Anfield Road - Liverpool FC Forum

Football and lesser sports => Liverpool FC, football, sport => Topic started by: Juan on October 01, 2010, 10:12:10 PM

Title: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 01, 2010, 10:12:10 PM
I dont think a managerial appointment at LFC has caused so much debate and disagreement amongst fans than Roys appointment in July. Admittedly I wasnt one of those people who wanted the board to chose Roy especially when our greatest ever player Kenny Dalglish had put himself in to the running. Even without Kennys interest I felt Roy didnt have the track record of winning and there were many other managers out there that I would have held in higher regard.

That said Roy got the job and I think its only fair he gets some time. Off the field Roy speaks and conducts himself with respect and a dignity that I admire. On the field I havent been impressed with what he has done with the team to date. Time will tell whether hes out of his depth or not but he still deserves his chance. If new owners were keen to appoint their own man I would certainly feel sorry for Roy but if I were to be honest I wouldnt probably mind.

So seeing as Roys every word, team sheet and tactical change have been scrutinised to date I thought a thread on all things Roy would be appropriate. If you love, hate, worship Roy or just think his team lineup was genius I suppose this could be the place to say so.

Below is an article from the daily post to kick things off. Its not complimentary to Roy and at times its probably a bit harsh but on the whole I find myself agreeing with alot of it.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/liverpool-fc/2010/10/01/comment-liverpool-fc-needed-an-inspirational-figure-instead-they-got-roy-hodgson-55578-27381493/

Liverpool FC needed an inspirational figure... instead they got Roy Hodgson

Oct 1 2010 By Ben Thornley, Head of Sport

AFTER the manner in which Rafa Benitez’s  Anfield reign reached its conclusion this summer,  Liverpool needed a manager to re-energise the club and its  fans.

Instead, they got Roy Hodgson.

As bad decisions go, replacing the Spaniard with the Londoner was  like swapping Javier Mascherano for Christian Poulsen. Or  attempting to sign Carlton Cole as a "high quality" back-up for Fernando Torres.

Liverpool required an inspirational figure to light a fire under a club in the shadow of  its toxic American owners,  a motivator to realise the potential of a talented but underachieving group of players who stumbled to a poor seventh-place Premier League finish.

With so many key men known to be considering their futures and Champions League rivals Manchester City and Tottenham growing stronger by the season, a boss who could make an immediate impact should have been sought.

Not a   steady hand for hire whose last big job was 11 years ago at Inter Milan – and only then in a caretaker role –  and who had spent the best part of the last decade cruising towards retirement in Scandinavia.

Hodgson  is a fine coach but he  isn’t a Liverpool manager,  and already it is apparent he is horribly  out of his depth.

Indeed, when you hear the 63-year-old talk it takes a moment for it to register that he is Reds boss.

It’s not just the foreign accent of his two immediate predecessors that he lacks.

He has neither the arrogance or charisma of Gerard Houllier nor the unswerving self-assurance, pedigree and genius of Benitez – traits necessary to deal with the huge pressure that comes with  the Anfield job.

There are times when Hodgson himself appears to forget he’s sitting in one of the game’s most prized hotseats.

He often seems too modest and   almost embarrassed to say anything that would make him appear confident.

Certainly, some of his signings and transfer targets  suggest that Hodgson still thinks he is at Craven Cottage.

Hodgson is, however,  at least as defensively-minded as both Benitez and Houllier. Revealingly after last week’s humiliating home Carling Cup defeat to Northampton, Hodgson said that when his side went 2-1 down he had to "throw caution to the wind."

Liverpool were playing a struggling League Two side. At Anfield.

Caution shouldn’t come in to the equation.

Equally as unforgivable was Hodgson’s failure to defend Fernando Torres against Sir Alex Ferguson’s accusations of cheating, with the former Fulham boss more interested in preserving his friendship with the United manager than defending the reputation of a star player.

The Scot after all can only be pally with a manager he doesn’t perceive to be a threat to him – and there’s no danger of Liverpool challenging Manchester United this term.

Or even the top four.

After playing the likes of Manchester City, Manchester United and Arsenal so far this term, it has been suggested that the Reds are not as bad as the table suggests.

Liverpool, however, looked no more likely to beat Sunderland or Birmingham than they did the Red Devils or City.

It feels wrong to judge a manager so early and perhaps Hodgson does deserve more time to make his mark at Anfield, but there hasn’t even been a glimmer of hope that things will improve.

This side’s strength if nothing else has always been its resoluteness and organisation, yet despite taking an even more cautious approach than Benitez the defence appears shakier than at any time since the Roy Evans era. And for all the criticism of Benitez’s favoured zonal marking system, at least players contested set pieces.

It might be considered too un-Liverpool   to axe a manager so prematurely, going down an unwanted road  travelled by the likes of Newcastle.

Sometimes, though, it is braver to admit that you got it wrong in the first place.

How long to do you leave it? Until Christmas or the end of the season? Time is something the club don’t have.

Another season outside of the Champions League is likely to prompt the exits of Jose Reina and Fernando Torres.

And if it’s the same men brokering their moves away who negotiated the paltry sum for Mascherano, Liverpool won’t even be suitably compensated.

Even then would Hodgson – who paid £7.5m for Kevin Davies while at Blackburn – be the best man to spend the money?

Worryingly, he is already trying to reduce expectations at Liverpool by suggesting after the defeat to Northampton and the draw to Sunderland that the fans needed to lower their hopes for the forthcoming season.

Liverpool fans and their crazy ambitions of beating the Black Cats and the Cobblers at Anfield,  eh?

The last time the 18 times champions of England made such a poor start to the season was during Graeme Souness’ second term in charge.

Had David Moores moved as quickly to end the former midfielder’s disastrous reign as he did to accept Tom Hicks and George Gillett’s money, then maybe Liverpool’s title drought would not now stand at 20 years and counting.

Sticking by a manager is only noble if you have the right boss.  Nothing in the past nor present suggests Hodgson is.

The Souness years – from which the club has never recovered – showed what can happen if you keep faith in the wrong man.

It’s not as if there isn’t a ready-made replacement at Anfield in Kenny Dalglish, the man to whom the club should have turned  in the first place.

Instead, a  Liverpool board described by Benitez as knowing "nothing about football" made the mistake of going for the man of the moment, hiring Hodgson on the strength of one good season after forcing the Spaniard’s exit because of one poor campaign.

For now, though, the ownership issue is the most pressing challenge facing the club.

After all, the root cause of Liverpool's decline is a lack of investment in the squad for three years, exacerbated by a handful of poor transfer decisions by Benitez admittedly. Appointing Hodgson, however, has only accelerated the Reds' regression.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 02, 2010, 12:21:27 PM
I'm very reluctant to criticise him especially when he's only been in place for less than a dozen games. There are three areas that I'm concerned about.


If we don't beat Blackpool by 2 clear goals tomorrow then I will be concerned even more than I am already. Oh, and one final tip Roy. Don't sit on the bench with your head in your hands staring at the ground. It semds all the wrong signals to everyone and gives the opposition a boost. If you don't like what you're seeing implement Plan B. You do have a Plan B don't you Roy?  ::)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on October 02, 2010, 01:54:53 PM
I think it'll be pretty clear by Xmas if Roy can do the job or not...
too early so far and i seem to remember Rafa's first year was pretty shine-a-light...5th in the league...woeful cup performance.. but we then went onto win the Champions league...we haven't got that to *koff* fall back on this time...but i remember all the doom and gloom in that year...

if he's the man for the job then he'll adapt and we'll start to play like we should be....some big names might also be left on the wayside if he starts picking whats best for the club...
if some miracle happens and we get new owners, they will also judge roys' performance till xmas...they may even have a man they want who will then spend any monies wisely in january...

the clock doth ticketh....
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on October 02, 2010, 02:22:16 PM
Oh and the one problem with Roy so far is about the players who havent played...letting Aquilani go was a monumental f*** up and not trying babel in his favoured strikers role as back up to torres being the two main ones...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 02, 2010, 02:24:28 PM
I was curious what results we achieved back in 2004/05. Here's the first 7 results...

14/08/2004     Tottenham Hotspur    Away     D     1-1
21/08/2004     Manchester City    Home     W     2-1
29/08/2004     Bolton Wanderers    Away     L     0-1
11/09/2004     West Brom      Home     W     3-0
20/09/2004     Manchester United    Away     L     1-2
25/09/2004     Norwich City       Home     W     3-0
03/10/2004     Chelsea          Away     L     0-1

That's W3, D1, L3. Points 10 from 7.

This season it's this assuming we beat Blackpool tomorrow...

W2, D3, L2. Points 9 from 7.

Only slightly worse and our record against the top clubs was pretty much the same. But there's one big difference. Rafa was new to England whereas Roy has been here for years.

It's not so much the results as the performances. Pass and move is non-existent. Too many players receive the ball stood still. No wide players to deliver crosses. Tomorrow has to be a major improvement new manager or not.

Anyway, people are saying Roy has to be given time to get the players to play a different system but I see nothing different in the last few. Early on especially in Europe the play was much better but we seem to have regressed since then.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 02, 2010, 02:42:42 PM
Oh and the one problem with Roy so far is about the players who havent played...letting Aquilani go was a monumental f*** up and not trying babel in his favoured strikers role as back up to torres being the two main ones...

I don't think Aquilani was up to the rigours of our league but having said Ryan needs to prove he can play then he must be given a chance up front.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on October 02, 2010, 03:18:03 PM

Early on especially in Europe the play was much better but we seem to have regressed since then.


Absolutely..
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 02, 2010, 03:24:44 PM
I'm very reluctant to criticise him especially when he's only been in place for less than a dozen games. There are three areas that I'm concerned about.

Thats a fair call ASI. I do agree with you to an extent. Nobody should be calling for Roy to go but I do think it its fair to analyse Roys performance to date both on and off the field. If we play terrible stuff I refuse to ignore that we played badly, likewise if Roy pulls off a tactical master stroke I will give credit where due. That said though no matter how badly or how well we play and how badly or well Roy performs his duties off the field he will certainly be given a bedding in period by the fans where I think criticism wont matter. If in 10 months time we are still criticising him for the same mistakes then I will be very worried.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 02, 2010, 03:33:10 PM
Oh and the one problem with Roy so far is about the players who havent played...letting Aquilani go was a monumental f*** up and not trying babel in his favoured strikers role as back up to torres being the two main ones...

Agreed re Babel and Aquillani Bart. When you say your going to give him a chance in his favourite position then do it and dont just keep saying it. Hes given him until Christmas to make an impact up front but hes not going to be able to do that unless he gets game time.

As for Aquillani I think letting him go to Juve could be risky business. I thought he looked terrible in the opening games of the season and I understand we have probably got him off our wage bill. But if he doesnt get the games he needs at Juve and if hes not a success then he will come back valued at about 5 million and we wont have found out whether he can hack it in the Premier League.

Hes turning out to be one of Rafas biggest wastes of money. That said as a right back Glen Johnson is running him close at the mo.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 02, 2010, 03:50:39 PM
I was curious what results we achieved back in 2004/05. Here's the first 7 results...

14/08/2004     Tottenham Hotspur    Away     D     1-1
21/08/2004     Manchester City    Home     W     2-1
29/08/2004     Bolton Wanderers    Away     L     0-1
11/09/2004     West Brom      Home     W     3-0
20/09/2004     Manchester United    Away     L     1-2
25/09/2004     Norwich City       Home     W     3-0
03/10/2004     Chelsea          Away     L     0-1

That's W3, D1, L3. Points 10 from 7.

This season it's this assuming we beat Blackpool tomorrow...

W2, D3, L2. Points 9 from 7.

Only slightly worse and our record against the top clubs was pretty much the same. But there's one big difference. Rafa was new to England whereas Roy has been here for years.

It's not so much the results as the performances. Pass and move is non-existent. Too many players receive the ball stood still. No wide players to deliver crosses. Tomorrow has to be a major improvement new manager or not.

Anyway, people are saying Roy has to be given time to get the players to play a different system but I see nothing different in the last few. Early on especially in Europe the play was much better but we seem to have regressed since then.

Interesting its all very similar with the start of Rafas reign.

Although its still a big 'if' we beat  Blackpool.

An ex Liverpool player made a comment the other night, not sure who it was but they said when ever they got the ball during their time the first thing you did was go forward and attempt to pick someone out. He said that he doesnt understand why when we get the ball its constantly going sidewards or back. I suppose thats back to the pass and move style that as you say we dont see anymore.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2010, 06:53:18 PM
I don't think Aquilani was up to the rigours of our league but having said Ryan needs to prove he can play then he must be given a chance up front.

I agree that if Aquilani was played as one of two holding midfielders or a deep lying playmaker would be more accurate, as that what Alonso was, he's get shredded every week. Likewise, if he were to play slightly further forward in a more traditional central midfield position, ala Terry Mac for example, same result. However, if he was played off Torres, in a more Bergkampesque role, playing between the opposition back four and midfield, linking with a midfielder coming from deep (means giving up the overly negative two defensive midfielders) and Torres ahead of him, looking to feed runs of players in wide positions also, I think we'd have seen a very good player.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 02, 2010, 10:28:48 PM
Excellent post for retaining Aquilani Tes. You almost convinced me he would have been a success. Whether we will ever seem him don a red shirt again is anyone's guess.

But when I see sides like Manure and Spurs play two or three strikers and still manage to keep some cohesion then I think it's very unfair to play Torres up front on his own with little or no service. No wonder he looks so fed up.

Given Utd's 0-0 today I really think Roy has to be very attack-minded tomorrow and send out a team that will put the fear of God into Blackpool. If they see just Torres up front they will double man-mark him and he'll be frozen out. Then the tension in the stands will feed onto the pitch and we'll play rubbish football. If we win then we go into the top half. It's a vital game especially as Everton won today putting us into the relegation zone!

Heck, let's play Babel, Ngog and Torres. Who needs two holding midfielders against Blackpool? Just go for it Roy and if we concede 2 goals let's just go and score 3. That's Spurs and Manure's attitude. I'd love it to be ours.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 02, 2010, 10:30:10 PM
Hmmm....Roy Hodgson...I think Dude summed it up well a while back with his post about Roy being a nice man, someone you'd want to succeed in life.....

Anyway NO top or even young and ambitious manager would have chosen our Basket Case club and the Poisoned Chalice that was the vacancy this Summer.....

So we got Roy and fair play to him for having the balls to accept the job!

Naturally there is concern (In particular the form of Torres!) and ideally he would have been given a rolling contract like he had at Fulham....

I think the ownership issue is far more important at the moment though!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2010, 11:51:43 PM
Just go for it Roy and if we concede 2 goals let's just go and score 3. That's Spurs and Manure's attitude. I'd love it to be ours.

Or Oldham Athletic under Joe Royal.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 03, 2010, 03:29:29 AM
Roys feeling the pressure.

I can understand why Roy is teed off but one thing I have a serious problem with is when he says "I could not give a monkey’s whether we are 16th or 18th". He should give a monkeys. We are currently relegation fodder according to the table.  Three points later today will see us in to the top half but I take issue with Roys above statement, its disrespectful to the fans because they certainly care and they pay their hard earned cash to watch the team.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8038680/Roy-Hodgson-launches-strident-defence-of-his-start-to-life-as-Liverpool-manager.html


Roy Hodgson launches strident defence of his start to life as Liverpool manager
Roy Hodgson has launched a strident defence of his stuttering start as Liverpool manager, insisting he will not change the approach which earned him the job, dismissing concerns over his side’s league position and intimating his team have done little to suggest more should be expected of them than his former club Fulham.
 
Rory Smith

By Rory Smith
Published: 11:59PM BST 02 Oct 2010

Roy Hodgson launches strident defence of his start to life as Liverpool manager
Running out of time? Roy Hodgson has launched a strident defence of his stuttering start to life as Liverpool manager Photo: GETTY IMAGES

Hodgson, appointed by managing director Christian Purslow in July to replace Rafael Benítez, has overseen just one Premier League win in six games — though he remains unbeaten in Europe — after a series of mediocre performances and his side begin Sunday afternoon’s visit of Blackpool hovering just above the relegation zone.

Such a résumé is hardly the sort of start deemed acceptable at Anfield. Hodgson, though, is quick to scotch the suggestion that his style of coaching and philosophy of play is not suited to a club where expectations are so high and the staff at his disposal so high-profile.
 
“Unbelievable,” said the Liverpool manager, when asked whether his approach could be applied on Merseyside as effectively as it was in west London. “How many clubs have I had in 35 years? What do you mean, do my methods translate? They translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchâtel Xamax to the Swiss national team.

“The question is quite frankly insulting, I suppose. That question is suggesting something. To suggest that suddenly because you move from one club to another, the methods that have stood you in good stead for 35 years and made you one of the most respected coaches in the Europe suddenly do not work. I find it very, very hard to believe that someone has even asked me that question.”

He is equally scornful of the idea that Liverpool boast a different type of player, either in terms of technical ability or psychological needs, players who require a different form of coaching to his former charges at Craven Cottage. “What do you mean, ‘a different type of player?'” he asked.

“At the moment arguably one or two of the players that you are suggesting are very different to the Fulham players maybe are not playing any better than the Fulham players played. Journalists work on names and not on performances. You watch people play and you base your judgement on their name and not necessarily what they have actually done on the day of the game.”

If such remarks suggest Hodgson is starting to feel the pressure of life under the intense glare of attention which England’s most decorated club attracts, he insists nothing could be further from the truth, regardless of the apparent precariousness of Liverpool’s league position.

“I could not give a monkey’s whether we are 16th or 18th,” he said. “What bothers me is that we have only got six points and I would have liked a few more. But then I knew Manchester United and Manchester City were going to be tough, and I knew Arsenal with 10 men was going to be tough, so maybe six points is not so bad.

“[But] when you have six points from six games, you understand people are going to be making negative judgments. That is the way it is. Those things do not bother me. I have had two and a half wonderful years where nothing negative was ever said about me and my team. Now maybe people are saying negative things. It does not change anything.”

Such confidence will do little to quell the growing unease among Liverpool’s fans, though Anfield is famed for its enduring faith in those who inhabit the Boot Room. Hodgson, though, insists such concerns are borne of hopes heightened beyond realism.

“Expectations are very high,” he said. “You cannot live in a dream world of how wonderful it would be if every time one of our players got the ball, he raced past four defenders and smashed it into the net. That would be living in a fantasy world. That is not going to happen in plenty of games in Europe and the Premier League.

“I would accuse you of being unrealistic if you are suggesting we should doing what Arsenal, who have had the same team for the last six years, and Chelsea, who have just won the league, are doing. We finished seventh last season. I don’t understand why you are suggesting we should be comparing ourselves every day with Chelsea or Manchester United at this early stage of the season
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 03, 2010, 03:54:16 AM
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/liverpool/1015292/ROY-IN-DESPAIR.html

ROY HODGSON is at breaking point after a damning assessment of his Liverpool team.

The Kop chief has confided in friends that they are SIX players short of challenging at the top of the Premier League.

Liverpool go into Sunday's game against Blackpool in the bottom three for the first time since 1984 and pals are concerned Hodgson will not be able to cope with the pressure of transforming the team.

They have noticed a change in Hodgson's usually relaxed manner and fear the pressure of turning Liverpool around is beginning to affect him.

Last season he appeared in complete control after guiding Fulham to the Europa League final and 12th placed in the Premier League.

Hodgson will not quit Liverpool, but fears that any potential new owners are likely to want their own man in charge at Anfield.

The Kop's desperate financial situation prevented Hodgson from making widespread changes to the squad in the summer and fear it's his reputation on the line.

After holding out for the England job following the World Cup, he eventually joined Liverpool when it became clear Fabio Capello would not be fired.

He was initially convinced he could tweak the squad and turn them into a top four team again after succeeding Rafa Benitez.

Instead his conservative methods in training and on the pitch have been met by a brickwall.

The culture at the club is playing attacking football, but Hodgson wants his team to play on the counter.

Hodgson's relationship with Fernando Torres is already strained and the World Cup winner has yet to respond to his new manager.
Impact

Liverpool will attempt to turn their season around at home to Blackpool on Sunday after a dreadful start.

They have won just once in the Premier League this season and Hodgson is struggling to make an impact.

Three of his signings - Paul Konchesky, Christian Poulsen and Raul Meireles - have yet to impress.

Hodgson has privately assessed the Liverpool squad and has conceded they are a long way short of Manchester United and Chelsea.

Many of his influential players are struggling to adapt to his training methods and want Hodgson to be more attack minded to satisfy supporters.

Hodgson has other changes in mind, but fears a backlash from supporters if he drops some of Liverpool's influential stars.

A close friend said: "We're worried about Roy, he's not the same person.

"Last year he thrived as the underdog, but he doesn't like criticism and doesn't enjoy people questioning his methods.

"It's too early to say he regrets taking the job, but it's dawning on him just how big it is. He's not a quitter, he's carry on."
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2010, 10:09:22 AM
It's exactly what we've been saying for the last two years about playing more attack minded football.

It seems now even the players are fed up with defensive, safety first, spoiling football. As we've said, when they were let off the leash, or took it upon themselves, and played more expansive, attack minded football, not only did we play much better and get the results, but the players looked happier, more confident and look as though they had belief in what they were doing and how they were playing - comebacks against Man City and Hull City, the last third of the 2008/09 when we were chasing the Mancs having surrended the slim overall lead we'd built up through over cautious play.

Mireles, Gerrard, Cole, Maxi, Torres are all technical players who would excel in an attacking, crisp passing, fluid moving style of play.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2010, 10:29:10 AM
Roys feeling the pressure.

I can understand why Roy is teed off but one thing I have a serious problem with is when he says "I could not give a monkey’s whether we are 16th or 18th". He should give a monkeys. We are currently relegation fodder according to the table.  Three points later today will see us in to the top half but I take issue with Roys above statement, its disrespectful to the fans because they certainly care and they pay their hard earned cash to watch the team.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8038680/Roy-Hodgson-launches-strident-defence-of-his-start-to-life-as-Liverpool-manager.html


Roy Hodgson launches strident defence of his start to life as Liverpool manager
Roy Hodgson has launched a strident defence of his stuttering start as Liverpool manager, insisting he will not change the approach which earned him the job, dismissing concerns over his side’s league position and intimating his team have done little to suggest more should be expected of them than his former club Fulham.
 
Rory Smith

By Rory Smith
Published: 11:59PM BST 02 Oct 2010

Roy Hodgson launches strident defence of his start to life as Liverpool manager
Running out of time? Roy Hodgson has launched a strident defence of his stuttering start to life as Liverpool manager Photo: GETTY IMAGES

Hodgson, appointed by managing director Christian Purslow in July to replace Rafael Benítez, has overseen just one Premier League win in six games — though he remains unbeaten in Europe — after a series of mediocre performances and his side begin Sunday afternoon’s visit of Blackpool hovering just above the relegation zone.

Such a résumé is hardly the sort of start deemed acceptable at Anfield. Hodgson, though, is quick to scotch the suggestion that his style of coaching and philosophy of play is not suited to a club where expectations are so high and the staff at his disposal so high-profile.
 
“Unbelievable,” said the Liverpool manager, when asked whether his approach could be applied on Merseyside as effectively as it was in west London. “How many clubs have I had in 35 years? What do you mean, do my methods translate? They translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchâtel Xamax to the Swiss national team.

“The question is quite frankly insulting, I suppose. That question is suggesting something. To suggest that suddenly because you move from one club to another, the methods that have stood you in good stead for 35 years and made you one of the most respected coaches in the Europe suddenly do not work. I find it very, very hard to believe that someone has even asked me that question.”

He is equally scornful of the idea that Liverpool boast a different type of player, either in terms of technical ability or psychological needs, players who require a different form of coaching to his former charges at Craven Cottage. “What do you mean, ‘a different type of player?'” he asked.

“At the moment arguably one or two of the players that you are suggesting are very different to the Fulham players maybe are not playing any better than the Fulham players played. Journalists work on names and not on performances. You watch people play and you base your judgement on their name and not necessarily what they have actually done on the day of the game.”

If such remarks suggest Hodgson is starting to feel the pressure of life under the intense glare of attention which England’s most decorated club attracts, he insists nothing could be further from the truth, regardless of the apparent precariousness of Liverpool’s league position.

“I could not give a monkey’s whether we are 16th or 18th,” he said. “What bothers me is that we have only got six points and I would have liked a few more. But then I knew Manchester United and Manchester City were going to be tough, and I knew a*senal with 10 men was going to be tough, so maybe six points is not so bad.

“[But] when you have six points from six games, you understand people are going to be making negative judgments. That is the way it is. Those things do not bother me. I have had two and a half wonderful years where nothing negative was ever said about me and my team. Now maybe people are saying negative things. It does not change anything.”

Such confidence will do little to quell the growing unease among Liverpool’s fans, though Anfield is famed for its enduring faith in those who inhabit the Boot Room. Hodgson, though, insists such concerns are borne of hopes heightened beyond realism.

“Expectations are very high,” he said. “You cannot live in a dream world of how wonderful it would be if every time one of our players got the ball, he raced past four defenders and smashed it into the net. That would be living in a fantasy world. That is not going to happen in plenty of games in Europe and the Premier League.

“I would accuse you of being unrealistic if you are suggesting we should doing what a*senal, who have had the same team for the last six years, and Chelsea, who have just won the league, are doing. We finished seventh last season. I don’t understand why you are suggesting we should be comparing ourselves every day with Chelsea or Manchester United at this early stage of the season

"“Unbelievable,” said the Liverpool manager, when asked whether his approach could be applied on Merseyside as effectively as it was in west London. “How many clubs have I had in 35 years? What do you mean, do my methods translate? They translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchâtel Xamax to the Swiss national team."

Way to miss the point, Roy. Well done.

"“Expectations are very high,” he said. “You cannot live in a dream world of how wonderful it would be if every time one of our players got the ball, he raced past four defenders and smashed it into the net. That would be living in a fantasy world. That is not going to happen in plenty of games in Europe and the Premier League."

What a stupid childish response. No one is expecting that.

"“I would accuse you of being unrealistic if you are suggesting we should doing what a*senal, who have had the same team for the last six years, and Chelsea, who have just won the league, are doing. We finished seventh last season. I don’t understand why you are suggesting we should be comparing ourselves every day with Chelsea or Manchester United at this early stage of the season"

No one is expecting us to challenge for the league. We need to be hovering around fifth, sixth, seventh, challenging for fourth. That is the absolute peak of expectation. We may not end up fourth. We may end up snatching fourth on the last day of the season, having never been higher than fifth throughout the season but we need to be challenging for fourth. That's some revision of our expectations and targets. We can no longer think about 'first is first, second is nothing'. We realise that.


Just what does Roy think 'realistic expectations' should be? Avoid relegation? Finsh 10th, exactly mid-table? Scrape into a Europa League spot (steady there, getting a bit giddy with them there 'expectations')?
I'd always substitute 'hopes' or 'targets' for expectations, as expectation is too stong a word to use in football,
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 03, 2010, 10:58:48 AM
"“Unbelievable,” said the Liverpool manager, when asked whether his approach could be applied on Merseyside as effectively as it was in west London. “How many clubs have I had in 35 years? What do you mean, do my methods translate? They translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchâtel Xamax to the Swiss national team."

Way to miss the point, Roy. Well done.

"“Expectations are very high,” he said. “You cannot live in a dream world of how wonderful it would be if every time one of our players got the ball, he raced past four defenders and smashed it into the net. That would be living in a fantasy world. That is not going to happen in plenty of games in Europe and the Premier League."

What a stupid childish response. No one is expecting that.

"“I would accuse you of being unrealistic if you are suggesting we should doing what a*senal, who have had the same team for the last six years, and Chelsea, who have just won the league, are doing. We finished seventh last season. I don’t understand why you are suggesting we should be comparing ourselves every day with Chelsea or Manchester United at this early stage of the season"

No one is expecting us to challenge for the league. We need to be hovering around fifth, sixth, seventh, challenging for fourth. That is the absolute peak of expectation. We may not end up fourth. We may end up snatching fourth on the last day of the season, having never been higher than fifth throughout the season but we need to be challenging for fourth. That's some revision of our expectations and targets. We can no longer think about 'first is first, second is nothing'. We realise that.


Just what does Roy think 'realistic expectations' should be? Avoid relegation? Finsh 10th, exactly mid-table? Scrape into a Europa League spot (steady there, getting a bit giddy with them there 'expectations')?
I'd always substitute 'hopes' or 'targets' for expectations, as expectation is too stong a word to use in football,

Agree with all your points Tes. In the space of 6 weeks we have gone from Roy suggesting "dont rule us out yet" referring to a title challenge to the his comments in the article above.  This is not the stuff you want to hear from the so called steady the ship manager. If this article is true to its word its sounds like Roy is feeling the heat at a time when we need to show some bottle the most.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2010, 04:04:40 PM
Agree with all your points Tes. In the space of 6 weeks we have gone from Roy suggesting "dont rule us out yet" referring to a title challenge to the his comments in the article above.  This is not the stuff you want to hear from the so called steady the ship manager. If this article is true to its word its sounds like Roy is feeling the heat at a time when we need to show some bottle the most.

If the half time score becomes the full time score then he will feel the heat even more.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 05:04:57 PM
If the half time score becomes the full time score then he will feel the heat even more.
If you can't stand the heat... >:(

Exceptional times call for exceptional measures. He's got to seriously consider his position.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2010, 05:13:07 PM
He's got to seriously consider his position.

I wish Pursestrings had considered his (Hodgson's) position a bit more thoroughly than he did before appointing him.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 06:13:15 PM
I wish Pursestrings had considered his (Hodgson's) position a bit more thoroughly than he did before appointing him.
He didn't but someone now has a decision to make. Whilst it goes against the grain in even thinking about him leaving I've seen nothing all season to suggest he can turn things around. There are enough decent players in the team to play better football than they're current playing.

Is it his tactics? Saying he'll give Babel a chance to prove himself and then not even selecting him in the squad is daft!

And why do we only seen to come to life after going behind? There are so many questions and so far, no answers.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2010, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 06:13:15 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg17626#msg17626)
<blockquote>Is it his tactics? Saying he'll give Babel a chance to prove himself and then not even selecting him in the squad is daft!





ASI, Babel is not Liverpool class.  He couldn''t control a bag of cement.

Like Diouf, he is more suited to a Bolton or Blackburn.


</blockquote>
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 06:26:03 PM
Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 06:13:15 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg17626#msg17626)
<blockquote>Is it his tactics? Saying he'll give Babel a chance to prove himself and then not even selecting him in the squad is daft!





ASI, Babel is not Liverpool class.  He couldn''t control a bag of cement.

Like Diouf, he is more suited to a Bolton or Blackburn.


</blockquote>

Then why would he make the statement? He sees far more of Babel than either you or I? You don't tell someone they need to prove they're good enough to play for the club and then not select them. It's nonsensical!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: BatChainPuller on October 03, 2010, 06:26:43 PM
He didn't but someone now has a decision to make. Whilst it goes against the grain in even thinking about him leaving I've seen nothing all season to suggest he can turn things around. There are enough decent players in the team to play better football than they're current playing.

Is it his tactics? Saying he'll give Babel a chance to prove himself and then not even selecting him in the squad is daft!

And why do we only seen to come to life after going behind? There are so many questions and so far, no answers.

He seems likely to pass the blame to the players, which will probably make the situation even worse.

The problem is that there are so few positives to set against the negatives - if you could at least see some new approaches which weren't quite coming off but there is nothing to speak of.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 06:35:14 PM
He seems likely to pass the blame to the players, which will probably make the situation even worse.
If he does that then I think he'll be writing his own resignation letter.

Quote
The problem is that there are so few positives to set against the negatives - if you could at least see some new approaches which weren't quite coming off but there is nothing to speak of.
That's one of my main gripes. In the early Euro games we definitely played a different style but have reverted to the same as under Rafa except we can't defend at all now.

Welcome to the forum. Pity it can't be under happier circumstances.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2010, 06:44:54 PM
Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 06:26:03 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg17631#msg17631)<blockquote>Then why would he make the statement? He sees far more of Babel than either you or I? You don't tell someone they need to prove they're good enough to play for the club and then not select them. It's nonsensical!
</blockquote>

true, ASI.

And maybe Babel is good enough for Maidstone United, Carshalton Athletic, Halmstad, Bristol City, Örebro, Malmö, Neuchâtel Xamax, Switzerland, Blackburn Rovers, Grasshoppers, Copenhagen, Udinese, United Arab Emirates, Viking, Finland or Fulham.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: BatChainPuller on October 03, 2010, 06:47:52 PM
If he does that then I think he'll be writing his own resignation letter.
That's one of my main gripes. In the early Euro games we definitely played a different style but have reverted to the same as under Rafa except we can't defend at all now.

Welcome to the forum. Pity it can't be under happier circumstances.

Thanks dude - I've only ever really posted on TLW but feel a need to explore new pastures (and their server crashed as usual when we lose !).

I think poor old Roy has no room for manouevre - he has no real reservoir of good will and most people wanted Kenny in the first place. Purslow will also struggle to evade responsibility for the horror show that's unfolding.  felt positive towards Roy initially (despite not wanting him) as he seemed a safe pair of hands in terms of dealing with the press - that evaporated fairly quickly unfortunately !
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: BatChainPuller on October 03, 2010, 06:49:31 PM
Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 06:26:03 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg17631#msg17631)<blockquote>Then why would he make the statement? He sees far more of Babel than either you or I? You don't tell someone they need to prove they're good enough to play for the club and then not select them. It's nonsensical!
</blockquote>

true, ASI.

And maybe Babel is good enough for Maidstone United, Carshalton Athletic, Halmstad, Bristol City, Örebro, Malmö, Neuchâtel Xamax, Switzerland, Blackburn Rovers, Grasshoppers, Copenhagen, Udinese, United Arab Emirates, Viking, Finland or Fulham.

He wasn't good enough to unlock Northampton though.  :(
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2010, 07:17:00 PM
He wasn't good enough to unlock Northampton though.  :(

Babel needs a run of games to prove one thing or the other. His first season showed a lot of promise but I think it's going to be tough for anyone coming into the team, especially an attacking player, when we're playing such turgid, disconnected football.

Good old TLW meltdown.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 03, 2010, 07:26:36 PM
Thanks dude - I've only ever really posted on TLW but feel a need to explore new pastures (and their server crashed as usual when we lose !).
I think you'll like it here despite the unremitting gloom at the moment. We're a pretty civilised lot.

Quote
I think poor old Roy has no room for manouevre - he has no real reservoir of good will and most people wanted Kenny in the first place. Purslow will also struggle to evade responsibility for the horror show that's unfolding.  felt positive towards Roy initially (despite not wanting him) as he seemed a safe pair of hands in terms of dealing with the press - that evaporated fairly quickly unfortunately !
Well at least he's accepted responsibility in the post-match interview. But he needs to look at his earlier games especially in Europe and look at how we played then.

RBS will hopefully do the right thing and assume ownership. That would cause several offers to be made and one will hopefully be suitable. Whilst it wouldn't cause a immediate change in playing staff it might mean we can afford a better quality manager who in January could buy some better quality players.

I don't know about others here but the ownership thing is weighing really heavily on me at the moment. Every day I'm scanning the press looking for news about Hicks and what he's up to. It's dominating my mind and I'm just a supporter. I can't believe it's not having an effect on the players off the pitch but shouldn't affect them once a game starts. Our current loss of form is a combination of low confidence and poor management tactics. One causes the other unfortunately and it requires something significant to break the vicious circle.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2010, 08:17:05 PM
Roy Hodgson's CV prior to Fulham:

1976: Starts managerial career with Halmstad in Sweden, winning two championships.

1980: Joins Bristol City as the assistant manager to Bobby Houghton.

1982: Appointed manager at Ashton Gate but dismissed within four months after poor run of results when club are taken over by new owners. Returns to Sweden, where he manages Orebro and then Malmo, who won five consecutive championships and two Swedish Cups under him.

1990: Leaves Sweden for Switzerland, taking over at Neuchâtel Xamax.

1992: Becomes manager of Switzerland, whom he takes to the 1994 World Cup in the United States. Was in charge when they qualified for Euro 96.

1995: Appointed manager of Internazionale.

1997: Agrees to become Blackburn Rovers manager in the summer. While still at Inter, his side lose to German club Schalke in the Uefa Cup final on penalties.

1998: May – Takes Blackburn into European competition for the first time since 1995 but Rovers win only two of their final 11 Premier League matches to fail in chase for title.

November – Sacked by Blackburn with the club bottom of the Premier League, having taken just nine points from 14 games.

1999: Shortlisted for Austria job. Returns to Inter on 27 April as technical director until the end of the season. Joins Grasshoppers.

2000: Appointed coach of Danish side FC Copenhagen. Linked with England job after the resignation of Kevin Keegan.

2001: May – Takes Copenhagen to the Superliga title.

May – Takes over as coach of Serie A club Udinese.

10 December – Udinese and Hodgson part company.

2002: April – Appointed manager of United Arab Emirates.

2004: January – Sacked after leading side to fifth place at the Gulf Cup.

May – Joins Norwegian side Viking FK.

2005: August – Agrees to take over as manager of Finland.

2007: 30 November – Quits after failing to secure qualification for Euro 2008, and is immediately linked with the Republic of Ireland vacancy.


There's rather depressing twin themes running through his CV.

So where's the 'little Englanders' in the press that were lauding Hodgson in the Summer?

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 03, 2010, 08:32:42 PM
Obviously, that's a HUMILIATION, no other word for it.......

But we are still Liverpool Football Club...(just about?)......It may be the case that Roy is in over his head....even with shine-a-light resources and all our problems we still expect to beat Blackpool at home....The Liverpool manager should have other qualities and not be solely reliant on a chequebook....e.g. organisation, motivation, inspiration, tactical know-how, character, triumph over adversity etc....

But I'm not going to jump on the Roy out bandwagon, after all he's a decent football man and deserves an amount of respect.....When the time of reckoning comes over this FIASCO, CHRISTIAN PURSLOW SHOULD GET IT IN THE NECK.......
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 03, 2010, 09:01:17 PM
On vacation and just got access to the t'internet.  Blackpool beating us 2-1 at Anfield!  WTF is that all about???
 :o :o :o
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2010, 10:41:00 PM
Gurdeep, I wish we knew. Even more so, I wish the manager and players knew.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 03, 2010, 11:16:14 PM
He didn't but someone now has a decision to make. Whilst it goes against the grain in even thinking about him leaving I've seen nothing all season to suggest he can turn things around. There are enough decent players in the team to play better football than they're current playing.

Is it his tactics? Saying he'll give Babel a chance to prove himself and then not even selecting him in the squad is daft!

And why do we only seen to come to life after going behind? There are so many questions and so far, no answers.

There is definitely decisions that need to be made. What worries me is its like Benitez recently said, the current board have no clue about football.  Purslow hired Hodgson because he expected he would just come in challenge for a Champions League place no questions asked. What he didnt take into account that not only was Rafa tactically far superior but also Roys track record was ordinary as top managers go. Had Purslow bothered to scratch the surface he would have seen a Fulham team that had a couple of wins on their travels in 2 years.

For Purslow how Hodgson dealt with and was perceived by the media was also another key aspect of why he got the job. Well hes quickly learning press conferences dont win you games.

What do we do now? We have 3 options.

1) Leave things as they stand hope Roy can get the team firing. Once a takeover happens (assuming one is imminent) he will most likely be replaced by any incoming investor.

2) Ask Roy to make way for Kenny. We probably dont have the funds to terminate Roys contract. If Roys agrees to step aside Kenny can act as the interim manager until the takeover is finished. Then depending on results in that period he could either stay or make way for a manager approved by the new owners. The positive thing about this situation is that fans need not be worried about Kenny harming his reputation. The team is in such a bad state at the moment he couldnt do much worse.

3)Sack Roy and bring in a new outside man now. Realistically this is the least favourable firstly because we probably dont have cash to sack Roy and secondly what would be the point in hiring a new man when new owners may want to bring in their own man.

All of the above permutations assume that the RBS will take control of LFC or that a white knight will take us over before then.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 04, 2010, 12:52:38 PM
i can't see why folk want kenny appointed.

appointing kenny would be the final nail in our coffin.

AT BEST, he'd be no better than Roy.  But in reality, he'd be worse IMHO

Kenny has not managed at a top level for a couple of decades.

And when he enjoyed success it was at liverpool and blackburn - i.e. both clubs where he had a big chequebook  to deploy.....and at liverpool, he took over a successful juggernaut.

There are only a handful of top bosses who I'd want.  Sadly I fear none of them would come to Anfield, at least not while we under this dark cloud.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 04, 2010, 03:55:52 PM
This is a very good article about Roy. It explains to me why we've been so abject this season except in the early games - before Roy could impose his new plan on the players. http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/10/nice-man-wrong-job/

Having slept on it I still feel the same as yesterday. He should go. When you consistently fail to get any sort of performance out of so many players for so many games his tactics are a disaster. He's effectively 'broken' a reasonable team. I can't see any other reason why we've played so badly.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 04, 2010, 05:41:15 PM
This is taken from the Daily Mail site after yesterday's debacle...

Roy Hodgson faced up to Liverpool's worst start to a season for 57 years on Sunday and admitted his team are in a relegation battle.

Now if he really did say that then it's a disgraceful thing to say. Relegation happens at the end of the season. Not after 7 games. The word is completely irrelevant in October. It's like saying Anchelotti or Mancini saying they're championship contenders. Except of course they wouldn't.

So is this a direct quote from Roy or a journalists loaded question? Even if it was the latter surely he's clever enough to see where the journo's going and to give a more sensible anwer.

This team of players is too good to be relegated. Sadly, I'm not sure the same could be said of the manager.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 04, 2010, 05:59:48 PM
This from the Daily Telegraph report...

Roy Hodgson last night conceded Liverpool cannot regard themselves as being too big for the relegation battle after their Anfield defeat to Blackpool but insisted the club would finish the season nearer the top than the bottom of the table.

So it seems he has talked about relegation. Sorry Roy, you've done yourself no favours even mentioning it in October. It reminds me of Rafa's guarantee that we will finish 4th last season.  :o

Play wingers Roy. Use your players in their best position and go into attack mode from the first minute. Oh, and try playing Babel and Pacheco. The team comes before your personal likes and dislikes. Otherwise you end up looking like a fool and I'm sure you're not that. Just bloody stubborn!! Oh, and one last piece of advice. Play Kelly at RB, Johnson on the RW and Agger in CD. Give Skrtel or god forbid, Carragher, a rest.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 04, 2010, 06:35:37 PM
To be honest ASI I think it would just be burying our heads in the sand  not to mention relegation. Thats where we are right now. I know its a long season ahead but I heard Moyes be brutally honest and mention it a week or so back. I would find it more arrogant and dismissive if Roy were to avoid the mention of it.

Saw an article today that said Roy had until Christmas. The heading made it look like a quote from a Liverpool source. There wasnt a mention of a Christmas deadline from anyone in the article. Sensationalising rubbish. At this moment in time I think whoever is controlling things at the club will hold on to Roy until the takeover is resolved one way or another. After that Roys future will hopefully be in the hands of the new owners.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: PhilLFC on October 04, 2010, 07:07:34 PM
This is taken from the Daily Mail site after yesterday's debacle...

Roy Hodgson faced up to Liverpool's worst start to a season for 57 years on Sunday and admitted his team are in a relegation battle.

Now if he really did say that then it's a disgraceful thing to say. Relegation happens at the end of the season. Not after 7 games. The word is completely irrelevant in October. It's like saying Anchelotti or Mancini saying they're championship contenders. Except of course they wouldn't.

So is this a direct quote from Roy or a journalists loaded question? Even if it was the latter surely he's clever enough to see where the journo's going and to give a more sensible anwer.

This team of players is too good to be relegated. Sadly, I'm not sure the same could be said of the manager.
Hi there, i think roy said it to make the players sit up and take notice as they read the papers as much as we do..
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 04, 2010, 07:12:34 PM
To be honest ASI I think it would just be burying our heads in the sand  not to mention relegation. Thats where we are right now. I know its a long season ahead but I heard Moyes be brutally honest and mention it a week or so back. I would find it more arrogant and dismissive if Roy were to avoid the mention of it.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point Juan. Looking at the Wolves report on the Telegraph site there's no mention of relegation so why should there be for us? We're not in danger of relegation as there is 31 games to go. If we're still there come April then I'm prepared to concede relegation is a danger.

Quote
Saw an article today that said Roy had until Christmas. The heading made it look like a quote from a Liverpool source. There wasnt a mention of a Christmas deadline from anyone in the article. Sensationalising rubbish. At this moment in time I think whoever is controlling things at the club will hold on to Roy until the takeover is resolved one way or another. After that Roys future will hopefully be in the hands of the new owners.

Quite frankly, if he doesn't change the tactics then he won't last until then but I think he'll outstay the current owners. We know the players are capable of better. It's only the formation and tactics that have brought us to this low point. I accept some players have not performed in some games but for all 7 Prem games to have produced no good overall team performance (Arsenal excepted with Masch present and 10 men) then there's an underlying problem which needs addressing.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 04, 2010, 07:14:55 PM
Hi there, i think roy said it to make the players sit up and take notice as they read the papers as much as we do..
Phil, I'm sure the players are well aware of the fact without Roy having to say as much to the press. I imagine he was scathing of them yesterday in the dressing room, the game before that, and the one before that etc. etc.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 04, 2010, 07:38:18 PM
I suppose a fair enough reflection of things from Andy Hunter

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/oct/04/roy-hodgson-liverpool


Spectre of Kenny Dalglish lurks over Roy Hodgson at Liverpool

Defeat against Everton on 17 October could see the manager replaced by a club legend at Anfield

Roy Hodgson's position at Liverpool is under threat following Sunday's 2-1 defeat to Blackpool Roy Hodgson's position as the Liverpool manager is under great pressure following Sunday's defeat to Blackpool.

It is Saturday, 16 October, and the eve of the first Merseyside derby of the season. There is a collective hangover in the red half of the city in response to the Royal Bank of Scotland ending the toxic reign of Tom Hicks and George Gillett the previous day and Roy Hodgson is invited to meet Liverpool's ambitious and solvent new owners. This is all fantasy. He is asked why he should continue as Liverpool manager if his side lose at Goodison Park. This is not fantasy. This is the question legitimately being asked by Liverpool supporters right now.

The Kop's call for Kenny Dalglish towards the end of Sunday's defeat by Blackpool represented a seismic moment in Liverpool's history. A support that prides itself on patience and loyalty humiliated its manager after 14 matches in charge. This is a position treated with reverence at Anfield and has prompted outright revolt only once – against Graeme Souness – since Bill Shankly 'made the people happy'. There is no connection with Hodgson, and Hodgson has offered nothing to warrant the affections of Anfield. Quite the reverse in fact, and the tide may feel irreversible if Liverpool endure further misery at Everton.

Anfield was braced for its primal scream on Sunday. Three debt-laden years under Hicks and Gillett has created a trickle-down effect and protests are no longer confined to the streets outside the stadium or to American businessmen. That is not simply due to a series of pitiful performances, many Hodgson has defended, but because the 63-year-old is emblematic of the club's decline and has hardened suspicions that he was appointed by the managing director, Christian Purslow, for reasons of compliability. Or to "steady the ship", as the club's chairman Martin Broughton put it.

Liverpool spent £9m to change their manager this summer (agreeing a £6m pay-off with Rafael Benítez and paying £3m compensation to Fulham for Hodgson), a hefty sum for any club. For £9m you would expect improvement in the manager's chair but Purslow replaced a European Cup and La Liga winner with a man whose CV is more impressive for the destinations travelled than trophies lifted.

Whatever one thought of Benítez, and it is a personal view that he was moved to ease the torturous sale process, it is hard to disagree with his recent assessment of the Liverpool hierarchy. "The last year at Liverpool I had directors who knew nothing about football and you couldn't talk about football with them," he said.

At his unveiling on 1 July, Hodgson was asked if he had accepted an impossible job. He rejected the notion in an accomplished, refreshingly honest press conference that did not set the tone for subsequent performances. Eleven years after his last caretaker stint at Internazionale, and nine since his last silverware, a Danish league and cup double with Copenhagen, it was certainly true that he had been presented with a glorious managerial opportunity. And equally true that it is being squandered.

Negative tactics home and away, new signings looking out of their depth or played out of position (£5m Christian Poulsen and £11.7m Raul Meireles respectively) and poor individual contributions from the likes of Fernando Torres and Glen Johnson have not given the impression of a steady pair of hands. There have also been several PR errors of astonishing naivety. Dismissing the Spirit of Shankly and those whose love for Liverpool is now an exercise in protest and business studies as "a group of people" was one way of alienating the hardcore. Not a wise move when the majority of Liverpool supporters were ambivalent towards his appointment to begin with, and many view his reign as a short-term assignment en route to the England job in 2012.

Veiled criticism of Torres's form before the Blackpool game may have been justified but will not help his rapport with an increasingly disillusioned striker. Refusing to take his friend Sir Alex Ferguson to task on Torres after the recent defeat at Old Trafford, and giving the impression that what is good enough for Fulham should suffice at Liverpool, have also been noted.

In the background looms Dalglish, a club legend who was asked to consider the candidates to replace Benítez this summer, did so, and promptly submitted his own application. Purslow and Broughton rejected the chance to restore cohesion between the dug-out and the stands. The Kop's call on Sunday can be viewed as condemnation both of Hodgson's team and of the events surrounding his appointment. Dalglish is affordable and available, two qualities that surely deserve greater consideration by a board seeking to install new owners and who will not want the cost or embarrassment of another change. There is a Newcastle and Kevin Keegan messianic aspect to a Dalglish return at Anfield, who made it known during recent promotion for his latest autobiography that he "feels I've got a debt to repay".

Deep-rooted problems means there is no easy way back for Liverpool whoever is in charge. But for Hodgson to keep the spectre of Dalglish at bay and to deliver a convincing case for his employment under a new regime, he needs to deliver at Goodison in 13 days' time.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 04, 2010, 08:01:33 PM
i can't see why folk want kenny appointed.

appointing kenny would be the final nail in our coffin.

AT BEST, he'd be no better than Roy.  But in reality, he'd be worse IMHO

Kenny has not managed at a top level for a couple of decades.

And when he enjoyed success it was at liverpool and blackburn - i.e. both clubs where he had a big chequebook  to deploy.....and at liverpool, he took over a successful juggernaut.

There are only a handful of top bosses who I'd want.  Sadly I fear none of them would come to Anfield, at least not while we under this dark cloud.

Dude when Rafa got the bullet it wasnt long before Roy became firm favourite for the job. It was another while before he was actually given it. In between all of that many managers were interviewed and I'm sure you will remember it almost became a daily occurrence when one of Europes top managers would rule themselves out of the job.

So for me it was either give it to Roy who has vast experience of the game, managed in leagues all over the world  but has actually won what really amounts to nothing or give it to Kenny someone who is steeped in the clubs history, who has links to some of the greatest managers and players the likes of which this club may never see again. He was the last man to win us the league and subsequently did it again with Blackburn a couple of years later.  He may not have managed for over a decade but I would prefer a man like Kenny that once offered so much as manager than a guy like Roy who although hes been working for the 12 years that Kenny hasnt has always offered little in terms of success.

Its not a case of choosing Kenny over Mourihno or Hiddink. Kennys appointment would have been an interim appointment until he could prove he still had what it takes or until the owners could afford a manager that had the right credentials.

Now that Kennys name is being brought up by the fans again I'm not sure what the board should do. As Andy Hunter suggests lose to Everton and I would have no problem handing Kenny the job on a temporary basis again.

I know Dude your puzzled by why people would want Kenny back but I have to say I'm equally puzzled as to why people would not be willing to give him a chance. Would it not be worth the risk it to see if he could build a team like the great ones he played with in the past?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 05, 2010, 12:10:01 AM
i can't see why folk want kenny appointed.

appointing kenny would be the final nail in our coffin.

AT BEST, he'd be no better than Roy.  But in reality, he'd be worse IMHO

Kenny has not managed at a top level for a couple of decades.

And when he enjoyed success it was at liverpool and blackburn - i.e. both clubs where he had a big chequebook  to deploy.....and at liverpool, he took over a successful juggernaut.

There are only a handful of top bosses who I'd want.  Sadly I fear none of them would come to Anfield, at least not while we under this dark cloud.

Dude, it's just like the Geordies and 'King Kev' or 'Wor Al'.

We should and probably still could get Pelligrini.  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 05, 2010, 12:12:56 AM
I know Dude your puzzled by why people would want Kenny back but I have to say I'm equally puzzled as to why people would not be willing to give him a chance. Would it not be worth the risk it to see if he could build a team like the great ones he played with in the past?

Juan, I guess some of us don't want his legend tarnished and especially not under the current mess.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 05, 2010, 01:58:51 AM
Dude's right....Daglish, my boll*cks (pardon my swearing)....great guy, legend....but this is no time for sentiment....

Meantime Roy needs to man up....be the man....rise like a sphinx and rule the roost (btw we don't mention the R word at LFC....that's defeatist nonsense....mention it again and it's the exit door, I'm afraid...F**k Offf....seriously).

Hopefully the players are looking at themselves in the mirror and asking whether they're fit to wear the shirt....Simple answer THEY'RE NOT!!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 05, 2010, 03:20:25 AM
Quote from: Gurdeep on October 03, 2010, 09:01:17 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg17679#msg17679)<blockquote>On vacation and just got access to the t'internet.  Blackpool beating us 2-1 at Anfield!  WTF is that all about???
 :o :o :o





on 'vacation' ?

yer not one of them thur yankees perchance, Gurdeep?

 ;D
</blockquote>
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: subsy on October 05, 2010, 10:11:04 AM
I can't make my mind up about Kenny. Roy is fecking things up proper good right now that's for sure and it's a difficult time to be told to have patience... the prospect of top players leaving in January seems very real now.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 05, 2010, 08:23:29 PM
Quote from: Gurdeep on October 03, 2010, 09:01:17 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg17679#msg17679)<blockquote>On vacation and just got access to the t'internet.  Blackpool beating us 2-1 at Anfield!  WTF is that all about???
 :o :o :o





on 'vacation' ?





yer not one of them thur yankees perchance, Gurdeep?

 ;D
</blockquote>

10 years and counting working for a Denver based company the lingo kinda starts to rub off  :(

Anywho, time to go and leverage a nice lamb curry...





Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 06, 2010, 12:01:10 PM
based in denver then, gurdeep.  What's it like there? 
 
By the way, I see your forum posts look like mine (e.g. see your above post where you quote me).  Are you also using windows 7?
 
 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 06, 2010, 04:27:16 PM
But Hodgson needs to leave says Liverpool legend Whelan

By Paul Hyland Wednesday October 06 2010


RONNIE Whelan is urging Liverpool fans to take a step back before they crack open the bubbly and wave goodbye to Tom Hicks and Geroge Gillett. But if the prospective new owners, the New England Sports Ventures (NESV) group, want to do things right, they should reinstate the "Bootroom" immediately and look to the past for the way forward.

The NESV consortium which currently owns the Boston Red Sox has tabled a debt-clearing bid for Liverpool which has been accepted by the Anfield Board but not by Hicks and Gillett, who intend to go to court to protect their investment.

"I am delighted that we have been able to successfully conclude the sale process which has been thorough and extensive," said Anfield Chairman Martin Broughton.

"I am only disappointed that the owners have tried everything to prevent the deal from happening and that we need to go through legal proceedings in order to complete the sale."

Against that background, former Liverpool legend and Evening Herald columnist Whelan is not counting his chickens yet.

"On the face of it, it looks like the deal which Liverpool fans have been waiting for but let's wait and see what NESV are bringing to the table before making any judgements," said Whelan.

Whelan is convinced that no matter what happens, the new owners need to clear the decks and that means an early exit for Roy Hodgson.

"This needs a clean slate and I'm sure that's what these people will think. I've got nothing against Hodgson. He's just in the wrong place at the wrong time," added Whelan.

Already, bookies have made Martin O'Neill (right) and Kenny Dalglish (left) the top picks for the Anfield job but there is a Liverpool connection with Boston, the home of the new owners.

Stevie Nicol is now in his second successful stint as the head coach at the New England Revolution, a club owned by billionaire Robert Kraft who expressed an interest in investing in Liverpool five years ago.



http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/but-hodgson-needs-to-leave-says-liverpool-legend-whelan-2367002.html (http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/but-hodgson-needs-to-leave-says-liverpool-legend-whelan-2367002.html)

Maybe Ronnie could have a go, seeing as he did such a sterling at Southend. Sad to see the parody that he's become.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 06, 2010, 06:06:36 PM
But Hodgson needs to leave says Liverpool legend Whelan

Maybe Ronnie could have a go, seeing as he did such a sterling at Southend. Sad to see the parody that he's become.

Ronnies an absolute idiot. Thats one thing I have to say about alot of Liverpools old school players, they all turned out to be bitter opinionated c*nts that seem to have less than an ounce of respect for the club. Whelan was shouting for Rafa to go for years, he never gave him credit. If it was someone more respected saying time for Roy to go I may even agree but Whelan dont listen to a word he says.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 06, 2010, 06:21:59 PM
Very good Paul Tomkins article on Roy (Wow I thought Tomkins was Mr positive maybe not, I agree with everything he says though) ;

My new book ranks managers in a unique way: amongst other things, working out how much it cost them to win each point, in relation to the expense of team they sent out in every single one of their games.

In reference only to Premier League games, it shows that Graeme Souness did a great job at Blackburn . (He even won the League Cup, but we looked only at the league.)

It shows that, in the end, Roy Hodgson did a terrible job at Blackburn (the worst relegation ever, for which he was largely responsible, as the man who guided the team to just one win in their first 14 games).

It shows that Souness did a terrible job at Newcastle (and Liverpool , but you knew that already).

It shows that Hodgson did a great job at Fulham. (But not better than Chris Coleman, incidentally.)

Above all else, we highlight, time and time again, examples of good managers faltering when asked to manage bigger clubs.

In his last 21 league games at a club expected to finish in the top six (Blackburn and Liverpool ), Hodgson has won a measly two. Two wins. He left Blackburn when they were rooted to the bottom; he currently has Liverpool in the relegation zone.

But Roy seems oblivious.

“It is insulting to suggest that because you move to a new club, your methods suddenly don’t work when they’ve held you in good stead for 35 years and made you one of the most respected coaches in Europe . It’s unbelievable.”

Joe Kinnear did a great job at Wimbledon in the ‘90s; no big club in their right mind would want him anywhere near them these days. (And that’s right, at the time Newcastle weren’t a club in their right mind, either.)

Different methods are needed at different clubs because a different kind of result and performance is expected. The pressure if very different, on you and your players. You cannot set up to sit off teams when you’re a big club.

And every last error is magnified. But that’s the reason why those who succeed are made of different stuff.

Now, I write this not from the perspective of someone who expected Liverpool to be in the top four, now or in May. Or even the top eight at this point, after the fixtures we’ve had.

I write it from a refusal to accept that even with the financial problems, this is a bottom-half-of-the-table side, let alone one that should be in the relegation zone, even at what remains an early stage of the season. Teething problems are to be expected; but this feels like a dentist going at us with a pair of rusty pliers, turning a modest smile into a bloody grimace.

Yet I’ve been inundated with suggestions that it’s all Rafa’s fault. They keep coming, on and on and on. On Sky Sports, Jamie Redknapp, aided and abetted by Richard Keys and the guilt-free Souness, blamed Rafa. He’d spent loads of money and the squad wasn’t good enough.

Well, not good enough for what? Only a year ago most of those players were supposed to be good enough to challenge for the title, and it was apparently only Benítez holding them back. As many as 15 of them were at the World Cup (not always as superstars, but there all the same).

Alan Hansen is now blaming players left by Rafa, such as Ngog (our top goalscorer this season), Kyrgiakos (gives 100%) and has said Kuyt never steps up to the plate. He says it’s too early to judge Roy ’s summer signings, but did criticise Jovanovic, Rafa’s summer signing.

The Squad This Summer

Hansen also mentions that Roy inherited a one-man team. I thought Alan could count a bit better than that.

Reina, Gerrard, Torres: three of the best players in their position in the country, if not the world. Any club would want them, and Rafa bought two of the three. (Same applied to Mascherano.)

Agger: a thoroughbred centre-back. Wanted by AC Milan in the fairly recent past. Skrtel: another very fine centre-back. Roughly £6m each. Kyrgiakos: about as decent as you’ll get for 4th choice at £1.5m. Then there’s Carragher; well past his best, but not exactly finished. (Trouble is, he’s undroppable.)

Johnson: one of the best attacking right-backs in the world; in the right system, likely to create loads of chances in a game (defending not the best, but faults exaggerated this season from being too exposed).

Aquilani: over his injury problems, and such a clever player who’s … now in the Juventus team. Not that Liverpool are short of passing invention (sigh). Effectively given away for the season.

Lucas, Maxi: not spectacular, but good enough to play for Brazil and Argentina . Maxi, in particular, became a key player towards the end of last season. Lucas seemed to be really progressing last season too, but has struggled this year. Then again, he looks like Pele next to Poulsen, who has usurped him.

Jovanovic – another experienced international. Not sure about him yet, but pedigree is there. Insua is another player who came in for criticism, but had the potential to improve; at 21, full-backs are just starting out.

Kuyt: not everyone’s cup of tea, but almost every manager in the game sings his praises. Integral to Holland reaching World Cup final. Guarantees 10-15 goals from the wing almost every season, and as many assists. Does the work of two players. (Hansen thinks he never steps up to the plate, but look at all the goals he’s scored and created in big games.)

Kelly and Pacheco: two youngsters with a lot of quality. Not really been trusted in the league this season, even though they are now one year older and, people expected, sure to be knocking on the door. Pacheco not even making the bench. Jonjo Shelvey – one for the future, and possibly the near future at the rate Poulsen is going. N’Gog – just 21, and just £1.5m, but seven goals already this season. Kelly was home-grown, Pacheco part of Rafa’s Spanish connection.

Ryan Babel – frustrating? Hell yes. Likely to leave, whatever happens? Yes, too. But also, good from the bench? Yes, clearly. Not trusted before the Northampton game and now totally bombed out as a result. Roy said he’d been unfairly treated in the past, but now fails to even include him in the entire squad (and this is without inappropriate Twittering). Always a handy option with his pace on the wing, but Roy sees him as a striker (who doesn’t play), and Roy doesn’t use wingers.

Benayoun and Mascharano were also part of the squad Rafa left. Of course, they’ve moved on, through no fault of Roy ’s. But Roy did get £26m from those two to buy replacements. Riera and a couple of others went, too, which at least allowed Roy to bring in a number of his own players, four of whom have been regular starters when fit.

But of course, Roy didn’t get all of the transfer money to reinvest; it’s wrong to expect the squad to be quite as strong as it was. Yet by the logic used to frequently slate Rafa, Roy “has spent a lot of money”; the Reds were behind only Manchester City and Chelsea in terms of money ‘spent’. However, the Reds ranked 1st in terms of money recouped. Rafa’s net spend was never that high; Roy ’s isn’t either.

All in all, however, there’s enough there to be expecting a whole lot better than the relegation zone at this stage (for the first time in over 50 years) and out of a domestic cup to the lowest-ranked team to beat the Reds in 50 years. Rafa was sacked because he could only finish 7th with players that the media said should be doing better. The summer was supposed to be all about the feelgood factor: Gerrard, Torres, Cole; new manager, hip hip hooray.

There’s been no great injury crisis, and if anything, the Reds have had a bit of the luck (contrast Sunderland goal with beach ball one, and bizarre free-kick award against Blackpool ) that they lacked last season. But worse than the results, performances have been universally poor; every single first-half in 14 games has been dire. Last year was pretty bad, but there were good displays too.

There’s been no apparent method, and rather than tighten up at the back, it’s as if Phil Babb has returned with his mate Tubby Ruddock. The centre of the midfield was so invisible at times against Blackpool it was as stupefying. Gerrard was AWOL and Poulsen was lost at sea, considered dead.

The stats are damning. Liverpool have had just 65 attempts at goal this season, and the opposition have had 77 against us. Stoke have had more goal attempts.

What the Rafa-haters didn’t foresee was that while a change of manager might help some players, it could also hinder others.

“My methods have translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchatel Xamax to the Swiss national team and many other jobs as well.” Roy Hodgson.

But not to Blackburn , and only moderately so to Inter Milan (15 years ago; good first season, less good second season).

And with all due respect, none of those clubs Roy mentioned is in a major league, or is a major nation; these are not household names. Roy had the Swiss national team playing well in 1994; but then Roy Evans had Liverpool playing well around the same time. George Graham took Arsenal to a European final that year. Football has evolved dramatically in that time.

Liverpool still have a core of excellent players. And the club has its talent on the fringes. It may not be a top four squad anymore, due to too many sales in relation to purchases since 2008, but is should not even be a bottom-half of the table squad, let alone end the weekend in the relegation zone for the first time since 1964 (after a minimum of three games played).

Conceding six goals at home to Northampton , Sunderland and Blackpool , and winning none of those games, all in the space of 10 days, is unacceptable. The performances have offered nothing to cling on to. In the three most recent Anfield games the Reds have been outclassed. Blackpool were a credit to the game of football.

I’m not especially angry at Roy . I feel some sympathy for him; I don’t enjoy watching a man apparently out of his depth, flailing and drowning.

But he should not have been appointed in the first place. I won’t bring myself to say he must be sacked – he has the job, so now he needs to prove he deserves it – but as I said in the summer, his appointment was always more of a risk than the ‘safe hands’ tag suggested. And if his team loses the Merseyside derby, the calls for his resignation will be deafening.

‘Going English’ with the manager and transfers might have worked as a policy, but it needed money; therefore, drastic change was not a wise move. James Milner is a good English player, for example. He cost £26m. But without the budget, the Reds tried a sea-change, a U-turn.

This is all the folly of Christian Purslow, and that of his media cronies who badgered Benítez at every turn. (Yes, you know who you are.)

The history of warning was there with Hodgson at Blackburn, and the history there was in Spain , too.

As soon as Rafa left Valencia they crumbled. Spectacularly. The players who had wanted him gone realised the error of their ways. Valencia overachieved massively during his three seasons. After, they didn’t so much find their true level as sink right through it.

If you replace a world-class manager, you need to get it right.

Roy’s Mistakes?


• Calling the players who lost in the Carling Cup the ‘B team’, and blaming it all on them.

• Not defending Torres, saying Alex Ferguson has a right to his opinion; that opinion being that Torres is a cheat.

• Criticising the fan protests. (He’s backtracked on these last two points, but the damage was done.)

• Picking a (virtually) full-strength team away in the Europa League, and expecting Torres’ muscles to be 100% three days later. I thought he was going to use the ‘B’ team in the early stages, as he did at Fulham?

• Not buying a striker; I know Rafa struggled to find one at the right price, but it was the clear priority of the summer. Aquilani was bought to replace Alonso, and was now fit; and so, instead of going for Meireles and then not using him properly, why not keep Aquilani and buy a striker?

• Leaving it to the 80-minute mark in several games to make the first change, when a result was needed. (One of the TTT subscribers sits behind the manager’s dugout, and said he’d never seen a Liverpool manager so passive during a match.)

• And do we really want to see Kyrgiakos as a centre-forward late in games against Northampton and Blackpool ? Admittedly it nearly worked, but if we have to resort to desperate long-balls rather than try and play through lesser teams at Anfield, it’s a sign of grave concern.

• Alienating Agger. Potentially a world-class centre-back. But doesn’t fit Roy ’s style, which involves not taking chances with footballers in defence. One of the best players at the club, but not utilised.

• Loaning out Insua and Aquilani, without sufficient replacements. (Might not all be Roy ’s fault, this one, with Insua apparently offered to clubs by the Reds’ hierarchy.)

• Paying £5m for mediocre players who are near the end of their careers (Konchesky, and the frankly risible Poulsen). Paying £11m for Meireles – a very good player – and using him as a wide midfielder (albeit one forced to play horribly narrow). Saying Rafael Van Der Vaart doesn’t fit the profile of the kind of player he was interested in.

Biggest Error

And the biggest one of all: taking a team with players suited to pressing and rather than working with what he had, trying to reverse it. If anything was broken under Benítez, it was his relationship with Carragher and Gerrard, and one or two less-influential players.

The tactics were not the issue (look at how they were often successfully deployed at the World Cup) and maybe now people are seeing that.

Liverpool pressed high and hard – and fast from the start – and it suited Torres, Kuyt and Gerrard. It made it easier to create chances, because errors were forced. It gave the game some energy.

It now suits Samuel Eto’o at Inter: “With Mourinho we played on the counter-attack, with Benítez we press more and that’s better for us forwards because we win back the ball higher up the pitch and create more chances.”

Eto’o has 11 goals already this season, after just 16 last time. Torres has … one.

Last season I noted that Rafa was the only manager to get more than an average amount of goals from Torres. At the time, I wasn’t sure if it was just coincidence, or maybe due to the very detailed and specific advice Rafa gave him (which Torres said was incredible). Now, I’m starting to think it was mostly tactical.

Torres’ goal record in Spain was not the best; consistent, yes, but never above 13 from open play in a season (in one year he scored six additional goals from the spot). For Spain , it’s a decent international record, but not outstanding. ( Spain also press, but they often delay the final pass; Torres needs the ball earlier.)

For Torres under Hodgson, it’s … one goal in nine games.

Now, he hasn’t been 100% fit. And it’s early days. But he wasn’t fully fit for large parts of the previous two seasons. And he still got 14 in 24, and 18 in 22, in those two Premier League campaigns. Often he was coming back from injury, but rarely did he look this out of sorts. Rarely was he so starved of service, so isolated; an island within Anfield.

Perhaps the new style of play doesn’t suit him? He’ll always be a great striker – pace, power, eye for all types of goal – but the tactics were always tailored to his strengths. Now it seems tailored to the strengths of Bobby Zamora.

Now, if Roy wants to change the team’s entire style, that’s down to him. But it can be argued that it makes more sense to work with what he has (or for the club to employ someone to do so), in a way that suits the players, than force his ideas onto them; especially as he doesn’t have the money to buy those who’d fit better into his system. (Not being funny, but right now, Emile Heskey would probably be better at what Torres is being asked to do.)

The style – which Hodgson has made clear he’s carried with him for 35 years – is being forced onto the players. If it works, great. If it doesn’t? Buck. Stops. There.

The next few weeks are vital in the future of the club, and so any decision can wait until that is resolved, and until after the Everton game. Win that game, and Roy might have a chance of taking his ideas into a new regime (if one finally arrives).

Fickle

I don’t want to appear fickle, but can I really be that if I never wanted him in the first place? I said as much in the summer. I didn’t say that Roy would definitely fail, but I did feel that his experience at Blackburn should not be brushed under the carpet, and that his achievements at Fulham, while admirable, do not necessarily transfer to a bigger club. I looked at his low-scoring teams that eked out a lot of draws, and that included his previous jobs at Blackburn and Inter Milan too.

Yes, I continue to remain annoyed at how the world-class manager we had was treated. But that’s a separate issue to this. (Although the media keep merging the two.)

If you have to sack a manager, you find a suitable replacement; not just one who speaks perfect English and makes life as easy as possible for you. And you don’t try to reverse a successful culture (Spanish) for one that has more faults. After all, how many great English players has the club purchased in the last 20 years? And how many great Spanish ones in the last six years alone?

If Roy stays, and turns things around, I’ll happily hold up my hands. If he wins, I win too. But if he fails, and fails as thoroughly as he currently is, it needs pointing out.

It needs pointing out that the owners are a cancer, and that those running the club know next to nothing about football. It needs to be pointed out that some players wanted an English manager, who would comfort them. We needed rid of rotation, zonal marking, Gerrard in centre-midfield, 4-4-2, and a manager who didn’t celebrate goals with backflips. How’s that working out?

It needs to be pointed out that on the basis of his team’s incoherent performances and his own bizarre press conferences, Roy Hodgson looks like the right man in the wrong job.

“I’ve had two-and-a-half wonderful years (at Fulham) where nothing ever negative was said about me and my team. Now maybe people are saying negative things. It doesn’t change anything. I work the same way as I did last year.” Roy Hodgson
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 06, 2010, 08:02:47 PM
based in denver then, gurdeep.  What's it like there? 
 
By the way, I see your forum posts look like mine (e.g. see your above post where you quote me).  Are you also using windows 7?

Denver, unfortunately not.  Based in Bracknell and London however I did travel to Denver quite often before the global feckup kicked in.

About the windows issue, no.  Been using the iPhone whilst on my travels and still use XP pro.
Title: Re: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: subsy on October 06, 2010, 08:59:16 PM
Gurdeep, I'm in Wokingham. :)

Denver, unfortunately not.  Based in Bracknell and London however I did travel to Denver quite often before the global feckup kicked in.

About the windows issue, no.  Been using the iPhone whilst on my travels and still use XP pro.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 07, 2010, 02:32:55 AM
Cheers for the Tomkins link Juan!! I agree 100% and have reasonably said as much myself recently....Hodgson has an opportunity to make amends, make things right....a test of character....personally, I'm rooting for him but.....in my opinion he has already damaged the reputation of the club....so unfortunately, I don't think he has much time to do it....I just don't think he has the motherf*cker in him (appalling language again, sorry!).....you have to tame the beast or it will devour you...good luck Roy!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on October 07, 2010, 05:20:51 AM
Good article by Tomkins...i think Roy has till Xmas before any decision is made...the new owner, John Henry and the rest of us will see if Roy has 'stepped up to the plate' by then (oh no! the baseball puns begin) ...
If he hasnt and we're still playing with little direction and no passion then it's a strikeout! (noooooo)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 07, 2010, 06:51:53 AM
Good article by Tomkins...i think Roy has till Xmas before any decision is made...the new owner, John Henry and the rest of us will see if Roy has 'stepped up to the plate' by then (oh no! the baseball puns begin) ...

 ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 07, 2010, 11:26:03 AM
Ed, Barticus I think if we were to lose to Everton there may not be any coming back from that for Roy.  He is certainly losing or testing fans support at the moment and I think another loss to Everton away could push a lot  of fans over the edge. Plus it looks by then the whole ownershio saga will be sorted so Roy will be hoping fans dont need their fix of protesting and turn their attentions to having him sacked  ;D.

Apparently there is a contract in Roys clause about a takeover;

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=830526&sec=england&cc=5739

ESPNsoccernet can reveal that Roy Hodgson has a specific break clause in his Liverpool contract that allows the club to replace him if there is a change in ownership of the club.

Hodgson signed the contract in the summer knowing that his future would be immediately on the agenda, without or without the 'escape clause' loaded on Liverpool's side.

However, ESPNsoccernet also understands that a pay-off is part of the same clause and Hodgson would expect to be compensated in full.

However, it can also be disclosed that the prospective new owners from the States have so far given no indication whatsoever about the future of Hodgson and the three man delegation from the owners of the Boston Red Sox parent company have yet to meet the manager. So far, though, the earlier indicators are that Hodgson will not be replaced.

The subject of Hodgson's future has not been part of the negotiations between New England Sports Venture (NESV) and chairman Martin Broughton.

A Liverpool spokesman said: "There's a commitment to the manager. They are very happy that this manager is the right person to take the club forward."

The present board appointed Hodgson, so would give him time to prove himself, but the attitude of the new owners so far unknown. However, past experiences show that new owners give the incumbent manager some time to prove himself before contemplating a change. How long that would be would depend on the results in the next few games.

An insider told ESPNsoccernet: "The new owners haven't met the manager yet, they are sure to want to sit down with him, talk to him and see if they can work with him.

"But in all the discussions it has never been raised, the issue of perhaps replacing the manager, it certainly hasn't come up in conversation."

Hodgson has welcomed news of the planned sale of the club.

"It's very positive and of course I'm delighted,'' he said. "It's been going on a long time and I know how hard the board have worked to set things up.

"I know it's not easy for them because the owners have other ideas in terms of the sale of the club and what is achievable.

"But I was delighted to hear the news and have it confirmed that it looks like it is going to go through.''
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2010, 07:26:21 PM
So Roy's contract is so short it's only a clause. We know he was short term, strategic appointment, but poor bloke. Even O'Neill had a contract of sorts.  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2010, 07:38:09 PM
Juan, I'd rather see who is on the board that Red Henry appoints before considering the manager's position. We need people with football knowledge as well as business savvy. If it's Purslow and someone like him then who knows who we'll end up with.

Bayern, if I've remembered correctly (so what I'm about to write is probably totally wromg), have a business board and a football board. How the two mesh and who has he final say on what, I don't know, but's an interesting concept.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 07, 2010, 07:43:02 PM
Hey Juan, certainly the result against Everton is important......but what gets on my nerves with respect to Roy is What he says, How he says it, His general demeanour in the dugout and How the team performs....I'll back a guy if he comes out and says we defended sh*t today, it's not acceptable and then the following week there is a change....

I don't necessarily expect miracles in our current situation, but it is frustrating when it's not exactly clear what he's trying to do and i find him quite vague with respect to this...Even if he was to say I'm very confident in the team and it's only a matter of weeks before were winning games etc....What's lacking for me is passion, confidence, anger and ambition.....maybe that's the kind of guy he is.....problem is, in the meantime we're becoming a bit of a laughing stock  :-[
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 07, 2010, 07:43:51 PM
Juan, I'd rather see who is on the board that Red Henry appoints before considering the manager's position. We need people with football knowledge as well as business savvy. If it's Purslow and someone like him then who knows who we'll end up with.

Bayern, if I've remembered correctly (so what I'm about to write is probably totally wromg), have a business board and a football board. How the two mesh and who has he final say on what, I don't know, but's an interesting concept.

Not a bad plan, Kenny heading up the football board.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 07, 2010, 07:53:22 PM
Hey Juan, certainly the result against Everton is important......but what gets on my nerves with respect to Roy is What he says, How he says it, His general demeanour in the dugout and How the team performs....I'll back a guy if he comes out and says we defended sh*t today, it's not acceptable and then the following week there is a change....

I don't necessarily expect miracles in our current situation, but it is frustrating when it's not exactly clear what he's trying to do and i find him quite vague with respect to this...Even if he was to say I'm very confident in the team and it's only a matter of weeks before were winning games etc....What's lacking for me is passion, confidence, anger and ambition.....maybe that's the kind of guy he is.....problem is, in the meantime we're becoming a bit of a laughing stock  :-[

I know what you mean Ed. To be honest I havent minded his off field performance, he tends to say the right thing in the right way. As you say the problem is that he doesnt really seem to change whats happening on the pitch. There are so many examples its frustrating but Roy just perseveres. Johnson at right back, Carragher centre back are to name a few that have been driving me bananas. To see Torres get balls lumped up to him against Birmingham and expected to make something out of them. Substitutions, tactics, picking players performing poorly,  up to now he seems to have shown flaws with all of them. If he continues in the same way I dont think he will last looking so misguided in every department.  Hes in the big league now, we need to be winning every game for a crack at the title. Two away wins in two years might have sufficed at Fulham but that wont work here so he needs to step up fast.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 07, 2010, 11:22:26 PM
like Tes says, I am warming to our present board - especially Broughton. 
 
Broughton knew what he was dealing with (devilish toxic yanks)......he knew what had to do......and he did it.  He seems (tho let's hope a judge agrees) to have totally out-manoevered Hicks.  Indeed Hicks looks a fool.
 
I'd love to see someone like david dein on our board (managing director).  If BA ever ditch Broughton, I'd like to see him on the board too. 
 
Dalglish wanted to manage the club again and to talk to everton about a shared stadium.  I cannot agree with him on either score and thus cannot see myself ever wanting him on the board.  He needs to be our worldwide lifetime ambassador (same role as bobby charlton has with united). 
 
PS - I see that p.rick Ray Houghton has been shouting today also about a joint stadium with everton. 
 
 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 16, 2010, 11:00:53 AM
Roy is looking to be backed by the new owners. I'm sorry to say I dont see why they should back him. New owners have taken over an ailing club with an ailing team on the pitch. They wont want to ignore the fact that the team is playing so badly. Part of Roys terrible start can be put down to the takeover cloud but only a small part. If anything I think Roy needs to be saying that its up to him in the next 6 games to prove he has what it takes to manage Liverpool. And if the next six games dont see a massive improvement well then on yer bike Roy.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6447108,00.html

Liverpool boss Roy Hodgson has called on the club's new owners to back his efforts to lift the Reds out of the relegation zone.

The Anfield outfit's protracted takeover saga was finally resolved on Friday when New England Sports Ventures (NESV) saw their £300million offer go through.

NESV, who also own the Boston Red Sox and are fronted by John W Henry, claimed power from Tom Hicks and George Gillett after courtroom battles either side of the Atlantic, although the duo are refusing to go quietly.

Attention will now turn again to events on the field, where the Reds have endured a miserable start to the season, suffering humiliating home defeats at the hands of Northampton in the Carling Cup and Blackpool in the Premier League.

The reverse at the hands of the newly-promoted Seasiders saw the Kop turn their anger towards Hodgson, with chants of 'Dalglish, Dalglish' demonstrating that some supporters were keen for Reds legend Kenny Dalglish to take the helm.

But the former Fulham boss, who only replaced Rafa Benitez at the helm in the summer, has called for everyone to pull together in a bid to lift Liverpool out of the doldrums.

The first challenge for the now NESV-owned Reds is Sunday's Merseyside derby against Everton at Goodison Park, with Hodgson warning against knee-jerk reactions should results not immediately improve.
Fresh start

Hodgson said: "I know I can turn it around but I need the patience and support to do it.

"All clubs need stability - managers and players as well - but that is becoming a very hard thing to find.

"I've always expected new owners and put my faith in the board to choose the right ones. From what I know of NESV and the Red Sox, they know their stuff and will be good for the club.

"This is a fresh start for the club and, hopefully, that means for me too. I was proud to come here and now I am even prouder.

"I signed for three years and it's a sad day for everyone if, after a bad start, people think the best solution is to wave a magic wand and look for someone else.

"But the prospect of having new owners doesn't greatly concern me because I knew the previous ones were not popular.

"John called me this week and said he was very much looking forward to working with me and the other people here - but there was no talk of my situation."

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 16, 2010, 11:26:42 AM
From: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/10/16/fresh-start-can-give-liverpool-fc-a-head-start-says-roy-hodgson-100252-27482107/2/ (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/10/16/fresh-start-can-give-liverpool-fc-a-head-start-says-roy-hodgson-100252-27482107/2/)

“Unfortunately in most games – Arsenal being the exception – we have gone goals behind and had to catch up,” he explained. “We have ended up taking risks and thrown players forward. It would be nice one day to have something to defend rather than something to catch up on.

That sort of sums Roy's philosophy up perfectly. In his previous life, at his previous clubs/countries, that would have been an understandable outlook.


What would be even nicer was to have a lead and then build on it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 16, 2010, 12:31:36 PM
true, Juan and Tes.

I am not a fan of changing managers often - and certainly not mid-season.

BUT, Roy (despite being one of life's gentlemen) just isn't up to the task IMHO.

To compete at the very top, we need top personnel......and that includes in the boardroom, in the dugout and on the pitch. 

Europe's finest include: Carlo Ancelotti, Guus Hiddink, Jose Mourinho, and Rafa Benitez.

The one that may be relatively available at present is Guus Hiddinlk.....he is Turkey's manager.  But he is 64 years old in a few weeks
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 16, 2010, 09:07:38 PM
I'm with the dude and thoroughly suspicious of RH, in my opinion the Liverpool manager should have as his number 1 ambition to win the league.....now I got to ask myself the question do I see Roy Hodgson doing that?....tbh his track record suggests that he's capable of doing certain things but, there's nothing there to suggest that he can win the Premiership??

So if in a million years I can't see him doing that then wtf is he doing as the Liverpool manager?? Anyway, I'm not suggesting he win the league this season, but what I expected was for him to have come in and DONE SOMETHING.....Currently we are in the relegation zone (8 points off the top 4) and playing absolute sh*te.

There is this idea about lowering expectations among the fans that he speaks of........i'm sorry but lowering expectations among Liverpool fans is talking about finishing 2nd in the league....that's the job (it's brutal, he has my sympathies, but that's the job!!)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 08:33:37 AM
It will be a sad day for football if I'm sacked:  As he meets Liverpool’s new owner, Roy Hodgson admits that he fears for his future

Roy Hodgson has been in football management long enough to appreciate the fragility of his profession.

So when he heard Liverpool's new American owner John W Henry talk reassuringly yesterday of his support for the manager, he could have been forgiven for thinking that history is still against him.

For the reality is that few football managers - Manchester United's Sir Alex Ferguson being the exception - ever survive a change of club ownership

And with Liverpool languishing in the bottom three of the Premier League, 63-yearold Hodgson knows the reality is that he is on trial for his Anfield future.

When he sends his team out for a Merseyside derby of huge significance at Everton today, it will be only his eighth Premier League game in charge of since he was introduced as the successor to Rafa Benitez.

Lose and Hodgson will surely feel the fates are moving against him. 'I think it would be a sad day for football and a very sad day for Liverpool Football club if, after eight games, someone the pomp and circumstance that greeted my arrival was sacked,' said Hodgson.

'Liverpool spent a lot of money paying compensation to Fulham to bring me here. I was feted as one of the best managers around. If eight games into the season people start saying that I'm no good at all and I have to go, that would be a sad day for me and for the club

'That kind of thing isn't Liverpool's style. Liverpool down the years have always been the opposite of that. This was the club that gave Bill Shankly 15 years to build the club and then spent the next 10 years trying to ensure that the people who worked under Shankly carried his work on. I find speculation about my future insulting to both me and the club.'

Liverpool's new owners were in no mood yesterday to heap any more pressure on their manager. Henry and Tom Werner, a Hollywood mogul who is chairman of New England Sports Ventures, lunched with Hodgson and his players when they introduced themselves at the club's Melwood training ground.

Afterwards Henry, whose ownership of the Boston Red Sox revitalised the fallen giants of American baseball, said they had assured Hodgson his position was secure

But while the Red Sox racked up two World Series in three years following NESV's takeover at Fenway Park, they did so only after the team manager had been sacked within weeks of the new owners' arrival in 2001.

Henry said yesterday: 'We talked to the players today and we talked to Roy. I think our message was simple: We're here to support you and encourage you. Our feeling is we're here to stabilise and to answer questions that might be lingering; to just come in and have the same attitude we had in Boston, which is to be smart managers and to listen.

'We had lunch with a few of them. Steven Gerrard sat next to us and he said he was happy that there was leadership here and we wanted to reassure him we would be doing what we could to improve the situation

'They seem to be optimistic. There's a great morale in the club, it's very positive. We are very encouraged. I think we have done everything we can to assure Roy that we are not here to make changes.

'We are here to build. At Boston we had a manager and a general manager in a dysfunctional situation. That is not the case here.'

Liverpool under Hodgson may not have reached the dysfunctional stage but it is undeniable that with 15 World Cup players in his squad, the manager's results have been below standard.

Of course, if Liverpool beat their old enemy today and follow up with European success in Napoli on Thursday and a triumphant return to Anfield against Blackburn next Sunday, even Hodgson's sharpest critic on the Kop might begin to turn.

Hodgson has experienced most things in football. He has even come across NESV before when they visited Fulham to look at a commercial tie-up between that club and the Boston Red Sox.

It is their interest in Arsenal, however, that encourages Hodgson most. He has always seen himself as an Arsene Wenger-style team builder rather than working on the Chelsea or Manchester City model of splashing the cash.

With Henry unlikely to break the British transfer record, that might be just as well.

Hodgson said: 'The good thing for me is that the new owners are logical people. I am told they have been to Arsenal to see how things are done and there is no doubt they are a fantastic role model as a club.

'Arsene has been given the time and used it wisely and recruited very wisely. He doesn't go to the owner and say, "I want you to be in hock for £150million".

'I don't want people to think Hodgson has no ambition. But Wenger tries to spend wisely the money the club earns. And there is no doubt being the type of coach I am, that is what I want to do as well.

'There are a lot of fans out there who believe everything was better in the past and we can get back to the old days with a flick of the fingers.

'But there is a very large body who realise we've been going in the wrong direction, it needed to be stopped and now it needs to start moving in the right direction.

'That's what I will be trying to do all the time they want me here.'

Hodgson is looking forward to a future where there will be more talk about signing new players than stopping existing ones from leaving.

He admits the pressure of being asked every week whether Fernando Torres is going to stay has even affected his own ability to see the big picture.

'I have to remind myself not to immerse myself in the subject. I start looking through a microscope at miniscule particles of dust trying to see if there is an atom there. Maybe it is just a bit of dust.'

'The cry has gone up, "What has happened to Fernando Torres?" Maybe nothing has - maybe it's just that he is not playing very well and is unhappy about it.

'We are talking football matches here, not rocket science. People make mistakes. Last season Dimitar Berbatov was regarded by fans as not playing well. Now he is.'

He talks a lot of sense does Roy. But he knows it's still no guarantee of the owners keeping him in the long term. The trial starts now.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1321198/After-meeting-John-W-Henry-Liverppol-boss-Roy-Hodgson-admits-fears-future.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1321198/After-meeting-John-W-Henry-Liverppol-boss-Roy-Hodgson-admits-fears-future.html)







Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
Liverpool down the years have always been the opposite of that. This was the club that gave Bill Shankly 15 years to build the club and then spent the next 10 years trying to ensure that the people who worked under Shankly carried his work on. I find speculation about my future insulting to both me and the club.'

Dear Woy,  rather than talk about how previous Liverpool regime's have supported their manager through good times and bad, would it not be better to concentrate your efforts on how to get our team out of its current predicament?  Actions speak louder than words, John 'Dubyer' Henry already made that very clear last Friday!

One final point, please don't speak about what Shankly did.  You do yourself no favours imho.  As above, let your actions speak for themselves.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 17, 2010, 09:18:40 AM
'I think it would be a sad day for football and a very sad day for Liverpool Football club if, after eight games, someone the pomp and circumstance that greeted my arrival was sacked,' said Hodgson. 'Liverpool spent a lot of money paying compensation to Fulham to bring me here. I was feted as one of the best managers around. If eight games into the season people start saying that I'm no good at all and I have to go, that would be a sad day for me and for the club.'


No, the saddest part is that someone, with all due respect, thought you were worth the outlay of around £8M that it took to swap Rafa Benitez for you.

He's already become very self defensive and feels the need to react to the written media. Never a good sign that someone is handling the pressure.

We need to start playing our way out of this mess and not defending.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 17, 2010, 09:33:22 AM
From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/17/liverpool-fans-football

"I lost five of my first six matches at Fulham. Maybe there were [lower] expectations but I remember feeling fairly depressed and suicidal. I thought Fulham were a big club."

Every time he comes out with this sort of thing makes it a bit more worrying that he really doesn't 'get it'.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 17, 2010, 11:43:04 AM
From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/17/liverpool-fans-football

"I lost five of my first six matches at Fulham. Maybe there were [lower] expectations but I remember feeling fairly depressed and suicidal. I thought Fulham were a big club."

Every time he comes out with this sort of thing makes it a bit more worrying that he really doesn't 'get it'.

The erratic nature of his comments suggest to me that hes out of his depth. Before his arrival here I would have put Roy as being a calm collected manager that didnt rise to the media or collapse under pressure but some of the stuff he is coming out with now is nonsensical.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 17, 2010, 12:09:35 PM
It will be a sad day for football if I'm sacked:  As he meets Liverpool’s new owner, Roy Hodgson admits that he fears for his future

It is their interest in a*senal, however, that encourages Hodgson most. He has always seen himself as an a*sene Wenger-style team builder rather than working on the Chelsea or Manchester City model of splashing the cash.

With Henry unlikely to break the British transfer record, that might be just as well.

Hodgson said: 'The good thing for me is that the new owners are logical people. I am told they have been to a*senal to see how things are done and there is no doubt they are a fantastic role model as a club.

'a*sene has been given the time and used it wisely and recruited very wisely. He doesn't go to the owner and say, "I want you to be in hock for £150million".

'I don't want people to think Hodgson has no ambition. But Wenger tries to spend wisely the money the club earns. And there is no doubt being the type of coach I am, that is what I want to do as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1321198/After-meeting-John-W-Henry-Liverppol-boss-Roy-Hodgson-admits-fears-future.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1321198/After-meeting-John-W-Henry-Liverppol-boss-Roy-Hodgson-admits-fears-future.html)

Again Im not sure why Roy is comparing the way he likes to build a team to the way Wenger does. Its nonsensical. Wenger has not had much cash over the last few years which is true but there have been times when Wenger had the money to buy players, needed to buy players but didnt want to spend the money. Thats one of the reasons they havent won anything in the last number of years and personally I think its one of Wengers flaws. Its like the goal keeping situation at arsenal Wenger refuses to believe theres a problem but there clearly is.

The second reason I'm baffled by Roys comparison to Arsenal and Wenger is that even without money Wenger has a special ability to make any team and player play. I wouldnt go as far as to say Wenger doesnt need money but he would do alot better than other managers would without it. Roy doesnt have the ability to make a team play total football or at least I have never seen him display that ability previously at a club so automatically I would argue that hes more reliant on cash than Wenger. Put it this way do you think we would be languishing in 18th position if AW was in charge. I doubt it.

A club like Liverpool deserves a manager with the calibre of Ferguson, Wenger, Mourihno, Ancellotti. Unfortunately Roy doesnt not fit the bill.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 02:04:30 PM
So Torres is playing against the Toffee's.  I'm sorry but a derby to bring back a player coming back from injury?  Do me a favour!  Looks more like a desparation move rather than a tactical one.

Just hearing on 5 Live that Torres's head is down and is not in the game......
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 02:16:37 PM
Cahil scores, 1 nil to the Toffee's. 

Guess we'll be hearing stories from Woy about how fungus face was at the brink of losing his job etc etc etc.....
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 17, 2010, 02:45:43 PM
Arteta scores......2-0
 
Woy's game is almost up.
 
 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 17, 2010, 03:33:36 PM
Hodgson has to go. We are not improving at all. Players do not break forward when we have the ball. Passes to men stood still or with their backs to goal. No urgency at all. At at times our most forward player was Carragher on the RW. Why didn't Kelly get a chance?

I don't know what your plan is Roy. Your tactics are abysmal. I wouldn't mind if you changed things sometime but you're stuck in a rut with no Plan B. No Plan A either!

At least the new owners will have seen the extent of our problems. Time for CP to start looking for a new manager tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 17, 2010, 03:37:15 PM
ah yes, the english media demanded the head of that pesky no-good foreigner, rafa benitez.  You must remember rafa, beardy bloke, broken english, took the club to 2 European Cup finals in 5 years, and all on a shoestring budget.
 
bring in that english god, roy hodgson, the media hacks all demanded in unison. 
 
like always happens, the media are shown to know feck all about anything.
 
they need reminding.
 
 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: wittsy on October 17, 2010, 04:00:32 PM
I'd give Roy up till next weekend and if still no joy then ship him out, doesn't he have a clause to shift him within a set time after the new owners come in or something ???

He doesn't seem to have a vision or plan for the team and has no ability to charge the players up, he just sits there watching not acting.  I like the guy but not losing and winning are two different things and he tries to do the wrong one.

Jas
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 17, 2010, 04:10:15 PM
Quote from post-match interview... "I think we can consider ourselves unlucky."  >:(

No Roy, we weren't unlucky. We never even came close to scoring until the 92nd minute and Everton, with a bit more composure, could have scored 2 more. We were never at the races. We only had so much possession towards the end because Everton sat back and defended comfortably.

Watching Blackpool v Man City now is as diffferent to our play as chalk and cheese. And I'm talking about Blackpool, not City!!  >:(
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Redman on October 17, 2010, 04:21:47 PM
ah yes, the english media demanded the head of that pesky no-good foreigner, rafa benitez.  You must remember rafa, beardy bloke, broken english, took the club to 2 European Cup finals in 5 years, and all on a shoestring budget.
 
bring in that english god, roy hodgson, the media hacks all demanded in unison. 
 
like always happens, the media are shown to know feck all about anything.
 
they need reminding.

Spot on Dude, where are the fools that were screaming for Rafa's head at the end of last season? Disappeared up their own backsides by the look of it. Pope Pumparse now thinks that Roys appointment is inspired but that's only because he doesn't want to appear a hypocrite when screaming for Rafa to be sacked. We are in a very dire situation right now and I can see us losing 2 of the 3 up and coming matches. Folks were saying that we were 1 win off 4th place, well we're not now. I can see us being relegated this season. How many folk would have thought ManU would be relagated in the 70's? No club is too big to go down. At least Rafa had a game plan, Roy's like a fecking deer caught in the headlights, he hasn't got a clue and man am I pissed  >:(  >:(  >:(

Redman

p.s Did you or anyone else hear that fat f**kwit on SSN after the final whistle, Roy needs time, he's inherited Rafa's crap squad, Rafa's spent all the money etc etc the usual bile, I wanted to punch him in his know nothing fat face
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 17, 2010, 06:01:04 PM
exactly, redman.........they all said man utd couldn't go down in 74......and years later, forest were also supposedly too good to be relegated.
 
it the club doesn't take action I fear we will be fighting a relegation battle.
 
our defence is no good........and our midfield is a joke (based around a fictional superman).  Torres is a constant sick-note and we have no backup.
 
bring in guus hiddink.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 17, 2010, 06:03:36 PM
BTW here is a lovely quality version of that man utd relegation game.
 
great memories of brian moore, gerald sinstadt and the big match era.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjMa9Qp1ses&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjMa9Qp1ses&feature=related)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: buck on October 17, 2010, 06:43:27 PM
I never thought that Roy was up for the job, I wish I wasn't proved right.  I would give Kenny the job, he may have been out of the game for a number of years but I am sure he could do a far better job than the current manager we have.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 17, 2010, 06:53:24 PM
I think Roy's had a very tough start to his Anfield career. However, calling for his head after 8 games is a real shame for any person claiming to be a Liverpool fan. I have no doubt in my mind Roy's paying the price for the downfall that startet under Rafa during his last 3 seasons where the players by each game lost confidence and autonomy. The fact remain Roy only got 7 days with the full squad to prepare for the new season. That's not a lot of time to get your ideas through. Add to this the gelling of new players, the ownership turmoil and it was plain to see no manager around would turn things around in a season, let alone 8 games. Add to all this the fixture list is the toughest I've seen us face for as long as I can remember.

I don't think we're half as bad as people are making out, Arsenal needed a once every two year error from Reina to get a point, City needed the post and the double save of the season to keep us out of the game, United depended on the goal of Berba's career to win, and against Blackpool we were denied penos Sunderland was awarded the weekend before. True, we're not clicking going forward and we do not create enough cleaar cut chances. But I really really think we've been extremly punished for mistakes made although we lack the firepower or creativity to come back once a mistake is made. That's a weakness, no denying that.

I think we'll slowly start to play better and win games. Whether it'll be enough to  towin 4th I don't know but I wouldn't dare dreaming of writing us off just yet. I probably am one of the very few that genuinely believe ROy's the right man for us. That doesn't mean I think he'll win us no. 19, it means I think he's the right man to help this club find the identity needed to win it and help stabilise the club after the dreadful management of Rafa and GH.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on October 17, 2010, 07:42:03 PM
Roy might impress the media, but that doesn't a football team make, so far (apart from the standard liege game) we have seen no improvement from a man who would get the best of players...he's said a lot about giving everyone a fair shake of the dice...but doesn't act on it...

with the team we had today there's no point in defending anyway cos we can't...we were much better when we attacked today....ffs roy play babel...try pacheco...you might as well gamble cos if you dont you;re gone...
Lucas, maxi and cole were pretty woeful, and thats our midfield!

i thought roy would have until xmas...but we keep playing like that and torres will be so disillusioned that he'll be gone...he's getting no support...no playmaker in midfield...gawd its awful...we might have the possession, we might have the passing but they have to move forward as well...

the next 5 games are crucial ...2 games against Napoli who are currently 4th in serie a, blackburn, bolton and chelsea...with no improvement in the team then Roy might be gone on the day of the Chelsea game...

Nerve succeeds, Roy...

So who to have as a replacement? at least the ownership crisis is dealt with...now it's only football..


bring in guus hiddink.


..he didnt want the job in the summer with the 2 yankee swindlers because anyone with vague insight could see that it was a no go...Turkey has lost 2 games in succession now so that might add impetus to the idea...

OR....Pellegrini..

i'd be happy with either...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: wittsy on October 17, 2010, 07:50:03 PM
I think Roy's had a very tough start to his Anfield career. However, calling for his head after 8 games is a real shame for any person claiming to be a Liverpool fan. I have no doubt in my mind Roy's paying the price for the downfall that startet under Rafa during his last 3 seasons where the players by each game lost confidence and autonomy. The fact remain Roy only got 7 days with the full squad to prepare for the new season. That's not a lot of time to get your ideas through. Add to this the gelling of new players, the ownership turmoil and it was plain to see no manager around would turn things around in a season, let alone 8 games. Add to all this the fixture list is the toughest I've seen us face for as long as I can remember.

I don't think we're half as bad as people are making out, a*senal needed a once every two year error from Reina to get a point, City needed the post and the double save of the season to keep us out of the game, United depended on the goal of Berba's career to win, and against Blackpool we were denied penos Sunderland was awarded the weekend before. True, we're not clicking going forward and we do not create enough cleaar cut chances. But I really really think we've been extremly punished for mistakes made although we lack the firepower or creativity to come back once a mistake is made. That's a weakness, no denying that.

I think we'll slowly start to play better and win games. Whether it'll be enough to  towin 4th I don't know but I wouldn't dare dreaming of writing us off just yet. I probably am one of the very few that genuinely believe ROy's the right man for us. That doesn't mean I think he'll win us no. 19, it means I think he's the right man to help this club find the identity needed to win it and help stabilise the club after the dreadful management of Rafa and GH.

I could agree with what your saying if we were say 13th - 14th and you could see a plan or style forming but there's nothing. The problem is if we stay at the bottom much longer and our players don't improve they'll start to believe that they're going down and hoping for them to lift their heads may come too late. Roy is panicing and seems out of depth, you can see this by the drivle he's started saying to the media.

JMHO Jas
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 17, 2010, 08:13:14 PM
Hodgson's CV and pedigree offered no evidence that he was equipped for this job. Still the 'Little Englanders' in the media fell for his 'achievements' whilst forgetting the most important aspect, context.

Do we give him another 5 games and risk losing out on a further 15 points or do we do the right thing now?

Calling for something that isn't working to be changed is not being disloyal. It's looking at the bigger picture and the needs of the club.

The manager may not have the best group of players in the league but he has a group good enough to at least be in touch with fourth place. That's fourth from the top, not the bottom.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 09:06:36 PM
Hodgson's CV and pedigree offered no evidence that he was equipped for this job. Still the 'Little Englanders' in the media fell for his 'achievements' whilst forgetting the most important aspect, context.

Do we give him another 5 games and risk losing out on a further 15 points or do we do the right thing now?

Calling for something that isn't working to be changed is not being disloyal. It's looking at the bigger picture and the needs of the club.

The manager may not have the best group of players in the league but he has a group good enough to at least be in touch with fourth place. That's fourth from the top, not the bottom.

Abso 'effin' lutely Tes. 

I know we don't have the best of squads as compared to the Man U's/Chelsea/Arsenal of this world but feck me, the relegation zone!  I was not happy with his appointment in the first place and I'm certainly not going to be changing my mind regardless of whether he gets us out of this hole or not.

Woy's inept interview after the Man U game summed it all up for me.  There was Fungus moaning about Torres and Woy said nothing to defend him/the club.  He does'nt get what it means to be a Liverpool manager.  Wake up Woy your not at.....

1971–1972    Maidstone United Assistant Coach
1976            Carshalton Athletic
1976–1980    Halmstad
1980–1982    Bristol City
1983–1985    Örebro
1985–1990    Malmö FF
1990–1992    Neuchâtel Xamax
1992–1995    Switzerland
1995–1997    Internazionale
1997–1998    Blackburn Rovers
1999            Internazionale
1999–2000    Grasshopper
2000–2001    Copenhagen
2001            Udinese
2002–2004    United Arab Emirates
2004–2005    Viking
2006–2007    Finland
2007–2010    Fulham

...anymore.  This is Liverpool FC. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 09:10:05 PM
Hodgson refuses to panic


Roy Hodgson admitted after the defeat to Everton that the only way to shake off the term 'crisis' was to start winning games.

The ownership of Liverpool was finally resolved this week when New England Sports Ventures seized control from Tom Hicks and George Gillett, but there are still concerns on the pitch following a poor run.

The Reds remain in the relegation zone after going down 2-0 to Merseyside rivals Everton at Goodison Park, with Tim Cahill and Mikel Arteta scoring the decisive goals.

Hodgson is refusing to panic and saw signs of encouragement in Sunday's clash, but accepts that difficult questions will continue to be asked until results improve.

He told Sky Sports: "I don't think it is a crisis, I thought the way we played today was not the level of a team in the bottom three.

"On the other hand it is six points from eight games and that is a very poor return.

"We need to start winning to climb the table and until we do the word 'crisis' will continue to be bandied around."

The new owners were in attendance at Everton, having already given their backing to Hodgson as the right man to turn around the situation.

"It is always nice to get a vote of confidence," said Hodgson.

"Whenever you lose a couple of games in a row these days your position is going to be questioned, so the new owners making it clear they thought I was the right man to do the job, you are always very happy to hear that."

He added with a smile: "Whether that has changed after today I don't know."
Torres

Reflecting on the match itself, Hodgson was satisfied with the effort of his players despite the disappointing scoreline.

He said: "We fell behind to a deflected block which fell kindly for Cahill so

I thought at half-time we were a bit unlucky to be a goal down because we had got back into the game well.

"In the second half we did everything the team could possibly do, we played well, created chances, we limited them to very few and put them on the back foot."

Star striker Fernando Torres again drew a blank but Hodgson believes he is just low on confidence rather than suffering from a physical problem.

"I don't think he is physically unfit, I think he showed that today, he did plenty of work and we don't have any injury problems with him," said Hodgson.

"He got battered during the World Cup and mentally he is probably a bit low and he needs a goal or two to get it back. Certainly today I would have no qualms about his performance."


http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6450027,00.html (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6450027,00.html)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 09:14:58 PM
"It is always nice to get a vote of confidence," said Hodgson.

"Whenever you lose a couple of games in a row these days your position is going to be questioned, so the new owners making it clear they thought I was the right man to do the job, you are always very happy to hear that."

 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

I think the smiley's say it all!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 17, 2010, 09:21:18 PM
Fair result, no complaints.....I think the standout moment of the game for me was when Lucas passed it to Maxi who then laid it off to Carragher bombing up the right wing  :'(....Another unconvincing performance by RH in the post-match interview.....tbh even though it could be argued that he was at fault for both goals I thought Meireles was good today.....Ideally at some point Torres will start banging them in again....TIGHTEN UP THE DEFENCE....I'll give him another few games to get it right.....But aside from the obvious there still needs to be a few really astute football decisions made in order to stop the rot.... ::)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 09:28:52 PM
Dear Woy,

Having just listened to your post match analysis on Sky Sports you mention that the performance of the team today was good but were unlucky to come away with nothing.

Here is a quote from Shankly, read it, break it down into smaller words.....do whatever, but please, please, please understand it.

“If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing.”

YNWA
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 17, 2010, 10:21:18 PM
Dear Woy,

Having just listened to your post match analysis on Sky Sports you mention that the performance of the team today was good but were unlucky to come away with nothing.

Here is a quote from Shankly, read it, break it down into smaller words.....do whatever, but please, please, please understand it.

“If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing.”

YNWA

"............but, but when I was at Fulham................."
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 17, 2010, 10:38:32 PM
Turkey have no games until 29 March 2011. Ring Hiddink / Turkish FA tomorrow morning and see how he/they feel. The decline has to be stopped before the players lose all confidence. It's like being in quicksand. The more you struggle the faster you get sucked down.

The board must be decisive. Jim B is also calling time on Roy. In 45 years of supporting Liverpool I've never known such a desperate time.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 11:23:37 PM
Roy Hodgson hails best Liverpool performance of the season (after crushing derby defeat in front of new owners)

Roy Hodgson left himself open to ridicule by describing Liverpool's dispiriting 2-0 derby defeat to Everton at Goodison Park as 'our best performance of the season'.

The former Fulham boss delivered his bizarre claim after making the worst start to a Liverpool managerial career - one win and three draws from eight games - since George Patterson in 1928.

Liverpool's new American owners John W Henry and Tom Werner watched from the stands after originally saying they would wait for a home match.

But only goal difference keeps them above bottom club West Ham in the Barclays Premier League.

Hodgson insisted: 'That was as good as we have played all season, and I have no qualms with the performance whatsoever. I only hope fair-minded people will see it the same way.

'It's just unfortunate that such a good game of football, a real credit to the Premier League, will revolve round the fact that Liverpool did not win.

'It was a sterling effort by the players, especially after Everton's second goal went in. Pressure builds up, of course, but we will cope with that.'

Liverpool have endured their worst start to a season since 1953-54, when they were relegated, and they remain rooted at the lower reaches of the table.

Hodgson, asked if the top four was out of reach, added: 'There are 30 games to go, 90 points to play for, so we'd have to start doing something special I suppose.

'But I don't know I would write that off necessarily.

'What it would take is a really good run on the spin but I thought there were signs in the game today that the quality of football was there.

'Who knows, we could get those four or five wins on the spin - that is what it is going to take.'

Liverpool have now not won in six matches in all competitions and Hodgson admitted, with only one league victory this season, the pressure was mounting.

'We have taken six points from eight games and every game we don't win the pressure builds even more and that will affect people's confidence in the long run,' he said.

'The pressure mounts but I'm not trying to use that as an excuse.'

Liverpool were watched by new owner Henry, whose New England Sports Ventures completed a £300million buy-out this week.

Unfortunately the players could not match the performance of their legal team, who successfully prevented former owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett blocking the sale.

'The dream was we would come here on the back of new owners and win the game but there is no point in attempting to analyse dreams,' Hodgson said.

'This would have been the ideal opportunity to turn things around on the back of the positive entry of the new owners and to get a result here would have been Utopia.'

Everton manager David Moyes was delighted just to end a run of three successive league derby defeats.

'The smile's not come off my face. It's been a long time. I'm really disappointed I've not been able to win more derbies,' he said.

'We play against a really good football club but it's not been because of a lack of effort.

'In the past we've probably lacked the quality to match Liverpool. I don't think we do now.

'We've got players of real quality who could play for the big clubs.

'Whoever scored the first goal was going to be really important and I think we always looked more likely in the first 20-25 minutes.

'I was delighted to get in front because both teams have not been scoring that freely.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1321329/Roy-Hodgson-Everton-defeat-best-Ive-seen-Liverpool-season.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1321329/Roy-Hodgson-Everton-defeat-best-Ive-seen-Liverpool-season.html)


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 17, 2010, 11:28:41 PM
Normally you get these self preserving, desperate statements at the end of a manager's reign (when he knows the end is nigh).

Royston, do the honourable thing.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 11:37:58 PM
'our best performance of the season'.

Mind if have a 'toke' on whatever your smoking Woy?

Hodgson insisted: 'That was as good as we have played all season, and I have no qualms with the performance whatsoever. I only hope fair-minded people will see it the same way.

Hmmm, fair-minded people.  Let me ebay that......

'It's just unfortunate that such a good game of football, a real credit to the Premier League, will revolve round the fact that Liverpool did not win.

Guy's your a credit to the PL, no really. 

'It was a sterling effort by the players, especially after Everton's second goal went in. Pressure builds up, of course, but we will cope with that.'

Can't knock the players for effort hey Woy.  Just give em' hug.......go on, you know you want to  ;D

'There are 30 games to go, 90 points to play for, so we'd have to start doing something special I suppose.

Yeah, feckit.....suppose so.....YAWN  ::) ::) ::)






Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 11:41:14 PM
I don't usually post this much in a day but my blood is boiling and I want blood  :P
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 11:42:07 PM
Oh sod it.......so close....just one more post needed  :o
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 17, 2010, 11:43:32 PM
Yippee 400 hundred big one's baby.....

Outta here.....night all  :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 18, 2010, 12:10:34 AM
Congrats 'Snarler'.  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 18, 2010, 12:49:18 AM
That doesn't mean I think he'll win us no. 19, it means I think he's the right man to help this club find the identity needed to win it and help stabilise the club after the dreadful management of Rafa and GH.

Martinmax I think its noble and all to be able to say you have faith in the manager after the horrendous start to the season we have had and I have always been an advocate for giving a manager time. In recent years from Evans to Houllier and right through to Rafa I supported each of them until the end. But looking for Roy to be replaced is not something I apologise for. As Paul Tomkins said in a recent article he didnt want Roy to get the job in the first place so why should he give him his support with everything thats gone on up to now.

I also think its noble your are defending some of the matches we've played but I'm afraid we didnt lose to the likes of Man City because of one Joe Hart save, we lost because we got battered and deserved to lose. We were tactically and technically played off the park. I dont necessarily want Roy gone because we sit 19th in the league. Were we 19th playing well and losing games through dodgy penalties or crazy red cards I could accept. But we arent playing well and we arent showing any signs of it. The players look clueless, the tactics look clueless, the manager looks clueless. The timing of his substitutions is baffling. Worst of all none of these things are getting any better.  The hope was with the takeover complete we would see a rejuvenated side free from the run off of board room bashing but that unfortunately proved not to be. Roy is a true gent and I dont want to start seeing personal abuse toward him from any section of our fans. However for me Ive seen enough to think that he doesnt cut the mustard for a top club like Liverpool and he doesnt have a single achievement in his Cv that would persuade me otherwise.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 18, 2010, 10:45:49 AM
Fair play Juan,
We've been out-classed, out-thought and out-fought, doesn't matter the opposition! Roy promised not to bullshit us in press conferences and then we get yesterdays (not the first time) prozac -induced bullshit! Basically, things may get better (or they may not) but why we are second from bottom appears to be anyone's guess and how exactly we're going to get out of appears again to be anyone's guess.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 18, 2010, 11:30:26 AM
Juan,  I highly appreciate your civlized tone although I do not agree with your reasoning (tho referring to the embarrassing Tomkins won't do you no favors in my eyes). This is not directed towards you Juan, but surely this is the darkest moment for LFC-supporters I've ever witnessed. Time and again under Rafa and GH we went through spells like this yet people called you everything there's a word for under the sun for criticising those managers for not being able to deliver more and better after years and millions spent. Jesus H fornicating Christ, we're 8 games into the man's career. Like Hansen correctly said today Roy inhereted a squad of mediocrity Rafa had done his best to drain of any mental strength during his last 3 seasons. He got what, 7 days with the entire squad before the season started. Then 2 international breaks where he weren't allowed to work the squad with his ideas makes which makes up almost  month. Then an extremly difficult fixture list. I'm not making up excuses but people really need to take a hard look at themselves and their "analysis" of the situation - if that's what they want to call it.

I think this "debate" on Hodgson has become a force on it's own, so to speak. I remember a year ago when Rafa lost 4, or was it 5, on the trot. Yet he continued with his tinkering, restraining of players, shifting line-up just when its clear his original gameplan was slowly coming in to furuition. It was clear he had lost it.  For 6 seaons Rafa was allowed to field weakend sides in the PL to focus on the CL without recieving critic, duringhis 6 years at charge he only managed to sign  handfu of quality player. Roy doesn't manage to turn thigs around in a fornicating afternoon and that's enough to be belittled and ridiculed. I'm not Roy's man on these boards but I feel truly ashamed at how people are reacting to what is, admittedly, a poor start to the season.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 18, 2010, 02:05:04 PM
I'm not Roy's man on these boards but I feel truly ashamed at how people are reacting to what is, admittedly, a poor start to the season.

I have personally never called for the managers head, especially when just into their reign, and I'm pretty sure the majority of fans and people on this board are the same. 

There is no reason to feel ashamed at how people are reacting to this.  Woy is out of his depth.  There really is no other way to describe it.  The sooner we can get a manager in with proven track record the better.  If we don't do something soon then I'm afraid regardless of the recent takeover our stars or maybe that's star will leave.

ps. Welcome to the board Martin  :)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 18, 2010, 03:57:42 PM
The difference is that Hodgson didn't have the pedigree and big club experience. His teams were always there to make up the numbers. Asking for a mistake to be rectified is common sense, not embarrassing.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 18, 2010, 04:06:38 PM
rafa got us to 2 CL finals in 5 seasons.  Despite being financially overpowered by chelsea and man utd, rafa usually qualified easily each season for the CL.

I am pretty ashamed that people like you, martin, aren't giving him the respect he deserves.

like Hicks, you make up rubbish that rafa had a fortune to spend.......you claim that he bought badly.

on the contrary, rafa had limited funds and had to cut his cloth accordingly.

I am mystified as to why you slag Rafa, and are fully behind Roy.

Rafa has his faults - but he is one of europe's finest managers........Roy on the otherhand has nothing on his CV that would suggest greatness.



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: wittsy on October 18, 2010, 04:50:59 PM
There's a reason why Rafa, GH, etc weren't in so much trouble, thats because they had a plan and they showed that they were trying to fix the problem. Rafa had already proven he knew what he was doing as had GH etc, Roy has never proven anything apart from being an average manager. You can give faith and backing to people who show it will be rewarded.

Forget goal differense... we are joint last. We are showing signs of collapse and are looking like the worst team in the league. The manager is looking vacant and talking bum vomit to the media and the team is begging for guidance....... Roy will not give us that.

I like Roy but would only give him 2 more league games, otherwise we may be stuck at the bottom until it's too late to get out..

JMHO

Jas
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: subsy on October 18, 2010, 05:26:41 PM
Spot on wittsy...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 18, 2010, 06:33:57 PM
I don't buy into the "he got us to 2 CL finals" argument as a means of declaring Roy unfit to manage Liverpool. That's just not an honest way of arguing no matter how you look at it. From day one Rafa had his sights set on the CL. Not once during his 6 years in charge were PL his top priority. Also, throughout his reign at Anfield he was more afraid of losing a game than not winning it. He never truly took on board what it takes to challenge for the PL. You'll now SCREAM at me and point to the 2008/09 season. I'm not even gonna bother explaining how that season alone showed his total failure as PL manager, that ManU time and again handed us the title only for us to draw at home against the likes of Fulham and West Ham and Hull away or lose to a Boro side destined for relegation.  The truth of the matter is, and as Fergie correctly foresaw, we played well and utterly above our genuine level that season. I'd go as far as saying with Moyes we'd walked the title that season.

But no, he had 2 great runs in the CL. Lets forget he during his 6 years and tens and tens of millions spent on crap players failed massively to instill that mentality that saw us go on winning streaks regurarly. We were as inconsistent his final season as we were during his first. We looked as dire and out of ideas in his final season we did during his first. And we were further away from the title positionwise in his final season than we were in his first season. True, he took us to 2 CL finals, but as far as the league goes I'm sorry to have to say he was a f***ing disaster apart from a 3 month spell in the spring of 2009.

And I'm not even gonna mention GH's infamous 14 games without a win streak after having (ALSO) spent years and 10's of millions on crap (worst since the battle of Hastings, God damn). And Roy is called into question after 8 games. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Both GH and Rafa were allowed more than enough time to prove their ineptitude as PL managers, why can't Roy be given at least a quarter of that time? Because you lot are disappointed wiser men than you realised rafa was slowly dragging this club into dismay? He's gone and he'll never come back, thank God.

It's incredible really people do not see the damage done to this club for over a decade by GH and Rafa. Even more incredible is the fact people somehow think it'll be fixed inside 8 games with 2 international breaks, new manager, players and the hardest fixture list since John Holmes took up his acting career.

Again, I do not think Roy will ever win us the title. But then again, the title is at least 3-4 years away even if God himself would descend with Shanks and Sir Bob to his assistance. But I am confindent that Roy, if given time, will leave a foundation for a coming manager to benefit from. Of that I am sure. I just think the criticism is so without nuances, fairness or validity and it that respect I am ashamed to read some of the stuff on here and elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 18, 2010, 06:41:54 PM
on the contrary, rafa had limited funds and had to cut his cloth accordingly.

Like the nearly 40 millions he spent on an injury prone and unproven Italian and a right-back when the impressive Ngog and Voronin were our back ups to Torres? Not even Fergie would get that much to spend on such poor players. He outspent Fergie big big time his last 3 years in charge. But just like GH he had a thing for phony maths.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 18, 2010, 06:44:36 PM
Quote from: Martinmarx on Today at 06:33:57 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg21376#msg21376)  <blockquote>I do not think Roy will ever win us the title.

But I am confident that Roy, if given time, will leave a foundation for a coming manager to benefit from. Of that I am sure. </blockquote>
 
 
so you cr.ap all over rafa and houllier, despite the trophies they won at Liverpool...........and laud Roy, despite admitting that you don't foresee Roy ever bringing the title to Anfield.

Bizarely, despite not imagining Roy ever winning the title for us, you claim that the manager after Roy will benefit from his tenure.

I am sorta pretty confused at your reasoning.

TBH  I am starting to wonder if you are a troll.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 18, 2010, 06:48:51 PM
  Quote from: Martinmarx on Today at 06:41:54 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg21377#msg21377)  <blockquote>Like the nearly 40 millions he spent on an injury prone and unproven Italian and a right-back when the impressive Ngog and Voronin were our back ups to Torres? Not even Fergie would get that much to spend on such poor players. </blockquote>

Juan Sebastián Verón

PS - if you think Ngog and Veronin are Liverpool quality, then you truly are a troll.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 18, 2010, 06:54:29 PM
  Quote from: Redman on Yesterday at 04:21:47 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg21136#msg21136)  <blockquote>  Spot on Dude, where are the fools that were screaming for Rafa's head at the end of last season? Disappeared up their own backsides by the look of it. Pope Pumpa*se now thinks that Roys appointment is inspired but that's only because he doesn't want to appear a hypocrite when screaming for Rafa to be sacked. We are in a very dire situation right now and I can see us losing 2 of the 3 up and coming matches. Folks were saying that we were 1 win off 4th place, well we're not now. I can see us being relegated this season. How many folk would have thought ManU would be relagated in the 70's? No club is too big to go down. At least Rafa had a game plan, Roy's like a fecking deer caught in the headlights, he hasn't got a clue and man am I p**sed  >:( >:( >:(

Redman

p.s Did you or anyone else hear that fat f**kwit on SSN after the final whistle, Roy needs time, he's inherited Rafa's crap squad, Rafa's spent all the money etc etc the usual bile, I wanted to punch him in his know nothing fat face</blockquote>   
 
great to see you again, redman.
 
I didn't see the SSN thingie......I am still in the mountains of central america.
 
typical pope - black is white and left is right, in his world.
 
roy's not up to the task, I am afraid.  :(
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 18, 2010, 07:06:15 PM
  Quote from: Martinmarx on Today at 06:41:54 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg21377#msg21377)  <blockquote>Like the nearly 40 millions he spent on an injury prone and unproven Italian and a right-back when the impressive Ngog and Voronin were our back ups to Torres? Not even Fergie would get that much to spend on such poor players. </blockquote>

Juan Sebastián Verón

PS - if you think Ngog and Veronin are Liverpool quality, then you truly are a troll.

Well, I don't but Rafa obviously did as he chose to spend nearly 40 million on Aquilani and Johnson rather than quality back up for Torres. It even had me declare we were out of the race in July before the season even started which, of course, had me declared a fool.

Was Seba bought the last 3 years? Please check again, son.

Me saying I think Roy's the right man to lay a foundation for Liverpool despite doubting he'll win the title for us is connected to the fact I realise, in contrast to many of you, how far from winning it we actually are. It'll take time and effort. It'll be a 4 year process at a minimum. I don't think Roy will last 4 years, but I do think that when he leaves the coming manager will reap the rewards sewed by Roy. That's what I'm trying to say. Try to listen to what I say instead of descending to petty and childish namecalling and we may actually have a nice conversation.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 18, 2010, 07:16:35 PM
like Hicks, you make up rubbish that rafa had a fortune to spend.......you claim that he bought badly.
on the contrary, rafa had limited funds and had to cut his cloth accordingly.

I want to pick up this point with you Dude. At the beginning of last season were we desperate for another striker to aid Torres. A lot of people recognised this. Not sure if you did. But what does Rafa do? Spends a club record for a RB on Johnson and circa £19M on Aquilani!! Sorry, but that was poor judgement.

We had a decent RB in Kelly who, despite playing well when he's stepped up to the plate, is still ignored by Hodgson as well as Rafa.

So on your two points above I would say he did buy badly and it was compounded because he had limited funds. We all know Ngog is a keen youngster with some potential but hardly a good partner for Torres.

Of course if he hadn't aliented Alonso he wouldn't have needed to buy Aquilani in the first place.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 18, 2010, 07:19:55 PM
I want to pick up this point with you Dude. At the beginning of last season were we desperate for another striker to aid Torres. A lot of people recognised this. Not sure if you did. But what does Rafa do? Spends a club record for a RB on Johnson and circa £19M on Aquilani!! Sorry, but that was poor judgement.

We had a decent RB in Kelly who, despite playing well when he's stepped up to the plate, is still ignored by Hodgson as well as Rafa.

So on your two points above I would say he did buy badly and it was compounded because he had limited funds. We all know Ngog is a keen youngster with some potential but hardly a good partner for Torres.

Of course if he hadn't aliented Alonso he wouldn't have needed to buy Aquilani in the first place.

Good post. Could any one in here name me one PL side in which Ngog would find himself a regular starter? I know I can't. Yet Rafa decided to play him as back up and Lucas as replacement for Xabi who he bullied away as the sociopath he is. But I'm sure that was Hick's decision as well.  ::)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 18, 2010, 07:31:11 PM
Me saying I think Roy's the right man to lay a foundation for Liverpool despite doubting he'll win the title for us is connected to the fact I realise, in contrast to many of you, how far from winning it we actually are. It'll take time and effort. It'll be a 4 year process at a minimum. I don't think Roy will last 4 years, but I do think that when he leaves the coming manager will reap the rewards sewed by Roy. That's what I'm trying to say.

Sorry Martin, can't agree with you on much of that. He's got a set way of setting up his teams and won't change. That's why we continue to play poorly over nearly a dozen games.

That style may work for smaller clubs like Fulham and Blackburn but won't for Liverpool because we're expected to go out and win games as opposed to not losing them. Rafa was also guilty of that for large parts of his tenure but when he did let the team "off the leash" in the last few months of the 08-09 season we played some brilliant football.

I don't think Roy will be around in 4 years. In fact, I don't think he'll be around in 4 months. Some might argue he should be around in 4 weeks! One thing is for sure. The new owners will be looking at the results very carefully over the next few games and if we don't start winning they'll be taking advice on a replacement.

Sometimes in an office environment you see people promoted beyond their capabilities. I'm afraid this is a promotion too far for Roy decent man though he is. Those post-match comments yesterday were baffling and brought ridicule on him.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 18, 2010, 07:51:25 PM
Sorry Martin, can't agree with you on much of that. He's got a set way of setting up his teams and won't change. That's why we continue to play poorly over nearly a dozen games.

That style may work for smaller clubs like Fulham and Blackburn but won't for Liverpool because we're expected to go out and win games as opposed to not losing them.

We've played two thirds of a dozen. Try to be honest. The sooner you realise there's a difference between where you want this football club to be and where it actually is the sooner you'll be able to tackle this in a more mature manner. I don't say that in a patronising way, not at all. Although, you are the prototype of the fan genuinely believing it's just  a matter of getting the best merited manager in and, woosh, we'll win it like that. Wakey, wakey, that ain't how it'll pan out regardless of who we bring in. I think Wenger got it spot on when he said the fall from grace is rapid but the build up is a long and slow process. For more than a decade this club's been mismanaged by two inept managers. Inept in understanding what winning the PL is about. I credit both with being able to string together the ocassional cup run, though. If we really want to get back to the "Liverpool way" I don't think looking for a fancy and posh continental manager is the answer. This will take time mate, no matter who we bring in. We're not the club we once were I think a lot of people would be better off if they could accept that idea instead of venting unrealistic expectations to anyone willing to listen.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 18, 2010, 08:18:06 PM
We've played two thirds of a dozen. Try to be honest.
13 actually. 8 Prem, 4 Europa and 1 CC. And I'm always honest.

Quote
The sooner you realise there's a difference between where you want this football club to be and where it actually is the sooner you'll be able to tackle this in a more mature manner.
Well that attitude is going to win you friends! Perhaps you should find out more about people before you start criticising their opinions. You agreed with my post 30 minutes ago but now say I need to be more mature. Change your attitude. I don't mind you having a different opinion but please don't insult me.

Quote
I don't say that in a patronising way, not at all. Although, you are the prototype of the fan genuinely believing it's just  a matter of getting the best merited manager in and, woosh, we'll win it like that. Wakey, wakey, that ain't how it'll pan out regardless of who we bring in.
That's a sweeping statement! How many of my posts have you read? I'll tell you what. if you think RH is going to turn this team around then you are in a minority of one. I can't remember seeing a good word said for him since yesterday's comments. These players we have aren't bad players but they're playing a system that is patently wrong. No wonder they can't adapt to it.
Quote
For more than a decade this club's been mismanaged by two inept managers. Inept in understanding what winning the PL is about.
Inept is far too strong a word. You don't get to where they are by being inept. And they were both hamstrung by financial constraints. Not a problem at Chelsea, Manure or Arsenal. Could any of those managers won the PL with Liverpool and the funds we had? I don't think so.

Quote
We're not the club we once were I think a lot of people would be better off if they could accept that idea instead of venting unrealistic expectations to anyone willing to listen.

We may not be title contenders but neither are we relegation fodder but because of RH's tactics that is the reality now. It's not unrealistic to expect to win at home against Blackpool, Sunderland and Northampton. Or put pressure against Everton to make a game of it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 18, 2010, 08:34:16 PM
Again, I do not think Roy will ever win us the title. But then again, the title is at least 3-4 years away even if God himself would descend with Shanks and Sir Bob to his assistance. But I am confindent that Roy, if given time, will leave a foundation for a coming manager to benefit from. Of that I am sure. I just think the criticism is so without nuances, fairness or validity and it that respect I am ashamed to read some of the stuff on here and elsewhere.

Based on what, Martin? Genuine question.

No one (though there are some, though not on here) in their right mind is even contemplating a title challenge, nevermind expecting one.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 18, 2010, 08:37:09 PM
I retract the patronising words. Sorry, and I mean that. I'll shape up from now on.

We lost to lesser sides this season true, but we did the same under both Rafa and GH. Difference is both the latter had both time and money to transmit a gameplan. It didn't work. I stand by both GH and Rafa were inept in terms of buildning a title challenging side. Both failed massively despite being handed the title on a silver plate by our then rivals.

It's to early to judge Roy.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 18, 2010, 08:43:03 PM
Based on what, Martin? Genuine question.

No one (though there are some, though not on here) in their right mind is even contemplating a title challenge, nevermind expecting one.

Why then the kicking and screaming, why the reluctance to add nuance to the analysis of our situation and try to see the bigger picture, why dismissing Roy's gameplan before he even got an honest chance to transmit it to the squad? Not saying it'll happen but IF we win the next 5 games we'll probably be inside touching distance of 4th. I really really really think people are overreacting and Roy gets to pay the price for the failure of Rafa and GH.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 18, 2010, 09:21:55 PM
Why then the kicking and screaming, why the reluctance to add nuance to the analysis of our situation and try to see the bigger picture, why dismissing Roy's gameplan before he even got an honest chance to transmit it to the squad? Not saying it'll happen but IF we win the next 5 games we'll probably be inside touching distance of 4th. I really really really think people are overreacting and Roy gets to pay the price for the failure of Rafa and GH.

This is starting to feel like the anti-Rafa/pro-Rafa stuff.

Honest question Martin, did you positively want Roy Hodgson to be the next Liverpool manager when you heard that Benitez had left?

You think people are overreacting, fine that's your opinion, but there are fans who didn't want Hodgson as manager before he was even appointed and they had their reasons. They hold a different opinion, different but equally as valid as yours. You do your argument no favours with all the attempted put downs of any opinion that differs from your own.   
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 18, 2010, 09:41:35 PM
That's the point I'm trying to make, Tes. Whether I wanted him or Rafa or who have you is irrelevant - you just cannot say a manager is wrong (or right for that matter) on the back of 8 games. I mean, if personal preferences, rather than actual analysis that takes the broad perspective on things dictates how we reason, then any debate pertaining to be sensible is doomed. I got my fair chair of stick for criticising first GH and then Rafa, but that was on the back of several seasons where they proved themselves time and again the wrong persons to lead the on-pitch matters of the club. Rafa got 228 PL games as manager which had us ending up as 7th in the league, yet people were prepared to give him a vote of confidence whereas Roy doesn't even get 8 games before people are declaring him a failure. Where's the actual logic in that. You may find me on the barricades screaming and kicking for Roy's removal but it won't be until he actually got a fair chance to prove himself wrong, and he hasn't had that chance just yet.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: wittsy on October 18, 2010, 09:44:53 PM
Why then the kicking and screaming, why the reluctance to add nuance to the analysis of our situation and try to see the bigger picture, why dismissing Roy's gameplan before he even got an honest chance to transmit it to the squad? Not saying it'll happen but IF we win the next 5 games we'll probably be inside touching distance of 4th. I really really really think people are overreacting and Roy gets to pay the price for the failure of Rafa and GH.

Don't think anyone would say sack Roy NOW but he is running out of time. Truthfully do you think we'll win the next two never mind five? He would keep his job if he won one and drew one but he has to get the team thinking they can do it and thats the problem.

That side on paper is a top six side and since he has used an almost identicle system to Rafa's why the bad results? He may turn it around and hope he does, but just can't see how he'll improve us in anyway.  Just what foundation is he going to set for future managers when he has very little vision or guts and his history says he's badly flawed.

Remember this, it's the worst start for eternity for a reason........ NO ONE has done that badly, even RB and GH with their "terrible" players.

One last point... how much harder is it to rebuild when your in the championship with less revenue and less chance of attracting a top manager or players ??

Basically it's down to Roy to turn this around in the next few games.... I really do hope he does, he's a gent.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 18, 2010, 10:19:41 PM
I retract the patronising words. Sorry, and I mean that. I'll shape up from now on.
Thanks. Perhaps we can start again.

Quote
We lost to lesser sides this season true, but we did the same under both Rafa and GH. Difference is both the latter had both time and money to transmit a gameplan. It didn't work. I stand by both GH and Rafa were inept in terms of buildning a title challenging side. Both failed massively despite being handed the title on a silver plate by our then rivals.
Yes, we have lost to lesser sides under GH and RB but it's the nature of the defeat that is important. Take Everton this season. Most commentators were saying they were playing better than their league position suggested. That was borne out when they won at Birmingham and yesterday. In comparison, everyone has criticised our playing style and that's from Alan Hansen and Henry Winter and Rory Smith (both Telegraph reporters) who all know a great deal about football.

And I've also heard on Radio5Live and BBC MoTD / MoTD2 the same comments that Roy appears "out of his depth". Take yesterday. We went 2-0 down before the 50th minute but it took nearly 20 minutes before he made a substitution. Why? Because I honestly think he didn't knew what to do. He could be seen taking to Sammy Lee who shrugged his shoulders. Roy has to have the nouse to know what to do and I don't think he does.

We played 4-4-2 away at Man City and then play 4-5-1 at home to Sunderland. His tactics are a nonsense. I want him to suceed. I was open-minded when he arrived but a manager can only be judged by his results and he's clearly not delivering.

I still don't agree with your use of the word 'inept' to describe GH's and RB's efforts to win the PL. Finishing 2nd is not inept. After the 1-4 win at Manure we won 8 out of 9 games and only missed winning the title because of Manure's lucky win over Aston Villa. On such small things are titles won or lost.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 18, 2010, 10:25:32 PM
I have one other criticism of Roy. A few weeks ago he gave a clear public signal to Ryan Babel that he had until January to prove himself. Since then he hasn't started a single game and his total time on the pitch is no more than 45 minutes.

Has he forgotten what he said? You have to give the lad a chance because despite his many faults he is young, strong and has a decent shot. Time to give Babel a chance on Sunday I think but sadly, I doubt he will.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: buck on October 18, 2010, 10:28:02 PM
How is Roy laying down the foundations for the future when two of the players he signed are either close to 30 or past 30?  I can appreciate your support of him but will you still support him when come Christmas we are in the bottom three? 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on October 18, 2010, 10:37:30 PM
I hate to say, and never said it before even under souey, but I'm beginning to hope we lose against blackburn - and however more teams it takes for the board to wise up and spot the square peg in the round hole. I hated he idea of Roy taking over from Rafa, so I know I am a bit biased against him, but every time I watch the shapeless, dispirited quagmire sitting immobilised in the middle of pitch (the whole team that is, not just Poulson) and listen to his geriatric ramblings afterwards that try to convince me that as a Koppite I am honoured to be mismanaged by him, I just want to tear out my eyes and stick them down my lugholes. Its the only way I can make him go away. But then I just end up brooding on it all. What I am saying (I think!) is - has anyone else got to the point where you want us to lose just to get shut? I really am getting there...as this rant clearly shows!!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 18, 2010, 10:51:26 PM
I hate to say, and never said it before even under souey, but I'm beginning to hope we lose against blackburn - and however more teams it takes for the board to wise up and spot the square peg in the round hole. I hated he idea of Roy taking over from Rafa, so I know I am a bit biased against him, but every time I watch the shapeless, dispirited quagmire sitting immobilised in the middle of pitch (the whole team that is, not just Poulson) and listen to his geriatric ramblings afterwards that try to convince me that as a Koppite I am honoured to be mismanaged by him, I just want to tear out my eyes and stick them down my lugholes. Its the only way I can make him go away. But then I just end up brooding on it all. What I am saying (I think!) is - has anyone else got to the point where you want us to lose just to get shut? I really am getting there...as this rant clearly shows!!

Hi, Clem and welcome. I don't regard it as bias. It's hard when a lot of us didn't want him (nothing personal) as there was nothing to suggest in his whole career that he would be the right appointment.
Unfortunately, nothing we've seen has made us think otherwise.

We see the evidence before our eyes. We see the evidence in his CV, in the sorts of clubs and countries he's managed, the realistic expectation levels of each of those individual teams and the achievements, or lack of, depending on the team, that he had with those teams.
He's a certain kind of manager for a certain level of team. It's what he does, and does it reasonably well. He's had successes given the context.

I understand your frustration. Frustration and wonderment as to why he was thought suitable in the first place and frustration that it is going the way we dreaded it would. Frustration, despite the desire to be proved that our feelings were misplaced, that they haven't been proved wrong and despite the manager's protestations to the contrary, that they don't look like being proved wrong. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on October 18, 2010, 11:02:43 PM
cheers, tes - well said. Agree all that.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: subsy on October 18, 2010, 11:30:58 PM
Right ASI, with you totally.... it's not the fact that we're losing, it's the manner in which we're losing, and the managers inability to react to the changing dynamics during a game. Instead he seems to just be blank, almost ostrich like with head in the sand.... ignore it, and maybe it will fix itself... unfortunately watching Woy at the weekend and seeing the look of utter bemusement on his face reminded me very much of how dubya looked when he was sat in that classroom when he found out that a plane had just hit the twin towers.

I'm very worried that the longer he remains in charge the further down the spiral we will slip.
Poor performances driven by managerial decisions void of any tactical acumen, diminishing morale, wasted money on average at best players... none of it bodes well.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 18, 2010, 11:32:55 PM

It's incredible really people do not see the damage done to this club for over a decade by GH and Rafa. Even more incredible is the fact people somehow think it'll be fixed inside 8 games with 2 international breaks, new manager, players and the hardest fixture list since John Holmes took up his acting career.


Martin if you call the Worthington the Cup 2001, FA Cup 2001, UEFA Cup 2001, FA Charity Shield 2001,  UEFA Super Cup 2001, Worthington Cup 2003 and Champions League 2005, Super Cup 2005, FA Cup 2006, Charity Shield 2006, CL final 2007 damage then I hope Roy damages the sh*t out of this club. In that decade the only piece of silverware missing between Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez is the Premier League and you have the cheek of accusing both men of damaging the club.

Gerard Houllier transformed Melwood. If you were to accuse anyone of damaging then I could have seen a case for Graham Souness but I just dont understand the failure whether you liked the managers or not to acknowledge their achievements.

Again, I do not think Roy will ever win us the title.

Then why in Gods name do you want to keep the guy as manager? Because hes a decent, hard working, nice guy? Nice guys never win and I really dont understand why you would want to keep a manager that you dont think capable of winning the league.

If you were Roys boss would you really leave him in control if you didnt think he could win us the league?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2010, 12:34:19 AM
  Quote from: Ageing Stick Insect on Today at 07:16:35 PM (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5508.msg21394#msg21394)  <blockquote>  I want to pick up this point with you Dude. At the beginning of last season were we desperate for another striker to aid Torres. A lot of people recognised this. Not sure if you did. But what does Rafa do? Spends a club record for a RB on Johnson and circa £19M on Aquilani!! Sorry, but that was poor judgement.

We had a decent RB in Kelly who, despite playing well when he's stepped up to the plate, is still ignored by Hodgson as well as Rafa.

So on your two points above I would say he did buy badly and it was compounded because he had limited funds. We all know Ngog is a keen youngster with some potential but hardly a good partner for Torres.

Of course if he hadn't aliented Alonso he wouldn't have needed to buy Aquilani in the first place. </blockquote>   
 
we're on the same hymnsheet, ASI.  I agree with all your points above (with the exception of Kelly).  I have never rated Johnston.  Aquilini was a bizarre buy - given his price and bad injury.
 
The point however is, that Utd, Chelsea and now City can afford expensive mistakes - we cannot.  They have bought lots of expensive flops too.  But we don't have any wriggle room, to change things around easily or cover our mistakes.  They do.
 
But look at the superb spine that Rafa created.  And all on a net shoe
Can you see Roy (or anyone else) ever again hammer Utd and Real Madrid, by 4 goals to one, in the same week?  That was Rafa's pedigree.  Others can only dream of that.
 
My sadness is that Rafa wasn't around at a time when we had a decent budget to spend. 
We will never now know, how great he could have made us.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 19, 2010, 01:24:34 AM
Hmmm...I think it's good having MartinMax on here sticking up for Roy.....I mean I hate to see the team lose and these embarrassing results against crap teams...Roy is an easy target to vent my frustrations on (a seriously easy target). I accept as well that 9 out of 10 managers would say the equally stupid things Roy says if they were managing Liverpool in this mess. So yeah he has my sympathies and I kindof recoil at the thought of a good football man having his reputation destroyed by our club (BAD KARMA!!).

There's only so much juggling he can do with the teamsheet and he's unlucky with Kuyt (but i think Everton had more injuries). Perhaps also the notion of relegation is a little on the hysterical side (we're a point or 2 from safety LOL).

So what are we doing here?
Finish outside the top 4, no champions league football for a second year running????? The problem there, aside from the financial implications, is the stars might leave (who'd blame them!) and it would be difficult to attract real quality to replace them.

So the target is to finish top 4, with some astute business in the January transfer window....WE'RE ABOUT 8 POINTS OFF THE TOP 4 NOW....

Can Roy deliver that? Galvanise a team of misfits/has-beens to charge up that table? Or are we just not bothered about top 4 anymore? Personally, I think what is possible depends a lot on the man in charge. I think that the new owners want top 4 this season and will have the finger on the trigger, things were probably set in motion after the derby and there'll be a replacement at Anfield for the Chelsea game. As long as Roy leaves with a bit of dignity I'm happy enough...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 19, 2010, 01:52:34 AM
When we were 3 nil down at half-time in Istanbul....what was the reality then?? did we give up? concede defeat? team isn't good enough?

B*llocks we're Liverpool FC....It's going to be very hard (no two ways about it!!)...but unless the target is 4th (don't need a guarantee like last year), unless the team goes out with that attitude (nobody has to talk it up!) in the next game and the one after that and the one after that....We are winners and when we stop trying the impossible we cease to exist!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 19, 2010, 06:23:15 AM
I have one other criticism of Roy. A few weeks ago he gave a clear public signal to Ryan Babel that he had until January to prove himself. Since then he hasn't started a single game and his total time on the pitch is no more than 45 minutes.

Has he forgotten what he said? You have to give the lad a chance because despite his many faults he is young, strong and has a decent shot. Time to give Babel a chance on Sunday I think but sadly, I doubt he will.

I too noticed that and am a tad surprised Ryan hasn't practically featured since. Worse tho, IMHO, is the constant omission of Jovanovic who lifted us against  Sunderland and Blackpool. Maxi ain't a PL player so why persist playing him. I also think he should've taken off Carra last 30 against Toffees and played Maxi/Babel/Jovanovic for right side. At least it signalled he wanted to win a lost game. It's not that I'm not critical of Roy, just won't call for his head during his first season. It's a principle I have and stand by. Didn't do it with Souey, Roy, GH or Rafa and won't start now.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 19, 2010, 09:50:27 AM
It's not that I'm not critical of Roy, just won't call for his head during his first season. It's a principle I have and stand by. Didn't do it with Souey, Roy, GH or Rafa and won't start now.

That makes a lot of sense, Martin and now it's crystal clear where you're coming from.

You'll get used to the style of us all on here pretty quickly. We'll point out as what we see are mistakes, flaws, even incompetencies, but we all try to do it in a respectful way without getting personal to the subject of the criticism or with each other.
Bottom line is we all want what we perceive to be the best for the club.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 19, 2010, 11:40:38 AM
Martin if you call the Worthington the Cup 2001, FA Cup 2001, UEFA Cup 2001, FA Charity Shield 2001,  UEFA Super Cup 2001, Worthington Cup 2003 and Champions League 2005, Super Cup 2005, FA Cup 2006, Charity Shield 2006, CL final 2007 damage then I hope Roy damages the sh*t out of this club. In that decade the only piece of silverware missing between Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez is the Premier League and you have the cheek of accusing both men of damaging the club.

Listing friendlies as a means of papering over the crap, won't disguise he fact GH was a disaster for this club his last 3 seasons. Pretty much the same with Rafa in his final 3 seasons.

Then why in Gods name do you want to keep the guy as manager?

Because, as I said somewhere above, I believe LFC is in a transitional phase where it needs to build a foundation for future success rather than actually achieving it (because it's simply not possible for a couple of years). Because Roy more than any other manager we had since Kenny has that ability and have shown it time and again during his long career (though many of you no doubt will belittle those achievments). Some people on here mock his record as manager. True he hasn't won a lot of trophies. But he has helped many clubs reach higher levels by building a foundation. People say LFC is about winning silverware. That may be true. That statement isn't very realistic at this time, though. Bring in all your fancy and posh managers and they'll fail to win the title and the only result we'll see is another 4-5 years and a couple of hundred millions spent without taking this club a single step closer to that elusive no. 19. Liverpool FC need to accept where it is, the club need to return to its roots and convert them into a "Liverpool way" of the 2010's. GH's and Rafa's desire to win titles rather than building a foundation, dynasty what have you for the future have weakened the club through the years and in that sense I think both did damage to this club although they both managed, as I've already said, to string together the ocassional cup run.

I think Wenger is very sound and sober in his latest comments on where this club is for the time being. It'll take time but we'll get there. Swedish poet Karin Boye once wrote the beautiful poem "In motion". I think it captures the way I see football, the way see life.


"The sated day is never first.
The best day is a day of thirst.

Yes, there is goal and meaning in our path -
but it's the way that is the labour's worth.

The best goal is a night-long rest,
fire lit, and bread broken in haste.

In places where one sleeps but once,
sleep is secure, dreams full of songs.

Strike camp, strike camp! The new day shows its light.
Our great adventure has no end in sight."
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 19, 2010, 12:16:07 PM
Listing friendlies as a means of papering over the crap, won't disguise he fact GH was a disaster for this club his last 3 seasons. Pretty much the same with Rafa in his final 3 seasons.

Because Roy more than any other manager we had since Kenny has that ability and have shown it time and again during his long career (though many of you no doubt will belittle those achievments). Some people on here mock his record as manager.

I think its unfair of you Martin to stick up for Roys record if you yourself belittle what Houllier and Benitez have won.

I can see where your coming from with the idea of stability and getting Liverpool back to being the type of club it once was. However I dont agree that we have to compromise on what our targets should be. We have the spine of a very talented team and by spine I am talking about Reina, Agger, Gerrard and Torres. Then there are some worthy players in there after that and some less worthy with some promising younger players coming through. But the fact that we finished 7th last season should indicate that with some quality additions we should be back challenging for at least 4th not propping up the league table.

To quote Bill shankly ;

“Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor.”

Martin I just dont see the point in us keeping Roy if you feel he wont be eventually capable of winning us the league. At what point do you fire him then and hand over the reigns to a manager you think can challenge. Is that manager then expected to follow on with Hodgsons blue print of Liverpool or will be be allowed to adopt his own approach at which point we will be starting again. I understand what your saying but I dont think its a process you can adopt to LFC. You bring a manager into LFC with the intention of them one day challenging for the league. The fact that you yourself admit you dont think Hodgson can do that is evidence enough for me to say hes not the right man for the job.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 19, 2010, 12:34:12 PM
Because Roy more than any other manager we had since Kenny has that ability


Let's hope he does not show the same ability that he showed at Blackburn Rovers cos' right now that's where we're at!

...and have shown it time and again during his long career (though many of you no doubt will belittle those achievments).

Sorry, but a long career means nothing.  The guy has no tactical ability and he will be gone......just a matter of time.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 19, 2010, 01:57:58 PM
I think its unfair of you Martin to stick up for Roys record if you yourself belittle what Houllier and Benitez have won.

I can see where your coming from with the idea of stability and getting Liverpool back to being the type of club it once was. However I dont agree that we have to compromise on what our targets should be. We have the spine of a very talented team and by spine I am talking about Reina, Agger, Gerrard and Torres. Then there are some worthy players in there after that and some less worthy with some promising younger players coming through. But the fact that we finished 7th last season should indicate that with some quality additions we should be back challenging for at least 4th not propping up the league table.

Martin I just dont see the point in us keeping Roy if you feel he wont be eventually capable of winning us the league. At what point do you fire him then and hand over the reigns to a manager you think can challenge. Is that manager then expected to follow on with Hodgsons blue print of Liverpool or will be be allowed to adopt his own approach at which point we will be starting again. I understand what your saying but I dont think its a process you can adopt to LFC. You bring a manager into LFC with the intention of them one day challenging for the league. The fact that you yourself admit you dont think Hodgson can do that is evidence enough for me to say hes not the right man for the job.

We've heard the same argument for over a decade now - "we have a very strong spine we just need too...". Yes, we have 6-7 very good players able to slot into a titlewinning side (I'd add Kuijt, Meireles and Cole to the ones you mentioned). But for the past decade both GH and Rafa has failed massively to help youngsters come through. It's 12 years since Gerrard broke through ffs. Rafa bought, I think I heard somewhere, 86 players during his tenure. EIGHTYf***INGSIX PLAYERS. That's nearly 8 full teams in six years. He was clueless as to how to build that foundation Shanks and Sir Bob instilled and benefitted from for so many years.

I think reinstating this club as a major force in English footy will be a two step process where filling the expression "The Liverpool Way" with content will represent the first step, then actually, in step two, challenge for honours. I think Roy's perfect to help this club through step one, but I may be wrong.

You say challenge's a prerequisite for managing his club. Too f***ing bad then neither GH nor Rafa during their 12 years of combined management managed to pull off that feat more than 2 times (tho I question whether GH actually challenged as the title was lost with 7 games to play and the reason we finished 2nd was down to a*senal beating ManU in the 37th game of the 2001/2002 season rather than us pushing it down to the final day).

I think it's unrealistic to hope this club will challenge for anything but 4th in the coming years. That's how sad things have become but it isn't Roy' fault by any means. If he'll fail to instill joy, faith, grit and will this season you'll meet me at the top of the barricades early next season kicking and screaming for his removal. But not until then.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on October 19, 2010, 04:30:45 PM
I do admire the passion of the previous post, but I do think the manager had made an inauspicious start to his career both as our coach and our spokesman: insulting Norwegian reporters has never really been 'the liverpool way' before. Maybe we should feel humble that roy is re-defining the terms of our traditions as well as he is redefining what constitutes a good performance from Liverpool in the derby.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 19, 2010, 04:51:05 PM
Hmmm....MartinMax, tbh I don't recognise the spirit of our football club in your posts. I'm sorry!

When Shankly set out, my recollection is he had it in mind to build an empire (LOL...genius)!

What is irritating a lot of supporters w.r.t to Hodgson is the scope of his ambition, maybe he doesn't verbalise it correctly and it's certainly not there in the teams he sends out...

Ultimately that's why he'll go, BECAUSE LIVERPOOL REQUIRE A LIVERPOOL MANAGER...thriving on doing the impossible!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on October 19, 2010, 05:34:17 PM
Comparing Houllier and Rafa with Woy is a non-starter. The previous two managers have won things. ROY has always been a nearly man. He found his level at Fulham and as much as you cant help like the bloke i honestly dont think he is the man for us. We need a manager with a history of winning things and a past at a huge club.  The pressure of managing us is huge, and we need someone who has experianced it before. Roy's got 3/4  games left. Anything less than 3 wins will probably see Hodgson leave. So by the Chelsea game i'm expecting a new man in place or at leat the King taking over short term
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 19, 2010, 06:48:24 PM

we're on the same hymnsheet, ASI.  I agree with all your points above (with the exception of Kelly).  I have never rated Johnston.  Aquilini was a bizarre buy - given his price and bad injury.
I'm curious why you don't rate Kelly dude. But if you move Johnson forward he could become a decent winger. He has pace and good ball control. And critically he wouldn't have to tackle that often. Then Kelly could play at RB.
 
Quote
The point however is, that Utd, Chelsea and now City can afford expensive mistakes - we cannot.  They have bought lots of expensive flops too.  But we don't have any wriggle room, to change things around easily or cover our mistakes.  They do.
So you're suggesting we only buy proven players. They will command a premium for that very reason. In short, we didn't have the money so some risks had to be taken. Rafa did buy some good players like Crouch but wouldn't give him a guarantee of first team play. But there must have been more to that because no player can insist on that.
 
Quote
But look at the superb spine that Rafa created.  And all on a net shoe can you see Roy (or anyone else) ever again hammer Utd and Real Madrid, by 4 goals to one, in the same week?  That was Rafa's pedigree.  Others can only dream of that.
That was a dream week but unrepresentative of our performance over the season. Everything just clicked from that point until the end of season and 7/10 times our points tally would have been enough for the title. Sadly, you only realise what you had when you don't have it any more.
 
Quote
My sadness is that Rafa wasn't around at a time when we had a decent budget to spend. 
We will never now know, how great he could have made us.

Looking at his early years he did buy some good players using his knowledge of the Spanish league. But his knowledge of the better English players was limited. I think he worked on the principle that if you get enough players then by the law of averages you will get some bargains. Look at the number of players on the books when Roy took charge. he was mortified!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 19, 2010, 07:01:44 PM
It's not that I'm not critical of Roy, just won't call for his head during his first season. It's a principle I have and stand by. Didn't do it with Souey, Roy, GH or Rafa and won't start now.
You can't have set rules when it comes to decisions about a manager. You have to look at things like what players we could lose because of a system they clearly can't adapt to. Would you rather keep Roy but lose Torres in January? He's given clear warnings that we have to buy quality players or he won't stay. To his credit he's stayed this season when he could have gone. We have to respect his commitment and go out and buy 2 or 3 decent players. If I was the owner I would have one-to-ones with each player and ask their opinions on who they thought would be a good addition to the side. If the same name(s) kept coming back then that could be imparted to the manager but the final decision would be his.

Back in the 90s and early noughties there wasn't the same pressure to qualify for the CL. That is more or less mandatory for us now which is why we have to move quickly. I honestly believe that if Roy doesn't win one of Blackburn, Napoli or Bolton he should go. If we lose Torres or Reina in January we really will be in serious trouble both in terms of league performance and the ability to attract top players. You have to have either good players or a world-class manager to attract players. By Jan we could have neither.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 19, 2010, 07:43:07 PM
You can't have set rules when it comes to decisions about a manager. You have to look at things like what players we could lose because of a system they clearly can't adapt to. Would you rather keep Roy but lose Torres in January?

I don't know to be perfectly honest. For the last 3 seasons Torres' been out injured pretty much half that time, the rest of the time he hasn't contributed at all.  I know, on his day he's arguably the best striker in the world. But it's also the case that few are the times he's lifted the team on his own. I'm not saying he's crap, only that both sides of the coin should be taken into consideration. That may be down to the system deployed by Rafa as much as anything else, and this season it's obvious he's suffering from fatigue. Would I keep Torres at any cost? No, as no player will ever be bigger than the club. But I think we'll slowly recover from this poor and to some extent unlucky start to the season and Torres will inevitably find form. If he wants to leave what can you do about it (ask Fergie). I know he doesn't look less happy now he did last season.

In any case, I don't think we're playing any worse than we did last season under Rafa. As was pointed out above, too much is made of that fantastic spring of 2009 when we played well above our level. By that time Rafa had already handed back the title to Fergie after having been offered it on 3-4 ocassions during the autumn and spring. It is remarkable really that Rafa doesn't recieve more criticism for how little he actually achieved as a PL manager. People really need to be honest about this. He said get rid of Perry, and they got rid of Perry. He said give me more control of transfer signings than any other manager in the leauge, and they gave him just that.  Yet he failed to find an acceptable level as to how the team performed on average but continued to lose to teams destined for relegation eventually costing us CL qualification. It's incredible really when you see banners in the Kop with him, Shanks, Sir Bob and Kenny on it. It's the world turned upside down, it's Kafka, it's the lunies having taken over the asylum, it's what have you. It is indeed a lowpoint for "the most knowledgeable fans in the world". Yer havin a larf, right?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 19, 2010, 08:25:51 PM
Looking at his early years he did buy some good players using his knowledge of the Spanish league. But his knowledge of the better English players was limited. I think he worked on the principle that if you get enough players then by the law of averages you will get some bargains. Look at the number of players on the books when Roy took charge. he was mortified!

Our dismal transfer record really started when we lost Pako and Paco and Macia came in instead as chief scout.

In addition Rafa never seemed to indentify a position that needed strengthening and purchase accordingly.

Whether his budget was a 'use or lose it' one, he would appear to spend for the sake of it sometimes. Riera purchased in the Summer as Babbel was coming off his first, and at the time promising, season an example.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 19, 2010, 10:50:35 PM
I don't know to be perfectly honest. For the last 3 seasons Torres' been out injured pretty much half that time, the rest of the time he hasn't contributed at all. 
He's never had a decent rest since he joined us. But last season he scored 22 goals from 32 appearances. I call that quite a contribution. Here's my source http://www.liverweb.org.uk/apps.asp?season=200910.

Quote
I know, on his day he's arguably the best striker in the world. But it's also the case that few are the times he's lifted the team on his own. I'm not saying he's crap, only that both sides of the coin should be taken into consideration.
Forwards tend to get the least amount of time on the ball and are under the most pressure when they do. But he does need to improve his work rate and attitude. He seems to sulk a lot but maybe that's just the way he is.

Quote
Would I keep Torres at any cost? No, as no player will ever be bigger than the club. But I think we'll slowly recover from this poor and to some extent unlucky start to the season and Torres will inevitably find form. If he wants to leave what can you do about it (ask Fergie). I know he doesn't look less happy now he did last season.
If City were to come in with a stupid offer then we would have to consider it but after today's events I don't think they will. Chelsea won't pay silly money so if he's going anywhere it's Barcelona. Agree that no player is greater than the club but there are some you try harder to keep than others.

Quote
In any case, I don't think we're playing any worse than we did last season under Rafa.
I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that. And as this is a thread about Roy I'll pass on any comments you made about Rafa's tenure.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 19, 2010, 10:53:19 PM
Our dismal transfer record really started when we lost Pako and Paco and Macia came in instead as chief scout.
Yes, that does seem quite a coincidence Tes. Good scouts are worth their weight in gold.

Quote
In addition Rafa never seemed to indentify a position that needed strengthening and purchase accordingly.

Whether his budget was a 'use or lose it' one, he would appear to spend for the sake of it sometimes. Riera purchased in the Summer as Babbel was coming off his first, and at the time promising, season an example.

His lowest priority seemed to be strikers. Probably shows the cautious nature of the man.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 20, 2010, 10:00:54 AM
His lowest priority seemed to be strikers. Probably shows the cautious nature of the man.

ASI, it was always a strange one, wasn't it? It appeared to be central midfielders and centre backs where his focus was targetted, any old player can play wide and we have 'the world class striker', so that's job done.
Granted you have to have a strong defensive base, but creativity and finishing of chances doesn't just happen.
The foundations were in place it was the remainder that never got built.
Buying Riera when Adam Johnson only had a year on his contract was sheer folly. And look at Johnson now. I'm not right very often, but on this one I was, unfortunately.
 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 20, 2010, 12:29:27 PM
Rijkaard seems to be a free agent. I would have huge reservations about him. For me he would be a very un Liverpool type of manager and hasnt exactly set the world alight since leaving Barcelona.

The more I think about it I know Dude and Tes were big advocates of this guy  Pelligrini and he really does appeal were Roy to get the sack. He had Villarreal playing some excellent football.

Just looking at his pedigree;

With Villarreal he finished 3rd, 7th (semis of the Champs League), 5th, 2nd, 5th. Thats no easy feat with the teams that are in La Liga.

Real Madrid in 09/10 he finished 2nd on a record 96 points. If he had a star billing like Mourihno would he have been sacked, I doubt it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/20/frank-rijkaard-galatasaray-liverpool

Rijkaard linked to job at Liverpool

Frank Rijkaard's contract as coach of Galatasaray has been terminated by mutual agreement, the club said today.

The former Uefa Cup champions are ninth in the Turkish championship after eight games, eight points adrift of leaders Bursaspor. They lost 4-2 against mid-table side Ankaragucu on Sunday. The Dutchman was appointed by the Istanbul club in 2009 after leaving Barcelona the previous year.

"As a result of mutual talks with technical director Frank Rijkaard ... we have decided to part ways," read a Galatasaray statement.

Rijkaard's availability has already led to speculation that he could replace Roy Hodgson as Liverpool manager. The 63-year-old Englishman has endured a torrid start to his tenure at Anfield and the club are in the relegation zone after almost a quarter of the season.

The odds on Rijkaard replacing Hodgson tumbled today and the Dutchman was 5/2 favourite with William Hill this morning. Martin O'Neill (10/3), Kenny Dalglish (5/1) and Guus Hiddink (8/1) are next on the list.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on October 20, 2010, 02:01:59 PM
Personally if Roy doesn't start producing the goods and it'll be blatantly obvious within the next 5 games or so, then i would like Pelligrini...Hiddink as 2nd choice...

But in the last few days and all this business about Rooney and how he's dumping manure and taggart...i have come to a realisation that John Henry and whoever our manager will be, need to look for players with some f***ing pride...
i laugh my tits off as every liverpool supporter does at the problems at Manure...but i can't help feeling the sadness of the situation of football...where are the callaghan's of the 867 games? The players who are loyal...you might hate scholes and giggs but at least they're loyal...no matter how deranged the cause they fight for...and when you see all these mercenaries in it just for the money...where they're only being paid x amount to sit on the bench...

as a manager i would root through players who seemed to give a f***...and sign them....sure they may be a handful in the dressing room, but with genius and passion comes the reverse...
i would introduce these new players into a factory in liverpool for a week, to work, where they see the people around them idolise them and realise just who they're playing for...
these footballers are not playing for their families, for their contracts cover them handsomely...these footballers are playing for us...we are the ones who fought to get hicks and gillette out...the ones who tweeted...who facebooked...who emailed to all our friends and who spread the word...we are the ones who pay for tickets to see our team...who pay for merchandise..
we do not want players whose heads go down in the first 10 minutes of the game when things don't go their way...we want players who love that situation, who thrive on it...who will stand up and say fork everyone...who will see that the manager is directionless (Roy take note) and take the game by the scruff of the neck and play despite...all eleven should bark orders and all eleven trust each other enough to go with what is being said...eleven captains all playing for us...and 4 captains on the bench...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 20, 2010, 04:25:53 PM
Rijkaard seems to be a free agent. I would have huge reservations about him. For me he would be a very un Liverpool type of manager and hasnt exactly set the world alight since leaving Barcelona.

The more I think about it I know Dude and Tes were big advocates of this guy  Pelligrini and he really does appeal were Roy to get the sack. He had Villarreal playing some excellent football.

Just looking at his pedigree;

With Villarreal he finished 3rd, 7th (semis of the Champs League), 5th, 2nd, 5th. Thats no easy feat with the teams that are in La Liga.

Real Madrid in 09/10 he finished 2nd on a record 96 points. If he had a star billing like Mourihno would he have been sacked, I doubt it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/20/frank-rijkaard-galatasaray-liverpool

Rijkaard linked to job at Liverpool

Frank Rijkaard's contract as coach of Galatasaray has been terminated by mutual agreement, the club said today.

The former Uefa Cup champions are ninth in the Turkish championship after eight games, eight points adrift of leaders Bursaspor. They lost 4-2 against mid-table side Ankaragucu on Sunday. The Dutchman was appointed by the Istanbul club in 2009 after leaving Barcelona the previous year.

"As a result of mutual talks with technical director Frank Rijkaard ... we have decided to part ways," read a Galatasaray statement.

Rijkaard's availability has already led to speculation that he could replace Roy Hodgson as Liverpool manager. The 63-year-old Englishman has endured a torrid start to his tenure at Anfield and the club are in the relegation zone after almost a quarter of the season.

The odds on Rijkaard replacing Hodgson tumbled today and the Dutchman was 5/2 favourite with William Hill this morning. Martin O'Neill (10/3), Kenny Dalglish (5/1) and Guus Hiddink (8/1) are next on the list.

Rijkaard's record since Henk Ten Cate left as his assistant whilst at a Barca has been dismal. He's still living on past reputation from when Cate was his assistant. It's similar to when Houllier lost Patrice Bergues and Benitez lost Pako Ayesteran.

For me Pellegrini has shown two assets. He's shown the ability to take a very moderate team and improve them beyond what you'd expect, whilst at the same time improving the players individually, Rossi and Forlan being prime examples.
Secondly, to be able to take that collection of egos and such an unbalanced squad with many new additions altogether and mould them into a team that finish with a record points total, better than anything Capello or Del Bosque achieved, was a terrific achievement. I realise they didn't beat Barca to the title, but then again, that Barca team is incredibly settled with many of the players having played together through the junior ranks as well as the first and together for their country in addition.

He'd also play the type of football which would better suit the likes of Torres, Gerrard, Cole, Maxi and Meireles and would utilise Agger's abilities better.   
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 20, 2010, 05:19:02 PM
Completely agreed Barticus. I would have been an advocate for signing more English players, especially when you look at the likes of Mascherano jumping ship after Liverpool saved his career. However when you see Rooney looking for an out it makes you wonder are all players the same these days chasing the almighty dollar.

If he moves to Man City for the cash it does make club loyalty look like a thing of the past. The one thing I will say about the Rooney situation is that I get the impression that there is more to the situation than we are seeing. Fergie was quick to give his side of things and vilify Rooney but I wouldnt be surprised if something major between himself and Fergie has gone down.

It would also worry me to see Rooney go abroad. Realistically it would strengthen Liverpools chances for a future league title, he would never come to us and Chelsea/Man City would be his destination in England however it would weaken the premier league further to see another big name player leave. Torres could well be next and that would make most of the worlds stars plying their trade in Spain.

Agreed also on the idea of some top stars doing some hard labour in a factory. If only that were a reality. It might opens their eyes to how good they have it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 20, 2010, 05:27:19 PM
Rijkaard's record since Henk Ten Cate left as his assistant whilst at a Barca has been dismal. He's still living on past reputation from when Cate was his assistant. It's similar to when Houllier lost Patrice Bergues and Benitez lost Pako Ayesteran.

For me Pellegrini has shown two assets. He's shown the ability to take a very moderate team and improve them beyond what you'd expect, whilst at the same time improving the players individually, Rossi and Forlan being prime examples.
Secondly, to be able to take that collection of egos and such an unbalanced squad with many new additions altogether and mould them into a team that finish with a record points total, better than anything Capello or Del Bosque achieved, was a terrific achievement. I realise they didn't beat Barca to the title, but then again, that Barca team is incredibly settled with many of the players having played together through the junior ranks as well as the first and together for their country in addition.

He'd also play the type of football which would better suit the likes of Torres, Gerrard, Cole, Maxi and Meireles and would utilise Agger's abilities better.

Tes as far as I am aware he hasnt joined anyone since the summer either so would be coming in on a free. He could work wonders with the team and he isnt someone that would be problematic for the board. He seems to be quiet a dignified coach. He could well be our Arsene Wenger. Its a no brainer.

My first choice as interim manager was Kenny Dalglish but that was just to see how he would get on in an interim basis while the club was being sold. Now that the club is sold and is in dire straights I'm not sure we can take that risk on Kenny so give the job to Pelligrini. He worked wonders with Villarreal and as you said proved he could cope with some big egos at Real too. He would be a great footballing choice hence he got a shot at Real.

Someone needs to send John Henry an email.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 20, 2010, 07:01:14 PM
Someone needs to send John Henry an email.
This chap (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8071794/How-Joe-Januszewskis-love-of-Liverpool-helped-spark-American-rescue-mission.html) might be a better bet. He seems to carry a lot of influence.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on October 20, 2010, 10:05:11 PM
Can you imagine the pure rage and vitriol that would explode from Ferguson if, in a press conference, a reporter dared to ask him if he thought Liverpool will bid for Rooney? Well, tonight, when asked if Man U might come in for Torres what fierce, terse reply did our media-savvy leader respond with..."We will cross that bridge when we come to it"

beyond belief

a sackable offence. Another one.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 20, 2010, 10:45:50 PM
There's a rumour on Twitter being reported on the LFC boards that tomorrow's game will be Roy's last. Reports of breakdown between senior players and the manager. Hard to say how much is smoke rather than fire. Follow it here if you feel inclined. http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=208695

And another thread suggests the club have made contact with Pelligrini. http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=208785

I'd like to think both were true but rumours are just that.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on October 20, 2010, 11:35:26 PM
the forums at RAWK and TIA have gone ballistic saying that Roy has had a bust up with disenchanted stars - Torres and reina- and is set to be ousted this week. replacement is touted as Rijkaard, not Pellegrini. What do ya'll think then?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 20, 2010, 11:36:22 PM
"Someone needs to send John Henry an email." Hilarious Juan! ;D

Senior players....not them again!  ::)

Whenever that gets mentioned something stupid usually happens!

Maybe we should get rid of the senior players! lol
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 20, 2010, 11:46:17 PM
"Someone needs to send John Henry an email." Hilarious Juan! ;D

Senior players....not them again!  ::)

Whenever that gets mentioned something stupid usually happens!

Maybe we should get rid of the senior players! lol

Ha thats nots a bad idea Ed, can we start with JC.

Yeah thats funny just when we were talking about Pelligrini today the rumours then resurface.

There are also one or two news sites reporting it. Please not Rijkaard. Although that said I dont think Roys going anywhere for now.

http://www.clickliverpool.com/sport/liverpool-fc/1211257-manuel-pellegrinis-agent-reveals-liverpool-fc-manager-talks.html

Liverpool have approached Manuel Pellegrini about the possibility of replacing Roy Hodgson, according to the former Real Madrid manager's agent.

The 56-year-old met Anfield chiefs this summer to apply for the role of Rafael Benitez's successor before it was offered to then Fulham boss Hodgson.

Jesus Martinez, Pellegrini's agent, claims that there has been contact with Liverpool but that the current change of ownership to New England Sports Ventures (NESV) has stalled any progress over negotiations.

He said: "Pellegrini has had offers from clubs in Italy, but initially wanted to wait a bit to some better option. And Liverpool is a club that Manuel would like to manager.

"We had some contacts, but as the club is in the process of change, and no one knows who is boss, no progress on the topic."

Pellegrini was relieved of his duties at the Bernabeu Stadium in May after only amassing 96 points, which resulted in Los Blancos failing to wrestle the La Liga title from Barcleona's grip.

Former Nou Camp boss Frank Rijkaard remains the firm favourite to succeed under-fire Hodgson after resigning as Galatasaray manager earlier today, supposedly in anticipation of taking the reins on Merseyside

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 20, 2010, 11:51:35 PM
Can you imagine the pure rage and vitriol that would explode from Ferguson if, in a press conference, a reporter dared to ask him if he thought Liverpool will bid for Rooney? Well, tonight, when asked if Man U might come in for Torres what fierce, terse reply did our media-savvy leader respond with..."We will cross that bridge when we come to it"

beyond belief

a sackable offence. Another one.

I know I was shocked to read that. Rooney claimed he is leaving United because lack of ambition. So why when asked did Roy not say something like well if Rooney is leaving for lack of ambition Torres is hardly going to join them.

Its about time we got a manager in who will get this team playing. If we can keep stars like Torres with a bit of investment we can turn ourselves back in to Champions league regulars and league contenders within a matter of seasons. If Torres, Gerrard and co go we could be put back 5 or 6 years.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on October 21, 2010, 12:01:22 AM
Is  Souness available?  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 21, 2010, 12:09:39 AM
Jim has just confirmed the Torres / Reina rumours on his page. Must be true. Roy's last game Thursday I reckon. Kenny in for Sunday? Very possible as too early for outside replacement.

Bloody hell! Owners last week, manager probably this week. Never seen a week like it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 21, 2010, 12:12:15 AM
Is  Souness available?  ;D

Dont joke about something like that  :P.

Say his name in front of the mirror three times and he will appear.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 21, 2010, 12:13:05 AM
Jim has just confirmed the Torres / Reina rumours on his page. Must be true. Roy's last game Thursday I reckon. Kenny in for Sunday? Very possible as too early for outside replacement.

Bloody hell! Owners last week, manager probably this week. Never seen a week like it.

Wow, about time Roy left then.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 21, 2010, 12:14:51 AM
Woy to be replaced with Fwank - no fanks.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 21, 2010, 12:16:41 AM
Wow, about time Roy left then.

'Somebody' read your post Juan - "I cant help feeling while we're getting rid of Hicks and Gillett cant someone take Roy with them"
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 21, 2010, 12:31:24 AM
Time to nail my colours to the mast so there's no doubts: I don't want Rijkaard. I believe he's not the right man and his reputation from when Henk Ten Cate was his assistant is clowding the reality of Rijkaard's performance since Ten Cate left. I'll find it hard to support him like I find it hard to support Hodgson, who I also didn't want.

It's hard to honestly feel positive about something you don't believe in. Pretending otherwise is just hypocrisy.

Pellegrini - yes
Laudrup - maybe
Di Matteo - massive outside chance, but still preferable to Rijkaard. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 21, 2010, 12:52:53 AM
I agree with ASI, for things to happen so quickly (after them seemingly backing Hodgson), coupled with Christian Purslow stepping down, may signal the return of Dalglish....
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 21, 2010, 01:01:08 AM
'Somebody' read your post Juan - "I cant help feeling while we're getting rid of Hicks and Gillett cant someone take Roy with them"

Somehow I think somebody is jumping the gun somewhere. I cant see Roy being let go so easily. The only shred of hope I would have is that Purslow didnt want to be around for the Hodgson culling so thats why hes stepped down as MD.

Time to nail my colours to the mast so there's no doubts: I don't want Rijkaard. I believe he's not the right man and his reputation from when Henk Ten Cate was his assistant is clowding the reality of Rijkaard's performance since Ten Cate left. I'll find it hard to support him like I find it hard to support Hodgson, who I also didn't want.

It's hard to honestly feel positive about something you don't believe in. Pretending otherwise is just hypocrisy.

Pellegrini - yes
Laudrup - maybe
Di Matteo - massive outside chance, but still preferable to Rijkaard. 

I would be hugely disappointed by Rijkaard. Di Matteo doesnt have the big club experience we need.  Laudrup  isnt a bad call but again I would probably say no.

Off the top of my head and trying to think whose available for me its

1. Pelligrini
2. Pelligrini
3. Hiddink (although most likely unavailable) / Kenny  / possibly O'Neil but not fully convinced

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 21, 2010, 10:56:35 AM
As I've mentioned on the site before, for me the number 1 candidate has to be Guus followed by Pellegrini.

Rijkaard for me just does not have the credentials.....I'd rather keep Woy  :o
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 21, 2010, 11:12:13 AM
So now Rijkaard is looking to come to the Premier League. Its a pity he wasn't so interested in the summer when he was first touted for the job.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6457814,00.html

Frank Rijkaard has set his sights on managing in the Premier League after leaving Galatasaray, with Sky Bet slashing the odds on the Dutchman becoming the new boss at Anfield.

The former Barcelona coach is on the lookout for a new job after an unhappy 16-month spell in Turkey with Galatasaray came to an end earlier this week.

Rijkaard's sudden availability will alert a number of clubs across Europe, but the Dutchman's advisers have told skysports.com the former AC Milan star will snub other offers to come to England.

The news of Rijkaard's desire to manage in the Premier League has already fuelled speculation that he could be a contender for the Liverpool job, should Roy Hodgson lose his role at Anfield.

Pressure is mounting on Hodgson after the Reds' poor start to the campaign, which was compounded by a 2-0 to Everton in the Merseyside derby last weekend.

Rijkaard was in the frame for the Liverpool post prior to Hodgson's appointment and he could come under consideration again should the club's new owners lose faith in the former Fulham boss.
Favourite

The ex-Inter Milan and Fulham boss is 11/10 to be the next Premier League manager to be sacked and Sky Bet's Dale Tempest reckons that Hodgson's dismal start at Anfield has paved the way for Rijkaard to replace him.

Tempest said: "Liverpool are a club in crisis so it's been no surprise to see the odds gradually shorten for Roy Hodgson to leave.

"However what we didn't expect was the gamble on Frank Rijkaard to take over.

"The Dutchman started at 12/1 on Wednesday but is now the 4/7 favourite."

Former Holland international Rijkaard is regarded as one of the best coaches in Europe following his success at Barcelona, where he won two Spanish titles and the UEFA Champions League during his tenure at Camp Nou.

The 48-year-old helped transform Barca's fortunes with his attacking brand of football and he won many plaudits during his time in Spain.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 21, 2010, 11:37:12 AM
Watching the champions league post match interviews with Ferguson just highlighted to me where Roy lacks so badly. Last night Fergie dictated the interview, he forced his view on the gathered journalists and had them agreeing with him. They almost seemed afraid to disagree with him. Roy now has created this opening for people to talk about Torres going to United. And even if Torres doesnt go to United all the talk may unsettle him and I really think he will be off.

There is being honest and there is being too honest. Roy should have said Torres is our star player, hes not for sale at any price and he certainly wont be going to United or anywhere else for that matter. Case closed todays headlines would read Torres not for sale. Instead Roy probably has Torres considering his own future.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on October 21, 2010, 12:24:02 PM
Pellegrini was my first choice in the summer so i'd like him or i would take Rijkaard. He'd help settle the spanish players settle back down and hopefully influence LLORENTE, MATA OR/and Navas to sign for us. To be honest at the moment i'd take John Coleman from Accrington Stanley!! A big reds fan
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on October 21, 2010, 02:16:08 PM
Once i heard the ludicrous statement from Roy about Torres going to manure and how he did not dismiss the idea and did not spit and laugh at it, i have now come to a very firm conclusion...
Roy may be very good with the media, but the media did not build the history of liverpool football club...
The media may want an english manager but f*** them they never back LFC anyway...its always glory glory manure, fantastic mercenary chelski etc...oh and lucky liverpool...
not backing up torres against the cheat from SAF(TM) claims was bad enough...
winning 1 in 8 even worse....
finding ourselves in the relegation zone...
but even suggesting that Torres could go to the manure scum is the last straw....

Sorry Roy...actions speak louder than words...you're actions have been useless on the pitch and now they're a disgrace off it...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 21, 2010, 02:20:36 PM
Rijkaard - shurely shum mistake?  Zero interest in him.

Di Matteo - ok, who's having a laugh.  I wouldn't have the lad making the half time cuppa, nevermind being our boss.

hiddink is my choice, manuel pellegrini might be worth a chance, or possibly lure rafa back again (with a temporary appointment til his arrival in the summer).  Stranger things have happened at sea.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 21, 2010, 02:32:52 PM
I'm curious why you don't rate Kelly dude. But if you move Johnson forward he could become a decent winger. He has pace and good ball control. And critically he wouldn't have to tackle that often. Then Kelly could play at RB.
 So you're suggesting we only buy proven players. They will command a premium for that very reason. In short, we didn't have the money so some risks had to be taken. Rafa did buy some good players like Crouch but wouldn't give him a guarantee of first team play. But there must have been more to that because no player can insist on that.
 That was a dream week but unrepresentative of our performance over the season. Everything just clicked from that point until the end of season and 7/10 times our points tally would have been enough for the title. Sadly, you only realise what you had when you don't have it any more.
 
Looking at his early years he did buy some good players using his knowledge of the Spanish league. But his knowledge of the better English players was limited. I think he worked on the principle that if you get enough players then by the law of averages you will get some bargains. Look at the number of players on the books when Roy took charge. he was mortified!

re kelly - I just have not seen enough of him, ASI.  He has rarely played for the first team.  And nothing to date for me, has stood out. 

we also both disagree on Babel.  You reckon he deserves a chance up front.  I reckon he has the first touch of a rapist.

re buying proven players - I am not suggesting that.  What I am saying is that those who slag Rafa's buys, fail to acknowledge that with limited funds for most of his tenure, rafa had to cut his cloth accordingly. 

Having said that, Aquilini, Keane and Johnston were bizarre buys. 

I have always reckoned (and I know Tes does too) that when Rafa fell out with his right hand man, Paka, he seemed to lose touch with the spanish market.  And that really hurt us. 

Indeed I suspect Paca is akin to Peter Taylor's role with Brian Clough.  When you lose half of your managerial team, you are gonna struggle for expertise.


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 21, 2010, 02:36:13 PM
Once i heard the ludicrous statement from Roy about Torres going to manure and how he did not dismiss the idea and did not spit and laugh at it, i have now come to a very firm conclusion...

but even suggesting that Torres could go to the manure scum is the last straw....

Sorry Roy...actions speak louder than words...you're actions have been useless on the pitch and now they're a disgrace off it...

I also felt the same when I saw his quotes re Torres and manure, barticus.

roy is out of his depth, on all levels.  fergie will walk all over him.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 21, 2010, 02:41:05 PM
Watching the champions league post match interviews with Ferguson just highlighted to me where Roy lacks so badly. Last night Fergie dictated the interview, he forced his view on the gathered journalists and had them agreeing with him. They almost seemed afraid to disagree with him. Roy now has created this opening for people to talk about Torres going to United. And even if Torres doesnt go to United all the talk may unsettle him and I really think he will be off.

There is being honest and there is being too honest. Roy should have said Torres is our star player, hes not for sale at any price and he certainly wont be going to United or anywhere else for that matter. Case closed todays headlines would read Torres not for sale. Instead Roy probably has Torres considering his own future.

Juan, 100% accurate in your assessment.  He is a joke!  He's now invited the media to begin speculating about one of our players and we all know how unsettling that can be nowaday's.....promises of more riches and players agents trying to get their piece of the pie etc etc.

Personally I think Torres has had enough, if we don't get a strong manager in soon then he and others will leave.  It's not a matter of if but when imho.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on October 21, 2010, 02:50:16 PM
Torres mind was made up in the summer. He's a goner already. You cant blame him when he's in a team of long ballers shaped by our current manager not Rafa. Everytime he touches the ball nowadays its with his head. So its time to start thinking of a replacement striker aswell as a manager.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on October 21, 2010, 02:52:53 PM
What i also love is that Roy has no say on whether Torres goes or not anyway...
John Henry will have now realised the division between manure and liverpool and wouldn't sanction a move between..it would be a sure fire way of bringing a very black cloud over his ownership at the very start of his tenure!
This is the media destabilising and attacking Liverpool football club, (mainly the Murdoch papers) and Roy should have been canny enough to see the signs...that he didn't means he's gone...perhaps Roy is far more concerned with his friendship with SAF (TM) than any relationship he has with his current employers...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 21, 2010, 02:56:40 PM
His pedigree, or lack of it at this level, is repeatedly being exposed.

The problem with Hiddink is that he would probably only be a very short term appointment, considering his age.
Also, apart from his brief cameo at Chelsea, he's been out of club football a long time and doesn't have the greatest record in his most recent stints.

So the choice is clear - Roberto Di Matteo, then.  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 21, 2010, 03:00:56 PM
What i also love is that Roy has no say on whether Torres goes or not anyway...
John Henry will have now realised the division between manure and liverpool and wouldn't sanction a move between..it would be a sure fire way of bringing a very black cloud over his ownership at the very start of his tenure!
This is the media destabilising and attacking Liverpool football club, (mainly the Murdoch papers) and Roy should have been canny enough to see the signs...that he didn't means he's gone...perhaps Roy is far more concerned with his friendship with SAF (TM) than any relationship he has with his current employers...

That's why nobody within the game has a bad word to say about him. 'Nice guy', 'gentleman' 'well respected' blah, blah. He's all those things because his teams aren't a threat to anyone.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 21, 2010, 03:02:03 PM
So the choice is clear - Roberto Di Matteo, then.  ;D

Careful Tes, crazy talk like that will get you put away into Arkham Asylum  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 21, 2010, 03:03:10 PM
 :D

Di Matteo and his right hand man, Dennis Wise - let's revive the bootroom.

And Tommy Cooper as new managing director.



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 21, 2010, 03:03:53 PM
:D

Di Matteo and his right hand man, Dennis Wise - let's revive the bootroom.

And Tommy Cooper as new managing director.

Your not too far behind Tes there Dude  :P
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 21, 2010, 03:10:56 PM
Your not too far behind Tes there Dude  :P

 :D   

we are on the same hymnsheet, gurdeep.

reminds me - I must reassemble my movie thread (Liverpool, the movie - Yanks, Banks & Tanks at Anfield).  The pc crashed before I could post it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 21, 2010, 09:51:07 PM
Just saw Roys after game interview. As always Roy was dignified. I didnt hear any Torres style slip ups. Anyway to my point whether you want him to stay or not what he did make perfectly clear is that he has no intention of ever walking away. Obviously circumstances can change but at the moment if a change of manager does happen it looks as though John W Henry will have to do some firing first.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 21, 2010, 10:10:39 PM
Just saw Roys after game interview. As always Roy was dignified. I didnt hear any Torres style slip ups. Anyway to my point whether you want him to stay or not what he did make perfectly clear is that he has no intention of ever walking away. Obviously circumstances can change but at the moment if a change of manager does happen it looks as though John W Henry will have to do some firing first.
Juan,
Whilst I'm reasonably happy with the performance tonight I don't think it changes anything regarding Roy's future at Anfield. The league game against a forceful Blackburn will be difficult and nothing less than a win will take the pressure off him. Even if we do win there is still the problem of Reina and Torres being unhappy as Jim reported last night. We simply cannot afford to lose those two so unless their issues are resolved he still remains likely to be removed sooner than later.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 22, 2010, 12:26:05 AM
:D

Di Matteo and his right hand man, Dennis Wise - let's revive the bootroom.

And Tommy Cooper as new managing director.

Denis Wise. Never, ever, in the entire history of mankind, has a surname been so inappropriate.

In 5 years time Di Matteo will be a star man. ('And you can take that to the bank, and smoke it') :D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 22, 2010, 12:27:40 AM
Your not too far behind Tes there Dude  :P

You saying I'm older than Dude?   :'(  :D :D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 22, 2010, 12:44:37 AM
Juan,
Whilst I'm reasonably happy with the performance tonight I don't think it changes anything regarding Roy's future at Anfield. The league game against a forceful Blackburn will be difficult and nothing less than a win will take the pressure off him. Even if we do win there is still the problem of Reina and Torres being unhappy as Jim reported last night. We simply cannot afford to lose those two so unless their issues are resolved he still remains likely to be removed sooner than later.

Agreed ASI.

It in no way takes the pressure off Hodgson.

A resounding 3 or 4 nil win at Blackburn would be a start but at this stage I think its only a matter of time for Roy. Its interesting to hear Carra say the players are behind Roy, could that be because Roy guarantees him his place.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 22, 2010, 12:46:05 AM
I pretty much agree with the lot.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/football-news/2010/10/21/comment-why-new-liverpool-fc-owners-must-end-roy-s-wretched-reign-55578-27522787/

Why new Liverpool FC owners must end Roy's wretched reign

Oct 21 2010 By Ben Thornley, Head of Sport

BILL SHANKLY once said: “Aim for the  sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor”.
It’s little wonder then that after  appointing Roy Hodgson   Liverpool find themselves in the Premier League basement.
Now the club is rid of Tom Hicks, George Gillett and their debts,  Hodgson is the greatest limiting factor on the Reds’ ambitions.
His disastrous Anfield reign must  be ended before Sunday’s visit of Blackburn Rovers,  a side whose experience under the Londoner should serve as a cautionary tale to the  Liverpool board.
Martin Broughton, Christian Purslow and Ian Ayre were rightly feted for their  role in ousting Hicks and Gillett. However, their first major collective act – replacing Rafa Benitez with Hodgson – is threatening to undermine all their  hard  work.
Briefing the press against  Benitez last season, a member of the Reds  hierarchy  described the Spaniard as a man who never took responsibility  for his mistakes.
Now’s the moment, though,  for the same man  to take ownership of a massive blunder of his own.
It has been suggested that it is not the ‘Liverpool Way’ to sack a boss so soon, despite Hodgson making the worst start by a Reds manager since the 1920s.
Those same people, however, mistake the club’s fabled unwritten code for inertia – just as David Moores did for 16 blundering years.

If the new owners are serious about restoring Liverpool to former glories they must act swiftly.


The new manager needs time to assess the weaknesses of his squad in readiness  for the  January transfer window.
And even his greatest supporters can not  believe Hodgson is the man for the long haul at the Reds.
The longer he  is left in charge the more time it will take for the next boss to  undo the damage.

If the  63-year-old is given until Christmas, as has been suggested, at best Liverpool stand to loose their star men – at worse their Premier League status.

He  was the wrong  choice  from the start and his appointment was a sign  of reduced ambitions.
And the most dangerous thing you can do at an underachieving club  is to lower sights further – something which Hodgson has   continually attempted to do.
From being a team looking to challenge for a place in the Champions League, Liverpool’s manager is now  talking about avoiding relegation.
His sympathisers,  who claim he should be granted more time  having only had eight league games in  charge, are missing the point.
It’s no small achievement turning Liverpool into a bottom two side  after that number of fixtures.
The former UAE boss’ strength has always been realising the potential of ordinary players – perhaps that’s why he’s tried to sign so many of them.
But he also appears to do a mean line in making stars who once lit-up the Champions League look like Championship players in waiting.
And what is it that those urging patience are waiting to see from Hodgson’s realised vision for Liverpool?
This is  a man who has overseen just  one  Premier League away win in 17 months – and that was against  Portsmouth – and has never won a trophy outside of Scandinavia.
Tellingly, Liverpool’s greatest performance under Hodgson was in the Premier League opener at home to Arsenal.
The longer he has had to integrate his ideas on the squad the worse they have become.
Using  the quality of the players he has at his disposal  as an excuse for the Reds’ poor form just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
Of the players who were  available to Hodgson in the humiliating 2-1 defeat to   Blackpool at Anfield, eight played  in the 4-1 victory at Old Trafford in 2009 (it would have been nine had Fabio Aurelio been fit).
And since then  internationals Joe Cole,  Glen Johnson and Raul Merieles  have been added to the squad.
Liverpool’s playing staff may not be good enough to break back into the top four but managers like Ian Holloway and Roberto Di Matteo would happily swap resources with Hodgson.
Under a different manager  Sunday’s derby clash, coming days after the completion of NESV’s takeover, would have been the perfect setting for Liverpool to relaunch their season.
Hodgson, however, seems to drain players of passion rather than fill them with inspiration.
After the dismal 2-0 defeat at Goodison, it’s become increasingly apparent that he has lost a large section of the dressing room.
An overwhelming  majority of the club’s supporters have certainly abandoned him.
Significantly, it’s not just the  West Country kranks who plague radio phone-ins calling for Hodgson’s head – it’s the Kop.
And there are few better judges  in the game or fans as patient as the Anfield faithful, who continued to chant the names of Benitez and Gerard Houllier right  to the end.
Comparisons have been made with the slow starts made by both the Frenchman and the Spaniard, but after eight games both coaches had made a noticeable impact.
Houllier brought organisation and a defensive resolve missing during the  Roy Evans years, while Liverpool began to play with more fluidity and press higher up the pitch under Benitez.
There hasn’t even been a glimmer of hope under Hodgson that things may improve.

The Kop recognise he  is hopelessly out of his depth,  like a man who has spent his life flying model aeroplanes   but  now finds himself behind the controls of a jumbo jet he’s tilted into a nosedive.


The Londoner may protest about being one of the most respected coaches in Europe, but what he means is that he’s the   man UEFA call on to give a seminar on the 4-4-2 formation.
Only once before, however, has the phone ever rang when  one of the continent’s elite clubs had a vacancy.
A third-place finish in charge at Inter Milan is the sum total of Hodgson’s achievements at the highest level.
Nothing else in his  CV even begins to suggest  he has the calibre of a Liverpool manager or the ability to cope with the huge demands of the job – just five years ago, he was struggling to guide Norweigian outfit FK Vikings beyond Rhyl in the Uefa Cup.
Seemingly, securing seventh place  in 2009 and a run to the Europa League final the following year secured him one of the most prized roles in football.
As impressive has achievements were at Fulham, though, at no time in Liverpool’s past would they have even put him  on the club’s radar.  It’s the kind of mistake you’d expect the English FA to make, not Liverpool.
George Burley led newly promoted Ipswich to fifth in 2001, Walter Smith took Rangers to the Europa League final  in 2009 and Dennis Wise defied the odds to reach the FA Cup final with Milwall in 2004 – all accomplishments on a par with Hodgson’s.
Yet there would be rioting on Merseyside if any of those managers were even considered for the role.
Ending Hodgson’s reign now would probably be in his best interests too, allowing him to salvage his reputation with his  friends in the media  portraying the dismissal as the knee-jerk reaction of Liverpool’s new American owners.
It’s painful watching a man slowly lose his dignity in the manner Hodgson is with each passing press conference.
At least in the short term Kenny Dalglish should be given the opportunity to revive the Reds’ fortunes.
Even in a caretaker role the Liverpool legend’s appointment  would galvanise the club,  generating  a level of excitement among supporters that could only inspire the players.
And if his audition didn’t work out, Dalglish would be the first man to admit it.
Unlike the current boss, who still believes he was harshly sacked by Blackburn. This  despite leaving them bottom of the table after 15 games and   out-spending all but Manchester United in the summer of 1998.
If Liverpool have that kind of money  at their disposal this January, it can’t be  Hodgson spending it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 22, 2010, 09:34:40 AM
Agreed ASI.

It in no way takes the pressure off Hodgson.

A resounding 3 or 4 nil win at Blackburn would be a start but at this stage I think its only a matter of time for Roy. Its interesting to hear Carra say the players are behind Roy, could that be because Roy guarantees him his place.

I'm waiting for the day when a high profile player comes out and states 'the manager's a total retard who wouldn't know his bottom from his elbow, and that my kid's pet goldfish could do a better job'.

It would be a start, but like the Man City defeat wasn't a problem in isolation, a resounding win with flowing football wouldn't herald a recovery either. I agree with you Juan, that the clock is ticking on Roy.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 22, 2010, 12:58:34 PM
Awrite Tes and Juan, quick question. Is there anything Roy could do to see people like you have a change of heart? Winning Europa League and finishing 6th would deffo be quite an improvement compared to Rafa's last, if not his last 3, seasons. Quite confident that achievment wouldn't satisfy you two. Would finishing 4th, win the EL and reach the Cup final be enough?  I'm very curious to hear your opinion on what the man has to actully achieve to be rewarded with some support.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 22, 2010, 01:09:37 PM
Hodgson - I'll never quit

Liverpool boss Roy Hodgson insists he is at Anfield for the long haul after coming under pressure in the job.

The former Fulham boss took over at Anfield in the summer but has overseen a poor start to the domestic campaign, with the Reds taking just six points from their opening eight games to sit second from bottom of the table.

There was speculation before Thursday night's goalless Europa League draw in Napoli that he was preparing to stand down but Hodgson insisted nothing could be further from his mind.

Instead, the veteran boss insists he is a fighter and he will battle to turn around the fortunes of the club on the pitch.
Ridiculous websites

Hodgson told Sky Sports News: "You read these ridiculous websites that we have and resignation has never once entered my thought and, what's more, never will.

"I pride myself on being a bit of a fighter, I pride myself on being able to stand the bad times.

"I've had a lot of good times recently - Barclays Manager of the Year last year, great accolades here and there and everywhere - I realise in football you don't get the accolades all the time, sometimes you have to bite the bullet and fine.

"It disappointments me that there are so many ridiculous websites, every day someone tells me that there is a new rumour about something that's supposed to happen and I think it's rather unfair that serious people use those rumours and then ask me questions because I shouldn't even be answering that question as it's literally never entered my mind and, what's more, won't enter my mind.

"I'm here for the long haul, I'm here to do a good job, I came believing I can help Liverpool rebuild and get going again, the players are very much behind everything we're doing."

Progress

He added: "So as far as I'm concerned it's work in progress, it's problematic at the moment because it's work in progress at the wrong end of the table, it's problematic because we're losing and not winning but there's only one thing to do with that - get out and play each week, play better, get the wins, get up the table and then you'll see my smiling face more often than my scowling one."

Frank Rijkaard has been backed with Sky Bet as a possible replacement for Hodgson but the Liverpool boss said such speculation could not concern him.

"It doesn't bother me one little bit," he said.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6459242,00.html (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6459242,00.html)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 22, 2010, 01:16:35 PM
"I've had a lot of good times recently - Barclays Manager of the Year last year, great accolades here and there and everywhere - I realise in football you don't get the accolades all the time, sometimes you have to bite the bullet and fine.

Well done Woy, Barclays manager of the Year certainly qualifies you for the job!




"I'm here for the long haul, I'm here to do a good job, I came believing I can help Liverpool rebuild and get going again, the players are very much behind everything we're doing."

Oh feck, long haul.....bye bye Torres, Reina.  Good luck to you both!

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2010, 01:30:39 PM
Denis Wise. Never, ever, in the entire history of mankind, has a surname been so inappropriate.

In 5 years time Di Matteo will be a star man. ('And you can take that to the bank, and smoke it') :D

you might be right, Tes. 

I googled there now for him.  I see in today's papers, the lad is trying to bring in the sardines hay before the winter strikes.

the 40-year-old reckons surviving the upcoming winter period before the January transfer window opens will be like buckling down for the cold, dark months if you live on a farm.

The Baggies boss said: 'It's like when you are a farmer.

'You want to bring as much hay into your stall as possible for a long winter.

'That's what we are trying to do.'
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 22, 2010, 03:16:19 PM
Awrite Tes and Juan, quick question. Is there anything Roy could do to see people like you have a change of heart? Winning Europa League and finishing 6th would deffo be quite an improvement compared to Rafa's last, if not his last 3, seasons. Quite confident that achievment wouldn't satisfy you two. Would finishing 4th, win the EL and reach the Cup final be enough?  I'm very curious to hear your opinion on what the man has to actully achieve to be rewarded with some support.

There you go again dragging Benitez into it. What's that got to do with anything we may or may not feel about Roy Hodgson? 'People like us'? What would that be then? Just because we're not happy with the current situation. The performances, the way the manager is constantly dragging down expectations, as if they need dragging down.

Roy's wonderful isn't he? All hail Roy. And I promise not to complain about the sand getting in my eyes.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2010, 03:27:07 PM
Is there anything Roy could do to see people like you have a change of heart? Winning Europa League and finishing 6th would deffo be quite an improvement compared to Rafa's last, if not his last 3, seasons.

do you follow much football?

since when has the europa league been worth more than tuppence?  It's up there with the league cup..

your assessment is bizarre.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 22, 2010, 03:40:45 PM
Martin, you like the guy, you see no problems, you're convinced that everything will turn out OK come May. That's fine. We accept that's your opinion and have no problem either with the opinion or your holding of it. Some of us don't see it the same way. Where's the problem? There's no agenda. We're not blind or have boarded up our minds to anything positive that could happen for which Roy Hodgson should be granted his fair share of credit.
Take it for what it actually is, there's nothing more sinister lurking anywhere else.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2010, 05:30:32 PM
Take it for what it actually is, there's nothing more sinister lurking anywhere else.

I am actually Rafa.  And I won't rest til I am back in charge at Anfield.

And the spaghetti isn't up to much here.  I can't wait to again get a good curried chip on Bold Street.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 22, 2010, 06:54:36 PM
do you follow much football?

since when has the europa league been worth more than tuppence?  It's up there with the league cup..

your assessment is bizarre.

I remember back in the day on the offal when ppl heralded winning the CC as pretty much the equivalent of winning the CL, which, by their logic, was proof in itself Houllier was the right man. So forgive me for thinking winning the EL would at least count.

Tes and Dude, I'm sorry for my tone. It's just that I'm shocked by the anti-Roy discourse that managed to evolve and establish in less than quarter of a season. I actually am not sure whether I like thet guy or not, it's more breaking what I think is a holy principle I find upsetting. I was hanged to dry for not supporting the manager of LFC when I criticised Rafa and GH even though it was blatantly obvious they weren't the right way forward.

I apologise for the harsh words above.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 22, 2010, 07:27:18 PM
Martin, I think you kindof miss the point....to begin with what fans want to see is us challenging in the league 1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th whatever....nobody expected us to win it this season...at the moment Hodgson has us in the relegation zone....one of the worlds best strikers wandering round the pitch like a zombie and no fire or ambition in our play....

On the point of Silverware, it's every Liverpool managers job to win it so yeah we want some silverware...

There's no point in lowering the bar of what it means to be Liverpool manager just because Roy's a nice old man. He needs to prove to the fans that he's the right man for the job in the NEW REALITY we find ourselves in under the current ownership, otherwise the thing to do is write off the entire season, allow the nice old man remain in charge and inevitably pick up the pieces (and repair the damage done to the club) further down the line.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on October 22, 2010, 07:49:37 PM
Just how has Roy earned and preserved this 'nice guy' tag - and since when has it been worth shed? Was Cloughie a nice guy? He was different class as a manager - Mourhino isnt a nice guy, but he's a manager who can apply tactics and motivate players. Th most successful manager in our league is anything but a nice guy. I don't care if our gaffer is a curmudgeonly creep who openly detests the entire human race, just as long as he shows skill, nerve and at least a modicum of respect for the traditional Liverpool manager's rapport with the Kop.  Some seem to think the Liverpool Way is to blindly support a manager no matter what the performance or results of the side - that is blinkered and dangerous.  This man was appointed by Christian Purslow, with the backing of hicks and Gillet with the enthusiastic laughter of the london media. So far, he has shown he knows nothing about the Liverpool way - pressure on the ball, passion and pride in the team, pass and move, unity (and handling yourself in a dignified and respectful way)- and he needs to go. He is a symptom of the cancer we hope NESV have the courage to excise.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 22, 2010, 08:05:39 PM
I'm shocked by the anti-Roy discourse that managed to evolve and establish in less than quarter of a season. I actually am not sure whether I like thet guy or not, it's more breaking what I think is a holy principle I find upsetting.

2nd from bottom not shocking enough???

Holy principle???  You would risk the club geting relegated or losing it's top players all on the basis of a holy principle!  Sorry but I find this attitude extremely strange.  Initially I thought your first post on the subject of Woy was quite commendable but as this topic has been discussed further I can't but help think that you have some sort of hidden agenda here. 

99.999% of supporters can see this guy is not a Liverpool manager!  I'm afraid you are that 0.001% that cannot.

I was hanged to dry for not supporting the manager of LFC when I criticised Rafa and GH even though it was blatantly obvious they weren't the right way forward.

Must have been glaringly obvious they were not the right way foward.  Especially after their respective trophy hauls.  You are taking the p**s.....I suspect you must be a toffee nose.


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 22, 2010, 08:07:43 PM
Great Post Clem, wish I'd written it!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 22, 2010, 08:10:29 PM
Martin, I think you kindof miss the point....to begin with what fans want to see is us challenging in the league 1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th whatever....nobody expected us to win it this season...at the moment Hodgson has us in the relegation zone....one of the worlds best strikers wandering round the pitch like a zombie and no fire or ambition in our play....

We obviously disagree where this club is after 12 years of mismanagement under GH and Rafa. A few cup runs were all they could muster. Laying a foundation, a spirit, an identity from which this club could reap the rewards for years on end in the PL was quite above their level. But those are values people like you will never understand, hence why you're kicking and screaming like a spoilt child less than a quarter into the season "because you had other preferences" (since fornicating when was discussing Liverpool about personal preferences). WE HAVEN'T fornicating WON IT IN 20 YEARS SO WHAT IS IT THAT GIVES US A RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT OURSELVES AS GOD GIVEN CHALLENGERS????????? Is it that hard to take on board, really? Is it? Why?

Geez, I'm getting old, don't I?

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 22, 2010, 08:15:58 PM
This man was appointed by Christian Purslow, with the backing of hicks and Gillet with the enthusiastic laughter of the london media. So far, he has shown he knows nothing about the Liverpool way - pressure on the ball, passion and pride in the team, pass and move, unity

Good point Clem, those were the trademarks of the way GH and Rafa had us play. It's a fornicating mystery Purslow had Rafa fired when we played such entertaining footy dropping points to the worst side in the league, getting humiliated at home against Championship fodder, looking clueless and out of ideas 6 fornicating years into that incompetent tools tenure.

You talk about the Liverpool way but wasn't even born when its meaning started to fade among glory hunting Liverpool fans. You're clueless mate. Sorry but there really is no other way to put it. What gave you away? Your pathetic reference to Mourinho.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 22, 2010, 08:39:52 PM
Martin, I'm not going to respond to you anymore, i find your attitude to be appalling! Every fan is entitled to their opinion about the club, that's why we're fans! There's no analysis, logic or insight in your posts, sweeping generalisations that mean nothing and then all of a sudden Roy Hodgson is the answer! Well forgive me for begging to differ on that point.....maybe if we'd gotten rid of both GH & RB after a quarter of a season we wouldn't be in this (what you call) mess, kindof makes your whatever you call it "holy principle" seem as preposterous as anyone with a brain cell would be able to tell you....
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 22, 2010, 08:48:12 PM
I'm sorry Ed I hurt your feelings. I'm sorry I stand by our manager despite a disppointing start to the season. I'm sorry it offends you to call it a holy principle to support the club's manager. I didn't mean to hurt you Ed, really I didn't.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 22, 2010, 09:06:20 PM
I'm sorry Ed I hurt your feelings.

Goading is neither nice or clever.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: wittsy on October 22, 2010, 09:22:55 PM
I wouldn't bother with repeating myself on the subject. Martin has made his mind up and thats fair enough, reminds me of someone on here a couple of months ago  ::)

I've got no problem with someone sticking to their gun so will stick to other subjects from now on lol We can argue this out until we nearing our pension age but we'll still never agree.

Jas
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 22, 2010, 09:30:09 PM
Which reminds me of something. Anyone seen C.J lately? In fact since a certain Spaniard left.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 22, 2010, 09:54:55 PM
Cheers Gurdeep!  :)

Just read Tomkins latest piece....

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/10/end-of-an-error-why-roy-has-to-go/
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 22, 2010, 10:35:07 PM
Cheers Gurdeep!  :)

Just read Tomkins latest piece....

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/10/end-of-an-error-why-roy-has-to-go/

An excellent article.  Tomkins bang on the money yet again.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2010, 12:10:22 AM
Yeah, I respect his views and he normally backs them up with some sort of data.....

There's certainly a danger of fans blindly following notions of the "Liverpool Way" in the 21st century. David Moores is a good example of someone whose heart was maybe in the right place but got the club into a serious, serious amount of trouble by failing to understand the modern worlds of both Commerce and Football. I have respect for the traditions of our club (that's why I follow us!) but not to the point of stupidity.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2010, 12:17:55 AM
Anfield divide! Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard lead fight to save boss Roy Hodgson from Liverpool revolt

Last updated at 10:46 PM on 22nd October 2010


Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher are at the heart of efforts to stifle growing unrest in the Liverpool dressing-room about the capabilities of under-fire manager Roy Hodgson.

Should West Ham claim at least a point against Newcastle today, Liverpool will be rock bottom of the Barclays Premier League before Blackburn's crucial visit to Anfield tomorrow.

It is understood that several Liverpool stars - including striker Fernando Torres and goalkeeper Pepe Reina - are questioning whether Hodgson has what it takes to lead the Anfield club away from the relegation zone.

However, Sportsmail has been told that captain Gerrard and central defender Carragher believe the former Fulham manager should be given time to turn things around.

Gerrard and Carragher are the two most influential players at Anfield and are understandably concerned about a season that has plunged into disarray.

It is understood that they have personally told some of their teammates that they should keep faith with Hodgson's training methods and tactics, at least until Christmas.

Hodgson felt confident enough yesterday to laugh off claims he has fallen out with Liverpool's £21million record signing Torres.

'It's sad really that we should have to put up with things like this,' he said. 'People write the most ridiculous things on these websites, like I'm having fights with Fernando Torres. Just ridiculous.

'Someone told me yesterday that they had me falling out with the rest of my staff, and then they had me resigning. I wouldn't take it too seriously, if I were you, I really wouldn't. The dressing-room, staff, everyone around the place is 100 per cent solid behind what we are trying to do.

'I am here to try to get Liverpool back to where they belong, but I can't do it overnight, when you consider what I walked into. I met the owners, and they made it clear they thought I had inherited a really bad situation but that I was the right man to put it right.

'I would agree that I am the right man to put it right. After three-and-a- half months, I haven't suddenly become someone who has lost all confidence in himself. What I have found is that I have taken on a difficult job at a club that needs a lot of sorting out, and unfortunately I haven't had a good start.

'But I had a bad start at Fulham, and we were favourites to go down with four games left. You have periods like that in your life that you have to live through. I can't say I am happy about it, but it's nothing a few victories wouldn't change.

'It wouldn't stop websites putting out ridiculous stories, but I will have to learn to live with that. It probably comes with the territory of working at Liverpool.'

Hodgson has also had to contend with reports that his job is about to be offered to Frank Rijkaard, but Sportsmail understands the former Barcelona coach is in no hurry to return to management after leaving Galatasaray on Wednesday.

Family matters are taking precedence at his home in Amsterdam, after a week that has included the death of his father and birth of his first child with his current partner, and he is unlikely to consider  another managerial post until the new year.

Blackburn counterpart Sam Allardyce tried to ease the pressure on Hodgson by telling his old foe Rafa Benitez to accept his share of the blame for Liverpool's decline.

Allardyce, who often clashed with the Spaniard, said: 'As a manager, we live in the world of perception rather than reality. I feel for Roy and he's taking the brunt of the criticism, but given time he will get it right.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1323009/Anfield-divide-Jamie-Carragher-Steven-Gerrard-lead-fight-save-boss-Roy-Hodgson-Liverpool-revolt.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1323009/Anfield-divide-Jamie-Carragher-Steven-Gerrard-lead-fight-save-boss-Roy-Hodgson-Liverpool-revolt.html)

I know it's the Daily Fail, so gritters at the ready, but let's hope there isn't a grain of truth in it.

If there is, then sell Carra and Gerrard and let Martinmarx go on a free also.  ;D 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2010, 12:25:39 AM
If there's any religious bods in here, on Sunday morning please prayer for a win against Blackburn. I really can't cope with idea of Fat Sham winning at Anfield. We'd never hear the end of it. It would be worse than tinnitus.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2010, 12:30:33 AM
After Liverpool's first three League games, Roy Hodgson said: "Tables are of no interest until at least 10 games have been played." After eight matches, Liverpool are second from bottom.

So to be fair to him I'll refrain from commenting directly on Mr Hodgson until after the Bolton game.
No, actually I'll wait until after game 11 - against Chelsea. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 23, 2010, 01:07:14 AM

Just read Tomkins latest piece....

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/10/end-of-an-error-why-roy-has-to-go/

Cheers for the link Ed
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 23, 2010, 01:22:07 AM
Anfield divide! Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard lead fight to save boss Roy Hodgson from Liverpool revolt

Last updated at 10:46 PM on 22nd October 2010

'I am here to try to get Liverpool back to where they belong, but I can't do it overnight, when you consider what I walked into. I met the owners, and they made it clear they thought I had inherited a really bad situation but that I was the right man to put it right.

Is he for f*cking real. He inherited a team that underachieved last season and finished 7th in the league. He added to that team and now he has them lying in 19th and he is complaining what he "walked into".

Yeah any team with Pepe Reina, Daniel Agger, Martin Skrtel, Dirk Kuyt, Steve Gerrard, Raul Meireles, Joe Cole, Fernando Torres and 10 other internationals must be a real nightmare to manage. We should be grateful to avoid relegation.

This guy is done. Mr Henry do the honorable thing and put us all out of our misery. Hes tried, hes failed just sack him now and let everyone else get on with their lives.

As I previously stated why wouldnt Carragher want Roy to stay because it means he will probably be the mainstay of our defense for the next two and a half seasons if he does.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 23, 2010, 01:25:30 AM
An excellent article.  Tomkins bang on the money yet again.

Agreed Gurdeep I think hes said what most fans think.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 23, 2010, 07:05:09 AM
Found this link on RAWK.  More damning evidence that Woy's methods are taking us backwards....fast!

http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/10/22/two-derbies-two-manager/ (http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/10/22/two-derbies-two-manager/)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 23, 2010, 09:35:22 AM
Found this link on RAWK.  More damning evidence that Woy's methods are taking us backwards....fast!

http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/10/22/two-derbies-two-manager/ (http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/10/22/two-derbies-two-manager/)

What a damning indictment of Roy's tactics. Only an imbicile would continue with them. He is surely gone if he persists with them.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 23, 2010, 10:03:58 AM
I know the BBC's football gossip column isn't the most reliable source but if these two snippets are true it shows the gulf between Manure, Chelsea et al and Liverpool...

Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson has been promised £60m to spend on new players before next season with Inter Milan midfielder Wesley Sneijder and Wolfsburg striker Edin Dzeko top of his wish list.

United are also battling it out with Tottenham and Arsenal to sign Bolton's £15m-rated defender Gary Cahill.

Liverpool have joined Wigan and Blackpool in the race for Auxerre's Slovenia international midfielder Valter Birsa.

So there you have it. We're competing with the likes of Wigan and Blackpool for players instead of the top 4.  >:(
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 23, 2010, 10:11:11 AM
Roy's gone back to defensive mode again with this statement on team fitness...

"Jamie is a centre back and that is where I think he should be playing. I don't like having to move him to full-back but it would be wrong to put young Kelly into the team and leave someone like Kyrgiakos or Skrtel out. We need the experience."

Why is it wrong to play a lad who was good enough under Rafa to play in a CL game but not good enough against a mediocre team at home??? How do you get experience if you don't play? If Kelly was good enough on Thursday against the 4th palce team in Italy surely he's good enough against Blackburn? Arrgghh!!! :o
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 23, 2010, 03:27:24 PM
Roy's gone back to defensive mode again with this statement on team fitness...

"Jamie is a centre back and that is where I think he should be playing. I don't like having to move him to full-back but it would be wrong to put young Kelly into the team and leave someone like Kyrgiakos or Skrtel out. We need the experience."

Why is it wrong to play a lad who was good enough under Rafa to play in a CL game but not good enough against a mediocre team at home??? How do you get experience if you don't play? If Kelly was good enough on Thursday against the 4th palce team in Italy surely he's good enough against Blackburn? Arrgghh!!! :o

Problem is, he wasn't good enough. He was a total disaster that almost cost us the point in the dying seconds of the game. Can you not see he's not good enough?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 23, 2010, 03:32:24 PM
I wouldn't bother with repeating myself on the subject. Martin has made his mind up and thats fair enough, reminds me of someone on here a couple of months ago  ::)

I've got no problem with someone sticking to their gun so will stick to other subjects from now on lol We can argue this out until we nearing our pension age but we'll still never agree.

Jas

There's every chance in the world we will finally agree, just not after 8 games.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 23, 2010, 03:32:45 PM
Problem is, he wasn't good enough. He was a total disaster that almost cost us the point in the dying seconds of the game. Can you not see he's not good enough?
You have very polarised opinions don't you Martin? I don't class a player making one small mistake "a total disaster". Using your logic Babel and Ngog would also be total diasters as they failed to score from decent opportunities.

Besides, for the previous 89 minutes Kelly did pretty well in my eyes so no, I don't agree with you. Given his limited experience in the first team I think he's aquitted himself pretty well.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 23, 2010, 03:41:39 PM
You have very polarised opinions don't you Martin? I don't class a player making one small mistake "a total disaster". Using your logic Babel and Ngog would also be total diasters as they failed to score from decent opportunities.

Besides, for the previous 89 minutes Kelly did pretty well in my eyes so no, I don't agree with you. Given his limited experience in the first team I think he's aquitted himself pretty well.

But it wasn't a singel mistake, it was throughout the game. Watch it again and you'll see he didn't get virtually one thing right. I remember people calling Traore a "great" fullback although anyone with a yota of understanding of this came he was hardly good enough for the Championship.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2010, 03:45:41 PM
Tes and Dude, I'm sorry for my tone. It's just that I'm shocked by the anti-Roy discourse that managed to evolve and establish in less than quarter of a season. I actually am not sure whether I like thet guy or not, it's more breaking what I think is a holy principle I find upsetting. I was hanged to dry for not supporting the manager of LFC when I criticised Rafa and GH even though it was blatantly obvious they weren't the right way forward.

I apologise for the harsh words above.

thanks for the apology, Martin.

it's ok to have differing opinions.......the problem is when someone thinks they are the sole purveyor of truth and then lambast others views.

all that any of us express are mere personal opinions. 

e.g. I am a big steven gerrard fan (Juan isn't)......ASI doesn't rate Babel.......Juan can't stand the thought of Dalglish being our boss........Tes is a big harry redknapp fan.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2010, 03:57:05 PM
e.g. I am a big steven gerrard fan (Juan isn't)......ASI doesn't rate Babel.......Juan can't stand the thought of Dalglish being our boss........Tes is a big harry redknapp fan.

Dude is the resident impersonator. Tom Hicks is his current favourite.  :D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 23, 2010, 03:59:04 PM
But it wasn't a singel mistake, it was throughout the game. Watch it again and you'll see he didn't get virtually one thing right. I remember people calling Traore a "great" fullback although anyone with a yota of understanding of this came he was hardly good enough for the Championship.

I won't be watching the game again. But if he was as bad as you say then he would have been subbed wouldn't he? I don't recognise his performance as you describe it.

I never rated Traore but he did clear off the line in the 2005 CL Final so for that I will be grateful he played.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 23, 2010, 03:59:53 PM
e.g. I am a big steven gerrard fan (Juan isn't)......ASI doesn't rate Babel.......Juan can't stand the thought of Dalglish being our boss........Tes is a big harry redknapp fan.

Lol dude lol.

You forgot to mention my huge admiration for Hicks, why Tes feels Torres was never worth 20 million and how ASI thinks Johnson is the most under rated right back in the country.

If only everyone could be as happy with Rupert Murdoch and the cost of their Sky connection as you. You and your Sky boxes all over the house.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2010, 04:02:35 PM
Dude is the resident impersonator. Tom Hicks is his current favourite.  :D
:D
accused of being a masochist, I often turn up at fancy dress parties in liverpool and southport, dressed as Tom Hicks.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 23, 2010, 04:02:59 PM
thanks for the apology, Martin.

it's ok to have differing opinions.......the problem is when someone thinks they are the sole purveyor of truth and then lambast others views.

all that any of us express are mere personal opinions. 

e.g. I am a big steven gerrard fan (Juan isn't)......ASI doesn't rate Babel.......Juan can't stand the thought of Dalglish being our boss........Tes is a big harry redknapp fan.

I don't mean to represent the truth in any way. It's just that I really believe we, as fans, should stand behind the manager through the hard times as well. I ain't happy how it's panned out thus far, but right now Roy can't even try to be positive or straightforward before his word's been twisted in the media and links to what he allegedly said appear in this forum and elsewhere to ridicule him. I think that's going beyond being critical of the manager and his decision. There's another word for that and it doesn't start with "when you walk, through a storm...".  That's my truth tell me yours, or something to that effect.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 23, 2010, 04:04:19 PM
I won't be watching the game again. But if he was as bad as you say then he would have been subbed wouldn't he? I don't recognise his performance as you describe it.

I never rated Traore but he did clear off the line in the 2005 CL Final so for that I will be grateful he played.

Whether he cleared it or just by accident came in the way of the ball will be cause for discussion.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2010, 04:05:24 PM
I remember people calling Traore a "great" fullback although anyone with a yota of understanding of this came he was hardly good enough for the Championship.

Martin, you keep some strange company. Actually, you're the only one to have the person, and maybe his multiple personalities, who held that opinion.  ;)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2010, 04:06:30 PM
You forgot to mention my huge admiration for Hicks, why Tes feels Torres was never worth 20 million and how ASI thinks Johnson is the most under rated right back in the country.

If only everyone could be as happy with Rupert Murdoch and the cost of their Sky connection as you. You and your Sky boxes all over the house.

 :D  aye, ASI is big on the young lad, Johnston.

Can't beat Rupert Murdoch (well not legally anyway) and Sky.  Well worth every penny tenner.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 23, 2010, 04:08:56 PM
I don't mean to represent the truth in any way. It's just that I really believe we, as fans, should stand behind the manager through the hard times as well.

Martin I agree with you to an extent but where I differ is that I only believe you should stand behind a manager if you believe what they are actually doing is right.

It would be wrong of us to back a manager if behind it all we dont actually believe in him or his methods. That way you would be asking us to support somebody who we believe is actually harming our club.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2010, 04:12:16 PM
I don't mean to represent the truth in any way. It's just that I really believe we, as fans, should stand behind the manager through the hard times as well. I ain't happy how it's panned out thus far, but right now Roy can't even try to be positive or straightforward before his word's been twisted in the media and links to what he allegedly said appear in this forum and elsewhere to ridicule him. I think that's going beyond being critical of the manager and his decision. There's another word for that and it doesn't start with "when you walk, through a storm...".  That's my truth tell me yours, or something to that effect.

No one on here is ridiculing him. Disagreeing or seeing it differently, commenting on how it reflects, both on him and the club, is not ridiculing him. Seeing the events on the pitch differently to how he is seeing them (at least publicly) and commenting on those differences, is not ridiculing him.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 23, 2010, 04:18:03 PM
But Juan, with that way of conditioning support Rafa should've recieved the same treatment Roy is now at least 3 years ago. For the last 3 years Rafa was found out, pretty much any team in the PL knew what it took to take points from Liverpool, even at Anfield. It's the double standards I think I have trouble accepting here. Rafa got chance after chance after chance to prove he wasn't taking this club forward and funnily enough he took every single opportunity handed to him for 3 years. Yet he was beyond criticism based on that one game in Istanbul. I don't known what it is but it isn't analysis based on knowledge and intellecutal honesty. Roy's been declared unfit before even being given the opportunity to prove so. Roy wasn't my first name on the list either, not even the second or third, but I think he deserves the same chance Souey, Roy, GH and Rafa got - a season to prove his failure.

When Rafa arrived at Mestalla he had nothing in his CV suggesting he'd be the first manager to lead Valencia to the title for the first time in over 30 years. Also, he started off with 4 defeats in, I think it was, his first 6 games as manager for Valencia having the Valencia fans kicking and screaming for his removal. I'm not saying the same will happen here, just that pointing to Roy's CV as evidence he'll fail is a pretty shallow and irrelevant argument from an intellectual point of view.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 23, 2010, 04:20:43 PM
No one on here is ridiculing him. Disagreeing or seeing it differently, commenting on how it reflects, both on him and the club, is not ridiculing him. Seeing the events on the pitch differently to how he is seeing them (at least publicly) and commenting on those differences, is not ridiculing him.

Do I really have to spend the next hour to cut and paste to prove you wrong or is it too much to ask you read through this thread with an open mind? There's tons of links to "quotes" that "prove" what a "failure" he is. There's quite a lot of condescending remarks you normally wouldn't find in posts claiming to comment on-pitch issues only.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2010, 04:32:09 PM
I don't mean to represent the truth in any way. It's just that I really believe we, as fans, should stand behind the manager through the hard times as well. I ain't happy how it's panned out thus far, but right now Roy can't even try to be positive or straightforward before his word's been twisted in the media and links to what he allegedly said appear in this forum and elsewhere to ridicule him. I think that's going beyond being critical of the manager and his decision. There's another word for that and it doesn't start with "when you walk, through a storm...".  That's my truth tell me yours, or something to that effect.

the liverpool way was only to bring in someone new if he was better than what we already had.

thus most of us were bewildered to see rafa make way for roy.

to me, this season has massive echoes of roy's relegation season at blackburn, in the late 90s.  Blackburn had been heavily financed by Jack Walker.....they had the second wealthiest squad in the premiership that season.  Blackburn had finished 6th the season before (remember we were 7th last season).

blackburn got off to an awful start and never recovered.  They were relegated.  Roy refused to walk (Oechoes of his refusal to walk away from anfield).  He was sacked at Christmas.

Hodgson later explained Blackburn's owner gave him the chance to resign honorably but he refused to do so, leaving the club with no option but to sack him: "To Blackburn's honour, Jack Walker wanted me to resign, he wanted to still pay for the rest of my contract. He said, 'Why don't you resign? You've had enough, it's not working out.' I refused to do that, arrogant of course as I was in those days.I thought if they stuck with me I'd save them from relegation. I do think that the players were very much still with me, so I couldn't resign because that would be a suggestion that in some way I was doing something or something was happening which I didn't see to be the case or the truth. I gave him no choice but to sack me"

eerie echoes of this season.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2010, 04:33:07 PM
Do I really have to spend the next hour to cut and paste to prove you wrong or is it too much to ask you read through this thread with an open mind? There's tons of links to "quotes" that "prove" what a "failure" he is. There's quite a lot of condescending remarks you normally wouldn't find in posts claiming to comment on-pitch issues only.

Yes, yes you do. Anything that is not in fawning admiration of the job Hodgson is doing is jumped on by you as some sort of evil agenda everyone has.
Some of us don't agree with your point of view, though we all respect it and your right to hold it. Deal with it. It's getting really tiresome reading your constant whining and sniping at anybody who dares differ from your line. Are you not able to understand the subtle differences everyone has in their opinions?

One of the things that sets this forum apart from most others is that we don't get 'personal' with any observations, criticisms, comments about etc, be it players, managers or each other.
You're going way too far in your interpretation of what people are saying, seeing agendas where non exist and generally flying off the handle at anything that isn't wholesome praise of the manager.   
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 23, 2010, 05:02:36 PM
the liverpool way was only to bring in someone new if he was better than what we already had.

thus most of us were bewildered to see rafa make way for roy.

to me, this season has massive echoes of roy's relegation season at blackburn, in the late 90s.  Blackburn had been heavily financed by Jack Walker.....they had the second wealthiest squad in the premiership that season.  Blackburn had finished 6th the season before (remember we were 7th last season).

blackburn got off to an awful start and never recovered.  They were relegated.  Roy refused to walk (Oechoes of his refusal to walk away from anfield).  He was sacked at Christmas.

eerie echoes of this season.


I never thought of the Liverpool way in such terms, but each to his own I guess. You do admit though, that the bulk of your case in declaring Roy unfit is solely based on a guilty by association logic? I remember people hanging on to GH referering to the Fergie-logic that it took him 6 years to win his first title so why shouldn't we do the same with GH? This is the inverted version of an equally poor and irrelevant argument. I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, I'm just saying the argument put forth to declare him unfit are based on hearsay, guilty-by-association-logic and irrelevant historical analogies rather than empirical analysis. The reason for this is there isn't enough empirical evidence to build a credible argument just yet. But I'll give you he need to start turn things around very very soon. Preferrably he'd need to win our next 3 games including Chelsea at home. This we are capable of unlike most other teams in the PL.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 23, 2010, 05:11:22 PM
:D  aye, ASI is big on the young lad, Johnston.
Where's my lawyer's number?  ;) I'm not as big a fan as I used to be and would prefer him at right wing. Kelly of course would do a better job at RB.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2010, 05:12:32 PM

I never thought of the Liverpool way in such terms, but each to his own I guess. You do admit though, that the bulk of your case in declaring Roy unfit is solely based on a guilty by association logic? I remember people hanging on to GH referering to the Fergie-logic that it took him 6 years to win his first title so why shouldn't we do the same with GH? This is the inverted version of an equally poor and irrelevant argument. I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, I'm just saying the argument put forth to declare him unfit are based on hearsay, guilty-by-association-logic and irrelevant historical analogies rather than empirical analysis. The reason for this is there isn't enough empirical evidence to build a credible argument just yet. But I'll give you he need to start turn things around very very soon. Preferrably he'd need to win our next 3 games including Chelsea at home. This we are capable of unlike most other teams in the PL.

guilt-by-association-logic??  what are you referring to?

roy's CV is poor.  There is no evidence whatsoever that he is up to the job.

nobody else in here support's your extreme position........aren't you, at some point, inclined to question your own assessment?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2010, 05:15:35 PM
Where's my lawyer's number?  ;) I'm not as big a fan as I used to be and would prefer him at right wing. Kelly of course would do a better job at RB.

if you're after 1.6 billion in damages, then me and fluffy are going undercover for a bit.

Johnston should be left-back..............left back in the dressing room  *boom boom* (my basil brush impersonation)

I'll get me coat.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 23, 2010, 05:20:01 PM
if you're after 1.6 billion in damages, then me and fluffy are going undercover for a bit.
I'll settle out of court for half that!  :P

Quote
Johnston should be left-back..............left back in the dressing room  *boom boom* (my basil brush impersonation)

I'll get me coat.
;D That was good. In the good old days we didn't have right halfs and left halfs. We had not halfs. Not half good! I'll also get my coat!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 23, 2010, 05:24:33 PM
But Juan, with that way of conditioning support Rafa should've recieved the same treatment Roy is now at least 3 years ago. For the last 3 years Rafa was found out, pretty much any team in the PL knew what it took to take points from Liverpool, even at Anfield. It's the double standards I think I have trouble accepting here. Rafa got chance after chance after chance to prove he wasn't taking this club forward and funnily enough he took every single opportunity handed to him for 3 years. Yet he was beyond criticism based on that one game in Istanbul. I don't known what it is but it isn't analysis based on knowledge and intellecutal honesty. Roy's been declared unfit before even being given the opportunity to prove so. Roy wasn't my first name on the list either, not even the second or third, but I think he deserves the same chance Souey, Roy, GH and Rafa got - a season to prove his failure.

When Rafa arrived at Mestalla he had nothing in his CV suggesting he'd be the first manager to lead Valencia to the title for the first time in over 30 years. Also, he started off with 4 defeats in, I think it was, his first 6 games as manager for Valencia having the Valencia fans kicking and screaming for his removal. I'm not saying the same will happen here, just that pointing to Roy's CV as evidence he'll fail is a pretty shallow and irrelevant argument from an intellectual point of view.

The big difference is Martin when Rafa took over at Valencia his managerial career was only 9 years old as such. Roy has been managing for 30 years now so you would expect his cv to show alot more success than it does.

As for Rafas achievements I think you are too quick to dismiss them. And I have provided some stats to back up what I mean. He was at Liverpool for 6 years, got to 2 champions league finals, a semi final and a quarter final,  failed to qualify once. He won an FA cup and got to a Carling cup final as well as the Europa cup semi final. Also in those 6 years lost a total of 9 home league games at Anfield. Not a bad record for someone you suggest that was "beyond criticism based on that one game in Istanbul". I dont mind people not liking Rafa, his style of management, his tactics or whatever but I just cant accept when people attempt to skim over his achievements and suggest his record is based on one game in Istanbul. And that's not taking into account the quality of opposition throughout his tenure of Arsenal, Chelsea and United.

2004-05 : PL 5th, CL Winners, Car Cup Finalists - (PL lost 3 games at home)
2005-06 : PL 3rd, CL 2nd round, FA cup winners - (PL lost 1 game at home)
2006-07 : PL 3rd, CL Finalists - (PL lost 1 game at home)
2007-08 : PL 4th, CL Semi finals - (PL lost 1 game at home)
2008-09 : PL 2nd, CL Quarter final - (PL unbeaten at home)
2009-10 : PL 7th, CL Group stages - (PL lost 3 games at home)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 23, 2010, 05:34:05 PM

 I remember people hanging on to GH referering to the Fergie-logic that it took him 6 years to win his first title so why shouldn't we do the same with GH?

Thats true Martin but in 7 years previous at Aberdeen Ferguson won three league titles, four Scottish Cups,  the European Cup Winner's Cup, the European Super Cup and a League Cup. Roy reached the final of the Uefa Cup.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2010, 06:00:13 PM
In the good old days we didn't have right halfs and left halfs. We had not halfs. Not half good! I'll also get my coat!

 :D   

can't beat the good old days.

i recently watched an old wembley fa cup final - from the 70s era.  Lovely memories.

football, where did it all go wrong.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2010, 06:12:25 PM
Fair play to you Juan for putting forward the case for Rafa!

I think there are probably extreme Rafa Haters out there who invested a lot of energy over a number of years suggesting he be sacked, welcomed the appointment of Roy with open arms (because he wasn't Rafa!) and now have serious issues and difficulties accepting that the only reason Roy was appointed was because he was unlikely to upset the sale of the club i.e. it wasn't a footballing decision!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2010, 09:26:56 PM
All of you take back everything 'nasty' you said about 'our Roy'. We moved up a place in the league today without even playing.  :o    When did 'Rafa' ever do anything like that???!!!  :P
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2010, 09:52:56 PM
Oh dear, it's that time of year again where we have to suffer the presence of the STUPIDEST (probably fattest!) manager in the Premier League at Anfield. Roy can you please send out a team that will destroy them! Ideally you would also make a gesture after the second goal to signal that the game is over! (note, don't be too pally with big Sam, it will get on our nerves!).
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 23, 2010, 10:44:37 PM
:D   

can't beat the good old days.

i recently watched an old wembley fa cup final - from the 70s era.  Lovely memories.

football, where did it all go wrong.

To answer your last qustion first. Sky!!

Actually you don't have to go back too far for nice memories. 1-4 at OT and 4-0 home to RM was a special week.  :)

86 cup final was nice but 89 one shrouded in sadness. The least said about the 96 white suit one the better.  :(

So, tomorrow is a massive day for the club, the owners and the team not to mention to the poor fans. Even if we do win what will be more important is the nature of the win. Nothing less than an emphatic win without reply will help Roy's chances of staying.

I'm reminded of Gerard's last season. Despite finishing 4th to guarantee CL football it wasn't enough to save him. If Roy continues to play a defensive style and not harrass the opposition when they have possession he will not last. Time to throw caution to the wind if you want to save your job Roy.

I hope the entire ground will give the new owners a welcome they will never forget. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. All the banners must be out and the Kop in full voice. I know it's difficult but they have to imagine that Blackburn is Chelsea circa May 2005.  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2010, 11:36:51 PM
agreed, ASI.

defensive football will never win anything in the premier league.

but at least with houllier, his defensive football was to some extent successful (4th and 5th finishes each season). 

Roy cannot even make defensive football work to our advantage.

But the age old problem is defence.  It has needed an overhaul now for 2 or 3 years.  Carragher, despite being a great lad, just isn't up to it anymore (if he ever was).  Koncheskey isn't of the right level.  Agger is picking up way too many injuries.  We badly need a young Sami Hyppia (plus a top fullback, who ideally can get forward).

Midfield is a mess too.  Captain Marvel's kryptonite is fading fast and it is very obvious.  Roy's summer buys are struggling, especially Poulsen.  Admittedly it is a big ask to come in and immediately make an impact (new country, club, league, etc).

And Torres is injury prone and appears to have a poor attitude.  He needs a talking to.  He does need support.  Ngog is a good lad, but never good enough to be the key striker at anfield.

I don't know what I want tomorrow.  I'd like to see Roy go.  But I would also hate it to be at the hands of Sam Allardyce (and at anfield).


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2010, 11:41:57 PM
Yet another snidey link trying to ridicule poor Roy:




Hodgson takes a pop at Rijkaard and defends his record as Rovers boss


Published 23:00 23/10/10 By Simon Mullock



Roy Hodgson has insisted he can cope with the pressure of being Liverpool boss – and has ridiculed suggestions that Frank Rijkaard should replace him at Anfield.

The Merseysiders, without a win in seven matches at home and abroad, face their manager’s former club Blackburn today ensconced in a relegation battle and with Hodgson under intense scrutiny after New England Sports Ventures’ takeover.

Rijkaard, the Dutchman who guided Barcelona to two La Liga titles and the Champions League, is being linked to Liverpool following his sacking by Galatasaray this week.

But Hodgson is not prepared to walk away from the Reds without a fight, saying: “I had two-and-a-half years of this kind of thing when I was at Inter when, every day, there would be stuff in the newspapers that someone was going to get my job.


“If I took two and a half years of that in Milan I can take two and a half years of it here.

“It ended up with my being offered a new contract by Inter when I left for Blackburn.

“The doom and gloom that surrounds us is not coming from within the club, not from me and not from the players – it’s coming from people outside who are having a field day and delighting in the fact we are having a bad time.

“Rijkaard has just been sacked from Galatasaray - he must be a great manager to have been sacked by Galatasaray! What you are talking about is Frank Rijkaard’s agent putting his name around. It is all speculation.”

Hodgson spent 18 months at Blackburn after quitting Inter in 1997, but was sacked with Rovers bottom of the table and heading for relegation.

He said: “At Blackburn, I took a team that avoided relegation by one point to the UEFA Cup when we finished sixth in the league.

“That seems somehow to be forgotten when the next season we had a lot of injury problems and found that things were not going so well. But in that first season we were being feted everywhere and I was being tipped as the next England manager, but after a poor start the following season I didn’t get a chance to follow it through.

“I am sure that if I had been given a chance to follow it through, I would have dealt with that one too. You do get bad periods and I have been lucky in having had more good ones than bad ones.

“At Blackburn, 18 months of work got judged on the last two or three months when we did poorly. But that is the business.

“So many good things have been written about me over the last two and a half years that it would be churlish of me to start complaining. But I wasn’t happy about the way my time at Blackburn was perceived.”

Skipper Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres were left behind as a weakened Liverpool team drew 0-0 in Napoli on Thursday night.

Hodgson said: “Now it is up to the players who will be fresh from not having taken part to step up to the plate.

“We have left more than two behind - there is Meireles, there is Johnson, there is Leiva; Jamie Carragher played half the game, Joe Cole only came on at the end.

“I think we won’t be taking any fatigue into the match. It doesn’t always work that way, but we won’t have that as an excuse if we don’t go on and win the game.”


http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-boss-Roy-Hodgson-has-taken-a-pop-at-Frank-Rijkaard-and-defended-his-own-record-as-Blackburn-manager-article611861.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-boss-Roy-Hodgson-has-taken-a-pop-at-Frank-Rijkaard-and-defended-his-own-record-as-Blackburn-manager-article611861.html)

 :o   :o   :o







Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2010, 11:48:44 PM
roy talks too much.

and he is on the defensive re his own (and other's abilities) so early into his time at anfield.

FFS the stuff we are hearing from roy now, is the type of stuff we were hearing from houllier after 3 or 4 years in the job.

It is obvious from his comments that he will have to be sacked......he will never resign from a job it seems.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2010, 11:55:10 PM
roy talks too much.

and he is on the defensive re his own (and other's abilities) so early into his time at anfield.

FFS the stuff we are hearing from roy now, is the type of stuff we were hearing from houllier after 3 or 4 years in the job.

It is obvious from his comments that he will have to be sacked......he will never resign from a job it seems.

It's unbelieveable, though I can't wait for him to have a go at Fat Sham if we lose and Fat Sham starts gloating.

I'm afraid the large hessian bag beckons for our dear Royston.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 12:02:24 AM
It's unbelieveable, though I can't wait for him to have a go at Fat Sham if we lose and Fat Sham starts gloating.

I'm afraid the large hessian bag beckons for our dear Royston.

yes, at this rate Roy won't make it to November, farless Christmas.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 24, 2010, 12:10:18 AM
This again shows why Roy has to go. The club risks going back 5 years.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1323260/Fernando-Torres-Pepe-Reina-Glen-Johnson-seek-Anfield-exit.html

Liverpool stars including Pepe Reina, Fernando Torres and Glen Johnson want to quit the club in January as morale hits an all-time low.

Manager Roy Hodgson's job is on the line as Liverpool meet Blackburn at Anfield today looking to escape the Premier League's bottom three.

The malaise is so great behind the scenes that even victory is unlikely to persuade the big names to stay under the current regime and new owner John W Henry, who cannot be present due to illness, will watch the game at home.

Players are aghast that Hodgson has put a 68-yearold, Mike Kelly, in charge of first-team coaching. Kelly, a former keeper with Wimbledon, Birmingham and QPR from 1958 and 1976, even takes Reina through his routines, to the Spaniard's disquiet.

Johnson, who could miss the game against Blackburn with a hamstring injury, has performed poorly under Hodgson and is aware Bayern Munich and Juventus are interested.

Most worryingly for Liverpool fans, they were stunned to hear Hodgson link Torres with a move to Manchester United before Wayne Rooney signed his new contract. Torres has failed to score in the last six games - equalling his worst run for the club - and has an awkward relationship with the manager.

There is a feeling the Spaniard is not trying hard enough. Torres decided to stay in the summer after having discussions with Hodgson but he is understood to regret the decision.

Even Steven Gerrard has not been won over yet by Hodgson. The captain has mainly been deployed in a deep role but is likely to get his chance behind Torres today. Liverpool have failed to win any of their last seven games and Hodgson admits that after resting players in the 0-0 draw against Napoli in midweek, there can be no excuses against Blackburn.

Torres, Gerrard, Raul Meireles and Lucas did not travel to Italy while Jamie Carragher and Paul Konchesky were taken off early. Joe Cole, who has struggled to live up to his billing after signing from Chelsea, has admitted morale is so low at the club that any kind of victory would be welcome.

Henry planned to give Hodgson a trial until Christmas before making a decision on his future.

But things are unravelling so fast that defeat today could see them take immediate action.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 12:13:07 AM
I hope this is just Sunday paper nonsense. 'Unravelling' is definately an apt word.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 12:28:54 AM
it's the daily mail - lots of the article is just rehashing old stuff and rumour.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 24, 2010, 12:29:39 AM
Yet another snidey link trying to ridicule poor Roy:




Hodgson takes a pop at Rijkaard and defends his record as Rovers boss


Published 23:00 23/10/10 By Simon Mullock

Roy Hodgson has insisted he can cope with the pressure of being Liverpool boss – and has ridiculed suggestions that Frank Rijkaard should replace him at Anfield.


The one thing I admired about Roy was the way he conducted himself in front of the media. Hes now quickly becoming a joke.

Nice week to have a pop at another manager when he just finished up at Gala and his father died. Twist the knife Roy.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 12:31:47 AM
The one thing I admired about Roy was the way he conducted himself in front of the media. Hes now quickly becoming a joke.

Nice week to have a pop at another manager when he just finished up at Gala and his father died. Twist the knife Roy.

Can't wait for Martin's justification. Now maybe he'll see things a little differently.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 24, 2010, 12:32:32 AM
it's the daily mail - lots of the article is just rehashing old stuff and rumour.

Agreed but unfortunately I dont think we can take notice of the stories we like and ignore stories like this. At the moment anythings possible and I wouldnt be surprised if this story is true. Why should Torres go without another year of CL football
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 12:44:47 AM
If Red Henk didn't realise what he'd bought into, he soon will.

I fear we've still got a way to go down the slope before we start the long climb back.

"I cant help feeling while we're getting rid of Hicks and Gillett cant someone take Roy with them" - as well as still being as funny as ever it's starting to take on a rather hauntingly prophetic nature.

Still any excuse to post it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 12:48:01 AM
Agreed but unfortunately I dont think we can take notice of the stories we like and ignore stories like this. At the moment anythings possible and I wouldnt be surprised if this story is true. Why should Torres go without another year of CL football

I'd have been happy to sell Torres last summer, Juan.

The lad is injury prone (and now seems to have an attitude).

And if I thought Gerrard and Torres were behind Rafa's departure, I'd hand the pair of them their P45's.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 12:49:26 AM
I'd have been happy to sell Torres last summer, Juan.

The lad is injury prone (and now seems to have an attitude).

And if I thought Gerrard and Torres were behind Rafa's departure, I'd hand the pair of them their P45's.

There seems to be a lot of chatter about Gerrard, Carra and Roy aswell.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 24, 2010, 12:49:51 AM
JFC...His team should do his talking for him....the audition phase for the job is over .... we want results now!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 12:51:48 AM
JFC...His team should do his talking for him....the audition phase for the job is over .... we want results now!

Straight to the point, and no messing. Get in there, Ed.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 01:07:51 AM
There seems to be a lot of chatter about Gerrard, Carra and Roy aswell.

yes, I don't like this player power thing taking of.

gerrard was never the sharpest knife in the drawer............and carra's best days are behind him.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 01:17:57 AM
yes, I don't like this player power thing taking of.

gerrard was never the sharpest knife in the drawer............and carra's best days are behind him.

They seem to forget a manager never scored a hat trick, an own goal or gave a penalty away. They all need to take more responsibility, collectively and individually for what happens on the pitch.

'If only we could have a new manager............................'
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on October 24, 2010, 02:07:18 AM
Straight to the point, and no messing. Get in there, Ed.

LOL, tbh, anything other than a comfortable win tomorrow would surprise me and we have a reasonably easy fixture list coming up....
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 24, 2010, 12:18:29 PM
But the age old problem is defence.  It has needed an overhaul now for 2 or 3 years.  Carragher, despite being a great lad, just isn't up to it anymore (if he ever was).  Koncheskey isn't of the right level.  Agger is picking up way too many injuries.  We badly need a young Sami Hyppia (plus a top fullback, who ideally can get forward).
He's okay against some of the slower teams. His judgement and positional play can compensate for tiring legs. He never was the fastest anyway. Trouble is, spotting the likes of Hyppia isn't easy. You have to take chances or like City, buy proven quality. Maybe our new owners will do the latter but not until a change of manager please!

Quote
Midfield is a mess too.  Captain Marvel's kryptonite is fading fast and it is very obvious.  Roy's summer buys are struggling, especially Poulsen.  Admittedly it is a big ask to come in and immediately make an impact (new country, club, league, etc).
Do you watch England games? Stevie still has it when playing for England. But as you say, he can't do it alone but I think Meireles will get better with games but probably needs a manager with more tactical acumen. But if van de Vaart can make an immediate impression at Spurs then why can't our players? What ever happened to the new manager bounce? We never saw it which suggests he can't inspire players.

Quote
And Torres is injury prone and appears to have a poor attitude.  He needs a talking to.  He does need support.  Ngog is a good lad, but never good enough to be the key striker at anfield.
Torres seriously needs to improve his attitude. But I also feel for him as he has no support. If we play him up front alone today that will be typical of Roy's attitude.

Quote
I don't know what I want tomorrow.  I'd like to see Roy go.  But I would also hate it to be at the hands of Sam Allardyce (and at anfield).
We have to win to stay within 10 pts of 4th. Even with Roy. But he won't last. Once a CE is appointed he'll be gone in a few weeks. I just hope we choose a new manager wisely.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 24, 2010, 12:27:58 PM
I do think Roy's days are up. I was very disheartened to learn about the reaction among the players, regardless of how understandable it is, regarding his appointment of 68-year old Kelly as coach for the first team. Roy's extremly isolated at the moment and I can't see a way  back for him now no matter how performance and results pan out. He'll only stay until Henry & Co.'s found "proper" replacement, which, by the way, rules out Rafa. We need to get the next manager right or we'll seriously run the risk of getting stuck in the relegation zone with relegation being an actual possibility.

For the sake of the club, if not Roy's, I wish supporters wouldn't have criticised him so harshly on forums and websites providing a spin for the media to create this extremly negative sprial. I'm not blaming LFC fans for the current malaise but they sure as hell has played its part to create it. Getting rid of Roy may be easy, finding a manager who's willing to run the risk of getting the same treatment he did may be tougher.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 24, 2010, 12:31:46 PM
ASI, who else is there to play alongside Torres? I know Ngog is said to be a forward, problem is... well you know.

I actually think Roy's summer signings have done pretty well. True Konchesky hasn't set the world on fire but was he expected to? Meireles is a quality player we should be very happy to have lured to this club. Jovanovich is one of few players consistently showing passion and creativity. Poulsen is the worst I've seen in a red shirt in many years.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 24, 2010, 12:53:58 PM
I do think Roy's days are up.

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 24, 2010, 12:58:08 PM
I do think Roy's days are up. I was very disheartened to learn about the reaction among the players, regardless of how understandable it is, regarding his appointment of 68-year old Kelly as coach for the first team. Roy's extremly isolated at the moment and I can't see a way  back for him now no matter how performance and results pan out. He'll only stay until Henry & Co.'s found "proper" replacement, which, by the way, rules out Rafa. We need to get the next manager right or we'll seriously run the risk of getting stuck in the relegation zone with relegation being an actual possibility.

For the sake of the club, if not Roy's, I wish supporters wouldn't have criticised him so harshly on forums and websites providing a spin for the media to create this extremly negative sprial. I'm not blaming LFC fans for the current malaise but they sure as hell has played its part to create it. Getting rid of Roy may be easy, finding a manager who's willing to run the risk of getting the same treatment he did may be tougher.

Welcome to the Dark side Martin.

In all seriousness Blackburn may effectively get Roy fired for a second time. I dont think it will be a case of finding another replacement, Kenny can step in until the new manager has been found. He would give the type of short term boost and lift to the team that we need at the moment.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 24, 2010, 01:25:33 PM
I do think Roy's days are up. I was very disheartened to learn about the reaction among the players, regardless of how understandable it is, regarding his appointment of 68-year old Kelly as coach for the first team. Roy's extremly isolated at the moment and I can't see a way  back for him now no matter how performance and results pan out. He'll only stay until Henry & Co.'s found "proper" replacement, which, by the way, rules out Rafa. We need to get the next manager right or we'll seriously run the risk of getting stuck in the relegation zone with relegation being an actual possibility.

For the sake of the club, if not Roy's, I wish supporters wouldn't have criticised him so harshly on forums and websites providing a spin for the media to create this extremly negative sprial. I'm not blaming LFC fans for the current malaise but they sure as hell has played its part to create it. Getting rid of Roy may be easy, finding a manager who's willing to run the risk of getting the same treatment he did may be tougher.


 ::)

It took a 68yr olds appointment as a coach for the first team for you to realise that Woy is out of his f^ckin' depth (hitting head against brick wall)!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 24, 2010, 02:29:27 PM
ASI, who else is there to play alongside Torres? I know Ngog is said to be a forward, problem is... well you know.
Nice to see you've finally seen the light with Roy. As to your question... Babel. He was told his performances would dictate whether there was a future for him at the club. He's big and powerful with a decent shot. That's enough to cause Blackburn's defence problems and it also gives Torres a bit more room.

TEAM NEWS! Babel doesn't start. One up front.  >:( Any Liverpool manager who plays one up front at home is unworthy of the job. I doubt we will win today.

And here's a sobering thought. Even if we win 2-0 today we won't move up a single place. A 4-0 will see us overtake Blackburn on gd.  :(
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 24, 2010, 02:31:38 PM
Welcome to the Dark side Martin.

In all seriousness Blackburn may effectively get Roy fired for a second time. I dont think it will be a case of finding another replacement, Kenny can step in until the new manager has been found. He would give the type of short term boost and lift to the team that we need at the moment.

I don't buy into the Kenny solution. That's just a case of nostalgia and wishful thinking. I was just watching first half Stoke - ManU. ManU didn't play any better than we did in any of the games we lost, yet they're up 1-0  after first half. I think that gives Roy a case in saying we've had our fair share of bad luck, tho I wouldn't explain our position by pointing at bad luck, just that when things goes against you it's hard to get a result.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 24, 2010, 02:33:01 PM
How the fork can he play that worthless piece of shed Maxi ahead of Jovanovic? Sorry Roy, but you have it coming.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 02:59:27 PM
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

 :D :D :D :D

Synchronised goggle eyes. Mexican wave, pah.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 03:04:27 PM
I don't buy into the Kenny solution. That's just a case of nostalgia and wishful thinking. I was just watching first half Stoke - ManU. ManU didn't play any better than we did in any of the games we lost, yet they're up 1-0  after first half. I think that gives Roy a case in saying we've had our fair share of bad luck, tho I wouldn't explain our position by pointing at bad luck, just that when things goes against you it's hard to get a result.

Agree with you re Kenny, Martin. It would be a huge mistake. Bigger than appointing Roy, IMHO.

The difference between them and us is that approach the game in a positive manner, even if there passing game doesn't always click.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 03:18:46 PM
I do think Roy's days are up. I was very disheartened to learn about the reaction among the players, regardless of how understandable it is, regarding his appointment of 68-year old Kelly as coach for the first team. Roy's extremly isolated at the moment and I can't see a way  back for him now no matter how performance and results pan out. He'll only stay until Henry & Co.'s found "proper" replacement, which, by the way, rules out Rafa. We need to get the next manager right or we'll seriously run the risk of getting stuck in the relegation zone with relegation being an actual possibility.

For the sake of the club, if not Roy's, I wish supporters wouldn't have criticised him so harshly on forums and websites providing a spin for the media to create this extremly negative sprial. I'm not blaming LFC fans for the current malaise but they sure as hell has played its part to create it. Getting rid of Roy may be easy, finding a manager who's willing to run the risk of getting the same treatment he did may be tougher.

The strength of feeling re Roy directly correlates to the depth of emotion fans have for the club. Sometimes it goes over the top, but the rationale behind it is no less valid all the same.
I guess it's down partly to frustration stemming from the last third of the '08/'09 season when we played a more progressive style, which the players appeared to believe in and enjoy, only to go back to the overly cautious, rather turgid stuff last season. Then along comes Roy, mentions playing 'pass and move' but instead we see even more defensive minded, though defensively frail, teeth tingling stuff. I think if the style of play was going through a more positive metamorphosis, which you could understand suffering from initial teething troubles, then he would probably be awarded with more patience.

He's not helped himself by being overly cautious with his purchase of Poulsen. Yes he may know the player, but that was 10 years ago at Copenhagen. He seems to be applying what was instead of what now is with the decision to buy him. Konch was a more understandable purchase. We were in dire need of a left back, there's not a huge choice and the new 'home grown' rule, I'm sure, played a huge part aswell. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 03:31:40 PM
Di Matteo - ok, who's having a laugh.  I wouldn't have the lad making the half time cuppa, nevermind being our boss.

Di Matteo Albion are up to fourth.  Trust me, Dude, he will be an incredibly highly sought after manager within 5 years.  ;)
He won't go the way of Roberto Martínez, after leaving Swansea for Wigan. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 04:12:47 PM
He's okay against some of the slower teams. His judgement and positional play can compensate for tiring legs. He never was the fastest anyway. Trouble is, spotting the likes of Hyppia isn't easy.

Carra was always a tad too slow.  And for my money, was definitely done 2 seasons ago.


Do you watch England games? Stevie still has it when playing for England.

I feel the opposite, ASI.  He has been shockingly bad for england in games of any note.



What ever happened to the new manager bounce? We never saw it which suggests he can't inspire players.

I suspect it goes much deeper than just Roy.

We all know defence is a major problem area.

But midfield is also a major issue.

There are two types of midfielder which gave us strength these past 10 years.  One is the type that can protect the back four - who sits in front of them.  Didi Hamann and then the argie lad did that well.  The other key midfielder is the one who has a wide range of passing ability.  Both key positions are of a specialist nature and require good positional and tactical awareness.  Gerrard fits neither.

Having lost the Monster and Alonso, our midfield is shot.  We have now neither a top defensive midfielder, nor a pass-master. 

Allied to the problems in defence, this is why we have been struggling.

With a malfunctioning offence, we are averaging less than a goal per game........simply not good enough.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 04:15:35 PM
Di Matteo Albion are up to fourth.  Trust me, Dude, he will be an incredibly highly sought after manager within 5 years.  ;)
He won't go the way of Roberto Martínez, after leaving Swansea for Wigan.

think back to kenny getting the job in the 80s.......we both agree that we needed an older experienced boss (we both agree on bobby robson).

in 15 years, if di matteo is still a successful manager, then he could be a contender then.

in that same vein of thought, perhaps this is a good moment to mention the experienced Guus Hiddink.   ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 04:20:15 PM
think back to kenny getting the job in the 80s.......we both agree that we needed an older experienced boss (we both agree on bobby robson).

in 15 years, if di matteo is still a successful manager, then he could be a contender then.

in that same vein of thought, perhaps this is a good moment to mention the experienced Guus Hiddink.   ;D

I'm not touting DM for the post just yet, maybe when Pellegrini leaves.  :D

And as for Guus, I hear he's only got two payments left on his funeral plan.  :D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 04:25:57 PM
I'm not touting DM for the post just yet, maybe when Pellegrini leaves.  :D

And as for Guus, I hear he's only got two payments left on his funeral plan.  :D

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/23/article-0-09479FFE000005DC-514_468x595.jpg)

 :D    I heard that there's life left yet in his mobility scooter's batteries yet.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 05:06:37 PM
yehaaaa.

we now go 6th, europe beckons.  Roy for mayor of liverpool and freedom to walk his sheep in the city.

we kicked sand in big sam's face.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: wittsy on October 24, 2010, 05:12:24 PM
That was a better performance but to be honest Bburn didn't do alot until the 60/70 minute mark.  Should be a confidense boost for the lads though and a good win (should have had a penalty too).

Maybe a life line for Roy but I think the next two prem games will be a real test, Bolton away will be no easy task and Chelsea are in top form. Lets see how things go from here.

Meireles, Kyriakos and even Torres all looked good and a few others started to show their colours. hopefully it will continue from here.

Jas
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 24, 2010, 06:24:42 PM
Carra was always a tad too slow.  And for my money, was definitely done 2 seasons ago.
This will probably be his last season. You can't blame him for poor performances. I'm sure he always does his best even if it falls short of what is required.

Quote
I feel the opposite, ASI.  He has been shockingly bad for england in games of any note.
Funny. His performances in Euro2012 qualifiers have been good especially when he was captain. But I won't try to persuade you as you have a unmoveable opinion on him.

Quote
I suspect it goes much deeper than just Roy.

We all know defence is a major problem area.
Of course it does. You have to keep clean sheets and even today we couldn't manage it against feeble opposition. But it needs money so hopefully that will be forthcoming in January. Until then all you can do is do the best with what you have available.

Quote
But midfield is also a major issue.

There are two types of midfielder which gave us strength these past 10 years.  One is the type that can protect the back four - who sits in front of them.  Didi Hamann and then the argie lad did that well.  The other key midfielder is the one who has a wide range of passing ability.  Both key positions are of a specialist nature and require good positional and tactical awareness.  Gerrard fits neither.
Gerrard is still a good passer but is best when running on to balls from a deep position. That's where he excels and this time my opinion is unmoveable. But he needs help. On that I will agree with you. radio5Live reported that Alonso is struggling to play regularly at RM and Jan Molby suggested maybe we could get him on loan. Don't hold your breath.

Quote
Having lost the Monster and Alonso, our midfield is shot.  We have now neither a top defensive midfielder, nor a pass-master.
We had two of the best in the world and those type of players don't grow on trees so it will be difficult to firstly identify them and second, to pay for them.

Quote
Allied to the problems in defence, this is why we have been struggling.

With a malfunctioning offence, we are averaging less than a goal per game........simply not good enough.
Plus a distinct lack of confidence. Sitting back at 2-1 up today and getting nervous. We should have had 2 up front from the start and been 3-0 up at HT. There wouldn't be any nervousness then!

A major outlay of cash is required next summer but also some purchases in Jan. I suggest a creative midfielder. It's okay to concede goals providing you score more.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 07:33:02 PM
Funny. His performances in Euro2012 qualifiers have been good especially when he was captain. But I won't try to persuade you as you have a unmoveable opinion on him.  Gerrard is still a good passer but is best when running on to balls from a deep position.

 :D  ASI, we will never agree on gerrard.

at any major championship with england he struggles......this summer was the same.  I thought he and england's other over-rated primadonnas were atrocious.

yes, come the new year, we gotta bring in some major talent. 

I think Mereless could come good.  He just needs time.  And Lucas would look much better if the giant shadow of gerrard didn't loom over him (and his colleagues).  But the shadow now is dimming....the kryptonite is fading fast.  It is not disimmilar to the fading of bryan robson at old trafford....and their league title success when he faded.

But we both agree - we need a top manager and soon.  I don't want Roy spending our cash come January.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 24, 2010, 09:09:11 PM
radio5Live reported that Alonso is struggling to play regularly at RM and Jan Molby suggested maybe we could get him on loan. Don't hold your breath.

Im not sure what Real games Jan Molby has been watching because as far as Im aware he played 90 minutes last night, he seems to play any game I see and has had some storming games.

Ive heard stories that himself and Mourinho dont get along but Ive yet to see evidence of that
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 24, 2010, 09:16:12 PM
Indeed the performance of the season this far.  :) A true reflection of the run of play and chances would've seen us win 4-1 or something like that. Still it's obvious teams struggling with form and confidence have a hard time scoring no matter how good chances they create. Look at ManU who really really were lucky to win that game based on what they produced.

Before the game I called Maxi less nice names, only to see him have a cracking game and was arguably our best player in the first half. Gerrard was sublime, and Meireles got better by every minute. Hey, even Lucas looked average for crying out loud.

We shouldn't get carried away tho, but it is inspiring and comforting to know we have this kind of quality in us. We just need to keep working with this passion and committment and the goals will come a tad more easily I hope.

Very very well done, red men!  :)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 10:12:26 PM
Plus a distinct lack of confidence. Sitting back at 2-1 up today and getting nervous. We should have had 2 up front from the start and been 3-0 up at HT. There wouldn't be any nervousness then!

As you say ASI, sitting back on a lead, and displaying nervousness is all symptomatic of a team low on confidence and with the way we've been defensively this season, lacking in belief that they could see out the game.
Still we'd have taken a win before kick off. Let's hope this starts to rebuild the confidence and belief.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 24, 2010, 11:01:17 PM
Im not sure what Real games Jan Molby has been watching because as far as Im aware he played 90 minutes last night, he seems to play any game I see and has had some storming games.

Ive heard stories that himself and Mourinho dont get along but Ive yet to see evidence of that

Yes, I don't know where Jan got that from but it came as a surprise to me too. Perhaps if was just wishful thinking.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 24, 2010, 11:10:35 PM
As you say ASI, sitting back on a lead, and displaying nervousness is all symptomatic of a team low on confidence and with the way we've been defensively this season, lacking in belief that they could see out the game.
Still we'd have taken a win before kick off. Let's hope this starts to rebuild the confidence and belief.

Tes, I've just watched the game on MoTD2 and it was unrecognisable from the Everton game. Pace, men running into space and snappy passing. Just like the old days towards the end of the 08/09 season.

Perhaps Roy has been reading some websites - perhaps this one - and realising he can't continue with the same system that is clearly unsuited to these players.

I know Blackburn were without Samba and their centre half but to counter that Robinson made 3 excellent saves in the first half and with better finishing Meirles would have opened his account and Maxi would have added to his.

Understandable perhaps that they got nervous in the last 15 minutes given the nature of Blackburn's goal and the league position. 3 points now seperate us from 7th placed Sunderland. The away game at Bolton is absolutely crucial. We have got to win it for several reasons not least the enormous boost it would have on the players.

I don't ever remember seeing such a compressed table before. Bolton won't be easy but if they are allowed to play with the same freedom as today then there's every reason to be optimistic. Hopefully Roy will see that too. And with no game this week time perhaps for some team bonding in the Lake District. Didn't do Everton any harm!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 11:11:14 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/23/article-0-09479FFE000005DC-514_468x595.jpg)

 :D    I heard that there's life left yet in his mobility scooter's batteries yet.

He's wearing the right 'colours' at least. Isn't that Mike Kelly?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 11:21:02 PM
Tes, I've just watched the game on MoTD2 and it was unrecognisable from the Everton game. Pace, men running into space and snappy passing. Just like the old days towards the end of the 08/09 season.

Perhaps Roy has been reading some websites - perhaps this one - and realising he can't continue with the same system that is clearly unsuited to these players.

I know Blackburn were without Samba and their centre half but to counter that Robinson made 3 excellent saves in the first half and with better finishing Meirles would have opened his account and Maxi would have added to his.

Understandable perhaps that they got nervous in the last 15 minutes given the nature of Blackburn's goal and the league position. 3 points now seperate us from 7th placed Sunderland. The away game at Bolton is absolutely crucial. We have got to win it for several reasons not least the enormous boost it would have on the players.

I don't ever remember seeing such a compressed table before. Bolton won't be easy but if they are allowed to play with the same freedom as today then there's every reason to be optimistic. Hopefully Roy will see that too. And with no game this week time perhaps for some team bonding in the Lake District. Didn't do Everton any harm!

It's understandable especially as they barely had a sniff at goal but didn't need to when Carra's in goalscoring mood.
We need to go at Bolton and pen them back. Owen Coyle has them playing very un-Bolton like and Johan Elmander seems like a striker re-born under Coyle.

3 points at Bolton and then the big one against Chelsea. I'd settle for a scrappy point 0-0, against them, and hopefully a 3 game unbeaten run would start to instill some self belief and confidence.

Even though we're lacking higher up the pitch, the defence certainly needs money spending on it. As I've banged on about for too long, there's a case to be made against each of our central defenders and I shiver at the thought of our full backs.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 24, 2010, 11:29:27 PM
It's understandable especially as they barely had a sniff at goal but didn't need to when Carra's in goalscoring mood.
Ouch! That's a bit harsh. Did you see it? Skrtel kicked the ball against Jamie's head and it rebounded in. Hardly his fault.
Quote
We need to go at Bolton and pen them back. Owen Coyle has them playing very un-Bolton like and Johan Elmander seems like a striker re-born under Coyle.
Yes, that is a concern but player for player we have more with better skills. If they play an attacking game that will leave gaps which we should exploit.

Quote
3 points at Bolton and then the big one against Chelsea. I'd settle for a scrappy point 0-0, against them, and hopefully a 3 game unbeaten run would start to instill some self belief and confidence.

Even though we're lacking higher up the pitch, the defence certainly needs money spending on it. As I've banged on about for too long, there's a case to be made against each of our central defenders and I shiver at the thought of our full backs.
I'd also settle for a draw with Chelsea and if Villa can do it then so can we. Kyriargos (sp) is an excellent buy and isn't easily beaten in the air. He's full of confidence so that will help. And Meireles is very close to goals. He's got a shot that Alonso would die for.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 24, 2010, 11:51:50 PM
Ouch! That's a bit harsh.

I guess it was considering, but poor old Carra has scored more in the wrong net than in the right one.  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 24, 2010, 11:55:06 PM
and what is it with skitrail and carra............they keep getting in each other's way.........head clashes, heading in clearances, etc.

nice if they had a bit more understanding.

 :P
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 25, 2010, 06:36:59 PM
Feyenoord stick with coach despite 10-0 thrashing by PSV Eindhoven

Feyenoord have insisted they will stick with their coach, Mario Been, despite their 10‑0 thrashing by PSV Eindhoven.

Feyenoord conceded eight second-half goals yesterday as they slumped to their worst defeat in the club's history – underlining how far the once-powerful Rotterdam side have fallen in recent years.

They now stand 15th in the 18-team Eredivisie with only two wins in 10 matches.

Feyenoord's technical director, Leo Beenhakker, said today the board still supports Been and do not intend to fire him. Been said in the aftermath of the defeat he would quit if his players and directors had lost faith in him.

_________________

I watched some of that game yesterday - on live..........a strange game.

I hope Chelsea don't hammer Woy's Boys by a similar scoreline.


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 25, 2010, 08:12:17 PM
Feyenoord stick with coach despite 10-0 thrashing by PSV Eindhoven

Feyenoord have insisted they will stick with their coach, Mario Been, despite their 10‑0 thrashing by PSV Eindhoven.

Feyenoord conceded eight second-half goals yesterday as they slumped to their worst defeat in the club's history – underlining how far the once-powerful Rotterdam side have fallen in recent years.

They now stand 15th in the 18-team Eredivisie with only two wins in 10 matches.

Feyenoord's technical director, Leo Beenhakker, said today the board still supports Been and do not intend to fire him. Been said in the aftermath of the defeat he would quit if his players and directors had lost faith in him.

_________________

I watched some of that game yesterday - on live..........a strange game.

I hope Chelsea don't hammer Woy's Boys by a similar scoreline.

Blackburn was the warm up, Bolton will be the dress rehearsal and Chelsea, the real thing. I have faith.  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 25, 2010, 11:59:53 PM
Blackburn was the warm up, Bolton will be the dress rehearsal and Chelsea, the real thing. I have faith.  ;D

I have zero faith Tes. None, not a scrap, not even an ounce. I dont think we will win either of our next two games. I think we will actually draw both. Then we will have people who want Roy to stay on say that Bolton are a tough team away from home and Chelsea are Chelsea. That doesnt cut it anymore, the excuses have to stop. In fact I think we will possibly perform better in the Chelsea game because it will be one the players will easily get up for. Bolton will be normal service resumed, back playing like sh*te.

The sooner Roy goes the sooner we can stop seeing stories like below. I dont believe a word of the article but until we get a manager who knows how to win then I think the likes of Reina will go.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Manchester-United-are-targeting-Liverpool-s-Pepe-Reina-in-a-sensational-12m-swoop-article613701.html

Sir Alex Ferguson wants Pepe Reina to be Manchester ­United’s new No.1.

United boss Ferguson is at the head of a queue of clubs who believe ­Liverpool star Reina may become ­available because of unrest at Anfield.

The Spain international is to hold talks with Liverpool’s new owners NESV after becoming concerned about the club’s long-term direction.

He could be the first man to move between Liverpool and their bitter rivals in either direction since Phil Chisnall left Old Trafford in 1964.


Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Manchester-United-are-targeting-Liverpool-s-Pepe-Reina-in-a-sensational-12m-swoop-article613701.html#ixzz13PkLIE2H
Sign up for MirrorFootball's Morning Spy newsletter Register here
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 12:06:42 AM
I have zero faith Tes. None, not a scrap, not even an ounce. I dont think we will win either of our next two games. I think we will actually draw both. Then we will have people who want Roy to stay on say that Bolton are a tough team away from home and Chelsea are Chelsea. That doesnt cut it anymore, the excuses have to stop. In fact I think we will possibly perform better in the Chelsea game because it will be one the players will easily get up for. Bolton will be normal service resumed, back playing like sh*te.

The sooner Roy goes the sooner we can stop seeing stories like below. I dont believe a word of the article but until we get a manager who knows how to win then I think the likes of Reina will go.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Manchester-United-are-targeting-Liverpool-s-Pepe-Reina-in-a-sensational-12m-swoop-article613701.html

Sir Alex Ferguson wants Pepe Reina to be Manchester ­United’s new No.1.

United boss Ferguson is at the head of a queue of clubs who believe ­Liverpool star Reina may become ­available because of unrest at Anfield.

The Spain international is to hold talks with Liverpool’s new owners NESV after becoming concerned about the club’s long-term direction.

He could be the first man to move between Liverpool and their bitter rivals in either direction since Phil Chisnall left Old Trafford in 1964.


Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Manchester-United-are-targeting-Liverpool-s-Pepe-Reina-in-a-sensational-12m-swoop-article613701.html#ixzz13PkLIE2H
Sign up for MirrorFootball's Morning Spy newsletter Register here

Exactly, Juan. Without the right man at the helm, we'll see a steady stream of these kind of stories.

And why the sudden departure from Hodgson's normal way of playing?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2010, 12:36:35 AM
tough game at bolton.  A draw if we are lucky.

and I can see chelsea beating us 2 or 3 nil at anfield.

then away to wigan and away to stoke......home to west ham.

I think wigan or stoke could see roy fired.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 12:51:28 AM
Exactly, Juan. Without the right man at the helm, we'll see a steady stream of these kind of stories.

And why the sudden departure from Hodgson's normal way of playing?

The sorry thing about it Tes they wont be just stories. Jim himself has it on good grounds that there is a split between the players at the club as was reported in the papers. With Hodgson here I dont see Reina and Torres hanging around. They want to learn from the best, improve their careers, Roy is Mr f*cking average and always will be. So much for Shanklys aim for the sky and all that. Roy is a dud. I am now so furious that hes still here.

I'm done giving him any support.

As for changing his playing style, I guess hes realised that after 8 games of utter sh*t that something was not working, that his pre historic methods were last seen being used in Escape to victory in 1981 and that maybe just maybe he might lose his job should Big Fat Sam and his sh*tty depleted Rovers team replicate Blackpools win.

The more I thought about it at the weekend one of the reason I initially liked Roy was because I thought he might be decent with the press. Hes actually a dud, a complete dud, his grand well spoken persona is just a mask for a failed, well traveled manager whose 30 years in the job culminated in a Uefa cup final with fulham. What the f*ck did people see in him and how have people not seen through his lack of success? The fact that hes touted for England is even more laughable. People say hes traveled all over the world and experienced many leagues. That's because hes f*cking rarely lasted in a job long enough so hes f*cked off to another country to fail there too.

With each day hes here is making me angrier and angrier.  I just dont know how anyone thought he had the credentials to run this club   
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 12:57:28 AM
tough game at bolton.  A draw if we are lucky.

and I can see chelsea beating us 2 or 3 nil at anfield.

then away to wigan and away to stoke......home to west ham.

I think wigan or stoke could see roy fired.

Do you know what I find so hard to understand is why it seems the Liverpool board cant see to make two decent decisions in a row. Give Roy the job (bad move, he will have to be sacked at a later date), get rid of H&G (good move), Roys still here and doing sh*t( since the H&G are gone it should be a new dawn yet now we have to wait for Roy to eventually f*ck up enough, get the sack before a new manager can come in and give the club the new dawn they would have when Hicks and gillett left and if there was a proper manager in place)

Hodgson out
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 01:45:15 AM
From this day forth Roy shall be known to me as "the conman" as a result of his trail of con jobs across Europe where he successfully posed and was perceived by others to be a top class manager.

This could be a case for the Rouge Traders team;

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/images/446_rogue_traders.jpg) 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 26, 2010, 08:48:03 AM
Juan,

Do you find it difficult to express yourself without using swear words? And I really don't care much for your avatar either.  :(
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 11:48:16 AM
Juan,

Do you find it difficult to express yourself without using swear words? And I really don't care much for your avatar either.  :(

I'm not in a regular habit of overly using profanities on a daily basis either at home, work or any environment for that matter. Like anyone on here an odd word here or there can stray into a post from time to time.  But sometimes when a little steam builds and builds and continues to build without knowing it eventually your top blows and to be honest that's the point I reached last night with Roy. So apologies if my language has offended you.

As far as my avatar to be honest when I saw it I thought it was humorous, it was definitely never meant to offend. As a matter of interest is it the language you dont like, the message it conveys in general?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 12:02:08 PM
ASI I have altered my Avatar to read Flock, although the L and the O are probably no so visible.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 26, 2010, 01:57:36 PM
I'm not in a regular habit of overly using profanities on a daily basis either at home, work or any environment for that matter. Like anyone on here an odd word here or there can stray into a post from time to time.  But sometimes when a little steam builds and builds and continues to build without knowing it eventually your top blows and to be honest that's the point I reached last night with Roy. So apologies if my language has offended you.
We all swear from time to time but I rarely if ever swear on public forums. You don't normally but it was very evident when I read your posts this morning. I'm not sure why you're so annoyed. We did win on Sunday and whilst I still want Roy to be replaced I don't feel the need to rant on about him. I'm not sure why you do. Wait until a CE has been appointed and then things will be in place for a decision to be made.

Regarding swearing in posts I just feel it adds nothing to your argument and probably detracts from points you're trying to make. Why not delay posting until you've calmed down a bit?

Quote
As far as my avatar to be honest when I saw it I thought it was humorous, it was definitely never meant to offend. As a matter of interest is it the language you dont like, the message it conveys in general?
Whatever your views on Roy I think it's disrespectful to 'tell' anyone to eff off. Maybe it's the age difference? And I still feel your edited avatar does you no credit. But that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 26, 2010, 02:04:31 PM
The sorry thing about it Tes they wont be just stories. Jim himself has it on good grounds that there is a split between the players at the club as was reported in the papers. With Hodgson here I dont see Reina and Torres hanging around. They want to learn from the best, improve their careers, Roy is Mr f*cking average and always will be. So much for Shanklys aim for the sky and all that. Roy is a dud. I am now so furious that hes still here.
But Jim hasn't come back with any further news on that front so I'm wondering how accurate his source was. Why wouldn't Reina and Torres stay now that we are under new ownership? They've both shown their dedication to the club in recent months and I'm sure Reina's annoyance over the coach issue can be resolved. And with transfer funds available in Jan and next summer things could turn around very quickly. I'd be amazed if anyone asked to leave in Jan although Babel will probably be sold.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 26, 2010, 02:32:06 PM
Juan, I know exactly how you feel mate.  I too am not happy but I think ASI is correct.  This is a public forum and god forbid we end up like other sites out there......

On a side note there is a part of the forum that Jim has made accessible to certain members "Off The Record".  I think that maybe a good place to vent frustration providing you have access of course  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 02:32:23 PM
But Jim hasn't come back with any further news on that front so I'm wondering how accurate his source was. Why wouldn't Reina and Torres stay now that we are under new ownership? They've both shown their dedication to the club in recent months and I'm sure Reina's annoyance over the coach issue can be resolved. And with transfer funds available in Jan and next summer things could turn around very quickly. I'd be amazed if anyone asked to leave in Jan although Babel will probably be sold.

I think the problem is that modern foreign players have been schooled in a very different way to the methods coaches of Hodgson's generation offer, likewise though  to a lesser extent, coaches like Mick McCarthy.
'Mr Ferguson' despite being stratospherically successful in comparison, realised this applied in some degree to himself, which was the reason he gave for bringing in Queiroz.
My worry with having Hodgson as 'the figurehead' is we may struggle to keep hold of and definately attract the sort of players we need.
This is one of the reasons why I so heavily favour Pellegrini. He has the ability to technically develop players. That I think is definately an attraction to a lot of players, more so than in the past, in addition to their chances of success within the team framework.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 02:35:32 PM
Juan, I know exactly how you feel mate.  I too am not happy but I think ASI is correct.  This is a public forum and god forbid we end up like other sites out there......

On a side note there is a part of the forum that Jim has made accessible to certain members "Off The Record".  I think that maybe a good place to vent frustration providing you have access of course  ;D

Gurdeep, there's something I keep meaning to ask. Why is the banana sad?  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2010, 02:40:34 PM
This is one of the reasons why I so heavily favour Pellegrini. He has the ability to technically develop players. That I think is definately an attraction to a lot of players, more so than in the past, in addition to their chances of success within the team framework.

yes, pellegrini will also get a lot of respect from our present latin lads - reina, maxi, torres, etc. 

Plus, he will be well known to future buys from latin europe/america.

 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
yes, pellegrini will also get a lot of respect from our present latin lads - reina, maxi, torres, etc. 

Plus, he will be well known to future buys from latin europe/america.

 

I think most players will be aware of his reputation and what he did with Villareal's players. Can the same be said of Halmstad '76 and '79?

I know I shouldn't but here's an extract of Roy's Wiki page. I'm not laughing at Roy, but rather the language used on the page:

Hodgson has also coached many notable club sides, including Malmö FF, Bristol City, Viking FK, Halmstads BK, Maidstone United, Internazionale, Blackburn Rovers, Grasshopper, Copenhagen, Udinese, Fulham, and now Liverpool F.C..
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2010, 03:08:05 PM
Hodgson has also coached many notable club sides, including Malmö FF, Bristol City, Viking FK, Halmstads BK, Maidstone United, Internazionale, Blackburn Rovers, Grasshopper, Copenhagen, Udinese, Fulham, and now Liverpool F.C..

oh I know - and to think we sacked rafa benitez (one of the world's finest managers) for someone of this pedigree.

*shaking head*
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 26, 2010, 03:25:28 PM
oh I know - and to think we sacked rafa benitez (one of the world's finest managers) for someone of this pedigree.

*shaking head*

Dude, he was without doubt an excellent Euro tactician but he wasn't the best of judges when it came to buying players but he was far too political which is why he was dispensed with - right or wrong.

We all remember the great European nights but there were some dreadful league performances and his decision to replace Torres at Birmingham last season (4 days ahead of a Euro game) when we were losing and needed the points showed he predominantly favoured Europe over the Premier League.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2010, 03:34:21 PM
Dude, he was without doubt an excellent Euro tactician but he wasn't the best of judges when it came to buying players but he was far too political which is why he was dispensed with - right or wrong.

We all remember the great European nights but there were some dreadful league performances and his decision to replace Torres at Birmingham last season (4 days ahead of a Euro game) when we were losing and needed the points showed he predominantly favoured Europe over the Premier League.

along with his sidekick, Paco, he was among europe's top 3 or 4 coaches, asi

and we sacked him for woy........incredible, absolutely incredible.

but I do agree with you re him being way way too political........someone needed to sit down with him and tell him the liverpool way (don't wash dirty laundry in public).
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 26, 2010, 03:59:57 PM
Gurdeep, there's something I keep meaning to ask. Why is the banana sad?  ;D

Can be open to interpretation my friend.....the one I'm currently using is Broughton and Hicks  :P :P :P
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 26, 2010, 04:57:43 PM
along with his sidekick, Paco, he was among europe's top 3 or 4 coaches, asi

and we sacked him for woy........incredible, absolutely incredible.
He was but don't you think he lost something after paco left?

Quote
but I do agree with you re him being way way too political........someone needed to sit down with him and tell him the liverpool way (don't wash dirty laundry in public).
For a man who tried to absorb all things Liverpudlian he certainly got that very wrong. But I'm sure there are things that went on which we will only learn about when the autobiographies come out.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on October 26, 2010, 05:59:25 PM
He was but don't you think he lost something after paco left?

It was all downhill for Rafa after he broke up with Paco. It'll be very interesting to see if he'll ever win a trophy again witout him. His best bet will probably be winning Serie A this season, although that will mostly be down to the work of Mourinho.

I feel for Juan. I know exactly how you feel mate. Been there, felt that, just not after a quarter of a season. It'll be some time before you get your wishes come true. I'm confident we'll win both at Reebok and against the Chavs. In fact, and as I've constantly repeated on here, I think we'll do better this season than we did last.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2010, 06:02:55 PM
He was but don't you think he lost something after paco left?
For a man who tried to absorb all things Liverpudlian he certainly got that very wrong. But I'm sure there are things that went on which we will only learn about when the autobiographies come out.

yes, I think he was a double act, along with Paco.   I have my suspicion that he is now a shadow of what he was (now without his sidekick).

the problem with player autobiographies, is that 99 percent of players have not got the first idea about football mgt.   Plus, they spin a different yarn when it suits. 

e.g. look at kieron dyer's spin on working with sir bobby robson http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/brian-mcnally/Brian-McNally-column-Why-I-wont-forgive-hypocrite-Kieron-Dyer-for-his-role-in-Bobby-Robsons-Newcastle-demise-article611255.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/brian-mcnally/Brian-McNally-column-Why-I-wont-forgive-hypocrite-Kieron-Dyer-for-his-role-in-Bobby-Robsons-Newcastle-demise-article611255.html)


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 06:49:53 PM
Whatever your views on Roy I think it's disrespectful to 'tell' anyone to eff off.

That is true ASI it is disrespectful and although the way I said it wasnt by the most appropriate means my opinion on Roy hasnt changed and nor can I see it changing.

Maybe I am picking up the disrespectful traits from Roy himself  ;D, firstly his rant at the scandanavian media and then his rant at Rijjkard. Anyway I never realised the will to have him ousted was so strong, the link below is an article to do with Roys rant towards the journalist but thats not the point of posting the link. Mid way down on the site there was a poll done on whether people wanted Roy to stay or go. 2,892 voters in total, 2,315 wanted him to go, 175 wanted to give him more time, 59 voters saw him as the future. Marting did you vote 59 times?  ;D

http://lfcglobe.com/hodgson-attacks-norwegian-journalist-following-everton-defeat/5782/
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 06:54:21 PM
But Jim hasn't come back with any further news on that front so I'm wondering how accurate his source was. Why wouldn't Reina and Torres stay now that we are under new ownership? They've both shown their dedication to the club in recent months and I'm sure Reina's annoyance over the coach issue can be resolved. And with transfer funds available in Jan and next summer things could turn around very quickly. I'd be amazed if anyone asked to leave in Jan although Babel will probably be sold.

To answer your question ASI neither player might feel Roy is good enough to take this club to where they want their careers to be. I think if someone who has proven to be as loyal as Reina is questioning the manager then thats when people should stand up and take notice. Both players could also walk into any team in the world with the exception of possibly one or two.

Its not the January transfer window i would be worried about ASI, its the summer.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 07:38:32 PM
I'm not sure why you're so annoyed.

Just to touch quickly on why im now so mad at Roys mismanaging the club.

I was looking at the whole situation again and trying to figure out why was there such a fuss about Roy this year and why he was in such demand at club and International level. I accept that he was the reason for Fulhams monumental achievement of getting fulham to the Uefa Cup final. After that I was stumped. Theres nothing there for me that suggests he should even have been considered for the Liverpool role.

Then on the other hand I looked at what Benitez achieved so far in his career, the major difference between him and Roy was that Benitez had the experience of winning a Champions League, beating Barca and Real to the Spanish league, won domestic cups and even did what Roy couldnt do winning the Uefa cup.  The more and more I thought about the sheer stupidity of replacing a young successful manager with an old unsuccessful one just because of one poor season the madder I became.

In time when the whole pro - anti Benitez slant on things dies down and people look at his achievement and match them to what Roy has achieved I am sure people will wonder who was in charge to let decisions like that occur. Its nonsensical and was down to personality clashes more than anything else. We should have learned from Valencias mistake of letting Rafa go but Purslow was more than happy to to let his personal relationship with Benitez get in the way of the good of the club.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on October 26, 2010, 07:49:44 PM
Ex-Real Madrid coach Manuel Pellegrini says Liverpool contacted him
October 26, 2010

Former Real Madrid coach Manuel Pellegrini says he has been contacted by Liverpool regarding the possibility of replacing Roy Hodgson as manager.

"I had lots of offers, some that I like. Ideally, I would like to find a club in December," Pellegrini told the Spanish press.

"Yes, Liverpool contacted me. It is a great club with many Spanish players who I already know, and it is my intention to work in the Premier League."

A poor start to the season has meant Hodgson's future has been the subject of much speculation since the takeover by NESV, even though Liverpool's new owners have backed him publicly.

Liverpool claimed only their second win of the season on Sunday against Blackburn, and lie in 18th place in the Premier League.


The plot thickens.......

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 07:52:07 PM
It was all downhill for Rafa after he broke up with Paco. It'll be very interesting to see if he'll ever win a trophy again witout him. His best bet will probably be winning Serie A this season, although that will mostly be down to the work of Mourinho.

I feel for Juan. I know exactly how you feel mate. Been there, felt that, just not after a quarter of a season. It'll be some time before you get your wishes come true. I'm confident we'll win both at Reebok and against the Chavs. In fact, and as I've constantly repeated on here, I think we'll do better this season than we did last.

Cheers Martin, although we dont really agree on too much with roy I respect where your coming from.

As always I have to disagree with you on Paco. I accept Rafa did lose out when Paco left and Rafa was probably too stubborn  to patch things up but Liverpools second place finish surely proved that Rafa could go it alone.

I think its funny when people blame previous coaches for current troubles. In fairness to Rafa he only finished 7th last year not 17th, a place above where we currently sit. So while you blame him for Roys current woe you also refuse to give him credit for the job hes doing at Inter. Benitez cant win. If Rafa was English he would be manager of the century for everything hes achieved to date.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 07:53:42 PM
Ex-Real Madrid coach Manuel Pellegrini says Liverpool contacted him
October 26, 2010

Former Real Madrid coach Manuel Pellegrini says he has been contacted by Liverpool regarding the possibility of replacing Roy Hodgson as manager.

"I had lots of offers, some that I like. Ideally, I would like to find a club in December," Pellegrini told the Spanish press.

"Yes, Liverpool contacted me. It is a great club with many Spanish players who I already know, and it is my intention to work in the Premier League."

A poor start to the season has meant Hodgson's future has been the subject of much speculation since the takeover by NESV, even though Liverpool's new owners have backed him publicly.

Liverpool claimed only their second win of the season on Sunday against Blackburn, and lie in 18th place in the Premier League.


The plot thickens.......

That looks like its an article replicated from a story with his agent last week. Maybe Pelligrini is just making hes not forgotten. He would be the man to take us places.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 08:28:46 PM
Can be open to interpretation my friend.....the one I'm currently using is Broughton and Hicks  :P :P :P

Broughton and Hicks 'spooning'?   *shudders* *shudders again* *vomits*   :D

At last Broughton is top banana. Hicks is the horribly brown, over-ripe kind.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 08:51:36 PM
along with his sidekick, Paco, he was among europe's top 3 or 4 coaches, asi

and we sacked him for woy........incredible, absolutely incredible.

but I do agree with you re him being way way too political........someone needed to sit down with him and tell him the liverpool way (don't wash dirty laundry in public).


Quote
He was but don't you think he lost something after paco left?

Quote
It was all downhill for Rafa after he broke up with Paco. It'll be very interesting to see if he'll ever win a trophy again witout him. His best bet will probably be winning Serie A this season, although that will mostly be down to the work of Mourinho.


Pedantic Pete says: Pako Ayestaran was his assistant.  Paco Herrera was the head scout and assistant coach.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2010, 08:53:10 PM
some research

Pelligini

Honours as a Manager

Universidad Católica, Copa Interamericana: 1994, Copa Chile: 1995

LDU Quito, Serie A: 1999

San Lorenzo, Primera División: 2001 Clausura, Copa Mercosur: 2001

River Plate, Primera División: 2003 Clausura

Villarreal, UEFA Intertoto Cup: 2004


hmmmm, he hasn't exactly won much.  11 years since anything of note - and that was in south america......and in these past 10 years in europe, all he has won is the intertoto cup (in 2004)

I am reviewing my decision and am going back to Hiddink (for the anfield hotseat).

FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE: LIVERPOOL BOARD (Lord Tes & Sir Rupert Dude) SPLIT ON MANAGER CHOICE
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2010, 08:54:54 PM
Pedantic Pete says: Pako Ayestaran was his assistant.  Paco Herrera was the head scout and assistant coach.

PAKO sounds right.  I mix them all up and use both PAKO and PACO to cover my tracks. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 09:05:16 PM
I was looking at the whole situation again and trying to figure out why was there such a fuss about Roy this year and why he was in such demand at club and International level. I accept that he was the reason for Fulhams monumental achievement of getting fulham to the Uefa Cup final. After that I was stumped. Theres nothing there for me that suggests he should even have been considered for the Liverpool role.


Simple, Juan. The media. The media in this country are so desperate for an English manager to be successful, that they build up any 'success', blow it out of all proportion and conveniently do away with any form of context.

Roy was successful for Fulham. Fulham were successful for Fulham. The know nothings then simply think that can be translated into the same at a much bigger club.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 09:07:03 PM
PAKO sounds right.  I mix them all up and use both PAKO and PACO to cover my tracks.

From now on he'll simply be known as 'Packo'.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2010, 09:09:26 PM
From now on he'll simply be known as 'Packo'.

 :D

Packo Punch, our Spanish top agent
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 09:12:18 PM
Simple, Juan. The media. The media in this country are so desperate for an English manager to be successful, that they build up any 'success', blow it out of all proportion and conveniently do away with any form of context.

Roy was successful for Fulham. Fulham were successful for Fulham. The know nothings then simply think that can be translated into the same at a much bigger club.

Its a shame Tes. When you decide to replace someone like Rafa who achieved what he achieved you dont do it lightly. You ensure whoever is to take his place has all the attributes to be a marked improvement. The board missed their opportunity and the crisis has now moved away from the boardroom and back onto the pitch. Why cant both be run in harmony?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2010, 09:21:59 PM
Its a shame Tes. When you decide to replace someone like Rafa who achieved what he achieved you dont do it lightly. You ensure whoever is to take his place has all the attributes to be a marked improvement. The board missed their opportunity and the crisis has now moved away from the boardroom and back onto the pitch. Why cant both be run in harmony?

big well-performing clubs that have consistency, have top expertise in the boardroom, Juan.

we have not had that these past 20 years.

moores and parry did real well to bring in Benitez.  But apart from Benitez, what top manager have our board appointed since Bob Paisley 36 years ago.

oh for a peter robinson and john smith on the board.

this is why I would love to see someone like david dein at anfield.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 09:29:02 PM
big well-performing clubs that have consistency, have top expertise in the boardroom, Juan.

we have not had that these past 20 years.

moores and parry did real well to bring in Benitez.  But apart from Benitez, what top manager have our board appointed since Bob Paisley 36 years ago.

oh for a peter robinson and john smith on the board.

this is why I would love to see someone like david dein at anfield.

David Dein would be the man. Its a possibility but not probable.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 09:35:08 PM
some research

Pelligini

Honours as a Manager

Universidad Católica, Copa Interamericana: 1994, Copa Chile: 1995

LDU Quito, Serie A: 1999

San Lorenzo, Primera División: 2001 Clausura, Copa Mercosur: 2001

River Plate, Primera División: 2003 Clausura

Villarreal, UEFA Intertoto Cup: 2004


hmmmm, he hasn't exactly won much.  11 years since anything of note - and that was in south america......and in these past 10 years in europe, all he has won is the intertoto cup (in 2004)

I am reviewing my decision and am going back to Hiddink (for the anfield hotseat).

FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE: LIVERPOOL BOARD (Lord Tes & Sir Rupert Dude) SPLIT ON MANAGER CHOICE

Dude, take a lot at Hiddink's club record. *cringes*

Pellegrini's methods and style of play would be most beneficial both individually and in terms of best utilising the players we've got. His style is similar to that of Ancellotti in many ways. Players such as Malouda have flourished under Ancellotti, much the same way as Forlan benefitted from Pellegrini's coaching.

Ancellotti had seriously gone off the boil at Milan. In terms of footballing style and ethos, Ancellotti was regarded as far too attack minded in Italy, despite having Milan playing a style closer to catenaccio than would be regarded as say a more Spanish freer flowing style. He's taken his style and beliefs and expanded them somewhat at Chelsea and the results aren't too shoddy.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 09:36:51 PM
big well-performing clubs that have consistency, have top expertise in the boardroom, Juan.

we have not had that these past 20 years.

moores and parry did real well to bring in Benitez.  But apart from Benitez, what top manager have our board appointed since Bob Paisley 36 years ago.

oh for a peter robinson and john smith on the board.

this is why I would love to see someone like david dein at anfield.

Panel pin with sledge hammer.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 09:51:18 PM
Its a shame Tes. When you decide to replace someone like Rafa who achieved what he achieved you dont do it lightly. You ensure whoever is to take his place has all the attributes to be a marked improvement. The board missed their opportunity and the crisis has now moved away from the boardroom and back onto the pitch. Why cant both be run in harmony?

Exactly. Pursestrings or whoever was responsible for the decision (though I can't see who else it would have been) had Dalglish there and should have been totally guided by his area of expertise. I'm sure there would have been other ex club people he could have also ask for advice, the likes of Roy Evans or John Toshack. People who had been around and seen at first hand 'the greats', how they functioned and what was required.  Unfortunately, some people aren't prepared to acknowledge their own limitations to their expertise in certain areas and be humble enough to be guided by those with much greater knowledge. They see asking for help as a sign of weakness, when the real weakness is not having the strength of character to ask for help and advice.
I think both execution and coronation were driven largely by either following the media line or pandering to it. I think it was also driven by board politics and not driven by onfield requirements.

One of the strongest elements of our past success was you replaced with better. If better didn't exist or wasn't available you didn't replace, except when forced to, Souness (the player) being a prime case of forced replacement and not neccessarily betterment.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 26, 2010, 10:30:33 PM
Exactly. Pursestrings or whoever was responsible for the decision (though I can't see who else it would have been) had Dalglish there and should have been totally guided by his area of expertise. I'm sure there would have been other ex club people he could have also ask for advice, the likes of Roy Evans or John Toshack. People who had been around and seen at first hand 'the greats', how they functioned and what was required.  Unfortunately, some people aren't prepared to acknowledge their own limitations to their expertise in certain areas and be humble enough to be guided by those with much greater knowledge. They see asking for help as a sign of weakness, when the real weakness is not having the strength of character to ask for help and advice.
I think both execution and coronation were driven largely by either following the media line or pandering to it. I think it was also driven by board politics and not driven by onfield requirements.

One of the strongest elements of our past success was you replaced with better. If better didn't exist or wasn't available you didn't replace, except when forced to, Souness (the player) being a prime case of forced replacement and not neccessarily betterment.

Definitely Tes.

I think the most damning indictment of the whole summer saga was Kenny throwing his name in the ring. He didnt do so for some romantic notion of unfinished personal business. He looked at Hodgson and knew he wasnt good enough. But as we know Kennys pleas fell on deaf ears.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2010, 10:45:15 PM
Definitely Tes.

I think the most damning indictment of the whole summer saga was Kenny throwing his name in the ring. He didnt do so for some romantic notion of unfinished personal business. He looked at Hodgson and knew he wasnt good enough. But as we know Kennys pleas fell on deaf ears.

Maybe that backs up the political aspect surrounding any appointment they had in mind. Not convinced about Kenny unless he had an assistant more versed in the sports science and modern tactical thinking. Then, maybe in would have been a goer. Then again, as far as the Premiership at least goes, progressive, technical football is certainly the route to success and Kenny did put together a Liverpool team well versed in that.
I guess I just don't want the legend being tainted in any way.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2010, 11:29:55 PM
Dude, take a lot at Hiddink's club record. *cringes*

Pellegrini's methods and style of play would be most beneficial both individually and in terms of best utilising the players we've got. His style is similar to that of Ancellotti in many ways. Players such as Malouda have flourished under Ancellotti, much the same way as Forlan benefitted from Pellegrini's coaching.

Ancellotti had seriously gone off the boil at Milan. In terms of footballing style and ethos, Ancellotti was regarded as far too attack minded in Italy, despite having Milan playing a style closer to catenaccio than would be regarded as say a more Spanish freer flowing style. He's taken his style and beliefs and expanded them somewhat at Chelsea and the results aren't too shoddy.

hiddink's record is better than pele's, tes.

tho he tends to be a mercenary (moving from job to job) - which is what we do not need.

I am not convinced re pele.  There are winners and there are also-rans.  Raniera, Roy Evans, Hodgson, etc are all top men....but they never get the girl.

People like Mourinhio, Benitez, Fergie and Ancellotti get the girl.


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 26, 2010, 11:48:11 PM
To answer your question ASI neither player might feel Roy is good enough to take this club to where they want their careers to be. I think if someone who has proven to be as loyal as Reina is questioning the manager then thats when people should stand up and take notice. Both players could also walk into any team in the world with the exception of possibly one or two.
That is true. Time will tell I suppose. But if LFC keeps winning then maybe they will feel different and if we don't then Roy will go. Too early to say after one decent 70 minute performance. But I think both will still be here in 12 months. Mark this thread if you ant to discuss it then.

Quote
Its not the January transfer window i would be worried about ASI, its the summer.
All depends on where we finish. Too much water to flow under the bridge to speculate.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2010, 12:35:23 AM
possibly troubled waters ahead.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 27, 2010, 11:36:47 AM
Roy might be working with the players hes got by the looks of it and the stories are been carried in two papers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8088587/Liverpool-to-stay-clear-of-big-money-signings-in-January-transfer-window.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/hodgson-to-be-denied-big-signing-in-january-2117523.html

Liverpool to stay clear of big-money signings in January transfer window
Roy Hodgson will not target any marquee signings in the January transfer window as Liverpool's new owner, New England Sports Ventures, looks to put a stop to the profligate spending which it believes has hampered the club's progress in recent years.

NESV is believed to have been concerned by the millions of pounds haemorrhaged on transfer fees and wages by the club in recent years as it examined Liverpool's finances as part of the due diligence process carried out before the £300 million purchase of the Anfield side was completed.

Under Rafael Benítez, Liverpool spent more than £230 million in six years on fees alone – though much of that was recouped in sales – while the purchases of the likes of Raul Meireles, Christian Poulsen, Brad Jones and Paul Konchesky totalled £25 million in Hodgson's first summer at the club.
 
   
Though NESV's takeover freed up £36 million a year of revenue that had previously been used to service Liverpool's £282 million debts to be reinvested into the club, and though its offer did make provision for an immediate injection of funds into the playing staff, the American consortium has made it clear it expects value for money, both from fees and salaries.

"We have to be smart," John W Henry, NESV's principal backer, who will assume a place on Liverpool's board, said after the deal was completed.

"We have to be more efficient. When we spend a dollar it has to be wisely. We cannot afford player contracts that do not make long-term sense. We have to be smart, bold, aggressive. It's a great challenge."

Henry will take an active role in football matters at Anfield, assessing both Hodgson's suggested transfer targets and setting budgets for contract renegotiations of players already at the club.

The 61 year-old has already expressed his concern at the wages earned by older players on long-term, high-value contracts.

NESV's approach – applied with great success at the Boston Red Sox – is likely to rule Liverpool out of the glamour signings which many fans hoped would follow the eviction of previous owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

Instead, the club's recent scouting activity suggests they intend to follow the a*senal model – for which NESV has been keen to stress its admiration – or, perhaps more pertinently, institute on an informal basis the transfer policy employed at Manchester United, where premium fees are only paid for younger players with resale potential.

"At the Boston Red Sox, we invested a lot in management and the scouting system," said NESV chairman Tom Werner.

"We believe the foundation of any good sports club has to be the experience, valuation and understanding of scouting, so we will invest in that as well."

Those players assessed by Hodgson and his scouting team in recent weeks include Steven Defour, the Standard Liège captain and a long-term target for the Liverpool manager.

At 22, and around £12 million, Defour represents minimum risk for maximum reward.

Likewise Ibrahim Afellay, the PSV Eindhoven winger Liverpool whom have assessed on several occasions.

Already a Dutch international at 24 and heralded for several years as one of the brightest prospects in Europe, Afellay would fall within Liverpool's budget, while his wage demands would remain comparatively modest.

More expensive would be Eden Hazard, Defour's Belgian international team-mate, currently with Lille.

The 19 year-old has attracted interest from Barcelona, Real Madrid, a*senal, Chelsea and United, and could cost as much as £18 million.

However, Liverpool believe they can tempt the player – who is likely to be advised by his agent to seek a move to a club where he will play regular first-team football – and Kenny Dalglish was watching when the French side played Levski Sofia in the Europa League last Thursday.

Hodgson will not be allowed to add any players, though, without first trimming the squad. Liverpool boast the fourth-highest wage bill in the Premier League – standing at £107 million in 2009, according to football finance analysts Deloitte – but find themselves marooned in 18th place in the table, having finished seventh in Benítez's last campaign.

NESV does not blame Hodgson for that poor performance so far this season, but rather interprets it as evidence that many of the squad do not warrant either their reputations or their earnings.

Henry's experience as a futures trader, as well as his noted obsession with both sporting and financial statistics, put him in a perfect position to analyse such information.

He is acutely aware that figures suggest that, with almost unerring accuracy, a club's league position is defined by their wage bill. That Liverpool's key statistics are so discordant suggests the money is not being spent wisely.

He is also a devotee of Sabermetrics, the statistical analysis of the value of baseball players, pioneered by Bill James and which led Henry to appoint Theo Epstein as a general manager of the Boston Red Sox in 2002 at the age of 28.

Epstein applied James's principles – which are designed to help poorer teams identify value-for-money acquisitions – to lead the franchise to two World Series with a squad largely composed of bargain purchases.

Initial impressions of his time at Liverpool suggest he retains his faith in the method.

Seven deals that would not have happened under NESV regime

Fernando Morientes
The Spanish international, signed for £6.3 million as a 28 year-old in January 2005, failed miserably at Anfield, scoring just 12 goals in 61 appearances. NESV’s belief in signing young players would have precluded the deal.

Robbie Keane
Signed as a 28 year-old for £20.3 million in 2008, the Irish international would also have been judged by NESV to be too old to warrant such a premium fee.

Alberto Aquilani
Though the Italian international’s age (26) and pedigree would have still made him a legitimate target, concerns over his injury record would have ruled out a £17 million move for the Roma player, now on loan at Juventus.

Jamie Carragher
John W Henry may have been concerned by the sight of a 32 year-old being handed a lucrative two-year contract just before NESV completed its takeover.

Maxi Rodríguez
The Argentine international, age 29, came on a free transfer from Atlético Madrid boasting a fine pedigree, but his wages, believed to be around £70,000 a week until June 2013, may have discouraged NESV from such a long contract.

Paul Konchesky
A four-year contract for a 29 year-old – as well as a £5 million fee – does not match the profile of deal NESV believes can help Liverpool develop in the long-term.

Roy Hodgson
A three-year contract for a 63 year old - no track record of success in any major league in the world - NESV could have rightly mistaken Roy's application as being for the role of Melwood's chief dinner lady. He's made a meal of most jobs up to now.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 27, 2010, 12:42:33 PM
Roy might be working with the players hes got by the looks of it and the stories are been carried in two papers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8088587/Liverpool-to-stay-clear-of-big-money-signings-in-January-transfer-window.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/hodgson-to-be-denied-big-signing-in-january-2117523.html

Liverpool to stay clear of big-money signings in January transfer window
Roy Hodgson will not target any marquee signings in the January transfer window as Liverpool's new owner, New England Sports Ventures, looks to put a stop to the profligate spending which it believes has hampered the club's progress in recent years.

NESV is believed to have been concerned by the millions of pounds haemorrhaged on transfer fees and wages by the club in recent years as it examined Liverpool's finances as part of the due diligence process carried out before the £300 million purchase of the Anfield side was completed.

Under Rafael Benítez, Liverpool spent more than £230 million in six years on fees alone – though much of that was recouped in sales – while the purchases of the likes of Raul Meireles, Christian Poulsen, Brad Jones and Paul Konchesky totalled £25 million in Hodgson's first summer at the club.
 
   
Though NESV's takeover freed up £36 million a year of revenue that had previously been used to service Liverpool's £282 million debts to be reinvested into the club, and though its offer did make provision for an immediate injection of funds into the playing staff, the American consortium has made it clear it expects value for money, both from fees and salaries.

"We have to be smart," John W Henry, NESV's principal backer, who will assume a place on Liverpool's board, said after the deal was completed.

"We have to be more efficient. When we spend a dollar it has to be wisely. We cannot afford player contracts that do not make long-term sense. We have to be smart, bold, aggressive. It's a great challenge."

Henry will take an active role in football matters at Anfield, assessing both Hodgson's suggested transfer targets and setting budgets for contract renegotiations of players already at the club.

The 61 year-old has already expressed his concern at the wages earned by older players on long-term, high-value contracts.

NESV's approach – applied with great success at the Boston Red Sox – is likely to rule Liverpool out of the glamour signings which many fans hoped would follow the eviction of previous owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

Instead, the club's recent scouting activity suggests they intend to follow the a*senal model – for which NESV has been keen to stress its admiration – or, perhaps more pertinently, institute on an informal basis the transfer policy employed at Manchester United, where premium fees are only paid for younger players with resale potential.

"At the Boston Red Sox, we invested a lot in management and the scouting system," said NESV chairman Tom Werner.

"We believe the foundation of any good sports club has to be the experience, valuation and understanding of scouting, so we will invest in that as well."

Those players assessed by Hodgson and his scouting team in recent weeks include Steven Defour, the Standard Liège captain and a long-term target for the Liverpool manager.

At 22, and around £12 million, Defour represents minimum risk for maximum reward.

Likewise Ibrahim Afellay, the PSV Eindhoven winger Liverpool whom have assessed on several occasions.

Already a Dutch international at 24 and heralded for several years as one of the brightest prospects in Europe, Afellay would fall within Liverpool's budget, while his wage demands would remain comparatively modest.

More expensive would be Eden Hazard, Defour's Belgian international team-mate, currently with Lille.

The 19 year-old has attracted interest from Barcelona, Real Madrid, a*senal, Chelsea and United, and could cost as much as £18 million.

However, Liverpool believe they can tempt the player – who is likely to be advised by his agent to seek a move to a club where he will play regular first-team football – and Kenny Dalglish was watching when the French side played Levski Sofia in the Europa League last Thursday.

Hodgson will not be allowed to add any players, though, without first trimming the squad. Liverpool boast the fourth-highest wage bill in the Premier League – standing at £107 million in 2009, according to football finance analysts Deloitte – but find themselves marooned in 18th place in the table, having finished seventh in Benítez's last campaign.

NESV does not blame Hodgson for that poor performance so far this season, but rather interprets it as evidence that many of the squad do not warrant either their reputations or their earnings.

Henry's experience as a futures trader, as well as his noted obsession with both sporting and financial statistics, put him in a perfect position to analyse such information.

He is acutely aware that figures suggest that, with almost unerring accuracy, a club's league position is defined by their wage bill. That Liverpool's key statistics are so discordant suggests the money is not being spent wisely.

He is also a devotee of Sabermetrics, the statistical analysis of the value of baseball players, pioneered by Bill James and which led Henry to appoint Theo Epstein as a general manager of the Boston Red Sox in 2002 at the age of 28.

Epstein applied James's principles – which are designed to help poorer teams identify value-for-money acquisitions – to lead the franchise to two World Series with a squad largely composed of bargain purchases.

Initial impressions of his time at Liverpool suggest he retains his faith in the method.

Seven deals that would not have happened under NESV regime

Fernando Morientes
The Spanish international, signed for £6.3 million as a 28 year-old in January 2005, failed miserably at Anfield, scoring just 12 goals in 61 appearances. NESV’s belief in signing young players would have precluded the deal.

Robbie Keane
Signed as a 28 year-old for £20.3 million in 2008, the Irish international would also have been judged by NESV to be too old to warrant such a premium fee.

Alberto Aquilani
Though the Italian international’s age (26) and pedigree would have still made him a legitimate target, concerns over his injury record would have ruled out a £17 million move for the Roma player, now on loan at Juventus.

Jamie Carragher
John W Henry may have been concerned by the sight of a 32 year-old being handed a lucrative two-year contract just before NESV completed its takeover.

Maxi Rodríguez
The Argentine international, age 29, came on a free transfer from Atlético Madrid boasting a fine pedigree, but his wages, believed to be around £70,000 a week until June 2013, may have discouraged NESV from such a long contract.

Paul Konchesky
A four-year contract for a 29 year-old – as well as a £5 million fee – does not match the profile of deal NESV believes can help Liverpool develop in the long-term.

Roy Hodgson
A three-year contract for a 63 year old - no track record of success in any major league in the world - NESV could have rightly mistaken Roy's application as being for the role of Melwood's chief dinner lady. He's made a meal of most jobs up to now.

I don't see any problems there. We need to be smarter like Arsenal are and get ourselves outside of the current football bubble. That way when it does burst we will be in the best position to hopefully take advantage and not let Arsenal have it all to themselves.

Two players readily spring to mind that highlight the problem, Gary Cahill and Adam Johnson. Both players in positions we've needed strengthening. Both English, and it's not as though the limits came as a bolt out of the blue.
Cahill was let go by Villa for £5M. After his first season he was being valued at double that, now it's nearer treble that.
Johnson, contract due to run out at end of '09/'10 season. City bought him Jan 2010. Summer '09 he'd have been available. Since '07/'08 it's been obvious how talented he was. Would have been a much smarter purchase than Riera in Summer '08, or as a replacement in Summer '09 as Riera had already proved to be pretty average after a reasonable start. http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/liverpool-fc/the-rumour-post/msg7234/#msg7234 (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/liverpool-fc/the-rumour-post/msg7234/#msg7234)     
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on October 27, 2010, 03:38:27 PM
Someone told me today that in 66 away games as a manager in the premier league Hodgson has won 6!!!!!!Can anyone back this up with stats? Because that isnt a record for a liverpool manager
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 27, 2010, 03:44:00 PM
Welcome to my world Kopite. Id say its bang on the money. when he was at Fulham he had something like 2 wins away in 2 seasons.

He conned his way into the Liverpool job.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on October 27, 2010, 04:17:14 PM
Maybe we should give the LFC job to the Brentford manager that had a good run in the league cup this year!!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2010, 04:46:12 PM
I'd like to put myself forward.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 27, 2010, 06:58:01 PM
Maybe we should give the LFC job to the Brentford manager that had a good run in the league cup this year!!

He'd need a manager of the month award for serious consideration.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 27, 2010, 06:58:57 PM
I don't see any problems there. We need to be smarter like a*senal are and get ourselves outside of the current football bubble. That way when it does burst we will be in the best position to hopefully take advantage and not let a*senal have it all to themselves.

Two players readily spring to mind that highlight the problem, Gary Cahill and Adam Johnson. Both players in positions we've needed strengthening. Both English, and it's not as though the limits came as a bolt out of the blue.
Cahill was let go by Villa for £5M. After his first season he was being valued at double that, now it's nearer treble that.
Johnson, contract due to run out at end of '09/'10 season. City bought him Jan 2010. Summer '09 he'd have been available. Since '07/'08 it's been obvious how talented he was. Would have been a much smarter purchase than Riera in Summer '08, or as a replacement in Summer '09 as Riera had already proved to be pretty average after a reasonable start. http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/liverpool-fc/the-rumour-post/msg7234/#msg7234 (http://www.anfieldroad.co.uk/forum/liverpool-fc/the-rumour-post/msg7234/#msg7234)   

Tes the last line of that article was added in by me just in case someone takes it up with the Telegraph
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 27, 2010, 07:00:46 PM
I'd like to put myself forward.

Dude do you have some kind of award by your fellow peers, beer drinking contest, anything?

If so your under serious consideration.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 27, 2010, 08:09:22 PM
He'd need a manager of the month award for serious consideration.

Di Matteo will have one of those soon.  :D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 27, 2010, 08:15:27 PM
Dude do you have some kind of award by your fellow peers, beer drinking contest, anything?

If so your under serious consideration.

I've got a cycling proficiency badge. Does that count?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 27, 2010, 08:17:31 PM
Tes the last line of that article was added in by me just in case someone takes it up with the Telegraph

And here was me thinking the standard of factual journalism had suddenly soared.

Juan, you watch, they'll update their web page and include it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2010, 09:12:45 PM
Dude do you have some kind of award by your fellow peers, beer drinking contest, anything?

If so your under serious consideration.


let's see........unlike Woy, I always get results on my travels.

and I managed a very successful 5-a-side team (player-boss).

and after a few beers, I know everything.



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2010, 09:14:12 PM
Di Matteo will have one of those soon.  :D

i knew di matteo would get mentioned again soon.    :D

just you wait til the end of the season!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 27, 2010, 09:36:24 PM
i knew di matteo would get mentioned again soon.    :D

just you wait til the end of the season!

LMA Manager of the Year.  ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2010, 09:47:31 PM
LMA Manager of the Year.  ;D

Schaffhausen Manager of the Century more like!  :D

(he was born there - small area in switzerland)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 28, 2010, 12:13:13 AM
Schaffhausen Manager of the Century more like!  :D

(he was born there - small area in switzerland)

The Emmental Manager of Forver goes to Mr Diane Matteo
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 28, 2010, 01:24:52 AM
To lose Torres would be disaster, to lose Reina unforgivable, to lose both would be an absolute disgrace.

Although for the moment its just tabloid talk it ties in with the inside info Jim had on the pair being unhappy last weekend. I couldnt blame them for not wanting to play under Roy, hes not going to take either of their careers to the next level. I cant think of one top class player that owes a debt of gratitude to Hodgson for taking them to stardom.

Get a top manager in now to prevent the inevitable exodus. You couldnt blame them when you hear Hodgson compare Carragher to Carlos Alberto. Hes off his rockers  ???  ???  ???.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-transfer-news-Fernando-Torres-and-Pepe-Reina-are-set-use-secret-escape-clauses-to-quit-club-in-January-with-Manchester-United-Manchester-City-and-Arsenal-ready-to-pounce-article614763.html

Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina are ready to quit Liverpool in January thanks to secret escape clauses in their contracts.

The Spain internationals made the get-out agreements with their Anfield bosses in the summer when they were persuaded to stay despite the departure of Spanish boss Rafa Benitez.

Now Torres and Reina, key to Roy Hodgson’s attempts to steer the club away from the relegation zone, want out after promises of major team investment went unfulfilled.

Mirror Sport understands the pair will tell the club in December they wish to leave, with Manchester City keen on £50 million Torres and Manchester United and Arsenal pursuing £20m Reina.
Quantcast

The double whammy will devastate Liverpool fans who hoped John W Henry’s purchase of the club would bring the glory days back to Anfield.

Instead, the American has made it clear there will be no major spending in January, and with many players unhappy with the direction the club is taking under Hodgson, Torres and Reina are ready to make a move.

Torres was talked into staying in the summer when a three man delegation flew to Madrid for secret talks with with the striker’s representatives on July 14 - three days after the World Cup Final.

It is understood Torres lawyer Margarita Pilar Garay-Bret and Jose Antonio Martin were present at the meeting.

One member of the delegation remained in Madrid to speak directly with Torres before returning to Liverpool confident the Spaniard would stay.

Torres and Spanish teammate Reina - a powerful voice in the dressing room - were both poised to quit Liverpool at the time with Chelsea having tabled a £50 million bid for Torres while Arsenal had offered £20 million for Reina.

Both were upset at the lack of investment, the club’s failure to secure Champions League status and the grim reality of their Premiership title hopes.

Torres was eventually persuaded to remain at Liverpool after three days of talks - during which the delegation described in detail plans laid out specifically by Christian Purslow, the club’s chief executive who quit last week following the sale of the club.

Torres was told the new owners - that were not identified to him - were in place and ‘days’ away from completing the Liverpool takeover.

It is claimed he was told Roy Hodgson’s appointment was a temporary measure and a big name manager was already lined up - armed with a £100 million transfer kitty offered as a ‘quick fix’ to drag the club back on terms with Manchester United, Chelsea and Manchester City.

It is understood Liverpool planned to spend £50 million in the summer with a further £50 million available in January for targets no longer chasing Champions League ambitions.

Torres and Reina reluctantly agreed to stay at Anfield - but only on condition they each had an escape clause written into their contracts.

Mirror Sport can reveal the pair are now furious at the subsequent takeover - not directly with new American owner John W Henry or New England Sports Venture - but with the management team they feel misled them over the club’s future.

Hodgson has been told there will be no marquee signings in the January transfer window leaving Torres and Reina feeling they have wasted a season.

Insiders at Anfield fear that without Champions League qualification the club will struggle to make a profit - but crucially then have nothing to offer potential big name signings.

Mirror Sport revealed on Tuesday that Reina has been targeted by Sir Alex Ferguson for a sensational switch to Manchester United - and that now could happen in January.

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger will resume his quest to sign the keeper and the immediate lure of Champions League football will prove a massive draw for the World Cup winner.

Torres will have his pick of clubs - even though the ‘big’ clubs very rarely make marquee signings in January because most major players are cup tied - thanks to Liverpool’s failure to qualify for this season’s Champions League.

Representatives of Torres and Reina did not respond to attempts to contact them yesterday.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Jas_lfc on October 28, 2010, 08:36:11 AM
Without jumping the guns, I would like to say that we must not get rattled by a Mirror article. They are known for spouting s*** all the time, and mostly in cases where LFC is involved. I have read their stories in the past which can make your eyes bleed, and the current one is similar to those.

Whilst it will be disastrous to lose any of the two aforementioned, it is worse to fall in the trap of sensationalist journalism. There have been too many rumors doing rounds about things that are not true, and people are buying into it. One of the prime reasons that sites such as Kraptalk exist.

In a world where newspapers can publish incorrect data, like the recent sunday times article about our points table from the last 5 years, and get away with it we have to be careful what we believe. What I do believe is that Roy is nowhere near what we need. I cried foul when he came in, when he tried to sign Konchesky and things have proved exactly as the way most fans thought they would.

Clearly some of the important players look disappointed at the moment, but lets not take away the Torres fitness issue. He was stretching after scoring our second goal. He gets easily beaten for pace, which fuels another agenda of sky of late labeling him as not interested.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: FowlersGod on October 28, 2010, 08:53:24 AM
Without jumping the guns, I would like to say that we must not get rattled by a Mirror article. They are known for spouting s*** all the time, and mostly in cases where LFC is involved. I have read their stories in the past which can make your eyes bleed, and the current one is similar to those.

Whilst it will be disastrous to lose any of the two aforementioned, it is worse to fall in the trap of sensationalist journalism. There have been too many rumors doing rounds about things that are not true, and people are buying into it. One of the prime reasons that sites such as Kraptalk exist.

In a world where newspapers can publish incorrect data, like the recent sunday times article about our points table from the last 5 years, and get away with it we have to be careful what we believe. What I do believe is that Roy is nowhere near what we need. I cried foul when he came in, when he tried to sign Konchesky and things have proved exactly as the way most fans thought they would.

Clearly some of the important players look disappointed at the moment, but lets not take away the Torres fitness issue. He was stretching after scoring our second goal. He gets easily beaten for pace, which fuels another agenda of sky of late labeling him as not interested.

The only person that has some sort of idea of what LFC is about working for the Mirror is Brian Reade which suprises me the paper itself doesn't get him involved more in that side of things.

As for Sky, they had and always had an agenda against LFC after all Murdoch does own it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 28, 2010, 12:16:56 PM
Welcome Welcome Jas_lfc, fowlersGod.

Totally agree on the Mirror and most other tabloids for that matter, I normally wouldnt waste my breath. The Mirror post this as an exclusive but dont even provide quotes or one element of proof. The only reason I think there could be an element of truth to this story is because Jim boardman reported on the anfieldroad.com site that he had inside information to suggest the two players were in fact unhappy.

I think its conceivable Torres will probably leave in the summer unless there is a huge change of performance levels in every department of the club. Its just worrying when you hear Reina being reportedly unhappy too. He is Mr dependable and was the first to commit his future to the club in the summer.

I guess the fact that we are only 8 point off 4th after having such a disastrous start makes me feel if the right manager were brought that could galvanise the team then 4th would still be possible the fact that its so early in the year. Then maybe then players like Reina and Torres might stay. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2010, 03:20:03 PM
welcome jas and fowlersgod.

the mirror is a crap paper...........there is only one thing in it worth reading, and that is brian reade's column.

as for reina and torres - I have no problem losing torres........the endless sicknote is becoming a pain in the ass. 

but reina is a diamond.  He must be kept at all costs.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 28, 2010, 03:27:26 PM
I think Woy may continue in his current role until the summer unless we are still rooted near the bottom of the table at Christmas.  My belief is that NESV will use the season as a learning curve and try not to make any rash decision regarding the managers position so early into their tenure.  I'm pretty sure the last thing thay want to be seen as is owners trying to destabilise the club in anyway. 

My personal feeling is that a change of manager will occur next summer and that the new man will be given the funds to bring in new players then.  My reasoning is based on the recent suggestion that NESV would not be spending money on players during this January's transfer window.  Ok, it sounds too simple but stranger things have happened!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Jas_lfc on October 28, 2010, 03:45:28 PM
I think Woy may continue in his current role until the summer unless we are still rooted near the bottom of the table at Christmas.  My belief is that NESV will use the season as a learning curve and try not to make any rash decision regarding the managers position so early into their tenure.  I'm pretty sure the last thing thay want to be seen as is owners trying to destabilise the club in anyway. 

My personal feeling is that a change of manager will occur next summer and that the new man will be given the funds to bring in new players then.  My reasoning is based on the recent suggestion that NESV would not be spending money on players during this January's transfer window.  Ok, it sounds too simple but stranger things have happened!

Performances like this are unacceptable till christmas, infact they are unacceptable for the next few games. Look at what it will do to the Moral of the team. Heads will go down and most will want to leave the club. If the likes of Alonso and Mashcerano(both cosidered true to the reds cause) would want to leave after finishing 2nd in the league and playing fantastic footy. Why would the others not want to leave after playing shambles like we have? We dont want a riot here where it is hard to stop players from staying and shed load of investment is then needed to revive the club.

If this continues, he should be gone by the end of Nov. That gives the new manager a month to work with squad, find out what he needs, and get some reinforcements in January. Who says decent players are not available in Jan. IIRC, Skittle, Arbeloa, Maxi were brought in Jan. And did we not sign someone named Anelka in Jan? All these were bargain deals. A decent manager knows how to find his man.

This could provide us much needed stability by the end of the season and then hand him the transfer kitty he needs to improve the squad.

Note: Alonso and Mascherano both wanted to go after the season we finished second, Rafa blocked the transfer of Mascherano to Barcelona that season.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on October 28, 2010, 04:32:45 PM
If the likes of Alonso and Mashcerano(both cosidered true to the reds cause) would want to leave after finishing 2nd in the league and playing fantastic footy. Why would the others not want to leave after playing shambles like we have?

Hear what your saying Jas (welcome to the forum btw) but Alonso never wanted to leave.  He was a true red.  Unfortunately Rafa had other idea's (Barry).  Masher, well he turned out to be a bit of mercenary in the end.  But then who could blame him or any other player (Benni) for looking at another club under H&G.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Jas_lfc on October 28, 2010, 05:53:09 PM
Hear what your saying Jas (welcome to the forum btw) but Alonso never wanted to leave.  He was a true red.  Unfortunately Rafa had other idea's (Barry).  Masher, well he turned out to be a bit of mercenary in the end.  But then who could blame him or any other player (Benni) for looking at another club under H&G.

Cheers for the welcome mate..

Irrefutable, Rafa had a lot to do with Alonso leaving. But he brought him here and many more like him, so I will spare him that. Mascherano leaving had nothing to with the owners. He wanted to go to Barcelona, it sounded a dream move for him. Dont blame him because its a winner club. He will win loads with them.

Both served there time well here, and I feel we are lucky to have seen them play so regularly for so long.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 28, 2010, 05:58:20 PM
I think Woy may continue in his current role until the summer unless we are still rooted near the bottom of the table at Christmas.  My belief is that NESV will use the season as a learning curve and try not to make any rash decision regarding the managers position so early into their tenure.  I'm pretty sure the last thing thay want to be seen as is owners trying to destabilise the club in anyway. 

My personal feeling is that a change of manager will occur next summer and that the new man will be given the funds to bring in new players then.  My reasoning is based on the recent suggestion that NESV would not be spending money on players during this January's transfer window.  Ok, it sounds too simple but stranger things have happened!

My worry Gurdeep is that whilst they are 'learning' the team will continue to crumble. It's strange, now we're rid of the owners and the focus is thankfully back on the football, the feeling of being under a cloud still remains.

Welcome Jas_lfc and FowlersGod, good to see you guys on board.

Jas_lfc, do/did you post on TalkLFC?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Jas_lfc on October 28, 2010, 06:03:03 PM
I do post at Talklfc mate, and who are you from there? I could be guessing Ste?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 28, 2010, 06:46:08 PM
My worry Gurdeep is that whilst they are 'learning' the team will continue to crumble. It's strange, now we're rid of the owners and the focus is thankfully back on the football, the feeling of being under a cloud still remains.
Actually Tes, what we need are a team of Kyrgiagoses!! If half the team had the drive and determination he's shown in recent games we wouldn't be in the position we are now.

But, chin up! We're going into the Bolton game with a decent level of confidence and all the players know how vital a win is. Roy wouldn't dare to play a defensive game. There's too much riding on it and he'll be aware of that just as much as we are.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2010, 06:58:57 PM
But, chin up! We're going into the Bolton game with a decent level of confidence and all the players know how vital a win is.

wish I was as confident as you, ASI

two wins for woy, they say from his last 66 away games, cannot fill anyone with much hope.

and as for starting to play offensively - that is not Woy's style. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 28, 2010, 07:52:41 PM
wish I was as confident as you, ASI
Is there an alternative?

Quote
two wins for woy, they say from his last 66 away games, cannot fill anyone with much hope.
and as for starting to play offensively - that is not Woy's style. 
Then that will be his undoing dude. The owners, whilst not experts on football, will be watching with interest and after a decent performance last Sunday will be expecting more of the same.

He who dares Rodney Roy.  :D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 28, 2010, 08:54:05 PM
I do post at Talklfc mate, and who are you from there? I could be guessing Ste?

I haven't posted on there for many years, in fact haven't looked in there for an age.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2010, 09:04:11 PM
Then that will be his undoing dude. The owners, whilst not experts on football, will be watching with interest and after a decent performance last Sunday will be expecting more of the same.

I think the games against wigan and stoke in 3 or 4 games time, may well be Woy's undoing, ASI.

our next game v bolton away, will probably be a draw at best........and no surprises if chelsea hammer us at anfield.

I think the game is up for Roy.





Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 28, 2010, 09:34:47 PM
Is there an alternative?
Then that will be his undoing dude. The owners, whilst not experts on football, will be watching with interest and after a decent performance last Sunday will be expecting more of the same.

He who dares Rodney Roy.  :D

ASI, I can probably force hope, but not confidence.

It's really whether Roy can shed the skin he's worn all his career and develop a new funkier version.

 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2010, 10:17:22 PM
Woy is your radio norwich type.

We need a radio 1 happening type dude.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 28, 2010, 10:18:18 PM
I think the games against wigan and stoke in 3 or 4 games time, may well be Woy's undoing, ASI.

our next game v bolton away, will probably be a draw at best........and no surprises if chelsea hammer us at anfield.

I think the game is up for Roy.

Well not if we beat Bolton and Chelsea it won't dude. It's hard to say what would be a defining game or games. Opinion can change very quickly depending not just on results but perfomances. If it's clear that Roy is using tactics that the players are not happy with then things could go pear-shaped as soon as Sunday.

I've watched the debate about possible replacements and there isn't a clear winner. Would a foreign manager be able to get to grips with the Prem League straight away? How would he fare in a transfer market? I'm not saying Roy is good in this area but I do think it's important that a replacement is chosen carefully. And if we can't agree what chance the owners can?

As for Chelsea hammering us? Don't think it would happen. In all the time I've supported Liverpool I can never remember a hammering especially at home.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 28, 2010, 10:22:55 PM
ASI, I can probably force hope, but not confidence.

It's really whether Roy can shed the skin he's worn all his career and develop a new funkier version.

Bolton aren't the hoof team they used to be. They are playing better footie which will help us play better footie and after last weekend I am hopeful the team will retain their confidence. But I agree, it's a fine line between hope and confidence given Roy's away record.

I'd love to hear his conversations with Stevie and Jamie. If they can't convince him a win is essential no-one can and he'll be signing his own resignation letter. We have to stay within 10 pts of 4th and wait for better times. CL footie is still a possibility but only if the players believe they can go out and win especially away from home.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2010, 10:34:20 PM
Well not if we beat Bolton and Chelsea it won't dude. It's hard to say what would be a defining game or games. Opinion can change very quickly depending not just on results but perfomances. If it's clear that Roy is using tactics that the players are not happy with then things could go pear-shaped as soon as Sunday.

I've watched the debate about possible replacements and there isn't a clear winner. Would a foreign manager be able to get to grips with the Prem League straight away? How would he fare in a transfer market? I'm not saying Roy is good in this area but I do think it's important that a replacement is chosen carefully. And if we can't agree what chance the owners can?

As for Chelsea hammering us? Don't think it would happen. In all the time I've supported Liverpool I can never remember a hammering especially at home.

I recall arsenal pasting us 6-2 at anfield, nbot so long ago.

chelsea are balanced and on form.  Our midfield and defence is frail at best....and a joke at worst.  I fear the worst.  A 3 or 4 nil drubbing would I feel signal Roy's p45 (that evening/weekend).

as for replacements.....there is never total agreement.  I'd definitely go european again (despite what pri.cks like james lawton spews in the Mail).  That is where talent comes from.  That is where a manager's knowledge has to be (of what is emerging and available on the european mainland). 

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 29, 2010, 10:44:51 AM
To be honest I think its inconceivable for people to blame the failings of a team that contains players like Reina, Meireles, Gerrard, Cole, torres etc on Benitez. Agree wholeheartedly with the below article.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/liverpool-fc/2010/10/29/comment-former-liverpool-fc-boss-benitez-not-to-blame-for-roy-hodgson-s-mess-55578-27563021/

Former Liverpool FC boss Benitez not to blame for Roy Hodgson’s mess
Oct 29 2010 by Ben Thornley, Daily Post

NOT since William Shakespeare gave Richard III a hump has a figure endured as much revisionism at the hands of English writers as Rafa Benitez.

As Liverpool manager, Benitez once quipped that he was “blamed for everything, for global warming to high petrol prices”.

It is only since he left Anfield, however, that the real finger-pointing began.

Even Benitez’s most ardent supporter – which this observer certainly was not – would concede that the Inter Milan boss made a series of mistakes in his final years on Merseyside, that contributed to Liverpool missing out on the title in 2009 and the top four last season.

His greatest blunder, though, appears to have been failing to play the game of the English Press, who have assigned culpability for Roy Hodgson’s abysmal start at the Reds helm to Benitez.

Tellingly, the Spaniard endured harsher Fleet Street criticism when guiding Liverpool to the summit of the Premier League in 2008 than his successor did after leaving the club second from bottom following a humiliating 2-0 Merseyside derby defeat.

Apparently, it’s not the Londoner’s fault that Liverpool have made their poorest start to a top-flight campaign since they were relegated in the 1950s.

Forget the regressive tactics, the defeatist press conferences, spending close to £10m on Paul Konchesky and Christian Poulsen or playing his marquee signing Raul Merieles out of position.

No, if you believe everything you read in the national papers, Liverpool are sat in the bottom three because of Benitez’s record in the transfer market.

This despite the former Valencia coach leaving behind 13 players who featured for their countries during this summer’s World Cup and three signings in Pepe Reina, Fernando Torres and Javier Mascherano considered to be among the finest in their position in the game.

And as pointed out in this column last week, nine players who featured in the 4-1 victory over United at Old Trafford are still in Liverpool’s ranks.

Admittedly, Benitez was a deeply frustrating figure who made a handful of blunders in the transfer market.

Forcing the exit of Xabi Alonso, who was key to the 4-2-3-1 system favoured by Benitez, ranks among his worst – as does his choice for the Basque’s replacement, Alberto Aquilani.

But Aquilani – currently impressing at Juventus – was only a poor buy because he was unavailable until late in the season.

And it wasn’t Benitez who sent him back to Italy on loan for a season once he was match fit, while spending what little money was available on a player who occupies the same position.

When a player left Anfield under the Madrid-born coach it was often at a profit, something which is usually ignored when assessing his transfer record. Like the concept of net spend.

His critics use the high turnover of players during his tenure as a stick to beat him with, while arguing the irrelevance of transfer funds received.

To borrow a line from the excellent Liverpool FC writer Paul Tomkins, when you tell someone how much your house cost you don’t tell them the sum of every property you have ever bought.

And Benitez traded at a significant profit during his final 18 months in charge, as the club’s debts began to bite.

The 50-year-old should be remembered as a Liverpool legend after delivering the Champions League in 2005, but there are individuals seemingly intent on destroying his legacy.

At the root of this revisionism is the usual mix of xenophobia and patriotism, a resentment of foreign coaches taking the top Premier League jobs – regardless of their pedigree – and a desire to see English bosses get their chance. Again, regardless of their pedigree – see Hodgson.

There’s also a less noble motivation behind these journalists wanting British bosses in charge of the elite clubs – they tend to be more open to the Press.

In his entire six-year Anfield stay, Benitez granted just one exclusive interview with a national – The Times.

It’s not that the Spaniard treated the media poorly. Regardless of however intense the interrogation became, Benitez would almost always respond politely and with a smile, no matter how rude his inquisitor.

Something which can’t be said of the tetchy Hodgson.

Every question, no matter how simple, is met with “what do you mean by that, what are you trying to say?”.

Scandinavian and Italian journalists report similar experiences, expressing bemusement at his portrayal as an English gentleman on these shores.

Indeed, his derisory comments about the abilities of La Liga and Champions League-winning coach Frank Rijkaard, after the Dutchman was linked to the Liverpool job, were pitiful.

Hodgson would swap all of his trophies won in the backwaters of Europe for just one of the former Barcelona coach’s.

Liverpool fans would happily trade Hodgson for Rijkaard.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 29, 2010, 11:57:57 AM
great article, Juan.

the key section, for me, was:

"At the root of this revisionism is the usual mix of xenophobia and patriotism, a resentment of foreign coaches taking the top Premier League jobs – regardless of their pedigree – and a desire to see English bosses get their chance. Again, regardless of their pedigree – see Hodgson.

There’s also a less noble motivation behind these journalists wanting British bosses in charge of the elite clubs – they tend to be more open to the Press."
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 29, 2010, 12:00:26 PM
I have to say that I thought James Lawton's repeatedly vicious attacks on Rafa (and Liverpool) across that last season, were way beyond the pale. 

That guy deserves a punch on the nose.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: FowlersGod on October 29, 2010, 02:21:12 PM
Thanks for the welcome guys.

This weekend is huge for Hodgson, a win at Bolton might just take the pressure off him a little but I have a feeling deep down we will be lucky to get a point from the game on Sunday. Bolton are good at home and the performance of Blackburn last weekend help us in some ways to get the victory.

Roy's last stand, who knows?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 29, 2010, 05:15:23 PM
I recall a*senal pasting us 6-2 at anfield, nbot so long ago.
I'm not sure of the team we put out for that but as it was the League Cup it probably wasn't our first team. We also lost 1-4 at home to Chelsea back in October 2005 - 5 months after winning the CL. Both under Rafa. It happens to all teams occasionally. Look at Arsenal 0-3 down to West Brom the other week whereas we beat them 1-0. Football - bloody 'ell as someone once said.

Quote
chelsea are balanced and on form.  Our midfield and defence is frail at best....and a joke at worst.  I fear the worst.  A 3 or 4 nil drubbing would I feel signal Roy's p45 (that evening/weekend).
All setup for a shock home win then!  ;D

Quote
as for replacements.....there is never total agreement.  I'd definitely go european again (despite what pri.cks like james lawton spews in the Mail).  That is where talent comes from.  That is where a manager's knowledge has to be (of what is emerging and available on the european mainland). 
I haven't kept my finger on the pulse regarding available foreign managers. I do it sad that this country cannot produce quality managers any more.  :(
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 30, 2010, 12:43:04 AM
If it's clear that Roy is using tactics that the players are not happy with then things could go pear-shaped as soon as Sunday.

I think that is the absolute crux of the problem. I think it was also the same when we kicked off the '09/'10 season, after playing the way we did in the last third of the '08/'09 season. The players looked deflated and less than inspired by being back to the same old tactics again. Likewise this season. The way we played against Blackburn, especially with both central midfielders getting forward, as opposed  to playing as a deep lying defensive shield, whilst  offering nothing when we had possession, is definately the way forward. It's no coincidence that Meireles, Lucas and Maxi looked better players in that system and way of playing. Hodgson needs to stick to it. There may be a few teething troubles here and there but he needs to resist the temptation of going back to his overly cautious 'trying only to avoid getting beaten' approach. Houllier failed to resist the temptation, as did Benitez.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 30, 2010, 01:03:02 AM
all well and good.

but if you're gonna be attack-minded and throw the kitchen sink at teams, you got to have at least a decent defence.

we have neither a decent defence, nor midfield.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: FowlersGod on October 30, 2010, 09:51:00 AM
all well and good.

but if you're gonna be attack-minded and throw the kitchen sink at teams, you got to have at least a decent defence.

we have neither a decent defence, nor midfield.

We'd have a decent defence and midfield if it was setup properly by Hodgson.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 30, 2010, 11:45:13 AM
all well and good.

but if you're gonna be attack-minded and throw the kitchen sink at teams, you got to have at least a decent defence.

we have neither a decent defence, nor midfield.

The defence is pretty much the same that was always tight and had one of the lowest 'goals against' totals regularly under Benitez. Something's missing.

Dude, it's about being more positive and attack minded, like we were against Blackburn, where our central midfielders were often in their half, even around the edge of 'their' penalty area, as opposed to ours. Also pressing of the opponents needs to be done higher up the pitch.
Positive, as opposed to 'gung ho', Keegan-style.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 30, 2010, 01:25:15 PM
all well and good.

but if you're gonna be attack-minded and throw the kitchen sink at teams, you got to have at least a decent defence.

we have neither a decent defence, nor midfield.

Sorrry, can't agree with that. We have some good or very good players who are being given instructions to play defensively instead of being more attack-minded which I'm sure is natural for players like Cole, Gerrard and Meireles.

I agree that with Carragher and Koncheski on the defensive flanks we are vunerable to fast wingers but Skrtel and Soto are becoming a decent central defensive partnership. Soto especially is having a good season.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 30, 2010, 02:46:37 PM
sorry, I disagree.

the liverpool defence, in my experience, has never been weaker.

carra hasn't been up to it for 2 seasons or so.......Koncheski is not liverpool level..........the big greek lad is all heart and inspirational, but he is not liverpool class.

but we also have no protection in front of these lads.  midfield is very weak.

if we attack bolton, it could be a keeganesque scoreline, with us coming out on top if we are lucky.........if we attack chelsea at anfield, we will be slaughtered.  :(

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on October 30, 2010, 02:48:18 PM
Its playing as a unit that is our problem. Look at Inter last year. Mourinho had Eto tracking back and defending and he didnt complain once. Eto wouldnt have done that at Barca.Its about the manager getting players working for the benefit of the team and working as a TEAM.  To be honest i'd rather win 1-0 than lose 4-3.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 30, 2010, 05:19:53 PM
sorry, I disagree.
No need to apologise. I don't expect everyone to agree with me because it would become a very boring forum.  ;)

Quote
the liverpool defence, in my experience, has never been weaker.
I'm not suggesting that given some money I wouldn't replace the current players. But as long as you score more than the opposition conceding a goal isn't terminal. Pepe wouldn't like it of course but would you take a 2-1 win over a 0-0 draw?

Quote
carra hasn't been up to it for 2 seasons or so.......Koncheski is not liverpool level..........the big greek lad is all heart and inspirational, but he is not liverpool class.
We can't change any of those until Jan except try the likes of Kelly et al.

Quote
but we also have no protection in front of these lads.  midfield is very weak.
Lucas can do a job but isn't up to the level of Masch. But defensively I'd say he is better than Alonso was.

Quote
if we attack bolton, it could be a keeganesque scoreline, with us coming out on top if we are lucky.........if we attack chelsea at anfield, we will be slaughtered.  :(
Disagree on both points. Chelsea struggled to beat Blackburn today. Football is not an exact science. People have off days. We could but then we've had lots so far. Bolton are due one.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 30, 2010, 06:07:24 PM
ASI, I totally agree re the need to be offensive to win the premiership.

But we don't have the personnel (nor the organisation), at the the moment, to be so offensive.

Houllier was woefully negative (and would never have won the premiership).  But for me, Rafa was spot-on re the balance between offence and defence.  And that IMHO is key to being a top manager - getting the balance right.  Some argued that Rafa was overly negative at times....and perhaps they had a case.  I prefer to think though that he knew his limitations, personnel wise, and stepped back at times (from going for the opposition's throat).  But you don't hammer real madrid and man utd by four goals if you're a negative boss.

Roy, I just don't rate (tactical wise) at the top level. 

But as you say, all opinions......a boring place if we all agreed.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 30, 2010, 08:49:54 PM
Unless we beat Bolton tomorrow Henry might just well be flying in to give roy the bullet. Fingers crossed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1325214/Roy-Hodgson-desperate-sign-new-striker-Liverpool.html


Roy Hodgson desperate to sign a new striker for Liverpool

By Joe Bernstein Last updated at 8:04 PM on 30th October 2010

Liverpool owner John W Henry will fly in this week to discuss January transfer targets with Roy Hodgson, who has revealed the club are so short of strikers he cannot even hold proper practice matches.

Henry, whose £300million purchase of Liverpool earlier this month almost certainly saved the club from administration, will jet in from Boston for his first proper face-to-face talks with Hodgson about transfer policy and plans to stay in England to take in Sunday's clash against Chelsea, his first Premier League game at Anfield.

 Short of back-up: Fernando Torres need a reliable strike partner
Hodgson, under pressure with Liverpool travelling to Bolton today still in the bottom three despite a win against Blackburn, will be desperate for a good result at the Reebok to help his case with Henry.
The Liverpool manager will ask that a new striker to cover for Fernando Torres is made top priority having failed to sign one in the summer under previous owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.
Hodgson only has Torres and David Ngog in his first-team squad and he said: 'That's clearly not enough. A club like Liverpool shouldn't have to rely on non-specialists like Dirk Kuyt or Ryan Babel "doing a job" up front when they are primarily wide players.

'We have the same problem with the reserves. We don't have any strikers and a winger called Nathan Ecclestone has to play up front.

'In training, I can't have practice games where each team plays a 4-4-2 because I don't have the front players to do that.'
Hodgson accepts that the new owners are unlikely to splash out £20million on a striker in January, even if the right player was available, but hopes to land up to three acquisitions to bolster the squad.
'There is more chance of a striker coming in this window because we had no money last time. Everything was so convoluted with the ownership issue,' he added. 'The first thing people say when I walk down the street is "We need a front player". They can't all be wrong and we aren't that stupid either.'

Liverpool have been linked with Hungarian striker Adam Szala, of Mainz, and Roma front man Mirko Vucinic.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1325214/Roy-Hodgson-desperate-sign-new-striker-Liverpool.html#ixzz13sD8Jxvd
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 30, 2010, 09:36:55 PM
Unless we beat Bolton tomorrow Henry might just well be flying in to give roy the bullet. Fingers crossed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1325214/Roy-Hodgson-desperate-sign-new-striker-Liverpool.html


Roy Hodgson desperate to sign a new striker for Liverpool

By Joe Bernstein Last updated at 8:04 PM on 30th October 2010

Liverpool owner John W Henry will fly in this week to discuss January transfer targets with Roy Hodgson, who has revealed the club are so short of strikers he cannot even hold proper practice matches.

Henry, whose £300million purchase of Liverpool earlier this month almost certainly saved the club from administration, will jet in from Boston for his first proper face-to-face talks with Hodgson about transfer policy and plans to stay in England to take in Sunday's clash against Chelsea, his first Premier League game at Anfield.

 Short of back-up: Fernando Torres need a reliable strike partner
Hodgson, under pressure with Liverpool travelling to Bolton today still in the bottom three despite a win against Blackburn, will be desperate for a good result at the Reebok to help his case with Henry.
The Liverpool manager will ask that a new striker to cover for Fernando Torres is made top priority having failed to sign one in the summer under previous owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.
Hodgson only has Torres and David Ngog in his first-team squad and he said: 'That's clearly not enough. A club like Liverpool shouldn't have to rely on non-specialists like Dirk Kuyt or Ryan Babel "doing a job" up front when they are primarily wide players.

'We have the same problem with the reserves. We don't have any strikers and a winger called Nathan Ecclestone has to play up front.

'In training, I can't have practice games where each team plays a 4-4-2 because I don't have the front players to do that.'
Hodgson accepts that the new owners are unlikely to splash out £20million on a striker in January, even if the right player was available, but hopes to land up to three acquisitions to bolster the squad.
'There is more chance of a striker coming in this window because we had no money last time. Everything was so convoluted with the ownership issue,' he added. 'The first thing people say when I walk down the street is "We need a front player". They can't all be wrong and we aren't that stupid either.'

Liverpool have been linked with Hungarian striker Adam Szala, of Mainz, and Roma front man Mirko Vucinic.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1325214/Roy-Hodgson-desperate-sign-new-striker-Liverpool.html#ixzz13sD8Jxvd

"A club like Liverpool shouldn't have to rely on non-specialists like Dirk Kuyt or Ryan Babel "doing a job" up front when they are primarily wide players. "  :o  Excuse my ignorance but isn't Dirk Kuyt a striker "doing a job" as a wide player and Babel regards himself as a striker? I'll give him Babel , but Dirk?

"We don't have any strikers and a winger called Nathan Ecclestone has to play up front." - He sounds like he's talking about someone else's club, not the one he's manager of. He doesn't sound as though he's awfully familiar with Nathan Ecclestone.

And Pacheco? What about him, Roy? No, he's not 'a bit small for a centre half', Roy.

It must be really hard for Roy to eat when his foot appears to be permanently in his mouth.  ::)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 30, 2010, 10:30:46 PM
"A club like Liverpool shouldn't have to rely on non-specialists like Dirk Kuyt or Ryan Babel "doing a job" up front when they are primarily wide players. "  :o  Excuse my ignorance but isn't Dirk Kuyt a striker "doing a job" as a wide player and Babel regards himself as a striker? I'll give him Babel , but Dirk?

"We don't have any strikers and a winger called Nathan Ecclestone has to play up front." - He sounds like he's talking about someone else's club, not the one he's manager of. He doesn't sound as though he's awfully familiar with Nathan Ecclestone.

And Pacheco? What about him, Roy? No, he's not 'a bit small for a centre half', Roy.

It must be really hard for Roy to eat when his foot appears to be permanently in his mouth.  ::)

People accused Rafa of making excuses but Roy will be eventually be  going back and blaming  shankly at this rate. He is pulling every excuse out of the book. Rafas trainging and tactics have caused the likes of carra legs to go............

actually one thing that I notice Roy is trying to do, very cleverly might I add, hes heaping praise on Carra and Gerrard  because he knows the weight of influence they carry at the club. I just hope both players see through Roy although I wouldnt expect Crra to seeing as hes guaranteed his place
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 30, 2010, 10:42:17 PM
managers usually start making excuses, and having a go at others, after 3 or 4 seasons.

but Roy is at it after only a few weeks at anfield.

this is a very bad sign.

I wish he'd friggen dry up at times.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 30, 2010, 11:10:33 PM
It's like Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez all rolled into one.  Who's next to be blamed, Don Welsh, Phil Taylor (no, not 'Philthy Animal').
It's like he's talking up the problems so that anything positive that happens seems like an amazing feat against the most impossible odds.

Remind, did we gain promotion last season by scraping into the playoffs on goal difference on the last day of the season and fluked our way through the playoffs and the final with a combination of own goals, massive deflections and dodgy penalties? For some stupid reason I seem to think we finished seventh and second the season before. The old memory's obviously getting worse than I thought.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 30, 2010, 11:41:57 PM
yes, he's playing games - knock everything and everyone else, so that he can be the hero (when he takes us out of the bottom three).

he must take us for being stupid.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on October 31, 2010, 12:38:28 AM
yes, he's playing games - knock everything and everyone else, so that he can be the hero (when he takes us out of the bottom three).

he must take us for being stupid.

It's also unbelievable how all the British managers come out in his defence, just before we play them:


Roy will succeed with Reds, says Coyle

5:50pm Saturday 30th October 2010


OWEN Coyle has warned critics to lay-off Roy Hodgson, even though Wanderers will be looking to turn the screw on Liverpool on Sunday.

With the odds against Hodgson lasting the distance under new owners at Anfield, Whites boss Coyle knows any result his side achieve at the Reebok could have an adverse effect on a coach he rates as one of the best in the game.

Liverpool, battle weary from months of boardroom upheaval, are entrenched in the bottom three after their worst start to a season for more than 50 years.

But while Coyle and his side will be seeking to extend their own impressive start, potentially breaking into the top five with victory, he has urged the Reds not to judge Hodgson until he has had chance to mould the squad in his own way.

“It really is a transitional period over there, so what really baffles and bewilders me is that Roy comes in for so much criticism,” the manager said.

“This is a man who, for me, is an elite coach among the very best in world football.

“He showed the quality he has last year at Fulham and won manager of the year and then within two months, people are saying he’s no good.

“This is a top class manager and given the time, he’ll bring Liverpool back to the heights where they are challenging for trophies.


Hodgson inherited a large squad from Rafa Benitez in the summer but has performed his rebuilding operation with a backdrop of major change, with former owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jnr deposed only shortly before last weekend’s victory against Blackburn.

“It was always going to be difficult,” said Coyle. “Without going into what went on before, he came into a team on a downward spiral because of the way they finished last season.

“He had to get some freshness and that was always going to take time. You don’t come in and click your fingers and everything falls into place, particularly at a club that has always been known for challenging for top honours.

“People have to understand it’s a transitional period, especially with all the stuff going on off the field as well. Any manager craves time and I’m pretty sure that if he’s given it, they will reap the rewards.”

Fernando Torres got back on the goal trail with the winner last weekend, sparking suggestions that the worst of Liverpool’s form is now behind them.

And Coyle is well aware that the victory over Blackburn might have re-ignited tomorrow’s opponents.

“Football changes really quickly,” he said. “From all the doom and gloom that people were trying to perceive about the club – all of a sudden, you get that three points and you’re up and running again. Their sights are now on moving right up into that top half of the table.

“Of course, my focus is on keeping Bolton there. We’re at home and that has been a terrific effort collectively because the fans are really making sure it’s a good place to work in.

“We have to make sure we’re at our best on Sunday and I think, overall, Liverpool will know that they are in for a tough game.”


http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/wanderersnews/8484426.Roy_will_succeed_with_Reds__says_Coyle/ (http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/wanderersnews/8484426.Roy_will_succeed_with_Reds__says_Coyle/)

 :o

I've searched Google for this Roy Hodgson that Coyle's talking about and I can only find 'our' Roy Hodgson.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2010, 01:38:31 AM
they are all versed in sky-speak...........all that media traning they get............they spend hours spouting nothing of value.

oh for when football was a passionate sport, with personalities and folks who loved to speak their mind....ala brain clough.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on October 31, 2010, 12:23:14 PM
It's also unbelievable how all the British managers come out in his defence, just before we play them:


Roy will succeed with Reds, says Coyle

5:50pm Saturday 30th October 2010


OWEN Coyle has warned critics to lay-off Roy Hodgson, even though Wanderers will be looking to turn the screw on Liverpool on Sunday.

With the odds against Hodgson lasting the distance under new owners at Anfield, Whites boss Coyle knows any result his side achieve at the Reebok could have an adverse effect on a coach he rates as one of the best in the game.

Liverpool, battle weary from months of boardroom upheaval, are entrenched in the bottom three after their worst start to a season for more than 50 years.

But while Coyle and his side will be seeking to extend their own impressive start, potentially breaking into the top five with victory, he has urged the Reds not to judge Hodgson until he has had chance to mould the squad in his own way.

“It really is a transitional period over there, so what really baffles and bewilders me is that Roy comes in for so much criticism,” the manager said.

“This is a man who, for me, is an elite coach among the very best in world football.

“He showed the quality he has last year at Fulham and won manager of the year and then within two months, people are saying he’s no good.

“This is a top class manager and given the time, he’ll bring Liverpool back to the heights where they are challenging for trophies.


Hodgson inherited a large squad from Rafa Benitez in the summer but has performed his rebuilding operation with a backdrop of major change, with former owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jnr deposed only shortly before last weekend’s victory against Blackburn.

“It was always going to be difficult,” said Coyle. “Without going into what went on before, he came into a team on a downward spiral because of the way they finished last season.

“He had to get some freshness and that was always going to take time. You don’t come in and click your fingers and everything falls into place, particularly at a club that has always been known for challenging for top honours.

“People have to understand it’s a transitional period, especially with all the stuff going on off the field as well. Any manager craves time and I’m pretty sure that if he’s given it, they will reap the rewards.”

Fernando Torres got back on the goal trail with the winner last weekend, sparking suggestions that the worst of Liverpool’s form is now behind them.

And Coyle is well aware that the victory over Blackburn might have re-ignited tomorrow’s opponents.

“Football changes really quickly,” he said. “From all the doom and gloom that people were trying to perceive about the club – all of a sudden, you get that three points and you’re up and running again. Their sights are now on moving right up into that top half of the table.

“Of course, my focus is on keeping Bolton there. We’re at home and that has been a terrific effort collectively because the fans are really making sure it’s a good place to work in.

“We have to make sure we’re at our best on Sunday and I think, overall, Liverpool will know that they are in for a tough game.”


http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/wanderersnews/8484426.Roy_will_succeed_with_Reds__says_Coyle/ (http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/wanderersnews/8484426.Roy_will_succeed_with_Reds__says_Coyle/)

 :o

I've searched Google for this Roy Hodgson that Coyle's talking about and I can only find 'our' Roy Hodgson.

I just dont understand the way British managers stick up for other British managers. Nearly every manager that has come out and slated Benitez that is Fergie, Sam, Moyes, Bruce, Redknapp are the same guys who also have praised Roy. And they are all British. No chance of them saying a single word against each other. How can you slate one manager and blame him for Liverpools demise just because hes finished 7th yet priase another manager and as Coyle suggests that hes world class even though hes won nothing and he currently got the Liverpool team lying in 18th. I'd love to see Rafa back, new owners, no excuses and no handicap in terms  of cash.

As Ive suggested before Roys a conman, hes conned his way into the Liverpool job.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on October 31, 2010, 01:39:44 PM
like you Juan, I'd love to see Rafa back too (along with Packo).

as for big sam and co - they are all little englanders. 

I wish the media was strong enough to challenge them on their views.   I find their views often bordering on being racist.

Then again, look at much of the media - it too, is full of little englanders.





Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: wittsy on October 31, 2010, 07:46:55 PM
We need 5 or 6 players as we're sort of players he says..

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6478627,00.html

"In January we should be really looking to solve one or two situations. We are desperately short of players. Front players.

is this the same man who axed players when he got here saying we were over staffed ???

Jas
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 31, 2010, 08:46:22 PM
is this the same man who axed players when he got here saying we were over staffed ???

Jas
Overstaffed with poor quality players I expect. What's the point of paying wages to someone who will never see first team action?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: wittsy on October 31, 2010, 09:12:54 PM
I could agree with that but it was stated somewhere else (can't find it now) that he was struggling to hold a good training session because of it. Also whats the point of letting players go in areas your week in ( a certain young left back springs to mind  ??? )

It just seems to me like bad planning to me.

Jas
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on October 31, 2010, 10:23:51 PM
I could agree with that but it was stated somewhere else (can't find it now) that he was struggling to hold a good training session because of it. Also whats the point of letting players go in areas your week in ( a certain young left back springs to mind  ??? )

It just seems to me like bad planning to me.

Jas

Yes, I saw the same story and like you can't remember where. Regarding Insua I'm not sure of the reasons he left. But given it was when H&G were in control I suspect there was more to it than meets the eye. I think he was told to trim the wages bill and he was hardly likely to refuse his new employer.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 01, 2010, 12:06:41 PM
Heres some support for Roy. I'm not sure Tim can say anything differently other than what he said, I dont think when asked about Roy hes going to publicly condemn him although I could be wrong. If what Flowers says is genuine then I dont see the evidence to prove Tims point, well I suppose there is none.

http://www.sport.co.uk/news/Football/46119/Flowers_hails_Hodgson_and_Liverpool_public.aspx

Former Blackburn Rovers goalkeeper Tim Flowers strongly believes that Roy Hodgson will turn Liverpool around given time in the Anfield hotseat.

The Reds endured a disastrous start to the season but have risen out of the bottom three with two successive wins, granting Hodgson a stay of execution from the Kop in the process.

Speaking as a guest on Sky Sports show Goals on Sunday, Flowers – who played under Hodgson at Blackburn – stated his firm belief that Hodgson’s thoroughness will get the Reds back on track.

He said: “It’s going to take time but there’s no better public than the Liverpool public.

“They understand football, they’re steeped in the tradition of football and they’ll understand that Roy’s going to need time to turn it round.

“Roy’s a tremendous coach – he will drill them and they’ll know exactly what they have to do.

“You can’t do that overnight but he will turn Liverpool around.”
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 01, 2010, 02:03:31 PM
yes, he's playing games - knock everything and everyone else, so that he can be the hero (when he takes us out of the bottom three).

he must take us for being stupid.

Totally with you, The Dude.  Now 7 away wins in his 67  premier league career...

just how DID he get this job anyway? Surely Kenny didn't suggest him as the best candidate?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 01, 2010, 03:45:18 PM
I'll not say anymore about Roy, I feel we have said it all on this thread and I don't want to sound like I have a personal grudge - I don't, but I can see no style or plan or development in his approach to the way the team functions.  This was written by Balkan Reds in the post tonight, and it sums it up for me:


 "I hope Henry has plans that please core Lfc supporters, because hodgson seems to believe in his own BS!

he WANTED to be "judged" after 10 league games, - the judgement is "guilty" its sad that some are conned by the media into celebrating our jump to 12th place...and that the "new Yanks" are not experienced in managing footy to see through his BS! (or the pathetic english media lobby behind him)

as a life long RED its hard to take , since the 60's , when weaned on Shanks mentality and supporting each REDS team ..encouraging any player that wears the LiverBird on their chest ..and whoever managed that team, until now, I cant enjoy it..my heart wanted a win, and as always although I want my team to play beautiful footy i'd take a scambled win..a steal like sunday

...but I cant imagine iin my head being truly "happy" whilst that man is sitting in the managers seat..

trying to avoid bias is difficult , but my feeling is that hodgson has proven that there is not one thing about him thats good for LFC (that is, the LFC i want to support) ..the "10 games" gone by, and I feel that the "success " of recent wins are more down to the team than to "tactics" ...and I dont see a strategy ..

i cant bring myself ever to want to lose , but rh is not our man, he was appointed by the "corrupt regime" ..and like that nightmare, i want it to be over and him gone, i'd rather have NO coach than someone who disgusts me as he does, and makes me not want to even look or listen to his interviews or post-match "opinions"

..oh...MY man of the match...the 12th;

....THE TRAVELLING KOP, made it sound like our home game, all the best to all of you who were part of that , you deserve much much more!"
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 01, 2010, 04:46:13 PM
I'll not say anymore about Roy, I feel we have said it all on this thread and I don't want to sound like I have a personal grudge - I don't, but I can see no style or plan or development in his approach to the way the team functions.  This was written by Balkan Reds in the post tonight, and it sums it up for me:


 "I hope Henry has plans that please core Lfc supporters, because hodgson seems to believe in his own BS!

he WANTED to be "judged" after 10 league games, - the judgement is "guilty" its sad that some are conned by the media into celebrating our jump to 12th place...and that the "new Yanks" are not experienced in managing footy to see through his BS! (or the pathetic english media lobby behind him)

as a life long RED its hard to take , since the 60's , when weaned on Shanks mentality and supporting each REDS team ..encouraging any player that wears the LiverBird on their chest ..and whoever managed that team, until now, I cant enjoy it..my heart wanted a win, and as always although I want my team to play beautiful footy i'd take a scambled win..a steal like sunday

...but I cant imagine iin my head being truly "happy" whilst that man is sitting in the managers seat..

trying to avoid bias is difficult , but my feeling is that hodgson has proven that there is not one thing about him thats good for LFC (that is, the LFC i want to support) ..the "10 games" gone by, and I feel that the "success " of recent wins are more down to the team than to "tactics" ...and I dont see a strategy ..

i cant bring myself ever to want to lose , but rh is not our man, he was appointed by the "corrupt regime" ..and like that nightmare, i want it to be over and him gone, i'd rather have NO coach than someone who disgusts me as he does, and makes me not want to even look or listen to his interviews or post-match "opinions"

..oh...MY man of the match...the 12th;

....THE TRAVELLING KOP, made it sound like our home game, all the best to all of you who were part of that , you deserve much much more!"

A very good summary of how a lot of Liverpool fans feel right now.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 01, 2010, 05:38:57 PM

a) I wish the media was strong enough to challenge them on their views.   I find their views often bordering on being racist.

b) Then again, look at much of the media - it too, is full of little englanders.

b) means a) happens. Nail on head, as always, Dude.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 01, 2010, 05:45:48 PM

he WANTED to be "judged" after 10 league games, - the judgement is "guilty" its sad that some are conned by the media into celebrating our jump to 12th place...and that the "new Yanks" are not experienced in managing footy to see through his BS! (or the pathetic english media lobby behind him)



So after 10 games we're 5 places lower than we finished last season. A season that has been described in many derogatory terms by media, managers and ex-pro pudits alike. A position we've only just moved into after spending a long time in the bottom three. A position we never managed to plumb the depths of in the 'Annus horribilis' of last season.

Hardly a ringing endorsement.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 01, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Then again, look at much of the media - it too, is full of little englanders.
I'm curious dude. Which newspapers do you find guilty of this? Would you also include Henry Winter and Rory Smith of the Telegraph?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 01, 2010, 05:54:44 PM
I'm curious dude. Which newspapers do you find guilty of this? Would you also include Henry Winter and Rory Smith of the Telegraph?

Henry Winter can be up there with the worst of them at times. Paul McCarthy and Martin Samuel are amongst the worse and James Lawton can push them close. Entry to the witches coven on 'Hold the back page' was pretty much always mandatory.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 01, 2010, 06:53:02 PM
Henry Winter can be up there with the worst of them at times. Paul McCarthy and Martin Samuel are amongst the worse and James Lawton can push them close. Entry to the witches coven on 'Hold the back page' was pretty much always mandatory.
As a regular Telegraph reader I've never thought of Winter as a 'little Englander'. Is it not allowed to criticise foreign managers? He berated Benitez in the second half of last season for his selections and politics. For the most part I agreed with him so I suppose I'm a little Englander as well.

I'm not familiar with McCarthy and Samuel. Tabloids or broadsheets?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 01, 2010, 07:28:09 PM
As a regular Telegraph reader I've never thought of Winter as a 'little Englander'. Is it not allowed to criticise foreign managers? He berated Benitez in the second half of last season for his selections and politics. For the most part I agreed with him so I suppose I'm a little Englander as well.

I'm not familiar with McCarthy and Samuel. Tabloids or broadsheets?

Criticism is criticism and it's fine if warranted but there's a readiness to criticise foreign managers, especially those who don't manage London clubs, that simply isn't there for their British counterparts. We all criticised Benitez, his tactics, selections, substitutions, over caution and transfers and it was warranted and had a basis for it.
ASI, the difference is none of us, and that definately includes you, do it with the apparent relish the hacks do. Meanwhile, their praise is more begrudging.

Tabloids or broadsheets? I don't tend to see much of a difference if you take into account there is a style difference, obviously, it's the underlying message and the basis and regularity that still comes through.

It's even worse with all things England.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: FowlersGod on November 01, 2010, 07:33:26 PM
Rafa at the Spurs/Inter pre match press conference:

"Hodgson talking about things he doesn't understand, he needs to stop talking about flops and concentrate on his job" "Some people can't see a priest in a mountain of sugar"

Legendary!

Continued...

'I brought dalglish back to do a role, christian purslow gave him another job.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 01, 2010, 07:36:47 PM
Rafa at the Spurs/Inter pre match press conference:

"Hodgson talking about things he doesn't understand, he needs to stop talking about flops and concentrate on his job" "Some people can't see a priest in a mountain of sugar"

Legendary!

Milk and now sugar. I think Rafa's missing a good old English cuppa.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 01, 2010, 07:41:00 PM
Criticism is criticism and it's fine if warranted but there's a readiness to criticise foreign managers, especially those who don't manage London clubs, that simply isn't there for their British counterparts. We all criticised Benitez, his tactics, selections, substitutions, over caution and transfers and it was warranted and had a basis for it.
ASI, the difference is none of us, and that definately includes you, do it with the apparent relish the hacks do. Meanwhile, their praise is more begrudging.
Thanks for the clarification Tes. I'm relieved I'm not thought of in that way but I do find the term "little Englander" rather offensive not regarding football but to those of us who would rather govern our own country than the EU do it for us whilst charging us obscene amounts of money for the privilege. Those who worship Brussels have referred to me using that term and I feel like knocking their blocks off (if I was capable which I'm not).

I'll have to read the WBA and Villa reports more closely and see if I can pick up on this.

Quote
Tabloids or broadsheets? I don't tend to see much of a difference if you take into account there is a style difference, obviously, it's the underlying message and the basis and regularity that still comes through.

It's even worse with all things England.
Is it really that blatant or are you reading between the lines?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on November 01, 2010, 07:59:28 PM
Guys, I think we ought to show Hodgson a bit more respect!

Granted he's not my first-choice for the job (in a million years!) and thought he was close to deserving the sack 2 or 3 games ago!

To give him his dues though, he has withstood enormous pressure and got some points on the board. Fair play! Even his press conferences are improving (he just needs to spectacularly fall out with Ferguson!). Maybe, we're approaching base camp, before ascending the table? Anyway,  the point is, with the Liverpool gig there's no place to hide, so he'll be found out soon enough if the recent wins were just fortunate (Blackburn missing their centre halves etc.), but in the meantime he's getting a bit of my grudging support!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 01, 2010, 08:45:50 PM
Thanks for the clarification Tes. I'm relieved I'm not thought of in that way but I do find the term "little Englander" rather offensive not regarding football but to those of us who would rather govern our own country than the EU do it for us whilst charging us obscene amounts of money for the privilege. Those who worship Brussels have referred to me using that term and I feel like knocking their blocks off (if I was capable which I'm not).

I'm 4 square behind you on that ASI. I fail to see where the benefit of it all is. Nothing should impinge on a country's sovereignty.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 01, 2010, 10:09:26 PM
I'm 4 square behind you on that ASI. I fail to see where the benefit of it all is. Nothing should impinge on a country's sovereignty.
Thanks Tes. Democracy appears dead in the UK and the EU. We don't even get a referendum on whether we should stay in the communistic-style EU. I don't use that word lightly. When Ireland votes no on the Lisbon Treaty it is told that is the wrong answer and told to vote again. 15 months later it gives the 'correct' answer under pain of economic meltdown. There are only two letters difference between communism and community. Speaks volumes doesn't it?  >:( :(

And tonight it's announced we're cooperating with the French on military matters. The Duke of Wellington would be outraged.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 01, 2010, 10:32:56 PM
Thanks Tes. Democracy appears dead in the UK and the EU. We don't even get a referendum on whether we should stay in the communistic-style EU. I don't use that word lightly. When Ireland votes no on the Lisbon Treaty it is told that is the wrong answer and told to vote again. 15 months later it gives the 'correct' answer under pain of economic meltdown. There are only two letters difference between communism and community. Speaks volumes doesn't it?  >:( :(

And tonight it's announced we're cooperating with the French on military matters. The Duke of Wellington would be outraged.

I blame George Orwell's Animal Farm. Seriously though, a trading community, standing together in unity (where feasible) to provide strength against the likes of the Americans and now China in trade and trade derived economics as fine, but anything else is essentially unworkable.

As for relying on the French for co-operation in anything. To be relied upon you need to be reliable. To co-operate you need to have a degree of flexibility. I can't think of any French government that I would ever credit with those qualities.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 01, 2010, 10:39:01 PM
How true Tes. If you're under 53 you've never had a chance to vote on 'Europe'. I voted for a Common Market in '75 because that's all it was then. All politicians promise the earth before they're elected and deliver diddly-squat when they get into power.

How long before the French navy or air force goes on strike? Quite frankly, I'd rather be in bed with the Germans!

Anyway, back to footie matters. I think Roy needs to button it regarding Kenny and expensive flops and just concentrate on getting results. We've had enough washing of our linen in public. I don't think Mr Henry will be impressed!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 01, 2010, 11:10:18 PM
Quite frankly, I'd rather be in bed with the Germans!

I thought I was the only one who thought like that. Welcome the Deutsche Bahn.


Quote
Anyway, back to footie matters. I think Roy needs to button it regarding Kenny and expensive flops and just concentrate on getting results. We've had enough washing of our linen in public. I don't think Mr Henry will be impressed!

I thought one of the attractions of Roy was that he wasn't political, was a gentleman, kept his council on all things and only talked about the game in terms of the last 90 minutes or the next 90 minutes.
Everything seems to distract him from the job at hand, a job he's trying to overly justify as being a huge rebuilding job. We finished seventh, not seventeenth. Yes we lost Masch but we're not ten places weaker for that. If the players are utilised to their strengths, we should, and even more so considering the unconvincing starts overall that Spurs and Man City have made, be in the thick of the challenge for a CL spot.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 01, 2010, 11:13:55 PM
like you Juan, I'd love to see Rafa back too (along with Packo).

There'd be a number of conditions I'd want meeting before I'd agree with you Juan and Dude.

Here's an interesting piece re Rafa from the BBC:

Rafael Benitez reborn with Inter Milan in Serie A

By Sam Sheringham  Monday, 1 November 2010


At the start of the season, Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson was asked about the implications of Rafael Benitez replacing the Real Madrid-bound Jose Mourinho at Inter Milan.

"They favour Madrid, no doubt about that," was the characteristically blunt response from Ferguson.

While the lingering animosity between Ferguson and his former Liverpool sparring partner Benitez made his assessment predictable, the Scot's view reflected the general consensus that Madrid were getting the better deal and that all-conquering Inter would be weakened under the stewardship of a coach whose reputation nose-dived during a dismal final season at Anfield.

Three months into Benitez's tenure at the Italian and European champions and opinions are starting to change. Slowly but surely, the Spaniard is winning over the hearts and minds of fans, pundits and the all-important Italian press, who fell out so dramatically with Mourinho.

A solid if unspectacular start to the Serie A season - Inter are second, four points behind surprise leaders Lazio - has been overshadowed by a confident opening to the defence of their Champions League title, which resumes against Tottenham at White Hart Lane on Tuesday night.

A 2-2 draw at FC Twente was followed by a 4-0 thrashing of Werder Bremen and a first-half demolition of Spurs at the San Siro, during which Inter played with a flair and swagger rarely seen under Mourinho.

Although Gareth Bale's stunning hat-trick for the north Londoners narrowed the scoreline to 4-3, it did little to alter the impression that the holders would take some beating in this season's competition.

"In some ways their football is even better than last season," said John Foot, author of Calcio: The History of Italian Football. "It's less cagey, less Catenaccio-esque than Mourinho would play.

"The first half hour against Tottenham was pretty expansive football and the team can almost play with its eyes closed now. It's already clear that they are going to be in contention for all these trophies right to the end of the season."

Italian football analyst Tor-Kristian Karlsen says Benitez's Inter are less liable to sit back and soak up pressure than they were under Mourinho during the 2009-10 campaign.

"The team keep the ball more under Benitez and the defensive line is usually pushed higher up the pitch," added Karlsen, a well-travelled scout and regular columnist for Calcio Italia magazine.

"Mourinho was more focused on defence and relied more on counter-attacks and the magic of individual players than the collective, rehearsed moves favoured by the Spaniard."

By any measure, Benitez had a hard act to follow. Mourinho's achievement of winning an unprecedented Treble of Italian league, cup and Champions League ensured any successor was almost certainly doomed to a degree of failure.

Whereas Serie A rivals AC Milan and Juventus spent heavily to enhance their squads for the 2010-11 season, Inter chose not to add to their resources, instead offloading the volatile but talented striker Mario Balotelli to Manchester City.

Benitez has kept faith with the 4-2-3-1 formation preferred by his Portuguese predecessor, but the subtle adjustments he has made to the side are reaping rewards.

The Spaniard's main alteration has been to end Samuel Eto'o's period of exile on the right wing and restore him to his favoured role as a central striker. The former Barcelona frontman has responded with a blistering start to the season, scoring 13 goals in 12 games.

Benitez has also given youth a chance, with 18-year-old Brazilian Coutinho and 22-year-old Jonathan Biabiany of France both returning from loan spells to force their way into the side. The duo were outstanding in the victory over Spurs, adding flair and dynamism to Inter's attacking play.

"I think Rafa is giving more players a chance," Foot commented. "All Mourinho teams have a backbone of the older guard. It's nice to see Rafa experimenting a little bit more. There's a lot of pressure on Wesley Sneijder to create everything but they need someone else. Coutinho looks to have that spark about him."

Mourinho's two-year tenure at Inter was characterised by extraordinary success on the field but plenty of ill-feeling off it. The former Chelsea and Porto boss had countless fallouts with journalists and other managers, his polemical behaviour prompting Catania director of football Pietro Lo Monaco to claim he "deserves a smack in the mouth".

In March, Mourinho declared he was unhappy in Italian football "because I don't like it and it doesn't like me." He expressed a yearning for a return to the Premier League, where his charisma and arrogance drew nostalgic comparisons with legendary Nottingham Forest manager Brian Clough.

In contrast, Benitez's reserved character and guarded discourse with the press seemed to irk fans and journalists in England, but it makes him a much better fit for the old-fashioned ways of Italian football, according to Karlsen.

"Unsurprisingly his entry has been a lot less controversial than Mourinho's. Whereas the Portuguese set his own agenda from day one, Benitez has been somewhat more diplomatic, on the whole showing respect to fellow coaches and the football environment. This is important to Italians who value their own school of thinking and traditions," Karlsen reflected.

"I don't think Benitez got the credit he deserved in England. Partly because he didn't offer the sound bites and easy conclusions that make you a tabloid favourite, but also because his thinking and ideas on football may have been too prudent and unsexy to win over the ever so demanding supporters.

"It's interesting to see how even the Liverpool supporters are spilt when it comes to Rafa. It's either love or hate, genius or idiot. I can't remember a manager or even a player stirring up the same mixed emotions."

One area in which Benitez divides opinion is his dealings in the transfer market. Pundits such as former Reds defender Alan Hansen have lambasted the Spaniard over big-money flops like Robbie Keane, Alberto Aquilani and Andrea Dossena, while his successor in the Anfield hot-seat Roy Hodgson last week bemoaned the number of "expensive failures" at the club.

Others such as respected writer and blogger Paul Tomkins has argued that Benitez has been unfairly maligned and prefer to highlight success stories like Pepe Reina, Fernando Torres and Javier Mascherano.

Wherever the truth lies, Benitez is unlikely to play such a central role in buying players at Inter, where sporting director Marco Branca and owner Massimo Moratti have the final say in new signings.

According to Paco Lloret, Benitez's biographer and close friend, this system will suit the Spaniard, as it more closely resembles that which was in place during his time at Valencia, where he won two Spanish league titles and a Uefa Cup.

"Benitez is a much better trainer than a finder of players," Lloret stated. "He knows how to design systems and work with a team. Others might have a better eye for a player, but they wouldn't know how to train them like Rafa Benitez does.

"Benitez likes working behind closed doors. Everything which surrounds a club, like the media, Benitez knows it's important but he doesn't see it as a priority."

In returning to White Hart Lane on Tuesday night, Benitez is revisiting the ground where his Liverpool tenure began to unravel in August 2009.

Having taken Manchester United right to the wire in the 2008-09 season, Liverpool went into the following campaign with high hopes of ending their 20-year wait for the title, only to suffer a morale-shattering 2-1 defeat to Spurs on the opening day.

Early exits from the Champions League and both domestic cups followed and a seventh-place Premier League finish in May brought a sorry end to a regime that had begun with an stunning European Cup triumph over AC Milan in 2005.

And while many fans directed their ire at detested former American co-owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett, there is little doubt that Benitez departed Anfield with his status considerably diminished.
"Right now Rafa faces a challenge to restore his reputation because his departure from Liverpool wasn't good," Lloret continued. "He's made a good start but there's a long way to go."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9140414.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9140414.stm)



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 01, 2010, 11:57:29 PM
Guys, I think we ought to show Hodgson a bit more respect!

Granted he's not my first-choice for the job (in a million years!) and thought he was close to deserving the sack 2 or 3 games ago!

To give him his dues though, he has withstood enormous pressure and got some points on the board. Fair play! Even his press conferences are improving (he just needs to spectacularly fall out with Ferguson!). Maybe, we're approaching base camp, before ascending the table? Anyway,  the point is, with the Liverpool gig there's no place to hide, so he'll be found out soon enough if the recent wins were just fortunate (Blackburn missing their centre halves etc.), but in the meantime he's getting a bit of my grudging support!

Thats fair enough Ed and there are plenty of fans out there that feel he deserves support.

For me it would be hypocritical to start supporting him now on the back of two wins. Nothing has changed, I still think hes grossly out of his depth. His press conferences and constant excuse making is actually getting worse in my opinion. The fact that he has had a pop at Benitez's "flops" again for me is hugely embarrassing when you consider Roy seems to have wasted money on the likes of Poulsen who he previously worked with and is no way Liverpool quality. The jurys also out on Konchesky.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 02, 2010, 12:09:19 AM

I thought one of the attractions of Roy was that he wasn't political, was a gentleman, kept his council on all things and only talked about the game in terms of the last 90 minutes or the next 90 minutes.
Everything seems to distract him from the job at hand, a job he's trying to overly justify as being a huge rebuilding job. We finished seventh, not seventeenth. Yes we lost Masch but we're not ten places weaker for that. If the players are utilised to their strengths, we should, and even more so considering the unconvincing starts overall that Spurs and Man City have made, be in the thick of the challenge for a CL spot.

Tes I think his well spoken manner is deceiving because initially I thought his press conferences were a breath of fresh air. Now for me they are just embarrassing. His latest pop at rafa's signings should see Sammy Lee take over press duties. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Roy blames his tools, the previous tradesman's tools , the previous tradesman, the electrician, the plumber, the plumbers wife, the owner of the hardware store and Woodies DIY.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 02, 2010, 10:04:40 AM
Guys, I think we ought to show Hodgson a bit more respect!

Granted he's not my first-choice for the job (in a million years!) and thought he was close to deserving the sack 2 or 3 games ago!

To give him his dues though, he has withstood enormous pressure and got some points on the board. Fair play! Even his press conferences are improving (he just needs to spectacularly fall out with Ferguson!). Maybe, we're approaching base camp, before ascending the table? Anyway,  the point is, with the Liverpool gig there's no place to hide, so he'll be found out soon enough if the recent wins were just fortunate (Blackburn missing their centre halves etc.), but in the meantime he's getting a bit of my grudging support!

Ed, that's all very fair and under most circumstances I would agree with you. It just irks me that 'respect' is the one thing lacking from Hodgson himself - respect for a manager whose brilliance made the club seriously over-acheive for five years; respect for the history, traditions and dignity of the club; respect for the intelligence and aspirations of the fans.  The greatest respect he has shown so far is in his timidity in dealing with Ferguson. He is the manager of one of the world's great sporting institutions and he needs to aspire to this rather than expect us to forget our heritage and meet him half-way to Fulham.  The man, who never tires of asking for respect for his brilliant career which has yielded precisely no major trophies in 35 years, has had us in the relegation zone, has had the team playing probably the worst football seen at Anfield since Souness' league cup teams, and in press conference after press conference embarrasses himself and his club.  How did he even merit being a managerial target in the first place? It is unfortunate but I don't think Henry has  sufficiently knowledgeable advisors to help him see what every Koppite could tell him flat: Hodgson is is symptom of G&H's corrupt regime and he, and his backers in the squad, need to be somewhere else already!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 02, 2010, 11:42:39 AM
sorry, I am a bit behind here.  So much work on yesterday.  And it is 6.31am here, and am about to start working in 20 mins.

Good to see clem and others posting.

the thing with Roy is, that at least we were appointing someone who was a gentleman, who didn't wash one;s laundry in public.  He would get us back to the old Liverpool way, right?

wrong.........as well as being tactically out of his depth, Roy has been anything but a gentleman in the media.  He has blamed everything and everyone since his appointment.   

We have the worst of both worlds.  A new boss that is neither up to it tactically, nor up to it in the media.

OK, re ASI - and the little englander thing.  I am in total agreement re the EU monster and the need to be out of it.  The little englander thing is nothing to do with that.   It's about tiny minds, like big sam's, that think english bosses (and players) should be appointed to premiership jobs.   WTF  It's 2010.  Clubs will appoint the best man for the job.  And that's the way it should be. 

I see it all the time in the media. I am reluctant to give specific examples, in public, lest someone ends up getting sued!   There is one specific columnist that I have grown to detest.

anyways, if I get a chance across the day, I will look in.

all my best....tis 6.42am.....bfn.



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 02, 2010, 02:22:40 PM
Criticism is criticism and it's fine if warranted but there's a readiness to criticise foreign managers, especially those who don't manage London clubs, that simply isn't there for their British counterparts. We all criticised Benitez, his tactics, selections, substitutions, over caution and transfers and it was warranted and had a basis for it.
ASI, the difference is none of us, and that definately includes you, do it with the apparent relish the hacks do. Meanwhile, their praise is more begrudging.

Tabloids or broadsheets? I don't tend to see much of a difference if you take into account there is a style difference, obviously, it's the underlying message and the basis and regularity that still comes through.

It's even worse with all things England.

totally agree, Tes.

now on the positive side, despite murdoch hijacking our media some 20 plus years ago, we still have the best media in the world.  Ond doesn't fully appreciate that until one travels.

I was always a massive newspaper reader.  I always bought at least 2 each day - express and mail, for the football coverage.  Often bought more.  And at Sundays, I have been known to buy 4 or 5 papers (say, the sunday times, mail on sunday, sunday express, independent....even the guardian occasionally.  Been doing that all my adult life. 

Being abroad in recent years, I am a massive online newspaper reader of these papers above.

Google News has always been my source of searching for the latest news, be it liverpool FC frelated or otherwise. 

But yes, there is a hardcore of writers/columnists......and football people, who are little englanders.

They would not recognise that in themselves, but it is pretty evident.

At the local level, you see many liverpool fans who want to return the club to being scouse.  Since when were Liverpool made up of mainly scouse players and personnel.  When we bossed the football world, we had lads  from all over - england, scotland, wales, rep of ireland, denmark, israel, etc.

Shankly was obviously Scottish, Bob Paisley from the north east (sunderland), Dalglish and Souness were Scottish, etc etc.

And yet we have this hardcore who have their history all mixed up.

It is really difficult to listen to know-it-all's who know-nothing. 

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on November 02, 2010, 02:24:46 PM
From all accounts Roy was brought in to steady the ship by the previous administration....

That admininstration has gone and now is the time to go beyond 'steadying the ship'...

Roy has taken us into the relegation zone...for months...

has slagged off the man who made us number one in europe...

and rafa's right that roy couldn't see a priest on a mountain of sugar....

the reason why we're in this predicament is because of Roy...who cares if we beat blackburn and bolton? that's par for the course...

the next two games will prove a time for a change...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 02, 2010, 03:24:41 PM
The echo carried out a poll today to see whose side Liverpool fans were on in the spat between Roy and Rafa.

1461 voted.

1286 (88%) agreed with Rafa's comments on Roy.

175 didnt agree with Rafa. Fairly resounding victory for Rafa.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/11/02/liverpool-fc-fans-give-their-reaction-to-rafael-benitez-s-comments-poll-results-100252-27585770/

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 02, 2010, 05:02:42 PM
I thought I was the only one who thought like that. Welcome the Deutsche Bahn.
Think of it as the least worse option. I'd much rather us be independent. All this partnership with aliens is a dangerous route to a pan-European force ruled by the EU.

Quote
I thought one of the attractions of Roy was that he wasn't political, was a gentleman, kept his council on all things and only talked about the game in terms of the last 90 minutes or the next 90 minutes.
Everything seems to distract him from the job at hand, a job he's trying to overly justify as being a huge rebuilding job. We finished seventh, not seventeenth. Yes we lost Masch but we're not ten places weaker for that. If the players are utilised to their strengths, we should, and even more so considering the unconvincing starts overall that Spurs and Man City have made, be in the thick of the challenge for a CL spot.
I'm not sure of his agenda. Maybe it comes from insecurity. My opinion of him has changed quite a bit and not for the better sadly.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 02, 2010, 05:04:59 PM
OK, re ASI - and the little englander thing.  I am in total agreement re the EU monster and the need to be out of it.  The little englander thing is nothing to do with that.   It's about tiny minds, like big sam's, that think english bosses (and players) should be appointed to premiership jobs.   WTF  It's 2010.  Clubs will appoint the best man for the job.  And that's the way it should be.

Thanks for the clarification dude. Worthy of a suitable icon... :-*
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on November 02, 2010, 07:14:37 PM
Ok guys, obviously I know the argument about Roy...I was shouting itself very recently....I'm just giving the man his dues and we'll see what happens home to Napoli and Chelsea.....
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 03, 2010, 11:59:08 AM
I'm convinced Roy still thinks hes managing Fulham. Otherwise I'm not sure how he thinks on paper Napoli, Steaua and Utrecht are even with Liverpool on paper. Were we playing Juve, Valencia and Ajax he may have had a point.

Is Henry around for this game on Thursday, will he be at Anfield? Aside from the traveling I'm not sure why Roy would play weakened teams in the first three games of the group and then decide to play a strong team 3 days before the Chelsea game. My only thinking would be that Henry is still in England and Roy needs his team to perform.

http://www.teamtalk.com/liverpool/6483924/Hodgson-vows-to-field-strong-line-up

Liverpool boss Roy Hodgson has pledged to field a strong team in Thursday night's Europa League clash at home to Napoli.

The 63-year-old believes four points from their remaining three games - two of which are at home - will be enough for his Group K leaders.

And even with a huge match against Chelsea looming on Sunday, Hodgson, in contrast to their away European fixtures, is prepared to field an experienced side.

"I think if we can get four more points, we'll be pretty much secure for a place in the next round as I can see the other games being tight," he said.

"We got one of the tougher groups with Napoli, Steaua and Utrecht and on paper it looked even, but we've done what we've needed to do.

"We'll have a strong team out on Thursday, we won't rest too many.

"When you're playing these European games, it's the travelling that's one of the worst aspects.

"You're away for three days and you're very concerned about the way the players will react, not just to the game but also the travelling.

"At home, it's a slightly lesser problem but of course we need to look at the minutes people are playing and try to keep some sort of balance there.

"Of course there are international games coming up as well and some players might get a week without a game and others won't - so we have to take that into consideration."

Hodgson will be without Joe Cole (hamstring), Dirk Kuyt (ankle) and Daniel Agger (calf) while Sotirios Kyrgiakos was withdrawn from training on Tuesday as a precaution after complaining of a groin problem.

Ryan Babel is training with the squad after a rib injury and Glen Johnson could end his four-match absence with a thigh problem.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on November 03, 2010, 12:21:04 PM
Glad to hear we'll put out a strong side. Going to Anfield on a Thursday night has been like going to watch the reserves. This is ok some times but ticket prices need to reflect this. A win tomorrow and anything but a defeat on sunday and Woy will be here until at least Xmas.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 03, 2010, 03:24:17 PM
Aside from the traveling I'm not sure why Roy would play weakened teams in the first three games of the group and then decide to play a strong team 3 days before the Chelsea game.

It's a good idea. Two wins on the bounce, another against Napoli at home would further boost confidence and build momentum ahead of the Chelsea game. Also, the more the first choice eleven (as many of them as we can field, injury permitting) can play together, hopefully the quicker and more sustained the improvement will be.

Also, having lost the great chance of a trophy with the Northampton debacle, we need to take our remaining competitions more seriously.

I wonder if he's had a few instructions from above.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 03, 2010, 05:28:31 PM
I dont know Tes I think Roy might have ulterior motives like Henry being around to see the game.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 03, 2010, 05:38:52 PM
This piece by John McMahon I find rubbish. Hes good enough, hes old enough. Coutihno gets on for Inter. Bojan, Messi Dos Santos all got games for Barcelona. Madrid have no qualms throwing younger players into games.

I dont think Pacheco necessarily needs to start but I think hes easily good enough to bring on in games and has contributed every time he has done so. Putting him back in the reserves to learn his trade is a cop out and will see him walk in the summer.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/roy-s-pacheco-plan-revealed

Roy's Pacheco plan revealed

John McMahon has revealed Roy Hodgson's first-team plan for starlet Dani Pacheco.

The Spanish ace is regarded as one of the most talented youngsters in Europe after rising to prominence in a withdrawn striking role.

However, this season he has been deployed more regularly on the right-side of midfield, a switch that McMahon feels can boost the No.12's claims for more first-team involvement.

Click on the play button to watch McMahon on Pacheco

"The boss (Roy Hodgson) is keen on him," he told Liverpoolfc.tv.

"He sees Dani filling those wide roles, so when he plays for the reserves he occupies those positions and learns to adapt and play in them.

"It's good for his development to learn several roles and it will only benefit him, especially if he's required to do a job for the first-team."
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 03, 2010, 05:48:14 PM
Playing another player out of position!!! Hell's Bells!! Play him where he will be most effective instead of trying to put a round peg into a square hole.

How many people have called for Johnson to be moved forward to right wing with Kelly deployed at right-back? Flippin' loads and still Roy doesn't see the obvious.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 03, 2010, 07:50:24 PM
This piece by John McMahon I find rubbish. Hes good enough, hes old enough. Coutihno gets on for Inter. Bojan, Messi Dos Santos all got games for Barcelona. Madrid have no qualms throwing younger players into games.

I dont think Pacheco necessarily needs to start but I think hes easily good enough to bring on in games and has contributed every time he has done so. Putting him back in the reserves to learn his trade is a cop out and will see him walk in the summer.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/roy-s-pacheco-plan-revealed

Roy's Pacheco plan revealed

John McMahon has revealed Roy Hodgson's first-team plan for starlet Dani Pacheco.

The Spanish ace is regarded as one of the most talented youngsters in Europe after rising to prominence in a withdrawn striking role.

However, this season he has been deployed more regularly on the right-side of midfield, a switch that McMahon feels can boost the No.12's claims for more first-team involvement.

Click on the play button to watch McMahon on Pacheco

"The boss (Roy Hodgson) is keen on him," he told Liverpoolfc.tv.

"He sees Dani filling those wide roles, so when he plays for the reserves he occupies those positions and learns to adapt and play in them.

"It's good for his development to learn several roles and it will only benefit him, especially if he's required to do a job for the first-team."

It's called avoiding the issue. And wasn't Hodgson bemoaning his lack of forwards just the other day, calling Kuyt and Babel wide players, despite stating at the start of the season that Babel would be given a chance to prove himself as a striker:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/10/roy-hodgson-fernando-torres-liverpool (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/10/roy-hodgson-fernando-torres-liverpool)
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=821903&cc=5739 (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=821903&cc=5739)

Unless both journalists misinterpretted Hodgsons words, but he's neither been given a chance or played as a striker much in his cameo appearances.

So what chance does Pacheco have and now he's being moved out wide despite the reserves apparently being short of strikers also:

"We have the same problem with the reserves. We don't have any strikers and a winger called Nathan Ecclestone has to play up front." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1325214/Roy-Hodgson-desperate-sign-new-striker-Liverpool.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1325214/Roy-Hodgson-desperate-sign-new-striker-Liverpool.html)

So we have a winger being played as a striker and he wants to play a forward as a winger?

Although he may not be suited to a loan striker role he can certainly play with a stike partner or as a withdrawn striker.

Arses and elbows. They're all the same to our supposed manager.  ::)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on November 04, 2010, 01:16:03 AM
Hey guys, since we're on the subject of management in this thread. I came across a list of a possible
top twenty of all time at the Equaliser site.....(I note Shanks at number 10!)

http://equaliserfootball.com/manager-series/
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 04, 2010, 01:29:34 AM
Hey guys, since we're on the subject of management in this thread. I came across a list of a possible
top twenty of all time at the Equaliser site.....(I note Shanks at number 10!)

http://equaliserfootball.com/manager-series/

Some big hitters in there Ed.

Many of them are from times too far back to allow me to judge fairly. Good to see Shanks and Paisley in there.

Id say you could ask one million people to name their top 20 managers of all time and everybody's list could be different.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2010, 05:51:01 AM
great link, Ed.  I have got through the top 2 managers.  Awesome research/articles. 

Very enjoyable (and enlightening) reading.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 04, 2010, 12:11:10 PM
It's a good idea. Two wins on the bounce, another against Napoli at home would further boost confidence and build momentum ahead of the Chelsea game. Also, the more the first choice eleven (as many of them as we can field, injury permitting) can play together, hopefully the quicker and more sustained the improvement will be.

Also, having lost the great chance of a trophy with the Northampton debacle, we need to take our remaining competitions more seriously.

I wonder if he's had a few instructions from above.

Henrys wife has confirmed they will be at tonights game.

For me that's the only reason Roys decided to change his tactic on playing a strong team in the Europa Cup. Realistically why else would he change now 3 games in while using a second team and 3 days before the Chelsea game. Why risk getting players like Gerrard or Torres injured. Roys fighting for his Anfield life.

As for Henrys wife's tweet below. At least shes making an effort.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/11/04/what-reds-songs-should-linda-pizzuti-wife-of-new-liverpool-fc-owner-john-w-henry-be-learning-100252-27599451/

What Reds songs should Linda Pizzuti, wife of new Liverpool FC owner John W Henry, be learning?

Nov 4 2010 Dan Kay
Comment (1)
Recommend

LINDA PIZZUTI, wife of new Liverpool FC owner John W Henry will attend her first match at Anfield tonight against Napoli in the Europa League and has asked Reds fans on Twitter what songs, aside from You'll Never Walk Alone, she should be learning.

"Studying up in the Anfield songbook to prepare for my first LFC match tomorrow night-can't wait! Aside from YNWA, what songs should I learn?" less than a minute ago via TweetDeckLinda Pizzuti
Linda_Pizzuti
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 05, 2010, 01:17:50 AM
Henrys wife has confirmed they will be at tonights game.

For me that's the only reason Roys decided to change his tactic on playing a strong team in the Europa Cup. Realistically why else would he change now 3 games in while using a second team and 3 days before the Chelsea game. Why risk getting players like Gerrard or Torres injured. Roys fighting for his Anfield life.

As for Henrys wife's tweet below. At least shes making an effort.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/11/04/what-reds-songs-should-linda-pizzuti-wife-of-new-liverpool-fc-owner-john-w-henry-be-learning-100252-27599451/

What Reds songs should Linda Pizzuti, wife of new Liverpool FC owner John W Henry, be learning?

Nov 4 2010 Dan Kay
Comment (1)
Recommend

LINDA PIZZUTI, wife of new Liverpool FC owner John W Henry will attend her first match at Anfield tonight against Napoli in the Europa League and has asked Reds fans on Twitter what songs, aside from You'll Never Walk Alone, she should be learning.

"Studying up in the Anfield songbook to prepare for my first LFC match tomorrow night-can't wait! Aside from YNWA, what songs should I learn?" less than a minute ago via TweetDeckLinda Pizzuti
Linda_Pizzuti

She's not bad in a 'after a few drinks' sort of way.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 05, 2010, 07:02:22 AM
Pellegrini's off the market.....signed up for Malaga.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2010, 11:30:13 AM
a good man knows his limitations.   

ok, looks like Ottmar Hitzfeld then. 

assuming Di Matteo isn't available.   :D

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2010, 11:47:46 AM
She's not bad in a 'after a few drinks' sort of way.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49823000/jpg/_49823517_010566981-1.jpg)

Linda Pizzuti, the wife of Liverpool owner John Henry, has thanked Reds supporters for making her first visit to Anfield an "incredible" experience.

Pizzuti used Twitter to ask fans which songs she should learn for Thursday's Europa League match with Napoli.

And after watching the Reds come from behind to win 3-1, she posted a string of tweets raving about the atmosphere.

"The 'You're not singing anymore' chant at the muted Napoli fans once we pulled ahead was a highlight..." she wrote.

Boston Red Sox owner Henry and real estate developer Pizzuti got married last year at the team's Fenway Park stadium when he was 59 and she was 30.

The duo had been in Liverpool since Tuesday before attending their first home match since Henry's New England Sports Ventures group completed their £300m takeover of the club.

Having tweeted on Tuesday that she was enjoying exploring the "cool city" of Liverpool, Pizzuti followed up on Wednesday with a plea to Reds fans.

"Studying up in the Anfield songbook to prepare for my first LFC match tomorrow night-can't wait! Aside from YNWA [club anthem You'll Never Walk Alone], what songs should I learn?," she wrote.

During the game, television cameras regularly captured the pair, with Henry seen shaking his head after Napoli took a first-half lead.

But they were soon celebrating with a raucous Anfield crowd as beloved skipper Steven Gerrard came off the bench to score a hat-trick.

"Wow! Anfield really is a special place! Fantastic match (certainly heard the Gerrard song!) with first class and very fun supporters," Pizzuti tweeted on Thursday morning.

"And finally experiencing the famous Kop. Hearing, seeing, and feeling the massive force, spirit, and fun of it is incredible."

Pizzuti admitted she still has some way to go before becoming a true Koppite.

"Thank you for all of the song recommendations, sounds like "The Fields of Anfield Road" is my next lesson," she wrote.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2010, 11:49:48 AM
like footballer autobiographies, is this twitter based stuff ghost written by PR/spin specialists.

Like when Gillett and Hicks arrived, all this is far too nice/spot-on to be real.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 05, 2010, 12:43:49 PM
She's not bad in a 'after a few drinks' sort of way.

I'm sure shes married to Henry because she loves him dearly!!  ;D

"Thanks Money, I mean Honey".
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 05, 2010, 12:49:53 PM
Pellegrini's off the market.....signed up for Malaga.

Thats a pity.

In Roy's world Malaga would probably be Liverpool's Spanish equivalent. They have had a similar start to us in the league!

If Pelegrini is off the list how about this guy;

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11833_6482940,00.html

Changing the Guard
Revista look at what the future holds for the Barca chief

Last updated: 3rd November 2010
Graham Hunter

Pep Guardiola will leave Barcelona - but not for at least another 12 months.

That was the verdict of Graham Hunter as Revista de la Liga looked at the stories linking the Barcelona boss with a move to England.

The Spanish press have reported that both Chelsea and Manchester United want the man who took the Catalan club to an unprecedented treble in his first season in charge.

With a new president, Sandro Rosell, now in situe at the Camp Nou, and his contract up at the end of the season, doubts have emerged surrounding Guardiola's future.

"I don't think it's coincidence at all that after this second meeting of the season with Sandro Rossell, a new president with whom he has got an empathy, but an edgy developing relationship, that two different papers - one a Madrid paper but with a Catalan, writer the other a Catalan paper - have run storties about Manchester United wanting him, Chelsea wanting him," Hunter told Revista.

But rather than mean the coach is about to walk out on Lionel Messi and co, Hunter believes he is merely strengthening his hand when it does come to negotiating a new deal.

That is likely to be done at the end of the year, but is not likely to be a long-term deal that will tie down a coach who has talked of a three or four-year plan for success - and is now in his third season.

"It's very traditional tactics," said Hunter.

"Pep is a clever man, he is using the power play so when he talks about renewing his contract - he's out of contract at the end of the season but the club obviously want him - when he talks about what players he might buy, what players need to be sold and how he might handle the debts, he needs a powerful hand. I think he's manipulated the media very well indeed.

"Will he stay or not? I'm not entirely clear but I trust in (Andoni) Zubizarreta who, as well as saying this week they are interested in Gareth Bale, says 'we believe we have a long-term coach in Pep Guardiola'.

"At this stage I think that means another 12 months. I think he'll probably stay, not forever, but for the short-term at least."


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 05, 2010, 01:02:34 PM
She's not bad in a 'after a few drinks' sort of way.

Sheesh....my standards must be pretty low as I wouldn't say NO....lol
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on November 05, 2010, 01:43:53 PM
She's not bad in a 'after a few drinks' sort of way.

I wouldnt need a drink to look after her for a couple of hours whilst Johns busy at the game. Your standards must be very high Tes because after a few drinks my beer goggles tell me the women in the link below is worth a go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxPZh4AnWyk
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on November 05, 2010, 01:49:24 PM
I'm only joking. I wouldnt touch her on a few drinks. No way. Maybe 5 and i'd start thinking about :o :o :o
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2010, 03:35:32 PM
Sheesh....my standards must be pretty low as I wouldn't say NO....lol

she looks the business to me too, gurdeep!

very nice.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 05, 2010, 03:36:07 PM
I wouldnt need a drink to look after her for a couple of hours whilst Johns busy at the game. Your standards must be very high Tes because after a few drinks my beer goggles tell me the women in the link below is worth a go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxPZh4AnWyk

lolololol
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2010, 03:39:24 PM
ok with pelegini off to malaga.......where do we go from here.

suggestions?

I'm still going with hetzfeld.

Juan mentions guardiola

Tes is big on Di Matteo

I'll also throw in guus  :D

what about Scolari?

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 05, 2010, 05:08:15 PM
Heres something interesting. I wont paste the full articles but will give you the gist. When Comolli was signed the other day Roy suggested that he would have final say on transfers.

This is a quote from Roy from an article in the guardian;

Asked whether he retained the final say on signings, the manager replied: "I do, yes. We will have to wait and see, I suppose, but there is no reason for me not to believe that. I would be very surprised if managers and coaches of the class of Martin Jol and Juande Ramos just took players totally on somebody else's recommendation. It won't happen here. I don't think so anyway.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/04/roy-hodgson-liverpool-damien-comolli-appointment

Although there are no quotes from Henry to confirm so the article below suggests Roy will need to go Comolli to give the final say on a transfer. I suppose we will find out for sure in time.

http://sport.virginmedia.com/football/article/2010/11/05/hodgson_surprised_by_comolli_deal_henry

Henrys quotes do suggest Roy will get a chance to turn things around so it is looking like Roys sticking around for a while. Heres one quote from Henry to back that up.

The model really requires people of certain personalities for it to work and Roy and Damien are two personalities who will mesh well together."
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 05, 2010, 07:46:19 PM
Interesting article;

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2010/1105/1224282783086.html

No guarantees for Hodgson from Henry

Soccer: Liverpool owner John W Henry declined to give any guarantees about under-fire manager Roy Hodgson's long-term future but said there were no immediate plans for change.

The American, who took over the Premier League club last month, was similarly non-committal about plans for a new ground, saying it could take another two years before the Merseyside club decided whether to build a new stadium or expand Anfield.

Asked if Hodgson, under pressure after a poor start to the season, was the right man for the job, Henry said: "He certainly is at this point. I can't make any promises about the future for anything in the organisation because two months ago I didn't know that much about English football."

Henry, whose New England Sports Ventures (NESV) also owns baseball's Boston Red Sox, added: "We tend to stay with our managers and our general managers. Roy didn't build this team so I think he has been unfairly criticised this year.

"I think it is my role at this point to support him in every way, to make sure he has the resources to accomplish what he wants to accomplish. There is no change that is imminent."

He promised investment in the squad but did not give any clue as to how much money Hodgson, at Anfield since July, might have to spend in the next transfer window. Decisions on buying players would be taken collectively by the manager, new director of football strategy Damien Comolli and the board, Henry said.

"We need to invest in this team," he said, adding that Liverpool were well placed to compete financially with the top clubs but needed "to work on the football side".

"Our long term objectives are to be able to compete with Arsenal, Manchester United and Chelsea. We have to be able to be competitive with them at the top of the league every year," he said.

"In order to do that we have to build a long-term strategy, you can't do things for the short term. Some things were done before we came in that were stop gaps for the short term, we've got to change that."
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 05, 2010, 08:35:34 PM
the more they all say, the less it sounds like my club anymore, the less it feels like liverpool.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: JohnnyH on November 05, 2010, 09:15:20 PM
Hodgson is here until June at the very least.  Get used to it.  Although Henry didn't give a long term backing, he very clearly said Hodgson deserves to be allowed to create a team and see from there.  That means he gets the January transfer and, at the very least, the second half of the season to see how they play.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 06, 2010, 12:31:44 AM
the more they all say, the less it sounds like my club anymore, the less it feels like liverpool.

Couldn't agree more.

And who are NESV turning to for football advice?  Where did they get Comolli whatever his name is from??? Who told them that hiring this guy would be a good move?
 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 06, 2010, 01:12:36 AM
I wouldnt need a drink to look after her for a couple of hours whilst Johns busy at the game. Your standards must be very high Tes because after a few drinks my beer goggles tell me the women in the link below is worth a go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxPZh4AnWyk

She's a whole brewery's worth, at least. Chastity is more appealing than that 'not so' wee Scots lassie.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 06, 2010, 01:17:58 AM
Couldn't agree more.

And who are NESV turning to for football advice?  Where did they get Comolli whatever his name is from??? Who told them that hiring this guy would be a good move?
 

Billy Beane, the general manager of the Oakland A's baseball team. These Americans really need to 'get out more'. Forget what they know as far as 'sports' are concerned and learn about European, including English, football from Europeans.   
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 06, 2010, 01:27:12 AM
Couldn't agree more.

And who are NESV turning to for football advice?  Where did they get Comolli whatever his name is from??? Who told them that hiring this guy would be a good move?
 

exactly.

so much for all this listening to fans stuff, that NEVS say they have been doing.

judge us by our actions, not what we say, they told us.

okay, well I will say it now.........based on their two key decisions to date - the creation of a Director of Football role......and this appointment of a yankee, know-fek-all-about-football, Managing Director, they have fecked up big time.  And this same new MD wants the 39th abroad game.

they are not taking us back to the Liverpool of old.....instead they are turning us into bluddy Tottenham.

For goodness sake, get on the phone to david dein.  It will all fall into place if you have appoint one top man like him.    Mind you, I wouldn't be totally surprised if dein wanted a 39th game as well.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 06, 2010, 01:33:49 AM
exactly.

so much for all this listening to fans stuff, that NEVS say they have been doing.

judge us by our actions, not what we say, they told us.

okay, well I will say it now.........based on their two key decisions to date - the creation of a Director of Football role......and this appointment of a yankee, know-fek-all-about-football, Managing Director, they have fecked up big time.  And this same new MD wants the 39th abroad game.

they are not taking us back to the Liverpool of old.....instead they are turning us into bluddy Tottenham.

For goodness sake, get on the phone to david dein.  It will all fall into place if you have appoint one top man like him.    Mind you, I wouldn't be totally surprised if dein wanted a 39th game as well.

Dude, what we want I think we'll only get from our memories.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 06, 2010, 01:36:16 AM
Dude, what we want I think we'll only get from our memories.

true, Tes.

and we both know Tes, that these first two decisions they have made, are not what we are about. 

so much for listening.

who the hell did they listen to.



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 06, 2010, 01:42:40 AM
true, Tes.

and we both know Tes, that these first two decisions they have made, are not what we are about. 

so much for listening.

who the hell did they listen to.

And they've yet to totally rule out groundsharing also.

I hate that they aren't appearing to use football people for advice about football. I understand the general comparison between ourselves and the Red Sox, but it's only a very general one. I guess we've got to reserve judgement but the taste at the moment it's leaving is none too sweet.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 06, 2010, 08:29:44 AM
All excellent points, red men

Maybe NESV are listening to the English media, and to the no mark in our dug-out...but they sure aren't listening to the Kop.  I was disgusted against Napoli when Fulham's manager of the year suddenly becomes animated and jumps up and down on his chair because he's trying to impress his boss - why the f**k wasn't he doing that trying to impress usand his players when we were in the relegation zone???? Too late now Royboy. 3 'tough' fixtures or a bad one to Stevie G and you're a gonner.

I'm not going to totally stack into Henry and dust down my Yanks out of our home banner just yet but I am really concerned that our club is about to be reshaped around our heads into something we just don't want to recognise and care for anymore. They're backing Roy, but we told him loud and clear he wasn't a Liverpool manager ("Dalglish, Dalglish"); they appointed that most Tottenham (media flavour of the month, anyone?) of positions - a fuckwit Czar of Football; they haven't ruled out a groundshare, or even actually promised a new ground at all; and now we have a man in charge of the most unique football club in England who doesn't even know what the usual dross clubs in England are run like.  He's a baseball man apparently.  I guess Henry made the connection because that too has 'ball' in the title. As in 'Head-the-ball'.

Sorry fellas I don't want to come over all negative at the very start of the new regime, its just breaking my heart to see basic decisions being wrongly made now that will affect our lives for years to come - again!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 06, 2010, 03:20:30 PM
And they've yet to totally rule out groundsharing also.

I hate that they aren't appearing to use football people for advice about football. I understand the general comparison between ourselves and the Red Sox, but it's only a very general one. I guess we've got to reserve judgement but the taste at the moment it's leaving is none too sweet.

agreed Tes and clem.

After all this supposed listening to fans and local people, NESV go and make two major decisions that are blunders IMHO.

And as you say Tes, they have not as yet ruled out groundsharing.    I don't worry so much on that issue, because if they were ever to even try it, the repercussions would be massive across our fanbase.  It would be akin to burning an effigy of the pope in the vatican square on Easter Sunday. 

But people like Dalglish want to talk to everton about groundsharing.  It staggers belief.  A lot of other ex players want it too.  Houghton, Kennedy, etc.

My fear, and I finally got very suspicious with the twitter cra.p from mrs henry in midweek, is that all this talking and listening stuff is pure media/marketing spin.  NESV want to be seen to be doing the right thing and to be great people.  But what use is it, if they end up going and doing whatever they want (and most likely had previously planned to do anyway).

Creation of a Director of Football role is a massive mistake.  Appointing an american chairman, who knows nothing about the running of a premiership football club, is a massive mistake.

Two decisions taken so far - two massive blunders made.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 06, 2010, 05:45:27 PM
agreed Tes and clem.

After all this supposed listening to fans and local people, NESV go and make two major decisions that are blunders IMHO.

And as you say Tes, they have not as yet ruled out groundsharing.    I don't worry so much on that issue, because if they were ever to even try it, the repercussions would be massive across our fanbase.  It would be akin to burning an effigy of the pope in the vatican square on Easter Sunday. 

But people like Dalglish want to talk to everton about groundsharing.  It staggers belief.  A lot of other ex players want it too.  Houghton, Kennedy, etc.

My fear, and I finally got very suspicious with the twitter cra.p from mrs henry in midweek, is that all this talking and listening stuff is pure media/marketing spin.  NESV want to be seen to be doing the right thing and to be great people.  But what use is it, if they end up going and doing whatever they want (and most likely had previously planned to do anyway).

Creation of a Director of Football role is a massive mistake.  Appointing an american chairman, who knows nothing about the running of a premiership football club, is a massive mistake.

Two decisions taken so far - two massive blunders made.

The CEO/MD appoint will prove more than interesting now. Having 'talked' so much about Arsenal and a few passing nods in the direction of Bayern, their first appointments seem to be taking us in any direction but the expected (or most likely desired) one.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 06, 2010, 10:17:24 PM
If Roy gets 7 points from the next two games I've got no problem with him ruining my Christmas by still being at the club.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 12:03:19 AM
The CEO/MD appoint will prove more than interesting now. Having 'talked' so much about a*senal and a few passing nods in the direction of Bayern, their first appointments seem to be taking us in any direction but the expected (or most likely desired) one.

agreed.

rather than turning us into an arsenal, they are turning us into a spurs.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 12:05:07 AM
If Roy gets 7 points from the next two games I've got no problem with him ruining my Christmas by still being at the club.

 :D

bad dismissal, bad appointment.

but who is now at the club, senior enough, to know enough to bring in the right football man.

benitez was a brilliant appointment........we probably won't see his like again, anytime soon...I am afraid.  :(
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 07, 2010, 01:56:24 AM

but who is now at the club, senior enough, to know enough to bring in the right football man.


Exactly, Dude. That's the catch 22 problem. Dalglish is the only one steeped in football, played under Paisley, successful player manager (a monstrous feat in itself), championship winning manager with two seperate clubs, that has enough football experience and knowledge and is intelligent enough as a human being to stand any chance of pulling off the required decisions. He should be a central figure in the re-shaping of the club as chief advisor to the new owners. Parry, despite his limitations and monumental error with the Toxics, is still knowledgable enough through his work setting up the Premier League and has moved in the right football administration circles to be able to advise on board member requirements and the required administrative structure of a football club.
Why Commoli, and why ask the General Manager of a Baseball team for advice on roles and structures, and specific personnel to fill them, within a football club?

I'd have no problem, in fact I like the idea of a football board that would make the footballing decisions, whilst the board (in a more traditional sense) ran the business/financial side.  But where does a DOF's responsibilities start and a manager's end? The football board would decide the broad outline of the direction the club follows and the manager instigates it, fills in and carries out the details. It also means there are checks and balances against poor transfer decisions or least a reduction in the chance of mistakes.
It seems as though Commoli will decide the football ethos but if that ethos is wrong, though correctly actioned by the manager, because it's flawed therefore doesn't work, who is accountable and pays with his job, the manager or Commoli?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 09:09:40 AM
good to see you positive on Parry, Tes.

despite his toxics link, and his slow pace, I always  had respect for Parry.

And who knows, someone like him may well be now appointed as Chief Executive.  The paragraph at the bottom of the article below, quotes the yanks as wanting a Chief Executive who has connections with the club, knows the club and it's fans.

Hodgson has welcomed the appointment of Comolli, saying: “I think clubs need a strategy and they need a long term strategy and we football managers cannot guarantee long term strategy, that is fairly obvious,” he said.

“I can’t be running Liverpool and at the same time wondering what 12 year old is going to be joining the academy and how the academy is going to be run and how the scouting system is going to be run.

“You need people to do this and all clubs have got this, it's just a case of what you call them. We have a good man. Damien Comolli is a good man and he knows his football and he is experienced and had great success at Tottenham and St Etienne and I’m delighted to welcome him here and he will be a great help to me because the time I have had putting down on other areas, maybe now somebody will be there taking the burden off my shoulders or at least easing the burden but at the end of the day it will be us working together in terms of recruitment.”

Having appointed Comolli on Tuesday the club have begun the next stage of assembling their new team at Anfield by engaging a London head-hunting firm to help find them a chief executive. Henry and Werner met with recruitment specialists on Friday evening but do not anticipate an imminent appointment.

“We want to have a wide net but in a perfect world we want someone who has a connection with Liverpool and who understands the connections between the fans and Liverpool,” Werner said.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 07, 2010, 10:28:32 AM
Hodgson's talking more as a European style coach. Everything from the reserves down is not really the domain of the coach.

I can see the need to share the load. Football clubs now are huge, complex businesses in compared with what they were in the past.

The manager though should always be the one to decide the make up of the squad, indentify the targets and the players he's willing to lose.

I would much prefer a three man football board so the policies are as a result of concensus and pooled knowledge as opposed to one man, like a DOF, deciding almost unilaterally. 

If 'the club' is going to set the footballing philosophy then it's vital that any manager appointed shares that philosophy, and again a consensus based decision using pooled knowledge stands more chance of identifying the correct candidate than a single figure.

And then there's the question of accountability and who pays the price if things aren't working out as intended.
Is it the manager's fault that he was appointed to work with players who he wouldn't neccessarily choose and aren't the sort around which he would fashion a team, given the chance? And if he doesn't get to make the decisions about who he wants to change the team and improve it, can he be deemed to be at fault as much as if all the decisions were his?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 07, 2010, 10:48:18 AM

And then there's the question of accountability and who pays the price if things aren't working out as intended.
Is it the manager's fault that he was appointed to work with players who he wouldn't neccessarily choose and aren't the sort around which he would fashion a team, given the chance? And if he doesn't get to make the decisions about who he wants to change the team and improve it, can he be deemed to be at fault as much as if all the decisions were his?

win-win for Roy: all the current squad, it seems, are Rafa's disaster, and anyone from here on in is Damien's damage. He's smarter than he looks. And talks.

Parry helped Moores sell to the Yanks - he cannot come back. He failed in his duty of care to the club and its fans by not examining that deal properly. Besides, what did he achieve here? One thing we need is an old anfield hand on the board - like Kenny. Currently we have two Americans and a group of London 'head-hunters' deciding our immediate future.  Does this worry anyone else or am I just still tetchy after H&G???
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2010, 10:58:58 AM
I would appoint Kenny as our worldwide ambassador.....similar to bobby charlton's role at united.

I wouldn't give Kenny any managerial authority.  I do not agree at all with Kenny's desire to speak with everton about groundsharing.  And I lost some respect for him, in the way he threw his own cap into the ring when it came to looking for a new manager.  Apart from a big pay day for him, I saw nothing else that would have came out of such an appointment. 

Agreed Tes, clear idenitification (if it is possible under such a stupid structure) is essential.  Arsene Wenger makes that same point as well.  Personally, I don't think it is possible.  Any new man, worth his salt, wants his own lieutenants/team around him.  Any existing manager, working with a DoF, will have much scope for conflict. 

I would have no problem re-creating some form of bootroom.  People like John Aldridge (even Roy Evans) who are highly intelligent and love the club, need to be used.   They would be there for a lifetime and provide continuity.  People like Collinni will be at anfield for 10 minutes.

Top clubs need continuity.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 07, 2010, 12:46:59 PM
win-win for Roy: all the current squad, it seems, are Rafa's disaster, and anyone from here on in is Damien's damage. He's smarter than he looks. And talks.

Parry helped Moores sell to the Yanks - he cannot come back. He failed in his duty of care to the club and its fans by not examining that deal properly. Besides, what did he achieve here? One thing we need is an old anfield hand on the board - like Kenny. Currently we have two Americans and a group of London 'head-hunters' deciding our immediate future.  Does this worry anyone else or am I just still tetchy after H&G???

Clem, I wouldn't want Parry back at the club, but his football administration knowledge and experience could be utilised at this early stage. Totally agree with the you about the people shaping our immediate future.
A football club's CEO/MD needs specific talents and knowledge in addition to those of a CEO/MD of a more conventional business. I have no problem with Werner being the chairman, however seeking advice from a baseball general manager about association football seems strange to say the least.
They need to stop trying to transpose an American sports based setup to a European sport.

I prefer the Bayern model of having a football board, with all the inherent knowledge and football based experience.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 07, 2010, 02:05:55 PM
They need to stop trying to transpose an American sports based setup to a European sport.

You nailed it Tes!  And therelies the problem.

Don't get me wrong, still happy that we got rid of the toxic twins but, and this is a big but, still sceptical of NESV.  Like they said themselves, actions speak louder than words, but so far all I've heard is talk and something about a 39th game!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 07, 2010, 02:52:55 PM
You nailed it Tes!  And therelies the problem.

Don't get me wrong, still happy that we got rid of the toxic twins but, and this is a big but, still sceptical of NESV.  Like they said themselves, actions speak louder than words, but so far all I've heard is talk and something about a 39th game!

absolutely fellas, absolutely
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on November 09, 2010, 03:25:15 PM

November 08, 2010
It's time to put an end to the traitorous BETRAYAL of Roy Hodgson...

Read more: http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2010/11/time-for-traitorous-betrayal-of-roy.html#ixzz14nbjssHE

Take a look at this worth a read and a laugh! He's only backing Roy coz he was so anti Rafa.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on November 09, 2010, 03:29:16 PM
' Unbeaten in 8 European games in a row. Rafa Benitez's record is 13 in a row, and I wouldn't bet against Hodgson achieving that, or even beating it.'


Woys managing us in the Europa league.Rafa's games in Europe were mainly in the Champions League!!



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 09, 2010, 04:13:16 PM
' Unbeaten in 8 European games in a row. Rafa Benitez's record is 13 in a row, and I wouldn't bet against Hodgson achieving that, or even beating it.'


Woys managing us in the Europa league.Rafa's games in Europe were mainly in the Champions League!!

Exactly. Which ever criteria you apply, there are managers better suited to what we require from a manager than Roy Hodgson.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 09, 2010, 05:20:16 PM
jamie is always good for a laugh (thanks for the link, kopite).

woy is out of his depth.

i think we beat chelsea not because of woy....but because we had kuyt back again.....and our lads have played chelsea 100 times in the past 4 or 5 years....so we played the blues on auto-pilot.



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 09, 2010, 08:59:22 PM
I think Jamie is genuinely a nasty piece of work.

He had huge issues with Benitez as manager and to this day still wont let it go. I would go as far as saying hes obsessed. He isnt capable of allowing supporters have differing opinions.

He was pro active in creating the pro and anti rafa divide and now he is trying to continue to pit Liverpool fans against each other by attempting to create a pro and anti roy divide. The guys malicious, he cant just write a straight forward article about the weekends game, there always has to be a cynical motive aimed at splitting fans.

Football wouldnt be football if fans didnt share different opinions but he attempts to create something more sinister out of that. Without people like him Liverpool fans would be far more harmonious toward each other like the days of old, like now people could agree to disagree on whether you think Roy should go or not but he doesnt want that civility.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 09, 2010, 09:24:39 PM
I think Jamie is genuinely a nasty piece of work.

He had huge issues with Benitez as manager and to this day still wont let it go. I would go as far as saying hes obsessed. He isnt capable of allowing supporters have differing opinions.

He was pro active in creating the pro and anti rafa divide and now he is trying to continue to pit Liverpool fans against each other by attempting to create a pro and anti roy divide. The guys malicious, he cant just write a straight forward article about the weekends game, there always has to be a cynical motive aimed at splitting fans.

Football wouldnt be football if fans didnt share different opinions but he attempts to create something more sinister out of that. Without people like him Liverpool fans would be far more harmonious toward each other like the days of old, like now people could agree to disagree on whether you think Roy should go or not but he doesnt want that civility.

I have real doubts than Kanwar's a Red, at least not of the LFC variety. If you call him out on his propaganda, even if you prove him wrong factually, he just deletes the posts. He's an attention seeking muppet and is best left alone on his wharped little planet.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 10, 2010, 06:43:57 PM
the key is to laugh at him.

Jamie craves the attention.  Don't get annoyed, just treat the posts with the contempt and mirth they deserve.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on November 10, 2010, 07:16:54 PM
Is he a cockney?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 10, 2010, 07:25:10 PM
He is a cockney.

Spot on Kopite.  :D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: FowlersGod on November 11, 2010, 03:13:40 PM
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://i52.tinypic.com/2zrl2dy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://scouse.forum-gratuiti.com/liverpool-fc-f1/jamie-kanwar-manc-rat-in-disguise-t598-15.htm&usg=__b_lxGI1zxbasl1_snEaSScHH0Xg=&h=599&w=449&sz=133&hl=en&start=23&sig2=Q3oBtabEoPqBa-9WLsoYig&zoom=1&tbnid=Yg13aFX7V7gWJM:&tbnh=161&tbnw=121&ei=6QfcTM-MKsTl4gaFmuCXCQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJaimie%2BKanwar%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D834%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C342&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=132&vpy=467&dur=2534&hovh=259&hovw=194&tx=102&ty=166&oei=4gfcTPOgEInIhAeA4cHPAg&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:23&biw=1280&bih=834

Here he is ladies and gentlemen the rat!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 12, 2010, 01:06:47 PM
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://i52.tinypic.com/2zrl2dy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://scouse.forum-gratuiti.com/liverpool-fc-f1/jamie-kanwar-manc-rat-in-disguise-t598-15.htm&usg=__b_lxGI1zxbasl1_snEaSScHH0Xg=&h=599&w=449&sz=133&hl=en&start=23&sig2=Q3oBtabEoPqBa-9WLsoYig&zoom=1&tbnid=Yg13aFX7V7gWJM:&tbnh=161&tbnw=121&ei=6QfcTM-MKsTl4gaFmuCXCQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJaimie%2BKanwar%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D834%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C342&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=132&vpy=467&dur=2534&hovh=259&hovw=194&tx=102&ty=166&oei=4gfcTPOgEInIhAeA4cHPAg&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:23&biw=1280&bih=834

Here he is ladies and gentlemen the rat!

OUTED!!!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 13, 2010, 12:58:28 AM
You have to wonder what goes through Roys head.

Today he came out defending Poulsen and backing him to come good. Poulsen is 30ish and Roys decision to sign the player was based on a time when a much younger Poulsen played for Roy at Copenhagen in 2000/01.  Poulsen may be new to the club but his record at clubs over the last few years combined with his start at the club suggests to me he will never make at Liverpool.

What I dont understand about Roy is how can he praise Poulsen in one breath and slate Johnson in another. Johnson when hes played this season has been poor defensively, Poulsen has arguably been worse. But in fairness Johnson has had an injury hit season. So why has Roy decided to castigate a 26 year old Johnson who has years left in his career and is potentially worth much more to the club yet defend an older washed up player whom we know is not good enough. For most of the season we have been calling for Johnsons inclusion on the wing but Roy refuses. Theres no doubt he can get forward, hes got a good shot and if anything is to be learned from the Bale situation at spurs its that maybe Johnson could be better suited to the wing with less defensive responsibility.

For Roy to criticise someone whose been fit to play once in the last seven league games and considering Roys only been at the club two minutes is baffling. Roy has been quick to point out that he feels criticism directed at himself is unfair because he has not yet been given a chance to show what he can do. Well then maybe Roy should take his own advice and afford Johnson the same courtesy by letting him get back fit and get a decent run in the side.

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/chester-sport/liverpool-fc-news/2010/11/12/lfc-boss-hodgson-insists-christian-poulsen-will-come-good-59067-27646778/


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/13/glen-johnson-liverpool-roy-hodgson



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 11:36:28 AM
You have to wonder what goes through Roys head.

Today he came out defending Poulsen and backing him to come good. Poulsen is 30ish and Roys decision to sign the player was based on a time when a much younger Poulsen played for Roy at Copenhagen in 2000/01.  Poulsen may be new to the club but his record at clubs over the last few years combined with his start at the club suggests to me he will never make at Liverpool.

What I dont understand about Roy is how can he praise Poulsen in one breath and slate Johnson in another. Johnson when hes played this season has been poor defensively, Poulsen has arguably been worse. But in fairness Johnson has had an injury hit season. So why has Roy decided to castigate a 26 year old Johnson who has years left in his career and is potentially worth much more to the club yet defend an older washed up player whom we know is not good enough. For most of the season we have been calling for Johnsons inclusion on the wing but Roy refuses. Theres no doubt he can get forward, hes got a good shot and if anything is to be learned from the Bale situation at spurs its that maybe Johnson could be better suited to the wing with less defensive responsibility.

For Roy to criticise someone whose been fit to play once in the last seven league games and considering Roys only been at the club two minutes is baffling. Roy has been quick to point out that he feels criticism directed at himself is unfair because he has not yet been given a chance to show what he can do. Well then maybe Roy should take his own advice and afford Johnson the same courtesy by letting him get back fit and get a decent run in the side.

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/chester-sport/liverpool-fc-news/2010/11/12/lfc-boss-hodgson-insists-christian-poulsen-will-come-good-59067-27646778/


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/13/glen-johnson-liverpool-roy-hodgson

Top post, Juan. You ought to be a journalist. A rose of sunflower proportions amongst the thorns.

As Roy's favoured line up tends to be 4-4-2, Johnson as a wide midfielder makes perfect sense. In that respect he reminds me a lot of Vagaard Hegem. In addition it means that Raul Meireles can play in his correct position in central midfield.

Juan, it smacks of being on the self defensive again. Trying to justify his mistaken decision to buy Poulsen, whilst having a pot shot at one of the poor quality players the previous manager left him with.
Granted, Johnson hasn't been great, when he's played but as you say he's had another injury hit season and how many games has he been playing in where he's either carrying an injury or coming back from injury.
Rather than castigate the player to the vutures in the media, this sort of thing needs to be kept between the player and the manager. It's hardly a way to get a player to respond by hanging him out to dry in the papers.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 13, 2010, 12:13:16 PM
Didn't Rafa publicly criticise Gerrard a few years ago? That seemed to have a positive effect on the player. I'm sure someone of Hodgson's experience thought long and hard before deciding to do it. Similarly, Adam Johnson has been criticised by Mancini.

Sometimes a public kick up the backside can work. It's not the first time it's happened and it won't be the last.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 13, 2010, 12:19:50 PM
Didn't Rafa publicly criticise Gerrard a few years ago? That seemed to have a positive effect on the player. I'm sure someone of Hodgson's experience thought long and hard before deciding to do it. Similarly, Adam Johnson has been criticised by Mancini.

Sometimes a public kick up the backside can work. It's not the first time it's happened and it won't be the last.

That's a good point. Thing is you never know how a player will react - didn't go down well with Gerard at Villa this week. Also, his timing is bad because there is already speculation about Glen, who is out injured and cannot show a reaction right away except in the press (thereby making him sit and stew on this) and he does seem unhappy.  He thought he was signing for Rafa and a team challenging in the CL and Prem. Not Fulham extra. Rafa's challenge to 'senior pros' blew up in his face last season when he found out how fickle and self-important some of these pampered egos can be. Risky games should only be played by smart people I think. And I've got a coffee-table smarter than Roy. ;)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 13, 2010, 12:29:41 PM
Clem,

Your point about Johnson not being able to prove a point by being injured is valid. But it will also give him time to consider if he has performed as well as he could. He doesn't need telling he's underperformed. He'll know it if he's intelligent which I think he is. I've long been a fan of Kelly at RB with Johnson moved forward to RW.

But it's vital that managers show who's the boss in this age of pampered ego-obsessed millionaires. They will be respected by intelligent players. Once players boss the dressing room it leads to disaster.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 13, 2010, 12:36:59 PM
I agree with you ASI.  You are right about the Kelly/Johnson thing but Roy doesn't see it does  he?  Everybody is mentioning it except the manager.  He has never, to my knowledge, even spoke about it as an option available to him. I think it is dumb to rub your players up the wrong way (or risk doing so) if you're not in a strong position yourself. If Roy criticises Glen, then why shouldn't Glen think to himself that he is not getting due respect from a clueless manager promoted beyond his abilities? Can we afford risking losing England's right-back at the moment? Look at the names lining up for him - City; United; Inter; Juve. He isn't suddenly a mug and I don't really see how public criticism is going to encourage him to ignore the advances of clubs in better positions than we are right now.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 13, 2010, 01:18:52 PM
I think its fair to tell a player that he needs to up his game. When you do it publicly you risk humiliating the player and as Tes points out Roy hasnt afforded Glen the opportunity to defend himself on the pitch because hes injured.

Also the big no no for me here is publicly criticising one player when at the same time publicly getting behind another whose form is probably even more questionable and hes not injured, hes not playing because of his form is woeful .

For instance lets say both Torres and Gerrard were under performing. Neither players contribution was sufficient to the team. Do you think Gerrard would be happy if he was publicly condemned while at the same time the manager defended / praised Torres.

Firstly why does Roy feels he owes Poulsen to publicly back him and secondly what has Glen done in the short time Roys been here to deserve been called out while injured? Surely how he played under Rafa didnt matter. Dont get me wrong I thinks Johnsons performances have been woeful but I just dont see the sense in the very differing treatment Roy is affording both players.

You could argue that Poulsen is new to the club and country whereas Johnson is not but you could equally argue that Johnson is new to Roy and his tactics where Poulsen is not.

I just think that Roys possibly gone and sealed Johnsons exit when he hasnt even tested the idea of him playing further up the field. Chances are we will have to sell him at half what we bought him for and the first thing someone like Harry Redknapp would probably do is put him straight into midfield.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 13, 2010, 02:33:03 PM
I agree with you ASI.  You are right about the Kelly/Johnson thing but Roy doesn't see it does  he?  Everybody is mentioning it except the manager.  He has never, to my knowledge, even spoke about it as an option available to him.
I haven't heard him mention it but also, no interviewer has either. Aren't they meant to ask these questions?

Quote
I think it is dumb to rub your players up the wrong way (or risk doing so) if you're not in a strong position yourself. If Roy criticises Glen, then why shouldn't Glen think to himself that he is not getting due respect from a clueless manager promoted beyond his abilities?
Hodgson isn't in a weak position. The owners are in no position to change him at the moment. And he's just beaten Chelsea so why shouldn't he consider his position to be stronger? And none of us know what has been said privately. He has probably been castigated privately. 'Clueless'? It's what the players think that's important, not ours.

Quote
Can we afford risking losing England's right-back at the moment? Look at the names lining up for him - City; United; Inter; Juve. He isn't suddenly a mug and I don't really see how public criticism is going to encourage him to ignore the advances of clubs in better positions than we are right now.
His performances this season have hardly helped his case. And until he publicly expesses a desire to leave there's no point discussing who might be interested.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 13, 2010, 02:51:11 PM
I haven't heard him mention it but also, no interviewer has either. Aren't they meant to ask these questions?
Hodgson isn't in a weak position. The owners are in no position to change him at the moment. And he's just beaten Chelsea so why shouldn't he consider his position to be stronger? And none of us know what has been said privately. He has probably been castigated privately. 'Clueless'? It's what the players think that's important, not ours.
His performances this season have hardly helped his case. And until he publicly expesses a desire to leave there's no point discussing who might be interested.

That's the point I am making I think.  Once you put your dirty washing out there then you have to take the consequences and these teams are then entitled to speculate, as is the press. Its a needless invitation by Roy and, as Juan said about the discrepancy with his treatment of Poulsen, seems an unnecessarily divisive act. If he has been castigated privately, why do so again publicly? That wouldn't make sense and would aggravate the player. To be fair ASI, Hodgson's win over Chelsea has put him in a stronger position, but this is because beforehand it was barely tenable. It was a good win and I was happy to see it - but even then we sat far too deep on a lead and we clung on.The man just isn't cut out to be a Liverpool manager.  We paying customers surely have a right to speak our minds? That is why we are on this forum isn't it? We weren't discussing who might be interested, but the names the media is now associating with our right-back because of our manager. Brilliant.  Wasn't disastrous man-management supposed to be Rafa's era? The only Liverpool player to come out in vocal support of the club during the World Cup was Dan Agger - where is that voice when we need it, Roy?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 13, 2010, 03:11:09 PM
That's the point I am making I think.  Once you put your dirty washing out there then you have to take the consequences and these teams are then entitled to speculate, as is the press. Its a needless invitation by Roy and, as Juan said about the discrepancy with his treatment of Poulsen, seems an unnecessarily divisive act. If he has been castigated privately, why do so again publicly? That wouldn't make sense and would aggravate the player.
I don't equate publicly criticising a player to 'putting your dirty washing out there'. And the press will speculate about anything if they so choose. Look at the Reina thing for how badly they get it wrong. When Gerrard was criticised was it sending out a message that he's available? No, of course not. Unless there are further developments I don't expect to see Johnson leave in Jan.

The comparison with Poulson is not the same. One is a proven international whose performance has dropped to unacceptable levels.  The other is a foreigner unfamiliar with our league and of less ability. To criticise him publicly would be to finish his career at LFC. That would be stupid after so few games.
Quote
To be fair ASI, Hodgson's win over Chelsea has put him in a stronger position, but this is because beforehand it was barely tenable. It was a good win and I was happy to see it - but even then we sat far too deep on a lead and we clung on.The man just isn't cut out to be a Liverpool manager.
The players sat deep naturally, not because of any managerial decision. I've just watched Villa do the same after leading 2-0 and almost pay the price. It's not just us who do it and we did it under other managers. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a LFC quality manager but he isn't going to be changed because of what we say so let's just live with it. The players performances are more important.

Quote
We paying customers surely have a right to speak our minds? That is why we are on this forum isn't it?
Of course. But I've seen very little credit given to him for a 4-game unbeaten run and that doesn't seem fair.

Quote
We weren't discussing who might be interested, but the names the media is now associating with our right-back because of our manager. Brilliant.  Wasn't disastrous man-management supposed to be Rafa's era? The only Liverpool player to come out in vocal support of the club during the World Cup was Dan Agger - where is that voice when we need it, Roy?
I have no respect for most of the media so I don't pay any attention to what they say. Hodgson is doing a difficult job and he's not the political animal Rafa is. I'll keep an open mind until he makes stupid substitutions and so far he hasn't.
Most players at the WC had more important things on their mind so I don't think that means anything.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 13, 2010, 04:28:21 PM
Hi ASI,

Okay, we have different opinions about dirty washing - my point being, why criticise a player publicly at all?  Roy did it at the same time as he praised another player. My point is that such action engenders a spirit of divisiveness in the squad - that can never be a good thing.  The Liverpool Way, as we all know, includes keeping dignified before the public. Any castigations should have been done behind closed doors - period.

We sat back again against Wigan, too.  It has happened at many games I've seen this season - too often to be anything other than a nasty combination of a lack of confidence in the players, and a defensive-minded approach from their coach.  Fulham were the same last season - hence the amount of players who have said their style has changed under Hughes, with the team pressing much higher up the pitch. Look at Roy's career managerial record  when it comes to away wins, there is a pattern revealing (in my opinion only) a negative, defensive mindset. 

lets not get carried away with this miraculous rebirth of our team.  As a lifelong fan it gives me a great thrill to see us avoiding defeat, but we really should be picking up those pints not doing cartwheels in gratitude.  Since when has four games unbeaten been a 'run' at Liverpool football club? since now, this season, since Roy.

I have liked a lot of his substitutions this season - they have made sense to me more often than some of Rafa's did last term.  They are sometimes unnecessarily negative, but I will let that ride.

I suspect one of the reasons you are rightly suspicious of the media is their palpable bias against the team you love (and its supporters).  Roy should, as our manager, therefore also be aware that actions such as publicly criticising players hands the media a stick to beat us with?

For me at least, nothing is more important than LFC - least of all the World Cup.  In the wilderness summer we have just, and only just, survived, an optimistic word of defiance and unity was very welcome. Shame on the players who looked on and said nothing.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 13, 2010, 06:18:42 PM
Hi ASI,

Okay, we have different opinions about dirty washing - my point being, why criticise a player publicly at all?  Roy did it at the same time as he praised another player. My point is that such action engenders a spirit of divisiveness in the squad - that can never be a good thing.  The Liverpool Way, as we all know, includes keeping dignified before the public. Any castigations should have been done behind closed doors - period.

Hi Clem,
If I'm honest Clem I really don't know why they do it. All I'm saying is that to criticise Roy when Rafa also did it seems unfair. None of us knows what goes on behind closed doors so there are probably reasons we'll never know. Don't you think the 'Liverpool way' died some time ago? Probably when David Moores sold the club.

Quote
We sat back again against Wigan, too.  It has happened at many games I've seen this season - too often to be anything other than a nasty combination of a lack of confidence in the players, and a defensive-minded approach from their coach.  Fulham were the same last season - hence the amount of players who have said their style has changed under Hughes, with the team pressing much higher up the pitch. Look at Roy's career managerial record  when it comes to away wins, there is a pattern revealing (in my opinion only) a negative, defensive mindset.
Yes, it happens and I don't like it. But what can you do? If it makes you feel better getting it off your chest then fine but I'd rather focus on the positives. It might be head-in-sand but otherwise you can get dragged down emotionally and after the last few months I've had enough of that to last a lifetime.

Quote
lets not get carried away with this miraculous rebirth of our team.  As a lifelong fan it gives me a great thrill to see us avoiding defeat, but we really should be picking up those pints not doing cartwheels in gratitude.  Since when has four games unbeaten been a 'run' at Liverpool football club? since now, this season, since Roy.
I agree and I've supported them since the 60s although I don't attend games sadly. But I pay Sky so perhaps I do.  :)

Quote
I have liked a lot of his substitutions this season - they have made sense to me more often than some of Rafa's did last term.  They are sometimes unnecessarily negative, but I will let that ride.
That's my point. I can remember screaming at some of Rafa's decisions but there didn't seem to be the same criticism levelled at him as there is now at Roy. At least now we have owners who will make decisions in the best interests of the club but they need time.

Quote
I suspect one of the reasons you are rightly suspicious of the media is their palpable bias against the team you love (and its supporters).  Roy should, as our manager, therefore also be aware that actions such as publicly criticising players hands the media a stick to beat us with?
Some of the media - not all of it. Rory Smith in the Telegraph speaks sense as does Henry Winter and I thought Maddock was okay in the Mirror until his Reina story the other day. I'm not blind to the team's performances. I will criticise them when I feel it's due. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree over public criticisms.

Quote
For me at least, nothing is more important than LFC - least of all the World Cup.  In the wilderness summer we have just, and only just, survived, an optimistic word of defiance and unity was very welcome. Shame on the players who looked on and said nothing.
Club is important but so is my country's team. And given the pressure the players are under during the WC I don't blame them for not commenting on club affairs.

Anyway, I see we're still 0-0 at Stoke despite not playing very well in the first 30 mins. Perhaps things will go better in the second half.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 13, 2010, 06:35:35 PM
ASI - Yeah, that getting dragged down emotionally thing has me drained out too.  You are more optimistic than I am at the moment, but it might be that i am biased because I cannot really see any  plan or development in how Roy has the team playing. I'm a big rafa fan too. I really hope he turns it round though - any scruffy scrappy result is okay (look at how we did it in the first 10-15 games of season before last- and it was brilliant!).

I don't think managers should slate players in the press - Paisley etc never did it. To be fair to them Fergie and Wenger don't either. Its the little things like this and his press conferences in general, together with lack of cohesion and craft in his tactics and selections, that have so many reds fans doubting Roy.  Never heard anything like it before - the Kop basically chanting 'You don't know what you're doing' when singing for Kenny a few weeks ago.  if we draw again today thats two points from Wigan and Stoke, and grateful for them. It just isn't good enough. Respect for support from the sixties by the way!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2010, 06:48:53 PM
when we employed Roy, I had no great expectations re his managerial abilities.

BUT, I did think he would steady the ship and would be more versed in the Liverpool way (than say Rafa was). 

The soundbites from him, on short match of the day interviews after Fulham games, sounded really good.  Roy sounded concise, intelligent and very fairminded. 

But since he has been at Anfield, it is easier to study him in more detail.  And wow, Roy doesn't shut his trap.  Endless words, that cover all the angles on a topic (ala O'Leary or Houllier) and are thus meaningless.

I had thought he would keep his counsel, ala the Liverpool way.  He would not wash our laundry in public.  But boy how wrong was I. 

This latest rant (we seem to get a rant every other day or two) about Johnston, may be totally accurate.....but fig-leaf, what does it do for the relationship with the lad, and also what impact does it not have on his resale value.

Imagine what the media would have said about Rafa, if he had made all these daily rants.  They would be having a field day.

It's time for changes at Anfield  (Stoke have just scored).



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 13, 2010, 08:22:49 PM
Oh I'm so excited to hear his post match interview. 

Whatcha y'all reckon his excuses will be.  M'mm, well it can't be the manager cos he's got over 30 years experience in management and you don't last that long in football without being good hey!  Err what else could it be.  Ah all the players bar his signings are shine-a-light.  Yes, that one will do nicely.  I can keep playing that record again and again and no one will notice.  Oh sugar, didn't I mention something about judging me after 10 games.  Oh bollox, let's hope everyone forgets that!

Woy Out!

You were never wanted......Get that through yer thick skull man!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 13, 2010, 08:31:38 PM
ASI - Yeah, that getting dragged down emotionally thing has me drained out too.  You are more optimistic than I am at the moment, but it might be that i am biased because I cannot really see any  plan or development in how Roy has the team playing. I'm a big rafa fan too. I really hope he turns it round though - any scruffy scrappy result is okay (look at how we did it in the first 10-15 games of season before last- and it was brilliant!).
Well Clem, I'm not optimistic after tonight's result. By all accounts it was a dreadful performance. I really don't know how you can go from beatign Chelsea 6 days go to that rubbish. I don't think watching MoTD will help either. But it was telling that the away fans were chanting "Dalglish" after the second goal went in. Don't know if the players were boo'd off after the game.

What is frustrating is that Manure are not playing well, City are dire, Spurs are inconsistent and only Chelsea look like winning the league and we beat them!!! If the board were to replace Roy with Kenny it could help us keep in touch with 4th which isn't that far away. But leaving Roy there for a few more weeks could kill any chance of CL football next season and that brings its own dangers re Torres and co.

Quote
Respect for support from the sixties by the way!
Cheers. I stood in the Kop late 70s and early 80s. Great times but we still lost to Manure!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 08:35:18 PM
Oh sugar, didn't I mention something about judging me after 10 games.  Oh bollox, let's hope everyone forgets that!

Lucky for Roy that the media have. Conveniently?

It's up there alongside Rafa's guarantee of fourth place.

When was the last time we had a minus goal difference more than a third into the league season?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 09:11:27 PM
when we employed Roy, I had no great expectations re his managerial abilities.

It's akin to taking someone, who has spent all their working life since leaving school at 16 working behind the counter in the local corner shop, and appointing them as a regional manager of Tesco.

Dude, from what we saw of Hodgson previously I agree with you on every point. The whole way he's conducted himself has been a huge departure from previous form. Maybe the pressure's getting to him. If it is, you really have to question if he had the first idea what he was getting himself into when he took the job. And if he didn't, then why not?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2010, 09:19:57 PM
It's akin to taking someone, who has spent all their working life since leaving school at 16 working behind the counter in the local corner shop, and appointing them as a regional manager of Tesco.

Dude, from what we saw of Hodgson previously I agree with you on every point. The whole way he's conducted himself has been a huge departure from previous form. Maybe the pressure's getting to him. If it is, you really have to question if he had the first idea what he was getting himself into when he took the job. And if he didn't, then why not?

but I now wonder if it is a huge departure, Tes.

all we got was a 30 second snippet on a saturday night highlights show.

perhaps Fulham supporters, and the local newspaper in that part of London, could tell a different story.

Roy's rants in these first three months, are the rants of someone who is in their final 3 months of employment at anfield.  I imagine, like you, that the huge pressure is causing much of it.  But didn't he expect this level of pressure?  What is there about the job that he didn't expect.

But John Henry is someone who I expect won't sit around and idly accept this level of performance. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 09:38:35 PM
What is there about the job that he didn't expect.

In a way, finishing seventh brought with it even more pressure than if we had finished in the top four. He seems genuinely shocked by the level of scrutiny and by the fact that we should be looking to challenge for a top four spot as opposed to bobbing about in mid-table, relatively safe from any danger of being sucked into a relegation battle.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2010, 09:43:30 PM
In a way, finishing seventh brought with it even more pressure than if we had finished in the top four. He seems genuinely shocked by the level of scrutiny and by the fact that we should be looking to challenge for a top four spot as opposed to bobbing about in mid-table, relatively safe from any danger of being sucked into a relegation battle.

yes, and you can even tell from his demeanour and the things he says, that he is not a winner.

he is a defeatist, an apologist.

he has lost each fight, before it even gets started.

excuses, excuses, excuses.

I don't think Roy could win a one horse race.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 13, 2010, 09:57:54 PM
Its finally about time that Rafa is fired and this team of his is broken up.

Its just not fair that Roy has to keep selecting Rafa's flips and flops and if we had more Roy signings like Konchesky we could turn these away loses into draws in no time.



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on November 13, 2010, 10:03:06 PM
Its finally about time that Rafa is fired and this team of his is broken up.

Its just not fair that Roy has to keep selecting Rafa's flips and flops and if we had more Roy signings like Konchesky we could turn these away loses into draws in no time.

Yeah, because N'Gog, Babel, Maxi and Lucas is sooo good. Don't you realise it doesn't matter what manager comes in, the material just isn't good enough to build a strong side. Too many mediocre player's been signed for too long time. THAT is the problem and I think it's just as well you lot realise it'll take years to get this right. If it was as easy as you make it out to be...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 13, 2010, 10:18:57 PM
Yeah, because N'Gog, Babel, Maxi and Lucas is sooo good. Don't you realise it doesn't matter what manager comes in, the material just isn't good enough to build a strong side. Too many mediocre player's been signed for too long time. THAT is the problem and I think it's just as well you lot realise it'll take years to get this right. If it was as easy as you make it out to be...

Martin I just read your post in the other thread. You exclude Roy from blame and basically suggest that the players on the pitch are at fault. However you also suggest that some players are played out of position and some like Konchesky arent good enough. I hate to break this to you but players being played out of position and the purchase of Konchesky are both Roys fault.

You also say Stoke are a crap team. Again thats not true. I am actually very impressed by what Tony Pullis has achieved there.

You need to stop believing that the way we are playing this season is down to Rafa. Roy inherited a team with Reina, Gerrard and Torres. Most clubs in Europe would love to be able to name those 3 in their team each week. If Roy cant get the best out of them along with what else hes got thats his issue, nothing to do with Rafa. To suggest otherwise is a cop out and an attempt to absolve Roy of any blame. Its sounds like you are in denial with regard Roys performance as manager to date
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on November 13, 2010, 10:31:03 PM
Then why couldn't Rafa get the best out of them last season? It's a bit rich to criticise Roy after having signed 3 players while Rafa spent 6 years on hundreds of millions on signing some 80 players of which a mere handful turned out good signings.

Other than that, I never said Roy didn't play any part in tonites pathetic performance. Just because I don't screm "sack him" as soon as we don't win doesn't mean I think he's above criticism. But tonite the defeat was very much down to the lack of attitude and quality among the players. I don't think we strung more than 4 passes together more than a couple of times. Is it Roy's fault Kuijt time and again failt to deliver a 3 metre pass, is it Roy's fault that Torres hoof it sideways across the field to a throw in instead of producing anything with 5 minutes to go. The number of unforced errors and basic mistakes was unbelieveable really. No manager in the world can affect this from the side line. Fact of the matter is we have a pisspoor squad and I don't think you can blame Roy for that as he never got the time nor funds to chance it. I'd much rather take a British player willing to run like Etheringham (who's a crap player really) than a flashy and posh Italian, Spaniard of Frenchman. No manager would do better with this crap.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 10:42:00 PM
So out of the starting 11 all 11 players have been capped by their respective countries. Some are well into double figures, whilst others even have amassed more than 50.  Countries like Brazil, Spain, Holland, Argentina and Portugal. I realise there's also Greece (former European Champions), Slovakia and England in there.

So are you saying the all those international managers were also mistaken when they handed out those caps? Quite a few repeat mistakes amongst the list.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Martinmarx on November 13, 2010, 10:56:47 PM
So out of the starting 11 all 11 players have been capped by their respective countries. Some are well into double figures, whilst others even have amassed more than 50.  Countries like Brazil, Spain, Holland, Argentina and Portugal. I realise there's also Greece (former European Champions), Slovakia and England in there.

So are you saying the all those international managers were also mistaken when they handed out those caps? Quite a few repeat mistakes amongst the list.

You forgot, "most in peripheral roles". Being an international is no guarantee you're a good enough player. In any case some players are better playing for their countries (Klose and Podolski) than their clubs, while others are brillitant at their clubs but never makes the difference for their national team (Ronaldo).

I'm not saying Roy is the man to lead this club to glory (and I never did), I just happen to think that for the last 12 years this club has been run by managers who never understood what it takes to build a challenging squad despite being handed hundreds on hundreds of millions to achieve that feat. Now, the problem with this is that it'll take a long time for this club to establish an identity, a spirit to base future challenges on. So, in a way, it's a two step process. First step is about founding an identity/spirit, then secondly challenge for honors. I think Roy may be a good choice for the first step. In any case the new identity this club so desperately need cannot be built with the current squad.

Some will always be blinded by that CL campaing refusing to realise Rafa, just like GH, actually went on decline after initial cup successes. It's not their fault they never understood what the English game is all about.

Tes, we're at least 5 years from challenging so screaming and kicking after Roy's removal will do little to change this fact. We need to focus on other things than winning titles. We pushed the inevitable ahead for us for too long, it's time to face the reality - we lost our identity in the early 90's and until we establish it we will continue to be found wanting. It wasn't any better under Rafa the last 3 seasons. We weren't any better the 08/09 season. We were as dull, lacklustre, disjointed what have you.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 13, 2010, 11:10:15 PM
Martin the money issue is misleading. Rafa recouped an incredible amount on players and his net spending was never more than 20 million per season - far less than his rivals (and some teams considered not 'big four').  In the last four windows he was given no money to spend at all. None. He had to sell to raise funds. And he still finished above Chelsea and Abramovich's billions. Thats the measure of a great manager. Roy has inherited some dross players - but that is the fault of the G & H regime and the marketplace rafa was forced to shop at (and admittedly some mistakes by rafa).  The point about Hodgson's tenure is not his signings - the good and the bad- or his inherited squad - likewise- it s about how he selects, manages and forms a team with tactics and organisation on any given match day.  He asked to be judged on this. And look at this forum. He has been.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2010, 11:24:56 PM
The point about Hodgson's tenure is not his signings - the good and the bad- or his inherited squad - likewise- it s about how he selects, manages and forms a team with tactics and organisation on any given match day. 

exactly.  Even if we had a rubbish squad, one would at least expect to see good organisation.....and some semblence of tactics.  Under Roy, we have been all at sea.

pi.ss up and brewery spring to mind.


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 13, 2010, 11:49:48 PM
You forgot, "most in peripheral roles". Being an international is no guarantee you're a good enough player. In any case some players are better playing for their countries (Klose and Podolski) than their clubs, while others are brillitant at their clubs but never makes the difference for their national team (Ronaldo).

I'm not saying Roy is the man to lead this club to glory (and I never did), I just happen to think that for the last 12 years this club has been run by managers who never understood what it takes to build a challenging squad despite being handed hundreds on hundreds of millions to achieve that feat. Now, the problem with this is that it'll take a long time for this club to establish an identity, a spirit to base future challenges on. So, in a way, it's a two step process. First step is about founding an identity/spirit, then secondly challenge for honors. I think Roy may be a good choice for the first step. In any case the new identity this club so desperately need cannot be built with the current squad.

Some will always be blinded by that CL campaing refusing to realise Rafa, just like GH, actually went on decline after initial cup successes. It's not their fault they never understood what the English game is all about.

Tes, we're at least 5 years from challenging so screaming and kicking after Roy's removal will do little to change this fact. We need to focus on other things than winning titles. We pushed the inevitable ahead for us for too long, it's time to face the reality - we lost our identity in the early 90's and until we establish it we will continue to be found wanting. It wasn't any better under Rafa the last 3 seasons. We weren't any better the 08/09 season. We were as dull, lacklustre, disjointed what have you.

Martin, nobody (at least not worth taking notice of) is talking about challenging, nevermind winning the Premier League title. Finishing second was a massive overachievement, the seasons before and season after proved that. Getting back into the top four, be it on goal difference on the last day of the season is the only target we can be even thinking about currently.
We made the point a lot during the '08/'09 season that we had to learn how to be challengers. Be up there constantly for several seasons, inching closer, establishing ourselves as credible challengers before we could realistically talk about taking that final step and finishing the season on top. Being on top at points during the season, only to finish the season below that position, is all part of that learning process.

You make good points, all of which have previously been discussed during previous seasons. I simply disagree with you that Roy is the man for anything at this club. He's never been at any club of worth long enough to build or forge anything. He's a jobbing football manager. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on November 14, 2010, 12:11:10 AM
I was afraid that this was going to happen, the fans made a call on Hodgson (can't remember was it post Everton, obviously a lot had made up their mind well before that!) pretty much as soon as the takeover went through he was surplus to requirements in many people's eyes. We got the mini revival, looked better than it actually was only because things were so bad. & now this! >:( which was always a possibility....

What bothers me is that our identity is being eroded under Hodgson, I mean Liverpool under him stands for nothing IMO. It's difficult to know where we are going (are the problems sorted out now, does anyone know what the problems are/were?) and I fear this is set to continue. Other lesser teams just seem to get on with the business of winning football games, I mean Villa are a point ahead of us and lost their manager a week before the start of the season.  >:(

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 14, 2010, 12:26:45 AM
What bothers me is that our identity is being eroded under Hodgson, I mean Liverpool under him stands for nothing IMO. It's difficult to know where we are going (are the problems sorted out now, does anyone know what the problems are/were?)

this is my fear too, Ed.

Liverpool were always a special club...........we had an aura.

Now, it seems to have gone.  We are turning into a Spurs or a Newcastle (if we aren't careful).

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 14, 2010, 12:48:36 AM
Lucky you only have to play Stoke twice in a season hey Woy..lol

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/9187402.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/9187402.stm)

ps.  Why does he constantly poke his finger in his face.  Every interview he does the same thing....hilarious!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 14, 2010, 12:49:07 AM
I just dont understand why Rafa gets brought up so much. Hes no longer our manager yet he still gets blamed for everything at the club.

And of course his name is never mentioned when we win. Did he get credit for Torres or his two goals against Chelsea, No, so why should he take the blame from Roy when we fall to inept defeats like today.

Its Roys team when we win, its Rafa's when we lose, Roy cant lose.

Likewise Houlliers team won the European cup in 05. Give me a break.

It is a common fact that you do need a decent level of investment in the premier league to compete. But I would also expect a top manager to be able to come to a club  and before being handed significant investment organise / galvanise a squad of international footballers, 3 world class, to perform to a standard far better than what we have seen at Man City, Birmingham, Man Utd, Northampton, Sunderland, Blackpool, Everton, Napoli, Wigan and Stoke. Even seeing the list of teams we've lost or played horribly against is embarrassing.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 14, 2010, 01:20:18 AM
I have to say as a person I feel sorry for Roy Hodgson. Watching him on the sideline today he had the cut of a lonely figure that knew probably nearly every Liverpool fan watching the game either at the ground or on tv was cursing him, his team selection, his tactics or his inability to make this team play.

I just wish this Liverpool story could work out for Roy. He left a very good job at Fulham where he really seemed to find his level, he was worshiped by the fans and expectations were moderate. At Liverpool you get the sense that things are alot different than he expected. The pressure, the expectation, the media are all far greater than he seems to be able to deal with. Its basically just the wrong man for the wrong club. And I dont like hearing fans chanting for Dalglish as much as I would have him as manager if it meant Roy would step aside. Roy still deserves better than that.

At the end of the day, as much as I want him out I guess I realise hes only human and the way Liverpool are playing and the way the fans are reacting must hurt Roy to the core. Hes a nice man thats bitten off more than he can chew. But now its up to Henry and the new Liverpool board to put a stop to this, for the good and health of Roy Hodgson as well as the good of the club itself. Roys actually alot like Audley Harrison. Both nice guys, checkered careers that often promised more than they delivered. And just when both thought their biggest days were behind them each got an unexpected shot at the top. As Harrison found out against Haye tonight hes probably fought just one fight too many, his best days are behind him and its time to bow out graciously with his head held high. Roy might not be finished in football management but today's loss to Stoke was his one fight too far and its finally come to the time where he needs to walk graciously or be pushed.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 14, 2010, 02:08:28 AM
So what are we predicting/fearing for the rest of Black November - West Ham home, Spurs away.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ed on November 14, 2010, 02:23:36 AM
this is my fear too, Ed.

Liverpool were always a special club...........we had an aura.

Now, it seems to have gone.  We are turning into a Spurs or a Newcastle (if we aren't careful).

Agreed Dude, and I wouldn't mind being dragged down to this humiliating level if I thought that there was a way back to the top under his stewardship, but I can't see that happening. As we've all said a million times Fulham was a club out of the spot light that only got noticed when they did something positive like beat United, they could lose the next 3 and it wouldn't register....Hodgson's entire psyche must be built on this cycle of overachieve, get praise, fail, lie low hope nobody notices....how he could possibly transform himself (not even mentioning the squad) to the Liverpool mentality is difficult to comprehend.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on November 14, 2010, 08:38:13 AM
So what are we predicting/fearing for the rest of Black November - West Ham home, Spurs away.

Barticus channels the spirit of Hodgson....ohmmmm.
'Tricky game as West Ham have just come out of a decent wesult against Blackpool (we lost to them wemember) and the pwessure will be on us at home, we might scrape a 1-0 if the gods are with us'
'As for Spurs, well it's away so enough said, i'll take a dwaw wight now, because let's face it, we're not going to play that attacking football milarky, that style of play might be all vewy well for fancy dan teams like Liverpool, but not for my team of Fulh...oh wait a sec'....
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 14, 2010, 08:43:36 AM
Agreed Dude, and I wouldn't mind being dragged down to this humiliating level if I thought that there was a way back to the top under his stewardship, but I can't see that happening.

exactly, Ed.

we have been under some pressure since the roy evans era.  The fear of losing touch, with the top teams, has been there for nearly 20 years.

our fears, back then, were not based on fact.

Now, however, our fears are very very real.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 14, 2010, 09:39:12 AM
His only real history of being in a similar situation to ours is when he joined Blackburn Rovers two seasons after they'd won the league under Dalglish. They'd finished seventh the season after the title win under Ray Harford and then 14th under caretaker Tony Parkes.

He got them to sixth in his first season but then got sacked in the December of his second season.

People talk about foreign managers 'not understanding' the Premier League and what it takes to be successful.

Roy's record:

1997/98 – Blackburn Rovers - 5 Away wins – Finished 6th
1998/99 – Blackburn Rovers – 0 Away wins – Sacked when 20th in December
2007/08 – Fulham – 3 Away wins – Finished 17th - Joined in the December
2008/09 – Fulham – 3 Away wins – Finished 7th
2009/10 – Fulham – 1 Away win – Finished 12th
2010/11 – Liverpool – 1 Away win – Currently 11th - 5/21 points
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 14, 2010, 09:50:10 AM
fascinating data, Tes (thanks for posting it).

When looking at managers, I have always looked for balance (between defence and offence).  THAT is the key to being a top manager.

Patently, Roy is much too negative.  And this is very obvious on his travels.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 15, 2010, 01:38:58 PM
Great post Tes. 

Just out of curiosity would you be able to get Rafa's/GH's/Roy Evans's stats as well?  Be interesting to see what the comparison is between the managers we've had.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on November 15, 2010, 02:34:22 PM
I havent moved to the 'dark side' and defending roy, but Rafa was also very negative away from home. Lets not forget Wigan away last year and numerous other games that were just as depressing. We need a manager that lets our team loose. Make teams worry about us rather than us petrified of them. Somewhere hidden in our current squad is a team that isnt that bad
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 15, 2010, 04:01:35 PM
Roy is now having a laugh. Hes just gone and moved the goalposts yet again.

Its no longer judge me after 10 games, Roys looking for an extension to that view and wants to be judged after 38 to 55 games.

I dont think I have ever heard a manager to change their outlook on the season so much. Why does he bother. Its gone from dont rule us out of a title challenge to look at what Benitez left theres no way we will challenge. There was too-ing and fro-ing then for a month or two where Roy couldnt decide what we were going to do in the season but after chelsea he was back to dont rule us out of some kind of challenge and now we are back to this. Hes an embarrassment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/15/roy-hodgson-liverpool

Roy Hodgson has called on his Liverpool players to resist "doubting what we are doing" following Saturday's 2-0 defeat to Stoke City. The Anfield club had recovered well in recent weeks after a slow start to the season but came unstuck once again over the weekend, with the loss at the Britannia Stadium their fifth in the Premier League already.

"I don't see why it [the defeat] should give us enormous reason to doubt what we are doing or doubt what we are capable of doing," Hodgson told the club's official website. "I don't expect this result to dent confidence any more than any bad result does or any end to a good run dents your confidence. We are talking about two or three games in a season. I find it hard to have to explain that every time you win a game things are flying forward and when you get a bad result they are flying backwards.

"I'm a 38-to-55-game-a-season man and I make my judgment over that period. I don't get euphoric when we play well against Chelsea and I certainly won't become anything other than realistic and determined to move on to the next step when we lose a game. The conclusions that are being attempted to be drawn are too big conclusions."

The international break will frustrate Hodgson's bid to work with his players over the next few days, but he remains confident he will get it right: "All you can do is work, but unfortunately we won't have a lot of chance to work as some players are going away with their national team. The longer we work together the more the players become attuned to what we want from them." Liverpool's next game is at home to West Ham this Saturday.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 15, 2010, 04:48:00 PM
Liverpool's next game is at home to West Ham this Saturday.

I suspect that Roy, at this moment in time, is only one bad result away from the sack.

West Ham, stuck to the bottom of the table, with no wins from their away games to date, could be that team.

Even if we draw or scrape a win, it's gonna be very hard for Roy.

The Chelsea result, which was out of the blue (forgive the pun), saved his skin just a little longer.  But time is fast running out.


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 15, 2010, 05:01:35 PM
I havent moved to the 'dark side' and defending roy, but Rafa was also very negative away from home. Lets not forget Wigan away last year and numerous other games that were just as depressing. We need a manager that lets our team loose. Make teams worry about us rather than us petrified of them. Somewhere hidden in our current squad is a team that isnt that bad

Great post, totally agree. If we attacked teams we would win more than we would lose in this league. Man U have always had that philosophy under ferguson and it has made teams back-off, give them respect etc - helping them attack even more!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 15, 2010, 07:52:46 PM
Goog God Almighty, Christ on a bike- look at this stat from the Mail:


"105 away league games since 1980 with Bristol City, Blackburn, Fulham and Liverpool he has won only 13 times and managed just 35 draws"

with 3 pts per win thats 74 pts from a possible 315. omg.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 15, 2010, 08:29:37 PM
We need a manager that lets our team loose. Make teams worry about us rather than us petrified of them.

I'd agree, if we had a decent defence/midfield.

but with our present lot, if we threw the kitchen sink at the opposition, we'd get hammered by a lot of teams.

with carra, konchenksy, skitrail, and the big greek lad......and no decent holding midfielder to cover that poor defence, we'd get mauled.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 15, 2010, 08:32:02 PM
Goog God Almighty, Christ on a bike- look at this stat from the Mail:


"105 away league games since 1980 with Bristol City, Blackburn, Fulham and Liverpool he has won only 13 times and managed just 35 draws"

with 3 pts per win thats 74 pts from a possible 315. omg.

even worse if you look at the past 12 years......roy has won only eight times away from home in the premiership.

scary.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 15, 2010, 09:03:44 PM
Goog God Almighty, Christ on a bike- look at this stat from the Mail:


"105 away league games since 1980 with Bristol City, Blackburn, Fulham and Liverpool he has won only 13 times and managed just 35 draws"

with 3 pts per win thats 74 pts from a possible 315. omg.

Blimey!  This information must twittered to John W Henry immediately.  Snarler Gurdeep is on the case  8)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 15, 2010, 09:10:30 PM
Tweeted!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 15, 2010, 11:18:03 PM
http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/11/roys-hodgsons-managerial-record/ (http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/11/roys-hodgsons-managerial-record/)

Very depressing viewing.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 15, 2010, 11:31:00 PM
http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/11/roys-hodgsons-managerial-record/ (http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/11/roys-hodgsons-managerial-record/)

Very depressing viewing.

Worse than Graham Souness, to be honest it doesn't surprise me. I'm still flabbergasted that people actually wanted him to become our manager. At no point in his career did he ever look remotely up to it.

Hopefully John Henry keeps reading Tomkins articles because Tomkins tends to speak Henrys language with his use of numbers.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 15, 2010, 11:51:11 PM
Well i don't know what to make of this - why was he appointed in the first place (as in, what was the 'rationale') and did Kenny Dalglish recommend him after Purslow turned him down? This is an indictment of the man and confirmation of everything we feared - but Henry is standing behind him because he just isn't getting the right information. I think the only ay henry is going to realise what a mediocre manager we have is for the entire Kop to start singing for kenny. If we lose, or even draw, then it will be about 6 45 pm this Saturday. Will he ever hear us?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 15, 2010, 11:54:13 PM
Worse than Graham Souness, to be honest it doesn't surprise me. I'm still flabbergasted that people actually wanted him to become our manager. At no point in his career did he ever look remotely up to it.

Hopefully John Henry keeps reading Tomkins articles because Tomkins tends to speak Henrys language with his use of numbers.

TBH Juan I find it hard to believe that any liverpool fan wanted to see Roy take charge.

I remember watching the World Cup and seeing Woy on the beeb.  Gary Linekar was asking Woy about the Liverpool vacancy.  Woy was being very candid and not giving anything away. 
Just thought of him managing liverpool had my stomach churning!

I really can't see how NESV can standby him any longer.  It's pretty obvious that the majority of supporter want him out.  His position is becoming untenable day by day imho.  Plus his interviews don't help him much either.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 16, 2010, 12:02:16 AM
Well i don't know what to make of this - why was he appointed in the first place (as in, what was the 'rationale') and did Kenny Dalglish recommend him after Purslow turned him down? This is an indictment of the man and confirmation of everything we feared - but Henry is standing behind him because he just isn't getting the right information. I think the only ay henry is going to realise what a mediocre manager we have is for the entire Kop to start singing for kenny. If we lose, or even draw, then it will be about 6 45 pm this Saturday. Will he ever hear us?

Keep the faith Clem.  2 down 1 to go!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on November 16, 2010, 08:29:19 AM
The Tomkins articles are always insightful and in the main they're bang on accurate...extremely damning for Hodgson...

but...

who to take over?

Because of the dithering, Pellegrini is out of the picture...a major disaster for us...malaga under pellegrini...2 straight wins...b4 pellegrini 1 win, 2 draws, 4 lost in 7....

Hiddink was approached in the summer and according to some sources , the 64 year-old former Chelsea boss, revealed: “In the summer City and Liverpool both came to me with an inquiry. But at my age I don’t want to manage a club again for seven days a week over three years.” So it looks like he's out...

Meanwhile....potential Liverpool target PSV player Afellay signs for Barca...
and todays news from the mail...is that there won't even be any buys in the january window...mail BS perhaps and at least it means Roy doesn't get to spend it...

Nerve succeeds and all that...decisions on Roy and players need to be made...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Gurdeep on November 16, 2010, 09:30:45 AM
The Tomkins articles are always insightful and in the main they're bang on accurate...extremely damning for Hodgson...

but...

who to take over?

Because of the dithering, Pellegrini is out of the picture...a major disaster for us...malaga under pellegrini...2 straight wins...b4 pellegrini 1 win, 2 draws, 4 lost in 7....

Hiddink was approached in the summer and according to some sources , the 64 year-old former Chelsea boss, revealed: “In the summer City and Liverpool both came to me with an inquiry. But at my age I don’t want to manage a club again for seven days a week over three years.” So it looks like he's out...

Meanwhile....potential Liverpool target PSV player Afellay signs for Barca...
and todays news from the mail...is that there won't even be any buys in the january window...mail BS perhaps and at least it means Roy doesn't get to spend it...

Nerve succeeds and all that...decisions on Roy and players need to be made...

My understanding is that Henry conducted an interview with RAWK in which he commented on the fact they did not see January as the time to look to acquire new players.  He wanted transfer business to be held during next summer - maybe enough time for them to identify a new manager???
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 16, 2010, 12:27:14 PM
TBH Juan I find it hard to believe that any liverpool fan wanted to see Roy take charge.

I remember watching the World Cup and seeing Woy on the beeb.  Gary Linekar was asking Woy about the Liverpool vacancy.  Woy was being very candid and not giving anything away. 
Just thought of him managing liverpool had my stomach churning!

I really can't see how NESV can standby him any longer.  It's pretty obvious that the majority of supporter want him out.  His position is becoming untenable day by day imho.  Plus his interviews don't help him much either.

To be honest I was so desperate for Roy not to get the job I wanted England to lose their last group game in the WC, Capello to get the sack and Roy to get the England job. Its the only way I could see him been taken out of the picture.

I can understand Nesvs position to be honest. Hodgson has probably been talked up by Broughton and Purslow. They have heard how the clubs crisis and current state of affairs is all down to Rafa. They dont know football yet so I think before making any huge decisions on things they know nothing about they are prepared to wait and see how Roy does for themselves.

I really really like the fact they have taken an interest and met Tomkins. His outlook on the game is purely based on numbers and as you see through the article you posted Hodgsons numbers are pretty awful, not just at Liverpool anywhere hes been. So I very much expect that its inevitable Roy will go unless the teaam makes drastic improvements. The worry for me is whether Torres and Reina will be still here when Henry makes that change.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 16, 2010, 12:33:05 PM
The Tomkins articles are always insightful and in the main they're bang on accurate...extremely damning for Hodgson...

but...

who to take over?

Because of the dithering, Pellegrini is out of the picture...a major disaster for us...malaga under pellegrini...2 straight wins...b4 pellegrini 1 win, 2 draws, 4 lost in 7....

Hiddink was approached in the summer and according to some sources , the 64 year-old former Chelsea boss, revealed: “In the summer City and Liverpool both came to me with an inquiry. But at my age I don’t want to manage a club again for seven days a week over three years.” So it looks like he's out...

Meanwhile....potential Liverpool target PSV player Afellay signs for Barca...
and todays news from the mail...is that there won't even be any buys in the january window...mail BS perhaps and at least it means Roy doesn't get to spend it...

Nerve succeeds and all that...decisions on Roy and players need to be made...

It really is sickening to see Pelligrini start so well, simply because it shows us what we are missing.

I know he has signed a 3 year  deal at Malaga but do you not think it would be worth investigating. Funnier things have happened and it may be Pelligrinis last chance to manage a big club  in the PL. Maybe his contract has a clause. All wishful thinking but when the time comes to hire a new manager it may well be worth investigating.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 16, 2010, 12:41:15 PM
Well i don't know what to make of this - why was he appointed in the first place (as in, what was the 'rationale') and did Kenny Dalglish recommend him after Purslow turned him down? This is an indictment of the man and confirmation of everything we feared - but Henry is standing behind him because he just isn't getting the right information. I think the only ay henry is going to realise what a mediocre manager we have is for the entire Kop to start singing for kenny. If we lose, or even draw, then it will be about 6 45 pm this Saturday. Will he ever hear us?

I think the fact that Kenny put himself forward for the job was a massive vote of no confidence in Roy. And when Kenny did put his name forward Roy was clear favourite. So I wouldnt say Kenny ever backed Roy as such but it was more of a case that Purslow intended to hire Roy whatever the circumstances and Kenny either had to row in behind or probably look for a job elsewhere. I dont think he got any other option but to back Roy in the end. And the fact that Kennys son came out publicly on two separate occasions pleading to give the job to his father basically saying everything Kenny couldnt shows that he thought he was best man for the job out of who they were considering.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 16, 2010, 12:58:24 PM
For me this should be the final nail in the coffin for Roy. Ive said it before and I truly believe if Pacheco were English he would have been afforded more chances now. Roy is a disgrace. Comolli was supposedly hired to bring in the top young talent to the club so maybe his first job should be to stop Roy letting one of Spains top youngsters go.

http://www.guillembalague.com/rumores_desp.php?titulo=Begiristain%20move%20to%20Chelsea%20on%20hold;%20Pacheco%20wants%20Liverpool%20exit&id=289

Begiristain move to Chelsea on hold; Pacheco wants Liverpool exit

After three fairly lengthy meetings recently between Chelsea and Txiki Beguiristáin,  the plan for the former Barcelona sporting director to take on a role at Stamford Bridge has been put on hold. Initially, the idea had been for Beguiristáin to join Chelsea in January, but following negotiations, there are question marks over how quickly and to what extent Abramovich wishes to emulate FC Barcelona and revolutionise operations at the London club.


Dani Pacheco wants to leave Liverpool


Dani Pacheco was told by Roy Hodgson that he would be included in his plans, and the fact that the Spanish youngster has spent three years at Anfield, qualifying him as a `home-grown` talent helped him secure a professional contract at Liverpool. However, after failing to be selected by Hodgson, Pacheco wishes to leave Liverpool. Real Sociedad had wanted to take Pacheco on loan last summer.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 16, 2010, 02:10:30 PM
yes, saw that last night,where Hiddink says he was approached in the summer by liverpool.........but has ruled himself out because of age.

just being the devil's advocate here - but has pelegini won much more in europe this past decade than woy?

what about hetzfeld, have you all ruled him out?  Proven winner at bayern.  Possibly perfect senior age.  Would know the german market inside out.  And scolari?

just sayin
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on November 16, 2010, 03:26:52 PM
Take your point about Pellegrini not winning anything in Europe, dude, but he took Villareal from nowhere to the CL and got them playing decent football and then had a year at Real, where he got the best points total that Real had ever had (only beaten by Barca cos they're even betterer and have the 7 world cup champions (TM))...
Hitzfeld would be a possibility as he was awesome at Bayern...
Scolari didn't really impress at Chelsea, as he got sacked so not sure about him...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 16, 2010, 04:47:07 PM
Anybody ios better than this clown. Is it okay to not care anymore while he's still there. In the mirror today he is selling Johnson to bring a twenty-nine yr old frenchman in. He's called Fanni. Of course he is.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 16, 2010, 05:06:49 PM
Take your point about Pellegrini not winning anything in Europe, dude, but he took Villareal from nowhere to the CL and got them playing decent football and then had a year at Real, where he got the best points total that Real had ever had (only beaten by Barca cos they're even betterer and have the 7 world cup champions (TM))...
Hitzfeld would be a possibility as he was awesome at Bayern...
Scolari didn't really impress at Chelsea, as he got sacked so not sure about him...

my worry is that pelegrini is merely another woy - someone who can get a team playing nice looking football, and who occasionally comes close.............but is not a winner at the top table.

the bloke has won nothing in europe, apart from an intertoto cup in 2004.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 16, 2010, 05:09:19 PM
Anybody ios better than this clown. Is it okay to not care anymore while he's still there. In the mirror today he is selling Johnson to bring a twenty-nine yr old frenchman in. He's called Fanni. Of course he is.

So despite Comolli's supposed search for younger players Roy's idea is to sell exactly the sort of player we're supposed to be looking at and bringing in the sort of player we're no longer supposed to be looking at. Obviously Roy didn't get the memo.
Then again, he let his mate have Smalling for relative peanuts. In every way he's the diametric opposite of Wenger. Henry needs to wise up and realise this, especially if he's wanting to follow the Arsenal method.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 16, 2010, 05:10:56 PM
In the mirror today he is selling Johnson to bring a twenty-nine yr old frenchman in. He's called Fanni. Of course he is.
If that rumour is true then it is absolutely outrageous! I'm not sure how it would get past the new guidlines on purchasing players.

Kelly should be the new RB if Johnson doesn't want to stay. But if he's just piddled off with RH then he should be encouraged to stay with a quite word in Roy's ear. It makes a mockery of being a 'safe pair of hands' if you antagonise a player enough to make him want to leave.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 16, 2010, 05:18:05 PM
Hate to ad to this, but Pacheco has been written up in the papers as wanting out in January too. He's one of the hottest prospects in world football. Who will Roy get to replace him - Kevin Davis probably.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 16, 2010, 05:27:10 PM
Surely those in power at Anfield will be questioning these decisions just as we are. It's almost as though he's been planted to cause as much damage as possible. Mission accomplished bar the Napoli and Chelsea games.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 16, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
Don't worry ASI, I think NESV cannot afford to ignore their customers much longer. There is talks on a lot of forums of protest chants throughout the west Ham game. At least that would bring things to a head - henry is going to have to start broaching the subject of Roy head-on.  The fans are the only ones who can change this. We can't afford to allow our club to keep making backward steps....having rid ourselves of the two cancers we need another surgical strike, or the malaise will worsen. From 'Blip' to 'flatline'.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 16, 2010, 05:56:34 PM
Clem,

Unless there are chants of "Hodgson Out" on Saturday (which would be horrible to hear from a traditional point of view) I just don't see Mr Henry reversing a decision that quickly. But I'd be happy to be proved wrong. Roy is doing more damage than good at present.

I do take some comfort from the fact that Mr Henry is listening to fan groups and established journalists. But without a CE or Chairman who is knowledgeable about football matters Mr Henry has no-one who he can turn to for advice.

Brian Barwick's name was mentioned recently. Might he be a suitable appointment for Chairman? He is a fanatical LFC supporter.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 16, 2010, 06:57:58 PM
my worry is that pelegrini is merely another woy - someone who can get a team playing nice looking football,

Dude, that would make him anything but another Roy.  :D

Hitzfeld's Swiss team are playing Hodgball and did in the World Cup.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 16, 2010, 07:47:59 PM
Surely those in power at Anfield will be questioning these decisions just as we are. It's almost as though he's been planted to cause as much damage as possible. Mission accomplished bar the Napoli and Chelsea games.

ASI, I understand what you're saying and we'd all hope for it to be true, but we'd then be making the presumption that they already understand enough about 'soccer' to be able to make that assessment.

So far we've had a 'director of football strategy' appointed on the recommendation of Billy Beane, the general manager of Oakland As baseball team, who just happens to be a friend of Comolli. So why not Txiki Beguiristáin, the former Barca sporting director, who is now rumoured may be joining Chelsea sometime in the near future.

Yes they may have experience of running a sports business, but it's a sports business, based on baseball, in the sporting enviroment of the USA. We on the other hand are a business based on football, run in twin environments of England and Europe.

IMHO, the best first move they could have made was to ask David Dein to be a consultant and work with him a) to be educated and b) to discuss the best setup. If they've looked at Bayern, as was once mentioned in an earlier interview with Henry (if memory serves) they would see the advantages, at least in their case, of a football board. This could be made up of a former CEO of a football club (primarily from the transfer/financial side of operating a football club and player recruitment processes, someone like Dalglish as an ex player and manager and someone like Steve Heighway as an ex academy director with knowledge of the recruitment, education and training of young players.

At the moment their football knowledge extends to just one man, Damian Comolli. We need to have set out a blue print for the playing side, so that every team, at every level plays the same way.
Pep Segura and Rodolfo Borrell would be a good place to start as they will be producing the youngsters and therefore are the starting point of the process. Also Barca seem to have a decent way of playing.
Again, look at the past, the way we used to play, the way that has been adapted by Ferguson.

I have no doubt that Henry, Werner and Co will get it right, they've been too successful in their previous incarnations not to, but I think it will be a long ride over some very bumpy terrain for the first 1-3 years.
   
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 16, 2010, 08:07:29 PM
Good points TES. You know, a lot of people are talking about a role for Aldo, Thommo etc within the club because of their fanatical support and footy knowledge. Do you reckon it is in this role they can be most effective? Think ASI's call on Barwick would be sensible too, but I don't think the FA have a great track record either - especially about England
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 16, 2010, 08:39:34 PM
Dude, that would make him anything but another Roy.  :D

Hitzfeld's Swiss team are playing Hodgball and did in the World Cup.

the swiss have very limited talent to call upon tho, Tes.

I look for winners, or those young coaches who show great promise.  When I see someone who is older, and hasn't won much, and I have to question why.  Pellegrini is 57 years old, and won nothing since he came to manage in europe, apart from an intertoto cup in 2004.

Woy had one good season at fulham, taking them to an Europa League final.

Craig Burley had Ipswich playing great football for a season, finishing 5th in the premiership. 

By 57 years of age, you're either a winner or you're not.  And Pellegrini doesn't come across, to me, as a winner.

He comes across as another Claudio Ranieri, Roy Evans or Martin Jol type.   Great blokes, top managers, but not winners.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 16, 2010, 09:19:21 PM
the swiss have very limited talent to call upon tho, Tes.

Agreed, hence them having to play Hodgball. We mentioned Hitzfeld in the Summer and he's definately right up there with the best. Again, like Guuuuuuus, does he want the day to day involvement or is this his way of winding down? Capello I think may also come under this catagory.

To further extend the argument, just as we've (hopefully) sorted out our finances (at least in debt reduction) before the Mancs, we need to get our long term management sorted before Taggart retires, so we're ready to take advantage of his era ending and we're not competing with them to attract the right man.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 16, 2010, 10:07:55 PM
Agreed, hence them having to play Hodgball. We mentioned Hitzfeld in the Summer and he's definately right up there with the best. Again, like Guuuuuuus, does he want the day to day involvement or is this his way of winding down? Capello I think may also come under this catagory.

To further extend the argument, just as we've (hopefully) sorted out our finances (at least in debt reduction) before the Mancs, we need to get our long term management sorted before Taggart retires, so we're ready to take advantage of his era ending and we're not competing with them to attract the right man.

agreed.

yes, those in the know (in football circles) will most likely be aware of the circumstances of individuals like hiddink and hitzfeld.  hiddink has ruled himself out of club mgt.  hitzfeld, who knows.  It is odd that he lets himself manage the turkish national side.  Maybe he too, just wants a quiet number, that will top up his pension.

whoever we get.....and i hope for an experienced type like hitzfeld.....they have to be able to commit for at least 5 seasons.  Stability, with the right people in place, is the key to long term success.


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 16, 2010, 10:43:32 PM
Hi Tes,

An excellent reply. I do wonder why they felt it important to hire a director of football now if they don't feel there is value in the January market. Surely a British CE such as Dein or Barwick would be more important to help them with other appointments. I'm sure they're doing their homework on 'soccer' but it doesn't take an expert to know when the fans are unhappy. A quick Google of results against Stoke would show it was a bad result.

Things seem to have stalled in the last couple of weeks which isn't good. They need to take some advice about whether Hodgson is a capable manager. Listening to fan groups is a start but they also need to listen to others and keep an open mind. Unless we start winning games we will lose the chance of finishing 4th with all that that entails. This is proving a strange season and no one club has a stranglehold on the league. This opportunity must not be lost.

If it does take 1-3 years as you suggest I fear we will lose our keeper and Torres and who could blame them. That makes any rebuilding even more difficult. One month into their ownership the momentum MUST not be lost. I hope we see some senior club appointments by the end of the month.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 16, 2010, 10:48:16 PM
Good points TES. You know, a lot of people are talking about a role for Aldo, Thommo etc within the club because of their fanatical support and footy knowledge. Do you reckon it is in this role they can be most effective? Think ASI's call on Barwick would be sensible too, but I don't think the FA have a great track record either - especially about England

Fanatical support is OK as long as it doesn't effect clarity of thought and purpose.

I would take Thommo ahead of Aldo. One of Paisley's captains, successful as reserve team coach and did well covering for Houllier. I think he's the less reactive out of the two.

I like Barwick. His executive experience is broad within difficult to run institutions, obviously is a fan but I don't think that would get in the way of the decision making process and understands the city and people as well as the club.

As for the FA, committees, committees, committees and a host of conflicting interests all pulling in different directions and the chief executive has an impossible task getting anything done due the nature of the setup. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 16, 2010, 11:19:11 PM
Hi Tes,

An excellent reply. I do wonder why they felt it important to hire a director of football now if they don't feel there is value in the January market. Surely a British CE such as Dein or Barwick would be more important to help them with other appointments. I'm sure they're doing their homework on 'soccer' but it doesn't take an expert to know when the fans are unhappy. A quick Google of results against Stoke would show it was a bad result.

Things seem to have stalled in the last couple of weeks which isn't good. They need to take some advice about whether Hodgson is a capable manager. Listening to fan groups is a start but they also need to listen to others and keep an open mind. Unless we start winning games we will lose the chance of finishing 4th with all that that entails. This is proving a strange season and no one club has a stranglehold on the league. This opportunity must not be lost.

If it does take 1-3 years as you suggest I fear we will lose our keeper and Torres and who could blame them. That makes any rebuilding even more difficult. One month into their ownership the momentum MUST not be lost. I hope we see some senior club appointments by the end of the month.

Dein is 67 unbelievably, which is why I think a consultantcy role would have probably suited him more.
Barwick is a good shout, at least on the surface, however below is a couple of interesting articles about his tenure at the FA, but I would never put too much weight behind considering success or failure at the FA, as it's like trying to turn a battleship around in your average English river, getting anything done at that place.

Ivan Gazidis at Arsenal, who tookover from Dein, was someone who I'd never heard of and so far I am impressed, so maybe there are others out there. However, Gazidis has the advantage of having an established and experienced board, and of course Wenger.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/more-fa-jobs-to-go-after-exit-of-barwick-907117.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/more-fa-jobs-to-go-after-exit-of-barwick-907117.html)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/05/brian-barwick-fa (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/05/brian-barwick-fa)

As far as rebuilding goes, I think there will inevitably be some collateral damage unfortunately and losing Reina and Torres would be the worst case scenario. I don't think there are two better players at the club to spearhead our hopeful rebirth and they are the sort of players we need to get back to attracting, good but not great before coming to us. Greatness being achieved whilst with us. I hope it doesn't prove to be Roy's legacy.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 17, 2010, 12:15:00 AM
Hodgball
;D ;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 17, 2010, 02:50:31 PM
Fanatical support is OK as long as it doesn't effect clarity of thought and purpose.

I would take Thommo ahead of Aldo. One of Paisley's captains, successful as reserve team coach and did well covering for Houllier. I think he's the less reactive out of the two.

I like Barwick. His executive experience is broad within difficult to run institutions, obviously is a fan but I don't think that would get in the way of the decision making process and understands the city and people as well as the club.

As for the FA, committees, committees, committees and a host of conflicting interests all pulling in different directions and the chief executive has an impossible task getting anything done due the nature of the setup.

Barwick, was he not in charge when Sven got a new 4 year contract before the WC only for England to have a disappointing WC but because they had given Sven such a huge deal they couldnt fire him.

As for Hitzfeld and Hiddink. Hiddink I would definitely be happy with as manager but saying that I would prefer someone more adventurous, proven if possible but younger and still something to prove in the game. Hitzfeld and Hiddink for me could be that little bit too old. But if it was a choice between them and Roy Id pack Roys bags for him. In fact at this stage I'd give lassie a go at managing the team if it meant getting rid of Roy.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 17, 2010, 03:33:01 PM
I'd not judge any CE of the FA by what they did there. Any CE is just a figurehead and scapegoat for the incompetance of the committees by which the FA is run.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on November 17, 2010, 06:25:48 PM
I'd give lassie a go at managing the team if it meant getting rid of Roy.

LMAO...comedy! and absolutely true...Lassie would give more feedback and directions from the sidelines.....

and on that theme...the littlest hobo would be world class!
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 17, 2010, 06:35:32 PM
Dein is 67 unbelievably, which is why I think a consultantcy role would have probably suited him more.
Barwick is a good shout, at least on the surface, however below is a couple of interesting articles about his tenure at the FA, but I would never put too much weight behind considering success or failure at the FA, as it's like trying to turn a battleship around in your average English river, getting anything done at that place.
They don't paint Barwick in a very good light but no-one is perfect and I'm sure he would have more passion for the LFC job than that at the FA. Henry and co seem astute businessmen and I have confidence that they will make a good appointment.

Quote
As far as rebuilding goes, I think there will inevitably be some collateral damage unfortunately and losing Reina and Torres would be the worst case scenario.
If we can get one quality player in January that would send out all the right signals to the team. I fear if we leave it until the summer Torres will be off if we don't make 4th or better. A lot of water to go under the bridge before then.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 17, 2010, 09:43:35 PM
They don't paint Barwick in a very good light but no-one is perfect and I'm sure he would have more passion for the LFC job than that at the FA. Henry and co seem astute businessmen and I have confidence that they will make a good appointment.
If we can get one quality player in January that would send out all the right signals to the team. I fear if we leave it until the summer Torres will be off if we don't make 4th or better. A lot of water to go under the bridge before then.

I just don't think the current FA setup allows for dynamism or would ever allow a chief executive to make the telling changes neccessary, hence any CE will come out unfairly and inaccurately tarnished as a result.

I think the wateer will get choppy before it starts to flow in the manner we wish it to.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 17, 2010, 11:26:45 PM
LMAO...comedy! and absolutely true...Lassie would give more feedback and directions from the sidelines.....

and on that theme...the littlest hobo would be world class!

Unlike Roy Lassie would at least know when the teams in trouble and go for help.

The littlest hobo hasn't proved it on the big stage like Lassie, Skippy and Flipper.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 17, 2010, 11:35:12 PM
good stuff.

these characters all bring back memories.

skippy, hector's house, jackanory, black beauty, playschool, etc.

I can picture Woy reading a yarn on Jackanory.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 18, 2010, 12:02:17 AM
Unlike Roy Lassie would at least know when the teams in trouble and go for help.

The littlest hobo hasn't proved it on the big stage like Lassie, Skippy and Flipper.

 :D Juan on top form tonight.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 18, 2010, 12:03:54 AM
good stuff.

these characters all bring back memories.

skippy, hector's house, jackanory, black beauty, playschool, etc.

I can picture Woy reading a yarn on Jackanory.

Thanks, Dude, I'll be humming myself to sleep to the tune of Black Beauty now.  :D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 18, 2010, 12:10:41 AM
Thanks, Dude, I'll be humming myself to sleep to the tune of Black Beauty now.  :D

oh i know, Tes.

the theme was in the background  the other night, of a special show on the Goodies.

i had to think what the theme was...........and it was black beauty...............been in my head ever since.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 18, 2010, 11:02:31 AM
good stuff.

these characters all bring back memories.

skippy, hector's house, jackanory, black beauty, playschool, etc.

I can picture Woy reading a yarn on Jackanory.

Ha too true dude.

Roy also wouldnt look out of place kitted out in a trench coat on an episode of diagnosis murder or teaming up with Jessica Fletcher in Murder She Wrote either. Maybe they could investigate whose murdering Liverpools chances of qualifying for the Champions League or playing good football.

I'd love to see the climax of the episode with Jessica pinpointing that Roys actually been the murderer all along and that hes also been sabotaging other clubs chances for 35 years now.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 18, 2010, 11:05:12 AM
:D Juan on top form tonight.

 :D You need a sense of humor supporting the club these days Tes otherwise before long we could all end up in the looney bin.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Jas_lfc on November 18, 2010, 02:01:37 PM
I haven't posted on there for many years, in fact haven't looked in there for an age.

Sorry I missed this post earlier, but Talklfc seems to be in a bit of a struggle at the moment. What was your user name on there?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 18, 2010, 04:09:43 PM
:D You need a sense of humor supporting the club these days Tes otherwise before long we could all end up in the looney bin.

Insanity always helps take the edge off things, though.



*Now where did I put my crayons? 'Nurse. NURSE!!'
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 21, 2010, 02:35:01 PM
I think Roy is far less clued in than I thought if he genuinely believes hes been judged on two bad performances this season.

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/10/11/21/SOCCER_Liverpool_Nightlead.html&TEAMHD=soccer

Liverpool manager Roy Hodgson believes his team have been tainted by two matches which have done "untold damage" but insists the improvement from the start of the season shows they were written off too early.

Saturday's 3-0 win over West Ham at Anfield was achieved with the minimum amount of fuss - somewhat helpfully in the injury-enforced absence of captain Steven Gerrard - against a side who struggled to rise above mediocre.

The Reds' fourth victory in six Barclays Premier League matches came on the back of a defeat at Stoke the previous week, lifting them to within touching distance of the top four.

Having endured their worst start to a campaign since 1953/54 with six points from eight games they have now accrued 13 from their last six.

Encouraging performances from Raul Meireles, given the freedom of central midfield by the Hammers, and Glen Johnson show there can be optimism despite Gerrard being sidelined for a month.

Hodgson thinks, however, that his side is still being judged on their early-season form.

"There are two games this year which have done us untold damage," he said.

"The first was when a total reserve team - although it does not seem to have been noticed we had 14 first-team players who didn't play - lost to Northampton in the Carling Cup.

"The other was the disastrous (2-1) defeat to Blackpool at the end of a three-match week when we played in Europe.

"Those two defeats were costly for us because they encouraged people to make bold conclusions but we've lost once in eight (in all competitions).

"There are still a lot of things to do but what pleased me against West Ham was the shape, discipline and organisation of the team.

"If we can keep that going with the quality of players we have got we can have a good season.

"Don't ask me what a good season is because I don't know but after the start we have had where we are now is making us feel pretty pleased."

Right-back Johnson returned after a three-match absence with a groin injury to score the first and put in a display which suggested he could very quickly rediscover his marauding form of old.

The England international chested down Meireles' corner to fire home before Dirk Kuyt converted from the spot after Danny Gabbidon's handball and Maxi Rodriguez headed in left-back Paul Konchesky's cross - all in the first 38 minutes.

West Ham were complicit in allowing their hosts the time and space they needed to pick them apart but there were small signs Hodgson's blueprint is beginning to take shape.

And his two full-backs are set to play a pivotal role.

"Glen was very good in everything he did, as was Paul on the other side," added Hodgson.

"It was nice to see Glen scoring the first goal and Paul crossing for the third because we do try to do some work in getting our full-backs in advanced positions by using the space the midfield players create.

"It gives you a chance to cause your opponents more problems because your movements drag them around.

"If you play with wingers up there who hug the line all the time it is a little bit easier to mark them rather than having players who move off the line into other positions.

"If you can work on that aspect to your play and you have full-backs who know when to go forward and exploit the space and, more importantly, can deliver the ball then you have half a chance."

Central midfield was expected to be a concern with Gerrard and Jay Spearing both out for the foreseeable future and Lucas Leiva suspended but the much-criticised Christian Poulsen had his best game since arriving in the summer, admittedly against weak opposition.

Meireles looked much happier operating centrally, where he does for Portugal, than he has done out wide.

"We work hard every day to win games but sometimes we don't win but we showed great football against West Ham," said the 27-year-old.

"I feel more comfortable playing in the middle but I play where the coach wants."

West Ham manager Avram Grant insists he is the right man to lead the club off the bottom of the Barclays Premier League table and away from the relegation zone.

"Even now I am sure we can get out of this. I don't analyse only the Liverpool game because it was poor," he said.

"If you look at recent performances we have done well and if we do it again we will win games because it cannot happen things will go against us all the time.

"We need to win even though there are a lot of games before the end of the season we need to start now because we are bottom."
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 21, 2010, 03:29:35 PM

Woy weckons:

"Those two defeats were costly for us because they encouraged people to make bold conclusions but we've lost once in eight (in all competitions)."

"Don't ask me what a good season is because I don't know"

hey Roy, you like to talk stats.....so how many games have you won away from home in the premiership across this past decade?  Given the dire data, I think people are entirely correct to make bold conclusions re your abilities.

and you say that you don't know what a good season would be.  Let me tell you.  Competing for a top 4 finish would be key. 

time to go.  We need a top class man in the dugout. 



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 21, 2010, 05:21:43 PM
"The first was when a total reserve team - although it does not seem to have been noticed we had 14 first-team players who didn't play - lost to Northampton in the Carling Cup."

So Roy, that happened because of or despite you?


Of course Roy doesn't know what a good season is, he's never had one with a team that weren't of semi amateur standard.

How does Roy eat his meals when both feet are permanently in his mouth?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 21, 2010, 10:01:47 PM


Of course Roy doesn't know what a good season is, he's never had one with a team that weren't of semi amateur standard.


;D
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on November 23, 2010, 10:58:34 AM
Fabio Capello wanted by Inter Milan to replace Rafa Benitez: England boss in-demand

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1332127/Fabio-Capello-wanted-Inter-Milan-replace-Rafa-Benitez.html

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Kopite999 on November 23, 2010, 11:01:49 AM
Woy OR Wafa? :-\ :-\ :P
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 23, 2010, 04:48:43 PM
That article is from the Mail, and they have no quotes so I guess its worth treating with healthy disdain.  That said though, say Inter were to sack Rafa do you think Henry would want him here as our manager?  Be a controversial call, and popular with most fans, but it would mean the media getting right into us and Henry. Wonder if that would put him off, as the commercial side of the business might suffer?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2010, 05:01:46 PM
sacking Woy and reappointing Rafa, would be the death of James Lawton.  The columnist would choke on his cornflakes.

as for Rafa - like tes and me have always said, and it's been borne out at Inter, Rafa is misisng the other half of his mgt duo (i.e. the friend he fell out with - Packa).

Inter has shown Rafa up.  Plus it was always a poisoned chalice.

Makes me wonder though, if we could tempt Maureen to come to anfield (the portuguese fellah might want to put one over on Rafa).


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 23, 2010, 05:08:21 PM
Don't want him here myself. He was disrespectful to the fans at times, and continually tried to lure our captain away. He plays very boring football too.  Also, thankfully, the only challenge he likes is if he can top what he spent last transfer window.  I don't think he has the stomach for our fight tbh - he wouldn't fancy his odds against the super-rich here.  His revenge on Rafa is almost complete anyway by the sounds of it.  Im not sure about Pako Dude. he was brilliant but didn't he leave before we got 2nd?  i think we missed Xabi more.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 23, 2010, 10:52:32 PM
Don't want him here myself. He was disrespectful to the fans at times, and continually tried to lure our captain away. He plays very boring football too.  Also, thankfully, the only challenge he likes is if he can top what he spent last transfer window.  I don't think he has the stomach for our fight tbh - he wouldn't fancy his odds against the super-rich here.  His revenge on Rafa is almost complete anyway by the sounds of it.  Im not sure about Pako Dude. he was brilliant but didn't he leave before we got 2nd?  i think we missed Xabi more.

Maureen is a c*nt and wouldnt be wanted by a large section of the fans but I think if he were to be appointed he would get huge levels of support. Theres also one thing you can guarantee with Mourihno is that your team would compete. During his time at Chelsea I put his success down to money but his time at Porto and Inter have proved what he can do without a blank cheque.

We would probably become the most hated team in the PL but I would prefer to be that and successful rather than have Roy and not.

If I could hire any manager in the world right now for LFC Maureen would be it.

Unfortunately he recently said that he would manage nearly every team in the top half of the PL with exception to Liverpool. He said he would one day explain why we are one of the only English clubs he wouldnt go to. I expect its because of his love affair with United.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 25, 2010, 12:42:12 AM
If Roy has decided to sell Pacheco on the back of not stepping up against Northampton then is it not fair that the fans want Roy out on the back of almost every away game we've played this season.

Pachecos goal the other night in the reserves gave us a glimpse of what hes capable of. Why Roy is consistently ignoring such a promising talent and would be willing to let him go without any kind of run in the first team (even from the bench) again says more about Roys lack of ability to manage than it does about Pachecos ability.

The sheer fact Pacheco was a star for Spains u-19s this summer should be enough to warrant him a chance with the first team and that's without even acknowledging the reputation he has earned since his days at Barca and at Liverpool up to now.

Mavinga was another that reached the final of the under 19s with France. He was rewarded by being demoted to the reserves. Yet Roy insists on bringing through the English lads like Shelvey even though Pacheco was probably more deserving of a chance. Dont get me wrong its great to have home grown players breaking through but I sense it might be harder for young foreign lads to come through under Roy.

Roy is very quick to call on the fans to give him a chance to showcase his managerial capabilities but he doesnt seem willing to afford blatantly talented players Pacheco the same kind of chance. Hypocrite.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/pacheco-faces-anfield-exit-after-missed-opportunity-2142871.html

Pacheco faces Anfield exit after missed opportunity

By Ian Herbert

Thursday, 25 November 2010

Liverpool are ready to reduce their wage bill in January with Daniel Pacheco, the 19-year-old Spaniard considered one of the Barcelona academy's rising stars when he signed three years ago, among those manager Roy Hodgson may be prepared to lose.

The failure to maintain academy players' development between 16 and 19 has been a recurrent theme at Liverpool in recent years and Pacheco has remained inconsistent. There is considerable interest in him from Spain – including Malaga and Espanyol – and Hodgson has made it clear that the striker missed a major opportunity to impress in Liverpool's Carling Cup defeat to Northampton Town in September. Hodgson said: "He featured in that unfortunate Northampton game and it's a fact of life that it was a great opportunity for those outside the first 13 or 14 to really show me, 'You should be thinking of me'."

There is also uncertainty about the Anfield futures of defender Daniel Agger, whose calf injury continues to worry medical staff, and Ryan Babel, who claimed bizarrely on Twitter yesterday that assistant manager Sammy Lee had ordered him to stop practising during the Benitez era. Babel, whom Malaga are also tracking, wrote: "I wasn't allowed to train extra under our former manager, even when I wasn't involved. I even tried to train extra by doing it secretly, but the assistant manager came to tell me to stop."

Dr Peter Brukner, Liverpool's head of sports science, said Agger's injury, sustained by a kick to the calf on international duty, had caused calcification to a blood clot. The Dane could be a target for a Bundesliga club.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 25, 2010, 08:18:27 AM
Reducing the wage bill by selling our ball-playing centre-back and one of the most promising youngsters at the club. In what universe is this making any sense?  Why is it that there are no complaints against this management of liverpool from anyone other than the fans? The ex-players had plenty to say last season have all gone very quiet.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 25, 2010, 06:57:59 PM
Ronnie Whelan is especially noticable by his silence. The main ins and outs under Royinho have made little to no sense. You wonder how much long term damage will be done by the time NESV have learnt enough about the subject of their chosen 'sports business' to realise that Roy represents the complete antithesis of everything they've said about the club and their plans for it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 25, 2010, 11:12:54 PM
Agger's injury, sustained by a kick to his calf on international duty

someone kicked Dan's bullock when he was away on international duty?

I had hoped the scouse police had already caught that gang.

I'll get me coat.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 25, 2010, 11:16:10 PM
Ryan Babel claimed on Twitter yesterday that assistant manager Sammy Lee had ordered him to stop practising during the Benitez era. Babel wrote: "I wasn't allowed to train extra under our former manager, even when I wasn't involved. I even tried to train extra by doing it secretly, but the assistant manager came to tell me to stop."

we couldn't afford the lost balls, or the new panes of glass in residents homes beyond melwood's perimeter wall.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2010, 12:44:20 AM
we couldn't afford the lost balls, or the new panes of glass in residents homes beyond melwood's perimeter wall.

Sammy's obviously an animal lover. He didn't want to see the dead horse being flogged further.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2010, 12:49:49 AM
someone kicked Dan's bullock when he was away on international duty?

I had hoped the scouse police had already caught that gang.

I'll get me coat.

Luckily for him it was only singular.   :'(  'Tis enough to make the eyes water just thinking about it.

I gather a kick to the calf is veally painful. I once read that on the offal. I'm trying to steak my claim for the worst joke ever. Though my normal load of tripe will take some beating. No doubt someone will have a beef with me about it.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 26, 2010, 01:47:03 AM
Luckily for him it was only singular.   :'(  'Tis enough to make the eyes water just thinking about it.

I gather a kick to the calf is veally painful. I once read that on the offal. I'm trying to steak my claim for the worst joke ever. Though my normal load of tripe will take some beating. No doubt someone will have a beef with me about it.

as the local butcher says, you can't beat our meat.

I was too chicken to try.

the stakes were high.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 26, 2010, 01:46:40 PM
 ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Taxi for Dude and Tes
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 26, 2010, 04:01:20 PM
Its official, Roy Hodgson is insane. Speaking from his psychiatric ward Roy had this to say;

http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6527266,00.html

Liverpool manager Roy Hodgson has no worries over his squad's mentality as they go in search of only their second Barclays Premier League away win of the season this weekend at Tottenham.

So far the only Barclays Premier League victory on opposition turf has come at Bolton, and that is only the second success outside Anfield since December 29 when they beat Aston Villa.

They have an ideal chance to start putting things right at White Hart Lane on Sunday, especially as Spurs' record suggests they are vulnerable after playing in the Champions League in midweek.

Liverpool's last game on the road was a disappointing 2-0 defeat at Stoke, which ended a six-match unbeaten run in all competitions.

However, Hodgson - whose side returned to winning ways with victory over West Ham last weekend - said he did not think playing away from home was a problem for his players.

"The away form has been bad for a long time," said the Reds boss.

"We've had one good victory and a couple of reasonable draws but I'm afraid in this league away victories are hard to come by.

"We've not been a lucky team so far, whatever we've got we've had to battle for.


"I don't think mentality comes into it. Against Stoke we had done well against them until they scored the goal.

"Then we took the game to them and conceded a second and everyone thinks the team played badly and were battered.


"I believe if we continue to play the way we did against West Ham we may get one or two but it is the level of performance which counts.

"Results determine everything and people look at the results and then judge the performance.


"I have to judge the performance sometimes when we win and say 'That was not very good and we could do better' and sometimes when we lose I have to look at it and say it was a bad result but not as bad as all that."

Hodgson will be without captain Steven Gerrard at the weekend as he is sidelined with a hamstring tear but is hopeful Joe Cole, who has not played since October 31 with a similar problem, could return against Spurs.

The 63-year-old is also contemplating using the versatility of full-back Fabio Aurelio now the Brazilian is back to fitness, having made only his fourth appearance of the season as a substitute against the Hammers.

"He can definitely play as a left midfielder," said Hodgson.

"When we re-signed him we were thinking we needed two good left-backs at the club and that he'd be competing for one of those places in the team.

"But I saw him do very well in Trabzonspor when he moved up into midfield, and he tells me that when he was in Valencia he played in midfield very often.

"It's definitely an option. If he can stay fit then it could be a really good boost to our team.

"Already I've got him pencilled in for the game against Steaua Bucharest, so let's hope he can stay fit until then and I can see him in a 90-minute game."
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 26, 2010, 04:14:49 PM
Just in relation to some of the bits I highlighted above I think Roy is speaking through that semi permed hair of his because he is telling lies.

Firstly he talks about luck. If anything hes probably had more luck than most this season. Against Stoke we were lucky not to concede a penalty against Skrtel in the first half. In the second half we were lucky not to lose by more.

Wigan we were lucky to get a draw. Bolton a moment of class won us a game we didnt deserve to win. The list goes on so to say we have not been lucky is a lie.

The second point I highlighted Roy refers to our performance against Stoke and denies it was a bad performance. Although he disputes it we did get battered so im not sure whose rose tinted glasses Roy had borrowed that night.

Finally Roy is claiming results determine how people judge a game. That is normally true. However that has no bearing on the games we have been dropping points on this season, not only have results been poor performances on the whole have been atrocious so how Roy has the cheek to suggest that results are determining fans perceptions on performances is an absolute laugh.

Souness must be delighted that we've finally appointed someone that looks like they will finally overshadow his brutal reign as manager.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 26, 2010, 05:18:27 PM
Insane indeed. This line caught my eye...

We've had one good victory and a couple of reasonable draws but I'm afraid in this league away victories are hard to come by.

Spoken like a true Fulham manager who would only expect to get a couple of away wins each season. For a top 4 club I would expect to win around 35-45% of our away games with only a handful of defeats. Just like the 08-09 season.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on November 26, 2010, 06:57:12 PM
Insane indeed. This line caught my eye...

We've had one good victory and a couple of reasonable draws but I'm afraid in this league away victories are hard to come by.

Spoken like a true Fulham manager who would only expect to get a couple of away wins each season. For a top 4 club I would expect to win around 35-45% of our away games with only a handful of defeats. Just like the 08-09 season.

I missed that line ASI.

Completely agree "spoken like a true Fulham manager". The fact that hes still coming out with lines like that makes him sound like he still doesnt understand what it means to be a top top manager / manager of LFC.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 26, 2010, 06:59:24 PM


We've had one good victory and a couple of reasonable draws but I'm afraid in this league away victories are hard to come by.



I blame Henry for this.  The failure to dealing with the failure is really making me hate him and them.  I want the G&H reign over - and that means Roy out for me. And now.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2010, 07:41:57 PM
"The away form has been bad for a long time," said the Reds boss.

Who's away form would that be Roy? Liverpool's or your's in English football?


Juan, I agree with you on luck. We've had results the performances didn't merit. The crazy goal against Sunderland, as opposed to their beach ball goal. As you mentioned, the penalty incident away to Stoke as opposed to a perfectly good goal at home to Stoke etc.

Our 1 defeat in 8. I presume he's including European games also. Hardy a fair comparison, when we we would hope we were doing OK in the second tier competition.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2010, 07:44:54 PM
Insane indeed. This line caught my eye...

We've had one good victory and a couple of reasonable draws but I'm afraid in this league away victories are hard to come by.

Spoken like a true Fulham manager who would only expect to get a couple of away wins each season. For a top 4 club I would expect to win around 35-45% of our away games with only a handful of defeats. Just like the 08-09 season.

Mediocrity personified.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2010, 08:00:48 PM
Roy admits transfer U-turn

Last updated: 26th November 2010



Liverpool manager Roy Hodgson insists he is now keen to keep the current squad intact ahead of the January transfer window.

The Reds chief has previously signalled his intent to bring new blood into the club after a disastrous start to the current campaign that left them marooned in the bottom three.

But Liverpool have returned to form of late and Hodgson is pleased with the current contingent in the Anfield camp.

The 63-year-old admits he has changed his opinion on players he inherited from predecessor Rafa Benitez ahead of the trip to Tottenham Hotspur on Sunday.

"Basically I know what my best team is - the best team is more than 11 players," said the Reds boss, who accepts his view may have been tainted by poor results.

"I could have a best team and say one week it is with X and another week it is Y but it still would be my best team because the players are interchangeable.

"I have a very clear picture now of what we should and need to be doing and the squad is stronger and getting stronger.

"It was probably stronger than I realised at certain stages in the early part of the season when we were losing games.

"Hopefully that will mean we won't need to do too much in the January transfer window because it might be nice if we can keep all of these players fit and well and add the odd player or two who can help us.

"I have a lot of faith in the players who are playing at the moment because in the last two or three weeks we have put in some good performances."

Hodgson and his scouting team have been spotted at various matches on the continent in the last few weeks.

But his belief that things are improving, allied to an uncertainty of what transfer funds will be available, is likely to mean a limited amount of activity in January.

"I don't know what is going to happen in the transfer window," said Hodgson.

"We are doing a lot of work, covering a lot of matches and looking at a lot of players.

"We are trying to arm ourselves as much as possible with information.

"It is the work in progress which every club has to do - constantly monitoring players and what is out there, what might be useful for you because you never know what is around the corner.

"When push comes to shove in January none of us know as yet what transfer funds can be made available and we have no idea if there will be any guarantee the people we are watching will be available.

"I would like to continue with this squad of players until the end of the season because I have no ambitions or desires to move anyone.

"But on the other hand I can't give a stone certain guarantee that there won't be players moving in January, and if so we would need to know where to go for their replacements."


http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6528835,00.html (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6528835,00.html)

I guess as the weather's changed again, so has his mind. It seems like he made his mind up in haste about too many players, Dalla Valle probably falls into that catagory too.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 26, 2010, 09:55:30 PM
So...the Yanks aren't investing then? Suddenly the squad is stronger? It is a right dog's dinner of a statement.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 26, 2010, 10:52:11 PM
So...the Yanks aren't investing then? Suddenly the squad is stronger? It is a right dog's dinner of a statement.

I guess as far as January goes it will be a case of 'if the right player, at the right price' putting everything Henry, Comolli and now Roy have said. It's always harder to get a good deal anyway in January, and you'd hope that the sort of player we'd be looking at would be hard to get a club to release, either as they're important to the club or they're cup tied for European competition.

It doesn't show him up as much of a judge of a player if he's been so surprised, by so many players, as there has hardly been many setting the Premier League alight. Smacks more or bottom covering and talking up the results and performances again.

We've been 'overmanned', 'short of quality', 'short of squad depth' and now 'stronger'.

'Unbelieveable!'.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 27, 2010, 08:08:04 AM
We've been 'overmanned', 'short of quality', 'short of squad depth' and now 'stronger'.

Roy talks too much.

And each new day, brings some new attack. 

I imagine, in these first few months at anfield, he has alienated himself from many at the club.

My worry is that the longer Roy is at anfield, the more damage he will do, to our team/squad.

Roy seemingly does not know what Liverpool FC are about, nor does he know the type of player quality we need.  He seems hot on several Lille players.  I have doubts about such lads.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2010, 12:14:03 AM
My worry is that the longer Roy is at anfield, the more damage he will do, to our team/squad.

Exactly. He'll end up finishing Hicks' and Gillett's job for them.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2010, 11:10:44 AM
The Hodgson journalistic fan club is out in force this morning:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/nov/28/roy-hodgson-liverpool (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/nov/28/roy-hodgson-liverpool) - borders on being sycophantic with some unbelievable quotes about the manager's ability.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8164992/Tottenham-Hotspur-v-Liverpool-no-old-pals-act-as-Harry-Redknapp-and-Roy-Hodgson-become-foes-for-a-day.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8164992/Tottenham-Hotspur-v-Liverpool-no-old-pals-act-as-Harry-Redknapp-and-Roy-Hodgson-become-foes-for-a-day.html) - again very pro Hodgson and some of the points used in his support are dubiously based in reality at best.

Shame that foreign bloke who was here before didn't receive the same sort of 'understanding'.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 28, 2010, 11:41:41 AM
Great post TES. I stopped reading the Guardian because its anti-Liverpool bias was turning my stomach on too regular a basis.  This article is a scandalous indictment of the paper's attitude as a whole. As soon as I saw the baiting 'calm down' I knew what was coming. This kind of bias shed should make us all more determined to get rid of Roy.  The club would have to bow to customer pressure in the end.  The man is H&G's last gasp. He needs to go. And when he does, don't expect compliments from this rag.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2010, 01:54:25 PM
Great post TES. I stopped reading the Guardian because its anti-Liverpool bias was turning my stomach on too regular a basis.  This article is a scandalous indictment of the paper's attitude as a whole. As soon as I saw the baiting 'calm down' I knew what was coming. This kind of bias s*** should make us all more determined to get rid of Roy.  The club would have to bow to customer pressure in the end.  The man is H&G's last gasp. He needs to go. And when he does, don't expect compliments from this rag.

It's the differing standards by which Hodgson and Benitez are measured. The only 3 transfers that can truly be credited to Hodgson are Konchesky, Paulsen and Brad Jones. Yet not a word is said about the appalling standard of players he brought in. Yes, Benitez's last two Summer windows were also shocking and many of us on here stated we no longer trusted him in the transfer market.
Whilst Rafa was flamed for rotation (he's not unique amongst top managers with teams challenging on several fronts) and zonal marking, Hodgson's negative small team tactics pass without a comment being made. Then again, how many journos really understand what they are seeing when watching a football match unfold?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 28, 2010, 02:44:12 PM
Three points from Henry Winter's article jumped out at me...


So he's seeing what we're seeing. Too cautious away from home and still thinking like the manager of a small club. How soon his atitude changes to a manager of a big club is crucial to our wellbeing. I just hope that if we do win the baord won't take the attitude that we're okay until the summer. Injuries, or the lack of them, make all the difference when you have a big squad like Spurs.

How timely is that board meeting. If we lose today it will be painfully obvious the team needs strengthening in January. Hopefully the list of targets will contain some high-quality strikers as Torres needs a partner quickly.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2010, 03:53:07 PM
It's the differing standards by which Hodgson and Benitez are measured. The only 3 transfers that can truly be credited to Hodgson are Konchesky, Paulsen and Brad Jones. Yet not a word is said about the appalling standard of players he brought in.

exactly Tes.  I have been meaning to post about this issue these past few weeks.  These new players we brought in this past summer are average at best, and in some cases pretty dire.  They are not Liverpool class by any stretch.  If Rafa had done this, (or Houllier), he'd be roasted by the usual hacks in the media.   I wish someone would have the guts to raise this with them, in interviews or chat shows (that analysis show on Sky on a Sunday morning).

The little englanders/racists need to be challenged. 


  • He must, though, buy players good enough for Liverpool, not good enough for Fulham.
  • A good manager, Hodgson just needs to be more positive in word and strategy. Certain results, like the defeat of Chelsea, show his ability.

henry winter is spot on ASI, re the need to bring in Liverpool-class players.........but I don't agree with him when he says that Roy just needs to be more positive.  I don't think a snake can change it's stripes.....and it isn't fair to ask.   Roy has got to where he is (in his career), playing a certain type of football.  He cannot be expected to radically chnage hos outlooks.beliefs now....certainly not at his age.

We need a new man.

Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2010, 06:11:28 PM
    We need a new man.
Over to you, Mr Henry. [/list]
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2010, 11:09:00 AM
Excellent piece on Hodgson here:

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2010/11/mid-table-mindset-mid-table-position/ (http://www.thisisanfield.com/2010/11/mid-table-mindset-mid-table-position/)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2010, 12:12:41 PM
good article.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 29, 2010, 12:41:23 PM
Good article and he picked up on the same thing as me. Why when Ngog came off did Babel not get used? Roy promised to give him a chance and has failed to do so. Against tiring legs Babel would have made a real nuisance of himself.

If I was the owner I would get Roy out this week and offer Anchilotti a deal. Then give him £30M to spend in January.

Gerard Houllier was sacked despite getting Liverpool to 4th in 2004 because the club felt he was not improving the team quick enough. Different reasons why Roy should go - inability to have a superiority complex. A certain level of arrogance is required and I'm afraid he has none.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on November 29, 2010, 04:13:59 PM
Great article that, top post. It means nothing if the owners don't know what they are doing (yet).  Can't see Roy being ousted until summer at the earliest and maybe not even then.  I am not convinced the owners are  truly here to compete for the top post, or at least are prepared to be very patient about it. In which case they have a good manager. He steadied the ship alright. Now its settled on the bottom ;)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2010, 08:00:25 PM
Different reasons why Roy should go - inability to have a superiority complex. A certain level of arrogance is required and I'm afraid he has none.

I'd settle for him losing the inferiority complex and instilling some belief.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on November 29, 2010, 08:24:32 PM
I'd settle for him losing the inferiority complex and instilling some belief.
Agreed.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 02, 2010, 07:32:24 PM
Under Roy we've at least found consistancy:

5 points from our first 5 games.
7 points from our next 5 games.
7 points from our last 5 games.


 :'(
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on December 02, 2010, 10:31:22 PM
Under Roy we've at least found consistancy:

5 points from our first 5 games.
7 points from our next 5 games.
7 points from our last 5 games.


 :'(

jeez thats ugly reading  :'(
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 05, 2010, 02:52:03 PM
Mutual respect for mediocrity spawned this fine bromance

Sunday December 05 2010


We've all had enough pain. We've all had enough misery and dissembling. But the next 24 hours will bring more, although it will be disguised as a heart-warming story of friends re-united. Gerard Houllier returns to Anfield tomorrow and he will be met there by his great friend Roy Hodgson.

If you had Roy Hodgson's away record, you too would have many friends in football. Since August 2009, Hodgson has won two league matches away from home, so it is no surprise he is greeted warmly wherever he goes.

Hodgson, as he repeatedly reminds people, may be one of the game's most respected figures, but when he walks through the front door of a football club, he is also a walking, talking three points for the home side. All that is left is to choose the wine. They spend a lot of time talking abut wine.

Instead of points, he accumulates friends, who tell him how well he's doing in his latest job, the management of the decline of Liverpool.

He will be emboldened by the words from his great friend Houllier, who returns to Anfield, despite never really having left. From afar, he guided Liverpool to victory in the Champions League in Istanbul. It was his side, a side containing Djimi Traore, that won the European Cup. At the UEFA conferences where he sees his friends or when he sits down with a journalist, Houllier tells them this and they nod sagely. It is a version of the truth. Signing Djimi Traore was Houllier's achievement. Winning the European Cup with Djimi Traore was Rafael Benitez's.

These stories of managerial bonhomie are not complete without mention of the "good bottle of red" that one has decanted for another. The mistrust of a*sene Wenger by many stems from the fact that Wenger, though clearly French, eschews the good bottle of red.

There will be more talk of red wine in the build-up to tomorrow's game than during a Keith Floyd show where he is cooking coq au vin with red wine gravy followed by a red wine tapioca pudding.

They are both friends with Alex Ferguson too. Ferguson has acquired many friends in football, but he has rarely shown up at a football ground without considering if he could build a lifelong grudge around the presence of some enemy in the vicinity.

Hodgson last week described Liverpool's draw in the FA Cup with United as "sad". There are eight members of the team that won 4-1 at Old Trafford still in Liverpool's squad. Hodgson will be able to pick on seven of them and the painful decline of Jamie Carragher means he will not miss the eighth.

If Liverpool have disintegrated since that time, Manchester United have got no better. Hodgson's sadness was over the meeting of two big teams in the third round, but there was the underlying sadness as he jokes about putting on his make-up for live TV that, once again, his real record would be scrutinised and exposed.

He is just a patsy. Most of those who appointed him are no longer employed at Anfield but yet he must muddle on.

Many of his supporters in the media castigate Liverpool fans for abandoning their principles and not showing the patience they have traditionally granted previous managers. This, they will claim, is a reflection, of our impatient times with its demand for instant gratification (my problem with instant gratification is that it takes too long).

Yet Liverpool fans were pretty patient with Benitez and that was six months ago. It may not be the times that have changed just the credentials of the incumbent.

Hodgson's supporters still point to his record, highlighting in all seriousness his exploits at Fulham. There is no real success. Hodgson has never won a league title outside Scandinavia.

His methods, as he put it himself, "have translated from Halmstads to Malmo, to Orebo to Neuchatel Xamax, to the Swiss national team".

Liverpool fans are not showing impatience with Hodgson, they are voicing their feeling that he was the wrong appointment for a club that demands more than going a year without an away win and nobody noticing.

It could be that those who praised Hodgson so highly weren't really paying attention. It was easy to praise a friendly and welcoming manager while he was at Fulham. It was easy, even if he was going from one end of the season to the next without winning away from home to talk about his exploits.

One journalist recently wrote a piece defending Hodgson (guess what? He needs time). Liverpool fans were criticised for chanting Kenny Dalglish's name and the writer wondered if maybe Liverpool fans should get Dalglish just to see how they would react if it was a Dalglish side that lost at home to Northampton, went into the bottom three or lost at Stoke.

It was Hodgson who did this but it seems it is always somebody else's problem.

Usually, it is Benitez's. Last week's news that Liverpool incurred £9m in agents' fees thanks solely to Benitez was another example. This cost came about "tackling the legacy of the previous regime" as it was widely reported.

Hodgson arrived saying Liverpool were over-staffed and then recruited Konchesky, Poulsen and Joe Cole while letting some young talent go and releasing a finally fit Alberto Aquilani on loan.

The reality is that Hodgson has discovered that Liverpool is a club apart, uninterested in the soothing words from the media.

"Everyone I know in football respects the job I'm doing here and aren't too surprised it hasn't been an easy start," he said last week as he anticipated a meeting with another old friend, Harry Redknapp, before reminding people that Jose Mourinho had said Liverpool will get "worse and worse". Hodgson left White Hart Lane pointless and characteristically fatalistic, even after a good bottle of red.

Tomorrow promises more warmth and conviviality. Hodgson and Houllier will talk about their mutual respect and reflect on their great gifts of survival, skipping over their exploits which have earned them such admiration from their many friends in football.

A draw would be the most fitting demonstration of this great bromance.



http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/mutual-respect-for-mediocrity-spawned-this-fine-bromance-2448861.html

I wonder if Dion Fanning wasn't invited to the 'all things wonderful are English' journalists club because he writes for the Irish Independant.

It's hard yet again to disagree with him.

Points are something Roy definately struggles with, whether they are away from home or even written ones.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on December 05, 2010, 03:49:43 PM
very good article.

and all the points made are good ones.

roy is beaten before he starts....he is so fatalistic and so accepting of mediocrity.

you'd hate to be struggling out of your trench, and going over the top in a war, with woy beside you.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Clem on December 05, 2010, 05:13:07 PM
Mutual respect for mediocrity spawned this fine bromance

Sunday December 05 2010


We've all had enough pain. We've all had enough misery and dissembling. But the next 24 hours will bring more, although it will be disguised as a heart-warming story of friends re-united. Gerard Houllier returns to Anfield tomorrow and he will be met there by his great friend Roy Hodgson.

If you had Roy Hodgson's away record, you too would have many friends in football. Since August 2009, Hodgson has won two league matches away from home, so it is no surprise he is greeted warmly wherever he goes.

Hodgson, as he repeatedly reminds people, may be one of the game's most respected figures, but when he walks through the front door of a football club, he is also a walking, talking three points for the home side. All that is left is to choose the wine. They spend a lot of time talking abut wine.

Instead of points, he accumulates friends, who tell him how well he's doing in his latest job, the management of the decline of Liverpool.

He will be emboldened by the words from his great friend Houllier, who returns to Anfield, despite never really having left. From afar, he guided Liverpool to victory in the Champions League in Istanbul. It was his side, a side containing Djimi Traore, that won the European Cup. At the UEFA conferences where he sees his friends or when he sits down with a journalist, Houllier tells them this and they nod sagely. It is a version of the truth. Signing Djimi Traore was Houllier's achievement. Winning the European Cup with Djimi Traore was Rafael Benitez's.

These stories of managerial bonhomie are not complete without mention of the "good bottle of red" that one has decanted for another. The mistrust of a*sene Wenger by many stems from the fact that Wenger, though clearly French, eschews the good bottle of red.

There will be more talk of red wine in the build-up to tomorrow's game than during a Keith Floyd show where he is cooking coq au vin with red wine gravy followed by a red wine tapioca pudding.

They are both friends with Alex Ferguson too. Ferguson has acquired many friends in football, but he has rarely shown up at a football ground without considering if he could build a lifelong grudge around the presence of some enemy in the vicinity.

Hodgson last week described Liverpool's draw in the FA Cup with United as "sad". There are eight members of the team that won 4-1 at Old Trafford still in Liverpool's squad. Hodgson will be able to pick on seven of them and the painful decline of Jamie Carragher means he will not miss the eighth.

If Liverpool have disintegrated since that time, Manchester United have got no better. Hodgson's sadness was over the meeting of two big teams in the third round, but there was the underlying sadness as he jokes about putting on his make-up for live TV that, once again, his real record would be scrutinised and exposed.

He is just a patsy. Most of those who appointed him are no longer employed at Anfield but yet he must muddle on.

Many of his supporters in the media castigate Liverpool fans for abandoning their principles and not showing the patience they have traditionally granted previous managers. This, they will claim, is a reflection, of our impatient times with its demand for instant gratification (my problem with instant gratification is that it takes too long).

Yet Liverpool fans were pretty patient with Benitez and that was six months ago. It may not be the times that have changed just the credentials of the incumbent.

Hodgson's supporters still point to his record, highlighting in all seriousness his exploits at Fulham. There is no real success. Hodgson has never won a league title outside Scandinavia.

His methods, as he put it himself, "have translated from Halmstads to Malmo, to Orebo to Neuchatel Xamax, to the Swiss national team".

Liverpool fans are not showing impatience with Hodgson, they are voicing their feeling that he was the wrong appointment for a club that demands more than going a year without an away win and nobody noticing.

It could be that those who praised Hodgson so highly weren't really paying attention. It was easy to praise a friendly and welcoming manager while he was at Fulham. It was easy, even if he was going from one end of the season to the next without winning away from home to talk about his exploits.

One journalist recently wrote a piece defending Hodgson (guess what? He needs time). Liverpool fans were criticised for chanting Kenny Dalglish's name and the writer wondered if maybe Liverpool fans should get Dalglish just to see how they would react if it was a Dalglish side that lost at home to Northampton, went into the bottom three or lost at Stoke.

It was Hodgson who did this but it seems it is always somebody else's problem.

Usually, it is Benitez's. Last week's news that Liverpool incurred £9m in agents' fees thanks solely to Benitez was another example. This cost came about "tackling the legacy of the previous regime" as it was widely reported.

Hodgson arrived saying Liverpool were over-staffed and then recruited Konchesky, Poulsen and Joe Cole while letting some young talent go and releasing a finally fit Alberto Aquilani on loan.

The reality is that Hodgson has discovered that Liverpool is a club apart, uninterested in the soothing words from the media.

"Everyone I know in football respects the job I'm doing here and aren't too surprised it hasn't been an easy start," he said last week as he anticipated a meeting with another old friend, Harry Redknapp, before reminding people that Jose Mourinho had said Liverpool will get "worse and worse". Hodgson left White Hart Lane pointless and characteristically fatalistic, even after a good bottle of red.

Tomorrow promises more warmth and conviviality. Hodgson and Houllier will talk about their mutual respect and reflect on their great gifts of survival, skipping over their exploits which have earned them such admiration from their many friends in football.

A draw would be the most fitting demonstration of this great bromance.



http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/mutual-respect-for-mediocrity-spawned-this-fine-bromance-2448861.html

I wonder if Dion Fanning wasn't invited to the 'all things wonderful are English' journalists club because he writes for the Irish Independant.

It's hard yet again to disagree with him.

Points are something Roy definately struggles with, whether they are away from home or even written ones.

awesome piece Tes.  We won't see its like in our Independent though. I'm past blaming anyone other than Henry now. That Hodgson is still here, and were still mid-table non-entities as Christmas approaches ,reflects on him and him alone.
He is the only person able to help the club, and he hasn't got a scooby how to do it. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on December 05, 2010, 07:01:58 PM
you'd hate to be struggling out of your trench, and going over the top in a war, with woy beside you.

we'd let him go....i don't think he'd notice as he ambled over the open ground because he'd be too busy thinking of the next glass of red wine with fergie...like the forlorn hope, we'd watch as he struggled up the large bank of enemy defences while he wondered what the whistling wind was going past his head every now and again...he wouldn't make it of course, but for the first time in his life he would have created a moment of inspiration for the troops left behind...Huzzah! unleash the dogs of war...

Much like his inevitable demise from our club...tis only a matter of time...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 05, 2010, 08:36:40 PM
I'm past blaming anyone other than Henry now. That Hodgson is still here, and were still mid-table non-entities as Christmas approaches ,reflects on him and him alone.
He is the only person able to help the club, and he hasn't got a scooby how to do it.

What's worrying me, Clem, is that whilst he's taking stock and taking time trying to get the right appointments in place, weeks are slipping by, points are being dropped and the likelihood of us getting back into the CL next season recedes. That one act will see us lose probably at least two of the players you would be looking to build a team around and set us back a further two seasons.
A failure to break the top four this season could mean probably three seasons minimum before that could possibly happen, unless the Mancs or Chelsea start to plummit through lack of investment.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 05, 2010, 09:17:34 PM

Hodgson: You'd be mad to sack my mate Houllier


Published 23:00 04/12/10 By Anthony Clavane




Roy Hodgson insists Liverpool owe Gerard Houllier a great deal – and has called on Aston Villa fans to give their boss more time to turn their season around.

It will be an emotional homecoming for Houllier at Anfield tomorrow night as the Reds welcome back the man who landed them six trophies.

Hodgson, who took over from the Frenchman’s ­successor Rafa Benitez, knows the Kop will give Houllier a warm reception.

The Midlanders visit ­Liverpool on the back of a terrible run which has seen them win only two and lose six of their last 11 games.


But although they have lost their last three games - including Wednesday’s ­defeat at Birmingham in the Carling Cup quarter-final - Hodgson is convinced his old friend will revive Villa’s fortunes.

“Gerard did a good job at Liverpool,” he said. “There’s no question about that. He is a good manager.

“He might not have hit the ground running, but he will do his best to make Villa a much better club. I’m convinced he’ll succeed.

“It seems these days it’s all about calls for managers to be axed. It will be easier to list this season a manager who has not supposedly been on his way out than those of us who are, supposedly, on our way out.” The two men are close friends, getting to know each other while serving on UEFA and FIFA technical committees.

After winning six trophies, Houllier felt he was building a legacy on Merseyside and has expressed his irritation at the way he left the club in 2004.

Hodgson said: ­“Gerard and I have been friends for many years. I will have a glass of wine with him after the game.

“He’ll be desperate to beat my Liverpool team just as I’ll be desperate to beat his Aston Villa team. But whatever happens it won’t affect our friendship.

“I know from my many conversations with him that he really enjoyed his time at Liverpool. He still has a lot of affection for the club. There is no bitterness or animosity at all.

“There is high expectation at Villa just as there is high ­expectation at Liverpool. But he knew that when he took the job. Just like I knew that when I took this job.”

Hodgson himself has been under fire from a section of Liverpool fans.

But on Wednesday night he guided his side into the ­knockout stages of the Europa League with a 1-1 draw at Steuau Bucharest and now feels the club have turned the corner.

“We started the season so badly,” he said. “Now our ­position is a lot healthier but we are still in the throes of laying a foundation.

“I’m just hoping that after 19 games we will be in the top half of the table with a platform to enable us to do a little bit better in the second half of the season.”

And Liverpool legend Ray Clemence has made a plea for fans to give Hodgson a chance.

“The fans should be ­patient,” said Clemence. “There should be no knee-jerk reactions. There are ­supposedly calls for Kenny ­Dalglish, but I haven’t heard them.

“It takes time to change things at a club. A new manager needs time to make his mark.”


http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-boss-Roy-Hodgson-says-Aston-Villa-would-be-mad-to-sack-his-mate-Gerard-Houllier-article644019.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-boss-Roy-Hodgson-says-Aston-Villa-would-be-mad-to-sack-his-mate-Gerard-Houllier-article644019.html)

“I’m just hoping that after 19 games we will be in the top half of the table with a platform to enable us to do a little bit better in the second half of the season.”

That's a new low even for our manager. That's probably the most depressing thing I've ever heard from a Liverpool manager.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on December 05, 2010, 09:28:48 PM
we'd let him go....i don't think he'd notice as he ambled over the open ground because he'd be too busy thinking of the next glass of red wine with fergie...like the forlorn hope, we'd watch as he struggled up the large bank of enemy defences while he wondered what the whistling wind was going past his head every now and again...he wouldn't make it of course, but for the first time in his life he would have created a moment of inspiration for the troops left behind...Huzzah! unleash the dogs of war...


 :D

I can see roy now....in his world war one soldier uniform, looking up from his trench.

fatalistic - "It's sad.  What is the point.  There is no hope.  The Germans are too strong."

inspirational - "you go first and see what it's like, kiddo"

tactically poor - "I'll stick my head up and see what Gerry is up to up to"



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 05, 2010, 09:51:04 PM

 :D

I can see roy now....in his world war one soldier uniform, looking up from his trench.

fatalistic - "It's sad.  What is the point.  There is no hope.  The Germans are too strong."

inspirational - "you go first and see what it's like, kiddo"

tactically poor - "I'll stick my head up and see what Gerry is up to up to"

He'd dig into his inside pocket, remove a beer stein and head off to share a bevy with his mates Franz and Karl-Heinz.

I bet it was him who organised the footie on Christmas Day in 1915 and was 'sad' when we scored.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on December 05, 2010, 10:24:11 PM
He'd dig into his inside pocket, remove a beer stein and head off to share a bevy with his mates Franz and Karl-Heinz.

I bet it was him who organised the footie on Christmas Day in 1915 and was 'sad' when we scored.

yes, it's bad form old boy to score - and potentially make our adverseries sad.

much better to play the game, what.

winning is for losers.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on December 05, 2010, 10:36:56 PM
Under Roy we've at least found consistancy:

5 points from our first 5 games.
7 points from our next 5 games.
7 points from our last 5 games.


 :'(

Wow we are nailed on to finish 12th  ;)
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on December 05, 2010, 10:53:23 PM
Cheers Tes, super piece from Dion Fanning.

Unfortunately we will have to put up with mediocrity for a while longer by the looks. I don't know what Henry is waiting for but in my opinion he is definitely waiting for something. Whether its a chance to brush up on all things football or whether hes being advised to bide his time, the guy is definitely formulating some sort of plan. And while he does that we get look look at and listen to all things Roy.

About 6 weeks ago I didnt fancy the thoughts of Rijkarrd becoming boss. As the season progresses I'd hire him in a heart beat.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on December 05, 2010, 10:58:35 PM
Touching on what Fanning was saying about Houllier, the more and more Houllier speaks about his time at Liverpool and credits himself for the night in Istanbul the more my respect for Houllier wanes. I supported Houllier until the end but I did want him to leave. Hes now looking back on his final few years with rose tinted glasses. As for Carragher, I was very surprised he came out and praised Houllier as he did recently. It wasnt the praise but more the way he seemed to undermine benitez by calling Houllier the best manager that he ever worked for. Lets face it Houllier brought us so far but Rafa instilled a tactical sharpness on the team that was never there under Houllier.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 05, 2010, 11:31:48 PM
About 6 weeks ago I didnt fancy the thoughts of Rijkarrd becoming boss. As the season progresses I'd hire him in a heart beat.

Juan, it's funny you saying that, I was thinking the same the other day when thinking about who was available now or who may be available in the Summer and if that was why Henry & Co appeared to be waiting and who could they be waiting for. Just the thought of us playing a more progressive style and one that increases the chances of winning 3 points or at least positively sets out to, as opposed to settling for 1, made Rijkarrd actually appear appealing, where previously I'd had doubts about him.

It's just that the cloud of the Toxics has been lifted and at least financially we're not going to go bust, but it's been replaced by another cloud, and one that feels like in footballing terms we're on the edge of the abyss. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on December 06, 2010, 10:48:47 AM
yes, it's bad form old boy to score - and potentially make our adverseries sad.
much better to play the game, what.
winning is for losers.

with apologies to a certain Lord Tennyson

'Someone had blunder'd: (Hodgson)
Theirs not to make reply, (Put that white round thing in the opposition net? Whatever next?)
Theirs not to reason why, (Defend men! Even when the opposition defend! Just in case, there's a sneak attack!)
Theirs but to do and die:' (No 3 points even in a winning position, the most important thing to do, is bring on even more defensive minded players instead of hungry, fresh and attack minded players who might sour the wine tasting festivities afterwards)


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on December 06, 2010, 10:50:19 AM

“I’m just hoping that after 19 games we will be in the top half of the table with a platform to enable us to do a little bit better in the second half of the season.”

That's a new low even for our manager. That's probably the most depressing thing I've ever heard from a Liverpool manager.

Isn't this quote just a sackable offence?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 06, 2010, 12:00:53 PM
Isn't this quote just a sackable offence?

Paraphrased as: 'If we can be tenth after 19 games, maybe we can end the season reaching as high as 9th or even 8th. Afterall, we finished 12th last season and it would therefore represent a huge improvement and justify my claims that my methods, which are universally respected throughout the world of football, as I am, are the only way to achieve success.'

Roy Hodgson, Fulham manager, 6th December 2010.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on December 06, 2010, 01:05:09 PM
Paraphrased as: 'If we can be tenth after 19 games, maybe we can end the season reaching as high as 9th or even 8th. Afterall, we finished 12th last season and it would therefore represent a huge improvement and justify my claims that my methods, which are universally respected throughout the world of football, as I am, are the only way to achieve success.'

Roy Hodgson, Fulham manager, 6th December 2010.

Ok, you got me, now i'm scared...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on December 06, 2010, 03:51:09 PM
Newcastle have sacked Chris Houghton.

Very very harsh decision and their managerial merrygoround continues. The only problem with Houghton is that he isnt high profile enough for them. Where else does Mike Ashley expect Newcastle to be in the table, challenging for the Champions league places. I hope Ashley learns a tough lesson and they spiral to the relegation zone.

All that said and with the risk of sounding completely hypocritical I find it interesting that a club that has just being promoted sacks their manager because they are 11th in the table yet Liverpool continue to stand by theirs even though they are meant to have an established premier league team with 3 world class players but are a place lower in the league. I dont want to turn into Newcastle but as Shanks once said "Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor".

Hodgsons in the basement rearranging furniture  ???
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 06, 2010, 06:54:12 PM
Newcastle have sacked Chris Houghton.

Very very harsh decision and their managerial merrygoround continues. The only problem with Houghton is that he isnt high profile enough for them. Where else does Mike Ashley expect Newcastle to be in the table, challenging for the Champions league places. I hope Ashley learns a tough lesson and they spiral to the relegation zone.

All that said and with the risk of sounding completely hypocritical I find it interesting that a club that has just being promoted sacks their manager because they are 11th in the table yet Liverpool continue to stand by theirs even though they are meant to have an established premier league team with 3 world class players but are a place lower in the league. I dont want to turn into Newcastle but as Shanks once said "Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor".

Hodgsons in the basement rearranging furniture  ???

Crazy. He got them straight back up, no mean achievement in itself, and are well on the way to re-establishing them comfortably within the league.

7th was rightly regarded as a terrible season but if Roy remains, it'll be one we'd like to swop this one for.

As for being in the basement. He'd get vertigo, so he's digging a below ground two storey extension so he can finally feel at home and settled back in 'his' comfort zone.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on December 09, 2010, 04:35:25 PM
not been around much for a few days.......meant to reply to Juan's big post (one that originbally got lost when he tried to post it).  Unable to see it.....can't recall the thread it was in.

anyroads, my take on Woy.

I like Woy's positive football.  At Anfield his team presses and is pleasing on the eye.

However, the problem for Woy is that when the chips are down, he is very limited, tactically. 

This is very obvious away from home.  When he has to make changes, he is stuck.  There is no plan b.  There is no good use of subs.  He always ends up reacting too late.  As opposed to being proactive.

Spurs was a case in point.  A top manager would have went on and won that game.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 09, 2010, 10:06:25 PM
Roy's now got himself in a muddle of Lucas' new contract:


Lucas in line for new deal

Last updated: 9th December 2010   


Liverpool are planning to offer midfielder Lucas Leiva a new contract at Anfield.

The Brazil international's future at Liverpool has been the subject of speculation for some time with the player failing to win over some of the club's fans.

However, Lucas has arguably enjoyed his best vein of form for the club in recent weeks since joining from Gremio in the summer of 2007.

Reds boss Roy Hodgson has now revealed the club plan to sit down and hold talks with Lucas over a contract extension.

"A couple of weeks ago Damien Comolli (director of football strategy) mentioned to me about him wanting to get in touch with Lucas's agent to discuss a new contract, but I can't quite frankly remember where we are," said Hodgson.

"Certainly if you ask me the question 'is Lucas welcome at the club and would we like to keep him?' then the answer is a resounding 'yes'."



http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12874_6563918,00.html (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12874_6563918,00.html)

 ::) Simply state that we're looking to negotiate a new deal with Lucas. Too honest or the beginnings of something more worrying?
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on December 10, 2010, 12:00:15 PM
not been around much for a few days.......meant to reply to Juan's big post (one that originbally got lost when he tried to post it).  Unable to see it.....can't recall the thread it was in.

anyroads, my take on Woy.

I like Woy's positive football.  At Anfield his team presses and is pleasing on the eye.

However, the problem for Woy is that when the chips are down, he is very limited, tactically. 

This is very obvious away from home.  When he has to make changes, he is stuck.  There is no plan b.  There is no good use of subs.  He always ends up reacting too late.  As opposed to being proactive.

Spurs was a case in point.  A top manager would have went on and won that game.

All very true dude.

In fairness to Roy I think he is starting to show that playing at home isnt a problem, or is less of a problem than the likes of the game against Blackpool suggested anyway. I wont get carried away with the home performances just yet. As Roy proved at Fulham a team can have a great home record without being able to string two wins together all season on the road. At Fulham in alot of ways a very bad away record is acceptable when you produce at home.  But Liverpool is a massive step up from Fulham. Away results are crucial if a team is going to compete. But again competing is the lowest expectation for the fans at LFC, competing should be a given, Roy has to win to be a success.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on December 10, 2010, 12:06:08 PM
I dont think Roy got the memo on Glen Johnson being played in midfield because even Glen Johnson seems to be up for it.

Its a no brainer. Sometimes I think managers dont want to be seen caving in to media or fan pressure so no matter how good an idea may be they wont give it a chance.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/liverpool-fc/2010/12/10/glen-johnson-i-could-be-liverpool-fc-s-gareth-bale-55578-27800917/

GLEN JOHNSON reaches a Liverpool landmark tomorrow – while admitting he would be open to becoming Anfield's version of Gareth Bale.

Johnson is expected to make his 50th appearance for the club when Roy Hodgson's side travel to Newcastle United aiming for back-to-back Premier League wins.

The England international continued his return to form by playing a part in the 3-0 win over Aston Villa on Monday night that moved Liverpool up to eighth place.

Johnson has been much improved since overcoming a succession of injury problems in recent months that ruled him out of six games and had hampered his play earlier in the campaign.

Now the defender is determined to remain on an upward curve and celebrate his half-century with three points.

“It's fantastic to reach milestones in your career,” said Johnson. “That is what most players look for and those are the things you're proud of.

“I'm playing better now than I was at the start of the season. I know that and I always know how well I'm playing. I've picked things up a little bit now but the team's the most important thing.

“If you always knew exactly what it was you'd never have a bad game, but we didn't have a long rest in the summer, then we came back and I got loads of niggling injuries.

“It was hard to get a run in the team and get that consistency every week. Touch wood the injuries are now behind me.”

Bale has earned rave reviews this season having been transformed from a left-back to a left-winger at Tottenham Hotspur, although he was largely subdued by Johnson during Liverpool's trip to White Hart Lane last month.

The Anfield man shares the strong attacking attributes of his Welsh counterpart, and would be willing to move further up the right flank should he be asked.

“I'd be happy to play anywhere,” said Johnson. “It's obviously the manager's decision where I am selected to play. Wherever that is I'd be happy. I've played a few times as a winger before.”

Should Hodgson be tempted to accommodate such a move, Johnson believes there would be no problem filling the vacant right-back slot.

The England man has be impressed by the emergence of Martin Kelly, whose consistency in 12 outings this season earned him a new contract last week.

And Johnson is confident the youngster could follow his lead and represent his country.

“He's a good player, and a nice boy as well,” said Johnson. “He wants to learn and he works hard. I think he'll be a good player for Liverpool.

“He's a good defender. I can definitely see him playing for England one day.”

Tomorrow's trip to the North East is the first of six Premier League games in the next three-and-a-half weeks that are likely to shape the remainder of Liverpool's campaign.

And although seven points adrift of fourth-placed Manchester City, Johnson reckons Hodgson's men could yet make a charge for the Champions League qualification places.

“We've got some fantastic players, great staff in and around the club, and I'm sure if we can keep playing like we are we'll be there or thereabouts,” said the 26-year-old.

Hodgson, meanwhile, has dismissed suggestions that he may choose to cash in on Johnson in next month's transfer window with Juventus leading a number of potential suitors.

“Agents. You don't have to look very far these days,” said the Liverpool manager. “As far as I am concerned Glen Johnson will be a Liverpool player certainly until the end of his contract and possibly beyond it.”
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 10, 2010, 03:57:58 PM
I dont think Roy got the memo on Glen Johnson being played in midfield because even Glen Johnson seems to be up for it.

Its a no brainer. Sometimes I think managers dont want to be seen caving in to media or fan pressure so no matter how good an idea may be they wont give it a chance.



It really does make you wonder. The same things were being said about Bale, but Rednapp's used his common sense. As for managers not wanting to be seen as caving in, it just shows a weakness in their character. If someone suggests something they should always be open to taking it on board for the good of the team, and ultimately, their job.
In reality it shouldn't take the media or fans to point this out. You'd hope the manager and his coaching staff would see these things and then act on them.
It could even be dressed up as giving Kelly more 1st team experience if Roy's pride is such a big deal to him (and I'm not suggesting that's the case). Now even Johnson's floated the idea, surely with the games we have coming up, there should be an opportunity or six to try it over a period of games.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on December 10, 2010, 09:11:02 PM
All very true dude.

In fairness to Roy I think he is starting to show that playing at home isnt a problem, or is less of a problem than the likes of the game against Blackpool suggested anyway. I wont get carried away with the home performances just yet. As Roy proved at Fulham a team can have a great home record without being able to string two wins together all season on the road. At Fulham in alot of ways a very bad away record is acceptable when you produce at home.  But Liverpool is a massive step up from Fulham. Away results are crucial if a team is going to compete. But again competing is the lowest expectation for the fans at LFC, competing should be a given, Roy has to win to be a success.

agreed, Juan.

Liverpool is a massive step up (from Fulham).  Winning away is a key requirement, every other away game or so (if one is to push for league titles).

Roy has never had that ability, across his career.

It's unfair of us to start expecting a bloke almost about to draw his pension, to change his spots now.


Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 10, 2010, 10:15:20 PM
Liverpool is a massive step up (from Fulham).  Winning away is a key requirement, every other away game or so (if one is to push for league titles).

Roy has never had that ability, across his career.

It's unfair of us to start expecting a bloke almost about to draw his pension, to change his spots now.

Dude / Juan,

Do you blame Roy for us losing at Spurs or do you blame the abysmal finishing of Torres and Maxi? I blame the players who should have had the game in the bag by the 50th minute. I don't see how you could blame Roy for the poor finishing of the players. Even if he had substituted Torres with Babel (and how would that have gone down here) where is the guarantee we would have won the game?

I was as critical of him as you earlier this season but I think he's starting to turn things around but seems to be getting little credit for it. Monday's game against Villa was a great result but seems to have attracted very little praise.

And I have to say I'm disappointed in Tes's avatar which appears to mock the Liverpool manager. I thought we would be above such things. It's something I might expect of a bluenose or manc. If it's not Roy then I take it all back.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: the dude abides on December 10, 2010, 10:57:26 PM
Dude / Juan,

Do you blame Roy for us losing at Spurs or do you blame the abysmal finishing of Torres and Maxi? I blame the players who should have had the game in the bag by the 50th minute. I don't see how you could blame Roy for the poor finishing of the players. Even if he had substituted Torres with Babel (and how would that have gone down here) where is the guarantee we would have won the game?

I was as critical of him as you earlier this season but I think he's starting to turn things around but seems to be getting little credit for it. Monday's game against Villa was a great result but seems to have attracted very little praise.

but the problem isn't home games, ASI.  It's away games.

The Spurs result could, in any other context, be put down to bad luck.  But away from home, Roy has never seemed to have any luck, across his entire career.  Given the data, it's pretty easy to conclude that he just does not cut the mustard on his travels.  And if you can only win one or two away games each season, you will never challenge for any titles.  Not up to what Liverpool standard.

As for Torres.......way overrated in my opinion.   His ego and attitude needs much work upon.



Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on December 10, 2010, 11:52:54 PM
Dude / Juan,

Do you blame Roy for us losing at Spurs or do you blame the abysmal finishing of Torres and Maxi? I blame the players who should have had the game in the bag by the 50th minute. I don't see how you could blame Roy for the poor finishing of the players. Even if he had substituted Torres with Babel (and how would that have gone down here) where is the guarantee we would have won the game?

I was as critical of him as you earlier this season but I think he's starting to turn things around but seems to be getting little credit for it. Monday's game against Villa was a great result but seems to have attracted very little praise.

And I have to say I'm disappointed in Tes's avatar which appears to mock the Liverpool manager. I thought we would be above such things. It's something I might expect of a bluenose or manc. If it's not Roy then I take it all back.

In fairness ASI I have been very critical of Roy for what seems like two seasons now even though its on a matter of months but I do accept and have said that I think he has turned the home form around.

With regards the game away to Spurs I suggested before hand the players would up their games because it was a bigger team we were playing and to be honest for me that judgment still could be proved true. But Spurs aside ASI Stoke, Wigan, everton etc etc etc all the way back to Man City our away form has been nothing short of abysmal. Not necessarily the results but the performances too. We are slowly getting to see that Roy is capable of putting a team together with the ability of beating anyone at home. Thats worthless unless he can coach the players to put in those similar types of performances on the road.

Roy is undoubtedly answering critics again but if we were to go and lose again tomorrow or play horrendously without taking home some points then the questions about Roys ability as manager will continue to crop up. We would have won the title again long before now under previous managers if the league was decided on our home performances alone. Roy needs to start showing that he is capable of transferring some of those positive home results in to consistent away day victories. If he can start to do that even then his sternest critics wont have much to challenge him on. The problem is there is nothing in Roys career up to now to show hes capable of making that happen.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Tes on December 11, 2010, 12:56:22 AM
And I have to say I'm disappointed in Tes's avatar which appears to mock the Liverpool manager. I thought we would be above such things. It's something I might expect of a bluenose or manc. If it's not Roy then I take it all back.

I've changed my avatar. I wasn't mocking him though I apologise if it caused offence. I have no more faith in him as yet (time willhopefully prove me wrong) as I did have when we were first linked. I simply don't see anything in his 35 year career that gives an indication that he is the man to take us forward or even achieve a top four finish on no more a regulat basis than Everton. His style of football will not bring out the best in our more technical players than Rafa's did. Surely we're looking to improve on the last manager.

ASI, by the end of January we should be able to make a more accurate judgement as to whether two wins against understrength, low on confidence, poor sides and a decent first half performance against a Spurs team who'd play huge games against Arsenal and Inter, us being the third game in 8 days, is the start of progress or a false dawn that gets put in perspective.
Newcastle, Blackpool, Blackburn and Wolves await us in our travels and these teams should all be beatable and hopefully beaten if we are to regard what is happening as any sort of progress.

Those of us who've had and still retain little or no faith in the current manager would like nothing more than to be made to look like know-nothing idiots. We'd be ecstatic idiots as it would mean we've had a successful season either by winning a trophy for the first time in 5 years or by qualifying for the Champions League. 
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 10:12:40 AM
but the problem isn't home games, ASI.  It's away games.
To be fair Dude it was both earlier in the season but our home performance has come on leaps and bounds. The fact that you acknowledge home form isn't a problem shows how much we've improved since the start of the season.

Quote
The Spurs result could, in any other context, be put down to bad luck.  But away from home, Roy has never seemed to have any luck, across his entire career.  Given the data, it's pretty easy to conclude that he just does not cut the mustard on his travels.  And if you can only win one or two away games each season, you will never challenge for any titles.  Not up to what Liverpool standard.
Maybe it's down to the quality of players at his disposal. Luck tends to even itself out over a season whether you're home or away and it's the players who benefit from luck (good and bad) rather than managers. If a shot is deflected and becomes a goal is that the manager's luck or the player's? The latter I would say. If the player who scored that goal was brought on as a sub then you could argue it's the manager's luck but it's a debatable point.

It's clear to me that he's brought a very different style of football to the club that took the players some time to adapt to. I'm sure you can see that as much as me. The mistake by Koncheski that led to Lennon's goal was bad but he'll learn from it and this will probably be his only season at Anfield. A better left back is needed.

Quote
As for Torres.......way overrated in my opinion.   His ego and attitude needs much work upon.
His attitude is odd. That I will agree. But not his skill as was proven against Chelsea.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 10:22:37 AM
In fairness ASI I have been very critical of Roy for what seems like two seasons now even though its on a matter of months but I do accept and have said that I think he has turned the home form around.
Agreed. The style of play now is light-years away from that of a couple of months ago. I think the away form will improve because the players now like the style their playing.

Quote
With regards the game away to Spurs I suggested before hand the players would up their games because it was a bigger team we were playing and to be honest for me that judgment still could be proved true. But Spurs aside ASI Stoke, Wigan, everton etc etc etc all the way back to Man City our away form has been nothing short of abysmal. Not necessarily the results but the performances too. We are slowly getting to see that Roy is capable of putting a team together with the ability of beating anyone at home. Thats worthless unless he can coach the players to put in those similar types of performances on the road.
But as I said to dude, our general form earlier in the season was woeful. We were just unlucky that we played a lot of decent sides so early when he was trying to change the style of football. The fact that he played 2 up front against Spurs showed his intent to win the game. Do you think Rafa would have done that? No.

Quote
Roy is undoubtedly answering critics again but if we were to go and lose again tomorrow or play horrendously without taking home some points then the questions about Roys ability as manager will continue to crop up. We would have won the title again long before now under previous managers if the league was decided on our home performances alone. Roy needs to start showing that he is capable of transferring some of those positive home results in to consistent away day victories. If he can start to do that even then his sternest critics wont have much to challenge him on. The problem is there is nothing in Roys career up to now to show hes capable of making that happen.
I'm certain we'll come away with 1 point and more likely, three. I just don't see the players putting in an abject performance when confidence is high. We were without our two best players plus Jamie against Villa and didn't miss them at all. And those players don't suddenly become bad overnight. Providing the formation is one they're happy with they will go out to win all games. And I just don't see Roy reverting to the style of football we played earlier in the season. Forget what's happened in previous seasons. It counts for nothing. It's what's happening now that matters.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 10:33:32 AM
I've changed my avatar. I wasn't mocking him though I apologise if it caused offence.
Thanks Tes.

Quote
I have no more faith in him as yet (time willhopefully prove me wrong) as I did have when we were first linked. I simply don't see anything in his 35 year career that gives an indication that he is the man to take us forward or even achieve a top four finish on no more a regulat basis than Everton. His style of football will not bring out the best in our more technical players than Rafa's did. Surely we're looking to improve on the last manager.
I'm not saying he's the bees knees either but clearly things have improved and we're playing some decent football. Yes, the sides we beat were not brilliant but that doesn't automatically mean you will play well. But we did. Look at the City game last season. Both sides were abysmal. And that was under a top manager.

Maybe Roy is a later developer! Sometimes you just get a combo of maanger and players that after some gelling time just clicks. Now I'm not saying we're going to win the league but clearly a lot of players have picked up their game this season. Who would have guessed Babel would have played that well on Monday? None of us I bet!

Quote
ASI, by the end of January we should be able to make a more accurate judgement as to whether two wins against understrength, low on confidence, poor sides and a decent first half performance against a Spurs team who'd play huge games against a*senal and Inter, us being the third game in 8 days, is the start of progress or a false dawn that gets put in perspective.
Newcastle, Blackpool, Blackburn and Wolves await us in our travels and these teams should all be beatable and hopefully beaten if we are to regard what is happening as any sort of progress.

Those of us who've had and still retain little or no faith in the current manager would like nothing more than to be made to look like know-nothing idiots. We'd be ecstatic idiots as it would mean we've had a successful season either by winning a trophy for the first time in 5 years or by qualifying for the Champions League. 

I know we'd all love to be proved wrong and for us to achieve a top 4 place when it was never an option at the start of the season. But strange things happen in football. None stranger than what's going on at Chelsea. Who would have guessed that? Footie isn't an exact science and more strange things will happen before the season's end.

But let me end in giving some credit to a man who was considered out of his depth a couple of months ago and who now appears to have started to turn things around. And if we continue to play well then give credit where credit is due.
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Juan on December 11, 2010, 12:12:49 PM
Who would have guessed Babel would have played that well on Monday? None of us I bet!

Just a quick reply ASI to one small point about Babel.

I'm genuinely not surprised Babel played well Monday. I have been very critical of Benitez and now Hodgson for their treatment of the player.

Granted they see him on a day to day basis but it was always clear by his performances that he was not a winger but both Rafa and Roy continued to play him there if he did get any minutes on the pitch.

Roy promised him a run up front before Christmas but had it not been for the birth of Nandos child Babel would most likely have been flogged in January without that chance.

He played in Europe and scored, I thought played well but was then hauled off at half time.

I think alot of people on here have recognised Babels talent, have been frustrated by his performances on the wing but also understood its not his position.

If Roy decided to keep him in the team today because of his performance Monday at the expense of Nando I would not have a problem and I think it would send a great message through the team that if your playing well you will get a shot. It might show the more senior players like Torres and Gerrard that they have to work hard to stay in the team. It will prevent complacency setting in while giving the fringe players a boost.

So much for making a quick point! I'm off to buy a Christmas tree...........
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: barticus on December 11, 2010, 02:34:53 PM
Just a quick reply ASI to one small point about Babel.

I'm genuinely not surprised Babel played well Monday. I have been very critical of Benitez and now Hodgson for their treatment of the player.

Granted they see him on a day to day basis but it was always clear by his performances that he was not a winger but both Rafa and Roy continued to play him there if he did get any minutes on the pitch.

Roy promised him a run up front before Christmas but had it not been for the birth of Nandos child Babel would most likely have been flogged in January without that chance.

He played in Europe and scored, I thought played well but was then hauled off at half time.

I think alot of people on here have recognised Babels talent, have been frustrated by his performances on the wing but also understood its not his position.

If Roy decided to keep him in the team today because of his performance Monday at the expense of Nando I would not have a problem and I think it would send a great message through the team that if your playing well you will get a shot. It might show the more senior players like Torres and Gerrard that they have to work hard to stay in the team. It will prevent complacency setting in while giving the fringe players a boost.

So much for making a quick point! I'm off to buy a Christmas tree...........

This day to day basis thing is all very well but beauty is in the eye of the beholder...its' dependent on Roy knowing what a good player is...hopefully he will see that when he actually plays Babel, he might actually provide considerably more than ngog...
as far as i'm concerned i've watched ngog and babel over the last couple of years and see a lucky player who gets a few goals against weak opposition and a player who's thrown in against big teams, plays well (mostly) but doesn't grab the headline news...all this babel scores only his 2nd goal of the season is a joke cos he hasn't been given a chance...
don't expect to see babel and torres in the same team today though...

i hope to be surprised...
Title: Re: The Roy Hodgson Thread
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on December 11, 2010, 04:41:53 PM
Just a quick reply ASI to one small point about Babel.

I'm genuinely not surprised Babel played well Monday. I have been very critical of Benitez and now Hodgson for their treatment of the player.

Granted they see him on a day to day basis but it was always clear by his performances that he was not a winger but both Rafa and Roy continued to play him there if he did get any minutes on the pitch.

Roy promised him a run up front before Christmas but had it not been for the birth of Nandos child Babel would most likely have been flogged in January without that chance.

He played in Europe and scored, I thought played well but was then hauled off at half time.

I think alot of people on here have recognised Babels talent, have been frustrated by his performances on the wing but also understood its not his position.

If Roy decided to keep him in the team today because of his performance Monday at the expense of Nando I would not have a problem and I think it would send a great message through the team that if your playing well you will get a shot. It might show the more senior players like Torres and Gerrard that they have to work hard to stay in the team. It will prevent complacency setting in while giving the fringe players a boost.

So much for making a quick point! I'm off to buy a Christmas tree...........

Juan, I think the hope with Rafa and Roy was that Babel could be turned into a winger with his pace and power. Kuyt has done a pretty decent job on the right for us and I think they just persevered with Babel in the hope that it would work.

For whatever reason it hasn't so now Roy has to work out a system that can bring out the best in Babel up front with Torres. Maybe Maxi out on the left will work. Nice problems to have some might sy.

LATER: Babel doesn't start. He's on the bench. Ngog is preferred. Here's the lineup. Presumably 4-4-2.

Liverpool: Reina, Johnson, Konchesky, Skrtel, Kyrgiakos, Meireles, Lucas, Kuyt, Maxi, Ngog, Torres. Subs: Jones, Kelly, Aurelio, Poulsen, Cole, Jovanovic, Babel.
Title: Re: