October 26, 2020, 06:45:59 PM

Author Topic: Season 2012-2013  (Read 405869 times)

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1875 on: February 20, 2013, 01:46:51 PM »
You're becoming very cynical Tes. Yes, I hope too that we can take the form from this game into Thursday. Not having Sturridge is a pain though. Hopefully Couthino is eligible.

I also noticed Tes' increased inclination for cynical remarks. But each to his own an'all. Unfortunately Coutinho won't be eligible for Thursday.
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Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1876 on: February 20, 2013, 03:45:57 PM »
on the contrary, Tes bases his conclusions and  thought processes on objective data analysis.

as opposed to those who base their analysis (if that is what one could call it) on faith and belief - i.e. the worship of idols and false Gods.

not that that covers everyone.  I see some folks jump from one end of the spectrum to the other, in a few hours.  Fruit and nuts.
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Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1877 on: February 20, 2013, 04:54:15 PM »
I also noticed Tes' increased inclination for cynical remarks
Gaffer needs to demonstrate that he can win things.
There's no evidence of that.

The Zenit & Spurs games are the next opportunities to beat
respectable opposition.

See Marx at some point you have to move beyond "oh we play
pretty football now, it's great"
to where's the steel in this side,
the courage and conviction to win football matches and trophies?

Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1878 on: February 20, 2013, 05:03:13 PM »
I also noticed Tes' increased inclination for cynical remarks. But each to his own an'all. Unfortunately Coutinho won't be eligible for Thursday.

Bugger. Still, their tails will be up after Sunday's performance and with the crowd behind them who knows what will happen.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1879 on: February 20, 2013, 05:12:26 PM »
Gaffer needs to demonstrate that he can win things.
There's no evidence of that.

It took Ferguson 4 years before Manure won their first trophy - the FA Cup. Imagine if the Utd board had the mentality of some on this board. he would have been out after a season. Two at the most. Why are so many people so impatient?

I'm pasting part of Chris Bascombe's match report. The rest can be found on the link.

 The statistic underlined the view that Rodgers is creating an exciting, attacking unit. If results matched performances, they would have considerably more points. To assess the potential of this team by number-crunching is dangerous, however. Trotting out favourable or unfavourable statistics has become a sport of its own on Merseyside, usually slanted to support an opinion.

It was pointed out before the game that Liverpool were three points worse off than they were after 26 games last season. This win means they have the same number after 27. They collected 13 points in their last 11 league games a year ago. Shall we update weekly for the rest of the season?

These evaluations establish ­nothing. If you support Rodgers, you see and sense the progression. If you do not, only the return of Rafael Benítez or Kenny Dalglish, or the appointment of the next flavour of the month – who would still get ditched in 12 months’ time for not producing magic – will suffice.


That last para encapsulates the opinions on this board perfectly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9876086/Liverpool-5-Swansea-City-0-match-report.html

I'm reminded of this saying... "There are none so blind as those who will not see".
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1880 on: February 20, 2013, 06:50:00 PM »
It took Ferguson 4 years before Manure won their first trophy - the FA Cup. Imagine if the Utd board had the mentality of some on this board. he would have been out after a season. Two at the most. Why are so many people so impatient?
You're simply and deliberately not comparing like with like there.

Ferguson had a track record of winning trophies prior to his
appointment at United.

Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1881 on: February 20, 2013, 06:56:04 PM »
It took Ferguson 4 years before Manure won their first trophy - the FA Cup. Imagine if the Utd board had the mentality of some on this board. he would have been out after a season. Two at the most. Why are so many people so impatient?



That last para encapsulates the opinions on this board perfectly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9876086/Liverpool-5-Swansea-City-0-match-report.html

I'm reminded of this saying... "There are none so blind as those who will not see".

given Chris Bascoombe's bias, and his role in the dismissal of Benitez, I wouldn't give too much creedence to anything that the lad has to say about football.   It's all gone pear-shaped since Benitez was sacked.

And as for being blind - Ray, you speak of the time it took for Ferguson to turn United around - but you omit to recall that Ferguson had a very strong CV, prior to his appointment to the United job.  He broke up the Rangers/Celtic stranglehold in Scotland.  Indeed, he even conquered Europe, by beating Real Madrid in the Cup Winners Cup.  Amazing CV with little Aberdeen.

Indeed, I often think of Fergie and Rafa's similarities - Fergie broke up the duopoly in Scotland - and Rafa did the same in Spain.  It takes a special manager to overcome such strong opposition.

Sorry to bring up wee things called facts.   :D

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1882 on: February 20, 2013, 07:03:20 PM »
I wouldn't give too much creedence
You playin' that clearwater revival stuff again?  :D

Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1883 on: February 20, 2013, 07:05:03 PM »
See Marx at some point you have to move beyond "oh we play
pretty football now, it's great"
to where's the steel in this side,
the courage and conviction to win football matches and trophies?

I would say it's in the making. I would agree the extreme inconsistency (outplaying ManC like no other team has at their place since the sheik took over, to losing at home  in a very lacklustre style to the Baggies just a few days later) we tend to suffer from is very frustrating although not terribly surprising. At the same time, our high level is arguably second to none. The problem is we need to stay in the zone longer than we presently do. Wins will come as the team and squad mature. Given the mayhem this club's been through the last 5 years it's a big ask to demand it sorted less than 6 months into the season.

People seem to forget that we have more attempts on target than any other team in the league. It may not win you games (evidently), let alone titles but it is, IMHO, a strong indicator we're moving in the right direction - that we're on to something. A year ago we couldn't score to save our lives. Fast forward 12 months and we're the 4th best scoring team in the leage. It's amazing we're trailing City in 2nd place by 14 points despite scoring one better than them while conceding only 10 more.

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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1884 on: February 20, 2013, 07:08:12 PM »
You're simply and deliberately not comparing like with like there.

Ferguson had a track record of winning trophies prior to his
appointment at United.

Competition in Scotland is hardly comparable to England. And let's not forget his Aberdeen side were humbled 4-0 by Liverpool in Nov 1980. And if he had such a good track record why did it take 4 years to get his first trophy? Surely a better manager at the time would have turned things around much quicker.

If it takes a manager with  a 'track record of winning trophies' 4 years to win his next one it shows that a change of club can mean a pause in progress.

This argument that we should only sign a manager with a proven winning record is flawed because all managers start at the bottom in terms of experience and some develop quicker than others. It's not an exact science. Compare Villas Boas at Chelsea and now Spurs. A completely different success rate. He remained the same but the players didn't. So given time Rogers will blend LFC into his style and I'm sure that will bring success. The alternative, as Chris Bascombe alluded to is to bring in someone else and start all over again and in the process will probably lose some key players.

But I guess I've wasted my breath because you're in the dude camp.
Cheers,
Ray



Offline Martinmarx

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1885 on: February 20, 2013, 07:10:51 PM »
given Chris Bascoombe's bias, and his role in the dismissal of Benitez, I wouldn't give too much creedence to anything that the lad has to say about football.   It's all gone pear-shaped since Benitez was sacked.

Yawn, you're not even good at it. Being a revisionist I mean.

Indeed, I often think of Fergie and Rafa's similarities - Fergie broke up the duopoly in Scotland - and Rafa did the same in Spain.  It takes a special manager to overcome such strong opposition.

I would say that's about the only similarity, however abstract and superficial it may be, they have in common. Too bad that similarity didn't extend to repeating success abroad.
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Offline Ageing Stick Insect

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1886 on: February 20, 2013, 07:17:17 PM »
given Chris Bascoombe's bias, and his role in the dismissal of Benitez, I wouldn't give too much creedence to anything that the lad has to say about football.   It's all gone pear-shaped since Benitez was sacked.
His ALLEGED bias. Only by you dude. And no, it started to go pear-shaped long before Rafa left but you're too blind to have seen it.

Quote
And as for being blind - Ray, you speak of the time it took for Ferguson to turn United around - but you omit to recall that Ferguson had a very strong CV, prior to his appointment to the United job.  He broke up the Rangers/Celtic stranglehold in Scotland.  Indeed, he even conquered Europe, by beating Real Madrid in the Cup Winners Cup.  Amazing CV with little Aberdeen.
Little Aberdeen that were thrashed at Anfield 4-0. If he was so good why did it take 4 years at OT to win anything? He was on the verge of being sacked if he didn't win the cup in 90.

Quote
Indeed, I often think of Fergie and Rafa's similarities - Fergie broke up the duopoly in Scotland - and Rafa did the same in Spain.  It takes a special manager to overcome such strong opposition.

Sorry to bring up wee things called facts.   :D

That was the only thing they shared. You can keep moaning all you like about Rogers but he's here for the forseeable future so get used to it. You won't see Rafa back. If you're so keen on him join the Chelsea forum!
Cheers,
Ray



Offline the dude abides

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1887 on: February 20, 2013, 08:08:57 PM »
His ALLEGED bias. Only by you dude. And no, it started to go pear-shaped long before Rafa left but you're too blind to have seen it.
Little Aberdeen that were thrashed at Anfield 4-0. If he was so good why did it take 4 years at OT to win anything? He was on the verge of being sacked if he didn't win the cup in 90.

That was the only thing they shared. You can keep moaning all you like about Rogers but he's here for the forseeable future so get used to it. You won't see Rafa back. If you're so keen on him join the Chelsea forum!

I hear the Pope is out of a job.  Maybe we could put feelers out and see if the oul boy would fancy taking over the Anfield job, come May time.    Like I mean, if empty CVs are all that you need to get the Liverpool job these days, then I might even put my own in.

And like the present boss, when things are not going great, you ask for belief and faith.  Pope would be well suited, because he is big when it comes to the faith business.

In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was, in me, an invincible summer.

There’s no next time. It’s now or never.

Offline Edward224

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1888 on: February 20, 2013, 08:29:07 PM »
It's at times like this how I wish Anfieldroad.com forum had an ignore feature.

Every other forum has one - why not this one!!

Offline Ed

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Re: Season 2012-2013
« Reply #1889 on: February 20, 2013, 09:02:11 PM »
Competition in Scotland is hardly comparable to England.
I think that, once again, demonstrates your wilful ignorance
on the matter a) Ferguson broke the 15 year Celtic/Rangers stranglehold
on the Scottish league and ended a 25 year wait for the title at
Aberdeen. b) of course beating Bayern Munich and Real Madrid in the
final en route to the European Cup Winners cup was a minor achievement.

This argument that we should only sign a manager with a proven winning record is flawed because all managers start at the bottom in terms of experience and some develop quicker than others. It's not an exact science.
I think the point that you miss is likelihood in terms of success at a big club.

But I guess I've wasted my breath because you're in the dude camp.
You're not wasting your time, it's just that your argument is weak. I'm
in camp Ed btw.

I would say it's in the making. I would agree the extreme inconsistency (outplaying ManC like no other team has at their place since the sheik took over, to losing at home  in a very lacklustre style to the Baggies just a few days later)
Yes, the dominance against City for the 20 minute spell in the second
half is a point both for and against your argument i.e. great that we
dominated but not so great that we were unable to turn such dominance
into a result (I also note they were missing their two most influential players)