Anfield Road - Liverpool FC Forum

Football and lesser sports => Liverpool FC, football, sport => Topic started by: Tes on June 18, 2014, 10:01:03 AM

Title: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on June 18, 2014, 10:01:03 AM
Yes, it's that time again when the fixtures are released:

August

16 - Southampton (H)
23 - Manchester City (A)
30 - Tottenham Hotspur (A)

September

13 - Aston Villa (H)
20 - West Ham United (A)
24 - Capital One Cup third round
27 - Everton (H)

October

4 - West Bromwich Albion (H)
18 - Queens Park Rangers (A)
25 - Hull City (H)
29 - Capital One Cup fourth round

November

1 - Newcastle United (A)
8 - Chelsea (H)
22 - Crystal Palace (A)
29 - Stoke City (H)

December

2 - Leicester City (A)
6 - Sunderland (H)
13 - Manchester United (A)
17 - Capital One Cup fifth round
20 - Arsenal (H)
26 - Burnley (A)
28 - Swansea City (H)

January

1 - Leicester City (H)
3 - FA Cup third round
10 - Sunderland (A)
17 - Aston Villa (A)
21 - Capital One Cup semi-final, first leg
24 - FA Cup fourth round
28 - Capital One Cup semi-final, second leg
31 - West Ham United (H)

February

7 - Everton (A)
10 - Tottenham Hotspur (H)
14 - FA Cup fifth round
21 - Southampton (A)
28 - Manchester City (H)

March

1 - Capital One Cup final
3 - Burnley (H)
7 - FA Cup quarter-finals
14 - Swansea City (A)
21 - Manchester United (H)

April

4 - Arsenal (A)
11 - Newcastle United (H)
18 - Hull City (A)
18 - FA Cup semi-finals
25 - West Bromwich Albion (A)

May

2 - Queens Park Rangers (H)
9 - Chelsea (A)
16 - Crystal Palace (H)
24 - Stoke City (A)
30 - FA Cup final



Somebody wants to make sure we're playing catch up from the off. If we get through August undefeated then that will be a very solid start. Afterall, we only came out with 3 points from those same three games last season, so improving on that total and remaining undefeated surely has to be the realistic aim.

A win against Southampton, and avoid defeat at Spurs (where we don't have the greatest record, apart from last season) and City.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on June 28, 2014, 11:15:25 AM
An excellent piece by Roy Evans, and it describes exactly what embodied 'The Liverpool Way', and why successes were sustained. This needs to be pinned up on the dressing room walls at Melwood and Anfield, and should be incorporated into every player's contract of employment:

Liverpool’s success last season counts for nothing, warns Roy Evans

http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2014/06/liverpools-success-last-season-counts-for-nothing-warns-roy-evans/ (http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2014/06/liverpools-success-last-season-counts-for-nothing-warns-roy-evans/)

"Just because you were a good team last year, it does not mean you’re a good team this year. You have to show the same effort and the same desire."

Very wise words from a graduate of the school of Shankly-Paisley.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 17, 2014, 03:59:08 PM
The squad for the American tour:

Agger, Allen, Borini, Can, Coady, Coates, Coutinho, Enrique, Flanagan, Gerrard, Henderson, Ibe, Ilori, Johnson, Jones, Kelly, Lallana, Lambert, Leiva, Markovic, Mignolet, Phillips, Reina, Robinson, Sakho, Skrtel, Sterling, Sturridge, Suso, Teixeira, Toure, Ward, Wisdom.


So let's see Reina given a proper chance, maybe then we won't have to spend money on another goalkeeper + 1.5x wages.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 19, 2014, 02:38:19 PM
Looking at this afternoon's starting line-up against Preston, Rodgers may already be planning on using Flanno again at left back if we miss out on Davies and/or Moreno. Unless he shifts Kelly there and plays Wisdom as centre half. Possibly the most likely is that Wisdom plays right back, Kelly centre half and Flanno left back.

Let's hope whoever plays right back during pre-season gives Rodgers the easy decision to replace Johnson with (one of) them, and at the same time gives Johnson the huge shake-up his head needs, as there's little sign, other than perma-crock Micah Richards, that we are thinking of replacing or providing strong back-up/competition for Johnson.

Of course Flanno would, but only if another left back is brought in.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 21, 2014, 05:26:32 PM
Gerrard's retired from International football. Good.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 25, 2014, 06:20:35 PM
Raheem Sterling: I have to prove myself after Lallana and Markovic arrivals

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/491932/Raheem-Sterling-I-have-to-prove-myself-after-Lallana-and-Markovic-arrivals (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/491932/Raheem-Sterling-I-have-to-prove-myself-after-Lallana-and-Markovic-arrivals)

LIVERPOOL winger Raheem Sterling claims he has to re-establish himself as a first-team regular with the intake of new players this summer.

Sterling said: "I've still got to prove myself; the manager has brought players in that are all in similar positions to me, so I've just got to keep working hard, show the manager what I can do and try not to take my foot off the gas, pressing for a place in this team.

"It's a top football club with top players, who come in to compete and do their best every day. That's been no different so far [in training].

"There is definitely much more to come from me. I just need to keep working hard and hopefully I can get into my full stride this season and try to do the best for the football club."


Great to see him growing up and he's just got to look at Flanno and Henderson to understand where hard work can get you. Likewise Jermaine Pennant to see how not to squander your talent.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 26, 2014, 07:36:18 AM
The season's off to a flying start: Liverpool's £25m man Adam Lallana out for six weeks with knee injury

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/491975/Liverpool-s-25m-man-Adam-Lallana-out-for-six-weeks-with-knee-injury?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-express-sport-news+%28Daily+Express+%3A%3A+Sport+Feed%29 (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/491975/Liverpool-s-25m-man-Adam-Lallana-out-for-six-weeks-with-knee-injury?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-express-sport-news+%28Daily+Express+%3A%3A+Sport+Feed%29)

You can just see Karma, sitting there in her Southampton shirt, with a Ronald Koeman cut out cardboard mask.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 27, 2014, 12:19:42 PM
Premier League: Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers says defence must improve

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9396357/premier-league-liverpool-boss-brendan-rodgers-says-defence-must-improve (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9396357/premier-league-liverpool-boss-brendan-rodgers-says-defence-must-improve)

"(Defence) is a place where we want to be better, there’s no doubt about that,” he told Sky Sports News.

“It wasn’t good enough to concede that many goals, considering the amount of possession we had and amount of goals we scored.
"

Surely it should be "need", not "want". It's an imperative, not a "nice to have".

How does goals scored have anything to do with goals conceded apart from the way you go about the former can have a majorly negative affect on the latter, as we saw last season.
Yes, there were individual errors, and sometimes nothing can avoid that, but a well drilled defence and well practiced defensive side to our game would reduce individual errors through greater surety of role and reinforcement through practice.
You only have to look at how well drilled other teams looked last season. We look superbly drilled and practiced when attacking but lacking the same degree in the entire defensive side of the game and almost as though it was down to the defensive minded and defensively positioned players to sort it out for themselves individually and collectively and just "know what to do".
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on July 27, 2014, 04:16:36 PM
Remy fails medical. Pity because it seemed a very good deal.

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9396762/Remy-Deal-Off...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 27, 2014, 04:43:11 PM
Remy fails medical. Pity because it seemed a very good deal.

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9396762/Remy-Deal-Off...

It's a shame and a huge blow. It also might mean Borini's transfer/loan is off, but we'll have to wait and see.

It will probably have a knock on effect for the rest of the window. I imagine Rodgers will now have to target another attacker, which will probably cost a lot more than the Remy fee, and that could impact the amount the defence has spent on it. Remy seemed like a great acquisition at a bargain price in the current crazy market.

It's not been a good few days with Lallana's injury too.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 27, 2014, 05:10:09 PM
Looking a Remy's injury record - knee Dec 2008, groin Feb 2013, calf Aug 2013, unknown (though I thought it had been a knee or calf injury) Mar 2013.

There seems to be a recent glut of injuries in the last 18 months and if all the injuries were to the same limb, or even just the knee and groin injuries, it could suggest a skeletal problem, hip/pelvic being a good bet, as they show themselves in groins, knees and base of spine as often as the hip/pelvic area itself, or can be an indicator of problems.

Remy's pace/playing style would also increase the likelihood of those injuries should an underlying problem exist.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 28, 2014, 10:48:23 PM
Liverpool open talks over new contract for youngster Suso

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-open-talks-over-7523230 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-open-talks-over-7523230)

If he gets his act together it could allow Rodgers more flexibility in how he uses both Coutinho and Lallana.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 30, 2014, 11:34:43 PM
Reds yet to open Gerrard contract talks but skipper relaxed over future

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-yet-open-contract-7537158 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-yet-open-contract-7537158)

Also:

Steven Gerrard hints at Liverpool exit after seeing Frank Lampard move to America

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/steven-gerrard-hints-liverpool-exit-3936819 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/steven-gerrard-hints-liverpool-exit-3936819)

He'll turn 35 just after this season finishes. Maybe that would then be a good time to play a couple of years in the MLS, having left the PL whilst still held in high regard and able to perform to a decent level.

It would also allow us to move forward with a more long term view about how the midfield will pan out going forward. Emre Can will have had a season to acclimatise to everything, and if needs be we could add another midfield option next season without the problem of trying to bed in too many players in any one area, like we are looking like having to do again this season with the defence, if get a left back and/or another right back.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on July 31, 2014, 07:02:22 PM
The solution to our defensive problems, which reared it's ugly head again last against City, isn't buying new defensive players, it's getting Gerrard some decent football boots, with proper studs, that allow him to keep his feet.

I've got a couple of old pairs of Puma SPA Kings he could have.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 01, 2014, 09:16:44 AM
An interesting article on Rodgers:

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11096/9401533/liverpool-boss-brendan-rodgers-has-his-philosophy-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-from-jose-mourinho (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11096/9401533/liverpool-boss-brendan-rodgers-has-his-philosophy-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-from-jose-mourinho)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on August 01, 2014, 11:36:29 AM
Not just us who are saying this then....this from the bleacher report



The bad news is that those other areas of defence need quite a bit of work still. None of Rodgers’ full-back options have really made any lasting impression, and Jose Enrique’s positioning against City on Wednesday was spectacularly abhorrent.

Not that Martin Kelly and Glen Johnson did much to resurrect their Anfield careers either, and Jack Robinson, so often heralded as Liverpool’s next homegrown left-back talent, hasn’t shown enough to suggest he can usurp even Jon Flanagan’s place in the pecking order anytime soon.

Then there’s the sticky issue of the defensive midfield, whose current incumbents, besides the enterprising Emre Can, are the off-pace Lucas and the increasingly off-pace Steven Gerrard.

Perhaps it’s a sign of the times—and a sad sight for all Liverpool fans—that their performance was markedly improved in the second half, and even more so with Gerrard off the pitch. His absence might deprive his team of on-field leadership and creative vision, but it’s also no coincidence that the entire Reds side look more cohesive going forward and defending as a unit without the captain.

With Gerrard’s international retirement, the case of Gerrard’s playing time this season will be something that Brendan Rodgers needs to manage carefully. Get it right, and the Reds will have a bright future while phasing out their captain. Get it wrong, and there could be huge ramifications on how the season turns out.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2147213-liverpool-vs-manchester-city-what-reds-learned-in-international-champions-cup/page/6
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 01, 2014, 12:26:29 PM
Rodgers' attitude to the two goals conceded against City was "they were unfortunate".

He really does appear to have a genuine blindspot where the whole defensive side of the game is concerned. We defend by keeping possession, pushing the opposition back by attacking them and scoring enough goals to make sure we outscore the opposition.

Johnson is getting worse almost every time I see him. He can't be our first choice right back this season.

If we're going to have full backs who's prime role is to attack and provide width (full backs should be defenders first and foremost), then he has to work with them on the understanding that only one can go forward at a time. We can't have both high up the pitch if/when we lose possession.
Also, even with one of them high up the pitch and out of position until they get back (which they must work much harder to do then they are at the moment), it means the nearest centre half is likely to have to move across and cover that position when the opposition attack that vacated area, therefore the other centre half has to move across to cover his partner and the other fullback drop in to cover the second centre half. It's like they have to each be joined to the next by a piece of rope tied around their waist, so when one moves across to cover a vacated position/space then everyone else moves across 'one position' also. So if both full backs are up the pitch we're done for.

Alternatively, if he's going to allow both full backs to go forward at the same time then we're going to need to play with two, not one, defensive midfielders, so that one covers across in the position/space vacated by the full back if the opposition are attacking down that particular flank, whilst the other defensive midfielder is trying to shield the two centre halves and/or picking up either a deep lying forward or midfielder making a run into the box. Also this way it should mean that the centre halves don't get parted or dragged out into a wide position where most centre halves are less comfortable operating.

When watching us it's patently obvious just how much work goes on in training on the movement and attacking aspect of our game, due to the way it works so smoothly and clicks, but it's equally apparent how little or no work goes into the defensive aspect as our defending is as shambolic and disjointed as our attacking is smooth and fluid.

He really needs to lose the idealism and introduce a bit of pragmatism if we're not to become just another Arsenal. Wenger seems to have finally cottoned on and is starting to understand the need for both defensive recruits and also that experience is also vital, and that he can't just keeping recruiting young players without having the experienced there to guide them. Likewise simply buying only attacking players will not stop them conceding goals, drawing instead of winning, losing instead of drawing.

Defenses don't neccessarily win you games, but they save you dropping the points that the attack has put you in the position to gain. They can prevent defeats and ensure victories are gained when leads are taken.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 01, 2014, 01:31:27 PM
Not just us who are saying this then....this from the bleacher report

And another: http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/9402988/- (http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/9402988/-) with the most pertinent lines being: " Players are now flooding forward looking to score goals, as opposed to the idea of just keeping the ball - because that's no good on its own. " To which the article accurately responds: " Similarly, flooding forward looking to score goals is no good on its own if the bolt has been left off the back door. ".

And another excellent point: " There is a sense that merely buying another centre-back - and possibly a new left-back - is too simplistic to address the issues that ultimately cost Liverpool the title.

It is not necessarily that the defenders Liverpool already possess lack the requisite quality to mount a challenge at the top of the table, but rather Rodgers' swashbuckling style was often guilty of leaving the back line exposed. The Reds play with a high level of risk, and on several occasions last season it proved to be their downfall.
".

Rodgers' attitude: " (Defence) is a place where we want to be better, there's no doubt about that," the manager said recently. "It wasn't good enough to concede that many goals, considering the amount of possession we had and amount of goals we scored. ".

We need to be better, not "want", and what has the amount of goals we scored got to do with how poorly we defend? We know we scored plenty, so does everyone else, there's no need to keep pointing out the fact to divert from the real issue.

Rodgers: Goals against Man City were 'unfortunate' - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11002395/Brendan-Rodgers-goals-Liverpool-conceded-were-unfortunate-despite-Man-City-win.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11002395/Brendan-Rodgers-goals-Liverpool-conceded-were-unfortunate-despite-Man-City-win.html)

Denial won't work, the problem has to be face up to and then solved.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 14, 2014, 02:03:57 PM
Liverpool: Swindon loanee Brad Smith back at Anfield after injury

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28788250 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28788250)


We appear to have a few players picking up injuries this early into the pre/new season.

Hopefully he can find another loan after he recovers from the injury.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2014, 12:43:26 PM
Alberto Moreno heads to Liverpool training with boots in hand as defender nears £12million move from Sevilla

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2725733/Alberto-Moreno-heads-Liverpool-training-boots-hand-defender-nears-12million-Sevilla.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2725733/Alberto-Moreno-heads-Liverpool-training-boots-hand-defender-nears-12million-Sevilla.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)

All this phooey in the media about his tears on Tuesday evening is ridiculous. He's a young man from Seville, playing for his local team. The tears show he cares, which is so refreshing to see in a modern footballer.
If he's anything like our other Spaniards, he'll also develop the same affinity for our club, which will benefit us hugely.

I'd rather have someone like that, than Johnson, who looks like he's just going through the motions and happily collecting his obscene pay cheque, having not been granted the long deal and payrise he thinks is perfectly acceptable to expect even at his age, and despite his diminishing performances and effectiveness over the last two seasons.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 15, 2014, 05:49:35 PM
It looks like Skrtel and co have been doing their bit for lower league clubs with a few free coaching sessions:

http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/14/yeovil-post-early-contender-for-comedy-goal-of-the-season-after-artur-krysiak-and-aaron-martin-mix-up-against-gillingham-4833233/ (http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/14/yeovil-post-early-contender-for-comedy-goal-of-the-season-after-artur-krysiak-and-aaron-martin-mix-up-against-gillingham-4833233/)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2014, 12:56:12 PM
Team for today: Simon Mignolet, Javier Manquillo, Martin Škrtel, Dejan Lovren, Glen Johnson; Steven Gerrard, Lucas, Jordan Henderson; Philippe Coutinho, Raheem Sterling, Daniel Sturridge

Substitutes: Brad Jones, Kolo Touré, Mamadou Sakho, Joe Allen, Emre Can, Jordan Ibe, Rickie Lambert


That's quite a safe team. Make sure there's no shock first game out. It's interesting that Johnson has been put at left back, where he actually seems to be able to defend, and Enrique has been totally left out, unless he's injured.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Flanno wasn't injured.


Can I think will be introduced slowly to the PL, and as a young player, it's a good idea.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on August 17, 2014, 03:22:21 PM
Poor performance today, Southampton deserved something from the game imho.  Glen Johnson a HUGE liability!!!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2014, 04:30:33 PM
Poor performance today, Southampton deserved something from the game imho.  Glen Johnson a HUGE liability!!!!

3 points from this one, and ignoring the Sherwood meltdown at Spurs last season as for us that was an anomaly, a point apiece away to City and Spurs would see us off to a solid start.

Missing both Lallana and Markovic left us a touch 'patched up' as Coutinho is not a wider starting forward player.

Hopefully we'll have Moreno or Enrique in the City game and Johnson can sit and watch but from the bench instead of standing and watching from a place miles out of position.

I hope Rodgers doesn't use Gerrard's place in our history and Can's age as a reason to spare the latter from replacing the former when performance warrants.

How would Barca replace Messi (maybe not the best example considering Luis' there now) and Madrid replace Ronaldo? There is no team in the league with a player of Suarez's level and without the finance to simply pay whatever fantasy figures get asked in the process of trying. And geography's against us.

I think we will see a more realistic level of where we are at the moment this season.

Whilst there was a Suarez to replace a Torres, there is no 'up and coming' player like there was with Suarez to replace the man himself.

Also it's impossible to read too much into the first 5/6 games of a league season. There will be teams that perform well to start then 'settle' to their level. Maybe Southampton will be one of them, or maybe a ground out win will seem like a better result than it does now.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2014, 05:31:13 PM
Just like Rodgers was advocating holding off giving Sterling another pay rise just yet, the same should be said of Gerrard's situation.

We don't need to tie him down, even though his contract finishes at the end of the season. We need to see if he's worth hanging onto or what is required for next season, and that period of consideration needs to be given until the end of this one.

Afterall, no team he'd want to go to would be interested, not even on a free, so if he feels like continuing then probably his only real worthwhile option would be to head to the MLS. Follow a path trodden by Pele, Beckenbauer, Best etc, in the MLS mk1.

Seeing as the MLS doesn't start until March, maybe we could a City a get Defoe until then.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2014, 06:23:04 PM
With City winning this afternoon and Arsenal and Spurs yesterday, our win, however turgid, could prove to be more important than it was impressive, even though it is only 1/38th of the season.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 17, 2014, 07:55:59 PM
Indeed a very fortunate win that must leave So'ton feeling numb. Shockingly poor display. Whilst I refuse to jump on the Johnson bandwagon (he wasn't good by any means, but hardly that poor either) I would like to pinpoint Skrtel, Lucas and Coutinho as liabilities. I don't understand why Lucas started this game at all. Time anda again he gave upp possession needlessly in dangerous areas. Coutinho couldn't get his fingers out to get into a position where he could contribute and on the rare occasions he actually got the ball facing their goal he was soooooo fornicating eager to deliever the killer pass. This is also his biggest draw back - he wants to do what's best for him, not the team. Skrtel for some reason I fail to grasp was positioned next to the corner flag allowing Clyne an austrada towards goal.

What disturbed me the most, and what is also a strong indicator we'll struggle to get 4th is our inability to show, passion, urgency, composure. How the fork is it possible So'ton sell most of their team, switch manager and yet manage to outplay us completely in the second half in THE fornicating OPENING GAME!!! Like tes said above this season will most likely bring us back to our true level because nothing I saw today convince me we will come even close to anything above 4th.

City will trash us, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2014, 08:27:02 PM
Luis Suarez sent Brendan Rodgers a 'lovely' text to wish his former club well before Liverpool win over Southampton

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2727222/Luis-Suarez-sent-Brendan-Rodgers-lovely-text-wish-former-club-Liverpool-win-Southampton.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2727222/Luis-Suarez-sent-Brendan-Rodgers-lovely-text-wish-former-club-Liverpool-win-Southampton.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)

" His heart is with Liverpool. "

It's a shame the rest of him isn't.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 17, 2014, 08:37:05 PM
Indeed a very fortunate win that must leave So'ton feeling numb. Shockingly poor display. Whilst I refuse to jump on the Johnson bandwagon (he wasn't good by any means, but hardly that poor either) I would like to pinpoint Skrtel, Lucas and Coutinho as liabilities. I don't understand why Lucas started this game at all. Time anda again he gave upp possession needlessly in dangerous areas. Coutinho couldn't get his fingers out to get into a position where he could contribute and on the rare occasions he actually got the ball facing their goal he was soooooo fornicating eager to deliever the killer pass. This is also his biggest draw back - he wants to do what's best for him, not the team. Skrtel for some reason I fail to grasp was positioned next to the corner flag allowing Clyne an austrada towards goal.

What disturbed me the most, and what is also a strong indicator we'll struggle to get 4th is our inability to show, passion, urgency, composure. How the fork is it possible So'ton sell most of their team, switch manager and yet manage to outplay us completely in the second half in THE fornicating OPENING GAME!!! Like tes said above this season will most likely bring us back to our true level because nothing I saw today convince me we will come even close to anything above 4th.

City will trash us, I'm afraid.

well said.

I say, sack the manager.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2014, 09:27:52 PM
Skrtel for some reason I fail to grasp was positioned next to the corner flag allowing Clyne an austrada towards goal.

What disturbed me the most, and what is also a strong indicator we'll struggle to get 4th is our inability to show, passion, urgency, composure.

City will trash us, I'm afraid.

There's a lot about about Skrtel's play that makes me feel like that. He must be one of the first players upgraded next Summer.

All those qualities you mention Martin can stem from a strong captain orchestrating things from the middle of midfield. Also the more senior or experienced players need to step up, take responsibility and do that. They are also things that need to be shown to and encouraged in young players, of which we have quite a few, so the effect can be magnified.

Rodgers and Coutinho together need to work out his best position and stick to it. Also, he needs to feel he has the complete faith of the manager so he can relax and play the right pass, rather than try and force things and 'create' an impression. He has the talent and vision, he needs to gain the composure to let those things flourish. Again, the captain and senior pros need to have a word if they see this happening, where like today he tried too hard to force the issue, rather than just keep things moving and letting the flow truly 'flow'.

We may just be surprised by our response at City. The players know they didn't play well as a team, but the pressure to get off to a winning start, at home, has passed, and being away from home whilst looking to step up the performance level may just help.

I'll take a 0-0 now. I think shutting out Aguero, Silva, Nasri, Džeko, Toure & co, would have a more beneficial effect than any feeling of a "failure to score" sans Suarez. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2014, 09:30:07 PM
I say, sack the manager.

Mrs Rodgers agrees.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 17, 2014, 10:03:18 PM
We may just be surprised by our response at City. The players know they didn't play well as a team, but the pressure to get off to a winning start, at home, has passed, and being away from home whilst looking to step up the performance level may just help.

I'll take a 0-0 now. I think shutting out Aguero, Silva, Nasri, Džeko, Toure & co, would have a more beneficial effect than any feeling of a "failure to score" sans Suarez.

yes, we may be surprised at how well we play at City.

the first game of any season will see lack of structure, chances at both ends, and poor tactical discipline.  This is especially true when we have so many new players to integrate.

I will gladly take a 2-1 victory today.

But mind - Rodgers is on his final warning.   ;)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2014, 10:59:01 PM
yes, we may be surprised at how well we play at City.

the first game of any season will see lack of structure, chances at both ends, and poor tactical discipline.  This is especially true when we have so many new players to integrate.

I will gladly take a 2-1 victory today.

But mind - Rodgers is on his final warning.   ;)

Totally agree Dude. Early season always sees some teams starting more slowly whereas one or two others hit the ground running pick up one or two results they certainly wouldn't do later in the season.
Some of the smaller teams have had full pre-seasons together or new players weren't playing in the WC, and are therefore fully rested or may have started their pre-season before transferring to the PL.
Meanwhile the bigger clubs have had players coming back in staggered numbers and therefore their squads have had less time together and individuals less of a pre-season before starting the league programme.

I picked up an interesting comment, or at least I hope it proves such and that he's learnt from the last three games of last season, of Rodgers' in one of the reported post match interviews:

" The three points was the most important I think. " and " To get the win was very important. ".

There was nothing about style, or the fact we didn't win 'a certain way' or bemoaning the lack of fluidity or control. It seems he understood that sometimes the result is the only thing that matters. How you get it is sometimes irrelevant.

I hope this isn't just first day relief, but rather a true understanding and acceptance that pragmatism ultimately triumphs over idealism.

Also he made a good point re with/without Suarez: " We had Luis Suarez here last year and it was a similar kind of game. "

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/brendan-rodgers-delighted-liverpools-character-4065780 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/brendan-rodgers-delighted-liverpools-character-4065780)

There's a lot of room for collective and individual improvement, but at least it feels better saying that after a win than a defeat.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2014, 11:18:49 PM
I think we'll know a lot more about where we are heading this season after the next two games. City away needs nothing said about it, and Spurs away, which is always a tough one for us (Sherwood's bunch aside) and with them winning on the opening day away from home against Sam's ale house 11 and Pochetino's massive influence and the way he plays which can be quite similar to our's, that's really tough one also.

If the results mirror the performance or we find ourselves just on the end of sheer misfortune, coming away undefeated after the first three games I think is cause for a certain degree of satisfaction and should give us a good foundation of self belief to build on.

Hopefully an appearance from Moreno or Enrique and another solid performance from Manquillo will mean the chances of having to see Glenn Johnson in a LFC shirt will diminish massively, especially once Flanno recovers from injury and the two youngsters can spur whichever one plays onto greater heights and they both relish the competition for a starting place.

I'd rather be prepared to be patient with Manquillo and Flanno, Manquillo especially having played so little first team football in his fledgling career, rather than have to tolerate Johnson's attitude.
As a senior player, playing for a new contract, you'd expect him to be busting a gut to lead the way, show the right examples and prove he's worth another contract.

C'mon Harry, you know it makes sense to have two England internationals in Ferdinand and Johnson, with all their combined experience, in your potential dogfight. You love your ex-players and making it a hat-trick of times you've managed him makes so much sense. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 17, 2014, 11:32:13 PM
A well thought out article:

Time for a change in Liverpool’s deep-midfield

http://thepremierleagueowl.com/time-for-a-change-in-liverpools-deep-midfield/ (http://thepremierleagueowl.com/time-for-a-change-in-liverpools-deep-midfield/)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on August 18, 2014, 02:04:25 PM
Yesterday we played 4-2-3-1.

I've been saying for the last year to 18 months to anyone that'll listen that 4-2-3-1 is going the way of the dodo.

It doesn't suit our players. We cannot play 2 central midfielders - with Gerrard and Lucas or Can. It MUST ALWAYS be 3 in the middle. Either 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-1-2 formations.

We scored our goal and was more fluid yesterday when we changed formation to 4-3-3.

Although I did think Lucas did a decent job of protecting Gerrard and being his legs on the pitch however as a flat 2 in the middle - as we saw - those two just weren't fluid enough. So we definitely must always play 3 in the middle.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 18, 2014, 08:50:15 PM
Yesterday we played 4-2-3-1.

I've been saying for the last year to 18 months to anyone that'll listen that 4-2-3-1 is going the way of the dodo.

It doesn't suit our players. We cannot play 2 central midfielders - with Gerrard and Lucas or Can. It MUST ALWAYS be 3 in the middle. Either 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-1-2 formations.

We scored our goal and was more fluid yesterday when we changed formation to 4-3-3.

Although I did think Lucas did a decent job of protecting Gerrard and being his legs on the pitch however as a flat 2 in the middle - as we saw - those two just weren't fluid enough. So we definitely must always play 3 in the middle.

4-2-3-1 like any other 'system' works or falls on it's bottom depending on the personnel employed. It's how the 3-1 aspect reacts to the turnover of possession. If you're essentially playing four attack minded players leaving two in midfield will see you over run like rats on fertility drugs. If your wider players in the 3 drop in beside to form a 4 across midfield as soon as possession is lost it can work.

One of the things you've always got to watch is if you use your full backs as the primary width providers is that they both don't go forward at the same time and that your flank in behind doesn't become the obvious target for a counter attack, otherwise you have to take one out of the centre of midfield to cover in behind leaving you exposed to an early ball infield from the flank, or one of your centre halves has to cover across leaving you short in the middle as there's no full back on the opposite side to cover 'around the back'.

Like you say Edward, if you play the 2 then they both need to be athletes. Two with limited mobility is asking for trouble, but even with a three, if your 2 wider players in the front 3 don't do their share either your full back gets doubled up against or you start leaving more space centrally with one of your three midfielders going across to help the full back.

I think Gerrard's role and all round effectiveness/contribution is going to need to be closely monitored, because as you said Lucas having to be Gerrard's legs is hardly the best thing.
One Clyne's goal, Gerrard was facing Clyne and just stood and watched him cut inside and made no attempt to get across and apply pressure, meaning it was left to Skrtel to try and get across to make a last ditch block.
We can't have players running from deep through us without either being tracked or closed down and being put under pressure by the red shirt nearest to them.
 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 20, 2014, 10:06:31 AM
I wish our players would shut up about being "stronger without Suarez".

Shut up and prove it, otherwise they're going to make themselves and the club look very, very silly.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 24, 2014, 06:27:50 PM
Recent Thoughts

1)  Remi - my thoughts as to why the deal fell through, probably are not publishable.  Speculation unwise.

2) Cardiff's Owner, Tan - Mackay and his sidekick were morons for writing such stuff, but Tan comes across as one of the biggest vindictive moronic as.sholes ever to have owned a club.  And he unleashed his poision on the day that Mackay was talking to Palace about their job.  Timing, eh.  Who in their right mind will take on the manager's job at Cardiff?  Nobody of any quality will take that job.

I am also dismayed at the way the law has now been changed.....allowing lawyers to get a search warrant, with no need for police or anyone else.  Big business, and those with money, can now bully and boss, little people around.  And tie that in with the way that the police work with the media (e.g. cliff richard); and the future looks like a very corrupt place. 

3) United......as expected, Van Gall is off to his usual poor start.  But the De Maria winger capture, is a good bit of business.  He will be his Munich type Robben at Old Trafford.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 24, 2014, 06:34:21 PM
4) Ballotelli - technically superb. 

Attitude - spoilt child, lazy bugger at times.

Usually gets off to a glorious start at his new clubs, before getting bored, and losing interest.

Our kid in the dugout, will take him under his wing, and share with him, a lifetime of worldly advice, about the pitfalls of life.

Milan couldn;t wait to get rid.  I think they would have paid us to take him.

But at the price, maybe he is a risk worth taking.

The London media will love it.....business as usual......the monster is gone, and a new one arrives.  They can still keep kicking Liverpool.  Racist barstewards, that they are.




Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 10:55:09 AM
If Balotelli can be the Balotelli of Euro 2012 on a consistent basis then he could be the signing of the Summer. He could go right to the top of the tree alongside £35M for Andy Carroll (and rejecting £40M + Sturridge) as the most ill thought out, moronic piece of transfer business in the club's history.

The manager's going to need much more than 'man management 101' to pull this off, but let's hope he cracks the puzzle.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 25, 2014, 11:25:23 AM
If Balotelli can be the Balotelli of Euro 2012 on a consistent basis then he could be the signing of the Summer. He could go right to the top of the tree alongside £35M for Andy Carroll (and rejecting £40M + Sturridge) as the most ill thought out, moronic piece of transfer business in the club's history.

The manager's going to need much more than 'man management 101' to pull this off, but let's hope he cracks the puzzle.

I was, however, a tad comforted by Pirlo's assurence he's matured over the past year. The tricky thing though is to allow him to be the genius that he can be which means we'll have to accept some extravagant behaviour. Just like Sturridge I'm confident he'll feel at home at LFC. Also a good thing Raiola came out to publicly state this is his last chance at the top level.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 04:05:29 PM
I was, however, a tad comforted by Pirlo's assurence he's matured over the past year. The tricky thing though is to allow him to be the genius that he can be which means we'll have to accept some extravagant behaviour. Just like Sturridge I'm confident he'll feel at home at LFC. Also a good thing Raiola came out to publicly state this is his last chance at the top level.

I've seen it a few times these last few days and I don't see any comparison between Sturridge (allegedly) and Balotelli where supposed attitude is concerned.

I'm not bothered about fireworks inside and pranging his car etc off the pitch. He can have a scat orgy every night if he wishes.
It's the sulking, lack of interest and not being prepared to work for the team, either making the runs that create space or provide a passing option for his team mates and the not working defensively to close down the opposition.
I don't expect him to track and chase back to his own goal line, but he does need to pressure centre halves and deep lying midfielders. He doesn't need to win the ball a single time, just put under pressure and force mistakes or backward passes. Also, he needs to be prepared to play in and pass to team mates in better positions rather than shooting wildly from daft positions and distances.

If he does those things, then he will be a bargain as I trust him to score goals. His goal rate is excellent considering the amount of game time he's wasted and if the manager can get him focused, like it looks like he did with Suarez to a degree (impressing Real and Barca not withstanding) last season, then we could have a real cracking player. The fans will make him feel loved, more than any previous club he's been at, so will his team mates and Rodgers will put in all the time effort with him.

It's ultimately up to him. Waste his talent and career or go done as the latest in a long line of Anfield heroes and a star within the PL.

His agent seems a tad more professional and less of a shark than the average agent, so maybe he will have the decency to work with his client and from a human perspective, not just a money making one.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 25, 2014, 07:24:14 PM
I've seen it a few times these last few days and I don't see any comparison between Sturridge (allegedly) and Balotelli where supposed attitude is concerned.

I'm not bothered about fireworks inside and pranging his car etc off the pitch. He can have a scat orgy every night if he wishes.
It's the sulking, lack of interest and not being prepared to work for the team, either making the runs that create space or provide a passing option for his team mates and the not working defensively to close down the opposition.
I don't expect him to track and chase back to his own goal line, but he does need to pressure centre halves and deep lying midfielders. He doesn't need to win the ball a single time, just put under pressure and force mistakes or backward passes. Also, he needs to be prepared to play in and pass to team mates in better positions rather than shooting wildly from daft positions and distances.

If he does those things, then he will be a bargain as I trust him to score goals. His goal rate is excellent considering the amount of game time he's wasted and if the manager can get him focused, like it looks like he did with Suarez to a degree (impressing Real and Barca not withstanding) last season, then we could have a real cracking player. The fans will make him feel loved, more than any previous club he's been at, so will his team mates and Rodgers will put in all the time effort with him.

It's ultimately up to him. Waste his talent and career or go done as the latest in a long line of Anfield heroes and a star within the PL.

His agent seems a tad more professional and less of a shark than the average agent, so maybe he will have the decency to work with his client and from a human perspective, not just a money making one.

You speak my sentiments spot on tes. I do have a feeling (wishful thinking if you like) he'll get his act together on pitch. What pleases me the most is that he's a genuine character rather than the dull and anonymous players we used to sign back in the 00's
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 25, 2014, 07:27:57 PM
Liverpool against the Citizens:

Mignolet; Johnson, Lovren, Skrtel, Moreno; Gerrard, Henderson, Allen, Coutinho, Sterling; Sturridge.

Apart from Skrtel I'm very OK with that line-up.

COME ON YOU REDMEN!!!!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 07:38:51 PM
Baptism of fire for Moreno and an easy time for City's left flank. There's more energy in the midfield than against Southampton, and hopefully Allen can help us keep possession better which will be vital to getting a decent result. Then we have the option of bringing on Can for Gerrard to give a further boost and then hold onto what we hopefully have by then.

At this stage of the window how depressing is it to see Glenn Johnson's name on the team sheet? I hope Manquillo and Flanno have been taking it in turns to whisper "I'm coming to get your place in the team" all week in training, or even better, both at the same time, one in each ear. A Scouse accent in one and a Spanish one in the other. If that doesn't fry his brain and motivate him then maybe a spell cleaning the changing rooms with a toothbrush at both Melwood and Anfield for a month may.

I wonder if Borini's even travelled or whether Rodgers is giving him another huge hint. Apparently Balotelli will be in the changing room after the game and travel back on the team coach. It's a good idea to get him included and hopefully 'feeling a part of things' as soon as possible.

Then it's all back to Mario's for a August Bank Holiday BBQ in the pouring rain.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 08:43:49 PM
Poor goal to concede. Coutinho got doubled up against with Moreno just standing watching, and was then slow to react and not aggressive enough to get to the clearance. Jovetic's shot went straight through Mignolet.

Maybe it would helped him to sit this one out and have a chance to study and understand the heightened level of intensity that is the PL compared to La Liga. One game, and I'm sure he'll learn.

45 minutes to make sure we get something out of the game and maintain a solid start to the season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 08:49:23 PM
We need to be more aggressive and decisive when attacking the ball in defensive situations. There has to be greater desire to always be first to the ball, especially when it is loose or semi loose.

We've more than enough to cause them problems but at this level we have to turn possession and any superiority into goals and then defend equally as efficiently and competently.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 08:59:22 PM
We need to be controlled and remember to lock the back door before venturing forward too much.

We can take something from the fact that we more than matched the Champions but concentration needs to be there for the entire match, not just most of it.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 25, 2014, 09:00:59 PM
Agree with most of your points tes. At the same time I can't help but feel the scoreline's a tad harsh on us as we were the better side for most of the half. Sloppy error by Moreno but hopefully he'll learn and get better.

We're too lightweight going forward and there's too much passing rather than going for the straight ball. Sturridge again is totally lost and it must be hell for Sterling and Coutinho to play in the forward direction.

If we are to get anything from this game Brendan has to find a way to make us more threatening.

MOTH Joe Allen. What a performance!!!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 09:57:25 PM
Agree with most of your points tes. At the same time I can't help but feel the scoreline's a tad harsh on us as we were the better side for most of the half. Sloppy error by Moreno but hopefully he'll learn and get better.

We're too lightweight going forward and there's too much passing rather than going for the straight ball. Sturridge again is totally lost and it must be hell for Sterling and Coutinho to play in the forward direction.

If we are to get anything from this game Brendan has to find a way to make us more threatening.

MOTH Joe Allen. What a performance!!!!
The score is not a reflection on the game but specifically when the opposition get in and around our goal. Mignolet needs serious competition. He either fights for his place and swims or he sinks. Either way we benefit.
He had a free run at being first choice last season, we now need to make sure he earns his place every game.
With the greatest respect to Brad Jones he can't and won't contribute to the above scenario.

City have the combination of silk and steel from the midfield to the front line. We don't necessarily have the power to impose our game through midfield. Sterling is still young and Coutinho is relatively, and Sturridge is at his first club as a regular first team player.

If we over buy for the future we risk losing the present as a foundation to build on. FSG can only apply business and certain models so far. Experience shouldn't be seen as another word for 'old' or 'no sell on value'.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 25, 2014, 10:01:24 PM
first signs of missing Dracula.

Despite all our pressure in the first half, no bite.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 10:04:59 PM
One positive from tonight is that Ricky has the account opening goal monkey off his back. A pretty decent goalscoring return for the few minutes he was one the pitch, and great determination, effort by Sturridge, even at 3-0 down, and a great ball in by him.

Steve Clarke. Needs a job. We need a defensive coach or our defence needs coaching. Make the call Brendan. He won't put your job under threat.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 10:08:35 PM
first signs of missing Dracula.

Despite all our pressure in the first half, no bite.

We had a kind start last season without him. If he'd have stayed the team would still have been the same tonight, but I know what you mean Dude, we don't have to just weather a storm, we have to find our own way out of it without his help.

Mario knows he now has to turn out to be Super.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 25, 2014, 10:15:19 PM
I think Super Mario will get off to a good start, Tes.

We can go on a great run now and be in the top 2 or 3 til Christmas.

With so many changes, we were always gonna splutter initially.  But we played City off the park for large parts of the first half.

I am not too down. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 10:52:43 PM
I think Super Mario will get off to a good start, Tes.

We can go on a great run now and be in the top 2 or 3 til Christmas.

With so many changes, we were always gonna splutter initially.  But we played City off the park for large parts of the first half.

I am not too down.

Let's remember the way City and Chelsea have been able to put their squads together. Our's was decimated by the Toxics, the hole was dug by the clueless Woy and Dalglish finished patting down the soil. How many players do we have remaining brought in by Hodgson and/or Dalglish/Comolli?

Player for player their team is better than ours but for mistakes we'd have finished equal and won on points (to use a boxing analogy).

Half our back four now have 3 games between them as a unit, a unit that includes Glenn Johnson. City's with the exception of Demichlas have as many seasons together.

Comparing the same games, this season, to last, we have 3 more points. A draw at Spurs won't be the worse start ever and get 2 of our toughest away games out of the way. Our history at WHL is poor, so whilst for other teams City and Spurs away aren't comparable, for us, they are.

Moreno did enough to keep his place ahead of Johnson being shunted across and Manquillo showed more than enough to regain his place. I can understand Rodgers going for experience and having two young full backs, one making his debut and the other with a single game in the PL, was too risky. The blame for the decision looking questionable post match, lies firmly with Johnson, not Rodgers. The manager has a right to expect more than he's getting from such an experienced player.

Moreno and Manquillo in their single appearances for the club have put Johnson well and truly to shame. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 25, 2014, 11:04:40 PM
Right now what I wouldn't give for a time machine and Dietmar Hamann to be in it.

Rodgers needs to dig out 100 hours worth of Didi on whatever digital/viewing format he likes and give Gerrard some homework.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 25, 2014, 11:05:45 PM
agreed.

City away is as hard as it gets.....so that one is out of the way.   Would have been nice to take a point, but it is what it is.

Yes, Johnston is a liability.    In his career, he has never entirely convinced me going forward - and he has always been poor at defending.

For me this season, Rodgers will get found out at the back.  Football is all about balance.  And the blame that he has previously placed on the defence, now will get found out.   The key issue has always been balance.

If you leave your defence and keeper exposed - you will concede goals.

Balance is something that Rodgers needs to learn.  Or else it will eventually be the end of him.   You have to know when to attack, when to sit deep, when to speed things up, when to slow them down.  And simply blaming players, or putting that responsibility on them, is not gonna wash.  They need guidance from the touchline during games.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 25, 2014, 11:08:07 PM
Right now what I wouldn't give for a time machine and Dietmar Hamann to be in it.

Rodgers needs to dig out 100 hours worth of Didi on whatever digital/viewing format he likes and give Gerrard some homework.

yes, with Didi sitting in front of the back four, we would have been visiting City tonight, as champions of England.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 26, 2014, 09:07:22 AM
first signs of missing Dracula.

Despite all our pressure in the first half, no bite.
;D ;D ;D Brilliantly put!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 26, 2014, 09:11:31 AM
Right now what I wouldn't give for a time machine and Dietmar Hamann to be in it.

Rodgers needs to dig out 100 hours worth of Didi on whatever digital/viewing format he likes and give Gerrard some homework.

Is true for all the mistakes we made on their opener Gerrard's inability to support the defence wasn't helping.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 26, 2014, 09:35:20 AM
agreed.

City away is as hard as it gets.....so that one is out of the way.   Would have been nice to take a point, but it is what it is.

Yes, Johnston is a liability.    In his career, he has never entirely convinced me going forward - and he has always been poor at defending.

For me this season, Rodgers will get found out at the back.  Football is all about balance.  And the blame that he has previously placed on the defence, now will get found out.   The key issue has always been balance.

If you leave your defence and keeper exposed - you will concede goals.

Balance is something that Rodgers needs to learn.  Or else it will eventually be the end of him.   You have to know when to attack, when to sit deep, when to speed things up, when to slow them down.  And simply blaming players, or putting that responsibility on them, is not gonna wash.  They need guidance from the touchline during games.

Dude, we've being saying this since the manager arrived. We discussed Swansea's 'style' which revealed the same.

Going forward we look well drilled, polished, practiced, everyone sure of their roles and each other's and how it all fits together. Defensively, all aspects of are the polar opposite. The lack of defensive aspects to the playing method or the complete lack of understanding of and practice at the defensive aspect of Rodgers' playing methods and philosophy is glaringly obvious. I keep trying to find improvements as I'm desperate to see it happening, even just a start,a glimmer to cling onto that might be built on.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 26, 2014, 09:50:36 AM
agreed.

City away is as hard as it gets.....so that one is out of the way.   Would have been nice to take a point, but it is what it is.

Yes, Johnston is a liability.    In his career, he has never entirely convinced me going forward - and he has always been poor at defending.

For me this season, Rodgers will get found out at the back.  Football is all about balance.  And the blame that he has previously placed on the defence, now will get found out.   The key issue has always been balance.

If you leave your defence and keeper exposed - you will concede goals.

Balance is something that Rodgers needs to learn.  Or else it will eventually be the end of him.   You have to know when to attack, when to sit deep, when to speed things up, when to slow them down.  And simply blaming players, or putting that responsibility on them, is not gonna wash.  They need guidance from the touchline during games.

I really don't think it was a case of playing an unbalanced side. Rather it was our inability to threat and score during the opening 35 that ultimately cost us. You could also make a case City was extremly effective and clinical scoring 3 from 4 shots on goal.

You would also have to ask Lambert how he could miss that sitter that would've taken us back into the game with almost 10 to play. Horrible, horrible miss that.

If I were to forward criticism to any one player today it would be Sturridge. He was exceptionally out of position for the entire game making it increasingly difficult for Sterling and Coutinho (who, together with Allen, dominated the midfield in the first 35) to bring him into play. Also, the few times he managed to get the ball under control he just went on to waste it - brilliant cross for Lambert though.

As I see it we're struggling to find an identity, a gameplan, a way to score goals in the post-Suarez era. In that sense we were a tad unlucky to play City away this early as I'm sure we'd be a different proposition a few months from now. But as Oliver Holt wrote so brilliantly in his post-game comments, we're too talented side to slip back into the shadows. But Rodgers really really need to give this idea of playing Sturridge up front in a lone striker role a second thought.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 26, 2014, 10:11:35 AM
Is true for all the mistakes we made on their opener Gerrard's inability to support the defence wasn't helping.

Martin, for me, Gerrard has always been an instinctive player who played on his emotions. In terms of importance to the club and impact on it, he's right there alongside Dalglish and Liddell as far as I'm concerned. He has vision, of course he does, but the two things he's always lacked or the other things have always overridden them, are real tactical understanding and the applied discipline that comes from it.

I also think that the long list of career injuries has caught up with him. It's not enough to have a deep sitting conductor if he can't get off the podium to pick up the conducting baton if he drops it.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 26, 2014, 11:31:54 AM
I really don't think it was a case of playing an unbalanced side. Rather it was our inability to threat and score during the opening 35 that ultimately cost us. You could also make a case City was extremly effective and clinical scoring 3 from 4 shots on goal.

You would also have to ask Lambert how he could miss that sitter that would've taken us back into the game with almost 10 to play. Horrible, horrible miss that.

If I were to forward criticism to any one player today it would be Sturridge. He was exceptionally out of position for the entire game making it increasingly difficult for Sterling and Coutinho (who, together with Allen, dominated the midfield in the first 35) to bring him into play. Also, the few times he managed to get the ball under control he just went on to waste it - brilliant cross for Lambert though.

As I see it we're struggling to find an identity, a gameplan, a way to score goals in the post-Suarez era. In that sense we were a tad unlucky to play City away this early as I'm sure we'd be a different proposition a few months from now. But as Oliver Holt wrote so brilliantly in his post-game comments, we're too talented side to slip back into the shadows. But Rodgers really really need to give this idea of playing Sturridge up front in a lone striker role a second thought.

Martin, I agree with you re Sturridge, however, we have to remember that we are the first club, (with the exception of his Bolton loan spell), where he has been a regular starter, game after game, and even then, he was always the support act, not the headliner. Now he has that role to learn.
It would be a monumental mistake to expect him to simply step in and take up where Suarez left off. It just can't happen. At least not instantly.

For me, Suarez was the best player in the world last season, above Messi and Ronaldo because of the sheer effort and interest he maintained when he or we didn't have the ball, so Sturridge alone can't replace Suarez, and as Sturridge's effect is going to change as he contributes towards replacing the Suarez effect, we are in essence replacing the combined effect of Suarez and Sturridge. If other's efforts aren't enough or what is required, then Sturridge's contribution will also be less effective overall.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 26, 2014, 12:09:28 PM
Martin, I agree with you re Sturridge, however, we have to remember that we are the first club, (with the exception of his Bolton loan spell), where he has been a regular starter, game after game, and even then, he was always the support act, not the headliner. Now he has that role to learn.
It would be a monumental mistake to expect him to simply step in and take up where Suarez left off. It just can't happen. At least not instantly.

For me, Suarez was the best player in the world last season, above Messi and Ronaldo because of the sheer effort and interest he maintained when he or we didn't have the ball, so Sturridge alone can't replace Suarez, and as Sturridge's effect is going to change as he contributes towards replacing the Suarez effect, we are in essence replacing the combined effect of Suarez and Sturridge. If other's efforts aren't enough or what is required, then Sturridge's contribution will also be less effective overall.

I think you're spot on Sturridge might need som time to settle in to his new role as the leading striker. Question, though, is whether being played in the lone striker role is gonna speed up or halt that development/acclimatisation? Or maybe looking to play him in a different set-up with two strikers might take som pressure off his shoulders.

I agree with you that Suarez was the best player in the world last season and losing him would always cause some sort of reaction. When even Gary Neville say the errors we committed last night is fairly easy to correct I'm not that worried. After all it was only Lovren's second game and Moreno's debut. Baptism of fire of sorts for both of them. I am, however, very critical of the fact Sakho's not being played. That one Rodgers really really got wrong.

I was also hugely impressed by Allen's performance. Along with Sterling and Coutinho and Henderson we completely took Toure and Silva out of the game (was Nasri even on the pitch?). So there's every reason to be positive this season can hold a surprise or two as well.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on August 26, 2014, 12:42:42 PM
ok....so saw the game...and thought we were unlucky in the first half cos we'd done pretty well....the glaring elephant in the room is gerrard and his age and stamina...i love the guy but as the game went on, we were completely overrun in defence and we need a mascherano type to bully and kill...

moreno looked good going forward and though he messed up for the first goal, he did at least make amends...
lamberts cameo means he will be a useful sub...something different...
can and markovic looked vaguely decent...a couple of nice touches...
thank god we have flanagan to take johnsons place...
steve clarke seriously needs to be brought back as defensive coach as our brendan is just winging it at the moment and hoping for the best....

gerrard needs a rest....and to be used sparingly behind the front two rather than in this defensive role....he aint up to it...

so overall, i thought we were ok...some dodgy mistakes but we showed promise....i would not be this optimistic if we hadnt got balotelli....but we have so we have a replacement for suarez...man city away though is the toughest game on the calendar and i was expecting a 1-0 loss to us...we need everyone to rally round ballotelli and i think he'll turn it on for us....play him and sturridge upfront....and we'll do well...wining the league though is another matter....top 4 and keeping manure out is probably top priority....

touch game now against spurs....its always interesting...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 26, 2014, 01:43:18 PM
ok....so saw the game...and thought we were unlucky in the first half cos we'd done pretty well....the glaring elephant in the room is gerrard and his age and stamina...i love the guy but as the game went on, we were completely overrun in defence and we need a mascherano type to bully and kill...

moreno looked good going forward and though he messed up for the first goal, he did at least make amends...
lamberts cameo means he will be a useful sub...something different...
can and markovic looked vaguely decent...a couple of nice touches...
thank god we have flanagan to take johnsons place...
steve clarke seriously needs to be brought back as defensive coach as our brendan is just winging it at the moment and hoping for the best....

gerrard needs a rest....and to be used sparingly behind the front two rather than in this defensive role....he aint up to it...

so overall, i thought we were ok...some dodgy mistakes but we showed promise....i would not be this optimistic if we hadnt got balotelli....but we have so we have a replacement for suarez...man city away though is the toughest game on the calendar and i was expecting a 1-0 loss to us...we need everyone to rally round ballotelli and i think he'll turn it on for us....play him and sturridge upfront....and we'll do well...wining the league though is another matter....top 4 and keeping manure out is probably top priority....

touch game now against spurs....its always interesting...

I agree with most, if not all of that. I actually thought Can looked good. Wasn't that impressed by him during pre-season but I really Think he has what it takes. Just need more gametime. Markovic looked lively when he first came on but seeing as both Sterling and Sturridge were spent he quickly became isolated on the wing.

As you say Rodgers MUST play two strikers from now on. I don't Think it's as much Gerrard's age an'all as it is the 4-3-3 formation as such and the vulnerability it creates down our flanks.

Johnson wasn't that good but I don't like this discourse that surround everything he does. Some people (not here) would probably blame him for Moreno's mistake. And I don't think for one second Flanagan is proper replacement.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 26, 2014, 01:43:53 PM
I was also hugely impressed by Allen's performance.

From the first two league games of the season, I think Allen has been our best midfielder. He made a real difference coming on against Southampton and he was head and shoulders above Henderson and Gerrard last night. I was particularly disappointed with Hendo's contribution to the second half.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 26, 2014, 02:44:54 PM
From the first two league games of the season, I think Allen has been our best midfielder. He made a real difference coming on against Southampton and he was head and shoulders above Henderson and Gerrard last night. I was particularly disappointed with Hendo's contribution to the second half.

Yeah, me too. I'm usually quite critical of Henderson but his first-half performance was nothing short of brilliant. Dunno what happened. Is it that we're young (too young?) seeing as so many of our players seems to fade after 55-60 minutes (e.g. Sterling, Coutinho, Sturridge, Henderson). Remember last season where we usually played brilliant in the first half just to virtually collapse in the second?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 26, 2014, 02:48:49 PM
Johnson wasn't that good but I don't like this discourse that surround everything he does. Some people (not here) would probably blame him for Moreno's mistake. And I don't think for one second Flanagan is proper replacement.

It's rather sad when "fans" are actually glad the guy's injured. It may be frustrating seeing his name on the team sheet, and his effort and application, both last season and so far this, his been far below what is required, but to be glad he got injured as a way of him definitely not playing is just wrong. All ways around.

What is disappointing is that as one of the most experienced and senior players he should offer much more and understand that when playing in a team with a lot of younger players you need to be a mentor and leader on the pitch and be prepared for errors which inexperience brings.

Flanno did very well, especially out of position, but it's rare to very a young defender who plays like an old pro, or who has both the positional aspect, the reading of the game and the knowledge of when to hold, when to commit etc and has the level of concentration required for every minute of the 90 and doesn't get caught ball watching or back on his heels at least once during a game.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 26, 2014, 03:35:00 PM
Yeah, me too. I'm usually quite critical of Henderson but his first-half performance was nothing short of brilliant. Dunno what happened. Is it that we're young (too young?) seeing as so many of our players seems to fade after 55-60 minutes (e.g. Sterling, Coutinho, Sturridge, Henderson). Remember last season where we usually played brilliant in the first half just to virtually collapse in the second?

I think steadiness of mind and ability to keep focus and concentration levels consistently high is something that just comes and happens with age, experience and maturity.

I think we still lack a real leader, not the lead by example sort, but an organiser, an encourager, a cajoler, a coach on the pitch, someone who talks the younger players through difficult moments and helps them keep their focus and intensity levels up. I see a lot of parallels between us and Arsenal post Viera and Gilberto Silva, where despite the talent and potential, they missed a leader and lacked a certain physical presence in midfield and compatible and high enough quality in defence and in goal.

The Mancs are going to struggle sans Ferdinand and Vidic, Chelsea soon will need to pull a replacement for Terry from somewhere. City have the quality of Kompany and the experience and guile of Demichelis.

Both City and Chelsea build from a position of strength that has been assembled over time and with plenty of money. We had a squad core and nothing else, so we're playing catch up in terms of depth, trying to add numbers whilst not diluting quality. We can't buy from the very top shelf to build a core squad of 16 and then expand the squad by upgrading, again from the very top shelf. We can't pay potential third and fourth choices the consolation salary of 3x or 4x what they're getting at their present clubs. Look at the choice of forwards City have. The wage bill for them alone must be eye watering.

We haven't been able to expand the squad with 9x £20M+ finished or near finished articles and we can't go adding a £20M+ centre half or full back every year until we get what we want.

Losing Suarez and needing to expand the squad means we have to make this season one of solidifying. We massively overachieved last season. It's only realistic to expect a more true levelling to occur this season, rather than going one better and winning the league. That in itself is real progress. To qualify for the CL (or a qualifier) two seasons running, whilst dealing with the demands of the CL isn't something we've dealt with as a club for a good few seasons, so is it realistic to suddenly expect that we challenge aggressively, going one better and winning the league, whilst also acclimatising to the different demands of CL and the travel involved?

City, having spent more than us didn't just go straight into the CL places and then leapfrog to the top of the league the following season despite adding players of a quality level we realistically still can't hope to afford.

The squad Ranieri left was better than the one Dalglish/Comolli left for Ambramovich and Mourinho to build on, and to think Chelsea could afford to pay £24M for Wright-Phillips to be the club mascot. £24M back then!!!!

I know it's an unpopular idea, but like Bart referred to, Gerrard with the status he rightfully holds will be a brake on progress at it's hard for Rodgers to be 'the manager that binned Steven Gerrard'.
Paisley had the credit of league titles, UEFA and European Cups in the bank when he swiftly dispatched the likes of Emlyn Hughes and Tommy Smith etc, Phil Thompson also as the local lad made good who went onto to captain the idols of his boyhood. He had the luxury of being able to acquire a player in the mould of Dalglish to replace Keegan. Paisley, a bit like Rodgers, had notice the previous Summer that a replacement was required. Unfortunately there is neither a like for like replacement, and even less so, a player that could take us to even greater heights than Suarez helped us to last season.

Being a Liverpool fan beats any rollercoaster ride any American theme park can come up with.   ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on August 26, 2014, 05:52:40 PM
"Bring back Steve Clarke"

I need to rant and I apologise in advance to those advocating bringing back Steve Clarke or what you perceive as a "Defensive Coach".

This isn't American Football where you have the head coach, defensive coach and offensive coach.

In Football there is just plain and simple COACHES. Of course you have coaches that are offensive MINDED and defensive MINDED.

Every coach has methods they like to use and those methods are used to define a system or tactics used in a game.

For us having a coach who is an expert on defence is pointless, but because the whole training system would have to change. You can't just do a "bit" of defending. You have to do defending every single week, allied to the system, and connected to the attack.

A defensive coach effectively means we need a new manager.

I think each one of our defenders have different principles when it comes to defending by the look of yesterdays game. But it should be easily remedied by having fixed drills and training sessions. But Rodgers must rectify this by doing that.

If we want to win the league, though, we have to score goals. That means being more open at the back than some of you would like. That is a fact whether you like it or not. To win the league you need to score goals - and I mean over 80 goals at the very least.

By all means we could hire a defensive minded manager ala GH or Rafa but we didn't win the league under either of those two because we didn't score goals. Of course we won trophies but in the league both failed.

There's a lot wrong with our defending, and our defensive coaching but from what I can see it can be easily fixed and I hope Brendan can see that.

Oh also I seem to remember Arsenal hiring Steve Bould to supposedly help their defensive issues. But did he?

After all, Arsenal are no better or worse than before they hired Steve Bould.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 26, 2014, 07:03:40 PM
"Bring back Steve Clarke"

I need to rant and I apologise in advance to those advocating bringing back Steve Clarke or what you perceive as a "Defensive Coach".

This isn't American Football where you have the head coach, defensive coach and offensive coach.

In Football there is just plain and simple COACHES. Of course you have coaches that are offensive MINDED and defensive MINDED.

Every coach has methods they like to use and those methods are used to define a system or tactics used in a game.

For us having a coach who is an expert on defence is pointless, but because the whole training system would have to change. You can't just do a "bit" of defending. You have to do defending every single week, allied to the system, and connected to the attack.

A defensive coach effectively means we need a new manager.

I think each one of our defenders have different principles when it comes to defending by the look of yesterdays game. But it should be easily remedied by having fixed drills and training sessions. But Rodgers must rectify this by doing that.

If we want to win the league, though, we have to score goals. That means being more open at the back than some of you would like. That is a fact whether you like it or not. To win the league you need to score goals - and I mean over 80 goals at the very least.

By all means we could hire a defensive minded manager ala GH or Rafa but we didn't win the league under either of those two because we didn't score goals. Of course we won trophies but in the league both failed.

There's a lot wrong with our defending, and our defensive coaching but from what I can see it can be easily fixed and I hope Brendan can see that.

Oh also I seem to remember Arsenal hiring Steve Bould to supposedly help their defensive issues. But did he?

After all, Arsenal are no better or worse than before they hired Steve Bould.

Far too black and white. It is obvious, for those who care to look and face up to what they see, that into his third season here, our manager's tactics, philosophy, training ground drills, etc whilst producing polished attacking, that looks slick and well practised, everyone sure of their place and role and confidence surging through the team, the defensive side of our game, the entire defensive side of our game, not just the right and left back, two centre halves and goalkeeper, but the entire side of the our game, our method, our playing style, call it what you want, ain't working. It is as poor as our attacking and in possession play is good. It's night and day.

Edward, if you truly think there is any analogy to be made with Yankee Rugby, a point you've tried to throw at us before, then I'm truly stumped. The manager and his team of coaches, collectively, individually, however it's not happening, do not appear to have either the ability to coach or the ability to get a message, that could work if understood, across to the players, like they are with, shall we call it, 'the non-defensive aspects off our game'.

As you the coaches and manager should collectively and individually be able to coach all the aspects of the game, so when combined, effective football is the result.

There is a void in the skill set. Why would all the other coaches and Rodgers coach as they are now whilst Steve Clarke would coach in isolation. Why can't he fit into the current system but with his strength lying in a different area to those within the current set-up.

The crux of your counter argument is your perception of what you think people perceive a 'defensive coach' to be. Maybe the term 'defensive coach' needs altering so it isn't taken at absolute face value and in it's most simplistic meaning.

Also this being able to defend means you won't score goals argument. Look at last season's league table. Explain to me how Man City managed to score more than us and concede 13 less.

The numbers of goals scored and goals conceded are irrelevant in isolation. It's how they translate into results.

One less goal conceded against Everton away, Chelsea away, and City away, and one more conceded against Hull away, Cardiff away and Stoke away would have rendered 4 more points, though the totals of goals scored and conceded remain the same.

"You can't just do a "bit" of defending." - You're trying to ridicule and counter an argument that hasn't even been made and I've never seen anybody advocating or making.

"But it should be easily remedied by having fixed drills and training sessions." - so are you saying that's not being done. If so, that's gross negligence and our manager needs a bullet (which I'm not advocating or wanting at all). So we have to presume they are being done. But to what positive effect? So maybe those "fixed drills and training sessions" need to be taken by someone who will actually produce a positive end result on the pitch, or they need to be changed and modified, because either way, "they just ain't working".

Re your Rafa/Houllier example - I'll give you Roy Evans. That didn't work either.

"There's a lot wrong with our defending, and our defensive coaching but from what I can see it can be easily fixed and I hope Brendan can see that." - the first part we all agree with, can see and is absolute and indisputable fact. Upon the same page we all dwell. And the second part. Snap. If I could have a genie grant me a wish it would be that.

So either Brendan can't see it or he can and chooses to ignore it or he can but either doesn't know how to fix it, or however he has approached the solution it hasn't and isn't working. It didn't at Swansea, it didn't in his first two seasons with us and there is no evidence going into the third of it doing so either.

We all know something needs to change. It has been that way since day one of his reign, which is perfectly understandable as players get used to him and his methods and he gets used to the players at his disposal.
I can understand it remaining the same if he had to make do with the same personnel as he did on day one, and had simply had no chance to change any of them. I'd fully understand that scenario and have every sympathy with him and for him.
But that's simply not the case.

Edward, I'm not having a pop, and I don't want to dismantle your argument for the sake of it, and I'm not disagreeing for the Hell of it, or because the manager's name is A, B or C. It's not about personalities in any way, simply the team that represents Liverpool Football Club can't defend anywhere near the required for what we all hope to achieve, and this is not a new thing but neither does it show any sign of improving into season 3.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 27, 2014, 03:37:26 PM
Far too black and white. It is obvious, for those who care to look and face up to what they see, that into his third season here, our manager's tactics, philosophy, training ground drills, etc whilst producing polished attacking, that looks slick and well practised, everyone sure of their place and role and confidence surging through the team, the defensive side of our game, the entire defensive side of our game, not just the right and left back, two centre halves and goalkeeper, but the entire side of the our game, our method, our playing style, call it what you want, ain't working. It is as poor as our attacking and in possession play is good. It's night and day.

Edward, if you truly think there is any analogy to be made with Yankee Rugby, a point you've tried to throw at us before, then I'm truly stumped. The manager and his team of coaches, collectively, individually, however it's not happening, do not appear to have either the ability to coach or the ability to get a message, that could work if understood, across to the players, like they are with, shall we call it, 'the non-defensive aspects off our game'.

As you the coaches and manager should collectively and individually be able to coach all the aspects of the game, so when combined, effective football is the result.

There is a void in the skill set. Why would all the other coaches and Rodgers coach as they are now whilst Steve Clarke would coach in isolation. Why can't he fit into the current system but with his strength lying in a different area to those within the current set-up.

The crux of your counter argument is your perception of what you think people perceive a 'defensive coach' to be. Maybe the term 'defensive coach' needs altering so it isn't taken at absolute face value and in it's most simplistic meaning.

Also this being able to defend means you won't score goals argument. Look at last season's league table. Explain to me how Man City managed to score more than us and concede 13 less.

The numbers of goals scored and goals conceded are irrelevant in isolation. It's how they translate into results.

One less goal conceded against Everton away, Chelsea away, and City away, and one more conceded against Hull away, Cardiff away and Stoke away would have rendered 4 more points, though the totals of goals scored and conceded remain the same.

"You can't just do a "bit" of defending." - You're trying to ridicule and counter an argument that hasn't even been made and I've never seen anybody advocating or making.

"But it should be easily remedied by having fixed drills and training sessions." - so are you saying that's not being done. If so, that's gross negligence and our manager needs a bullet (which I'm not advocating or wanting at all). So we have to presume they are being done. But to what positive effect? So maybe those "fixed drills and training sessions" need to be taken by someone who will actually produce a positive end result on the pitch, or they need to be changed and modified, because either way, "they just ain't working".

Re your Rafa/Houllier example - I'll give you Roy Evans. That didn't work either.

"There's a lot wrong with our defending, and our defensive coaching but from what I can see it can be easily fixed and I hope Brendan can see that." - the first part we all agree with, can see and is absolute and indisputable fact. Upon the same page we all dwell. And the second part. Snap. If I could have a genie grant me a wish it would be that.

So either Brendan can't see it or he can and chooses to ignore it or he can but either doesn't know how to fix it, or however he has approached the solution it hasn't and isn't working. It didn't at Swansea, it didn't in his first two seasons with us and there is no evidence going into the third of it doing so either.

We all know something needs to change. It has been that way since day one of his reign, which is perfectly understandable as players get used to him and his methods and he gets used to the players at his disposal.
I can understand it remaining the same if he had to make do with the same personnel as he did on day one, and had simply had no chance to change any of them. I'd fully understand that scenario and have every sympathy with him and for him.
But that's simply not the case.

Edward, I'm not having a pop, and I don't want to dismantle your argument for the sake of it, and I'm not disagreeing for the Hell of it, or because the manager's name is A, B or C. It's not about personalities in any way, simply the team that represents Liverpool Football Club can't defend anywhere near the required for what we all hope to achieve, and this is not a new thing but neither does it show any sign of improving into season 3.

Wow, that's one hell of a post. Very well put and argued tes. Even I, one of Rodgers staunchest advocates, am slowly starting to think he may not have what it takes to keep the goals coming and reducing the influx at the other end. I am willing though, to give Lovren and Moreno some time, of course but what really upsets me is his persitence with keeping Sakho on the bench.

I find it peculiar that so many people criticize Johnson for his performance on Monday but ultimately fail to direct any criticism towards Lovren despite being partly/heavily responsible for all their goals. The way I see it he had a stinker. Edward may be right though, and Neville seems to agree, those errors aren't particularly difficult to correct. Lets hope so.

More interesting is the team's ability to defend, rather than the back 4. For the opening 35 minutes we displayed a very composed, disciplined and focused defensive game. We gave away nothing, absolutely nothing. Then they put us under siege for two minutes and that was enough for us to commit a series of silly mistakes. I don't know, but playing 4-3-3 requires immense physical energy and a work rate that makes Kuyt look lazy. Even my manc mate said: "I do wonder if you're gonna be able to play this game for 90 minutes seeing as it builds on the premise Sterling and Coutinho both attacks and defend.". It turned out, much to my pain, he was right. This 4-3-3 seems to make us so God damned vulnerable down the flanks which means our CB's need to play closer to the FB increasing the space for opponents to attack through the middle.

I don't know, but with Balotelli in the boat, Sturridge not ready to be the sole leader up front, I could see us go with 4-4-2 for a while. Surely that would help us develop and improve our defensive game.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 27, 2014, 03:43:39 PM
I think we still lack a real leader, not the lead by example sort, but an organiser, an encourager, a cajoler, a coach on the pitch, someone who talks the younger players through difficult moments and helps them keep their focus and intensity levels up. I see a lot of parallels between us and Arsenal post Viera and Gilberto Silva, where despite the talent and potential, they missed a leader and lacked a certain physical presence in midfield and compatible and high enough quality in defence and in goal.

You didn't mention Keane.  :D

I know it's an unpopular idea, but like Bart referred to, Gerrard with the status he rightfully holds will be a brake on progress at it's hard for Rodgers to be 'the manager that binned Steven Gerrard'.

Yeah, it's hard to accept a Liverpool team without Steven Gerrard. At the same time the question pops up every now and again whether he's stalling progress or not.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 27, 2014, 04:57:05 PM
You didn't mention Keane.  :D

 :D  Robbie had a lot to say but very little worth listening to. £20M for the perfect air shot. What is it about boyhood Reds who play up front. Boyhood Bluenoses have a far better track record for us,
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 27, 2014, 05:01:17 PM
Yeah, it's hard to accept a Liverpool team without Steven Gerrard. At the same time the question pops up every now and again whether he's stalling progress or not.

It will seem odd, but we've always had our "irreplaceable, how are we going to manage without him" players, and yet somehow we do. I'd hate to see Gerrard's contribution tarnished in any way or to see a shell of a player out there. Likewise, I'd hate to see him become a figure of fun for other club's fans. A figure of hate means he's doing something right, but a figure of fun would be sad to see.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 27, 2014, 11:18:52 PM
:D  Robbie had a lot to say but very little worth listening to. £20M for the perfect air shot. What is it about boyhood Reds who play up front. Boyhood Bluenoses have a far better track record for us,

Ehm, I had another Keane in mind, or maybe that was you point.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 28, 2014, 12:02:55 AM
Ehm, I had another Keane in mind, or maybe that was you point.  ;D

The Alf Inge Haaland appreciation society has asked me not to comment.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 28, 2014, 10:03:20 AM
The Alf Inge Haaland appreciation society has asked me not to comment.  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 30, 2014, 07:43:48 PM
When do we play Stoke? I hope it isn't any time soon.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on August 30, 2014, 09:44:08 PM
agreed.

City away is as hard as it gets.....so that one is out of the way.
Man City 0 - Stoke 1
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 30, 2014, 09:56:56 PM
Man City 0 - Stoke 1

The joys and frustrations of the English Premier League.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 31, 2014, 12:16:07 PM
Got a bad feeling ahead of today's game. For the first time I really think Rodgers is struggling. Struggling to find the right formation, struggling to find his best XI, struggling to find a way for us to score.

Sorry to be Dr. Sadness but I fear a gruesome defeat today.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 12:58:13 PM
Got a bad feeling ahead of today's game. For the first time I really think Rodgers is struggling. Struggling to find the right formation, struggling to find his best XI, struggling to find a way for us to score.

Sorry to be Dr. Sadness but I fear a gruesome defeat today.

Don't apologise, Martin, we all have differing outlooks on football related issues. It's what makes the game so fascinating and keeps coming back for more (torture).

For the first time, probably in his fledgling managerial career, he is faced with choices, rather than the team pretty much picking itself.
Spurs have got off to a great start. Lamela is like an additional signing and the squad seems to have adjusted to Poch's ay of playing very quickly.

We knew our start was a tough one, made harder by having to revamp the defence and they've not had a chance to play together through pre-season.

I said at the start of the season that a win and two draws from the first three games would be solid and I've seen nothing to change my mind. Whilst 3 points is obviously better than 1, and whilst Chelsea won again, and City lost, I still don't see the pressure for 3 points, as great as it would be, and we need to avoid falling into the trap of thinking we have to go all out for 3 points and end up leaving the back door open and getting picked off, just because of yesterday's results.

Before we can start looking up the table or thinking of challenges, we have to get a solid base defensively sorted out in order to be able to build a challenge of any sort on.

Whoever the manager is/was, losing the world's best player from last season, and not just the goals, means we have to attempt to deal with that and the problem we've had for the last two seasons also.

We have to sort both those issues out to progress and doing that would be progress in itself and allow us to build and progress sustainably over the next few seasons.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 01:07:30 PM
Starting line ups for today:

Tottenham: Lloris; Dier, Kaboul, Vertonghen, Rose, Bentaleb, Capoue, Chadli, Eriksen, Lamela, Adebayor.

Liverpool: Mignolet, Manquillo, Lovren, Sakho, Moreno, Henderson, Gerrard, Allen, Sterling, Sturridge, Balotelli.


Probably the best team we could put out with Can not yet truly match fit and Lallana still on the recovery trail and finishing his pre-season conditioning.

Spurs have a top class keeper, but their defence looks nothing special on paper. Eriksen, Lamela, Adebayor and is where their strength lies and will be a huge test for us to keep them quiet.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 31, 2014, 01:13:58 PM
I said at the start of the season that a win and two draws from the first three games would be solid and I've seen nothing to change my mind. Whilst 3 points is obviously better than 1, and whilst Chelsea won again, and City lost, I still don't see the pressure for 3 points, as great as it would be, and we need to avoid falling into the trap of thinking we have to go all out for 3 points and end up leaving the back door open and getting picked off, just because of yesterday's results.

Cheers for that tes!

I don't mean to sound like I've reverted back to the bring-Rafa-back-camp  :D but I think you're spot on here. It is time for Rodgers to apply some good old fashioned pragmatism. Had he applied it against Chelsea we would've lifted no. 19. Same today. We don't need to win this one. A draw is a good result although my hopes was we could get at least 5 points from these 3 games. 3 would be a disastrous start, however.

I also Think Rodgers is facing choices but in another context. Thus far it's been all about the installment of this free flowing footy which turned out successful last season. But we will never be able to rebuild our status as a titlechallenging side unless we can balance it with a more composed game like City and Chelsea do so well.

Here's hoping we can get a result today.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 01:44:38 PM
Cheers for that tes!

I don't mean to sound like I've reverted back to the bring-Rafa-back-camp  :D but I think you're spot on here. It is time for Rodgers to apply some good old fashioned pragmatism. Had he applied it against Chelsea we would've lifted no. 19. Same today. We don't need to win this one. A draw is a good result although my hopes was we could get at least 5 points from these 3 games. 3 would be a disastrous start, however.

I also Think Rodgers is facing choices but in another context. Thus far it's been all about the installment of this free flowing footy which turned out successful last season. But we will never be able to rebuild our status as a title challenging side unless we can balance it with a more composed game like City and Chelsea do so well.

Here's hoping we can get a result today.

It's the one thing some of us (aka 'Bring back Rafa' camp, apparently  ;D ) have found frustrating. We will play positive football, even when being 'pragmatic', and nobody wants a return to the 'worst of Gerard Houllier' or Roy Hodgson's parody of how British football was viewed in the 70s, and there's nothing wrong with having an 'ideal', but it's when that becomes blinded and turns into idealism or being idealistic that the problems start.

Our most successful manager was the ultimate pragmatist.

I think the force of nature that was Luis Suarez made it harder last season to be more balanced and we were forced to play to our very obvious strength because our weakness was very weak, and now with our obvious strength having diminished somewhat, at least until everybody has bedded in and settled into to all aspects of being at the club, and maybe so even then, pragmatism becomes even more important, but should also be easier to instill and adapt to.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 02:04:46 PM
1-0. Suarez Sterling. A brilliant pass with the outside of his left foot by Suarez Sturridge into Hendo's path, who squared a perfectly weighted ball for Raheem to slot it in superbly with his left foot.

Just like the opening goal against Southampton, Sturridge had pulled out to the right and Sterling had filled in centrally. It's why I'm so p!55ed that a certain player from a certain London club, managed by a certain manager, didn't arrive, as he is perfectly suited to playing in our fluent and ever interchanging forward line.
It's rare such a perfect fit becomes available at such a great price. What do cardiologists know about football anyway?  ;D

http://www.thickaccent.com/2014/08/31/vine-raheem-sterling-goal-puts-liverpool-1-0-up-against-tottenham/ (http://www.thickaccent.com/2014/08/31/vine-raheem-sterling-goal-puts-liverpool-1-0-up-against-tottenham/)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 03:10:59 PM
We have Stoke to thank for starting the trait of the weekend of the underdog or away team.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 03:12:24 PM
And 'uur Albert' makes it three:

http://www.thickaccent.com/2014/08/31/vine-alberto-moreno-scores-his-1st-liverpool-goal-v-tottenham-3-0/ (http://www.thickaccent.com/2014/08/31/vine-alberto-moreno-scores-his-1st-liverpool-goal-v-tottenham-3-0/)

Note, the run Sturridge makes to the back post to provide an option, and Sterling holds his run a second and creates himself space and clear path into an area of space in the area should the need arise. Fluid forward lines. "You gotta luv um."
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 03:13:52 PM
Now, the most important part of the game is a clean sheet, as the old lady in the Chinese laundry will tell you.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 03:25:30 PM
The media are already dissecting Balotelli's every on pitch move.

Striker in missed chance shocker. First football he's play all Summer. He's still in pre-season rusty mode.

What's more important is how he's fitting in to the team's play. Considering he's known his team mates for 5 minutes and a couple of training sessions the early signs are more than encouraging.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 03:30:25 PM
Two goals so far in three games. Raheem is looking like he can improve on his 9 league goals last. It's the only way Suarez could be replaced - collectively.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 31, 2014, 03:31:22 PM
Man City 0 - Stoke 1

 :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 31, 2014, 03:32:52 PM
Got a bad feeling ahead of today's game. For the first time I really think Rodgers is struggling.

I fear a gruesome defeat today.

Nostrodamus walks among us.

 :D ;)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 03:33:18 PM
:D

I've always sung Mark Hughes' praises as loudly as possible.  ;D If there was any justice in football he'd still be City's manager.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 03:35:06 PM
Nostrodamus walks among us.

 :D ;)

Accompanied by his bezzie mate Quasimodo.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 31, 2014, 03:36:14 PM
;D ;D ;D Brilliantly put!

 :D    Thanks Martin.


Dracula is dead, long live Dracula.

Great to see us putting Spurs to the sword today. 

Getting this type of great result early in the season, will be great for the confidence of our players - especially Sterling.

Going to White Hart Lane and playing dazzling football, is a fine achievement.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 31, 2014, 03:38:03 PM
Now, the most important part of the game is a clean sheet, as the old lady in the Chinese laundry will tell you.

 :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 03:38:55 PM
6 points from the first three games is a better start than I'd expected. It's a pity we gave up all three points to City, but we can right that wrong later in the season.

Against a team that have been scoring goals freely so far this season, a clean sheet, away from home is really promising. Unlike last season when we  started off with a few, lets hope we can keep this going all season, and our goal difference has now been given a good boost, to boot. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 31, 2014, 03:41:25 PM
I've always sung Mark Hughes' praises as loudly as possible.  ;D If there was any justice in football he'd still be City's manager.

 :D

very true.

Been a great weekend.

City lose at home against Stoke....United struggle and pick up a point against Burnley.  Two points out of nine.

United are up to their necks in debt, and spending a whole further pile more this summer (including massive salaries).

I love our fluidity.

Great goal for Moreno.  Ballotelli had a good debut.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on August 31, 2014, 03:43:55 PM
6 points from the first three games is a better start than I'd expected. It's a pity we gave up all three points to City, but we can right that wrong later in the season.

a point would have been nice.

but I look at it, as that was possibly our hardest game of the season.....so, everything else is gravy.

our goals and fluidity today, will give the lads great confidence.....they will now begin to realise that there is indeed life after Dracula.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on August 31, 2014, 04:00:37 PM
Excellent game to watch and i was more than pleased with the result.
The 2 spanish fullbacks looks excellent and solid.
Lovren is excellent as a defender but fairly useless going up field but i'm hoping he'll get better and better at that, sakho was good and bad in equal measure.
Allen and Gerrard played well and as for Sterling he was superb.
good debut from Mario and once he finds his shooting boots he will be a real danger and his tracking back was nice to see, sturridge was a constant threat and henderson mopped up.
Overall a top win.
Thank christ Gerrard has given up the internationals cos he can at least recharge now.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on August 31, 2014, 05:07:10 PM
Never had a bad feeling about this game. Always felt we'd beat them and todays performance and result just reinforced my view.

It was a fantastic performance and the set up for the first goal was excellent. Moreno's goal was superb. Offensively he's like Riise but with huge defensive upgrades compared to Riise.

£27m for Shaw and £12m for Moreno  ;D  ;D

Lovren was outstanding today. I thought after the first 15-20 minutes Sakho did well too. He was a bit rusty the first 20 minutes but after that he was excellent.

Henderson majestic again. Allen did the job Brendan wanted him to do, but he was slightly disappointing. But tactically he did the job.

Sterling and Sturridge were very good. Balotelli had two early chances but again rustiness meant that he fluffed those chances. But he worked very hard which was good to see.

For me our next six games will show me whether we will challenge for the title or instead for the top 4.

Our next six are:- Villa (h), West Ham (a), Everton (h), WBA (h), QPR (a), Hull (h). Those set of fixtures rounds off October.

If we can get 14 plus points from those fixtures I truly believe a title challenge is on the cards again. 9 - 14 points then its a top 4 challenge. So for me those set of fixtures will either give us the momentum for a title challenge heading into the winter schedule or just fighting for 4th.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 05:12:52 PM
Excellent game to watch and i was more than pleased with the result.
The 2 spanish fullbacks looks excellent and solid.
Lovren is excellent as a defender but fairly useless going up field but i'm hoping he'll get better and better at that, sakho was good and bad in equal measure.
Allen and Gerrard played well and as for Sterling he was superb.
good debut from Mario and once he finds his shooting boots he will be a real danger and his tracking back was nice to see, sturridge was a constant threat and henderson mopped up.
Overall a top win.
Thank christ Gerrard has given up the internationals cos he can at least recharge now.

Sakho reminds me of a cross between Lillian Thuram and Djimi Traore. If he could just stick to be the former I'd be quite happy.

Hopefully Lallana is 'excused' from England duty, Can can get himself totally fit and Gerrard can spend a fortnight watching DVDs (or whatever space age technology overpaid footballers use) of a certain Dietmar Hamann.

We need to hope England doesn't break Sturridge or Sterling and Balotelli gets a couple of weeks to finish his pre-season conditioning a buy some decent boots. I'm sure Puma would do him a few pairs of Kings or even better, SPA Kings out of top quality calf leather, none of this Woolworths 'Winfield' plastic rubbish.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 31, 2014, 05:58:52 PM
I'm happy to eat humble pie all season if that's what it takes. But in honesty we would've been trashed by a better team. Lovren is indeed a liability and even Sakho had a few unusual mistakes today but that might be down to lack of playing time.

Our best 2nd half performance since, Tottenham away. Even Gerrard had a good 2nd half after his disastrous opening. Sterling grows by each game but his finish for 4th was among the lamest I've seen.

All in all it turned out a comfortable victory despite the numerous silly and totally unnecessary mistakes we commited. Let this be a warning or we'll soon get punished.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on August 31, 2014, 06:14:29 PM
I thought Lovren was outstanding actually. Showed great leadership and made some crucial tackles plus showed great strength.

First 20 minutes I agree both centre back made mistakes but after that both were pretty excellent in my opinion.

He went for ball when it was on Sakho's side. Pretty sure that is because he is used to being on the left. He was on the right hand side today so he took a good 20mins getting used to that adjustment and as a result of that plus Sakho's rustiness we saw Spurs have some real good chances.

Lovren prefers to go in for the tackle and press rather than stand off and in some cases I think that is what we need to go in for the tackle rather than stand off all the time.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on August 31, 2014, 06:25:22 PM
I thought Lovren was outstanding actually. Showed great leadership and made some crucial tackles plus showed great strength.

First 20 minutes I agree both centre back made mistakes but after that both were pretty excellent in my opinion.

He went for ball when it was on Sakho's side. Pretty sure that is because he is used to being on the left. He was on the right hand side today so he took a good 20mins getting used to that adjustment and as a result of that plus Sakho's rustiness we saw Spurs have some real good chances.

Lovren prefers to go in for the tackle and press rather than stand off and in some cases I think that is what we need to go in for the tackle rather than stand off all the time.

But we saw on Monday what his willingness to go in for the tackle means. It was his decision to press forward that opened the space for Silva to play through our back-4 for their second. As I said, I don't want to whine but it's important we give an honest and critical account of our performance. And while it was very good for most of the game, the outcome would've been different I'm sure against a better side. Lovren's made a promising start in terms of presence and leadership, I'd hate to see that undermined by silly and clumsy mistakes. I still rate Sakho as our best CB.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on August 31, 2014, 08:38:43 PM
We have to remember that Sakho has more than double the amount of games for the club than the other three's totals put together, and he wasn't the automatic choice from the start of last season, or this.

I think Lovren took a bit of time to settle into playing on the right, which is understandable. He's had two different centre half partners and three different fullbacks outside him in three games.
Which ever pairing are chosen are going to need to understand each other's game. Whoever plays alongside Lovren is going to have to learn to be prepared to drop off a touch if their own situation allows and be ready to cover in behind.
If Lovren and Skrtel are paired then the communication will have to be crystal clear and each will have to adapt their 'natural' game somewhat depending who's best placed to commit when and if the need arises.

We had some luck but how many times have we been on the end of goal glut where the opposition only had the same amount of chances as goals scored as they were much more clinical than on average.

It was great to see the City defeat had not blunted confidence or self belief, and that's a crucial collective quality to have.

Villa up next and they are the early stage's form team (Chelsea excepted of course). Hopefully the international break disrupts their momentum, and allows us to get one or two players up to speed and Lallana back.

Who are the Dutch up against this fortnight? We do with Vlaar tiring out. He's carried on his World Cup form for Villa.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 01, 2014, 08:40:52 AM
We have to remember that Sakho has more than double the amount of games for the club than the other three's totals put together, and he wasn't the automatic choice from the start of last season, or this.

I think Lovren took a bit of time to settle into playing on the right, which is understandable. He's had two different centre half partners and three different fullbacks outside him in three games.
Which ever pairing are chosen are going to need to understand each other's game. Whoever plays alongside Lovren is going to have to learn to be prepared to drop off a touch if their own situation allows and be ready to cover in behind.
If Lovren and Skrtel are paired then the communication will have to be crystal clear and each will have to adapt their 'natural' game somewhat depending who's best placed to commit when and if the need arises.

In parts I beg to differ, tes. His decision to go for Sakho's ball had little to do with having been moved to the right and more to do with poor reading of the game/awareness, although I agree he might need a few games to get familiar in that slightly different position (it's hardly like he's been asked to play to the left in an attacking front Three). The same when he clumsily lost the ball in the center of the park. He's too pro-active, too aggressive which causes the back-four, the defending unit, to lose it's positional sense. This, in turn, contributes to pressure being invited as the positional confusion transpires to the rest of the team. As I already said, it was very costly against City and a better team than Spurs would've killed us in the first half yesterday despite all the free-flowing attack we demonstrated in the opposite direction. I still think he's gonna be a great signing, but the glowing reviews he's recieved in many places I feel are a tad misplaced and OTT.

Other than that I have to say I'm slowly starting to change my mind on Henderson (NB! starting to  :D ). He was instrumental in helping us control the midfield yesterday and his ability to move into a more central position to help Gerrard out in the second half was a great display of his tactical flexibility and maturity. Allen, again,  also proved instrumental in helping us control the center of the park just as he did against City. I would say the three CM's are picking themselves as of now. On top of that, I'd say Allen's been our best player thus far, bar Sterling.

Some say Sturridge had his best game of the season yesterday (was anything else possible?). I do not recognise him from last season, however. He seems to have rolled back to where he was in the spring of 2013 when he signed, opting for the difficult and tricky option instead of keeping it simple and putting himself in positions where he can utilize his explosive speed. Hopefully he can retain the directness and clinical finishing that was so prominent in his game last season.

I was a tad worried ahead of the game. Maybe it's a case of being let down so many times you don't dare to Dream, dare to hope, as you expect things to go downhill after such a brilliant 2013/14 season? In any case I must admit that yesterdays game (bar the odd individual mistake I've moaned about already) showed me we're actually a much better proposition than I thought. Most papers in Sweden celebrates Liverpool victory and pour praise on Rodgers and the team this morning. It was a long time the last time that happened this time of year.

Villa at home up next. A fixture we've struggled to get a result from under Rodgers. IMHO, this represents a good chance to prove to ourselves and the rest of the league we've well and truly moved on from Suarez.

Rant over.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 01, 2014, 01:23:47 PM
The Villa game is far harder in reality than it looks. A 3-1 home defeat and 2-2 draw after going 2 down, as you say Martin, is our very poor record under Rodgers.

This is exactly the sort of game we measure progress by. Apart from the obvious contenders, Villa along with Swansea are the form team in the league at the moment and we have to make sure we get a victory during their 'purple patch' as there will be plenty of easier 3 points available for our rivals at home against Villa once normality returns.

Additionally, if we want to progress and look to be a regular challenger, we have to find ways to beat certain teams that have proved to be a nemesis in the past. Hull City (any Steve Bruce team) are another I'm looking forward to seeing us find a way around this season, and Selhurst Park is another unhappy hunting ground (be it Palace or when Wimbledon played there) where we need to start righting previous wrongs.

Three points, no matter how many or few goals and a clean sheet against Villa would be a confidence booster, as the players will be just as aware as us about their recent shabby home record. I've got a feeling we'll have to grind out the victory against them but knack enables you to pick up the crucial difference making extra two points, which in turn decides if you'll be an "also ran" or a challenger.

Either Balotelli getting his account open or a last minute game changing goal from Ricky Lambert against his namesake would do nicely, thankyou.  ;D 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 01, 2014, 01:39:32 PM
The Villa game is far harder in reality than it looks. A 3-1 home defeat and 2-2 draw after going 2 down, as you say Martin, is our very poor record under Rodgers.

This is exactly the sort of game we measure progress by. Apart from the obvious contenders, Villa along with Swansea are the form team in the league at the moment and we have to make sure we get a victory during their 'purple patch' as there will be plenty of easier 3 points available for our rivals at home against Villa once normality returns.

Additionally, if we want to progress and look to be a regular challenger, we have to find ways to beat certain teams that have proved to be a nemesis in the past. Hull City (any Steve Bruce team) are another I'm looking forward to seeing us find a way around this season, and Selhurst Park is another unhappy hunting ground (be it Palace or when Wimbledon played there) where we need to start righting previous wrongs.

Three points, no matter how many or few goals and a clean sheet against Villa would be a confidence booster, as the players will be just as aware as us about their recent shabby home record. I've got a feeling we'll have to grind out the victory against them but knack enables you to pick up the crucial difference making extra two points, which in turn decides if you'll be an "also ran" or a challenger.

Either Balotelli getting his account open or a last minute game changing goal from Ricky Lambert against his namesake would do nicely, thankyou.  ;D

Amen to that. At the same time I think this "grind out"-thingy is starting to become a way to paper over the cracks when managers and players alike referr to it. Did Chelsea grind out a result against us in April? If so then I'm all for the idea of grinding out results once and agan. But more often than not, at least as far as we're concerned, grinding it out is way to describe a less coherent, composed and strong performance. I'm thinking Sunderland at home, Sot'on at home on the opening day. These are games where you could argue the final result had nothing to do with grinding it out, but rather inability on the opponents part to score or that Mignolet made a stunning save or that we were just plain lucky.

I do not accept grinding out results unless we do it like Chelsea did against us, where they were in full control despite spending no more than 10 minutes of the game on our half. Or like the Scum did 08-12.

Oh, and while I still remember, I'm not sure my heart will manage another season with Mignolet. He's pretty much the anti-thesis to Reina as far as playing with his feet goes.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 01, 2014, 01:41:20 PM
In parts I beg to differ, tes. His decision to go for Sakho's ball had little to do with having been moved to the right and more to do with poor reading of the game/awareness, although I agree he might need a few games to get familiar in that slightly different position (it's hardly like he's been asked to play to the left in an attacking front Three).

I think in part it's down to not knowing your partner and therefore 'taking responsibility' in a situation where none needed taking. Also, whilst switching from left to right may seem a small change, it's in those moments where you have to make an instant decision and judgement that the disorientating effect can occur. Reactions can be instinctive and instincts rely on what we've learned and experienced previously. It simply takes over and dictates. In certain situations he is more likely to react 'instinctively' than in a more controlled manner and in a less familiar position (however slight) it can increase the chances of reactions being instinctive than comfortably controlled.

You'd expect a pro, especially a right footed one, to be able to go from the left to right side comfortably, especially he's going on to the side of the foot he favours, but at the end of the day they're still human and I guess the human aspect trumps the professional or more highly skilled aspect.

Hansen's stated a few times he hated it if he ever had to switch sides. I'll trust his judgement over mine.

Defensively we're very much still a work, at least I hope, in progress.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 01, 2014, 01:43:12 PM
Oh, and while I still remember, I'm not sure my heart will manage another season with Mignolet. He's pretty much the anti-thesis to Reina as far as playing with his feet goes.

Dude, have you hacked Martin's account?  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 01, 2014, 01:59:59 PM
I think in part it's down to not knowing your partner and therefore 'taking responsibility' in a situation where none needed taking. Also, whilst switching from left to right may seem a small change, it's in those moments where you have to make an instant decision and judgement that the disorientating effect can occur. Reactions can be instinctive and instincts rely on what we've learned and experienced previously. It simply takes over and dictates. In certain situations he is more likely to react 'instinctively' than in a more controlled manner and in a less familiar position (however slight) it can increase the chances of reactions being instinctive than comfortably controlled.

You'd expect a pro, especially a right footed one, to be able to go from the left to right side comfortably, especially he's going on to the side of the foot he favours, but at the end of the day they're still human and I guess the human aspect trumps the professional or more highly skilled aspect.

Hansen's stated a few times he hated it if he ever had to switch sides. I'll trust his judgement over mine.

Defensively we're very much still a work, at least I hope, in progress.

Fair enough tes, you argue your case very well. I really see your point and realise I agree with it. Come to think of it, this labelling him as the new leader upon his arrival may have put some pressure on him to, as you put it, take responsibility where none needed taking? If that's the case he should be less errorprone in the near future.

It is a work in progress and you only need to look at Chelsea and City to realise how far off we are from being the finished deal.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 01, 2014, 02:05:06 PM
Dude, have you hacked Martin's account?  ;D

 :D

On a serious note I know I've been a tad negative on things of late. Reckon it stems from my fear we'll slip back to oblivion as we've done so many times before after having had that "almost there" season. It would absolutely break my heart if we failed to build on last season's progress. I seriously can't see a way back to footy if that is to happen. It's not me being a fickle or gloryhunting fan, it's more to do with the fact you can only experience so  many false dawns until it gets to you and as we all know we've had our fair share of those over the past 25 years.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 01, 2014, 02:14:16 PM
Amen to that. At the same time I think this "grind out"-thingy is starting to become a way to paper over the cracks when managers and players alike refer to it.

Grinding out a result is the human way of reacting to and dealing with the adversity and problems caused by the inherent flaws in the human design.

Unfortunately no team will ever 'click' 100% of the time. Sometimes it's just a collective off day. The better a team is when it 'clicks' the greater the difference and potentially the harder to deal with it is as you're further removed from the norm. If you can still find a way somehow to haul yourself over the finish line it's got to be better than simply being "when you're cr@p you're totally cr@p".

If you're grinding out results every game then there is an inherent problem, but if you simply don't click now and again, which is totally understandable, then it's a great ability to have.

If the Villa game goes the way of the Southampton game, then so be it. Our start to the season is one of the worse you could ask for.
The opening home game against a team we lost at home to last season, and that was after a decent start to the season,  and our second home game against a team we've yet to beat at home under this manager and against who we've conceded 5 goals in two games, losing one 3-1 after being picked apart so easily and the other we had come back from 2-0 down.

I'll happily settle for 6 points 'ground out' against teams we managed a single solitary point against last season in the same games. Winning instills belief. Still winning when not playing well is an even bigger boost to that belief.

If we're still looking like this and talking in these terms after Christmas then we've become Everton under Walter Smith.

Chelsea had a plan. They kept us out, kept us easily at arm's length and when a mistake came they took full advantage. That's pretty clinical and incisive though not pretty. Ultimately they got three points, and that's all the record shows.

Sometimes you just have to enjoy the end result if not the method it was gained by. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 01, 2014, 02:17:55 PM
:D

On a serious note I know I've been a tad negative on things of late. Reckon it stems from my fear we'll slip back to oblivion as we've done so many times before after having had that "almost there" season. It would absolutely break my heart if we failed to build on last season's progress. I seriously can't see a way back to footy if that is to happen.

Then the Summer (or supposed Summer months) will come along, and you'll realise that even though you may want to do without it, you simply can't. It's great being a football fan and lover of football, however tortuous it can be on the soul.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 01, 2014, 02:26:09 PM
It's not me being a fickle or gloryhunting fan,

If that was the case you wouldn't be here after 24 league titleless (if that's even a real word) years, showing the undoubted passion that you do.

If we didn't care we'd have no emotions and without emotion there'd not be all the different reactions we all display on all.

You can divorce a wife or husband. Your football club is something that you'll never be free from. Someway, somehow, it'll drag you back for more.

Enjoy the ride, where there's football fandom, there's life.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 01, 2014, 02:27:50 PM
If that was the case you wouldn't be here after 24 league titleless (if that's even a real word) years, showing the undoubted passion that you do.

If we didn't care we'd have no emotions and without emotion there'd not be all the different reactions we all display on all.

You can divorce a wife or husband. Your football club is something that you'll never be free from. Someway, somehow, it'll drag you back for more.

Enjoy the ride, where there's football fandom, there's life.

Cheers for that mate!  :)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 01, 2014, 09:02:58 PM
Dude, have you hacked Martin's account?  ;D

 :D

And you should see what 'Martin' is gonna say later this week, about what the team has lost with no Rafa to guide it.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 01, 2014, 09:08:12 PM
enjoyed reading both your sets of posts.

the ability to grind out results is essential for any team that wants long term success.....because we cannot play awesome every week - but we do need to get a result every week (be it an away draw, or a home victory).

I am positive about the club post Suarez.

I think we will go on a run of results, these next couple of months.

yes, Hull and Villa re always tough.  But I think we have too much in the locker.....and we have a tight team unit, who are clearly enjoying their football, and willing to die for each other.

I do worry about our ability to change tactics, during a game.  Brendan needs to develop more this season, as a manager. 

But I am positive.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 01, 2014, 10:55:59 PM
Apart from his two hasty purchases of a couple of familiar faces in his first Summer window, I've got a feeling these purchases are all 'his', rather than a mixture of his and the committee's.
I think there's been a change, coming about when he signed his new contract, in that whilst there may be consideration and even identification by committee, the absolute decision, at least on the footballing side is definitely the manager's, and only the financial side could end up vetoing a potential purchase.

There just seems more of a theme to the signings. There's a rationale to each of them, and I think only the lack of a buyer for the grossly overpaid Glenn Johnson, has meant Manquillo on loan rather than getting a permanent signing in there.

Only another keeper (though Edward will disagree  ;D) and a defensive midfielder are the missing pieces, but I'm glad to see that a firm hand is being kept on the finances despite the increased revenue from TV and CL, as we've got an expansion to the ground to pay for and the less long term debt we take on the better. Also, we've still got quite a few unused and unwanted players on the books and we can't just keep adding to the wage bill without getting some off also.

Additionally, we've got to keep within FFP, as we can't afford a fine or a cap like the oil funded teams can.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 05, 2014, 10:24:15 PM
I absolutely hate international breaks and especially when our players have to turn out for the God of Anti-football:

Sturridge to miss England's Euro 2016 qualifier with Switzerland through injury

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-striker-daniel-sturridge-7728892 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-striker-daniel-sturridge-7728892)

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 05, 2014, 10:57:31 PM
With Sturridge out I'm in two minds (both of which I've lost) about wanting Rickie Lambert to replace him for England. On the one hand it will give him much need match time and a chance to play alongside Sterling, both of which would benefit us.

On the other hand if the same thing happens to him as has happened to Sturridge, then it probably means Borini gets in the side against Villa until he damages his shoulder again pulling his laces too tight.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 08, 2014, 08:47:56 AM
Now Hendo's injured:

England hit by Jordan Henderson injury blow for Switzerland qualifier

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/07/england-jordan-henderson-injury-switzerland (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/07/england-jordan-henderson-injury-switzerland)

I bet his training methods are out of some annual he got for Christmas as a kid. The first year they weren't written by quill. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 08, 2014, 05:20:10 PM
Borini: Italy return no priority

http://www.football-italia.net/55648/borini-italy-return-no-priority (http://www.football-italia.net/55648/borini-italy-return-no-priority)

I'd rather have a mature, down to earth, determined player like Borini than someone like Johnson who just seems to be going through the motions and waiting to get his free transfer, seemingly having decided he can't be arsed anymore as we won't give him the long term contract (a year extension has been offered) he wants, and bizzarely thinks he deserves.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 09, 2014, 12:21:39 PM
Villa is arguably the hardest game we've faced so far this season. There's more expectation on this one than the last two, probably more even than the Southampton game considering the seasons they both had last season.
Then there's the pressure of improving on both the poor performances and results from the past two seasons, and Villa are the form team in the league, considering their resources even compared to Swansea, who have started with 3 wins, and Villa's start is despite the massive uncertainty surrounding the status of the club's ownership, and the consequential lack of funds available.

It'll be interesting to see if Rodgers goes with Balotelli upfront in a 3, or gives him a partner and who that partner will be.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 11, 2014, 02:41:47 PM
Sturridge out for about 3 weeks and Emre Can for 6 with an ankle injury, thanks to International Football. Skrtel we knew was a risk but is out of the Villa game, a is Glenn Johnson.

It's a good job Sakho and Lovren survived the internationals. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 12, 2014, 09:53:34 AM
From:

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers upset with England over Daniel Sturridge injury

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11090915/Liverpool-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-upset-with-England-over-Daniel-Sturridge-injury.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11090915/Liverpool-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-upset-with-England-over-Daniel-Sturridge-injury.html)


"Although the information regarding Sturridge’s tailored training programme was provided to Roy Hodgson – and the Liverpool striker made his worries known – he was still told to fully participate.

Another 'test of resolve'? Hodgson's stuck in some sort of time warp. The man's a danger to professional footballers.

Next time Sturridge needs to refuse to do something that he knows is a danger to his health and fitness. What's Hodgson going to do? Drop him? Hardly, he has little enough talent in his squad trying to thrive despite him and his 'methods'.

"Sturridge’s recovery time puts him on course to return just before Hodgson names his squad for England’s next European Championship qualifiers in October. " - or just in time for him to break him again. We need to do something to protect him. He won't be 100% in every way by the time Hodgson wants to thrash him to the limits again.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 12, 2014, 10:56:56 AM
Liverpool FC boss Brendan Rodgers demands lessons are learned by England after Daniel Sturridge injury blow

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-boss-brendan-rodgers-7758479 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-boss-brendan-rodgers-7758479)


" Rodgers stopped short of directly criticising former Reds boss Hodgson but he’s hoping England will work more closely with Liverpool in future.

“I haven’t spoken to Roy since the guys returned,” Rodgers added.

“I’m waiting for England to call us on it.


“Roy has probably been led by some of the experts, the sports science staff around him, and for whatever reason Dan was deemed able to train.

“It’s just something knowing the players well you have to recover them individually after games. You can’t think that one recovery fits everyone.

“Hopefully we can communicate in the future more. It’s about maximising the player’s availability to play.”
"


I think if it happens again then Rodgers will take a different approach. I think he's been incredibly tolerant in the situation. International managers have to realise the players belong to the club, and they are borrowing them for a period. International football isn't the season, it's a small part, and the approach to a player's fitness and conditioning has to be handled with the entire season in mind, not just being fit for international usage. If Hodgson had have taken the 'entire season view' then he'd have had the benefit of having Sturridge available.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 13, 2014, 04:56:16 PM
Today's teams:

Liverpool: Mignolet, Manquillo, Lovren, Sakho, Moreno, Gerrard, Henderson, Coutinho, Markovic, Lallana, Balotelli.

Substitutes: Jones, Enrique, Lucas, Toure, Sterling, Lambert, Borini

Aston Villa: Guzan, Hutton, Baker, Senderos, Cissokho, Westwood, Delph, Cleverley, Richardson, Agbonlahor, Weimann.

Substitutes: Okore, Bacuna, Bent, Sanchez, N'Zogbia, Given, Grealish


I think it's a good idea to rest Sterling, especially after Hodgson failed to break him at least. Hopefully one of Balotelli, Lallana or Markovic get their debut Anfield goal. Maybe it's a bit greedy to ask for all three of them, plus Lambert coming of the bench for his, and the wee man from Brazil getting his account open for the season.  ;D

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 13, 2014, 06:16:15 PM
Why is it Paul Lambert seems able to be able to nullify a Rodgers' team when Villa are away from home, but are truly awful against everybody else, home and away.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 13, 2014, 07:31:46 PM
Man that was bad.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 13, 2014, 07:48:25 PM
the least said the better (about that pig ugly showing).
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 13, 2014, 11:03:36 PM
Too many new players who'd either never or hardly ever played together.

"We will always concede more as we play so openly". I wonder what the excuse reason will be now.

We didn't play open attacking football, and still we can't defend. Maybe some pride needs to be swallowed and some help brought in as it's becoming more and more obvious that there is no-one in the coaching/management staff that can organise us defensively or change what needs changing.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 13, 2014, 11:51:20 PM
First of all congrats to Villa on what will be their best performance of the season. You can now lay down and get ready to fight relegation, because you will.

Out of the title race after 4 games. It goes a long way to show last season was, after all, a one off. True there were many new players but the lack of competence and quality was alarming. One created chance in 90 minutes against a shitty side (yes they are a fornicating shitty side) makes me realise next season we may be without European footy again.

Worst of all, after 30 minutes you could feel in every fiber in your body we weren't gonna score. I'm fornicating giving up on this. Coutinho, Gerrard and Henderson were all shambolic.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 14, 2014, 12:47:16 PM
First of all congrats to Villa on what will be their best performance of the season. You can now lay down and get ready to fight relegation, because you will.

Out of the title race after 4 games. It goes a long way to show last season was, after all, a one off. True there were many new players but the lack of competence and quality was alarming. One created chance in 90 minutes against a shitty side (yes they are a fornicating shitty side) makes me realise next season we may be without European footy again.

Worst of all, after 30 minutes you could feel in every fiber in your body we weren't gonna score. I'm fornicating giving up on this. Coutinho, Gerrard and Henderson were all shambolic.

Martin, if we're realistic we massively overachieved last season in coming close to winning the title. Additionally, although we had a weaker squad than our competitors we had a clear run at the league only.

We were/are unlikely to actually compete for the league again this season, considering the added games (which I realise don't apply at the moment), the loss of a player like Suarez from a squad of our size and level of quality, and the fact we've chosen to make a lot of purchases and they all need time to settle and gel, both individually and collectively.

If we look at the number of new players, debutees, players returning from injury and the number of games that entire starting 11 has actually played together, then it's not too surprising that they looked somewhat disjointed, however, the amount of poor individual performances were worrying. I can accept players being unfamiliar with each other, but not their own individual roles and their ability to carry out the basics of football.

I think we have to look at last season as a one off. It was not our true level, and our true level is still some way below City and Chelsea, for very obvious reasons, and are in a group (if most things work for most of the teams) with Arsenal, the Mancs, Spurs and Everton, plus any "surprise package" challenging for the remaining three European places (2 CL plus the UEFA Cup).

We have definitely deepened the squad overall without strengthening the 'best' first 11, though we have more options for alternative first 11s of a better standard than anything we had last season (Suarez excluded).

Deepening the squad quickly was always a risk. Too many additions always makes it hard for the team to have consistency for the first half season.

My worry with this committee nonsense is that the manager needs to know he will get exactly who he wants (finance permitting) rather than the additions being done by 'majority decision'.

When you look at our last two Summer windows they seem somewhat haphazard and a 'scattergun' approach. And where was the plan to cover the "distinct possibility" of Suarez leaving? We got away with the buyout clause or whatever last Summer, but his new contract in December obviously removed any ambiguity and therefore made his leaving an even more distinct possibility, or at least much easier should the player choose to do so.

But the right players are only half the equation. Until we add a defensive solidity and aspect to our game, "hit and run" defeats will keep happening.

I think going forward we have to accept this season as a 'next stage' transition, where we've had to add depth and numbers and therefore we have to wait and be patient (to a degree) for all those new pieces to fit into the puzzle.

However, the manager needs to accept that the defensive deficiency is not just down to individuals or individual mistakes, but that the setup and method of playing can bring increased pressure and that has to be factored in on the training ground and plans in place to restrict the effects. Also, we look like we don't even practice defensive basics. The players don't look confident or self assured, things that being well drilled and well practiced at, brings. Yesterday's performance was not down to over committing when attacking. It was just rank poor basic defending.

Villa will struggle. Their drop down the table may even begin in the next game, but Villa's dominance over us at Anfield during the entirety of Rodgers' time here is a far more worrying problem than Villa's seasons overall.
What they do against other teams is really irrelevant, apart from the points our rivals gain against them, which does impact us. It's our performances and the ease with which Lambert sets Villa up to 'deal' with us that's the worry.

Opposition managers now have 3 Villa games to watch and learn from. The past results weren't one offs, they are part of a pattern.

Hold on in there, Martin. The ride will be anything but boring.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 14, 2014, 03:40:29 PM
You echoe many sentiments of mine there, tes mate. I realised long ago we played well above our true level last season but would hate to see all the progress that actually have been made undone by slipping back into oblivion this season.

Although there were a lot of new faces in the team (I don't think the back-4 have more than 30 PL-games between them) we also had a couple of experienced players on the pith, all of whom refused to raise to the occasion in terms of offering leadership and stability. I'm very disappointed with Gerrard and Henderson. They should offer their teammates much more than they did. Coutinho, I'm not disappointed with, I just don't think he is any better than this. He's only brilliant when we're allowed to play counter attacking footy when he gets the time and space to unleash Sterling, Sturridge, etc. He just haven't got the ability to unlock teams like Silva, Fabregas or Cazorla do.

Some might criticize Balotelli but he never really got anything worthwhile to work with. Having said that I think his movement could've been better and smarter at times but that might be down to the gelling thingy.

All in all this was a blow to our top-4 aspirations. United will not be far off after they beat QPR at home and Everton will also keep up the pace. This feeling you can't see where the goals' are gonna come from gets me really down. 20 million for Markovic? Really?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 14, 2014, 07:52:52 PM
20 million for Markovic? Really?

It's to see it at the moment, but as the modus operandus is to buy young players, the fees are about "what they could be", not what "they actually are", so I guess we just have to be patient. It's hard though when we've paid the fees we have to not see a more immediate return for it.

Balotelli did OK. He kept his temper really, really well with Senderos and Hutton being allowed to kick him all over the place without the ref seeming to care. That is a good sign.

We have to learn against teams like Villa that work hard defensively that we have to work even harder finding space, moving the ball quickly, snappy passes, with options each time a player receives the ball to be able to play his pass quickly. That requires effort from our players. We didn't see that yesterday. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 14, 2014, 09:56:22 PM
new players will always take time to gel.

but what I find very worrisome, is that basic defending is still beyond us.

and that when we don't juggernaut the opposition in the first 30 minutes of a game, we seem lost for any new ideas.

I think that tactically, we are very limited, and defensively, we are farcical at times.

Without a world class striker to force the opposition back, this season, and create and score goals for fun......this season, we are gonna keep shipping goals, but struggle to hit back as prolifically as we did last season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 14, 2014, 10:51:11 PM
new players will always take time to gel.

but what I find very worrisome, is that basic defending is still beyond us.

and that when we don't juggernaut the opposition in the first 30 minutes of a game, we seem lost for any new ideas.

I think that tactically, we are very limited, and defensively, we are farcical at times.

Without a world class striker to force the opposition back, this season, and create and score goals for fun......this season, we are gonna keep shipping goals, but struggle to hit back as prolifically as we did last season.


Brilliant summary, Dude. We seem to be working our way gradually through the whole squad of the Keystone Cops. You could put together a montage of our defending from last season and this, turn it sepia, add a few grainy scratches and speed it up and you'd have a classsic to rank up there with anything Chaplin or the like ever did. Senderos, yes the same Senderos that the apes man is descended from are descended from, lost his marker with consummate ease several times, with exactly the same move, which in itself constituted simply moving. The defensive mistakes are so basic that they don't get any more basic.

We may not have Suarez, but in his absence everyone else should be stepping up their work rate. Talent is harder to come by but everyone can excel in the work rate stakes. Henderson's game was cramped playing deep next to Gerrard, and that had the effect of making Gerrard even less effective.
We also missed Allen. There, I said it. He's not exactly the biggest or the strongest, but he's like a pesky little fly you can swat but not kill and that keeps buzzing back for more.

The problem with Balotelli up there on his own is that unlike Sturridge or Suarez, he's not as comfortable pulling out of the middle and working from out to in, and hence allowing our front line to be fluid and interchangeable. It makes defending against us easier. If we can't get in behind because of a very deep line then we have to play quickly into feet and play one touch, with our forward line interchanging much more frequently, crisscrossing and keeping changing the direction and angle of passes allowing an interchange of angled passes rather than straight ones which are easier for defenders to deal with. Bellamy was always so good at that and making those little runs which left dangerous space to utilise and making runs which split the focus and attention of the centre backs. 

When Villa had a lot of possession early on we didn't use their attacking intent against them to counter attack at pace, or move the ball swiftly enough when we regained possession. Even when teams come to sit deep and defend, you can undo them by sheer weight of passing and moving if the space is utilised well, with the ball moving quickly all the time, and they are forced to chase the ball for 90 minutes. It's hard to keep focus for the entire 90 if the movement you're trying to defend against requires intense concentration. Everything about us was ponderous and pedestrian making Villa's job of defending far too easy.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 14, 2014, 11:29:02 PM
You are all missing the very obvious reason why we lost and looked soooooooo bad.

4-2-3-1.

I keep telling people that formation is dead. For us anyway. It is dead. We play that formation we'll always be like this.

Gerrard cannot play in a "2" in the midfield. Certainly not as part of a two in that formation.

Henderson also has his wings clipped in that formation because he natural game which has improved beyond all our wildest dreams is as part of a 3 man midfield not a two man midfield.

Quite frankly we have no players now that can play in a 2 man midfield apart from Emre Can.

For me we really missed Joe Allen yesterday because he would have started meaning we'd have had three in midfield and thus have the control of the game.

With 4-2-3-1 we couldn't gain any momentum in our attacks. We were too open at the back and played too many crosses.

We are dependent on the system it seems and tbh that is no bad thing as the system does work whether its 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-1-2.

Markovic btw has amazing talent he's going to be fantastic. Lallana too. I agree with Martin on Coutinho and I think Lallana and Sterling are certainties to start over him in our Best XI.

No way is Rodgers leaving out Lallana having shelled out £25m and much more importantly Lallana being his No.1 signing this summer. Plus Sterling is our most important offensive player.

I thought Balotelli could have done more but at least he behaved having been kicked all over the park.

Again I agree the defensive issues are occuring time and again. Let's just hope we work on it in the upcoming months.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 14, 2014, 11:46:02 PM
You are all missing the very obvious reason why we lost and looked soooooooo bad.

4-2-3-1.

Because we may have 'omitted' to mention it does mean we " missed it".  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 14, 2014, 11:50:47 PM
Let's just hope we work on it in the upcoming months.

For that to be the solution would suggest that we haven't done so previously. If not then that's criminally negligent of Rodgers.

If we have done so, then what we're seeing is the culmination and cumulative effect of more than two seasons' "work".

I'm not sure which one makes me shudder the most.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on September 15, 2014, 09:48:05 AM
It's taken me 2 days to calm down and be less pissed off at Rodgers.
As soon as i saw the team sheet i went uh oh...
So psychologically, we have a bogey team in villa so what does Rodgers do? Rest our best player and don't play the same formation as we did against spurs. Villa must have loved that and been given a great boost.
Agreed with Edward that the formation played is shiite with gerrard and henderson in that midfield 2...wastes both players abilities...
What winds me up about Rodgers is that he can never do wrong, which is a very dangerous mindset when things do start to crumble...
I think all of us on here have been saying we need to tighten up in defence and def midfield and while rodgers has in fairness strengthened the defence, the glaring hole in midfield is there to see...

Oh and what the hell was mignolet doing for their goal???? Defence can also be undermined by worrying about the keeper. Reina sold for 3 mil and agger who could have played in a defensive midfield role sold for 3 mil. Utter joke.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 15, 2014, 10:36:38 AM
Because we may have 'omitted' to mention it doesn't mean we " missed it".  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 15, 2014, 11:01:16 AM
It's taken me 2 days to calm down and be less pissed off at Rodgers.
As soon as i saw the team sheet i went uh oh...
So psychologically, we have a bogey team in villa so what does Rodgers do? Rest our best player and don't play the same formation as we did against spurs. Villa must have loved that and been given a great boost.
Agreed with Edward that the formation played is shiite with gerrard and henderson in that midfield 2...wastes both players abilities...
What winds me up about Rodgers is that he can never do wrong, which is a very dangerous mindset when things do start to crumble...
I think all of us on here have been saying we need to tighten up in defence and def midfield and while rodgers has in fairness strengthened the defence, the glaring hole in midfield is there to see...

Oh and what the hell was mignolet doing for their goal???? Defence can also be undermined by worrying about the keeper. Reina sold for 3 mil and agger who could have played in a defensive midfield role sold for 3 mil. Utter joke.

Careful Bart otherwise you'll need to borrow my GTN spray, mate.  ;D

The thing with the defence is that it's not just about the personnel. We could have Beckenbauer, Baresi, Maldini and Phil Neal  :D, all in their prime, and we'd still concede easily. The defensive side of our game always looks as unpractised and worked on as the attacking side (at least last season) looks polished and perfected.

Has the defence undermined Mignolet's confidence and belief, is it the other way round, or are both perpetuating circles for each?

It's amazing how three of us already on here have seen the problems with Hendo and Gerrard's "partnership" and the constricting effect it has on each as individuals and each on the other, yet the manager thought it could and would work.

I totally agree that after the 3-0 at Spurs, despite the defence looking far from certain, or rather Lovren and Sakho, that keeping the same team and shape (as much as injuries permitted) was definitely the way forward, especially against a team we've struggled so much against at home during Rodgers' tenure.
Replace the injured Allen with Lallana, then decide between Coutinho (who's out of form) and Markovic, even consider Suso for the tip of the diamond.
Markovic would have the opportunity to move wide anyway. And then decide between Lambert (probably a better fit against Senderos) or Borini to replace Sturridge.
Lambert would also give us more defensive strength when defending set pieces, something Villa would look to exploit.

I can understand the urge to rest and protect Sterling, as we saw what overplaying a young player who's still physically developing, did to Owen and Fowler, and Robbie, unlike Raheem, didn't need his pace preserving.
Why not play him for an hour, get our noses in front, Villa would then have to settle for the defeat or come out allowing us more space to counter attack. Even just the first half to establish the ascendancy would have been better, then rest him ahead of Tuesday.

Again on Tuesday we could give him only an hour. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 15, 2014, 11:09:54 AM
From:

SPOTTED! Emre Can leaves Melwood on CRUTCHES... and is set for SIX weeks out of action

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/511119/SPOTTED-Emre-Can-leaves-Melwood-on-CRUTCHES-and-is-set-for-SIX-weeks-out-of-action (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/511119/SPOTTED-Emre-Can-leaves-Melwood-on-CRUTCHES-and-is-set-for-SIX-weeks-out-of-action)

" Can is believed to have rolled his ankle during Germany Under-21s 8-0 win over Romania. But he picked up an injury after the Germans had already used all of their substitutions and so he was forced to play on. "

Why did he have to stay on? They were comfortably in the lead and surely the 10 men could have seen the game out for 15 minutes, being 7-0 up. He'd provided 3 assists, he'd done his part, he deserved to have his health respected and cared for.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 15, 2014, 11:01:48 PM
Liverpool FC's Brendan Rodgers on why Henderson was 'perfect choice' for vice captain

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fcs-brendan-rodgers-henderson-7776846 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fcs-brendan-rodgers-henderson-7776846)

Congratulations Hendo, richly deserved. He's the poster boy for Rodgers' reign insofar as he wasn't one of his signings but one of the players who's improved the most under Rodgers. He's got a confidence and self belief all top players need.

If we could just have a committee that knew it's bottom from it's Aspas or a head of recruitment to bring in the players and just let Rodgers get on with coaching and improving them we'd be well set. I'm still not convinced in his ability to spot a player but definitely in his ability to improve and bring out the best in one.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 20, 2014, 06:06:47 PM
2-0 down already. First goal, basic defending of a ball into the box to the far post.

This is not a blip, or early season rust. This is endemic. Third season in and we're as frail as balsa wood still.

There is something inherently wrong and missing from the training and preparation the team is getting.

Telling the defenders they've got to be on the front foot simply isn't enough.

Do we look like we're a slick and practiced unit defensively like other teams, or is it down to just crossing fingers and hoping the defenders and others will 'just know how to defend'.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 20, 2014, 07:17:15 PM
gerrard robbed down the left side of midfield, west ham break and score a second.

our season s threatening to be over before it starts.

sure ok, we are blooding new players, but this is more of the same.

rodgers can't build balance....he can't govern gerrard.....he can't make his midfield give his defence cover.

if he does not pull things around, I can see rodgers position in trouble before Christmas.

a club does not on an all-time record buying spree, and then play like fukwits, without the boss being asked serious questions about his work.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 20, 2014, 07:25:44 PM
3 - 1

the Guardian

Mamadou Sakho, under no pressure down the Liverpool left, heads a blind header infield. Downing picks up the loose ball, advances on the area, then feeds Amalfitanio down the left. One touch, and the ball’s prodded into the bottom-right corner......Liverpool have yet again shot themselves in the foot.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 20, 2014, 07:47:56 PM
Another disapointing and discouraging performance. As was said about Tes above this isn't a blip, this goes way way deeper. I would also agree with you Dude that the team doesn't seem properly prepared. Plus it seems more and more as Rodgers been found out.

Why start Lucas?

Why refuse to play 4-4-2 when it's blatantly obvious the team's not able to play 4-3-3?

Why not allow Sterling the freedom to roam in a free role behind Balotelli? Ah, that's right, that won't be possible playing 4-3-3.

And there's the players. I never understood the hype surrounding Henderson. He offer's nothing, absolutely nothing to the team bar his work ethic. I'm good at working hard, can I also play?

Central midfield a disaster for the 3rd game running. I would say it played a big role in their 2nd and 3rd goal. Fair enough Sakho shouldn't head it blindly into the center but the space Gerrard and Henderson left was criminal.

We're gonna lose against Everton big big time and if anyone offers a point at this time I'll happily take it.

Balotelli I think had his best game but we don't seem to have the players to utilize his power and strength.

I don't know but I have the feeling we'll slip back to 7th or 8th this season. The problems we have will take the bulk of the season to fix and then it'll be all but over. Since the start of the PL no team has won it with 7 or more defeats. We have 3 already.

Taking in our extremly lucky win against the Bulgarians I think it's fair to say this is a crisis.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on September 20, 2014, 08:17:46 PM
We're just another Spurs!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 20, 2014, 08:29:51 PM
It's over it's all over.

No more CL football for another 5 years.......

We better just enjoy this CL campaign as we won't be in it for long ass time.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 20, 2014, 08:37:12 PM
Mignolet - s h i t e

Lovren  - s h i t e

Skrtel - s h i t e

Gerrard as a DM - S h i t e

Why the fcuk was our best central defender a frigging sub today!!


5th is the best we can attain this season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 20, 2014, 08:50:48 PM
Oh let us buy Lovren Brendan because apparently he is a fornicating leader!!!!! Yes let us buy him for £20m and he can LEAD OUR DEFENCE!!!!!! YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEE SHAME HE IS FUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKIIIIIINGGGG SHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEE I CAN PUT ON A LIVERPOOL JERSEY AND fornicating LEAD US INTO BATTLE - DOESN'T MEAN I AM A fornicating GOOD FOOTBALLER DOES IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pay me £20m!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 20, 2014, 09:06:13 PM

We started the summer with Gerrard having played a world cup, henderson having played a world cup. Allen, who's tiny and lucas, who's finished. Then we have babes - rossitor and lussy. We added emre can, another youngster.
We needed an experienced centre midfielder to come in and compliment Gerrard, Henderson and Allen. We didnt get one. Now we look short and are forcing a 34 year old to play games back to back.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 20, 2014, 09:49:51 PM
There was Gareth Barry on a free. Yep, I know he's not a world star, however, he brings experience, calmness and leadership. When we have so many young players, players new to the league and players with no big club experience, you need these sort of 'father figures', 'mentors' if you like, to talk on the pitch, to help and guide.

There's starting to be a pattern emerge here. Sakho and Lovren, both players who were excellent at the previous club(s) come here and look like Chaplin on acid, when trying to defend.

Listen to Rodgers' talk about the defence. It's all about transferance of responsibility from him to them. Of course, individual mistakes can be down to a lack of concentration or poor decision making, but the more practiced and drilled you are the less chance of making mistakes. You increase the chances of people automatically doing the right things and being confident in their approach.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 20, 2014, 09:52:33 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/20/1411244160445_wps_2_LONDON_ENGLAND_SEPTEMBER_.jpg)


Is that egg white on Brendan's face?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 20, 2014, 10:22:50 PM
Transfer news: Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers has a strategy in transfer market

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/30778/9399930/premier-league-we-have-a-transfer-strategy-here-at-liverpool-says-brendan-rodgers (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/30778/9399930/premier-league-we-have-a-transfer-strategy-here-at-liverpool-says-brendan-rodgers)

This was from earlier in the Summer. Here's the relevant quote from it:

Rodgers told Sky Sports News: "It's a different club and different vision we have here. At Liverpool there's a strategy behind what we are doing.

"We talked a lot with our recruitment team last season, knowing that through the summer we needed to improve the depth of our squad.

"Clearly we were not strong enough last season in terms of numbers and quality.

"We always planned to bring in a number of players, hoping we were going to be in the Champions League, so it would give us the opportunity to challenge on all fronts.


One thing that struck me when I read it was that if the signings of Lallana, Markovic, Lambert, Lovren, Moreno (it was obvious he was our no 1 target at left back by this stage), Can etc had been planned since before the end of last season, or before the "Suarez bite", then where was the money to fund them coming from, or alternatively, where has the Suarez money and the plan to replace him gone?

Can we definitely say we had a plan in place to replace Suarez since he signed his new contract last December, should that need arise? It didn't and doesn't look like it.

Was the plan to use the Suarez money to fund squad expansion, but at the risk of not getting anywhere near replacing his goals and work rate, should he actually leave?

I decided not to highlight the article at the time and see how the window went and how everything started to pan out this season, and then judge what was what and the overall effects and effectiveness after the closure of the window and the first games, as doing it any time sooner would have been premature.

If this was all planned with the expectation of Suarez staying, was there no Plan B, if he didn't, or was the plan to push on regardless either way, and hope a strengthened squad automatically equaled a strengthened and better first eleven? 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 20, 2014, 11:23:31 PM
There's an increasing acceptance it seems amongst our fanbase that time has caught up with Gerrard, and more and more fans would be accepting, even positively in favour of seeing less of him.

In keeping him in the team every game, I think Rodgers, in trying to keep the fans on side by not jettisoning Gerrard, will actually do the opposite. There will be a few mongs who take to the likes of twitter and vent their spleen, but I think most would at least understand and have grudging respect that Rodgers has had the balls and the ruthlessness required to do what is best for the team.

I'd actually prefer to see him given a role off Balotelli. He simply doesn't have and never had the tactical discipline to play that holding role. If you're going to play as the deepest midfielder then defensive accumen is more important than being the deep lying conductor. If that's the case then we need a Masch type player in there also. It's why the Masch and Alonso partnership worked. It would have been a similar disaster if it had only been one or the other in there.

Play him off Balotelli. Don't ask him to track back, just put any opposition deep lying midfielder under pressure and save his legs and energy for when we have the ball.

Has Rodgers' ego been at the heart of a few things? Firstly, did he believe he could talk Suarez into staying again this season, hence an obvious plan for the eventuality of his departure was never drawn up?
Has he taken on Balotelli to try and prove he can do what other managers have apparently failed to do? I ask that because personality issues apart, I wasn't and am getting even less convinced that Balotelli is really suited to a team that wishes to play like we did last season, and I guess this season.
It seems like we cast about and finally landed a striker to replace a striker, but the similarities and suitability starts and finishes there.

Last season, one of our weak areas was the fact we only had two strikers worth the name. Now, four is looking even less than two. How have we ended up at this point?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 20, 2014, 11:45:14 PM
Suarez's world class powers papered over, to a massive extent, the major issues related to the defensive and balance aspects of the team.

without Suarez, we have the worst of all worlds - shipping charlie chaplin type goals at one end.....and unable to score at the other end.

if Brendan doesn't get himself on an FA approved training course or two - Defence 101.....and Balance 101....then he will be gone before Christmas.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 21, 2014, 12:39:41 AM
This is from someone else and it is hard to disagree with imo - now that I've calmed down a little  ;D



"People's expectations were way too high going into the season. We lose to Everton next week and there will be carnage. I did my best.

You do not go through what we did last season and shrug it off and just bounce back. You do not lose a once in a lifetime player like Luis Suarez, shrug it off and just bounce back. There are psychological scars from last term that will take time to go away. There is a hangover that needs to be shrugged off, and that takes time.

You do not try to integrate 7 players into a team and not suffer any effects. Nor is the switch from a fast striker full movement to a static forward with physicality a simple process. Nor are the extra games from Europe going to go by un noticed.

The only thing I care about, as I've said all along, is that Brendan Rodgers be given a "free year", whatever happens. I hope to Christ the people that gave me abuse in the Summer for saying how hard this season was going to be will stand by Rodgers, despite their unrealistic expectations not being fulfilled

It's going to be a long hard season.  The sooner all you lot accept that, the better."
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 21, 2014, 10:33:26 AM
He's saying pretty much what Tes' been saying. And as you say, bits of it are easy to relate to. But there are a distinct difference between the problems we face due to historical events, i.e. losing out on the title and Suarez, and problems stemming from the manager's inability to handle things correctly. Pastures like preparing the team for games, finding a tactical set-up that helps the team and playing a line-up that actually have a chance to get something from games are solely the manager's responsibility. This is where Rodgers failed massively for the 2nd PL-game running. I said on here an hour Before last nite's KO we're shipping out points with that line-up. If a moaning Swede who only been to Anfield a handful of times can tell, it speaks volumes what problems we face when our manager can't.

I'm more than willing to give Rodgers this season. But not on a "free" in the sense no matter what mistakes or decisions he make I won't hold it against him. Why break up Lovren and Sakho? Sakho's not getting even half the praise he deserve while Henderson, no fornicating matter how poor or non-contributing, recieve praise for his extraordinary development. Was the same with Lucas, ppl, for no good reason I saw it, praised and praised him despite never being able to step up.

I do not agree with you Tes, Gerrard should be tested in a more forward positioned role. I don't think he should be played at all. Seeing as this season is already over and it looks most likely we'll lose out on European football all together this is the perfect time to start the process of phasing Gerrard out. I also think Rodgers need to restart the tactial rebuilding of the team. First and foremost he must get the players to gel, and that won't happen from this confusing and difficult 4-3-3 but more likely so from a familiar 4-4-2 or possibly 4-4-1-1.

This is a crisis and the pain caused from watching us play can't be described in Words. For the first time in my life I'll activily act so as to miss out on watching the derby albeit it's only on telly.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2014, 12:16:53 PM
"People's expectations were way too high going into the season.

I'm sick of hearing that line trotted out. Firstly, sweeping, coverall generalisations are the product of an equally shallow mind as that of which the accuser accuses others of having. Secondly, anyone who comes out with that BS doesn't have a clue what any of us are actually thinking, but nevermind that, they can see things the rest of us mere mortals serially miss.

Maybe some fans thought we would challenge again and take the final step. Maybe some hoped we could challenge again.

The problem is people like the authors of these comments tend to take the sample of 'social mediarites' as somehow being representative of the entire fan base or at least a large majority.

Most fans understand we 'overachieved' massively last season and that was not our 'true' level, and of course, Suarez played a big part in that, and yes, us mere mental pygmies realise we have a Suarez sized hole to fill, and that he was the best player in the world last season (above Messi and CR[ass]7 because of his workrate and sheer effort for the 'team') and that he is probably the only striker of his exact kind in the world.

What we should be able to expect is that a glaring hole, like our defence, would be addressed and that a PL manager should be able to understand the increased necessity losing a huge supply of goals would bring to that issue. When compared like to like, conceding fewer goals becomes even more important this season if we are likely to score fewer. Scoring fewer was always very likely, even with Suarez, as we are keeping firmly in mind the word 'overachievement' in all our considerations, thoughts and expectations. 

Also, aren't we entitled to a bit of forward planning, especially when we basically kept hold of Suarez last Summer due to a 'less than clear' buyout clause working in our favour. That advantage was removed when he signed a new contract in December, therefore increasing the likelihood of him leaving this Summer.

Additionally, taking into consideration over 'overachievement' + the loss of Suarez + the woeful defending that was brilliantly offset by our ability to outscore ourselves, surely we have a right to 'expect' that that would equal a refining of our playing methods to address the huge issue(s).
Conceding fewer goals will always increase your chances of turning a narrow defeat into a point, and a score draw (2-2 or above) into 3 points, with or without Luis.

I'm not expecting a glut of clean sheets. That is likely to require a 'huge' shift in playing methods and I'm not for a second advocating that. All we want, is as Dude always sums it up perfectly - balance

The two most recent examples in terms of goals scored and conceded and points gained from that way of playing is the season we came second when once the Mancs overtook us and went top Benitez appeared to take the shackles off, and then the half season of Dalglish's caretaker stint.

Both those examples has us scoring goals, winning games, accumulating points, all built on a sound defence. Maybe the football wasn't as orgasmic as some of what we saw last season, and that was 'super thrilling', even the games where we conceded more than enough for the opposition to have won the game, yet still trounced them. 

Taking everything into consideration, I think most of us have the target of a top four finish as the theme of our hopes and expectations. I think that would have still been the same even if Suarez was still here. Common sense tends to indicate that Man City and Chelsea would still have stronger squads than ours, Arsenal always finish in the top four (and I've given up writing off their chances), the Mancs can't be as bad again, ditto Spurs with a new manager who seems to have the PL sussed. So including us that's 6 into 4. As as minimum requirement we have to finish ahead of two of those teams just to earn a CL qualifier, so to ensure CL football we have to finish ahead of three teams, or put another way, we can only afford to finish behind two teams.

8 goals conceded in 4 games. Do we not have a right to expect better? The first three games' results I have no problems with, though the ease with which City scored their goals is the issue, not the number they did. Conceding 4 goals in total against Villa and West Ham with only a single goal in reply is the real problem.
Granted injuries haven't helped at all and have disrupted stability of selection, but keeping changing formations etc when we're still at the early stages of players bedding in was maybe an avoidable disruption.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 21, 2014, 03:22:18 PM
great post, Tes.  I agree with all of it.

By the way, currently at Filbert Street (or the Coca Cola Centre, or the Kentucky Fried Bunker, or whatever all these old grounds are called these days), Leicester were down 1-3 to Man Utd after an hour......but now lead 5-3   !!!!!!!!!

yehaaaaa.

yehaaaaa.

De Maria and his mates are being given the runaround.  And United's two wingbacks have been caught forward way too often.

Sounds like trouble at Old Trafford AND Anfield.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 21, 2014, 03:49:28 PM
from Mail

Manchester United surrendered a two-goal lead for the first time in Premier League history to lose 5-3 in a dramatic turnaround at the King Power Stadium.

Louis van Gaal opted to field three strikers, and although his side were rewarded with three goals, they were severely punished at the back.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2014, 03:54:18 PM
great post, Tes.  I agree with all of it.

By the way, currently at Filbert Street (or the Coca Cola Centre, or the Kentucky Fried Bunker, or whatever all these old grounds are called these days), Leicester were down 1-3 to Man Utd after an hour......but now lead 5-3   !!!!!!!!!

yehaaaaa.

yehaaaaa.

De Maria and his mates are being given the runaround.  And United's two wingbacks have been caught forward way too often.

Sounds like trouble at Old Trafford AND Anfield.

Making our situation all the more frustrating.

What some managers seem to fail to grasp is that whilst the PL may be the most exciting, it's part down to the lack of tactical acumen and complexity on display. Get the basics of football right, do them well and you'll be a success in the PL.
Defend set pieces, win the battle of the Protestant work ethic in midfield and place your shots inside the post and three points shall be your more oft than not.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2014, 03:59:54 PM
from Mail

Manchester United surrendered a two-goal lead for the first time in Premier League history to lose 5-3 in a dramatic turnaround at the King Power Stadium.

Louis van Gaal opted to field three strikers, and although his side were rewarded with three goals, they were severely punished at the back.

Which country is King Power monarch of? 

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ld9v-RL2Cfc/Tf41Jz4676I/AAAAAAAAQ4o/eeYUQNCzRzE/s400/Paul+POWER+Panini+Manchester+City+1979.png)


He's even got his Royal Yacht on the City badge.


Showing my age again.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2014, 04:15:29 PM
The Mancs came back from 3-1 up to lose 5-3.

Spurs lost home to WBA. Hat trick from Wisdom (only kidding about that bit).
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2014, 04:29:34 PM
I do not agree with you Tes, Gerrard should be tested in a more forward positioned role. I don't think he should be played at all.

I'd rather that was the case and he'd made the decision himself to end his top class career, us and the nationals, with his head held high, and joined Lampard in playing out the last couple of years in the MLS.

My only point about having him in the starting 11 sometimes is that having lost Suarez, are all our players strong enough to mentally cope without taking both away in one go. Give him some Anfield games, the cups and the dead rubber(s) either way in the CL, and have him on the bench to occasionally throw on in his 'Torres partnership postion' if we're struggling against 'the bus'. Give him the Derbies also as he seems to have a galvinising effect in them more times than not.

This has to be his last season and instead of the £20M on Markovic, we'd have been better served by that money going towards his successor, or some proper defensive strength in midfield.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2014, 04:39:01 PM
Coutinho needs some time out and we play Lallana on the left of the diamond, with Sterling at the forward tip.

I'd play Lambert up with Balotelli simply to bully the centre halves a bit more and try and allow Balotelli to find himself more space.

As for the centre of defence, I think Brendan needs to get out the three envelopes, put "pitch" in two and "bench" in the other and let Skrtel, Lovren and Sakho pick an envelope each and decide their own fate in a non-scientific, non-footballing manner at the end of the last training session before the next league game.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 21, 2014, 04:58:01 PM
I am with Martin.  I'd sooner we called a stop to Captain Marvel's career right now.  Ideally, done pleasantly, with Lord Gerrard playing out a season or two in North America, where he can receive accolades and hold tv interviews, mid-game.

Sakho is not my cup of tea.  He comes from the Titus Bramble school of central defending. 

You know, Wenger had a superb defence when he took over in the mid 90s, at Arsenal.   They served him well, and his team competed well with United.  But the further Wenger moved away from the defence that he inherited, the worse his team got. 

I have a similar worry with Rodgers.  Rodgers inherited a very good defensive unit.   Is he building a worse unit.  Is he capable of building a decent defensive unit, with good coverage in front of it.  Is he able to rebalance the side?

All these questions and more, will be answered in this season's edition of SOAP ANFIELD.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2014, 07:37:49 PM
I am with Martin.  I'd sooner we called a stop to Captain Marvel's career right now.  Ideally, done pleasantly, with Lord Gerrard playing out a season or two in North America, where he can receive accolades and hold tv interviews, mid-game.

This is the reason I'm even trying to find an occasional slot, seeing as neither our captain or manager have seen fit to face the obvious.

He's concentrated a lot of funds on attacking players when it was the defensive side that needed major surgery, with or without Suarez. We needed to make sure that losing just one of Allen or Hendo didn't leave us exposed and that the player sitting in front of the defence (rather than keep dropping into it) is capable of reading the game and have the energy to get about the pitch in our defensive third providing the cover in front of the defence.

To play a midfield four without a defensive expert as any of the four, and even worse when we only play with three in midfield, whilst at the same time having two of your four defenders as much a part of the attacking aspect as the defensive one, is leaving us massively short of players involved in the whole defensive aspect of our play. You can't defend by simply keeping possession or just pressing. There also has to work done on cutting out supply, but when that doesn't work, then dealing with the through balls and balls played into the area, or into those on the edge of the area who will feed runners.

Again it was Gerrard's attempted long, high, hanging cross field ball that was easily defended against, which result in the headed clearance fall to Sakho to make a complete mess of with his header. That header went into an acre of space, centrally, deep in our own half. The fact that was the problem encapsulates our defensive deficiencies perfectly.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on September 21, 2014, 07:55:21 PM
There are psychological scars from last term that will take time to go away.

You do not try to integrate 7 players into a team and not suffer any effects.

The only thing I care about, as I've said all along, is that Brendan Rodgers be given a "free year"
Jesus wept. This kind of sh*t is the reason we no longer win league titles.

As for Rodgers, the man who let Jose Mourinho do this at Anfield?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uC8w6X8oSo

Wake the f**k up, SAF (someone, who by reputation had earned
the right to be given time) came down from Scotland hellbent on
establishing a dynasty and winning silverware. The muppet in
charge at the moment is just using the club as a stepping stone
to audition for the England job. As the clip above shows, he could
care less about fortress Anfield.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 21, 2014, 10:13:26 PM
He's concentrated a lot of funds on attacking players when it was the defensive side that needed major surgery, with or without Suarez. We needed to make sure that losing just one of Allen or Hendo didn't leave us exposed and that the player sitting in front of the defence (rather than keep dropping into it) is capable of reading the game and have the energy to get about the pitch in our defensive third providing the cover in front of the defence.

To play a midfield four without a defensive expert as any of the four, and even worse when we only play with three in midfield, whilst at the same time having two of your four defenders as much a part of the attacking aspect as the defensive one, is leaving us massively short of players involved in the whole defensive aspect of our play. You can't defend by simply keeping possession or just pressing. There also has to work done on cutting out supply, but when that doesn't work, then dealing with the through balls and balls played into the area, or into those on the edge of the area who will feed runners.

Again it was Gerrard's attempted long, high, hanging cross field ball that was easily defended against, which result in the headed clearance fall to Sakho to make a complete mess of with his header. That header went into an acre of space, centrally, deep in our own half. The fact that was the problem encapsulates our defensive deficiencies perfectly.

yes, the whole balance of the side is entirely wrong.

It is front heavy.

And when you have someone like Gerrard in the engine room - who has zero tactical discipline, you are only exacerbating the problems.

OK, I know a great lad like Mascherano, or Didi Hamann, is probably too defensive for our boss.  But you do need someone to protect the defence, and who can wisely dictate the pace of a game.

Suarez hid a lot of our issues these past couple of years.

Gerrard for me, has to be moved on.  And Sakho is like a donkey dancing on grease.  An accident waiting to happen (like Gerrard).

And our keeper now is having a case of the willies every game.

Bottom line, we are not scoring the goals, that would mask our issues at the back end of the team.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 21, 2014, 10:14:45 PM
Jesus wept. This kind of sh*t is the reason we no longer win league titles.


Ed's heart is as cold as his avatar.  :D  :D


Paisley had a saying about last season always counting for absolutely nothing, even after league and European Cup wins. In other words it's only the here and now that counts and your last few results are what gives you the opportunity to gain your next few.

Rodgers now has the squad made up of the vast majority of his players, but he needs to be given time and opportunity to make it work. Game 19, half way through the season is at home to Swansea (ironically). Now, obviously if we've lost more than we've won, and/or we're still shipping goals in bunches, then the alarm bells need to be dusted down pronto, and if after the Manc game at home on March 21st, game 30, we're not within 6 points of 4th (6 or more points to make up in 8 games would be a big ask), then the owners have every right to start thinking about looking around and getting themselves clued up on managerial situations etc.

The thing that shows through more than anything as a way to build success in the PL is stability. Unless we turn into Newcastle, then I'd hate to see a mid season change, with the new manager stuck with all the cards Rodgers would have failed to make a good hand out of, and who would have expect us to be where we were at the start of May, this time last season.

This season: P5 W2 D0 L3 F7 A8 GD-1 P6 - 11th place

Last season: P5 W3 D1 L1 F5 A3 GD2 P10 - 5th place

At this stage last season the goalscoring would have appeared to be a bigger worry than the defence, who'd have thought that as the season drew to a climax. We're actually two goals scored to the good this season over last season.
At the moment the defensive side is far more of a worry than the perceived lack of goals. Our defending has been horrendous, but we've scored one less than we've conceded and whilst not great, we're unlikely to be as free scoring as last season and I think that's universally acknowledged, so we need to get something sorted.

I think it's starting to be too obvious, even for the most optimistic optimist, that Rodgers' strengths are not in the defensive side of the game. This is not new, or down to three new defenders, injury disruption, back luck, just individual errors etc. This is a pattern that was there with Swansea and has been omnipresent during his entire tenure at Anfield. I can't believe that his defensive methods are so intricate that it takes three seasons to even begin to approach mastery of them.

You'd like to think that people who make their living as professional footballers, paid tens of thousands of pounds a week, could at least be able to gaffer the basics of their chosen position, but it's the wider, collective failings that are increasing the chances of further individual mistakes being made.

Sakho is not the same player I've seen for PSG or France. Ditto Lovren at Southampton and Lyon (I've seen too little of him for Croatia to judge). Again with Skrtel, whilst I've never been his biggest fan, he's better than what he's shown himself to be overall under Rodgers. We lack cohesion of any sort. Our defending was as woeful in the second half of last season and so far this season as our attacking play was breathtaking (last season, of course, apart from Spurs).   

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 21, 2014, 10:28:07 PM
It's early doors, but going forward, may I be the first to suggest the Return of the Rafa.  The king of balance.

 8)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on September 22, 2014, 12:33:13 AM
Ed's heart is as cold as his avatar.  :D  :D
I particularly like Lucinda Williams take on that old number

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q55wGgV73sg

 :D

The thing that shows through more than anything as a way to build success in the PL is stability.
I disagree with where you're going with that argument Tes
on three counts. Firstly, why sell Suarez if it's stability (proven goals)
you're after. Secondly, playing Gerrard is stability. & thirdly things
can be as stable as you like, but if the manager's a muppet he's a
muppet.

Ruthlessness, in all areas, is the characteristic needed to win the PL.

It's early doors, but going forward, may I be the first to suggest the Return of the Rafa.
You look at the players he signed playing in World Cup finals & Semi-finals years
after he signed them and realise the depth of his analysis.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on September 22, 2014, 01:06:14 PM
Watched the match and wasn't even slightly surprised. How things change in a few months. The genius that was Suarez hid a lot of cracks. Lucas is a pale shadow of what he used to be and Borini was like...meh!
The reason we're leaking so many goals is 2 main glaring problems. 1. Gerrard shouldn't even be in the def mid position in the first place, let alone play 3 times a week! He hasn't got the legs anymore and should now be used sparingly.
2. Mignolet is also undermining the defense with his ineptitide. Play Jones in the league cup and if he has a good showing let him play in the Derby. One can only hope that the Valdes rumours are true.
I'm not sure if we have a Def mid in the youth ranks who can play on tuesday night but if we do he surely has to play. Sterling needs a rest too.
If Rodgers doesn't have the strength to drop the legend then he will fall by the sword this season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 22, 2014, 01:12:49 PM
I disagree with where you're going with that argument Tes
on three counts. Firstly, why sell Suarez if it's stability (proven goals)
you're after. Secondly, playing Gerrard is stability. & thirdly things
can be as stable as you like, but if the manager's a muppet he's a
muppet.

Ruthlessness, in all areas, is the characteristic needed to win the PL.
You look at the players he signed playing in World Cup finals & Semi-finals years
after he signed them and realise the depth of his analysis.

I think where Suarez was concerned, and the definitive buyout clause for me is the biggest clue, he had his eyes firmly on the exit door. He wanted to go and play in Spain this Summer. He was probably playing to a Spanish audience last season and if he'd been forced to stay again I doubt we'd have seen the same player. What would be his point in auditioning if we're going to stop him getting the part anyway?
There's also the aspect of keeping sponsors on side and not putting off future sponsors and partners. Whether we like it or not, developing increased revenue streams is as much part of modern football as the eleven on the pitch.

Gerrard = stability - that's taking that argument to the nth degree.

The aspect of stability I'm talking about is two fold. Firstly, if we look at the players who achieved that second place last season, with the exception of Mignolet, the vast majority were already at the club at the end of the previous season. Buying so many players and needing to try to integrate them has caused it's own instability.
It's where Wenger has played it so well over the years of constant CL qualification, in that he's kept changes down to a minimum, where he had control. They've had changes where players have opted to leave, so he's always brought in just two or three, at most, and kept integration of new players down to the bare minimum.
We've created our own turbulence this Summer. Whether additions are required or not, and the numbers are only relative to the size of the potential problems caused, bringing in more than 3 new starters to the first 11, or having more than 3 new players (whether first 11 or squad sentries) on the pitch at any one time will create it's own problems. The level of necessity doesn't alter the bottom line.

Secondly, in terms of money spent and who spent it, we need to give more time both to players and the buying manager, as we simply don't have the levels of budget to allow us to make regular managerial/coaching changes and then wholesale changes to the squad and team that a new manager sees as necessary.

Look how hard it's been for the club to get rid of Lucas, Borini, Assaidi, Aspas and the pathetic fees gained for Reina and Agger. We can't keep paying the deadwood and adding further to the wage bill for their 'replacements'.

I totally agree that you have to be clinical and ruthless. Gerrard should have been replaced already. Have either of the last three managers even considered this, nevermind sorted his replacement(s) or planned for life post Gerrard? This is the sort of stability we need. We've now created instability where Gerrard is concerned, as it's clear he can no longer play the role he's being asked to (if he ever really could), and there is no replacement(s) for a seamless transition.

We can only be as ruthless as funds allow, and as suitable and available replacements allow.

There's being ruthless and then there's being reckless and reactionary.

The apparent lack of improvement on the defensive side is a huge concern and the season's start has been disappointing. Something definitive and different to what has gone before definitely needs to be done, though initially this should come from Rodgers. A change in training methods, additional coaching staff with strengths the current setup most definitely appear to lack, a revision in the way we play, or something else.  Whether the signings are the right ones, who knows. I wouldn't want to regard any as an unqualified success after only 6 games, and the opposite therefore applies equally.   

Ed, who is the 'he' you're referring to in your last paragraph?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 22, 2014, 01:17:17 PM
I particularly like Lucinda Williams take on that old number

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q55wGgV73sg

Ed's anti-serenade to the manager, joined in a duet by the discarded Mrs R.   ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 22, 2014, 02:49:36 PM
Fifa ExCo member: 2022 World Cup will not be held in Qatar

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/22/fifa-qatar-2022-world-cup-theo-zwanziger (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/22/fifa-qatar-2022-world-cup-theo-zwanziger)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 22, 2014, 02:58:15 PM
Watched the match and wasn't even slightly surprised.

The genius that was Suarez hid a lot of cracks.

The reason we're leaking so many goals is 2 main glaring problems.
1. Gerrard shouldn't even be in the def mid position in the first place
2. Mignolet is also undermining the defense with his ineptitide.

If Rodgers doesn't have the strength to drop the legend then he will fall by the sword this season.

The King is left naked, with having no Suarez to hide the cracks.

Our defence is now actually weaker than it was last season.  And with no Suarez, it looks even worse.

It will take time to blood the new lads into the team.  But Rodgers has no history of ever building balanced sides.  Indeed, he has no history of ever using the word BALANCE in interviews or analysis.  Instead, he is all about going forward and putting the other side on the back foot - and basically outscoring them.

Without balance, or any ability to fix the issue, we could go on a long run of poor form.  A run that could cost the boss his job.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 22, 2014, 03:01:42 PM
a
You look at the players King Rafa signed playing in World Cup finals & Semi-finals years
after he signed them and realise the depth of his analysis.

yes, Rafa was always able to spot a top player, and at the right money (often before others had seen the potential). 

Though I think Rafa is only half the man he was, without his sidekick, Paka. 

Though physically, he is twice the man. 

Rafa needs to lose weight.  He is looking very unhealthy.....a heart attack waiting to happen.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on September 22, 2014, 04:01:21 PM
Daniel Agger has revealed how disagreements with Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers last season paved the way for his Anfield exit.

The Danish defender has said he was “not on the same page” as the Reds manager for much of the campaign.

Agger was in and out of Liverpool’s first team last season and was sold at the end of August to Brondby for £3m.

The 29-year-old shed light on the reasons for his exit in an interview with Danish reporters at the TV3+ channel.

“Let me put it this way, the manager and me were perhaps not on the same page in all of last season. For most of last season at least,” said Agger.

“There was much between us, and for me it was just enough. I felt that he didn’t appreciate the things I could contribute. When I feel that, then it’s time to move on.

Where me and him maybe went wrong from each other, was that I’m very direct. I say things as they are, and so I also expect that people are the same to me. Maybe it’s wrong to expect it sometimes.”

Agger made more than 150 appearances for the Reds in his eight-year Anfield career.

Agger in defensive midfield perhaps and Reina to bring competition...could have steadied this ship if we had had them.



http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/daniel-agger--not-appreciated-7810505
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 22, 2014, 05:20:57 PM
It's early doors, but going forward, may I be the first to suggest the Return of the Rafa.  The king of balance.

 8)


Can o' worms opened.

You look at the players he signed playing in World Cup finals & Semi-finals years
after he signed them and realise the depth of his analysis.

"Dem der woyms is leavin dat der can quicky dana ferret on dat der acid stuffymago dat Mama likeys droppin wid der moonshine"  Pulls hat down, chews furiously on half a corn field and awaits the inevitable..................   ;D


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 22, 2014, 05:43:34 PM
Fifa ExCo member: 2022 World Cup will not be held in Qatar

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/22/fifa-qatar-2022-world-cup-theo-zwanziger (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/22/fifa-qatar-2022-world-cup-theo-zwanziger)

I hate the jingoist shortening of executive committee to "exco". What next, SepBla, MicPla?

There'll be more than £16K watches being handed back if Qatar get stripped of the finals. I understand the need to spread the FIFA football 'message' but even the buttheads, or should that be buhes, on the 'exco' need to admit there's just some places on planet Earth that aren't suitable to hold a sporting event like a football tournament in the middle of 'Summer'. And whilst they're at it, strip the Russians of their tournament. I can't bear the idea of a bare chested Putin parachuting in as part of the opening ceremony.
If they want to 'push football' give it to the Americans again as football is nearly at breakthrough point over there and a World Cup would be a huge difference maker. There's enough stadia in the northern states without having to go near Texas, Southern California and the cleared cattle fields of Alabama in the Summer.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 22, 2014, 06:12:37 PM
in my opinion, USA and Germany, Spain, Brazil, etc have all had more than their fair share of World Cups.

The World Cup should come home, and be shared among these islands of ours.

Groups/games in Dublin, Cardiff, Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester and London.

And obviously the final being in London. 

PS - I wish we had the old Wembley.  It had atmosphere and was special.  That new Wembley looks like a metal UFO from Mars has landed.

OR, hold the final in that superb stadium in Cardiff.

but no more America for me.  It has got way too many world cups and olympics these past 25 years.




Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 22, 2014, 06:50:34 PM
in my opinion, USA and Germany, Spain, Brazil, etc have all had more than their fair share of World Cups.

The World Cup should come home, and be shared among these islands of ours.

Groups/games in Dublin, Cardiff, Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester and London.

And obviously the final being in London. 

PS - I wish we had the old Wembley.  It had atmosphere and was special.  That new Wembley looks like a metal UFO from Mars has landed.

OR, hold the final in that superb stadium in Cardiff.

but no more America for me.  It has got way too many world cups and olympics these past 25 years.

Dude, I couldn't stand the repeat media organisms if England got the World Cup. They'd have a problem awarding it to the UK and Ireland because that's splitting it between 5 associations. I'd rather there be a final at Hampden, the Millenium or Croke Park. London gets everything. The new 'Wembley' is a perfect excuse not to give the cockneys anything else.
Meanwhile, I can just hear Hodgson taking all the credit for earning a World Cup Final for England.

Or how about giving to Australia? They're a proper sporting, if rather 'unsporting' nation. I guess the lack of stadia and the sheer size of the place would cause logistical nightmares. England, or rather London, has been awarded the 2020 Euros final and Semis. It's a travesty that the Millenium Stadium has been overlooked. That's a proper stadium, with a proper atmosphere.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/19/wembley-euro-2020-host-finals-semi-finals-fa-uefa (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/19/wembley-euro-2020-host-finals-semi-finals-fa-uefa)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 22, 2014, 06:54:59 PM
I could give an extremely anti rafa view to the last few posts, but I won't.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 22, 2014, 06:59:27 PM
a
yes, Rafa was always able to spot a top player, and at the right money

In Bold - LOL

£12m for Babel, Dossena £7m, Riera £8m, Keane £19m, Aquiliani £18m.

But really it was the crap he bought for the range of £4m to £10m prices that had the cumulative affect of a bigger waste.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 22, 2014, 07:11:12 PM
Oh players playing in euros and world cup semis and finals.

Alonso - yeah a man that was the main reason Real Sociedad finished 2nd in 02/03. Oh yes Ed he was unknown wasn't he!!!! Only a blind man could not have seen Alonso's potential brilliance at that time.

Arbeloa - Agreed. Genius move from Rafa.

Reina - Played for Barcelona on a regular basis before joining us and was only a No.2 or No.3 for Spain so really he doesn't count.

Kuyt - A regular dutch international before we ever signed him.

Mascherano - A regular Argentine international before we ever signed him.

Torres - A regular for Spain before we ever signed him.

Oh yes Ed Rafa signed those "unknowns" who went on to win international titles or be in semis and finals.

Please the rewriting of history is B.S.

Oh and yes oh many times oh Rafa lovers did we challenge for the league during his time here?! OH YES ONCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.s These past few posts weren't my definition of Anti-Rafa because you wouldn't want to read that.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on September 22, 2014, 08:24:00 PM
bringing in more than 3 new starters to the first 11

Look how hard it's been for the club to get rid of Lucas

I totally agree that you have to be clinical and ruthless. Gerrard should have been replaced already. Have either of the last three managers even considered this, n
Yeah, didn't the F**kwit crow for ages when he arrived
about his faith in youth?? In hindsight 'twas utter BS on his part

Lucas had the makings of a great player for us before the injury. I'll
be honest I haven't seen much of him recently (haven't seen a game for
over a year).

It requires balls to make tough decisions like that



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on September 22, 2014, 08:26:58 PM
Oh players playing in euros and world cup semis and finals.
Who has your man signed... and what is the likelihood of
them ever gracing the upper echelons of World Football?

Give him the England job.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on September 22, 2014, 08:35:31 PM

Can o' worms opened.

"Dem der woyms is leavin dat der can quicky dana ferret on dat der acid stuffymago dat Mama likeys droppin wid der moonshine"  Pulls hat down, chews furiously on half a corn field and awaits the inevitable..................   ;D
You put them pins up and I'll knock 'em down. I recall
Dude liking a spot of bowling before his shameless defection  :D

I love that celebration by Jose at Anfield last year, perfectly
captures the weakness inherent in the current regime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uC8w6X8oSo

They should play it on rotation in the reception area at Anfield
and then ask people to listen to the immortal words of the great
Bill Shankly - Spot the difference!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on September 22, 2014, 08:42:19 PM
Rafa was always able to spot a top player.
Had us number 1 team in Europe for a while.

Anyway, I'm not calling for his return, just highlighting
a different, more successful approach.

The next manager needs to be Rafa-like in certain areas.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on September 22, 2014, 08:44:45 PM
Daniel Agger has revealed how disagreements with Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers last season paved the way for his Anfield exit.
I'm sure there are others.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 22, 2014, 10:56:48 PM
Yeah, didn't the F**kwit crow for ages when he arrived
about his faith in youth?? In hindsight 'twas utter BS on his part

Lucas had the makings of a great player for us before the injury. I'll
be honest I haven't seen much of him recently (haven't seen a game for
over a year).

It requires balls to make tough decisions like that

Whilst he's not brought through too many, one of the things he seems to have focused almost solely on is buying players of below a certain age, whilst we've systematically rid ourselves of experience (with the exception of Gerrard).

Lucas has been tragically unlucky with suffering two major injuries in very quick succession. Without those injuries we'd have the base of the diamond well and truly sorted. I know a lot of people decry Lucas, but let's see how effective a defensive midfielder is when expected to play as an attacking midfielder, and how many attacking midfielders would succeed at being moulded into a defensive. Lucas was an attacking midfielder at Gremio, pulling the strings from just outside the area and making well timed runs to get on the end of things. He didn't have a defensive string to his bow at Gremio, but that seems to be conveniently overlooked when appraising Lucas' Liverpool career.

Balls, or a thick skin, thick enough to ignore the misplaced outcry from a few, and to understand it's not about being popular (or at least it shouldn't be), it's about being successful. He only needs to look at how Taggart dispensed with 'Utd legends and fans' heroes', or if he can't bear gazing into that cesspit, then how Bob Paisley handled Hughes, Thompson and Smith.

He's got 'his' squad give or take one or two, and unless we hit freefall, or are in the bottom three at Christmas, then I think last season's over achievement buys him this season to make it work overall.
I state overall, because I've got little patience left where our defending is concerned. This is his third season and the defending has never been great, but since the start of the year it's descended from 'not great' into farcical. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 22, 2014, 10:59:40 PM
Edward doing an admiral 'Kuyt like' effort to get the worms back in the can.  ;D

Fowler loves a tryer.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 22, 2014, 11:05:37 PM
Who has your man signed... and what is the likelihood of
them ever gracing the upper echelons of World Football?

Give him the England job.

Sturridge, Coutinho, Sakho, Moreno all strong possibilities.

Not to mention the development of Sterling under Rodgers as well.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 22, 2014, 11:07:12 PM
Had us number 1 team in Europe for a while.

Anyway, I'm not calling for his return, just highlighting
a different, more successful approach.

The next manager needs to be Rafa-like in certain areas.

Certainly was not successful in the league though eh.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on September 23, 2014, 12:41:19 AM
Whilst he's not brought through too many, one of the things he seems to have focused almost solely on is buying players of below a certain age, whilst we've systematically rid ourselves of experience (with the exception of Gerrard).
Yeah, but he did seem to spend an inordinate amount of time when he
first arrived going on and on and on about youth, youth, youth.

Then he goes out and spends an inordinate amount of money over the
Summer on all these new faces i.e. no faith in our youth.

Then I think last season's over achievement buys him this season to make it work overall.
God bless your patience Tes  :D

Sturridge, Coutinho, Sakho, Moreno all strong possibilities.

Not to mention the development of Sterling under Rodgers as well.
It's all just an audition for the England job. At which point he'll most likely remember
his passion for youth.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 23, 2014, 12:46:17 AM
God bless your patience Tes  :D

 :D   :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on September 23, 2014, 02:14:58 AM
:D   :D
Good One Tes, if you can't laugh about it all, forget it!  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 23, 2014, 05:54:27 AM
Certainly was not successful in the league though eh.

but to be fair, edward, both Rafa and Brendan finished second in the premiership with Liverpool.

and Brendan has had a lot more money to spend.   So if we say second is not successful, then Brendan's efforts are similarly tainted.

With Rafa we repeatedly qualified for the CL.....and got to two CL finals....and he had us as the number one ranked club in Europe.   And all at the same time as having two yankee barstewards continually stealing the family silver.  And he won trophies - i.e. success.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on September 23, 2014, 11:56:11 AM
The Reds have lost three of their opening five Premier League games this season with many questioning the performances of their 34-year-old talisman.

Gerrard, who retired from international duty with England following the World Cup in Brazil, struggled to make an impact during their 3-1 defeat at West Ham on Saturday.

But Rodgers insists he is not worried by his captain’s form.

"No concerns whatsoever, no," said Rodgers. "He is a brilliant player for us, really talented. It was a team performance overall on Saturday that just wasn't quite up to scratch.

"I feel we have managed his recovery really well in the last two seasons.

"Even when Steven was playing international football, I think if you look at his numbers and games and minutes he has played, you'll see in the last couple of seasons that it is as good as it has been in his career.

"He is obviously at an age where we will look at him individually as a player.

"We want him to be involved in our big games because of his experiences and his talent, and we'll always taper that recovery for him to allow him to be at the very best he can be."

Rodgers has revealed how the mood is low in his new-look squad, but he still believes they can emerge as genuine title contenders.

"Of course, you're not all smiles because when you lose games, it's not a feeling we've been used to a lot, especially in the last season or so,” he told the club’s official website.

"But you have to refocus and you have to move on. That's the nature of this level at the top end.

"Us as coaches and managers, we analyse the performance, and it's my job to ensure the confidence is retained within the group.

"It hasn't been a great start by any means, but I have worked with the team enough and I know the players and how they do respond. That honesty in the group and how hard they want to work, it gives me great hope.

"It is a long campaign and we've got a lot of games. As I said, we haven't made a great start by any means, but we'll improve. We've shown in my time here, my team will get better in the second half of the season.”

Liverpool were left with an uphill task after leaking two early goals at West Ham, while Aston Villa also exposed their defensive fragility in the recent 1-0 win at Anfield.

Rodgers accepts his side must raise their standards as they prepare for the Capital One Cup visit of Middlesbrough and Sunday’s Merseyside derby with Everton.

“As a team and a squad, we all respect that we can be much better,” he said. “We're still looking to find our performance level, which apart from Tottenham we haven't quite been at. But it's something I have no doubt about.

"We've been here before. When I first came in, there were a lot of games and new players coming in and, at that time, it was a new manager, but we eventually got to where we wanted to be.

"It's a combination of continual hard work on the training field - working even harder - and looking to really ensure we retain that confidence.

"And obviously cutting out mistakes. We've made mistakes in games, and we just need to make sure that under pressure - which you come under in games - you think clearly."


http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9484368/-No-Concerns-Whatsoever-About-Gerrard



The real problem is Stevie can't play in the def midfield position, never could even. And when you see likes of Agbonlahor and Downing hurrying him into mistakes by no more simple a manoeuvre than harrying him and giving him no chance on the ball, then you'd think Rodgers would wake up. By the statement no chance...if he plays tonight and not rested for Everton, then i truly have seen it all.

If Gerrard still has a place in the team, be it sub or starter, that's where rafa used to play him, just behind torres in a thoughtful no physically demanding role. Then again that was 5 years ago. His time is nearly up.

Lucky we bought a replacement though eh?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 23, 2014, 05:13:27 PM
The real problem is Stevie can't play in the def midfield position, never could even. And when you see likes of Agbonlahor and Downing hurrying him into mistakes by no more simple a manoeuvre than harrying him and giving him no chance on the ball, then you'd think Rodgers would wake up. By the statement no chance...if he plays tonight and not rested for Everton, then i truly have seen it all.

If Gerrard still has a place in the team, be it sub or starter, that's where rafa used to play him, just behind torres in a thoughtful no physically demanding role. Then again that was 5 years ago. His time is nearly up.

Lucky we bought a replacement though eh?

yes, Downing clearly knew how to exploit Gerrard's weaknesses......i.e. harry and hassle him.

Gerrard would have played wide in midfield, in a Liverpool team of mine.....OR, he wouldn't have played at all.

It's very troubling when you see how we gifted the opposition their goals, in these opening games of the season.    e.g. Gerrard's long hopeless high ball being intercepted for the West Ham goal.....or Sakho's mad header back into no-man's land, which West Ham scored from.  Although then again, Sakho probably expected to see a Liverpool central midfielder in that vicinity (where he was heading towards).

One looks to see lessons being learned, after such hiccups.  But no, we make the same mistakes, over and over.

With Gerrard in the side, his lack of tactical discipline is most likely a tad contagious on others in the side.

His time is up.  Play him wide, in these final months of his time at Anfield, or don't play him at all.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 23, 2014, 11:22:24 PM
One looks to see lessons being learned, after such hiccups.  But no, we make the same mistakes, over and over.

That is all we've asked from day one. No-one expects overnight miracles, just some evidence of improvement beginning and then to see steady progress.

It's hard to accept Championship or Scottish football type defending, now into it's third season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 23, 2014, 11:35:17 PM
unless things improve, I think we are witnessing Rodgers final season at Anfield.

you'd be embarrassed if these types of mistakes were being made at championship level.

without a world class forward to keep opponents on the back-foot, we are now seeing our true level.

we will get better - but this feels like a spurs season (i.e. after spending a fortune in a summer, to supposedly  upgrade the team)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 24, 2014, 01:22:39 AM
unless things improve, I think we are witnessing Rodgers final season at Anfield.

you'd be embarrassed if these types of mistakes were being made at championship level.

without a world class forward to keep opponents on the back-foot, we are now seeing our true level.

we will get better - but this feels like a spurs season (i.e. after spending a fortune in a summer, to supposedly  upgrade the team)

It's got the smell of Spurs, although just a whiff at the moment, it's still there all the same and the clear worry is it could very quickly become an overpowering stench.

Whilst we needed more in terms of squad numbers, bringing in so many brings it's own problems and therefore undermines the whole idea of strengthening.
One of the reasons we needed so many was the poor business in previous transfer windows leaving us short of the quantity of quality players needed.

Aspas, Alberto, Ilori and Cissokho from last Summer for starters. If Cissokho had have done well he'd be in his second season already. Likewise the other three, but we've brought in players, wasted funds and are still left no further forward.

Maybe we could have given Suso a chance instead of buying Markovic for this season. £25M spent on two centre halves last Summer, bringing three in in total, and yet still we needed another £20M spending there and another player to integrate.

Two strikers, Can, another out and out defensive midfielder and a left back would have seen us strengthen, whilst only needing to integrate 3 players into the first 11 at any one time if the centre half positions had been sorted last Summer. Then right back in either January or next Summer.

Can could play at the base of the diamond, or on the left of it. Allen on the left if Can's playing at the base. Allen could cover Hendo on the right if he's out, Can on the left and said other defensive midfielder at the base. Two players in and it gives us two possibilities for each of the three positions.

We could have possibly left Manquillo until January though luckily we didn't with the way injuries have gone, or Kelly, who was fit most of last season could have actually been given an extended run until Flanno was back. Johnson's only earned himself a prolonged period on the sidelines with his performances over the last 18 months. Kelly's done very well so far this season at Palace and he'd have been like a new signing without the need to be integrated.

It may not have been the mass strengthening maybe some have said we needed, but it would have been more manageable, probably producing quicker and more sustainable improvement which then could have been built upon further next Summer. As it is instead of building on last season and solidifying our place in the top four as a base to build on again next Summer and continue the upward curve of overall improvement and progress, we could see ourselves back where we were at the end of 2012/13, with all of last season's benefit and improvement wiped away in one go and two more seasons passed, meanwhile the teams we want to be rivals to have strengthened further from where they were at the end of the 2012/13 season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 25, 2014, 11:23:00 PM
So the bitters this Saturday in which both defences are shocking.

This would be my team:- Mignolet, Manquillo, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno, Gerrard, Henderson, Lucas, Sterling, Balotelli, Lambert. In this formation:-

----------------------Mignolet------------------------

--Manquillo------Skrtel---Sakho-----Moreno-----

-----------------------Lucas------------------------

--------------Gerrard---------Henderson--------

----------------------Sterling----------------------

--------------Balotelli-------Lambert--------------

Get three strong (physically I mean) in the midfield to combat their midfielders. Sterling at the tip of the diamond.

I'd play two up front as well. IMO it will be our best chance to win having two up front. Both physically combative players who can also score from set pieces.

I don't expect to see that team though. I'd put Lallana on the bench as he played 120 minutes midweek so he come on from the bench for me.

Bitters will end their Anfield hoodoo one day so let's hope its not this Saturday!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 25, 2014, 11:30:15 PM
unless things improve, I think we are witnessing Rodgers final season at Anfield.

you'd be embarrassed if these types of mistakes were being made at championship level.

without a world class forward to keep opponents on the back-foot, we are now seeing our true level.

we will get better - but this feels like a spurs season (i.e. after spending a fortune in a summer, to supposedly  upgrade the team)

No chance in hell Rodgers is leaving at the end of this season. For that to happen dude we'd have to "finish below 8th, 30 plus points behind 4th place" (unless something happens off the field). AND EVEN THEN like LFC ALWAYS DO we'd give our managers an opportunity to turn it around. Except for Hodgson of course. Kenny was always really an interim so doesn't really count.

So basically there is 0.01% chance of Brendan leaving after this season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 26, 2014, 10:30:06 AM
So the bitters this Saturday in which both defences are shocking.

14-13 to us then.

Naismith is the worry. He finds space well as it between the midfield and defence and we're a complete vacuum there.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 26, 2014, 10:51:48 AM
Kenny was always really an interim so doesn't really count.

So basically there is 0.01% chance of Brendan leaving after this season.

Not on a three year contract he wasn't, and he was dispatched after one bad league, but trophy winning campaign.

So for you it's 8th or below and he's in danger?

That's a possibility. Despite what some would like to believe, our defending has been poor since day one, and if he had it in him to arrest the slide and strengthen the defensive side I'm sure he wouldn't be waiting until the second half of his third season until he does so.
I genuinely believe that's the glaring weakness in his whole philosophy and he doesn't know how to set up a team that's good going forward that's doing so from a strong defensive base.

He needs to bring in some help. The sum abilities of him and his coaching staff is what we've seen over the past two and a bit seasons and defence is our severed achilles, either that or he's wanting to build an attack minded team, playing the sort of football Arsenal have been doing under Wenger, that has had the pundits purring over, and wants it to be 'his' team they talk about the most and replace Wenger's lot in the pundits' and media's conscience.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 26, 2014, 03:32:00 PM
No chance in hell Rodgers is leaving at the end of this season. For that to happen dude we'd have to "finish below 8th, 30 plus points behind 4th place" (unless something happens off the field). AND EVEN THEN like LFC ALWAYS DO we'd give our managers an opportunity to turn it around.

So basically there is 0.01% chance of Brendan leaving after this season.

edward, it was not very long ago, when we had a manager who finished second in the league, a mere 4 points behind the title winners, and who was sacked the next season (for finishing 7th).  Rafa was unceremoniously booted out, without any chance to turn it around.

from wikipedia

on 18 March 2009, shortly after registering a 4–0 victory over Real Madrid and 4–1 victory over Manchester United, Benítez signed a new five-year deal with the club. Benítez said "My heart is with Liverpool, so I'm delighted to sign this new deal, I love the club, the fans and the city and with a club and supporters like this, I could never say no to staying.".   With 10 wins in their last 11 games, Liverpool finished the season on a high, finishing second in the league for the first time under Benítez, four points off champions Manchester United, with Liverpool playing an attractive brand of attacking football at odds

the following season - Liverpool's worst run in 22 years[30] combined with an exit from the Champions League at the group stages led to the first major vocal criticism of Benítez by Liverpool fans (Martin and his mate, Edward).

It was suggested that this Liverpool team was missing Benítez's characteristic defensive rigidness despite the fact that only Manchester United and Chelsea conceded fewer goals than Liverpool, and lacked the necessary depth to cope with injuries to key players such as Gerrard and Torres while Benítez's decision making was called into question.

Benítez left the club "by mutual consent" on 3 June 2010 with a reported £6m pay off; the media speculated that this was because the team had finished seventh in the Premier League missing out on the Champions League, and poor results such as the defeat by Wigan Athletic. Shortly after his departure from Anfield, Benítez made a £96,000 donation to the Hillsborough Family Support Group.

*end of paste*

Rafa had been successful in his time at Anfield.....winning several trophies.....and got to two CL finals.

One blip, and he was gone.

Now, I happen to believe that our new owners would have not sacked him for that one blip.   

And maybe they will have more faith in holding onto Rodgers, should he have a bad season this year.

But I do not think 6th, 7th or 8th is on their radar.  With a large development going on, of the stadium, our owners will want to see progress on the pitch too.

Unlike Rafa, Rodgers has had a record-breaking summer of cash to spend. 

And I happen to suspect that Brendan has probably alienated a few people - like Reina and Agger.

Given how far up his own ar.s.e that our manager is, I think many will come out of the woodwork when things go south. 



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 26, 2014, 06:55:44 PM
Rafa wasn't sacked for on the field results though. He was sacked because he and Purslow/H&G had an untenable relationship.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 26, 2014, 07:32:50 PM
Rafa wasn't sacked for on the field results though. He was sacked because he and Purslow/H&G had an untenable relationship.

shankly had issues with the liverpool board

so did clough at derby, leeds and forest.

ferguson had issues, at times, with his board at united....indeed even falling out with major shareholders (over a race horse).

as for Rafa......tell me, who doesn't have issues with Hicks and Gillett?  Two of the scummiest barstewards ever to have set foot in Anfield.

On the contrary, I'd have been very very concerned if Rafa had got on with the two c.u.nts.

Rafa was the best manager at the club since Bob Paisley.  IMHO   Sacking him was a crime against humanity.   
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 26, 2014, 11:02:30 PM
Yet we only challenged for the title once under him. The same amount of times as your anti-christ Brendan Rodgers.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 27, 2014, 12:30:35 PM
Incredible really Moreno starts over Enrique. Why not keep Enrique and Sakho. This doesn't bode well.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 12:37:56 PM
Incredible really Moreno starts over Enrique. Why not keep Enrique and Sakho. This doesn't bode well.

Is Enrique totally fit? I wonder whether he's having to be eased back in.

As for Sakho? Who knows what goes through the manager's head where defence is concerned.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 12:44:13 PM
Yet we only challenged for the title once under him. The same amount of times as your anti-christ Brendan Rodgers.

224, do you have some sort of personal connection to Rodgers? Benitez was 'the anti-christ' plenty of times too. It's nothing personal.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 12:54:27 PM
..... Sakho. This doesn't bode well.

http://backpagefootball.com/pic-sakho-walks-anfield-dropped/84563/ (http://backpagefootball.com/pic-sakho-walks-anfield-dropped/84563/)


Keep chopping and changing the defence will never see partnerships formed and understandings developed. He did this last season, granted, sometimes it was forced on him, and it didn't work then either.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 27, 2014, 01:03:42 PM
Who knows what goes through the manager's head where defence is concerned.

probably air - or the sound of wind whistling
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 27, 2014, 01:44:29 PM
Is Enrique totally fit? I wonder whether he's having to be eased back in.

As for Sakho? Who knows what goes through the manager's head where defence is concerned.

Fit or not he sure as hell looked fit enough for me against Boro. Sakho not even on the bench so there might be niggle or something.

Good first half after all. A tad worrying we're not up by 1 or 2. Need to take Markovic and Sterling off for Coutinho and Lambert.

Come on you redmen!!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 01:48:03 PM
Good to see Suso rewarded for his hard work and performances when given the opportunities.  ::)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 01:56:34 PM

Good first half after all. A tad worrying we're not up by 1 or 2. Need to take Markovic and Sterling off for Coutinho and Lambert.


I'd initially just swop Markovic for Lambert, go with the diamond, Sterling at it's tip, Lallana on the left. Consider bringing Suso on later. I'd leave Coutinho where he is as he's out of form. Markovic will take time to settle and adapt I think. Whilst he needs time and match exposure, we're not in a situation to give him full games if he's not contributing a great deal.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 27, 2014, 03:17:56 PM
Again and again and again..........

Lovren, Markovic and Balotelli are terrible signings. Absolutely terrible.

Lallana and Moreno shining lights though.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 27, 2014, 03:29:32 PM
224, do you have some sort of personal connection to Rodgers? Benitez was 'the anti-christ' plenty of times too. It's nothing personal.

No I don't and I am criticising Brendan this season believe me. But I am not in the business of re-writing history to skew an discussing my way. Rafa likes facts, so should Dude. So I listed a few. Deal with it.

But yeah I am criticising Brendan a hell of a lot. We need a settled defence. I don't particularly care who it is - even if I think Lovren is crap and Sakho is a our best defender - we just need to keep the same back four week in and week out and it will settle the whole team.

I think some of the signings have been very poor and some excellent. Markovic I can't see what he provides. We could have signed a dozen better players then him for that money. Lovren for £20m is a complete joke. We could have gone MUCH better defenders for that money. Lallana and Moreno are class acts.

So I don't kiss Brendan's backside and he deserves criticism.

Our CL hopes are 90% over now. Just got to try and win a cup and finish 5th/6th and get into europe next season.

Hell it might be easier getting back into the CL by winning the europa than getting into the top 4.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 27, 2014, 03:36:57 PM
Again and again and again..........

Lovren, Markovic and Balotelli are terrible signings. Absolutely terrible.

Lallana and Moreno shining lights though.

The same Moreno that almost gave a Point away in the dying seconds by giving away a totally needless free-kick?

Balotelli arguably our best player today behind Lallana.

Other than that an extremely unlucky draw. As I've said before we will miss out on 4th with quite a margin finishing some 20 points worse this season than last. I hear Sakho stormed out of the dressing room after being dropped and I totally understand him. I question Rodgers more and more. He drops one of the finest CB's in the League but allow Marcovic and Sterling underperform in a derby without taking due action.

We are a mid-table club in everything we do like paying 20 million for Markovic suggest that. Sterling heavily overrated.

I'll be fornicating happy if we make the top-half. Rodger's just another Liverpool manager who failed to build on a runner's up place.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on September 27, 2014, 03:50:55 PM
I actually like Balotelli but he hasn't got the movement we need from a striker for our attacking midfielders to thrive. We made the wrong decision in signing him as a direct replacement for Suarez.

As an additional striker as a supplement to that replacement striker he'd have been perfect in that regard.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 04:04:59 PM
But yeah I am criticising Brendan a hell of a lot.

So I don't kiss Brendan's backside and he deserves criticism.


So untether your high horse, slap it on the bottom and let it bolt, and quit jumping on others when they do the same.

Everybody's having a go this season, and rightly so, like last season when he was rightly being praised (despite his refusal to do anything about the defending), by everyone.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 04:08:10 PM
Again and again and again..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxbV_UFOtME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxbV_UFOtME)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 04:15:36 PM
The same Moreno that almost gave a Point away in the dying seconds by giving away a totally needless free-kick?

When we were going through the torture of signing him it was pointed out that Moreno's defending was not his strongest point. He has been far better than I expected him to be.

It seems a consistent theme amongst pro footballers that they make unnecessary, silly, pointless attempts at tackles, and hence fouls and are no less likely to do it in what us mere mortals would see as being dangerous areas.

So far he's definitely in the 'success' column, though it's massively early days either way. Likewise Lallana. As his match fitness and sharpness develops, he is looking better and better. His pre-season injury is looking like a bigger and bigger turning point in our early season slump.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 04:28:46 PM
We need a settled defence.

That's definitely part of the problem, but the real issue is his coaching and philosophy. It's been clear since before the end of the first season that this is either a massive blind spot or he just doesn't know how, when it comes to the defensive side of the game.

Lovren, Skrtel, Sakho, Kelly now he's left - all examples of players who are or have been worse than they've been under other managers and in Lovren and Sakho's cases, other teams. Kelly's been superb at Palace by all accounts, but then we know that Pulis and Wazzack can at least coach the defensive basics to a more than functional standard.

Rodgers needs to lose the ego, swallow his pride and get himself some help with this side of the game.

What else is stopping him correct something that's been glaringly obvious throughout his time here?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 05:24:20 PM
I think some of the signings have been very poor and some excellent. Markovic I can't see what he provides. We could have signed a dozen better players then him for that money. Lovren for £20m is a complete joke. We could have gone MUCH better defenders for that money. Lallana and Moreno are class acts.

Your first sentence pretty much sums it up for me. Most of our transfer business has been unimaginative and uninspiring over the past two Summers. The first Summer I'm happy enough to put down to a new manager coming in and not knowing what he had and what he needed, which will always be the case.

Why did someone at the club think it was a good idea to bring in Barry Hunter and Dave Fallows from City?
City of all places. A club that has just gone out and paid however much was required to buy all the known players they have since the new owners came in. Even Chelsea at least have scouted and brought in some 'lesser names' and assembled quite a few excellent young players over the last 5 or 6 years.

Our budget buys have been total duds. We've been buying the likes or Ilori and Alberto and now Markovic as players for the future (I think), when we're not at a stage where we can do that. We've handsomely overpaid time and again, and now matter how much or little (Assaidi) we've paid, it keeps proving to be very poor value, both in monetary and footballing terms.

Was there a planned list for the scenario of Suarez staying, another if he left, yes he really was that important to warrant such an approach, or have we just carried on 'regardless', because where was the plan to deal with his leaving? We cast around cluelessly and desperately to get a striker, any striker, even though the writing was clearly on the wall after last Summer and with the definitive clause in his new contract in December, yet we've acted like we were taken totally by surprise by him leaving. If Balotelli was the answer then it required a different way of playing to utilise his strengths as he doesn't really fit into the way we played last season. And if we therefore require a different approach, have we bought players to suit that different approach, or does Balotelli just get shoehorned in and hope it works?

Was Markovic, Lovren and Lallana really the best we could get for the fees paid? And what about midfield? Too few goals, too little creation unless we can hit teams quick on the break, or win the game in the first 20 minutes and where's the defensive protection? Relying on a back four that's quite often a back two when you send your full backs marauding forward at the same time, is mindless stupidity, boarding on negligence.

The sheer amount of players brought in is also a problem. Whilst I agree that we were short on numbers and we discussed the fact we only had a core of 13-16 players who were of the standard required, by bringing in large numbers to bulk up squad numbers, you can undermine the very thing you're trying to strengthen - the first 11 selected on any day. Afterall, the squad is there to funnel down to create the strongest and most suitable first 11 (and bench) possible for any given match. In trying to strengthen the squad numbers we've arguably weakened the best first 11s we can put out. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 08:12:11 PM
Markovic. Absolutely terrible.

Going on form and contribution, surely Suso now deserves a start ahead of Markovic. Who knows, we might even save ourselves another £20M next Summer by giving Suso a run and getting him to sign a new contract, even if it's only a couple of years at this stage.

Maybe we could find Markovic a loan in January to another PL team that actually tries to play football, a Southampton or a Villa.

I know we paid an huge fee form him and it sees a bit off sending a £20M priced tagged player out on loan, but I get the feeling we didn't pay £20M for what he's got now. This is another 'investment for the future'.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 27, 2014, 08:13:51 PM
Your first sentence pretty much sums it up for me. Most of our transfer business has been unimaginative and uninspiring over the past two Summers. The first Summer I'm happy enough to put down to a new manager coming in and not knowing what he had and what he needed, which will always be the case.

Why did someone at the club think it was a good idea to bring in Barry Hunter and Dave Fallows from City?
City of all places. A club that has just gone out and paid however much was required to buy all the known players they have since the new owners came in. Even Chelsea at least have scouted and brought in some 'lesser names' and assembled quite a few excellent young players over the last 5 or 6 years.

Our budget buys have been total duds. We've been buying the likes or Ilori and Alberto and now Markovic as players for the future (I think), when we're not at a stage where we can do that. We've handsomely overpaid time and again, and now matter how much or little (Assaidi) we've paid, it keeps proving to be very poor value, both in monetary and footballing terms.

Was there a planned list for the scenario of Suarez staying, another if he left, yes he really was that important to warrant such an approach, or have we just carried on 'regardless', because where was the plan to deal with his leaving? We cast around cluelessly and desperately to get a striker, any striker, even though the writing was clearly on the wall after last Summer and with the definitive clause in his new contract in December, yet we've acted like we were taken totally by surprise by him leaving. If Balotelli was the answer then it required a different way of playing to utilise his strengths as he doesn't really fit into the way we played last season. And if we therefore require a different approach, have we bought players to suit that different approach, or does Balotelli just get shoehorned in and hope it works?

Was Markovic, Lovren and Lallana really the best we could get for the fees paid? And what about midfield? Too few goals, too little creation unless we can hit teams quick on the break, or win the game in the first 20 minutes and where's the defensive protection? Relying on a back four that's quite often a back two when you send your full backs marauding forward at the same time, is mindless stupidity, boarding on negligence.

The sheer amount of players brought in is also a problem. Whilst I agree that we were short on numbers and we discussed the fact we only had a core of 13-16 players who were of the standard required, by bringing in large numbers to bulk up squad numbers, you can undermine the very thing you're trying to strengthen - the first 11 selected on any day. Afterall, the squad is there to funnel down to create the strongest and most suitable first 11 (and bench) possible for any given match. In trying to strengthen the squad numbers we've arguably weakened the best first 11s we can put out.

As much as it hurts, I second every word of that Tes. It seems whatever progress we've made over the last 18 months is completely gone and it is in no small part due to the fact we've failed to get the right players in. Lallana I really think is improving over the last two games and could come good. Also, we bought him about a month before we sold Suarez.

I'm totally down and out. I had this niggling feeling all summer we'd suffer some sort of reaction, but I could never imagine we would lose every aspect of our game so rapidly. Rodgers, as much as I hate to admit it, seems totally found out no matter who we play. Nor does it help he wouldn't recognise his best XI if it jumped up and bit his balls. He had a golden opportunity to build on Sakho/Enrique but chose to alienate both players.

It just hurts to see this house of cards collapsing.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 27, 2014, 08:36:54 PM
It's early days I know but I'm seriously wondering whether Rodgers have what it takes? My feeling is he doesn't. No knee-jerkreaction, just looking at how disjointed and lethargic we look this season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 09:20:01 PM
As much as it hurts, I second every word of that Tes. It seems whatever progress we've made over the last 18 months is completely gone and it is in no small part due to the fact we've failed to get the right players in. Lallana I really think is improving over the last two games and could come good. Also, we bought him about a month before we sold Suarez.

I'm totally down and out. I had this niggling feeling all summer we'd suffer some sort of reaction, but I could never imagine we would lose every aspect of our game so rapidly. Rodgers, as much as I hate to admit it, seems totally found out no matter who we play. Nor does it help he wouldn't recognise his best XI if it jumped up and bit his balls. He had a golden opportunity to build on Sakho/Enrique but chose to alienate both players.

It just hurts to see this house of cards collapsing.

To carry on the theme of our transfer business:

Liverpool are broken, says manager Brendan Rodgers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29364830 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29364830)

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has admitted his team are a "little bit broken" after three defeats in their first five Premier League matches.

Rodgers, whose side are 11th in the table, said
the introduction of new players had disrupted his philosophy.

"We're reintroducing the principles that brought us the win ratio we've had over the last 18 months," he said.

"Our game was based on high intensity but, apart from that Tottenham game, we've moved away from that."


Liverpool beat Tottenham 3-0 at White Hart Lane on 31 August, but have since lost two successive league games, to Aston Villa and West Ham.

They were also unconvincing in recent victories over Champions League opponents Ludogorets Razgrad and Middlesbrough in the Capital One Cup on Tuesday.

Faltering Liverpool

Liverpool lost three of their opening five league games two seasons ago. It previously happened in 1959, when they were a Second Division club.

The Anfield side had the majority of possession (62%) at Upton Park but West Ham had more shots, 13 in total and seven on target.

Mario Balotelli has not scored a Premier League goal since November 2012.

"We put in a lot of hard work in the first six months to a year we were here, and a lot of those processes became natural," added the Northern Irishman, who joined the club in 2012. "The consequence of that was winning.


"But we introduced a raft of new players - you lose the core of players who were important, and that's obviously a factor and then it becomes a bit broken.

"That's how our game has looked for a big part of the season, but I have a group of players here who identify with that.


"We need to get back and refocus on what has allowed us win games consistently over the last 18 months to two years."

Liverpool finished second last season, two points adrift of eventual champions Manchester City, but over the summer sold top scorer Luis Suarez and brought in nine players.

 Rodgers also said injuries, notably to striker Daniel Sturridge, had not helped the team's cause.

The 41-year-old said he would continue to assess Sturridge's fitness before deciding whether to include the England striker in the squad for Saturday's Merseyside derby at Anfield.

"He's someone who responds well to treatment," said Rodgers of the 25-year-old, who strained his thigh while on international duty.

"He's out on the field but there's still a couple of days to go before the game. He certainly won't be match fit but it'll be great to have him back because he's a wonderful player for us.

"We'll be very happy to have him back and we're hoping that can be this weekend, but we'll assess over the next couple of days."

On speculation linking England teenager Raheem Sterling with Real Madrid,   Rodgers said he was unconcerned.

"It shows that he's obviously playing exceptionally well," he said of the 19-year-old.

"I think you could link Raheem with every club in the world at the moment, He's a fantastic young talent. I sit easy with it."




The parts in bold I think are the most relevant and interesting parts. Surely if you have a 'philosophy' or method/style, you bring in players who fit that and can enhance, rather than disrupt it. Likewise, if introducing a certain number of faces means that "you lose the core of players who were important", (though I don't understand that. Only Suarez has left. I think he may have misphrased it) then surely you make sure you don't 'dilute' things down to that level.

Last season our strength was our attack and our obvious achilles heel was the defensive side. So the latter should have been the focus and priority, and not just the back four. Gerrard was never going to be able to play 38 league games  + CL matches this season. He was 'out of it' and the end of last season, and this would only become worse, and that's before we even consider his suitability or otherwise for the position.

So is Can supposed to be the entire solution to that?

With Suarez leaving (though hardly a shock), we then had another priority - replacing his goals and creation. However a part of the Suarez conundrum would be addressed by sorting out the priority of defending. Conceding fewer would see us needing to score fewer.

Have we really addressed either priority, or have we done it in a half hearted fashion by bringing in other players that weren't priority? As Edward says, however good or otherwise Balotelli is, he's not the right type of striker and doesn't fit into the team easily. Is that an indicator in itself of the lack of planning for Suarez's (eventual) inevitable departure?

The more players you bring in the greater risk of instability. Also by targeting so many can focus on suitability be diluted also, as your focus is spread much thinner?

Was Balotelli partly ego driven. Suarez has improved since Rodgers has been here. That's beyond dispute. Also, he was superbly behaved last season (at least whilst playing for us) and having channeled Suarez's energies and personality in the right way, did he want to prove that he could succeed in taming the beast of Balotelli where other more experienced managers had failed? He certainly seems to have a need for his 'abilities' to be recognised and never fails to mention his 'extensive' experience as a coach. Did last season go to his head somewhat? Early success can have a warping effect like that.

I'm not trying to do a character assassination on Rodgers, just putting things out there and trying to understand what was behind the whos and whys of our transfer dealings this Summer, as Rodgers in that interview seems to be casting some doubts on certain aspects of them.   
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 27, 2014, 10:06:42 PM
It's early days I know but I'm seriously wondering whether Rodgers have what it takes? My feeling is he doesn't. No knee-jerkreaction, just looking at how disjointed and lethargic we look this season.

Maybe he's tried to introduce too many too soon. It was the mistake ultimately that Spurs made. Sometimes you have to let the mortar set on the first few courses before you add the next few.

You can't expand and improve the squad overall if it dilutes the starting 11 in any way. You're better off adding the required numbers more slowly and reducing the chances of the disjointedness we've seen so far this season, even if we have to run on a more 'compact' squad again this season than maybe we'd like.
Spread the focus between the league and CL until we've got out of the group, thereby securing a knock out tie and two more games and then focus on the PL from that point forward for the rest of the season and ensure we're back in the competition again next season. Then we add another layer of expansion (2 or 3 more) and go again.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 27, 2014, 10:19:11 PM
Maybe he's tried to introduce too many too soon. It was the mistake ultimately that Spurs made. Sometimes you have to let the mortar set on the first few courses before you add the next few.

You can't expand and improve the squad overall if it dilutes the starting 11 in any way. You're better off adding the required numbers more slowly and reducing the chances of the disjointedness we've seen so far this season, even if we have to run on a more 'compact' squad again this season than maybe we'd like.
Spread the focus between the league and CL until we've got out of the group, thereby securing a knock out tie and two more games and then focus on the PL from that point forward for the rest of the season and ensure we're back in the competition again next season. Then we add another layer of expansion (2 or 3 more) and go again.

I agree with that although injuries haven't helped. The main flaw though, is, the way I see it, our refusal to appreciate the value of having a world-class player in the squad. That's why I fear the Scum will replace us at the top-4 this season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 28, 2014, 01:19:41 AM
I agree with that although injuries haven't helped. The main flaw though, is, the way I see it, our refusal to appreciate the value of having a world-class player in the squad. That's why I fear the Scum will replace us at the top-4 this season.

Contracts seem to count for nothing now, Martin. It's really hard for club's to keep players against their will. What I'm more concerned about is our apparent lack of a plan for when he left. By having that £75M clause inserted into his contract, and one that was obviously far more watertight than the previous £40M one, it was nailed one he would be leaving.
Whether we like it or not, the owners would also have been thinking about the effect it would have on our sponsors and how it could affect both existing and potential ones.
We have to accept that if we want the play to pay the ridiculous transfer fees and wages that are the norm, then we have to accept the importance that the revenue from sponsors and partners plays in that, and our ability to attract and be able to renew lucrative deals with them. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 28, 2014, 01:22:43 AM
I hear Sakho stormed out of the dressing room after being dropped and I totally understand him.

It would seem that Rodgers doesn't rate him, which if it is the case, and he probably wasn't one of his 'choices', then what are we doing allowing the transfer committee to spend £18M+ on a player that the manager isn't 100% with.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 28, 2014, 01:26:14 AM
Sterling needs REST! Liverpool's Rodgers asks Hodgson to drop star from England squad

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/516105/Raheem-Sterling-Liverpool-Brendan-Rodgers-England-Euro-2016 (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/516105/Raheem-Sterling-Liverpool-Brendan-Rodgers-England-Euro-2016)

We've got more chance of signing Luis back for £25M in January than we have of that senile old duffer giving Raheem a rest. Look how he treated Sturridge.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on September 28, 2014, 10:51:11 AM
I notice Alonso has just broken a German record of touches on the ball. 206 to the previous record of Thiago's 187. Tragic that we didnt buy him for 5 mil..
I saw the game yesterday and i have to say at least we weren't quite as woeful as against west ham.
I thought lallana gets better and better and Henderson did well. Balotelli was ok but not getting much service and so having to create from out of nothing.
I think the 2 spanish fullbacks are a positive as well despite moreno's lapses. I'm hoping that they will stop as he becomes more accustomed with the league.
How Suso didnt start is beyond me and as Markovic didnt add anything to the game, his omission made it doubly bad.
Gerrard did well for the goal, but tired badly for the end of the game which is partly why we looked so nervous at the end.
A joke that Rodgers is asking Hodgson to rest Sterling when he plays him for 120 mins in the league cup.
Can is going to be out for at least another month but i'm hoping both allen and sturridge will be back asap and steady the ship somewhat.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 28, 2014, 12:25:37 PM
I notice Alonso has just broken a German record of touches on the ball. 206 to the previous record of Thiago's 187. Tragic that we didnt buy him for 5 mil..
I saw the game yesterday and i have to say at least we weren't quite as woeful as against west ham.
I thought lallana gets better and better and Henderson did well. Balotelli was ok but not getting much service and so having to create from out of nothing.
I think the 2 spanish fullbacks are a positive as well despite moreno's lapses. I'm hoping that they will stop as he becomes more accustomed with the league.
How Suso didnt start is beyond me and as Markovic didnt add anything to the game, his omission made it doubly bad.
Gerrard did well for the goal, but tired badly for the end of the game which is partly why we looked so nervous at the end.
A joke that Rodgers is asking Hodgson to rest Sterling when he plays him for 120 mins in the league cup.
Can is going to be out for at least another month but i'm hoping both allen and sturridge will be back asap and steady the ship somewhat.

I agree with all of that Bart, except the bit about the National team. I don't want our players playing for that fossil as he can't respect the specialist training schedules we provide.

Whatever Rodgers says about giving players a chance and selections are based on form/merit it seems to apply to some more than others, and not apply either way to other players.

It's going to be a huge mistake to lose Suso on a free. He's not going to be a truly world class but he definitely has something to offer. The purchase of Alberto and loaning of Suso last Summer made no sense, and choosing to spend £20M on Markovic without giving Suso a chance to see if the season out on loan had helped developed him made just as little.
Utilising Suso would also mean having an additional player to what we had last season but without the need for any of the settling in. Based on what they've both shown in pre-season and the little they've played, Suso was the more deserving of the start yesterday than Markovic.

Where's the motivation for a player if he comes in and does well, only to be dropped again in favour of someone out of form? Not only did he score against Boro, he scored both his penalties, and let's remember, he is still only 20, the same age as Markovic, but the age aspect seems only to be used in the favour of one of the two.   
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 28, 2014, 06:50:01 PM
I agree with all of that Bart, except the bit about the National team. I don't want our players playing for that fossil as he can't respect the specialist training schedules we provide.

Whatever Rodgers says about giving players a chance and selections are based on form/merit it seems to apply to some more than others, and not apply either way to other players.

It's going to be a huge mistake to lose Suso on a free. He's not going to be a truly world class but he definitely has something to offer. The purchase of Alberto and loaning of Suso last Summer made no sense, and choosing to spend £20M on Markovic without giving Suso a chance to see if the season out on loan had helped developed him made just as little.
Utilising Suso would also mean having an additional player to what we had last season but without the need for any of the settling in. Based on what they've both shown in pre-season and the little they've played, Suso was the more deserving of the start yesterday than Markovic.

Where's the motivation for a player if he comes in and does well, only to be dropped again in favour of someone out of form? Not only did he score against Boro, he scored both his penalties, and let's remember, he is still only 20, the same age as Markovic, but the age aspect seems only to be used in the favour of one of the two.

This is exactly why I think Rodgers have lost the plot. Too many inconsistencies and contradictions in his leadership.

His treating of Sakho fills me both with anger and despise. He's one of the best under 25 CB's in Europe and gets treated like crap - hell, even good old Djimi who never hit the ball right in his 3 seasons with us got a better treatment. We should be happy and proud to have such a talented player at our club.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 29, 2014, 11:29:18 AM
This is exactly why I think Rodgers have lost the plot. Too many inconsistencies and contradictions in his leadership.

Cheer up, Martin, it could be worse. We could have a hugely inexperienced manager with only 3 seasons' top flight managerial experience and a 'yes man', instead of strong and influential coach, as his assistant, in charge of us.
















































































































































































Oh, sh!t, we have. Press that big red button marked 'Panic'.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on September 29, 2014, 01:00:08 PM
 ;D ;D ;D

On a sidenote, my manc mate can't believe the treatment of Sakho at Liverpool. He has it he would probably play for any topside in Europe bar possibly PSG and Bayern. So when rivals fans can see what Rodgers can't, then it's bad.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 29, 2014, 02:11:14 PM
;D ;D ;D

On a sidenote, my manc mate can't believe the treatment of Sakho at Liverpool. He has it he would probably play for any topside in Europe bar possibly PSG and Bayern. So when rivals fans can see what Rodgers can't, then it's bad.

I'm becoming more convinced that it was a 'committee signing' rather than Rodgers' own personal choice.

This whole committee thing and how it works seems a bit hazy.
Does the manager separately and/or as part of the committee put forward targets for the financial side of any deal to be considered and if approved we attempt to sign that player?
Or is there a list of targets put forward by the manager, and another by the committee, or does the manager put forward his list of targets and they're considered by the committee in both footballing and financial terms and those approved we try and buy?
Can anybody as part of the committee, in addition to the manager, put forward a player for consideration - ie, Dave Fallows is part of the committee. If he or Barry Hunter (the chief scout) have a player in mind they think is suitable, but Rodgers disagrees, can Fallows still put the name forward for consideration, thereby going over the manager's head?
Can the committee not approve a player on footballing grounds, even though the manager thinks he's suitable?

As far as I'm concerned the manager HAS to have final say on any player signed, at least from a footballing perspective, and from a finance one, the manager's valuation should be the one taken for consideration, as it's up to the manager how he uses the available transfer funds. Also the manager should have an input on the salary level. The manager may not want a certain player on a certain level of salary, especially younger players. Rodgers is known  not to favour giving young players a large basic, but instead have a low basic, heavily incentivised by performance bonuses, with the option of regularly reviewing the basic salary level if the young player is maker a bigger and bigger contribution. Sterling being the ideal example of this.

Every player brought in and sold should be the manager's choice. He is the one that has to fashion a squad and team out of the collection of players at the club, and he is the one that pays with his job if players fail to settle, fit in and contribute to the team and performances and results suffer accordingly.
The only exception to that is when a player does something that brings the club into disrepute and could have a seriously negative knock on effect on the club's income and revenue.

There seems to be subtle, and not so subtle differences in the way players are treated. Players who were at the club before Rodgers arrived, with a few notable exceptions (Gerrard, Skrtel) seem to be treated the worse. Followed by 'committee signings' and his choices appear to be looked on more favourably.

Did Sakho deserve to be dropped in favour of Skrtel coming straight back in and replacing Lovren as the right sided centre half, and then Lovren replacing him as the left sided centre half?
Has Lovren been a better left sided centre half this season than Sakho? Has Skrtel been the best right sided centre half (including Lovren)? Are Skrtel and Lovren really the two most in form centre halves at the club?
Is their collective 'qualities' the most suitable blend?

Whichever way around it is, Rodgers now needs to stick with a pairing (injuries permitting) and try and develop an understanding between the two.
Sakho's had two partners, likewise Skrtel and Lovren and Lovren's had two positions also. However, based on form, is Skrtel/Lovren the best combination?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 29, 2014, 05:28:48 PM
looks like my evil twin, TheyPissedonMyRug, hacked Martin's account in here, and has been posting all manner of stuff.   ;D

PS Martin, I gotta agree with most of what you say.   For me it has always been the lack of balance.  The lack of balance, or ability to create it by the boss, was masked previously by having a world class forward, who always kept the opposition on the back foot.

Without Suarez, we are now on the back foot.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 29, 2014, 05:29:41 PM
paddypower has Rafa as top choice - at 9/1 - to be our new manager.

just sayin....
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 29, 2014, 07:20:47 PM
paddypower has Rafa as top choice - at 9/1 - to be our new manager.

just sayin....

Dude must have shares the Can o'worms business.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on September 30, 2014, 04:46:12 AM
 :D

and perfect timing too.  He leaves Napoli and comes home to his homestead in Liverpool.

Return of the Rafa.

The new players could learn so much under the master.

And the new Spanish kids, i.e. the two full-backs, would feel right at home, under his expert guidance.

Just sayin...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on September 30, 2014, 11:24:54 AM
Mario Balotelli is an overpaid penalty taker! Brendan Rodgers is setting himself up for a fall with this one

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2774546/Mario-Balotelli-overpaid-penalty-taker-Brendan-Rodgers-setting-fall.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2774546/Mario-Balotelli-overpaid-penalty-taker-Brendan-Rodgers-setting-fall.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)

What a terrible article. The reason supporters are picking up on any positives is because they want him to succeed and are therefore being 'supportive' and encouraging in order to make him feel 'loved and wanted' and hopefully help and the manager get the best from him.

No mention of the real problem - the fact he's not a pacy forward, with great movement that combines with his other forward team mates to form a fluid and interchanging front line.

He may not be the most clinical finisher, but Suarez's finishing was not better in his first season and a half, and he didn't finish every opportunity that came his. Suarez mostly got more chances per game than Balotelli has so far. Again, that's a point Durham misses.

Balotelli's not been great, but let's keep some perspective. Suarez was about the same age when we signed him and only really became prolific and more clinical in his third season (or second full one). Whilst Balotelli will never be the mobile, fast paced striker Suarez was, he can increase his conversion rate of chances into goals, and improve a lot in that area like Suarez did. Also he's shown an ability to hold the ball and bring others into play. Workrate can always be improved upon too.

We may have to alter the way we attack and build to get the best from Balotelli, but that's the manager's job to sort that out, having decided to sign him, hopefully, you'd think he already had the ideas of how to incorporate him the best way.

Additionally, he's been unlucky that his strike partner has been injured, and we've not really got a suitable replacement, so he's found himself up front on his own too much.
     
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 01, 2014, 12:06:16 PM
Rodgers is right that Sturridge shouldn't play for England - Danny Welbeck should

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/patrick-barclay-rodgers-is-right-that-sturridge-shouldnt-play-for-england--danny-welbeck-should-9766725.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/patrick-barclay-rodgers-is-right-that-sturridge-shouldnt-play-for-england--danny-welbeck-should-9766725.html)

WOW!!!! Patrick Barclay breaks a lifelong habit and written something that is 'common sense'.

It still manages to have an anti-LFC, and specifically Rodgers theme to it, even though he's agreeing with Rodgers' sentiments.

"England training, meanwhile, should be designed in consultation with club medical experts. That’s how the system should operate and, as Rodgers well knows, does."

So which is it, should or does operate like that?
If it does then it didn't in Sturridge's case, and not only have we lost the player for a number of games, Hodgson has lost him for 3 games too. All avoidable. All down to Hodgson's jurassic attitude and methods.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 01, 2014, 12:12:23 PM
Liverpool set to offer Steven Gerrard fresh contract despite dip in form

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/402646/Liverpool-Steven-Gerrard-contract (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/402646/Liverpool-Steven-Gerrard-contract)

Madness! We and he (Gerrard) can afford to wait until the end of the season, especially as contracts tend to run to the end of June or July, to decide if it's warranted.
On his form at the end of last season, and so far this season (on free kick excepted), he is not up to the standard required.

Gerrard also needs to accept his failing performance levels and sensibly end his top class career at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 01, 2014, 12:19:56 PM
Rodgers is right that Sturridge shouldn't play for England - Danny Welbeck should

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/patrick-barclay-rodgers-is-right-that-sturridge-shouldnt-play-for-england--danny-welbeck-should-9766725.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/patrick-barclay-rodgers-is-right-that-sturridge-shouldnt-play-for-england--danny-welbeck-should-9766725.html)

WOW!!!! Patrick Barclay breaks a lifelong habit and written something that is 'common sense'.

It still manages to have an anti-LFC, and specifically Rodgers theme to it, even though he's agreeing with Rodgers' sentiments.

"England training, meanwhile, should be designed in consultation with club medical experts. That’s how the system should operate and, as Rodgers well knows, does."

So which is it, should or does operate like that?
If it does then it didn't in Sturridge's case, and not only have we lost the player for a number of games, Hodgson has lost him for 3 games too. All avoidable. All down to Hodgson's jurassic attitude and methods.

England boss Roy Hodgson in crunch talks over whether to call up Liverpool's Daniel Sturridge

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/england-boss-roy-hodgson-in-crunch-talks-over-whether-to-call-up-liverpools-daniel-sturridge-9766861.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/england-boss-roy-hodgson-in-crunch-talks-over-whether-to-call-up-liverpools-daniel-sturridge-9766861.html)

"Meanwhile, Hodgson is likely to keep England’s crucial Under-21 play-off against Croatia in mind when naming his squad.

The youngsters will advance to next summer’s European Under-21 Championships if they win the two-leg tie, which takes place at Molineux on October 10, with the away game four days later.

The senior side’s games against San Marino and Estonia are scheduled for October 9 and October 12 respectively, meaning fringe players like Arsenal’s Calum Chambers and John Stones of Everton may be allowed to join with the Under-21s instead of the seniors. 
"

Sterling should play for the Under-21s also and not for the seniors in the two qualifiers. It's important that young players get a chance to experience tournament football, and Sterling playing for them will increase that chance.
Also, if Hodgson can't fashion a team to get past San Marino and Estonia without Sturridge and Sterling, then it's about time he goes back to amateur Scandinavian football, which is arguably still above his level.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 01, 2014, 01:49:21 PM
Sturridge should have refused to do the full training routine.

The clubs are in a difficult scenario, when trying to deal with the England setup.

BUT the player is in a much better position of power.

If I am a player, and I think the england coaches are not respecting my fitness concerns, I can threaten to pack my bags and head for home.  There is no criminal, or civil, law that forces someone to train and play for their country.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 01, 2014, 07:24:14 PM
:D

and perfect timing too.  He leaves Napoli and comes home to his homestead in Liverpool.

Return of the Rafa.

The new players could learn so much under the master.

And the new Spanish kids, i.e. the two full-backs, would feel right at home, under his expert guidance.

Just sayin...

Yes he's doing such a superb job in Naples  ;D Where he has a chairman who has actually given him money. Shock horror!!!!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 01, 2014, 07:41:23 PM
There is no criminal, or civil, law that forces someone to train and play for their country.

True, but there is FIFA's rules, and they have the power to ban/suspended a player from domestic football for not making themselves available (in every aspect of the term) for international football if selected.

As an international manager deals with the players for such a short period of time, they should adhere to the fitness regime the clubs develop. Due to Hodgson being a complete cretin and not doing so, he's not only cost us the usage of Sturridge, he's potentially cost himself 3 games loss also.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 01, 2014, 07:45:13 PM
:D

and perfect timing too.  He leaves Napoli and comes home to his homestead in Liverpool.

Return of the Rafa.

The new players could learn so much under the master.

And the new Spanish kids, i.e. the two full-backs, would feel right at home, under his expert guidance.

Just sayin...

Yes he's doing such a superb job in Naples  ;D Where he has a chairman who has actually given him money. Shock horror!!!!!

Bring back Pako Ayestarán!!!  ;D





















and Steve Clarke  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 01, 2014, 10:13:53 PM
I wonder who's idea it was to bring in Balotelli. Rodgers doesn't appear to know how build a team to get the best out of Balotelli whilst not losing something from other players.
There's no doubt the team was built around Suarez, but it also appeared to benefit others too, and allowed the best to be brought out of other players.

He seems to be trying to get the best out of Balotelli but so far it's not working and it is lessening the effectiveness of other players too.

Balotelli just seems totally the wrong fit for the team and the collection of players the manager has to fashion a team out of.

I'm not sure what the easy answer is to our woeful transfer market performance over the last few years, but it seems to happen irrespective of who's manager.

We're a bit like a woman who always falls for the same, but wrong type of man every time, goes through the same problems, swears this is the last time and then does the same thing again next time.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 01, 2014, 10:23:43 PM
Honestly can't wait for Saturday and the same formation and then the shock as we let in a shine-a-light, soft set piece goal and the shock as we have fork all presence up top and the shock when Hendo has a shed game trying to do four jobs at once and the shock when Mignolet looks dreadful again.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 01, 2014, 10:28:50 PM
I'd settle for a point at home to WBA at this time. Seriously, I would.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 01, 2014, 10:38:52 PM
Yes he's doing such a superb job in Naples  ;D Where he has a chairman who has actually given him money. Shock horror!!!!!

yes, Rafa has been there just over a year or so.......and won the Italian Cup in May (end of his first season). 

And has had just over 9 million to spend this summer window......and has jettisoned a whole pile of players (I assume getting the wage bill down accounts for some of those departures).

Players in:
Kalidou Koulibaly - Genk £8,000,000 30 Jun, 2014
Mariano Andujar - Catania £1,600,000 30 Jun, 2014
Jonathan de Guzman - Villarreal Free 01 Aug, 2014
David Lopez - Espanyol Signed 13 Sep, 2014

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 01, 2014, 11:03:17 PM
Rodgers needs some experienced help (sit down Kenny, I didn't mean you), but I doubt his ego will allow him to do something about it.

I just hope we still have a Merseyside Derby to look forward to next year. Martinex has probably enough experience at that end of the table for Everton to be OK.

Can anyone remember when we last won a game after 90 minutes? 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 01, 2014, 11:17:44 PM
Rodgers needs some experienced help (sit down Kenny, I didn't mean you), but I doubt his ego will allow him to do something about it.

I'd bring in Rafa, and let Rodgers stay as an offensive coach. 

 :)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 01, 2014, 11:28:46 PM
let Rodgers stay as an offensive coach. 
I've always found him to be quite offensive.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 01, 2014, 11:29:52 PM
I'd settle for a point at home to WBA at this time. Seriously, I would.
LFC under your mate Rodgers reminds me of
the red car in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv0onXhyLlE

And look, there goes Basel giving us a damn good thrashing  :P
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2014, 12:14:05 AM
I've always found him to be quite offensive.

 :D   :D   :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2014, 12:17:01 AM
LFC under your mate Rodgers reminds me of
the red car in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv0onXhyLlE

And look, there goes Basel giving us a damn good thrashing  :P

Comedy gold. I'd forgotten how much like John Cleese Peter Crouch looked when he ran.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 02, 2014, 01:33:48 AM
:D   :D   :D

I need to make my humour MORE obvious!!!!!!

ED steals my double entendre joke, and milks the laughs!

 ;D

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 02, 2014, 06:42:38 AM
looks like my evil twin, TheyPissedonMyRug, hacked Martin's account in here, and has been posting all manner of stuff.   ;D

PS Martin, I gotta agree with most of what you say.   For me it has always been the lack of balance.  The lack of balance, or ability to create it by the boss, was masked previously by having a world class forward, who always kept the opposition on the back foot.

Without Suarez, we are now on the back foot.

Dude, I'm also a firm believer in the noble art of balancing your team - just thought it would be something that would eventually emerge. Unfortunately I was wrong, it seems.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 02, 2014, 06:43:24 AM
Bring back Pako Ayestarán!!!  ;D





















and Steve Clarke  ;D

Also, play Jari!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 02, 2014, 06:51:31 AM
Comedy gold. I'd forgotten how much like John Cleese Peter Crouch looked when he ran.

Yeah, it's like Crouch has his DNA. They don't do comedy like that anymore. Arguably the best comedy show ever.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 02, 2014, 09:56:30 AM
Yeah, it's like Crouch share his DNA with Cleese. They don't do comedy like that anymore. Arguably the best comedy show ever.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
Also, play Jari!

Actually, now you mention it Martin, maybe Steve Clarke would do a better job playing in our defence than any of our current centre backs.  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2014, 01:38:27 PM
Suso setback! Brendan Rodgers' Liverpool problems continue as starlet confirms injury news

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/517889/Suso-Brendan-Rodgers-Liverpool-injury-news (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/517889/Suso-Brendan-Rodgers-Liverpool-injury-news)


So now offer him a new contract.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2014, 01:39:58 PM
Sturridge to sign a new 5 year contract. Excellent news.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2014, 01:42:54 PM
Lallana back in the England. Hopefully the fool in charge will realise he is still making his way back after injury and adhere to any training/recovery schedule he's been informed of. Hopefully the matches will allow him to build match fitness (as long as he isn't overworked and re-injured).
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2014, 02:42:17 PM
Roy Hodgson goes to WAR with Liverpool's Brendan Rodgers insisting no one has two days off

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/402878/Roy-Hodgson-Brendan-Rodgers-Liverpool-England (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/402878/Roy-Hodgson-Brendan-Rodgers-Liverpool-England)

"Two days off". Sturridge doesn't get two days off, neither does he 'not train'. He has warm down routines, and strengthening routines, which is training. He also does ball work. What he doesn't do is sprints, and exercises which require sudden twists or changes of direction at speed.

There would be plenty of work he could do developing his partnership with Rooney that didn't put his muscle health at risk. Maybe Hodgson needs to go around a few clubs and learn some 'modern' training techniques that are developed scientifically.

I wonder how the England players enjoy star jumps and leap frog?  ;D   
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 02, 2014, 03:20:51 PM
a foreign manager would have been sacked, by the England bosses, for being so poor in their job.

and the media would have made their position impossible.

So why the heck is Hodgson still England manager?   He is about the worst in my lifetime (though it is a tight race between him and the dutch-speaker steve mcclaren)

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 02, 2014, 03:25:52 PM
Roy Hodgson goes to WAR with Liverpool's Brendan Rodgers insisting no one has two days off

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/402878/Roy-Hodgson-Brendan-Rodgers-Liverpool-England (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/402878/Roy-Hodgson-Brendan-Rodgers-Liverpool-England)


Woy reckons that "The injury was unfortunate but if I am going to be under pressure to give players two days off every time they play then we won't train.  They can't have two days off."

WTF is this moron blathering on about.  What is the use of forcing a player to train, and then see him subsequently injured, and have to sit out the subsequent England game anyway?

What value is that to england, to liverpool, to the player?

Common sense, Roy.  Common sense.

Listen to the lad.  He knows his body better than you do.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 02, 2014, 05:49:13 PM
:D   :D   :D
:D

I need to make my humour MORE obvious!!!!!!

ED steals my double entendre joke, and milks the laughs!

 ;D
:P
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2014, 11:30:35 PM
He is about the worst in my lifetime (though it is a tight race between him and the dutch-speaker steve mcclaren)

pronounced Shteeve in Holland.   ;D 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2014, 11:41:03 PM
So now it's open season on Balotelli:

Mario Balotelli was the best Liverpool could get, admits Brendan Rodgers

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/02/mario-balotelli-liverpool-brendan-rodgers-luis-suarez (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/02/mario-balotelli-liverpool-brendan-rodgers-luis-suarez)

Full of excuses.


Liverpool's Brendan Rodgers running out of patience with Mario Balotelli

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/518097/Brendan-Rodgers-Liverpool-Mario-Balotelli-patience (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/518097/Brendan-Rodgers-Liverpool-Mario-Balotelli-patience)

More BS and excuses.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 02, 2014, 11:54:31 PM
Ian Herbert: Brendan Rodgers' faith in Mario Balotelli is seriously misplaced

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/ian-herbert-brendan-rodgers-faith-in-mario-balotelli-is-seriously-misplaced-9771506.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/ian-herbert-brendan-rodgers-faith-in-mario-balotelli-is-seriously-misplaced-9771506.html)

Pretty balanced piece. It's not 'having a go', just telling it as it is.

Our whole strategy has proven to be flawed. Our priority was to strengthen the defensive side of our game. Then when the inevitable happened, it was also to replace Suarez.
Suarez leaving was hardly a surprise. So where was the planning for when it did. It was definitely a case of when and not if.

Surely as we upgrade the previous starters in the first 11, the squad is automatically deepened and strengthened, as the previous first choices become cover/competition, improving on the previous cover/competition or in some cases actually becoming the cover/competition where none was present before.
You don't buy 'squad players'. They are the previous first choices that have been upgraded and young players on the 'up'.

Did Rogers fool himself into thinking that Suarez wouldn't leave just because we challenged for the league and gained CL football for this season? Did his ego get in the way of common sense?

Was his ego at work again in signing Balotelli, mistakenly thinking he could do what other more experienced managers had failed to? Wanting to prove a point again? Because Luis behaved himself in a red shirt last season, and improved his goalscoring under Rodgers' reign, did Rodgers think he would therefore automatically do the same with Mario?
What about the fact that Balotelli doesn't fit our style of play? Wasn't that even seen or considered? Or did Rodgers think he could totally 're-model' Balotelli's game?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2014, 01:03:11 AM
Surely as we upgrade the previous starters in the first 11, the squad is automatically deepened and strengthened, as the previous first choices become cover/competition, improving on the previous cover/competition or in some cases actually becoming the cover/competition where none was present before.
You don't buy 'squad players'. They are the previous first choices that have been upgraded and young players on the 'up'.

Did Rogers fool himself into thinking that Suarez wouldn't leave just because we challenged for the league and gained CL football for this season? Did his ego get in the way of common sense?

Was his ego at work again in signing Balotelli, mistakenly thinking he could do what other more experienced managers had failed to? Wanting to prove a point again? Because Luis behaved himself in a red shirt last season, and improved his goalscoring under Rodgers' reign, did Rodgers think he would therefore automatically do the same with Mario?
What about the fact that Balotelli doesn't fit our style of play? Wasn't that even seen or considered? Or did Rodgers think he could totally 're-model' Balotelli's game?

spot on points.

it's been a Spurs Summer (TM Dude Enterprises......lest Cuckoo Ed be sniffing around   ;D )

I think the Ego will pay with his job.

Balotelli is not a Liverpool type player.  He just does not to the work needed.  He has a spliff and scratches his ar.se when he doesn't have the ball.   

I had hoped for better - but then I am not a full time professional scout.  I am only seeing him play now.

the lad on the wing, bought from Benfica, does not look up to much.

And our morons, with our midfield woes obvious to even stevie wonder, are supposedly about to gve gerrard a new three year contract.

like people are gonna be asking, WTF is going on at anfield.





Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2014, 01:07:13 AM
spot on points.

it's been a Spurs Summer (TM Dude Enterprises......lest Cuckoo Ed be sniffing around   ;D )

I think the Ego will pay with his job.

Balotelli is not a Liverpool type player.  He just does not to the work needed.  He has a spliff and scratches his ar.se when he doesn't have the ball.   

I had hoped for better - but then I am not a full time professional scout.  I am only seeing him play now.

the lad on the wing, bought from Benfica, does not look up to much.

And our morons, with our midfield woes obvious to even stevie wonder, are supposedly about to gve gerrard a new three year contract.

like people are gonna be asking, WTF is going on at anfield.

This season is worse than his first one. It will be interesting if things don't pick up massively and soon, if we hear murmurings from Boston.
May could prove interesting if we finish outside the top four, as Dalglish will attest to.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2014, 01:08:23 AM
And our morons, with our midfield woes obvious to even stevie wonder, are supposedly about to gve gerrard a new three year contract.

Leaving the problem to his successor then?  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2014, 01:15:07 AM
This season is worse than his first one. It will be interesting if things don't pick up massively and soon, if we hear murmurings from Boston.
May could prove interesting if we finish outside the top four, as Dalglish will attest to.

yes, this will most likely be rodgers last at the club.

It's amazing to hear myself saying that, given the amazing season we had last season.

BUT, it appears that Suarez was the one who papered over all the cracks......and it appears that we have actually gone backwards, re our supposed efforts at upgrading the team in the summer.

Rodgers has a massive job on his hands, turning our dismal run of form around in the next number of weeks.

A mid-table Liverpool come December, may see Rodgers getting his P45.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 03, 2014, 01:28:08 AM
Leaving the problem to his successor then?  :D

well given how our two national treasures, and henree winter, did for Rafa, rodgers is maybe wise to be apprehensive dealing with Captain Marvel.

 :)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2014, 12:17:35 PM
well given how our two national treasures, and henree winter, did for Rafa, rodgers is maybe wise to be apprehensive dealing with Captain Marvel.

 :)

Brendan's birth certificate gives him far more insulation from the likes of plum gob Henry and Walrus Samuel etc, and now Gerrard isn't part of 'club England', in fact he's a 'deserter'.
I think Rodgers biggest backlash would come from certain sections of the fanbase, who either prefer to turn a blind eye, or are blinded to Gerrard's demise, or feel being anything but 'gushing' about Gerrard at all times is being 'disloyal' and 'unsupportive'.

However, it wouldn't stop any of them playing to the gallery with at least one 'opinion piece' each, but I don't think they'd dwell too long on it. His international obituary was a short one.

They've got enough of a job propping their mate 'Woy' up, especially after England scrape a narrow victory against San Marino, and an even harder fought draw against the might of Estonia. All of which will be built up as some marvelous achievement and the start of an era of international dominance by 'Hodgy'.

I don't want the 'legend' of Gerrard to be tarnished by an undignified and embarrassing end, the same reason I didn't want Dalglish back as manager. It's a bit like trying to remember your Grandparents as they were when you were young and not how they ended up an undignified mess due to the misplaced ideals of the 'hypocratic oath' etc.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2014, 01:29:30 PM
Based purely on hope, and the fact that no club's run of any sort lasts indefinitely, I'm not worried about the WBA game. If we lose, I'll hardly be shocked or angry, as my expectation levels are nil at the moment.
If we win, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

I'm more bothered at the moment about seeing signs of an improved performance, the correct team selection and formation, genuine improved defending (not the 'luck' we had against Spurs), us playing with cohesion, getting back to the pressing of opponents and seeing a fight and strong desire to win and succeed from every player that wears red in the game, than the result. That at least would give us something to build on.

The reason we're so poor this season is partly due to the fact that the defensive deficiencies that have been there since day one and were present at Swansea too, have been completely overlooked and ignored by Rodgers and the coaching team.

They spent their whole time standing admiring the wallpaper and decoration on half the room, whilst making sure their collective backs were firmly turned on that six inch wide fissure, due to heavy subsidence, running from ceiling to floor, and it was kept out of eye line at all times.

What is noticeable is how Rodgers is now mentioning individuals, pointing the finger at them, and it feels like an attempt to divert attention from the responsibility he bears as the manager. I'm now more convinced than ever that he doesn't have a clue how to set up or coach the defensive side of the game, and the beliefs he's built up unchallenged and untested over his 20 year coaching, pre-management career, are proving to be misplaced, but he either doesn't want to acknowledge this, or knows that he doesn't have the ability or understanding as to how to correct and implement the necessary changes.

That article (in the Guardian, I think it was) about how he grew up loving Brazilian football, and his affection for the tiki taka style of Barcelona and Spain (both of which appear to have served their time as the brand of football), has meant he has a utopian view of football. The crass and sour comments he made after Chelsea's smash and grab at Anfield last season displayed his idealistic views, whilst totally overlooking the real practicalities of football.

Whether he has the strength of character to admit his weaknesses and bring in some experience and knowledge to help him out, is debatable, I think.

The true greats of football management were always quick to admit (privately at least) their own flaws and weakness and have the strength of character to at least do something about it. If Rodgers doesn't want the career long tag of 'one season wonder' then he needs to do the same, and quickly.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 03, 2014, 02:13:02 PM
Based purely on hope, and the fact that no club's run of any sort lasts indefinitely, I'm not worried about the WBA game. If we lose, I'll hardly be shocked or angry, as my expectation levels are nil at the moment.
If we win, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

I'm more bothered at the moment about seeing signs of an improved performance, the correct team selection and formation, genuine improved defending (not the 'luck' we had against Spurs), us playing with cohesion, getting back to the pressing of opponents and seeing a fight and strong desire to win and succeed from every player that wears red in the game, than the result. That at least would give us something to build on.

That echoes, word for word, my sentiments. In that regard I could even accept defeat if Everything else you mention showed signs of improvement (I know there's an inherent contradiction saying that but you get me catch, right?). Or to put it differently, I'd be more pissed off by another scrappy and somewhat undeserved win, than dropping points showing signs better times may lie ahead.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2014, 02:33:23 PM
That echoes, word for word, my sentiments. In that regard I could even accept defeat if Everything else you mention showed signs of improvement (I know there's an inherent contradiction saying that but you get me catch, right?). Or to put it differently, I'd be more pissed off by another scrappy and somewhat undeserved win, than dropping points showing signs better times may lie ahead.

Whilst points are always important (obviously), the wins over Southampton and Spurs have done nothing for our season.

So far, of the main and expected rivals, only Chelsea have really started well. It's therefore vital that we start to get everything together with a view to being able to climb the table and spend the rest of the season, once up there, playing at a level that allows us to stay up there and gives us a chance of a top four finish. That's looking far less likely than at the start of the season, but it has to still be the target, and one by which the manager and players should be judged at the end of the season.

With Rodgers now seemingly admitting that the number of faces has seriously disrupted everything (something which has always held true in football), surely it makes sense to offer Suso, for example, a new contract. That gives us a further option to the squad that we didn't have last season, and if utilised once his injury has healed, will be like a new addition, but without the need to settle in in any way.

I'm also hoping he doesn't try and 'correct' things too much in January, as that's only going to bring more disruption. He needs to work with what he's got, what he chose to bring in, and get them functioning like a unit once more. Stability of squad and team is a vital ingredient, and despite the squad needing strengthening, trying to do it all in one window has undermined the whole thing rather than improving the situation.

It would have been better to have had a slightly bigger squad than last season, though still below the ideal numbers, that actually allowed functioning first 11s to be selected from it, than the mishmash we have now, though numbers are more favourable.   
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 03, 2014, 10:36:35 PM
West Brom have earned consecutive league victories for the first time since September last year.
They've kept back-to-back Premier League clean sheets for the first time since April 2012, when they kept three in a row.
Their 4-0 victory over Burnley was their biggest since 2012.
Saido Berahino is the leading English scorer in the Premier League this season with four goals.

Compared to us they sound like the defending PL and CL Champions.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 04, 2014, 09:22:05 AM
 :D


last season, we would be looking foward to it being a case of how many we would whip WBA by.......3 or 4 goals.

today, a scrappy 2-1 would suffice, given our limited expectations right now.

my fear would be a high scoring draw - 2-2 or a 3-3.....or getting beaten......with a rampant WBA running midfield and taking our defence apart at will.

But being a positive person -   :P   -  I will go for a 2-1 win for the reds. 

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 04, 2014, 11:08:15 AM
But being a positive person -   :P   -  I will go for a 2-1 win for the reds.

I share your positivity. 2-1 to us. them.  Someone, somewhere will win 2-1 today.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 04, 2014, 11:37:56 AM
:D


last season, we would be looking foward to it being a case of how many we would whip WBA by.......3 or 4 goals.

today, a scrappy 2-1 would suffice, given our limited expectations right now.

my fear would be a high scoring draw - 2-2 or a 3-3.....or getting beaten......with a rampant WBA running midfield and taking our defence apart at will.

But being a positive person -   :P   -  I will go for a 2-1 win for the reds.

I'd settle for a goal, whether it hits the post, then hits their keeper on the side of the head, before going in off the post  (again). A goal. Just one of them, and no need to wash our bedding either.
They can have the lion's share of possession, chances etc.

We have a run of what should be regarded as 'more straightforward' games. Instead, they are looking more like a series of banana skins.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 04, 2014, 01:17:37 PM
I'd settle for a goal, whether it hits the post, then hits their keeper on the side of the head, before going in off the post  (again). A goal. Just one of them, and no need to wash our bedding either.
They can have the lion's share of possession, chances etc.

We have a run of what should be regarded as 'more straightforward' games. Instead, they are looking more like a series of banana skins.

Sturridge's injury could not have come at a worse time.

after hammering dortmund in pre-season, and getting a great win at spurs, we needed to build a momentum of post-suarez confidence up

instead, his injury has meant all our confidence has gone.....and like you say, these run of games are banana skins.

but i do expect a hard fought scrappy victory today, by a goal.

rodgers has to arrest thus bad run - if he fails, he will be on his bike.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 04, 2014, 05:27:39 PM
Hmm. mixed feelings. We were terrible for much of first half with Sterling, Lambert and Coutinho being an utter and complete waste in that order. Lallana the only light and deservedly got a brilliant goal just before half-time.

Second half better and I felt we were unlucky to concede. As it turned out it was the only chance worthy of mentioning they managed to create. We were better after the goal and especially so after Balotelli came on. I feel sorry for Lambert as this is sooo much above his level.

I am still critical of Rodgers for how he's treated Sakho and Balotelli. I think it is criminal to play Sterling for Another 90 minutes when it's obvious the fella's totally out of confidence. He's so poor I feel sorry for him.

Henderson should recieve applause for setting up Lallana and slotting hom the match winner. Besides that I didn't take much notice of him. Nor did I of Gerrard.

Another fornicating break coming up. It's good going into it with a win but I'd rather we've played another game with a chance to win it and a few more points giving us a better position before the break. But it is what it is.

Unfortunately the Mancs will absolutely trash Everton tomorrow and Chelsea. Also, Chelsea will rip Arsenal to pieces once more. Hopefully Villa can show some of the attitude they displayed at Anfield a few weeks back and get something against City.

QPR away up next. No excuses really.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 04, 2014, 06:59:59 PM
disjointed.

we had spells - first 15 mins we were on top.......but we did not have a suarez to put chances away.

then wba had their spell.

too much too and fro.......we need more balance.   We need to have some structure to our play.  It just seems so random.  We attack, then they attack.  It's like jumpers for goal posts.  Like a match you;d see on any primary school yard.   There seems no sense to it all. 

And the team knows too well, that they are in bad shape.   Seems little point in analysing individual performances, when the side is so unbalanced.

Rodgers looks out of touch.  The emperor has no clothes.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 06, 2014, 12:14:09 AM
Hmm. mixed feelings. We were terrible for much of first half with Sterling, Lambert and Coutinho being an utter and complete waste in that order. Lallana the only light and deservedly got a brilliant goal just before half-time.

Coutinho is right out of form. Sterling needs a rest. Lambert needs a run of games. It's unrealistic to expect him to come straight in and connect with his team mates when  he's had precious little game time with them.

Lallana is starting to show what a big miss he was at the start of the season. I worry even at this early stage Markovic may be a bad buy.

I'm still not convinced that Rodgers is convinced by some of Summer signings and it's not taken him long to turn on Balotelli. He knew what he was getting before he even signed him.

How can Balotelli be the only striker available in our price range?  Suarez leaves, surely we've a £75M budget for (a) striker(s).

Adding that comment in with the one Rodgers made about the signings being long term planned ones, did they know along Suarez was leaving this Summer and instead of that being priority no 1, they decided to deepen the squad by adding numbers (then see Rodgers comments about the problems that brings), even if it means weakening the first 11?

Utter chaos. The left hand is waving whilst the right one is trying to give a round of applause.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 06, 2014, 07:51:08 PM
What striker is out there then that would A) come here and B) offer us similarities of Suarez?

Higuain offers not much more than Balotelli.

Benzema? lol Madrid sold Higgers in the first place to keep Benzema. Plus he'd never leave Madrid for us.

Falcao? On £300,000 p/w no thanks.

Cavani? Again doesn't offer the same qualities as Suarez. Plus he's at PSG who forked out for him and tbh I'd rather have Balotelli over him.

Aguero? Yeah right!

Sanchez? Not a striker per se but he chose Arsenal over us.

Jovetic? City sold Negredo to keep him.

Negredo? Again offers same as Balotelli.

Lewandowski? Ran down his contract on purpose to join Bayern

Neymar? Barca would rather sell Messi than Neymar - yes I am serious.

At that top level who is there that we could have signed this summer? I want names please.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 06, 2014, 10:12:43 PM
There are strikers out there who share similar traits to Suarez albeit at a much lower level and I think we'd do well to buy one of them, but if/when we do then we have to realise, just like Suarez, whoever we buy will take 2-3 years to reach the top level.

I recently said that Balotelli would be a perfect complement striker rather than the direct Suarez replacement as we have lost that movement and work rate from Suarez. So we needed a striker who has movement and potential to have exceptional movement. Balotelli added to that would have been great.

But as a direct replacement he'll struggle and that's the way it is really.

So really Tier 1 strikers are off limits to us thus we have to look at Tier 2 and more specifically those within Tier 2 who can rise to Tier 1. I'm thinking along the lines of Insigne, Destro, Lacazette, Kokorin - well I've said these names many times!!

In regards to Lambert I think we're being to harsh on the guy. Just last season for the saints he was exceptional. He can't lose that in just one year. Lambert actually possess more movement than Balotelli - well he certainly showed that at Southampton.

QPR and Burnley up next then the Chavs.We'll probably get beat at QPR and beat Chelsea    :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 06, 2014, 10:24:46 PM
At that top level who is there that we could have signed this summer? I want names please.
Jesus, wasn't there some hullabaloo about the scouting set-up ages
ago - how fab and different it was etc.. & his unwavering faith in youth
another time.

Your question only makes sense if BR is one of us...

Instead he's the manager of LFC.

Don't give me this unsolvable problems crap. The managers job is to
find solutions and bear ultimate responsibility.

A more pertinent question would be, how many players has your man
signed who will seriously increase their value and be sought after by the
top teams in Europe? That's the question.

In the meantime, he comes out whinging to the media last week that he
spent £16 million on a player he didn't want. Jesus - the ex-Swansea manager.
& why the heck did he sign Fabio Borini? Then the injury to Sturridge
is somehow bad luck.

He signed £27 million worth of striking talent and yet faces a crisis when the other
striker isn't fit?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 06, 2014, 11:22:34 PM
At that top level who is there that we could have signed this summer? I want names please.

Name someone on here who is paid to know that, who's job it is to unearth (a) suitable way(s) to replace the goals and creation. The work rate should be there but we don't expect it to be manic.

I love it when ordinary fans expect other ordinary fans to have a more than encyclopaedic knowledge of players the world over, because that's the transfer pool we deal in.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 06, 2014, 11:32:36 PM
In regards to Lambert I think we're being to harsh on the guy.

Who's the 'we', not having a go, just confused by who the 'we' is.  Lambert, like most strikers, needs pitch time. 10 mins here and there isn't enough. I thought it look like he'd lost weight looking at him in the WBA game.

Balotelli is no type of lone striker. No striker can feed on less than scraps. As Balotelli's game is to drop deep, and  he's certainly not a 6 yard box player, why hasn't he had a run with Lambert or even Borini as a partner.
Playing as the main striker could help Borini flourish as much as he is able.
Lambert would take the attention away for Balotelli, plus he occupies centre halves, giving Balotelli, or anyone else who gets in the box, more space.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2014, 02:52:37 PM
What striker is out there then that would A) come here and B) offer us similarities of Suarez?

Higuain offers not much more than Balotelli.

Benzema? lol Madrid sold Higgers in the first place to keep Benzema. Plus he'd never leave Madrid for us.

Falcao? On £300,000 p/w no thanks.

Cavani? Again doesn't offer the same qualities as Suarez. Plus he's at PSG who forked out for him and tbh I'd rather have Balotelli over him.

Aguero? Yeah right!

Sanchez? Not a striker per se but he chose Arsenal over us.

Jovetic? City sold Negredo to keep him.

Negredo? Again offers same as Balotelli.

Lewandowski? Ran down his contract on purpose to join Bayern

Neymar? Barca would rather sell Messi than Neymar - yes I am serious.

At that top level who is there that we could have signed this summer? I want names please.

How many of those are 'typical strikers' and how many are 'attackers' in a more general sense.

As Suarez wasn't a traditional striker, it gave us more scope. Also, as has been said numerous times, it's the 'effect' of Suarez we'd be trying to replace.
If you lose 31 goals (and for the sake of this let's pretend he would have repeated last season's feat though that's a debatable issue in itself), there's additional options to simply bringing in Mr X to replace Luis.

So the field and options aren't limited to just strikers. It's not even limited to just personnel. How about understanding reducing the need for as many goals? Change things so we don't need to score 3s and 4s just to stand a chance of getting 3 points, and that overlaps with the obvious deficiency in our play from last season, with or without Suarez, Sturridge or any other individual player.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 07, 2014, 08:14:02 PM
How many of those are 'typical strikers' and how many are 'attackers' in a more general sense.
You're wasting your time Tes.

The Liverpool way is, lose Keegan, sign Dalglish.

How or why these things happen is not the concern of the fan,
because we have faith in the gaffer, who runs the football side
of things.

Now we come to Rodge, the muppet currently in charge, pines after
a player who no longer plays for us and signs a player to replace him
who he doesn't want.

You see for all I know, BR, could be the greatest manager in the world,
I'm sure 224 genuinely believes this. The point is he is not the Liverpool
manager. We are a vehicle for him, there is always his post-LFC career
to think about.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 07, 2014, 09:37:57 PM
You're wasting your time Tes.

The Liverpool way is, lose Keegan, sign Dalglish.

How or why these things happen is not the concern of the fan,
because we have faith in the gaffer, who runs the football side
of things.

Now we come to Rodge, the muppet currently in charge, pines after
a player who no longer plays for us and signs a player to replace him
who he doesn't want.

You see for all I know, BR, could be the greatest manager in the world,
I'm sure 224 genuinely believes this. The point is he is not the Liverpool
manager. We are a vehicle for him, there is always his post-LFC career
to think about.

Bu..bu..but, we're stronger without Suarez:

Steven Gerrard believes Liverpool are stronger without Luis Suarez

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11675/9443936/premier-league-gerrard-believes-liverpool-are-stronger-despite-suarez-sale (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11675/9443936/premier-league-gerrard-believes-liverpool-are-stronger-despite-suarez-sale)


Liverpool stronger after Suarez exit, insists Rodgers

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/liverpool-stronger-after-suarez-exit-insists-rodgers-30533578.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/liverpool-stronger-after-suarez-exit-insists-rodgers-30533578.html)


Liverpool will survive without Suarez says Rodgers

"London (AFP) - Brendan Rodgers insists Liverpool will be even stronger next season despite the departure of star striker Luis Suarez."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/liverpool-survive-without-suarez-says-rodgers-184853095--sow.html (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/liverpool-survive-without-suarez-says-rodgers-184853095--sow.html)


Ed, it's just us, we're obviously missing something.  ;D

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 08, 2014, 03:43:31 AM
Ed, it's just us, we're obviously missing something.  ;D
Suarez?  :D :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 08, 2014, 09:28:10 AM
What striker is out there then that would A) come here and B) offer us similarities of Suarez?

Higuain offers not much more than Balotelli.

Benzema? lol Madrid sold Higgers in the first place to keep Benzema. Plus he'd never leave Madrid for us.

Falcao? On £300,000 p/w no thanks.

Cavani? Again doesn't offer the same qualities as Suarez. Plus he's at PSG who forked out for him and tbh I'd rather have Balotelli over him.

Aguero? Yeah right!

Sanchez? Not a striker per se but he chose Arsenal over us.

Jovetic? City sold Negredo to keep him.

Negredo? Again offers same as Balotelli.

Lewandowski? Ran down his contract on purpose to join Bayern

Neymar? Barca would rather sell Messi than Neymar - yes I am serious.

At that top level who is there that we could have signed this summer? I want names please.

Yeapp, I've been contemplating the same chain of thoughts. Plus, I don't think Balotelli is half as bad as people make him out to be. The difference in class between him and Lambert on Saturday couldn't be more apparent. Also, why is no one mentioning by one fornicating word the fact Sterling missed out on a one on one with their keeper. I struggle to remember such a wasteful player in front of goal as Sterling. Easier then to run with the dogs and p**s on Balotelli. And by saying that I don't necessarily point fingers at people in this place.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 08, 2014, 09:32:47 AM
Suarez?  :D :D

Why the need to be so scornful? When I read the last pages through I don't see anything on Edward's part that merits this mocking. No need to indulge in namecalling vis a vis our manager either. Criticism is fine, bullying remarks is not. At least not in my book.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 08, 2014, 12:39:29 PM
Why the need to be so scornful?
Don't you worry Marx, it hasn't been forgotten how you
spent months swaggering around here claiming BR was
the Messiah. Surprised you have the nerve to show your
face, tbh.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 08, 2014, 02:57:09 PM
Don't you worry Marx, it hasn't been forgotten how you
spent months swaggering around here claiming BR was
the Messiah. Surprised you have the nerve to show your
face, tbh.

You don't get it, do you? Admit, and it'll make you feel better.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 09, 2014, 12:34:38 AM
Easier then to run with the dogs and p**s on Balotelli. And by saying that I don't necessarily point fingers at people in this place.

He is a very easy target unfortunately. He simply, as yet, hasn't fitted in, but then his strengths haven't been played to, and the team hasn't been built to get the best out of him, like it was for Luis.

Sterling is still very young, and I think the lack of Sturridge, Coutinho's poor form, and Balotelli's different style, have made things difficult of late. His best position isn't out wide, and whilst yes he misses chances, so do far older, far more experienced players.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 09, 2014, 12:36:25 AM
Criticism is fine, bullying remarks is not.

Who's bullying who, Martin?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 09, 2014, 10:56:38 AM
He is a very easy target unfortunately. He simply, as yet, hasn't fitted in, but then his strengths haven't been played to, and the team hasn't been built to get the best out of him, like it was for Luis.

Sterling is still very young, and I think the lack of Sturridge, Coutinho's poor form, and Balotelli's different style, have made things difficult of late. His best position isn't out wide, and whilst yes he misses chances, so do far older, far more experienced players.

You sum it up for me brilliantly there, Tes. Put that way I realise my recent criticism of Sterling might've been a tad unfair. But I maintain Rodger's and journos in general were very wrong to single Balotelli out as one of the main reasons we lost against Basel when in fact he created/helped create two brilliant chances that normally should've resulted in goal.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 09, 2014, 01:39:37 PM
But I maintain Rodger's and journos in general were very wrong to single Balotelli out as one of the main reasons we lost against Basel when in fact he created/helped create two brilliant chances that normally should've resulted in goal.

I find it hard to believe that Rodgers has come out in the media and criticised Balotelli. I don't like managers singling out players publicly.

Rodgers has been singling out players this season, but then not giving an honest team appraisal in aftermatch interviews. Two of my favourite managers for being honest about the team's performance are Mark Hughes and Fatty Bruce, as they will assess the team's performance as 'unacceptable' or 'not good enough', without ever highlighting individuals.

I don't see a problem with a manager publicly declaring his dissatisfaction with the 'team performance' and I don't think it hurts morale for the manager to confirm something the fans are thinking anyway, because players with the right mentality will understand the need to show a positive reaction and improvement in the next game, after the manager lays down that marker.

Individuals and individual team areas being publicly condemned is wrong, especially in our particular case, openly criticising the defence, when we've no record of being strong defensively under Rodgers' entire reign anyway.

The only time I've no problem wit a manager being less than positive about a player is if, for example, they get sent off for violent conduct or something similar, other than that, keep the criticism of individuals behind closed doors and to their face.

As a team we're not creating nearly as many good chances, so Balotelli's no different, in that if we're not creating chances for him, how can his goal scoring record be questioned. It's a team game, collective responsibility. He won't make something out of a lost cause as he's not got the mobility to go chasing lost causes over by the corner flag. He can't be blamed for not being the kind of attacker he simply isn't. He's far stronger in the air than Suarez, but as we didn't put Suarez in a position of having to compete for the ball aerially, numerous times a game, he was never shown up that way.

Rodgers knew the type of striker/attacker he was getting. He chose to try to integrate a lot of new players in one season. He chose to bring Balotelli into a team that would be unsettled and fragmented by 'too many' changes in one go. So when Balotelli is struggling to fit into a team seamlessly, that doesn't suit his strengths, that is trying to bed in a lot of new players and things don't work instantly and smoothly from the off, then Rodgers shouldn't be surprised and accept that the decisions that have been made this Summer have made him the architect of his own problems.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 09, 2014, 01:41:10 PM
Now Lovren's been injured on damned international duty:

Liverpool WORRY as Dejan Lovren withdraws from international duty through injury

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/520585/Liverpool-Dejan-Lovren-injury (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/520585/Liverpool-Dejan-Lovren-injury)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 10, 2014, 07:11:13 AM
I find it hard to believe that Rodgers has come out in the media and criticised Balotelli. I don't like managers singling out players publicly.

Rodgers has been singling out players this season, but then not giving an honest team appraisal in aftermatch interviews. Two of my favourite managers for being honest about the team's performance are Mark Hughes and Fatty Bruce, as they will assess the team's performance as 'unacceptable' or 'not good enough', without ever highlighting individuals.

I don't see a problem with a manager publicly declaring his dissatisfaction with the 'team performance' and I don't think it hurts morale for the manager to confirm something the fans are thinking anyway, because players with the right mentality will understand the need to show a positive reaction and improvement in the next game, after the manager lays down that marker.

Individuals and individual team areas being publicly condemned is wrong, especially in our particular case, openly criticising the defence, when we've no record of being strong defensively under Rodgers' entire reign anyway.

The only time I've no problem wit a manager being less than positive about a player is if, for example, they get sent off for violent conduct or something similar, other than that, keep the criticism of individuals behind closed doors and to their face.

As a team we're not creating nearly as many good chances, so Balotelli's no different, in that if we're not creating chances for him, how can his goal scoring record be questioned. It's a team game, collective responsibility. He won't make something out of a lost cause as he's not got the mobility to go chasing lost causes over by the corner flag. He can't be blamed for not being the kind of attacker he simply isn't. He's far stronger in the air than Suarez, but as we didn't put Suarez in a position of having to compete for the ball aerially, numerous times a game, he was never shown up that way.

Rodgers knew the type of striker/attacker he was getting. He chose to try to integrate a lot of new players in one season. He chose to bring Balotelli into a team that would be unsettled and fragmented by 'too many' changes in one go. So when Balotelli is struggling to fit into a team seamlessly, that doesn't suit his strengths, that is trying to bed in a lot of new players and things don't work instantly and smoothly from the off, then Rodgers shouldn't be surprised and accept that the decisions that have been made this Summer have made him the architect of his own problems.

Amen to that. Brilliantly put. Alarm bells are ringing out loudly over his different treatment of players which, as you say, equals his need to blame individuals rather than the team, let alone himself. Best of them all in this aspect of management, at least in the modern era, was, as much as I hate to admit it, Fergie.

As I said, it worries the hell out of me Rodgers treat players so differently. Balotelli, Sakho and Suso never gets a fair chance to prove their worth, whereas Sterling, Henderson and Sturridge will have the entire team geared towards strenghtening their confidence. For all the goals Sturridge have scored I rate him behind Torres, Owen and Fowler. I am not convinced he will return as the saviour of our season. Henderson has improved but just like Lucas he's only good when the team plays well with the occasional exception. I don't understand why playing a low on confidence Sterling's gonna help him. At this time I even think Assaidi would do a better job.

I really got a feeling the dressing room ain't that tight Rodgers say it is and it is all his own fault.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on October 10, 2014, 05:13:29 PM
Emre Can might be in contention for the QPR game...i'd heard he was out for 6 weeks but with Sturridge coming back as well, we could be seriously reinforced for the game...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/watch-liverpool-fc-reporter-james-7915696
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 10, 2014, 06:41:22 PM
Emre Can might be in contention for the QPR game...i'd heard he was out for 6 weeks but with Sturridge coming back as well, we could be seriously reinforced for the game...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/watch-liverpool-fc-reporter-james-7915696

Only on paper I'm afraid, in reality we're looking at the Newcastle game to see them hitting some sort of form at the earliest. I so hope Allen's back soon. Our best player by some margin until he got injured.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 11, 2014, 12:01:49 AM
I think what's most worrying is that whilst we seem to have and have had numerous players out with injury, only really Sturridge and Allen are first 11 starters. Rodgers seems to prefer Skrtel/Lovren as his centre half pairing.

Can is the one I'm most looking forward to seeing, and hope he can get a decent injury free run of games and let's see what he can do.

It's hard to know whether he's got the experience and just how strong he is defensively in order to replace Gerrard as the deepest lying midfielder, so Gerrard can be used more sparingly and in a more selective way, playing off Sturridge, or coming on as a sub, and give Balotelli and Sturridge a chance for their partnership to work, for example.
He could play at the tip of the diamond giving Sterling a rest, but both Sturridge and Balotelli would have to do more pressing to save Gerrard's energy for when we do have the ball.

Also when Allen's fit it will be intersting to see how Rodgers utilises him and Lallana.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 11, 2014, 07:40:09 PM
Can we ever regain the early confidence - that we had against dortmund and spurs.

Would have been fascinating to see, if Sturridge had not got injured, if we could have kept it going.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 11, 2014, 07:50:57 PM
It has all the makings of a long hard season (in every way). Looking forward to next season already (for no other reason than it's not this season).  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 11, 2014, 09:56:33 PM
Lazar Markovic adds to Liverpool's woes as he picks up suspected muscle injury in Serbia's draw with Armenia

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2789445/lazar-markovic-adds-liverpool-s-injury-woes-picks-injury-serbia-s-draw-armenia.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2789445/lazar-markovic-adds-liverpool-s-injury-woes-picks-injury-serbia-s-draw-armenia.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)

We'll be needing to extend the physios' facilities at this rate to fit all the walking (and non-walking) wounded in.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 11, 2014, 10:54:49 PM
 :D


Liverpool should play their season around England's matches.  Brendan should call Roy, every so often, and see when the England lads are available to play for Liverpool.

But seriously - way way way too many international games these days.

I could not belief it this morning when I saw Rep of Ireland's qualifying game - against feckin Gibraltar!!!!!!!!!

Gilbraltar!!!!!  We're talking a postman, part time fireman, solicitor and a life guard.

Something needs to be done. 

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 12, 2014, 11:37:01 AM
:D


Liverpool should play their season around England's matches.  Brendan should call Roy, every so often, and see when the England lads are available to play for Liverpool.

But seriously - way way way too many international games these days.

I could not belief it this morning when I saw Rep of Ireland's qualifying game - against feckin Gibraltar!!!!!!!!!

Gilbraltar!!!!!  We're talking a postman, part time fireman, solicitor and a life guard.

Something needs to be done.

I had visions of press gangs going round finding 11 males (it's Gibralter, so were desperate) that were young enough in order to form a team and a few holiday makers going missing each time Gibralter has a game in order to make up their bench, if not their starting 11. It'll be a new tourist attraction for men who play amateur league football at weekends.

"Come to Gibralter, see all the sights, and get to share the same pitch as the reigning World Champions, as you represent the land of your temporary home. So go on, be a proud Gibraltan for a day, and even the bird life will appreciate it by not cr@pping on you, your friends or your picnics for the whole duration of your stay".

The Euros has become bloated. What's wrong with running a subsidiary competition for all these 'smaller' teams/nations, with playoffs, etc and a two legged final (like the UEFA Cup used to be), with the winners going in to next time's 'senior' tournament and the worse non-qualifier from this time's qualifying group stage, drops into the subsidiary competition in 4 years time.
Then we could go back to having groups of four like it used to be. 6 qualifying games over 18 months.

As there is four years between the beginning of each tournament's qualifying stage, it would give smaller teams in the subsidiary competition 4 years to develop, the 'drop-out' team from the main competition would have 4 years to re-build and try to 'escape' first time.
Also, the weaker nations aren't going to be embarrassed as they would be playing teams of a more equal quality level, which would help much more with their development than being the 'whipping boys' in every game, where the only aim is to try and keep the score down as much as possible. That in itself is so negative and doesn't allow for any sort of progression and technical development.
The groups could also be arranged more geographically so that it reduced traveling costs for the FAs and more money to go into technical development.

Fans of clubs have a right not to have their team missing players that were injured on substandard pitches, or by shocking 'amateur' tackles, or by misuse from an international manager who only cares about squeezing two games from 'his' week as their manager, and sends them back injured afterwards as a result.
It should be mandatory that FAs have to pay the salaries and all associated costs for an injured player until they are truly fit enough to play again. That in itself would make sure that through pressure from their employing FA, managers would be more careful with the players under their charge.

Fans have to find such a ridiculous proportion of their income each time they attend a game now that they have the right to see a team at full strength, not decimated by injuries gained in international matches, for countries that most club fans have no affiliation to in any way. As the game is now so global that scenario is massively more in play at most clubs than it was in the 70s and 80s, and even the 90s. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 12, 2014, 03:53:15 PM
Has Woy got a bit of a guilty conscience?


England v Estonia: Raheem Sterling rested for Estonia qualifier

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9514514  (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9514514)


Let's hope Lallana and Hendo come through unscathed.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 13, 2014, 01:36:04 PM
Has Woy got a bit of a guilty conscience?

No!!! He's hung Raheem out to dry publicly, just to cover his own sad @ss.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 14, 2014, 01:38:47 PM
I had visions of press gangs going round finding 11 males (it's Gibralter, so were desperate) that were young enough in order to form a team and a few holiday makers going missing each time Gibralter has a game in order to make up their bench, if not their starting 11. It'll be a new tourist attraction for men who play amateur league football at weekends.

"Come to Gibralter, see all the sights, and get to share the same pitch as the reigning World Champions, as you represent the land of your temporary home. So go on, be a proud Gibraltan for a day, and even the bird life will appreciate it by not cr@pping on you, your friends or your picnics for the whole duration of your stay".

The Euros has become bloated. What's wrong with running a subsidiary competition for all these 'smaller' teams/nations, with playoffs, etc and a two legged final (like the UEFA Cup used to be), with the winners going in to next time's 'senior' tournament and the worse non-qualifier from this time's qualifying group stage, drops into the subsidiary competition in 4 years time.

Then we could go back to having groups of four like it used to be. 6 qualifying games over 18 months.

 :D

excatly.

these tiny islands and nations, need to be in a preliminary group/s.

but of course it is all about money - and the more games (regardless of who the opposition is) means more money.

these two nights of games - I merely looked at the end scores, to see if there was any shock result.....and then I had a look at the Iceland v Holland goals.

Other than the rare shock, I have zero interest in the games.

And I even wonder what is the point of watching england - they struggle past 10 man Estonia.......with absolutely no chance of ever going anywhere, with Woy in charge.




Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 15, 2014, 01:33:48 PM
I'm the same as you Dude. My only interest in qualifiers, either World Cup or Euros, is to check on how many of our players have been injured and who's thankfully come through unscathed. Everything else is irrelevant until the finals.

Money is going to kill football. The wages and ticket prices in this country are beyond ridiculous and quality foreign players are playing in other leagues for a third of what they would be paid by a PL club, meanwhile ticket prices are pretty much the highest in Europe and go up without fail despite huge increases in TV revenue.

TV money can't keep increasing with each new contract. That bubble will soon burst and clubs that have signed players on huge wages, on contracts beyond the current TV deal could be in trouble.

As the matches are now being split between BT and Sky, it will water down the amount each can bring in as the pool of viewers is being split between two providers. If they put up the cost of their packages by too much in order to bid ever increasing amounts for football, subscribers who don't have sports packages will eventually cancel as they won't want to be subsidising football coverage.

I can't wait for it to happen, and unlike with the damned dirty banks, there won't be anyone stepping in to prop up the ponzi scheme any longer.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 15, 2014, 02:10:26 PM
Raymond Verheijen has labelled Roy Hodgson a "dinosaur" for his part in the debate regarding the Liverpool star's fatigue ahead of England's clash with Estonia

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/7134/euro-2016-qualifying/2014/10/15/5187157/- (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/7134/euro-2016-qualifying/2014/10/15/5187157/-)


An excellent piece on the scientific approach and understanding of recovery. It's enlightenment is dazzling at the side of the murky blackness of Woy's approach.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 17, 2014, 10:50:20 PM
Sturridge out for a further month.

Where's the head against a brick wall smiley when we need one!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 17, 2014, 11:48:29 PM
Sturridge out for a further month.

Where's the head against a brick wall smiley when we need one!

U.n.b.e.l.i.e.v.a.b.l.e.

We must have used up this season's luck last season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on October 18, 2014, 09:18:13 AM
FFS....with Sturridge out then we'll have to play allen in midfield with henderson and test out gerrard behind ballotelli so we can perform something like a unit for the Real Madrid game...we're going to be hammered if we don't try something new...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 18, 2014, 04:03:33 PM
FFS....with Sturridge out then we'll have to play allen in midfield with henderson and test out gerrard behind ballotelli so we can perform something like a unit for the Real Madrid game...we're going to be hammered if we don't try something new...

I would play Gerrard off Balotelli and use Lucas (highly divisible , I know) as the defensive shield. Can and or Allen and Hendo, Sterling as the remaining pieces of the diamond. I know it means a lack of 'hard pressing' from the front (Balotelli and Gerrard), but our Summer transfer jigsaw has left us missing too many pieces for anything else.

How much have we spent over the last two Summers, no actually three? Our buying and selling is a joke, seemingly whoever does it.
We've spent more than enough since our last title win to win the title, but squad numbers and quantity always gets put before quality and continuity, whoever has been making the decisions. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 18, 2014, 04:34:08 PM
Ahem.

But Guardiola told Perarnau:

"I loathe all that passing for the sake of it,
all that tiki-taka. It's so much rubbish and has no purpose.
You have to pass the ball with a clear intention, with the
aim of making it into the opposition's goal.

It's not about passing for the sake of it."


Our manager is such an utter numpty by comparison.

The great Liverpool managers (and Cloughie) went to
Europe to take on the Guardiola equivalents.

We seem to do pastiche these days of second-hand ideas
that are outdated or misunderstood.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 18, 2014, 05:05:12 PM
Oh yeah we played a lot of tika-taka last season and this season haven't we......

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 18, 2014, 10:29:43 PM
Oh yeah we played a lot of tika-taka last season and this season haven't we......

We haven't played a lot of anything this season, other than poorly.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 18, 2014, 11:21:42 PM
Oh yeah we played a lot of tika-taka last season and this season haven't we......
Last season was all about Suarez.

That fool you see as a worthy manager of LFC
has never won a trophy in his life & used
spout on and on about something called
"Death by Football", whatever that means?

Strikes me that he said a lot of things when he first
arrived but doesn't really have any convictions with
maybe the exception of one day managing England,
which is obviously completely unacceptable for a
manager of LFC.

Perhaps, you should brush up on the style of management
that made us a great club to be feared throughout Europe.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/18/liverpool-real-madrid-champions-league-laurie-cunningham

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on October 19, 2014, 02:20:51 PM
Shocking first half at Loftus Rd for LFC.  This team if that's what you can call them are soooooo poor that QPR should have won and tied this game up already! 

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 19, 2014, 02:21:31 PM
So so poor today. Skrtel and Lovren are both awful.

We are getting out battled. Balotelli's decision making as been very poor.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 02:29:50 PM
woeful first half.

the premiership's bottom-placed side have played us off the park.

QPR should be two up - they missed a couple of sitters.....indeed, they should have a penalty with that second chance, and we might well have had the lad who handed the ball sent off (Johnson).

They are beating us to most first balls, and every second ball.

Balotelli is not a Liverpool player.  He plays for himself.  He is dead lazy.  And he won't fukin pass the ball to others who are better placed (that is the hallmark of the way Liverpool have always played). 

There is no midfield. 

There is no balance at all.

I want to see Rodgers gone by Christmas.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on October 19, 2014, 02:45:37 PM
Spot on Dude!

Not even bothering watching the second half.....found a new hobby for the weekends.  Watching paint dry  :P
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 03:02:20 PM
Spot on Dude!

Not even bothering watching the second half.....found a new hobby for the weekends.  Watching paint dry  :P

 :D

same here.

I walked down to the pool, fed the cats, and came back there now.

To find, that cometh the hour, cometh the man....step forward Richard Dunne. 

Rangers complain, turn off their attention, and we score.

Rogers leaps around like he a demented steroid loving nutter, who has won gold at the Olympics.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 04:09:21 PM
bring on the fecking clowns, the circus is in town.

a drunk man in an earthquake, has more bloddy balance than a rodgers team.

against the most dire team in the division, we looked atrocious.

Why so many needless touches - pass the ball at speed.  When you play technically inferior teams, you first of all COMPETE for the right to the ball, when you win it, you move the ball at speed.   But we just did not compete, farless move the ball at speed. 

Sell Balotelli in January, if some mug will take him.

Bring in Kop, Ancellotti, Benitez, whoever - but someone with a fecken brain, that knows how football is played at the top level.

Jerseys for goal-posts, and primary school tactics, are nowhere near enough at this level.

And I apologise to Kevin Keegan, for endlessly labelling Rodgers as Keeganesque in his tactics.  Keegan at least could organise an offence.    Rodgers, without Suarez, is like Samson without hair.......utterly naked, and shown for the bogus guru that he is.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on October 19, 2014, 04:20:41 PM
Lol...i walked out of the pub at 2-2...unbelievable that we actually won it...
defensively we were as pathetic as usual...quality decision to get rid of agger...
Our midfield was all over the place as well, and Balotelli while being greedy also was stranded like robinson crusoe....
If we defend like that against real we'll be crucified...
Bloody awful...
how the f*** are we fifth?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 19, 2014, 04:28:35 PM
The solution to our striking woes:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0URS2DCcAEFRJ4.png:large)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 04:31:33 PM
Lol...i walked out of the pub at 2-2...unbelievable that we actually won it...
defensively we were as pathetic as usual...quality decision to get rid of agger...
Our midfield was all over the place as well, and Balotelli while being greedy also was stranded like robinson crusoe....
If we defend like that against real we'll be crucified...
Bloody awful...
how the f*** are we fifth?

i was wondering the same thing, Bart.  Imagine, there are 15 teams in the premiership WORSE than we are.

Yes, i can only imagine your thoughts prior to walking out of the pub......endless goals at either end for the last 5 minutes.

I left the tv after 45 minutes.  I had seen enough.

Yes, I have said the same too, two weeks ago, re Real Madrid.  Madrid will utterly crucify us, if we play like this.

The way I see it, these two games (home and away) against real, will mean the end of our CL campaign for this season.  At this moment, I imagine Rodgers is terrified of getting hammered by them.

if we had lost today, and been hammered home and away by Real, I fail to see how Rodgers would have kept his job.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 19, 2014, 04:31:58 PM
"Football Death by Transfer Committee"
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 04:33:06 PM
The solution to our striking woes:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0URS2DCcAEFRJ4.png:large)


LOL

Bring back Heskey.  At least he caused the opposition problems.

The only problem that Balotteli causes is to the ball boys.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 19, 2014, 04:37:14 PM
Rodgers, without Suarez, is like Samson without hair.......utterly naked, and shown for the bogus guru that he is.
Originally, as I understand it, what we were supposed
to be getting was a manager who could work effectively
on a shoe string.

Someone who could develop quality youngsters in the
academy, that would save us a shed-load in transfer fees,
thereby giving us a competitive edge in that area.

More importantly though, we hoped that the new man
would have conviction and courage in that conviction. This
is essential for a long term project - death by football? an
empty philosophy from a man who seems to have only
learnt about PR quotes at the feet of Mourinho.

Finally, the manager of LFC needs to have a psychopathic
need to win trophies.

You're 100% correct dude, Suarez drew attention away from
the reality.

£120 million spent in transfer fees.  Faith in youth?

The manager from Swansea paying £16 million to Milan seems
like someone who has developed a taste for Ferrero Rocher when
they should be eating raw steak nicked from the back of a
restaurant. Self-indulgence, delusion, with the club picking up
the tab.

Trophies?? This reign is all about biding time and packaging
together talking points for a Powerpoint presentation to dazzle
a bunch of clueless suits when the inevitable vacancy for the England
manager's gig arises.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 19, 2014, 04:41:08 PM
I think it's safe to say now, into our third season of Keystone Cops defending, that Rodgers doesn't have a clue how to set up and coach the defensive side of the game.

None of this "it's early in the season" nonsense. This has been evident at any randomly chosen point at any of the 86 league games Rodgers has presided over. Now we have "the risk that wasn't Remy", £16M worth of footballing chaos, last season's crack that ultimately cost us the league, has now become a gaping chasm.

Rodgers needs to pour custard on it and swallow his pride, and get in some assistance to coach the defensive side of football, or if we do have a coach at the club capable of doing so, Rodgers needs to let that person loose on the training ground.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 19, 2014, 04:44:15 PM
Originally, as I understand it, what we were supposed
to be getting was a manager who could work effectively
on a shoe string.

Someone who could develop quality youngsters in the
academy, that would save us a shed-load in transfer fees,
thereby giving us a competitive edge in that area.

More importantly though, we hoped that the new man
would have conviction and courage in that conviction. This
is essential for a long term project - death by football? an
empty philosophy from a man who seems to have only
learnt about PR quotes at the feet of Mourinho.

Finally, the manager of LFC needs to have a psychopathic
need to win trophies.

You're 100% correct dude, Suarez drew attention away from
the reality.

£120 million spent in transfer fees.  Faith in youth?

The manager from Swansea paying £16 million to Milan seems
like someone who has developed a taste for Ferrero Rocher when
they should be eating raw steak nicked from the back of a
restaurant. Self-indulgence, delusion, with the club picking up
the tab.

Trophies?? This reign is all about biding time and packaging
together talking points for a Powerpoint presentation to dazzle
a bunch of clueless suits when the inevitable vacancy for the England
manager's gig arises.

Modern football (unless you're backed by petro dollars) summed up nicely, there Ed. Damned depressing too.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 04:44:30 PM
Originally, as I understand it, what we were supposed
to be getting was a manager who could work effectively
on a shoe string.

Someone who could develop quality youngsters in the
academy, that would save us a shed-load in transfer fees,
thereby giving us a competitive edge in that area.

More importantly though, we hoped that the new man
would have conviction and courage in that conviction. This
is essential for a long term project - death by football? an
empty philosophy from a man who seems to have only
learnt about PR quotes at the feet of Mourinho.

Finally, the manager of LFC needs to have a psychopathic
need to win trophies.

You're 100% correct dude, Suarez drew attention away from
the reality.

£120 million spent in transfer fees.  Faith in youth?

The manager from Swansea paying £16 million to Milan seems
like someone who has developed a taste for Ferrero Rocher when
they should be eating raw steak nicked from the back of a
restaurant. Self-indulgence, delusion, with the club picking up
the tab.

Trophies?? This reign is all about biding time and packaging
together talking points for a Powerpoint presentation to dazzle
a bunch of clueless suits when the inevitable vacancy for the England
manager's gig arises.

absolutely, Ed.

Rodgers, mark my words, will never in his career win a major trophy, for any club.

He is just someone who spouts endless BS. 

I always found, in my working life, there are basically two types - those who are very good at what they do (and get on with it, with little fan-fare); and those who talk a good game, with all the right catch-phrases, and all the BS.

I always felt that our owners wanted to bring someone in on the cheap.....and Rodgers was that lemon.

A top manager would have cost money.

Our owners will learn to their costs, that they made a major error.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 04:48:21 PM
I think it's safe to say now, into our third season of Keystone Cops defending, that Rodgers doesn't have a clue how to set up and coach the defensive side of the game.

None of this "it's early in the season" nonsense. This has been evident at any randomly chosen point at any of the 86 league games Rodgers has presided over. Now we have "the risk that wasn't Remy", £16M worth of footballing chaos, last season's crack that ultimately cost us the league, has now become a gaping chasm.

Rodgers needs to pour custard on it and swallow his pride, and get in some assistance to coach the defensive side of football, or if we do have a coach at the club capable of doing so, Rodgers needs to let that person loose on the training ground.

it goes beyond a defensive issue, Tes.

the key is balance.  And Rodgers has no idea how to build a balanced side (nor does he rate it as important).

I was going to post earlier this week, but then did not have the time, comments from Van Gaal, where he spoke about his efforts to now create a balanced side at Old Trafford.  Balance was, for him, key to building a successful team.

It's time for Rodgers to go.  Some primary school yard is missing a sports teacher.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 19, 2014, 05:02:50 PM
I always found, in my working life, there are basically two types - those who are very good at what they do (and get on with it, with little fan-fare)
Sir Bob Paisley!

Shankly was different, talked a lot but he had
convictions and courage in them.

It's f**king laughable that we have been reduced
to having the current muppet in charge.

Modern football (unless you're backed by petro dollars) summed up nicely, there Ed. Damned depressing too.
He just doesn't have the big balls or talent needed
to go toe to toe with the elite managers or clubs in
the Premier League (never mind Europe!). His tenure
is all about making friends that will be useful for
his post-L.F.C. career.

It has never struck me that he saw himself as the manager
of L.F.C. - gaffer (godfather). More like the job is a stepping
stone for him (cue the Monkees  ;D ).
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 19, 2014, 05:06:20 PM
The owners need to get themselves over for the Real game and use it to secure Ancelotti for next season.

When you look at the squad we have, the manager should be getting far more from it than he is doing.

My worry is that the owners will retreat from investing in the team like they did after Dalglish's disastrous transfer splurging.

Then again, I've no confidence in the manager, transfer committee or any combination of, to spend the money well and on the right players.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 19, 2014, 05:07:07 PM
Some primary school yard is missing a sports teacher.
;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 19, 2014, 05:15:00 PM
My worry is that the owners will retreat from investing in the team
As I see it Tes £120 million on signings is the key
moment in his time at LFC.

It's the magnifying glass under which Rodgers
management ability of all areas of a top club
should be judged.

Can't be excuses after that.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 05:22:26 PM
anyone here a member of the other liverpool forums (e.g. redandwhitekop)?

what is the reaction at the minute to Rodgers and our performances?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 05:26:31 PM
Sir Bob Paisley!

Shankly was different, talked a lot but he had
convictions and courage in them.

It's f**king laughable that we have been reduced
to having the current muppet in charge.
He just doesn't have the big balls or talent needed
to go toe to toe with the elite managers or clubs in
the Premier League (never mind Europe!). His tenure
is all about making friends that will be useful for
his post-L.F.C. career.

It has never struck me that he saw himself as the manager
of L.F.C. - gaffer (godfather). More like the job is a stepping
stone for him (cue the Monkees  ;D ).

 :D

forget coming on the pitch to Z Cars.

Hey Hey We're the Monkees!

Cue Guardian labelling us as wacists.

Yes, Shankly was an original.  He had talent.

Bob Paisley took the baton on from Shankly, and was (for me) without doubt our best ever manager (indeed, the best ever boss in Britain).

Rodgers is a David O'Leary type - talking sweet talk, but making hay while the sun shines, because he knows that sooner or later, he will get caught on.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 05:33:24 PM
The owners need to get themselves over for the Real game and use it to secure Ancelotti for next season.

When you look at the squad we have, the manager should be getting far more from it than he is doing.

My worry is that the owners will retreat from investing in the team like they did after Dalglish's disastrous transfer splurging.

agreed, Tes.

Our owners have got to man up, admit they installed the wrong man, and now go and bring in a top boss.

Ancellotti will cost money - but he (along with Benitez) is on the top tier of managers.

Amateurs, like Rodgers and his transfer team and scouts, are good in so much as, they can turn on a computer and look at OPTA stats.

But it takes a helluva lot more than that to bring in the right type, to fill gaps and needs in a team.....and a helluva lot more to organise and put together a balanced side.

Many of our young lads will come good.  We have bought lots of great young potential.

But an experienced boss, would have brought in a balanced array of talent.....a couple to go straight in to the team, two or three other younger lads to learn the ropes, etc.

But what we will never have, under our snake-oil selling boss, is balance.  He has no skill in this area.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 19, 2014, 06:17:15 PM
anyone here a member of the other liverpool forums (e.g. redandwhitekop)?
I keep away from those group think sh*tholes  ;D
:D

forget coming on the pitch to Z Cars.

Hey Hey We're the Monkees!
I prefer this one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N9Lkpt6SrY


"When I first met you girl you didn't have no shoes
Now you're walking 'round like you're front page news.
You've been awful careful 'bout the friends you choose"


Rodgers is a David O'Leary type
Didn't he also have an unshakeable faith in youth - they were his babies. Cringe.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 19, 2014, 07:09:11 PM
The solution to our striking woes:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0URS2DCcAEFRJ4.png:large)

Mario Balotelli vs Emile Heskey: Who made the better start to Liverpool career?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/mario-balotelli-vs-emile-heskey-who-made-the-better-start-to-liverpool-career-9804865.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/mario-balotelli-vs-emile-heskey-who-made-the-better-start-to-liverpool-career-9804865.html)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 19, 2014, 07:51:06 PM
it goes beyond a defensive issue, Tes.

the key is balance.  And Rodgers has no idea how to build a balanced side (nor does he rate it as important).

I was going to post earlier this week, but then did not have the time, comments from Van Gaal, where he spoke about his efforts to now create a balanced side at Old Trafford.  Balance was, for him, key to building a successful team.

It's time for Rodgers to go.  Some primary school yard is missing a sports teacher.

When we attack Roders has us only focused on attack. We're not set up defensively behind the ball and behind the attack, so when we lose possession we're wide open.

I remember watching how Taggart had the Mancs setup and even from highlights on MOTD, you could see when they attacked, when they had the ball on the edge of the opponent's area, the back four (of the Mancs), were already on the halfway line, therefore squeezing up behind the attack and concentrating the play entirely in the opponent's half. It meant also that their midfield could support the attack, but without leaving huge gaps and a great distance between themselves and their defence. If the play broke down the team were already compact and able to win the ball back within their opponent's half, and didn't allow any room for the opponent to break out.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 19, 2014, 08:31:11 PM
When we attack Roders has us only focused on attack. We're not set up defensively behind the ball and behind the attack, so when we lose possession we're wide open.
Jonathan Wilson was writing about this recently in relation
to Man City.

He said something along the lines that the best teams in
Europe play counter-counter.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/oct/01/the-question-counter-counter-important-counterattack

What would concern me, as evidenced by our recent scraping
past much weaker sides and the absence of Sturridge is that
we have evolved into a very predictable side to play against.

At which point we return to the Dude's point on balance. A balanced
team, by definition works as a unit. The gaps are not as many. A
balanced side can also absorb the loss of a player or two because
others can compensate while the different personnel fit in to
their roles. But because the side is balanced, generally those on the
fringes know the system anyway.

If ever there was a key to the success of the great Liverpool sides
(who as noted in the article above there somewhere could stand in
the tunnel beside Real Madrid in the European final without a care
in the world) it's this - balance.

He also writes on Balotelli here:

http://www.thenational.ae/sport/mario-balotelli-is-an-easy-target-but-liverpools-issues-go-much-deeper
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 10:12:45 PM
I keep away from those group think sh*tholes  ;D

 ;D     and I thought it was just me who they banned!

like you, I hate those *group-think* watering holes.

And if you dare veer off what is deemed the accepted default opinion, you get smeared, blacklisted, suspended and banned.

One has to use phrases like "Brendan will be disappointed with that performance today" as opposed to "No balance.  A circus of clowns.  Get fecken David Brent his P45"

I prefer this one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N9Lkpt6SrY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N9Lkpt6SrY)


"When I first met you girl you didn't have no shoes
Now you're walking 'round like you're front page news.
You've been awful careful 'bout the friends you choose"

Didn't he also have an unshakeable faith in youth - they were his babies. Cringe.

excellent track!   A real rocker.  I can imagine Joe Jackson (is she really going out with him) doing a great cover of that.

Back home, when out walking, I would often sing Monkee songs - pleasant valley sunday, daydream believer, etc.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 19, 2014, 10:20:07 PM
Not much time, so gonna reply to Tes and Ed in a single post.

Re balance.  It is key.

And we will NEVER have proper balance whilst Captain Marvel is in the team.

Even with the best laid plans, he will always pull the team out of position, because he has no discipline.

Gerrard is, and always has been the problem.

Rafa minimised it for a time, by taking him out of the engine room, and successfully deploying him wide right.

Or when we played him more forward, he was also not going to cause fatal damage (when moves broke down).

We need to move on from that era.

Maybe Rodgers could drop him, prior to us jettisoning Rodgers.  i.e.  Leave a clean deck for a new boss coming in.  :)



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 19, 2014, 10:42:42 PM
Not much time, so gonna reply to Tes and Ed in a single post.

Re balance.  It is key.

And we will NEVER have proper balance whilst Captain Marvel is in the team.

Even with the best laid plans, he will always pull the team out of position, because he has no discipline.

Gerrard is, and always has been the problem.

Rafa minimised it for a time, by taking him out of the engine room, and successfully deploying him wide right.

Or when we played him more forward, he was also not going to cause fatal damage (when moves broke down).

We need to move on from that era.

Maybe Rodgers could drop him, prior to us jettisoning Rodgers.  i.e.  Leave a clean deck for a new boss coming in.  :)

Rodgers won't drop him, or plan his replacement or do anything that sees him be the manager that presided over the end of Gerrard's LFC career. Most fans are crying out for a defensive midfielder to help the defence and hence the team. Gerrard can be used off the bench.
Taggart was big enough to do it with both Scholes and Giggs. Rodgers is putting himself before the good of the team. There's no other conclusion I can draw.

Likewise with Balotelli. He wasn't isolated as much today and missing that chance had nothing to do with anything but him.
I'd rather see Lambert and Borini now until Sturridge comes back. But dropping Balotelli will be like admitting he got the risk taking wrong. So it won't happen.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 20, 2014, 01:20:40 AM
Rodgers won't drop him, or plan his replacement or do anything that sees him be the manager that presided over the end of Gerrard's LFC career. Most fans are crying out for a defensive midfielder to help the defence and hence the team. Gerrard can be used off the bench.
Taggart was big enough to do it with both Scholes and Giggs. Rodgers is putting himself before the good of the team. There's no other conclusion I can draw.

Likewise with Balotelli. He wasn't isolated as much today and missing that chance had nothing to do with anything but him.
I'd rather see Lambert and Borini now until Sturridge comes back. But dropping Balotelli will be like admitting he got the risk taking wrong. So it won't happen.

oh, I know, Tes

But I can but dream.

Re Balotelli - not only is he lazy and a waster of good chances.

But I also foresee our other lads getting very peeved, if he continues to refuse to lay the ball off to them, when they are in better positions.

I think he will sow discontent in the team, with his attitude.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 20, 2014, 08:36:59 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N9Lkpt6SrY


"When I first met you girl you didn't have no shoes
Now you're walking 'round like you're front page news.
You've been awful careful 'bout the friends you choose"



When I read those lyrics I thought, hang on, I know that song, but I know them from:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXZ8WgyNYYg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXZ8WgyNYYg)

The song Brendan whistles to himself (and Mrs R  :D):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Miico0R8vWg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Miico0R8vWg) - the nearest Steve Jones ever got to a solo.  ;D

And one for the defence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6GDdKrQ8EI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6GDdKrQ8EI)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 20, 2014, 12:07:33 PM
Terrible performance that resulted in arguably the luckiest win I've seen during the almost 35 years I've watched this club play football.

A few reflections:

* I've been an advocate of Rodgers but find it harder and harder to genuinely believe he's gonna take us places after realising he's no closer to implementing a strong and stable defensive system he was 26 months ago. Or as my Manc mate correctly says: You defend with numbers, that's pretty much your defensive game.

* I have noticed for quite some time now how "lesser" team manage ways to get the ball to stick in our box. We just cannot clear it as a means to push the team up the pitch and re-group. Look at Skrtel's "clearance", if that's what you want to call it, that actually was the reason for their first. There were numerous times yesterday and in games before that where a simple clearance would help the team get back on track. But we just seem unable to. Why is this so difficult for us?

*At the other end we look increasingly predictable and one-dimensional with our constant flick in's and passing back and forth. The chances we create is more of accidental origin than high quality attacking.

*In most games this season we've been losing dead balls and 50/50's. EVERY team we play displays a far greater hunger and urgency than we do. This also raises questions about Rodger's ability to get the best out of his men. No matter how many new player you have to settle in, no matter injuries, no matter how many Suarez you lose you can always give it your all - except for us it seems.

* A final reflection is the failure of any player to step forward. Yesterday Henderson had another poor afternoon offering nothing besides his "work rate". Sterling, beside those final 10 minutes had another wasteful game. It reflects quite badly on Rodgers no player has managed to up his game enough to dampen the loss of Suarez.

After the win against Baggies I was hopeful the international break would help us forget the poor start to the sesaon. Needless to say I was in shock for most of the game witnessing our worst performance since Hull away last season. To be so completely and utterly outplayed by a rock bottom QPR side just isn't acceptable no matter how you look at it. I always expected a reaction to losing Suarez and the overachievement we made last season. But I couldn't dream we'd lose it all in such a short space of time. Worst of all, there will be no time to rectify the structural problems we suffer from with 6 games coming up in the next 19 days, of which 3 are against the European Champions and Chelsea.

I'm not saying I want Rodgers out just yet. But I can't see a way out of this for him. We're so deprived of anything resembling cohesion, structure, balance, organisation, mental strength or hunger I can see us spend most of this season in no mans land ending up in 7th or 8th place. It's like he took over a couple of weeks ago. 2 wasted years it seams, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 20, 2014, 05:35:58 PM
;D     and I thought it was just me who they banned!

like you, I hate those *group-think* watering holes.

And if you dare veer off what is deemed the accepted default opinion, you get smeared, blacklisted, suspended and banned.

One has to use phrases like "Brendan will be disappointed with that performance today" as opposed to "No balance.  A circus of clowns.  Get fecken David Brent his P45"
In terms of freedom of speech they make the 3rd Reich look
like Canada  ;D I'd love to post there just to know what it feels like
to live in North Korea  ;D and most likely who ever runs these
things is a 17 year old whose daddy works in the City.


When I read those lyrics I thought, hang on, I know that song, but I know them from:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXZ8WgyNYYg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXZ8WgyNYYg)
Ha, ha, didn't know the pistols covered it!

On the theme of punk, I would describe us under Rodgers as Part-timers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmbJdcsGl_Q

The song Brendan whistles to himself (and Mrs R  :D):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Miico0R8vWg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Miico0R8vWg) - the nearest Steve Jones ever got to a solo.  ;D
Jones recognised early that w*nky guitar solos for the sake of it
were not necessary. Now if only we'd do the same with ineffectual
passing.

I'm not saying I want Rodgers out just yet. But I can't see a way out of this for him. We're so deprived of anything resembling cohesion, structure, balance, organisation.
But sure this is the privilege of being the manager of LFC.

THE PRESSURE OF IT!

Any dope can manage a side if Suarez is bangin' them in for fun.

Many a manager has struggled in Autumn and recovered. We're
still demanding a trophy and top 4 though. The Liverpool way is
sell Keegan buy Dalglish.

Now, of course, if he wants a gig where the small detail of winning
a trophy is not an issue and performing well on camera is, he should
start working on his slides for the FA panel that decides who should
succeed Hodge.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 20, 2014, 06:34:36 PM
Fear not, the humble one, the one with endless humility, the one who takes each day as it comes, plans to be Liverpool boss for twenty years - before taking a top job in Spain.

Brendan Rodgers has revealed he wishes to remain Liverpool manager "for another 20 odd years" before moving to La Liga.

The Northern Irish boss, who has dramatically improved the Reds' fortunes since taking over in 2012, spoke to Spanish football expert Guillem Balague during an interview for AS:

"I’m only 41 which is very young and there are lots of things I want to achieve here at Liverpool, its an incredible club and I hope to be managing here for another 20 odd years."

"One day hopefully it can take me to Spain and I can experience a wonderful country, culture and as I said, some wonderful football club."

The manager confirmed he has studied the language and that he converses with Liverpool's Spanish contingent in their mother tongue. Rodgers' chat made it onto the front page of the Spanish newspaper, per Balague:

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 20, 2014, 10:11:26 PM
Rodgers' chat made it onto the front page of the Spanish newspaper, per Balague:

"When I first met you girl you didn't have no shoes
Now you're walking 'round like you're front page news."
  ;D

This is the type of goal I love to see - arriving from midfield, no fuss, back of the net -Scholesy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SJt9l7DglA

Seems incredible that our scouting department missed Daley.
Must be blind  ::)

Which reminds me wasn't Van Gaal rejected by Rodgers as a potential DF...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 21, 2014, 11:51:16 PM
Which reminds me wasn't Van Gaal rejected by Rodgers as a potential DF...

I think he likes to remember or interpret it that way, but it was probably more a case of stating he wouldn't work under/with a DOF. Van Gaal was rumoured to have been identified as a candidate for the role.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 21, 2014, 11:52:34 PM
"One day hopefully it can take me to Spain and I can experience a wonderful country, culture and as I said, some wonderful football club."

And so we're back to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Saq5E_Bdzws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Saq5E_Bdzws)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v0o0NZbMWg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v0o0NZbMWg)

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 22, 2014, 01:40:27 AM
I think he likes to remember or interpret it that way, but it was probably more a case of stating he wouldn't work under/with a DOF. Van Gaal was rumoured to have been identified as a candidate for the role.
Yeah. My point is also not that Van Gaal should necessarily
be the DoF, though he seems a perfectly decent football man.

But, I take one look at Daley Blind's goal
and recognise quality for £13.8 million?
plus it's precisely that type of goal from midfield
that has eluded us for years.  With the casual
manner of it, late on in a game away from home.
This all suggests to me a key player who could be
influential for years.

Which players has Rodgers signed that will be
quality for years to come? What is he bringing to
the club that justifies him rejecting a DoF?

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2014, 03:24:54 AM
well, the last time Real Madrid came to Anfield, in the Champions League in 2009, we hammered them 4-0.  And their keeper played a blinder - or else it would have been 7 or 8.

Tonight, we will have the perfect opportunity to see the progress we have made in the subsequent 5 years.




Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 22, 2014, 06:41:50 PM
well, the last time Real Madrid came to Anfield, in the Champions League in 2009, we hammered them 4-0.  And their keeper played a blinder - or else it would have been 7 or 8.
If there was any logic behind the signing of Balotelli,
it would be that he would rise to tonight's occasion
and secure a victory for us.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 22, 2014, 06:42:13 PM
Oh yeah don't let a little fact that this club almost went under to deflect from the "progress" we'll see tonight when Real will win quite comfortably.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2014, 07:26:12 PM
If there was any logic behind the signing of Balotelli,
it would be that he would rise to tonight's occasion
and secure a victory for us.

the Balotelli solution involves giving him a ball of his own.   Thus he does not have to give it back, ever.

The lad is the exact opposite of what a Liverpool player is - he is utterly lazy; and he refuses to pass the ball.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2014, 07:29:01 PM
af
Oh yeah don't let a little fact that this club almost went under to deflect from the "progress" we'll see tonight when Real will win quite comfortably.

on the contrary, the club has been financially comfortable all throughout Rodgers time at Anfield.

It almost went under during Rafa's time in charge.......and despite all those issues, he took us to two CL finals, and a runners-up spot in the league....and a trophy or two.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2014, 07:35:11 PM
If there was any logic behind the signing of Balotelli,
it would be that he would rise to tonight's occasion
and secure a victory for us.

he takes a decent free kick in training though....see:

http://bcove.me/d69uoap0 (http://bcove.me/d69uoap0)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 22, 2014, 08:27:22 PM
Men against boys.

I just hope our players learn from this footballing lesson they are receiving.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2014, 08:37:17 PM
I hope our board of directors and owners learn...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 22, 2014, 08:42:08 PM
So we've collectively given up on the manager ever learning.......................... :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2014, 08:44:21 PM
So we've collectively given up on the manager ever learning.......................... :D

one suspects, Barcelona and Madrid won't be beating a path to Brendan's door any time soon (whey they seek a new manager).

 ;)

Jumpers for goal-posts tactics at this level, just don't work.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 22, 2014, 08:46:23 PM
I can see us coming good in the second half of February. With the League Cup, FA Cup and Europe put aside for another season, we can concentrate on the league.

Like a phoenix (the mythological, though non existent bird) we shall soar from the ash box...............just like Icarus. They will call us Hindenburg.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 22, 2014, 08:50:34 PM
See, immediate improvement. We managed to keep a clean sheet for the whole of half time.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2014, 08:52:08 PM
I can see us coming good in the second half of February. With the League Cup, FA Cup and Europe put aside for another season, we can concentrate on the league.

Like a phoenix (the mythological, though non existent bird) we shall soar from the ash box...............just like Icarus. They will call us Hindenburg.

 ;D

yes, when we are out of all the cups, I can see us getting better.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2014, 08:54:22 PM
See, immediate improvement. We managed to keep a clean sheet for the whole of half time.

 :D   If only we could keep Madrid in the dressing room, and let Brendan sweet-talk them, and make loads of friends, and show what a great guy he is - and fantastic orator too.

PS  This could get embarrassing in the second 45 minutes.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2014, 09:40:16 PM
The Guardian live coverage sums it up with:


FULL TIME: Liverpool 0-3 Real Madrid

On the final whistle, Anfield rises to warmly applaud Real Madrid, who have been as brilliant tonight as their own heroes have been dismal. A lesson learned? The return fixture at the Bernabeu will see if that’s the case. A lesson taught, certainly. There goes Liverpool’s 100 percent record against Real Madrid.

90 min: A throaty, emotional version of You’ll Never Walk Alone. Liverpool and these supporters will need an awful lot of hope right now, because this team is almost totally bereft of confidence and quite frankly in a bit of a mess. “Thankfully, we’ll never have to face the likes of Real Madrid again this season,”........ “Oh, wait.”
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 22, 2014, 09:50:52 PM
1 clean sheet in 19 games and still Brendan doesn't change tact.

The best managers can learn and adapt to situations.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 22, 2014, 10:04:58 PM
1 clean sheet in 19 games and still Brendan doesn't change tact.

The best managers can learn and adapt to situations.
Lad, you ever heard of a guy called Rafa f**king Benitez?

Did you ever see the teams he put together and how they played in Europe?

Do you seriously think that he wouldn't have spent hours poring over and analysing
videos of Madrid (since the draw was announced), identified weaknesses and put
together a precise strategy to counter and exploit them which would have been drilled
into the players in the lead up.

It might not have been pretty to watch but it's the result that matters in Europe
and you would have seen 11 men on that pitch working tirelessly for 95 minutes
who knew their job.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 22, 2014, 10:08:57 PM
1 clean sheet in 19 games and still Brendan doesn't change tact.

The best managers can learn and adapt to situations.

Edward, come on over to the dark side.

You have friends here.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on October 22, 2014, 10:23:05 PM
Edward, come on over to the dark side.

You have friends here.

Next you'll be saying that you are my father  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 22, 2014, 11:15:58 PM
There's alarming similarities between Rafa and Rodgers at this time - both using a set up the rest of the world can see doesn't work but stubbornly persist. I don't understand why he persist with this 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or whatever you want to call it, when it's so blatantly obvious it doesn't suit this set of players. Again our central midfield was nowhere to be seen although they were up against some brilliant players.

Henderson showed again he's a squadplayer at best. He will NEVER take the step, NEVER. Allen and Sterling the only players to turn up.  Coutinho started off brightly but faded soon. Balotelli I gave up on tonight - it's gonna get dirty. Moreno's completely lost defensively and even though Enrique isn't the best LB the world has seen defensively, at least he offers something going forward.  Hell, when Moreno make Johnson look like Phil Neal in his hey days you know he's having a poor game.

I don't know but the most important thing right now is that Rodger's realise he's got it wrong. That he have the courage to back down from his principles, ideas or philosophy or what have you and start all over with a formation that suits and utilise whatever strength this squad has.

I have a bad feeling we're about to go on a disastrous run with like 7 defeats out of 8 or something.

Cred must go to RM though. They're a class act and so is Ancelotti.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 12:58:28 AM
The best managers can learn and adapt to situations.

B. Rodgers. He was not for turning.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 01:09:48 AM
Cred must go to RM though. They're a class act and so is Ancelotti.

Totally agree. Ancelotti is very unItalian in the way his teams attack, but very Italian in the way they defend.

Carlo Ancelotti, the unItalian Italian. Tell Perez you've taken the team as far as you can and you want one last challenge. Then ring up Boston and offer your services.

Just as we needed Bobby Robson (the only man for the job) when Dalglish walked first time, we needed Ancelotti at the end of Dalglish's caretaker stint. One huge defining error we can't change, the other we can.

Ancelotti is everything this club needs.

Rodgers has given it a go, but he needs to refine his philosophy somewhere else (Real Betis would be a good place). We can't afford to get as far behind again as we could be by the season's end. With FFP, the door is slowly closing on the top tier teams. We need to be on the right side of it when it does close to. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 01:11:37 AM
Next you'll be saying that you are my father  ;D

Confession begins at 11am sharp after Dude's starched his dog collar.  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 01:19:20 AM
We need to reappraise our whole transfer philosophy and way we identify targets. Then we need scouts who can actually accurately assess the qualities of players, and whether they will actually fit into the team or not.

The manager needs to either decide his way(s) of playing and make sure players are bought that suit it exactly, or he has to devise a method of playing that suits the players he's assembled. At the moment each is at odds with the other.

He can't be so blind as to not be able to see the most obvious of the flaws, so that begs the question as to whether to knows the solutions or even has any alternative ideas to try, rather than doing the same thing game after game with the same results.   
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2014, 02:47:11 AM
We need to reappraise our whole transfer philosophy and way we identify targets. Then we need scouts who can actually accurately assess the qualities of players, and whether they will actually fit into the team or not.

The manager needs to either decide his way(s) of playing and make sure players are bought that suit it exactly, or he has to devise a method of playing that suits the players he's assembled. At the moment each is at odds with the other.

He can't be so blind as to not be able to see the most obvious of the flaws, so that begs the question as to whether to knows the solutions or even has any alternative ideas to try, rather than doing the same thing game after game with the same results.
Tes, I think the obvious fact is Rafa had shown prior to arriving
that he could take on the likes of Real & Barca and beat them.

Fergie had shown prior to arriving at Utd. that he could win trophies.

I don't have the facts to hand but I'd be certain that these guys
were managing campaigns across different competitions while
achieving these feats.

Our guy showed that if he got knocked out of all competitions early
he could rest his players at Swansea and using 1 particular brand of
football occasionally give top teams in the Prem a run for their money...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2014, 01:18:45 PM
Next you'll be saying that you are my father  ;D

 :D

we will convert you to dudeism

Father Dude
The Church of the Latter-Day Dude (Dudeism) .com
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2014, 01:22:48 PM
Totally agree. Ancelotti is very unItalian in the way his teams attack, but very Italian in the way they defend.

Carlo Ancelotti, the unItalian Italian. Tell Perez you've taken the team as far as you can and you want one last challenge. Then ring up Boston and offer your services.

Just as we needed Bobby Robson (the only man for the job) when Dalglish walked first time, we needed Ancelotti at the end of Dalglish's caretaker stint. One huge defining error we can't change, the other we can.

Ancelotti is everything this club needs.

tis amazing how we always felt the same - re needing Bobby Robson at Anfield.

Yes, I would break the bank to employ someone like Ancelotti at Anfield. 

And i hold Rafa in the same esteem also.

Either man will do for me.

I fear that when Van Gall does not bring United the success they crave, that they will move for Ancelotti.

But I have a sneeking feeling that Ancelotti quite likes the idea of managing Liverpool.  I think Istanbul made him realise how passionate we are for our football, and how much we appreciate top personnel.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2014, 01:31:48 PM
We need to reappraise our whole transfer philosophy and way we identify targets. Then we need scouts who can actually accurately assess the qualities of players, and whether they will actually fit into the team or not.

whoever scouted Balotelli needs to be handed his P45.

And if he was scouted via a set of OPTA stats on a computer monitor, then the entire transfer committee (and Rodgers) need to be dismissed.

Has there ever been such a ridiculous purchase - i.e. someone who was so ill-suited to being a Liverpool player.

Liverpool's style - and thus it's players are known for three things - hard work, movement, and passing to others in a better position.   Balotelli fails on all counts.

Was it not a clue, when not another sinner in Europe wanted him.  Was it not a clue that he was being flogged off at a rock bottom price.

I'm sorry but the scouting system, and transfer comittee at Anfield need to be looked at.

This has been a Spurs Summer.   We have urinated a whole chunk of money down the drain.

We have bought some great potential (Can offers so much for the future).  But right now, I see very little that can go right into the side and move trees.

I know some of you highly rate Llalana.  To date, I have not seen enough to think WOOOW.  Looks, to my eyes, very workman like.  We'll see.  He does work hard though.  So I am hoping that more quality will come.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2014, 01:36:44 PM
Tes, I think the obvious fact is Rafa had shown prior to arriving
that he could take on the likes of Real & Barca and beat them.

Fergie had shown prior to arriving at Utd. that he could win trophies.

I don't have the facts to hand but I'd be certain that these guys
were managing campaigns across different competitions while
achieving these feats.

Our guy showed that if he got knocked out of all competitions early
he could rest his players at Swansea and using 1 particular brand of
football occasionally give top teams in the Prem a run for their money...

teams have caught him on Ed.

they know how to counteract him - i.e. keep it tight and shut up shop for the first 20 minutes.

Ferguson not only had Aberdeen dominating Scotland, he also won the Cup Winners Cup, beating Real Madrid in the final.....if my memory serves me correctly.  And you can imagine the limited resources of a small very north of Scotland based club.

Regarding last night - Rafa has the tactical skills.  A fake messiah like Rodgers will always get caught out on such nights.  Thankfully Madrid dropped into second gear in the second half, and saved their energies for other days, or else it would have been a cricket score.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 23, 2014, 01:38:51 PM
Confession begins at 11am sharp after Dude's starched his dog collar.  :D

sub-title - After Dude's sobered up. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2014, 02:43:32 PM
whoever scouted Balotelli needs to be handed his P45.

Jamie Redknapp, also part of Sky’s coverage, questioned why Liverpool had signed Balotelli in the first place. “I don’t blame Mario Balotelli – I blame Brendan Rodgers for bringing him here. How he thought he could turn around a player that Mourinho, Mancini, Prandelli have all washed their hands of …

“There’s a reason when you go to the supermarket and things are half price. Why on earth they went for him, I’ll never know. They should have just left him alone. The fact he [Rodgers] went and got him, it just doesn’t make any sense to me.”


And I have to agree.

There's no point in the manager criticising the player,
as the responsibility for signing him rests solely with him.

Which brings us back to the signings Rodgers has made
and why he felt that he had no need for a DoF.

I fear we are going to find ourselves in a no man's land
where we can't attract quality signings from Europe and
can't turn whatever we get into top class.

Any criticisms of players by the manager, suggests a
mentality of someone who sees himself as being on a
par (better even?) with Mourinho, Mancini and Prandelli
but then can't accept it when the eveidence suggests
otherwise.

Good managers don't identify problems, they find solutions.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 03:02:41 PM
tis amazing how we always felt the same - re needing Bobby Robson at Anfield.

For me, Ancelotti is the modern day Bobby Robson. The way he always conducts himself, the way he kept his council (and has done ever since about it) at Chelsea when the Russian sacked Ray Wilkins and lumbered him with an assistant, the fact he wins trophies wherever he goes in a style that's the definition of balance, and the fact that he's not a cheque book manager (his last two clubs have owner pressure to spend their wealth) is a bonus.

Like you, Dude, I get the feeling that being a 'real' football man, he would relish the chance to get us back as a European heavyweight. He's a huge fan of Anfield and the atmosphere.

The owners need to act and get Ancelotti tied up for when his Real contract ends.

Rafa would probably divide the fanbase, or rather the fanbase would divide over him. If he could bury the hatchet and re-unite with Pako then I'd definitely have him on my list, but without, I feel he's just lost something, or rather he's not everything he could be.

Again, like Sir Bobby, Ancelotti doesn't have a permanent sidekick, an 'other half'. That for me tips the balance. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 04:34:12 PM
Real Madrid’s Carlo Ancelotti ‘honoured’ to face Liverpool at Anfield

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/21/carlo-ancelotti-real-madrid-liverpool-honour (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/21/carlo-ancelotti-real-madrid-liverpool-honour)

"Real Madrid’s manager Carlo Ancelotti said it was “a great honour” to come to Liverpool as only the second individual after Bob Paisley to win three European Cups.

“He was a fantastic manager and to be sitting here in the stadium is a great honour for me,” Ancelotti said. “The atmosphere at this ground is always a little bit special, and the European history is exceptional. I think you will see a spectacular explosion of football on Wednesday night, everything that is good about the game.
"
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2014, 04:55:12 PM
Real Madrid’s Carlo Ancelotti ‘honoured’ to face Liverpool at Anfield
Nice words by classy guy.

I think the players did some kind of round of applause
for him after the game in the dressing room. Presumably
they knew it was important for him to be 3 up against us
at half-time and win the game.

If we start to look at the Rodgers minus DoF as a failed
experiment i.e. Blind £13.8 million and Kroos £20 million,
we're now in a position where we are consistently missing
out on the non-superstar, but highly influential players while
at the same time paying crazy money to the fruits of
Southampton's youth academy.

Then it's time for the owners to begin asking the question,
where in his 20 year tenure can Rodgers realistically take us?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 06:40:59 PM
Then it's time for the owners to begin asking the question,
where in his 20 year tenure can Rodgers realistically take us?

That's the stuff of nightmares. It's becoming pretty obvious that he doesn't have any answers to the questions being asked.

Balotelli's providing a convenient attention diversion at the moment. I hope the owners can see through that particular smokescreen.

In the absence of a suitable replacement and whilst we're in the top six and within striking distance of fourth, I'd leave Rodgers in place, but the scales are not tipped in his favour for still being in our dugout next August.

Suarez was never going to be replaced with one player. Even Messi and CRonaldo wouldn't bring everything he did, but goals and lessening the need for as many could and should have been sorted, an it's the manager's job to make sure everyone put in an extra 5%. Whilst an increase overall in team effort would still not be as noticeable as one man's effort, it would have taken focus away from accusations of being a one man team and the desired 'affect' could have been achieved.
Are we saying or being shown now that the players were inspired and motivated by a team mate, rather than the manager? 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2014, 06:53:01 PM
That's the stuff of nightmares. It's becoming pretty obvious that he doesn't have any answers to the questions being asked.

Balotelli's providing a convenient attention diversion at the moment. I hope the owners can see through that particular smokescreen.

In the absence of a suitable replacement and whilst we're in the top six and within striking distance of fourth, I'd leave Rodgers in place, but the scales are not tipped in his favour for still being in our dugout next August.
Brilliant Tes!

This man, who refused to work under a DoF, was
given £120 million to spend.

We're not interested in the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

Management, ultimately is about delivering results.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 08:47:45 PM
Brilliant Tes!

This man, who refused to work under a DoF, was
given £120 million to spend.

We're not interested in the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

Management, ultimately is about delivering results.

He's now spent around £200M during his time here. Whilst I'm not expecting 100% success, even Bob Paisley had his Frank McGarvey, but has that money been used wisely, on the right players, the right positions, players at the right time in their career to offer us what we need, of sufficient quality and has value been gained on at least 3 in 4 transactions?

It may seem short sighted to castigate him for buying 'for the future' as well as the present, but by his own admission, the squad was still paper thin after 4 windows, and now after 5, can we really spot the difference?

Should he for example have spent £8M* on Alberto, £7M* on Ilori and even £18M* on Sakho last Summer, when he'd spent his first Summer trimming the wage bill (aka experienced players) and hence the squad, both in terms of quality, experience and 'overall' depth (not just numbers)?
Were either of the first two such highly talented youngsters that we simply had to have them now, or regret not buying them 'when we had the chance', ala CRonaldo and Kun Aguero?
Or spending £10.5M* on Borini, only to dispatch him on loan after one injury hit season, spend another £8M* on his replacement, only to send him out on loan aswell. Was that really the best use of £18.5M* that could have been made?

We've spent £30M+ on Sakho and Moreno, two young defenders with the ability to offer something now, but with the hope they will only be at the start of their contribution level, and that that particular graphical curve will arc sharply upwards over the next 5 years, but we've not invested in the coaching infrastructure to help that become a reality.

We looked at Lovren last Summer, and had had an interest pre-dating Rodgers, but for whatever reason chose to spend marginally less on Ilori than Southampton spent on Lovren, and then decide maybe we should have bought him afterall and then pay out more than double. Maybe at £20M, a 135% increase in price in just 12 months, we should have just decided that particular ship had sailed, especially like in the cases of our other two expensive defensive recruits the infrastructure doesn't exist to make sure we wring every penny of that £20M price tag out of him. 

Was £20M on Markovic a more essential outlay than putting it towards the solution of the 'here and now' problem of filling a Suarez sized hole, especially when a Balotelli, by the manager's own admission, was the best we could afford to fill the £75M boots of Luis?

Obviously as a window is unfolding it can be a touch puzzling as to 'why that player' etc, and 'yeah but hindsight etc' can be used as a counter argument to what I'm saying, but now the window's been shut a while and a long time on last season's transfer activity, is it really any clearer as to why these particular players were bought, how they fit in the overall picture, what made them and the outlay made on each deemed to be so necessary over alternatives not purchased?
Is it a case of 'ah, now I understand' or is the question still as baffling now as it was at the time and at any point since? 

As with Balotelli, everyone knew who and what he was, yet it was a 'risk', but a risk deemed worth taking, but as with any risk, you can't then moan or be surprised when the known potential downside becomes uppermost.
Has the £16M + wages investment really heralded any benefit over not having spent it, especially when there was a good chance that this situation was likely to be the outcome? And playing Balotelli as a lone striker when he clearly isn't and never has been is hardly helping to try and prevent the highly potential downside from becoming reality. Rodgers in a way has poured flammable liquid on the flames and is now wondering why a 'liquid' hasn't doused the fire.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 09:05:10 PM
I've just seen this on another forum, and in an amusing way, it's quite true about Mario:

"I feel for the lad because he's just hapless, not nasty or overtly selfish. But he's like the girlfriend who'll give you a great b***j** once every month, but has you taxiing her all over, expects a load of attention, hates your music, and is so thick you have to repeat everything twice and you're still not sure she's got it. You know it can't and won't last, and when it is finally over, you'll be wondering why you didn't ditch her sooner.

And yes, eventually you'll look back and think 'she wasn't all that bad really'. Because you'll remember the b*** j**s and not the stress. Until you spot her down the pub with a new bloke asking him to taxi her around.
"
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 09:06:38 PM
He's now spent around £200M during his time here. Whilst I'm not expecting 100% success, even Bob Paisley had his Frank McGarvey, but has that money been used wisely, on the right players, the right positions, players at the right time in their career to offer us what we need, of sufficient quality and has value been gained on at least 3 in 4 transactions?

It may seem short sighted to castigate him for buying 'for the future' as well as the present, but by his own admission, the squad was still paper thin after 4 windows, and now after 5, can we really spot the difference?

Should he for example have spent £8M* on Alberto, £7M* on Ilori and even £18M* on Sakho last Summer, when he'd spent his first Summer trimming the wage bill (aka experienced players) and hence the squad, both in terms of quality, experience and 'overall' depth (not just numbers)?
Were either of the first two such highly talented youngsters that we simply had to have them now, or regret not buying them 'when we had the chance', ala CRonaldo and Kun Aguero?
Or spending £10.5M* on Borini, only to dispatch him on loan after one injury hit season, spend another £8M* on his replacement, only to send him out on loan aswell. Was that really the best use of £18.5M* that could have been made?

We've spent £30M+ on Sakho and Moreno, two young defenders with the ability to offer something now, but with the hope they will only be at the start of their contribution level, and that that particular graphical curve will arc sharply upwards over the next 5 years, but we've not invested in the coaching infrastructure to help that become a reality.

We looked at Lovren last Summer, and had had an interest pre-dating Rodgers, but for whatever reason chose to spend marginally less on Ilori than Southampton spent on Lovren, and then decide maybe we should have bought him afterall and then pay out more than double. Maybe at £20M, a 135% increase in price in just 12 months, we should have just decided that particular ship had sailed, especially like in the cases of our other two expensive defensive recruits the infrastructure doesn't exist to make sure we wring every penny of that £20M price tag out of him. 

Was £20M on Markovic a more essential outlay than putting it towards the solution of the 'here and now' problem of filling a Suarez sized hole, especially when a Balotelli, by the manager's own admission, was the best we could afford to fill the £75M boots of Luis?

Obviously as a window is unfolding it can be a touch puzzling as to 'why that player' etc, and 'yeah but hindsight etc' can be used as a counter argument to what I'm saying, but now the window's been shut a while and a long time on last season's transfer activity, is it really any clearer as to why these particular players were bought, how they fit in the overall picture, what made them and the outlay made on each deemed to be so necessary over alternatives not purchased?
Is it a case of 'ah, now I understand' or is the question still as baffling now as it was at the time and at any point since? 

As with Balotelli, everyone knew who and what he was, yet it was a 'risk', but a risk deemed worth taking, but as with any risk, you can't then moan or be surprised when the known potential downside becomes uppermost.
Has the £16M + wages investment really heralded any benefit over not having spent it, especially when there was a good chance that this situation was likely to be the outcome? And playing Balotelli as a lone striker when he clearly isn't and never has been is hardly helping to try and prevent the highly potential downside from becoming reality. Rodgers in a way has poured flammable liquid on the flames and is now wondering why a 'liquid' hasn't doused the fire.

* I reserve the right to be slightly out with the fees paid.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 09:21:41 PM
And whilst Rodgers is bringing in (or not) the coaching resources we desperately need, John Achterberg can be hugely upgraded upon also.

A relatively (in comparison to footballers) cheap investment in coaching staff could bear far more fruit than just spending even more money on premium priced bottled tap spring water to pour into the leaky bucket that is the whole defensive side of the manager's philosophy.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 23, 2014, 09:34:20 PM
I've just seen this on another forum, and in an amusing way, it's quite true about Mario:
Jesus, just think if Ronaldo was a bird, what a girlfriend he'd make  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 23, 2014, 09:39:31 PM
Jesus, just think if Ronaldo was a bird, what a girlfriend he'd make  :D

Oh dear, things really are grim, aren't they?  ;D

Knowing our luck we'd wake up with an 'Arry Rednapp, Fat Sham or Steve 'Fathead' Bruce type bird the following morning.   :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 25, 2014, 08:20:04 PM
Liverpool 0 - Hull 0

Always reckoned a draw - because steve bruce has too much, tactically, than our lad.

I think he has to be shown the door, come May, with us in the interim period speaking to people like Ancellotti and Benitez, about the job for next season.

Suarez bought Rodgers time.....without the little uruguayian, rodgers is left naked and exposed for what he really is.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 25, 2014, 09:22:24 PM
I think he has to be shown the door, come May, with us in the interim period speaking to people like Ancellotti and Benitez, about the job for next season.

Suarez bought Rodgers time.....without the little uruguayian, rodgers is left naked and exposed for what he really is.
Would you trust him with any more of the club's money?

Comolli bought Suarez.

It's all about the big decisions and he can't make 'em.

There was arguably a certain logic in the original DF idea
(which Rodgers had the arrogance to reject), a guy with
connections and status in football who could influence
quality non-superstar players to join us from Europe.

But you look at Southampton 5 points ahead of us in the
league after we relieved them of 3 players for £50 million.
One of them Lovren was signed by them for £8.5 million
and sold to us after a season for £20 million??

The signing of Balotelli for £16 million? Borini £11 million?
There are others who's names I can't even remember...

We're led to believe that the absence of Sturridge & presence
of Balotelli are the problem.

This is utter nonsense.

A club such as ours cannot afford to be so wasteful in the
transfer market and hope to be competitive with teams with
far greater resources.

We needed a manager and got a coach.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 26, 2014, 05:58:55 AM
very true. Ed.

But I have always despised the notion though of a Director of Football.

I do not want it, ever.

What I would have instead, is a rejuvenated bootroom......using people like John Aldridge, Roy Evans, etc.  Maybe bring in a senior spaniard, who knows Spain inside out.  Maybe headhunt someone like Graham Carr (Newcastle's top scout).

Your question, Ed - re would I trust Rodgers with any more transfer money.  No. 

He doesn't find talents, that are not already found - instead we will find lads at other top clubs that can't get a game (lads from the likes of chelsea or barcelona eg sturridge)......or be it via young talents via OPTA stats on a computer database.

And we seem to have no system.  We are endlessly linked with wingers.

We need to have some overall plan as to our transfer policy - and I just do not see it.

It's like we have a kid in charge of the sweet shop.   

My fear is that the yankee owners will be so swayed by his oily smarmy explanations, as to give him another season to turn things around.

But what is the point.  Even when we qualify for the CL, what is the point.  We are so out of our depth. What we see in the CL so far, is what I totally expected.  We are clueless.  We have no tactics.    If any club wants to beat us, it is simple......hold your shape and stay tight the first 20 minutes of the game.....after that, Liverpool are there for the taking.  And get on top of Gerrard, he is a weak link, and will make mistakes when pressurised.

Rodgers has to go.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on October 26, 2014, 10:24:56 AM
very true. Ed.

But I have always despised the notion though of a Director of Football.

I do not want it, ever.

What I would have instead, is a rejuvenated bootroom......using people like John Aldridge, Roy Evans, etc.  Maybe bring in a senior spaniard, who knows Spain inside out.  Maybe headhunt someone like Graham Carr (Newcastle's top scout).

Your question, Ed - re would I trust Rodgers with any more transfer money.  No. 

He doesn't find talents, that are not already found - instead we will find lads at other top clubs that can't get a game (lads from the likes of chelsea or barcelona eg sturridge)......or be it via young talents via OPTA stats on a computer database.

And we seem to have no system.  We are endlessly linked with wingers.

We need to have some overall plan as to our transfer policy - and I just do not see it.

It's like we have a kid in charge of the sweet shop.   

My fear is that the yankee owners will be so swayed by his oily smarmy explanations, as to give him another season to turn things around.

But what is the point.  Even when we qualify for the CL, what is the point.  We are so out of our depth. What we see in the CL so far, is what I totally expected.  We are clueless.  We have no tactics.    If any club wants to beat us, it is simple......hold your shape and stay tight the first 20 minutes of the game.....after that, Liverpool are there for the taking.  And get on top of Gerrard, he is a weak link, and will make mistakes when pressurised.

Rodgers has to go.

I'm also concerned whether he has answers to the questions being asked. At the same time I feel it's too early to ask his exit. In fairness any manager would struggle to lose arguably the best forward set-up in the history of the PL. My worry is that Sturridge's season is all but over already. He'll be back just in time for the 3rd international break. I can also see him pick up a another knock after 3-4 games disrupting his recorvery meaning he'll be out effectively til the new year.
 
Even though we struggled to create the kind of chances we created for fun 6 months ago I really think the 2nd half was the best I've seen on this side of August. Allen, again, was an inspiration and one of our better performers. Coutinho really shone when he came on. Can needs games but at least offer physical presence. Gerrard I think is holding back the development of the team and is the main reason our defensive game is soo poor - it's unbelieveable Rodgers fail to see how incompetent he is at dictating our game from the holding position.

Our back for wasn't really tested that much but I must say Moreno looks way overestimated. Very dodgy in his positional game while offering nothing going forward. Enrique's had what, 2 starts since last November. He brings so much more experience and quality going forward. Manquillo I like though.

2 very tricky fixtures coming up. If you offer it I'll take 4 points from them.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2014, 02:17:43 PM
During our run in the second half of the season we had one obvious over-riding problem to sort out in the Summer - the whole defensive side of our game. Adding/changing personnel can only ever be a part of the problem.

Then, unsurprisingly, Suarez leaves - priority no2.

Adding depth to the squad was the third and a very distant third.

Adding numbers has to be done over a period of time, carefully. IMHO, it's best done by upgrading the weakest two or three positions in the first 11 each year (you may get one extra addition in the Winter window, if lucky). The upgraded player becoming cover/competition, and the previous cover/competition can add depth (depending on a few variables), or be sold.

Depth can also be added by bringing in 'potential' from the Under-21s, but whichever way, it's a long known fact that you try to avoid making too many changes in personnel in one go, to the first team, or favoured core of 14/15 players from which the starting 11 is usually chosen.

So priority one, was likely to require at least one personnel change - left back being the obvious as the weakest position, though only just ahead of right back. It could/should also require a tweak in the playing method, and very possibly the addition of a new midfielder into the starting 11 also.

Priority two was definitely going to require two players, as it was impossible to find goals, chance creation and sheer effort/workrate and 'will to win', all from one player.

Rodgers has come out and stated that the signing of multiple players was part of a long standing plan, however, that in itself ignores the poor defensive performance between the start of his reign and the formulation of the plan.
To then carry on 'regardless', ignoring the two obvious priorities that arose during and just after the last season, is just pure negligence.

Just like we weren't going to make up the goal difference in the Palace game and priority was therefore simply get the three points, we can't bring our squad up to 20-22 top class players + 3 'up and comers' in one or two windows, so addressing the two priorities and therewithin strengthening the first 11, by definition, also strengthens the squad, but in the most sustainable and consistent way.   
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2014, 02:39:22 PM
Doubled our clean sheet record for the season. Rodgers, the new defensive minded manager. Sack him. We don't want Houllier style turgid football.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on October 26, 2014, 02:42:38 PM
Would you trust him with any more of the club's money?

Do we have any more to spend without selling first?

Can we handle trying to integrate any more players?

Unfortunately our need is probably the complete opposite to the answers to those 3 questions.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 26, 2014, 06:42:30 PM
very true. Ed.

But I have always despised the notion though of a Director of Football.

I do not want it, ever.
Absolutely, the only reason I mention it is because
his reign has to be viewed from the point of view
that he refused to work under a DF.

Those big decisions on signings (amongst other things),
he can't make 'em.

Fortress Anfield? There was a 20 minute spell in the game
vs Real where they surgically removed our liver with no
anesthetic.

The trick is Rodgers provides the anesthetic in the post
match interview.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 26, 2014, 06:47:30 PM
Do we have any more to spend without selling first?

Can we handle trying to integrate any more players?

Unfortunately our need is probably the complete opposite to the answers to those 3 questions.
The whole thing reminds me of the years post Dalglish's
first spell as manager when we were always signing players
that seemed good on paper.

We'd sign someone and gradually the impact of the player faded
but not before the thrill of another new signing arrived.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2014, 02:14:54 AM
Those big decisions on signings (amongst other things),
he can't make 'em.

Fortress Anfield? There was a 20 minute spell in the game
vs Real where they surgically removed our liver with no
anesthetic.

The trick is Rodgers provides the anesthetic in the post
match interview.

agreed.

but I suspect an element of the fans will catch Rodgers on, before the owners do.

Without Suarez, Rodgers is shown for the snake-oil-salesman that he always was.

Tell you what - the usual f.u.kwits slabber endlessly about Gerrard being world class. 

Suarez was genuinely world class......and look at how such a top player can transform a club.

Gerrard isn't fit to lace his boots.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2014, 02:19:59 AM
To then carry on 'regardless', ignoring the two obvious priorities that arose during and just after the last season, is just pure negligence.

Just like we weren't going to make up the goal difference in the Palace game and priority was therefore simply get the three points, we can't bring our squad up to 20-22 top class players + 3 'up and comers' in one or two windows, so addressing the two priorities and there within strengthening the first 11, by definition, also strengthens the squad, but in the most sustainable and consistent way.   

absolutely.

we don't seem to have any master plan.

we are always linked with wide players.

we are destined to always be a club in transition.......but if you give the guru long enough, he will get us to the mountain top......only of course, it is always just over the next ridge.

I wonder how long before he starts to go on about keeping the faith.  That was Houllier's fall-back excuse in the final 18 months.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 27, 2014, 07:24:32 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/26/1414347804502_wps_37_Manchester_United_v_Chels.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/26/1414346596699_wps_3_epa04464957_Manchester_Un.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/26/1414346759445_wps_6_epa04464956_Manchester_Un.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/26/1414346606297_wps_4_Chelsea_s_Branislav_Ivano.jpg)

It's just about impossible to get a penalty at the Stretford End.

Unless you get shot by Lee Harvey Oswald in that penalty area, and have a doctor's letter to verify it, you will never get a penalty.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on October 28, 2014, 01:15:15 AM
Without Suarez, Rodgers is shown for the snake-oil-salesman that he always was.
Brendan was very happy to meet Carlo Ancelotti:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/best-face-brendan-rodgers-ever-4485601

I'm sure he was happier, still, that Real took the foot off the accelerator
in the 2nd half, enabling him to cite a tremendous improvement by us in the
2nd half... ::)

Of course when Rafa Benitez met Carlo Ancelotti and was 3 - 0 down at
half-time to a Milan side packed with stars there was a different response
in the second half which led to us winning a trophy:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x106qzm_make-us-dream_sport

Rafa was interested in a result & a trophy!

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2014, 09:32:27 PM
 :D

yes, funny picture of our guru meeting Ancellotti.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2014, 09:38:41 PM
swansea lead one nil.

we have been, as usual, impotent.

The Swansea goal, a dink over the top, and a volley on the dropping ball, raises major questions.

Who is our number 6 - Lovren?  FFS The ball was dropping out of the air, Lovren had to make a fu.king effort to anticipate that their guy would volley it.   Lovren didn't even make an effort.  He didn't even run.  A mere canter, with no effort to close the chance down.

If I were boss, I would substitute him immediately after the goal.

Not good enough.  Not remotely near good enough.

Ah well, never fear.  On comes Balotelli.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2014, 09:43:46 PM
1-1

cometh the hour, cometh the man

 :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on October 28, 2014, 10:06:01 PM
we win 2-1

we were woeful.

but we won because swansea were even more woeful than us.

our scorers, balotelli and lovren are nowhere near good enough to play for Liverpool FC......that tells you all you need to know.

The lad that impressed me, was (as usual) Countinho.  I just wish we had had another year or two of Suarez at the club, to have helped Countinho's development.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on October 31, 2014, 09:47:16 AM

Here's hoping Gerrard does not get a new contract!

http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/9541787/Premier-League-Steven-Gerrard-could-leave-Liverpool-in-summer-to-further-playing-career (http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/9541787/Premier-League-Steven-Gerrard-could-leave-Liverpool-in-summer-to-further-playing-career)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 01, 2014, 02:33:16 PM
Another calamity in defence, gifts the opposition the goal (and win).  Rather than hack it into row Z, Moreno dawdles.  I wonder who demanded no hoofing when under extreme pressure?

Brendan was the name in the envelope.

The sooner he leaves, the better.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 01, 2014, 03:08:11 PM
In his after-match-sermon to the masses, Brent reckons:

"It was a game we had almost full control of."

"We passed the ball well and had good options in front of the ball."
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 01, 2014, 04:06:32 PM
God awful game to watch...2 teams out of sorts...no bright light in any of our players...we're gonna get thrashed by Real who don't have a barca match following and so will go for the kill at home...and then we have chelsea...oh joy!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 01, 2014, 04:15:53 PM
"It was a game we had almost full control of."

"We passed the ball well and had good options in front of the ball."
Scary watching their goal, before and after the block
by Moreno.

Being pushed back so easily in the lead up

I credit Moreno for making the initial interception 'cos
the lad was in on goal otherwise but...

Very soft to give Pérez a shot (granted he was very alert!).

It's not really the individual error, if you could even call
it that, of Moreno, more the collective weakness most
likely beginning out there with Johnson.

It just doesn't function as a strong unit.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 01, 2014, 04:23:17 PM
In terms of defensive stability this was probably our best game of the season. If it wasn't for that overrated Moreno we probably wouldn't have lost. No, our problems lies elsewhere. We're utterly and completley unable to threaten in the opposite direction. I feel for Balotello who gets no support and forward energy from out of sorts players like Henderson and Sterling.

Speaking of which I think it was fornicating criminal to take our best player Allen off and leave that overhyped, incompetent and pretty much worthless piece of shed Henderson on. He's so poor it's unbelieveable. NEVER chose the forward direction, ALWAYS chose to turn home making us increasingly predictable.

I very very much question Rodgers decision to allow an out of sorts Sterling start the 2nd half. I very very much question Rodgers decision to start Henderson at all. I very very much question whether Rodgers have the capacity to learn anything. Finally I question very very much Rodgers decision to stick with his inep, worthless fornicating 4-2-3-1 or what the fork it's called when the team so desperately need a formation from which they can build confidence. But no, Rodgers have seen the light and the light is 4-2-3-1. No matter the fornicating fact the entire world can see this very formation just isn't working for us, let alone suits us.

I hereby state my belief we'll finish no better than 8th. I also think it's fair to say Rodgers lost his head after last season's success, which also means he lost the humility I liked so much with him. Just like Benitez he's stuck in stubborness playing the wrong players in the wrong formation.

This means with 95% probability we'll lose 3 on the bounce.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 01, 2014, 05:18:13 PM
In terms of defensive stability this was probably our best game of the season.
Jesus, watch the f**king goal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPnb-peUuk4

Watch the Newcastle lad pick the ball up on the wing just
past midfield.

Look at his confidence.

Watch the guy coming on the overlap.

See the casual nature of our retreat, to the point where there's 6 in the box,
but Newcastle are still picking passes?

You focus on Moreno?

The danger starts as soon as the guy picks up the ball on the wing.

There is opportunity after opportunity missed for us to pressure and do the most
basic thing in football - put in a tackle.

I call that a shambles personally.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 01, 2014, 05:44:55 PM
Two words - Dirk Kuyt.

A balanced side, the attacking winger knows his defensive duties and
that goal never happens.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 01, 2014, 05:56:44 PM
Jesus, watch the f**king goal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPnb-peUuk4

Watch the Newcastle lad pick the ball up on the wing just
past midfield.

Look at his confidence.

Watch the guy coming on the overlap.

See the casual nature of our retreat, to the point where there's 6 in the box,
but Newcastle are still picking passes?

You focus on Moreno?

The danger starts as soon as the guy picks up the ball on the wing.

There is opportunity after opportunity missed for us to pressure and do the most
basic thing in football - put in a tackle.

I call that a shambles personally.

It's very easy, of course, to single out a situation spanning over 15 seconds pinpointing every fault that eventually led up to the goal. I was talking attitude, balance, cohesion and such stuff. As far as the goal itself goes I guess you can analyse any goal being scored throughout the league this season and pinpoint where things Went wrong. But beside the goal they hardly threatened us all game which is a rarity the way I see it and thus a step forward. I'm not in this place to beat down on everything just to get a case against Rodgers. He has his flaws. Whether he can rectify them remains to be seen but I ain't calling for his head just yet.

To lay the blame for Moreno's shortcomings at Rodgers is unfair (besides playing him of course, but with Enrique injured...). The lad just isn't good enough and I can't for the world understand the hype that surrounds him. He's making Djimi looking like a solid LB ffs..
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 01, 2014, 05:57:52 PM
Two words - Dirk Kuyt.

A balanced side, the attacking winger knows his defensive duties and
that goal never happens.

But Dirk is like 34 or something.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 01, 2014, 06:37:31 PM
It's very easy, of course, to single out a situation spanning over 15 seconds pinpointing every fault that eventually led up to the goal.
But sure they're the most important 15 seconds in the game?

Listen, you have Suarez in the side, teams are nervous and you
can get away with shoddiness at the back because the teams
are wary of pushing extra men forward from the back.

Without Suarez, these things make the difference.

You simply can't afford to let the opposition waltz deep into your
territory with intent and expect to get away with it away from
home.

It's collective failure, failure of the system and sure Pardew knew
these weaknesses, I can hear him in the dressing room hammering
the point into the full back about the overlap and Glen Johnson &
telling the other lad about the space behind Moreno.

Most likely there are other blatantly obvious ways to get a goal against
us that anyone with video-player could figure out. It's why we concede
so many.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 01, 2014, 07:56:13 PM
No coincidence that we looked better when Borini came on.

Yes he's not very good but he offers movement and energy up front and works well with Balotelli.

We need to change back into a diamond formation because not only as per above but this allows Sterling to play at the tip of the diamond.

Overall it was a poor performance with individual mistakes costing us again.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 01, 2014, 08:06:51 PM
Ultimately, the problem is that we are not scoring goals.

If we were scoring goals, then the conceding of a goal up at Newcastle is no massive deal (after all we are away from home, so it is almost to be expected that they will score).

But let's not be forget, Newcastle despite a recent upturn, are a team that are not playing well.

They sell their top assets, bank the money, and spend peanuts on a replacement from Timbuktwo.

I felt that Rodgers had to get a result today - most likely he needed to win.

BECAUSE, we will most likely get beaten in our next two games.....at Madrid, and then when we play Chelsea.

If we get beaten badly enough, then Rodgers job is very much on the line.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 01, 2014, 08:18:30 PM
I took a look in to the RAWK (redandwhitekop) forum, after the game.

A fair few fans are now starting to see the light re Rodgers.

Has there ever been a manager so badly shown up, for how poor they are, when a single player has left their club?

Without Suarez, Brendan looks like barely a pub-side manager.   

I reckon he wouldn't even be fit to lace Big Sam Allardyce's in-stadium headset intercom system.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 01, 2014, 08:46:36 PM
I took a look in to the RAWK (redandwhitekop) forum, after the game.
They seem to a quite malcontent-ed bunch over there
for some reason today  ;D

And these are only from the first two pages of a 35 page thread
on today's game.

And I've been giving Rodgers the most enthusiastic support and
benefit of the doubt, but as soon as he goes back to playing his 'philosophy'
of football, we look like a 6-8th placed side again.

fork me that was the worst iv seen us under Brendan!

What has happened? We'll be lucky to finish top 10 at this rate

Turgid fornicating shine-a-light.


Rodgers got it wrong again


Some incredibly average players in our team, and they don't look arsed at all.

Awful play, awful tactics, awful signings. Not much more needs to be said.

Unacceptable, Brendan has a lot of work to do. Sort it out!!

Cowardly tactics.

Sort it out Brendan. That was fornicating dire.

Worst performance since the Hodgson era.....


Brendan entirely responsible for today's result.
Got his tactics completely wrong and it's not the first time this season.

can't wait for the positive brigade to come out and defend that dross

Don't let the door hit you on the way out Rodgers.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 01, 2014, 09:00:10 PM
 :D

yes, one suspects that the RAWK moderators will have their work cut out over the weekend, to keep all the posters in line.  There may be a fair few posters suspended or banned.

And I noted in one of the major newspapers tonight, in their match report, they also made reference to fans being very annoyed in the Liverpool forums.

I think the game is up for Brendan. 

With Suarez leaving, Brendan needed to try to continue to hide (or mask) his own inabilities, by bringing in this summer, another top goal scorer.   Lambert and Balotelli were never going to be near good enough. 

Indeed, I suspect that Balotelli's signing will ultimately cost the Ulsterman his job.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 02, 2014, 12:04:51 AM
You're all gonna go IS on me but I would challenge you all by saying we actually turned a corner today. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am this was the best defensive display of the season. We didn't play as far up as we usually do thus helping the team staying short. As Dude was saying above the actual goal wasn't where we lost the game but rather our inability to threat at the other end. I'm not singing Rodgers praise here nor am I lauding the team but I really believe in the old saying you have to start building at the back.

It is therefore a tad unfortunate we play two of the strongest teams in Europe during the next 7 days. But it also represent a chance to build on what we started today. I think a tweak here and there (switching to the diamond formation as Edward suggest) might be enough to find some much needed structure and stability from which confidence and cohesion can start to grow. It's also important that Rodgers play both Sterling and Henderson sparingly from now on, albeit for different reasons.

We may lose both our next games but that isn't important. Rather the manner in which we do it is all that counts for me. After the break, given we can build on our defensive display of today, we have a good chance to go on a good run.

Am I the only one to think we actually kept one of the formteam's at bay at their place in a way we haven't all season?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 02, 2014, 12:24:08 AM
I would challenge you all by saying we actually turned a corner today.
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am this was the best
defensive display of the season.
Yeah those mountains in the distance are the back 4 and central
midfield which Santa is buying us for Christmas.

(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/200/d/b/over_the_hills_and_far_away_by_jaikart-d57usdf.jpg)

Unfortunately it's the pansies in red in the foreground which
represent the defensive capabilities of the men in red we have
at the club at the moment.   :P
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 02, 2014, 10:22:12 AM
 :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 02, 2014, 07:27:18 PM
Considering our defensive displays thus far this season Martin may not be far wrong!

Adapt or die as the saying goes. Brendan has to adapt his tactics and adapt the players to suit their strengths. Or this will only go one way.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 03, 2014, 01:36:32 PM
Trouble at mill.

You know, I do wonder, with the utter lack of industry among the players, if the team have lost all confidence in Rodgers.

Might they perhaps, have eventually seen through his utter b.u.ll.s.hit.e

Last season they ran around like their lives depended on it (no doubt inspired by King Luis). 

But this season, since the wheels came off the bus, they have been ambling around at their leisure, smoking a spliff, scratching their a..rs.es and saying "hey man, what's da rush, man?"
 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 04, 2014, 07:20:21 PM
Teams about to come out in Madrid.

Rodgers team is:

Liverpool: Mignolet, Moreno, Toure, Skrtel, Manquillo, Can, Lucas, Lallana, Allen, Markovic, Borini.

Subs: Brad Jones, Johnson, Gerrard, Coutinho, Henderson, Sterling, Balotelli.

I think Rodgers has lost it.

This Liverpool eleven could get absolutely routed tonight.  And I mean hammered.  Depends of course on whether Madrid play at their main level, or treat it like a training session.

Has Rodgers entirely given up on tonight's game, even before it has been played, and/or given up on the group itself?

Mignolet is gonna be a busy man tonight.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 04, 2014, 07:36:14 PM
What a complete shithouse move. Basically Brendan has admitted that we can't get a result here and has rested our best players and most influential players. 5 years ago we were coming to these sort of grounds fearless and thought we could beat anyone. Now we have basically said fork it, we can't win lets give everyone a rest and have a morale damaged even more before a huge game at the weekend.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 04, 2014, 08:18:44 PM
What a complete shithouse move. Basically Brendan has admitted that we can't get a result here and has rested our best players and most influential players. 5 years ago we were coming to these sort of grounds fearless and thought we could beat anyone. Now we have basically said fork it, we can't win lets give everyone a rest and have a morale damaged even more before a huge game at the weekend.
It's what you call a small club mentality creeping in.

Something you'd expect from the manager of Burnley.

Sometimes in football, there's the mythic thing, essence.
We are LFC and bow to no one.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 04, 2014, 09:44:03 PM
I criticise and now I give credit where due. Brendan chose carefully players with high energy and players with good ball retention. I was particularly impressed with Moreno and Can. I loved Toure's energy and fight plus overall the players showed determination and grit. True Madrid didn't come out of 2nd gear but we can only go on what we saw.

We lacked composure in the opposition half though which let us down.

So credit where it is due.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 04, 2014, 09:49:27 PM
If Johnson and Lovren get back into the team I'll cry.

Kolo showed in 90 minutes more leadership and great mentality that Lovren has in 3 odd months with us.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 04, 2014, 10:48:59 PM
If Johnson and Lovren get back into the team I'll cry.

Kolo showed in 90 minutes more leadership and great mentality that Lovren has in 3 odd months with us.

Indeed he did.

I'm gonna stick my head out yet again and maintain this was another step forward. On Saturday we saw our best defensive display of the season, and tonight I watched the best performance our central midfield have displayed this season. The passing was crisp for large parts of the game and so was the energy, urgency and fighting spirit. I take a lot of positives from this game and really, really hope we can build on it against Chelsea.

Markovic, though, it has to be said was a disastrous call. I really feel for the kid but he just ain't up to it. Moreno had a cracking game. I also think Can, Allen and Lallana showed up for this one.

Still don't think Sterling has done enough to merit a start on Saturday. He's increasingly passive. lacklustre and predictable in almost Everything he does. His judgment is also quite poor as he keeps losing possession in dangerous areas. Cred must also go to Lucas who did a fantastic job and actually provided leadership for a change.

Switch Lucas for Gerrard and Borini for Balotelli, keep the rest of the team unchanged and there you have a starting line up that could get us a result against Chelsea.

Come on you Redmen!!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 04, 2014, 11:20:34 PM
We need to change back into a diamond formation because not only as per above but this allows Sterling to play at the tip of the diamond.

Nail. Head. Bosh.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 04, 2014, 11:24:00 PM
I took a look in to the RAWK (redandwhitekop) forum, after the game.

A fair few fans are now starting to see the light re Rodgers.


Rodgers is well and truly doomed if the strait jacket that is RAWK is anything less than holding out their tongues for the sweat from under our manager's (any manager of our's) armpit.  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 04, 2014, 11:26:34 PM
You're all gonna go IS on me but I would challenge you all by saying we actually turned a corner today.

Please, not corners. I still have a morbid fear of them after Houllier.   ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 04, 2014, 11:33:09 PM
Still don't think Sterling has done enough to merit a start on Saturday.

Sterling looks so much better when he's got the likes of Sturridge, Coutinho, Suarez buzzing off him. They help him perform at another level and he helps them (to a degree). Any player would struggle to look good with Borini as a colleague.

I think there are still a few dips over the next 18-24 months to come from Sterling yet. He's still a very young player and man. He'll be fine.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 04, 2014, 11:34:07 PM
If Johnson and Lovren get back into the team I'll cry.

Kolo showed in 90 minutes more leadership and great mentality that Lovren has in 3 odd months with us.

Agreed. We had King Kolo out there tonight, not Kolo the clown from last season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 04, 2014, 11:39:25 PM
I'm gonna stick my head out yet again and maintain this was another step forward.

In the second half. Once we stopped the first half's panicky hoofed clearances, and attempted to keep possession, we broke up their momentum and even built up some of our own.

We lack that focal point up front for the likes of Lallana and Sterling to play off. Markovic showed a few signs here and there, though at this stage of his career, putting a £20M price tag around his neck was the worse thing possible.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 05, 2014, 08:51:51 AM
Disbelief when i saw the line up. So we work hard all last season to get Champs league only to put out the reserve team? Considering Real were a bit lacklustre last night we might have even been able to get something from it. What about the players wanting to do their stuff on one of the worlds biggest stages? Sterling can play against Hull and in the Carling Cup but 20 mins against Real at the Bernabeu?
With a few tweaks like dropping Johnson, Lovren and getting Gerrard the hell out of defensive midfield, we could have showed a fairly decent fight. Borini plays but Balotelli doesnt?
Methinks there will be some pissed off players at Melwood this morning.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2014, 09:34:07 AM
Rodgers is well and truly doomed if the strait jacket that is RAWK is anything less than holding out their tongues for the sweat from under our manager's (any manager of our's) armpit.  :D

 :D

there will be show-trials held by the Beijing RAWK regime this week.

many have stepped out of line and questioned the master.   

Are you, or have you ever been, a member of the Church of the Latter-Day Dude (Dudeism)?

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2014, 09:49:44 AM
So let me get this right.

We were saving ourself last night, because we want to do well this weekend in the league, so that we can get a top four spot, so that we can qualify for next season's champions league??  Bizarre.

I can never recall, in my lifetime, ever flying the white flag of surrender before a game.   Goodness knows what Rafa would have felt, seeing our lineup last night in Madrid.  Even the bookies were in unchartered territory, offering 16/1 for Liverpool to get a win.

To me it looked like a Reading/Swansea level type boss, in charge of a club that has far higher expectations, than his abilities can deliver.  It was like Mike Bassett, England Manager.  Our lad was in waters that were way above his head - and he knew it.

It took us an hour to get a shot at Madrid.  Overall, Madrid had 25 shots, we had four.

Rodgers is close to the end of his time in charge at Anfield.  And he knows it.

What I wonder (and I mentioned this a few days ago), is whether he has (at this point) lost the confidence of the dressing room. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 05, 2014, 03:09:44 PM
So let me get this right.

We were saving ourself last night, because we want to do well this weekend in the league, so that we can get a top four spot, so that we can qualify for next season's champions league??  Bizarre.

I can never recall, in my lifetime, ever flying the white flag of surrender before a game.   Goodness knows what Rafa would have felt, seeing our lineup last night in Madrid.  Even the bookies were in unchartered territory, offering 16/1 for Liverpool to get a win.

To me it looked like a Reading/Swansea level type boss, in charge of a club that has far higher expectations, than his abilities can deliver.  It was like Mike Bassett, England Manager.  Our lad was in waters that were way above his head - and he knew it.

It took us an hour to get a shot at Madrid.  Overall, Madrid had 25 shots, we had four.

Rodgers is close to the end of his time in charge at Anfield.  And he knows it.

What I wonder (and I mentioned this a few days ago), is whether he has (at this point) lost the confidence of the dressing room. 
Good points Dude about Europe and the dressing room (Agger).

I don't think Fergie as manager of Aberdeen or Rafa
with Valencia would share his mindset. The whole thing
reminded me of when a dog is scared and submissively
pees in front of their owner.

I think he's panicking ahead of the Chelsea game?

If we lose that, we'll be 15 points behind them.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 05, 2014, 03:35:41 PM
So let me get this right.

We were saving ourself last night, because we want to do well this weekend in the league, so that we can get a top four spot, so that we can qualify for next season's champions league??  Bizarre.

I can never recall, in my lifetime, ever flying the white flag of surrender before a game.   Goodness knows what Rafa would have felt, seeing our lineup last night in Madrid.  Even the bookies were in unchartered territory, offering 16/1 for Liverpool to get a win.

To me it looked like a Reading/Swansea level type boss, in charge of a club that has far higher expectations, than his abilities can deliver.  It was like Mike Bassett, England Manager.  Our lad was in waters that were way above his head - and he knew it.

It took us an hour to get a shot at Madrid.  Overall, Madrid had 25 shots, we had four.

Rodgers is close to the end of his time in charge at Anfield.  And he knows it.

What I wonder (and I mentioned this a few days ago), is whether he has (at this point) lost the confidence of the dressing room.

Surely, you can do better than that, Dude? Rafa did this time and time again, although the other way round, to disastrous effect. You already made up your mind, and that's OK with me, but don't confuse that with how things actually are. For instance, your claim Rodgers is near the end of his time at Anfield us just wishful thinking. We both know he'll be here throughout the season.

I'm not here to defend Rodgers but in honesty I think it is only fair he tries something new to get the squad going for up til last night we were pretty fornicating far from OK thus far. Progression to the last 16 is still very much in our hands and in reality beating Ludogretz away (by no means an easy task) might be enough to see us needing a point at home to Basel to secure it.

All in all, I'm very much behind this "shake up", if that's what you want to call it. The important thing now for Rodgers, is to follow it up by starting some of the "reserves" on Saturday after a splendid performance last night. I would name Toure, Borini and Can, besides the rest of the back 4. It would also make Rodgers stand out as a credible man having tits like Linker eating humble pie en masse. At the same time if Henderson and Sterling starts he may well live to regret this decision.

I'm not sure whether we'll get a result against the Chavs or not, but I do know Rodgers have done what he can to create a siege mentality, a refusal to be the clowns if you like.

Being realistic me too realise he's playing a high risk game here where a heavy defeat might haunt him for months.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 05, 2014, 06:48:08 PM
Agreed Martin ultimately only time will tell on this issue.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 05, 2014, 07:13:54 PM
Surely, you can do better than that, Dude? Rafa did this time and time again, although the other way round, to disastrous effect.

(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1208/pg2_2005liverpool_576.jpg)

Call me a masochist.

But I would like to see more of Rafa doing "this time and time again" to "disastrous effects"

 ;)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 06, 2014, 01:51:38 AM
(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/67/590x/David-Moyes-and-Louis-van-Gaal-compared-531328.jpg)

David Moyes has a better record at Man Utd than Van Gaal.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 06, 2014, 11:09:12 AM
(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1208/pg2_2005liverpool_576.jpg)

Call me a masochist.

But I would like to see more of Rafa doing "this time and time again" to "disastrous effects"

 ;)

That's cheap even for you!  :P
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 06, 2014, 11:10:53 AM
(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/67/590x/David-Moyes-and-Louis-van-Gaal-compared-531328.jpg)

David Moyes has a better record at Man Utd than Van Gaal.

Indeed intruiging stats that. Give it another 10 games and I fear the balance has shifted to LFV's advantage.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 06, 2014, 06:43:38 PM
That's cheap even for you!  :P

 ;)

Martin, you'll not thank me for this.  But there is an article today in the Daily Star linking Rafa with a move back to Anfield (replacing Rodgers).  The bookies have Rafa as the top bet - he is 6/1

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 06, 2014, 06:47:32 PM
Indeed intruiging stats that. Give it another 10 games and I fear the balance has shifted to LFV's advantage.

I dunno.

His fortunes will improve at Old Trafford.    But I said it several times since Fergie left......that it does not matter who replaces Fergie, because he was a one-off and is irreplaceable.

The United era of total dominance is over. 

And the scary thing is, they have went out and spent a boat-load of money on these new players.   And they were already in many hundreds of millions of debt.

If United fail to make the top 4 this season, we are going to see very interesting times ahead.

But to force United out of that top 4, LIVERPOOL need to get their finger out.....and soon.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 06, 2014, 08:07:09 PM
If United fail to make the top 4 this season, we are going to see very interesting times ahead.

But to force United out of that top 4, LIVERPOOL need to get their finger out.....and soon.
Van Gaal is a slow starter. They're a massive club and
can afford to throw money around in search of a solution.

We on the other hand spent £120 million and appear to have
very little to show for it.

Idiots in the press and Rodgers talk about performance now
in games. It's plain and simple a results business. Real have
12 points and top the group. I think we have 3 and
will be 15 behind Chelsea if we lose Saturday.

Performance is what small clubs talk about, results is what big clubs are about.

Sure, Rodgers has time yet to turn it round this season, every
manager (except maybe Roy Hodgson) is entitled to that but if a
manager goes out and spends £120 million in the transfer business,
they're aren't any excuses and who in their right mind would give
him another £120 million come the Summer.

So he has made his bed and we expect results.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 06, 2014, 10:39:00 PM
Van Gaal is a slow starter. They're a massive club and
can afford to throw money around in search of a solution.

We on the other hand spent £120 million and appear to have
very little to show for it.

Idiots in the press and Rodgers talk about performance now
in games. It's plain and simple a results business. Real have
12 points and top the group. I think we have 3 and
will be 15 behind Chelsea if we lose Saturday.

Performance is what small clubs talk about, results is what big clubs are about.

Sure, Rodgers has time yet to turn it round this season, every
manager (except maybe Roy Hodgson) is entitled to that but if a
manager goes out and spends £120 million in the transfer business,
they're aren't any excuses and who in their right mind would give
him another £120 million come the Summer.

So he has made his bed and we expect results.

I agree in large parts with that Ed but I wonder whether it's fair to say it's Rodgers alone who spwent on a shopping Spree? I thought it was this transfer committee?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 07, 2014, 07:59:08 PM
I think it is fair to say no player would be signed without the say so of Brendan.

The biggest failure so far is Lovren and that was a player Brendan definitely wanted.

The one player that we don't really know is Balotelli whether Brendan ultimately really desired him or if the committee pushed that signing through.

I can say that Lovren, Moreno and Lallana are definite players than Brendan wanted.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 07, 2014, 08:04:31 PM
I think it is fair to say no player would be signed without the say so of Brendan.

The biggest failure so far is Lovren and that was a player Brendan definitely wanted.

The one player that we don't really know is Balotelli whether Brendan ultimately really desired him or if the committee pushed that signing through.

I can say that Lovren, Moreno and Lallana are definite players than Brendan wanted.

Agreed those three are nobrainers. Sakho's a different story though. Arguably the best CB with the ball at his feet since Jockey became a role model for a young lad like meself. He never ever really got a chance IMHO. Even my Manc mate is gobsmacked at the fact we don't rate him.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 07, 2014, 08:17:08 PM
King Kenny hits it nail on.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/brendan-rodgers-lot-right-against-4587241 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/brendan-rodgers-lot-right-against-4587241)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 07, 2014, 08:40:26 PM
King Kenny hits it nail on.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/brendan-rodgers-lot-right-against-4587241 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/brendan-rodgers-lot-right-against-4587241)

The Dalglish backing is fatal for Rodgers.

Dalglish spent 35 million on Andy Carroll and went on to claim:

"Andy's done fantastically well getting back to where he has, with his application and dedication.
Whatever Andy has done, he has done it very well, and somebody else's opinion is up to them.
But he cannot be criticised in any way, shape or form for what he has done since he has been at Liverpool."
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 07, 2014, 09:28:01 PM
The Dalglish backing is fatal for Rodgers.

Dalglish spent 35 million on Andy Carroll and went on to claim:

"Andy's done fantastically well getting back to where he has, with his application and dedication.
Whatever Andy has done, he has done it very well, and somebody else's opinion is up to them.
But he cannot be criticised in any way, shape or form for what he has done since he has been at Liverpool."

But is Rory Smith's balanced and highly intellectual  analysis of the current state to his advantage? This is arguably one of the best pieces I ever read.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why-rodgers-struggling-and-where-it-has-gone-wrong-liverpool (http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why-rodgers-struggling-and-where-it-has-gone-wrong-liverpool)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 07, 2014, 10:06:03 PM
Good link Marx.

As we know the gaffer is not to my taste but, I
love the idea of a comeback.

Besides you can only really judge a manager when
the screws start turning. He took a gamble with
Madrid and it sort of has to pay off for him tomorrow.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 08, 2014, 09:37:04 AM
Good link Marx.

As we know the gaffer is not to my taste but, I
love the idea of a comeback.

Besides you can only really judge a manager when
the screws start turning. He took a gamble with
Madrid and it sort of has to pay off for him tomorrow.

Comeback as in comeback from the nadir he's currently in? Or did you have another fella in mind?  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 08, 2014, 12:18:59 PM
Liverpool starting line-up:

Liverpool XI vs Chelsea: Mignolet, Johnson, Skrtel, Lovren, Moreno, Gerrard, Can, Henderson, Coutinho, Sterling, Balotelli

Rodgers blows it by starting Coutinho, Sterling and Henderson. Should've been Lallana, Borini and Allen.

Liverpool 1 - 4 Chelsea.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 08, 2014, 12:23:25 PM
Lovren and Johnson start. FFS!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 08, 2014, 01:29:37 PM
1-1

but this is embarrassing.

chelsea are playing us off the pitch

they are making chances for fun

they are coming forward in endless raids

there are times when we can't get out of our own half....hell, we can't even get out of our final quarter

this is embarrassing at anfield

we are totally disorganised......players colliding with each other, players out of position, etc

it's jumpers for goalposts.......headless chicken stuff......you'd see more organisation in a bowl of dust.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on November 08, 2014, 01:36:46 PM
Gerrard has NO pace at all.  Henderson does'nt look like the player he was for us last season.  The team is not functioning as a team.  We will get ripped I the second half if we keep giving them the ball.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 08, 2014, 01:38:00 PM
yes, Gerrard needs to be playing in the north american league.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 08, 2014, 02:00:50 PM
why are we taking half a dozen touches this season.

sterling needs to be far more decisive, instead of taking far too many touches.

against top opponents, you need to be quick.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on November 08, 2014, 02:02:35 PM
We are the masters of playing the ball back n forth at the back.  People pay to watch this???

Loren has the ball in fron of him......tries to chip it over Costa who wins it back.  Crikey!  This is unreal!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 08, 2014, 02:36:31 PM
highly predictable stuff.

chelsea go in front, and it is impossible to break them down

Thus, for any non-rocket scientists in the anfield dugout, KEEP THE FECKEN GAME TIGHT.

But no, David Brent, in his primary schoolyard tactics, says 'ok everyone, jumpers for goalposts'

Really, I think Rodgers should go, and go ASAP.

We have a Reading/Swansea level manager in charge of a top european club. 

Time to bring in someone of the level that we need.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 08, 2014, 02:51:52 PM
Chelsea the better team by far. How on earth Can was subbed and neither Henderson nor Gerrard were I'll never know. Balotelli is also a disgrace. Being offside once or twice I can understand but continuously is unacceptable. Chelsea's game management in incredible though. I can see them going undefeated all season.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 08, 2014, 04:58:15 PM
Comeback as in comeback from the nadir he's currently in? Or did you have another fella in mind?  :D
Expecting to lose is never a great mentality to have in football (midweek),
it's what distinguishes the small clubs from the big. You lose the aura and
other clubs are watching.

If I was seeing draws against Madrid and home to Chelsea there might
be hope of a recovery, but we've been down this road so many times
before in November, December.

Gradually expectations drop so low that vague performance measures
begin to seep in and become the new success, as the grander prizes fade
in the distance - shed like beating United, developing young players and
everyone understanding the principles...

I have a hunch that we may get to the final of the Capital One Cup this season.
What can be salvaged from the rest of it, we'll have to wait and see (It's football,
anything can happen).

you'd see more organisation in a bowl of dust.
;D

& our Title challenge was blown away as easily as a
handful of dust, scattered into the 75 million pieces we
sold Suarez for
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 08, 2014, 05:48:58 PM
So Toure plays a blinder on tuesday and effectively keeps Ronaldo quiet and then gets dropped for Chelsea...
Manquillo also played well, and bloody johnson is back...Playing Johnson is quite simply a crime. What Manquillo must think is beyond me...
Lucas also had a solid game, nope no sign there..
While that defence kept out Real Madrid mostly on tuesday night....Chelsea's first goal was a joke...almost keystone kop/harold lloyd in its inadequacy...

And as for the rest of it? One shot on target in the second half i think,
the insistence to play one striker to fill his team full of his midfield buys is a joke...

I don't want Rodgers anywhere near the football club to waste anymore money in January...
i don't think he's capable to get us to the next stage of the Champs league and so i think that will be the best time to say goodbye...

Rodgers out.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 08, 2014, 09:35:03 PM
Nearing the point where I will turn on Rodgers. This was a disaster from a managerial point of view. For a change Coutinho looked like he could actually threat the opposition - lets take him off. Can was playing the best I've seen in a holding position this season - best take him off and keep that fornicating tit Henderson who-didn't-have-a-fornicating-pass-correct-all-game-on. Let's keep the overrated and overused Sterling on, no reason to bring one of the most creative players we have when he's doing fork all.

This isn't a step backwards. This is the end of Liverpool's dreams of ever establishing itself as a top team. From now on we ARE the new Villa, Newcy, Spurs what fornicating have you.

I'm not even Close to bitter, just resignant. Am considering taking a break for a year or two from footy.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 08, 2014, 09:52:16 PM
This is the end of Liverpool's dreams of ever establishing itself as a top team. From now on we ARE the new Villa, Newcy, Spurs what fornicating have you.
There's a lot of truth in those words.

Put simply, we seem to have no competitive advantage
in any of the myriad of key areas of the club anymore.

The one competitive advantage we had in Suarez, we sold.

It's unclear to me as yet whether the season has turned
into a salvage operation or whether there is still hope in
the CL and Capital One Cup (Balotelli wins final?). If those
remaining pins start falling, season may be over by Christmas.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 08, 2014, 09:55:15 PM
Martin, sorry to hear of your depression.  These are difficult times.  I fully empathise.

I say, come join me, as we start our campaign for the Return of Rafa.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 08, 2014, 11:42:13 PM
Martin, sorry to hear of your depression.  These are difficult times.  I fully empathise.

I say, come join me, as we start our campaign for the Return of Rafa.

 :D :D :D

Thing though mate is you know as well as I do that ain't the way forward. It never happened in footy bar Mourinho returning to Chelsea but he left as a winner and returned as one. This shed goes deeper. I hate this fucin transfer committee. I makes accountability impossible. You can't blame Rodgers for the signing because it was the committe's decision, at the same time he had a big say for sure.

As you said Dude they were outbattling us all over the pitch. They're so good it's hard to take and the different ways these two teams have developed since they last played is depressing beyond belief. I really thought Rodgers was the man but realise tonight he ain't. Nothing can get us back on track now. It's gonna get nasty over the next couple of weeks and how Toure feels tonight I don't want to know. The same goes for Lallana and Allen (who again was brilliant when he came on).

This one killed our season. We have four games coming up against "relegation fodder". I can see us get 5 points tops.

I still like Balotelli. He'd be good for us if played to his strengths, i.e., in a 4-4-2 formation. But no, I'm gonna show the world I could tame him seems to be Rodgers take on it rather than allowing him to be Mario and thus a player who really could help us. I COULD'VE fornicating TOLD YOU IN AUGUST HE'S GONNA BE A MISFIT IF PLAYED AS A LONE STRIKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So fornicating off!!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 08, 2014, 11:44:58 PM
There's a lot of truth in those words.

Put simply, we seem to have no competitive advantage
in any of the myriad of key areas of the club anymore.

The one competitive advantage we had in Suarez, we sold.

It's unclear to me as yet whether the season has turned
into a salvage operation or whether there is still hope in
the CL and Capital One Cup (Balotelli wins final?). If those
remaining pins start falling, season may be over by Christmas.

By Crimbo? You're starting to sound like that naive and rosetinted Martinmarx, FFS.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 09, 2014, 01:02:49 AM
By Crimbo? You're starting to sound like that naive and rosetinted Martinmarx, FFS.
;D

Cheer up Marx, it's easier if you step back from the
matches and I'm not saying that as a fairweather fan.
If I believe in the manager and team I'll tune in to
everything and watch all the games.

Used love watching Rafa's teams, so drilled and his
obsession with winning.

I doubt he'll be back unless he wins Serie A.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 09, 2014, 10:24:57 AM
;D

Cheer up Marx, it's easier if you step back from the
matches and I'm not saying that as a fairweather fan.
If I believe in the manager and team I'll tune in to
everything and watch all the games.

Used love watching Rafa's teams, so drilled and his
obsession with winning.

I doubt he'll be back unless he wins Serie A.

Am considering doing that for the first time ever as a way to look after my health. I'm not screaming and kicking like a spoilt child here, I don't carry unrealistic expectations. In fact I expected a slightly negative reaction to last season's overachievement fighting it out for 4th. But I never expected us to look this lost, to see Rodgers utterly and completely out of ideas, caught up in the same stubborness Rafa became the victim of. In essence, it's all gone and from here it's a process of, at the very least, 6-8 months before Tom and John catch up and realise they need to take the bitter pill of sacking the manager. It's back to square 1 again. With a new manager needing another 18-22 months to build his own team. So, all in all the next 3 seasons are pretty much a lost cause.

Rodgers may come good and be a successful manager in the future, it just won't be at Liverpool I fear.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 09, 2014, 11:51:07 AM
By Crimbo? You're starting to sound like that naive and rosetinted Martinmarx, FFS.


 :D :D :D Classic.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 09, 2014, 12:20:58 PM
In fact I expected a slightly negative reaction to last season's overachievement fighting it out for 4th.

Exactly. We took two giant strides forward last season, despite wearing the lead boots that are our defensive side. When you do that you normally need to take a small backward step to right your balance and equilibrium.

Challenging for top four, probably finishing third without seriously being in the title race would have been that step, whilst also dealing with the demands of the CL.

We look more like a clueless, legless drunk, and Rodgers is looking like his bluff has been called.

The players who performed so well in midweek get jettisoned for the normal underperformers, and they, err, underperform.

The more the hole, the more Rodgers keeps digging. The ego will crash land at the end of the season, and he'll have no excuses. He's been backed. He can't have any complaints there.

Compare how he's doing with how Koeman's doing with Southampton. They're all new players to him, and he to them. Then there are the new players to the remaining squad from last season. They've had a large turnover of players, we've just had a large influx.

He seems bereft of ideas. Plans B & C are 'more of plan'. He seems determined to prove something that is proving to be 'unproveable'.

He reminds me of a dog chasing it's tail, the harder it proves to catch, the more he tries.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 09, 2014, 07:39:59 PM
Compare how he's doing with how Koeman's doing with Southampton. They're all new players to him, and he to them. Then there are the new players to the remaining squad from last season. They've had a large turnover of players, we've just had a large influx.
Well fair play to Southampton, more power to them.

The bleakness (and it is pretty bleak if you look at the table,
with West Ham, Swansea and Southampton ahead of us) of
the matter is that incomprehensibly we gave Southampton
in the region of £50 million over the Summer and yet they are
11 points ahead of us!  :o

That's where I scratch my head and wonder if it's all a big joke.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 09, 2014, 09:13:25 PM
the notion was that in raiding Southampton of it's best players, we make ourselves stronger and them weaker.

But our Anfield rocket scientists, seem to have actually ridden Southampton of it's deadwood, thus making Liverpool weaker and Southampton stronger.

There are no flies on David Brent.

The problems always arise (with a poor manager) when things go wrong......because a poor manager has no idea how to rectify major problems.  And so we are with Brendan.  The lad is way out of his depth.

We sit on 14 points from 11 games.  We have lost five games.   Only 8 other clubs have conceded more goals.

We can't score goals.  And we cannot stop conceding goals.

This could be a long hard season.  My first target is 40 points.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 09, 2014, 09:30:59 PM
the notion was that in raiding Southampton of it's best players, we make ourselves stronger and them weaker.

But our Anfield rocket scientists, seem to have actually ridden Southampton of it's deadwood, thus making Liverpool weaker and Southampton stronger.
And this is where we arrive back at two key points:

Firstly, the Liverpool Way is sell Keegan, buy Dalglish.
We may not always have been the richest club but
had a competitive advantage in areas such as scouting:
Geoff Twentyman

So there no point in twittering away about the great traditions
of our club, fortress Anfield (more like White Flag Bernabéu)
and other PR nonsense, if we spend £50 million strengthening
Southampton FFS.

Point 2 is, why categorically refuse to work under a DoF, if
we subsequently spend £50 million strengthening Southampton FFS.

These are the great mysteries of Rodgers tenure.

Excuses? I'm sure the constraints under which the brave managers of
Southampton, West Ham (ok Fat Sham  ;D ) and Swansea work, make
us look like a bloated, clueless and spoilt enterprise.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 09, 2014, 10:35:42 PM
The whole of 12/13 season we were conceding 1.13 goals per game.

13/14 season up until the Stoke game where Gerrard played as a DM for the first time we were conceding 1.15 goals per game - pretty much the same as up till that point in the season.

Since that Gerrard played as DM in 29 games where we conceded 42 goals which is 1.45 goals per game.

As much as I hate to say it. Gerrard needs to be dropped.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 09, 2014, 11:44:40 PM
Yes, but unfortunately Rodgers doesn't seem to be the man to oversee his phasing out of the team, which will play a central role in him ultimately failing to reach the goals he set out when he took over. I completely misjudged this one. Really thought he could help us build a new identity, to be grandiose, a new era. But it won't happen.

If anything, he's gonna turn even more to Gerrard in search for answers. He need to accept any attempts at trying the already tried will see him get 7th at best. Better then, IMHO, to write this season off and use it to form a new team. First of all though, he needs to find a formation that helps the team regain its lost confidence and which plays to the strength of this team. Very few teams in Europé tries to play the way we do and there's a reason for that. It worked when one of the best players on the planet was in the team. When he and his partner in crime is out injured it doesn't take a Ph.D. in Rocket Science to figure out it won't work.

They 6 upcoming games preceding the United and Arsenal games will be very telling if he's able to turn it around. On paper they're all winnable but as we've seen since early September, pretty much any team can beat us with relative ease these days. He will most likely need 2 wins in the CL though there's a theoretical chance we can afford a draw in Bulgaria. Then he's gonna need at least 3 wins from the games against CP, Stoke, Sunderland and Leicester. I think we may actually make the last 16, but I do not think we will win more than 2 of the next 4 leaguegames thereby opening up an unhealthy gap to 4th place.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 10, 2014, 01:04:58 PM
Rodgers speaks about him he speaks like he's in awe of him and his greatness and wants to be his mate rather than his boss.

It's becoming an odd situation when you add Rodgers renting Gerrard's old house off him with his new girlfriend and the fact he never subs him off or leaves him out in the league whether he's playing well or not. In the West Ham game Gerrard looked like he had nothing left and Rodgers even felt the need to ask him if he was okay to play on, rather than have the balls to take him off. Of course Gerrard said yes but he's bound to. That's where the  manager needs to show some courage and leadership.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 11, 2014, 01:00:36 AM
very good points, edward.

yes, the young man (brendani) does seem compromised.

he is not big enough to make big decisions.  He is instead, a political animal, who goes with the flow, spouting the usual platitudes.

I'd like to see him leave - and as soon as possible.  It was a glorious experiment that went wrong.  His inability would have been caught on far earlier, if we had not had Suarez.  Without Suarez, he is naked.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 11, 2014, 03:53:15 AM
if we had not had Suarez.
Luis had an obsession with winning football matches.

First and foremost, the manager needs to have that.

Throughout his tenure, any of the pressers I've seen, both,
before and after games, he never gives me the impression
that he's upset with losing and loves the banter with the Journos.

Fergie had no time for that sh*t, too busy creating a siege mentality,
sending players out to tear the gates of hell off for him.

There's no winning mentality in that team of Rodgers, Luis was the
only one (Stevie used have it, the heart is willing but the body is no
longer able and the brain was never his strongest muscle. What used
to happen is he'd do it all himself, which leaves a bit of hole
when he can't anymore).

You see it in the results that slip away, potential wins become draws,
potential draws become losses and potential losses become white flags.

It comes from the top down.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 11, 2014, 08:23:28 AM
very good points, edward.

yes, the young man (brendani) does seem compromised.

he is not big enough to make big decisions.  He is instead, a political animal, who goes with the flow, spouting the usual platitudes.

I'd like to see him leave - and as soon as possible.  It was a glorious experiment that went wrong.  His inability would have been caught on far earlier, if we had not had Suarez.  Without Suarez, he is naked.

That would apply to many, and more merited managers than Rodgers though. Look at Mourinho last season. He wasn't quite the deal without a world class striker to bail him out. I'm not sure Rafa would've done it better last season, quite the opposite in fact. But I agree with you he seems more intent on running with the dogs than actually sticking to the principles he talked a lot about when he first arrived.

Seeing as Sturridge will need at least 5-6 games to near anything resembling top form, and granted he can't be played every game it's gonna be mid-December before expectations can be rightly thrown his way. That means Rodgers need to to something more, something else. Thus far he's been unable to do just that. With his back up against the wall and desperation setting in he might have a surprise or two in his back pocket. Otherwise his time will be duly up by May.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 11, 2014, 11:42:01 AM
Throughout his tenure, any of the pressers I've seen, both,
before and after games, he never gives me the impression
that he's upset with losing and loves the banter with the Journos.

Fergie had no time for that sh*t, too busy creating a siege mentality,
sending players out to tear the gates of hell off for him.

There's no winning mentality in that team of Rodgers, Luis was the
only one

It comes from the top down.

very good point, Ed.

You are right.  Rodgers is way too cosy with the journalists, all the banter, and he likes his media image, and giving nice soundbytes.

His priorities are wrong.

As you say, Fergie had no time for such BS with the media.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 11, 2014, 11:50:00 AM
That would apply to many, and more merited managers than Rodgers though. Look at Mourinho last season. He wasn't quite the deal without a world class striker to bail him out. I'm not sure Rafa would've done it better last season, quite the opposite in fact. But I agree with you he seems more intent on running with the dogs than actually sticking to the principles he talked a lot about when he first arrived.

Seeing as Sturridge will need at least 5-6 games to near anything resembling top form, and granted he can't be played every game it's gonna be mid-December before expectations can be rightly thrown his way. That means Rodgers need to to something more, something else. Thus far he's been unable to do just that. With his back up against the wall and desperation setting in he might have a surprise or two in his back pocket. Otherwise his time will be duly up by May.

I think you are right, Martin.

It's gonna be a while before we can expect much from Sturridge.  I am not even convinced that he will make much of a difference for us this season.  We are entirely devoid of confidence. 

You said it in another post, the other day, we now enter a run of 4 or 5 games against lower teams.  We need to put a few victories on the board.....if we do not, then I will start to focus more on the 40 points barrier.

For me, Rodgers is finished.  Managerial wise at Anfield - a dead man walking. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 11, 2014, 01:27:55 PM
I think you are right, Martin.

It's gonna be a while before we can expect much from Sturridge.  I am not even convinced that he will make much of a difference for us this season.  We are entirely devoid of confidence. 

You said it in another post, the other day, we now enter a run of 4 or 5 games against lower teams.  We need to put a few victories on the board.....if we do not, then I will start to focus more on the 40 points barrier.

For me, Rodgers is finished.  Managerial wise at Anfield - a dead man walking.

I'm not there just yet, emotionally. From a more realistic point of view, however, I struggle to see a way back for him. If lacking goals this term came at the expense of an immensly improved defence I could've seen progression. But there's nothing really. It's like a free fall. I realised this after our back to back defeats against Villa and West Ham and it left me in pure shock (I kid you not). It is unclear to me where things have gone wrong, and in a way it is of less interest. The most important thing know is we don't slip back any further. I would say the outcome of the next 6 games determines Rodgers career as Liverpool manager to no small extent. He will be here throughout the season, I'm sure, but falling back to 7th will leave him in anything but good stead with the owner. In a way I feel this is a much, much bitter pill to swallow than Rafa's collapse after 2009.

You really could tell from his post-Chelsea comments he's really down. Hopefully he can pick himself up during the international break and realise he cannot play the footy he wants to play - he just don't have the players.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 11, 2014, 05:00:33 PM
very good point, Ed.

You are right.  Rodgers is way too cosy with the journalists, all the banter, and he likes his media image, and giving nice soundbytes.

His priorities are wrong.

As you say, Fergie had no time for such BS with the media.

& as I've noted on many occasions, iif you go back to the
Anfield game against Chelsea last season and watch Jose's
celebration on our turf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uC8w6X8oSo

He's not interested in winning the league at this point (little
horse), but mentally destroying a potential rival for this season,
when he definitely intends to win it, appeals to him greatly.

You look at the progression of both clubs since that point and
what he was up to is plain to see. Who remembers or cares
now the tactics he used to get the result...

Our lad was asleep at the wheel, can't see the agendas at play
and sure Luis was playing out of his skin as a means to engineer
his move to Barca.

& then we go spending £50 million strengthening a minnow in
Southampton and it would appear that Swansea aren't doing
too bad either without Rodgers and Allen.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 11, 2014, 09:55:25 PM
[quote author Ed link=topic=47204.msg76566#msg76566 date=1415725233]
... and it would appear that Swansea aren't doing
too bad either without Rodgers and Allen.
[/quote]

Disagree strongly here Ed, re Allen. He's been by far our most consistent player this season. If every player who was here last season would've stood up the way he's done this season we would be far better off both performance- and pointswise. Very unfair criticism IMHO.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 11, 2014, 11:02:45 PM
Disagree strongly here Ed, re Allen. He's been by far our most consistent player this season. If every player who was here last season would've stood up the way he's done this season we would be far better off both performance- and pointswise. Very unfair criticism IMHO.
Ok, I'll have to defer to you on that point. I
haven't seen a game in over a year so I
couldn't possibly know his contribution.

Though, having said that, I'm not seeing his
name on the scoresheet. Anyway, the point
was more that Swansea seem to be doing
fine and so are Southampton, clubs which should
ideally be much weaker given the amount we've
taken from them, given to them.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 12, 2014, 08:46:45 AM
Ok, I'll have to defer to you on that point. I
haven't seen a game in over a year so I
couldn't possibly know his contribution.

Though, having said that, I'm not seeing his
name on the scoresheet. Anyway, the point
was more that Swansea seem to be doing
fine and so are Southampton, clubs which should
ideally be much weaker given the amount we've
taken from them, given to them.

And on that account we're in full agreement. Very strange indeed.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 13, 2014, 08:59:57 AM
Interesting and quite thorough take on our traits thus far. I think the article put a tad too much focus on Suarez and too little on the impact of playing wrong players in the wrong formation. I also think both Henderson and Sterling gets away far too easy. But it does show how far we've fallen behind last season's success.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2014/11/13/6094031/- (http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2014/11/13/6094031/-)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 13, 2014, 07:08:57 PM
FIFA, eh?

You couldn't make it up.

Well, actually you could, twice.

 :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 14, 2014, 03:08:36 AM
FACT (said in my Rafa voice)

Mario Balotelli, Rickie Lambert and Fabio Borini have failed to score a goal between them in 888 minutes in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 14, 2014, 08:25:10 AM
FACT (said in my Rafa voice)

Mario Balotelli, Rickie Lambert and Fabio Borini have failed to score a goal between them in 888 minutes in the Premier League.

Is right and that is so bad you have to ask whether they actually are that bad. Same goes for the whole team. We're bad, but are we really this bad? I dread thinking we are. The truth shall be revealed over the next 6 games.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 14, 2014, 06:31:19 PM
It's not that they are that bad it is the fact that two of them are basically statutes who don't run and need be in the box - and the box alone - to be effective. They don't run out wide. They don't interchange with the wide men or the attacking midfielders.

Which means that the central midfield cannot replicate last season when they could play the ball out wide or move out wide or central - basically wherever Suarez and Sturridge vacated their particular area on the pitch.

Even when we only had Sturridge available last season the midfield was able to spring balls into different positions and move into different positions.

With Lambert and Balotelli they simple cannot do that and are dictated by that lack of movement. Which is why they look disjointed.

Lambert was excellent for Southampton in the premier league because their midfielders were based around Lambert being in that box. Southampton replaced like for like. Lallana with Tadic, Lambert with Pelle. They haven't changed the system so they seem flawless and the players fit in easily. Our system has changed. Whether Brendan wanted it too or not I don't know. But results prove that with the new players, the same midfield and different attack - no wonder we are having big problems.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 14, 2014, 07:33:40 PM
good points.

the Liverpool manager bought two lamp-posts, when instead he needed mobile lighting.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 16, 2014, 12:46:16 AM
It's not that they are that bad it is the fact that two of them are basically statutes who don't run and need be in the box - and the box alone - to be effective. They don't run out wide. They don't interchange with the wide men or the attacking midfielders.

Which means that the central midfield cannot replicate last season when they could play the ball out wide or move out wide or central - basically wherever Suarez and Sturridge vacated their particular area on the pitch.

Even when we only had Sturridge available last season the midfield was able to spring balls into different positions and move into different positions.

With Lambert and Balotelli they simple cannot do that and are dictated by that lack of movement. Which is why they look disjointed.

Lambert was excellent for Southampton in the premier league because their midfielders were based around Lambert being in that box. Southampton replaced like for like. Lallana with Tadic, Lambert with Pelle. They haven't changed the system so they seem flawless and the players fit in easily. Our system has changed. Whether Brendan wanted it too or not I don't know. But results prove that with the new players, the same midfield and different attack - no wonder we are having big problems.

Indeed very good points.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 16, 2014, 09:24:04 PM
good points.

the Liverpool manager bought two lamp-posts, when instead he needed mobile lighting.
There are those fans, the majority, who have
become lately critical of the manager but
nevertheless pull with the club, identifying
problems and proposing solutions.

Then there's myself and Dude in our long entrenched
positions drinking tea (Buckfast, Gin?) and refusing
to fight, citing the futility of going over the top if the
Germans have machine guns  ;D

Different points of view, is all, we'd all love to see
us top of the table and bestriding Europe like the
Colossus Shankly spoke of.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on November 16, 2014, 09:55:18 PM
You couldn't make this 5h1t up  ;D ;D ;D

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/glen-johnson-one-worlds-best-8117314 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/glen-johnson-one-worlds-best-8117314)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 18, 2014, 12:46:40 PM
Then there's myself and Dude in our long entrenched
positions drinking tea (Buckfast, Gin?) and refusing
to fight, citing the futility of going over the top if the
Germans have machine guns  ;D

Different points of view, is all

 :D

when in Britain (before I left to play in the Central American Premiership), I would mix my red and white wines......drinking with a straw to improve the impact.  And wash them down with what I called Rocket Fuel (i.e. Carlsberg Special Brew - which is 9 per cent beer).   

Over here, my tipple is red wine and beer.  The locals like what is known as Seco.  Seco means DRY in English.  Seco looks like vodka....clear.   It is a rocket fuel - I tried it 6 years ago.....and even a tiny amount rewired my brain connections and made me wonder if I would ever return to the land of the sane (semi-sane).

From such stability, I offer my perspectives on my north west of england team from half way across the world.  What could possibly go wrong.

Like Rab C Nesbitt offering his thoughts on the G20 Talks.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 18, 2014, 12:50:03 PM
You couldn't make this 5h1t up  ;D ;D ;D

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/glen-johnson-one-worlds-best-8117314 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/glen-johnson-one-worlds-best-8117314)

 ;D

that is a major thing that irks me about modern day life....they are all so busy patting each other on the back, and often on the back of endless awards ceremonies.

Glen is a step or two up from Traore.  But that is all.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 18, 2014, 10:01:11 PM
Sturridge  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 18, 2014, 10:56:56 PM
Sturridge  :'( :'( :'(

It's over for him unfortunately. He's gonna be like this from now until he retire early at the age of 28. Tragic to see such talent go wasted but it's a fact he can't be relied on in the future. We need to move on now and appreciate the 18 monts we got. Desperate times calls for desperate measures we need to off-load whatever we can to bring in the likes of Lavezzi, Jovetic and Reus this coming window or I'll seriously fear for the future of this club.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 18, 2014, 11:00:11 PM
You mean Berahino, Delph and Rodriguez  ;D (no that's not a hint just me attempted to be funny!)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 18, 2014, 11:48:43 PM
 :o

40 points can't come quickly enough.   
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 19, 2014, 10:08:34 AM
:o

40 points can't come quickly enough.

That's the depressing truth. Good news though Henderson is out. Shold give our best player Allen a start alongside Can.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 19, 2014, 05:30:22 PM
You couldn't make this 5h1t up  ;D ;D ;D

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/glen-johnson-one-worlds-best-8117314 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/glen-johnson-one-worlds-best-8117314)
It's about balance, if you want Johnson in the side,
then you need a central defender who is in command,
a DM who can cover the ground and a winger who is
aware of tracking back. He's a luxury (modern) defender.

I would mix my red and white wines......drinking with a straw to improve the impact.  And wash
them down with what I called Rocket Fuel (i.e. Carlsberg Special Brew - which is 9 per cent beer).   
Thunderbird (blue i think) did the job also, before they banned it  ;D

It's over for him unfortunately. He's gonna be like this from now until he retire early at the age of 28.
Feel sorry for Sturridge. Season could easily unravel.

I don't buy the notion of bad luck though, things happen for
a reason and the reason or 90% of it is the decisions made
by the manager in the off-season.

Silverware in the domestic cups, CL and respectable league
position (Europe, preferrably CL) are still on the table, last
time I looked, so there's no point in making excuses.

The gaffer needs to find solutions.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 22, 2014, 12:01:19 PM
The gaffer needs to find solutions.

glue

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 22, 2014, 12:07:02 PM
bloddy ell, why oh why, oh why, do I wake up on a nice Saturday morning to find that we are not playing until Sunday.

Feck tv companies.

Why does Liverpool always seem to be playing on a Sunday.

I want regular Saturday 3PM football.

Now I have to put up with looking quietly every half an hour, to see if there is any upset re Chelsea, or United, or Man City.

Important run of games for Brendan coming up.  Palace could put the first nail in Rodger's Anfield career coffin tomorrow.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 22, 2014, 05:56:35 PM
glue
Gaffer tape!

Palace could put the first nail in Rodger's Anfield career coffin tomorrow.
You'd expect to see some signs that he's got a handle on things.

I think we'll get to the final of the Capital 1 cup.

As you say, plenty of banana skins ahead in the short term.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 22, 2014, 09:43:05 PM
gaffer tape   :D


I don't think we could even get to the final of the Doctor Marten's Cheshire Sunday Pub Lunch League Cup final.

We are shipping goals for fun.

We have no midfield.  And we cannot score.

40 pints is my first port of call. 

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 22, 2014, 11:48:17 PM
bloddy ell, why oh why, oh why, do I wake up on a nice Saturday morning to find that we are not playing until Sunday.

Feck tv companies.

Why does Liverpool always seem to be playing on a Sunday.

I want regular Saturday 3PM football.

Now I have to put up with looking quietly every half an hour, to see if there is any upset re Chelsea, or United, or Man City.

Important run of games for Brendan coming up.  Palace could put the first nail in Rodger's Anfield career coffin tomorrow.

And I'm quite certain they will. A draw is the best we can hope for. In fact, I can see us draw the next for PL-games. Massive game on Wednesday night though.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 23, 2014, 12:25:57 AM
I don't think we could even get to the final of the Doctor Marten's Cheshire Sunday Pub Lunch League Cup final.
Jesus, there's no future for a manager at LFC
unless he has a talent for winning leagues and
acquiring silverware.

A very depressing read here!

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/nov/22/liverpool-suffering-luis-suarez-title-crystal-palace
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 01:47:48 PM
(http://up.metropol247.co.uk/richard%20h/BREAKING%20NEWS.png)

There are reports coming in - unconfirmed as yet - that one of our strikers has scored a goal.

More as we have it.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 02:28:32 PM
Liverpool as usual under Rodgers, have no control of the game.

It's jumpers for goal posts.   With a tracksuit-bottomed PE teacher managing the anarchy, handing out bibs, and blowing his whistle.

I'll be surprised if Palace don't go on to win this game.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 23, 2014, 03:28:29 PM
Abject performance, cannot defend. Joke lineup. Lovren and Johnson can't defend. Can who played well against Chelsea instantly dropped. Weak in attack and terribly predictable. Gerrard dire.
Forget about top 4 now, with Rodgers we'll be battling relegation.
Rodgers has to go. Quite obvious he's lost the dressing room.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 03:35:23 PM
yes, I think he has lost the dressing room too, Bart.

I think the players have seen through him.

Scarily, there are so many problems across the entire team.  Where would one even start (to fix the issues).
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 23, 2014, 03:40:45 PM
There comes a point where you lose/draw/play terrible so many times it becomes a slippery slope with no way back.

Whatever the reason, fault it goes too far and the psychological effect is rarely reversed. In business and in football there is usually only one way this ends.

Brendan is either incredibly stubborn or incredibly stupid.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 23, 2014, 03:41:55 PM
I mean its 1-1 and we take off our best midfielder and Gerrard continues to stay on. What the hell is going on!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 03:48:48 PM
I think we are witnessing Brendan's final weeks at Anfield.

If this goes on, he won't be in a job come new year's day.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 23, 2014, 03:49:33 PM
Rodgers doesn't know his best team, his best formation, nor does he have a fornicating clue as how to stop the rot. I see no indication at all we're about to turn a corner and I actually believe we're going to finish in the bottom half.

Rodgers will get this season then he'll leave and another manager will come in and the re-building process has to start all over again and we know that'll take at least 2 seasons. This means the next 2 and a half seasons is wasted.

There's nothing, absolutely nothing, that offers hope. I'm totally depressed knowing we've, afuckinggain, spent whatever money we hade on shine-a-light, meaning a new manager will have to make do with a mid-table squad.

I have never witnessed such a collapse in such a short time of space.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 03:56:27 PM
Rodgers doesn't know his best team, his best formation, nor does he have a fornicating clue as how to stop the rot.

I have always found that - only top managers can identify the issues and turn things around.

Young, inexperienced, bull-shieeters, are way out of their depth when the rot sets in.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 23, 2014, 03:57:26 PM

Brendan is either incredibly stubborn or incredibly stupid.

He's an egotist. So he can do no wrong in his eyes. We need shot now or we'll be in serious trouble.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 23, 2014, 04:17:25 PM
I have always found that - only top managers can identify the issues and turn things around.

Young, inexperienced, bull-shieeters, are way out of their depth when the rot sets in.

But those exact proplems applied to Rafa as well so he's no alternative.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 04:40:02 PM
But those exact proplems applied to Rafa as well so he's no alternative.

But Rafa had a history of winning trophies.

Rafa had one poorish season.  It was hardly surprising that he did eventually succumb to being ordinary, given the shietstorm that was going on at the club - with the Toxic Twins.

Sacking Rafa was the height of madness. 

Look at the jokers we have had managing the club since then - Hodgson, Dalglish and Brent.   

Like think about it.  We sacked Rafa Benitez to bring in Roy Hodgson.

Think about that for a second.

We sacked Rafa Benitez to bring in Roy Hodgson.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 23, 2014, 06:15:59 PM
But Rafa had a history of winning trophies.

Rafa had one poorish season.  It was hardly surprising that he did eventually succumb to being ordinary, given the shietstorm that was going on at the club - with the Toxic Twins.

Sacking Rafa was the height of madness. 

Look at the jokers we have had managing the club since then - Hodgson, Dalglish and Brent.   

Like think about it.  We sacked Rafa Benitez to bring in Roy Hodgson.

Think about that for a second.

We sacked Rafa Benitez to bring in Roy Hodgson.


We sacked Rafa because of his own shortcomings. During his final 3 seasons he had a 3 month spell where Everything worked because everything was already lost. Even Ferguson thought we'd win it that season. But no, he just had to act like a fornicating spoilt child with his pathetic "fact" rant. His stubborness makes Rodgers look flexible. I'm glad he's gone and if he ever comes back I assure you I will book an appointment to remove my tattoos.

Rafa in a nutshell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t00D23R63ig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t00D23R63ig)

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 23, 2014, 07:00:18 PM
Let's not descend into the rafa thing cos some of us love him and some hate...
it also distracts from the large pink elephant in the room.
Who to replace rodgers?

Do we get a caretaker til the end of the season? Who could do that job? Kenny and Steve Clarke once more?
Can we poach a decent manager with proven pedigree?
We'll need to shell out a shed load of cash but at least its not on some useless attacking midfielder who flatters to deceive.
In his arrogance after winning the manager of the year (due to suarez) he got rid of agger and reina, deeming not needed due to them having an opinion different to his. Now look at the state, full of yes men with no backbone.

With the right manager and dropping the likes of johnson, lovren, gerrard and getting a decent def midfielder to tighten things up then we at least have a chance of getting back to playing fairly decently. That Rodgers still plays the diamond even when we have no strikers that suit it is a heinous act, its bloody obvious...so whats wrong with playing 4-4-2..a decent manager can adapt to the games at hand and change accordingly...rodgers obviously can't.

If we lose to Ludogrets surely he's gone.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 23, 2014, 07:24:11 PM
Let's not descend into the rafa thing cos some of us love him and some hate...
it also distracts from the large pink elephant in the room.
Who to replace rodgers?
¨

Is right. Sorry.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 07:32:03 PM
We sacked Rafa because of his own shortcomings.

His stubborness makes Rodgers look flexible. I'm glad he's gone and if he ever comes back I assure you I will book an appointment to remove my tattoos.

(http://www.iamnaples.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Benitez-Valencia.jpg)
(http://colgadosporelfutbol.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Valencia-campe%C3%B3n-576x300.jpg)
(http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Photo/competitions/History/01/50/03/30/1500330_w2.jpg)
(http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Photo/competitions/Clubsprofiles/94/04/44/940444_w2.jpg)
(http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/05/04/1226904/722353-580e379e-d315-11e3-b3dd-4bc0ed63383f.jpg)
(http://media2.ftbpro.com/post_image/image/1809470/file.jpg)(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/27/article-2331782-19CD0D0D000005DC-756_634x486.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BCXABeJZQWA/UaoKaZdCpHI/AAAAAAAAAYY/Z8BFG3z3CLw/s1600/MIRRO.CO.UK.jpg)
(http://provenquality.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Rafael_Benitez_europa_league.jpg)
(http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Rafa-Benitez-Chelsea-e1368686751893.jpg)
(http://www.iamnaples.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/rafa-benitez-coppa-italia.jpg)
(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00334/43716342_Rafa_334559b.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_02/BenitezDM_468x498.jpg)

(http://images.planetf1.com/12/11/800x600/Rafael-Benitez-Inter-Milan-Italian-Super-Cup-_2864235.jpg)
(http://hotterthanapileofcurry.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/rafa-benitez-leiverpool-fc-fa-cup-winner.jpg?w=400)(http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/67/590x/secondary/26782.jpg)
(http://www.theasiankop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Benitez-and-fans.jpg)
(http://cdn.live4liverpool.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/kop_flags_rafa.jpg)



Martin,  I posted a few images (above) to sum up Rafa's career in management so far.

You wanted him sacked.  Apparently he wasn't good enough.

Would you be so kind as to put up a few pictures of your guy's (Rodgers) success to date in management?


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 07:40:10 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/17/article-1387757-0C19A9BC00000578-491_634x373.jpg)
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52785000/jpg/_52785730_brend_huw.jpg)

Here, let me help you out.

Rodgers has won a Football League Championship play-off final in 2010–11

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 07:49:59 PM
Who to replace rodgers?

Do we get a caretaker til the end of the season?

Who could do that job? Kenny and Steve Clarke once more?

Can we poach a decent manager with proven pedigree?

If we lose to Ludogrets surely he's gone.

yes, that is my thinking too....lose away at Ludogrets, and he must be gone.  And I expect us to struggle out there.

other questions.

I wouldn't employ Kenny to even make me a cup of tea, or to organise a training session.  He needs to stay well out of decision-making, or pension top-ups way.

Caretaker is gonna be a problem.  What about a stalwart like Roy Evans, or is he too long out of the game?  John ALdridge?  Maybe similar.

I would look to the likes of Ancellotti, Benitez and Klopp.  That is the type of class we need.

We can make discrete calls in the weeks and months ahead.  I have also always been a big fan of Martin O'Neill.

I do not have a great deal of faith in the yanks to bring in the right man. 

But if things do not improve in the next month before the year end, we need to be extra careful.  The football we are playing is bottom 6 football. 

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 08:05:44 PM
Rodgers claims: “I’m not arrogant enough to think that I will be in a job through anything,” Rodgers said. “Any manager will tell you that you have to win games and you have to get results, especially after how we’ve been developing as a football club. But I have a great communication line with the owners. We’ve been honest enough with each other but ultimately you have to get results. You have to perform. In my first year when we weren’t maybe getting the results we were performing well.

“Owners and directors and chairmen and chief executives have to see development on the field. Barring this period, our development has been very good and fast. But there’s no doubt as a manager you have to get results. That will support the confidence to the owners, and you take it from there. I will only ever do my best.

"The best has seen us develop well. Now I need to fight even harder. And take the responsibility because as manager full responsibility comes down to me. Any pressure comes on to me.”

“It was bitterly disappointing,” Rodgers said. “Nowhere near the levels we’d expect, after a very good start. You’ve seen a team low on confidence today. Not quite together as a team. We need to find a solution very quickly because it was very disappointing.

“It’s my responsibility as the manager, ultimately. I put the team out there, the best team to win us the game. We made a good start. You could see our passing was a wee bit tentative, and then we make mistakes."

"Mistakes you wouldn’t expect to see from a team that’s supposed to be challenging.

"We failed to manage the game."


_______________________________________ _________________

I wish Brendan would be more forthright.

When in any of Liverpool's matches, under his tenure, have we "managed the game" ????

It's school-boy stuff....jumpers for goal-posts.  And to be sure of winning, we need to be two or three goals clear before the final 5 minutes of any game.

And again, he seems to think Liverpool making mistakes is some rare thing.  His Liverpool teams constantly is making basic errors, that cost us goals.  Every game. 

He needs to have a look in the mirror and accept that his is the name in the envelope.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 23, 2014, 08:29:36 PM
Yes let's get in Rafa who managed have one title challenging season in his time with us - same as Brendan and has the same transfer success rate as well.

Thankfully FSG will NEVER employ Rafa. Trust me on that.

If Brendan is not the answer and cannot get over his stubborness/stupidness then we'll have to look for another solution.

However until we have a vacany there is no point speculating.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 08:33:04 PM
and what has Brendan ever won?

You forgot to mention.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 08:35:46 PM
If Brendan is not the answer and cannot get over his stubborness/stupidness then we'll have to look for another solution.

but you and Martin said he was essentially God incarnate.  The answer to all our problems.

Turns out, with no Suarez to hide behind, he is worse than useless.

Will there be an acknowledgement that you called it wrong?  Maybe an apology for all the abuse fired at me (and others in here)?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 23, 2014, 10:19:38 PM
Sorry no apology from me.

I'll never ever apologise for backing, giving support and goodwill to any LFC manager that comes in to our club. (besides Hodgson). You ought to try it sometimes.

One suspects if we don't get Rafa, Klopp, Guardiola or Ancelotti you'd be the same once more with the incoming manager.

As I said though this is a pointless discussion until there is an actual vacancy.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 23, 2014, 10:25:12 PM
but you and Martin said he was essentially God incarnate.  The answer to all our problems.

When you talk like that I really do wonder whether you let out a sigh of relief when Gerrard slipped. No offense, mate.

Other than that I think it's kind of cildish to berate us for believing in the manager up to a point. Unlike you we've both swallowed the bitter pill and admitted we got it wrong, whereas you harp on about Rafa to anyone willing to listen. Your inability to be critical of Rafa undo your credibility mate.

There really is no point to sack Rodgers before the end of the season, unless we can convince Ancelotti or some manager of that kind to jump ship and join us. The season is pretty much over (will be on Wednesday) which also gives the owners a lot of time to think through their role at the club and what the long term strategy should be now that this one failed. Come the end of May 2015, part ways in a civilized fashion and bring in some who really have the capacity to wake this giant.

Besides Ancelotti I'm lost for candidates thought I have a pretty clear idea who I don't want to replace Rodgers.  ;D

Later on when the dust has settled it shall be very very interesting to learn what really happened during these 6 months that saw us regress in a manner I've never seen any football club do. I don't believe Rodgers is any worse today he was 6 months ago, I don't think most of the players are worse today they were 6 months ago. I think it will boil down to 2 things:

1) Inability to replace Suarez and strengthen in key areas (DM and CB most notably).

2) The owners' and the managers' refusal to appreciate the importance of having senior players in their prime offloading pressure of the younger players. Sterling, Markovic, Manquilly, Moreno, Can, Allen, Henderson, Sakho, Coutinho, Balotelli, Sturridge are all 25 or younger. At the other end we have a 34 year old Gerrard and 32 year old Lambert. Only 2-3 players are in their prime. Mourinho's having a larf. They say we have a team for the future. The problem is we're actually losing our future right NOW!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 23, 2014, 10:34:37 PM
As for Klopp. Dortmund's even worse off than us.

1 B Munchen     12  9  3  0  31-3   30
  2 Wolfsburg     12  7  2  3  24-12  23
  3 Mönchengladba 12  5  5  2  16-9   20
  4 Leverkusen    12  5  5  2  20-16  20
  5 Hannover      12  6  1  5  10-14  19
  6 Augsburg      12  6  0  6  15-12  18
  7 Schalke       12  5  2  5  17-17  17
  8 Hoffenheim    12  4  5  3  17-18  17
  9 Mainz         12  3  7  2  15-14  16
 10 Paderborn     12  4  4  4  18-18  16
 11 Köln          12  4  3  5  12-13  15
 12 Frankfurt     12  4  3  5  20-24  15
 13 Hertha Berlin 12  4  2  6  17-22  14
 14 Freiburg      12  2  6  4  13-16  12
 15 Hamburg       12  3  3  6   6-14  12
 16 Dortmund      12  3  2  7  14-19  11
 17 W Bremen      12  2  4  6  14-26  10
 18 Stuttgart     12  2  3  7  14-26   9
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 11:48:57 PM
Sorry no apology from me.

I'll never ever apologise for backing, giving support and goodwill to any LFC manager that comes in to our club. (besides Hodgson). You ought to try it sometimes.

where was your support for Rafa?

You know, the guy who came in, and took us to number one in the European Club listings; two Champions League Finals in two years, won the FA Cup, took us to second in the league, etc etc.

You turned on him the minute he had a poor season (despite all the crap he had going on in the background).

Plastic fan is what comes to mind re your support.

Of course, people like me and Tes endlessly warned you about the madness of appointing folk like Hodgson and Rodgers. 

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 23, 2014, 11:50:13 PM
As for Klopp. Dortmund's even worse off than us.

1 B Munchen     12  9  3  0  31-3   30
  2 Wolfsburg     12  7  2  3  24-12  23
  3 Mönchengladba 12  5  5  2  16-9   20
  4 Leverkusen    12  5  5  2  20-16  20
  5 Hannover      12  6  1  5  10-14  19
  6 Augsburg      12  6  0  6  15-12  18
  7 Schalke       12  5  2  5  17-17  17
  8 Hoffenheim    12  4  5  3  17-18  17
  9 Mainz         12  3  7  2  15-14  16
 10 Paderborn     12  4  4  4  18-18  16
 11 Köln          12  4  3  5  12-13  15
 12 Frankfurt     12  4  3  5  20-24  15
 13 Hertha Berlin 12  4  2  6  17-22  14
 14 Freiburg      12  2  6  4  13-16  12
 15 Hamburg       12  3  3  6   6-14  12
 16 Dortmund      12  3  2  7  14-19  11
 17 W Bremen      12  2  4  6  14-26  10
 18 Stuttgart     12  2  3  7  14-26   9


yes, plastic fans analyse one season.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 23, 2014, 11:55:33 PM
yes, plastic fans analyse one season.

Says the man who didn't give the current manager 5 games before declaring to the world what an utter piece of shed he was compared to his God Rafa. A bit rich, innit?

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 24, 2014, 12:00:16 AM
Unlike you we've both swallowed the bitter pill and admitted we got it wrong, whereas you harp on about Rafa to anyone willing to listen. Your inability to be critical of Rafa undo your credibility mate.

There really is no point to sack Rodgers before the end of the season, unless we can convince Ancelotti or some manager of that kind to jump ship and join us. The season is pretty much over (will be on Wednesday) which also gives the owners a lot of time to think

you and Edward have came late to the table (i.e. accepting Rodgers is way out of his depth).

I do not see any acknowledgement of getting it wrong, nevermind an apology (for all the abuse).

And I do see an importance for sacking Rodgers pre-Christmas.

We are playing bottom 6 football.  We are rubbish.  This is the worst football I have ever seen Liverpool play......worse than Hodgson....worse than Dalglish....worse than Houllier.....worse than Souness.

We keep this up, over the next month, and we will be sitting on top of the relegation places.

But who do we get in as caretaker.  I don't know.  And given their very poor recruitment skills, I suspect  our owners have even less of a clue (than me).

Will Ancellotti leave Madrid this summer.  I dunno. 

Klopp has been linked to Arsenal lately.

Rafa would, I imagine, make himself free this summer, if the Anfield hotseat became available.

Interesting times ahead (tho squeaky bum times too)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 24, 2014, 12:01:57 AM
Says the man who didn't give the current manager 5 games before declaring to the world what an utter piece of shed Brendan Rodgers was, compared to his God Rafa.

well, was I wrong?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 24, 2014, 12:08:29 AM
Rodgers claims: “I’m not arrogant enough to think that I will be in a job through anything,” Rodgers said. “Any manager will tell you that you have to win games and you have to get results, especially after how we’ve been developing as a football club. But I have a great communication line with the owners. We’ve been honest enough with each other but ultimately you have to get results. You have to perform. In my first year when we weren’t maybe getting the results we were performing well.

“Owners and directors and chairmen and chief executives have to see development on the field. Barring this period, our development has been very good and fast. But there’s no doubt as a manager you have to get results. That will support the confidence to the owners, and you take it from there. I will only ever do my best.

"The best has seen us develop well. Now I need to fight even harder. And take the responsibility because as manager full responsibility comes down to me. Any pressure comes on to me.”

“It was bitterly disappointing,” Rodgers said. “Nowhere near the levels we’d expect, after a very good start. You’ve seen a team low on confidence today. Not quite together as a team. We need to find a solution very quickly because it was very disappointing.

“It’s my responsibility as the manager, ultimately. I put the team out there, the best team to win us the game. We made a good start. You could see our passing was a wee bit tentative, and then we make mistakes."

"Mistakes you wouldn’t expect to see from a team that’s supposed to be challenging.

"We failed to manage the game."


_______________________________________ _________________

I wish Brendan would be more forthright.

When in any of Liverpool's matches, under his tenure, have we "managed the game" ????

It's school-boy stuff....jumpers for goal-posts.  And to be sure of winning, we need to be two or three goals clear before the final 5 minutes of any game.

And again, he seems to think Liverpool making mistakes is some rare thing.  His Liverpool teams constantly is making basic errors, that cost us goals.  Every game. 

He needs to have a look in the mirror and accept that his is the name in the envelope.
Strange that the manager of Liverpool FC
should start talking to the media about his job
security.

One wonders if the end-game is approaching...

He certainly seems rattled now and the last thing a manager
should be doing is talking about the necessity of short-term
results...what happened to the bigger picture? I don't think
he knows what he's about at all, at all, tbh.

The panic set in after Real's visit to Anfield when we were outclassed
in every area of the football club.

His decision to flip/flap with team selection for the Bernabeu game
sent out a very mixed signal to the players and whether he
knows what he's about at the top level.

He needs to get out of the group now, I reckon to halt the slide. This
should be achieved by any means necessary.

Forget about the opposition in the Prem and start turning losses into results,
draws or wins.

I think his big decision is what to do about the defense (Agger, wtf was he thinking?)
'cos we're going nowhere leaking goals at the rate we are.

It's probably two calls, drop Stevie and stick Lucas in at DM and then either the keeper
or a centre-back needs to be changed.

Jesus, crying to the media when he should be ruthlessly solving the problem  ::)

recovery period = about 6 weeks... (and it doesn't have to be pretty!)

Get a grip Rodgers.
 

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 24, 2014, 12:19:53 AM
well, was I wrong?

You just convinced me you celebrated when Gerrard slipped.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 24, 2014, 12:28:15 AM
Strange that the manager of Liverpool FC
should start talking to the media about his job
security.

One wonders if the end-game is approaching...

He certainly seems rattled now and the last thing a manager
should be doing is talking about the necessity of short-term
results...what happened to the bigger picture? I don't think
he knows what he's about at all, at all, tbh.

The panic set in after Real's visit to Anfield when we were outclassed
in every area of the football club.

His decision to flip/flap with team selection for the Bernabeu game
sent out a very mixed signal to the players and whether he
knows what he's about at the top level.

He needs to get out of the group now, I reckon to halt the slide. This
should be achieved by any means necessary.

Forget about the opposition in the Prem and start turning losses into results,
draws or wins.

I think his big decision is what to do about the defense (Agger, wtf was he thinking?)
'cos we're going nowhere leaking goals at the rate we are.

It's probably two calls, drop Stevie and stick Lucas in at DM and then either the keeper
or a centre-back needs to be changed.

Jesus, crying to the media when he should be ruthlessly solving the problem  ::)

recovery period = about 6 weeks... (and it doesn't have to be pretty!)

Get a grip Rodgers.

Good post. The problem is there are so many of them. Look at Mignolet who failed to hit a 60 yard field that eventually led to their 2-1 goal. Skrtel and Lovren is the worst CB pairing I've seen since I started watching LFC in the late 70's. The midfield is a complete mess and upfront we're simply too weak.

That's the pesonell. Then there's the issue of tactics. It is amazing how disjointed the various departments of the team are. There's no structure, no organization. The players look like they have no idea how to move. When we defend we do so by numbers. We pack the box and hope that's enough rather than actually defend with purpose. At the other end we attack with numbers hoping the next player will do something so that I don't have to. Opponents defend with ease because all it takes is to stick 2 or 3 players to play the pressing game between our back four and our midfield and so we're done.

This is the worst run since October 2009 when *cough* *cough* Rafa blew it. I see no indication the rot will stop anytime soon but I share your estimation Ed he's got about 6 weeks to fix it.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 24, 2014, 12:59:22 AM
You just convinced me you celebrated when Gerrard slipped.

why are you trying to mix and match answers to different questions.

Suarez covered up all of Rodger's inadequacies.

Now, let me say it again re Rodgers being a poor manager - well, was I wrong?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 24, 2014, 01:01:53 AM
Good post. The problem is there are so many of them. Look at Mignolet who failed to hit a 60 yard field that eventually led to their 2-1 goal. Skrtel and Lovren is the worst CB pairing I've seen since I started watching LFC in the late 70's. The midfield is a complete mess and upfront we're simply too weak.

That's the pesonell. Then there's the issue of tactics. It is amazing how disjointed the various departments of the team are. There's no structure, no organization. The players look like they have no idea how to move.

well, who is in charge of bringing players in; training them; selecting the team; and deciding the tactics?

Did Reina have to go?  Agger?

Who the hell thought Lovren was good enough?

Or Lambert?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 24, 2014, 10:06:20 AM
I think we're all pretty dismayed and appalled by our utter and complete failure in the transfer market. Question though is whether that's down to Rodgers or if the blame should be shared? From a structural point of view our problem seem to stem from a) the directive of the owners, i.e., buy young talent with potential which is then executed by a dysfunctional transfer-committee. Such a set up surely decreases transparency and the ability to point the finger. In short we don't know whether Lavezzi was a no go because of the directors, or because the transfer committee didn't rate him or because Rodgers didn't want him. It's a fornicating mess, a cluster fork if you like.

It is mindblowing when you consider we could've gone for Alonso, Lavezzi, Turan and Alves, instead chose Lovren, Marcovic, Balotelli and Moreno.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 24, 2014, 11:57:14 AM
Brilliant article this. Sums it up pretty much for me although I'm a bit more pessimistic he can actually do it again. Good read anyroad.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2014/11/i-want-him-to-do-it-again/ (http://tomkinstimes.com/2014/11/i-want-him-to-do-it-again/)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 24, 2014, 05:18:11 PM

Interesting reports linking us with Klopp who's not happy at Dortmund due to them selling all the best ones off to Bayern. A german cup, 2 german league wins, a runners up and a champs league final is a pretty good CV.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 24, 2014, 05:23:55 PM
where was your support for Rafa?

You know, the guy who came in, and took us to number one in the European Club listings; two Champions League Finals in two years, won the FA Cup, took us to second in the league, etc etc.

You turned on him the minute he had a poor season (despite all the crap he had going on in the background).

Plastic fan is what comes to mind re your support.

Of course, people like me and Tes endlessly warned you about the madness of appointing folk like Hodgson and Rodgers.

You never knew me when Rafa was manager so you have no idea what I was thinking/doing at that time. Personally Dude the day Rafa told Xabi Alonso he couldn't be at the birth of his child and thus create that tension between the two which ended in Alonso being sold (at his own request) the following summer. That combined with the fact he couldn't get to grips with how to compete continously in the premier league didn't make me cry when he left. I never actually actively wanted to get rid of him dude. But I wasn't being pro-active in demanding he stayed either.

I said at the time I wanted a root and branch clear out of the club from owners to directors to the manager. Martin knew me then and will attest to that.

But alas I digress.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 24, 2014, 06:10:10 PM
the day Rafa told Xabi Alonso he couldn't be at the birth of his child and thus create that tension between the two
I thought it was the pursuit of Barry.

Anyway,  Rafa had to go at the time, the club was toxic,
everyone at war.

There was a certain logic, albeit desperate, to the
appointment of Hodgson. It was only ever a temporary
arrangement.

There was a certain logic, albeit desparate, to the appointment
of Kenny. It was only ever a temporary arrangement. I
supported Kenny because he's Kenny and to his credit he
got us to 2 cup finals and back in Europe.

There was a certain logic to the idea of appointing of Rodgers.
Originally it seemed he would be more of a coach with a
DF doing the strategic thinking.

The problem arose when the plucky young Irishman, flavour of
the month at the time, rejected that outright.

So now we are where we are, more than £100 million blown
over the Summer and yet fielding a b-team at one of the most
iconic stadiums in Europe. Southampton, 11 points above us in
the table, an injury-prone 1st striker and basket-case 2nd striker.

The f**king irony is that if we'd stuck with the DF idea (or appointed
a real manager) in the first place, dismissing Rodgers would be
relatively easy if he can't arrest the £100 million slump.

The arguments might be different if he had actually bought Luis
Suarez, but that piece of business was conducted by Damien
Comolli.

He is entitled as a manager of a football club to go through a
period of poor results, but it's the signings + the inability to
turn average players into anything but average + the
complete absence of young players coming through which
will weigh heavily against him unless he does exactly what
is expected of the manager of LFC and turn things around.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 24, 2014, 07:04:18 PM
I thought it was the pursuit of Barry.

Anyway,  Rafa had to go at the time, the club was toxic,
everyone at war.

There was a certain logic, albeit desperate, to the
appointment of Hodgson. It was only ever a temporary
arrangement.

There was a certain logic, albeit desparate, to the appointment
of Kenny. It was only ever a temporary arrangement. I
supported Kenny because he's Kenny and to his credit he
got us to 2 cup finals and back in Europe.

There was a certain logic to the idea of appointing of Rodgers.
Originally it seemed he would be more of a coach with a
DF doing the strategic thinking.

The problem arose when the plucky young Irishman, flavour of
the month at the time, rejected that outright.

So now we are where we are, more than £100 million blown
over the Summer and yet fielding a b-team at one of the most
iconic stadiums in Europe. Southampton, 11 points above us in
the table, an injury-prone 1st striker and basket-case 2nd striker.

The f**king irony is that if we'd stuck with the DF idea (or appointed
a real manager) in the first place, dismissing Rodgers would be
relatively easy if he can't arrest the £100 million slump.

The arguments might be different if he had actually bought Luis
Suarez, but that piece of business was conducted by Damien
Comolli.

He is entitled as a manager of a football club to go through a
period of poor results, but it's the signings + the inability to
turn average players into anything but average + the
complete absence of young players coming through which
will weigh heavily against him unless he does exactly what
is expected of the manager of LFC and turn things around.

Very good poins there indeed Ed. No one was happier than me when the news broke we appointed Rafa. I couldn't believe we got hold of the manager who played some of the best footy I've seen to this date with his Valencia. I was very very supportive of him for the first 3 seasons. But going into the 07/08 season his hard-core scientific approach started to show negative signs. There was no flair, no camaridere, no desperation. Just 11 robots sticking to what they've been assigned. At this time it also became apparent he would always rate the CL above the PL. He would settle for a draw at Stoke (not the same Stoke as today mind) just to play his strongest team in a relatively poinless CL-game a few days later. He fell out with Paco. He alienated arguably one the best midfilders to ever put on a red shirt, he made many enemies inside and outside the club. I don't suggest you need to be everybody's bessies mate but you ought to know you can't take every conflict in life. The first half of his stint was brilliant, the second half disastrous for the club as there's no doubt in my mind he put himself Before the club when the club was very very vulnerable. I'll never forgive him for that, despite Istanbul (which was, IMHO, down to a crazy half he didn't had a lot of impact on either way, not taking anything away).

The same with Rodgers as with Rafa. I was very pleased upon his appointment. I also thought it was obvious there was progress being made constantly. Unfortunately, it all seem gone now. Maybe he was too young after all to take un a job on these premises at a club this big? I don't know. But it's obvious whateve strategy he had to build on last season's success has failed massively to put it mildly. I want him to turn it around. I want it so much. But in reality I don't think he can. The players look lost, the unity between players and the players and the manager seem to be completely gone. The team acts like they don't have the first clue. He persist to play a formation he doesn't have players for. There's so many problems to fix, half of it would be enough for a more experienced manager. If he somehow manage to turn it around I don't hold it beyond him to become the greatest manager ever to manage this club. But that's just wishful thinking I'm terribly afraid.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 24, 2014, 09:39:29 PM
Hmmm and now you're really opening the debate....

Very good poins there indeed Ed. No one was happier than me when the news broke we appointed Rafa. I couldn't believe we got hold of the manager who played some of the best footy I've seen to this date with his Valencia. I was very very supportive of him for the first 3 seasons.

Agreed, win the champs league final in Istanbul, The FA cup in 2006 and then get to another Champs league final in 2007. What's not to like?

But going into the 07/08 season his hard-core scientific approach started to show negative signs. There was no flair, no camaridere, no desperation. Just 11 robots sticking to what they've been assigned.


Hmmm, so the hardcore scientific approach showed signs of negativity? We'd just been in the Champs league final in may for chrissakes...sometimes you lose.

At this time it also became apparent he would always rate the CL above the PL. He would settle for a draw at Stoke (not the same Stoke as today mind) just to play his strongest team in a relatively poinless CL-game a few days later.

Maybe one of the reasons to prioritise the champs league was because of the 2 carpetbaggers hicks and gilette, who were spouting garbage all the time, working with them closely i would imagine rafa's alarm bells began to ring very early on....Also by prioritising we got to number 1 in europe which then attracts players and brings in more money than the prem league, thus enabling us to buy better players...there is method in the madness.

He fell out with Paco.

Yep, shed happens. It's life.

He alienated arguably one the best midfilders to ever put on a red shirt, he made many enemies inside and outside the club. I don't suggest you need to be everybody's bessies mate but you ought to know you can't take every conflict in life.

Absolutely, but then Alonso didnt have the greatest of seasons when rafa decided. It was only his last that was his greatest. But agreed, Rafa could have handled that far better.
Can you imagine what fergie would have done to the enemies inside? They would have been gone. No doubt.

...there's no doubt in my mind he put himself Before the club when the club was very very vulnerable. I'll never forgive him for that, despite Istanbul

Excuse me? How the f*** did Rafa put himself before the club when he had to deal with the daylight robbery of hicks and gilette??? He did everything in his power to save the club, despite them...Finally when it looked like they were never going to leave and he made the heinous act of ending up 3 points away from a champs league position in his final year, he then had enough.

:)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 24, 2014, 09:53:23 PM
What i also love about the enemies rumours is....

If it was Carra and Gerrard, then considering Carra's career was transformed by Benitez and Gerrard had his best moments ever in a Liverpool shirt, when playing behind Torres etc, it seems ironic that they stabbed him in the back, wanting an improved manager. They should have been careful what they wished for. They got Hodgson.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on November 24, 2014, 10:31:29 PM
Spot on with your reply#602 Barticus.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 24, 2014, 11:03:49 PM
Hmmm and now you're really opening the debate....

Very good poins there indeed Ed. No one was happier than me when the news broke we appointed Rafa. I couldn't believe we got hold of the manager who played some of the best footy I've seen to this date with his Valencia. I was very very supportive of him for the first 3 seasons.

Agreed, win the champs league final in Istanbul, The FA cup in 2006 and then get to another Champs league final in 2007. What's not to like?

But going into the 07/08 season his hard-core scientific approach started to show negative signs. There was no flair, no camaridere, no desperation. Just 11 robots sticking to what they've been assigned.


Hmmm, so the hardcore scientific approach showed signs of negativity? We'd just been in the Champs league final in may for chrissakes...sometimes you lose.

In the league definite signs of negativity. We had the squad from 05 to 09 to challenge on more than one front. Rafa would rather settle for the point - at home to mid and lower table teams than take a risk, a gamble and get the three points. I'd rather win 1, draw 1 and lose 1 than draw 3. Rafa thinks differently and it started in 06/07 let alone 07/08. CL final is one of those things like you said.

At this time it also became apparent he would always rate the CL above the PL. He would settle for a draw at Stoke (not the same Stoke as today mind) just to play his strongest team in a relatively poinless CL-game a few days later.

Maybe one of the reasons to prioritise the champs league was because of the 2 carpetbaggers hicks and gilette, who were spouting garbage all the time, working with them closely i would imagine rafa's alarm bells began to ring very early on....Also by prioritising we got to number 1 in europe which then attracts players and brings in more money than the prem league, thus enabling us to buy better players...there is method in the madness.

Complete B.S. we had the squad to compete on two fronts. Easily. Rafa's mindset in PL games was the main reason we never challenged for the title. We only challenge in the latter stages of 09 because Rafa had NO OPTION but to change tact and allow the players to express themselves more rather than the robotic nature he went about a PL campaign. Of course working with those two scum bags in H&G would have his alarm bells ringing. But he still spent a huge amount on 07 and 08. We bought Keane for £20m. He had the resources. Then in 2009 he had to sell to buy. Being No.1 never attracted players though did it. Complete crap. Who did we attract when we were No1? Only Torres and he was never coveted at all by any major club. He targeted the CL because he knew his tactics worked better there than it did in the PL and would earn himself more kudos.

He fell out with Paco.

Yep, shed happens. It's life. Agreed but he replaced him inadequately

He alienated arguably one the best midfilders to ever put on a red shirt, he made many enemies inside and outside the club. I don't suggest you need to be everybody's bessies mate but you ought to know you can't take every conflict in life.

Absolutely, but then Alonso didnt have the greatest of seasons when rafa decided. It was only his last that was his greatest. But agreed, Rafa could have handled that far better.
Can you imagine what fergie would have done to the enemies inside? They would have been gone. No doubt. I agree Alonso wasn't great in 07/08 but previous seasons should have earnt him more credit in the bank in terms of going forward from then on. Fergie would never have attempted to replace Alonso, so moot point. Would fergie have stopped Alonso being at the birth of his child?

...there's no doubt in my mind he put himself Before the club when the club was very very vulnerable. I'll never forgive him for that, despite Istanbul

Excuse me? How the f*** did Rafa put himself before the club when he had to deal with the daylight robbery of hicks and gilette??? He did everything in his power to save the club, despite them...Finally when it looked like they were never going to leave and he made the heinous act of ending up 3 points away from a champs league position in his final year, he then had enough.

The only point I agree with you. He never put himself before the club. However I will caveat that by saying he wanted CL success more than PL success to earn himself more kudos. Only IMO. If he had FSG has owners in 2007 we'd be much better off now in terms of our infrastructure football wise. Do I think he did himself no favours by out right attacking H&G. Yes. We didn't sack him because of footballing reasons. The reason he left is because we wanted to sell the club in a state in which the manager and board were at peace with on another meaning we'd attract better offers. As all incoming people would not want to enter a minefield of a club to sort out.

:)

^ reply in bold.

But just like with Rafa Brendan has to show he has the balls to make tough decisions. He has to show he hasn't got the stubborness like Rafa had. However it is reaching a critical point and a bad result on Wednesday if we lose our next 2 or 3 league games then it could well be terminal for Brendan.

Against Ludogorets we really must start with Toure, Can, Lucas at the least.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 25, 2014, 10:15:08 AM
He put himself before the club with his "fact" rant, with his Drogba video, with his demands Parry sholuld get the sack, despite having complete Control over transfers, for engaging in open conflict with the owners when the club was on the brink of collapsing. All these actions was to the benefit of Rafa and the harm of the club no matter how you feel about the man. He just didn't put the club first.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 25, 2014, 11:49:51 AM
Hmmm and now you're really opening the debate....

Very good poins there indeed Ed. No one was happier than me when the news broke we appointed Rafa. I couldn't believe we got hold of the manager who played some of the best footy I've seen to this date with his Valencia. I was very very supportive of him for the first 3 seasons.

Agreed, win the champs league final in Istanbul, The FA cup in 2006 and then get to another Champs league final in 2007. What's not to like?

...there's no doubt in my mind he put himself Before the club when the club was very very vulnerable. I'll never forgive him for that, despite Istanbul

Excuse me? How the f*** did Rafa put himself before the club when he had to deal with the daylight robbery of hicks and gilette??? He did everything in his power to save the club, despite them...Finally when it looked like they were never going to leave and he made the heinous act of ending up 3 points away from a champs league position in his final year, he then had enough.

 :)

excellent post, Barticus (I snipped it above for brevity in my reply).   

It's refreshing to see sanity in this forum.

We have spoilt children here, who didn't appreciate Benitez.  They did not appreciate the CL finals and the all the trophies.  They did not appreciate him taking us to number one ranked club in Europe.  They did not appreciate the top players that he was able to bring to Anfield.  But most of all - they did not appreciate the toxic (almost impossible) environment that Benitez had to work in. 

And then these same spoilt children wanted him gone, and replaced with people like Hodgson, Dalglish, Martinez or Rodgers.....men who are not fit to lace Rafa's boots.

I have to tell myself, that if Liverpool supporters do not appreciate a highly skilled, top-class manager, like Benitez.....then perhaps we do not deserve someone of his ilk at the club.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 25, 2014, 11:56:12 AM
He put himself before the club with his "fact" rant, with his Drogba video, with his demands Parry sholuld get the sack, despite having complete Control over transfers, for engaging in open conflict with the owners when the club was on the brink of collapsing. All these actions was to the benefit of Rafa and the harm of the club no matter how you feel about the man. He just didn't put the club first.

what a load of cobblers, Martin.

the two toxic yanks were running the club into the ground.  They were carpet-baggers.  Rafa caught them on, early doors.

Benitez had an impossible job at times.  And I imagine, as chief executive, Parry (who I have a lot of respect for), was put in an impossible position - having to represent the owner's views, and also having to tell Rafa bad news (about transfer budgets, etc).

You never blame our carpet-bagger owners.  You always blame Rafa. 

Bizarre.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 25, 2014, 12:04:19 PM
Personally Dude the day Rafa told Xabi Alonso he couldn't be at the birth of his child and thus create that tension between the two which ended in Alonso being sold (at his own request) the following summer. That combined with the fact he couldn't get to grips with how to compete continously in the premier league didn't make me cry when he left. I never actually actively wanted to get rid of him dude. But I wasn't being pro-active in demanding he stayed either.

I said at the time I wanted a root and branch clear out of the club from owners to directors to the manager. Martin knew me then and will attest to that.


thanks for the honest and frank post, Edward.

Like you, I was surprised at his refusal to allow Alonso to take time off (from an important game, mind), to be with his wife when giving birth.  But none of us know, the discussions or internal politics behind the scenes.

But what people often forget, is that Alonso had a very poor season, the year before Rafa decided to sell him.

Re competing in the premier league.  I thought - given the working environment -  his premier league record was fantastic.  One second, and the rest of the years (apart from the last year) finishing in the top 4. 

Like Wenger at Arsenal, he almost guaranteed us CL football each season.

You say you wanted a full clear out of everyone at the club.  I cannot agree.

Continuity is key, in any organisation.  You can't be having soviet style, root and branch clearout - every few years, and expect the success to continue.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 25, 2014, 02:09:32 PM
Unfortunately, it all seem gone now.
What I think is odd is he got rid of Agger, but has massive defensive problems?

bought Balotelli and then undermined him with comments while his 1st choice
striker was out?

Invested £120 million and waved the white flag at the Bernabeu?

Al Pacino holed up in his fortress at the end of Scarface is a
model of rationality by comparison  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 25, 2014, 03:50:04 PM
What I think is odd is he got rid of Agger, but has massive defensive problems?

bought Balotelli and then undermined him with comments while his 1st choice
striker was out?

Invested £120 million and waved the white flag at the Bernabeu?

Al Pacino holed up in his fortress at the end of Scarface is a
model of rationality by comparison  ;D

 :D

I agree on all poins bar Agger who I think looked physically compromised towards the end + he make Sturridge look a physical beast in terms of injury proneness.

I don't mind the Real thingy that much really. He took a chance, it didn't work out. What's more problematic is he didn't stick with those who actually performed in that game (bar Allen) and went back to the usual underperforming suspects.

I Think we all agree the transfer business' been a fornicating disaster but our extremly weird model for handling it makes it difficult, at least for me, to lay sole blame at Rodges door.

The way he's handled Balotelli it's almost you suspect he wants him to be THAT Balotelli. Not much of that famous man-management there.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 25, 2014, 05:44:21 PM
Agger himself admits he couldn't hack the day to day and game to game of the premier league season anymore.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 26, 2014, 07:39:11 PM
Come on Jurgen Kop (before Arsenal get him)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30207942

because personally I'm through with the Brendan experiment
(I was never on board in the first place).
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 26, 2014, 09:39:56 PM
I could talk about many things about tonights game.

However Brendan's in game management was embarrassing. Only one sub? I mean REALLY! One Sub! No inclination to kill them off at all.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 27, 2014, 01:19:16 AM
However Brendan's in game management was embarrassing.
224, i would expect you to be supporting the manager
at this point, after all a comeback or revival has to start
somewhere. Like you really have to claw when you're at
rock bottom to get back into the race.

Support your man in his hour of need! It's a club tradition.

I note he made some changes in the line up, either he's
reading my posts (highly unlikely) or picking the team based
on what Jamie Carragher says (possible...). Besides, I also
said the keeper was up for dropping.

Anyway, I think it is in the best interests of the club that he
be given 6 weeks to sort out the mess he has gotten the
club into. If he can't do it he'll be a lame duck by the season's
end at which point Klopp should be given the gig.

Need to be making contact with Klopp now though, as I have
a sneaking suspicion Arsenal will be looking for a new manager
at the end of the season and London's generally a more
favourable destination for foreign coaches.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on November 27, 2014, 08:48:21 AM
224, i would expect you to be supporting the manager
at this point, after all a comeback or revival has to start
somewhere. Like you really have to claw when you're at
rock bottom to get back into the race.

Support your man in his hour of need! It's a club tradition.

I note he made some changes in the line up, either he's
reading my posts (highly unlikely) or picking the team based
on what Jamie Carragher says (possible...). Besides, I also
said the keeper was up for dropping.

Anyway, I think it is in the best interests of the club that he
be given 6 weeks to sort out the mess he has gotten the
club into. If he can't do it he'll be a lame duck by the season's
end at which point Klopp should be given the gig.

Need to be making contact with Klopp now though, as I have
a sneaking suspicion Arsenal will be looking for a new manager
at the end of the season and London's generally a more
favourable destination for foreign coaches.

Klopp's a football man first and foremost and I could easily see why he'd find us a more interesting project.

It's hard to support your manager when you realise he's blown it and there's no way back.

*He refuse to rest Gerrard to try something new.

*He refuse to change the formation to help the team regain confidence.

*He is unable to create proper siege-mentality.

*He's unwilling to  make necessary in-game changes.

That was indeed a scrappy draw. For long periods of the game Ludogorets outplayed us to an extent not even RM managed. I can't believe what I'm hearing when Carra say Sterling was very good. At what exatly? Yes, he had a good pass for our second (though I suspect it would've never reached its target against better opposition). Other than that he continuously gave up possession in dangerous areas, failed completely to deliver the ball into the box, their right back had a brilliant game and kept Sterling out of the game for long periods. I honestly cannot stand the special treatment the lad gets.

Lucas had a blinder. Easily his best game since Rodgers took over. He was everywhere and it felt almost weird to witness a holding midfielder do what a holding midfielder's supposed to do - protect and suppor the backline.

My MOTM though was Lambert who held the ball up very well and was a constant physical threat.

We looked knackered during the later stages of the game and I fear we'll struggle against Stoke. A draw at best.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 27, 2014, 07:52:50 PM
Klopp's a football man first and foremost and I could easily see why he'd find us a more interesting project.

It's hard to support your manager when you realise he's blown it and there's no way back.

*He refuse to rest Gerrard to try something new.

*He refuse to change the formation to help the team regain confidence.

*He is unable to create proper siege-mentality.

*He's unwilling to  make necessary in-game changes.
I think Klopp has shown a pedigree of winning leagues and doing well in Europe.
Arguably this was missing with the current manager.

I don't disagree with any of your assessment of Rodgers. I'm also not in the slightest
bit sentimental about the predicament that he has gotten himself into. I do, however,
like to see a manager's skills when the shed hits the fan, which is why I think he should
be given 6 weeks to put us back in contention for Europe and progress in the cup
competitions.
I can't believe what I'm hearing when Carra say Sterling was very good.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2014, 08:11:18 PM
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/17/article-1387757-0C19A9BC00000578-491_634x373.jpg)
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52785000/jpg/_52785730_brend_huw.jpg)

Here, let me help you out.

Pascoe looks like a flightless bird trying to take off.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 27, 2014, 09:23:23 PM
Pascoe looks like a flightless bird trying to take off.
Were those photos taken in response to us keeping a clean sheet,
Suarez saying he's homesick and wants to return to Anfield or
Stevie announcing his retirement  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2014, 11:04:46 PM
Question though is whether that's down to Rodgers or if the blame should be shared? From a structural point of view our problem seem to stem from a) the directive of the owners, i.e., buy young talent with potential which is then executed by a dysfunctional transfer-committee. Such a set up surely decreases transparency and the ability to point the finger. In short we don't know whether Lavezzi was a no go because of the directors, or because the transfer committee didn't rate him or because Rodgers didn't want him. It's a fornicating mess, a cluster fork if you like.

That sorta just sums it all up nicely.

Fallows and Hunter. Previously at Man City. Famed for unearthing hidden gems and rough diamond paying way over the odds on a bunch of averagely average players during Mark Hughes time there, and before that?

Hardly the sort of CV required. The entire recruitment area of the club needs a total overhaul, personnel and procedures. A manager must have the ultimate final say on the player selected to be brought to the club, whilst the board obviously have a say in valuation and remuneration.

Afterall, it's the manager that pays the ultimate price if the 'collection' of players don't get the results.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2014, 11:12:06 PM
Were those photos taken in response to us keeping a clean sheet,
Suarez saying he's homesick and wants to return to Anfield or
Stevie announcing his retirement  ;D

All three, simultaneously, and I'd never write to Santa again.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 27, 2014, 11:54:36 PM
The next managerial decision, and I've deliberately not said 'appointment', is the most crucial since Dalglish had to step down. At the time we missed the perfect and only candidate, Sir Bobby Robson.

If Rodgers doesn't turn it around or at least show signs in the next 5 league games, or we get embarrassed by Basel, then FSG have to make the right decision - he goes before the Winter window opens.

If Rodgers does turn it around but we fail to either win a trophy or get top 5, and at this stage, in the present context, UEFA Cup football seems appealing, then he goes at the end of the season.

However, FSG may get the decision wrong, and that's before the appointment's even been considered.

As far as Rafa goes, I see great parallels there with Cloughie. With Peter Taylor, brilliant. Without, average at best and then the alcohol really took hold. So no Pako, no Rafa.

I would go for Ancelotti. Absolutely. We need someone who can re-shape more than just the first 11 or first team squad. The scouting/recruitment has been a mess for a long time, probably since Paco Herrera left, and definitely before he arrived. It probably can be traced back all the way to the 'retirement' of Geoff Twentyman.

We really do need someone with his depth of experience, but also who is still very much in his prime and peak as a winning manager/coach, unlike someone like Van Gaal, who's best years are definitely behind him and have been for a while, despite his huge experience and previous success.

Klopp - has his bubble burst or have Dortmund really sold one star too many, even for them? I'd be uncomfortable with us being part of finding out the answer to that question. We experimented with Rodgers, and whilst Klopp wouldn't be a risk to that sort of degree, his track record before Dortmund was poor, and as with some players who are a perfect fit with only one club and an utter disaster wherever else they've been, there are managers like that too, and Klopp may or may not be one of them. Can we afford to take the risk?

Who else is there? There's no young prodigies out there, thankfully, and very few if any, solid performers ready and capable of taking the next and career defining step, ala Wenger at Grampus Eight or Taggart at Aberdeen.
Or is there another Shankly, who's bobbed around from job to job, solidly but ultimately unsuccessfully, simply not having had a job and a club that was the 'perfect fit'.

Rodgers may go on and eventually profit from this or may sink with barely a trace, but he's not got long to save his job and could do worse than having the removers ready on speed dial.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2014, 04:50:35 PM
Pascoe looks like a flightless bird trying to take off.

 ;D    he sure does.



(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/17/article-1387757-0C19A9BC00000578-491_634x373.jpg)

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52785000/jpg/_52785730_brend_huw.jpg)

but doesn't Brendan have a bit of the David Brent look, in those two images.

Maybe David Brent meets Alan Partridge.

Heck, maybe Norwich is a destination for our lad in the new year.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 28, 2014, 07:24:53 PM
Klopp - has his bubble burst or have Dortmund really sold one star too many, even for them? I'd be uncomfortable with us being part of finding out the answer to that question. We experimented with Rodgers, and whilst Klopp wouldn't be a risk to that sort of degree, his track record before Dortmund was poor, and as with some players who are a perfect fit with only one club and an utter disaster wherever else they've been, there are managers like that too, and Klopp may or may not be one of them. Can we afford to take the risk?
I agree Tes that regardless of a recovery, the Rodgers appointment appears to have
run its course. The white flag at the Bernabeu was the most embarrassed I've ever felt
as a supporter of the club.

On the subject of Klopp, we may not even get the chance to be so choosy, as Arsenal will
be looking for a long-term replacement for Wenger soon.

Just like with getting players, we exist in a context where we may be unable to
attract top-class managerial talent, unless the owners get the finger out.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 28, 2014, 07:40:28 PM
we used to have a widely respected European boss, who could identify and attract the finest, Torres and Mascherano, among them.

I am with Tes and Ed, in that we are not entirely sure of how Klopp would do in England.  Maybe his star is worn out.  I imagine his issues this year, have came about because Bayern kept taking his best players.  But who knows, if he is capable of rebuilding, and working in a different country.

Like Tes, my key issue with Rafa, is his estrangement from Pako.   Like Clough without Taylor, I have some doubts.

Mind you, he did quite well down at Chelsea. that half season.

The other worry, is that one cannot be confident that we have owners (or a chief executive), who have the necessary skills to identify and recruit a top boss.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on November 28, 2014, 09:28:26 PM
Until Brendan goes there is really no point discussing the next manager as it will end up being a futile debate.

Best thing is to just discuss the matters at hand.

I agree with Martin in that the transfer committee is a clusterf**k and the lack of figurehead to point the blame is a serious matter.

However we all know this summer that Lovren, Moreno and Lallana are definites that Rodgers wanted. The others (inc. summer of 2013) are up for debate.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2014, 09:40:10 PM
The other worry, is that one cannot be confident that we have owners (or a chief executive), who have the necessary skills to identify and recruit a top boss.

First they need to be able to identify a necessity, and then as Dude rightly says, have the requisite to get it right.

They didn't have the "canniness" to sit on their hands, and wait for the inevitable events at Stamford Bridge, before they gave Dalglish 3 years.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 28, 2014, 11:05:19 PM
Until Brendan goes there is really no point discussing the next manager as it will end up being a futile debate.

Best thing is to just discuss the matters at hand.

I agree with Martin in that the transfer committee is a clusterf**k and the lack of figurehead to point the blame is a serious matter.

However we all know this summer that Lovren, Moreno and Lallana are definites that Rodgers wanted. The others (inc. summer of 2013) are up for debate.

It's just as frustrating talking around in circles, as it is watching us in permanent deja vu mode. The owners/board etc really need to stop trying to translate what works/happens in American "sports" and jemmy it into an English football club. A thoroughbred may cover the ground quickly, but won't plough the field any quicker than a shire horse.

The committee idea doesn't work, but what seems to make it even worse are the names up for discussion (poor scouting?), and the positions those players will fill. If either or both aren't what's required then their decisions are going to be even more wrong. But who has decided or had a hand in deciding the positions that need strengthening and who has helped filter down the contenders and compile the final list that the committee considers and makes decisions on, whether it's on a collective list or a player by player at any given moment basis - if it even works anything like any of that in the first place.

There's a really simple fact though that the whole committee ethos totally misses - a manager has to want and believe in a player and a player has to belief and feel that the manager wants, trusts and believes in the player.

If it's not obvious, and it patently isn't, that the manager has chosen a player, how can a player have the required belief and confidence, firstly to sign for the club and if he gets beyond that point, feel that he is 'the manager's choice' once there and at any point whilst there . Players go through crises in confidence anyway, but any doubt about whether he really was originally wanted by the manager in the first place is only going to make things worse.

Too many players appear to have lost confidence and belief in themselves, and in their team mates as a collective, simultaneously.

How does Balotelli feel. Before he was signed the manager categorically and forcefully denied he would be anywhere near the club, and then after a handful of games the manager is placing blame on him personally, and in public. Now the first part could quite obviously have been a denial for the benefit of the press, and Balotelli should know whether that's the case or not, depending on whether contact had been made and discussions of any sort held, by the time Rodgers made the denial. How does the second part get explained away though?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on November 28, 2014, 11:21:16 PM
I think that the two debates can co-exist and
are not unrelated.

I presume that Dude and Tes have seen enough of
Rodgers at this point to have moved beyond the will
he won't he get it right, is he isn't he the right manager.
In fact, I think we were all just bemused by his appointment
in the first place and if you check the posts from roughly
3 years ago, I'm sure we all predicted the current malaise.

The issue of whether the owners have the ambition and/or
brains to turn us into a perennial top 4 club is a debate
worth having occasionally, imo.

Regarding Rafa, if he wins Serie A, there's a way back for him, imo.

The other debate concerns the current campaign and whether
Rodgers can turn it around under intense scrutiny at a top club.
Last time i looked we were still in all competitions (if top 4 is now
a competition) so there is plenty of scope to assess the appointment
that the owners made with Rodgers.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2014, 03:45:43 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3nhd6ACAAEvb4S.jpg:large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3ngf5FCYAAg5pu.jpg)

Today we attended the @LFCSupCom fan's forum with @spiritofshankly to voice our concerns about the extortionate ticket prices at @LFC

After the meeting we've regretfully made the decision that we will not take any flags onto The Kop until we have dialogue with @LFC.

The Basel match is looming and we want to support the team to the hilt. It's time the club supported us.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2014, 03:46:21 PM
trouble at mill.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2014, 03:48:22 PM
(http://i3.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article7999455.ece/alternates/s615/JS49396883.jpg)

(http://i4.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article7999456.ece/alternates/s615/JS49396852.jpg)


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2014, 03:58:24 PM
half time against Stoke.

Possession against the Stokites is 50/50

And neither side has had a single shot on target.

And in our last premiership game, versus Palace, we had one shot on target (for Lambert's goal in the second minute).

So all told, in the league, we have now not had one shot on target, in something like 135 minutes of football.

So for two hours and 15 minutes, not a single shot threatened the opposition's goal!

We must be close to a Liverpool record.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 29, 2014, 04:20:12 PM
how the f*** is Johnson on the field, so far so dire....
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2014, 04:25:22 PM
how the f*** is Johnson on the field, so far so dire....

they shot the wrong fuucking Kennedy   

(Bob Paisley quote)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on November 29, 2014, 04:43:01 PM
lol...it had to be johnson...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2014, 04:45:12 PM
how the f*** is Johnson on the field, so far so dire....

At last! Liverpool have the lead and it's some wonderful reactive play from Johnson. Gerrard swings in a cross and Lambert's looping header comes off the bar, but Johnson races in to get to the rebound first and the defender heads it into the net.

 :D :D :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2014, 05:06:05 PM
three points closer to the magic 40.

Stoke will leave Anfield with their tail between their legs.

 :-*
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2014, 05:09:09 PM
An excellent summing up of our transfer business from the Summer:

"After Suarez left for Barcelona in a 75 million-pound ($117.6 million) deal, Liverpool signed nine players for 130 million pounds, including big-money deals for Dejan Lovren, Lazar Markovic and Adam Lallana.

Having said previously that Liverpool needed a few players of genuine quality that could improve the first team, the club seemed to embark on a transfer policy designed to swell an under-strength squad rather than fine-tune a title-challenging team with the best talent.

Their rivals took another tack. Arsenal beat them to Chile’s Alexis Sanchez, who shone at the World Cup, Manchester United recruited high-profile names like Angel Di Maria and Radamel Falcao, while Chelsea brought in Diego Costa and Cesc Fabregas.

Of those who arrived in the wake of Suarez’s departure only Rickie Lambert, signed for 4 million pounds, and Javier Manquillo, loaned from Atletico Madrid, started Wednesday’s crucial Champions League qualifier against Ludogorets.
"

http://www.financialexpress.com/article/sports/liverpool-f-c-s-brendan-rodgers-joint-favourite-for-the-sack-in-premier-league/ (http://www.financialexpress.com/article/sports/liverpool-f-c-s-brendan-rodgers-joint-favourite-for-the-sack-in-premier-league/)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2014, 05:10:28 PM
three points closer to the magic 40.

Stoke will leave Anfield with their tail between their legs.

 :-*

I'll resist the urge to spew forth genitalia jokes.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on November 29, 2014, 05:13:25 PM
How long before Brendan starts talking about progress again, especially as we've won and kept a clean sheet, which is ironic, as you'd have Stoke down as one of the favourites to be able to take advantage of our inability to defend even the most straight forward set pieces.

 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2014, 05:48:50 PM
ns
How long before Brendan starts talking about progress again, especially as we've won and kept a clean sheet, which is ironic, as you'd have Stoke down as one of the favourites to be able to take advantage of our inability to defend even the most straight forward set pieces.

Stoke could have scored on several occasions today.  We got lucky.

And as for Brendan speaking of progress....no Tes, the magic word (favoured by all inadequate managers) is transition.

endless transition.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2014, 05:49:21 PM
I'll resist the urge to spew forth genitalia jokes.  ;D

 :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on November 29, 2014, 05:51:40 PM
An excellent summing up of our transfer business from the Summer:

"After Suarez left for Barcelona in a 75 million-pound ($117.6 million) deal, Liverpool signed nine players for 130 million pounds, including big-money deals for Dejan Lovren, Lazar Markovic and Adam Lallana.

Having said previously that Liverpool needed a few players of genuine quality that could improve the first team, the club seemed to embark on a transfer policy designed to swell an under-strength squad rather than fine-tune a title-challenging team with the best talent.

Their rivals took another tack. Arsenal beat them to Chile’s Alexis Sanchez, who shone at the World Cup, Manchester United recruited high-profile names like Angel Di Maria and Radamel Falcao, while Chelsea brought in Diego Costa and Cesc Fabregas.

Of those who arrived in the wake of Suarez’s departure only Rickie Lambert, signed for 4 million pounds, and Javier Manquillo, loaned from Atletico Madrid, started Wednesday’s crucial Champions League qualifier against Ludogorets.
"

http://www.financialexpress.com/article/sports/liverpool-f-c-s-brendan-rodgers-joint-favourite-for-the-sack-in-premier-league/ (http://www.financialexpress.com/article/sports/liverpool-f-c-s-brendan-rodgers-joint-favourite-for-the-sack-in-premier-league/)

pretty spot on.

I think the failure to bring in a top striker, will be fatal for Rodgers.

Sanchez would have been a great buy.

It's a sad state of affairs, when a top club like Livepool are dependent on a 32 year old makeweight to lead the line.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 01, 2014, 04:29:07 PM
Listen to the fans!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02d6py0
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on December 02, 2014, 08:20:27 PM
Nice link Ed.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Gurdeep on December 02, 2014, 08:37:16 PM
I think the one thing that gentlemen on the phone in forgot to mention is the fact that we have a weak setup at board level.  The owners, FSG, have tried their best to make the right decisions for this club.  Of that I have no doubt whatsoever.  But I believe the decisions that they have made  thus far have been made in consultation with a chief executive who is not fit for purpose.  I always wished and hoped for a David Dein type character or better still, David Dein himself.  A man who knows how to run a big club. Not some guy who cut his teeth at Huddersfield!




Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 02, 2014, 10:15:26 PM
totally agree, Gurdeep.

Ian Ayre, in my opinion, is nothing more than a good marketing man.

We have never got  over the loss of Rick Parry.  I know some, like Tes, never agreed with me on that one.

David Dein would have been a great acquisition. 

Our owners have no idea, and are dependent on the likes of Ayre and Rodgers.....neither of whom know the first thing about football success  IMHO.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 02, 2014, 10:33:01 PM
another three points closer to 40.

more comedy defensive work to behold.

never a good sign, when one is playing the bottom team in the premiership, and despite them being down to ten men, they are pinning you back in your own half for long periods.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 03, 2014, 12:30:37 AM
If that wasn't one of the worst peformances of the season. We were shambolic through 90 minutes. Utterly and completely outplayed by a 10-men Leicester. I actually thought they were much closer to 2-2 than we going 3-1 up. This ain't over. Pretty much any other team would've at least drawn us tonight, even Burnley.

I fear we'll come back down to earth on Saturday at home to Sunderland.

Brendan will destroy Sterling if he keeps starting him. The lad is so poor and void of confidence at this time it's painful to watch. Speaking of poor, for how long will Henderson be allowed to display worthless peformance after worthless peformance until Can gets a proper chance? Mignolet, don't fukin get me started!

Again, Rodgers decision to go with the same formation he's used thus far is really killing the game. Why is it so fuckin hard for him to admit he doesn't have the players to play that ball game? FUCKIN WHY? Can't he see the players are so confused and stressed they can't even get into the pressing game. Did we won one dead ball tonight?

Going through Newsnow you get the feeling we're on the right way For those of you who Think (oone I imagine) so, let's meet up again around 6 o'klock on Sunday December 21st.  The Mancs and Arsenal will beat us well and truly.

It has come to the point where I don't see a change in the way we play and perform until we change the manager. And it hurts. I was right about GH, I was right about Rafa, and I believe I'm right on this one as well, unfortunately.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 03, 2014, 05:43:52 AM
Interesting stat on Lucas this season...

Liverpool's record this season : P10, W7, D1, L2. They've won two of 11 games without him.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 03, 2014, 10:30:47 PM
Liverpool this season in all comps:

With Lucas: WWLWWLWDWW (7W, 1D, 2L)

Without Lucas: LWLDLWLDLLL (2W, 2D, 7L)


It's amazing what a good defensive-midfielder, can do to protect one's defence.   ;D

Perhaps even Brent will catch-on that Lucas is a good player.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 04, 2014, 12:09:10 PM
Liverpool this season in all comps:

With Lucas: WWLWWLWDWW (7W, 1D, 2L)

Without Lucas: LWLDLWLDLLL (2W, 2D, 7L)


It's amazing what a good defensive-midfielder, can do to protect one's defence.   ;D

Perhaps even Brent will catch-on that Lucas is a good player.

Nothing like the threat of the sack to concentrate the mind...us lot have been saying Gerrard can't do the defensive midfield thing for nearly a year, and in the end it was thing that cost us the premiership last year.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 04, 2014, 12:58:06 PM
absolutely, Bart.

indeed, I have been saying it for ten years.  Gerrard should never be allowed to sit in front of the defence or be in our last line.

For me, he would always have played wide right in midfield, or not at all.

Yes, we paid the ultimate price for having Gerrard at the back, in losing the title last season, to his piece of nonsense.

And across his career, he has given so many goals away, by mad pass backs, that has resulted in gifts for the opposition.

But as you say, re Rodgers, the threat of the sack helps the mind focus.   ;)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 05, 2014, 09:14:30 AM
This article outlines, for me at least, the main reason I'm convinced Rodgers isn't the right man. I'm not saying Henderson is completely without qualities or capabilities. But handing him a "very important role" also means other players present or future won't have it. In other words, we won't get better stuff than Henderson which also means we'll look at finishing 6-9 on a permanent basis.

Rodgers say we've now hit rock bottom and we'll come out of this stronger. Me, on the other hand, can see us draw, draw, lose, draw, lose our next five games against Sunderland, Basel, United, Bournemouth and Arsenal. That would effectively kill our season once and for all.

Bitterly disappointed with Rodgers. But it seems Dude, Ed and Tes was right he was too inexperienced for the job. I fear we'll witness Sakho rise to prominence elsewhere as well, while we're stuck with Skrtel and Lovren scratching our heads why our defense never work out.

http://www.squawka.com/news/brendan-rodgers-praises-impact-of-liverpools-jordan-henderson/238626 (http://www.squawka.com/news/brendan-rodgers-praises-impact-of-liverpools-jordan-henderson/238626)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 06, 2014, 01:54:06 PM
Henderson is out of form but he also suffers from not having movement from the strikers. As I said last season with two strikers with exceptional movement he blossomed.

For me its a temporary blip in regards to his form. I would say Henderson is one of those players that takes longer to get back into form because he hasn't the natural abilities of say other players in his role elsewhere like Fabregas or Toure or Ramsey that facilitates their cyclical movement of getting into form quicker. Henderson is more manufactured in that he had to work harder to attain the level he was at. So takes him longer to get back into form.

By handing him the vice captaincy it says that with hard work and good mentality plus a good attitude on and off the pitch that you can also one day attain that role within the squad. Plus who else is there for that role anyway.

I agree the next 5 games will be telling and will show whether Rodgers is right or not. I too can see defeats against the mancs and arsenal. Also see us drawing with Basle - especially if we are only 1-0 up going into the last 15 mins. So yes we shall see in a couple of weeks time.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 06, 2014, 03:56:54 PM
Terrible, terrible first half. Rodges says we've turned the corned. Yeah right we have. We'll draw this just as I predicted.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2014, 04:32:50 PM
it seems Dude, Ed and Tes was right, Brendan Rodgers was too inexperienced for the job.

welcome to the dark side, Martin. 

And Edward, you are welcome to come over too.

In our coven later this evening, we are holding a pagan communion at the altar of Sir Rafa.

 :)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 06, 2014, 04:50:56 PM
Here it goes:

Rodgers out!!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 06, 2014, 04:52:48 PM
Can't wait to here his bullshit about being outstanding, showing grit, determination an'all the crap he loves to spout.

THIS IS HOW IT fornicating GOES WHEN YOU PLAY SUBSTANDARD PLAYERS IN A FORMATION THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY. HOW fornicating DIFFICULT CAN IT BE TO GET? REALLY!!!!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 06, 2014, 05:11:50 PM
So frustrating and infuriating.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 06, 2014, 05:23:37 PM
So we sack Rodgers and then we start the vicious cycle again by giving a year of grace for a new manager (unless you are Hodgson of course) followed by a 2nd year of progression, followed by a 3rd year of stagnation. Never ending. I haven't reached the point where you are all now at - I think I am the only one now on this forum not wanting him sacked -  but i fully understand why you all feel this way. I will let you know when I am at the end of my tether with Rodgers. It's not their yet but the noose is tightening.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 06, 2014, 05:42:57 PM
It's a bit premature to be talking about the sack.

Currently, as I see it (and I don't watch the games),
it could be argued that he's made some changes and
is steadying the ship - I may be wrong, no problem.

He has this 6 weeks, to sort the season out, if we're
out of all competitions early January it speaks for itself
in terms of this season.

At which point, it seems fair to compare it with last season
and the first season and begin to ask the question not
concerning Rodgers future but the club's.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2014, 06:24:29 PM
THIS IS HOW IT fornicating GOES WHEN YOU PLAY SUBSTANDARD PLAYERS IN A FORMATION THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY. HOW fornicating DIFFICULT CAN IT BE TO GET? REALLY!!!!

the owners have to be asking, what did we get for the enormous amount of money we spent this summer (and in previous windows).

I have never seen a weaker Liverpool team, than the one I have watched these past few months.

it is scary.  There are issues all over the pitch.

The work our manager should have been doing his first two years, never got done.....and now we have a whole pile of issues.

We have no balance.  We have no organised defence.  We have no organised midfield.  And obviously we do not have a fit striker at the club, who is worthy of wearing the red shirt.

Suarez hid a mountain of issues.   

But now, with the little Uruguayian gone, our king has no clothes.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 06, 2014, 06:28:39 PM
Agreed Ed. I just feel it has to come to a point where we step off this vicious 3/4 year managerial circle and all that it entails and stick it out and grind it out for a bit.

There are problems very big problems but I am hesitant that anything meaningful would change were we to change the manager yet again.

Of course Brendan needs to be hold accountable for the players we have brought in, the tactics and preparation of the team etc. If/when we go out of the CL tuesday, if/when the mancs and arsenal beat us and if we don't manage to sign a striker in January and if we fail to get 4th at the end of the season and if we are still completely hopeless defensively and offensively then Brendan will need to be held accountable for that and do the honourable thing and resign.

HOWEVER as I said. I am sick and tired of this 3/4 year managerial cycle that we've have for 24 years where the manager gets 1 year period of grace, followed by 12-18 months of progression, followed for 12 months of stagnation or even worse going backwards (Houllier). I sick and tired of it. There has to come a time where we say stop. Where we say let's just grin and bare it for now and see what happens.

Or shall we start another cycle?

Also you think we're going be getting Klopp or Ancelotti or Guardiola. Give me a break. (FSG will never employ Rafa. The day they do will be the day Hell freezes over. Believe me on that

If/when Brendan goes our choices for manager will be one of Koeman, De Boer or Laudrup or even AVB.

Sorry for my rant  ;D

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 06, 2014, 06:42:15 PM
HOWEVER as I said. I am sick and tired of this 3/4 year managerial cycle that we've have for 24 years where the manager gets 1 year period of grace, followed by 12-18 months of progression, followed for 12 months of stagnation or even worse going backwards (Houllier). I sick and tired of it. There has to come a time where we say stop. Where we say let's just grin and bare it for now and see what happens.

Or shall we start another cycle?

Is there a choice really, Edward? I too hate this 3-4 year managerial cycle. Back in the day I would've agreed. Thing is we're one of 7 clubs being investigated for overspending. Unfortunately, there's no if-you-wasted-a-couple-of-hundred-millions-on-utter-crap-we-don't-care-clause. This means the next 2-3 years are already a lost cause. We could stick with Brendan through this, of course, but why not bring in a manager who has at least the basics of this game instead of this I'm-gonna-play-my-tiki-taka-footy-despite-having-a-shine-a-light-squad-stubborness.

I'm just so pissed off he got caught up in his own success. Thought more of the man.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 06, 2014, 06:45:27 PM
Agreed Ed. I just feel it has to come to a point where we step off this vicious 3/4 year managerial circle and all that it entails and stick it out.
btw, in no way shape or form am I suggesting we
continue to employ mr. Rodgers.

The key question to be answered, imo, is can we
trust him anymore??

I agree with Dude's point regarding the first two years
and Suarez.

Why, I'm patient 'til January is because from the club's point
of view I think we need to learn what the problems are for
the club, where we are, what we need.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2014, 08:07:09 PM
Brendan Rodgers claimed after the game that: “We can’t always rely on Stevie. His talent is world-class but that contribution has to come around the team. It can’t be up to him every single game to be the catalyst.

“It is very hard to replace that quality but going forward that is something of course we will need."

“He was excellent when he came on and of course he plays on Tuesday."

“He still has that talent, he has world-class ability and it is me looking to manage that."

“We have a big month. Until the new year there are big games and the management of Steven is fine, there is no problem with that.”

Only Aston Villa and Burnley have scored fewer goals at home than Liverpool’s seven and Rodgers’ decision to leave Fabio Borini out of the squad — meaning he had no striker on the bench — was questioned.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 06, 2014, 08:14:21 PM
Rodgers is still talking BS about the club and Gerrard.

Gerrard is s.h.i.t.e.

The lad we cannot fecken do without, is Lucas.

Why won't some reporter or journalist cite to Rodgers the data regarding what happens to Liverpool results, when Lucas does play, and when he doesn't play.

And on the same theme, ask the Brentmaster General, about our results when Gerrard is in, and not in the team.

I cannot be having any more of Rodger's BS.  He needs to be cornered by a journalist worthy of the name, and answers demanded of himm.

It is not fair on other lads who deserve recognition, and praise, to see this endless moronic fact-less sycophant BS being uttered by our manager.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 06, 2014, 08:47:55 PM
Who we going to bring in then Martin to do as you requested?

We won't be getting any tier 1 managers any time soon. Klopp is Arsenal bound next season. Guardiola is going to Manchester in 2016 or 2017. Ancelotti too may well end up in Manchester or he will go back to Italy (Juve, Milan or the national team.)

So what's next? Only managers that are basically in the same boat and we'll have this merry go round them all every 3-5 years.

A few things need to be remedied. We MUST have transparency on who is involved in the transfer committee and who is accountable for what.

Brendan has to sort himself out now and fix this mess. It is a mess and he has made many mistakes. So he has to be accountable for them.

If he continues to play his favourites and discount the likes of Lucas and Sakho then he will only have himself to blame.

So he is at a cross roads right now with us. Most definitely the remainder of this season will indicate whether or not he has chosen wisely or not.

Another thing we have to consider is that will he be allowed to spend in January? We have no option imo but to spend. With Lambert and Balotelli as our only options we won't finish higher than 6th or 7th.

As I said I can understand you all wanting rid of Brendan and I am the only solitary person on the forum still on the side of him not wanting him sacked - but the noose is tightening every game slowly and slowly for me at the moment. But I am not there yet and I don't know when that point will come.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 06, 2014, 09:12:49 PM
Who we going to bring in then Martin to do as you requested?

We won't be getting any tier 1 managers any time soon. Klopp is Arsenal bound next season. Guardiola is going to Manchester in 2016 or 2017. Ancelotti too may well end up in Manchester or he will go back to Italy (Juve, Milan or the national team.)

So what's next? Only managers that are basically in the same boat and we'll have this merry go round them all every 3-5 years.

A few things need to be remedied. We MUST have transparency on who is involved in the transfer committee and who is accountable for what.

Brendan has to sort himself out now and fix this mess. It is a mess and he has made many mistakes. So he has to be accountable for them.

If he continues to play his favourites and discount the likes of Lucas and Sakho then he will only have himself to blame.

So he is at a cross roads right now with us. Most definitely the remainder of this season will indicate whether or not he has chosen wisely or not.

Another thing we have to consider is that will he be allowed to spend in January? We have no option imo but to spend. With Lambert and Balotelli as our only options we won't finish higher than 6th or 7th.

As I said I can understand you all wanting rid of Brendan and I am the only solitary person on the forum still on the side of him not wanting him sacked - but the noose is tightening every game slowly and slowly for me at the moment. But I am not there yet and I don't know when that point will come.
Fair enough 224, I agree with most of your analysis there.

Where, I tend to disagree is your argument about the managers.
Hiring a top manager is about selling the vision and ambition of the club,
making us an attractive prospect, so the question there is whether we
have the chief executive and/or owners capable of doing that.

Then there's the procedure, If you recall the process leading up to the
current managerial appointment, it was shambolic. Have lessons been
learned to go about things in advance of a media frenzy?

One of the lessons from the Rodgers appointment is the risk involved in hiring a
manager without a track record. At the same time every manager needs to
start somewhere. There are guys out there who may not be considered tier 1
now but who are working away successfully, possibly disgruntled, at other
clubs winning things or consistently competing at the top level (Klopp, is it Simeone
who manages Athletico?).and would bite your arm off to work at LFC.

What's essential is the talent, hunger and class of the manager, if we can't get the
current darlings of the media. But again this is down to the talent and ambition of
the chief executive and owners.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 06, 2014, 09:35:25 PM
Who we going to bring in then Martin to do as you requested?

We won't be getting any tier 1 managers any time soon. Klopp is Arsenal bound next season. Guardiola is going to Manchester in 2016 or 2017. Ancelotti too may well end up in Manchester or he will go back to Italy (Juve, Milan or the national team.)

So what's next? Only managers that are basically in the same boat and we'll have this merry go round them all every 3-5 years.

A few things need to be remedied. We MUST have transparency on who is involved in the transfer committee and who is accountable for what.

Brendan has to sort himself out now and fix this mess. It is a mess and he has made many mistakes. So he has to be accountable for them.

If he continues to play his favourites and discount the likes of Lucas and Sakho then he will only have himself to blame.

So he is at a cross roads right now with us. Most definitely the remainder of this season will indicate whether or not he has chosen wisely or not.

Another thing we have to consider is that will he be allowed to spend in January? We have no option imo but to spend. With Lambert and Balotelli as our only options we won't finish higher than 6th or 7th.

As I said I can understand you all wanting rid of Brendan and I am the only solitary person on the forum still on the side of him not wanting him sacked - but the noose is tightening every game slowly and slowly for me at the moment. But I am not there yet and I don't know when that point will come.

There are some very good points there Edward and I have to admit my childish sacking rant might express more my post-game(s) frustration than being a statement born out of rational analysis. I am, however, utterly convinced Rodgers won't be able to fix this. When he look back at his career in a few years time he will shake his head at this naiveity in playing a 4-2-3-1 formation with this squad.

In other words, I realise he won't be sacked any time soon. And the main reason for that being what Ed so brilliantly put in his reply to you, we don't have the people connected to the club to sell the Project/prospect to the right manager.

The main reason for axing him now is he can't be trusted with more money. . We need to save them for the new manager or we will be utterly and completely unable to attract a tier 1 manager. Keeping him with this squad for the rest of the season will destroy it mentally meaning we'll need to completely new set up.

It is a mess indeed.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 07, 2014, 12:33:38 AM
Well Martin that is the whole crux of the matter.

You say he can't be trusted with more money and you may well be right.

However with no transparency or accountability of who is in the transfer committee and who makes the decisions then, ultimately how do we know that he can be trusted or not?

We can sell our vision and ambition of the club but is doesn't matter one iota. Not one iota.

Klopp WANTS to be Arsenal manager. Guardiola WANTS to be a Man Utd manager. Simeone wants to manage in Italy next. Don't tell me how I know, I just do. You can sell ice to the eskimos but you will never ever sell LFC to those three.

We can have power point presentations, we can have 1000 pages of what our visions and ideals and ambition for the club. Fact of the matter is that we are 5th on the list of clubs in england for top managers - well not top but let's say elite - to manage. Both Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal are all much more attractive. Because of these reasons:-

1:- Man City and Chelsea have unlimited money.

2:- Man Utd are the biggest club in england.

3:- Arsenal have the 2nd biggest turnover in england and 20 years of stability.

We are way below them. So sell visions and ambition all you want. It won't matter one iota to those elite managers. Because they know who they want to manage in england already.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 07, 2014, 03:11:38 AM
I am, however, utterly convinced Rodgers won't be able to fix this.
I think so too. Fair play he's managed to steady the ship and eke out some results,
but that's nowhere near enough of what's expected of the manager of LFC. Granted
he'll buy himself some time if he makes it out of the CL group, but then it's off to Old
Trafford at the weekend and on to the quarter final of the Cap 1 Cup.  This is football
at a top club and is why there's no room for suspect decision-making in the transfer
market.

You say he can't be trusted with more money and you may well be right.
It's more the return on investment that is worrying, Comolli for all his faults bought Suarez.
I see very little that's come in under Rodgers which has increased in value and we can't
afford another one. Having said that, we need a striker to continue the season, it's a complete
write off otherwise.

I think it's up to the manager though to either get Balotelli/Borini to start scoring goals or bring
the lad in who was loaned out to France.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 07, 2014, 07:11:23 PM
Well Martin that is the whole crux of the matter.

You say he can't be trusted with more money and you may well be right.

However with no transparency or accountability of who is in the transfer committee and who makes the decisions then, ultimately how do we know that he can be trusted or not?

We can sell our vision and ambition of the club but is doesn't matter one iota. Not one iota.

Klopp WANTS to be Arsenal manager. Guardiola WANTS to be a Man Utd manager. Simeone wants to manage in Italy next. Don't tell me how I know, I just do. You can sell ice to the eskimos but you will never ever sell LFC to those three.

We can have power point presentations, we can have 1000 pages of what our visions and ideals and ambition for the club. Fact of the matter is that we are 5th on the list of clubs in england for top managers - well not top but let's say elite - to manage. Both Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal are all much more attractive. Because of these reasons:-

1:- Man City and Chelsea have unlimited money.

2:- Man Utd are the biggest club in england.

3:- Arsenal have the 2nd biggest turnover in england and 20 years of stability.

We are way below them. So sell visions and ambition all you want. It won't matter one iota to those elite managers. Because they know who they want to manage in england already.

I would agree a lot with your point on accountability and transparency. That's also why I wonder whether FSG are fit to run this club in the long term. They've done a great job to drag us back from the brink, but they don't seem to understand the game at all.

I just feel we're back where we were under Hodgson and Dalglish.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 07, 2014, 10:36:25 PM
FSG have had tentative talks with AVB. It's in the Times tomorrow.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 07, 2014, 11:45:20 PM
FSG have had tentative talks with AVB. It's in the Times tomorrow.
Well it's good that they are actively monitoring the situation
and talking to people. The fixtures in the next two weeks could
be decisive in terms of our season.

I note Andy Carroll back on the scoresheet today with 2 trademark finishes
boosting them up to 3rd. People can say what they like about him but his
attitude was always spot on. We sold him for £15 million and bought Balotelli
for £16 million. Are we better or worse off and what is the grand plan that I'm
missing?? The only justification for buying Balotelli at £16 million would be to
turn him into a £35 million player.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 08, 2014, 02:53:49 AM
FSG have had tentative talks with AVB. It's in the Times tomorrow.

that is terrifying news.

AVB is not fit to manager in the Doctor Martin League (no disrespect, Martin), farless the premiership.  He is actually, if anything, worse than Rodgers.

If our owners try and employ AVB, there will be riots in the streets.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 08, 2014, 03:38:10 AM
that is terrifying news.

AVB is not fit to manager in the Doctor Martin League (no disrespect, Martin), farless the premiership.  He is actually, if anything, worse than Rodgers.

If our owners try and employ AVB, there will be riots in the streets.
Didn't they speak to him before or there were rumours, he
was prized back then on the back of his success with Porto.

He hasn't done the business in the PL and was no doubt
blessed with significant resources at Chelsea and Spurs.
Arguably he did achieve something in Europe but, not since.

Strangely, when the spotlight moves away from the incompetence
currently been shown by Rodgers and starts to shine on the incompetents
who employed him...

It's f**king b*llshit, Rick Parry went out and got us Rafa Benitez when
the club was being held together like a dandelion in the breeze by
Mr. Moores. Given that the room to manoeuvre is far greater than back
then it boils down to the fact that we need a Chief Executive who can
match the history, class and ambition of the club.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 08, 2014, 08:15:03 AM
that is terrifying news.

AVB is not fit to manager in the Doctor Martin League (no disrespect, Martin), farless the premiership.  He is actually, if anything, worse than Rodgers.

If our owners try and employ AVB, there will be riots in the streets.

And I will quit my job, sell the hous and leave my family to join the masses. That's horibble news if true. I'll do an Ed for sure if that happens.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 08, 2014, 03:01:07 PM
if AVB is our level now, then I propose:

Tim Sherwood

Roy Keane

Neil Lennon

Ally McCoist

Andy Townsend

Stephen Gerrard

Jamie Carragher
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 08, 2014, 06:14:40 PM
As I said the other day all this spouting our vision and ambition boll-ocks is just that. Boll-ocks.

Elite level managers already know what clubs they want to manage.

You can sell water to fish, ice to eskimos and grass to cows but you cannot sell LFC to certain managers. I haven't said ALL elite managers. Just the ones that are most talked about at the moment.

Don't blame FSG either. Having stabilised us, given us well over £250m to spend and improved the infrastructure and revenue stream for the club imo they are doing a good job. True they wanted a certain type of manager in 2012 and targeted those. AVB, Martinez and Rodgers. They also wanted a DoF but acquiesced to Brendan and started this transfer committee nonsense - their only mistake. Well hiring Commolli was another.....

But the upcoming few weeks will test their resolve.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 08, 2014, 07:06:04 PM
As I said the other day all this spouting our vision and ambition boll-ocks is just that. Boll-ocks.

Elite level managers already know what clubs they want to manage.
Football would be a very boring world if it followed your logic.

I think when Guardiola was born, a nurse (United fan) hypnotised him
and told him that he had to manage Utd. in 2016.

Nobody knows what the future holds, it's why we call it a funny old game.
Tories join Ukip, strange sh*t happens and there are no certainties. But
if you don't get off your bottom and go out there and convince people or
players of why LFC is the best place for them, some other club usually
does.

The fact is nobody takes Ayre seriously and that's why we get lumped with mediocrity.
Change that detail and other things begin to change.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 09, 2014, 04:34:26 PM
To be honest I would have picked AVB long before Brendan Rodgers in the first place. He won the Portuguese league, cup and Europa league with Porto. Got sacked by Chelski 3 points off 4th in March and the following season got Tottenham's best ever points total and missed out on top 4 on the last day.

I think he has considerable more nous than Sherwood, Keane et al, but is he good enough? Serious doubts.
FSG are obviously sadly not going to go for Rafa, Klopp is nailed on for Arsenal and Ancelotti would be ideal and Real Madrid are certainly idiotic to sack him, but that would be in the summer and by then the attraction of Champs League would be gone. Can't think of many others.
HUGE game tonight, Lucas had better play and Rodgers better get his fecking lineup right.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 09, 2014, 07:50:28 PM
Lucas starts.

Sad, that a team of Liverpool's stature starts, such an important must-win game, with one striker of any note - a 34 year old.

Our only hope is the crowd.

I fear that Basel will win tonight.  And if we go behind, they could win by a few.  Lucas stands between us competing and getting pasted.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 09, 2014, 08:11:12 PM
Weak pass from Mignolet....dilly dallying in defence...terrible play...give the ball away....excellent goal from frei....pathetic from us...basel harry all of our players as soon as they have the ball and never give us time....reminds me of how we used to play....
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 09, 2014, 08:30:13 PM
Surely to feck coutinho and lallana have to come on...ideally lovren and johnson come off as well...cos they are beyond shine-a-light...and i'm not even mentioning allen and henderson....at least sterling is trying...and without lucas this would be embarrassing...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 09, 2014, 08:33:18 PM
HALF TIME

the Swiss champions are comfortably ahead at Anfield.

we don't even deserve to be on zero.

I predicted last season that Rodgers would be embarrassed in the Champions League.

These are very different days, to when Rafa had us bossing Europe.

Sadly, morons successfully demanded that he be sacked.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 09, 2014, 08:43:54 PM
Outclassed and outplayed in the worst performance of the season at home. Some player's contribution hardly helps. Have taken notes on Sterling in first half. Here goes:

*Weak pass to Johnson in the box.
*Failed dribble.
*Lose ball to throw in.
*Backward pass at the half-way line.
*Wins a corner by good pressing.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Wins free-kick outside the right corner of the box.
*Wins free-kick at the half-way line.
*Failed reception of the ball in the box.
*Free in the box misses pass.
*Backward pass outside the box.
*7 meter sideways pass at the half-way line.
*3 meter sideways pass at the half-way line.
*Short pass near offensive corner flag.
*Succesful dribble but weak shot at goal.
*Sideways and backward pass at the half-way line.
*Concedes free-kick at half-way line.
*Failed pass through the center.
*Failed head pass half-way up the opponents half.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Wins the ball at the half-way line but fail the following pass.
*Failed pass.

I might have missed a few touches but they had similar results. This is shockingly poor.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 09, 2014, 08:44:14 PM
These are very different days, to when Rafa had us bossing Europe.

Sadly, morons successfully demanded that he be sacked.

Exactly, Dude....remember when we used to have those glorious nights under Rafa, where we would fight for every ball and never leave the opposition to play fancy possession football...we have now become the antithesis of that...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 09, 2014, 08:44:54 PM
And the fornicating idiot brings on Markovic and Moreno. Congrats Basel. You deserved to go through against such a shitty team with such an incompetent manager.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 09, 2014, 08:46:23 PM
I'm 45mins away from being in the Rodgers out camp.

How on earth can he leave out our two best creative and imaginative players in a game where we will need to create chances is simply at best a terrible move and at worse a dereliction of duty.

Basel have been by far the superior team.

We've been out fought, out thought and out classed.

Defence is simply a joke. Just a joke. All of them are poor defenders.

Our transfer recruitment is the bullet that is heading Brendan's way to fire him. He knew and we all knew that we couldn't rely upon.

OH FFS MARKOVIC AND MORENO ON. WHERE IS LALLANA WHERE IS COUTINHO?!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 09, 2014, 08:57:24 PM
Exactly, Dude....remember when we used to have those glorious nights under Rafa, where we would fight for every ball and never leave the opposition to play fancy possession football...we have now become the antithesis of that...

precisely, Bart.

I am watching here the Swiss champions (Switzerland, a country of 8 million people), totally bossing us at Anfield.

They are entirely controlling the midfield.

We have a 34 year old journeyman leading the line for us.

And David Brent has not got a clue as to what to do.

Yes, morons got us to this point....getting our best manager since Paisley, sacked.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 09, 2014, 09:05:15 PM
we are now down to ten men.

we used to be a disciplined club.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 09, 2014, 09:15:42 PM
FFS....lol even....we take Lucas off instead of Henderson....Rodgers is a fool...get rid now...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 09, 2014, 09:22:54 PM
stunning free-kick

about time
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 09, 2014, 09:28:34 PM
Basel are rattled.

One chance is all we need.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 09, 2014, 09:35:57 PM
Basel were better.....fair play to the players for the final 10 mins ....but joke line up and that's down to one man. Rodgers.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 09, 2014, 09:37:41 PM
Rodgers out.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 09, 2014, 09:40:34 PM
we bossed the final 20 minutes.

Basel bossed us over the 3 hours of football, that we played home and away.

They deserved to go through.

But overall, a desperately poor set of six group games for us.  We won only one game from the six  - despite playing minnows like Basel and Ludicrous four times.

I think Rodgers should go, and go soon.

Maybe a defeat at Old Trafford at the weekend, will be enough to force the hand of FSG.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 09, 2014, 09:41:21 PM
Rodgers out.

we are now all in agreement.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 09, 2014, 09:43:38 PM
we are now all in agreement.

Sadly yes.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 09, 2014, 09:49:51 PM
we are now all in agreement.

Sadly we are.

You really could tell from his look in the second half he realised it's all over, and I don't mean our CL adventure.

They gave it a go last 10 but that was always going to happen if we could claw one back. The wrong line-up and the wrong formatin cost us progressin to the KO's.

How poor Sterling and Henderson have to be to be dropped I don't know, and I'm not sure I want to.

Rodgers is a weak manager sticking with his favorites despite underpeforming game after game. Can't respect such a manager. It applied to GH and Rafa and it sure as hell does for Rodges.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 09, 2014, 09:52:09 PM
Maybe a defeat at Old Trafford at the weekend, will be enough to force the hand of FSG.
Could be Dude, it would put them ten points clear of us and represent
a massive turnaround in fortunes for both clubs.

Seems ridiculous that as a club we are, once again, reduced to having
the game at Old Trafford, which has nothing to do with the season as
a whole, being our biggest game of the season.

But what is even more f**king ridiculous is that the feeder and dumping
clubs that we have done business with over the last few years are all currently
above us in the table i.e. Southampton, Swansea and West Ham. If ever
there were a clearer example of the desperate predicament the club finds itself
under Rodgers in then surely that must be it.

We're in the Europa league, I remember someone once said it was a blessing not
to be in it...

Skulks off to hibernate for a while, 'tis gonna be a cold winter  :)

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 09, 2014, 09:54:56 PM
I'm finding myself really quite angry tbh. Really angry and I want to vent out that at something!

If he talks about showing character I swear I'll go down to melwood and smack him.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 09, 2014, 09:58:49 PM
So Gerrard said Lambert wasn't fit and Borini ain't even on the bench.

If that isn't gross negligence then I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 09, 2014, 10:43:43 PM
Could be Dude, it would put them ten points clear of us and represent
a massive turnaround in fortunes for both clubs.

Seems ridiculous that as a club we are, once again, reduced to having
the game at Old Trafford, which has nothing to do with the season as
a whole, being our biggest game of the season.

But what is even more f**king ridiculous is that the feeder and dumping
clubs that we have done business with over the last few years are all currently
above us in the table i.e. Southampton, Swansea and West Ham. If ever
there were a clearer example of the desperate predicament the club finds itself
under Rodgers in then surely that must be it.

We're in the Europa league, I remember someone once said it was a blessing not
to be in it...

Skulks off to hibernate for a while, 'tis gonna be a cold winter  :)

And long I reckon.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 11, 2014, 10:44:57 AM
I'm finding myself really quite angry tbh. Really angry and I want to vent out that at something!

If he talks about showing character I swear I'll go down to melwood and smack him.

So Gerrard said Lambert wasn't fit and Borini ain't even on the bench.

If that isn't gross negligence then I don't know what is.

Welcome to 'chez Tes'. Come on in, make yourself at home. We have 5 'frustration rooms', graded accordingly to what our manager has done or not done - I'm sure at your stage of being you'll find them more than useful and accommodating to your developing needs.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 11, 2014, 10:51:43 AM
I am watching here the Swiss champions (Switzerland, a country of 8 million people), totally bossing us at Anfield.

Some perspective Dude, please. They invented the cuckoo clock, fondu and the brilliant Toblerone. These are not an ordinary flavour of human beingness.  :D

How ironic that the former manager of Swansea totally outwits the former manager of Swansea.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 11, 2014, 10:59:21 AM
Reports are emerging this morning Sterling is said to be "unhappy" with the new contract proposal the club has offered. Well, considering he's one of the most overrated players around I wouldn't crawl to him upping the figures. Here's my notes from his first half contribution against Basel where he was no better or worse he's been for most of this season. He can fack off for all I care if 70 ain't enough.

*Weak pass to Johnson in the box.
*Failed dribble.
*Lose ball to throw in.
*Backward pass at the half-way line.
*Wins a corner by good pressing.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Wins free-kick outside the right corner of the box.
*Wins free-kick at the half-way line.
*Failed reception of the ball in the box.
*Free in the box misses pass.
*Backward pass outside the box.
*7 meter sideways pass at the half-way line.
*3 meter sideways pass at the half-way line.
*Short pass near offensive corner flag.
*Succesful dribble but weak shot at goal.
*Sideways and backward pass at the half-way line.
*Concedes free-kick at half-way line.
*Failed pass through the center.
*Failed head pass half-way up the opponents half.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Wins the ball at the half-way line but fail the following pass.
*Failed pass.

That's the average Sterling for you, although I might have missed a couple of sideways/backward passes. 
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 11, 2014, 12:05:40 PM
Reports are emerging this morning Sterling is said to be "unhappy" with the new contract proposal the club has offered. Well, considering he's one of the most overrated players around I wouldn't crawl to him upping the figures. Here's my notes from his first half contribution against Basel where he was no better or worse he's been for most of this season. He can fack off for all I care if 70 ain't enough.

*Weak pass to Johnson in the box.
*Failed dribble.
*Lose ball to throw in.
*Backward pass at the half-way line.
*Wins a corner by good pressing.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Wins free-kick outside the right corner of the box.
*Wins free-kick at the half-way line.
*Failed reception of the ball in the box.
*Free in the box misses pass.
*Backward pass outside the box.
*7 meter sideways pass at the half-way line.
*3 meter sideways pass at the half-way line.
*Short pass near offensive corner flag.
*Succesful dribble but weak shot at goal.
*Sideways and backward pass at the half-way line.
*Concedes free-kick at half-way line.
*Failed pass through the center.
*Failed head pass half-way up the opponents half.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Failed pass into the box.
*Wins the ball at the half-way line but fail the following pass.
*Failed pass.

That's the average Sterling for you, although I might have missed a couple of sideways/backward passes.

In a nutshell, the whole contract thing is the definition of modern football. He's young, his whole career is ahead of him, not behind, and whilst he progressed a lot last season when the team were playing well going forward and he had Sturridge and Suarez to play with and off, this season his progress has again stalled.

A truly great player, of any age, makes a difference irrespective of the standard of his team mates. Sterling has had 'moments' this season, but has not done it consistently. Even taking into account the massive over inflation of modern football's wage levels, a player under 25 doesn't deserve to be on £100k a week or more, unless he is doing what Messi did for Barca or Ronaldo did for the Mancs, game in, game out, season in, season out befoe they reached the age of 25.

Suarez could be credited with 'carrying us' last season, the same can't be said about Sterling this season, despite our dire need, and the stage being set for him to be our true 'stand out' player, he simply hasn't stepped up to the mark.

He's what, 20 years old? £75k, all things considered, would be a fair offer. It can be reviewed again at the end of each season, and what these players all forget is that they get a pay rise when they perform above previous levels, but if their level 'drops back', their pay doesn't accordingly.

Give Sterling 'everything' at a young age, then you take away hunger and motivation to a degree. He needs to be put in his place if he's getting ahead of himself and if he doesn't like it then he can go and join a bunch of mercenaries elsewhere.

I'd rather see us stuck in mid-table but with a group of players busting their balls for the club, than have a group of money minded, money driven players keeping us challenging.

Is that daft? Probably, but our club was built on a set of values, beliefs and principles which I happen to believe in on a personal level too, and just because something isn't 'en vogue' doesn't make it 'old fashioned' or reduce it's credibility.

Here endeth today's sermon.  ;D

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 11, 2014, 12:08:02 PM
Reports are emerging this morning Sterling is said to be "unhappy" with the new contract proposal the club has offered.

Sell him so Rodgers can invest £20M apiece on the next Victor Moses and Wellfried Zaha.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 11, 2014, 01:16:18 PM
Fantastic article by Marcotti

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-united-blog/68/post/2190637/liverpool-brendan-rodgers-must-stick-to-his-roots-in-order-to-rescue-the-reds

Brendan Rodgers had a bumpy start to his Anfield career. At times, the "Being Liverpool" documentary even felt like a parody. After a 3-1 Boxing Day defeat at Stoke in 2012-13 -- the midpoint of the campaign -- Liverpool found themselves 10th in the table, 21 points off the top. In the second half of the season, they gained 36 points. Had they kept that pace all year long, they would have been fifth, one point away from the Champions League.

You know what happened next. Liverpool finished second in 2013-14, letting the title slip away with that 2-0 home defeat to Chelsea and the 3-3 draw at Crystal Palace. And you know where they are now: out of the Champions League and ninth in the Premier League, 15 points off the top.

In terms of results, they are back where they were in the first half of Rodgers' regime: 25 points from 19 league games, 1.31 points per game vs. 1.4 points per game this season. In the 18 months in-between, they were a wholly different side, capable of gaining 119 points in 57 matches, or 2.09 per game.

So what's the difference? The simplistic, stock answer is: Daniel Sturridge. He arrived in January 2013 and broke down after three games in 2014-15. He hasn't been back since. His presence coincides with Rodgers' Liverpool doing well. In his absence, they've done badly.

The loss of Luis Suarez, of course, was also a huge blow. He's gone and he's irreplaceable.

That's one way to look at it, and a tempting one to some. It distills the game down to individuals. When Rodgers had two world-class strikers to paper over his cracks, he was devastating. Without them, he's not.

Rodgers and Liverpool are struggling but it can be fixed if the manager returns to his successful roots.

There's a problem with this thinking. First, there were 17 games over that 18 month period during which either Sturridge or Suarez was unavailable. Liverpool gained 2.24 points in those games, which is actually better than their record when they had both.

Second, it implies that Rodgers' contribution is irrelevant and that he's only as good as his front two. You can choose to believe that, if you like, or you can give him the benefit of the doubt, as I choose to do, based on his body of work at Swansea.

Liverpool's improvement, beginning in January 2013, was not solely down to the arrival of Sturridge. Indeed, it had little to do with signings. Other than Simon Mignolet and Philippe Coutinho, none of those who arrived in that 18 month spell enjoyed significant playing time.

The difference came on the training pitch. Rodgers developed a system that allowed Suarez and Sturridge to thrive together. (And, just as important, as the stats show, on their own.)

While it's true that Suarez and Sturridge contributed greatly to the Reds' success, it's not all down to them.

Jordan Henderson, derided by many, became a better player -- and an England fixture. Raheem Sterling developed into a star. Sturridge -- a guy who arrived with a reputation, however unfair it may have been, as a "bad egg" -- showed he wasn't just a great player, he was a good professional as well. Steven Gerrard scored 18 goals in those 18 months -- as many as he had notched in the previous three years.

You don't want to reduce Suarez to mere numbers, but he did score 43 goals in 48 league games since that fateful Stoke match on Boxing Day, 2012. He had 28 in 62 before that. Simply put, he wasn't a $100m player prior to Rodgers.

It could all be a massive coincidence. Maybe Rodgers just found his rabbit's foot for those 18 months. Maybe Liverpool were just lucky for a very, very long time. Maybe all those guys who seemed to improve at around the same time would have improved anyway, regardless of whether the manager was Brendan Rodgers, Buck Rogers or Mister Rogers.

But I don't buy it.

Unless you're actually a Liverpool player or coach, you don't actually know what he does on the training ground. You only get second-hand accounts, which you can then juxtapose with what you see on the pitch. And I've had enough to conclude that he was working on formations and schemes and movements that made the team better. While also getting individual players to perform better. Not that Rodgers was perfect -- far from it. Even during Liverpool's stellar 18 months, they left a lot to be desired defensively. But it was clearly his day-to-day coaching that was having a positive impact.

Now, that's no longer happening. And as I hope I showed above, it's not simply a function of Sturridge being out.

That's what he needs to regain, first and foremost, if the season is to be turned around. Find a tactical scheme that works for the players you have. It seems obvious, but that's what good coaches do. And that's what got Rodgers to do well at Swansea and later at Anfield.

Clearly, you can point to other mistakes. Much has been made of the summer signings and the fabled "transfer committee." What it basically means is that signings are not left solely to Rodgers but are approved by a group which includes chief executive Ian Ayre, head of performance and analysis Michael Edwards, head of recruitment Dave Fallows, chief scout Barry Hunter and Rodgers himself.

Because Liverpool's signings as a whole have been lackluster -- Sturridge and one or two others apart -- it's seen as a huge problem, particularly by those who are ideologically opposed to the notion of the omnipotent Mr. Ferguson-style boss.

Have all the new signings paid off? Not even close but in the case of Markovic, it can turn around.

It's true that Liverpool have overpaid for some guys in some cases and bought the wrong players in others. But while some of the execution has been poor, the structure itself is not a problem, because the different components bring their own expertise to the table. Hunter is a scout; he will have seen more of the potential signings than anyone. Edwards is the analytics expert who can (hopefully) identify value. Ayre is the businessman who knows the budgets and, supposedly, knows how to negotiate. Rodgers has the big picture. You can talk about hierarchy and influence all you like, but even Sir Alex, the ultimate autocrat, relied on input from others who had more specific expertise.

The new arrivals as a group aren't nowhere near as bad as they've been depicted in some quarters. They simply haven't contributed the way their past performance suggests they would.

You would expect a guy with Rodgers' body of work to figure out a way to get this group to contribute consistently. You certainly would not expect him to do what he did in the last few games, erecting "safety-first" formations and adopting a small club, short-term mentality. As I mentioned on Monday, that's not why he's there. He's there to build something, to turn these guys into a team.

You can also point to other mistakes that were made. Steven Gerrard hasn't complained about it but you would expect more clarity about his position -- both on the pitch and at the club -- and his future. It's not surprising then that he's in no rush to extend his deal.

Sterling has been ridden like some kind of workhorse. At times, you feel like he's single-handedly asked to provide all of Liverpool's creativity in the final third. And, as a result, he's been inconsistent. Young players often are. That's why managers are selective in how they use them. Not Rodgers.

Sterling is a superb asset for Liverpool but he needs rest in order to rediscover his best form.

Sterling has featured in all but one of Liverpool's games this season. The club have played 2100 minutes of football: he's been on the pitch for 1854 minutes. Only Mignolet has played more. By the time he turned 20 on Monday, he had amassed 99 first team appearances. Lionel Messi, by comparison, had made 71 at the same age; Cristiano Ronaldo, 100.

But here's the difference. Messi had lasted 90 minutes for Barcelona 25 times before his 20th birthday, Ronaldo 30 for Sporting and Manchester United. Sterling's done it 49 times for Liverpool. He's a special talent, absolutely. But if two of the greatest players of all time -- both precocious superstars -- were being used far more sparingly at teenagers than Sterling is, perhaps there's a reason.

Injuries haven't helped and mistakes have been made -- crucially, few of them of the kind that can't be undone -- but there is still plenty to salvage from this season.

Rodgers may or may not be the right guy to turn Liverpool around and take them forward. What's pretty certain in my view is that the guy impersonating Rodgers -- the one who talked about the "importance of clean sheets" and fielded these insipid, fearful, immediate, results-driven and blue-collar teams over the past few games - is definitely not the guy Liverpool need. He hasn't demonstrated the skill set to be that kind of manager.

What he has shown is the ability to play a different brand of attacking football, to make players better, to make teams greater than the sum of their parts. That's what won him plaudits at Swansea, that's what landed him the Liverpool job and that's what raised expectations through the roof last year.

That's the Rodgers Liverpool need right now, the one who makes a difference above all on the training pitch.

It might not work. But if it doesn't, at least he'll go down swinging. And at least it will be Brendan Rodgers, and not this faux replica, who comes up short.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 11, 2014, 01:50:00 PM
In a nutshell, the whole contract thing is the definition of modern football. He's young, his whole career is ahead of him, not behind, and whilst he progressed a lot last season when the team were playing well going forward and he had Sturridge and Suarez to play with and off, this season his progress has again stalled.

A truly great player, of any age, makes a difference irrespective of the standard of his team mates. Sterling has had 'moments' this season, but has not done it consistently. Even taking into account the massive over inflation of modern football's wage levels, a player under 25 doesn't deserve to be on £100k a week or more, unless he is doing what Messi did for Barca or Ronaldo did for the Mancs, game in, game out, season in, season out befoe they reached the age of 25.

Suarez could be credited with 'carrying us' last season, the same can't be said about Sterling this season, despite our dire need, and the stage being set for him to be our true 'stand out' player, he simply hasn't stepped up to the mark.

He's what, 20 years old? £75k, all things considered, would be a fair offer. It can be reviewed again at the end of each season, and what these players all forget is that they get a pay rise when they perform above previous levels, but if their level 'drops back', their pay doesn't accordingly.

Give Sterling 'everything' at a young age, then you take away hunger and motivation to a degree. He needs to be put in his place if he's getting ahead of himself and if he doesn't like it then he can go and join a bunch of mercenaries elsewhere.

I'd rather see us stuck in mid-table but with a group of players busting their balls for the club, than have a group of money minded, money driven players keeping us challenging.

Is that daft? Probably, but our club was built on a set of values, beliefs and principles which I happen to believe in on a personal level too, and just because something isn't 'en vogue' doesn't make it 'old fashioned' or reduce it's credibility.

Here endeth today's sermon.  ;D

But a good sermon it was. Spot on!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 11, 2014, 01:53:41 PM
Fantastic article by Marcotti.

Yes, a good article that only help underline how lost Rodgers is. I honestly believe, in fact I'm convinced, he's beyond the point where he can go back to being Brendan Rodgers. It seems he thought getting us to concede less will keep his job, but as Marcotti points out, that's not who he is. In short, I don't think he can find his way back to himself at Liverpool. He will do it eventually, but it will be at another club. It's too late and I just want to cry.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 11, 2014, 04:38:26 PM
Some perspective Dude, please. They invented the cuckoo clock, fondu and the brilliant Toblerone. These are not an ordinary flavour of human beingness.  :D

How ironic that the former manager of Swansea totally outwits the former manager of Swansea.

good spot!  I had not realised they were both ex-Swansea managers.

yes, Toblerone, cuckoo clock, tax avoidance, etc all invented in Switzerland.

fair enough, Basel are in a golden era right now.....these past few seasons they have embarrassed United and Chelsea.

But I was aghast, watching how easily they bossed the midfield, in that first hour at Anfield.

Our owners, on seeing how feeble we were, must have wondered where their money was squandered, these past 5 transfer windows.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 11, 2014, 07:20:18 PM
Our owners, on seeing how feeble we were, must have wondered where their money was squandered, these past 5 transfer windows.

It struck me yesterday that is is, in fact, 5 windows now. And this is all we got to show for. I'm starting to think GH wasn't that bad in the transfer market after all.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 11, 2014, 07:46:49 PM
But I was aghast, watching how easily they bossed the midfield, in that first hour at Anfield.

I had to try really hard to remember that the team in white were Basel and not Real. Their movement was good, but then it's far easier to move away from a statue than a shadow.

The panic was obvious every time the ball ends up in our box. Feet and legs slashing at the ball in the hope of making some sort of good enough connection to get it clear.

One tired striker on the pitch, non on the bench = Skrtel as our central striker late on.

Whatever it was that Rodgers filled their heads with in the second half of last season isn't working this season, or maybe losing Suarez and Sturridge has drained the squad of belief.
Stats about success or failure without Sturridge or Suarez are pointless, aren't they, and no parallel to this season, as we either had one or the other, and with the knowledge that the missing one would return.

Confidence and belief, especially in sport, can hinge on the smallest things.

Whether or not the players brought to the club are indeed Rodgers' first choices, partial choices or he was 'over ruled' really don't matter either, as the end product of 'whichever process' simply isn't working, and that's the real point.

Like last season, Rodgers seems to have become quickly distrustful of a good percentage of the new arrivals, which is strange in itself. If he didn't want or doesn't use the players because they weren't his choices, it seems odd that he would sign a new contract in the Summer. Surely if his hands were being tied so tightly, or his chances of working how he believes he needs to is being so undermined, why would he extend that situation?

I won't answer that question by accusing him of being mercenary and just signing the extension to pocket a greater pay off, but there seems a lot of things that aren't adding up and certainly aren't working, but the solutions and the reasons why appear as evasive as ever.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 11, 2014, 09:39:48 PM
I had to try really hard to remember that the team in white were Basel and not Real. Their movement was good, but then it's far easier to move away from a statue than a shadow.

The panic was obvious every time the ball ends up in our box. Feet and legs slashing at the ball in the hope of making some sort of good enough connection to get it clear.

One tired striker on the pitch, non on the bench = Skrtel as our central striker late on.

Whatever it was that Rodgers filled their heads with in the second half of last season isn't working this season, or maybe losing Suarez and Sturridge has drained the squad of belief.
Stats about success or failure without Sturridge or Suarez are pointless, aren't they, and no parallel to this season, as we either had one or the other, and with the knowledge that the missing one would return.

Confidence and belief, especially in sport, can hinge on the smallest things.

Whether or not the players brought to the club are indeed Rodgers' first choices, partial choices or he was 'over ruled' really don't matter either, as the end product of 'whichever process' simply isn't working, and that's the real point.

Like last season, Rodgers seems to have become quickly distrustful of a good percentage of the new arrivals, which is strange in itself. If he didn't want or doesn't use the players because they weren't his choices, it seems odd that he would sign a new contract in the Summer. Surely if his hands were being tied so tightly, or his chances of working how he believes he needs to is being so undermined, why would he extend that situation?

I won't answer that question by accusing him of being mercenary and just signing the extension to pocket a greater pay off, but there seems a lot of things that aren't adding up and certainly aren't working, but the solutions and the reasons why appear as evasive as ever.

Some very interesting and urgent points made there, Tes. You're right, whatever the reasons(s), it just isn't adding up and it sure as hell doesn't work.

It struck me the other day Rodgers came out, if memory serves me correctly, after tha back to back defeats to Villa and West Ham saying it's transition again. Questionmarks have to be raised though as to how what decisions he's taken to accomodate that situation. One thing is clear and that is he never put any faith in building a post-Suarez/Sturridge out injured side by using new faces. The feeling is he's completely lost and have no idea how to handle things. I expect pretty much the same team that started against Basel to get the nod against the Mancs. They will bury us. I can see a 5-1 hammering written all over it.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 12, 2014, 04:24:10 AM
I think the irony now is that we have a squad of players to compete
successfully in the Europa league, and let's face it Stevie showed
that he still has the appetite for the big occasion. 

The question is whether that adventure can co-exist with a league campaign...

I see a way out for the season if we can keep it tight at Old Trafford and
prevail in the Cap 1 cup tie next week.

I do remember Rafa toiling away in the Europa league in his final campaign though,
with nothing to show for it bar the sack. It was horrific stuff.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 12, 2014, 11:55:51 AM
I think the irony now is that we have a squad of players to compete
successfully in the Europa league, and let's face it Stevie showed
that he still has the appetite for the big occasion. 

The question is whether that adventure can co-exist with a league campaign...

I see a way out for the season if we can keep it tight at Old Trafford and
prevail in the Cap 1 cup tie next week.

I do remember Rafa toiling away in the Europa league in his final campaign though,
with nothing to show for it bar the sack. It was horrific stuff.

I would say the feeling right now is very very similar to how it was 5 years ago. 5 lost years, indeed. Are we looking at another 5. Will we even be in the PL in 5 years time? Just asking the question gives an indication how far behind this club's become the big teams.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 12, 2014, 02:55:09 PM
we will get embarrassed in the Europa League too.

Without Suarez, the emperor has no clothes.

All the work that needed to be done in the past 18 months - set up a balanced defence and midfield - was not done.   We sold top players, and brought in journeymen, and young potential.

It's over for Rodgers.  We will start to climb up the league - largely because other sides will struggle, as the season goes on, with smaller squads.   But we will never get near the top 4 places.

The thing is - United are playing dire football right now.   With a proper team, we could really be stomping debt-laden United's face in the dirt, this season.   Instead, we are worse than useless. 

I have never seen a more disorganised and unbalanced Liverpool team, in my lifetime.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 12, 2014, 03:55:23 PM
I have never seen a more disorganised and unbalanced Liverpool team, in my lifetime.

You said it before, mate, and I didn't agree. I do now, however. You were right all along about the dark side! ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 12, 2014, 05:47:56 PM
You said it before, mate, and I didn't agree. I do now, however. You were right all along about the dark side! ;D

thanks, Martin.

good to see you and edward finally over on the dark side.   

I will be handing out the Rafa stickers later, and the black mass starts at midnight (Italian Naples time)

 ;D

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 12, 2014, 06:06:17 PM
I would say the feeling right now is very very similar to how it was 5 years ago. 5 lost years, indeed. Are we looking at another 5. Will we even be in the PL in 5 years time? Just asking the question gives an indication how far behind this club's become the big teams.
I agree that the season has elements of each of
3 previous managers in it. Hodgson's flounderings,
Kenny's focus on the cups at the expense of the league
and Rafa's last campaign.

Still, Rodgers is barely in the gig a minute and is a young man.
He should, if there is any quality about him, be able to turn things
around this season, given what remains on the table, 3 cups and
top 4.

You'd expect to see some return on a £120 million investment over
the Summer.

we will get embarrassed in the Europa League too.
His record in it with us is dire.

He faces a dilemma though, jettison the cups and go in
pursuit of top 4...(The Rodger's balloon ride is never likely
to be weighed down by insignificant things like trophies, it's
all about the hot air  ;D )
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 12, 2014, 07:21:08 PM
I changed my mind.

Rodgers in. I will give you my reasons.

The long term direction of the club is so much more important than again starting another managerial cycle. How do we bridge the gap against financially duped clubs and ones that are money making machines. Will removing Rodgers help us get there quicker, I dont think so.
If I was to put it simply, then the team that are 5th in financial power should be finishing 5th in the league, until football is no longer about finances (the FFP dream).

But if say for example Arsenal fans can't accept 4th place and see it as lacking ambition, then how could Liverpool fans who have been champions of europe 5 times accept a lesser position?

Build the stadium, bring youth players in, develop a good base, and more importantly, somehow keep our best players. This is more important than changing the manager because he has shown what he can do when he has top players at his disposal.

Sometimes the reality is not very pretty and fans feel its easier to change the position of the manager than to change the position of the club. If Rodgers was in a position where Suarez may not want to leave because he is the highest paid player in world football, and where Sanchez rejected London because his girlfriend preferred the extra 100k a week then I have no doubt we would be playing great football now and would be through to the last 16 of the champions league, sometimes its as simple as that.

Rodgers has panicked meaning results have suffered and he put his faith in the experienced old guard. I understand why he did it, but unfortunately they let him down.

He needs to go back to one of the main things which endeared him to Martin, I and most LFC fans hearts - and the primary one of those was giving youth a chance. If you look at players brought in and players we already have at the club - we have the potential to build an excellent and balanced side. It will make mistakes, but you expect that. What is hugely disapointing is the fact we play the experienced old guard and they make the same basic errors that you'd expect of youth, but they are so long in the tooth they won't ever learn. Let the youth make the same mistakes, as at least then you have a direction and progression.

Flanagan, Sakho, Moreno - Average age of 24? That's the core of our defence, why persist in Johnson who won't be here next season, Skrtel who isn't right for the system, Enrique who's best days are gone. Lovren is the exception as he is not that old nor young and that is the biggest burden Brendan has to carry. He should be in the prime of his career leading the defence but he couldn't lead Pavarotti to the buffet. (That one is ALL mine  ;D )

Can, Henderson, Allen - Average age of 23? 3 potentially excellent box to box multi-tasked midfielders all of the 3 work as a unit covering, attacking, pressing etc. Look at the German midfield that's what we should be aspiring to.

Sterling, Coutinho, Markovic (untill Sturridge comes back) - Average age of 21? 3 brilliantly different but devastatingly quick players who could interchange, whilst Sturridge is out play Sterling as a false 9 with the pace of Markovic and the trickery of Coutinho feeding them both. We need to make defences afraid, pushing them back giving us space to exploit.

That's what I'd be building towards, by next season that should be close to our starting lineup - excellent exposure in the Europa League and experience.

Pass and move, such a simple concept but we've not done it once this season - we play static football because we are forcing players who cannot constantly run and move into our team, so many times you'll see a player pass and just stand there, it slows our entire play. We need to stop resting on the past, lets build for the future, go back to the basic principles that made us great.

The biggest reason why Gerrard and Henderson have been disappointing is because they can't make that forward pass or forward movement any more. Lambert and Balotelli are way too static which means the opposition can press us knowing there is no threat. With Owen, Torres, Suarez and Sturridge Gerrard could play that diagonal pass, he can't now. But getting back to Brendan.

What we're witnessing now resembles the last days of Ged and Rafa. Both went for "caution first, old guard" in their last days to rescue the team and it didn't materialize for them. I recall much of the fanbase being gobsmacked at Aquilani's omission from match-day squads and calling him to play. Not because he was Alonso, but be cause he was a new ray of sunlight, when were creating fork all with Lucas-Masch midfield back then. He came in eventually, and had a ridiculous assist/game ratio and nearly got us to a European final.

This is what Brendan needs to do know. I always see a football manager's job as a ruler of a country. Successful managers study history and trends, and are proactive when a storm eventually hits. Brendan should see that caution first, and going into a defensive shell didn't bear fruits for those before him, and is unlikely to save him at this point. It's time for being bold. What made Brendan Rodgers popular here at the first place was his massive balls. To throw teenage Suso and Sterling into a starting line up at Goodison, to make a sub at 22nd minute when it wasn't tactically working. To change formations 3 times during a game. That ballsy Brendan needs to comeback and kick this currently coward one out.

Joseph Stalin made a massive balls up of a situation when the Nazi German attacked USSR in WW II. He wasn't ready for it as he had a pact with Hitler. After starving people of Leningrad to death, the German army were within kilometres of Moscow. He had a choice. To leave Moscow in order to Save Russia (Buying himself some time)? Or to stay in Moscow and counter-back, risking he'll lost fast. He went within brinks of getting on the train to get to Eastern Russia, like what Mikhail Kutuzov the Tsar did in 1812, but in the last minute, he had a change of heart and made one of the most decisive decisions in history of this world. A decision that changed the world we live in today. A very bald and brave one. He stayed in Moscow and what happened next we all know.

This is the moment we need Brendan to have. A moment of pure instinct. A moment of inspiration that trumps all the self-doubt, caution, and fear. Come on Brendan, you can do it.

* All of the above are mixed with my thoughts and words plus words from other people who articulated my thoughts better than I can. 

I said in my post above on Tuesday that I was angry really really angry at Brendan and that triggered me to say Rodgers out. But I have to be true to myself and to what I think right at this time. All of you disagree with and I completely understand that view. And respect it.

I wasn't joking when I said the noose is tightening over Brendan' reign though. It is at a cross roads and something has to give.

Personally what I'd do is sack all of the scouts, get transparency over the transfer committee and get an experience C.E.O of Director of Football who knows LFC and can make football decisions independent of relying upon others. We need another John Smith and Peter Robinson. Not another Rick Parry or Ian Ayre.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 12, 2014, 08:09:02 PM
Key Recommendation of my 2000 page report.

Hand P45's to Mr Brendan Rodgers and Mr Ian Ayre.

Give them a bottle of whiskey each for Christmas.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 12, 2014, 09:07:06 PM
I changed my mind.

Rodgers in. I will give you my reasons......

Joseph Stalin made a massive balls up of a situation when the Nazi German attacked USSR in WW II. He wasn't ready for it as he had a pact with Hitler. After starving people of Leningrad to death  <you get the jist>

ruddy nora.

in the dying days of the rodgers regime, edward has gone all cuckoo - like Houllier did.

 ;D

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 12, 2014, 11:51:12 PM
(The Rodger's balloon ride is never likely
to be weighed down by insignificant things like trophies, it's
all about the hot air  ;D )

Comedy gold.  :D   :D    :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 13, 2014, 12:32:10 AM
Personally what I'd do is sack all of the scouts, get transparency over the transfer committee and get an experience C.E.O of Director of Football who knows LFC and can make football decisions independent of relying upon others. We need another John Smith and Peter Robinson. Not another Rick Parry or Ian Ayre.

Parry was an excellent football (man) administrator, but a terrible business man and negotiator. Also Moores put far too much on him. Ayre would have been dead in the water long ago if he'd had Parry's lack bodies spreading the workload.

Totally agree on the scouting system/network/personalities involved (as you'd probably expect me to.

Martin raised a good point about Rodgers and his 'transitional season' comments. Also we have to ask why did we plough ahead, seemingly regardless, with the transfer plans that had previously been 'agreed' on, and especially when those transfer plans didn't/haven't appeared to cover the two/three obvious priorities - Suarez's departure (hardly a bolt from the blue), that making it even greater priority to get cover for Sturridge (which has been the case since he arrived) and finally our inability to keep anything approaching a clean sheet.

And why would it have to be a transitional season? If you bring in 3 players to upgrade the 3 weakest positions in the first eleven, and the upgraded players become the squad player (aka cover/competition), you've improved the quality in the squad in 6 places, without a huge turnover or influx of players.

Further on that point, and to agree with another point 224's made - another way of reducing transition and flux, is to bring in one or two young players from the development/under 21s. They're already at the club, know the first team squad, indeed will have trained alongside them.

I also agree with the waste of time that is using Glenn Johnson. It would have made more sense to use Flanno, Kelly, Wisdom for this season, again keeping 'transition' down, and if they proved not to be the answer over the season, then as Johnson is going to need replacing next season anyway, right back didn't need to be a position of change in any way this Summer and could be left until next Summer. 

Edward, I understand what you're driving at with Rodgers staying put, but you can't leave things to drift and hope they will come good in the longer term if the building and development process isn't working in the present. Rodgers has to prove he can grow things medium and long term but has to deal with and succeed in the present and short term also. It can't be one or the other. It has to be both, and the latter simply isn't happening.

It's frustrating to think of yet another managerial change, but it can't be avoided just for the sake of it. For the good of the club Rodgers needs to get things sorted so we can at least start to climb the table and put up some sort of challenge for fourth, especially in (with the exception of Chelsea) what is a relatively weak league this season.

Rodgers only has to look at the job Koeman's doing. It may not continue until the end of the season, but he's had to deal with a far worse situation than anything Rodgers can claim to have faced going into this season, and Koeman so far has made as good a job as Brendan is struggling. And he does look like he's struggling.

Despite using the bulk of last season's team they're not a patch on what we saw last season. Granted, some components are missing, and that will make a difference, but it seems to be the entire difference. Ok, life after Suarez hasn't been helped by Sturridge's worse injury situation since being at the club, but that shouldn't affect a lot of things that seem to be missing from before.

Also, whilst Rodgers talks about transition, the fact is, just like last season, he isn't using the new signings to the sort of degree that can cause such major disruption as we seem to be seeing, and it seems bizarre that we spend 10s of millions of pounds each Summer on players that the manager then chooses not to utilise regularly.

Who knows what or who is the answer to all this mess but things can't stay the same. Something has to change, somehow.   
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 13, 2014, 04:03:43 AM
Comedy gold.  :D   :D    :D
It just writes itself  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 13, 2014, 04:15:53 PM
@ Ed   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 13, 2014, 04:19:56 PM
David Brent claims: "I think the message for me is clear, I don't think there would be anyone better to do the job here."

"Seven months ago we nearly won the title unexpectedly"

"I had time to work with players and above expectation took them beyond where the club has been."

"This has been a difficult start with new players, less coaching time, young players, virtually starting again."

"I don't think there is anybody equipped better to deal with that. I certainly don't doubt myself."

"I'm not going to cry about it. I'm at a club where the model is based on buying players to create them to be world class."

"The club have employed someone who, without being arrogant, believes he can get the best out of a senior player or youth player. He will always maximise talents that he has and I think last year proved that."

"I think the club is in a different place to others but that is something that I accept as part of my job here at Liverpool. It is something I will always fight for the club and the people to try and make us the best that we can possibly be."
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 13, 2014, 04:22:45 PM
what an arrogant big-headed so and so.   

But I do note, that he is now starting to increasingly refer to himself in the third person.

e.g.  "The club have employed someone who, without being arrogant, believes he can get the best out of a senior player or youth player. He will always maximise talents that he has and I think last year proved that."

The speaking about yourself in the third-person, is indicative of being in the final days in a job.  Houllier started to do the same in his final months at Anfield.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 13, 2014, 06:42:47 PM
But I do note, that he is now starting to increasingly refer to himself in the third person.
Bizarre stuff he's coming out with now.

I note also that this self-centred rant leaves the
club a distinct second in his thoughts.

When a Liverpool manager speaks, I'd expect the
well-being of the club should always be front and
centre. ::)

It's not about Rodgers, it's about LFC.

Somewhere in there also is his own damning
verdict, that success (increased fixture list) is a
barrier to him implementing his methods??

Well f**k Off then!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 14, 2014, 01:59:58 AM
David Brent claims: "I think the message for me is clear, I don't think there would be anyone better to do the job here."

"Seven months ago we nearly won the title unexpectedly"

"I had time to work with players and above expectation took them beyond where the club has been."

"This has been a difficult start with new players, less coaching time, young players, virtually starting again."

"I don't think there is anybody equipped better to deal with that. I certainly don't doubt myself."

"I'm not going to cry about it. I'm at a club where the model is based on buying players to create them to be world class."

"The club have employed someone who, without being arrogant, believes he can get the best out of a senior player or youth player. He will always maximise talents that he has and I think last year proved that."

"I think the club is in a different place to others but that is something that I accept as part of my job here at Liverpool. It is something I will always fight for the club and the people to try and make us the best that we can possibly be."

I've tried several language translators but I'm still none the wiser as to what the fairy boots he's on about.

People who are constantly looking backwards tend to be the victims of avoidable accidents. He needs to forget about last season and place all his focus on this one.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 14, 2014, 02:05:51 AM
I changed my mind.

I'm in the Rodgers out camp.

 :o

Good man. The light is easier to see on the Dark Side.  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 14, 2014, 06:57:52 AM
I've tried several language translators but I'm still none the wiser as to what the fairy boots he's on about.

People who are constantly looking backwards tend to be the victims of avoidable accidents. He needs to forget about last season and place all his focus on this one.
Fortress Rodgers, as the siege sets in  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 14, 2014, 02:19:49 PM
half time

United 2 - Liverpool 0

somehow, we managed to let United score twice.

It's like being mauled by a toothless donkey.

The home crowd are singing, "You're getting sacked in the morning"
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 14, 2014, 04:23:14 PM
Not a surprise...bloody awful defending as per usual...
no lucas and so no control of the midfield..henderson and gerrard were pretty woeful....what does allen actually do?
Toure and balotelli should have started...
Manure weren't even that good...but just efficient...we looked as if we were in slow motion while they scored...

Rodgers has to go...like now...we might even get a bounce and beat bournemouth...
If we can't get rafa/ ancelotti/ klopp til the summer...then we might as well get dalglish and clarke back as caretakers...
this is like the titanic where rodgers is deliberatly steering at the icebergs...
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 14, 2014, 04:33:55 PM
 Lowest points tally for 16 games since 1964/5 season. Nuff said.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 14, 2014, 06:01:54 PM
no lucas and so no control of the midfield
Strange one, that.

we might even get a bounce and beat bournemouth...
At this point, Rodgers needs to recognise the CL bonus of
winning the EL to save his Liverpool career and has the
squad of players to do that.

Harshest critic of his that I am, I couldn't argue with that.

It's doable if he holds his nerve and has the talent that he claims.

2nd is nothing though, he needs to win it.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 14, 2014, 08:53:02 PM
Brent couldn't organise a p.i.s.s-up in a brewery.

the lad had one season's experience in the premiership.....a one slightly-good-season wonder.

our owners made one helluva mistake in recruiting him.   He needs to be shown the door, and right now.  And I would not be overly saddened to see Ayres leave too.

if our owners want to ignore top quality coaching talent, and instead experiment with their own thoughts, then I think they should also leave.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 14, 2014, 09:10:37 PM
Brent couldn't organise a p.i.s.s-up in a brewery.

the lad had one season's experience in the premiership.....a one slightly-good-season wonder.

our owners made one helluva mistake in recruiting him.   He needs to be shown the door, and right now.  And I would not be overly saddened to see Ayres leave too.

if our owners want to ignore top quality coaching talent, and instead experiment with their own thoughts, then I think they should also leave.
We know all this Dude, I'd say Ayres goes first
as I think the incompetence and mediocrity comes
from him. As he's overseen all of it.

However, before discarding a manager and beginning,
again, I think it makes sense to give the manager a chance to
right his wrongs. I don't think that he should be given
more money to do this, he's been given more than enough.

Should he fail then obviously he goes but the mistake
was made by the people who hired him and they should
have the full picture of the limitations and naivety of their
model. Which they only get by seeing our performance
in the remainder of the campaigns (still 3 cups and top 4
in play).

The point is that we have not produced a squad that can successfully
compete in 4 campaigns under their watch. We did well in 2 cups under
Kenny and in the league last year with much stutterings in between &
humiliation in Europe.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 14, 2014, 10:04:15 PM
I entirely disagree.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 15, 2014, 12:43:57 AM
I entirely disagree.
That's because you're focussed on Rodgers.

Same way you wanted Hodgson and  Kenny out.

Re-arrange the deckchairs on the titanic, it'll improve things...

Who are you going to get to replace him in December? Jamie
Carragher, AVB...

It's a f**kin' circus since FSG took over and about time they started
making the right moves behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 15, 2014, 12:51:39 AM
Lowest points tally for 16 games since 1964/5 season. Nuff said.

I seem to remember him setting 1 or 2 unwanted records in our first season too.

We're probably also the most expensively assembled mid table team in English history too.  :(
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 15, 2014, 01:09:27 AM
Lowest points tally for 16 games since 1964/5 season. Nuff said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30470703 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30470703)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 15, 2014, 01:22:18 AM
Ayre needs to go first. We need someone capable of running us properly. A heavyweight, knowledgeable CEO.

If Ayre remains in place, God only knows who he and the Owners will come up with between them if they were to replace Rodgers.

If they were to both go together then we have to rely on the owners choice of manager and both going together will make us look like the entire club has come of the rails, not just the first team results.

There's just so much wrong at Anfield that you could argue for any number of changes and in a multitude of different sequences.

I can't see us getting relegated (yet) so if Ayre were to be replaced and Rodgers left until the end of the season, and as hard as it could be until then, Rodgers gets until then because of last season. Also it doesn't make the owners look quite so trigger happy and Rodgers will have hung himself having been given the rest of the season to sort things out.

We have to be careful not to be seen to be making hasty decisions, even though it feels like there will be no end to the slump.

Also, will clubs be prepared to release managers mid-season and will managers want to move mid-season, with very little chance in the Winter window to make changes, it's not the most appealing time to attract the right man.

What a mess.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 15, 2014, 01:37:58 AM
That's because you're focussed on Rodgers.

Same way you wanted Hodgson and  Kenny out.

Re-arrange the deckchairs on the titanic, it'll improve things...

*incredulous look*

what are you talking about.

I never ever wanted Dalglish, Hodgson or Rodgers.

We needlessly sacked a superb manager. (Rafa)  It was criminal.

And we have never came close to replacing him.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 15, 2014, 01:57:23 AM
And we have never came close to replacing him.
We hired Rafa 10 Years ago. It was Rick Parry from
two previous regimes ago who did that deal.

My point is that since this awful long time ago, there has
been no evidence that there is the capability within the club
to employ a decent manager.

So, despite the fact that I have little time for Rodgers, I think
it just complicates the whole thing if we sack him, because it'll
descend into the usual media-driven fan hysteria sh*t and lead in
January to the appointment of some clown like Jamie Carragher.

I'd prefer if the owners went about it quietly behind the scenes, without
any media speculation and got us a world-class manager in the making,
who would be unveiled at the start of the Summer.

That's my point.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 15, 2014, 03:12:54 AM
FSG will - no doubt - go about their business, quietly and with no fanfare.

But what the media does, or does not do, is beyond our control.  And I don't think a modern business can afford to  not take decisions based on what the media might or might not think.

We need a world class manager - that much we can agree on.

If we need to wait til the summer, then fine.   

I don't think there is any danger of FSG appointing lemons like Gerrard or Carragher. 

But as Tes says, it is scary, you could dismiss the entire coaching and scouting setup, as well as the Chief Executive.   

The fantastic setup that Rafa put in place, along with most of the top players he recruited, are gone.

What is badly missing in all this mess, is the people (at Anfield and in the media) who ridiculed and demanded Rafa be sacked, being held to account.

They are still slabbering away, in the media.....often spouting nonsense, to any one who will listen.  They need to not be allowed to forget what they said and did.



Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 15, 2014, 08:30:10 AM
I changed my mind.

Rodgers in. I will give you my reasons.

The long term direction of the club is so much more important than again starting another managerial cycle. How do we bridge the gap against financially duped clubs and ones that are money making machines. Will removing Rodgers help us get there quicker, I dont think so.
If I was to put it simply, then the team that are 5th in financial power should be finishing 5th in the league, until football is no longer about finances (the FFP dream).

A good and well written post there Edward. Being at work I won't have time to respond to all of it. But I disagree with you and find myself more in the Tes-camp of things - you can't let things drift and hope for the best.

I feel it has come to a point where it's out of his control. And to the extent he is in control of things, he seems hellbent of making things more difficult and worse they could be. For instance, yesterday, Lallana was our only plyaer to show up. He made Suarez look lazy, such was his work rate. Also, he set up the worthless, spoilt and hugely overrated Sterling brilliantly. Good fornicating thing then Rodgers took him off at half-time to keep the lazy and non-contributive Coutinho on, the weak and untalented Henderson, the worthless Sterling. Same with Sakho, Lovren's made more disastrous mistakes I ever witnessed a CB committ. But no, Sakho was disappointed not to be in the squad against Everton almost 3 months ago so it really doesn't matter what contributions to the team he could make. And don't get me started on his stubborness regarding formation.

I don't see him having what it takes Edward. Nor do I appreciate changing he manager, but it is unavoidable the way I see it.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 15, 2014, 09:22:42 AM
Quote
”The most important thing for me today was we looked like scoring. Over the course of the season we haven’t been creative enough. Raheem Sterling was outstanding, his movement was great, he was just unfortunate not to get a goal.”
Read more at http://www.squawka.com/news/liverpool-manager-brendan-rodgers-pleased-with-raheem-sterlings-display-against-man-utd/247042#Sp5rOsVRIwgblUzy.99

That's, ultimately, why he has to go - you can't praise a player who shatter into pieces every time he gets into the box. You can't praise a player who, time and again, waste golden opportunities that ultimately costs the team. If you chose to, you shouldn't be surprised we look abject and average. This quote alone is enough for me to realise he's the wrong man for this club.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 15, 2014, 03:48:58 PM
Evidently ex-players have persuaded FSG not to sack off Rodgers just yet. But to be honest i hold little store in any player, present or past, having any ability or nous on how to run a football club. Most players aren't the brightest and are often swayed by getting their opinions from the dailies. So what could happen is that we start to be ruled and controlled by the likes of the Scum, and the Mail.

Sometimes hard decisions have to be made, sometimes decisions will not be popular, but the club has to be put first. I don't think Rodgers has the ability to steer us out of safety because quite simply he' never dealt with the defence since the first day he got here, that in the end cost us the title last season. Granted he seems to be good going forward but if you have a system that only works when you have one of the top 3 players in the world playing it, then it doesn't look too special when he's gone.

Loads of people have been slagging Sterling off, but at least he's trying, and last year he had Suarez and Sturridge to take the load off him and to work with him. Now he's effectively doing the job of all three. At the age of 20. Unrealistic expectation? Sheesh.

This is a crucial time for us going into the Christmas period and it can be saveable. But with eight games in little over a month, we could find ourselves out of the Fa Cup, Carling Cup and perilously close to relegation.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 15, 2014, 06:33:37 PM
Evidently ex-players have persuaded FSG not to sack off Rodgers just yet.
I tend to agree.

Evidence against, and it's quite damning, dreadful start to the
league, practically ruling out top 4 by December (Man City, Chelsea,
United, Arsenal).

Humiliated in CL.

Silver-lining is that we remain in 3 cup competitions, one
of which offers a route back to the CL next season. Plus there
is depth in the squad to run these campaigns (whether there's
the quality and mentality is another matter).

It's like Stevie said, time to dust ourselves down and go again,
starting with Bournemouth.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 15, 2014, 06:45:32 PM
Very interesting news from James Pearce. Who is extremely reliable.

Liverpool Echo's James Pearce one of the most trusted persons regarding LFC affairs has come out to suggest that the Transfer Committee (TC) could have made BR's work difficult at Anfield. The sale of senior players on big wages and the signings that BR made this season were not totally his choice, but the committee's. Many managers refused to work under a sporting director when they were interviewed by FSG for the job before BR came in. FSG later set up this committee that is identical, or perhaps wields more power than a sporting director, whilst giving the idea that the manager is totally in charge. Whatever decision the manager makes with regards to signings and contracts, will be voted by 5 people in the committee. Only in the case of a majority vote, BR can sign the players he wants. Otherwise he has to improvise with the players chosen by the TC. Pearce says BR NEVER wanted to sign Balotelli but was forced to settle for him. In other words, it was the TC that ultimately failed to replace Suarez despite getting big money by selling him. Pearce says BR also made it clear that he wanted Michel Vorm and that signing a GK is a priority. But he says the transfer committee refused to pay his value despite only spending over 30mil in net spending this summer. This also had a significant impact on Mignolet's form as LFC didn't try to provide competition for the Belgian. Pearce says paying top bucks for Lovren made perfect sense at that point, as he was not one for the future, but was coming in as a top centre back, based on his form with the Saints and his Premier League experience. He was bought to hit the ground running. However he's had a major dip in form which is disappointing says Pearce. Similar tone has been voiced by Mike Bernard, a former employee of FSG, who said BR failing to see eye-to-eye with some of the TC members and their signings, is getting a little unsavoury. Mike noted that BR wanted Eriksen and Bony but was overruled. This also goes back to previous failures to show the money and securing players early when they had interest to move to LFC. Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more. Diego Costa was identified by BR as a transfer target when Costa was playing as a wing-forward, long before he became a star in that out-and-out striker position and caught the whole world's attention. TC thought his release clause of 20mil back then was too much. The rest is history. While we drag our feet on targets, other clubs come into the picture, showed the money and swooped them as we watch helplessly. Even for Sanchez, Phil Thompson declared during the world cup that we had Sanchez in the bag. However too much negotiations into details and conditions in payment method allowed Arsenal to sneak in and turn his and his wife's head.

Pearce also does not believe with the popular excuse that BR got founded after Suarez left, and that it was the Uruguayan who made BR look good last season. He says BR's tactical acumen led the team prosper last season, not Suarez alone. The expectations has been raised by last season's football and LFC are struggling with the pressure now he adds. Pearce labels Borini's position as strange and wonders if it could be the club showing frustration against him, for not being able to secure 14mil from Sunderland and another 13mil from QPR. They're certainly making it clear to Borini that he shouldn't reject another deal in January. Another journo Graham Beecroft says Borini could have indicated that he rather sit on the bench and take the wages or run down his contract, than moving to a small club ie Sunderland, QPR who are also refusing to pay more wages than LFC. Could be the reason why he's strangely frozen. Could be the club's decision not the manager's.

The last time Pearce spoke to BR, the manager said Can and some of the new players are still trying to adapt to his philosophy of football and it could be the reason why BR resorts to playing those who know what is expected of them for now. But Pearce says he will speak to BR again about Can to find out more on his position. Pearce says LFC's season could depend on Sturridge coming back to be paired with Balotelli upfront, and then allow the rest of the team to click. Pearce doesn't know if FSG are willing to spend in January but it's a question of can they afford not to. As champions league new TV deal brings in over 40mil next season compared to 25mil before, he opines that LFC must spend. Especially on a top quality striker, taking into account Studge's fitness.

The audio of the interview is here

https://soundcloud.com/anfieldhq/james-pearce-corrected
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 15, 2014, 09:08:11 PM
No, throwing the Transfer Committee under the bus, won't wash.

Rodgers talks too much.  And such a trait always comes back to haunt. 

Here, he is damned by his own words, re the recruitment of new players.

Brendan Rodgers told the Liverpool Echo:  "The principle idea when I first came in was that like any manager,  you will have the first call on a player and the last call."

"That's the call on whether he's good enough to continue to look at and try to organise a deal and the last call to say yes or no."

"We will never bring in a player here who the manager doesn't want in. That's a great credit to the owners and the other people at the club. We work very closely together – it's worth stressing that. It's key that we are very much one club."
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 15, 2014, 09:25:43 PM
No, throwing the Transfer Committee under the bus, won't wash.
Precisely, Gaffer means gaffer.

This is an elaborate PR stunt by a friend of Rodgers.

LFC doesn't wash it's linen in public, it's in the business
of success and winning trophies.

I can see this article playing well with elements of the fanbase
who are gullible but the FACT is Rafa Benitez toiled away in
far, far more restricted circumstances and had us as the number 1
club in Europe. Q.E.D.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 15, 2014, 10:00:35 PM
Precisely, Gaffer means gaffer.

This is an elaborate PR stunt

exactly, Ed.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 15, 2014, 10:42:33 PM
exactly, Ed.
It f**king demeans the club to have to put up with
this kind of BS.

I've said it a 1000 times it should be about the club, not Rodgers.

I think he should go right now, solely based on that article.

Tell his friend to shut the f**k up or leave.

We're mid-campaign, with 3 trophies and a CL spot there for the
taking and the f**king excuses start. Surprise, surprise it's all about
Rodgers.

The nerve of it and you can see how carefully it has been crafted to
push the buttons of the gullible fan. The names of the transfer targets
who have been missed...

I identified Eriksen about 4 years ago as a lock-picking midfielder with goals
in him. The dog in the street knows this. Just because he's scored a few
important ones for Spurs recently doesn't mean that every single club in Europe
has not been aware of him. He chose Joe Allen and dubbed him the Welsh Xavi,
while Eriksen was still at Ajax, how the f**k would you prise Eriksen away from
Daniel Levy after that??

Course the article doesn't mention how Daley Blind, another cultured midfielder
with goals in him who recently went to United for buttons.

I think he should just go, he doesn't seem to be able to face up to his responsibility
as manager of LFC and briefing against the club to pals in the media just shows
the level he's at.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 16, 2014, 02:24:00 AM
We've been looking at Eriksen and heavily linked over an extended number of seasons prior to Spurs paying a mere £12M for him.

As I said the other day, why would Rodgers sign an extension to his contract if he was working in the sort of conditions Pierce is describing?

So after refusing to work under a DoF, he then has something akin to straight jacket placed on him, where he has little or no say in the signings that will ultimately get him the sack if they flop.
Two years into this and no doubt with a lot of this Summer's targets already decided above his head, he signs an extension to his contract.

Makes a lot of sense. Not.

There is so much wrong at the club, but ultimately we need any manager to have all the tools to get the job done - a strong CEO who gets the players and increases revenues available to the manager and club, scouts at all levels and age groups who find the absolute best for the budget we have, and the manager having the absolute say on who comes in and who goes out, finance permitting, of course.

I get the feeling the Remy decision certainly wasn't his, but the rest? That contract extension makes a strong argument against the picture Pierce is painting.

Rodgers' stock was stratospheric by game 38. He didn't need to stay and work under such 'unworkable' circumstances.

Yet still he's here.

Make your own minds up folks, but like Ed states, weak minded sheep are the easiest to have their eyes covered by wool.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 16, 2014, 03:47:10 AM
We've been looking at Eriksen and heavily linked over an extended number of seasons prior to Spurs paying a mere £12M for him.

As I said the other day, why would Rodgers sign an extension to his contract if he was working in the sort of conditions Pierce is describing?

So after refusing to work under a DoF, he then has something akin to straight jacket placed on him, where he has little or no say in the signings that will ultimately get him the sack if they flop.
Two years into this and no doubt with a lot of this Summer's targets already decided above his head, he signs an extension to his contract.

Makes a lot of sense. Not.

There is so much wrong at the club, but ultimately we need any manager to have all the tools to get the job done - a strong CEO who gets the players and increases revenues available to the manager and club, scouts at all levels and age groups who find the absolute best for the budget we have, and the manager having the absolute say on who comes in and who goes out, finance permitting, of course.

I get the feeling the Remy decision certainly wasn't his, but the rest? That contract extension makes a strong argument against the picture Pierce is painting.

Rodgers' stock was stratospheric by game 38. He didn't need to stay and work under such 'unworkable' circumstances.

Yet still he's here.

Make your own minds up folks, but like Ed states, weak minded sheep are the easiest to have their eyes covered by wool.
Jesus Tes, you should be a detective   :D

I just smelled a rat i.e. how convenient it seemed for the article
to appear at this time and the peculiar slant it was taking about a
manager who has never won a trophy.

You, on the other hand, were able to give the rat's detailed movements
and pinpoint it's current whereabouts  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 16, 2014, 10:51:27 AM
It f**king demeans the club to have to put up with
this kind of BS.

I've said it a 1000 times it should be about the club, not Rodgers.

I think he should go right now, solely based on that article.


I think this is a massive own goal on Rodgers behalf as it's a major criticism of FSG. Sure there maybe some problems transfer wise and the 'letting the press know then other teams buying from under us' is a serious problem but if Rodgers is so unhappy about it he would have waited to sign a new contract.

To release this to the public is utter folly as if he thinks he's safer now (after the worst run in 50 years) due to having more sympathy with the fans, then he should just look at what happened to King Kenny who won us a Carling cup and got us to the fa cup final.

IF some of this is true, then obviously FSG are going to have to review the buying process but with an addition of some old heads, then they should get that right.
But this should all have been done in house.

Sack him off...Bring back Rafa.

Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: barticus on December 16, 2014, 10:57:29 AM
'Rodgers said: "We have to recapture the team ethos. With the emphasis of the team, it is clear to me that we are searching to find solutions.'

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9607425/Brendan-Hints-At-Dressing-Room-Issues-

So basically after getting rid of dissenters aka people who can smell bullshitters aka reina, agger, et al...Bodgers still finds himself with disharmony in the dressing room.
Basically he's lost it and they're treating him like they did Hodgson.
Why is Bodgers still here??
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 16, 2014, 11:13:09 AM
Sack him off...Bring back Rafa.

exactly.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 16, 2014, 03:44:18 PM
Alarming Statistic

Here we are mid-December, and Owen Goals is still Liverpool’s joint top scorer in the league (Own Goals, 3)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 16, 2014, 09:04:10 PM
Alarming Statistic

Here we are mid-December, and Owen Goals is still Liverpool’s joint top scorer in the league (Own Goals, 3)
I don't mean to sound arrogant but,

I've been working on the training field with Owen
since he arrived, explaining the principles to him,
I think he's a better player now and the way I've
set the team up to play to this strengths...  :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 17, 2014, 10:07:31 AM
I hear Sakho isn't even in the match squad again. This bullying of our best CB must stop. Rodgers out!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 17, 2014, 12:11:41 PM
I don't mean to sound arrogant but,

I've been working on the training field with Owen
since he arrived, explaining the principles to him,
I think he's a better player now and the way I've
set the team up to play to this strengths...  :D

 :D

I think our glorious leader is building the team around our centre-forwards Skytrel and Owen Goals.

Fear not, we are in transition.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Edward224 on December 17, 2014, 11:11:55 PM
So we win and this thread hasn't been updated since midday. If we had lost I somehow doubt this would have been the case  :-X

I thought it was a very good performance. For me our first goal was our best goal of the season. 50 odd passes and 2-3 mins of pass and move encompassing what pass and move football is all about.

Markovic looked very good. Coutinho and Lallana were superb. Sterling in that false 9 position looks promising and found his shooting boots. Well apart from his last chance!

Sakho looked right at home when he came on. Smooth and calm just what our defence needs.

I was wondering about our mentality at 2-0 were we to concede and at 3-1 even moreso when only the woodwork denied them.

I am actually happy with Chelsea in the semis. Rather the semis than the final imo. This is because of our counter-attacking abilities at the Bridge if we can somehow muster a win or get to the 2nd leg with low score draw. Hopefully we have a new GK and Sturridge back for that.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 17, 2014, 11:44:03 PM
So we win and this thread hasn't been updated since midday. If we had lost I somehow doubt this would have been the case  :-X
Ok, potential banana skin avoided. We've skidded on so many this season,
one was bound to get away.

Beating championship sides is our manager's forte, or don't you know.

Chelsea will be tough.

btw, I've nothing against us winning silverware.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 18, 2014, 12:22:44 AM
So we win and this thread hasn't been updated since midday. If we had lost I somehow doubt this would have been the case  :-X

I thought it was a very good performance. For me our first goal was our best goal of the season. 50 odd passes and 2-3 mins of pass and move encompassing what pass and move football is all about.

Markovic looked very good. Coutinho and Lallana were superb. Sterling in that false 9 position looks promising and found his shooting boots. Well apart from his last chance!

Sakho looked right at home when he came on. Smooth and calm just what our defence needs.

I was wondering about our mentality at 2-0 were we to concede and at 3-1 even moreso when only the woodwork denied them.

I am actually happy with Chelsea in the semis. Rather the semis than the final imo. This is because of our counter-attacking abilities at the Bridge if we can somehow muster a win or get to the 2nd leg with low score draw. Hopefully we have a new GK and Sturridge back for that.

I would agree with all of that. But I do Think you should've mentioned the number of chances they were allowed to create. We were actually very lucky to concede only 1.

For all the praise Sterling recieves (2 good goals but again very poor passing and dribbling) my MOTM was Lallana by a country mile. Rodgers must build the team around him, or at least have him as one of the first names on the team sheet. Also impressed by Markovic who's cross for Henderson to set up Sterling was Modricesque. Sakho hasn't played a minute since early September.  Yet, what a presence. Just one missed pass. You really can tell the rest of the team are confident in his ball handling skills. Brought some much needed stability and calm. Also made a couple of important break ups. Must start against Arsenal.

Hopefully we can build on our brilliant first half.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 18, 2014, 12:10:18 PM
Jesus Tes, you should be a detective   :D


(https://www.vbotickets.com/_images/events/1840_The_Pink_Panther_DOU_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 18, 2014, 12:18:44 PM
So we win and this thread hasn't been updated since midday. If we had lost I somehow doubt this would have been the case  :-X

I thought it was a very good performance. For me our first goal was our best goal of the season. 50 odd passes and 2-3 mins of pass and move encompassing what pass and move football is all about.

Markovic looked very good. Coutinho and Lallana were superb. Sterling in that false 9 position looks promising and found his shooting boots. Well apart from his last chance!

Sakho looked right at home when he came on. Smooth and calm just what our defence needs.

I was wondering about our mentality at 2-0 were we to concede and at 3-1 even moreso when only the woodwork denied them.

I am actually happy with Chelsea in the semis. Rather the semis than the final imo. This is because of our counter-attacking abilities at the Bridge if we can somehow muster a win or get to the 2nd leg with low score draw. Hopefully we have a new GK and Sturridge back for that.

I know it's the season of goodwill to all men (and current Liverpool managers), but I find it hard to get all weak kneed at the idea of beating Bournemouth.

Now Chelsea, that's a whole different song, but again, to be thinking that way is sad, considering where we and they finished in the league last season, and where they and us are respectively this season. And that in nutshell is the whole point and problem.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 18, 2014, 12:24:43 PM
One thing I will congratulate the manager on and that is taking the competition seriously.

The Milk Cup was good enough for Bob Paisley and until a Liverpool manager can display his trophy winning prowess then every trophy is worth winning and every competition taken seriously.

Anything else is disrespectful to the club, the past managerial greats, the fans and the competition, and we as a club weren't built on disrespect and cheap short cuts.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 18, 2014, 02:02:57 PM
One thing I will congratulate the manager on and that is taking the competition seriously.

The Milk Cup was good enough for Bob Paisley and until a Liverpool manager can display his trophy winning prowess then every trophy is worth winning and every competition taken seriously.

Anything else is disrespectful to the club, the past managerial greats, the fans and the competition, and we as a club weren't built on disrespect and cheap short cuts.

:thumbsup: Amen to that!
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 18, 2014, 03:43:48 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/footballer-sees-his-wig-fall-off-midmatch-during-liverpool-win-over-bournemouth-9932658.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/footballer-sees-his-wig-fall-off-midmatch-during-liverpool-win-over-bournemouth-9932658.html)

Player loses pony during game.

 :D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 18, 2014, 03:52:28 PM
Good result.

But I knew from the start, that Bournemouth tactics were all wrong. 

They played an open game, unbalanced, attacking every time they got the chance (and leaving themselves wide open).

Far too open.  And left us plenty of opportunities.

Having said that, both sides had pretty similar opportunities on goal.  We took ours, they didn't.

If we can start scoring goals again, it will help mask all our other deficiencies.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 18, 2014, 05:56:44 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/footballer-sees-his-wig-fall-off-midmatch-during-liverpool-win-over-bournemouth-9932658.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/footballer-sees-his-wig-fall-off-midmatch-during-liverpool-win-over-bournemouth-9932658.html)

Player loses pony during game.

 :D

"Keep your hair on son, it's only a game".
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 18, 2014, 05:59:43 PM
If we can start scoring goals again, it will help mask all our other deficiencies.

Maybe we ought to recruit a couple of part time footballers from non-league teams. A pair of part time footballers, but full time decorators will see the cracks (subsidence) nicely papered over.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 19, 2014, 07:08:15 AM

(https://www.vbotickets.com/_images/events/1840_The_Pink_Panther_DOU_lg.jpg)
;D  ;D

The Milk Cup was good enough for Bob Paisley and until a Liverpool manager can display his trophy winning prowess then every trophy is worth winning and every competition taken seriously.
Best comment on here all year.

We'll take every bit of silverware going and doesn't
matter a f*ck who the manager is.

It's like Stevie said:
"We dust ourselves down and go again"

While we are mid-campaign, it's about the trophies
'til there aren't any left. Sure the media would love
the circus to begin and Jamie Carragher be installed
as manager (cos he knows about defending or some
other b*llshit).

Chelsea game'll be tough but we should treat like a European tie.

The management issue can be decided later. He has an
opportunity to show that he can win silverware.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Martinmarx on December 19, 2014, 04:12:46 PM
Just watched a clip of the pre-Arsenal pressie. I must say I didn't recognise Rodgers. His answers were extremly short and nonsensical. He came across as very defensive, non-communicative and resigned. Has he already been told he'll be replaced?
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 19, 2014, 08:43:46 PM
Just watched a clip of the pre-Arsenal pressie. I must say I didn't recognise Rodgers. His answers were extremly short and nonsensical. He came across as very defensive, non-communicative and resigned. Has he already been told he'll be replaced?

interesting thought, Martin.

He's either very annoyed at the media for claiming unrest in the dressing room (and thus only gave them a very brief press conference in retaliation)......or, there is something more severe amiss.

If you believe one ex-red, our owners have had to be discouraged from dismissing Rodgers twice so far.

Rodgers is standing on the brink of being sacked.  If Arsenal were to come to Anfield this weekend, and give us a pasting, then I think it is all over for Brendan.  And maybe as you say, maybe he has already been told (that it is over).
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 19, 2014, 08:46:08 PM
Maybe we ought to recruit a couple of part time footballers from non-league teams. A pair of part time footballers, but full time decorators will see the cracks (subsidence) nicely papered over.  ;D

 ;D

shouldn't be any problems getting a few part time plasterers - especially at weekends.

I get a bit plastered then myself.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 19, 2014, 10:35:28 PM
interesting thought, Martin.

He's either very annoyed at the media for claiming unrest in the dressing room (and thus only gave them a very brief press conference in retaliation)......or, there is something more severe amiss.

If you believe one ex-red, our owners have had to be discouraged from dismissing Rodgers twice so far.

Rodgers is standing on the brink of being sacked.  If Arsenal were to come to Anfield this weekend, and give us a pasting, then I think it is all over for Brendan.  And maybe as you say, maybe he has already been told (that it is over).
I think the criticism of Sterling has him annoyed.
But sure Fergie and even Kenny treated the media
scum with the contempt they deserve. Trying to be
best mates with them seems to be part of the Rodgers
masterplan.

Arsenal on their day this season are a frightening prospect.
Thing is they're inclined to have off days.

I say he deserves a crack at the cups in the New Year. Surely the slump
happened and it couldn't possibly get any worse...Dunno if it'll affect whatever
happens at the end of the season. Kenny bit the bullet after two finals and 1 cup.

Mr Rodgers needs to win the EL to undo the damage done in the league.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 20, 2014, 02:26:30 PM
I get a bit plastered then myself.

That's it, Dude, you've stumbled onto the reason for this season's plunge. Brendan's been hitting the black stuff full on, which certainly explains some of his recent team selections.  ;D
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 20, 2014, 02:34:09 PM
We'll take every bit of silverware going and doesn't
matter a f*ck who the manager is.

Exactly. That's the up and down of it in a nutshell. Managers who don't take winning silverware seriously deserve all the flack going.

I'd actually prefer to win the UEFA Cup this season and re-qualify for the CL that way, than end the season trophyless but in the 'prized' 4th place. We also extend our position as the most successful team in the competition, and that's what this club is all about.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 20, 2014, 02:40:56 PM
Just watched a clip of the pre-Arsenal pressie. I must say I didn't recognise Rodgers. His answers were extremly short and nonsensical. He came across as very defensive, non-communicative and resigned. Has he already been told he'll be replaced?

He's probably been given an ultimatum of some sort as part of 'not being sacked', and probably feels it's somehow unfair after last season.

He's in his third season and has been well backed by the owners, considering we're trying to be self sufficient and fit in to the FFP framework. We don't have petro-funds, so considering that, Rodgers has had good money to spend and has to realise that with that spending power comes expectation to see it being a difference maker.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Tes on December 20, 2014, 02:44:38 PM
Sure the media would love the circus to begin and Jamie Carragher be installed as manager (cos he knows about defending or some other b*llshit).

Moneyball is so yesterday's news. 'Hoofball' is the way forward. "Viva la hoof".
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2014, 03:04:40 PM
That's it, Dude, you've stumbled onto the reason for this season's plunge. Brendan's been hitting the black stuff full on, which certainly explains some of his recent team selections.  ;D

 :D

maybe Guinness will give him balance.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2014, 03:07:04 PM
Moneyball is so yesterday's news. 'Hoofball' is the way forward. "Viva la hoof".

excatly.

no more moneyball - instead we are now working at the opposite end of the spectrum

i.e. we bring in journeymen, in their late 20s, for a barrowload of money.
Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: the dude abides on December 20, 2014, 03:13:44 PM
I see Frank De Boer is now linked again with us, these past few days.

or at least his brother has reopened the link (for his sibling)

He has certainly turned things around at Ajax.  After 7 years without the Dutch title, he has led them to four in a row.

On the downside, on the top stage (the  champions league), I think (from memory) he has never led Ajax out of the group stages.   And although he plays a pass and move game, with the focus on ball retention....he is a 4-3-3 man (which has never really worked in England).

But enough about Frank, let's talk about Rafa.


Title: Re: Season 2014/15
Post by: Ed on December 20, 2014, 09:39:27 PM