Anfield Road - Liverpool FC Forum

Football and lesser sports => Liverpool FC, football, sport => Topic started by: Ageing Stick Insect on August 23, 2010, 10:45:13 PM

Title: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on August 23, 2010, 10:45:13 PM
That did not make for good viewing!  :( The loss of Masch was obvious and 2 up front away from home against a City side packed with talent didn't make sense. You do that against weaker sides.

I know it's early days for Roy so I'm not going to bash him but I do wish he'd changed things at helf-time because Jovanovic looked poor most of the evening. Also Agger cannot play left-back so we need someone there fairly rapid.

Hart is an exceptional keeper and if the Torres effort had gone it making it 2-1 who knows what might have happened. It was clear frustration had set in long before the end.

We also missed Cole's creativity. Hopefully with two less strong games coming up we can regain some confidence which must have taken a knock tonight.

Looking at it with my half-empty goggles we're 3 off the bottom but with my half-full ones we're 3 points off the top four. There's time to recover but a positive performance is essential in our next Europa and league games.

Now I just have the tricky bit of facing City fans at work tomorrow.  :-[
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 23, 2010, 10:59:26 PM
Re-posting in this thread.

Just as I would give Roy and the team credit when credit is due I think it is equally fair to lambast the team and the manager when they put on a performance like tonight.

We looked like the team of 11 new players uncomfortable playing with each other not City.

On tonight's display and with almost a full team we wont come close to challenging for anything worthwhile, not to mind finishing in the top 4.

Gerrard for about the 15th season in a row looks head and shoulders above most of the other outfield players. Lucas is not good enough for Liverpool, Carragher is a spent force. Johnson was shocking, Kuyt's touch was diabolical to say the least.

Hard work and graft are attributes used to describe players who just dont cut the mustard and on tonights performance we have plenty of players that are exactly that.

Torres must be looking at the transfer window wondering if a move can still happen because himself and Gerrards talents are wasted in a team that performs like that.

As for Hodgsons tactics, decision making and use of substitutions, you wouldn't have seen them in a Championship game. We have witnessed some bad results over the last few seasons but that rates right up there with them.

The forwards looked isolated, waiting to pick up scraps from balls just lofted up from defense. Gerrard was almost expected to cover the two central midfield positions Lucas was so ineffective.  Jovanovic to give him his credit showed some glimpses of promise. Defensively we got cut open, Carragher struggling to get back, Johnson chasing shadows. We allowed cross after cross be whipped into our box from both wings, rarely closing the likes of Adam Johnson down.

People can point to the fact that its so early on in the season but this is just yet another repeat of early seasons gone by. Fans should no longer accept this crap. We look a spent force in desperate need of an overhaul and although this is a rant in the heat of the moment I refuse to keep making excuses as to why we are so often so bad.

Maybe its time fans increased the pressure on the yanks to go because on tonight's performance we are light years off a team that although drew got battered by Spurs on the opening day of the season.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 23, 2010, 11:05:50 PM
That did not make for good viewing!  :( The loss of Masch was obvious and 2 up front away from home against a City side packed with talent didn't make sense. You do that against weaker sides.

I know it's early days for Roy so I'm not going to bash him but I do wish he'd changed things at helf-time because Jovanovic looked poor most of the evening. Also Agger cannot play left-back so we need someone there fairly rapid.
[

Well if thats the way Roy plays his football away from home its no wonder Fulham had 4 wins in two seasons on the road.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Jim B on August 23, 2010, 11:09:28 PM
We can change managers as much as we like, but the problems at this club won't go away until the owners do.

Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on August 23, 2010, 11:15:43 PM
Well if thats the way Roy plays his football away from home its no wonder Fulham had 4 wins in two seasons on the road.
Juan,
He's far from being a stupid man so I don't expect to see 4-4-2 away from home for a long time. He took a chance with a side that is still bonding and it didn't work out. Did anyone see that coming after City's weak 1-0 win in Europe last week? No.

I can't agree with your assessment of Jovanovic. I thought he was poor and drifted infield far too often giving us no width on the left. We were overrun in midfield and that should have been addressed at half-time.

It will be interesting to see the formation on Thursday and I imagine there are quite a few senior players who want to give a better performance.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on August 23, 2010, 11:20:04 PM
We can change managers as much as we like, but the problems at this club won't go away until the owners do.

I prefer Roy to Rafa despite tonight's defeat. Let's see how we fare after 6-8 games. Roy will learn from that.

Three good reports from you over the weekend. I don't suppose you have any good news to impart? I think we could all do with cheering up after tonight.

Nice look to the new website. Just one request. Can we have a link to your AnfieldRoad.com site please?
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Tes on August 23, 2010, 11:31:13 PM
We can change managers as much as we like, but the problems at this club won't go away until the owners do.

Exactly. No amount of wallpaper could cover these cracks. It's not minor shrinkage, it's major subsidence.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on August 23, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
Whilst tonight was a big shock to the system let's not forget that when we beat Manure at OT 17 months ago it was their heaviest defeat to us for 70 years! And they went on to win the title!

We're two games in and have had the hardest fixtures. A little bit of realism is required. It takes a while for a new manager to understand all his players and work out the best formation.

Let's not forget that turgid 0-0 game at Eastlands last season. Would you really want a repeat of that? I know I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 23, 2010, 11:50:10 PM
We can change managers as much as we like, but the problems at this club won't go away until the owners do.

Jim I'm not suggesting for a second we change managers, what would be the point with the state of the club off the field. And despite our financial woes Roy deserves time and a chance to get things right.

But aside from the lack of funds provided to the manager I will refuse to make excuses for the team and the manager this season when we witness games like that.

Roys had a baptism of fire in the league and tonights proven he is yet to come to grips with what it takes to manage Liverpool but tactically he needs to learn and learn fast because the players at his disposal are far better than what we have seen tonight.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Kopite999 on August 23, 2010, 11:56:44 PM
Did you hear liverpool fans singing for Benitez? As much as i liked him i dont agree with that. Woy didnt deserve that. Ngog and Torres playing together was a big mistake. Ok if we had West Brom or Blackpool at home but not City away. We got out numbered in the centre of the pitch all game.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 24, 2010, 12:01:18 AM
Whilst tonight was a big shock to the system let's not forget that when we beat Manure at OT 17 months ago it was their heaviest defeat to us for 70 years! And they went on to win the title!

We're two games in and have had the hardest fixtures. A little bit of realism is required. It takes a while for a new manager to understand all his players and work out the best formation.

Let's not forget that turgid 0-0 game at Eastlands last season. Would you really want a repeat of that? I know I wouldn't.

ASI dont get me wrong I'm not saying sack the manager. I am simply saying it as I see it and tonight was appalling.

There are players in that team that should not get the chance to wear the shirt. Last thursday Lucas played with Poulsen in central midfield. Poulsen played the holding role and Lucas had the opportunity to do what he is meant to do best, be a box to box midfielder. He was anonymous. And tonight again he offered nothing. Time after time when we had a throw instead of offering himself up as an option he shyed away, on one occasion he wasnt even being marked.

At times its may be ugly but as far as the manager goes I will definitely give him time. For some of those players who have been under-performing for too long now my patience has finally run out.

As for last seasons 0-0 at the eastlands, i would take that any day over the 3 nil drubbing that we saw tonight.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 24, 2010, 12:06:20 AM
Did you hear liverpool fans singing for Benitez? As much as i liked him i dont agree with that. Woy didnt deserve that. Ngog and Torres playing together was a big mistake. Ok if we had West Brom or Blackpool at home but not City away. We got out numbered in the centre of the pitch all game.

Didnt hear that but Roy definitely doesn't deserve that.

That said our fans that travel probably rarely saw Rafa put in a performance as tactically inept as that.

Roy does deserve better but he needs to learn from this quickly otherwise he might find the team struggling to match last seasons 7th.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 24, 2010, 10:10:27 AM
Having time to reflect on last nights defeat i'm still gutted to say the least. My expectations for this season were probably as low as they have ever been for Liverpool but I never expected that.

I'm still shocked we managed to be as bad as we were.

Seeing Torres come off brought back that memory from the end of last season when we needed a goal he was hauled off with a shocked Gerrard looking on. I'm not suggesting Torres should have stayed on, clearly hes not there yet and needs to be protected.

I'm not sure how Hodgson will manage to lift the spirits of the likes of Torres and Gerrard today, they must be wondering if they made the right decision in staying. Maybe he will point to the fact that Mascherano and Cole were out but the loss last night was much more than 2 players missing.

But all that said and having let off steam about the state of the team last night there is no point on dwelling on it anymore and it should be put down as part of the steep learning curve on the part of Hodgson.

Lets just hope this is an early season blip and its onwards and upwards for Roy from here.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: barticus on August 24, 2010, 12:54:26 PM
I'm sure Roy will get it right in the end....it's his 5rd match after all...i think he'll soon realise that kuyt and lucas should never be played together and it should be either or...
i didnt see the match but its at eastlands and the last two seasons were pretty close games....citeh have spent close to 200 mil since then...and it shows...money eventually shows in the league...and mancini is not an idiot...

mascherano was missing...and it seems he's on his way...he misses his wife and kid...which is all very well but whatever happened to stand by your man...with 28 mil for toure....the 15 mil offer from barca is a joke...both real madrid and barca have stuffed us in the past (not on the pitch, mind)....and when fortune turns to better times we shall remember...

the best thing for the club is that it gets seized by the RBS in october...even with the 9 point deduction it will mean an end to the yankee carpetbaggers...in order to prevent the club then being sold to other 'not fit carpetbaggers' then RBS needs a reminder of their position in all this....they get fatter on the profits of the interest on our club and as they do so we deepen our decline...a reminder that the thieving banksters will get far more bad publicity and thus damage their 'product' is needed....

Oh and one more thing...bravo to jim on the new look to the forum! It's class!
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Ageing Stick Insect on August 24, 2010, 05:00:11 PM
ASI dont get me wrong I'm not saying sack the manager. I am simply saying it as I see it and tonight was appalling.
I know you're not Juan. There has to be an underlying reason for that poor performance.

Quote
There are players in that team that should not get the chance to wear the shirt. Last thursday Lucas played with Poulsen in central midfield. Poulsen played the holding role and Lucas had the opportunity to do what he is meant to do best, be a box to box midfielder. He was anonymous. And tonight again he offered nothing. Time after time when we had a throw instead of offering himself up as an option he shyed away, on one occasion he wasnt even being marked.
Lucas has played okay in the past and I don't want to start blaming players this early into a new season and under new management. The 4-4-2 was alien to them and clearly didn't work. Let's see what a different formation does.

Quote
As for last seasons 0-0 at the eastlands, i would take that any day over the 3 nil drubbing that we saw tonight.
At least we went out to win last night comapred to the mustn't lose attitude of last season's game. And that loss will send clear signals that we can't do that again.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Ed on August 24, 2010, 06:04:32 PM
Tbh I thought Lucas was fine last night, he's a disciplined and committed player. I don't get it when fans think that a sideways pass that goes 4 feet and reaches a player on the same team is somehow inferior to a 40 yarder that misses its target. Lucas generally does not give the ball away and depending on what's happening in front of him can easily pick a pass. As I understand it the reason Rafa never played Stevie G in the centre is because he is tactically naive in this respect. I'm not denying that Gerrard is a great offensive player and can cover the ground and put in a tackle. But last night we needed to hold on to the ball and be patient with our build up play.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: the dude abides on August 24, 2010, 06:57:24 PM
if i ay be the first to say - sak roy - end the nightare now

Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Tes on August 24, 2010, 07:38:42 PM
The manager's had little time to assess his squad and to work with them to get his ideas across. The lack of time has only been made worse by the world cup players coming back in dribs and drabs and being unavailable for pre-season workouts. Then we had that moronic international break just before the first league game.

We need to be patient and expect this sort of thing early on. Anything better can then be seen as a bonus.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 24, 2010, 08:17:25 PM
The manager's had little time to assess his squad and to work with them to get his ideas across. The lack of time has only been made worse by the world cup players coming back in dribs and drabs and being unavailable for pre-season workouts. Then we had that moronic international break just before the first league game.

We need to be patient and expect this sort of thing early on. Anything better can then be seen as a bonus.

Tes aside from all the reasons we can give, what has shocked me the most was the tactics.

I just thought it was all very naive and almost amateurish last night.

It was clear we were getting hammered and not to make a substitution until after your 3 nil down with 65 minutes on the board is baffling.

Its only Roys second game but it was a shocker.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 24, 2010, 08:20:25 PM
if i ay be the first to say - sak roy - end the nightare now

Dude your keyboard is making you sound like a Chinese pirate.

I'm not suggesting sack Roy but with regards last night I just felt like saying it as it was because we were so bad.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: the dude abides on August 25, 2010, 04:14:00 AM
Dude your keyboard is making you sound like a Chinese pirate.

I'm not suggesting sack Roy but with regards last night I just felt like saying it as it was because we were so bad.

sorry i was not replyig to your post Juan (i hadn't een read the posts aboe)

i was nerely getting ny blow in first - sak woy - sak broughton - sak hiks and gillett - sak yossi - sak kuyt - sak nonster - sak santa ----------------- sak the lot

and then dig enn up and resak the lot of thenn

sakings ontinue until both perfornnane and norale innprobes
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: subsy on August 25, 2010, 11:26:21 AM
:)

I thought Ngog underperformed.
I thought GJ was awful.
I thought Jovanovic looked committed, but made too many mistakes.
I thought Lucas looked well out of his depth and constantly in the wrong position.
I thought Agger did ok as a makeshift LB, but clearly wasnt comfortable against Adam Johnson (who went down in my estimation on Monday night - not because of his talent - which is clear, but because of his dodgy gamesmanship attempting to get Skrtel sent off, and starting timewasting with 30 minutes left to play still).
I thought Stevie was trying hard, but clearly wasnt enjoying being bossed in midfield like that.
I was glad Torres got a good run out but dissapointed he didnt get any decent service.

Overall we were well off the pace. Not quick enough to close them down, whilst they were all over us like a rash.

The 442 was at the heart of our problems playing against a very strong City midfield.
But what I cant understand at all, is what worries me most - why when the 442 CLEARLY (to a blind man) wasnt working, did Roy not change it???!
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2010, 02:54:08 PM
Bloody managers, clueless buggers, the lot of them.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 25, 2010, 03:41:51 PM
:)

I thought Ngog underperformed.
I thought GJ was awful.
I thought Jovanovic looked committed, but made too many mistakes.
I thought Lucas looked well out of his depth and constantly in the wrong position.
I thought Agger did ok as a makeshift LB, but clearly wasnt comfortable against Adam Johnson (who went down in my estimation on Monday night - not because of his talent - which is clear, but because of his dodgy gamesmanship attempting to get Skrtel sent off, and starting timewasting with 30 minutes left to play still).
I thought Stevie was trying hard, but clearly wasnt enjoying being bossed in midfield like that.
I was glad Torres got a good run out but dissapointed he didnt get any decent service.

Overall we were well off the pace. Not quick enough to close them down, whilst they were all over us like a rash.

The 442 was at the heart of our problems playing against a very strong City midfield.
But what I cant understand at all, is what worries me most - why when the 442 CLEARLY (to a blind man) wasnt working, did Roy not change it???!

For me that pretty much sums it up perfectly
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Ed on August 25, 2010, 07:28:37 PM
It's an interesting point about Johnson WTF does he bring to the team....it's beginning to get on my nerves. He raids up the flank, rarely does much and is then caught out of position, but whatever, what really really winds me up is when i see a player whipping one in on his side. I mean it's almost as if blocking a cross is not his responsibility. The problem for me regarding Johnson is that he doesn't seem to have improved or progressed in any sense since he arrived (whereas Lucas has!).

Finnan was no nonsense reasonably solid, defensively and could send in a deep cross from just inside midfield. I'd argue that Finnan was a limited BUT INTELLIGENT player. Johnson appears to have ability but is strangely ineffective.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: the dude abides on August 25, 2010, 07:44:41 PM
agreed Ed - johnston is useless as a defender (always was)

hek - if we lose nonster and kuyt (and with yossi already gone) we will be well and truly fuked

top 4 ny bottom - we'll be luky to finish in the top 10
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Ed on August 25, 2010, 09:39:22 PM
Lol, Dude your Kybrd is fcked! I think our team is a few keys short of a working keyboard at the moment!
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2010, 09:46:34 PM
agreed Ed - johnston is useless as a defender (always was)

hek - if we lose nonster and kuyt (and with yossi already gone) we will be well and truly fuked

top 4 ny bottom - we'll be luky to finish in the top 10

Dude, now what was it we were saying at the time we were originally linked with him?  ::)
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 26, 2010, 01:39:43 AM
It's an interesting point about Johnson WTF does he bring to the team....it's beginning to get on my nerves. He raids up the flank, rarely does much and is then caught out of position, but whatever, what really really winds me up is when i see a player whipping one in on his side. I mean it's almost as if blocking a cross is not his responsibility. The problem for me regarding Johnson is that he doesn't seem to have improved or progressed in any sense since he arrived (whereas Lucas has!).

Finnan was no nonsense reasonably solid, defensively and could send in a deep cross from just inside midfield. I'd argue that Finnan was a limited BUT INTELLIGENT player. Johnson appears to have ability but is strangely ineffective.

Johnson is proving to be woeful. 18 million at the moment seems like 14 million too much. I'm still hoping he comes good.

As for Lucas the fact that Palermo offered 3 million for him this summer says it all for me, especially consdering we bought him for between 6-8. He is a player with a good attitude and a good work rate but as a central midfielder he is completely limited. He range of passing is poor, his scoring rate is poor, at times his positioning and defensive play can be poor. Last season and the start of this has been terrible because our first 11 and probably our first 15/16 is simply not up to scratch. For me Lucas is one of those not of Liverpool quality.

As for Finnan I thought he was a great player. If he had been English he would have got far more recognition that hes deserved. He could defend, attack and whipped in a quality ball and free kick too. Best right back we've had in years.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: the dude abides on August 26, 2010, 03:12:59 AM
Lol, Dude your Kybrd is fcked! I think our team is a few keys short of a working keyboard at the moment!

 :D

i agree Ed

soe ight argue tho that i was always one key short of a keyboard
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: the dude abides on August 26, 2010, 03:18:14 AM
Dude, now what was it we were saying at the time we were originally linked with him?  ::)

eatly Tes

we said it fro the start - a blind nan bould see that Johnston's signing was a fool's errand

neber good enough defensiely
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Tes on August 29, 2010, 11:02:02 PM
So Sunderland beat City thanks to a Darren Bent penalty. Maybe, just maybe, they could have played us on a very good day for them and a very poor one for us.

I'm still neither convinced about their squad / team or just how capable Mancini really is as a manager.
Title: Re: Biggest defeat to Man City for 70 years!
Post by: Juan on August 30, 2010, 12:10:21 AM
So Sunderland beat City thanks to a Darren Bent penalty. Maybe, just maybe, they could have played us on a very good day for them and a very poor one for us.

I'm still neither convinced about their squad / team or just how capable Mancini really is as a manager.

At the moment we dont seem to have too many good days in the way of performances. Even today I thought we looked poor against WBA. Dont get me wrong a wins a win, I dont mean to sound like I'm never happy but then again we are Liverpool and we should be blowing teams like WBA away at Anfield.

I'm starting to feel this group of players as a team may be finished and that only when a takeover happens and this team is dismantled will we see the changes we want.

Gerrard and Torres even look at times like they no longer truly believe this team is capable of challenging, they often look like they are going through the motions. For me that boils down to the fact they dont believe alot of their team mates are good enough to be on the same pitch as them.