will get at least a draw on Sunday.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 11, 2015, 07:48:02 PM
The pitch wasn't the best apparently, but as Martin says, the sloppy approach is a worry.

We need to get back to slick accurate passing, something that really shouldn't be beyond the ability of professional footballers.

Obviously a win is of paramount importance, but for once, I'd say the performance really mattered too.

We have to arrest the disjointed performances and start getting back to crisp passing. We shouldn't need Coutinho in the team for that to happen.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 12, 2015, 12:14:42 AM
yes, performances have tailed off the past couple of games.

we don't have enough quality in depth, and that amount of energy (for the football style that Klopp demands) was never possible for long, in England.

Also, Klopp is used to a month off in the winter, in Germany.   Players can rest up, and injuries curtailed and mended.  Not in England, where games will now come at him thick and fast, over the next few weeks.

But Henderson back is a great thing.   Countinho and Firmonio are showing signs of greatness.  Can is looking like a very fine player (keep him away from our penalty box though).

All in all, many many positives.  Just a pity we hadn't got Klopp in during the summer.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on December 12, 2015, 05:35:28 PM
Interesting little stat for the newcastle game...we gave the ball away 124 times...which is the highest misplaced passes of any premier team in the last 5 years.
The midfield was dire that day, with Allen and Milner major culprits.
There's no point getting all doom and gloom because of the Newcastle and Sion results. Klopp has worked wonders already but can only so much with the players at hand. Allen is no Can and Milner blows hot and cold. Benteke also looks out of sorts.
I would be amazed if we see those 3 used in midfield again.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 13, 2015, 01:44:45 AM
Interesting little stat for the newcastle game...we gave the ball away 124 times...which is the highest misplaced passes of any premier team in the last 5 years.
The midfield was dire that day, with Allen and Milner major culprits.
There's no point getting all doom and gloom because of the Newcastle and Sion results. Klopp has worked wonders already but can only so much with the players at hand. Allen is no Can and Milner blows hot and cold. Benteke also looks out of sorts.
I would be amazed if we see those 3 used in midfield again.

It's not the results Bart mate, that worries me.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 13, 2015, 05:12:28 PM
It's not the results Bart mate, that worries me.

Exactly. The performances in the last two games were careless, sloppy and lacking dynamism or energy.

You don't always get the result your performance deserves (either way), but they're the best indicator of likely results, and a poor performance tends to yield a poor result more than any other factor.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 13, 2015, 05:22:36 PM
Mignolet's boobed again.

It's odd how a player who is so obviously poor at catching all but the easiest and tamest of balls, ends up playing a position that requires you to catch.

He's also not the bravest either. He's in a position where he can use his hands and he can clatter anyone around him in his path to the ball without fear of giving away a foul. He really needs to use those two advantages to the fullest.

I know Butland's English flavour of the month, but that ship's sailed. Stoke had a far better keeper than we had at the time, in Begovic, yet were still able to persuade Butland to sign, despite him having a tougher path to the first team no1 position than he'd have had at Liverpool. I can't remember if we went for him or not.

We'd get a far better keeper from abroad for the money we'd have to pay out for Butland, but gk surely has to be rapidly moving up the list of priorities for Klopp.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 13, 2015, 06:08:08 PM
only caught the second half - so I have yet to see the Mignolet boob.

we have so many players who are not good enough.

midfield dire.....llahana and milner would never be in my team (let's not bring up allen). 

we should be bossing games at anfield, with a top midfield.   I think I have never seen a worse red midfield in my lifetime.....oh for a case, a mcdermott, a molby, a souness, a beardsley, etc.

And Benteke is not good enough.....technically not near close to the required.   And I would also expect him to be bossing the area with his weight and size.

we need to be playing fast technical football......sadly, we do not have the players to play that game.

the positive, is the way Klopp got the crowd going, and pulled the players all down to the Kop at the end.....we are all in this together.     

I thought WBA did a job, and did it well....dangerous movement and set pieces.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 13, 2015, 06:37:32 PM
only caught the second half - so I have yet to see the Mignolet boob.

we have so many players who are not good enough.

midfield dire.....llahana and milner would never be in my team (let's not bring up allen). 

we should be bossing games at anfield, with a top midfield.   I think I have never seen a worse red midfield in my lifetime.....oh for a case, a mcdermott, a molby, a souness, a beardsley, etc.

And Benteke is not good enough.....technically not near close to the required.   And I would also expect him to be bossing the area with his weight and size.

we need to be playing fast technical football......sadly, we do not have the players to play that game.

the positive, is the way Klopp got the crowd going, and pulled the players all down to the Kop at the end.....we are all in this together.     

I thought WBA did a job, and did it well....dangerous movement and set pieces.

Benteke can't contribute to the way we play, and we don't play the way that would allow Benteke to thrive.

I wonder who's idea it was to even look at Benteke in the Summer.

I'm not saying he's a bad player, but technically he's average and, a bit like Heskey, he doesn't take advantage of the physical gifts he's been given. I've mentioned it before, and every time I see him he does nothing to change my mind (though I'm dying for him to do so) that he doesn't have the right mentality, either to push himself hard enough to be a top player or to realise and cope with the level of performance expected and required from a player at a club of our size.

Everton have the better big Belgian forward.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 13, 2015, 06:40:40 PM
Benteke can't contribute to the way we play, and we don't play the way that would allow Benteke to thrive.

I wonder who's idea it was to even look at Benteke in the Summer.

I'm not saying he's a bad player, but technically he's average and, a bit like Heskey, he doesn't take advantage of the physical gifts he's been given. I've mentioned it before, and every time I see him he does nothing to change my mind (though I'm dying for him to do so) that he doesn't have the right mentality, either to push himself hard enough to be a top player or to realise and cope with the level of performance expected and required from a player at a club of our size.

Everton have the better big Belgian forward.

totally agree.

like Heskey, not the right mental approach.....technically, I suspect Emile might be slightly better than Benteke!

those recruitment staff at Anfield who brought in Benteke, Llahana, Allen and Milner, need to be redeployed to other duties.....maybe cutting the grass, instead of smoking it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 13, 2015, 07:04:05 PM
I just hope Arsenal, Chelsea and City flop so that England lose a spot in the CL, Then, finally, we might get a discussion around destructive and primitive managers like Tony Pulis. I hate his football and everything he stands for. That they have taken so many Points from teams they should really be trashed by says a lot how poor this version of the PL really is.

Mignolet and Lallana cost us Points. Too many half-good players in our team to challenge for anything this season.

Milner - work hard and, ah well...
Can - good for parts of the game just seem unable to perform well over 90 minutes.
Lallana - runs and work hard but wouldn't play regurarly for any of the top teams and theres a reason. Cost us 3 points after missing out on that open chance.
Benteke - will come good. He's low on confidence. He's better than this and in time it will show.

I predicted Before the game we'd get a point tops and I was right. It's obvious we're in poor form and I really cannot see us win a game until mid-january when 4th will be well and truly gone. It is amazing what a poor squad Rodgers built. Arguably the weakest I've seen in my 36 years of watching us play.

Quite confident Watford will give us a good hiding next Sunday. The only good thing about hitting bad form is Klopp will be under no illussions what players need to leave.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 13, 2015, 08:15:52 PM
I just hope Arsenal, Chelsea and City flop so that England lose a spot in the CL, Then, finally, we might get a discussion around destructive and primitive managers like Tony Pulis. I hate his football and everything he stands for. That they have taken so many Points from teams they should really be trashed by says a lot how poor this version of the PL really is.

As a football fan, I too dislike negative football, but I can appreciate that managers like Pulis are at clubs that can't afford enough players to make a team that plays, or at least tries to play positive football.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin, I understand that he needs to make the most of his playing resources and play a way that means he gets the best from those resources and a way that makes sure his team don't get mullered every week trying to go 'toe to toe' playing 'good' football. That he does, and he does it very well.

A lot of the so-called 'lesser' teams are playing a less 'all-out' defensive style and a more counter attacking style this season, utilising the pace they've built within their squads.
Whether purists like it or not, set pieces are part of the game, and a way to get a goal. It's daft to ignore that opportunity or be sniffy about a goal scored from a set piece.

Ultimately, if the bigger teams kept possession better and made more of their possession, including set pieces, they'd be out of sight and the 'smaller' opposition teams would always only be playing for a consolation goal.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 13, 2015, 08:24:24 PM

Milner - work hard and, ah well...
Can - good for parts of the game just seem unable to perform well over 90 minutes.
Lallana - runs and work hard but wouldn't play regurarly for any of the top teams and theres a reason. Cost us 3 points after missing out on that open chance.
Benteke - will come good. He's low on confidence. He's better than this and in time it will show.


And one way or the other they've all cost us a fortune.

Poor player selection and dire negotiating on the financial side has seen us where we are.

Ian Ayre is a part of both processes.

We will struggle to get rid, though not upgrade on those players and others like them. Whether we can afford to both upgrade and be stuck with the 'upgraded elements' of the squad will ultimately decide how much and how quickly Klopp will be able to change things.

He's going to have to wring maximum effect from every signing he makes and make the absolute most out of the limited changes he will get to make.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on December 14, 2015, 09:28:43 AM
We might as well not have had a goalkeeper yesterday for all the use Mignolet was.
First priority is a goalie, which in turn will make the defence calmer, and that will ripple through the entire team.
Mignolet's time is up.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 14, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
As a football fan, I too dislike negative football, but I can appreciate that managers like Pulis are at clubs that can't afford enough players to make a team that plays, or at least tries to play positive football.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin, I understand that he needs to make the most of his playing resources and play a way that means he gets the best from those resources and a way that makes sure his team don't get mullered every week trying to go 'toe to toe' playing 'good' football. That he does, and he does it very well.

A lot of the so-called 'lesser' teams are playing a less 'all-out' defensive style and a more counter attacking style this season, utilising the pace they've built within their squads.
Whether purists like it or not, set pieces are part of the game, and a way to get a goal. It's daft to ignore that opportunity or be sniffy about a goal scored from a set piece.

Ultimately, if the bigger teams kept possession better and made more of their possession, including set pieces, they'd be out of sight and the 'smaller' opposition teams would always only be playing for a consolation goal.

I agree with a lot of that, but then I look at Bournemouth and their decision to "do it their way" regardless how it all pan out. Pulis been feeding English footy this negative and destructive footy for years on end. It's one thing playing to your resources and I appreciate a more defensively approach emerge from that. It's a totally different thing to time waste from the first to last minute and this is where I hold Pulis in contempt. He likes to speak of the fair game an'all but fail to back it up himself.

In the end though, the blame has to lie with the bigger teams and their inability to break down clubs like WBA. On the other hand, a predictable 2-0 win whenever a bigger team play a lesser ain't the most entertaining stuff either.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 14, 2015, 10:20:10 PM
I always remember under Rafa, the clear feeling that you needed a different approach/style/team when trying to compete in European competitions, than the one that would be competitive in the Premiership.

In Europe, the refs are very strict, you get time to play your intricate technical football.  Opponents stand off, to an extent, and let you play your pretty triangles.

But in England, it is much more in yer face.   It can be aggressive, 100 MPH at times, end to end, no quarter given.   Klopp's Dortmund style - heavy metal football - is the default style for many weaker Premiership teams (like WBA, Palace, Leicester, etc).

Rafa struggled to deal with both scenarios.  He did excel in Europe.  But ( I felt) he never ever got entirely on top of what was needed to win the Premiership title.

On the otherhand, Fergie tended towards the opposite.  Fergie knew exactly what was needed to compete for the Premiership title (winning it every second season); BUT he often came up short in the Champions League.  He had problems mixing the differing styles needed to compete in England, and in Europe.

The bottom line is, that to compete in England, you have to, first of all, earn the right to play your fast technical football.  You have to dominate your opponent.  It has been that way ever since I was a kid. 

Yesterday, we had to stand up, toe to toe, physically with WBA.  We had to compete for every ball, and if we couldn't win every first ball, then at least be the first to second balls. 

We didn't do that.

Klopp will have to adapt his style.   

We need a far stronger midfield.  We need a team that can defend set pieces.  Look tonight at Leicester at home to Chelsea.  Leicester had one corner, Chelsea had eight corners.   And despite all those corners, Leicester did not concede.   We would have struggled with that onslaught.

And yet if the media are to be believed, we want to offer Mignolet a long term contract, before Christmas. 
 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 14, 2015, 10:22:32 PM
BTW   I am absolutely loving Leicester's superb run.

By all accounts, they should have fallen away by now (like West Ham).

But they are still up there (they are first tonight, after beating Chelsea).

It's too much to hope for - but I would absolutely LOVE IT, if they could win the title.

I know, I am in fantasy land.  But the old timer in me, craves the days of old, when small teams could win titles. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 15, 2015, 02:06:54 AM
BTW   I am absolutely loving Leicester's superb run.

By all accounts, they should have fallen away by now (like West Ham).

But they are still up there (they are first tonight, after beating Chelsea).

It's too much to hope for - but I would absolutely LOVE IT, if they could win the title.

I know, I am in fantasy land.  But the old timer in me, craves the days of old, when small teams could win titles.

Raneiri never got the credit he deserved for putting in place the foundations of Mourinho's success in his first stint at Chelsea.

It would make a refreshing change that like in the old days of Division 1, good coaching could achieve success, rather than having one of the biggest bank balances.

It would be the best season since the PL came into being if Leicester could do it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 15, 2015, 02:15:03 AM
We might as well not have had a goalkeeper yesterday for all the use Mignolet was.
First priority is a goalie, which in turn will make the defence calmer, and that will ripple through the entire team.
Mignolet's time is up.

Totally agree. I hope Mignolet getting a new contract is only a ruse to try and maintain his value in the transfer market, though he's doing a good job of sending it through the floor.

Like Skrtel, Mignolet has never been truly convincing.

Looking at the entire spine of the team, there's only Hendo that I would initially keep. The rest of the spine needs upgrading, or making more suited to the way we play.
That's a huge cost right there, and a great deal of difficulty shifting Benteke and Mignolet without making a huge overall loss.

We've got unbelievably poor value from Rodgers' transfer activity, and a lot of expensive, and loss making square pegs.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 17, 2015, 04:01:53 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/25/20/2CA63A4E00000578-3288702-image-a-53_1445803896322.jpg)

1-0
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 17, 2015, 04:04:06 PM
Raneiri never got the credit he deserved for putting in place the foundations of Mourinho's success in his first stint at Chelsea.

It would make a refreshing change that like in the old days of Division 1, good coaching could achieve success, rather than having one of the biggest bank balances.

It would be the best season since the PL came into being if Leicester could do it.

I have to admit, I was not impressed when Leicester brought in Ranieri this summer. 

But maybe the guy is best at a club of lesser expectations, where he can privately work his magic.

Yes, like you say Tes, it would be the best season ever in the PL, if they could hold on, and go on and win it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 17, 2015, 04:08:14 PM
I see Spurs have got permission today, to build a 61,000 seater stadium.

The images of the new thing look awful.  IMHO


(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/17/07/2F739D4500000578-3363515-image-a-23_1450339030082.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/17/07/2F739D5500000578-3363515-image-a-24_1450339034085.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/17/08/2F73B28F00000578-3363515-image-a-34_1450339779739.jpg)

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 17, 2015, 11:43:14 PM
I see Spurs have got permission today, to build a 61,000 seater stadium.

The images of the new thing look awful.  IMHO


(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/17/07/2F739D4500000578-3363515-image-a-23_1450339030082.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/17/07/2F739D5500000578-3363515-image-a-24_1450339034085.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/17/08/2F73B28F00000578-3363515-image-a-34_1450339779739.jpg)

All these bowls are just like peas in a pod, and they will soon start to look dated.

How often would Spurs fill 61,000 seats?

I'm so glad we're upgrading Anfield rather than having our own featureless bowl, even if we don't have the biggest ground in the league, the trade off is worth it.

I'm not sure there's really many clubs in the PL that could fill more than 55k seats every game, and I'd rather have a slightly smaller but full ground, than a capacity in the top 3 in the league that's only three quarters full for most matches.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 19, 2015, 01:42:18 PM
All these bowls are just like peas in a pod, and they will soon start to look dated.

How often would Spurs fill 61,000 seats?

I'm so glad we're upgrading Anfield rather than having our own featureless bowl, even if we don't have the biggest ground in the league, the trade off is worth it.

I'm not sure there's really many clubs in the PL that could fill more than 55k seats every game, and I'd rather have a slightly smaller but full ground, than a capacity in the top 3 in the league that's only three quarters full for most matches.

exactly, Tes.

Grounds that are empty looking, will never have a great atmosphere.

Indeed, I have worried in the past, about our own expansion.   But I guess our people know the demand levels.  It would be nice if they could keep pricing to a fair level, to allow local supporters to be there every week, to create an atmosphere. 

I think around the country, the poorer atmosphere at grounds, is because of ordinary fans being priced out of attending - and also because of all-seater stadia.

As for the new Spurs ground - yes, another same old same old silver spaceship ground.....like 200 built across Europe in the past 15 years.   Even now, when new (in those images), it looks turgid, and without any passion.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 19, 2015, 06:19:49 PM
United beaten, at home, against lowly Norwich.  Boos afterwards.

Everton lose at home, to Leicester.   Leicester five points clear, at least til tomorrow.

Now, if only we could win tomorrow.   Would be a nice weekend.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 02:03:38 PM
15 minutes gone

Watford 2  Liverpool 0

Watford are pressing us, high intensity stuff......giving us a taste of our own medicine.

Heavy metal intense football, is the default, across much of British football.  Welcome to Angleterre, Jurgen Klopp.

PS - Hugh Laurie sure has turned Watford around.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 02:06:42 PM
PS 2 - Sakho has never filled me with any confidence.   An accident always about to happen.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 20, 2015, 02:19:07 PM
Just when you thought you'd seen the worst half of the season, Watford away awaits. This is fukcing Brendan "retarded" Rodgers legacy. The worst squad I've ever seen.

First of all, Henderson is no captain. Hell, he won't even start in Klopp's XI. Why oh why didn't he leave for Fulham???

Firmino, great buy Rodgers.
Lallana, great buy Rodgers.
Bogdan, great buy Rodgers.

We're so poor it's unbelieveable against a Championship side like Watford. Same with Leicester. The PL is slowly losing it's glory. It's hard to argue it's even top-4 in Europe.

The only player with quality in this game is Sakho who people say is an accident waiting to happen. Well, I'd rather take the occasional accident than the pisspoor crap the rest of the team provide.

I hate Rodgers and what he did to this club.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on December 20, 2015, 02:26:47 PM
That was sooooooooooo poor. Firmino absolutely invisible. Coutinho nowhere to be seen.

Klopp made a mistake by not playing a Benteke or Origi from the start as in these games we need a focal point.

Skrtel always has been a liability. Bogdan well those things happen to GK's now and again he's our No.2 so accept it and move on.

Henderson has been good in terms of attempting to change the play. Those 4 or 5 cross field passes have exposed watford so we need more of that. However the defence has let us down and Firmino and Coutinho have been invisible.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on December 20, 2015, 02:28:41 PM
You can't blame Rodgers for how poorly they've played today. We've seen them play well under Klopp, so we know they can do it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 02:34:56 PM
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/06158e5120207f8b4c038887b8d14ebaf8911b0d/0_0_2693_1956/master/2693.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=f8ed552021f264e1a84540612178d0a4)

me no happy.

when me no happy, call in da luftwaffe.

mix it up with these watford guys....get physical, tell Benteke and Origo to step up to the mark.

need a quicker game, in their face stuff.

we have to win the physical battle, before our flair players, like countinho and firmino can get a chance to play.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 02:51:23 PM
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/20f06e348a0bc0e7f49e2c8cb9e339e1d6da78d4/225_98_3912_2348/master/3912.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=e514d968e4fbadc99530da3919e1e73d)

Grounded again.   Should have gone to the Bobby Moore School of Defending.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 02:56:01 PM
Klopp made a mistake by not playing a Benteke or Origi from the start as in these games we need a focal point.

yes, I think we need a focal point in these types of in yer face, physical games, against weaker opposition.

Having said that, Benteke needs a good kick up the posterior, to waken him up.  He has all that power, but not the aggression (or touch).

I agree with Martin (and have been saying it for ages) our squad is exceptionally poor.  Heck, half of our main team is not good enough.   

I would pack midfield for these types of games......we have to win that battle first of all, before we can play our game.    We are getting bossed in the middle of the park every time, against these types of teams.

the problem however is, our midfield is dire....weakest I have ever seen in 40 plus years. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 02:58:03 PM
63 mins: Oh my! Sakho is having One Of Those Days. A ball is played into Ighalo, the Liverpool defender slips and those limbs flail absolutely everywhere. Ighalo is free on goal, it looks like it might be game over but Bogdan actually stands up pretty well and makes a fine save.

from the Guardian, live feed
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 02:59:05 PM
68 mins: Sakho’s bad day continues. Deeney mugs him on the right, but his low cross is blocked at the near post. Oh my.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 03:02:48 PM
Benteke and Ibe coming on.

but why has it taken 74 mins to make this change.

we are two nil down, at Watford.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 20, 2015, 03:05:54 PM
68 mins: Sakho’s bad day continues. Deeney mugs him on the right, but his low cross is blocked at the near post. Oh my.

Yeah, because that pathetic joke for a captain Henderson is having such a brilliant day alongside Lucas, Lallana, Coutinho and Firminho.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 03:07:47 PM
I have to say, that our crosses, and corners, are the stuff of amateurs.

something you'd see down the Sunday Pub League.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 03:13:00 PM
I just don't see the necessary determination, or work-rate, needed (for these types of games).

We need determination - players prepared to scrap and fight for the ball. 

Too many lightweight, whatever, I can't really be that ar.sed, attitudes. 
 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 03:15:25 PM
3-0

fight, determination from the men in yellow.

and they can cross a good ball (unlike our plonkers).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 20, 2015, 03:17:30 PM
I have to say, that our crosses, and corners, are the stuff of amateurs.

something you'd see down the Sunday Pub League.

Well is there anything to our game that isn't Sunday Pub League level? This is by far the worst I've ever seen from a Liverpool side. It is a testament to the poor quality of the PL crap sides like Watford and Leicester enjoy such suceess. Thanks fornicating Brendan Rodgers for the brilliant squad you assembled.

Looks like I was right we're not gonna win this side of the New year. Leicester will win like 4-1 next weekend and if we're lucky we might salvage a point against Sunderland.

Sell the follwoing players over the next 3 windows:

Henderson
Lucas
Lallana
Coutinho (he's only good like 7-8 gams/season anyway)
Firminho
Benteke
Skrtel

It's not fukcing OK to embarrass us like this. Extremly humiliating. Totally unacceptable attitude from the players.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 03:18:05 PM
Jurgen needs to re-assess his early determination that we had a top squad that didn't need much tweaking.

We have a dire squad, and at least one-third, maybe a half, of the main team, needs to be replaced.

If you look down the spine of our team - can you ever remember a spine that is this woefully poor.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 03:24:05 PM
you have to say, well played Watford.   Fully deserved.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 20, 2015, 03:28:10 PM
Jurgen needs to re-assess his early determination that we had a top squad that didn't need much tweaking.

We have a dire squad, and at least one-third, maybe a half, of the main team, needs to be replaced.

If you look down the spine of our team - can you ever remember a spine that is this woefully poor.

No I can't. Simply because there has never been such a poor spine. Is there one at all?

Considering taking a break. It's not worth the pain watching us being outplayed by crap teams. Unbelievable how poor the PL is this season.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 03:33:25 PM
No I can't. Simply because there has never been such a poor spine. Is there one at all?

Considering taking a break. It's not worth the pain watching us being outplayed by crap teams. Unbelievable how poor the PL is this season.

I can understand your thinking, Martin.

Jurgen doesn't have the midfielders he needs......nor does he have the strikers we need.

I said it when he came in, he has a massive rebuilding job on his hands.

but on the positive side of things - against the top teams, especially away from home, we are bossing games.    It is these lower sides, where we come unstuck.   Again, I hark back to our midfield.Against these weaker sides, we have to fight, we have to have determination.....and that is where our woefully weak midfield lets us down badly.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on December 20, 2015, 04:45:13 PM
We are a work in progress - we have issues - big issues.

Sadly, these things take time - realistically I wouldn't expect much of an improvement this season. I'd expect that we'll have brought a few in and let a few go come next summer. I'll expect that pre-season and the aims of the new manager would come into effect and over time he'd get us playing as he wants us to play with some of the personnel to do that job.

It's been clear that we've got issues. It's been clear that we need to fix those issues and it's clear there is a load of work to be done. This is clear to everyone.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2015, 05:30:55 PM
We are a work in progress - we have issues - big issues.

Sadly, these things take time - realistically I wouldn't expect much of an improvement this season.

It's been clear that we've got issues. It's been clear that we need to fix those issues and it's clear there is a load of work to be done. This is clear to everyone.

hopefully it's now clear to Jurgen.

But I take a positive from Jurgen's efforts to date.  In the big games against top clubs, he has out-thought and out-played top opponents (City and Chelsea) away from home.

Sooooo, when he has the proper time to assess the requirements for playing other opposition, and has made much needed personnel changes in January, and the summer, I think we will make further steps.

But the weakness of our team/squad is very scary.  I have never seen such poor personnel at the club in my lifetime.  And I said that during the summer too. 

I was aghast at the appointment of Rodgers, and his amateur management team/scouts.  And now, you can see the results of rank amateurs running the club.  A team/squad full of bog standard players.

This summer, our recruitment team/scouts will be under immense pressure to get it right, re recruitment.  If they don't, we are in Spurs/Newcastle/Villa territory.  Our era of competing at the top, over.

But let's look forward to the League Cup, and Europa Cup....and try and win some silverware this season.  That would help refocus us, and put a much-needed smile on our faces.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 20, 2015, 05:59:28 PM
We are a work in progress - we have issues - big issues.

Sadly, these things take time - realistically I wouldn't expect much of an improvement this season. I'd expect that we'll have brought a few in and let a few go come next summer. I'll expect that pre-season and the aims of the new manager would come into effect and over time he'd get us playing as he wants us to play with some of the personnel to do that job.

It's been clear that we've got issues. It's been clear that we need to fix those issues and it's clear there is a load of work to be done. This is clear to everyone.

Agreed.

It takes far less time to break something than fix it. Rodgers had three seasons + of dismantling and demolishing, Klopps' not had three months.

We spent a lot of money under Rodgers but bought very little in terms of true quality with it, but the money spent can be distorting or distracting sometimes.

We can't expect the players to know that they're below expectation when they've had three years of the manager spouting superlatives about them in every post match interview.
We think that must surely just be to support the players in public, but behind closed doors things will be different - now we're seeing they weren't.

Klopp has a lot to undo. It will take time and we'll be frustrated as Hell along the way.

The most worst thing is when players seem to play harder for their club's shirt than Liverpool players, vastly better paid aswell than their contemporaries at the other clubs, seem able to muster for our shirt.
You can forgive a lack of natural skill, but hard work, effort etc should be there regardless.

The problem we've brought on ourselves over the years is that we've overpaid constantly for players, then overpaid them and it seems a qasi comfort zone has been created and a false impression of their talent and quality bestowed on the players.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 20, 2015, 06:34:22 PM
you have to say, well played Watford.   Fully deserved.

Exactly. It's a shame our players can't be as motivated for the shirt as Watford's were. Quique Sánchez Flores has got them playing very effective football for the players he has at his disposal. Pragmatism over idealism.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on December 20, 2015, 06:56:31 PM
We have to stop playing a 3 in midfield formation against 'lower' (lol) clubs...we need to fill midfield with at least 4 if not 5...
we had no threat today and to be frank i was far more enjoying Watfords honesty and simplicity...it wasnt rocket science but what they did worked...
Football isn't complicated and it isn't rocket science...watford play to their strengths which is why they are 4 points above us...
Jurgen has adopted a bunch of lightweight players who should not be in the same team together...they are luxuries...and one or two can be afforded but not 6 or so...
moreno needs to learn to cross better, thought clyne did ok, sakho slipped cos it was pissing down and skrtel is a 30 year old who got overtaken by a player much younger than him (he should have pulled him down)
Can needs back up, lucas shouldn't even be in the position of trying to create, henderson will pop up occasionally but never be the midfield fulcrum that we need...
lallana scored 18 goals in the season before he came to us, he had no fear...now he wants an extra touch and so will never be the same player...
firmino can only play well with coutinho....a lightweight luxury and irrelevant already...
If we can sell coutinho to barca for 40 plus then all well and good...he plays occasionally but is never consistent...no offence to the man,,,but smiling after missing a sitter shows no hunger at all...

All is not lost, we need to control the game, midfield essential, IBE i would say is essential,...why it took until the 74th minute to change things around was tbh a little worrying...play 4/5 there, work tirelessly and protect the back 4 and we'll be ok...

in January i think we need to buy some experience and add it to the squad...lads who have seen it all and won't panic...then in the summer sack off the lighweights and buy some serious additions...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on December 20, 2015, 07:07:44 PM
The most worst thing is when players seem to play harder for their club's shirt than Liverpool players, vastly better paid aswell than their contemporaries at the other clubs, seem able to muster for our shirt.
You can forgive a lack of natural skill, but hard work, effort etc should be there regardless.

The problem we've brought on ourselves over the years is that we've overpaid constantly for players, then overpaid them and it seems a qasi comfort zone has been created and a false impression of their talent and quality bestowed on the players.

Absolutely. Overpaid and full of delusions of grandeur. They seem to think we make this MEGA amount of money and we don't have to do anymore. To extremes lead to the player revolts of Chelsea and Manure...
New contracts need to include a lack of performance award...a couple of games is allowed during the season, but if players continuously under perform then they should lose their wages...then there would be hunger and a want to perform.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on December 20, 2015, 07:13:28 PM
No I can't. Simply because there has never been such a poor spine. Is there one at all?

We are spineless mate. No goalie, no real decent half, no midfield general and no one to lead the line.

Bodgers sacked off some of them, age caught up with one of them and our lack of ambition in settling for said manager meant that out jewel in the crown wanted to fulfill their ambitions because we never could.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 20, 2015, 07:53:59 PM
Just read an excellent couple of lines that perfectly sums up FSG's transfer policy. I'm not laying all the blame on the last manager, as this policy has been in place since the owners arrived:

"The moneyball strategy has been a farce.  Instead of buying gems at knock down prices - Liverpool have spent sizeable amounts on sub-standard footballers with little fight."
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 20, 2015, 08:28:12 PM
We are spineless mate. No goalie, no real decent half, no midfield general and no one to lead the line.

Bodgers sacked off some of them, age caught up with one of them and our lack of ambition in settling for said manager meant that out jewel in the crown wanted to fulfill their ambitions because we never could.

Spot on. The truth doesn't make for good reading, but it's the truth all the same.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 20, 2015, 09:20:53 PM
We are spineless mate.

Jellyfish F.C
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 20, 2015, 10:49:36 PM
Good posts all round my friends, albeit the circumstances is hugely depressing.

I really would like to pick up on what Dude said about midfielders. I couldn't agree more on that one. Surely Henderson, Can and Lucas must be the worst startning CM for Liverpool on this side of Powell jumping 8.95? Over the next 13 months we will se at least 2 of these being omitted from the squad.

I am also in the same corner as Bart as far as Coutinho goes. Indeed a player for high profile games but over the course of the season he scores an 8 fewer than 10 times. He just doesn't have what it takes to perform on a continual basis.

All in all we might have a fairly talented squad but as Bart says there's too many luxuary players in there. There's no Phil Neville or Nicky Butt's, if you catch my drift? The only players with the right mental set up I can Think of is Sakho, Can (though it may not be matched by quality), Moreno and Origi. The rest may have their good sides but they do not have what it takes to win titles. More than anything that goes for our captain who gets away no matter how average he plays, while people (yeah, that's you Carra, lost faith in you there mate) can't wait to slate him tho non of this errors led to anything that even looked remotely dangerous.

I'm just happy to have this place to get back into a better mode. This was, however, one of the worst displays I've seen.

I do wonder if Klopp is biding his time accepting this is how it will be until reinforcements arrive and the deadwood can silently be shipped out?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 20, 2015, 11:08:52 PM
We constantly said that the squad is unbalanced and I think we are seeing the true extent of that.

A squad needs a blend of players and a blend of collective characteristics.

Pace, experience, guile, being prepared to fight the physical aspects of the game and the opponent for the right to exhibit the technical ones, a defensive organiser, a goal keeper worthy of the name etc, etc.

It's hard to think of a player that's been brought in from another PL club that's consistently reproduced the form from their previous club. Hendo and Sturridge don't count as they were young players when brought in.

I agree re Coutinho. His sort of player can blow hot and cold, but he's cold too often, and when he is cold he's damned freezing. We could carry him if we had the squad to lessen the times he's not 'on it'.

Firmino is a better player than he's shown so far, but I'm not sure why he's not showing it so often.

Are there many players in the squad that we'd list as 'definite keep hold ofs', as it's hard to think of too many.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 20, 2015, 11:42:04 PM
Clyne and Moreno should be kept. They're still fairly young.

Ibe is a no-brainer.

Sakho dito.

Henderson can be a good squad player and is no captain - a young Milner if you like.

Origi's the most improved player under Klopp despite limited game time last month or so.

The rest could be sold as far as I'm concerned. Can might be the exception. He's very young but we cannot play this "he's only young-card" for another decade.

All in all a complete and total over-haul awaits. Again! *sigh*
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 21, 2015, 02:53:50 PM
Rafa won 10-2 yesterday.   

All this turmoil, from a crazy sacking five years ago.

With Suarez, Rafa would have walked a league title or two.  And maybe another European Cup too.

Just sayin!   8)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on December 21, 2015, 10:20:21 PM
Just saw the Arsenal-City game. For me Arsenal have the best team in the league and when fully fit they have the best in depth offense in the league as well. Considering the rest of the teams in the league the lack of depth in central defence and a DM to compete with Coquelin won't be a hinderance to them.
Also people underrate the signing of Cech also. A solid and reliable GK gives a team an in built confidence that the last line of defence can save them out of danger and the breeds confidence amongst the defence and the rest of the outfield.

Plus the greatest thing of all winning trophies. I said it in the summer and I'll repeat it again winning the cup back to back has given them that winning mentality back again. That squad now know how to win trophies. It knows what it takes to get the job done. Of course the league is different from a cup but that confidence and mentality is the same feeling. That taste of winning trophies once you've won one just whets the appetite for even more and the hunger increases.

Even more so with Pellegrini now certain to leave and Pep going to City next summer (presumably) well needless to say that means the city players won't fight as hard for Pellegrini now - its only natural when the whole world knows what is going to happen so the City players will have no incentive to fight for Pellegrini. So the way is clear for Arsenal it is their best chance since 2004 to win it again and I believe they will.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on December 21, 2015, 10:36:49 PM
Just been reading the past few posts.

People weren't complaining about our spine against Chelsea, City and the saints.

Whilst I believe the truth of the matter is probably somewhere in between those 3 performances and the performances against newcastle, wba and Watford. In that the spine isn't as good as those 3 majestic performances made us out to be but it isn't as awful as the last 3 results suggest either.

Really I think these players should make up our spine and I say should because they are all good enough to be in teams challenging for titles and trophies from what I have seen of them on a long term basis and those players are Clyne, Sakho, Henderson, Coutinho and Sturridge. Now Sturridge is not dependable therefore we can't count on him therefore we have to decide to stick or twist this upcoming summer with what we have. I think our owners will not want to fork our vast sums for strikers again. So unless it is in a part exchange deal or a 'bosman' or cheap and thusly if its cheap they won't be considered the No.1 or even No.2 I wouldn't count on us buying a striker in the next 2 transfer windows*

So we need to build around that spine. We definitely need a new goalkeeper without question. I am still doubtful about Moreno. I think positionally he gets caught out far too often and for me is quite poor at reading the game. Methinks he is another Riise - when we really need another Aurelio.

Certainly we need another central/defensive midfielder. I think this will be our big money signing next summer. But someone to complement Henderson and/or Can. In regards to Can I still think he has room for improvement. But mentally he is superb.

I think Klopp will also look towards signing a Reus like player (but not Reus) but an forward to play in the flank area allowing Coutinho to be more central.

But I do expect a good 7-8 players to leave us in the next 3 transfer windows. By 2017 I think Mignolet, Lovren, Skrtel, Milner, Firmino, Sturridge, Benteke to all leave us. I also expect Coutinho to leave us for pastures new also. It wouldn't surprise me to see Sakho and Can leaving by then as well. Quite frankly it wouldn't surprise me to see Jurgen sell every single defender at the club bar Clyne and Gomez by that time.

*This changes if we sell either of Sturridge or Benteke in January/next summer.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 22, 2015, 04:00:14 PM
People weren't complaining about our spine against Chelsea, City and the saints.

Firstly you have to enjoy rarities like that. There's plenty of times we feel rotten.

I don't think anyone was fooled by those results. There's been more than enough said about the individuals and collectively over time by all of us without bringing the mood down during a rare good moment.

The reason our defence is so poor is probably because Skrtel has been seen as the benchmark, the standard etc and has been regarded as our best defender. Apart from the time when Steve Clarke was at the club, Skrtel has done nothing but give me heart failure - I won't expand further as there are more than plenty of my posts on the subject.

It's not just individuals that are the problem, it's the lack of cohesion, blend, enhancing and 'making up for' that when all put together, our individual team/squad members fail to produce as the sum, the collective end product.

Do our collection of centre halves compliment each other as well as being good enough individually? Can we make a cohesive forward line or attack out of our strikers and attacking players?
What does the blend of our midfield look like when any number of our midfielders are chosen to play together?
Do they provide the necessary support for both defence and attack, whilst dealing with their direct competition from the opposition's midfield?

Does our goalkeeper succeed in his individual tasks, as well as being a vital part of a defensive 'unit'?

There are huge changes, but I think part of the problem is the huge turnover of players we've gone through in the last two Summers. It's just been constant churn.

I wouldn't want to see more than two first 11 players come in this January. In fact, I'd settle for just changing the goalkeeper. Defensive improvement could even come from just that. Ability to organise, confidence inspiring, would be just two characteristics that could improve the defensive unit as a whole without changing a single defender.

We need our changes to be kept to an absolute minimum if possible over the next two windows, but with each individual change bringing maxmised improvement and effect.

If we change 5 or 6 individuals again in the Summer we are guaranteeing inconsistency right from the off again.

So if possible, minimal change, but maximised improvement. The first 3 changes to players that would be part of the 'normal' starting 11 need to be selected with much more care than they have been in the past.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 22, 2015, 04:05:14 PM
An interesting piece from Bascombe:

Comment: If Klopp is to succeed at Liverpool he must analyse predecessors’ failures and act accordingly

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/comment-if-klopp-is-to-succeed-at-liverpool-he-must-analyse-predecessors-failures-and-act-accordingly-34308486.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/comment-if-klopp-is-to-succeed-at-liverpool-he-must-analyse-predecessors-failures-and-act-accordingly-34308486.html)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 23, 2015, 07:27:51 PM
(http://www.rajanego.co.id/olahraga/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/John-Aldridge-berita-prediksibola.com_.jpg)

From John Aldridge's column

There is no doubt that the Liverpool squad needs strengthening in January.

We need more battlers because we’re getting out-fought. It happened against West Brom and it happened again against Watford.  As the old saying goes, you need to win the individual battles and then the quality shines through. We failed to win those battles at Vicarage Road.

In terms of positions where we need to buy, you could go right through the spine of the team - centre-half, centre midfield, striker.  I was watching Sunday’s game with a lot of the ex-players as it was our Christmas drinks and that performance put a dampener on the day. There were no positives to take from it.

I know Watford have been doing well and you can’t take anything for granted but you can’t go to Vicarage Road and lose 3-0. You have to stand up and be counted.

I know what Jurgen Klopp was hoping for by starting with the front three who tore Man City apart but Watford away on a cold December afternoon, on a smaller pitch against a team who are in your faces was a different challenge. Watford never gave us the space to play. They fought for everything and out-battled us.

The frustration is we have to work so hard for our goals, but we concede them at the other end so cheaply. The errors are so basic - from the keeper to the players in front of him - and teams keep capitalising on that.

We don’t defend corners well enough and we don’t take corners well enough. Set-pieces account for around a third of goals in the Premier League. It’s a big part of the game and we have to improve drastically at both ends.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 23, 2015, 07:38:13 PM
every since I mentioned spine on Sunday afternoon, every man and his dog has been stealing my lines!    :)    hehe

But John Aldridge's analysis above, is pretty much exactly what mine is.

We do not have the battlers, nor the determination, that one needs against teams like Watford.

As has been said many times previously, you first of all have to win those individual battles (most are in the middle of the park), BEFORE you can start to exert your technical brilliance on a game.

We are dealing with five years of bad management....in terms of owners, their american mates advising the club on football matters, the transfer committee, and the manager/assistants (pre Klopp).

These five years have seen superb lads being shown the door far too early (oh for having the likes of Dirk Kuyt at the club now), and replacements that are not fit to lace their predecessors boots.  I think we need a new central defence, and at least two top experienced midfielders brought in (and I don't mean 19 year olds), plus at least one top striker.

Countinho and Firmino are superb, and the future of the club.  But we need a better balance of steel alongside and behind them. 

Hell, our striking dept is so poor, why not experiment and let the two Brazilians play up front as a duo, and rejig our midfield with more steel.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 24, 2015, 12:52:42 AM
An interesting piece from Bascombe:

Comment: If Klopp is to succeed at Liverpool he must analyse predecessors’ failures and act accordingly

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/comment-if-klopp-is-to-succeed-at-liverpool-he-must-analyse-predecessors-failures-and-act-accordingly-34308486.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/comment-if-klopp-is-to-succeed-at-liverpool-he-must-analyse-predecessors-failures-and-act-accordingly-34308486.html)

Brilliant piece of Bascombe. I do, however, firmly believe we need to buy our way out of the CM conundrum which has haunted us since (dare I say it) the hey-days of Rafa. It doesn't have to be the next Gerrard or Yaya Toure. The next Phil Neville or Nicky Butt would do just fine. Why oh, why didn't we go for Delph when we had the chance? Why can't we find players like Kante of Leicester?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 24, 2015, 02:28:56 PM
Quote
CB writes:  Calls for new manager to reshape squad are borne of frustration. If he is to succeed he has to analyse what predecessors’ did and do it differently. 

There was a recent episode of Doctor Who where Peter Capaldi found himself in a purgatorial revolving castle, challenged to escape only to be transported back to the same place he started to repeat the process over and over again.

This went on for over a billion years, the Doctor acting and saying exactly the same thing each time as he plotted his way out.  To many viewers it was all a bit confusing.

To me, it was a metaphor for covering Liverpool Football Club in recent times.

Managers come and are embraced, do well, sign players, do a bit better, sign more players, deteriorate, leave, and then the process starts again with an idealistic new coach.

Interesting article.  Thanks for the link, Tes.

I find it hard to take Bascombe seriously in recent years.

I used to really find him an enjoyable read, when he had his finger on the pulse of what was going on inside Anfield.  He clearly had a senior contact within the club.  Now, these past 5 or so years, he does not have that same inside news.  I guess changes at the club.

He speaks above, about being on a continual manager-go-round and the same cycle repeating itself, over and over.

He was the chief ar.se.hole that sh.at upon Rafa at every opportunity, for a year or two before our man was sacked.   And not forgetting the couple of senior players (we can guess who those know-nothing-c.xunts were). 

Who needs enemies, when we have mates like Bascombe around.

So yes, 5 years later, we are on another learning cycle for a new manager.  Jurgen Klopp will take several years to get up to speed.....several years to learn how to compete in England, against the fast, often in-yer-face, opposition. 

We had a superb world-class manager, already 5 years down that learning curve, who on a shoestring, had  taken us to two European Cup finals, an FA Cup victory, a Charity Shield, a European Super Cup, and in March to May 2009 - 10 wins out of the final 11 games, helping us finish second in the league.......having beaten Real Madrid 4-0 and Man Utd 4-1 in the same week (early March 2009).  The best week of my Liverpool life possibly...a real high.    And all this, whilst dealing with the Toxic yanks who were selling off the funiture around him, and in the space of only 5 years.  The man was a miracle worker.  Anyone that can take Djimi Traore to the winning podium in a CL final, has to be a genius.

And yet Basco shat upon Rafa every Sunday, in his News of the Turd columns.....the same News of the Turd that closed in disgrace....the same News of the Turd that is the Murdock stablemate of the Shun.  Why would anyone right-thinking Liverpool person ever join, in 2007, that scum paper.

I just can't take much of what he says seriously.  It's as if he now thinks he had nothing to do with undermining Rafa, and his subsequent sacking. 

Sorry, off on a rant.  What was the question again?   :) :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 24, 2015, 07:46:25 PM
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03531/jimmy-hill1_3531127b.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/23/17/2F970D3000000578-3372281-image-a-44_1450892246569.jpg)

So sad to see the passing these past few days of Jimmy Hill and Don Howe.

They formed a major part of the first half of my life (i.e. pre-Sky) watching football.

Good people.  Never given the credit they deserved.  IMHO.

The football world is that bit colder today, with them gone.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 24, 2015, 08:40:25 PM
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03531/jimmy-hill1_3531127b.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/23/17/2F970D3000000578-3372281-image-a-44_1450892246569.jpg)

So sad to see the passing these past few days of Jimmy Hill and Don Howe.

They formed a major part of the first half of my life (i.e. pre-Sky) watching football.

Good people.  Never given the credit they deserved.  IMHO.

The football world is that bit colder today, with them gone.

The MOTD set - sticklebricks meets lego. Why is there something so reassuring about the tastelessness of the 70s?  ;D

Jimmy Hill was always ahead of his time with everything, but it was always firmly rooted in football.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 24, 2015, 09:15:59 PM
The MOTD set - sticklebricks meets lego. Why is there something so reassuring about the tastelessness of the 70s?  ;D

Jimmy Hill was always ahead of his time with everything, but it was always firmly rooted in football.

exactly, Tes.

It was football, first and last.   

I recall, a few years back, near the start of Lineker's time at the BBC....and they were showing a recorded highlights of a Newcastle game at St James Park on Match of the Day.

Anyway during the game, the camera cut to the Newcastle chairman slugging down pints of beer.

As much as I have no time for their chairman, I thought that was crass, and most incorrect coverage, from Match of the Day.  It was a deliberate thing by the BBC.  That type of issue is one for the Sunday papers, not for the BBC.  They were getting involved in internal club politics.  They were making the news, not covering it.

Standards have slipped a fair bit over the years.

I am gonna miss Jimmy and the folk of his era.   Good, decent, honest, people. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 24, 2015, 09:51:38 PM
exactly, Tes.

It was football, first and last.   

I recall, a few years back, near the start of Lineker's time at the BBC....and they were showing a recorded highlights of a Newcastle game at St James Park on Match of the Day.

Anyway during the game, the camera cut to the Newcastle chairman slugging down pints of beer.

As much as I have no time for their chairman, I thought that was crass, and most incorrect coverage, from Match of the Day.  It was a deliberate thing by the BBC.  That type of issue is one for the Sunday papers, not for the BBC.  They were getting involved in internal club politics.  They were making the news, not covering it.

Standards have slipped a fair bit over the years.

I am gonna miss Jimmy and the folk of his era.   Good, decent, honest, people.

Jimmy Armfield's another. I used to put the football commentary on on Radio 5 live just to see if Jimmy Armfield was co-commentator, and if he was, even though it wasn't our match, I'd still listen to it just to listen to Jimmy Armfield talking about the game.

There are some people you could listen to for the rest of your life talking about football. Most of the 'pundits' now make me want to look up the rules of bridge and learn it.

Martin Keown, despite looking like the missing link between man and primates, and running like it with his thumbs up during his career, can sometimes come up with things worth listening to.

I sometimes yearn for Tony Adams to be on MOTD, so at least when laughable nonsense is being spouted, we'd at least have the comedic value poor old Tony can't help but bring.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 25, 2015, 11:18:13 AM
Jimmy Armfield's another. I used to put the football commentary on on Radio 5 live just to see if Jimmy Armfield was co-commentator, and if he was, even though it wasn't our match, I'd still listen to it just to listen to Jimmy Armfield talking about the game.

There are some people you could listen to for the rest of your life talking about football.

Martin Keown, despite looking like the missing link between man and primates, and running like it with his thumbs up during his career, can sometimes come up with things worth listening to.

I sometimes yearn for Tony Adams to be on MOTD, so at least when laughable nonsense is being spouted, we'd at least have the comedic value poor old Tony can't help but bring.

yes Keown is insightful.

I haven't seen Tony Adams in recent years - well not since he went to Radio Norwich (err, some far-flung corner of some ex Russian republic - azbeckyistan or summat).   

His facial communications were always at total contrast to his verbal utterings.  How that bloke gets work as a manager, farless media work, is well beyond my understanding. 

Yes, Jimmy Armfield.  Awesome.  I could listen to Jimmy all day/night.  In the 90s, I used to finish work in midweek, late, between 9 and 9.30pm.  I'd drive home, listening to some premiership, or more likely European Cup match.....often Liverpool.....listening to my face duo - Alan Green and Jimmy Armfield.  They were both passionate, and brought the best out of each other.  You felt the respect they both had for each other. 

Does Jimmy still do media work, Tes?   

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 25, 2015, 04:06:20 PM
(http://m9.i.pbase.com/o6/01/713901/1/131366849.fjC0bWVy.AHappyCrimbleandverynewyeartoyouall.jpg)

happy crimble, one and all.

best of luck for the new fear.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 25, 2015, 04:55:42 PM
(http://m9.i.pbase.com/o6/01/713901/1/131366849.fjC0bWVy.AHappyCrimbleandverynewyeartoyouall.jpg)

happy crimble, one and all.

best of luck for the new fear.

What? No orange football for the snow?  ;D  I miss orange footballs at Winter matches.

Happy Christmas to everyone here, and let's look forward to a final in the New Year, hopefully a trophy and Klopp picking one or two new faces that really kick start a change in the quality, consistency and outcome of our performances.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 25, 2015, 04:58:42 PM
What I wouldn't give for us to a Watford to Leicester tomorrow.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 25, 2015, 05:06:39 PM
What? No orange football for the snow?  ;D  I miss orange footballs at Winter matches.

Happy Christmas to everyone here, and let's look forward to a final in the New Year, hopefully a trophy and Klopp picking one or two new faces that really kick start a change in the quality, consistency and outcome of our performances.

oh yes, orange footballs!  I remember those well. 

and back then, football pitches were for men - mud, puddles, fog, snow, freezing, heavy balls, big defenders that kicked and went through the back of you to get to the ball (or not).

yes, let's hope for a great new year.

mind you, I have to be honest, and admit that I am in two minds tomorrow.  I don't want us to take points off Leicester, if it means they fall short in their hunt for the title.   

The Leicester fairy-tale is the biggest thing in the 24 or so years since the Premiership was formed.

 8)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 25, 2015, 06:37:10 PM
oh yes, orange footballs!  I remember those well. 

and back then, football pitches were for men - mud, puddles, fog, snow, freezing, heavy balls, big defenders that kicked and went through the back of you to get to the ball (or not).

yes, let's hope for a great new year.

mind you, I have to be honest, and admit that I am in two minds tomorrow.  I don't want us to take points off Leicester, if it means they fall short in their hunt for the title.   

The Leicester fairy-tale is the biggest thing in the 24 or so years since the Premiership was formed.

 8)

Looking at the table though if we're not careful we're already reaching the danger point of being cut adrift from a chance of 4th.
Then again, if that's the case by the time the UEFA Cup starts up again, then maybe that will focus things, and we go all out for a CL place via winning a trophy, rather than a mere finishing position in the league.

I've just a slight feeling that Klopp is looking more to success in the cups, bagging a trophy never hurts irrespective of your league position, and use the rest of the league season to understand what's required in the PL, and have a full picture of who and what he has in the squad, ready to make some of the required changes in the Summer.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 25, 2015, 07:52:41 PM
Looking at the table though if we're not careful we're already reaching the danger point of being cut adrift from a chance of 4th.
Then again, if that's the case by the time the UEFA Cup starts up again, then maybe that will focus things, and we go all out for a CL place via winning a trophy, rather than a mere finishing position in the league.

I've just a slight feeling that Klopp is looking more to success in the cups, bagging a trophy never hurts irrespective of your league position, and use the rest of the league season to understand what's required in the PL, and have a full picture of who and what he has in the squad, ready to make some of the required changes in the Summer.

I think Leicester could give us a lesson tomorrow - if we are not careful.

They will easily soak up our toothless pressure, and strike at pace, on the counter attack.

Like you, I suspect Klopp is gonna give it a real good go in the Cups this season.  And assess his needs, by watching how we perform in the rest of the league season.

I think he is starting to realise that his early assessment of our team and squad, was badly off.  To compete in the premiership, he needs a new central defence, and a more balanced midfield, with more steel in it.

And a keeper, and a striker are needed too.  Half a team.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 26, 2015, 03:14:25 PM
Stoke beat United 2-0 today, to heap the pressure on Van Gaal.

There is something strange going on this season, and I am still trying to figure it out.

The top teams are having problems breaking the mid and low-table teams down.

Those weaker teams seem far better organised, this season.  Thus the Palaces, Watfords and Stokes of this world, are pulling off big results against the bigger teams.

What is going on.

I wonder if the increased Sky/BT contracts, is now meaning that the lower teams can now afford to compete and pay their players bigger wages - thus the big clubs are unable to poach their best players (and weaken them, in doing so).   And in not losing their best players, those lower clubs have continuity, and maintain their structure.

Two examples.  United could not prise Sadio Mané away from Southampton in the summer......and Chelsea, despite massive efforts across the summer, and big money, could not prise John Stones away from Everton. 

That is my best guess so far.  Something is definitely amiss this season.  Not that I am complaining, mind.  It is great to see the league being more competitive.  And I would adore seeing Leicester hang on, at the top.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on December 27, 2015, 01:56:35 AM
Great result for us today.

Dude, I think clubs can now afford a better quality 'lesser' player than they could before. The players making the headlines are lesser known ones, but are of a sufficient quality to make the difference, a quality clubs couldn't previously afford.
The managers at these clubs have all put together squads that play to the strengths of the players, and in not necessarily buying a 'name' like we did with Benteke, but buying good players that are the perfect fit, unlike we did with Benteke, they've put together a group of players that compliment each other, rather than just a group of players like we have done, unbalanced and ill-fitting within a team structure.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 27, 2015, 10:14:54 PM
Great result for us today.

Dude, I think clubs can now afford a better quality 'lesser' player than they could before. The players making the headlines are lesser known ones, but are of a sufficient quality to make the difference, a quality clubs couldn't previously afford.
The managers at these clubs have all put together squads that play to the strengths of the players, and in not necessarily buying a 'name' like we did with Benteke, but buying good players that are the perfect fit, unlike we did with Benteke, they've put together a group of players that compliment each other, rather than just a group of players like we have done, unbalanced and ill-fitting within a team structure.

they certainly seems to be better team play across these less well-off clubs.

I hope against hope, that Leicester can hold on.

But more likely, they will fall away, and Man City will win the title.

But is is a very bizarre season.

We really had to work hard and hold on yesterday.   Any time Leicester broke, or got a cross in, I was on tender-hooks.

I have no faith in our central defenders - Lovren, Skytrel and Sakho.

And although he got the winner, my oh my, what a desperately poor player Benteke is.

He looks like he is running in treacle, and his first touch (hell, second, third, fourth, any touch), is dire.

The one he missed in injury time, sums the lad up.  He is played through - their keeper is in our half.....Benteke only has to run a few yards and shoot the ball home.  But no, he scratches his ar.se in the mean-time, goes for a pee, and misses.    Simply nowhere near good enough at this level.  And the Kop's reaction told you all you need to know, about what they think of the lad's abilities.




Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 29, 2015, 08:39:31 PM
28th December, West Ham 2, Southampton 1  (Monday)
2nd January, West Ham Liverpool (Saturday)

30th December Sunderland Liverpool  (Wednesday)
2nd January, West Ham Liverpool (Saturday)


Above are the respective fixtures for West Ham and Liverpool.

We play West Ham in London this weekend.

West Ham have 4 full days between their home games (28th Dec Monday, to 2nd Jan Saturday).

Liverpool have only 2 full days between their two games.  And both our games are away......initially travelling to the far north east, to play Sunderland.....and then having to go down to the south east, to play West Ham.

How in under goodness can this be fair??   Our opponents have 2 extra days off.  Both their games are at home.   

The demands of TV, on football fixtures, are badly distorting league positions.  Patently unfair.





Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 29, 2015, 08:44:08 PM
And THEN, we have only two full days off, before we are away to Stoke!!

And then, another two full days off, before we travel to Exeter.

And four full days off, before we entertain league leaders, Arsenal.  (we are only after entertaining league leaders, Leicester in our last game).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on December 30, 2015, 10:24:45 PM
No coincidence we look more secure without Skrtel at the back.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 30, 2015, 11:22:02 PM
Either this is our clawing our way back into this season or it is just another false dawn (betting on the latter). In any case it is obvious our team, yes our sqaud, is the weakest I've ever seen. Same goes with the so called captain of ours. No doubt his fans will bring out the injury-card, but it was there against Leicester to see he is no more than a squad player at best. We will never win anything significant with him on the pitch playing a siginficant role.

Firmino - I do understand why you got the sack Brennie.
Lallana - I do understand why you got the sack Brennie.

Coutinho was better in first half then he was against Leicester. Still, I think he's had 14 or so attempts in the last two games. None really threatened. He'd be great at Arsenal or City though, with better players around him.

It still very much is Brendan Rodgers side, you really can tell. For parts of the game they stick with what Klopp told them, but once tiredness sets in, and subsequent lack of concentration results, our gameplan collapse. It's been pretty much the same since Spurs away. That's why I disagree with Bascombe - we need another overhaul. This time we have the man to oversee it though. That's the difference. The need for it is glaringly obvious.

The only good thing to take from this game bar the 3 points is the emergence of a decent CB-pairing. I believe Skrtel has started his last game in a competetive game of importance for this club if both Lovren and Sakho are fit and available.

I expect us to be well and truly beaten by West Ham.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on December 31, 2015, 02:41:55 PM
Oh, and Happy New Year to alla of you! ;)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 31, 2015, 08:25:10 PM
I expect us to be well and truly beaten by West Ham.

good to see the old Martin back. 

I was worried there for a bit, what with all that positive stuff. 

 ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on December 31, 2015, 08:29:20 PM
Oh, and Happy New Year to alla of you! ;)

you too, Martin.

Best wishes from Panama for 2016.

Feliz nuevo anos!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 01, 2016, 01:17:42 AM
good to see the old Martin back. 

I was worried there for a bit, what with all that positive stuff. 

 ;D

Nah, it's just that it's obvious we don't have what it takes to down the Hammers at Upton Park. Remember back in 2003, I think it was, when I was stood in the away section and we beat them 3-0. How things have changed since. Then it was a minimum requirement to win, now we're not even favorites.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on January 01, 2016, 12:15:48 PM
I agree with Martin I expect us to get beaten as well for a number of reasons:-

1) West Ham have had more time to prepare for this game.

2) West Ham at Upton Park are always difficult to beat.

3) We seemingly only create 1-2 proper goal scoring chances per game. Not good enough at places like West Ham.

I expect a 2-1 or 3-1 loss.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 01, 2016, 12:47:01 PM
I agree.

We have had two days since the last game (west ham have had four days).  And we have been made to travel the length of the country (to the north east, and now to the south east).  West Ham have been home all Xmas, with their feet up at the fire.

If we are to have any success, we have to be solid in the middle.  Some steel.....with Can and Henderson tough....and Continho and his Brazilian mate on fire.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on January 01, 2016, 01:10:40 PM
We need pace and strength which is why I would not play both of Coutinho and Firmino but instead replace Firmino with Ibe. It is also a shame Milner is still out as we could have used his solidness in the middle. Lucas must play.

So same back 4 as against Sunderland, Lucas, Can, Henderson in the middle, Ibe and Coutinho either side of Benteke. Would be my team.

We can't afford to play all three of Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana in this fixture imo. As we'd lose the central midfield battle. As you quite rightly stated we need to win the battle first. Which is why for me Lucas must start alongside Can and Henderson.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on January 01, 2016, 02:38:06 PM
Very tricky games with both West Ham and Stoke away. Agreed with all about winning the midfield battle. We need to keep our players fresh and so Ibe and Lucas should start with firmino/lallana/coutinho dropped to the bench. A 4-4-2 might be interesting as well with Origi and Benteke up front.
We've been linked with a couple of experienced players from the Bundesliga, a central defender from Borrusia and a 31 yr old goal poacher. Both at 3/4 mil each and worth a gamble if they can bring some steel to our side.
Berahino linked also. Will be too expensive and a waste of our transfer fund.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 01, 2016, 05:25:15 PM
yes, agree with edward and bart's team selection ideas.

absolutely crucial to initially win the physical battle in the middle.

For me, Ibe has to be more aware of what's around him, and release the ball sooner.  He takes too many touches and often runs into poor areas.  With age, he will have better end product.

Yes, Bart, I have thought this season about a 4-4-2.  It would be worth a go at some point.

Origi could be a diamond in the future.  I must say, even although he is starting to score goals, so don't laugh, but I have not been impressed with Benteke.   At this level, one needs better quality.  imho
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 01, 2016, 05:46:07 PM
I agree with Edward and Bart on their teamselection. Also agree our less time to prepare might play a role, But most of all I believe our physical and mental weakness will cost us.

In the meantime I recommend this Beautiful piece by James Lawton. Regardless of how you feel about the content (reckon most of you agree with him) his writing is truly amazing.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/james-lawton-klopp-leads-way-in-leagues-race-to-a-new-order-34327713.html

* Can't insert hyperlink for some reason.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 01, 2016, 09:28:37 PM
In the meantime I recommend this Beautiful piece by James Lawton. Regardless of how you feel about the content (reckon most of you agree with him) his writing is truly amazing.

James Lawton has been writing regurgitating the same piece since 1855.

Journalism by numbers.   

What he knows about football, could be written on the back of a cigarette packet. 

He has no insight, or inside stuff, for modern football.  He relies on reflective columns, based on yesteryear.  Yarns about how Busby would have done it, the great Jock Stein, how Bobby Charlton would have flicked his one hair over his head era, the ghost of Shankly, etc.   Yarns that he has dined out on for over 40 years.

And he wrote endless hate-filled columns aimed at Rafa Benitez.  The guy should have been pensioned off 30 years ago.

And no, I don't like his writing style.   

Sorry Martin!   :)

Happy new year! 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 02, 2016, 01:32:39 AM
Each to his own then! :D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on January 02, 2016, 01:38:09 PM
As we expected. Gutless performance.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on January 02, 2016, 01:44:58 PM
That was horrible to watch, but not really a surprise.

Awful passing, awful crossing, awful defending, no desire, no skill.

Unfortunately, I think most of these players are beyond the point of improving their faults, and a smart Klopp will realise this quickly enough and lose his patience.

Firmino, Lallana, Benteke, plus a few others who just have next to zero cut throat mentality. What is Benteke playing at squaring balls 8 yards out. I have no idea.

A lot are mentally fragile, soft, and all too willing to get bullied. It doesn’t seem to hurt them as much as it does the manager. I have said this for a while now. Go and find players who hate getting beat. Mentality is everything.

West Ham could be 3-4 goals up if they were clinical enough. We were lucky the other day that Sunderland were utter utter utter dog shed. Even then we barely scraped over the line.

The sooner we can ship out some of these soft bottom players the better.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on January 02, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
Stoke are going to humble us on tuesday.

No passion, no intelligence, weak mentality, lack of fight.

We all knew we'd be beaten today and that says something.......right.

We need 7 players in the summer to re-address this. We need a GK, CB, LB, DM, CM, LW and striker.

We lack dynamism and creativity in the middle. We badly lack a DM. Can for me is not a pure DM and Lucas's legs have clearly gone.

 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 02, 2016, 02:35:19 PM
I agree with pretty much all you say, Edward.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 02, 2016, 02:36:37 PM
from the live Guardian game feed:

“Liverpool are well known for spending large amounts on large and immobile strikers, with little return,” writes Paul Devlin. “Transfer policy is somewhat odd. Particularly when looking at the top scorers table- for the £32.5m spent on Benteke (6 goals) Liverpool could have signed Lukaku (15) and Vardy (15) plus Ighalo (14) and Mahrez (13). And had some change. It isn’t Benteke’s fault that so much was spent on him of course. Though it is his fault that he won’t run, can’t control a ball, can’t pass and can’t win aerial duels. Sigh.”

Sums it up for me.   Benteke is nowhere near the level needed at a top club.   I think even a fit Andy Carroll would be twice the player.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 02, 2016, 02:41:40 PM
That was horrible to watch, but not really a surprise.

Awful passing, awful crossing, awful defending, no desire, no skill.

Unfortunately, I think most of these players are beyond the point of improving their faults, and a smart Klopp will realise this quickly enough and lose his patience.

Firmino, Lallana, Benteke, plus a few others who just have next to zero cut throat mentality. What is Benteke playing at squaring balls 8 yards out. I have no idea.

A lot are mentally fragile, soft, and all too willing to get bullied. It doesn’t seem to hurt them as much as it does the manager. I have said this for a while now. Go and find players who hate getting beat. Mentality is everything.

absolutely.

I think we are now paying the costs of our transfer policy post 2010.

We need a top scouting team.  This 47 year old kid we employed from City, Barry Hunter, as our Chief Scout, is tripe.    Funny enough, he is from the same town as me.  He is 4 years younger than me.  Nowhere near good enough.

We are paying the price of a very bad scouting and transfer team.

Plus, the mentality of the owners (buy cheap and young) is also a major hindrance.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 02, 2016, 02:55:22 PM
Live Guardian feed:

90 min: Unmarked in the West Ham penalty area, Joe Allen meets a cross from the left but heads high and wide. He should have scored.


But when does Allen EVER score?   Even looking at wikipedia for one minute, would alert a scout (or manager) to the fact that he has only ever scored 12 goals in his 9 year club career.   i.e. around a goal per season, across his career.





Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 02, 2016, 03:04:09 PM
Benteke won 2/13 (15%) of his aerial duels today.

If he isn't even winning his battles what does he offer
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 02, 2016, 03:07:08 PM
A big, static lump stood motionless, scratching his posterior, occasionally with his hands up, wanting the ball put on a sixpence before he'll even bother.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 02, 2016, 03:29:35 PM
"It is 2-0, and it is deserved"   Jurgen Klopp

"It's not a day to be disappointed, it's a day to be angry."  Jurgen Klopp
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 03:46:47 PM
What is Benteke playing at squaring balls 8 yards out. I have no idea.

After two horror misses his confidence is through the floor, maybe?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 03:48:40 PM
It doesn’t seem to hurt them as much as it does the manager.

I guess the huge pay cheque each week nicely softens the blow. Pathetic, isn't it?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 03:52:28 PM
A big, static lump stood motionless, scratching his posterior, occasionally with his hands up, wanting the ball put on a sixpence before he'll even bother.

It's surreal to think that our two highest transfers are both that. And this from a team not famed for it's long ball game.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 03:54:54 PM
Stoke are going to humble us on tuesday.

Since we drew them our respective form graphs have been diverging.

It will be humiliating, though of no surprise. It's become the norm for this group of players.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 02, 2016, 03:57:12 PM
It's surreal to think that our two highest transfers are both that. And this from a team not famed for it's long ball game.

yes, it indicates (to me) several years of very poor transfer policy.

like I mean, these past 5 years, beyond Luis Suarez, we have an exceptionally poor record in the market.  One could argue for Sturridge - but hell, he is constantly injured.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 04:10:49 PM
We were lucky the other day that Sunderland were utter utter utter dog shed. Even then we barely scraped over the line.

There's always the hope that winning when playing poorly can lead to an upsurge in confidence and hence performance. In our case it only ever seems to a portent.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 04:14:42 PM
absolutely.

I think we are now paying the costs of our transfer policy post 2010.

We need a top scouting team.  This 47 year old kid we employed from City, Barry Hunter, as our Chief Scout, is tripe.    Funny enough, he is from the same town as me.  He is 4 years younger than me.  Nowhere near good enough.

We are paying the price of a very bad scouting and transfer team.

Plus, the mentality of the owners (buy cheap and young) is also a major hindrance.

Dude, we seem to be the only ones that see a problem with our whole recruitment process. The owners don't seem to see a problem.

You look at all the money spent since they've been here, and that spans both Dalglish/Comolli and Rodgers, and you look at our squad and any starting line up and think "but where's our match winner(s)?"
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
yes, it indicates (to me) several years of very poor transfer policy.

like I mean, these past 5 years, beyond Luis Suarez, we have an exceptionally poor record in the market.  One could argue for Sturridge - but hell, he is constantly injured.

Exactly. Suarez, Sturridge, when not broken and a very occasional mention for Coutinho. That's it. One and two bits of successful pieces of transfer business.

It depends on how much input Klopp has and how good his eye is as to whether anything is going to alter. If he relies on any of those involved in our pre-Klopp transfers under FSG, then nothing will change.
I'd prefer that he assembled his own group and installed his own philosophies and procedures into our recruitment, if only to give us hope of success, simply because there's no involvement from those who have previously proven to be 'tried and failed'.   
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 04:36:03 PM
On the subject of transfers, he's today's most bizarre headline:

Steven Gerrard: A couple of additions to Liverpool's squad and it is time to get excited

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/484837/Steven-Gerrard-interview-Liverpool-news (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/484837/Steven-Gerrard-interview-Liverpool-news)

I'm not sure how many are in a 'couple' in Gerrard's world, but in mine there's only 2, and that's nowhere near the number required.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 02, 2016, 05:04:49 PM
It is without a doubt the worst season I've endured. We're so weak, so poor I feel nothing but despise and contempt for the players. I belive Klopp will get his signings right though, but I also expect them to need +6 months to settle. So it will probably be closer to august 17 until we can hold any serious and realistic hope of challenging for the top-4.

At the same time everyfucking thing goes against us. Don't know how many times poor refereeing has cost us this season. Had Can equalised instead of ramming the bar we could well have got at least a point.
 
Watched Arsenal who should've been at least 2-0 down against Newcy before scoring rather luckily to win the game. Agaisnt us Newcastle scored 2 goals from 1 chance.

The PL is sooooo behind La Liga and Bundesliga. I'd say it's closer to Eredivise than any of the two mentioned.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 05:05:24 PM
From: http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/01/cant-defend-crosses-back-off-target-attack-5-talking-points-west-ham-2-0-liverpool/ (http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/01/cant-defend-crosses-back-off-target-attack-5-talking-points-west-ham-2-0-liverpool/)

"The German manager has commendably spoken of his desire to give the group at his disposal the chance, but all they have done is prove their inability to be the squad that takes Liverpool forward."

That is the most disappointing aspect of our recent form. Who actually looks like a player playing for their continued future at the club?

"with the tough and hectic run of fixtures looming against Stoke, Exeter, Arsenal, Man United and Norwich"

It's hardly far fetched to state that looks like a run of 5 defeats right there. It's the lack of work rate, desire and any sort of passion for the shirt that's the most damning and disappointing.

Klopp hasn't struck me as a coach who's come in and blinded the squad with football science. On the contrary, he talks like he's been stripping it back to basics, making sure the fundamentals are in place and wanting us to keep things simply in order to achieve.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 05:08:47 PM
The PL is sooooo behind La Liga and Bundesliga. I'd say it's closer to Eredivise than any of the two mentioned.

It's a bizarre season that's for sure. It's like no-one wants to win the league out of the expected group, and it makes our travails all the more frustrating.

It's going to cost us big time to get rid of the current dross and add what's required.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 02, 2016, 05:33:20 PM
just on the way out the door here.....so only able to offer a quick reply.

I agree with you both, Tes and Martin. 

But I will go back and say, this is what happens when you sack a top manager (Rafa) and bring in dross.  We badly miss Rick Parry too.   We have never recovered from sacking Rafa.

But - today's result was predictable.  We had an awful festive fixture list....with 2 days between two long away trips, at either end of the country.

West Ham had 4 days to prepare between games, and both their festive games were at home.

Today's result was highly predictable.  Tired legs all over the show.

Doesn't hide the fact though that half the team are not good enough to wear the shirt.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 02, 2016, 06:34:46 PM
It's a bizarre season that's for sure. It's like no-one wants to win the league out of the expected group, and it makes our travails all the more frustrating.

It's going to cost us big time to get rid of the current dross and add what's required.

Not sure we need to run the riskt of bankruptcy to get what we want. Fair enough, we'll need to bring in 2-3 big players. But the Bundesliga is full of Austrian, Swiss, Polish, Ukranian players of lowly status that could come in a do a great job for us. This is where I trust Klopp more than anyone on this planet.

He will have to find a new captain sooner rather than later though.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 02, 2016, 06:36:38 PM
Am seriously worried Klopp will be lured by a big club offer and jump ship prematurely. Please tell me I'm being overly dramatic here.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 07:49:59 PM
Am seriously worried Klopp will be lured by a big club offer and jump ship prematurely. Please tell me I'm being overly dramatic here.

Klopps' a football romantic. He loves the idea of making Liverpool into the Liverpool again. There's far more glory in turning us into what we once were than going to a ready made 'moneybags FC'.

I can understand that after today's sort of dross it can get you thinking all sorts of things.

What is sad is that Klopp has come out on many occasions and stated his preference for giving everyone already at the club a chance, and that includes the u-21s too, but the players don't seem as though they are responding and playing for their Liverpool futures.

It's refreshing to see a manager take his time and properly assess who he's got and what he can do with them rather than clammering for the first transfer window and the chance to buy.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 07:56:48 PM
Not sure we need to run the riskt of bankruptcy to get what we want.

Sorry, what I meant Martin was that there are a lot of players we will end up with paying off and losing money on what we paid for them, in order to get them out of the door.

New players don't have to cost £30M+ each, but they will cost in terms of fees and wages, and all those costs will have to be met to turn us around unless the current crop do a u-turn and somehow start performing.

Like the lack of match winners in the squad, the fact that Hendo was given the captaincy also shows the lack of leaders we have too. Nothing against Hendo, but he's not really my idea of a captain.
We lack organisers all over the park too.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 02, 2016, 08:07:28 PM
But the Bundesliga is full of Austrian, Swiss, Polish, Ukranian players of lowly status that could come in a do a great job for us. This is where I trust Klopp more than anyone on this planet.

He will have to find a new captain sooner rather than later though.

We've talked about it before on here for the need to look beyond the PL and the idea that a current PL player will automatically settle in better. There are good players in a lot of European leagues.

The secret is finding those with a burning desire to win and the mentality to perform every game. We may historically be a successful club, and on that are regarded as a big club, but it's not like the players have to deal with semi-finals and finals every year or maintaining being a top 3 and perennial title challenger. We haven't been there for a long time.

At the moment I'd settle for players that give 100% every game. Sometimes you have a match where your touch is off, your timing when striking a ball is a bit out etc, but there are aspects of football that aren't purely talent related, and in those aspects 100% is not too much to ask.
Surely, if your game's a touch off colour you try and make up for it by making sure you're giving 100% in the other aspects, and try to work even harder, if possible to make up for it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 02, 2016, 11:38:48 PM
The secret is finding those with a burning desire to win and the mentality to perform every game. We may historically be a successful club, and on that are regarded as a big club, but it's not like the players have to deal with semi-finals and finals every year or maintaining being a top 3 and perennial title challenger. We haven't been there for a long time.

At the moment I'd settle for players that give 100% every game. Sometimes you have a match where your touch is off, your timing when striking a ball is a bit out etc, but there are aspects of football that aren't purely talent related, and in those aspects 100% is not too much to ask.
Surely, if your game's a touch off colour you try and make up for it by making sure you're giving 100% in the other aspects, and try to work even harder, if possible to make up for it.

absolutely.

leagues are won (and lost) on cold wet November nights in desperate locations.   You scrape those one-nil results.  Fergie was a master of that.  So were we, when we bossed england and europe.

On a good day, you can turn it on.  And the style flows and everyone wants the ball.

I want the Archie Gemills, the John Robertsons, the Graeme Sounesses, the John McGoverns, the Larry Lloyds, who will show up, on those dark nights, when many others want to hide.

I worry though.  The rebuilding job that Klopp has is so big.  We as a club have never been in this position for close to 50 years.  We have to get 5 or 6 new first team players.  That is a big problem....combined with getting rid of the deadwood (who are on big contracts).

Klopp will need to find diamonds - I am hoping he knows the German market well.  And even more, I am hoping that German players can adjust to our physical league.  I suspect Klopp is surprised at the physical stuff that does not get punished in England. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on January 02, 2016, 11:51:54 PM
Reason.

This result was on the cards today. We all saw it and I assume Jurgen will also learn from this.

We obviously need a few experienced players in January. A couple of old experienced hands to fill the gaps and give some stability will be needed. No huge money needs to be spent but i'll assume that Klopp knows a few contenders in the Bundesliga.

Smart move to make the bench so weak.

The stain of Bodgers was heavy here. Benteke has no movement, and the thought as some pundits say that we build our squad around this oil rig is a joke. Benteke will never ever be good enough because he has no movement and little skill.

Milner is obviously missed. He may not seem to do much but Citeh wanted to keep him and without him we've gone to shiite.

Of the players today, you'd keep who? Can, Ibe and Clyne.

Over the past few matches, i've seen 'lesser' teams do the simple things FAR FAR better. Whereas we muddle and dither and spunk any chance that we have.

All is not lost. Klopp will make differences. He will learn. Coutinho/firmino/lallana are the same. One is needed the others are not. 
Lovren and Sakho will never be good enough. At least Sakho was cheaper and to be fair better.
Again was Mignolet good enough?
We were bullied off the ball and dominated in midfield. And still were even when Lazzini went off!
Lucas kills the opposition so wtf was he trying to create?

This is not the worst season, and this is not a crap league. Lesser teams have more money which makes this year far more enjoyable. The best managers will make their teams rise to the top. Some will spend cashloads, some will play to their strengths. Many will fail.

Jurgen has only been here a few months. At first it seemed easy, but reality has come slamming down. This is a good thing.

Interesting times.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 03, 2016, 01:06:32 PM
Reason.

This result was on the cards today. We all saw it and I assume Jurgen will also learn from this.

We obviously need a few experienced players in January. A couple of old experienced hands to fill the gaps and give some stability will be needed. No huge money needs to be spent but i'll assume that Klopp knows a few contenders in the Bundesliga.

Smart move to make the bench so weak.

The stain of Bodgers was heavy here. Benteke has no movement, and the thought as some pundits say that we build our squad around this oil rig is a joke. Benteke will never ever be good enough because he has no movement and little skill.

Milner is obviously missed. He may not seem to do much but Citeh wanted to keep him and without him we've gone to shiite.

Of the players today, you'd keep who? Can, Ibe and Clyne.

Over the past few matches, i've seen 'lesser' teams do the simple things FAR FAR better. Whereas we muddle and dither and spunk any chance that we have.

All is not lost. Klopp will make differences. He will learn. Coutinho/firmino/lallana are the same. One is needed the others are not. 
Lovren and Sakho will never be good enough. At least Sakho was cheaper and to be fair better.
Again was Mignolet good enough?
We were bullied off the ball and dominated in midfield. And still were even when Lazzini went off!
Lucas kills the opposition so wtf was he trying to create?

This is not the worst season, and this is not a crap league. Lesser teams have more money which makes this year far more enjoyable. The best managers will make their teams rise to the top. Some will spend cashloads, some will play to their strengths. Many will fail.

Jurgen has only been here a few months. At first it seemed easy, but reality has come slamming down. This is a good thing.

Interesting times.

The getting bullied off the ball thing confuses me somewhat. We've bought a lot of players from other PL clubs, and apart from Firmino, the others that were 'imports' have been here long enough to know the score.

Are we actually being 'bullied' or is it that the desire in any situation is greater from an opposition player than it is from our's?

Why are we not getting those levels of desire and determination from our players?

Is the answer to find quality players and put them on the sort of basic pay levels that the Watfords, Leicesters, West Hams pay but with heavy incentivisation so they can earn 'Liverpool size' wages but only if they help the team to succeed?

As for Benteke, I think the thing is becoming obviously simple. Like with Carroll (shudders at the thought), when we signed him we were all trying hard to figure out how he fits in. We couldn't see it, but the longer he's here and the more he plays, you can see that there is nothing to figure out. He simply doesn't fit. There's no clever conundrum for us mere mortals to work out. Whoever decided we should sign him was/were just flat out wrong, and as for paying £32.5M, well, we've simply been had. Some fool fell for the oldest trick in the book again. Put a crazy fee on a player and you win both ways. Either you keep the player or you get over twice his real value for him. We fell for it again. Just like when Newcastle said 'you can have him for £35M' (hands over mouths to suppress the giggles).
If he was worth £32.5M why were Villa always struggling whilst he was there (he's not the sole reason, obviously).
Did we ever scout him. Watch how Villa were set to get the best from him. Watch him. Watch how he plays within a system, if there was one. Watch what was happening when he offered something, and when he offered nothing.

He's going to cost us the earth. No-one will give us our money back. We'll make a huge loss on his fee and he won't be offered the same anywhere else, so a huge payoff beckons too.

Those are the huge costs I keep going on about. It's not necessarily the transfer fee + wages of the incomer, it's the costs to get rid of players. Even if another club comes in and offers us X for a player, and even though they will be paying him from day one, we still have to pay a sum in settlement of the contract we gave him, even though that means he's getting paid twice, from two clubs for a period of time in effect - new club contract + settlement on time left on our contract, and therefore there's an overlapping period of time where he's paid twice.

It's this cost of getting rid of players that is going to mount up, which is why it will cost us a fortune to alter things, irrespective of whether Klopp finds 6 or 7 players all sub £10M. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 03, 2016, 04:05:50 PM
Benteke will never ever be good enough because he has no movement and little skill.

Lovren and Sakho will never be good enough.

totally agree.

And I have never been able to see what some other folk (some whose football opinions I respect) have raved about in Sakho.

I hope Klopp's heavy metal football is workable in England.  At the minute, we're more Val Doonigan.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 03, 2016, 04:13:50 PM
Those are the huge costs I keep going on about. It's not necessarily the transfer fee + wages of the incomer, it's the costs to get rid of players. Even if another club comes in and offers us X for a player, and even though they will be paying him from day one, we still have to pay a sum in settlement of the contract we gave him, even though that means he's getting paid twice, from two clubs for a period of time in effect - new club contract + settlement on time left on our contract, and therefore there's an overlapping period of time where he's paid twice.

It's this cost of getting rid of players that is going to mount up, which is why it will cost us a fortune to alter things, irrespective of whether Klopp finds 6 or 7 players all sub £10M.

nail on head.

being so far away from the top (maybe needing to bring in half a new team), we are in very deep and dangerous waters.  I have never known a Liverpool first team this poor, in over 40 years of watching them.

And as you say Tes, it is not merely about identifing 5 or 6 good players to bring in and transform us.....no, the financial issues are massive (re getting rid of the deadwood).

The top clubs need to seriously look at incentive based contracts.  At least half their wages should be based on performance based incentives.  imho   
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 03, 2016, 06:35:40 PM
I hope Klopp's heavy metal football is workable in England.  At the minute, we're more Val Doonigan.

It's not sustainable to keep up a really high pressure pressing game for an entire season with the pace the game is played at in England, and the pitches can be energy sapping too.

I think one thing that would help us concede fewer goals is to focus on eliminating the amount of headed goals and those from balls into the box. As we don't have the most mobile, or aerially dominating centre halves, the next best thing is to focus on stopping the balls into the box at source.
Simple adjustments like not giving away cheap free kicks in wide areas through impatient challenges or challenges when it's obviously not possible to win the ball. Making sure that the full back areas are covered if Clyne or Moreno venture forward.
Not giving away cheap corners by lazily putting the ball out for a corner, or putting in a challenge that results in a corner, when simply holding the attacker there rather than challenging and giving away a corner when it's obvious that the attacker has no real place to go. Simply hold him there or force him to turn and play the ball back - that requires awareness from a team mate so that when the ball is played back, the receiving opponent doesn't have time to put in a cross either.

These things don't depend on anything but concentration and patience and can easily be worked on in training. It doesn't require energy sapping racing around closing down either.

Another basic, is when the opponents cross the halfway line with the ball, our two centre halves need to make sure they've each picked someone up or are no more than an arm's length from their opponent. They're close enough at all times then to get in blocks, compete for headers (it allows them to have the jump on their opponent) and simple things like being goalside and slightly behind when facing the ball out in wide positions, again giving a jump on the opponent and goalside means a block is more likely. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 04, 2016, 03:30:06 PM
Klopp reveals Liverpool's Daniel Sturridge has missed more training sessions with minor niggles

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-reveals-liverpools-daniel-sturridge-10683942 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-reveals-liverpools-daniel-sturridge-10683942)

This is why I like Klopp, and find him a breath of fresh air: "It would be easy for me to say 'let’s try, we have got problems, we’re not scoring enough goals, bring him and see what will happen' but that’s where we have to be patient.".

He's not trying to keep himself flavour of the month by risking a goalscorer when we're struggling for goals.

It's good old common sense.

If the players listen, and absorb what he tells them, then I think we will do well under him.

He's on the side of the players and fans and the club, rather than his ego.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 04, 2016, 09:03:56 PM
It would be good to see Teixeira given a run out tomorrow against Stoke. Maybe he could give Klopp something to think about, as Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino have hardly set the league alight recently.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 06, 2016, 01:30:01 AM
It's not sustainable to keep up a really high pressure pressing game for an entire season with the pace the game is played at in England, and the pitches can be energy sapping too.

I think one thing that would help us concede fewer goals is to focus on eliminating the amount of headed goals and those from balls into the box. As we don't have the most mobile, or aerially dominating centre halves, the next best thing is to focus on stopping the balls into the box at source.
Simple adjustments like not giving away cheap free kicks in wide areas through impatient challenges or challenges when it's obviously not possible to win the ball. Making sure that the full back areas are covered if Clyne or Moreno venture forward.
Not giving away cheap corners by lazily putting the ball out for a corner, or putting in a challenge that results in a corner, when simply holding the attacker there rather than challenging and giving away a corner when it's obvious that the attacker has no real place to go. Simply hold him there or force him to turn and play the ball back - that requires awareness from a team mate so that when the ball is played back, the receiving opponent doesn't have time to put in a cross either.

These things don't depend on anything but concentration and patience and can easily be worked on in training. It doesn't require energy sapping racing around closing down either.

Another basic, is when the opponents cross the halfway line with the ball, our two centre halves need to make sure they've each picked someone up or are no more than an arm's length from their opponent. They're close enough at all times then to get in blocks, compete for headers (it allows them to have the jump on their opponent) and simple things like being goalside and slightly behind when facing the ball out in wide positions, again giving a jump on the opponent and goalside means a block is more likely.

I had a big reply typed yesterday, to your above post, Tes.

But then my browser froze, and all was lost  :(     Cue, cussing and kicking of chairs.    :( >:( :o :-\

A summary.

You make many excellent points.

The same types of things I would coach to my own team (years ago).

Get tight to opponents, stop the crosses, usher them down cul-de-sacs, force them onto their weaker foot, etc.

As you say, our centre-halves are not dominant in the air, and we are letting too many crosses into the box, in the first place.

But also, our own crosses and corners, are woeful.

Anyroads, I did point out in yesterday's post at the end - that altho we were woeful at West Ham - a part of that jaded-ness will have been linked to our opponents having 2 extra days to recover, and the fact we had to travel the length of the country.

Tonight, we have got a good result at Stoke.   The same Stoke that have, at home, turned over City, United and Chelsea, this season.

I do wish away goals counted double - instead of this stupid league cup rule whereby away goals only count double after extra time.







Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 06, 2016, 02:13:21 AM
This is why I like Klopp, and find him a breath of fresh air: "It would be easy for me to say 'let’s try, we have got problems, we’re not scoring enough goals, bring him and see what will happen' but that’s where we have to be patient.".

He's not trying to keep himself flavour of the month by risking a goalscorer when we're struggling for goals.

It's good old common sense.

If the players listen, and absorb what he tells them, then I think we will do well under him.

He's on the side of the players and fans and the club, rather than his ego.

yes, ego-wise, he is much more mature than someone like Rodgers.

He's also genuinely a far smarter person (as well as manager)  imho

He's honest, there's no BS.   He reacts like a fan.  He is secure enough in his convictions, to not follow the popular opinion of the day.  He is his own man.

And with his assistant feeding him input too, he will be getting a good grasp of our deficiencies, across these weeks and months.

What I especially like about him (as a manager) is that in the big games, even though we have a weaker 11 than say City, Chelsea or United, he has the tactics and know-how to win those big games.

He has a massive job on his hands, no doubt about it.  And he will have to have cutting edge scouting and knowledge of what is available in the market.  We cannot afford many more mistakes.  If we can give him the tools, and have patience, then I think he is smart enough to turn the ship around.  But he will have to adapt and find strategies (and players) to deal with the heavy metal football played by our own domestic teams (the stokes, watfords, west hams, newcastles, etc).

But I think he has the intelligence to adapt and grow.  And I think it was you, who said it a few days back, that Klopp will feel at home, at a club like Liverpool (as opposed to some big rich club).  If we have patience, and give him the tools, we could have some good times ahead.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 06, 2016, 09:48:19 AM
Quality posts above. I especially agree on the point of preventing crosses and easy corners which is all about concentration. I do, unlike Dude and Bart, however, believe Lovren and Sakho is good enough. In contrast I can see the emergence of a brilliant CB set up. It seems more and more as if Skrtel has been, at least to an extent, a hindrance to overcoming our defensive frailties. 

Just like under Rodgers last 18 months many of the goals we concede derives from sloppiness in midfield exposing our back-four. As was evident from last night against Stoke we're a completely different proposition to score against, even creating clear-cut chances, when the Team works hard. Lets build on that.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 06, 2016, 09:53:58 AM
I was very surprised by our win against Stoke. Even more so by how we contained their trio of talented players up front. Cred where it's due and I thought it was a great achievement to win that after losing two or our best performers so early in the game. Allen was massive and as long as he can perform at that level he will be arguably our best CM. Nice passing, holding the ball to help the team, working hard closing areas in the center and so on.

It was very pleasing to see the level of concentration and energy. We must build on that now regardless of injuries. I never liked the idea of taking the Cup lightly fielding weakened sides in the early rounds against lowly opposition but this time round I don't think there's much of a choice unless we want to run the risk of playing the U21's against the bottom and Mancs.

I didn't hear why Sakho was absent last night. Is it a setback or was it just precaution?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 07, 2016, 10:20:59 PM
I do wish away goals counted double - instead of this stupid league cup rule whereby away goals only count double after extra time.

It is a bizarre rule that I've never understood. An away goals rule rewards teams that try to be positive away from home, rather than simply park the bus. If after two sets of 90 minutes one team has been more positive then they should go through, rather than give the less enterprising team a further 30 minutes and then decide they then do count afterall.

It was an excellent result, especially on the back of the West Ham farce. Again we've paid a heavy price with injuries, but we've been fielding strong teams in all competitions, which seems to be missed in the rush to judgement over Klopp's training methods.

I have no problem if he fields a greatly weakened team tomorrow night because as it stands we're much nearer to Wembley in the League Cup than the FA Cup, so it's sensible, for one game, to give the League Cup priority in terms of trying to keep the few walking fit enough for that and the Manc and Arsenal games. It's not as though we exactly have a fully fit squad, and unusual circumstances sometimes require less than ideal actions, though it won't stop some morons from accusing Klopp of being disrespectful to the FA Cup competition. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 07, 2016, 10:28:39 PM
I didn't hear why Sakho was absent last night. Is it a setback or was it just precaution?

According to Physio Room, Sakho has a knee injury, with no return date. This is the problem I now have with Sakho. He simply suffers too many injuries to be relied upon. Hip, knee and hamstrings are regular injuries with him.

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php#c13 (http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php#c13)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 07, 2016, 10:35:41 PM
I never liked the idea of taking the Cup lightly fielding weakened sides in the early rounds against lowly opposition but this time round I don't think there's much of a choice unless we want to run the risk of playing the U21's against the bottom and Mancs.

Exactly, we simply have no choice. Klopp has already proven he takes every game we play seriously, but we're in an unprecedented situation. Some of the players he's likely to field have been playing regular first team football this season out on loan, so he's still going to be trying to field the strongest team possible, given the circumstances we find ourselves in.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 08, 2016, 04:31:28 PM
(http://www.thefa.com/~/media/upload/mario-gotze-celebrates-the-goal-that-won-the-2014-world-cup.ashx?w=620&h=349)

Jurgen Klopp is interested in reuniting with former Dortmund star Mario Gotze, who hasn’t been a first team regular at Bayern since he moved to Bavaria from Dortmund.

German publication Bild are reporting that Liverpool are interested in Mario Gotze, who isn’t likely to renew his deal at Bayern. The club is thought to be ‘happy’ to accept a £37million bid, should one arrive.

There are many incredible stories displaying Jurgen Klopp’s unmatched passion, but one sticks out. It was the day Mario Gotze decided to move to Bayern. Klopp said when he was told of the news, he sat back in his office and cried. He and his wife were meant to go out that night, either a movie premier or a dinner with others, and Klopp said he couldn’t go, he had to be sad. And his wife understood and let him stay behind.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 08, 2016, 04:42:59 PM
It is a bizarre rule that I've never understood. An away goals rule rewards teams that try to be positive away from home, rather than simply park the bus. If after two sets of 90 minutes one team has been more positive then they should go through, rather than give the less enterprising team a further 30 minutes and then decide they then do count afterall.

It was an excellent result, especially on the back of the West Ham farce. Again we've paid a heavy price with injuries, but we've been fielding strong teams in all competitions, which seems to be missed in the rush to judgement over Klopp's training methods.

I have no problem if he fields a greatly weakened team tomorrow night because as it stands we're much nearer to Wembley in the League Cup than the FA Cup, so it's sensible, for one game, to give the League Cup priority in terms of trying to keep the few walking fit enough for that and the Manc and Arsenal games. It's not as though we exactly have a fully fit squad, and unusual circumstances sometimes require less than ideal actions, though it won't stop some morons from accusing Klopp of being disrespectful to the FA Cup competition.

agreed...a bizarre away goals rule.....and very confusing for all.

yes, great result v Stoke - especially given that Stoke had beaten City, Utd and Chelsea on that ground.

It indicates a manager who can adapt and learn.   Like Fergie learning to adapt to English football (when he left Aberdeen).  Klopp is a very intelligent man.  I am delighted that we have him at Anfield.  He was a big fish.  Our owners did well to get him.

Like you, I see no alternative but to fielding a weakened side tonight.  It may mean an upset.   Or it may mean several young players grabbing an opportunity to cement their futures at Anfield, under Klopp.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on January 10, 2016, 06:00:05 PM
So it seems our patience with Sturridge has come to an end...we're asking for 25 mil and if anyone came anywhere near that i'd say we grab it...
I assume it's mainly injuries...but perhaps its a psychological thing...that he can only start playing at a big club on 200 k a week...
That he is up for transfer means that Klopp has looked into Daniels eyes and seen the amount of desire that is in there...
Non existent.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 10, 2016, 06:58:09 PM
So it seems our patience with Sturridge has come to an end...we're asking for 25 mil and if anyone came anywhere near that i'd say we grab it...
I assume it's mainly injuries...but perhaps its a psychological thing...that he can only start playing at a big club on 200 k a week...
That he is up for transfer means that Klopp has looked into Daniels eyes and seen the amount of desire that is in there...
Non existent.

But the thing is Bart, who in their right minds would pay 25 million for someone who's always injured.

More likely 10 to 15 million will be the range.

And even more troublesome, who could afford his massive weekly wages.

The Mirror says his new contract, signed in October 2014, put him on 150 grand per week.  And the contract runs til 2019.

My suspicion is that we are stuck with him - unless we pay him to leave early.  Nobody will want him, even if they could afford him.





Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 10, 2016, 11:08:33 PM
But the thing is Bart, who in their right minds would pay 25 million for someone who's always injured.

More likely 10 to 15 million will be the range.

And even more troublesome, who could afford his massive weekly wages.

The Mirror says his new contract, signed in October 2014, put him on 150 grand per week.  And the contract runs til 2019.

My suspicion is that we are stuck with him - unless we pay him to leave early.  Nobody will want him, even if they could afford him.

We have the most expensive Dutch elm wood in the league.

Hunter and Fallows at City (they were there when Mansour first arrived and Mark Hughes was boss, as an idea of the timeline) - assembled a squad, mostly of average PL players, well overpaying for most of them.

Hunter and Fallows at Liverpool - assembled a squad, mostly..................lightning does strike twice
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 10, 2016, 11:28:43 PM
Danny Ward's been recalled from his loan at Aberdeen:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3393081/Liverpool-recall-goalkeeper-Danny-Ward-Aberdeen-loan-spell-pressure-rises-Simon-Mignolet-Adam-Bogdan.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3393081/Liverpool-recall-goalkeeper-Danny-Ward-Aberdeen-loan-spell-pressure-rises-Simon-Mignolet-Adam-Bogdan.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)

I think that tells us everything  about what Klopp thinks of Bogdan, at least.

At least Ward has been playing regular first team football, so should be a step up on Bogdan's rustiness should Klopp decide to play him against Exeter in the replay.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on January 11, 2016, 06:11:58 PM
But the thing is Bart, who in their right minds would pay 25 million for someone who's always injured.

More likely 10 to 15 million will be the range.


Agreed, Dude. Maybe it's mind games to get Sturridge wanting to play again. Nothing else seems to have worked.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 11, 2016, 06:41:40 PM
Agreed, Dude. Maybe it's mind games to get Sturridge wanting to play again. Nothing else seems to have worked.

I was thinking the exact same thing, Bart. 

One last ditch effort - mind games, to get the lad focussed.

Since Suarez left,  Sturridge seems to be far more injury prone.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 11, 2016, 06:45:01 PM
We have the most expensive Dutch elm wood in the league.

Hunter and Fallows at City (they were there when Mansour first arrived and Mark Hughes was boss, as an idea of the timeline) - assembled a squad, mostly of average PL players, well overpaying for most of them.

Hunter and Fallows at Liverpool - assembled a squad, mostly..................lightning does strike twice

very good point, Tes.

It's no coincidence that the club has probably never had a weaker first eleven, or squad, these past 40 years.

You know me, I have repeatedly questioned, over the years, why Hunter is our chief scout.  Fallows too seems very weak.

They would never have even made my interview shortlist, farless been awarded the positions.

I am guessing that the yanks, or their yankee assistants, made these hands on appointments....or maybe our chief exec.

I miss Rick Parry.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 11, 2016, 06:48:40 PM
Danny Ward's been recalled from his loan at Aberdeen:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3393081/Liverpool-recall-goalkeeper-Danny-Ward-Aberdeen-loan-spell-pressure-rises-Simon-Mignolet-Adam-Bogdan.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3393081/Liverpool-recall-goalkeeper-Danny-Ward-Aberdeen-loan-spell-pressure-rises-Simon-Mignolet-Adam-Bogdan.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)

I think that tells us everything  about what Klopp thinks of Bogdan, at least.

At least Ward has been playing regular first team football, so should be a step up on Bogdan's rustiness should Klopp decide to play him against Exeter in the replay.

one wonders why they are only spotting Bogdan's goalkeeping problems now.

or, I wonder, is he just incapable to handling the big match pressure (i.e. a mental thing).

Ward by all accounts impressed at Aberdeen....playing first team football.  Might have been better t let him stay there the rest of the season and get more experience - as opposed to having him return and merely sit on our bench. 

But it indicates our immediate difficulties and - as you say - how little our boss rates Bogdan.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 11, 2016, 10:03:18 PM
one wonders why they are only spotting Bogdan's goalkeeping problems now.

or, I wonder, is he just incapable to handling the big match pressure (i.e. a mental thing).

Ward by all accounts impressed at Aberdeen....playing first team football.  Might have been better t let him stay there the rest of the season and get more experience - as opposed to having him return and merely sit on our bench. 

But it indicates our immediate difficulties and - as you say - how little our boss rates Bogdan.

I think he had no choice. Mignolet couldn't be motivated looking over his shoulder and only seeing Butterfingers there. Ward, having proven himself as a reasonably capable keeper whilst out on loan each time, will help keep Mignolet on his toes more so than Bogdan.
Each time Ward has stepped up a level he's done well.

If Mignolet does slip up again he may find himself 'rested' and Ward given the chance to prove himself. He's got the Arsenal and Manc games before the League Cup semi and FA Cup replay. A slip in either of those and I think Klopp will go with Ward for the cup games.

Bogdan wasn't even Bolton's first choice keeper last season. The only two reasons I can think of why those who decide these things did so - 1. He was a free transfer. 2. He had a good game against us in the FA Cup last season (I think it was). So the price was right and Hunter and Rodgers had both scouted him for all of 90 minutes.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 11, 2016, 10:06:00 PM
Since Suarez left,  Sturridge seems to be far more injury prone.

I've been wondering about that over the last season and a half. Granted, he had some injury problems whilst Suarez was here, but nothing as prolonged or regular. It's probably just coincidence, but it's hard not to at least wonder.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 13, 2016, 04:18:28 PM
I think he had no choice. Mignolet couldn't be motivated looking over his shoulder and only seeing Butterfingers there. Ward, having proven himself as a reasonably capable keeper whilst out on loan each time, will help keep Mignolet on his toes more so than Bogdan.
Each time Ward has stepped up a level he's done well.

If Mignolet does slip up again he may find himself 'rested' and Ward given the chance to prove himself. He's got the Arsenal and Manc games before the League Cup semi and FA Cup replay. A slip in either of those and I think Klopp will go with Ward for the cup games.

Bogdan wasn't even Bolton's first choice keeper last season. The only two reasons I can think of why those who decide these things did so - 1. He was a free transfer. 2. He had a good game against us in the FA Cup last season (I think it was). So the price was right and Hunter and Rodgers had both scouted him for all of 90 minutes.

 :)

yes, we have had an obscure scouting system in recent years.

in many cases, I think a roll of a dice would have given us better transfer results.

like you, I think if Mignolet makes a slip-up, Ward will be given an opportunity.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 13, 2016, 08:00:08 PM
Not looking forward to tonight. I think Arsenal will win quite comfortably. For me they are the best team in england and have the best offensive unit by far in the country. As I used to live in London for over 20 years and went to school with a lot of gunners, I hate losing to that mob.

unlike our last 4 or 5 games, where it's been physical, up and at em football, Arsenal will play the right way......we play well when we face this type of cultured opposition.

and with hendo and milner in there - we should have a relatively solid midfield.

now of course, should we fall behind, how do we chase a game (milner does not inspire in that scenario).

Essentially, our inability to score goals will always be hard to work around.

Just wish we had Coutinho available.   Him and his Brazilian mate, Firmino, could excel in this type of game.

If we can somehow score a goal or two tonight, I am hopeful.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on January 13, 2016, 08:53:49 PM
The best and worst of Liverpool on display.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 13, 2016, 09:30:21 PM
we could have beat out of sight after the first half hour.

their first two goals beat us at the near post.....never good.

sakho and toure, extremely weak central defence too.

firmino, what a player in the making.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 13, 2016, 10:48:42 PM
The best and worst of Liverpool on display.

Perfect summary.

Priority in the Summer has to be a goalkeeper and a centre half.

Surprisingly, unless there's an absolute bargain available, I'd leave the attackers alone. Let's see how the likes of Ibe, Origi, Ings, Firmino, Coutinho and Lallana develop together, given some stability of selection next season.

Whether to choose a defensive midfielder or a creative/goalscoring midfielder as the third 1st 11 addition is more difficult.

I'd like to see no more than 3 first eleven additions despite the obvious need for multiple upgrades. Mass recruitment hasn't worked, so let's try a more stable approach. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on January 14, 2016, 06:32:40 AM
My root cause analysis report - Mignolet  >:(
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 14, 2016, 10:44:09 PM
My root cause analysis report - Mignolet  >:(

Makes me wonder why they're extending his contract. As Cech has shown for Arsenal this season, a top keeper is as valuable as a top striker, and an absolute essential in order to be successful over more than one flash in the pan season.

And I'll also add to top class goalkeeping coach to my wishlist. Achterberg, as Klopp said recently, may be incredibly hardworking, but even as that may be, it doesn't make him particular good at his job.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 14, 2016, 10:57:09 PM
Xavi Valero's free at the moment: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/xavi-valero/profil/trainer/4719 (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/xavi-valero/profil/trainer/4719)

Jurgen make the call.

As a German it should be easy for you to sack a Dutchman.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 15, 2016, 10:04:01 AM
Incredible we didn't win that one. Again we perform well and get decent result against a top side. As per usual at Anfield, Arsenal should consider themselves very lucky to be in the game at half time. I really though we were unfortunate for their first with Sakho getting dazed by the collision with Giroud. Of course Mignolet should've saved it but...

I also believe a genuine captain, a leader who can win us games. For all his supposedly hard work Henderson have only won us one game and that was against Spurs more than two years ago. I re-state the fact this club have never had such an average captain. At least not post-Shankly era.

Lallana is another sad chapter. He just doesn't have it. He had an absolutely fantastic opportunity to win us a penalty against Mertesacker in 2nd half but he just doesn't carry the appropriate awareness to grasp the situation. Overall a very average performance.

Although I like Ibe's attitude and ability to run with the ball between the half-way line and opponents box his end-product is nothing short of absolutely abysmal. He's only young an'all but haven't we heard that one to death over the years?

I am pretty much in Tes corner though we shouldn't go for the massive overhaul in one transfer window although this squad would certainly need it. We need stronger and better CM's. If we can get at least one high-profile midfielder in we should be able to identify slow but steady progression next season. (Always next season as a Liverpool supporter.  :) ).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 15, 2016, 01:44:31 PM
(http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/14B7/production/_85930350_klopp_getty_body.jpg)

“I don’t like winning with 80% possession,”   Jurgen Klopp said in 2013.

“Sorry, that is not enough for me. That’s not my sport. Fighting football, not serenity football, that is what I like."

"What we call in German ‘English’: rainy day, heavy pitch, 5-5, everybody is dirty in the face.”

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 16, 2016, 08:38:09 AM

Although I like Ibe's attitude and ability to run with the ball between the half-way line and opponents box his end-product is nothing short of absolutely abysmal. He's only young an'all but haven't we heard that one to death over the years?


If our stats/technical whateverheis wants to do something useful, find footage of players like John Robertson, Dave Thomas and our own Steve Heighway for Ibe to study.

Most so-called wingers seem to be weak on end product and the decision making that is vital to it.

Quick, but...........................
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 16, 2016, 08:54:22 AM
Klopp snubbed United

Jurgen Klopp admits Sir Alex Ferguson sounded him out about taking over at Old Trafford before he retired in 2013 and says he turned down Fergie’s proposal to go on United’s shortlist out of loyalty to Dortmund, writes MirrorFootball's David Anderson.

“Yeah, we spoke,” said the Liverpool boss. “It was a big honour for me, the whole talk, to be honest.  But in life timing is always important and that was a time I could not leave Dortmund. That was it."

“It wasn’t like this where you say ‘come in March or May’. You are in April and you are in the middle of the planning for next season.  You have this player and this player and this player coming because you are there, but then you are not there anymore. That doesn’t work. Not in my life."

“I didn’t hear about a real offer but, if there was, I could not have done it. I first had to finish the job with Dortmund and then think about other things. Maybe that is not smart, but that is my way.”


wow, Jurgen Klopp is a real diamond.   Very impressive decency, and loyalty.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 16, 2016, 11:23:37 AM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/jurgen-klopps-first-100-days-7187483#rlabs=4%20rt$sitewide%20p$10 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/jurgen-klopps-first-100-days-7187483#rlabs=4%20rt$sitewide%20p$10)

Very good article by our Jim (Boardman) about Klopp's first 100 days at Anfield.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 16, 2016, 11:30:10 AM
I also believe a genuine captain, a leader who can win us games. For all his supposedly hard work Henderson have only won us one game and that was against Spurs more than two years ago. I re-state the fact this club have never had such an average captain. At least not post-Shankly era.

Lallana is another sad chapter. He just doesn't have it.

Although I like Ibe's attitude and ability to run with the ball between the half-way line and opponents box his end-product is nothing short of absolutely abysmal. He's only young an'all but haven't we heard that one to death over the years?

totally agree Martin re Lallana and Ibe. 

I have said several times this season, that Lallana has to prove himself this season, or else be sold.

Ibe - I have been shouting at the screen many times.......the lad needs to take far fewer touches and have some end product.   When someone takes too many touches, it indicates either they are a greedy player and/or they just are not aware (before the ball arrives) of the possibilities around them.

Ibe is young, and will no doubt improve.

I don't agree with you on Henderson.   Liverpool are much weaker when he is not in the team.  He would be one of my first names on our teamsheet.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 16, 2016, 11:33:59 AM
If our stats/technical whateverheis wants to do something useful, find footage of players like John Robertson, Dave Thomas and our own Steve Heighway for Ibe to study.

Most so-called wingers seem to be weak on end product and the decision making that is vital to it.

Quick, but...........................

agreed, Tes.

the lad needs more awareness, less touches, and more end product.

I'd tell him to get his head up, and be aware of what is around him, before the ball arrives.

With awareness, a one-touch defence-splitting pass is sometimes all that is needed.   Too many touches, and all the time that that involves, allows the opposition to regroup.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 17, 2016, 04:07:14 PM
We need a captain, we need to sell Lallana, we need to get rid of Firmino, we need to sign players that see Can demoted to the bench. This is easily the worst Liverpool side I have ever seen. Henderson will once more recieve glowin critic despite being fukcing worthless. This is like the 6th fukcing game this season I see the totally worthless and inept Lallana. Henderson "oh, he's working so hard" just isn't a captain. No drive, no quality no nothing. Can, also works hard but really is a Championship player in terms of quality. Firmino. Ah, can't be arsed.

It'll be 2-3 years until we have gotten rid of the pile of crap that is the current Liverpool squad.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on January 17, 2016, 04:12:16 PM
Yet again we can't defend from set pieces and bloody useless up front.

4 defenders on Fellaini yet no one marking Rooney. Sakho and Lucas were very good though.

If Mignolet is going to be our No.1 for the next 3 years we'll never win anything or ever get into the top 4. If he was positioned right he could have a) swept up that Fellaini header and b) be a bigger presence to block Rooney's shot.

Firmino was poor as was Lallana. Milner was ineffective. Henderson was full of high energy but lacked the end product. I thought Can was good 1st half but was very ineffective about from that shot as the game went on. Allen should have replaced him. Benteke should have come on sooner and Ibe was a wasted sub he did nothing.

We have a lot wrong at the moment and it's not going to get any better soon.

I have a feeling though we haven't seen the last of the Mancs this season though. Got a feeling we'll play them in the fa or europa cup.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 17, 2016, 04:22:11 PM
smash and grab raid by United.

If we had a decent striker, or midfielders that score the occasional goal, we would have scored two or three today.

Continho could have made all the difference today.

I wouldn't be too despondent after today's result.  We were by far the better side.  We just had no cutting edge.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on January 17, 2016, 04:26:36 PM
smash and grab raid by United.

If we had a decent striker, or midfielders that score the occasional goal, we would have scored two or three today.

Continho could have made all the difference today.

I wouldn't be too despondent after today's result.  We were by far the better side.  We just had no cutting edge.

I wouldn't say we we were by far the better side at all. We were quite average.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 17, 2016, 04:43:07 PM
I wouldn't say we we were by far the better side at all. We were quite average.

from memory, United had one strike on goal.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 17, 2016, 04:46:10 PM
I think we have to write off this season as a fact finding one for Klopp and his assistants. Understanding the PL, assessing what he has on the playing staff, their suitability for what he believes is required etc, etc and hope we can collect a trophy along the way.

We won't finish 4th or higher. I think that is almost fact. Even with the topsy turvy league we're seeing this season, we don't have what's required to excel.

Our best chance of both winning a trophy and obtaining a CL place may well be through the least liked and least glamourous competition. For the time being, it may well be the competition where Klopp and his assistants feel the most suited to succeed.

For now we need to focus on stopping supply from any form into the box and maybe alter things to play to Benteke's strengths, as he's the only real striker we seem to have on anything approaching a regular basis.

It's about making the most of what we have now until the playing staff can be changed to ones more suited to how Klopp would prefer to approach things.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 17, 2016, 04:51:26 PM
I think we have to write off this season as a fact finding one for Klopp and his assistants.

Our best chance of both winning a trophy and obtaining a CL place may well be through the least liked and least glamourous competition. For the time being, it may well be the competition where Klopp and his assistants feel the most suited to succeed.

It's about making the most of what we have now until the playing staff can be changed

yes, I think Jurgen will use the season as a learning curve.  I believe it took him 3 or so years to sort Dortmund out. 

The League Cup and UEFA Cup will now be firmly in his sights.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 17, 2016, 04:54:53 PM
Yet again we can't defend from set pieces and bloody useless up front.

No we can't but if you'd told me before the game they would only have one shot on goal all game I'd bitter your arm off. Says a lot our main problem lie at the other end of the pitch with too many average offensive players in our team. Toure and Sakho was monstrous today, faultless throughout. Yet I see Sakho only getting a 5 rating in Daily Express.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 17, 2016, 04:58:31 PM
I think we have to write off this season as a fact finding one for Klopp and his assistants. Understanding the PL, assessing what he has on the playing staff, their suitability for what he believes is required etc, etc and hope we can collect a trophy along the way.

We won't finish 4th or higher. I think that is almost fact. Even with the topsy turvy league we're seeing this season, we don't have what's required to excel.

Our best chance of both winning a trophy and obtaining a CL place may well be through the least liked and least glamourous competition. For the time being, it may well be the competition where Klopp and his assistants feel the most suited to succeed.

For now we need to focus on stopping supply from any form into the box and maybe alter things to play to Benteke's strengths, as he's the only real striker we seem to have on anything approaching a regular basis.

It's about making the most of what we have now until the playing staff can be changed to ones more suited to how Klopp would prefer to approach things.

Exactly! Very well put. I'd say the remaining 16 leaguegames represent a good opportunity to develop and gel the team, nothing more, nothing less. We should now focus on the cups meaning Klopp shold take his chances and field a strong side against Exeter and rest players against Norwich.

Still, I maintain, we desperately need a captain, a physical and mental presence that can spur the team on and win us games. Something Henderson have proven uncapable of during his 3 and a half seasons with us.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 17, 2016, 05:02:34 PM
our main problem lie at the other end of the pitch with too many average offensive players in our team.

exactly

nail on head.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 17, 2016, 05:18:20 PM
No matter what our problems are they won't change until we change the way we recruit and the personnel involved in the process.

Since FSG have been here, our success rate in buying the right player and them proving to be a success, as they need to be, has been absolutely dire.

First Comolli, then a committee, both have failed. What we haven't had is the manager being in ultimate charge of how and who we recruit.

If Klopp doesn't want the neccessary total hands on in the process, which is fine and his way probably, then he appoints someone he trusts to put in place the required structures and personnel, but if he leaves it to the current shambolic setup he and us will very quickly end up disappointed.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on January 17, 2016, 05:38:06 PM
smash and grab raid by United.

If we had a decent striker, or midfielders that score the occasional goal, we would have scored two or three today.

Continho could have made all the difference today.

I wouldn't be too despondent after today's result.  We were by far the better side.  We just had no cutting edge.

Agreed...someone decent in strike and in goal would do wonders...Can is our next captain, Milner and Hendo also rans and Lallana a waste of space.
I actually thought we looked more solid in defence today...better than we have done in a long while.
Rooney scored a beautiful goal. It happens.
If we had a decent finisher we would have been 3/4 up but the time Rooney scored.
Not Klopps fault.
We were much the better side.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 17, 2016, 05:43:55 PM
Agreed...someone decent in strike and in goal would do wonders...Can is our next captain, Milner and Hendo also rans and Lallana a waste of space.
I actually thought we looked more solid in defence today...better than we have done in a long while.
Rooney scored a beautiful goal. It happens.
If we had a decent finisher we would have been 3/4 up but the time Rooney scored.
Not Klopps fault.
We were much the better side.

exactly.

with a few personnel tweaks, and more potent offensive players, we would have hammered United today.

agreed re lalahana - not up to the level needed.   And I think City had it right re Milner...a good sub to bring on.

I was shouting again today at the screen - for Ibe to fecking release the ball sooner.....endless touches, that take him nowhere, and allow United to regroup.  There has to be end product.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 17, 2016, 06:35:26 PM
If we had a decent finisher we would have been 3/4 up but the time Rooney scored.
Not Klopps fault.
We were much the better side.

Which is why I say it isn't the whole world we lost. Especially if you buy Tes argument the season's a write off from now on and focus should be on implementing Klopp's footy.

Sakho was outstanding today. Back to his best.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 17, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
Sakho was outstanding today. Back to his best.

I think the secret to Sakho, or rather getting the best from him, is to try and find a way to reduce his injuries. His nightmare performances mostly seem to come in the first 1-3 games after injury. After that period he's back on top of his game much more often than not.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 17, 2016, 06:52:55 PM
I think the secret to Sakho, or rather getting the best from him, is to try and find a way to reduce his injuries. His nightmare performances mostly seem to come in the first 1-3 games after injury. After that period he's back on top of his game much more often than not.

Yeapp, I noticed exactly the same thing,
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 17, 2016, 07:45:07 PM
if Sakho didn't have to head or pass the ball, he would be world class.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 17, 2016, 07:47:44 PM
Brendan says:  "When there is a list of players and the player that you want isn't on that list, you have to take someone. You can't have no players."

"If you haven't got a left back, if the left back that you want, for whatever reason, you can't bring in, if there is a list of three or four, you are having to take the best on that group. It's the model. It's about the young player."

"The ownership group, as I say they are a wonderful group of people, but FSG have a way of working and they want to bring in young players and look to see them develop and move on."


confirmation, if needed, that FSG's model is pretty much that of a nursery club.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 17, 2016, 09:51:14 PM
Brendan says:  "When there is a list of players and the player that you want isn't on that list, you have to take someone. You can't have no players."

"If you haven't got a left back, if the left back that you want, for whatever reason, you can't bring in, if there is a list of three or four, you are having to take the best on that group. It's the model. It's about the young player."

"The ownership group, as I say they are a wonderful group of people, but FSG have a way of working and they want to bring in young players and look to see them develop and move on."


confirmation, if needed, that FSG's model is pretty much that of a nursery club.

So if we win trophies that's just a lucky bonus.

Americans, they have to ruin sport with their capitalism.

I don't mind young players moving on once we've developed them and had their best years, but the idea of developing them and moving them on as they approach their peak, for however big a profit is just plain wrong.

Of course it's too much to expect an American hedge fund manager to have any sort of positive emotion about a sport they didn't invent bastardise.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 18, 2016, 12:06:09 AM
So if we win trophies that's just a lucky bonus.

Americans, they have to ruin sport with their capitalism.

I don't mind young players moving on once we've developed them and had their best years, but the idea of developing them and moving them on as they approach their peak, for however big a profit is just plain wrong.

Of course it's too much to expect an American hedge fund manager to have any sort of positive emotion about a sport they didn't invent bastardise.

exactly.

to be honest, I would probably have preferred a middle eastern entity to buy the club.

Americans and sport (i.e. the sport you and me both grew up loving) are like oil and water.

their notion of franchises, and moving a club to a different city, and continually renaming a stadium (after it's latest sponsor) is abhorrent to me.

They bastardise everything they touch.  Always about money.  For our generation, the local club was not a money-making enterprise.   Instead, it was a passion.   
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 18, 2016, 05:07:10 PM
exactly.

to be honest, I would probably have preferred a middle eastern entity to buy the club.

Americans and sport (i.e. the sport you and me both grew up loving) are like oil and water.

their notion of franchises, and moving a club to a different city, and continually renaming a stadium (after it's latest sponsor) is abhorrent to me.

They bastardise everything they touch.  Always about money.  For our generation, the local club was not a money-making enterprise.   Instead, it was a passion.

My feelings exactly, Dude.

What I don't understand about the model of buying a player, developing him and then selling him on at an increased price is that you can only do that for so long.
Players won't want to sign for clubs that aren't successful and if you keep selling your best or most valuable players you won't be successful. Also, if they keep selling their most valuable assets, the overall value of the asset of Liverpool Football Club won't increase in value.

The only way to have any hope of making money is to be successful. The higher up the league you finish, the greater the prize money. Qualifying every year for the CL and keep reaching the latter stages, with the occasional final thrown in, the more money you make. The more successful the club the more and greater value sponsorship and partnership deals you can gain. The more successful the club the more fans you gain in emerging economies and your income grows from there. That again will bring increased sponsorship and partnerships as companies gain more exposure by being associated with the club and gaining access to the fans.
As all the income streams grow, the asset value of the club keeps rising.

However, none of that can be achieved by selling your most valuable player. The way this season is going it will be the second season running we've finished lower than the previous season, having sold our most valuable player at the end of that season. 

We as fans want footballing success, they want financial success, but the latter will only follow the former over any sort of sustained period. They only have to look at us during our heyday, and even more so the Mancs.
They could even look at Chelsea and City. They've only been able to grow their 'business' on the back of footballing success.

They need to keep their fingers out of the footballing side. They're the experts on the money side, they need to leave the football side to the football expert(s) and give them what is required to succeed, not set them up for failure through their ignorance of non-American 'sport' and by trying to transplant and graft 'American sports' methods onto a non-American sport.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 18, 2016, 06:23:10 PM
Twitter's gone into meltdown following our latest goalkeeper signing.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 19, 2016, 03:44:27 PM
Twitter's gone into meltdown following our latest goalkeeper signing.

very hard to understand his new contract.

e.g. if we had De Gea, and United had our lad, we'd probably have hammered Utd on Sunday.

a top keeper wins you 10 extra points each year.   Arsenal are finding that with Cech.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 19, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
We as fans want footballing success, they want financial success, but the latter will only follow the former over any sort of sustained period.

They could even look at Chelsea and City. They've only been able to grow their 'business' on the back of footballing success.

They need to keep their fingers out of the footballing side. They're the experts on the money side, they need to leave the football side to the football expert(s) and give them what is required to succeed, not set them up for failure through their ignorance of non-American 'sport' and by trying to transplant and graft 'American sports' methods onto a non-American sport.

absolutely.

a smart man knows his limitations.

unfortunately, Americans are so arrogant, that taking a back seat is an alien concept to them.

As you say, be successful on the pitch, and the financial rewards will follow, automatically.

FSG's arrogance, entering a game, and a country, they know little-to-nothing about, and dictating their moneyball yarns, is ridiculous.

If we had a decent journalist in the region, they should be asking FSG some honest and confrontational questions.   FSG are getting far too easy a ride.  The TC committee, and the nursery strategy, has failed the club abysmally.   They need to be confronted on the issue. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 21, 2016, 12:12:05 AM
If we had a decent journalist in the region, they should be asking FSG some honest and confrontational questions.   FSG are getting far too easy a ride.  The TC committee, and the nursery strategy, has failed the club abysmally.   They need to be confronted on the issue.

The transfer committee and Rodgers have taken all the flack while the owners, who's dumb idea this is and on who's insistence this is happening, are sitting on the other side of the Atlantic (may as well be the world), getting away scott free.

Their accredited part in the wasting of 100s of £M should be brought to the fore and their share of the blame firmly apportioned where it belongs.

Klopp's come out in the last day or so and said he has the final say etc, but so did Rodgers and Ayre. I'm not saying I don't believe Klopp, but sometimes people aren't in the position to speak the absolute truth.

Hopefully Klopp's CV and the evidence of the past waste of funds will have given the required weight to the argument for the manager to have total say in all transfer dealings and the Americans have seen the light as far as doing things a different way, starting with Klopp.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 21, 2016, 01:20:11 PM
The transfer committee and Rodgers have taken all the flack while the owners, who's dumb idea this is and on who's insistence this is happening, are sitting on the other side of the Atlantic (may as well be the world), getting away scott free.

Their accredited part in the wasting of 100s of £M should be brought to the fore and their share of the blame firmly apportioned where it belongs.

Klopp's come out in the last day or so and said he has the final say etc, but so did Rodgers and Ayre. I'm not saying I don't believe Klopp, but sometimes people aren't in the position to speak the absolute truth.

Hopefully Klopp's CV and the evidence of the past waste of funds will have given the required weight to the argument for the manager to have total say in all transfer dealings and the Americans have seen the light as far as doing things a different way, starting with Klopp.

absolutely - sometimes people are not in a position to speak the absolute truth.

As you say, our owners are able to sit on the far side of the atlantic, and take no flack at all for their nutty strategies - moneyball, nursery club, buy young and cheap/sell on, etc.

FSG, like any big business, focus on ultra-positive press releases, all the media output is honed and tweaked.  Nothing left to chance.

Well, it is about time, a few local journalists started confronting them on their nutty strategies, and when are they going to begin taking a backseat on football issues.

Having said all that - FSG will be aware of what goes on in our media (even if they choose to pretend not to).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 23, 2016, 01:45:37 PM
Shocking first half performance. Our central midfield pathetic once more. I tell you folk we will never, NEVER, finish in the top 4 with such weak and poor players like Can and Henderson. They are simply not good enough. Their acting on Norwich's 2nd alone should disqualify them from ever playing in a red shirt again

Again, we play without a captain. A highly average player around whom a weird discourse have developed for no reason. Henderson is by far the worst and most pathetic this club's ever had. With him in the team we'll be extremly happy to finish above 9th. Can, the same. Not good enough. Milner.

Klopp got this so wrong. Should've started Allen.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 23, 2016, 04:31:48 PM
Just home from getting my annual blood tests done, at the clinic down by the ocean.   Third January in a row, I have bought myself blood tests.  Ah, the fun of hitting 50 years of age.

Got back to see the final scoreline.  Wow.

Norwich have been in a run of good form at Carrow Road.   Of their last 5 home games, they hey had won 3, and drew two (including a draw with Arsenal).   So I reckoned a point today was all we might hope for.

I have not seen the game, obviously, but winning there is a great result.  Clearly, our defending is woeful, as usual.  Our newly contracted keeper, again, appears to be very ordinary.  Oh for a top keeper.  Someone like Cech would have given us many more additional points this season.

I don't agree Martin re Can and Henderson.  I think those two lads are our best midfielders (amongst a sorry bunch).

Lahana is deadwood (despite his late goal).  Nowhere near good enough.  Benteke has no first touch - or second touch - or even third touch.  And he appears to be continually running in treacle.  Allen, no.   Those would be my first three P45s this summer.   Sturridge would also be shown the door.   

I have been craving to say this for 2 months now - but held back, lest I be laughed out of the forum.  But I foresee Firminho being a number 9 - or a number 10.  Like Thierry Henry, he could easily be converted into a top striker.  Or failing that, play in the old number 10 role (a little behind the main striker).   Number 10 is the easier position for him.  But that lad has talent.  And he could be converted into a number 9.

In defence - re changes in the summer.  Where do you start.  Sakho nowhere near good enough in my book - too many last ditch tackles.  Too many suicide passes.  Too weak defending crosses and corners.   Moreno needs to be better at defending.  Skrtel not strong, or smart enough, enough in central defence.  Mignolet weak.

I am positive for the future.  Klopp is working wonders with half a team of deadwood. Imagine what he could do with a decent set of players.

I think if we could add this new Brazilian lad, Teixeira, to Firminho and Countinho....wow, we could have something really special.    Very few could stop them.   

Hell, with a great attack, a lot of our defensive woes would seem less critical. 
 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on January 23, 2016, 06:30:54 PM
Wow...what a game...just think what we'd be like if we could defend...
Top priority is a goalkeeper. Mignolet will never be good enough and quite why he was given a 5 year contract is just bizarre. He couldn't stop a pig in a passage and that's what undermines our defence.
Toure wont be there next season and i'm pretty sure Klopp will bring in a few additions to keep competition keen.
When Klopp took over Dortmund he got rid of 17 players and i have a feeling he'll do the same to the dead wood here. But that'll be in the summer.
Offensively we show great signs of improvement under Klopp. He can change things and that's always good to see. Ibe didnt work in the first half and so lallana came on and completely changed the game. 2-1 down he was instrumental in bringing us back into the game and then scoring the winner.
Firmino up front and if we get Texeira, combined with coutinho would mean that the team would be a handful. This might then take some of the pressure off the defence.
2 key places need to be filled in January. Hopefully Texeira makes our attack click. Mignolet though might make all the difference in our search for trophies or not.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 23, 2016, 10:41:07 PM
(http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i/?img=/photo/2016/0123/r47345_1296x729_16-9.jpg&w=738&site=espnfc)

the media is reporting that Klopp had his glasses broken by Benteke in the celebrations.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 23, 2016, 10:47:46 PM
Top priority is a goalkeeper. Mignolet will never be good enough and quite why he was given a 5 year contract is just bizarre. He couldn't stop a pig in a passage and that's what undermines our defence.

When Klopp took over Dortmund he got rid of 17 players and i have a feeling he'll do the same to the dead wood here.

Firmino up front and if we get Texeira, combined with coutinho would mean that the team would be a handful. Hopefully Texeira makes our attack click.

agreed.

I reckon a triple whammy combo, of the three Brazilians (B, C & T), could be a mouth-watering prospect for next season.

Like you, I find the new Mignolet contract bizarre.   Is there a single person around Liverpool who knows WTF is going on, on that issue.

Good point re 17 getting shown the door at Dortmund.  Klopp is a man of action.  He will get what he wants.  he will not be scared to make changes.

I think it is best we see all these problems laid out now, in front of us.  It woul dbe far worse if Klopp was fooled by the resources we have.  Best he sees all our spots and scars now. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 23, 2016, 10:52:53 PM
(http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7232081.ece/ALTERNATES/s1023/Norwich-City-v-Liverpool.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 23, 2016, 10:53:36 PM
I reckon this guy cares.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 24, 2016, 12:38:30 AM
I would say all 4 goals conceded was a direct result of our average CM.

1-1: Can fail for the umteenth time to mark his man allowing Norwich to head the ball in front of goal from the far post. Henderson fail to clear it. I don't think Sakho defended particularly poorly. It all happened in a blink of an eye.

2-1: Both Can and Henderson are extremly passive, you'd be forgiven for saying lazy, allowing Naismith to run past Henderson to score a goal that was extremly easy to defend.

3-1: Moreno was at fault and a bit clumpsy although I feel the peno was a tad harsh given that fukcing twit Naismith fell over throughout the game. In any case our disjointed CM made it possible for Norwich to get to that position.

4-4: Acting like boys the CM fell back way, way too far thereby failing to give ourselves any reasonble chance to win the 2nd ball.

I actually thought Sakho and Toure did well on the day. No clear or crucial mistake from either player. Both Clyne and Moreno need to do better though.

If this club have any ambition to retain its historical position it must upgrade the center of midfield. Can, Henderson and Lucas is arguably the most average center midfield set up I've witnessed during 35 years of watching Liverpool.

I think people want Can to become a new Alonso. It just won't happen. Henderson could be kept as a squad player but must be removed of the armband ASAP. He's an embarrassment to that institution.

Firmino I must say seem to finally finding his feet. Much more active and mobile in the last couple of games.

Our main problem though is that we don't have a leader on the pitch that can spur the team on when they need it. Now we got back into the game thanks to a brilliant individual effort by Firmino on our 2nd.  Truth be told tho we were abysmal for large parts of the game thanks to our dysfunctional central midfield. To see the ratings Henderson recieve makes me sick to the bone.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 24, 2016, 02:17:01 AM
I'd build my midfield around Can and Henderson.

Our young German Gem is only 22 years old.  That back-heel he played earlier this season, that led to a goal, must have been one of the finest pieces of skill seen in the premiership this season.  If that had been Gerrard, he would have received a knighthood for it....and Sky and the BBC would have been playing it, on the hour, for years. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 24, 2016, 07:41:31 AM
(http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i/?img=/photo/2016/0123/r47345_1296x729_16-9.jpg&w=738&site=espnfc)

the media is reporting that Klopp had his glasses broken by Benteke in the celebrations.

Best move the Belgian's made all season. 'Break his glasses and with blurred vision it looks like I'm moving about a lot'. A very cunning plan  young Christian. However, it won't stop you getting thrown to a Klopp shaped lion.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 24, 2016, 07:57:13 AM
Sturridge would also be shown the door.   

I have been craving to say this for 2 months now - but held back, lest I be laughed out of the forum. 

Dude, I think most fans now are starting to realise that that's the only way this can end. He may go to another club and manage 75% of their games, but for whatever reason he just seems permanently MIA for us.

I see no point holding on to him unless he gets himself fit by the middle of February and doesn't miss a single game until the end of the season. Even then I'd have my doubts about him for next season, because the last thing WE need is Hodgson breaking taking him to the Euros, but of course he will.

He's becoming like that guy at Arsenal (can't remember his name) who was injured for years.

It's beyond a joke. Either he has the most incredibly efficient nervous system that makes normal muscle ache into severe pain, or he has an absolute zero pain threshold. Or a muscle disease of some sort not yet diagnosed.

No matter how good he is when he gets on the pitch, it's pointless holding onto him on the 'but what if' reasoning as we're getting the same amount of use out of him as if we'd sold him anyway.

It's a shame but we need to move on.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 24, 2016, 11:06:38 AM
No matter how good he is when he gets on the pitch, it's pointless holding onto him on the 'but what if' reasoning as we're getting the same amount of use out of him as if we'd sold him anyway.

It's a shame but we need to move on.

agreed, Tes.

Interesting that Didi Hammman said the other week, that even at City (when they were both there), there were concerns, even back then, about his injuries.

By the way, where you quoted me above saying, that "I have been craving to say this for 2 months now - but held back, lest I be laughed out of the forum."

That was in reference to Firminhio being able to be converted and play as our number 9  (he could easily play number 10, just off the main forward).

That lad could be something special. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 24, 2016, 11:14:07 AM
Best move the Belgian's made all season. 'Break his glasses and with blurred vision it looks like I'm moving about a lot'. A very cunning plan  young Christian. However, it won't stop you getting thrown to a Klopp shaped lion.

 :D :D

you know, if Rafa was here, and we had the data analysis, Benteke could not hide.

Why is he not running and putting himself about.  I know if I was playing for my future, especially my one big chance at a top club, I would be running my guts out.   He just seems indifferent to it all.

No skill, no technical ability, no speed, no effort of any note, indifferent attitude.    Where does the big lad think this is going to end?   Come this summer, he's going to find out. 

I suspect Klopp can't get rid fast enough.  Like I mean,  imagine, you are a 32.5 million striker, just in the door - and the rest of the club's strikers are all injured....and yet, the boss still insists - on the games that you do get a run-out, on bringing you on as a sub for the final 20 minutes.....   

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 24, 2016, 11:21:42 AM
(https://static-secure.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/columnists/2014/4/22/1398202554554/Leicester-City-014.jpg)

I am still cheering Leicester City on.

What an awesome story.   Like something out of a comic book.

Man City and Arsenal are the two big threats.

Aguero is the Man City guy I fear most, re Leicester's chances. 

I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish Leicester could hold on.    If they had not missed a penalty in two successive games, this month, they would have 3 or 4 more points right now.   

I hope they forget about all the cups, and focus entirely on the league title.  It is an impossible dream, but they are within sight of it.

Please oh please.   
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 24, 2016, 11:11:26 PM
:D :D

you know, if Rafa was here, and we had the data analysis, Benteke could not hide.

Why is he not running and putting himself about.  I know if I was playing for my future, especially my one big chance at a top club, I would be running my guts out.   He just seems indifferent to it all.

No skill, no technical ability, no speed, no effort of any note, indifferent attitude.    Where does the big lad think this is going to end?   Come this summer, he's going to find out. 

I suspect Klopp can't get rid fast enough.  Like I mean,  imagine, you are a 32.5 million striker, just in the door - and the rest of the club's strikers are all injured....and yet, the boss still insists - on the games that you do get a run-out, on bringing you on as a sub for the final 20 minutes.....   

It's down to mentality. He simply doesn't have the drive and hunger to be a great player, and he's managed to do just enough to get his life changing/making contract courtesy of our previous manager.

It's sad watching modern pros display little hunger or desire and seemingly pride in their performance. Money really has ruined the game. The pros of the past earned a pittance in comparison but had the hunger to make the most of this career, as they knew they'd have to work at something afterwards, which probably wouldn't be anywhere near as fulfilling.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 24, 2016, 11:14:19 PM

By the way, where you quoted me above saying, that "I have been craving to say this for 2 months now - but held back, lest I be laughed out of the forum."


He can play as a goalscorer who can also create, or a creator who also scores.

Sturridge and Firmino would make an exciting partnership but somehow I don't think we'll see it.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 24, 2016, 11:40:59 PM
From:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/12118737/Liverpool-manager-Jurgen-Klopp-orders-his-side-to-cut-out-defensive-blunders-following-nine-goal-thriller-in-Norwich.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/12118737/Liverpool-manager-Jurgen-Klopp-orders-his-side-to-cut-out-defensive-blunders-following-nine-goal-thriller-in-Norwich.html)

Jürgen Klopp let out a laugh when he was told that all he needed to do on Tuesday night, to book a cup final place at Wembley, was keep a clean sheet.

Klopp memorably had his glasses knocked off in the pandemonium that followed their late winner. He thought it was Lallana who was the culprit – but it was Christian Benteke. Even when he was knocking the manager’s glasses off, Benteke still could not attract his boss’s attention, having been left on the bench until the final 15 minutes.

Benteke needs to look at Lallana. He's had his critics for his lack of goals and assists for an attacker, but he's never hidden and his work rate can't be faulted. In fact, that's the charge that's been levelled at him, is all he does is work hard, not score or create.

 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 25, 2016, 11:50:43 PM
Shawcross is out for Stoke tomorrow, so that's one less set piece threat.

Hopefully we can finish the job tomorrow, and the Bitters join us at Wembley after their second leg on Wednesday night.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 06:49:03 PM
It's down to mentality. He simply doesn't have the drive and hunger to be a great player.
It's sad watching modern pros display little hunger or desire and seemingly pride in their performance. Money really has ruined the game. The pros of the past earned a pittance in comparison but had the hunger to make the most of this career, as they knew they'd have to work at something afterwards, which probably wouldn't be anywhere near as fulfilling.

exactly.

when pros finished playing, in our era, they would maybe have gathered enough money to open an off-license, or a maybe a bar.  Those who excelled, and liked the high life, might even have been able to afford to open a disco.

I recall in 1963, Ringo Starr, of the Beatles, saying that he hoped to open a local hairdressing salon. 

In modern football, young kids, no more than 20 years old (some even in their teens) are already millionaires.

There is something very badly wrong with the game - and with society in general.

As you say, the mentality is all wrong.  I can't imagine a young player nowadays sweeping the terraces, or cleaning the boots of a first-team player.  The work ethic, and the humility has all gone. 



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 06:57:23 PM
Sadly, under Brendan Rodgers' tenure, we were finished when we fell behind in a game.

You could visibly see the confidence, and the fight, drain for our players, when the opposition went ahead.  And you could leave the ground early, knowing it the game was up.

Since Klopp's appointment, Liverpool tops the Premier League with respect to scoring goals after the 75th minute.   I saw that fact today.

We may still have glaring issues to fix.  But I will tell you what, Klopp - even in these early days of his reign - has instilled a mental fortitude into the team.  And we saw that a month or two back, when he demanded fans stay til the end of the games, and support us to the death.

Like under Rafa, he is instilling a belief (in the players, and the fans).

We believe!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 08:34:54 PM
the final kick of the first half, Stoke score.

where the feck was our central defender?  Lazy half-arsed, couldn't be bothered covering the breaking run of the scorer.   Sakho or Toure?  I could not see who our lad was.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 26, 2016, 08:39:13 PM
the final kick of the first half, Stoke score.

where the feck was our central defender?  Lazy half-arsed, couldn't be bothered covering the breaking run of the scorer.   Sakho or Toure?  I could not see who our lad was.

First of all, I've re-watched the goal a couple of times. ALL our worthless and inept midfielders stop running leaving our back 4 exposed so fukcing plz bark up the right tree will you.

Other than that surely everybody can see that we do no have a captain. We have a fukcing joke for a captain passing it sideways and backwards. NOT ONE FUKCING PASS IN THE FORWARD DIRECTION WAS SUCCESSFUL. How fukcing crap isn't that. And that overrated Can is just getting to me with his 42 % passing rate. Milner? Don't get me started. Lucas decent.

We'll go out because we have no mentality, quality or leadership. Klopp talking up Henderson? What the fukc is that?????
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 08:41:52 PM
looked at it again.

it was Moreno's fault....as per usual, rubbish defender.

Sakho goes to left back, to cover Moreno's absence.   But Moreno, at that point, needs to run and cover the left centreback spot.   He doesn;t bother.

Moreno is a very poor player.

Liverpool have been awful.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 26, 2016, 08:45:52 PM
looked at it again.

it was Moreno's fault....as per usual, rubbish defender.

Sakho goes to left back, to cover Moreno's absence.   But Moreno, at that point, needs to run and cover the left centreback spot.   He doesn;t bother.

Moreno is a very poor player.

Liverpool have been awful.

But our midfielders did fukc all to put Stoke under pressure. We gave them ample time and space to play it wide. The lads were already in the dressing room. Shocking really. If ever there was a need for a complete overhaulf of a football squad...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on January 26, 2016, 08:47:15 PM
the final kick of the first half, Stoke score.

where the feck was our central defender?  Lazy half-arsed, couldn't be bothered covering the breaking run of the scorer.   Sakho or Toure?  I could not see who our lad was.

There saying the goal was off side but Sakho was poor.  As Graeme Souness said recently we have a very average group of players and they are playing that average role extremely well.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 08:48:56 PM
But our midfielders did fukc all to put Stoke under pressure. We gave them ample time and space to play it wide. The lads were already in the dressing room. Shocking really. If ever there was a need for a complete overhaulf of a football squad...

very poor first half, Martin.

Stoke look like the home team.

We need to up our game this half.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
There saying the goal was off side but Sakho was poor.  As Graeme Souness said recently we have a very average group of players and they are playing that average role extremely well.

yes, definitely offside, Gurdeep.

I saw it again - Moreno is caught badly out of position. 

Sakho goes across to cover for him, at left back.

Moreno is so far up the pitch, as to not be able to get back to cover the now vacant left centreback spot.    But even beyond that, Toure had to bust a gut, to cover the scorer's run.   He didn't.

 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on January 26, 2016, 08:52:14 PM
First of all, I've re-watched the goal a couple of times. ALL our worthless and inept midfielders stop running leaving our back 4 exposed so fukcing plz bark up the right tree will you.

The back four are there for a fkin reason!!!!!!   You blame everyone bar your beloved shine-a-light Sakho!  Even Ray Houghton on TalkSport was spitting feathers at our defence, Moreno out of position most of the time.

Face it.....our squad is poor.  Don't expect anything from this bunch.  Until Klopp gets in the players he wants this squad will continue to frustrate.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 08:59:56 PM
Face it.....our squad is poor.  Don't expect anything from this bunch.  Until Klopp gets in the players he wants this squad will continue to frustrate.

yes, Klopp is gonna need a few windows, before he can get a good team together.

This is the worst team/squad I have seen at Anfield in my lifetime.

Thanks to David Brent and his amateur scouts, and yankee know-nothings.  Rafa would weep, looking at this set of players.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 09:04:11 PM
an hour gone.

Stoke are, by far, the better team.

We need to change things.    If not, we could lose this by 2 or 3 nil.

On a positive note - despite being woeful - we are still level on aggregate. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 09:19:13 PM
into the final 15 minutes.

we are dangerous in this period.

one goal, and we will be through (despite being awful)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 26, 2016, 09:39:25 PM
The back four are there for a fkin reason!!!!!!   You blame everyone bar your beloved shine-a-light Sakho!  Even Ray Houghton on TalkSport was spitting feathers at our defence, Moreno out of position most of the time.

Face it.....our squad is poor.  Don't expect anything from this bunch.  Until Klopp gets in the players he wants this squad will continue to frustrate.

Yes, but seeing as everybody is so fukcing up to praising the totally inept Henderson and Can I thought I'd do something different.

Sakho kept us in the game on his own in the 2nd half.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 09:41:51 PM
90 minutes -   1-1 on aggregate....extra time beckons.

I know Tes prefers only 2 or 3 changes this summer.

But, personally, I would change at least half this team.

A new keeper, two new central defenders...a new left-back.

at least 2 new midfielders.

And at least one new striker.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 09:44:05 PM
Sakho kept us in the game on his own in the 2nd half.

Sakho is woeful, Martin.

His distribution is awful.  He makes last-gasp tackles because he is caught out of position initially, and/or has read the play wrong.

And if he is so good, then why do we concede so many goals from crosses/corners?   He is a centreback after all. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 10:10:21 PM
5 minutes to go, in extra time.

to be honest - it will be daylight robbery, if Stoke lose tonight.

They have been totally dominant in this game.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 10:12:16 PM
penalties are our best bet.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 10:31:23 PM
we win.

night-light daylight robbery.

Stoke were ambushed by Dick Turpin.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 26, 2016, 10:40:31 PM
5 minutes to go, in extra time.

to be honest - it will be daylight robbery, if Stoke lose tonight.

They have been totally dominant in this game.

Disagree. They played for penos from minute 60 onwards. Just because we lack quality and mental strength doesn't make them dominant.

Brilliant penalties though.

Another result to paper over the crack. We're terribly, terribly poor. Sakho my man of the match. Kept us in the game with two monstrous blocks when they had a strong period in the 2nd half.

My feelings on the most average midfield to ever wear a red shirt is well know so I'll spare you the rant.

Thought Benteke had a very good game. Stoke did very well to keep him from getting into shooting/finishing positions.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 26, 2016, 10:49:14 PM
Thought Benteke had a very good game. Stoke did very well to keep him from getting into shooting/finishing positions.

no harm in different opinions, Martin.  It would be boring if we all agreed.  I like reading your thoughts.

Re Benteke - I thought he was very poor.  Ineffective.   He has neither technical ability, speed, nor the ability to hold the ball up.   He will be gone, come summer.  IMHO

Sakho - why is it always last-ditch with him?  Tells me, he is poor.  And crosses, is he the anti-Christ, why does he go missing when there are crosses?


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 26, 2016, 11:46:51 PM
It's hardly always last-ditch. There's no substance to that argument. His distribution may be poor but what words do we save for Henderson and Can's distribution? Ibe's end-Product? Lallana's "trickery"?

You're having a go at a player who failed to prevent a goal from an off-side position while accepting the inept and totally worthless crap our midfielders produce game in and game out? Why is that? When was the last time our so called captain actually won a game for us? Spurs away Little over 2 years ago? What do you make of Can's decision making outside our own box? Lucas giving away needless free-kicks every now and then from dangerous positions?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 27, 2016, 01:36:38 AM
You're having a go at a player who failed to prevent a goal from an off-side position while accepting the inept and totally worthless crap our midfielders produce game in and game out? Why is that? When was the last time our so called captain actually won a game for us? Spurs away Little over 2 years ago?

While he is no Souness, Henderson is one of our best players.  Without him tonight, we would probably have lost by two or more goals.

if you cannot read a game, Martin, or properly analyse it, via your own eyes, then I suggest you rely on the data.

Liverpool are a stronger team with Henderson in the team, than they are, when he is not in the team.

He has been injured for a large part of this season, and look how we have suffered.

But look at the data.

2014/15 -  Henderson started 36 of Liverpool’s 38 Premier League games last season, with the Reds winning 50% of those matches. The two league games that he didn’t start brought a grand total of just one point – a 0-0 draw at home to Hull City and a 3-1 loss at Crystal Palace.

Going back to 2013/14 season, Liverpool won a staggering 71% of the 35 league games that Henderson started that season.   

Since the start of the 2013-14 campaign, til mid September this season, Liverpool have won just one of eight games without the current skipper.  Or to put it another way, Liverpool’s win percentage with Henderson since August 2013 is 62%. Without him, it drops to 12.5%.

I'd even go so far as to argue - that Jordan's red card in injury time against Man City in 2013/14, which robbed us of his services for those final vital three league games, probably cost us the title. 

We struggled against Norwich City, Chelsea and Palace, and our title hopes went down the drain.

Now what was it again you were saying about how rubbish Jordan Henderson is, our so-called captain?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 27, 2016, 02:56:22 PM
I'd rather we had a better situation than having to consider Hendo for captain.

Hendo is just one of those players that means the team is better with than without him. It happens. Sometimes you have a player like that. Sometimes it's not always possible to say exactly why, but I guess it's just one of those fine lines we know exist, even if we can't always define them.
Lucas went through a period where we simply had better results with him than without him.

Not all players can be or are match winners, ergo, not all captains will be match winners.

If I was looking for someone to rely on pulling us out of the brown stuff then Hendo wouldn't exactly be the first to spring to mind. He simply isn't that sort of player. Now, Joe Allen, that's a different story.  ;D

I think Hendo has suffered from not having an actual position during his development (and to a degree he still is developing). Him being ask to be a 'jack of all trades', has meant he isn't yet a master of any one particular.

He brings energy to the team. A player still able to be an out ball or a forward runner beyond a striker that drops deep, late into the game when others are tiring. Likewise he's got the energy to make that late track back from in the opponent's half. I'm not saying he always does that, in fact his awareness, alertness and total concentration does need to improve in order to be mentally aware of things that he is physically capable. At the moment his mental stamina in a game doesn't always match his physical stamina.

I don't think we have a midfielder that couldn't be upgraded, or maybe thinking about it more intricately, does that mean we haven't got a single midfielder who's actual role and function in the team couldn't be better defined.
It's not the easiest to clearly define the exact roles and the exact qualities each of our midfielders bring to the team. Maybe that's where it makes defining and clarifying Hendo's contribution seem wishywashy. Likewise with Milner's, Allen's, Lucas' and Can's.
Before you can decide and judge whether they are what's needed or any of them individually meets or not the required criteria, you have to also be sure that you have that criteria clearly established.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 27, 2016, 03:11:07 PM
Brilliant to be in the final, but I just wish we could actually turn up to these sorts of matches.

We will need to actually perform in the final, whoever we play, as both City and the Bitters won't let us off as lightly as Stoke did last night.

Likewise we'll need to actually be at the races against West Ham otherwise there'll be no need to make a second London hotel booking this season.

Klopp has so far done a great job with our in game mentality, Norwich being a perfect example, but he's still got to work on us actually turning up from the off in these sorts of crucial games, when maybe the opponent isn't from the normal top four in the league.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 27, 2016, 03:26:56 PM
yes, definitely offside, Gurdeep.

I saw it again - Moreno is caught badly out of position. 

Sakho goes across to cover for him, at left back.

Moreno is so far up the pitch, as to not be able to get back to cover the now vacant left centreback spot.    But even beyond that, Toure had to bust a gut, to cover the scorer's run.   He didn't.

 

What were we doing being so open in injury time of the first half, in a tie where we were a matter of seconds away from being 3/4 of the way through it, and still leading?


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZrI3mYWAAIw8vM.png)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 27, 2016, 03:49:49 PM
What were we doing being so open in injury time of the first half, in a tie where we were a matter of seconds away from being 3/4 of the way through it, and still leading?

exactly.

daydreaming most likely.

here is my amended photo

(http://s13.postimg.org/ftm9mjycn/moreno2.jpg)

from memory Toure is the other lad.

I have highlighted the two important lads.

Moreno is out of his left back position.....so as you;d expect, Sakho comes across to cover.....leaving a gap behind.   

Moreno is miles out of poition, and will never get back in time.

So, Toure has to bust a gut, to close down their breaking player (the scorer).  He didn't bust a gut.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 27, 2016, 03:54:29 PM
Hendo is just one of those players that means the team is better with than without him. It happens. Sometimes you have a player like that. Sometimes it's not always possible to say exactly why, but I guess it's just one of those fine lines we know exist, even if we can't always define them.
Lucas went through a period where we simply had better results with him than without him.

Not all players can be or are match winners, ergo, not all captains will be match winners.

If I was looking for someone to rely on pulling us out of the brown stuff then Hendo wouldn't exactly be the first to spring to mind. He simply isn't that sort of player. Now, Joe Allen, that's a different story.  ;D

I think Hendo has suffered from not having an actual position during his development (and to a degree he still is developing). Him being ask to be a 'jack of all trades', has meant he isn't yet a master of any one particular.

He brings energy to the team. A player still able to be an out ball or a forward runner beyond a striker that drops deep, late into the game when others are tiring. Likewise he's got the energy to make that late track back from in the opponent's half. I'm not saying he always does that, in fact his awareness, alertness and total concentration does need to improve in order to be mentally aware of things that he is physically capable. At the moment his mental stamina in a game doesn't always match his physical stamina.

I don't think we have a midfielder that couldn't be upgraded, or maybe thinking about it more intricately, does that mean we haven't got a single midfielder who's actual role and function in the team couldn't be better defined.
It's not the easiest to clearly define the exact roles and the exact qualities each of our midfielders bring to the team. Maybe that's where it makes defining and clarifying Hendo's contribution seem wishywashy. Likewise with Milner's, Allen's, Lucas' and Can's.
Before you can decide and judge whether they are what's needed or any of them individually meets or not the required criteria, you have to also be sure that you have that criteria clearly established.

that is a pretty fair analysis of Hendo.

like you say, there is no player in our midfield (or defence, or attack) that could not be upgraded.

Henderson is not in a match-winning type of player......I guess he will be judged in terms of the previous captain.  But he does an awful lot of work....covers a lot of ground. 

He is one of our better assets....and not a key upgrade right now.  imho
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 27, 2016, 04:06:21 PM
Brilliant to be in the final, but I just wish we could actually turn up to these sorts of matches.

We will need to actually perform in the final, whoever we play, as both City and the Bitters won't let us off as lightly as Stoke did last night.

Likewise we'll need to actually be at the races against West Ham otherwise there'll be no need to make a second London hotel booking this season.

Klopp has so far done a great job with our in game mentality, Norwich being a perfect example, but he's still got to work on us actually turning up from the off in these sorts of crucial games, when maybe the opponent isn't from the normal top four in the league.

yes, we failed to turn up in the Villa semi-final last year....and we failed to turn up last night in the League Cup semi-final.

I think our lads struggle against well-organised teams, that are in your face and energetic.

I'd love to see in-game data, regarding the work our lads do now (these last 2 seasons) with what they did previously.   e.g. how many miles per game are they running.

Teams that kick the ball long, or play quite direct, always give Klopp's Liverpool problems.

Rafa brought a similar '2 or 3 reds attack the opponent when hs has the ball'  strategy.   AFter a season, Rafa had to change his tactics....it did not work in England (though it usually worked against the big teams, and in Europe).

Same with Klopp.  His technical expertise is helping is outwit and beat the big teams in England.....but like Rafa found, it flounders against the rest of the sides.

Juregn has some thinking to do.  He will have to tweak his approach.   

He is smart enough to do that.   I just hope he understands the personnel he will need - and the balance required.

I find that the Liverpool team that can boss Europe, is different from the team needed to boss the premiership.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 27, 2016, 04:22:47 PM
I redrew the red line.

(http://oi68.tinypic.com/11kh3jq.jpg)

when I watched it live last night  and saw the replays....I have to be honest, I did not see the goal as being blatantly offside.....marginal, at worst.

maybe there is a better split second to draw the line - I dunno.

but from above, if he is offside, it is maybe only half the length of a boot - 6 inches....12 inches maybe.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 27, 2016, 10:24:19 PM
What were we doing being so open in injury time of the first half, in a tie where we were a matter of seconds away from being 3/4 of the way through it, and still leading?


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZrI3mYWAAIw8vM.png)

That's what I was trying to say. Our midfielders were Sunday strolling in the center of the park offering no pressure whatsoever on the ball keeping Stoke player. It was, although the set up differed, exactly what happened when Norwich scored their second. Can and Henderson both stood by looking just half-interested.

It was, in fact some time, since we last conceded a goal down to a straight error from our centrebacks. I'm not saying they couldn't do better. I'm just saying I'm starting to get pissed off with this always blaming the back-4 when the whole team is supposed to defend.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 27, 2016, 10:28:29 PM
While he is no Souness, Henderson is one of our best players.  Without him tonight, we would probably have lost by two or more goals.

if you cannot read a game, Martin, or properly analyse it, via your own eyes, then I suggest you rely on the data.

Liverpool are a stronger team with Henderson in the team, than they are, when he is not in the team.

He has been injured for a large part of this season, and look how we have suffered.

But look at the data.

2014/15 -  Henderson started 36 of Liverpool’s 38 Premier League games last season, with the Reds winning 50% of those matches. The two league games that he didn’t start brought a grand total of just one point – a 0-0 draw at home to Hull City and a 3-1 loss at Crystal Palace.

Going back to 2013/14 season, Liverpool won a staggering 71% of the 35 league games that Henderson started that season.   

Since the start of the 2013-14 campaign, til mid September this season, Liverpool have won just one of eight games without the current skipper.  Or to put it another way, Liverpool’s win percentage with Henderson since August 2013 is 62%. Without him, it drops to 12.5%.

I'd even go so far as to argue - that Jordan's red card in injury time against Man City in 2013/14, which robbed us of his services for those final vital three league games, probably cost us the title. 

We struggled against Norwich City, Chelsea and Palace, and our title hopes went down the drain.

Now what was it again you were saying about how rubbish Jordan Henderson is, our so-called captain?

I am, however, a better reader of the game than you are an interpreter of data. That I know for a fact. You can ask any proper statician and they will unanimously tell you, your conclusions are nonsensical unless you perform the exact same analysis for all individual players. Otherwise you will not be able to say for sure wether the results depend on Henderson's inclusion in the team or not. The short version would be - your argument is bollocks.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 27, 2016, 11:03:00 PM
This is Stoke's goal. Pause, when the video pause to show the off-side, and pay particular attention to Lucas and Hendersons positions. Can's not even in the picture. I can't see what Flanagan, Toure or Sakho could've done to prevent the goal. I really can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBzBYC7KKAk (sorry folks, for some reason I can't insert a hyperlink).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on January 27, 2016, 11:08:18 PM
I am, however, a better reader of the game than you are an interpreter of data. That I know for a fact. You can ask any proper statician and they will unanimously tell you, your conclusions are nonsensical unless you perform the exact same analysis for all individual players. Otherwise you will not be able to say for sure wether the results depend on Henderson's inclusion in the team or not. The short version would be - your argument is bollocks.

Mate....
For a man who was the CHIEF backer of Bodgers this is deeply ironic...
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on January 27, 2016, 11:28:18 PM
So I am now getting the stick for sticking up for the manager until he's proven himself not fit? Fair enough.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on January 27, 2016, 11:47:31 PM
Without a doubt we need to defend better as a team. This include the attackers pressing the opposition defence and the midfield pressing and marking to the defence reading and anticipating situations.

Sakho did save us yesterday on a multiple of occasions but also his decision making in terms of distribution wasn't a great as it could be seeing as he put pressure on the midfield with passes that shouldn't have been made. But Sakho is the least of our worries out of that back line. At least he never hides like Skrtel and Lovren.

Henderson playing does make us a better team. However Jordan is not a player that will make those around him better like Gerrard. He isn't inspirational in that sense nor do I believe he needs to be.

However Jordan is a player that complements quality surrounding him. His energy, his pressing, his passing (which has improved massively) and his reading of the game are assets that would complement a top class midfield and attack. Example of this is in 13-14 with a world class attack and Gerrard and Coutinho besides him.

However with the likes of Can, Lucas, Allen and Milner who are a downgrade on the 13-14 they are unable to use his assets like better midfielders could do.

Can he do more? Yes absolutely. Can he work as part of a midfield two? No not for me. He excels as apart of a three man midfield on that right hand side. Does he go missing in games? At times yes. However he is a player - the glue - that Klopp will build the midfield from. Not build around him because you can only build around midfielders who are world class like Gerrard or a Keane or a Xavi etc. But use as the glue to repair the midfield so that Henderson's qualities can be utilized with better players surrounding him.

Sakho and Henderson are the least of our troubles. So let's start fixing the troubles before considering anything else.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 28, 2016, 12:29:17 AM
This is Stoke's goal. Pause, when the video pause to show the off-side, and pay particular attention to Lucas and Hendersons positions. Can's not even in the picture. I can't see what Flanagan, Toure or Sakho could've done to prevent the goal. I really can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBzBYC7KKAk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBzBYC7KKAk) (sorry folks, for some reason I can't insert a hyperlink).

(http://s13.postimg.org/ftm9mjycn/moreno2.jpg)

Martin,  who was our left back last night, and where is he at, in the above picture?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 28, 2016, 12:35:17 AM
I am, however, a better reader of the game than you are an interpreter of data. That I know for a fact. You can ask any proper statician and they will unanimously tell you, your conclusions are nonsensical unless you perform the exact same analysis for all individual players. Otherwise you will not be able to say for sure wether the results depend on Henderson's inclusion in the team or not. The short version would be - your argument is bollocks.

Martin, you were the one who endlessly ridiculed Rafa, and wanted him sacked.  How has that worked out?   The club has been in decline ever since (apart from one season where the world class Suarez gave us a title run).

You were the one who said that Brendan Rodgers was the messiah.  The one who would lead us to new levels.  You were right - but the levels were not high ones.

You are not even able to read the Stoke goal, correctly.  Moreno goes AWOL.....Sakho has to come over to cover for him.  The lad cannot get back to cover the gap behind Sakho.  Toure cannot be arsed (or is unable to) cover the runner (who scored).

This is not difficult stuff. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 28, 2016, 03:27:24 AM
that decision last night almost cost us.

But tonight, a bad call for the City equaliser DID cost Everton.  The ball that Sterling crossed was out of play.   Something has to be done about these calls.  Refs badly need the help of video replay technology.  Maybe like in cricket, limit a team to only one or two permitted video replay calls per game.

(http://e2.365dm.com/16/01/16-9/20/manchester-city-everton-ball-out_3406759.png?20160127223516)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 28, 2016, 06:10:20 PM
that decision last night almost cost us.

But tonight, a bad call for the City equaliser DID cost Everton.  The ball that Sterling crossed was out of play.   Something has to be done about these calls.  Refs badly need the help of video replay technology.  Maybe like in cricket, limit a team to only one or two permitted video replay calls per game.

(http://e2.365dm.com/16/01/16-9/20/manchester-city-everton-ball-out_3406759.png?20160127223516)

The ref's position wasn't too bad. Definitely better than his eyesight.

Maybe if there was something like in tennis, where the entire back line is covered. That would sort out things like this, as well as 'did the ball cross the goal line' and 'did a corner swing out of play before coming back in'.
There's so much money in football now, and so much money riding on football results in all sorts of ways, that technology, which is available, has to be used.
We don't need big screen replays, just a voice in the ref's ear.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 30, 2016, 07:49:37 PM
There's so much money in football now, and so much money riding on football results in all sorts of ways, that technology, which is available, has to be used.
We don't need big screen replays, just a voice in the ref's ear.

agreed.

in our era, fans took the ref's word for decisions.

But in modern times, we know immediately when the ref has fecked up. 

Refs need help.   Bad decisions are ruining the game.   

I still think back to that atrocious Thierry Henry hand-ball to knock Ireland out of the world cup, in the play-off in Paris.  Atrocious. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on January 30, 2016, 07:51:16 PM
0-0

so we have to have a replay, in London.

How awful is Benteke.

Dire, dire, dire.  We'd have more goals from a lamp-post parked in their penalty area.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 31, 2016, 06:39:08 PM
0-0

so we have to have a replay, in London.

How awful is Benteke.

Dire, dire, dire.  We'd have more goals from a lamp-post parked in their penalty area.

If either he or anyone else wonders why Klopp doesn't pick him, the three FA Cup games should be reason enough.

Dire, is the right word, Dude. How he didn't finish or create a tap-in chance from the opportunities he had, is beyond me.

Anyone who thinks Klopp disrespected the FA Cup only needs to compare the three performances against West Ham. This was the strongest one, and that team looked superior to the two that have shipped 5 goals in the previous two matches.

Obviously we need to play a strong team against Leicester, but the following game is against Sunderland, and then it's the West Ham replay. If certain players who get picked against Leicester don't perform, then I'd have no problem seeing some of the younger players brought in not just for the West Ham game (which will happen anyway), but also for the Sunderland game, as they look like they're trying to take their chances when offered, which you have to wonder about more senior players who don't look as though they are.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 31, 2016, 07:31:00 PM
Away to Blackburn in round 5 if we get past West Ham.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on January 31, 2016, 11:53:54 PM
Interesting article and it raises the point about the so-called weakened team performing better than their 'regular' colleagues and whether some of those who played deserve to be dropped for under performing, senior, more experienced players.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/12132532/Liverpool-hungry-for-more-after-heartening-performance-from-youngsters-against-West-Ham.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/12132532/Liverpool-hungry-for-more-after-heartening-performance-from-youngsters-against-West-Ham.html)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 02, 2016, 05:20:52 PM
yes, I saw that article.  I would play those in form, always. 

But I can see why Klopp wants to keep some players involved - he will want to get a decent price for Benteke in the summer.

By the way - would it be a sin, if I wanted Leicester to beat us tonight.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE Leicester to win the title.

They have 15 cup finals to go.....including a big run in the these next three games against top clubs.   

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on February 02, 2016, 09:52:27 PM
Our 4th goalless game in the last 5 against PL opposition. Injuries an'all but this is a testament to the fact this is the poorest Liverpool side since Shankly took over. There's no need to moan about the lack of leadership in the side, the lack of a genuine captain, central midfield's inability to pin down opponents, inability to hit the target from any fukcing position, so on so on. It's there for the world to see.

At the same time I am genuinely shocked at how poor the PL have become. I cannot fathom the fact Leicester are top after 24 games. They have no game of their own, they live exclusively on individual brilliance and luck. They park the bus and hope for a lucky break. The fact that is enough to have secured CL-qualification after 24 games says a lot the PL will sooner rather than later have 3 teams in the CL making it increasingly difficult for midtable sides like ourselves to ever get back into it.

I have no faith Klopp will ever be able to make us better than 6th or possibly 5th. There's just been too many millions wasted. Although I thinkn Lovren and Sakho's looking better and better the rest of the team would struggle to make a position their own in any other top 15 team.

65 million pounds wasted on Benteke and Firmino. Another 25 on Lallana. That's 90 million worth of utter and complete crap. Seeing as we won't qualify for Europé next year we will not be able to attract the necessary talent and quality despite having one of the most talented managers. I think Klopp slowly starts to realise he made a mistake by coming here.

There's absolutely no future for LFC. None!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 02, 2016, 10:34:01 PM
Our 4th goalless game in the last 5 against PL opposition. Injuries an'all but this is a testament to the fact this is the poorest Liverpool side since Shankly took over. There's no need to moan about the lack of leadership in the side, the lack of a genuine captain, central midfield's inability to pin down opponents, inability to hit the target from any fukcing position, so on so on. It's there for the world to see.

At the same time I am genuinely shocked at how poor the PL have become. I cannot fathom the fact Leicester are top after 24 games. They have no game of their own, they live exclusively on individual brilliance and luck. They park the bus and hope for a lucky break. The fact that is enough to have secured CL-qualification after 24 games says a lot the PL will sooner rather than later have 3 teams in the CL making it increasingly difficult for midtable sides like ourselves to ever get back into it.

I have no faith Klopp will ever be able to make us better than 6th or possibly 5th. There's just been too many millions wasted. Although I thinkn Lovren and Sakho's looking better and better the rest of the team would struggle to make a position their own in any other top 15 team.

65 million pounds wasted on Benteke and Firmino. Another 25 on Lallana. That's 90 million worth of utter and complete crap. Seeing as we won't qualify for Europé next year we will not be able to attract the necessary talent and quality despite having one of the most talented managers. I think Klopp slowly starts to realise he made a mistake by coming here.

There's absolutely no future for LFC. None!

Back in 1959, no-one would have guessed where we'd be in 1977.

We know we're hopeless. Trust me, Klopp will too.

We're all stuck with the dross Rodgers, Ayre and the transfer numpties massively overpaid for.

I'd like to see the likes of Teixeira, Brad Smith, Brannagan given the chance against Sunderland, as they will play for the right to face West Ham.

It's a shame Sinclair is whatever he's been since he made his debut 3 years ago, as neither Rodgers or Klopp have seen fit to give him a run despite our chronic lack of goals over the last two seasons.

Martin, Rodgers is no more and hopefully the transfer committee won't have the influence it previously had.
All we can hope is that Klopp and his assistants can identify and get some of the right players in the Summer and start to piece together a decent squad.
Dortmund had fallen a long way, but he picked them up.

As you say, this is a woeful team. I'd say it's probably on a par with Houllier's squad in terms of malfunctioning, but I also think, like Houllier's squad, with some decent additions in certain positions, we'll start to see an improvement in one or two that look out of it now. Obviously most of Rodgers' buys are write offs but we've yet to see Ings or Origi properly, and with more suitable players I've hopes for Firmino.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 02, 2016, 11:28:41 PM
it's always darkest just before the dawn.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on February 02, 2016, 11:50:21 PM
Cheers for that Tes. I needed a few positive words after being devastated from having to watch that.

I'm waiting for that moment, that experience from which there's no way back. A moment where we as a collective, a unit, a team realise what's needed to win. A moment that brings proper belief (Man U under Taggart for reference) back. I took Fergie quite a few years for that moment to arrive and it probably won't this or the next season. A mini-moment could arrive from winning silverware this season though. Seeing as it was always naive, bordering on delusional, to think we could compete on 4 fronts with his squad, maybe we'll have a chance to actually focus properly on the remaining competitions now that the league is well and truly over.

But the lack of leadership, hardness and quality among our front 6 is alarming. I reiterate the fact we failed to score in 4 of our last 5 games against PL opposition. Surely that must be some sort of record?

We'll see what happen in the summer. If it is what it takes, I'll pray night and day we don't do a Rodgers once more going after every available player on the continent. A strong central midfielder, a 20 goal/season striker and a wide man would be enough by far. Get rid of the deadwood, promote a few kids and we could have a chance to finish in 5th or 6th next season.

Dude! We have long dark nights up here in the North, mind.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 03, 2016, 12:43:14 AM
Dude! We have long dark nights up here in the North, mind.

 :D

Klopp will bring the glorious dawn, Martin.

He has been to the mountain top.  He has seen the promised land.

We bossed this game for spells (like we do most games).  We just need strikers and a couple of midfielders who can occasionally hit a barn door with a pig's a.r.se.  Imagine what our boss will do when has decent players to work with.  Just imagine.   
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on February 03, 2016, 05:52:05 AM
I cannot fathom the fact Leicester are top after 24 games. They have no game of their own, they live exclusively on individual brilliance and luck. They park the bus and hope for a lucky break. The fact that is enough to have secured CL-qualification after 24 games says a lot the PL will sooner rather than later have 3 teams in the CL making it increasingly difficult for midtable sides like ourselves to ever get back into it.

Really unfair on Leicester that.  Table doesn't lie, and Leciester have been brilliant this season!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on February 03, 2016, 09:41:40 AM
Really unfair on Leicester that.  Table doesn't lie, and Leciester have been brilliant this season!

Agree to disagree. The table doesn't lie, true. But I would have it, its showing says more about the poor quality of the league as such as it does Leicesters brilliance. We shall see next season how well they fare.

Like Dude said we dominated the game completely up til their 1st goal and having slept on it I think my own, other fans and medias reaction to our performance is a tad OTT and basically relates to how we reacted on going a goal down.

The upside of losing out on 4th is that we finally can focus properly on the cups allowing Klopp to actually begin the work to identify who shold be kept for the future and what players need to leave.

If I were Klopp I would put all my eggs in the EL-basket as it would give us a shot at CL and give us priceless experience.

Spurs look by far the best and most complete side at this moment as much as it hurts to say.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 03, 2016, 03:15:33 PM
Like Dude said we dominated the game completely up til their 1st goal and having slept on it I think my own, other fans and medias reaction to our performance is a tad OTT and basically relates to how we reacted on going a goal down.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of OTT. It's what we do. It's the manifestation of how much we care. It's who we are, and it's good to have a soul.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 03, 2016, 03:32:34 PM
The upside of losing out on 4th is that we finally can focus properly on the cups allowing Klopp to actually begin the work to identify who shold be kept for the future and what players need to leave.

If I were Klopp I would put all my eggs in the EL-basket as it would give us a shot at CL and give us priceless experience.

Spurs look by far the best and most complete side at this moment as much as it hurts to say.

Priority 1 - the league cup. That gets European competition that we won't get through the league.

Once 28th February's out of the way, like you say Martin, UEFA Cup is our focus. We qualify for CL by actually winning something.

Use the league and FA Cup (unless we reach the semis) to make sure Klopp knows who he's got, who's worth keeping, and have a good look at some of the younger lads who at least look up for a game of football when given the chance.

Levy has finally let a manager get on and manage, and The Poch is putting together a squad using good football common sense. He's not making change after change using the 'buy in bulk' model that messed up his predecessor (the guy who had no name, just a bunch of initials), that Rodgers poked fun at and then proceeded to copy two Summers running. He buys players that fit the style of play and the style of play fits the players. It suits the league too. I hope Spurs qualify for the CL proper as I'd be interested to see if it works in European football too.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 03, 2016, 04:04:09 PM
But I would have it, its showing says more about the poor quality of the league as such as it does Leicesters brilliance.

So are Leicester being the worst or the best? The best of the worse, or the worst of the best? Succeeding at failing, failing to fail or failing at not succeeding?

The standard of the league is poor. It may be the most highly bank rolled, and the most hyped by the companies within the same portfolio of the company doing the bank rolling, but it's never been the best.
Lesser teams now have more money, and because they've always had to make maximum use of much less funds, now they are making maximum of use of more funds, they're matching the teams that have always had the most, and whilst not making the maximum use of it, still by default of the chasm in quality they could get hold of, succeeded.

Even if so many teams have been poor, Leicester are top because they've picked up the most points. They've succeeded in being the least bad, the least below their expected standard, or whilst not being a glamourous name, or not having big name players, have a canny manager who is buying good players, but not big names, and is fashioning the best team possible out of those players. A better team than the ones made by bigger name managers out of bigger name players.

It reminds me of Forest under Clough when they came up from Division 2 and won Division 1 first season back.
His was a bit of a rag tag collection of players too but one that functioned superbly as a unit. No one individual was stand out though he did add a big name in Peter Shilton, but that was all about ability rather than the image of the player. No one player could make the difference because the difference could only be made when all the players came together. The difference was the complete thing not an individual component.

Ranieri never got the praise he deserved at Chelsea. He put together the foundations of Mourinho's first successful team and squad. Lampard and Terry, Duff, Cech was on his way when Ranieri was 'upgraded'. The only one I can't remember is Dogbra. I can't remember if he was a Ranieri arrangee (if that's even a word) or totally down to Mourinho.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 03, 2016, 04:58:50 PM
Even from beyond the managerial grave Rodgers is still going on:

Christian Benteke needs time under Klopp like Lewandowski did - Rodgers

http://www.espn.co.uk/soccer/liverpool/story/2800183/christian-benteke-needs-time-under-klopp-like-lewandowski (http://www.espn.co.uk/soccer/liverpool/story/2800183/christian-benteke-needs-time-under-klopp-like-lewandowski)

So this sort of confirms the rumours that Rodgers pushed to get  the club to pay the buy out clause.

"He is a great player, honestly, he is."

He's still trying to buy time to prove that Benteke really is something that no-one else is seeing.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 03, 2016, 07:43:08 PM
Even from beyond the managerial grave Rodgers is still going on:

Christian Benteke needs time under Klopp like Lewandowski did - Rodgers

http://www.espn.co.uk/soccer/liverpool/story/2800183/christian-benteke-needs-time-under-klopp-like-lewandowski (http://www.espn.co.uk/soccer/liverpool/story/2800183/christian-benteke-needs-time-under-klopp-like-lewandowski)

So this sort of confirms the rumours that Rodgers pushed to get  the club to pay the buy out clause.

"He is a great player, honestly, he is."

He's still trying to buy time to prove that Benteke really is something that no-one else is seeing.

yes, Rodgers went AWOL after being sacked.

Now after the media attention has died down, the big head is back and clearly on a media mission.  The gobshite is appearing nearly every other day, these past 3 weeks, in some media forum.

Rent-a-gobshite. 

No doubt the gobshite will now have a head so big, that unless a big club comes in for him, he will not countenance taking charge of a regular sized club.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 03, 2016, 07:50:16 PM
Leicester, like Gurdeep says, deserve top praise for what they have done this season.   To be honest, I was hoping they would win last night.   

They now have 14 cup finals left.   The prize should be beyond them.  But hey, the clock is ticking down.  What was impossible, now is maybe remotely possible.  City have lots of other competitions, so they may get injuries and tiredness.

Tes brings back the memories that I have too - of Forest getting promoted and winning the title the next year - with a rag tag of players.    Leicester have a tight group of players - like Forest had....a tight team unit.    In modern times, what Forest did, would be nearly impossible.  The big money makes it virtually impossible for small or medium sized clubs, to win the title.  So what Leicester are doing, is awesome.  Absolutely awesome.

And Martin - fear not.  It's good to have soul and emotion.  It is a passionate game. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 03, 2016, 08:35:21 PM
Leicester, like Gurdeep says, deserve top praise for what they have done this season.   To be honest, I was hoping they would win last night.   

They now have 14 cup finals left.   The prize should be beyond them.  But hey, the clock is ticking down.  What was impossible, now is maybe remotely possible.  City have lots of other competitions, so they may get injuries and tiredness.

Tes brings back the memories that I have too - of Forest getting promoted and winning the title the next year - with a rag tag of players.    Leicester have a tight group of players - like Forest had....a tight team unit.    In modern times, what Forest did, would be nearly impossible.  The big money makes it virtually impossible for small or medium sized clubs, to win the title.  So what Leicester are doing, is awesome.  Absolutely awesome.

And Martin - fear not.  It's good to have soul and emotion.  It is a passionate game.

Martin, Dude and I are the middle ages, or is it middle age, even when it applies to more than one, anyway, I digress, as usual. We are kindred spirits where football winning out over all the other BS is concerned.
Leicester are a group of players that dovetail well, where no individual part is worth much on it's own, but almost irreplaceable with the unit.

It's also refreshing that a proper football person like Raneiri is achieving success. He's managed wherever he's been asked to, left with dignity whenever he's been fired and never lost his very obvious love of the game or being able to be a part of it somewhere.
As is probably a bit too obvious, I'm a fan of his. I like the his type who immerse themselves in their team, never seek the limelight or any credit, and just get on with the job and never let boardroom politics, egos, the media or any other nonsense erode his love of working with players and being a coach.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 03, 2016, 09:20:36 PM
From: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-striker-daniel-sturridge-returns-7303739 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-striker-daniel-sturridge-returns-7303739)

And Sturridge came through unscathed after a full session at Melwood on Wednesday

Until he drops the soap on his foot in the showers afterwards.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on February 03, 2016, 11:45:05 PM
Martin, Dude and I are the middle ages, or is it middle age, even when it applies to more than one, anyway, I digress, as usual. We are kindred spirits where football winning out over all the other BS is concerned.
Leicester are a group of players that dovetail well, where no individual part is worth much on it's own, but almost irreplaceable with the unit.

It's also refreshing that a proper football person like Raneiri is achieving success. He's managed wherever he's been asked to, left with dignity whenever he's been fired and never lost his very obvious love of the game or being able to be a part of it somewhere.
As is probably a bit too obvious, I'm a fan of his. I like the his type who immerse themselves in their team, never seek the limelight or any credit, and just get on with the job and never let boardroom politics, egos, the media or any other nonsense erode his love of working with players and being a coach.

Well said. It is, of course, impossible not to love the man. It's a joy just listening to his calm and wise voice. I hold nothing against him, and would indeed be poetic justice if he were to lift the PL-trophy on the last day of the season. At Stamford Bridge. In front of Abramovich.

Now, what I am having a go at is that people are blinded (not saying you or any other member of the forum are) of this romanticism surrounding their relative success thus far - the small club beating the hell out of the nouveau riche. It's Roy Rovers all over an'all. As cosy as it may be it doesn't tell the story they have yet to win possession in a game where they came out winners. It fails to mention the many times their passing rate is well below 60 %. In the long run it is alarming for English club football the rest of the teams are even worse.

My second worry is related to what we all know - this is a one off. Their success rests almost solely on the fact they've only played in the League. With the added game time, inexperience of playing in Europé and energyloss that will result from finishing in the top 4 I cannot see them take many points in the CL. Now, provided Arsenal and Chelsea don't go doing something extraordinary in the last 16 I can see England only having 3 places in the competition 2017/18. Seeing as we will most likely see a reaction from Chelsea and City to this season while Spurs seems to have something serious going on it will decrease our chances, and by all accounts delay our re-entry to the CL.

In any case. Spurs will win it. They're by far the most solid and well organised side in the league. Very very impressive win last night.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 04, 2016, 01:18:44 PM
(http://colorclarity.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/moneyball_stats2.jpg)

Aston Villa's recruitment policy is to blame... Leicester show eyeball beats moneyball
ASTON VILLA fans should call for an independent post mortem if and when the club’s Premier League status draws its last breath in the next few months.
       
By Dave Armitage / Published 4th February 2016
Daily Star

They won’t get one, because it wouldn’t take a genius in football forensics to discover some pretty gruesome truths. Good people will lose jobs and some who are poor at theirs may well remain. That’s often the way it works and Villa won’t be an exception.

But without over-simplifying what a football Quincy might uncover, one thing has brought about Villa’s downfall more than anything. And if we can make one simple observation from the current league table, then it has to be that you can’t beat a good old-fashioned pair of eyes when it comes to recruiting talent. While Villa have gone down the Football Manager computer route, crunching numbers and coming out with God knows what; there at the top sit Leicester.

Villa use a system referred to as Moneyball whereas the club they have looked down upon from the other side of the Midlands seem to have gone for the more traditional ‘eyeball.’   That system (you know the one, where people actually go and stand on a terrace in the rain and watch a player) has brought them Jamie Vardy and Riyad Mahrez to name but two.

Not a bad pair to be fair. Vardy is the Premier League’s top scorer with 18 which, coincidentally is the same amount as the entire Villa team. Vardy was a £1m punt from non-League while the brilliant Mahrez was picked up for £400,000 scuffling around in France.

Villa relied on their number crunchers and ended up bringing in 13 players in the summer for a total cost of around £55m. It’s doubtful they’d recoup half that for the lot of them.


Aston Villa's recruitment policy is to blame... Leicester show eyeball beats moneyball
ASTON VILLA fans should call for an independent post mortem if and when the club’s Premier League status draws its last breath in the next few months
     
They won’t get one, because it wouldn’t take a genius in football forensics to discover some pretty gruesome truths.   Good people will lose jobs and some who are poor at theirs may well remain. That’s often the way it works and Villa won’t be an exception.

But without over-simplifying what a football Quincy might uncover, one thing has brought about Villa’s downfall more than anything. And if we can make one simple observation from the current league table, then it has to be that you can’t beat a good old-fashioned pair of eyes when it comes to recruiting talent.

While Villa have gone down the Football Manager computer route, crunching numbers and coming out with God knows what; there at the top sit Leicester.

Villa use a system referred to as Moneyball whereas the club they have looked down upon from the other side of the Midlands seem to have gone for the more traditional ‘eyeball.’   That system (you know the one, where people actually go and stand on a terrace in the rain and watch a player) has brought them Jamie Vardy and Riyad Mahrez to name but two.

Not a bad pair to be fair. Vardy is the Premier League’s top scorer with 18 which, coincidentally is the same amount as the entire Villa team. Vardy was a £1m punt from non-League while the brilliant Mahrez was picked up for £400,000 scuffling around in France.

Villa relied on their number crunchers and ended up bringing in 13 players in the summer for a total cost of around £55m. It’s doubtful they’d recoup half that for the lot of them.

I haven’t seen one of them that comes even remotely close to being fit enough to share the same room as Vardy or Mahrez, let alone the same dressing room.

Villa’s recruitment policy has been an absolute shambles and someone needs to be made accountable for the massive cost it has inflicted on Villa and their fans.  Not just the financial cost but the pain and ‘grief’ inflicted on supporters at seeing their great club becoming something of a laughing stock. It feels like Villa have been relegated since August. Perhaps they were but we just couldn’t see it.

Surely someone has to be held responsible for such an appalling hotch-potch?  It’s embarrassing and if it wasn’t so serious for those who care, and those good people who may end up being out of work, it borders on comical.

Eyeball beats Moneyball – that would be the inquest verdict.

For all football’s millions, you still need someone with an ‘eye’ for a player. Someone with a feel.

This Leicester story is being compared to the great team Brian Clough built at Nottingham Forest and who is to argue?  Clough and his ‘eyes’ Peter Taylor took a centre-forward with a reputation for trouble and turned him into a centre half and then paired him with a washed up centre-half who by his own admission had already left the Last Chance Saloon.

Kenny Burns and Larry Lloyd went on to become champions of Europe – and all because someone had an ‘eye’ for a player.

I knew Clough pretty well and spent many hours in his company. He would often say to journalists: "Hey, if ever you see a player you think might do a job for me, do let me know. One of the best players I ever signed came from a s***thouse reporter.”

That was Frank Clark who he signed on a free from Newcastle and turned into a European champion too.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 04, 2016, 01:27:46 PM
Our yankee owners, if they had some humility, should step down from their high horse, and look at how their infamous MoneyBall has worked at Villa.

There is a very good reason why Liverpool has it's worst ever group of players (worst, in my lifetime). 

And the primary reason is a set of arrogant, idiotic, owners in Boston. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 04, 2016, 01:49:15 PM
Martin, Dude and I are the middle ages, or is it middle age

52 this year.

statistically, moneyball-analysis-speak-wise, I am not merely in the second half of life....it's more like the final third.    :)

without extra time, I am done for.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 04, 2016, 01:59:59 PM
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/48bcc77007b7d84570329eeed2c17d2cf2842e40/0_0_2560_1536/master/2560.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=5a238165cf730991515d62968fb2bbe3)

• Valencia lose Spanish Cup semi-final first leg 7-0 (Suarez scores 4, Messi scores 3)


Valencia’s Gary Neville refuses to resign after thrashing by Barcelona

Neville reckons:  “The fans didn’t deserve that tonight. We have to recover incredibly quickly”. But he insisted that he would not throw in the towel, despite a difficult start to his managerial career.

“Positivity has been immovable in my life,” he said. “I last had doubts as a player 18 years ago and from that moment on I developed a mechanism to deal with situations like this. Be clear, we have to deliver on Sunday [against Real Betis].”

Valencia have not won in Neville’s eight league games, and in their last 11 in total – and last weekend they lost 1-0 to Sporting Gijón at the Mestalla, the first time they had been beaten at home in the league since November 2014.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 04, 2016, 11:23:55 PM
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/48bcc77007b7d84570329eeed2c17d2cf2842e40/0_0_2560_1536/master/2560.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=5a238165cf730991515d62968fb2bbe3)

• Valencia lose Spanish Cup semi-final first leg 7-0 (Suarez scores 4, Messi scores 3)


Valencia’s Gary Neville refuses to resign after thrashing by Barcelona

Neville reckons:  “The fans didn’t deserve that tonight. We have to recover incredibly quickly”. But he insisted that he would not throw in the towel, despite a difficult start to his managerial career.

“Positivity has been immovable in my life,” he said. “I last had doubts as a player 18 years ago and from that moment on I developed a mechanism to deal with situations like this. Be clear, we have to deliver on Sunday [against Real Betis].”

Valencia have not won in Neville’s eight league games, and in their last 11 in total – and last weekend they lost 1-0 to Sporting Gijón at the Mestalla, the first time they had been beaten at home in the league since November 2014.

Ooooopppsss. That didn't go quite to plan. Brendan's already got his name down for this job.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 04, 2016, 11:35:46 PM
Our yankee owners, if they had some humility, should step down from their high horse, and look at how their infamous MoneyBall has worked at Villa.

There is a very good reason why Liverpool has it's worst ever group of players (worst, in my lifetime). 

And the primary reason is a set of arrogant, idiotic, owners in Boston.

Exactly. Stats might prompt you to go and watch a player, but it should never be the reason you sign one.

Moneyball worked in one sport, for one team, at a certain period in time. Baseball is very much a numbers driven game.
Stats in football are meaningless without context, and the only context that is truly accurate is a visual one.

There is no short cut to determining whether a player is suitable other than by watching how he plays the game. Even then there's no guarantees.   
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 05, 2016, 04:00:32 PM
Skrtel's "a little bit re-injured" according to Klopp. 2 to 3 more weeks out as a result.

(http://cdn.empireofthekop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Screen-Shot-2015-11-22-at-10.09.32-1.jpg)

I think the fact the he doesn't appear to have anything below his knees may be contributing to his problems.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2016, 02:13:44 PM
Skrtel's "a little bit re-injured" according to Klopp. 2 to 3 more weeks out as a result.

(http://cdn.empireofthekop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Screen-Shot-2015-11-22-at-10.09.32-1.jpg)

I think the fact the he doesn't appear to have anything below his knees may be contributing to his problems.

 :) :) :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2016, 02:18:31 PM
Exactly. Stats might prompt you to go and watch a player, but it should never be the reason you sign one.

Moneyball worked in one sport, for one team, at a certain period in time. Baseball is very much a numbers driven game.
Stats in football are meaningless without context, and the only context that is truly accurate is a visual one.

There is no short cut to determining whether a player is suitable other than by watching how he plays the game. Even then there's no guarantees.

precisely.

stats are merely an opening pointer.   Often they tell only part of the story.

One has to have watched the player, before buying.   And have identified that they fit your needs/pattern of play.

Like for example, I absolutely wince at the story that the yanks thought that they were getting a bargain - 50 million pound player for 16 million, when they bought Ballottelli.

Who in their right minds would have bought that lad.   Anyone who watched him play football (couldn;t hit a barn door, and refuses to pass), or knew his off the field issues at other clubs, would have dismissed any idea of buying him, from the off.


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2016, 02:18:43 PM
Now the manager misses out due to medical complaint - appendicitis.

Buvac to do a Phil Thompson.

Sturridge on the bench - I hope it's been meticulously checked for potential splinters.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2016, 02:21:46 PM
Man City 0  Leicester City 3

20 mins to go.  Leicester are absolutely rampant......could have been a cricket score.

This is awesome.

It's too early to make big predictions.

But, I am starting to wonder if something really big is close to happening.

Every genuine football fan (apart from Spurs, City and Arsenal, of course), up and down the country, will be rooting for Leicester, in the final 13 games.

I'm a believer (singing my Monkees song)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2016, 02:23:10 PM
Now the manager misses out due to medical complaint - appendicitis.

Buvac to do a Phil Thompson.

Sturridge on the bench - I hope it's been meticulously checked for potential splinters.

 :)     

I hope nobody gives the lad as much as a dirty look, lest he get some mental injury.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2016, 03:43:37 PM
Like for example, I absolutely wince at the story that the yanks thought that they were getting a bargain - 50 million pound player for 16 million, when they bought Ballottelli.

Who in their right minds would have bought that lad.   Anyone who watched him play football (couldn;t hit a barn door, and refuses to pass), or knew his off the field issues at other clubs, would have dismissed any idea of buying him, from the off.

It shows how little they follow football. They should have known what he was and what he'd bring. None of it worth £16, never mind £16M, and as for £50M.

One question they appear not to have asked themselves was if they knew this, why hadn't the football expert previously identified and suggested it?

We only have Rodgers' version, but it appears that they didn't 'put it out there' for consideration by the committee or the manager, in the way the manager has to deal with recruitment, but just went ahead and had their 'selection' acquired 'sans communal consideration'.

Hypocrisy isn't usually found very far from arrogance.

The more I look at Mansour and look beyond the simplistic 'throw money at it' angle, and see what he does to 'enable' success, the more our owners irritate me. I'm not asking for endless sums of money, in fact what I'm wanting from them doesn't cost a single penny. I want them to make sure everything they decide is an enabler for success.
Let the manager run the football side. Bring in football people to the board and administration to deepen the knowledge base. Don't use up transfer funds and wages buying a player to move on for profit, especially without running it past the people who will really know. Even then, it's the complete opposite of an enabler, because if you buy a player for £16M and turn him into a £50M player it means he must be an important part of the team, hence why would another team wish to acquire him and at such a premium on the price paid if he isn't an important component of a successful team? So why sell an important component? That's enabling another team, whilst at the same time disabling ours. That's a double retrograde step.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2016, 03:44:36 PM
:)     

I hope nobody gives the lad as much as a dirty look, lest he get some mental injury.

 ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2016, 03:54:03 PM
Man City 0  Leicester City 3

20 mins to go.  Leicester are absolutely rampant......could have been a cricket score.

This is awesome.

It's too early to make big predictions.

But, I am starting to wonder if something really big is close to happening.

Every genuine football fan (apart from Spurs, City and Arsenal, of course), up and down the country, will be rooting for Leicester, in the final 13 games.

I'm a believer (singing my Monkees song)

It makes our 2-0 away defeat seem almost like a victory.

It goes to show that spending huge sums and buying great players in every position doesn't necessarily make a great team.
It's about blend. Players strengths and weaknesses complimenting each other so the overall has as few weaknesses as possible and maximum strength.
The players Raneiri has assembled fit the way he wants to play, excel at the way he wants to play and enjoy playing that way. If you enjoy doing something you're already quite good at, you'll be even better at it.

Their defence hasn't been given as much media attention as their attack, but to lose only two games so far this season shows that their defence must be as equally good as their attack, and their style of play must assist each aspect without even slightly undermining the other. Blend. Perfect blend.

The only problem I see is a lot of their games near the end of the season are against strugglers. It will be interesting to see how they deal with wholesale bus parking.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2016, 03:57:45 PM
Lovren off injured and Toure on to replace him. I'd have prefered to see Caulker, unless Klopp is saving him for West Ham, and is serious about beating progressing in the cup, despite the extra game(s) it would bring.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2016, 05:33:09 PM
I'd like to see Brad Smith given beyond the West Ham game and see if we've actually got an upgrade on Moreno, at least defensively.

Additionally, Real are again being strongly linked with a Summer move for Moreno. Something I can't see Moreno turning down if it happened.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2016, 05:34:15 PM
S.O.SD Steve Clarke.

Save Our Defence.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2016, 07:42:46 PM
hide the china.

Martin will be home soon.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 06, 2016, 07:45:03 PM
https://youtu.be/S9KXrRUZqtw (https://youtu.be/S9KXrRUZqtw)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on February 06, 2016, 09:44:45 PM
I hope to feck Ward plays in goal for the West Ham game...there's no point in Mignolet being there.
The 77 minute walk out was all well and good but it completely undermined our team. Next time we should wait til the 93 rd minute when we're 2-0 up. We might actually win then.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2016, 10:45:11 PM
You've got to hand it to all those millionaires out there on the pitch standing shoulder to shoulder with fans that earn a comparative pittance and withdrawing their labour after 77 minutes.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 06, 2016, 11:36:59 PM
The 77 minute walk out was all well and good but it completely undermined our team.

The players should have been able to see out the game. Home or away when the fans have been there the entire time they've folded or not even turned up to begin with.

It's not nice to see, but what is worse is fans feeling they have to do it.

The tv deal is huge, but all that will happen is it will disappear in inflated transfer fees and into the pockets of players and agents who already earn multi lottery win size salaries.

It would be far better to see clubs 'invest' some of that money in reducing ticket prices and allowing longstanding and hardcore fans, the type who don't want to sit there and 'be entertained' but will create the atmosphere, to keeping going and not being priced out.

It's no coincidence that as prices have risen and clubs try and make themselves more appealing to those with larger disposable incomes, the atmospheres have diminished.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on February 07, 2016, 01:22:11 AM
hide the china.

Martin will be home soon.

No worries mate. I was quite pleased with our performance. Fair enough, we should've won it 4-0 but it is what it is. Put together with the opening 60 against Leicester I feel we're on the right track. I won't be mislead by the results in the last two games but will look to the performance. In a way footy is sometimes like the Movie "Unbreakable" featuring Bruce Willis and Samuel Jackson. Where one is truly unbreakable the other is made of glass.

Leicester has everything going for them. Everything just goes in. They score from their first free-kick just 3 minutes into the game and from their 2nd corner. We, on the other hand have a 80-20 domination and created chance after chance but still draw against team destined for relegation.

I will look beyond the results. I'm indeed very encouraged by what I saw today and the first 60 against Leicester. I have no doubt in my mind we'll go through against West Ham. None whatsoever.

The one worry I have is the lack of quality and leadership in the center of the park. Can was actually having a good game today and so was Allen. Henderson though was horrible. I didn't see him complete one correct pass in the forward direction.

I think our wing play was better than it's been all season. We linked up well to use the space behind their fullbacks. It is a concern, of course, we're still 2-3 qualityplayers short of taking advantage of it.

I'm sober, sane and fully at peace with the idea the League is long gone. I'm already looking forward to next season. This allows me to see and appreciate things I wouldn't have otherwise.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 07, 2016, 01:49:44 AM
If you can see progress in terms of performance it's a positive. Ultimately over a season results will come with performances. There's always exceptions either way of course.

If we can get our attacking play to be consistent over the remainder of the season, then hopefully with a new keeper and a centre half we can see the defensive side improve. Hopefully as that happens and performances improve, and if we can keep a level of consistency, then hopefully the confidence will come too, and ultimately results will be positive and it becomes an ever increasing circle. 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 08:59:18 AM
The tv deal is huge, but all that will happen is it will disappear in inflated transfer fees and into the pockets of players and agents who already earn multi lottery win size salaries.

It would be far better to see clubs 'invest' some of that money in reducing ticket prices

It's no coincidence that as prices have risen and clubs try and make themselves more appealing to those with larger disposable incomes, the atmospheres have diminished.

Bayern Munich president Uli Hoeness has  accused Premier League clubs of 'milking their fans like cows' in charging high prices for season tickets.

Explaining his decision to keep season tickets at Bayern Munich lower than their counterparts across Europe, Hoeness said: "We could charge more than €130 (£104). Let's say we charged €380 (£300). We'd get €2.5m (£2m) more in income, but what's €2.5m to us?"

"In a transfer discussion you argue about the sum for five minutes. But the difference between €130 and €380 is huge for the fans."

"We do not think fans are like cows, who you milk. Football has got to be for everybody."

"That's the biggest difference between us and England."

Funnily enough, I had a German friend here, two weeks ago, staying locally with his girlfriend. 

We talked about football.  And he would ask me about the prices of seeing a premiership game.  Prices in Germany were far far lower.  They value their fans.

With Sky, and the start of the premiership, some 25 years ago, we now have loads of money in the football pot, and so many foreign owners.   

I got out (cancelled Sky) over 10 years ago.   Thus as a paying fan, I have been lost to the game for a long time.  I refuse to give my money to the barstewards.   If more folk did the same (both in grounds, and in living rooms) we'd maybe see a bit of sanity.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 09:01:53 AM
No worries mate. I was quite pleased with our performance. Fair enough, we should've won it 4-0 but it is what it is. Put together with the opening 60 against Leicester I feel we're on the right track. I won't be mislead by the results in the last two games but will look to the performance. In a way footy is sometimes like the Movie "Unbreakable" featuring Bruce Willis and Samuel Jackson. Where one is truly unbreakable the other is made of glass.

Leicester has everything going for them. Everything just goes in. They score from their first free-kick just 3 minutes into the game and from their 2nd corner. We, on the other hand have a 80-20 domination and created chance after chance but still draw against team destined for relegation.

I will look beyond the results. I'm indeed very encouraged by what I saw today and the first 60 against Leicester. I have no doubt in my mind we'll go through against West Ham. None whatsoever.

The one worry I have is the lack of quality and leadership in the center of the park. Can was actually having a good game today and so was Allen. Henderson though was horrible. I didn't see him complete one correct pass in the forward direction.

I think our wing play was better than it's been all season. We linked up well to use the space behind their fullbacks. It is a concern, of course, we're still 2-3 qualityplayers short of taking advantage of it.

I'm sober, sane and fully at peace with the idea the League is long gone. I'm already looking forward to next season. This allows me to see and appreciate things I wouldn't have otherwise.

early runner for the Most Unlikely Post of 2016.

OK, who the feck has hijacked Martin's account. 

Bart or Gurdeep, is that you???

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:29:05 PM
(http://i2.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10852101.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/JS82001491.jpg)

the protest was pretty close to the Directors Box yesterday.

Ian Ayre will have got the message.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:30:50 PM
(http://i2.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10852102.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/JS82001984.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Gurdeep on February 07, 2016, 02:32:07 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:33:24 PM
(http://i2.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10852014.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/JS81998353.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:35:14 PM
(http://i4.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10852015.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/JS81998961.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:38:35 PM
(http://i2.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10852016.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/JS81999341.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:40:16 PM
(http://i3.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10852023.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/JS81997409.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:44:10 PM
(http://i1.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10851508.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/JS81989542.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:45:13 PM
(http://i2.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10851509.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/JS81989546.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:46:39 PM
(http://i2.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10851271.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/JS81983517.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:47:51 PM
(http://i4.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10851272.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/JS81984409.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:50:22 PM
What The Papers Say: 'Unquestionably the most significant demonstration Anfield has witnessed' http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-what-papers-say-10853054 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-what-papers-say-10853054)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 02:55:01 PM
With this massive new TV Deal, what is in it for fans?

Higher prices at the stadium, that is what is in it for fans.   I saw one season ticket holder yesterday say in the papers, that his season ticket had gone up by 7 times, what he paid for it in 1989 (after inflation).

While I am very appreciative that our new expansion to Anfield is finally happening - everything else that FSG has done, has been exceptionally poor.

I did read (in one paper) that Man City fans also walked out on 77 minutes yesterday, in solidarity with us.....though not been able to confirm that in other media.

It is long since time that these types of protests were held.  And I wish fans across the country would now join us.

Hell, I'd have been also protesting for the decommissioning of the looney Transfer Committee.  I want more humility from FSG, and more respect for the club and people of the city.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 03:01:22 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-fan-protest-it-is-time-for-customers-to-fight-back-and-be-treated-as-fans-again-a6858106.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-fan-protest-it-is-time-for-customers-to-fight-back-and-be-treated-as-fans-again-a6858106.html)

good article - with some of the prices/numbers.

executive boxes - wow, fecking expensive......

"Allowing for wriggle room in the negotiating process – many first-team players currently share 10-seater  executive boxes which retail at around £75,000 despite being officially priced at £100,000 – that meant finding in the region of £300,000 a year. No deal.  No way. No how.

In the words of one source, who admitted he thought he was inured to the absurdities of football’s value  system: “The game really is going mad.”  His incredulity was shared by the owner of another executive box, who was offered an upgrade for £250,000 last July.

To put such figures into perspective, the most expensive box at Old Trafford is £175,000. Arsenal charge a top price of £150,000. Soaking the rich to assuage the poor may be an equitable economic principle, but in football the proceeds flow towards the shareholder rather than the spectator."
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on February 07, 2016, 03:24:41 PM
Another weak mentality showing yet again.

2-0 up against the 2nd or 3rd shittiest team in the league with 10 mins to go........We should be cruising home not drawing 2-2........weak........so so weak.

Apart from Clyne the rest of the back five need to go. Plus Skrtel. A strong and commanding GK seeps confidence throughout the team. A top quality CB who can defend increases confidence around the rest of the back line and to the midfield who will have assurance of knowing they can rely on the defence. Sakho I'd probably keep as a squad player.

Lucas is finished at the top level. Can, Henderson, Allen, Milner are identikit players. We only need two of them. The first two preferably. We then then two others around them. Grujic will be one and we'll need another.

Firmino blows hot and cold. He needs to add consistency however he was the only good player on show yesterday. He'll play better with better players. Lallana is the same but not as good as Firmino however certainly I'd keep him in the squad.

Benteke is useless - a lamp post offers better threat up front.

All four areas need improvement:- GK, defence, midfield, attack.

We can't improve on it in one transfer window so basically 16/17 will be yet another transitional season.

If Sturridge can play 80% of games from now to the end of the season then hopefully we can depend on him next season. However we certainly need another striker. Origi looked very good under Klopp and I feel Ings will also thrive under Klopp's style of play and management too. So I'd have no qualms with them staying.

Another plus is the good group of young players in the squad. Smith should be given an opportunity to make that LB slot his own. Moreno is basically Riise MKII both brainless defenders. We need an Aurelio. So I hope we give Smith a chance. Once Flanagan get his match fitness up then he will give Clyne good competition and can also play left back so is a valuable squad member.

Joe Gomez will be a class act and he should be given a chance to be our No.2 or No.3 centre back next season. He too can play at either full back position.

Ibe has a lot of developing still to do and I'd rather he work with Klopp to see him grow as a player.

The likes of Brannagan, Stewart, Kent, Ojo and Teixeira should stay and supplement the squad.

So basically over the next 2-3 transfer windows for us to get back to challenging for 4th let alone the title then Mignolet, Skrtel, Lovren, Moreno, Allen, Lucas, Milner, Enrique, Toure and Benteke all need to go.

I just hope Jurgen isn't pissed around by the T.C. this summer. A massive exodus is needed but only 3-4 players need to come in.

If It was me I'd try and get in GK, CB, LB, CM and a striker.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 04:24:43 PM
Another weak mentality showing yet again.

2-0 up against the 2nd or 3rd shittiest team in the league with 10 mins to go........We should be cruising home not drawing 2-2........weak........so so weak.

Apart from Clyne the rest of the back five need to go. Plus Skrtel. A strong and commanding GK seeps confidence throughout the team. A top quality CB who can defend increases confidence around the rest of the back line and to the midfield who will have assurance of knowing they can rely on the defence. Sakho I'd probably keep as a squad player.


I agree with all of that.

Re our keeper.  Why oh why oh why have we given Mignolet a new long term contract.  Is anyone in Liverpool, or Britain, or the rest of the planet, able to explain why.   Have you ever personally met anyone (on this planet, or any other planet, or universe) who agrees with this decision?



Lucas is finished at the top level. Can, Henderson, Allen, Milner are identikit players. We only need two of them. The first two preferably. We then then two others around them. Grujic will be one and we'll need another.

agreed.  Build around Can and Henderson.

I have been saying it for several years - the midfielders we have been bringing in, are not scorers.  Even if our so-called Chief Scout could look at wikipedia (like I do) he would see that folk like Allen and Milner do not score, or threaten to score, ever ever ever ever in their careers. 

It is no surprise that we are finding it so hard to score goals.


Firmino blows hot and cold. He needs to add consistency however he was the only good player on show yesterday. He'll play better with better players. Lallana is the same but not as good as Firmino however certainly I'd keep him in the squad.

Benteke is useless - a lamp post offers better threat up front.

If It was me I'd try and get in GK, CB, LB, CM and a striker.

Benteke and lamp post a better threat - I claim my copyright on this one.   :)

I don't agree on Sturridge.   If some nutter pays us decent money, let him go.  He is an injury waiting to happen.   Enough is enough.  A big club cannot hang around waiting on a single player, to maybe be fit to play.

And Lallana, I'd lump him in with Milner and Allen.  He offers no threat.  He cannot score, nor can he provide much.   I'd sell him.

Firmino has wonderful potential.  Countinho too.  But as young lads, they are inconsistent.  No surprise though, given the woeful talent around them.

The one bright lining, to another sh.i.t.ty season, is that Barcelona will now have no interest in Continho this summer.

 
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 04:52:37 PM
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/78b526191fba892be6f9b159e42079af1fedac08/0_187_3600_2160/master/3600.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=1f5177b0c30a010d447cce7968bd9731)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/07/liverpool-fans-warn-further-action-walkout-ticket-pricing (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/07/liverpool-fans-warn-further-action-walkout-ticket-pricing)

Liverpool fans warn of further action after walkout over ticket pricing     
• Fans left match against Sunderland early in pricing protest
• This is just the start, warn angry Liverpool supporters

“We are happy with yesterday’s demonstration and we are pleased with the number of supporters who took part,” Jay McKenna told Press Association Sport. “The moment which preceded the walkout also showed the strength of feeling, with the very loud, audible chants aimed at the directors’ box.

“But the protest was aimed just as much at the owners because the decision of the prices is one made by Fenway Sports Group and the ownership of the club. It is a good indication that supporters are very angry at prices and this will just be the start of taking more action.”
   
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 04:56:41 PM
"You greedy bounders, enough is enough" is the chant currently ringing around Anfield.

I saw this chant reported in the newspapers last night.  And here, it was (above) on the Times  Tony Barrett's twitter account.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 07, 2016, 06:01:40 PM
It's all fine the likes of Ayre coming out and defending the owners with a mixture of the patronising and bordering on threatening, but the thing his like seem to miss is that we all know that all that extra money will simply end up going in even more inflated transfer fees (as though they aren't already bordering on the farcical), ever higher pay awards and inflated agents' fees.

Tickets are already too high as a percentage of the average fan/family's income, yet every year they come asking for more. Maybe football's awash with ever increasing amounts of cash, but for the world that fans live in the polar opposite is true for all but the very highest earners, and not all those are likely to be football fans or are there enough to spread around all the clubs and make any sort of noticeable impact.

Match day income is falling as there are far more and far more lucrative sources of income for football clubs than in years gone by.

What exactly are fans getting extra for all the extra money that's comparatively being asked? They throw out the 'football experience' crock, but then associate that with what's available around the ground and on 'the concourses'. Ayre talks about fans wanting the best facilities. What exactly is that and how does he even know?

The football experience is about the 90 minutes on the pitch. What the team does. How it plays. How it responds. Players looking like they at least have the first idea of the basics of their position and then role within the team. Turning up and giving 100%. Not being out on the town the night of a shocking performance, or the bench laughing and giggling like there's anything to feel 'up' about whilst a horror show of football unfolds on the pitch. That's far more important than stadium side shows and the like.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 06:16:53 PM
"You greedy bounders, enough is enough" is the chant currently ringing around Anfield.

I saw this chant reported in the newspapers last night.  And here, it was (above) on the Times  Tony Barrett's twitter account.

oops, just noticing that Jim's forum filter changed the bad word.

lest any doubt, the Anfield crowd were using the word similar to barstewards - not bounders.  :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 06:23:14 PM
Ayre.....the thing his like seem to miss is that we all know that all that extra money will simply end up going in even more inflated transfer fees (as though they aren't already bordering on the farcical), ever higher pay awards and inflated agents' fees.

Tickets are already too high as a percentage of the average fan/family's income, yet every year they come asking for more.

Match day income is falling as there are far more and far more lucrative sources of income for football clubs than in years gone by.

absolutely.

the football industry may be awash with money - but the fan's homes are not.

pay freezes, year on year, for many years, is the norm.

and yet, football keeps getting moee and more expensive to watch.    It is lunacy.

Football owners are milking the fan for every last penny they can screw out of them.

As the fans yesterday said - enough is enough.

I hope our action catches on, across the country, like a wild fire.

As you say, the stadium revenue now is peanuts compared to what clubs earn elsewhere on other revenue streams.

Uli Hoeness was on the same page too, re revenue streams at his club, Bayern.  Sure he could treble ticket prices, and get another 2 million euros each game....but as he says, they would end up giving that 2 million away in a few minutes when discussing some new transfer fee, or wages.  And that money may mean very little to the player or club, but as Hoeness said, it means a helluva lot to the fan at the turnstile.

Tell you what though - regardless of the rights or wrongs, on both sides.....yesterday was a PR disaster for the club and it's owners.   I imagine they will not be best pleased with Ayre.  Not that he is anything more than a puppet to their demands.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 07, 2016, 06:24:29 PM
oops, just noticing that Jim's forum filter changed the bad word.

lest any doubt, the Anfield crowd were using the word similar to barstewards - not bounders.  :)

'Bounders'. There's a quaint old saying. I wonder if c--ts gets changed to 'cads'. And do we have 'ruffians' and 'rascals' in there too?  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 07, 2016, 06:26:44 PM
'Bounders'. There's a quaint old saying. I wonder if c--ts gets changed to 'cads'. And do we have 'ruffians' and 'rascals' in there too?  ;D

 :)

I say old boy, jolly bad form yesterday.

the bounders don't like it up em.  A bunch of cads, I say.

the rascals and ruffians fled with their tail between their legs.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 07, 2016, 06:29:34 PM
If It was me I'd try and get in GK, CB, LB, CM and a striker.

I know that's what ultimately needs changing, no argument there, but 5 new first eleven starters is a big ask to integrate in one go, unless I've misunderstood you, and if so I apologise. Sundays always make me a bit 'slow' for some reason.

Like you mentioned earlier in your post, I'd be much more inclined to make the changes over 2 to 3 windows.

It's hard as it requires patience from everyone.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 08, 2016, 01:50:10 AM
Liverpool FC boss Jurgen Klopp set for surprise return

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-boss-jurgen-klopp-10854608 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-boss-jurgen-klopp-10854608)

Will Studge be able to look him in the eyes?  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 08, 2016, 10:35:38 PM
Man City star to miss vital games against Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool with another injury

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/642304/Liverpool-Man-City-David-Silva-Transfer-News-Gossip (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/642304/Liverpool-Man-City-David-Silva-Transfer-News-Gossip)

"City boss Manuel Pellegrini was far from optimistic on Silva, who has joined Vincent Kompany, Kevin De Bruyne, Jesus Navas, Wilfried Bony, Samir Nasri and Eliaquim Mangala on the treatment table."

Now if Aguero could just come down with one of his regular injuries, and the two I've emboldened could remain on the treatment table, then we may be on to something.

Play Flanno and let him hit Sterling really hard first tackle and do a Carra.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 08, 2016, 11:00:53 PM
Cameron Brannagan will miss tomorrow's game against West Ham, which is a massive shame. Hopefully he gets other chances to stake a claim during the remainder of the season.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on February 09, 2016, 06:41:09 PM
I know that's what ultimately needs changing, no argument there, but 5 new first eleven starters is a big ask to integrate in one go, unless I've misunderstood you, and if so I apologise. Sundays always make me a bit 'slow' for some reason.

Like you mentioned earlier in your post, I'd be much more inclined to make the changes over 2 to 3 windows.

It's hard as it requires patience from everyone.

TBH Tes I think we are that bad and in need to attention in all areas of the field that 5 incoming players is needed. However I don't think Jurgen will have the same viewpoint as I as I expect Mignolet and Moreno to be regulars next season. Really 7 or 8 new players are needed but I'd only get in 5 this summer and the rest over the next couple of windows.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on February 09, 2016, 06:42:43 PM
So Lucas and Ilori as centre backs, Stewart, Chirivella and Teixeira in midfield........Definitely think Klopp is doing a Rafa in terms of throwing away the FA Cup the first year.

Which is a shame in some ways and not surprising in others.



Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 09, 2016, 07:17:47 PM
So Lucas and Ilori as centre backs, Stewart, Chirivella and Teixeira in midfield........Definitely think Klopp is doing a Rafa in terms of throwing away the FA Cup the first year.

Which is a shame in some ways and not surprising in others.

Is Caulker injured as he's not cup-tied, as it seems odd to risk and play Lucas as a centre back - and what about Carroll's threat as he is on West Ham's bench.

I guess he's placing the FA Cup lower down the list of priorities.

One game way from a trophy and European qualification in the League Cup, and CL qualification for winning the UEFA Cup and as either through the league looks a long way off, then by a process of elimination the FA Cup at this moment in time comes 4th.
A victory tonight, a win at Blackburn on 21st Feb and defeat to City on 28th Feb and the FA Cup will move rapidly up the list.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 09, 2016, 07:21:30 PM
TBH Tes I think we are that bad and in need to attention in all areas of the field that 5 incoming players is needed. However I don't think Jurgen will have the same viewpoint as I as I expect Mignolet and Moreno to be regulars next season. Really 7 or 8 new players are needed but I'd only get in 5 this summer and the rest over the next couple of windows.

I totally agree about the need and as you say 5 is being generous, even 7 or 8 is still being kind.

Within the best 11 we can field, how many would not sensibly need upgrading, and within the squad, how many are on the list of 'definitely keep'.

If Klopp could integrate 5 new first 11 players in one go that would be great.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on February 09, 2016, 07:41:32 PM
Leaving aside Sturridge I'd say the only players we have that don't need upgrading are Clyne, Henderson, Coutinho and Firmino and even Firmino is a stretch as he needs more consistency.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 09, 2016, 08:45:25 PM
Leaving aside Sturridge I'd say the only players we have that don't need upgrading are Clyne, Henderson, Coutinho and Firmino and even Firmino is a stretch as he needs more consistency.

Agreed. Firmino, I'll give a pass to as I'm sure we'll see a more consistent player with better options around and in front of him (depending on position played). Coutinho also could do with raising his consistency levels but the required ability is there with them both which sadly can't be said for most of our squad.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 09, 2016, 10:41:11 PM
Whilst it's a shame to a degree at least it means we won't have 3 games in 10 days before the League Cup Final, and whilst we will have to play on the Thursday before (25th Feb) in the UEFA Cup, we will at least have had a week between the two UEFA Cup games.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 12, 2016, 05:50:52 PM
(http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6119985.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/PAY-Benteke-signs-for-Liverpool.jpg)

Christian Benteke ranks 13th at Liverpool for distance covered per 90 minutes and 11th for high-intensity sprints per 90 minutes.

Benteke averages far fewer sprints per 90 minutes (47.3) than the likes of Roberto Firmino (73.84) and Philippe Coutinho (58.16). He is also no match for Liverpool's other forwards when it comes to recovering possession.

Liverpool ball recoveries - times a player recovered a ball (won a tackle) divided by minutes played - Benteke is the worst of our attacking players - 41.8 minutes per recovery.     Our best Firmino recovers the ball every 13.4 minutes.

The Belgian has missed clear-cut scoring opportunities in eight of his 21 league appearances, and his clear-cut chance conversion rate stands at just 20 per cent. It's the lowest at Liverpool, and of the 17 players to have had 10 or more clear-cut chances in the Premier League, only Theo Walcott and Sadio Mane have been more wasteful.

Despite all his manager's defiance, perhaps it's no coincidence that Benteke played a total of just 39 minutes in Liverpool's best three performances of the season - the 3-1 win at Chelsea, the 4-1 thrashing of Manchester City, and the 6-1 demolition of Southampton.

full article at 
 http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10163476/whats-gone-wrong-for-benteke (http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10163476/whats-gone-wrong-for-benteke)

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 12, 2016, 06:00:38 PM
a very damning article.

the data in it, confirms what our eyes have been telling us.

technically very poor - not someone who runs, or tracks back, or recovers the ball, or is dynamic.

I suspect Klopp will sell him on this summer.

Tes, our suspicions may be right - he may be a distant member of the George Weah family.   :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 13, 2016, 11:07:57 PM
Tes, our suspicions may be right - he may be a distant member of the George Weah family.   :)

He's George Weah's Father's Grand Son via an illicit rendezvous. Allegedly.

There's a rather long call to a number listed as belonging to Graeme Souness on Rodgers' phone bill a week or so before Rodgers convinced the committee and owners to pay the release clause.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 14, 2016, 06:04:19 PM
We're actually into a positive goal difference.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 14, 2016, 07:50:37 PM
We're actually into a positive goal difference.

Leicester, here we come!

Villa near shat themselves when we brought Benteke on when we were six up.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 14, 2016, 10:13:54 PM
Leicester, here we come!

Villa near shat themselves when we brought Benteke on when we were six up.

Hopefully this can start a run of good performances, culminating in a win at Wembley on 28th February, and that good run sees us progress into the next round of the UEFA Cup.

I hope we field a good strong team on Thursday against Augsburg and put the tie to bed then, allowing us to rest a few in the return leg, with City only three days afterwards. After the 28th, the UEFA Cup should become priority, as not only does it look less of a difficult task than the league, but we'd win a trophy also. I'd rather qualify for the CL by winning something than doing so by finishing outside of the podium positions.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 15, 2016, 02:33:25 PM
Under pressure Steve McClaren, after Newcastle's 5-1 drubbing versus Chelsea.

“We knew this period was coming, and we’ve planned for it,” said McClaren.....after the 5-1 defeat.

“We hope to be in a better condition – mentally and physically – in 18 days time."   So set your calendars.

“We didn’t deal with the ball very well, and usually we have a team of footballers who can deal with the ball."

“They didn’t – they gave the ball away too many times, and then it’s difficult to recover back into shape. They punished us because we didn’t deal with the ball and handle it as well as we should have done."

But we’re losing games because we’re not scoring enough goals and we’re not keeping clean sheets. We have to somehow solve that.”

A bizarre interview.  I have highlighted the worst parts of it.

I wonder if he did it in his dutch accent....or maybe he does a good Geordie accent these days.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 15, 2016, 02:44:19 PM
Hopefully this can start a run of good performances, culminating in a win at Wembley on 28th February, and that good run sees us progress into the next round of the UEFA Cup.

I hope we field a good strong team on Thursday against Augsburg and put the tie to bed then, allowing us to rest a few in the return leg, with City only three days afterwards. After the 28th, the UEFA Cup should become priority, as not only does it look less of a difficult task than the league, but we'd win a trophy also. I'd rather qualify for the CL by winning something than doing so by finishing outside of the podium positions.

yes, for this season, I would now like to see us win the League Cup (priority number one), do well in the Europa League (winning it would be the icing on the cake); and finish above United in the league.

As you say, it would be nice to put the Europa League tie to bed in the first leg.

Our priority has to be that City final at the end of the month.  City are not playing terribly well - and injuries have made them very ordinary right now.  Very poor for a team of their value.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 15, 2016, 03:24:22 PM
With Leicester losing that late goal at the Emirates, it is now tight at the top.  2 points separate the top three teams.

An amazing season is unfolding. 

Man United, Chelsea and Liverpool nowhere to be seen.....no Champions League football for any of those three big clubs next season.

Who would have guessed that Leicester and Spurs would occupy the top two spots in mid February.

With City looking weak in 4th.

The top four are now threatening to break away from the rest of the premeir league.   I'd love to see us overtake United by the season end. 

And on the topic of United.  I always said that regardless of the manager that United employed, he would not be Ferguson.  An impossible man to replace. 

If the rumours are true, that Mourinho is going to take over,  then their fans better get used to defensive, nasty, ill-willed, football.   Personally, I think United could do a  lot worse than bring in that superb Spurs manager.  He did a fantastic job at Southampton.  And he is doing the same at Spurs.  A top manager.  And with his whole career ahead of him.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 15, 2016, 11:41:06 PM
I wonder if he did it in his dutch accent....or maybe he does a good Geordie accent these days.

 ;D

It's like he translates it into a foreign language and then translates it back into English, and things get lost in both translations.

Steve McClaren, aka Babelfish.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 15, 2016, 11:52:26 PM
But we’re losing games because we’re not scoring enough goals and we’re not keeping clean sheets. We have to somehow solve that.”

So he's discovered the not so secret reason you lose, but just like Rodgers, and it does sound very familiar and similar to something Brendan would have stated, he is clueless as to how to change it.

I guess as he's also realised that he was able to see that "it would have been coming".

As you say, Dude, it's totally bizarre, but then most of Ashley's managerial appointments have been and he seems incapable of identifying the problem and correcting it, in common with the managers he appoints.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 17, 2016, 06:20:45 PM
;D

It's like he translates it into a foreign language and then translates it back into English, and things get lost in both translations.

Steve McClaren, aka Babelfish.

 :)

I don't think he can ever live down that interview in Holland, where he spoke english in a dutch style.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 17, 2016, 06:27:32 PM
So he's discovered the not so secret reason you lose, but just like Rodgers, and it does sound very familiar and similar to something Brendan would have stated, he is clueless as to how to change it.

I guess as he's also realised that he was able to see that "it would have been coming".

As you say, Dude, it's totally bizarre, but then most of Ashley's managerial appointments have been and he seems incapable of identifying the problem and correcting it, in common with the managers he appoints.

agreed, Tes.

when an owner or chief exec keeps continually sacking under-performing managers, then the problem lies with the owner or chief exec.

yes, McClaren is good for the comedy value.

I bet bar codes fans will be relieved to learn that their manager, despite being not able to do anything about it, at least foresaw this awful period of results coming.   I bet that makes it all the easier to cope with.  :)

And they will also be thankful to learn that their man knows that winning is all about scoring more than one's team concedes.

Some folk are awful in front of a camera/microphone.  They (e.g. Rodgers, McClaren) think they are media savvy and thus they endlessly rabbit on, in preacher like tones.  But they just talk around in riddles and the usual cliches....spraying around irrational notions of upbeat and positivity.

They end up just talking themselves into a corner.   


Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 17, 2016, 06:30:46 PM
PS check your private messages.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on February 18, 2016, 09:08:35 PM
Augsburg 0 - 0 Liverpool HT. Surely everyone can now agree our captain isn't good enough. Our central midfiled is holding the team back. Not good enough. Fail to put in the energy and quality needed to help activate the front three.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on February 18, 2016, 10:12:52 PM
Barely broke sweat, all the injured players get more game time, everyone else is intact, they barely threatened us, and the lads are currently getting ready for a decent night out in Bavaria before a leisurely weekend and a bit of light training. Classic 1970's away performance. We'll do them next week.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 18, 2016, 10:57:44 PM
like days of old, barely breaking sweat (as Edward says above), we held our own and come away with a straightforward 0-0 draw.

Great signs of the Hendo-Can midfield partnership taking shape.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on February 19, 2016, 02:18:51 PM
like days of old, barely breaking sweat (as Edward says above), we held our own and come away with a straightforward 0-0 draw.

Great signs of the Hendo-Can midfield partnership taking shape.

In what sense? Henderson was a 4, Can started a 4 ended up a 5. Our central midfield is our main issue. It really hold the team back. I'm Confident Klopp realise Henderson's no captain, let alone iron-cast starter and Can will need Another season or two to reach the level required to propel the team up a few notches.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 19, 2016, 09:40:06 PM
I just wish we could have put the tie to bed last night, and rested a few next Thursday in readiness for Sunday's final.
Be free to focus on beating City and at least guaranteeing some sort of European football, whilst making sure we were all but in the next round as we aim to upgrade the European football to CL level.

Also, could have given one or two of the younger lads a taste of European football to further their education and experience.

Hopefully having to be fully focused for the return leg (as an away goal for them could prove costly for us) on Thursday will extend for a few more days into Sunday.

In terms of mentality it's still a worry for me as to whether we'll turn up next Sunday or not.

The fans need big performances over the next two games too.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 19, 2016, 10:47:14 PM
yes, I think that is why Klopp and a few others were so down last night. 

it was a chance to put the tie to bed.

now we have two massive games in the space of three days
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 19, 2016, 10:51:23 PM
It's so frustrating when the players follow up a win like the one at Villa with an insipid performance like last night's.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 25, 2016, 05:02:03 PM
Liverpool: Mignolet, Clyne, Lucas, Sakho, Moreno, Can, Henderson, Milner, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge

Subs: Ward, Toure, Benteke, Origi, Smith, Teixeira, Chirivella


It's good to see a strong team out tonight. We couldn't risk trying to save the strongest team for Sunday, and then going out tonight and losing on Sunday. That would have all but snuffed out any chance of European football for next season.

This way if we go through tonight but lose on Sunday, we still have a chance of both a trophy and European football.

Hopefully, every player picked will turn up both tonight and on Sunday. My biggest worry is that we see a repeat of the pathetic showing in last season's Wembley appearance again this Sunday.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on February 25, 2016, 05:42:36 PM
I have ticket to the final so hope not!  ;D

Alas I doubt we will see a repeat of that shameful performance due to the opposition. Yes we may lose but I won't be down to our own ineptitude as the semi-final last year it'll be because city were better.

But I am happy Jurgen is playing a strong team tonight as it is the right approach. The players don't need to travel so that is out the equation plus have 2 full days after this to prepare. Plus we struggled against bloody carlisle and exeter with a weakened team and no team in europe at this stage are push overs so start with a strong team.

Hopefully we smash them in the first half get a couple of goals and then after 60-70 mins we can sub players out like Sturridge.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on February 25, 2016, 07:57:41 PM
We huffed and puffed but we are through to the next round.

Although if we don't take our chances in the next round we'll be going out.

To think some supporters wanted us to play a weakened team tonight. We aren't good enough to take such liberties in europe. We have to play our strongest team.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 25, 2016, 10:22:38 PM
To think some supporters wanted us to play a weakened team tonight.

Inherently it's what we do each week.  ;D

I think the fact that Klopp's not a British manager is a huge plus where any European competition is concerned.

Our teams (English ones) seem to be the only ones that see the UEFA Cup as a burden rather than a blessing as it gives a chance of silverware. How any club or football fan can't want to win a trophy is just bizarre.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 25, 2016, 11:02:25 PM
Jan Molby: Liverpool FC win over Augsburg a classic pre-final game - now Klopp must use Etihad win as Wembley template

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jan-molby-liverpool-fc-win-10952269 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jan-molby-liverpool-fc-win-10952269)

Reading the first part of the headline brings back memories.

Years ago, quite often we'd look scruffy or scrappy in the game before a final or other huge game, and if you thought of it as the dress rehearsal, you'd dread the carnage you'd therefore expect from the opening night.

Now we've put in two 'huff and puff' performances since tonking Villa, hopefully Sunday will see us come back to life with a bang, only to be as dreadful in the next league game after Sunday, as we were good in the final.
With the way the season's been, I'll settle for that scenario.
Even a scruffy or tight 'just managed to edge our way past City' type performance will do, as getting that first trophy for Klopp, and for quite a few of the squad, and guaranteeing European football, could well see an improvement over the rest of the season.
Klopp may feel freer to try a few different things and maybe players in the rest of the league games, and the UEFA Cup won't have the pressure of being either 'our only chance of a trophy', or 'our only hope of European qualification'.

Leicester have shown what playing without the pressure of expectation can produce, and whilst we will never be free of the pressure of expectation, there's a better sort of pressure about playing for your 2nd trophy of the season than your 'only chance of a trophy'. Likewise in the league, the pressure of "having to get 5th, as we'll definitely fail to get 4th" will also no longer be present. Maybe that will allow Klopp to lay more groundwork for next season than if the pressure's still on to get 5th or above.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on February 26, 2016, 09:20:10 AM
I'm not sure though, Tes, I agree with the huff'n puff description of last night's performance. Quite to the contrary I'd say first half, and especially the first 30 minutes, was brilliant. We moved the ball with purpuse, kept running and winning the ball back high up the pitch. We even created several good chances.

I would agree though the last half hour adds to the impression it was a somewhat scrappy win. But in all reality there were a gulf in class between the two sides underlined by the fact Lucas was their most dangerous player.

On an individual level I can only hope your pre-final logic applies to Firmino as he was back to his most careless and sloppy of performances.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 26, 2016, 11:20:19 AM
But in all reality there were a gulf in class between the two sides underlined by the fact Lucas was their most dangerous player.

I'm detecting some negative vibes towards Lord Lucas.

Great to see a clean sheet, especially since Lucas is only a stand in centre-back.

How many clean sheets have Lovren, Kolo Toure or Mamadou Sakho had, one wonders.

Caso Cerrado - Case closed. 

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on February 26, 2016, 02:25:57 PM
I'm detecting some negative vibes towards Lord Lucas.

Great to see a clean sheet, especially since Lucas is only a stand in centre-back.

How many clean sheets have Lovren, Kolo Toure or Mamadou Sakho had, one wonders.

Caso Cerrado - Case closed.

No negative vibes at all mate. But it remains a fact three of their most dangerous chances fell from misplaced passes from and a pretty stupid free-kick. Other than that, I thought he and Sakho marshalled the defence pretty solidly.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 26, 2016, 02:34:49 PM
Liverpool to play Manchester United in Europa League last 16 ......first leg at Anfield, 10th March...second leg, Old Trafford, 17th March.

Liverpool and Manchester United have never met before in European competition.

Jürgen Klopp said he was excited at the prospect of meeting United over two legs. “It’s great. We deserve these games. I told my staff yesterday that I wanted Man Utd,” he said.

Louis van Gaal’s team are scheduled to play West Ham in the FA Cup quarter-finals between both legs, with a trip to Manchester City three days after the second leg.

Liverpool, on the other hand, have the weekend between free having been knocked out of the FA Cup by West Ham.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 27, 2016, 02:21:02 PM
Come on Leicester!

These next 5 games, starting today, are crucial (as are all the remaining games, come to think of it).

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 27, 2016, 02:55:26 PM
Jurgen Klopp didn’t want to talk tactics at Melwood on Friday afternoon.

“Even in Manchester they have televisions,” the Liverpool boss joked as he kept his Wembley battle plan close to his chest.

 :) :) :)
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 27, 2016, 04:57:29 PM
Victory.  1-0   89th minute goal.

We're on the march with Raneira's Army.

We're gonna to the Argentine.

And we'll really shake them up.

When we win the world cup.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 28, 2016, 01:14:32 PM
Liverpool to play Manchester United in Europa League last 16 ......first leg at Anfield, 10th March...second leg, Old Trafford, 17th March.

Liverpool and Manchester United have never met before in European competition.

Jürgen Klopp said he was excited at the prospect of meeting United over two legs. “It’s great. We deserve these games. I told my staff yesterday that I wanted Man Utd,” he said.

Louis van Gaal’s team are scheduled to play West Ham in the FA Cup quarter-finals between both legs, with a trip to Manchester City three days after the second leg.

Liverpool, on the other hand, have the weekend between free having been knocked out of the FA Cup by West Ham.

Brilliant chance to stop them completing the set of all 3 European trophies, something we can never do with the Cup Winners Cup being defunct.
Also, we can stop their most likely way of getting CL football for next season.

The less they appear in the CL, the less likely they are to get the better players and hopefully their demise can truly set in.

Klopp would get sainted if we win the UEFA Cup having dumped the Mancs out on the way.

If we can get to the final, I'd love Valencia there with us. How sweet would it be to deprive Neville of of his first trophy. It would be the sweetest UEFA Cup win yet.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 28, 2016, 01:26:33 PM
Klopp will learn even more about the character of individual players this afternoon. Those who don't turn up or deal with the pressure of a final could see themselves out of the door in the Summer.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 28, 2016, 02:16:00 PM
Come on Leicester!

These next 5 games, starting today, are crucial (as are all the remaining games, come to think of it).

I know people will they had no European football to distract them and they're out of the cups etc, but when we were in that situation we still failed to win the league with 'bigger' name players.

It goes to show that having the right players, that compliment each other in the particular partnerships there are on a football pitch, and having the right balance and blend throughout the team will ultimately achieve more than a 'collection' of brilliant players.

Raneiri would have had his team drilled to play out those last few seconds against Chelsea, and wouldn't have surrendered a 3-0 lead trying to overturn a ridiculous goal difference scenario, and would have tightened things up after Palace's first goal to make sure the priority of getting the three points was achieved.

Ranieri has had his team prepared to achieve the three points, game after game, in whatever way was required.
He's not tried to make situations fit his 'utopian ideal' or force his 'philosophy' to fit every game irrespective of what's actually happening on the pitch, and the Leicester players have shown a great individual and collective mentality, and they've turned up for every game, irrespective of the opponent.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 28, 2016, 02:44:54 PM
Brilliant chance to stop them completing the set of all 3 European trophies, something we can never do with the Cup Winners Cup being defunct.
Also, we can stop their most likely way of getting CL football for next season.

The less they appear in the CL, the less likely they are to get the better players and hopefully their demise can truly set in.

Klopp would get sainted if we win the UEFA Cup having dumped the Mancs out on the way.

If we can get to the final, I'd love Valencia there with us. How sweet would it be to deprive Neville of of his first trophy. It would be the sweetest UEFA Cup win yet.

agreed, Tes.  United fans are going to have to get used to a scenario (like the one we found ourselves in, when the dominant era was over).  Without Fergie, they are a regular club.....one that is merely one of several, and might win a league only once in a while.

What odds would you have got in August, of both Chelsea and United missing out on CL places, and even missing out on Europa League spots. 

Yes, wouldn't it be delicious, to beat Neville's Valencia. 

I think our week of rest, prior to the second leg at Old Trafford, could be the difference.   And at Old Trafford, they would be expected to be more open and come at us.....perfect recipe for our fresher legs, to hassle and hussle them into a major defeat (ala our 4-1 versus Man City).
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 28, 2016, 02:45:47 PM
Klopp will learn even more about the character of individual players this afternoon. Those who don't turn up or deal with the pressure of a final could see themselves out of the door in the Summer.

yes, I think Klopp will be very unforgiving of those who hide, or do not give their all, today.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 28, 2016, 02:50:35 PM
Ranieri has had his team prepared to achieve the three points, game after game, in whatever way was required.

He's not tried to make situations fit his 'utopian ideal' or force his 'philosophy' to fit every game irrespective of what's actually happening on the pitch, and the Leicester players have shown a great individual and collective mentality, and they've turned up for every game, irrespective of the opponent.

absolutely.  He's got less ego, and is happy to be in the background.

Three points are what he's after - and whatever fair means to get them, is fine.

As you say, a wonderful collective mentality - and a great balance.   Reminds me of the way Rafa put a team together- with great balance. 

Spurs or Leicester winning the league would be amazing, and a wonderful injection of hope to english football.   Of course, I think nearly all of us are pining for Leicester.  The stuff of fairytales.  If they can pull it off, the lads in that team/squad will never ever have to buy another round of drinks in Leicester again, in their lifetimes.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 28, 2016, 07:41:03 PM
absolutely.  He's got less ego, and is happy to be in the background.

Three points are what he's after - and whatever fair means to get them, is fine.

As you say, a wonderful collective mentality - and a great balance.   Reminds me of the way Rafa put a team together- with great balance. 

Spurs or Leicester winning the league would be amazing, and a wonderful injection of hope to english football.   Of course, I think nearly all of us are pining for Leicester.  The stuff of fairytales.  If they can pull it off, the lads in that team/squad will never ever have to buy another round of drinks in Leicester again, in their lifetimes.

The good thing is that everything points towards Klopp having the same outlook regards 'building' a team, rather than just collecting players and then trying to figure out  how to assemble a team from the collection of players.

He won't buy the best players or see money as the solution, but he'll buy the most suitable players and build a squad of players that compliment each other and blend together as a unit.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on February 28, 2016, 10:25:59 PM
I know we were doomed after Oliver blew the whistle for ET. It's amazing how many finals we've won on penalties so it was just our turn to come up emptyhanded.

It was a fairly good game to watch but once again our CM came up short. Henderson just isn't a captain, nor the dynamo this team so desperately need. Milner isn't good enough, enough said on that one. And Firmino really look like a true Brendan Rodgers signing. Extremly critical of Klopp for keeping him on for so long despite being completely and utterly useless. Mignolet ah well, don't get me started.

I thought Kolo was superb alongside the fantastic Lucas. Also like Origi.

We do defend a lot better as of lately and although they created a lot of chances almost all of them resulted from us chasing a goal at the other end. We're lightyears from where we were 24 months ago where we scored 3 goals/game for fun.  We do seem to be unable to capitalise on our improving ability to win back the ball high up the pitch. IMHO, the reason for this is our CM is mentally too weak while at the same time lacking the quality to pin opposition down.

It'll end up a disastrous season as I cannot see us get past the mancs while I'll stick with my prediction we'll finish somewhere 7-10. The only positive is we'll be able to focus solely on the league next season.

How did we become such an average club?
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on February 28, 2016, 11:07:01 PM
Agreed Martin as I thought Lucas and Toure played really well...we have moved on from panic in our defence but let's face it Mignolet should not be our first choice keeper. To give him credit though he did then keep us in the game. He's hugely frustrating but i just dont think he has the strength in his hands to keep balls out.
Lallana made a huge difference and should have been brought on for a thoroughly crap Firmino asap. I think the pairing of coutinho AND firmino is a luxury.
Sorry but Henderson and Milner are not our future and as soon as both are replaced the more the better.
All in all, we rode our luck and then played well after 70 minutes or so and should have buried them.
No disgrace going out on penalties as lets face it we've had good fortune there before.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: barticus on February 28, 2016, 11:16:20 PM
Sarah Winterburn pretty much says it all...


'When your best player over 120 minutes is the goalkeeper solely responsible for the opposition’s only goal, it’s fair to say that you have failed to produce a performance worthy of a cup final. Simon Mignolet’s only real competition for that ‘accolade’ was a combative midfielder playing out of position at centre-half. Liverpool’s perceived weaknesses were rare strengths on a day when their lack of real quality was painfully laid bare.

The first 83 minutes with not a single shot on target despite dominating possession against a sloppy Manchester City side will be Exhibit A in Jurgen Klopp’s campaign to make significant changes this summer. Significant not in terms of quantity – his comment that “seven sounds a lot” when discussing Liverpool’s previous summer business revealed much – but significant in terms of quality. This deeply average squad of players needs an upgrade.

Liverpool have a captain who would be a useful squad player at any of the clubs they should be battling for the title; they have a vice captain who was a useful squad player at one of those clubs. Together they do not have the vision and creativity of the man they have replaced as captain and player. Together they epitomise this Liverpool side. Honest, good professionals but not men to build a team around. They are career followers thrust into leadership.

Henderson touched the ball more times at Wembley than any other player on the pitch and yet I cannot recall any of those 107 touches. I remember some enthusiastic pointing, some vehement appealing and some excellent running after Philippe Coutinho when he scored his equaliser, but there’s a gap where memories of a captain’s performance in a cup final should be.

When your ‘leaders’ are so uninspiring, you almost forgive Coutinho for his anonymity before the goal, Roberto Firmino for his fade to grey after a fizzing start, Daniel Sturridge for being infuriatingly wasteful in possession and Milner for simply being Milner. Robbie Savage spoke about Liverpool’s vice-captain in glowing terms as a 7/10 player in a way that only a 6/10 player can. But Liverpool are not a 7/10 club and the fans have a right to expect better.

Firmino, Coutinho and Daniel Sturridge (when fit) are players worthy of a better Liverpool side, while Emre Can will undoubtedly improve under Klopp’s tutelage. But neither Henderson nor Milner will now become better footballers; they have peaked as willing runners, good professionals and all-round good guys. If there is room for both of them in a first-choice Liverpool side next season then Klopp has failed.

After inheriting a flawed squad in mid-season, Klopp was given a free pass that almost ended in an unlikely trophy. He almost succeeded where Brendan Rodgers failed with a combination of enthusiasm, energy and bear hugs; next season he will be judged on his own team’s recovery from extensive summer surgery. Scalpel please, nurse; there could be significant blood lost.'

http://www.football365.com/news/liverpool-a-910-club-with-710-leaders
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Edward224 on February 28, 2016, 11:35:28 PM
Just came back from the game.

I am gutted about it but these things happen. We were due a penalty shoot out loss in a final am thinking milan, west ham, birmingham and cardiff. So we were due to lose one.

I have to say a few things. Firstly our front 3 grossly underperformed today as they were anonymous for most of the game. Firmino should have been subbed off a lot earlier and it really irritates me they show such inconsistency as we all know what they are capable of producing.

Our central midfield was again a weak link. Not enough leadership shown in the middle for me.

Man City had so much space down Moreno's flank it was unbelievable. Moreno is a shocking defender. Another thing I noticed today was our decision making was poor in the sense that one of the full back had loads of space but we didn't play him in straight away. We dilly dallied and city got players back. Sturridge the biggest culprit.

But the atmosphere in our end really was electric and we should be proud of that.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 29, 2016, 12:21:06 AM
Coutinho has only just come back from injury, though not long term, it still affects a player's absolute sharpness and touch. Sturridge can't be match fit or sharp after so long out, and mentally he's at the stage you'd expect too. Also, I think there will be a problem for a while with confidence and belief in his own body.

With Firmino not having his best game and Sturridge being where he is physically and mentally in terms of his comeback, it's hard for Coutinho not having those two firing on all cylinders. They would improve his performance, and he, their's if all were at 100%.

Brad Smith should be given the rest of the season. Moreno is clueless when it comes to even the basics of defending, and doesn't consistently offer enough going forward.

Mignolet did what Mignolet does. His replacement has to be the priority signing this Summer. Yes, he made three excellent saves, but that's what top class goalkeepers do, but what they don't do is fluff the basics as often as he does. Without that mistake, and despite creating very little, Coutinho's goal would have won it.
When you don't play particularly well as a team, but still score and shut the opposition out still, the last thing you need is a basic mistake by your keeper rendering everything else as meaningless.

We also need an injection of pace throughout the team, in terms of speed of movement and speed of thought.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 29, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
Premiership keepers are appalling: Ex-pro slams Liverpool, Chelsea and other ‘useless’ stoppers
EX-TOP FLIGHT goalkeeper John Burridge has let rip at the current crop of Premier League stoppers, branding several big-names ‘useless’.

Following Manchester City’s Capital One Cup Final win over Liverpool yesterday, Burridge criticised Reds keeper Simon Mignolet who was at fault for the opening goal at Wembley.

The former Crystal Palace, Newcastle and Southampton man is a fan of Leicester's Kasper Schmeichel but didn’t pull his punches for the Prem’s other top keepers.
Burridge claims Mignolet is among a group of ‘appalling’ number ones alongside the likes of Thibaut Courtois, Wayne Hennessey and Ben Foster.

The 5ft 11in former pro, who played for 29 clubs in his career, slammed the height of the goalkeepers in question, saying they ‘can't get down’.

The 64-year-old, whose Twitter bio is ‘The greatest goalkeeper the world has never seen - I should still be playing’, vented his anger by posting:

“The goal keeping in the premiership is now appalling.

"Courtois 6' 7" Henessey 6' 6" Foster 6' 7" Useless. The best is Schmeichel he's 6' foot brilliant."

“As I said keeping in the prem these days is shocking I will add another name to my earlier list Simon Mignolet 6' 4" can't get down useless.”

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 29, 2016, 04:31:28 PM
There could be something in that.

Big tall keepers struggle to get down.

And we saw that again yesterday, when Mignolet conceded.

On the bigger issue, I still am baffled why we gave the lad a new contract.   
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on February 29, 2016, 04:38:43 PM
The German keeper at Barca, Marc-André ter Stegen, that we are supposedly interested in, is only 6 feet 2 inches......so a step in the right direction.

But this season, I have been wondering why we haven't be trying to buy Schmeicel from Leicester.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 29, 2016, 10:46:52 PM
Two more who weren't huge were Paul Cooper of Ipswich and Jimmy Rimmer of Arsenal.

We could have done with Cooper's penalty saving prowess yesterday.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on February 29, 2016, 11:02:48 PM
Timo Horn of Cologne, another we've been linked with is 6'2".

The height thing is interesting. Of course it also depends on a keeper's positioning, anticipation and reflexes.

Shilton was 6ft 1/2 inch and Clemence was 6ft.

Sepp Maier was the same size as Shilts and Dino Zoff was the same as Clem.

Lev Yashin was a relative giant at 6ft 2in.

In comparison Petr Cech is 6ft 4in, Buffon 6ft 3in, Van der Saar 6ft 5in and Casillas 5ft 10in.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on March 02, 2016, 02:08:34 PM
If we beat City tonight we'll blow the race for 4th wide open. Only problem is it won't include us.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on March 02, 2016, 03:08:48 PM
Timo Horn of Cologne, another we've been linked with is 6'2".

The height thing is interesting. Of course it also depends on a keeper's positioning, anticipation and reflexes.

Shilton was 6ft 1/2 inch and Clemence was 6ft.

Sepp Maier was the same size as Shilts and Dino Zoff was the same as Clem.

Lev Yashin was a relative giant at 6ft 2in.

In comparison Petr Cech is 6ft 4in, Buffon 6ft 3in, Van der Saar 6ft 5in and Casillas 5ft 10in.

interesting height data.

I think 6 feet to max 6 feet two, is the ideal.   

Ideally 6 feet, or a half or one inch more.

I just don't see any net positive gain, from having very tall keepers.

Yes, it would be more difficult to chip a very tall keeper from the half way line.....but then again, a normal keeper would have positioned himself appropriately anyway.

I hadn't given it much thought before, but the keeper above is correct I suspect - it is harder for very tall keepers to react and get down as quickly (as normal keepers).

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on March 02, 2016, 03:10:35 PM
If we beat City tonight we'll blow the race for 4th wide open. Only problem is it won't include us.

if we beat City tonight, we are giving Leicester (and Spurs) a great chance of breaking the stranglehold of the very big clubs.    A much healthier premiership scenario.   imho
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on March 02, 2016, 05:11:18 PM
if we beat City tonight, we are giving Leicester (and Spurs) a great chance of breaking the stranglehold of the very big clubs.    A much healthier premiership scenario.   imho

Yes, although I suspect it'll be back to the same old pretty soon. But it would be a great larf to watch Guardiola take over an EL side.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on March 02, 2016, 05:21:31 PM
Yes, although I suspect it'll be back to the same old pretty soon. But it would be a great larf to watch Guardiola take over an EL side.

 :) :) :)

very true!
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on March 02, 2016, 06:39:21 PM
We'll go on an inspired run and do the double of league and UEFA Cup. No problem, it's 1976 all over again.

I'm feeling very Klopptimistic.

Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on March 02, 2016, 07:38:10 PM
Just saw the line-up. Didn't make me Klopptimistic in the slightest.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on March 02, 2016, 10:01:31 PM
3-0



A great midweek for Leicester!    City, Gunners and Spurs all lose tonight.

3 points clear.

Now if only we could catch United.

Finishing on top of Utd and doing well in the Europa League.

Imagine what we could do in this league, with a decent set of players.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on March 02, 2016, 10:55:06 PM
3-0



A great midweek for Leicester!    City, Gunners and Spurs all lose tonight.

3 points clear.

Now if only we could catch United.

Finishing on top of Utd and doing well in the Europa League.

Imagine what we could do in this league, with a decent set of players.

Knock the Mancs out of the UEFA Cup and beat them to 5th would be great. I know it's sad, but if we didn't win the UEFA Cup, getting the UEFA Cup spot and denying the Mancs any European football would make up for another potless season. Well not really, but it may feel like it for a while.

It's an excellent response after Sunday. It doesn't make up for not winning the League Cup, but maybe it can give them the self belief to beat the Mancs and also finish more strongly in the league than we've been for the rest of the season. There's always the next season to build towards and I hope Klopp uses the league to give the likes of Brad Smith and Kevin Stewart, probably even Brannagan and Jordan Rossiter some time on the pitch and see if they're possibles to be of some major use next season.

We need to give our young lads a chance and see if they can turn into the sort of players we end up paying a fortune for to clubs further down the PL, and the only reason they've turned into those sort of players we shell out for is because they got a chance at their clubs.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Tes on March 02, 2016, 11:37:51 PM
It's good to see Lallana continue his goalscoring form. We may yet manage to sell him at the end of the season.
It's a pity about Milner's huge salary as I'd like to keep him for his experience and professionalism as a squad player, but on his wedge, he's a bit too pricey to be a squad player.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on March 03, 2016, 09:16:17 AM
Indeed a great performance but we have seen over the last couple of months that we're capable of it. But we have also seen that after such a performance we seem to have a set back so I fully expect us to crash out against the Mancs who seem to be hitting form at the wrong time despite their injury nightmare.

Yes, Lallana had an impact on the result and so did Firmino. But they both remain hugely ineffective and wasteful, always seeking the more difficult option leading to a disruptive and stale attacking game.

Like you Tes, I am full of respect for Milner's workmanship and professionalism. I think we should keep him for another year.

It was very important to bounce back in style, but we also must learn to win games when it matters. Remember losing to Chelsea in the FA-cup final 2012 only to beat them 4-1 a couple of days later at Anfield.

Until there's genuine proof were able to muster anything that resembles consistency and continuity I will not expect anything but a negative set-back in the coming games. Our only chance to go through in the EL is if they don't get their CB's back in time.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: the dude abides on March 03, 2016, 02:07:07 PM
if we win our game in hand, we are a mere three points off the 4th Champions League place, with ten games left to play.
Title: Re: Season 2015/16
Post by: Martinmarx on March 03, 2016, 09:01:39 PM
if we win our game in hand, we are a mere three points off the 4th Champions League place, with ten games left to play.

Is true, but then there's the issue of inherent inconsistency I hate to say.

It's been my conviction for a while now we'll see a winning points tally below 75 points for the first time in the PL era. I am also convinced this will be the most crazy run in, in living memory. Here's why:

*Leicester - they've been absolutely awesome. They have overachieved to an unprecedented level. What's more, they are still due a dip in form lest they would replicate the incredible achievement of the "Invincibles" of sorts. I can't shake the feeling they might all of a sudden go on a losing streak. Not saying it'll happen but it would surprise me heavily if doesn't.

*Spurs - have also made big strides this season. Pochettino's done a fantastic job during his 18 months at the club. However, they do not have a very good squad. I'd say our squad is far better although their starting XI is at least equal to our. However, their remaining fixtures are indeed tough. Tougher than anyone elses by far. They have very few givens like Villa or Norwich at home. They will also play Dortmund twice in the coming weeks.

*Arsenal - they lost 3-2 to an incredibly injury stricken United and 2-1 at home to an almost equally injury struck Swansea. They seem to lose confidence at the worst possible time. Still my favorites to win it.

*City - are similar to us in that few can meet their highs whereas noone above position 15 can meet their lows. Their away form's been abysmal all season and having lost the last 2 home games they're bound to lose a lot more before this is all over. Their best chance to qualify for next season's CL is probably by winning it this year.

*United - a bit worried. It is a sign of strength to win against Arsenal and Watford with so many injuries. I fear they're hitting something at this time. Fairly confident they'll finish top-4.

*Liverpool - we'll get some much needed rest next weekend as the homefixture against Chelsea's been postponed due to their FA-cup committments. On paper our run in is fairly generous but we all know that count's for little after beating Chelsea and City comfortably away only to drop points to Norwich and Sunderland at home. If we somehow manage to find some sort of consistency during our final 11 games we'll be in with a good chance to finish top 4. Nothing really suggest that will happen though.

How it'll finish:

1. Arsenal
2. Man Utd
3. Leicest